August 31, 2025 • 22 mins
Jamie shares her healing journey from anxiety, stress, guilt, and shame, revealing how therapy helped her recognize these feelings stemmed from childhood patterns rather than personal failings.
• Growing up in a household with alcoholism where Jamie took on the caretaker role
• Learning to separate her emotions from others' through EMDR therapy
• Understanding that her value isn't tied to fixing others or making them happy
• Creating space in relationships by asking "do you want advice or just listening?"
• Facing the fear of losing relationships when stepping back from the fixer role
• Using tools like writing thoughts out and sharing vulnerably with trusted people
• Recognizing healing as an ongoing process of identifying patterns and choosing new responses
Stay cute, stay loud, maybe check out therapy, and dance even when everyone is watching.
Follow me on Instagram @goasksawyer
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, good morning, happy Sunday, welcome back to Go
Ask Sawyer, season 5, in whichI am listening to you.
As I've said before, I havetalked about my story so many
times, but at the end of the day, the best way we learn is from
each other and through eachother's stories.
So today I'm welcoming on JamieHello, jamie, hey, and I have
(00:28):
asked her to think about againsomething in her life that she
has had to heal from, andeveryone that has come on my
podcast has talked aboutdifferent types of ships with
themselves, with family, withloved ones, with exes, even jobs
.
So I'm welcoming Jamie on todayto talk about whatever she felt
(00:51):
like she is healing from or hashealed from.
I'm going to ask her somequestions and I just again
welcome.
Thank you for coming on.
I want to hear your story.
Thank you for having me on.
Oh, okay, this is going to bemusical.
This is what happens when I getnervous I'm not ready.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
This is going to be fun.
It will be Okay.
Jamie, what is something youhave either healed from or you
are still working in the process?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I think I'm constantly working on this, but
I did start this journey acouple years ago when I realized
I was anxious and stressed andfeeling guilt and shame.
But at the time I didn't knowwhat those things were.
I just knew that there wassomething quote unquote wrong
with me.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Can I ask a quick question?
Yes, were there certain momentsin your life when you were
feeling anxious, stressed,ashamed, or were you just
noticing these feelings comingup more often than they had?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I was noticing them because it was coming out in my
relationships, like my marriageor at work, or with friends or
with family.
It was kind of this samereoccurring body feeling and
also people telling me why doyou always feel guilty for this
(02:15):
or why are you always doing this?
And I thought there wassomething wrong with me.
I needed to go to therapy, Ineeded to figure out how to fix
me, because something had to bewrong with me, that things
weren't going right.
So that's really where myjourney started and what I
thought I was healing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I love that and I think that's a very woman
response and I hate to put us ona box because we won't go there
, but I do think automaticallywhen people are asking us, we
think something must be wrong, Imust fix myself, and I think
it's so important to understandthat there is nothing wrong with
us, but we just don'tunderstand where we're coming
(02:57):
from.
So it's not about fixing, it'sabout understanding and seeing
and realizing and being and likeholding ourselves yes.
So first question I have foryou is before we get into the
event or person or whatever itis, what does healing look like
for you?
Like how has it felt?
What does it look like For me?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
healing has been a journey.
It's been a practice.
It's been understanding,identifying emotions that I'm
having and figuring out what todo with them, which is something
I work on every day.
I don't think there's I'm ahealed, this is a I'm, and I
(03:38):
don't even know if healing isreally the right word.
It's how do I rewire my thoughtprocess?
How do I restructure how Ihandle my emotions?
How do I rewire my thoughtprocess?
How do I restructure how Ihandle my emotions?
How do I identify them and thenhow do I work through them in a
healthy way?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I really love that, like practicing the pause when I
feel this, when this emotion iscoming up.
It's not about like, oh, wegotta fix it, but like, wait,
what is this telling me that isso scary?
I don't know about you, butlike it is scary to sit in that,
whatever that emotion is,without being like, oh, I
quickly need to push this down,I need to fix it, I need to move
(04:13):
forward, I need to put on thisbrave face and instead thinking
like I'm going to sit with thisfor a second.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, I think the biggest part in that for me was
identifying and being able toseparate my emotions from those
around me, because somethingthat I worked through a couple
years ago in therapy, especiallydoing EMDR, is that my emotions
are different than the person'semotion across from me.
(04:41):
I don't have to absorb theirs.
I get to have separate emotionsand I get to have separate
feelings and separateexperiences and I didn't realize
that almost my entire life,that I didn't do that, I didn't
validate that for myself.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I didn't validate that for myself, that is if I
remember.
