Unmasking Narcissism Part 2: Navigating and Rising Above Toxic Relationships with Jennifer Passavant
December 13, 2024 • 36 mins
Enjoy the second hand of Shaman Isis's MOST STREAMED episode with guest Jennifer Passavant.
Have you ever found yourself entangled in a relationship that leaves you constantly seeking validation from your partner? If so, you may have encountered a narcissist. In this episode, we go deep into the labyrinth of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), unraveling its complexity and how it affects relationships. We shine a light on the conscious emotional harm inflicted by those with NPD and the co-dependent relationships that ensue, highlighting how true healing begins with oneself.
Get ready to open your eyes to the tactics employed by narcissists to control their victims. We lay bare the charm offensive used to ensnare their unsuspecting partners and the power imbalance that can arise. Learn to recognize the early signs of a narcissistic relationship and equip yourself with the knowledge to protect yourself from further harm. We provide valuable insights on how to safely exit such relationships and regain your emotional sovereignty.
Finally, we delve into the mind of a narcissist, identifying key signs and behaviors like attention-seeking, perfectionism, manipulation, lack of responsibility and empathy, and fears of rejection and abandonment. We stress the importance of setting healthy boundaries rather than assigning blame. We wrap up the episode with practical steps to regain control, suggesting that you seek help if necessary. This episode is a valuable navigation guide through the convolute
Spiritual guru, two-time #1 best-selling author, and higher consciousness advocate Shaman Isis (aka Cynthia L. Elliott) is on a mission to turn the tide of the mental and spiritual health crisis with mindfulness practices, incredible events, powerful content, and motivational storytelling that inspire your heroes journey! Learn more about her books, courses, speaking engagements, book signings, and appearances at ShamanIsis.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
because the Correct is so frightening, yes, well,
and most people assume they'recommunicating with someone who
is typical yeah, you know, whois empathetic and sympathetic in
all of those things, and withsomeone with that type of
personality disorder it's awhole different ball of wax.
(00:20):
And so you have to.
Until you recognize how shouldI say this?
Until you recognize how they'reoperating, you're still going
to assume you're communicatingwith someone who's mentally
typical.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You know, yeah, you're absolutely right.
You don't keep saying toyourself I just have to try
another method, or, you know,I'll sit down and have a
conversation with them, and it'slike it's never going to work
because guess what?
What you don't want to tellyourself.
They are fully aware that theyare hurting you Bingo, and
they're okay with that.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And that's their food .
No, they are okay with it.
That's their whole point.
They get high off of it.
They get high off of it.
That's their drug.
And, like I said earlier,that's their drug where your
drug is the kindness and thevalidation because you didn't
get it.
That's your childhood.
Right you didn't get that as ayeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I, in my situation, I got really frustrated because I
didn't understand.
I think that we touched on thisyesterday.
I kept hearing my stories ofmyself and he didn't even know
half the truth, which, thank God, I didn't actually tell him,
because he just told everybodyand imploded my whole life.
Wow, yeah, and when they'resupposed to, I was ready, but
(01:33):
what he did know he wasconstantly telling other people
I would be talking to somebodythat I didn't even know.
And they go oh, I know.
And I'm like why do you knowsuch personal information about
me?
And I thought it was because hewas admired me so much.
I was just so, I was so cute, Iwas like, oh, you know, I was
(01:54):
like, oh gosh, you really thinkI'm amazing.
All that and bag of chips.
He wants to tell everybody.
He was just, you know,intuitively, something in me was
going.
Why does he keep sharing mystories with everybody?
You know something off here andI you know.
But you want to believe what youwant to believe.
You think people will evolve orchange and this isn't about
(02:16):
maturity.
It goes way beyond that.
It's about self-love and that'sthe thing you have to
understand and if you can havesympathy for somebody that you
almost want to hate, which Ithink for a lot of people who
are listening to this.
If you're in a relationshipwith a narcissist, you either
hate them, or you almost want tohate them, or you love them too
much whatever the type of lovethat is, and it's because you
(02:39):
don't want to accept that theyactually get off hurting you.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, and I think some of that, that denial, comes
also from.
There's a fear, then, of leavingthe relationship, because they
often are afraid, and this isI've, I've.
I work with a lot of victims ofnarcissists and co-dependence,
and many of them are afraid toleave the relationship, even
though they're miserable in it.
(03:03):
So they will make up everyexcuse under the sun to stay,
mostly because not only are theyafraid that they will lose the,
the, the tiny little nuggets ofvalidation that they've got
into the relationship for in thefirst place, they're just
waiting to get one of thoselittle nuggets of reinforcement
(03:24):
because they're afraid theywon't get it anywhere else.
They're, they hate, they're,they feel so badly about
themselves that they fear thatthey won't be able to enter into
another relationship and theywon't find anybody else.
So it's easier for them to stayin that that abusive misery
than then face the fear of, intheir minds, never finding
(03:46):
anyone else who will evervalidate them.
But but where they're not, whatthey're failing to see and this
is one of the things I and wejust touched on that a little
bit earlier what they're failingto see is that only they can
fill that hole.
If you keep looking to get thatvalidation hole filled outside
of you, you will always, onlyever, be disappointed because
(04:08):
you're placing thatresponsibility and that
expectation to heal you outsideof yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And you, just you can't do that.
Which brings us back to thatwhole.
If you're making excuses at allfor the person that you're with
, regardless of whether they'renarcissists or not, then you
probably have a self love issue,self care issue, and until
you're capable of telling peopleand I was always very good at
saying stop, you know, get back,but even I can be tricked by
(04:36):
world class narcissists.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
For me.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I kept thinking that, and this was me thinking this,
is that what was wrong with me?
I kept thinking that I wassmart enough to fix it.
Yes, I can fix this.
I have fixed so many people onthe healer.
I can fix this.
I fix people all the time.
I fix them within minutes,sometimes, you know, by reading
them, feeling them and thengiving them what they need.
(05:01):
You know, do I need to put myhands on?
Do I need to?
You know, what is it?
What magic can I work?
And you can't fix thatbottomless pit.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
No, it is.
It'll end up sucking you dry.
So if you're finding yourself,if you're exhausted in your
relationship, I think that'sthat you want to need to add to
the list Number 12,.
If you're exhausted in yourrelationship, you're most likely
not going to be.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
If you have.
If you're finding yourselfhaving circular conversations
with them, you might be with anarcissist.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Oh, that's a good one .
I like that.
I got to add that to the list,you know what.
You're not going to be likewriting a book.
Oh my God, I know so.
This is an interesting one thatI added to my list over time.
They see threats everywhere,Yep, which I did not understand
for the longest time.
You know that one really threwme off.
It's like I thought you were abadass.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
You know I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I've been around enough narcissist in my career
and in my personal life that Ifeel like a professional.
That's why I know that I'mgoing to be helping people
either who are victims ofnarcissists or who want to stop
being a narcissist.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yes, which is, which is rare.
So when you do find them, it'slike wow, ok, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
One must be a magnet.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
a magnet, well for you though, because most
narcissists don't even want toadmit that they have a problem
or that they are wounded becausethey talk.
They think so highly ofthemselves, or at least
consciously.
They think highly of themselvesbecause subconsciously, they
hate themselves.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
They hate themselves.
Yeah, exactly, they're insecureand they don't want to admit it
that there's a fear there.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, so it's amazing that you get narcissists that
want to change.
