February 17, 2025 • 28 mins
Join host Becca Golden and her friend Madeline as they discuss overcoming limiting beliefs, the importance of encouragement in friendships, and the value of direct communication. They delve into conversations about challenging social norms, pursuing one's dreams, handling social invitations, and breaking free from judgment. The conversation touches on their personal journeys, dealing with social obligations, and Madeline's upcoming health journey.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Golden Girl, a space where we dive deep into health, healing, connection, and
(00:06):
community.
I'm your host, Becca Golden, and this podcast is all about sharing and documenting my journey.
Each episode, we'll discuss topics like health and wellness, what I'm learning in therapy,
work-life balance, relationships, community, and all the ways I strive for more aliveness
and presence every day.
Let's dive in.
(00:29):
This podcast episode is an impromptu episode because Madeline came over today just to chat
and say hello.
Over and over, we keep thinking after having great conversations, we keep asking, why didn't
we record that?
We should have recorded that for the podcast.
Here we go.
Today, we were like, wait, wait, wait, let's record.
We actually had a great conversation beforehand that you missed, but then we recorded and
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had more great conversation that we recorded.
You'll hear that now.
We were talking about, like I said, when I was a kid, if someone asked me what I wanted
to be when I grew up, I might say the WNBA.
Everyone would say, oh, great, you should go for that.
You should go and play youth basketball and practice and dribble and all those things.
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That was a message that was told to me that even at the time, I think I found a little
bit silly, but that was certainly the Pursuier Dreams messaging was instilled in me.
At an early age.
Which is the exact opposite of what was instilled in me, which was anytime I expressed interest
in anything, I was basically told not to be interested in that thing or told that it
(01:40):
wasn't realistic.
I loved singing when I was young and I wanted to audition for stuff and my mom would tell
me, like-
No.
She would say no and she would say that you're just going to get disappointed.
She would tell me no.
I think that kind of mentality really shaped a lot of my inner narratives that I'm now
(02:03):
trying to unlearn because in my head, I've always heard this voice that's like-
You're not good enough.
You're going to be disappointed.
You're not good enough.
But inside myself deep down, what I hear more loudly now is my voice that I've always had
that always pushed to allow me to do these things.
Even though I have this narrative that I've learned that's all limiting beliefs, it's
(02:27):
entirely every single thing is limiting, limiting, limiting.
You're not going to do that.
It's not worth it.
Why bother?
Why do-
In my head though, I hear and I always spot back and I would always say, well, I don't
care.
Well, the first thing is it makes me sad because I am not a mother.
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So I cannot imagine what mothers go through and how they have to raise their children,
let alone their daughters.
But telling anyone that they're not enough or not good enough to try something is always
the wrong message.
It's the wrong message.
The attitude should be you have a goal, you have a dream, let's try it.
(03:10):
Let's try it.
Let's see what happens.
And if it fails miserably, at least we tried and I think not trying something is worse,
way worse.
It's funny because I think my mom generally would encourage us to.
But there's one big thing that she put the kibosh on that in hindsight is fine, but she
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went to an elite university.
And I thought for fun, I'm going to apply there too.
My mom went there.
I want to study engineering and I'm a girl, which makes me a unique candidate.
Why don't I try?
She said, don't do it.
She said, this application costs $90.
That's too much money considering you're probably not going to get in.
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So I didn't apply.
And I still regret it because who cares if I threw that $90 down the drain.
At least I tried.
I think trying always matters.
And if you think that you want to try something, you should try it.
And if it keeps coming back in your brain, especially for singing, something like singing
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is a really interesting thing to tell someone not to do because it makes you feel good.
It's something that feels fun.
And so to not try something that feels fun is just really sad to me.
I'm not a talented singer, so I don't feel the urge to sing very often.
But if I did, I'd want to do it.
And that's, yeah, to respond to the first part, the concept of if you want to do something,
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try it.
Try it.
This is one of my favorite things about you as a friend is over the course of knowing me
over what did we say it is, like eight years, I've had all sorts of ideas.
This being one of them, the podcast.
Here we are.
I'm like, I'm going to try a podcast.
You're like, great, love it.
Let's do it.
But I've had all sorts of other ideas of things that I've wanted to try.
(05:01):
And you have.
And I've done them.
And every time I bring them up to you, you have never judged me.
You have never made me feel stupid.