I'd love to come back to that.
Okay, but could you talk aboutwhat you have currently been
healing, working on, fromwhether it's a person, situation
, whatever that is?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Sure.
So, like I said before, Ithought I was going to fix me,
which obviously therapy is aboutme if I'm going to therapy but
to dig into what I need to do tofix myself.
But really, what we ended upworking through is figuring out
when did I first start havingthese feelings, what moment,
(05:30):
what scenario happened so that,through the EMDR, we were able
to put me back in that place toidentify what was really
happening.
And I think that was thebiggest moment for me to realize
that there's nothing to fixabout me.
I'm not a bad person.
(05:52):
I'm not like.
I don't need to feel all thisguilt.
It helped me realize that therewere more players at the table
in scenarios than just mecontrolling everything that
needed to happen.
For example, in childhood,growing up in the family, I had
very loving parents, alwaysshowing us love, but they didn't
(06:14):
always have the capacity tounderstand that, outside of what
they were going through, theirchildren were going through
other things and I hadresentment, I had anger, I had
disappointment.
Once I started realizing thatthose things caused trauma.
I guess in me I didn't have atraumatic childhood where I was
(06:37):
abused or something crazyhappened.
My parents loved me.
It wasn't that it was more ofwhat they were doing, instilled
things in me that I don't thinkthey realized, nor did I realize
that that's where those thingscame from.
So it gave me the ability tosee it from a different lens and
give them grace, give myselfgrace and understand that my
(06:59):
parents and the family you know,my family around me really were
just doing the best, that theyhad the tools to do the best
with.
You know, if that makes sense,that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
That makes sense.
So you were feeling stress andanxiety.
How did that connect back to,we'll just say, childhood, like
in the EMDR, which, I'm so sorry, fans and the people?
I forgot what that stands for.
Do you remember what it standsfor?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Eye movement repetitives.
I forgot what that stands for.
Do you remember what it standsfor Eye movement Repetitive?
I don't know.
It's Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I have done it in therapy and it does take you to
places where it is like emotions, like it is.
You didn't know the emotionswere there, right, until all of
a sudden you're there and nowyou're crying and you're like
why is this happening?
So the anxiety and stress youwere feeling in your adulthood,
in your relationships, how didthat stem back to childhood?
(07:50):
Like, did you figure that out?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So I figured that out in therapy because anytime
there were people around me thatwere going through something it
was, I've just always been putin and put myself in the role of
something's unsafe.
It's my responsibility to fixit.
And I'm not unsafe, likephysically, but somebody is
(08:13):
upset.
What can I do to fix it?
If I can't fix it, thensomething's wrong with me.
Why can't I help them?
Why can't I make them happy?
I took ownership of all of thatand growing up in a household
with alcoholism and kind of thatwhole scene that's really.
Some people like myself becomethe caretaker, the person to be,
(08:35):
like I got you, I'm going tofix this, you're going to be
okay, and there's alwayssomething going on.
There's always some uncertaintyand the more I get close to
people and I understand them andI hear them and I feel them, I
lose myself, because that'swhere I have learned, through
what has happened in childhood.
(08:57):
My value is tied to how happyor comfortable or safe I can
make people feel.
And that's when doing EMDR andgoing through the different big
moments in my life that I neededto revisit.
I realized what I was doingtoday was because of what
happened then and I could handleit in a better way.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That is a lot to take on, though, okay.
So I do want to ask you how doyou before I ask you this, but
I'm going to ask you so you canthink on it for a second how do
you find value in yourself now,compared to maybe how you did?
But also like, what load didthat take off your shoulders, if
any?
To be like I don't have to fixall of you.
(09:41):
I have also been a fixer in manysituations, and it is such a
load to carry that I finallyrealized no one asked me to
carry except me, which, once Irealized that I was like what is
wrong with me Now?
What is wrong with me?
And like what is wrong with me?
But I was like I am no one'sasking me to fix them.
(10:05):
No one is asking me to carrythis stress.
I'm just doing it because Iwant them to see my value, I
want them to see how great I am,or I feel like I have to, or
everything's going to fall apart, which then I asked myself like
so what if everything fallsapart?
I didn't cause the chaos in thefirst place and again, all the
suitcases to unpack.
(10:25):
You can either answer how doyou see your value now, or find
value in relationships now,without fixing people or taking
on stress.
Or and did anything?
Get lifted off your shouldersonce you realized you didn't
have to be that person.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
The weight coming off my shoulders is per scenario,
per experience.