That's a freaking miracle asfar as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I say I'm going to.
Oh, I thought you were going tosay that.
I'm like oh my God, that'samazing.
Every night, I have alwaysattracted narcissists, do not?
I mean, I can go to a room with5,000 people and within an hour
I will find myself going.
Oh God, hi, one of you again.
How are you?
Is it blinking?
Yes, I wonder if it's becausethe healer, that healer vibe
(07:10):
that I give off, that makes togo.
Oh, you know, and I think thathappens with people who are
super impasse or psychic.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yes, I agree because I tend to get them, though I've
had a couple of a few clientsthat were narcissistic.
The majority of the time I getthe victims of narcissism or
codependency, but it's in mysocial media DMs that I get the
narcissists.
That's interesting, that'sactually makes a lot of sense
actually, that they just adoreyou.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I've
worked in entertainment andfashion most of my career and
I've worked with a lot ofpowerful people, so I've been in
rooms with people.
It's a matter of proximity.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Oh sure Sure.
Hi, miss Keegan oh yeah, you'reright over here.
And what's funny too is howshall I say this?
Narcissists tend to think thatthey can manipulate anyone, that
they can find theirnarcissistic food and that's
(08:13):
what it's called as narcissisticfood, that they can get their
addiction filled with just aboutanyone.
They usually try to use theopposite sex, though it's easier
for them to manipulate theopposite sex.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And they go like some more.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It agreed, absolutely they do.
And how shall I say this?
I think, because of thatassumption, they approach us
both, whether it's like you weresaying you walk into a room, or
for me it's in my social mediaDMs because I'm really going
anywhere doing anythinginteresting.
(08:50):
So I don't meet you guys tomeet me, but then I can tell
within the first.
I mean it doesn't take long totell it's a narcissist.
At this point we're sowell-schooled when you've been
with narcissists as long as wehave, because my relationship
was six and a half years.
I don't know how long years was, but it was we've got this Long
(09:11):
time.
Yeah, we got this boo boo.
And so once you and this iswhere I want to also speak to
the victim once you learn to seea narcissist for what they are,
you then start to and youunderstand the different types
of manipulation tactics thatthey utilize, you can see it for
(09:34):
what they are, and then thatmeans that you then know what
they're trying to get you tothink, feel, believe about
either them or yourself, yes, orif they want you to feel badly
about yourself but good aboutthem, whatever it is, you'll see
what they're trying to get youto feel, because it's all about
(09:54):
controlling how you feel and howyou think, and all that from
the get go.
But then you can go ah, okay,he or she is trying to get me to
think or feel this way, allright, so then I can respond
this way, which will deflectthat or negate it.
So once you can recognize it,it gives you a lot of control
over the situation which theydon't like.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The reality is something that I had to come to
the understanding of is that,once you understand or realize
that someone is a narcissist,whether it's a client, a family
member, which is very difficultto deal with, you know, because
they have the right to cutfamily members out, yes, you do.
Yep, you do.
You have the right to cutanyone out of your life that is
(10:38):
sucking you dry.
Yes, oh, I completely lost mytrain of thought with that.
Oh, I hate it when I do that.
You know, when you're like, oh,I see something, good, it's
juicy.
And then I was like, bam, justlet me.
Oh, yeah, everything that comesout of their mouth is most
likely manipulated, correct.
That's what I found.
(10:59):
I found myself likeeverything's like okay, okay,
I'm dodging the bullets.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Right, bob and weave.
Bob and weave, absolutely Boband weave.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Bob and weave, bob and weave.
So the next one is how theyfeel is all that matters?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Correct and we use the term feeling loosely.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah.
It's more about their ego, asyou know how much something's
affecting their ego.
That's what they say they'refeeling.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Bingo.
That's exactly right, yes.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, so I would encourage anybody If you were on
the list of signs they like tosplit, which is, they are the
good and you are the bad.
Do you have any examples ofthat kind of thing, spotting
that kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh, absolutely Particularly.
When you are how should I saythis deflecting or negating with
a narcissist, then they have tomake you the bad guy and you're
at fault for whatever it isthey're experiencing that they
don't like.
Usually, it's because they'renot getting what they want from
(12:13):
you and that pisses them off.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yes.
So then you have to get realstupid shallow things where.
I'm like are you reallybitching because the grocery
store was out of something?
Yeah, yelling at your wifebecause the grocery store was
out of something.
And you're yelling at her fornot taking all eight kids in the
(12:35):
car that was running out of gasto three more stores to get you
that thing that you absolutelyhave decided is so important.
You're gonna ruin your day andyour whole family's experience
over it.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, and it can't be their fault, and it can't even
be nobody's fault.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, you know, that is really hard, I think, for a
lot of people who are.
If you're in and if you suspectyou're in a narcissist, you're
in a relationship and you'resitting there going, yeah, if it
makes no sense, because they'reupset about something that
makes no sense and they wannablame someone, even though it's
a blameless situation andthere's no one you can blame,
which I think is good at.
And we talk about the UnitedStates, but one of the big
(13:14):
problems is that our country isa narcissist.
We in the whole country,everything is restructured.
It's like a one-way narcissist.
Yeah, everybody in this countryis in a sick relationship with
a narcissist and that narcissistis America.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And in our shores most other people are like you
guys are a hot mess, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
As in the country as in the country I can I add to
that, though?
Or let me just or I guess Ijust wanna finish what I was
saying about.
You know, usually it's whenthey're in my DMs and they're
expecting me to either fall inover them and that agree to
enter into some sort ofemotional dependency on them,
(13:53):
because that's what they'relooking for.
They want someone who will beemotionally dependent on them
for validation.
And when they're not gettingthe control over me that they
want, that's when they turn uglyand that's when you're the bad
guy, you're the problem and youneed to feel guilty for it,
(14:13):
which also doesn't work, butthey try.
That's where they go next.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, and I think that's something that's worth
mentioning.
You brought something up that Iwas just talking about.
This was a friend last nighttrying to explain it's hard for
people to understand why peopledo things in relationships, but
sometimes if you do notunderstand that somebody's in a
relationship with a narcissist,you will not understand why they
chose certain things, becausethey had to choose them so
oftentimes they're on next.
(14:38):
So if you're looking to enterrelationship with a narcissist,
I'm not providing you with anexcuse here, because I know that
we'll all find lots of excusesto say an unhealthy relationship
, but you have to be wise.
I made the really stupidmistake of giving someone a
year's notice.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, but I was trying to be fair in a very
unusual situation and I thoughtby doing that, I was giving them
the excuse to go out and getvalidation elsewhere.
Yes, and then let us handlethings like adults.
I was trying to be reasonable.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, that's you.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
being a normal person is why you're saying yeah, I
was being what I thought wasnormal and instead that was an
invitation to incinerate mywhole life.
Yeah, I mean, just came afterme to the nail, got to everyone
who had ever known me and why doI have this experience for my
(15:38):
lifetime of people wanting to bein my life, who want to make
shit up about?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
me why.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Why?
Why does that happen?
So if you're ever curious aboutme, please ask me.
Because I have a history ofpeople making shit up about me
because they're mad at me fornot wanting to be in a
relationship with them, and I'mtalking about everything from
family to Well.
I think a lot of us have thatand we don't understand, like
why is someone trying to plug?
my whole world, yeah, but I gavethat opportunity by being
(16:06):
honest and thinking that theywere a normal person.
