May 22, 2025 • 39 mins
Have you ever wondered if it's possible to practice intuitive eating when you medically can't eat certain foods? In this enlightening conversation with Katy Harvey, non-diet dietitian and intuitive eating specialist, we explore the complex relationship between necessary dietary restrictions and a healthy relationship with food.
Resources to Support Your Journey
For those interested in learning more about intuitive eating while managing necessary dietary restrictions, Katy recommended joining her Facebook group "Intuitive Eating Made Easy" or exploring her courses "Stepping Off the Dieting Rollercoaster" and "Non-Diet Academy." These resources provide structured support for rebuilding a healthy relationship with food, even when medical conditions require certain limitations.
Save money, and no more guessing for dinner! Use code GFE to get 20% off annual membership at thedinnerdaily.com. Plan meals for less than $4/month and save money at the grocery store!
Come join us in our free Facebook Community, The Gluten Free Engineer.
It’s a space where you can connect with others living gluten-free, ask questions, swap tips and recipes, and get support from people who truly get it. Whether you’re newly diagnosed or a seasoned gluten-free pro, you’ll feel right at home.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carrie Saunders (00:00):
Quick reminder before we get started on this
episode this podcast is based onmy personal experiences and
isn't medical advice.
Today, I'm so excited to bringyou a powerful and encouraging
conversation with Katie Harvey,a non-diet dietician, intuitive
eating expert and host of theRebuilding your Trust With your
(00:20):
Body podcast.
Katie helps women break freefrom diet culture, stress less
about food and make peace withtheir bodies.
In this episode, we're divinginto the intersection of
intuitive eating and thegluten-free lifestyle, because,
yes, you can honor your health,eat the foods you love and feel
good about your body all at thesame time.
We'll talk about how goinggluten-free can affect your
(00:42):
relationship with food, commonmistakes people make when they
start eating gluten-free, andhow to approach nutrition
without falling into a dietmentality.
If you've ever felt overwhelmedby what you should or shouldn't
eat or wondered if intuitiveeating is even possible when you
have to be gluten-free, thisepisode is for you.
Welcome to the Gluten-FreeEngineer Podcast.
I'm your host, k Saunders.
(01:04):
In 2011, I was diagnosed withceliac disease a moment that
changed everything, but I wasdetermined not to let it hold me
back.
With my two engineering degrees, I set out to reverse engineer
the gluten-free lifestyle,breaking down recipes, safety
tips, travel hacks andeverything in between to rebuild
a life I love.
Whether you have celiac disease, gluten intolerance or simply
(01:26):
choose to live gluten-free, thispodcast is for you.
Join me each week as wesimplify the gluten-free
lifestyle, make it fun and provethat you don't have to miss out
on anything.
Welcome back to the show.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Katie Harvey andshe is a Midwest girl, a
non-diet dietitian and the hostof Rebuilding your Trust with
(01:47):
your Body podcast.
She specialized in intuitiveeating and helping women ditch
and dieting.
So welcome to the show today,katie.
I'm so glad to have you on ourpodcast.
Katy Harvey (01:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm so thrilled to be here.
I cannot wait for thisconversation.
Carrie Saunders (02:01):
So tell us a little bit more about you.
I've, you know, gave a littlebrief introduction, but I know
there's more behind, katie, sotell us a little bit more about
you.
Katy Harvey (02:10):
Oh, of course, yeah .
So I grew up in Iowa, I live inKansas city and, as far as my
background, I am a registereddietitian, but I always present
myself to people as I'm anon-diet dietitian, because
usually when people first heardietitian, they're like, oh my
gosh, you're going to put me ona diet, and they just think that
(02:32):
that's basically all we do isput people on diets and help
them lose weight, and so I takea very different approach.
I take a non-diet approachbecause what we know is that
dieting actually does not worklong term for the vast majority
of people.
But I care very much abouthelping you honor your health
and to feel good in your bodyand about your body, and so I
(02:53):
focus a lot on our relationshipwith food and you know why we're
eating, what we're eating, howwe're feeling about it, how
we're feeling about our bodies,and I do that through the lens
of intuitive eating is kind ofmy shtick and it's my framework
that I use with most of myclients.
So, as far as my work, I have aprivate practice where I work
(03:16):
with people individually, andthen I have online courses and
programs where I work withpeople from all across the world
, which is so much fun.
Carrie Saunders (03:24):
So I love that you help people with their
relationship with food, becauseI know our listeners are most of
them are celiac or they'regluten intolerant for where they
choose to be gluten-free foranother health reason and it I
even have a podcast episode afew episodes back about.
You know, what does it do toyou when you find that you have
to, you know, be gluten free?
(03:46):
It is.
It can be a grieving processand anger behind it too.
So I love that you come at itwith a you know, a way that
we're looking at a relationshipwith food, because I think
that's really important, becausewe can be bitter on a situation
like that or we could also, youknow, just have an unhealthy
(04:06):
relationship in a differentdirection.
So what do you see the rolethat a diet culture plays in our
relationship with this food?
Katy Harvey (04:16):
It's, it's so complicated and I would say I
mean diet culture is sopervasive, like for all of us
who are alive and breathingtoday.
We were born into a world thatalready subscribed to the idea
that thin is good and fat is bad, and our ideas about how to
accomplish thinness and avoidfatness, have you know, they
(04:38):
kind of ebb and flow.
It's like, oh, low fat, butthen we changed our mind.
Oh, low carb, and nowintermittent fasting, low fat,
but then we changed our mind oh,low carb, and now intermittent
fasting.
And so the actual dietsthemselves are kind of a moving
target.
But that underlying premisethat thinness means that you're
being good, you're being healthy, you're being virtuous, you're
being successful, and thatfatness means the opposite of
(04:59):
all of those things is kind oflike the core belief system that
diet culture is built around.
And then what I have seen a lotin the past decade or so is the
entering of wellness culturecenter stage.
So now it's not always so muchabout oh, we need to go on a
(05:20):
diet and lose weight, because alot of people have caught on to
the reality that diets don'treally work and it's like well,
this isn't a diet and loseweight, because a lot of people
have caught on to the realitythat diets don't really work and
it's like, well, this isn't adiet, it's a lifestyle change.
And now there's all these ideasof what we need to be doing to
get healthy.
And in my podcast I have thissegment that I do I call it
Wellness Woo where I'll breakdown these things that are just
(05:40):
like pseudoscientific kind ofnonsense or things where the
claims have just been vastlyover-exaggerated.
And I actually see we can talkabout this more if you want to.
But I actually see thegluten-free recommendation a lot
in the wellness woo space Amillion percent.
There are times that people canbenefit from or need to be
(06:02):
avoiding gluten.
There are also a lot of thingswhere people are told they
should do that and it's utternonsense and it's not necessary.
And I don't believe in doingunnecessary restrictions with
food because I think thatnegatively impacts our
relationship with food.
So this diet culture thing andthis wellness culture thing, I
mean it's just so baked intoeverything all around us and
(06:22):
it's hard to escape from iteverything all around us and
it's hard to escape from it.
Carrie Saunders (06:29):
I think it really is and I think also you
know from from a little bit ofwhat you said there is like
sometimes that also makes ithard for those that do actually
need to be gluten-free to begluten-free safely, because
people think it's just a fadthat you're doing or something
like that, or or you're tryingto be special or you know.
So that can really affect, Ifeel like, our psychology.
With food especially those forceliac or those that need to be
(06:50):
off of it for health reasons, itcan be you can always feel like
an outcast.
Katy Harvey (06:54):
Or that thing where it's like you know, people
might be throwing around the thephrase gluten-free sort of
loosely or saying that they are,that something they made is,
but if they don't trulyunderstand, like with celiac,
what it means, that like youcan't be cross contaminating or
anything.
And there's gluten free as faras kind of like more of the
(07:16):
trend or like kind of the dietyversion of it.
And then there's gluten free oflike the protocol that needs to
be followed medically and thenthere's, you know, kind of in
between areas with that as well.
But yeah, it can be sort ofinvalidating or even at times
dangerous for people who trulyneed to be gluten-free.
Carrie Saunders (07:33):
Yes, I know I have gotten as a celiac gluten
to accidentally, especially inthe beginning when I didn't
understand the protocol and ormy friends or family didn't
understand.
You know the protocol of thecross contact or cross
contamination and you know Iwould get sick from it or one of
my kids would get sick from it,who also are celiac too.
So I know, as a dietitian, whatdo you see, some of the biggest
(07:56):
mistakes and misconceptionspeople have about going gluten
free.
We kind of touched on a littlebit, but can you go a little
deeper there?
Katy Harvey (08:04):
I think one of the biggest ones is the idea that
being gluten-free is justinherently a healthier lifestyle
.
It's the way that it's talkedabout in culture implies that if
you're not eating gluten, thatyou're like trying to be
healthier, and so then you know,the unspoken part of that is
(08:27):
that, oh, that must mean glutenis unhealthy.