You have never had any doubt.
You always have the most enthusiastic, supportive answer.
Even if it's a crazy thing, you're like, cool.
Or even if I think it's dumb, half the time you'd have these ideas, I'm like, I would
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never want to do that.
But if Becca wants to build a concrete table, it's okay.
I'll hold the camera or I'll saw the song with you, like to do some dumb project that
I think is silly.
I still think it's worth supporting.
And you do support it.
You do help me with the song and all the things.
And I love that because I've never been afraid to tell you anything.
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I've never been afraid to show up as completely authentically myself.
You have always given me full permission to be 100% of myself around you, not just permission,
but encouragement.
And I think that's the only environment that people can really grow and thrive.
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And that is the opposite of what I got growing up.
I was given the exact opposite treatment.
Not from both parents.
My dad was very, very encouraging of me.
I wanted to dye my hair pink in high school.
Not all of it, but the underneath half.
So it was like half and half.
And I thought it would be cool.
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Well, first it was blue.
I wanted the blue.
And I thought it would be cool.
My mom was horrified.
Of course.
She was like, absolutely not.
You're not going to do that.
My dad was like, why not?
It's not a tattoo.
It's not permanent.
Yeah.
So like whatever.
Did you do it?
Yeah, I did it.
Great.
Was it ridiculous?
No, it was fine.
Oh, good.
And then I did all the colors.
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I did blue, I did pink.
And like my friends and I, we were all doing it together.
It was like a fun thing.
It was a little harmless form of self-expression.
I don't even want to think about the toxins right now.
But whatever.
It was temporary.
It was self-expression.
It made me feel a little bit different and it wasn't permanent.
So my upbringing was very different, but I think that's why your friendship has always
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been such an effortless thing for me and reaching out to you for help or support or just to
tell you what's going on.
I've never shied away from updating you on all the crazy ideas of things that I have
and projects that I have or passions that I'm exploring because you're so supportive.
Well, and I think judgment from parents is something we sort of expect.
(07:30):
Let's just say that judgment from parents is maybe, I don't want to say acceptable,
but it's commonplace.
Judgment from friends, I find worse because if I'm your friend, I'm voluntarily spending
time with you.
I'm voluntarily bringing you into my life.
And so if I'm just going to judge you, that doesn't serve you or me.
So I think if you're spending time with people voluntarily that are in your peer group that
(07:52):
are passing judgment on you, no bueno.
Well, and you've experienced that.
Yeah.
I think that when I think about it now, I want to spend, when I strive to spend time
with people that don't treat me that way, that respect me and appreciate me for who
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I am and try to encourage me to be a good person and a better person.
And experiencing judgment is not good.
And I have some friends now and they're really close and they're having a little bit of a
rift over feeling, yeah, judged by each other and it's really bad feeling.
Putting an effort a lot to one person, always initiating the effort.
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At first you may not recognize it that I'm the one saying, hey, let's get lunch.
Hey, let's get coffee.
Hey, let's go for a walk.
And you're never inviting me to these things.
Sometimes you don't notice the power dynamic, but once you do, it feels bad.
It starts to think, does this person want to spend time with me or do they just accept
(08:54):
spending time with me or are they just too afraid to say no to spend time with me, which
is even worse?
I have a good friend who we would, I would see her sporadically and I initiated it every
time, but at least every time she said, hey, I appreciate you reaching out.
I'm so happy we're hanging out.
Frankly, I recently kind of waned in initiating things, but she texted me out of the blue
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and said, happy new year.
I know I haven't been reaching out as much.
You're still really important to me.
I'm going to try to be better.
And I was like, that goes a really long way.
I have sent a text similar to that.
It wasn't on the new year, but there's this person that I've been wanting to be better
friends with.
She's so wonderful.
I've done a few yoga classes with her and we catch up here and there, but we've both
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been busy and there were a few times where I texted her and I just said, hey, I'm thinking
of you.
I've been so busy or I'm feeling really antisocial lately, so I don't want to make plans, but
I just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you.
And when I'm feeling up for it, I would love to spend time together.
And she sent a text back and she was like, this was the best text ever.
She was like, thank you so much.
(10:01):
She even said, I should send these texts to people more often.
I never really thought about doing that.
And when I saw her in person, she said this too.
She was like, that meant so much to me because it was no pressure, but I knew that you were
interested in continuing the friendship.