So my advice to people is ifyou're, if you're realizing this
and if this is just confirmingwhat you already know, you want
to make sure that you do that.
You Speak your truth, you standstrong and you do this if
you're exiting or deciding toexit, dude in a really smart way
.
It protects your finances.
That protects your reputationas best you can.
(16:27):
But I'll just say for my ownpersonal advice Decades of
experience seeing nurses justhelping people get over it and
so on it's not worth look, yourheart and soul being sucked dry.
No, not even if they, even ifthey implode your you know it's
not worth it because that thepeople in your world are going
to judge you over things theydon't know and believe someone,
(16:49):
not, not the person themselves.
They're not worth having inyour life anyway.
Agreed absolutely Wait can I addjust a little bit?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
and and with regard to and this is speaking to to
the victim Not only prepare your, your finances, because
absolutely you have to be ableto find a way to be in all ways
independent and uncontrollable,but that, then, that also
includes emotionally, becauseyou then have to really look at
(17:19):
your addiction to theirvalidation, because until you
are how should I say thisemotionally sovereign enough to
where you can give that, thatvalidation to yourself, where
you, you understand that youdetermine your own worth and
your own value, you do that.
(17:39):
You have a choice to give thatpower away to others, but that's
not an obligation.
You can fill that, own, that,that hole and that wound
yourself.
You decide that you are, youhave value because you can exist
right.
That's all it takes to havevalue right.
So when you can learn to let goof the addiction to the
(17:59):
validation because that's reallythe hardest thing to let go of
is that addiction to thevalidation you have to then be
be ready to Cut them outentirely.
You have to pick it, pick atime, pick a day, and and get
out and block them in every Wayyou can, because they will come
(18:20):
after you.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Oh yes, and they will here.
They will most likely Turn tosome eight daily.
They're already have somethinglined up which is very typical
of a narcissist.
Or they will turn to someonevery quickly to hurt you,
because that's how they get off.
Um then how they makethemselves feel better.
You want to.
You want to leave as safely aspossible and know that you have
(18:42):
to be independent and selffunctioning.
I love that.
That's wonderful advice and sowell said.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
So let's what.
We're running the list reallyquick and let me know if you
have any more thoughts on any ofthese because, okay, I think
this is such a fantastic effort,though we're gonna need to
break this up into a couple ofsegments.
I think we're gonna get somegood feedback on that.
So the list of signs that youcan look for if you're in a
relationship or if you'reactually.
You know what I'm gonna tilt to, not just the people who might
(19:10):
be in a relationship with thenarcissist, but if you suspect
that there's something wrongwith you and you know deep down
you're unhappy, but you may beon the surface look like
everything's all a bag of chips,but you know you might need
change in your life and yoususpect that you're a narcissist
.
This is a list for you becauseyou know what.
We're all human, we all havepsychological issues.
We all have growth that needsto happen.
(19:33):
Self-love is important, nomatter what whether you're on
which end of the relationshipyou are.
So if any of these soundfamiliar, you might want to, you
know, seek a life coach orsomeone to help you deal with
the fact that you might be anarcissist or the fact that
you're in a relationship with anarcissist so that you can live
a happy life and beingself-fulfilled and Independent,
(19:55):
sovereign being is everythingyou can handle anything in life
if you love yourself.
So the signs that we'vereviewed today Are and, jennifer
, please hop in here if you haveany new thoughts on this Uh,
superiority and entitlement,which stems from not having any
confidence deep down, which isvery hard to spot in the
beginning.
Uh, number two is attentionseeking behavior, validation
(20:20):
seeking, uh, which is one of thereasons why your partner luck
this is what I see consistentlywith narcissists is, um, they
happen to have, they need tohave a lot of men or women, or I
hate to make it about sex.
Is it because it doesn't reallymatter, which is something I
had to realize growing up?
I'm like why doesn't it matterif it's a man or a woman, it's
just attention, no matter what.
Absolutely um, attentionseeking uh.
(20:43):
Uh, behavior, they'll.
They'll seek it from anybody.
Um Um.
Number three on the list is thatperfectionism that uh Stems
from, not from being so afraid.
It's being seen as being flawed, because deep down, they
believe they're truly flawed,that they have to do everything
perfectly and they have tomanage you and your life because
(21:03):
you're an extension inreflection of their life.
Yeah, um, yeah, so thatperfectionism rolls over to your
children, to you as the partner, to their job, to everything.
You need to try to control thelanguage, the description of
your life, and you knoweverybody thinks around them,
absolutely, uh, number fourcontrol, manipulation.
(21:23):
Like I was just saying, theytry to control and manipulate
everything around them to to,because what other people think
is very, very important, it'simportant to all of us.
It's really, really overlyimportant to a narcissist or to
you, if you're a narcissist, um,lacks.
They have a lack ofresponsibility, a lack of
boundaries.
So if you're in a relationshipwith somebody and you're like,
why?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
do they not?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
keep trying to explain this to them.
Why do they not understand whyI don't want them calling my
friends and trying to getpersonal information about me?
You know they keep sayingthey're trying to help me.
Um, you know I go.
They have no boundaries becausethey don't want to have
boundaries, because finding outabout you is how they manipulate
you.
Yeah um and a lack of empathy,which I think is.
You know what we're talkingabout.
(22:05):
You know Narcissism and empathyare the two sides of the human
um psyche.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I think extremes are ego and extremes are and our
wounds and extremes are like ourthe opposite of the exact same
wound.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh, that.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, um, they see threats everywhere.
You know there's constantly apotential threat to their,
whatever it is.
Um, how they feel is everythingand that's, that's just wording
, because they don't.
Most people who arenarcissistic Don't have
necessarily real feelings likeyou would actually see them.
And if, if you suspect thatyour feelings aren't actually
(22:43):
really feelings because there'syour true superficial, then you
might actually be, you know, anarcissist.
I might need to seek help.
So splitting, uh, they're goodand other people are bad.
Every story they tell they'rethe hero of which is actually,
you know, that's actually true.
And then a fear of rejection orridicule, which actually we
(23:06):
didn't live with.
That one was left off the list.
Fear of rejection or ridicule.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Absolutely yes, and I would also add a fear of well,
this is more with thecodependent, but a fear of
abandonment and a fear of younot needing them.
But, yes, absolutely a fear ofrejection and ridicule and it's
oh God, it's so deeply rootedand that's why they again, they
(23:32):
have to look and feel and makeyou look and feel well.
Publicly you have to look andpresent as perfection, but
behind closed doors they'retearing you down every which way
because of your imperfections.
You know they use your woundsand your flaws, which everybody
(23:54):
has, but they use that toemotionally manipulate you.
But then when you're out inpublic, y'all better be in a
happy, fricking family orwhatever the situation is.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, and they're very concerned with what other
people think in that regard.
That's why they have to haveeveryone look a certain way,
talk a certain way, like they'remanaging everything.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, exactly, it's very much about how they present
and how other people perceivethem, including their partners
and their children.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, yeah, 100%, that's actually, yeah, that's so
true.
So that is.
I love this information, ifyour assistance suggestions.
Before we go and close out ouramazing episode on signs of a
narcissist, what are somerecommendations that you would
make for somebody who willappeal to both, because I think
(24:48):
you pointed out something that'svery important.