Still today, it's something I'mworking on, but when I can
actually separate ownership ofwhat someone else is going
through versus how I can handleit or what I'm going through, it
does lift a big weight off, andthe way that I work to do that
(11:04):
is to create space, to make surethat that person has space.
I don't need to always havesomething to say, I don't need
to always offer advice.
I think you and I were eventalking one time and we were
having a conversation and Iasked you.
I tried to make space by askingyou do you want my advice or do
you want me to just listen?
Like being able to do thatstops my mind from spinning of
(11:27):
the seven scenarios that I haveto go through to figure out how
to help you feel better, becausethat's not my responsibility to
make you feel better, but, asyour friend, it's my
responsibility to support you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And same in all other relationships in my life.
So real quick, can I ask is itscary Because we only know of?
I feel valued when I can fix,when I can help, when I can give
advice, if I'm like trying toextend my help and the other
person is like I don't want it.
Or when you stop and realize,dang, no one is asking for this.
You know when, like you say infriendships, like stop texting
and stop calling and see whoactually shows up, and then all
(12:07):
of a sudden you realize like twopeople keep showing up and no
one else is and you're like,okay, I was carrying that.
Like is there any fear behindthat?
Once I do pull back, are peoplegoing to value me the same?
And when I say people, I meaneither jobs, ships, whatever
that is Like is there any fearthere?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
There is fear.
There is fear with losing peoplewho matter to me.
I'm not sure how much I matterto them.
I think the bigger fear to metoday is if I lose you because I
didn't fix you or I didn't putin the effort, is it because I
overcorrected something I wastrying to fix, or is it truly
(12:48):
you just weren't supposed tostay there because I was done
lifting the weight?
I'm still trying to work out.
That's definitely something Italk about in therapy even today
, because a lot of my fear istied to me failing, and I think
where I create more chaos in myhead about failing is I will
always come up with four toseven scenarios in my head and I
(13:12):
need to slow down, give peopleautonomy to be and react however
they want to react without metrying to fix it.
So that's a big lesson in thisand how I take the weight off of
my shoulders and also thattakes the weight off of the
other person, because I'm notprojecting all of my thoughts
and fears onto them.
(13:32):
I'm letting them just be andgive them the space to be.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Don't you also think by like, letting people, what is
it, the whole let them theory?
Right, by letting people justbe and not interfering and not
fixing, you're kind of allowing,like you're allowing yourself
to finally see where they wantyou in their life.
And I mean, I know for methat's scary.
And it's scary in the fact ofbecause all my listeners know I
(13:58):
struggle with choose me, thechoose me attachment.
But I do worry that once I stoplike who's showing up for me,
who's letting me fall back, whowants my advice, who wants to be
in my presence without anythingelse from me so I know my
(14:18):
choose me part comes out.
But I think the more I'm ableto like, let go of that and
realize, the more I choose me,even if it feels selfish to
other people, like I don't evenwant to help you handle that, I
don't even want to help you fixthis mess, because this is not
my, this is not my drama, thisis not my circus the more I am
(14:39):
choosing peace so hard.
Maybe some people are startingto fall back and, yeah, certain
things hurt, but I feel like I'mstarting to overcome that.
I need to fix.
I need to fix and the peoplethat want the advice, that are
like, hey, I need you to help me, are reaching out and I'm like
holy cow, you do value me, youdo want this from me.
(15:01):
Or even just like you want tohang out with me because you
enjoy my friendship and you wantnothing else.
You don't need me to fix you,you don't need this, you don't
need that, you don't needanything else, you just want me,
which is a very differentfeeling, because I know you and
I have talked about like ourupbringing and I don't know,
have you experienced that Likewhere someone is like just like,
(15:22):
I just want to be in yourpresence.
I don't want you to do anything.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I don't even know if I've been aware of that yet, but
that feels like something Ishould start thinking more about
, I think right now I'm so in myhead on trying to control
what's happening upstairs here.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
So now Jamie can't control other people, she's
going to control herself.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I can't control the whole situation anymore.
I don't have the mentalcapacity for that anymore, but
I'm really trying to stay out ofassuming what other people.
Yeah, but that's an interestingthought, like I've never really
thought, like just payingattention.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Just pay attention to who shows up and wants to just
like hang out.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, I've never looked at it that way because
I'm always trying to figure outhow I'm showing up for other
people, like, am I doing enoughfor the people so they know I
want them in my life?
I've never looked the mirrorthe other way.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely your next
suitcase to look at.
Yeah, I like suitcases, I wantto look at them.
So you looked at stuff in yourchildhood.
You're working on that.