And for a lot of people, if youask them, like, what is gluten,
they have no idea but they'reavoiding it right, and so I like
to tell people that, okay, ifyou're not eating gluten, that
doesn't make your dietinherently healthier.
And in fact, a lot of peoplewho cut gluten now it's like
(08:49):
what they end up eating is notnecessarily giving them the
balance and variety andnutrition that they need.
So I think that's one thing isjust this global assumption that
it's a healthy lifestyle in andof itself that we should all be
striving for, as if gluten issomehow bad for us, just
universally as humans, whichit's not.
(09:11):
Yes, there are some peoplewhose bodies don't react well to
it, but that doesn't mean thateverybody should be avoiding it
or trying to minimize it for anyreason.
So I think that that's sort ofthe biggest global
misunderstanding that I see inthe gluten-free space.
Carrie Saunders (09:30):
Well, and what I found, too, is that a lot of
people who go gluten-freewhether it's because they have
to or not they replace thosegluten items with gluten-free
processed food too, and I talkabout that on our podcast.
That's not necessarilyhealthier.
You're going to be muchhealthier if you're replacing it
with whole foods that arenaturally gluten-free and you're
eating a variety of fruits andvegetables and you know proteins
(09:53):
and things like that that areactually are, you know,
naturally gluten-free.
And replacing that donut that's, you know, that has full of
gluten with a gluten-free donutis not any better, unless you
medically need it.
Katy Harvey (10:06):
And I think so many people think like oh, this
gluten-free donut like this ismore virtuous than a regular
donut.
I mean, really, they'rebasically the same thing.
Otherwise, you know, it's likenot a significant swap really.
Carrie Saunders (10:20):
Right, yeah, and I even and I talk about
sometimes, and I'm sure you canprobably back this up too that
many that gluten foods arefortified with certain minerals
that we tend to not eat inAmerica because we're not eating
.
Katy Harvey (10:54):
An important point.
Yeah, I mean I think about likea lot of the gluten containing
foods.
They are fortified with Bvitamins, folate, sometimes iron
even, which obviously we canget iron from meat and stuff,
but like folate in particular, alot of people do not get enough
of, and one of our main sourcesof it um, a good example is
breakfast cereal.
Carrie Saunders (11:18):
So then let's say that somebody does need to
be gluten-free.
They're listening to thepodcast, they're celiac or
they're gluten intolerant forsome other reason.
You know, maybe they have agluten intolerance in general or
they need to be off glutenbecause it helps a different
autoimmune disease.
How would you recommend gettingthose vitamins that are not in
these four?
(11:38):
You know our foods aren'tfortified with them, so how
would you recommend gettingthose vitamins?
Would it be throughsupplementation or would it be
through specific other foodsthat are naturally gluten-free?
Katy Harvey (11:50):
I lean more towards other foods when possible.
There's time and place forsupplements, but the vast
majority of supplements thatpeople take are a complete waste
of money and big supplement youknow, we all talk about big
pharma.
Big supplement is its own beast.
It's a billion dollar industry,multi-billion dollar and a lot
(12:12):
of it's basically a scam.
It's so many people are justcreating expensive pee for
themselves through supplementsand one of my issues with
supplements is like okay, bestcase scenario they are treating
a deficiency or keeping you fromgetting a deficiency and
they're doing something positivefor your health.
Worst case scenario it'scausing you actual harm and then
(12:35):
the you know most of whathappens is somewhere in between,
where it's basically doingnothing or very little for you
and people, because it's it'scompletely unregulated by any
governing body like the FDA doesnot oversee it, so there is no
guarantee.
That's what.
What is in those supplementbottles is actually what it says
on the bottle or in that dose,or that there's not other things
(12:57):
added.
And that's an important pointfrom a gluten standpoint,
because some of those things cancontain gluten that you may not
be aware of and you have to payattention for that.
Supplements can also interactwith medications, for example.
So I caution people withsupplements.
Again, there is a time and place, absolutely, but I don't like
(13:18):
to just sort of say let'sreplace food with supplements
and not worry about thenutrition that we're eating,
because there's also a lot ofbenefit to getting the nutrients
from food, because when we'reeating these foods we're also
getting the other nutrients thatcome along with it in that food
.
So you're not just getting thesingle thing, like you would in
a supplement.
You're getting, like plantfoods, for example, you're
getting the other phytonutrientsthat are in there.
(13:40):
You might be getting some fiber, which is really important.
So when possible, to get itfrom food for sure.
And then, if you're not gettingenough, supplement is like.
Let's think about what the wordsupplement means.
It means to like in addition to, or to kind of make up for, not
to replace.
Carrie Saunders (13:58):
I think that's a great point and I think a lot
of people don't think about thatand they just go for the quick
fix, get that supplement, and Iknew in my experience like
supplements are sort ofpositioned as healthy, right, so
it's the same thing.
Katy Harvey (14:10):
I'm being gluten-free and I'm taking all
these supplements and I'm beingso healthy.
Carrie Saunders (14:24):
Right.
Well, and I know in myexperience when I have had to
supplement, if I really have todig and find that supplement
that is more bioavailable toothan the ones that come from
basically the pharmaceutical-ishtype of companies where they're
really concentrated in smallpills and they don't actually
have a bit more natural versionof that vitamin within the pill.
And many times I've found thosesupplements that I do actually
(14:47):
notice a difference on.
I have to take three or fourpills across the whole day to
actually get the nutrients and Iactually can see a difference
versus, you know, the ones thatare just generic or you know,
highly concentrated or something.
They just aren't available.
Katy Harvey (15:03):
There's probably people listening who it's like,
oh my gosh, they've got liketheir big, like cabinet full of
supplements, or like their pillsorter, and it's like taking
your supplements as a full-timejob Cause you're like, okay,
I've got to like stay on thisschedule and I have to take this
many of them, and it can becomea lot to manage too.
Carrie Saunders (15:19):
It really can, and I feel like you know anybody
listening who might bequestioning you know, am I doing
the right thing withsupplementation?
Katy Harvey (15:25):
I encourage you to work with your doctor and a
dietician like Katie, like as adietician, a lot of times
clients will send me theirsupplement list and they'll be
like can you just help me siftthrough this and like tell me,
ok, what should I be taking,what could I let go of?
And we can usually whittle downa decent chunk of them and then
there may be a few core onesthat we keep.
So that's a great use for adietitian, because it's really
(15:47):
our wheelhouse is to be able tolook at those different
micronutrients and stuff andother types of supplements as
well, to kind of gauge likewhat's helping and not helping.
And yes, we may need to kind ofwork with your doctor to figure
out what would be necessary andsafe medically.
Carrie Saunders (16:05):
Right, and I know that many supplements and
some people listening may notunderstand this or know this.
They need another vitamin withthem to be more bioavailable,
and that's something that adietician like you can help them
with.
You know cause we absorbcalcium better when we're have
some of the other vitamins thatnaturally iron with vitamin C?
Katy Harvey (16:24):
Yeah, exactly.
Carrie Saunders (16:25):
Yeah, and so if you don't know what you're
doing with supplementation, youcould be, like you said, just
wasting your money and wastingyour time.
Katy Harvey (16:33):
Um, let me give you another example, too, of kind
of the dark side, like my ownmother at one point was taking
green tea supplement.
Green tea, it's so healthy.
This supplement must be sohealthy.
It gave her liver damage.
Her doctor's like why are yourliver enzymes so high?
And they were looking ateverything she's taking.
And, lo and behold, this greentea supplement was the culprit.
And it turns out that's afairly common thing that happens
(16:56):
.
So again, like, just becauseit's a supplement or it's
natural or it's a, you know, avitamin, it doesn't mean that
it's safe.
And also we have to considerwhat's the dosage and so many
things.
So I would encourage people tonot just go willy nilly putting
yourself on supplements, like doit with, with the expertise of
somebody who knows what they'redoing.
Carrie Saunders (17:16):
For sure, because you know we're not
experts.
You know most of us listeningaren't experts in diet,
nutrition and or a doctor.
So I completely agree with youthat checking with a dietician
and and or your doctor in manytimes, especially the dietician,
because sometimes the doctorsdon't have the time or resources
to be looking into that unlessthey're more of a holistic
(17:37):
doctor as well.
Katy Harvey (17:37):
So I feel like a lot of people don't realize that
doctors in med school getalmost zero nutrition.
They might get like a threehour lecture on nutrition.
It's a very minimal part oftheir training and so you know,
just like I don't walk aroundpretending to be a surgeon or to
know how to do that, I wishthere's some doctors who are
very good about saying, yes,please go see a dietician.
But some doctors are just likegiven this off the wall
(18:01):
nutrition advice and I'm like,okay, hold on.
And and that's another thing tohave like just because a doctor
wrote a book, let's say itdoesn't, that's about diet.
It does not mean that that'sactually sound advice, because
it's really not their training,it's not necessarily their
(18:21):
expertise, unless they do haveadditional training in nutrition
.