It's very easy to bash andthat's going on everywhere.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I'm not really bashing narcissists and I don't
think that's going to helpanybody.
So if you're a narcissist, orif you're in a relationship with
a narcissist and you'rerealizing it, having looked into
this episode, here are someoptions for you and how to move
forward.
Yep, are you having anysuggestions for that?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I do, and I appreciate you reiterating that.
This is not about bashingpeople who have either severe
narcissistic tendencies or havenarcissistic person or disorder,
many of whom go undiagnosed,but it's definitely about
recognizing them so that you canput up healthy boundaries.
(25:36):
So that's really why we'rehaving this conversation.
So I know we discussed earlierhaving financial control and
making sure that you're notallowing them to have control
over aspects of your life thatwere something to go south, you
can't get out.
So be very mindful of that andfind ways to regain that if
(25:57):
you've lost it, even if thatmeans like you have to open a
joint account with anotherfamily member and start
scrolling money away withanother family member that's in
their account or whatever it is.
But just definitely find waysto be in control of your
finances and your livingsituation.
And I would also then recommendlearning ways to how should I
(26:22):
say this?
Learn all the differentmanipulation techniques so that
you can see it when it happens.
You can go, ah, that'sgaslighting, ah, that's whatever
it is, and then learn how todeflect it or negate it, because
then they don't have power overyou, because most of the time
you get the victim gets so intotheir emotional triggers because
(26:44):
they're now invalidated andthey feel hurt and they're
trying to then, yeah, but blah,blah, blah, blah and they try to
convince the narcissist thatthey're not who they're being
told that they are.
They get so into their triggerthat then they're just digging
themselves in the hole becauseyou're doing exactly what the
narcissist wants you to do.
(27:04):
They want you to feel like shitand they want you to try to
convince them otherwise so thatthey can then turn around and
convince you how wrong you are.
So when you can see it for whatit is and you know how to
negate it, you don't get intothat cyclical conversation of
trying to get them to changetheir minds.
You just deflect it and negateit.
(27:24):
And half the time it's aboutcalling it for what it is like.
Oh, you're trying to gaslight me.
I get it.
Go ahead, give it a shot.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know what?
When I'm gonna add to the list,do they like to gaslight?
Because they are our system's,our world class.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Pro gaslighters and not to say that's probably their
top manipulation tactic, butit's by no means the only.
So I really recommend peoplelearn the different types of
manipulation tactics and you'llread through the descriptions
and go, oh, holy cow, wow, I'veseen all of these.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Oh, I think you just hit on the next episode that you
and I are gonna do together.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
No manipulation tactics.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yes, okay, I think that's something.
Okay, I love that idea.
I think it works.
This was I just feel this isgoing to be helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I can perfectly I hope so, I really hope so.
But, yes, any more of youramazing suggestions for what to
do, honestly, aside from I meanI think we touched on a lot of
them the learning, themanipulation techniques, and
then how to negate them, todisempower them, but also to
have the financial control, butthen also the emotional control,
(28:32):
because they keep you around bycontrolling how you feel.
So you have to really learn torecognize that, as you said,
everything they say essentiallyis a way to control how you
think, feel and perceive andbelieve about either you or them
.
So when you recognize that itallows you to keep yourself in
(28:54):
check and become very self-awareof when you are allowing them
to control how you feel aboutyourself and when you can go ooh
, he just said that and I tookit immediately.
Personally, I felt awful aboutit, but that's me giving my
power away.
I just gave him that control.
So I'm gonna take that.
I'm not gonna let that happen.
I recognize that that's anintentional behavior on his part
(29:16):
or her part, of whoever it is.
You're dealing with myexperience as a female.
I'm thinking back to my ownexperience.
So, but once you're veryself-aware of that, then you can
regain control and make yourown choice, because we all
believe it or not.
We all choose how we think,feel, believe, perceive, all of
(29:38):
that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
We create our own reality.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It is Exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And every thought you have, every word you say,
everything you allow to pass,everything you put up with
Speaks to how you believe aboutyourself, which speaks to your
reality.
You create your reality.
You really do.
You guys are so powerful.
You know nothing.
That's one of my you know and Iknow they beat up America a bit
but one of my frustrations forthe powers that they've taken
(30:04):
away.
By the way we've structured allof our systems.
Yes everybody into standing inline because you want everyone
to behave the same, becausethat's how we control everybody.
Yeah, in fact, we're incrediblypowerful beings and we are
capable of creating our ownreality on levels that would
would blow, you know, our minds20 years ago, and people are
(30:26):
finally coming awake to that,and I think that's an amazing
thing.
I think a lot of people arecoming awake to this kind of
thing and about being unhappyand choosing to Take control of
their life.
So I think a lot of people whoare choosing to listen to this
episode are To be congratulated,because that this is their sign
that you're trying to takecontrol and Um and change your
(30:49):
life so that you can be happier.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Absolutely, because you either and and for those of
you going, I don't control whenyou know someone hurts my
feelings, I don't control how Ifeel about that you do.
But let me be clear there's adifference between, um A
conscious choice and anunconscious choice, right?
So you can either be veryself-aware and consciously
choose your response, or you canoperate from your triggered,
(31:16):
subconscious, wounded mind andreact right, which means you're
operating out of an old woundthat you've had forever.
It's still a choice, Though itmay be an unconscious one.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, so the the the.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
The thing is to learn to.
Then, even if you've alreadyoperated from the unconscious
one, if, once you becomeself-aware of it, you can make a
new choice.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, you can stop something midstream.
You don't have to finish offthe conversation from that old
yes, stop and go.
No, wait, wait, you know what?
We're not going to do this.
I'm not going to behave thisway Because no one has the power
to make you feel the way thatyou feel exactly, unless you
allow it, and this is so slighttangent, but not really so.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
What?
When I help people who workwith um, negative and lower and
energies and entities as anenergy healer, one of the
prayers that I teach them is I'man all-powerful being of divine
white light.
No one and nothing has powerover me, save that which I allow
.
You have no power over me.
(32:24):
I'm a sovereign being of God,and so it's acknowledging that
if you're allowing someone tocontrol you emotionally, it's a
choice you've made.
Consciously or unconsciouslyit's a choice you've made.
Absolutely you can make a newchoice.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So, so, wow, we did.
This has been such a juicy,juicy episode I'm gonna have to
break it.
It's gonna be, you guys, it'sgonna be like two parts.
So if you didn't hear the firstpart or what up, check, check
my listings and you'll see howmany parts this is.
Um, we've been talking aboutthe signs of a narcissist and
have had such a blast to never.
(33:03):
Thank you Like wise.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
But no, thank you.
I I love talking with you.
I think we could come up with awhole litany.
Oh, it's not big.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I can never see this is gonna take down a life of its
own.
Yeah, I agree, the energy isjust incredible.
And you know, life is so shortand I really believe that when
you something feels right, youjust do it, you just go, we're
gonna have a ball and you guysare gonna totally benefit.
Uh, so you'll hear more aboutthat later.
(33:31):
Please check the listings forum part one or part two or part
three I'm not sure how manyparts it's gonna be, but you'll
see it in the listings.
And, jennifer, thank you somuch.
Have a gorgeous, gorgeous week.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, and justonce again, um, if anybody wants
to to learn more about me, theycan go to my website, which is
wwwangelenergyhealingnet, andfrom there they can also access
my my social media accounts ifthey're interested in, um, uh,
following me there, but Littleself-promotions.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
You're all future social medias here as well.