You're going to therapy EMDRspecifically.
I'd love to know what othertools do you have, because I
talk a lot about journaling, Italk about going for walks, I
(16:41):
talk about, you know, exercise,eating, well, like, we all have
different things in our toolbox,and the self-care movement, the
self-love movement, is anall-time high.
What tools do you have thateither A help you with your
healing, or B, when you arestuck, when your past self is
trying to pull you back, whenyou're like, whoa, how can I get
(17:02):
out of this?
Or I know what's happening, Ineed to get out.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Tools that I have.
I will write things down.
I don't have a constant journal, but something that I I mean
you are following my journals.
I'm kidding, you follow thejournal, kidding, kidding,
kidding.
However, when I feel stuck, orI need to get past something, or
I need to pull something out ofthe toolbox, I will type out a
(17:27):
letter to whomever or myself, orjust ranting and get it all out
, because the messiest place inthe world is in my head and
that's where all my confusionand anxiety you know everybody's
is up in their noggin.
But I type it all out and thenI delete it.
Otherwise, another tool that Ihave is and I didn't realize
(17:49):
this was a tool or a strengthuntil my therapist told me it
was but two people I know I canbe vulnerable for.
I just spit out all theinformation my wife.
I'll just say this is somethingI'm working on and I think I
feel here, or I think I could dothis better, or this is
something I'm struggling with.
I just say the things out loud.
I think doing that, instead ofkeeping it in my head, is the
(18:12):
best tool for me that I can pullout of the toolbox.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Do you, when you say that stuff to her, do you
preface it with?
I need you to say this, Like,does she know you're saying it
to get it out of your brain?
So, like she supports you in.
Like okay, Jamie is going tosay a bunch of things and then
we're going to work throughwhatever we have to.
And is that scary?
Because I feel like that'd bereally scary for me.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
It is scary, but the most helpful thing that she does
is after I have a therapysession, she asks me how therapy
goes.
Therapy went, how.
What I had to talk about, likehow it went what my therapist
said, you know all the things.
She's curious about it so thatwhen I do randomly bring things
up she already knows where it'scoming from.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Oh, they talked about that.
Okay, here we go.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
But I also do that at work too.
I think I've become a veryvulnerable person in certain
aspects of here's what I'mworking on, not always like
here's my heart, but here's whatI'm working on.
I do that at work.
My boss knows my coworkers knowchanging language, even to.
I feel like this would behelpful to.
(19:19):
I'm confident this will behelpful.
Or you know, just changingthose words, though I did have a
mix-up at work, because I gotexcited about working with this
person who has way morecredentials and degrees than I
do.
Again, this is my.
I do tie this back to childhoodsomewhat, just because I've
(19:40):
always looked up to people whoseem in control, and the only
way to get them to like me isfor me to point out that they
are better than me.
And I did that at work and Iwas so mad at myself and I
texted you and other people.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But what did I say?
I said you acknowledged it, yes, and now you know yes, and now
going forward and that's thehealing, that's the growth part.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
The whole healing journey, or the definition of
healing, is really identifying,understanding and having the
choice to do something different, and that's something I'm
working on all the time.
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So, before we wrap up , is there anything else you
want people to know about whyhealing is so important?
What are some things they coulddo?
How the Jamie I met six yearsago 2018, something like that is
a different and better versionthan she is today.
(20:37):
And that's the thing is.
We never want to be like I'm sohappy I changed, because we're
never changing, but we're alwaysevolving.
We're always understanding,like how is she different?
Why should people even take thechance of like healing their
things?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, my, my last thought on this is people people
that I have talked to that seemto not have the growth mindset
or are a little moreclosed-minded.
They question why go to therapyor why go through growth?
Why can't you just accept whoyou are and love who you are,
the way you are?
The thing is is, if you're whoyou are but you're not happy
(21:14):
inside, something's eating atyou physically or mentally, or
just not sitting well, it'sinterrupting how you want your
life to be.
There's always an opportunityor way to dig deeper into that.
It doesn't mean you're changingwho you are.
It just means you're choosingto handle things like emotions
or situations or other people'sneeds in a different way that
(21:38):
serves you better.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think it's also so powerful Everything you just
said about just changing andunderstanding and how I handle
and how I deal with there issomething so powerful in seeing
a moment where maybe you wouldnormally lash out or maybe you
would normally say really rudethings to somebody and all of a
sudden you're noticing insideyourself ooh, this is the moment
because I want to handle thingsdifferently.
(22:02):
Yeah, Because we can't changeif we don't change.
So I think that's not justimportant, but really strong and
powerful 100%.