Carrie Saunders (18:25):
Well then, let's go back to going
gluten-free and how it affectsour relationship with food.
So maybe you can speak a littlebit to more towards you know,
those who are celiac or have tobe gluten-free for other reasons
.
You know how can we help them,you know, have a good, healthy
relationship and not feel what'sthe word I want to come up with
(18:50):
Like where they feel mad orupset that they have to do this
diet change and they have thisyou know, anger type of
relationship with food becausethey're having to upheave their
whole you know way of life andchange their complete diet.
So how do you help them repairthat relationship with food
whenever they do have to go offof gluten?
Katy Harvey (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, cause I think there's like different
camps of people who end upgluten-free, where sometimes
it's by it's kind of forced uponthem with a diagnosis.
And then there's just you knowpeople maybe more by choice, and
when it's by choice, a lot oftimes it feels more like a
positive change in their life.
Lot of times it feels more likea positive change in their life
(19:38):
when it's when you get thatceliac diagnosis, let's say, and
it rocks your world and you'retold you can't have gluten, and
not only you can't have it like,or you know you can have a
little bit of, and it's like no,like you can't have it.
And you need to be pretty darndiligent about that.
I you used the word griefearlier.
It's a grieving process andpeople will often go through the
stages of grief, maybe denial,anger, bargaining, depression
(20:04):
and then ultimately acceptance.
And it's so important thatyou're allowing yourself to
experience each of those phasesit's not necessarily going to go
in that order, you might cycleback through some of them and
that it's such a valid thingbecause it takes away a lot of
the freedom that you have tojust kind of go live life and do
(20:25):
whatever.
I'm thinking of this weekend myson's having his birthday party
at this trampoline park.
So the trampoline park isproviding pizza and cookie cake.
Well, if a celiac kid is comingto this party, they can't just
eat pizza and cookie cake.
So what do they do?
Are they going to not come tothe party?
Are they going to come andbring their own food?
Are they going to come and noteat?
(20:45):
Like all three of thosescenarios kind of suck, you know
, and it's same for us as adults.
Like it.
It limits what you can chooseat a restaurant.
You may have times where you'reinadvertently getting exposed
and you're getting sick.
I mean even the way you have tooperate your kitchen.
If you live with other people,you're going to have to have
(21:05):
like a separate toaster or makesure you're not
cross-contaminating and you'rejust having to think through so
many things that most peopledon't have to think about deeply
on a daily basis and that's alot.
So self-compassion for thatlike validating your experience
and letting yourself acknowledgethose emotions and affirm for
(21:28):
yourself that of course this ishard, yes, this is hard, and it
is an act of self-care to dowhat you need to do to take care
of your body in that way.
Carrie Saunders (21:39):
Well, I think that you know I, as you were
talking there you know it issuch a mental load to have to be
constantly thinking about howdo I eat when I go to this place
.
There is pizza at a party andthe kids have the pizza greasy
fingers, and it goes everywhereand you know you end up touching
(22:05):
a surface that they've got itand then you eat something
gluten-free with your hands andboom, now you've got gluten a
little bit, cause the pizzagrease, I feel like, carries
gluten like nothing else outthere it is.
It's like a gluten transformer.
That grease just like carriesit along.
And so you know it's mentallytaxing and I think we need to,
like you said, give ourselvesgrace, especially once we've
(22:27):
gotten past the grieving stages,and give ourselves grace.
And that you know we have thishigher mental load on ourselves
whenever we are either celiacourselves or need to be
gluten-free for other medicalreasons or our children are in
our family.
It's both.
We've all three of our childrenhave it and I have it and,
honestly, my dad was diagnosedwith it, you know, and I found
(22:51):
out after he passed away.
He denied it for over 10 yearsand didn't tell anybody.
His wife didn't even know.
He didn't tell me.
I told him to be tested.
Both my parents, whenever Ifound out I had celiac in our
kids too, they completely deniedit until you know, until he
passed.
And I found it in his medicalrecords after he passed.
So denial is real.
Wow, denial can be huge.
(23:14):
Yeah, yes, denial and grief canbe so real, for sure.
Katy Harvey (23:20):
I'd love to also speak to, or about the person
who may have decided to cut outgluten as a byproduct of some
issues in their relationshipwith food.
So I work with a lot of folkswho have disordered eating and
eating disorders and this is atheme that I see over and over
again people choosing to gogluten-free, essentially as a
(23:45):
form of restriction, of tryingto control their food and to be
able to potentially lose weight,and it becomes sort of a way to
maybe avoid things like cookiesand brownies and pizza and
things that they feel like theyshouldn't be eating or that they
don't deserve to eat.
(24:05):
So it's like, well, if I justgo gluten-free, then that kind
of like takes care of thatproblem and they don't
necessarily medically need to begluten-free.
And oftentimes for thatindividual part of healing their
relationship with food andrecovering from that disordered
eating is going to be thereintroduction of gluten foods
and making peace with thosefoods.
(24:25):
And so I feel fairly certainthat there may be some of those
folks who are listening to this,and then you may have some
folks who are kind of in between, who are like I thought I
needed to be gluten free, but Idon't have a diagnosis
officially.
Maybe I feel better when I don'teat it, but I guess I don't
know for sure.
Like, I've worked with a lot ofthose people who are sort of in
(24:45):
between, and especially ifyou're having a lot of like GI
issues and stuff, sometimespeople are like is it the gluten
, Because we hear so much aboutthat, or is it dairy or whatever
?
And that's where, again,working with a dietician can be
really helpful, becausesometimes it's like once we kind
of heal your gut and get thingsback in working order, people
are surprised like oh, actuallyI can tolerate these things,
(25:08):
that I didn't think that I could.
And it might be sort of scaryif they've been avoiding those
foods because they feel guiltywhen they eat them.
But once you make peace withfood and you realize you don't
have to cling on to all theserestrictions, it's just like
life is so much easier and youhave so much more freedom and
flexibility.
Carrie Saunders (25:28):
So well and the play off that.
I know that for me, you knowI'm I'm approaching 50s here
soon.
A lot of people are like youare like till 29.
When I look at you, I'm like no, I'm actually 48.
I look at you, I'm like, no,I'm actually 48.
But I know, for me, I struggleto lose some extra belly fat and
(25:48):
being gluten-free I'm already,because I'm celiac, I'm already
restricted on what I eat and youteach a lot about intuitive
eating.
So if somebody is listening andthey have to be gluten-free and
they do want to lose someweight but they don't want to
diet because they realize, youknow, they're older, like me and
they realize, well, thisdoesn't actually, it only
temporarily works and it doesn'treally work long-term.
(26:10):
How would you advise them tolike, help them do intuitive
eating so that they fuel theirbody appropriately, so they feel
comfortable in their body andmaybe lose a little bit of extra
weight if they need to do that,but but real ultimately have a
good relationship with food andand are just, you know, eating
by intuition.
What does that actually meanand how would somebody do that?
Katy Harvey (26:30):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm like so excited becausethis is my wheelhouse, so I'm
going to kind of break apart afew components of what you asked
about.
So the first aspect people willsometimes come to me and
they'll say I'm interested inintuitive eating but I probably
can't do that because I have tofollow this like kind of medical
type of dietary restriction, soin this case gluten.
(26:53):
But I hear it a lot also frompeople with, like, diabetes or
food allergies or whatever.
So they'll say, like can I eatintuitively when I can't?
Like I can't have a cupcakethat has gluten in it if,
intuitively, I want it?
Like I'm not supposed to dothat.
So how is that intuitive eating?
And my answer to that is yes, amillion percent.
(27:17):
We can follow dietaryrestrictions with intuitive
eating.
When we look at it through thelens, that part of eating
intuitively is honoring yourbody's medical needs.
A lot of people hear intuitiveeating and they kind of
misunderstand what it means.
Some people think it means eatwhatever you want whenever you
want.
That's not intuitive eating,that's impulsive eating.
(27:39):
Some people think intuitiveeating is just eat when you're
hungry, stop when you're full,and hunger and fullness are part
of it.
Within the intuitive eatingframework.
There's 10 principles, andhunger and fullness are two of
them, but that's 20%.
The other 80% has a lot to dowith how we think about food and
health and nutrition and ourbodies, and so we would think
(28:01):
about okay, yes, we want tohonor hunger and fullness, we
want to choose satisfying foods.
But also part of listening toyour body is listening to your
medical data, listening to thefact that if your body is saying
it cannot tolerate gluten, thenyou should not be eating gluten
, and so we would look at it aslike that is listening to your
body.
(28:22):
And then, if you are cravingthings like desserts, let's find
some gluten-free ways toincorporate those that are
enjoyable for you.
So there's that aspect thatintuitive eating is still a
beautiful framework, even whenyou have to have gentle
nutrition modifications is whatwe call those.
And then, when it comes to kindof like the body image stuff and
(28:45):
like, well, what do I do if Iknow dieting doesn't work, but I
kind of want to lose someweight?