Oh, persons perfect and you guys, please, please, like, share
and comment on this episode.
We're growing the show.
Our goal is to teachconsciousness, spirituality,
healing to as many people aspossible, so please support our
efforts with your own socialmedia platforms.
And Check out other episodes ofintention with shaman ices by
(34:26):
visiting youtube, spotify, buzz,sprout and apple podcasts.
You'll find it listed in all ofthe major podcast places, um,
and you can please visit mywebsite, shamanisiscom.
I help people heal upon theirlife purpose and get into my
body and soul harmony, and youcan learn more about that at
shaman Isiscom.
Anyway, have a beautiful dayand dinner for us.
(34:47):
We'll see you soon, absolutely.
Thank you again so much.
You're so welcome.
Thank you Bye.
because the Correct is so frightening, yes, well,
and most people assume they'recommunicating with someone who
is typical yeah, you know, whois empathetic and sympathetic in
all of those things, and withsomeone with that type of
personality disorder it's awhole different ball of wax.
(00:20):
And so you have to.
Until you recognize how shouldI say this?
Until you recognize how they'reoperating, you're still going
to assume you're communicatingwith someone who's mentally
typical.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You know, yeah, you're absolutely right.
You don't keep saying toyourself I just have to try
another method, or, you know,I'll sit down and have a
conversation with them, and it'slike it's never going to work
because guess what?
What you don't want to tellyourself.
They are fully aware that theyare hurting you Bingo, and
they're okay with that.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And that's their food .
No, they are okay with it.
That's their whole point.
They get high off of it.
They get high off of it.
That's their drug.
And, like I said earlier,that's their drug where your
drug is the kindness and thevalidation because you didn't
get it.
That's your childhood.
Right you didn't get that as ayeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I, in my situation, I got really frustrated because I
didn't understand.
I think that we touched on thisyesterday.
I kept hearing my stories ofmyself and he didn't even know
half the truth, which, thank God, I didn't actually tell him,
because he just told everybodyand imploded my whole life.
Wow, yeah, and when they'resupposed to, I was ready, but
(01:33):
what he did know he wasconstantly telling other people
I would be talking to somebodythat I didn't even know.
And they go oh, I know.
And I'm like why do you knowsuch personal information about
me?
And I thought it was because hewas admired me so much.
I was just so, I was so cute, Iwas like, oh, you know, I was
(01:54):
like, oh gosh, you really thinkI'm amazing.
All that and bag of chips.
He wants to tell everybody.
He was just, you know,intuitively, something in me was
going.
Why does he keep sharing mystories with everybody?
You know something off here andI you know.
But you want to believe what youwant to believe.
You think people will evolve orchange and this isn't about
(02:16):
maturity.
It goes way beyond that.
It's about self-love and that'sthe thing you have to
understand and if you can havesympathy for somebody that you
almost want to hate, which Ithink for a lot of people who
are listening to this.
If you're in a relationshipwith a narcissist, you either
hate them, or you almost want tohate them, or you love them too
much whatever the type of lovethat is, and it's because you
(02:39):
don't want to accept that theyactually get off hurting you.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, and I think some of that, that denial, comes
also from.
There's a fear, then, of leavingthe relationship, because they
often are afraid, and this isI've, I've.
I work with a lot of victims ofnarcissists and co-dependence,
and many of them are afraid toleave the relationship, even
though they're miserable in it.
(03:03):
So they will make up everyexcuse under the sun to stay,
mostly because not only are theyafraid that they will lose the,
the, the tiny little nuggets ofvalidation that they've got
into the relationship for in thefirst place, they're just
waiting to get one of thoselittle nuggets of reinforcement
(03:24):
because they're afraid theywon't get it anywhere else.
They're, they hate, they're,they feel so badly about
themselves that they fear thatthey won't be able to enter into
another relationship and theywon't find anybody else.
So it's easier for them to stayin that that abusive misery
than then face the fear of, intheir minds, never finding
(03:46):
anyone else who will evervalidate them.
But but where they're not, whatthey're failing to see and this
is one of the things I and wejust touched on that a little
bit earlier what they're failingto see is that only they can
fill that hole.
If you keep looking to get thatvalidation hole filled outside
of you, you will always, onlyever, be disappointed because
(04:08):
you're placing thatresponsibility and that
expectation to heal you outsideof yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And you, just you can't do that.
Which brings us back to thatwhole.
If you're making excuses at allfor the person that you're with
, regardless of whether they'renarcissists or not, then you
probably have a self love issue,self care issue, and until
you're capable of telling peopleand I was always very good at
saying stop, you know, get back,but even I can be tricked by
(04:36):
world class narcissists.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
For me.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I kept thinking that, and this was me thinking this,
is that what was wrong with me?
I kept thinking that I wassmart enough to fix it.
Yes, I can fix this.
I have fixed so many people onthe healer.
I can fix this.
I fix people all the time.
I fix them within minutes,sometimes, you know, by reading
them, feeling them and thengiving them what they need.
(05:01):
You know, do I need to put myhands on?
Do I need to?
You know, what is it?
What magic can I work?
And you can't fix thatbottomless pit.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
No, it is.
It'll end up sucking you dry.
So if you're finding yourself,if you're exhausted in your
relationship, I think that'sthat you want to need to add to
the list Number 12,.
If you're exhausted in yourrelationship, you're most likely
not going to be.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
If you have.
If you're finding yourselfhaving circular conversations
with them, you might be with anarcissist.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Oh, that's a good one .
I like that.
I got to add that to the list,you know what.
You're not going to be likewriting a book.
Oh my God, I know so.
This is an interesting one thatI added to my list over time.
They see threats everywhere,Yep, which I did not understand
for the longest time.
You know that one really threwme off.
It's like I thought you were abadass.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
You know I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I've been around enough narcissist in my career
and in my personal life that Ifeel like a professional.
That's why I know that I'mgoing to be helping people
either who are victims ofnarcissists or who want to stop
being a narcissist.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yes, which is, which is rare.
So when you do find them, it'slike wow, ok, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
One must be a magnet.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
a magnet, well for you though, because most
narcissists don't even want toadmit that they have a problem
or that they are wounded becausethey talk.
They think so highly ofthemselves, or at least
consciously.
They think highly of themselvesbecause subconsciously, they
hate themselves.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
They hate themselves.
Yeah, exactly, they're insecureand they don't want to admit it
that there's a fear there.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, so it's amazing that you get narcissists that
want to change.
That's a freaking miracle asfar as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I say I'm going to.
Oh, I thought you were going tosay that.
I'm like oh my God, that'samazing.
Every night, I have alwaysattracted narcissists, do not?
I mean, I can go to a room with5,000 people and within an hour
I will find myself going.
Oh God, hi, one of you again.
How are you?
Is it blinking?
Yes, I wonder if it's becausethe healer, that healer vibe
(07:10):
that I give off, that makes togo.
Oh, you know, and I think thathappens with people who are
super impasse or psychic.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yes, I agree because I tend to get them, though I've
had a couple of a few clientsthat were narcissistic.
The majority of the time I getthe victims of narcissism or
codependency, but it's in mysocial media DMs that I get the
narcissists.
That's interesting, that'sactually makes a lot of sense
actually, that they just adoreyou.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I've
worked in entertainment andfashion most of my career and
I've worked with a lot ofpowerful people, so I've been in
rooms with people.