So I appreciate you coming onand sharing.
I know this is not easy, soanyone that comes on and all of
my people in my circle that I'veasked to come on and talk about
things I realize this isn't aneasy thing to do, so thank you.
(22:26):
Thank you for giving the time tome, of course, and to all my
listeners please stay cute, stayloud, maybe check out therapy
and dance, even when everyone iswatching Peace.
Hey, good morning, happy Sunday, welcome back to Go
Ask Sawyer, season 5, in whichI am listening to you.
As I've said before, I havetalked about my story so many
times, but at the end of the day, the best way we learn is from
each other and through eachother's stories.
So today I'm welcoming on JamieHello, jamie, hey, and I have
(00:28):
asked her to think about againsomething in her life that she
has had to heal from, andeveryone that has come on my
podcast has talked aboutdifferent types of ships with
themselves, with family, withloved ones, with exes, even jobs
.
So I'm welcoming Jamie on todayto talk about whatever she felt
(00:51):
like she is healing from or hashealed from.
I'm going to ask her somequestions and I just again
welcome.
Thank you for coming on.
I want to hear your story.
Thank you for having me on.
Oh, okay, this is going to bemusical.
This is what happens when I getnervous I'm not ready.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
This is going to be fun.
It will be Okay.
Jamie, what is something youhave either healed from or you
are still working in the process?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I think I'm constantly working on this, but
I did start this journey acouple years ago when I realized
I was anxious and stressed andfeeling guilt and shame.
But at the time I didn't knowwhat those things were.
I just knew that there wassomething quote unquote wrong
with me.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Can I ask a quick question?
Yes, were there certain momentsin your life when you were
feeling anxious, stressed,ashamed, or were you just
noticing these feelings comingup more often than they had?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I was noticing them because it was coming out in my
relationships, like my marriageor at work, or with friends or
with family.
It was kind of this samereoccurring body feeling and
also people telling me why doyou always feel guilty for this
(02:15):
or why are you always doing this?
And I thought there wassomething wrong with me.
I needed to go to therapy, Ineeded to figure out how to fix
me, because something had to bewrong with me, that things
weren't going right.
So that's really where myjourney started and what I
thought I was healing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I love that and I think that's a very woman
response and I hate to put us ona box because we won't go there
, but I do think automaticallywhen people are asking us, we
think something must be wrong, Imust fix myself, and I think
it's so important to understandthat there is nothing wrong with
us, but we just don'tunderstand where we're coming
(02:57):
from.
So it's not about fixing, it'sabout understanding and seeing
and realizing and being and likeholding ourselves yes.
So first question I have foryou is before we get into the
event or person or whatever itis, what does healing look like
for you?
Like how has it felt?
What does it look like For me?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
healing has been a journey.
It's been a practice.
It's been understanding,identifying emotions that I'm
having and figuring out what todo with them, which is something
I work on every day.
I don't think there's I'm ahealed, this is a I'm, and I
(03:38):
don't even know if healing isreally the right word.
It's how do I rewire my thoughtprocess?
How do I restructure how Ihandle my emotions?
How do I rewire my thoughtprocess?
How do I restructure how Ihandle my emotions?
How do I identify them and thenhow do I work through them in a
healthy way?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I really love that, like practicing the pause when I
feel this, when this emotion iscoming up.
It's not about like, oh, wegotta fix it, but like, wait,
what is this telling me that isso scary?
I don't know about you, butlike it is scary to sit in that,
whatever that emotion is,without being like, oh, I
quickly need to push this down,I need to fix it, I need to move
(04:13):
forward, I need to put on thisbrave face and instead thinking
like I'm going to sit with thisfor a second.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, I think the biggest part in that for me was
identifying and being able toseparate my emotions from those
around me, because somethingthat I worked through a couple
years ago in therapy, especiallydoing EMDR, is that my emotions
are different than the person'semotion across from me.
(04:41):
I don't have to absorb theirs.
I get to have separate emotionsand I get to have separate
feelings and separateexperiences and I didn't realize
that almost my entire life,that I didn't do that, I didn't
validate that for myself.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I didn't validate that for myself, that is if I
remember.
I'd love to come back to that.
Okay, but could you talk aboutwhat you have currently been
healing, working on, fromwhether it's a person, situation
, whatever that is?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Sure.
So, like I said before, Ithought I was going to fix me,
which obviously therapy is aboutme if I'm going to therapy but
to dig into what I need to do tofix myself.