So I want to speak a little bitmore to this concept that
dieting doesn't work and what wemean by that.
So what we know is that aperson can go on pretty much any
diet, it doesn't matter if it'sthe cookie diet, the cabbage
soup diet, weight watchers, keto, intermittent fasting, whatever
(29:07):
.
You can go on any of them andyou probably will lose some
weight initially, but theproblem is, within two to five
years, about 95% of people haveregained that weight and for two
thirds of those people, they'veregained more than they lost,
which is what makes dietingitself the number one predictor
of weight gain, not weight loss.
So the other problem with thatis when we yo-yo, when our
(29:31):
weight goes up and down over andover again.
We call it weight cycling, andthat weight cycling itself is
actually very hard on your bodyand your health and your
metabolism, and weight cyclingcorrelates with increased risk
of heart disease and increasedrisk of early death.
So when I tell people like wehave got to get you off the
dieting roller coaster, that iswhat I mean.
(29:53):
We don't want to be yo-yoing upand down, so we want to look at
how do you eat in a way thatallows you to live life without
feeling crazy and obsessed aboutfood all the time, because when
you're depriving yourself, thatis what will happen.
And how do you do that when youcan also honor your health and
maintain a stable body weightthat is appropriate for your
(30:13):
body and your genetics at thisphase of life, because it does
change throughout life.
Sometimes I have people who are,you know, like in their 50s or
even their 60s, who think thatthey should weigh what they did
at like 25.
And I'm like, okay, that's anunrealistic expectation.
So, for women in particular,when we approach that menopause
change where it's like pubertypart two and our hormones are
(30:35):
shifting, that's anotherwellness woo thing, by the way,
is like all this hormonebalancing stuff and preying on
women who are perimenopausal islike all this hormone balancing
stuff and preying on women whoare perimenopausal of like
here's my special diet programand supplements and exercises
that are gonna get rid of yourbelly fat.
It's utter nonsense, becausepart of what's happening when we
go through menopause is we areexperiencing a decrease in our
(30:57):
estrogen production.
Your ovaries are shutting down.
You're not secreting estrogen.
Well, your body loves estrogenand estrogen is good for your
bones, it's good for your heartand that's why postmenopausal
women are at higher risk forheart disease and osteoporosis,
and so your body's actuallyreally smart and it goes well.
If my ovaries aren't giving meenough estrogen, is there
(31:20):
another way to get some of itand turns out belly fat secretes
estrogen.
So this belly fat that weexperience when we go through
menopause is quite literallylike your body taking care of
you.
It actually has some healthbenefits and it's often a futile
effort to try and fight againstit because your body's not
(31:40):
going to want to get rid of it.
So, as hard as it is becauseour culture does not like round
bellies on women, or that bellypooch or however you want to
think of it, it's very much seenas like not the aesthetic ideal
.
And then we hear all this stuffabout the dangers of abdominal
adipose tissue, blah, blah, blah.
(32:00):
And you have to look at contextand nuance with that.
So you know when we'respecifically talking about women
, going through menopause likethis is a very expected, normal
and even beneficial change, andit can be so hard to tolerate
and accept that.
So I you know I never promiseany of my clients weight loss.
What I tell them is when youstep away from dieting, when you
(32:24):
want to make peace with food,when you want to have a positive
relationship with your body andhonor your health, you might
gain weight, you might loseweight, you might stay the same.
And what happens with yourweight.
Very much is going to depend onwhere you're currently at in
relation to where your body kindof wants to be, and then it's
also going to depend on how arethings going as you're
(32:47):
implementing intuitive eating,because a lot of people who wing
it and try I call it DIYing itwith intuitive eating they're
like watching the YouTube videosand listening to the podcast
they're implementing itincorrectly is maybe the most
simple way to put it.
I see a lot of the impulsiveeating, just like, oh, I thought
I was doing intuitive eatingbecause I was eating whatever I
(33:09):
wanted.
Well, that's not listening toyour body, that's just eating
whatever pops into your head, orthey're not really.
They might be including some ofthe foods that they use to
restrict when they're dieting,but they're still feeling guilty
and they're still judging itand they're thinking of it as
crap and junk and blah, blah,blah, and what that's doing is
actually increasing the drivefor overconsumption of those
(33:31):
foods.
So we've got to do the mentalwork as well.
So, anyway, I mean that's avery long-winded answer to the
complexities of that question,but I hope that this gives
people something to really thinkabout and that they can kind of
see themselves in it too.
Carrie Saunders (33:44):
Um, I think that's really well explained,
honestly, because I, you know, Icame into this podcast
interview not knowing much aboutwhat intuitive eating was, and
so I love how you really brokethat down and made it, um, you
know, kind of a little bit morepiece by piece and that it's
there's a lot of mental to itwhich makes a lot of sense when
you think about it, and that weneed to listen to our bodies and
(34:09):
listen to our brain some, butlike not quite overdo it, kind
of like how you're talking aboutwhere we can be overindulging
instead.
So I love how you really brokethat down.
So, for those listening whomight be interested in more
information about intuitiveeating or getting a hold of you
or connecting with you more,what are some best ways for them
(34:29):
to reach out to you and learnmore about intuitive eating and
the services that you provide?
Katy Harvey (34:34):
Well, of course, I would love that, so probably the
best place to come hang outwould be my Facebook group.
So I have a Facebook groupcalled Intuitive Eating Made
Easy and I am in there every day.
I am currently the only admin,the only moderator, and it's a
safe group.
So I have a Facebook groupcalled intuitive eating made
easy and I am in there every day.
I am currently the only admin,the only moderator, and it's a
safe group.
What I was telling people?
I run a tight ship there.
We don't do big drama oranything, and so it's a
wonderful, supportive,compassionate community and I do
(34:57):
a lot of you know, kind of minitrainings and education and
resources in there.
And, uh, for people who are onInstagram, you can always find
me over there as well.
I'm at Katie Harveyrd.
Carrie Saunders (35:10):
Nice, and then so do you also mentioned you
have some courses, too, on this.
What so?
What are the courses that youhave on intuitive eating?
Katy Harvey (35:18):
Yeah.
So I have one uh, it's calledstepping off the dieting
rollercoaster, and that one isperfect for the person who's
kind of like okay, I think I'mready to not do the dieting
thing anymore, but I'm alsoscared.
Because I'm scared I'm going togain weight and I think I might
want to try this intuitiveeating thing, but I don't know
exactly what to do or how to doit like, kind of right from the
get-go.
It's perfect for that personbecause I show you how to make
(35:39):
that transition without it goingoff the rails and that's kind
of a mini course so you can getthrough it pretty quickly.
And then my more robust 10-weekprogram.
It's a group coaching programand a course is called Non-Diet
Academy and that's where we'regetting in there and we're
really kind of overhauling yourentire relationship with food.
(35:59):
We're healing your metabolism,we're implementing intuitive
eating, we're looking atemotional eating and body image
and your relationship withexercise.
So if you're the person who'slike I need the whole shebang,
that would be more of where Iwould steer you.
Carrie Saunders (36:13):
I love that.
I love how you reallyincorporate the mental aspect
into it, because that is really,I feel like, the long-term way
to be healthier with food is.
You've got to heal thatrelationship, emotionally and
mentally, with your food, so Ilove that you have a course that
covers that?
Yeah, Because it's that's oneof the reasons why diets don't
(36:34):
work, is it's just a bandaid?
Katy Harvey (36:36):
Yeah, you can white knuckle the behaviors for a
while, and eventually yourbody's going to override that
because it works against yourbiology, not with it, and so I,
the way I frame it people's likelet's learn how to work with
your body instead, and that wayit becomes something you can
sustain for a lifetime.
Carrie Saunders (36:55):
That's great, so I really appreciate you
having you on our show andteaching us a bit more about
intuitive eating, and you knowall the complexities that
nutrition can be there when youhave celiac or gluten
intolerance.
I appreciate you being on ourshow.
Katy Harvey (37:11):
Oh, absolutely, this was great.
And I just want to say, like,what you are doing here is so
important to have a space forthese discussions and I know
people who are trying to begluten free.
I mean, there's it's.
It can be very overwhelming, itcan be very lonely, and so to
to be able to realize, okay, I'mnot alone and there's a place
to just have these conversationsand to kind of process all of
(37:31):
it and even getting new ideasand whatever.
So I just, I want to, you know,kind of cheer you on, because I
think you're doing incrediblethings.
Thank you so much.
Carrie Saunders (37:40):
Katie.
Wow, I hope you love thatconversation with Katie as much
as I did.
She brings so much clarity andcompassion to a topic that many
of us struggle with, especiallywhen you're navigating something
like celiac disease or glutenintolerance.
Here's a reminder You'reallowed to enjoy food, you can
be gluten-free without beingstuck in food fear or diet rules
(38:03):
, and you're worthy of feelinggood in your body.
If you want to hear more aboutKatie, be sure to check out her
podcast Rebuilding Trust withyour Body.