It's a matter of proximity.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Oh sure Sure.
Hi, miss Keegan oh yeah, you'reright over here.
And what's funny too is howshall I say this?
Narcissists tend to think thatthey can manipulate anyone, that
they can find theirnarcissistic food and that's
(08:13):
what it's called as narcissisticfood, that they can get their
addiction filled with just aboutanyone.
They usually try to use theopposite sex, though it's easier
for them to manipulate theopposite sex.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And they go like some more.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It agreed, absolutely they do.
And how shall I say this?
I think, because of thatassumption, they approach us
both, whether it's like you weresaying you walk into a room, or
for me it's in my social mediaDMs because I'm really going
anywhere doing anythinginteresting.
(08:50):
So I don't meet you guys tomeet me, but then I can tell
within the first.
I mean it doesn't take long totell it's a narcissist.
At this point we're sowell-schooled when you've been
with narcissists as long as wehave, because my relationship
was six and a half years.
I don't know how long years was, but it was we've got this Long
(09:11):
time.
Yeah, we got this boo boo.
And so once you and this iswhere I want to also speak to
the victim once you learn to seea narcissist for what they are,
you then start to and youunderstand the different types
of manipulation tactics thatthey utilize, you can see it for
(09:34):
what they are, and then thatmeans that you then know what
they're trying to get you tothink, feel, believe about
either them or yourself, yes, orif they want you to feel badly
about yourself but good aboutthem, whatever it is, you'll see
what they're trying to get youto feel, because it's all about
(09:54):
controlling how you feel and howyou think, and all that from
the get go.
But then you can go ah, okay,he or she is trying to get me to
think or feel this way, allright, so then I can respond
this way, which will deflectthat or negate it.
So once you can recognize it,it gives you a lot of control
over the situation which theydon't like.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The reality is something that I had to come to
the understanding of is that,once you understand or realize
that someone is a narcissist,whether it's a client, a family
member, which is very difficultto deal with, you know, because
they have the right to cutfamily members out, yes, you do.
Yep, you do.
You have the right to cutanyone out of your life that is
(10:38):
sucking you dry.
Yes, oh, I completely lost mytrain of thought with that.
Oh, I hate it when I do that.
You know, when you're like, oh,I see something, good, it's
juicy.
And then I was like, bam, justlet me.
Oh, yeah, everything that comesout of their mouth is most
likely manipulated, correct.
That's what I found.
(10:59):
I found myself likeeverything's like okay, okay,
I'm dodging the bullets.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Right, bob and weave.
Bob and weave, absolutely Boband weave.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Bob and weave, bob and weave.
So the next one is how theyfeel is all that matters?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Correct and we use the term feeling loosely.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah.
It's more about their ego, asyou know how much something's
affecting their ego.
That's what they say they'refeeling.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Bingo.
That's exactly right, yes.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, so I would encourage anybody If you were on
the list of signs they like tosplit, which is, they are the
good and you are the bad.
Do you have any examples ofthat kind of thing, spotting
that kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh, absolutely Particularly.
When you are how should I saythis deflecting or negating with
a narcissist, then they have tomake you the bad guy and you're
at fault for whatever it isthey're experiencing that they
don't like.
Usually, it's because they'renot getting what they want from
(12:13):
you and that pisses them off.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yes.
So then you have to get realstupid shallow things where.
I'm like are you reallybitching because the grocery
store was out of something?
Yeah, yelling at your wifebecause the grocery store was
out of something.
And you're yelling at her fornot taking all eight kids in the
(12:35):
car that was running out of gasto three more stores to get you
that thing that you absolutelyhave decided is so important.
You're gonna ruin your day andyour whole family's experience
over it.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, and it can't be their fault, and it can't even
be nobody's fault.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, you know, that is really hard, I think, for a
lot of people who are.
If you're in and if you suspectyou're in a narcissist, you're
in a relationship and you'resitting there going, yeah, if it
makes no sense, because they'reupset about something that
makes no sense and they wannablame someone, even though it's
a blameless situation andthere's no one you can blame,
which I think is good at.
And we talk about the UnitedStates, but one of the big
(13:14):
problems is that our country isa narcissist.
We in the whole country,everything is restructured.
It's like a one-way narcissist.
Yeah, everybody in this countryis in a sick relationship with
a narcissist and that narcissistis America.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And in our shores most other people are like you
guys are a hot mess, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
As in the country as in the country I can I add to
that, though?
Or let me just or I guess Ijust wanna finish what I was
saying about.
You know, usually it's whenthey're in my DMs and they're
expecting me to either fall inover them and that agree to
enter into some sort ofemotional dependency on them,
(13:53):
because that's what they'relooking for.
They want someone who will beemotionally dependent on them
for validation.
And when they're not gettingthe control over me that they
want, that's when they turn uglyand that's when you're the bad
guy, you're the problem and youneed to feel guilty for it,
(14:13):
which also doesn't work, butthey try.
That's where they go next.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, and I think that's something that's worth
mentioning.
You brought something up that Iwas just talking about.
This was a friend last nighttrying to explain it's hard for
people to understand why peopledo things in relationships, but
sometimes if you do notunderstand that somebody's in a
relationship with a narcissist,you will not understand why they
chose certain things, becausethey had to choose them so
oftentimes they're on next.
(14:38):
So if you're looking to enterrelationship with a narcissist,
I'm not providing you with anexcuse here, because I know that
we'll all find lots of excusesto say an unhealthy relationship
, but you have to be wise.
I made the really stupidmistake of giving someone a
year's notice.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, but I was trying to be fair in a very
unusual situation and I thoughtby doing that, I was giving them
the excuse to go out and getvalidation elsewhere.
Yes, and then let us handlethings like adults.
I was trying to be reasonable.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, that's you.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
being a normal person is why you're saying yeah, I
was being what I thought wasnormal and instead that was an
invitation to incinerate mywhole life.
Yeah, I mean, just came afterme to the nail, got to everyone
who had ever known me and why doI have this experience for my
(15:38):
lifetime of people wanting to bein my life, who want to make
shit up about?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
me why.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Why?
Why does that happen?
So if you're ever curious aboutme, please ask me.
Because I have a history ofpeople making shit up about me
because they're mad at me fornot wanting to be in a
relationship with them, and I'mtalking about everything from
family to Well.
I think a lot of us have thatand we don't understand, like
why is someone trying to plug?
my whole world, yeah, but I gavethat opportunity by being
(16:06):
honest and thinking that theywere a normal person.
So my advice to people is ifyou're, if you're realizing this
and if this is just confirmingwhat you already know, you want
to make sure that you do that.
You Speak your truth, you standstrong and you do this if
you're exiting or deciding toexit, dude in a really smart way
.
It protects your finances.
That protects your reputationas best you can.
(16:27):
But I'll just say for my ownpersonal advice Decades of
experience seeing nurses justhelping people get over it and
so on it's not worth look, yourheart and soul being sucked dry.
No, not even if they, even ifthey implode your you know it's
not worth it because that thepeople in your world are going
to judge you over things theydon't know and believe someone,
(16:49):
not, not the person themselves.
They're not worth having inyour life anyway.