And she was like, I was also really busy, so it was the perfect way to go about it.
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I think a text like that goes a long way.
And I feel like there was a time in our friendship where you had reached out a number of times
to make plans with me and every single time couldn't do it.
And I do remember telling you at some point, thank you so much for every invitation.
I want to say yes to the next one.
This is something that I appreciate a lot.
And I think that's the irony about our friendship is I never felt, every time I was just like,
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okay, Ben, you can't go.
Moving on.
You've never thought that that would cause me to not want to invite you to something
in the future ever.
Is that what?
What is it about me?
Well, I mean, that's a good question.
It's just like, just because something doesn't work out one time doesn't mean you shouldn't
try again.
(11:04):
Yeah, but there were like seven times in a row.
So why is it that somebody else who did that, you got the vibe that they are sick of you?
Are sick of you?
Because you would never say no.
But it never occurred.
You would never say like, I'm saying no because I don't want to be with you.
This isn't going to work out for me right now.
But there will be a time that it will work out and it will be fun.
(11:24):
And so like, okay, I'll just wait for that time.
But I think that is actually a good point to bring up or to dive in on.
Because how do you know if you should keep trying?
Or does it feel good when you get rejected?
How do you feel when you get rejected?
Because when you would say no, I can't, I'm so sorry.
I'd be like, okay, I always knew it was no pressure.
It never made me feel bad.
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But with other people when they say no, it would feel not hurtful, but closer to hurtful.
I think the reason for that is because you know where we stand.
And for me, if I am making effort with somebody to spend time with them or continue the relationship
of some capacity, I am putting in the effort.
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That's a bit of vulnerability.
It's like, okay, I'm showing you that I am interested in spending time together.
And then if that's not reciprocated and there's no statement made about where they're at,
then you are just left out there.
Like, okay, I've made this effort.
I'm stepping out onto a limb and you just said no, but you didn't give me anything to
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hold onto.
So now I'm just on this limb.
And then if you want me to step out onto the limb again and you still don't give me any
feedback, then I'm just on this limb again.
And if you don't have enough self-confidence or if you're invested so much in this other
person's response that that exceeds your own confidence in yourself, then that could lead
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to you starting to question things.
So like, does this person not want to spend time with me?
Does this person hate me?
Am I this or that?
And sometimes I can feel an inkling of those thoughts depending on the person and depending
on what the situation is.
But sometimes I don't feel that at all.
Sometimes I just ask and if they say no, then I'm like, okay, I'll just go about my day.
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And I think over time, I just don't really care as much anymore.
Like, I don't even ask the question because I don't care.
Sure.
I do like me great if they don't like me, whatever.
But I think before I didn't have as much, I don't know if confidence isn't the right
word, but I wasn't as comfortable with who I was.
I was looking for validation.
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That's what it is.
I was looking for validation from other people.
External validation.
And so in asking someone to go and do something with me, the rejection of that would be an
element of external validation or invalidation.
Unless they said, I would have loved to please reach out again.
This didn't work out this time, but I really enjoyed it.
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Why would I need all that validation?
And you really shouldn't.
And so now I think I need that less.
Yeah.
I finally got my thought out.
It's a good one.
But I think it's sort of nuanced because if someone says no, and I want to take out this
in person versus via text because via text nuance is completely lost.
But if you're with a person, particularly someone you don't know very well, or if it's
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someone maybe you have a romantic interest in, communicating interests or disinterest
is really hard.
And it can be explicit by saying, like, hey, I like you.
I want to keep saying time with you.
But if someone isn't that explicit or if someone doesn't want to say, speak their feelings,
they want to show their feelings.
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If the other person can't receive that body language, it's really tricky.
And I think for me, in general, I appreciate really direct communication, but it's not
I don't always receive direct communication from people.
So I have to be reading between the lines, which is not one of my strong suits.
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So while seeking external validation is one component of this, really being able to understand
what the message people are trying to send you is not always simple.
It's not straightforward.
I'm the exact same way.
I love direct feedback.
If it's a romantic thing, I love when someone says, I really like you.
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I would like to go on a date with you.
That's great.
Because then I can either say, I like you too.
I would like to go on that date or I can say, you seem great, but I'm not interested in
going on the date.
It's so easy.
And then it's all hashed out right then and there.
But if somebody is just trying to send signals my way, I'm not receiving those signals.