It's full of practical adviceand thoughtful encouragement for
anyone looking to break freefrom diet culture and, as always
, you can find more links toKatie and other resources at our
website,theglutenfreeengineercom.
(38:24):
And we will see you next week.
The Gluten-Free Engineerpodcast is for informational and
entertainment purposes only.
I share my personal experiencesand stories about living with
celiac disease and navigating agluten-free lifestyle.
This podcast does not providemedical advice.
Always consult with a qualifiedhealthcare professional for
medical questions, concerns oradvice specific to your health.
Quick reminder before we get started on this
episode this podcast is based onmy personal experiences and
isn't medical advice.
Today, I'm so excited to bringyou a powerful and encouraging
conversation with Katie Harvey,a non-diet dietician, intuitive
eating expert and host of theRebuilding your Trust With your
(00:20):
Body podcast.
Katie helps women break freefrom diet culture, stress less
about food and make peace withtheir bodies.
In this episode, we're divinginto the intersection of
intuitive eating and thegluten-free lifestyle, because,
yes, you can honor your health,eat the foods you love and feel
good about your body all at thesame time.
We'll talk about how goinggluten-free can affect your
(00:42):
relationship with food, commonmistakes people make when they
start eating gluten-free, andhow to approach nutrition
without falling into a dietmentality.
If you've ever felt overwhelmedby what you should or shouldn't
eat or wondered if intuitiveeating is even possible when you
have to be gluten-free, thisepisode is for you.
Welcome to the Gluten-FreeEngineer Podcast.
I'm your host, k Saunders.
(01:04):
In 2011, I was diagnosed withceliac disease a moment that
changed everything, but I wasdetermined not to let it hold me
back.
With my two engineering degrees, I set out to reverse engineer
the gluten-free lifestyle,breaking down recipes, safety
tips, travel hacks andeverything in between to rebuild
a life I love.
Whether you have celiac disease, gluten intolerance or simply
(01:26):
choose to live gluten-free, thispodcast is for you.
Join me each week as wesimplify the gluten-free
lifestyle, make it fun and provethat you don't have to miss out
on anything.
Welcome back to the show.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Katie Harvey andshe is a Midwest girl, a
non-diet dietitian and the hostof Rebuilding your Trust with
(01:47):
your Body podcast.
She specialized in intuitiveeating and helping women ditch
and dieting.
So welcome to the show today,katie.
I'm so glad to have you on ourpodcast.
Katy Harvey (01:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm so thrilled to be here.
I cannot wait for thisconversation.
Carrie Saunders (02:01):
So tell us a little bit more about you.
I've, you know, gave a littlebrief introduction, but I know
there's more behind, katie, sotell us a little bit more about
you.
Katy Harvey (02:10):
Oh, of course, yeah .
So I grew up in Iowa, I live inKansas city and, as far as my
background, I am a registereddietitian, but I always present
myself to people as I'm anon-diet dietitian, because
usually when people first heardietitian, they're like, oh my
gosh, you're going to put me ona diet, and they just think that
(02:32):
that's basically all we do isput people on diets and help
them lose weight, and so I takea very different approach.
I take a non-diet approachbecause what we know is that
dieting actually does not worklong term for the vast majority
of people.
But I care very much abouthelping you honor your health
and to feel good in your bodyand about your body, and so I
(02:53):
focus a lot on our relationshipwith food and you know why we're
eating, what we're eating, howwe're feeling about it, how
we're feeling about our bodies,and I do that through the lens
of intuitive eating is kind ofmy shtick and it's my framework
that I use with most of myclients.
So, as far as my work, I have aprivate practice where I work
(03:16):
with people individually, andthen I have online courses and
programs where I work withpeople from all across the world
, which is so much fun.
Carrie Saunders (03:24):
So I love that you help people with their
relationship with food, becauseI know our listeners are most of
them are celiac or they'regluten intolerant for where they
choose to be gluten-free foranother health reason and it I
even have a podcast episode afew episodes back about.
You know, what does it do toyou when you find that you have
to, you know, be gluten free?
(03:46):
It is.
It can be a grieving processand anger behind it too.
So I love that you come at itwith a you know, a way that
we're looking at a relationshipwith food, because I think
that's really important, becausewe can be bitter on a situation
like that or we could also, youknow, just have an unhealthy
(04:06):
relationship in a differentdirection.
So what do you see the rolethat a diet culture plays in our
relationship with this food?
Katy Harvey (04:16):
It's, it's so complicated and I would say I
mean diet culture is sopervasive, like for all of us
who are alive and breathingtoday.
We were born into a world thatalready subscribed to the idea
that thin is good and fat is bad, and our ideas about how to
accomplish thinness and avoidfatness, have you know, they
(04:38):
kind of ebb and flow.
It's like, oh, low fat, butthen we changed our mind.
Oh, low carb, and nowintermittent fasting, low fat,
but then we changed our mind oh,low carb, and now intermittent
fasting.
And so the actual dietsthemselves are kind of a moving
target.
But that underlying premisethat thinness means that you're
being good, you're being healthy, you're being virtuous, you're
being successful, and thatfatness means the opposite of
(04:59):
all of those things is kind oflike the core belief system that
diet culture is built around.
And then what I have seen a lotin the past decade or so is the
entering of wellness culturecenter stage.
So now it's not always so muchabout oh, we need to go on a
(05:20):
diet and lose weight, because alot of people have caught on to
the reality that diets don'treally work and it's like well,
this isn't a diet and loseweight, because a lot of people
have caught on to the realitythat diets don't really work and
it's like, well, this isn't adiet, it's a lifestyle change.
And now there's all these ideasof what we need to be doing to
get healthy.
And in my podcast I have thissegment that I do I call it
Wellness Woo where I'll breakdown these things that are just
(05:40):
like pseudoscientific kind ofnonsense or things where the
claims have just been vastlyover-exaggerated.
And I actually see we can talkabout this more if you want to.
But I actually see thegluten-free recommendation a lot
in the wellness woo space Amillion percent.
There are times that people canbenefit from or need to be
(06:02):
avoiding gluten.
There are also a lot of thingswhere people are told they
should do that and it's utternonsense and it's not necessary.
And I don't believe in doingunnecessary restrictions with
food because I think thatnegatively impacts our
relationship with food.
So this diet culture thing andthis wellness culture thing, I
mean it's just so baked intoeverything all around us and
(06:22):
it's hard to escape from iteverything all around us and
it's hard to escape from it.
Carrie Saunders (06:29):
I think it really is and I think also you
know from from a little bit ofwhat you said there is like
sometimes that also makes ithard for those that do actually
need to be gluten-free to begluten-free safely, because
people think it's just a fadthat you're doing or something
like that, or or you're tryingto be special or you know.
So that can really affect, Ifeel like, our psychology.
With food especially those forceliac or those that need to be
(06:50):
off of it for health reasons, itcan be you can always feel like
an outcast.
Katy Harvey (06:54):
Or that thing where it's like you know, people
might be throwing around the thephrase gluten-free sort of
loosely or saying that they are,that something they made is,
but if they don't trulyunderstand, like with celiac,
what it means, that like youcan't be cross contaminating or
anything.
And there's gluten free as faras kind of like more of the
(07:16):
trend or like kind of the dietyversion of it.
And then there's gluten free oflike the protocol that needs to
be followed medically and thenthere's, you know, kind of in
between areas with that as well.
But yeah, it can be sort ofinvalidating or even at times
dangerous for people who trulyneed to be gluten-free.
Carrie Saunders (07:33):
Yes, I know I have gotten as a celiac gluten
to accidentally, especially inthe beginning when I didn't
understand the protocol and ormy friends or family didn't
understand.
You know the protocol of thecross contact or cross
contamination and you know Iwould get sick from it or one of
my kids would get sick from it,who also are celiac too.
So I know, as a dietitian, whatdo you see, some of the biggest
(07:56):
mistakes and misconceptionspeople have about going gluten
free.
We kind of touched on a littlebit, but can you go a little
deeper there?
Katy Harvey (08:04):
I think one of the biggest ones is the idea that
being gluten-free is justinherently a healthier lifestyle
.
It's the way that it's talkedabout in culture implies that if
you're not eating gluten, thatyou're like trying to be
healthier, and so then you know,the unspoken part of that is
(08:27):
that, oh, that must mean glutenis unhealthy.
And for a lot of people, if youask them, like, what is gluten,
they have no idea but they'reavoiding it right, and so I like
to tell people that, okay, ifyou're not eating gluten, that
doesn't make your dietinherently healthier.
And in fact, a lot of peoplewho cut gluten now it's like
(08:49):
what they end up eating is notnecessarily giving them the
balance and variety andnutrition that they need.
So I think that's one thing isjust this global assumption that
it's a healthy lifestyle in andof itself that we should all be
striving for, as if gluten issomehow bad for us, just
universally as humans, whichit's not.