But really, what we ended upworking through is figuring out
when did I first start havingthese feelings, what moment,
(05:30):
what scenario happened so that,through the EMDR, we were able
to put me back in that place toidentify what was really
happening.
And I think that was thebiggest moment for me to realize
that there's nothing to fixabout me.
I'm not a bad person.
(05:52):
I'm not like.
I don't need to feel all thisguilt.
It helped me realize that therewere more players at the table
in scenarios than just mecontrolling everything that
needed to happen.
For example, in childhood,growing up in the family, I had
very loving parents, alwaysshowing us love, but they didn't
(06:14):
always have the capacity tounderstand that, outside of what
they were going through, theirchildren were going through
other things and I hadresentment, I had anger, I had
disappointment.
Once I started realizing thatthose things caused trauma.
I guess in me I didn't have atraumatic childhood where I was
(06:37):
abused or something crazyhappened.
My parents loved me.
It wasn't that it was more ofwhat they were doing, instilled
things in me that I don't thinkthey realized, nor did I realize
that that's where those thingscame from.
So it gave me the ability tosee it from a different lens and
give them grace, give myselfgrace and understand that my
(06:59):
parents and the family you know,my family around me really were
just doing the best, that theyhad the tools to do the best
with.
You know, if that makes sense,that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
That makes sense.
So you were feeling stress andanxiety.
How did that connect back to,we'll just say, childhood, like
in the EMDR, which, I'm so sorry, fans and the people?
I forgot what that stands for.
Do you remember what it standsfor?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Eye movement repetitives.
I forgot what that stands for.
Do you remember what it standsfor Eye movement Repetitive?
I don't know.
It's Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I have done it in therapy and it does take you to
places where it is like emotions, like it is.
You didn't know the emotionswere there, right, until all of
a sudden you're there and nowyou're crying and you're like
why is this happening?
So the anxiety and stress youwere feeling in your adulthood,
in your relationships, how didthat stem back to childhood?
(07:50):
Like, did you figure that out?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So I figured that out in therapy because anytime
there were people around me thatwere going through something it
was, I've just always been putin and put myself in the role of
something's unsafe.
It's my responsibility to fixit.
And I'm not unsafe, likephysically, but somebody is
(08:13):
upset.
What can I do to fix it?
If I can't fix it, thensomething's wrong with me.
Why can't I help them?
Why can't I make them happy?
I took ownership of all of thatand growing up in a household
with alcoholism and kind of thatwhole scene that's really.
Some people like myself becomethe caretaker, the person to be,
(08:35):
like I got you, I'm going tofix this, you're going to be
okay, and there's alwayssomething going on.
There's always some uncertaintyand the more I get close to
people and I understand them andI hear them and I feel them, I
lose myself, because that'swhere I have learned, through
what has happened in childhood.
(08:57):
My value is tied to how happyor comfortable or safe I can
make people feel.
And that's when doing EMDR andgoing through the different big
moments in my life that I neededto revisit.
I realized what I was doingtoday was because of what
happened then and I could handleit in a better way.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That is a lot to take on, though, okay.
So I do want to ask you how doyou before I ask you this, but
I'm going to ask you so you canthink on it for a second how do
you find value in yourself now,compared to maybe how you did?
But also like, what load didthat take off your shoulders, if
any?
To be like I don't have to fixall of you.
(09:41):
I have also been a fixer in manysituations, and it is such a
load to carry that I finallyrealized no one asked me to
carry except me, which, once Irealized that I was like what is
wrong with me Now?
What is wrong with me?
And like what is wrong with me?
But I was like I am no one'sasking me to fix them.
(10:05):
No one is asking me to carrythis stress.
I'm just doing it because Iwant them to see my value, I
want them to see how great I am,or I feel like I have to, or
everything's going to fall apart, which then I asked myself like
so what if everything fallsapart?
I didn't cause the chaos in thefirst place and again, all the
suitcases to unpack.
(10:25):
You can either answer how doyou see your value now, or find
value in relationships now,without fixing people or taking
on stress.
Or and did anything?
Get lifted off your shouldersonce you realized you didn't
have to be that person.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
The weight coming off my shoulders is per scenario,
per experience.
Still today, it's something I'mworking on, but when I can
actually separate ownership ofwhat someone else is going
through versus how I can handleit or what I'm going through, it
does lift a big weight off, andthe way that I work to do that
(11:04):
is to create space, to make surethat that person has space.
I don't need to always havesomething to say, I don't need
to always offer advice.
I think you and I were eventalking one time and we were
having a conversation and Iasked you.
I tried to make space by askingyou do you want my advice or do
you want me to just listen?