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There is no way.
I don't pick up on little signals and games and stuff.
I'm not reading between the lines.
If you reach out and you're like, hey, I saw this thing and you send me that, I'm like,
okay.
I saw the thing.
I'm like, thanks for sending.
I'm not like, oh, he's thinking of me.
Oh my gosh, I got the text.
I'm just like, oh, the thing.
Okay.
(16:04):
Cool.
Move on with my life.
I'm the same way.
In with friends too.
I have a question for you because I want to know what you do in this situation.
You meet somebody.
It's someone who really likes climbing because you like climbing and you're talking with
them and you're like, this person, oh my God.
You're annoyed with them.
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They love to climb.
They're trying to get out of the conversation.
They are having the best time and you're like, oh, look, I got to, whatever you do to get
out of the conversation, they say, we should hang out sometime.
What do you say?
And you think they really want to hang out?
They want to hang out.
They think you're so cool.
They're like, she climbs, I climb.
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They don't have a lot of friends.
What do you say?
It's such a good question because I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that I'm
actually going to want to spend time with this person.
The chances of that happening are slim or if I do see this person, it's out of regret.
So I don't, I want to tell myself, I don't think that I would actually say like, oh
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my gosh, yeah, here's my number, but I'm also not going to give them a fake number.
I'm not that catty.
I would say, this sounds unrealistic, but my instinct to say it was really nice hanging
out with you and chatting, but I don't really have time right now to see what the rock gym
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that I already am going to all the time.
Like, I don't know.
That's really, it's a hard one because my instinct is to, is to shut it down.
I just don't know how I would do that in a polite way off the top of my head.
Has that happened to you recently?
Do you have to shut people down?
That happens to me all the time.
But oh really?
Yeah.
But I never know how to deal with it.
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I will never, ever say, yeah, totally, we should.
Or if it's somebody who already has my number and we run into each other out and about,
I think some people when they say goodbye, they want us to just say, we should hang out
more or like, we should get together.
We should do a happy hour or whatever.
And I think the expectation is that you're supposed to just say, oh my gosh, yeah.
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I will never.
Good.
To me, that's the equivalent of laughing at a stand up comedy show that's not funny,
which I also will not do.
I will go to a stand up comedy show.
And frown.
Yes.
Because I'm disappointed that they're not funny.
Yes.
I will do that.
And people are like, come on, just laugh.
No.
I'm like, no.
I am not here to perform my laughter for you.
In the same regard, I will not play along and say, yeah, totally, we should hang out
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because I don't want to.
I will never do that.
I will never.
Out of principle.
I have a good story about this then because I'm the same way as you.
I'm not going to say it unless I mean it.
Hey, we should actually see each other again.
I'm only saying that if I actually want to spend time with someone.
Okay.
My sister got married a handful of years ago.
Her husband's brother.
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So I have no relation to him.
Yes.
Lived in Philadelphia at the time.
And I don't know how this conversation happened, but he might have said something like, oh,
if you're ever in Philadelphia, let me know.
I have his last words because I was like, oh, I have no reason to go to Philadelphia, but
that would be fun.
That sounds cool.
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I booked a trip to Philadelphia over Labor Day and was like, hey, I'm in town.
Can I stay on your couch?
Like I went full send and it was so fun.
I spent most of the time on my own.
I stayed in the hostel.
I entertained myself.
But yeah, if you don't mean what you're saying, I'm just going to bite you because I'm taking
it to heart.
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I'm so glad that you did that.
This is another example.
So I know a lot of people in New York, and every time I've had a friend who moves to New
York, they're like, let me know when you're in New York next time.
No, I'm not going to do that.
And so usually I'll say, well, I go to New York a lot.
I'm probably not going to reach out to you.
I say that.
I love that.
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I say that because do you want to see these people or not real?
Realistically, sometimes, yeah.
But I know so many people in New York and then all my customers from work are in New York.
So I go to New York pretty regularly.
My sister's there.
I have a handful of best friends, like friends of mine who are so near and dear to my heart
who live there, plus then all these other people who are like, friends, I could spend
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time with them.
But even in between, there's a whole spectrum.
And then there's people that I barely know.
And then I have a lot of cousins there.
There's so many people in New York that no matter how many times I go, there is no way
that I'm going to see everybody.
But I will say I've been really proud of myself for this.