(09:11):
Yes, there are some peoplewhose bodies don't react well to
it, but that doesn't mean thateverybody should be avoiding it
or trying to minimize it for anyreason.
So I think that that's sort ofthe biggest global
misunderstanding that I see inthe gluten-free space.
Carrie Saunders (09:30):
Well, and what I found, too, is that a lot of
people who go gluten-freewhether it's because they have
to or not they replace thosegluten items with gluten-free
processed food too, and I talkabout that on our podcast.
That's not necessarilyhealthier.
You're going to be muchhealthier if you're replacing it
with whole foods that arenaturally gluten-free and you're
eating a variety of fruits andvegetables and you know proteins
(09:53):
and things like that that areactually are, you know,
naturally gluten-free.
And replacing that donut that's, you know, that has full of
gluten with a gluten-free donutis not any better, unless you
medically need it.
Katy Harvey (10:06):
And I think so many people think like oh, this
gluten-free donut like this ismore virtuous than a regular
donut.
I mean, really, they'rebasically the same thing.
Otherwise, you know, it's likenot a significant swap really.
Carrie Saunders (10:20):
Right, yeah, and I even and I talk about
sometimes, and I'm sure you canprobably back this up too that
many that gluten foods arefortified with certain minerals
that we tend to not eat inAmerica because we're not eating
.
Katy Harvey (10:54):
An important point.
Yeah, I mean I think about likea lot of the gluten containing
foods.
They are fortified with Bvitamins, folate, sometimes iron
even, which obviously we canget iron from meat and stuff,
but like folate in particular, alot of people do not get enough
of, and one of our main sourcesof it um, a good example is
breakfast cereal.
Carrie Saunders (11:18):
So then let's say that somebody does need to
be gluten-free.
They're listening to thepodcast, they're celiac or
they're gluten intolerant forsome other reason.
You know, maybe they have agluten intolerance in general or
they need to be off glutenbecause it helps a different
autoimmune disease.
How would you recommend gettingthose vitamins that are not in
these four?
(11:38):
You know our foods aren'tfortified with them, so how
would you recommend gettingthose vitamins?
Would it be throughsupplementation or would it be
through specific other foodsthat are naturally gluten-free?
Katy Harvey (11:50):
I lean more towards other foods when possible.
There's time and place forsupplements, but the vast
majority of supplements thatpeople take are a complete waste
of money and big supplement youknow, we all talk about big
pharma.
Big supplement is its own beast.
It's a billion dollar industry,multi-billion dollar and a lot
(12:12):
of it's basically a scam.
It's so many people are justcreating expensive pee for
themselves through supplementsand one of my issues with
supplements is like okay, bestcase scenario they are treating
a deficiency or keeping you fromgetting a deficiency and
they're doing something positivefor your health.
Worst case scenario it'scausing you actual harm and then
(12:35):
the you know most of whathappens is somewhere in between,
where it's basically doingnothing or very little for you
and people, because it's it'scompletely unregulated by any
governing body like the FDA doesnot oversee it, so there is no
guarantee.
That's what.
What is in those supplementbottles is actually what it says
on the bottle or in that dose,or that there's not other things
(12:57):
added.
And that's an important pointfrom a gluten standpoint,
because some of those things cancontain gluten that you may not
be aware of and you have to payattention for that.
Supplements can also interactwith medications, for example.
So I caution people withsupplements.
Again, there is a time and place, absolutely, but I don't like
(13:18):
to just sort of say let'sreplace food with supplements
and not worry about thenutrition that we're eating,
because there's also a lot ofbenefit to getting the nutrients
from food, because when we'reeating these foods we're also
getting the other nutrients thatcome along with it in that food
.
So you're not just getting thesingle thing, like you would in
a supplement.
You're getting, like plantfoods, for example, you're
getting the other phytonutrientsthat are in there.
(13:40):
You might be getting some fiber, which is really important.
So when possible, to get itfrom food for sure.
And then, if you're not gettingenough, supplement is like.
Let's think about what the wordsupplement means.
It means to like in addition to, or to kind of make up for, not
to replace.
Carrie Saunders (13:58):
I think that's a great point and I think a lot
of people don't think about thatand they just go for the quick
fix, get that supplement, and Iknew in my experience like
supplements are sort ofpositioned as healthy, right, so
it's the same thing.
Katy Harvey (14:10):
I'm being gluten-free and I'm taking all
these supplements and I'm beingso healthy.
Carrie Saunders (14:24):
Right.
Well, and I know in myexperience when I have had to
supplement, if I really have todig and find that supplement
that is more bioavailable toothan the ones that come from
basically the pharmaceutical-ishtype of companies where they're
really concentrated in smallpills and they don't actually
have a bit more natural versionof that vitamin within the pill.
And many times I've found thosesupplements that I do actually
(14:47):
notice a difference on.
I have to take three or fourpills across the whole day to
actually get the nutrients and Iactually can see a difference
versus, you know, the ones thatare just generic or you know,
highly concentrated or something.
They just aren't available.
Katy Harvey (15:03):
There's probably people listening who it's like,
oh my gosh, they've got liketheir big, like cabinet full of
supplements, or like their pillsorter, and it's like taking
your supplements as a full-timejob Cause you're like, okay,
I've got to like stay on thisschedule and I have to take this
many of them, and it can becomea lot to manage too.
Carrie Saunders (15:19):
It really can, and I feel like you know anybody
listening who might bequestioning you know, am I doing
the right thing withsupplementation?
Katy Harvey (15:25):
I encourage you to work with your doctor and a
dietician like Katie, like as adietician, a lot of times
clients will send me theirsupplement list and they'll be
like can you just help me siftthrough this and like tell me,
ok, what should I be taking,what could I let go of?
And we can usually whittle downa decent chunk of them and then
there may be a few core onesthat we keep.
So that's a great use for adietitian, because it's really
(15:47):
our wheelhouse is to be able tolook at those different
micronutrients and stuff andother types of supplements as
well, to kind of gauge likewhat's helping and not helping.
And yes, we may need to kind ofwork with your doctor to figure
out what would be necessary andsafe medically.
Carrie Saunders (16:05):
Right, and I know that many supplements and
some people listening may notunderstand this or know this.
They need another vitamin withthem to be more bioavailable,
and that's something that adietician like you can help them
with.
You know cause we absorbcalcium better when we're have
some of the other vitamins thatnaturally iron with vitamin C?
Katy Harvey (16:24):
Yeah, exactly.
Carrie Saunders (16:25):
Yeah, and so if you don't know what you're
doing with supplementation, youcould be, like you said, just
wasting your money and wastingyour time.
Katy Harvey (16:33):
Um, let me give you another example, too, of kind
of the dark side, like my ownmother at one point was taking
green tea supplement.
Green tea, it's so healthy.
This supplement must be sohealthy.
It gave her liver damage.
Her doctor's like why are yourliver enzymes so high?
And they were looking ateverything she's taking.
And, lo and behold, this greentea supplement was the culprit.
And it turns out that's afairly common thing that happens
(16:56):
.
So again, like, just becauseit's a supplement or it's
natural or it's a, you know, avitamin, it doesn't mean that
it's safe.
And also we have to considerwhat's the dosage and so many
things.
So I would encourage people tonot just go willy nilly putting
yourself on supplements, like doit with, with the expertise of
somebody who knows what they'redoing.
Carrie Saunders (17:16):
For sure, because you know we're not
experts.
You know most of us listeningaren't experts in diet,
nutrition and or a doctor.
So I completely agree with youthat checking with a dietician
and and or your doctor in manytimes, especially the dietician,
because sometimes the doctorsdon't have the time or resources
to be looking into that unlessthey're more of a holistic
(17:37):
doctor as well.
Katy Harvey (17:37):
So I feel like a lot of people don't realize that
doctors in med school getalmost zero nutrition.
They might get like a threehour lecture on nutrition.
It's a very minimal part oftheir training and so you know,
just like I don't walk aroundpretending to be a surgeon or to
know how to do that, I wishthere's some doctors who are
very good about saying, yes,please go see a dietician.
But some doctors are just likegiven this off the wall
(18:01):
nutrition advice and I'm like,okay, hold on.
And and that's another thing tohave like just because a doctor
wrote a book, let's say itdoesn't, that's about diet.
It does not mean that that'sactually sound advice, because
it's really not their training,it's not necessarily their
(18:21):
expertise, unless they do haveadditional training in nutrition
.
Carrie Saunders (18:25):
Well then, let's go back to going
gluten-free and how it affectsour relationship with food.
So maybe you can speak a littlebit to more towards you know,
those who are celiac or have tobe gluten-free for other reasons
.
You know how can we help them,you know, have a good, healthy
relationship and not feel what'sthe word I want to come up with
(18:50):
Like where they feel mad orupset that they have to do this
diet change and they have thisyou know, anger type of
relationship with food becausethey're having to upheave their
whole you know way of life andchange their complete diet.
So how do you help them repairthat relationship with food
whenever they do have to go offof gluten?