Like being able to do thatstops my mind from spinning of
(11:27):
the seven scenarios that I haveto go through to figure out how
to help you feel better, becausethat's not my responsibility to
make you feel better, but, asyour friend, it's my
responsibility to support you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And same in all other relationships in my life.
So real quick, can I ask is itscary Because we only know of?
I feel valued when I can fix,when I can help, when I can give
advice, if I'm like trying toextend my help and the other
person is like I don't want it.
Or when you stop and realize,dang, no one is asking for this.
You know when, like you say infriendships, like stop texting
and stop calling and see whoactually shows up, and then all
(12:07):
of a sudden you realize like twopeople keep showing up and no
one else is and you're like,okay, I was carrying that.
Like is there any fear behindthat?
Once I do pull back, are peoplegoing to value me the same?
And when I say people, I meaneither jobs, ships, whatever
that is Like is there any fearthere?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
There is fear.
There is fear with losing peoplewho matter to me.
I'm not sure how much I matterto them.
I think the bigger fear to metoday is if I lose you because I
didn't fix you or I didn't putin the effort, is it because I
overcorrected something I wastrying to fix, or is it truly
(12:48):
you just weren't supposed tostay there because I was done
lifting the weight?
I'm still trying to work out.
That's definitely something Italk about in therapy even today
, because a lot of my fear istied to me failing, and I think
where I create more chaos in myhead about failing is I will
always come up with four toseven scenarios in my head and I
(13:12):
need to slow down, give peopleautonomy to be and react however
they want to react without metrying to fix it.
So that's a big lesson in thisand how I take the weight off of
my shoulders and also thattakes the weight off of the
other person, because I'm notprojecting all of my thoughts
and fears onto them.
(13:32):
I'm letting them just be andgive them the space to be.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Don't you also think by like, letting people, what is
it, the whole let them theory?
Right, by letting people justbe and not interfering and not
fixing, you're kind of allowing,like you're allowing yourself
to finally see where they wantyou in their life.
And I mean, I know for methat's scary.
And it's scary in the fact ofbecause all my listeners know I
(13:58):
struggle with choose me, thechoose me attachment.
But I do worry that once I stoplike who's showing up for me,
who's letting me fall back, whowants my advice, who wants to be
in my presence without anythingelse from me so I know my
(14:18):
choose me part comes out.
But I think the more I'm ableto like, let go of that and
realize, the more I choose me,even if it feels selfish to
other people, like I don't evenwant to help you handle that, I
don't even want to help you fixthis mess, because this is not
my, this is not my drama, thisis not my circus the more I am
(14:39):
choosing peace so hard.
Maybe some people are startingto fall back and, yeah, certain
things hurt, but I feel like I'mstarting to overcome that.
I need to fix.
I need to fix and the peoplethat want the advice, that are
like, hey, I need you to help me, are reaching out and I'm like
holy cow, you do value me, youdo want this from me.
(15:01):
Or even just like you want tohang out with me because you
enjoy my friendship and you wantnothing else.
You don't need me to fix you,you don't need this, you don't
need that, you don't needanything else, you just want me,
which is a very differentfeeling, because I know you and
I have talked about like ourupbringing and I don't know,
have you experienced that Likewhere someone is like just like,
(15:22):
I just want to be in yourpresence.
I don't want you to do anything.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I don't even know if I've been aware of that yet, but
that feels like something Ishould start thinking more about
, I think right now I'm so in myhead on trying to control
what's happening upstairs here.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
So now Jamie can't control other people, she's
going to control herself.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I can't control the whole situation anymore.
I don't have the mentalcapacity for that anymore, but
I'm really trying to stay out ofassuming what other people.
Yeah, but that's an interestingthought, like I've never really
thought, like just payingattention.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Just pay attention to who shows up and wants to just
like hang out.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, I've never looked at it that way because
I'm always trying to figure outhow I'm showing up for other
people, like, am I doing enoughfor the people so they know I
want them in my life?
I've never looked the mirrorthe other way.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely your next
suitcase to look at.
Yeah, I like suitcases, I wantto look at them.
So you looked at stuff in yourchildhood.
You're working on that.
You're going to therapy EMDRspecifically.
I'd love to know what othertools do you have, because I
talk a lot about journaling, Italk about going for walks, I
(16:41):
talk about, you know, exercise,eating, well, like, we all have
different things in our toolbox,and the self-care movement, the
self-love movement, is anall-time high.
What tools do you have thateither A help you with your
healing, or B, when you arestuck, when your past self is
trying to pull you back, whenyou're like, whoa, how can I get
(17:02):
out of this?