And every time I do go, I do manage to grab dinner with a different friend of mine that
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I didn't get to see the time before.
But when someone says, let me know when you're in New York next time, I'm not going to be
like, yeah, for sure.
Honestly, this is what I say.
I say, honestly, there are so many people in New York that I have been meaning to see
and every time I go, I don't have time to see them.
And if that changes, I will let you know.
I think that candidness is so refreshing because here's on the flip side.
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If I ran into someone when I was back home in Chicago and they said, hey, when you're
in Austin, let me know.
If they did come to Austin and they didn't let me know, I would feel offended.
I would be like they came all the way to my city and didn't want to hang out.
So the fact that you say I don't, I probably won't let you know is truthful because I think
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if people come here that I may want to spend time with and they don't reach out, I, maybe
this is a little unreasonable, but I get a little hurt.
It is reasonable to feel whatever you feel.
I'm validating your feelings.
Thank you.
If you feel hurt and also good for you for feeling a feeling with you.
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You're feeling the feeling.
Back to where we were though.
Let me just validate your feelings because you're allowed to feel hurt.
You're allowed to feel whatever it is that you're feeling.
I will also say that I have a very different take on that topic.
When people come and visit Austin, people that I know come to Austin and they don't
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reach out to me and I find out I do not care at all.
I'm like, I totally understand.
I think about the times that I go to New York and I don't reach out to anyone.
Any time I find, because this happens a lot, people visit Austin all the time, especially
for like bachelorette parties where obviously you're on a, so anytime, anytime, I'm like,
I find out that any, even if it's a best friend, any friend of mine, if I find out that they
(22:36):
were in Austin and didn't tell me, I do not care.
I don't care because I would hate for someone to put the pressure on me to reach out to
them.
Like also I just know people who are all in like the same cities and traveling is already
stressful enough for me at the moment, but to them put pressure on this to like, you
have to see everybody and plan it all out.
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Like, I would never want someone to feel obligated to reach out to me because they're in my city.
Sure.
And so I find out all the time that people were here and didn't tell me and I'm like,
yeah, that's totally fine with me.
I do not care.
And usually it's like, oh, they were here for a work conference and it was impossible
to get away.
Yeah.
But I really, I don't, it doesn't bother me at all because I'm not, I think here's,
(23:17):
here's why it doesn't bother me is because I assume that the reason they didn't reach
out has nothing to do with me.
Because it doesn't.
Right.
Well, I mean, hopefully.
Maybe they're like, oh, Becca Golden lives in Austin.
Like, I'm avoiding her.
Let me go visit and not tell her.
Like that just seems crazy to me.
So anytime I go to any other city, the last thing on my mind is all the people who live
(23:43):
there that I should probably go see.
And maybe that's just a me thing, but I think that's a refreshing take.
I just don't, I don't care if people don't want to see me fine or if they just didn't
think about it.
Also fine.
Yeah.
I assume I didn't cross their mind at all.
You know, this is an interesting thing though.
I feel like maybe it strikes a chord with me and I need to think about it more because
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on the surface, spending time with people when they visit your city or like feeling obligated
to see people that you aren't really close with anymore when you visit a place like it's
pretty benign.
But it's something that at least in the past has taken up a lot of mental like I thought
about it a lot.
And I wonder why like I could think about it because maybe now not as much, I'm not as
(24:29):
like sensitive to these things, but definitely in the past it was something that I thought
about more.
Why do you think now you're not as sensitive to it?
My first reaction is to say I'm more self-centered now, but I don't think that that feeling self-centered
answers that question because normally I'd say I want to do just what I want to do in
(24:50):
that day.
Like if I'm going home for a week, I'll be home and I'm way more content just spending
time at my parents house, which in the past I would be like, get me out of here.
I want to see my friends like I don't want to sit on the couch and watch TV with my parents
five nights in a row because I don't.
But I'll do it now.
(25:11):
I'll do it way more now because I'm like, it's such a burden to go out.
But in the past, it was fun.
It was like the right burden.
And I really am an extrovert at heart and definitely in my ages zero to 30, I was a
hardcore extrovert.
(25:31):
And so I wanted to be with people.
I wanted to be with my friends.
It made my life great and being at home was boring.
But now I have a fulfilling friendship world here in Austin.
I don't need to be gravitating and like sucking every extroverted moment out of my life at
all times anymore.