Katy Harvey (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, cause I think there's like different
camps of people who end upgluten-free, where sometimes
it's by it's kind of forced uponthem with a diagnosis.
And then there's just you knowpeople maybe more by choice, and
when it's by choice, a lot oftimes it feels more like a
positive change in their life.
Lot of times it feels more likea positive change in their life
(19:38):
when it's when you get thatceliac diagnosis, let's say, and
it rocks your world and you'retold you can't have gluten, and
not only you can't have it like,or you know you can have a
little bit of, and it's like no,like you can't have it.
And you need to be pretty darndiligent about that.
I you used the word griefearlier.
It's a grieving process andpeople will often go through the
stages of grief, maybe denial,anger, bargaining, depression
(20:04):
and then ultimately acceptance.
And it's so important thatyou're allowing yourself to
experience each of those phasesit's not necessarily going to go
in that order, you might cycleback through some of them and
that it's such a valid thingbecause it takes away a lot of
the freedom that you have tojust kind of go live life and do
(20:25):
whatever.
I'm thinking of this weekend myson's having his birthday party
at this trampoline park.
So the trampoline park isproviding pizza and cookie cake.
Well, if a celiac kid is comingto this party, they can't just
eat pizza and cookie cake.
So what do they do?
Are they going to not come tothe party?
Are they going to come andbring their own food?
Are they going to come and noteat?
(20:45):
Like all three of thosescenarios kind of suck, you know
, and it's same for us as adults.
Like it.
It limits what you can chooseat a restaurant.
You may have times where you'reinadvertently getting exposed
and you're getting sick.
I mean even the way you have tooperate your kitchen.
If you live with other people,you're going to have to have
(21:05):
like a separate toaster or makesure you're not
cross-contaminating and you'rejust having to think through so
many things that most peopledon't have to think about deeply
on a daily basis and that's alot.
So self-compassion for thatlike validating your experience
and letting yourself acknowledgethose emotions and affirm for
(21:28):
yourself that of course this ishard, yes, this is hard, and it
is an act of self-care to dowhat you need to do to take care
of your body in that way.
Carrie Saunders (21:39):
Well, I think that you know I, as you were
talking there you know it issuch a mental load to have to be
constantly thinking about howdo I eat when I go to this place
.
There is pizza at a party andthe kids have the pizza greasy
fingers, and it goes everywhereand you know you end up touching
(22:05):
a surface that they've got itand then you eat something
gluten-free with your hands andboom, now you've got gluten a
little bit, cause the pizzagrease, I feel like, carries
gluten like nothing else outthere it is.
It's like a gluten transformer.
That grease just like carriesit along.
And so you know it's mentallytaxing and I think we need to,
like you said, give ourselvesgrace, especially once we've
(22:27):
gotten past the grieving stages,and give ourselves grace.
And that you know we have thishigher mental load on ourselves
whenever we are either celiacourselves or need to be
gluten-free for other medicalreasons or our children are in
our family.
It's both.
We've all three of our childrenhave it and I have it and,
honestly, my dad was diagnosedwith it, you know, and I found
(22:51):
out after he passed away.
He denied it for over 10 yearsand didn't tell anybody.
His wife didn't even know.
He didn't tell me.
I told him to be tested.
Both my parents, whenever Ifound out I had celiac in our
kids too, they completely deniedit until you know, until he
passed.
And I found it in his medicalrecords after he passed.
So denial is real.
Wow, denial can be huge.
(23:14):
Yeah, yes, denial and grief canbe so real, for sure.
Katy Harvey (23:20):
I'd love to also speak to, or about the person
who may have decided to cut outgluten as a byproduct of some
issues in their relationshipwith food.
So I work with a lot of folkswho have disordered eating and
eating disorders and this is atheme that I see over and over
again people choosing to gogluten-free, essentially as a
(23:45):
form of restriction, of tryingto control their food and to be
able to potentially lose weight,and it becomes sort of a way to
maybe avoid things like cookiesand brownies and pizza and
things that they feel like theyshouldn't be eating or that they
don't deserve to eat.
(24:05):
So it's like, well, if I justgo gluten-free, then that kind
of like takes care of thatproblem and they don't
necessarily medically need to begluten-free.
And oftentimes for thatindividual part of healing their
relationship with food andrecovering from that disordered
eating is going to be thereintroduction of gluten foods
and making peace with thosefoods.
(24:25):
And so I feel fairly certainthat there may be some of those
folks who are listening to this,and then you may have some
folks who are kind of in between, who are like I thought I
needed to be gluten free, but Idon't have a diagnosis
officially.
Maybe I feel better when I don'teat it, but I guess I don't
know for sure.
Like, I've worked with a lot ofthose people who are sort of in
(24:45):
between, and especially ifyou're having a lot of like GI
issues and stuff, sometimespeople are like is it the gluten
, Because we hear so much aboutthat, or is it dairy or whatever
?
And that's where, again,working with a dietician can be
really helpful, becausesometimes it's like once we kind
of heal your gut and get thingsback in working order, people
are surprised like oh, actuallyI can tolerate these things,
(25:08):
that I didn't think that I could.
And it might be sort of scaryif they've been avoiding those
foods because they feel guiltywhen they eat them.
But once you make peace withfood and you realize you don't
have to cling on to all theserestrictions, it's just like
life is so much easier and youhave so much more freedom and
flexibility.
Carrie Saunders (25:28):
So well and the play off that.
I know that for me, you knowI'm I'm approaching 50s here
soon.
A lot of people are like youare like till 29.
When I look at you, I'm like no, I'm actually 48.
I look at you, I'm like, no,I'm actually 48.
But I know, for me, I struggleto lose some extra belly fat and
(25:48):
being gluten-free I'm already,because I'm celiac, I'm already
restricted on what I eat and youteach a lot about intuitive
eating.
So if somebody is listening andthey have to be gluten-free and
they do want to lose someweight but they don't want to
diet because they realize, youknow, they're older, like me and
they realize, well, thisdoesn't actually, it only
temporarily works and it doesn'treally work long-term.
(26:10):
How would you advise them tolike, help them do intuitive
eating so that they fuel theirbody appropriately, so they feel
comfortable in their body andmaybe lose a little bit of extra
weight if they need to do that,but but real ultimately have a
good relationship with food andand are just, you know, eating
by intuition.
What does that actually meanand how would somebody do that?
Katy Harvey (26:30):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm like so excited becausethis is my wheelhouse, so I'm
going to kind of break apart afew components of what you asked
about.
So the first aspect people willsometimes come to me and
they'll say I'm interested inintuitive eating but I probably
can't do that because I have tofollow this like kind of medical
type of dietary restriction, soin this case gluten.
(26:53):
But I hear it a lot also frompeople with, like, diabetes or
food allergies or whatever.
So they'll say, like can I eatintuitively when I can't?
Like I can't have a cupcakethat has gluten in it if,
intuitively, I want it?
Like I'm not supposed to dothat.
So how is that intuitive eating?
And my answer to that is yes, amillion percent.
(27:17):
We can follow dietaryrestrictions with intuitive
eating.
When we look at it through thelens, that part of eating
intuitively is honoring yourbody's medical needs.
A lot of people hear intuitiveeating and they kind of
misunderstand what it means.
Some people think it means eatwhatever you want whenever you
want.
That's not intuitive eating,that's impulsive eating.
(27:39):
Some people think intuitiveeating is just eat when you're
hungry, stop when you're full,and hunger and fullness are part
of it.
Within the intuitive eatingframework.
There's 10 principles, andhunger and fullness are two of
them, but that's 20%.
The other 80% has a lot to dowith how we think about food and
health and nutrition and ourbodies, and so we would think
(28:01):
about okay, yes, we want tohonor hunger and fullness, we
want to choose satisfying foods.
But also part of listening toyour body is listening to your
medical data, listening to thefact that if your body is saying
it cannot tolerate gluten, thenyou should not be eating gluten
, and so we would look at it aslike that is listening to your
body.
(28:22):
And then, if you are cravingthings like desserts, let's find
some gluten-free ways toincorporate those that are
enjoyable for you.
So there's that aspect thatintuitive eating is still a
beautiful framework, even whenyou have to have gentle
nutrition modifications is whatwe call those.
And then, when it comes to kindof like the body image stuff and
(28:45):
like, well, what do I do if Iknow dieting doesn't work, but I
kind of want to lose someweight?
So I want to speak a little bitmore to this concept that
dieting doesn't work and what wemean by that.
So what we know is that aperson can go on pretty much any
diet, it doesn't matter if it'sthe cookie diet, the cabbage
soup diet, weight watchers, keto, intermittent fasting, whatever
(29:07):
.
You can go on any of them andyou probably will lose some
weight initially, but theproblem is, within two to five
years, about 95% of people haveregained that weight and for two
thirds of those people, they'veregained more than they lost,
which is what makes dietingitself the number one predictor
of weight gain, not weight loss.