Or I know what's happening, Ineed to get out.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Tools that I have.
I will write things down.
I don't have a constant journal, but something that I I mean
you are following my journals.
I'm kidding, you follow thejournal, kidding, kidding,
kidding.
However, when I feel stuck, orI need to get past something, or
I need to pull something out ofthe toolbox, I will type out a
(17:27):
letter to whomever or myself, orjust ranting and get it all out
, because the messiest place inthe world is in my head and
that's where all my confusionand anxiety you know everybody's
is up in their noggin.
But I type it all out and thenI delete it.
Otherwise, another tool that Ihave is and I didn't realize
(17:49):
this was a tool or a strengthuntil my therapist told me it
was but two people I know I canbe vulnerable for.
I just spit out all theinformation my wife.
I'll just say this is somethingI'm working on and I think I
feel here, or I think I could dothis better, or this is
something I'm struggling with.
I just say the things out loud.
I think doing that, instead ofkeeping it in my head, is the
(18:12):
best tool for me that I can pullout of the toolbox.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Do you, when you say that stuff to her, do you
preface it with?
I need you to say this, Like,does she know you're saying it
to get it out of your brain?
So, like she supports you in.
Like okay, Jamie is going tosay a bunch of things and then
we're going to work throughwhatever we have to.
And is that scary?
Because I feel like that'd bereally scary for me.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
It is scary, but the most helpful thing that she does
is after I have a therapysession, she asks me how therapy
goes.
Therapy went, how.
What I had to talk about, likehow it went what my therapist
said, you know all the things.
She's curious about it so thatwhen I do randomly bring things
up she already knows where it'scoming from.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Oh, they talked about that.
Okay, here we go.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
But I also do that at work too.
I think I've become a veryvulnerable person in certain
aspects of here's what I'mworking on, not always like
here's my heart, but here's whatI'm working on.
I do that at work.
My boss knows my coworkers knowchanging language, even to.
I feel like this would behelpful to.
(19:19):
I'm confident this will behelpful.
Or you know, just changingthose words, though I did have a
mix-up at work, because I gotexcited about working with this
person who has way morecredentials and degrees than I
do.
Again, this is my.
I do tie this back to childhoodsomewhat, just because I've
(19:40):
always looked up to people whoseem in control, and the only
way to get them to like me isfor me to point out that they
are better than me.
And I did that at work and Iwas so mad at myself and I
texted you and other people.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But what did I say?
I said you acknowledged it, yes, and now you know yes, and now
going forward and that's thehealing, that's the growth part.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
The whole healing journey, or the definition of
healing, is really identifying,understanding and having the
choice to do something different, and that's something I'm
working on all the time.
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So, before we wrap up , is there anything else you
want people to know about whyhealing is so important?
What are some things they coulddo?
How the Jamie I met six yearsago 2018, something like that is
a different and better versionthan she is today.
(20:37):
And that's the thing is.
We never want to be like I'm sohappy I changed, because we're
never changing, but we're alwaysevolving.
We're always understanding,like how is she different?
Why should people even take thechance of like healing their
things?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, my, my last thought on this is people people
that I have talked to that seemto not have the growth mindset
or are a little moreclosed-minded.
They question why go to therapyor why go through growth?
Why can't you just accept whoyou are and love who you are,
the way you are?
The thing is is, if you're whoyou are but you're not happy
(21:14):
inside, something's eating atyou physically or mentally, or
just not sitting well, it'sinterrupting how you want your
life to be.
There's always an opportunityor way to dig deeper into that.
It doesn't mean you're changingwho you are.
It just means you're choosingto handle things like emotions
or situations or other people'sneeds in a different way that
(21:38):
serves you better.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think it's also so powerful Everything you just
said about just changing andunderstanding and how I handle
and how I deal with there issomething so powerful in seeing
a moment where maybe you wouldnormally lash out or maybe you
would normally say really rudethings to somebody and all of a
sudden you're noticing insideyourself ooh, this is the moment
because I want to handle thingsdifferently.
(22:02):
Yeah, Because we can't changeif we don't change.
So I think that's not justimportant, but really strong and
powerful 100%.
So I appreciate you coming onand sharing.
I know this is not easy, soanyone that comes on and all of
my people in my circle that I'veasked to come on and talk about
things I realize this isn't aneasy thing to do, so thank you.
(22:26):
Thank you for giving the time tome, of course, and to all my
listeners please stay cute, stayloud, maybe check out therapy
and dance, even when everyone iswatching Peace.
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