Agreed absolutely Wait can I addjust a little bit?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
and and with regard to and this is speaking to to
the victim Not only prepare your, your finances, because
absolutely you have to be ableto find a way to be in all ways
independent and uncontrollable,but that, then, that also
includes emotionally, becauseyou then have to really look at
(17:19):
your addiction to theirvalidation, because until you
are how should I say thisemotionally sovereign enough to
where you can give that, thatvalidation to yourself, where
you, you understand that youdetermine your own worth and
your own value, you do that.
(17:39):
You have a choice to give thatpower away to others, but that's
not an obligation.
You can fill that, own, that,that hole and that wound
yourself.
You decide that you are, youhave value because you can exist
right.
That's all it takes to havevalue right.
So when you can learn to let goof the addiction to the
(17:59):
validation because that's reallythe hardest thing to let go of
is that addiction to thevalidation you have to then be
be ready to Cut them outentirely.
You have to pick it, pick atime, pick a day, and and get
out and block them in every Wayyou can, because they will come
(18:20):
after you.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Oh yes, and they will here.
They will most likely Turn tosome eight daily.
They're already have somethinglined up which is very typical
of a narcissist.
Or they will turn to someonevery quickly to hurt you,
because that's how they get off.
Um then how they makethemselves feel better.
You want to.
You want to leave as safely aspossible and know that you have
(18:42):
to be independent and selffunctioning.
I love that.
That's wonderful advice and sowell said.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
So let's what.
We're running the list reallyquick and let me know if you
have any more thoughts on any ofthese because, okay, I think
this is such a fantastic effort,though we're gonna need to
break this up into a couple ofsegments.
I think we're gonna get somegood feedback on that.
So the list of signs that youcan look for if you're in a
relationship or if you'reactually.
You know what I'm gonna tilt to, not just the people who might
(19:10):
be in a relationship with thenarcissist, but if you suspect
that there's something wrongwith you and you know deep down
you're unhappy, but you may beon the surface look like
everything's all a bag of chips,but you know you might need
change in your life and yoususpect that you're a narcissist
.
This is a list for you becauseyou know what.
We're all human, we all havepsychological issues.
We all have growth that needsto happen.
(19:33):
Self-love is important, nomatter what whether you're on
which end of the relationshipyou are.
So if any of these soundfamiliar, you might want to, you
know, seek a life coach orsomeone to help you deal with
the fact that you might be anarcissist or the fact that
you're in a relationship with anarcissist so that you can live
a happy life and beingself-fulfilled and Independent,
(19:55):
sovereign being is everythingyou can handle anything in life
if you love yourself.
So the signs that we'vereviewed today Are and, jennifer
, please hop in here if you haveany new thoughts on this Uh,
superiority and entitlement,which stems from not having any
confidence deep down, which isvery hard to spot in the
beginning.
Uh, number two is attentionseeking behavior, validation
(20:20):
seeking, uh, which is one of thereasons why your partner luck
this is what I see consistentlywith narcissists is, um, they
happen to have, they need tohave a lot of men or women, or I
hate to make it about sex.
Is it because it doesn't reallymatter, which is something I
had to realize growing up?
I'm like why doesn't it matterif it's a man or a woman, it's
just attention, no matter what.
Absolutely um, attentionseeking uh.
(20:43):
Uh, behavior, they'll.
They'll seek it from anybody.
Um Um.
Number three on the list is thatperfectionism that uh Stems
from, not from being so afraid.
It's being seen as being flawed, because deep down, they
believe they're truly flawed,that they have to do everything
perfectly and they have tomanage you and your life because
(21:03):
you're an extension inreflection of their life.
Yeah, um, yeah, so thatperfectionism rolls over to your
children, to you as the partner, to their job, to everything.
You need to try to control thelanguage, the description of
your life, and you knoweverybody thinks around them,
absolutely, uh, number fourcontrol, manipulation.
(21:23):
Like I was just saying, theytry to control and manipulate
everything around them to to,because what other people think
is very, very important, it'simportant to all of us.
It's really, really overlyimportant to a narcissist or to
you, if you're a narcissist, um,lacks.
They have a lack ofresponsibility, a lack of
boundaries.
So if you're in a relationshipwith somebody and you're like,
why?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
do they not?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
keep trying to explain this to them.
Why do they not understand whyI don't want them calling my
friends and trying to getpersonal information about me?
You know they keep sayingthey're trying to help me.
Um, you know I go.
They have no boundaries becausethey don't want to have
boundaries, because finding outabout you is how they manipulate
you.
Yeah um and a lack of empathy,which I think is.
You know what we're talkingabout.
(22:05):
You know Narcissism and empathyare the two sides of the human
um psyche.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I think extremes are ego and extremes are and our
wounds and extremes are like ourthe opposite of the exact same
wound.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh, that.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, um, they see threats everywhere.
You know there's constantly apotential threat to their,
whatever it is.
Um, how they feel is everythingand that's, that's just wording
, because they don't.
Most people who arenarcissistic Don't have
necessarily real feelings likeyou would actually see them.
And if, if you suspect thatyour feelings aren't actually
(22:43):
really feelings because there'syour true superficial, then you
might actually be, you know, anarcissist.
I might need to seek help.
So splitting, uh, they're goodand other people are bad.
Every story they tell they'rethe hero of which is actually,
you know, that's actually true.
And then a fear of rejection orridicule, which actually we
(23:06):
didn't live with.
That one was left off the list.
Fear of rejection or ridicule.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Absolutely yes, and I would also add a fear of well,
this is more with thecodependent, but a fear of
abandonment and a fear of younot needing them.
But, yes, absolutely a fear ofrejection and ridicule and it's
oh God, it's so deeply rootedand that's why they again, they
(23:32):
have to look and feel and makeyou look and feel well.
Publicly you have to look andpresent as perfection, but
behind closed doors they'retearing you down every which way
because of your imperfections.
You know they use your woundsand your flaws, which everybody
(23:54):
has, but they use that toemotionally manipulate you.
But then when you're out inpublic, y'all better be in a
happy, fricking family orwhatever the situation is.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, and they're very concerned with what other
people think in that regard.
That's why they have to haveeveryone look a certain way,
talk a certain way, like they'remanaging everything.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, exactly, it's very much about how they present
and how other people perceivethem, including their partners
and their children.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, yeah, 100%, that's actually, yeah, that's so
true.
So that is.
I love this information, ifyour assistance suggestions.
Before we go and close out ouramazing episode on signs of a
narcissist, what are somerecommendations that you would
make for somebody who willappeal to both, because I think
(24:48):
you pointed out something that'svery important.
It's very easy to bash andthat's going on everywhere.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I'm not really bashing narcissists and I don't
think that's going to helpanybody.
So if you're a narcissist, orif you're in a relationship with
a narcissist and you'rerealizing it, having looked into
this episode, here are someoptions for you and how to move
forward.
Yep, are you having anysuggestions for that?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I do, and I appreciate you reiterating that.
This is not about bashingpeople who have either severe
narcissistic tendencies or havenarcissistic person or disorder,
many of whom go undiagnosed,but it's definitely about
recognizing them so that you canput up healthy boundaries.
(25:36):
So that's really why we'rehaving this conversation.
So I know we discussed earlierhaving financial control and
making sure that you're notallowing them to have control
over aspects of your life thatwere something to go south, you
can't get out.
So be very mindful of that andfind ways to regain that if
(25:57):
you've lost it, even if thatmeans like you have to open a
joint account with anotherfamily member and start
scrolling money away withanother family member that's in
their account or whatever it is.