So the other problem with thatis when we yo-yo, when our
(29:31):
weight goes up and down over andover again.
We call it weight cycling, andthat weight cycling itself is
actually very hard on your bodyand your health and your
metabolism, and weight cyclingcorrelates with increased risk
of heart disease and increasedrisk of early death.
So when I tell people like wehave got to get you off the
dieting roller coaster, that iswhat I mean.
(29:53):
We don't want to be yo-yoing upand down, so we want to look at
how do you eat in a way thatallows you to live life without
feeling crazy and obsessed aboutfood all the time, because when
you're depriving yourself, thatis what will happen.
And how do you do that when youcan also honor your health and
maintain a stable body weightthat is appropriate for your
(30:13):
body and your genetics at thisphase of life, because it does
change throughout life.
Sometimes I have people who are,you know, like in their 50s or
even their 60s, who think thatthey should weigh what they did
at like 25.
And I'm like, okay, that's anunrealistic expectation.
So, for women in particular,when we approach that menopause
change where it's like pubertypart two and our hormones are
(30:35):
shifting, that's anotherwellness woo thing, by the way,
is like all this hormonebalancing stuff and preying on
women who are perimenopausal islike all this hormone balancing
stuff and preying on women whoare perimenopausal of like
here's my special diet programand supplements and exercises
that are gonna get rid of yourbelly fat.
It's utter nonsense, becausepart of what's happening when we
go through menopause is we areexperiencing a decrease in our
(30:57):
estrogen production.
Your ovaries are shutting down.
You're not secreting estrogen.
Well, your body loves estrogenand estrogen is good for your
bones, it's good for your heartand that's why postmenopausal
women are at higher risk forheart disease and osteoporosis,
and so your body's actuallyreally smart and it goes well.
If my ovaries aren't giving meenough estrogen, is there
(31:20):
another way to get some of itand turns out belly fat secretes
estrogen.
So this belly fat that weexperience when we go through
menopause is quite literallylike your body taking care of
you.
It actually has some healthbenefits and it's often a futile
effort to try and fight againstit because your body's not
(31:40):
going to want to get rid of it.
So, as hard as it is becauseour culture does not like round
bellies on women, or that bellypooch or however you want to
think of it, it's very much seenas like not the aesthetic ideal
.
And then we hear all this stuffabout the dangers of abdominal
adipose tissue, blah, blah, blah.
(32:00):
And you have to look at contextand nuance with that.
So you know when we'respecifically talking about women
, going through menopause likethis is a very expected, normal
and even beneficial change, andit can be so hard to tolerate
and accept that.
So I you know I never promiseany of my clients weight loss.
What I tell them is when youstep away from dieting, when you
(32:24):
want to make peace with food,when you want to have a positive
relationship with your body andhonor your health, you might
gain weight, you might loseweight, you might stay the same.
And what happens with yourweight.
Very much is going to depend onwhere you're currently at in
relation to where your body kindof wants to be, and then it's
also going to depend on how arethings going as you're
(32:47):
implementing intuitive eating,because a lot of people who wing
it and try I call it DIYing itwith intuitive eating they're
like watching the YouTube videosand listening to the podcast
they're implementing itincorrectly is maybe the most
simple way to put it.
I see a lot of the impulsiveeating, just like, oh, I thought
I was doing intuitive eatingbecause I was eating whatever I
(33:09):
wanted.
Well, that's not listening toyour body, that's just eating
whatever pops into your head, orthey're not really.
They might be including some ofthe foods that they use to
restrict when they're dieting,but they're still feeling guilty
and they're still judging itand they're thinking of it as
crap and junk and blah, blah,blah, and what that's doing is
actually increasing the drivefor overconsumption of those
(33:31):
foods.
So we've got to do the mentalwork as well.
So, anyway, I mean that's avery long-winded answer to the
complexities of that question,but I hope that this gives
people something to really thinkabout and that they can kind of
see themselves in it too.
Carrie Saunders (33:44):
Um, I think that's really well explained,
honestly, because I, you know, Icame into this podcast
interview not knowing much aboutwhat intuitive eating was, and
so I love how you really brokethat down and made it, um, you
know, kind of a little bit morepiece by piece and that it's
there's a lot of mental to itwhich makes a lot of sense when
you think about it, and that weneed to listen to our bodies and
(34:09):
listen to our brain some, butlike not quite overdo it, kind
of like how you're talking aboutwhere we can be overindulging
instead.
So I love how you really brokethat down.
So, for those listening whomight be interested in more
information about intuitiveeating or getting a hold of you
or connecting with you more,what are some best ways for them
(34:29):
to reach out to you and learnmore about intuitive eating and
the services that you provide?
Katy Harvey (34:34):
Well, of course, I would love that, so probably the
best place to come hang outwould be my Facebook group.
So I have a Facebook groupcalled Intuitive Eating Made
Easy and I am in there every day.
I am currently the only admin,the only moderator, and it's a
safe group.
So I have a Facebook groupcalled intuitive eating made
easy and I am in there every day.
I am currently the only admin,the only moderator, and it's a
safe group.
What I was telling people?
I run a tight ship there.
We don't do big drama oranything, and so it's a
wonderful, supportive,compassionate community and I do
(34:57):
a lot of you know, kind of minitrainings and education and
resources in there.
And, uh, for people who are onInstagram, you can always find
me over there as well.
I'm at Katie Harveyrd.
Carrie Saunders (35:10):
Nice, and then so do you also mentioned you
have some courses, too, on this.
What so?
What are the courses that youhave on intuitive eating?
Katy Harvey (35:18):
Yeah.
So I have one uh, it's calledstepping off the dieting
rollercoaster, and that one isperfect for the person who's
kind of like okay, I think I'mready to not do the dieting
thing anymore, but I'm alsoscared.
Because I'm scared I'm going togain weight and I think I might
want to try this intuitiveeating thing, but I don't know
exactly what to do or how to doit like, kind of right from the
get-go.
It's perfect for that personbecause I show you how to make
(35:39):
that transition without it goingoff the rails and that's kind
of a mini course so you can getthrough it pretty quickly.
And then my more robust 10-weekprogram.
It's a group coaching programand a course is called Non-Diet
Academy and that's where we'regetting in there and we're
really kind of overhauling yourentire relationship with food.
(35:59):
We're healing your metabolism,we're implementing intuitive
eating, we're looking atemotional eating and body image
and your relationship withexercise.
So if you're the person who'slike I need the whole shebang,
that would be more of where Iwould steer you.
Carrie Saunders (36:13):
I love that.
I love how you reallyincorporate the mental aspect
into it, because that is really,I feel like, the long-term way
to be healthier with food is.
You've got to heal thatrelationship, emotionally and
mentally, with your food, so Ilove that you have a course that
covers that?
Yeah, Because it's that's oneof the reasons why diets don't
(36:34):
work, is it's just a bandaid?
Katy Harvey (36:36):
Yeah, you can white knuckle the behaviors for a
while, and eventually yourbody's going to override that
because it works against yourbiology, not with it, and so I,
the way I frame it people's likelet's learn how to work with
your body instead, and that wayit becomes something you can
sustain for a lifetime.
Carrie Saunders (36:55):
That's great, so I really appreciate you
having you on our show andteaching us a bit more about
intuitive eating, and you knowall the complexities that
nutrition can be there when youhave celiac or gluten
intolerance.
I appreciate you being on ourshow.
Katy Harvey (37:11):
Oh, absolutely, this was great.
And I just want to say, like,what you are doing here is so
important to have a space forthese discussions and I know
people who are trying to begluten free.
I mean, there's it's.
It can be very overwhelming, itcan be very lonely, and so to
to be able to realize, okay, I'mnot alone and there's a place
to just have these conversationsand to kind of process all of
(37:31):
it and even getting new ideasand whatever.
So I just, I want to, you know,kind of cheer you on, because I
think you're doing incrediblethings.
Thank you so much.
Carrie Saunders (37:40):
Katie.
Wow, I hope you love thatconversation with Katie as much
as I did.
She brings so much clarity andcompassion to a topic that many
of us struggle with, especiallywhen you're navigating something
like celiac disease or glutenintolerance.
Here's a reminder You'reallowed to enjoy food, you can
be gluten-free without beingstuck in food fear or diet rules
(38:03):
, and you're worthy of feelinggood in your body.
If you want to hear more aboutKatie, be sure to check out her
podcast Rebuilding Trust withyour Body.
It's full of practical adviceand thoughtful encouragement for
anyone looking to break freefrom diet culture and, as always
, you can find more links toKatie and other resources at our
website,theglutenfreeengineercom.
(38:24):
And we will see you next week.
The Gluten-Free Engineerpodcast is for informational and
entertainment purposes only.
I share my personal experiencesand stories about living with
celiac disease and navigating agluten-free lifestyle.
This podcast does not providemedical advice.
Always consult with a qualifiedhealthcare professional for
medical questions, concerns oradvice specific to your health.
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