But just definitely find waysto be in control of your
finances and your livingsituation.
And I would also then recommendlearning ways to how should I
(26:22):
say this?
Learn all the differentmanipulation techniques so that
you can see it when it happens.
You can go, ah, that'sgaslighting, ah, that's whatever
it is, and then learn how todeflect it or negate it, because
then they don't have power overyou, because most of the time
you get the victim gets so intotheir emotional triggers because
(26:44):
they're now invalidated andthey feel hurt and they're
trying to then, yeah, but blah,blah, blah, blah and they try to
convince the narcissist thatthey're not who they're being
told that they are.
They get so into their triggerthat then they're just digging
themselves in the hole becauseyou're doing exactly what the
narcissist wants you to do.
(27:04):
They want you to feel like shitand they want you to try to
convince them otherwise so thatthey can then turn around and
convince you how wrong you are.
So when you can see it for whatit is and you know how to
negate it, you don't get intothat cyclical conversation of
trying to get them to changetheir minds.
You just deflect it and negateit.
(27:24):
And half the time it's aboutcalling it for what it is like.
Oh, you're trying to gaslight me.
I get it.
Go ahead, give it a shot.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know what?
When I'm gonna add to the list,do they like to gaslight?
Because they are our system's,our world class.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Pro gaslighters and not to say that's probably their
top manipulation tactic, butit's by no means the only.
So I really recommend peoplelearn the different types of
manipulation tactics and you'llread through the descriptions
and go, oh, holy cow, wow, I'veseen all of these.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Oh, I think you just hit on the next episode that you
and I are gonna do together.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
No manipulation tactics.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yes, okay, I think that's something.
Okay, I love that idea.
I think it works.
This was I just feel this isgoing to be helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I can perfectly I hope so, I really hope so.
But, yes, any more of youramazing suggestions for what to
do, honestly, aside from I meanI think we touched on a lot of
them the learning, themanipulation techniques, and
then how to negate them, todisempower them, but also to
have the financial control, butthen also the emotional control,
(28:32):
because they keep you around bycontrolling how you feel.
So you have to really learn torecognize that, as you said,
everything they say essentiallyis a way to control how you
think, feel and perceive andbelieve about either you or them
.
So when you recognize that itallows you to keep yourself in
(28:54):
check and become very self-awareof when you are allowing them
to control how you feel aboutyourself and when you can go ooh
, he just said that and I tookit immediately.
Personally, I felt awful aboutit, but that's me giving my
power away.
I just gave him that control.
So I'm gonna take that.
I'm not gonna let that happen.
I recognize that that's anintentional behavior on his part
(29:16):
or her part, of whoever it is.
You're dealing with myexperience as a female.
I'm thinking back to my ownexperience.
So, but once you're veryself-aware of that, then you can
regain control and make yourown choice, because we all
believe it or not.
We all choose how we think,feel, believe, perceive, all of
(29:38):
that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
We create our own reality.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It is Exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And every thought you have, every word you say,
everything you allow to pass,everything you put up with
Speaks to how you believe aboutyourself, which speaks to your
reality.
You create your reality.
You really do.
You guys are so powerful.
You know nothing.
That's one of my you know and Iknow they beat up America a bit
but one of my frustrations forthe powers that they've taken
(30:04):
away.
By the way we've structured allof our systems.
Yes everybody into standing inline because you want everyone
to behave the same, becausethat's how we control everybody.
Yeah, in fact, we're incrediblypowerful beings and we are
capable of creating our ownreality on levels that would
would blow, you know, our minds20 years ago, and people are
(30:26):
finally coming awake to that,and I think that's an amazing
thing.
I think a lot of people arecoming awake to this kind of
thing and about being unhappyand choosing to Take control of
their life.
So I think a lot of people whoare choosing to listen to this
episode are To be congratulated,because that this is their sign
that you're trying to takecontrol and Um and change your
(30:49):
life so that you can be happier.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Absolutely, because you either and and for those of
you going, I don't control whenyou know someone hurts my
feelings, I don't control how Ifeel about that you do.
But let me be clear there's adifference between, um A
conscious choice and anunconscious choice, right?
So you can either be veryself-aware and consciously
choose your response, or you canoperate from your triggered,
(31:16):
subconscious, wounded mind andreact right, which means you're
operating out of an old woundthat you've had forever.
It's still a choice, Though itmay be an unconscious one.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, so the the the.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
The thing is to learn to.
Then, even if you've alreadyoperated from the unconscious
one, if, once you becomeself-aware of it, you can make a
new choice.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, you can stop something midstream.
You don't have to finish offthe conversation from that old
yes, stop and go.
No, wait, wait, you know what?
We're not going to do this.
I'm not going to behave thisway Because no one has the power
to make you feel the way thatyou feel exactly, unless you
allow it, and this is so slighttangent, but not really so.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
What?
When I help people who workwith um, negative and lower and
energies and entities as anenergy healer, one of the
prayers that I teach them is I'man all-powerful being of divine
white light.
No one and nothing has powerover me, save that which I allow
.
You have no power over me.
(32:24):
I'm a sovereign being of God,and so it's acknowledging that
if you're allowing someone tocontrol you emotionally, it's a
choice you've made.
Consciously or unconsciouslyit's a choice you've made.
Absolutely you can make a newchoice.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So, so, wow, we did.
This has been such a juicy,juicy episode I'm gonna have to
break it.
It's gonna be, you guys, it'sgonna be like two parts.
So if you didn't hear the firstpart or what up, check, check
my listings and you'll see howmany parts this is.
Um, we've been talking aboutthe signs of a narcissist and
have had such a blast to never.
(33:03):
Thank you Like wise.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
But no, thank you.
I I love talking with you.
I think we could come up with awhole litany.
Oh, it's not big.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I can never see this is gonna take down a life of its
own.
Yeah, I agree, the energy isjust incredible.
And you know, life is so shortand I really believe that when
you something feels right, youjust do it, you just go, we're
gonna have a ball and you guysare gonna totally benefit.
Uh, so you'll hear more aboutthat later.
(33:31):
Please check the listings forum part one or part two or part
three I'm not sure how manyparts it's gonna be, but you'll
see it in the listings.
And, jennifer, thank you somuch.
Have a gorgeous, gorgeous week.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, and justonce again, um, if anybody wants
to to learn more about me, theycan go to my website, which is
wwwangelenergyhealingnet, andfrom there they can also access
my my social media accounts ifthey're interested in, um, uh,
following me there, but Littleself-promotions.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
You're all future social medias here as well.
Oh, persons perfect and you guys, please, please, like, share
and comment on this episode.
We're growing the show.
Our goal is to teachconsciousness, spirituality,
healing to as many people aspossible, so please support our
efforts with your own socialmedia platforms.
And Check out other episodes ofintention with shaman ices by
(34:26):
visiting youtube, spotify, buzz,sprout and apple podcasts.
You'll find it listed in all ofthe major podcast places, um,
and you can please visit mywebsite, shamanisiscom.
I help people heal upon theirlife purpose and get into my
body and soul harmony, and youcan learn more about that at
shaman Isiscom.
Anyway, have a beautiful dayand dinner for us.
(34:47):
We'll see you soon, absolutely.
Thank you again so much.
You're so welcome.
Thank you Bye.
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