(25:53):
But it's a good question.
We're wrapping things up.
We're wrapping things up.
I would like to wrap it up by Madeline.
Tell us why you have to go and where you're about to go to.
Well, I'll just give some background.
It is a Thursday afternoon.
I was doing work at my house and decided to pop over to Becca's take a little seven minute
walk, came, hung out, chatted.
(26:15):
I'm going back home to have my session with Telysa.
Telysa is Becca's renowned functional medicine practitioner.
Functional medicine practitioner.
I think that's how I say it.
And I am also embarking on my health journey with Telysa, which has been very recent.
I just hardly started, but we're going to be reviewing my hair tissue mineral analysis
(26:41):
in 30 minutes.
So can't wait.
And you know, we'll talk all about that in future episodes for you, I'm sure.
So yeah, that's why I get to go home and learn all the things.
And I'm so excited for her.
The Madeline is the third person that I've convinced to do this hair tissue mineral analysis
as of the recording date of this episode.
(27:02):
So by the time you listen to it, there could be thousands.
That's right.
And I'll also start by saying like, in general, I consider my health and wellness pretty good,
but there's still a lot of things in this test with the results that are either things
I didn't expect, things I didn't even know existed.
Like even if you feel good, things can be working.
(27:23):
I'm not trying to be a fear monger, but like I'm excited to learn more about what your
body is doing, even if you don't know how to interpret what it's telling you.
Because I think we're going to talk a lot in the future about what does it mean?
What does your body tell you?
How do you listen to the signals your body is creating?
(27:43):
Because we both have very different journeys of the spectrum of what that means.
And I think every person really has a unique answer to what does it mean to listen to your
body?
And I think this tissue analysis is the first step on knowing what that looks like.
I'm so excited for you.
And we got to wrap it up because it's snowing out, maybe sleeting out, and I got to go find
(28:08):
a jacket so I can walk Madeline home.
Yay.
Thank you.
Welcome to Golden Girl, a space where we dive deep into health, healing, connection, and
(00:06):
community.
I'm your host, Becca Golden, and this podcast is all about sharing and documenting my journey.
Each episode, we'll discuss topics like health and wellness, what I'm learning in therapy,
work-life balance, relationships, community, and all the ways I strive for more aliveness
and presence every day.
Let's dive in.
(00:29):
This podcast episode is an impromptu episode because Madeline came over today just to chat
and say hello.
Over and over, we keep thinking after having great conversations, we keep asking, why didn't
we record that?
We should have recorded that for the podcast.
Here we go.
Today, we were like, wait, wait, wait, let's record.
We actually had a great conversation beforehand that you missed, but then we recorded and
(00:53):
had more great conversation that we recorded.
You'll hear that now.
We were talking about, like I said, when I was a kid, if someone asked me what I wanted
to be when I grew up, I might say the WNBA.
Everyone would say, oh, great, you should go for that.
You should go and play youth basketball and practice and dribble and all those things.
(01:16):
That was a message that was told to me that even at the time, I think I found a little
bit silly, but that was certainly the Pursuier Dreams messaging was instilled in me.
At an early age.
Which is the exact opposite of what was instilled in me, which was anytime I expressed interest
in anything, I was basically told not to be interested in that thing or told that it
(01:40):
wasn't realistic.
I loved singing when I was young and I wanted to audition for stuff and my mom would tell
me, like-
No.
She would say no and she would say that you're just going to get disappointed.
She would tell me no.
I think that kind of mentality really shaped a lot of my inner narratives that I'm now
(02:03):
trying to unlearn because in my head, I've always heard this voice that's like-
You're not good enough.
You're going to be disappointed.
You're not good enough.
But inside myself deep down, what I hear more loudly now is my voice that I've always had
that always pushed to allow me to do these things.
Even though I have this narrative that I've learned that's all limiting beliefs, it's
(02:27):
entirely every single thing is limiting, limiting, limiting.
You're not going to do that.
It's not worth it.
Why bother?
Why do-
In my head though, I hear and I always spot back and I would always say, well, I don't
care.
Well, the first thing is it makes me sad because I am not a mother.
(02:48):
So I cannot imagine what mothers go through and how they have to raise their children,
let alone their daughters.
But telling anyone that they're not enough or not good enough to try something is always
the wrong message.
It's the wrong message.
The attitude should be you have a goal, you have a dream, let's try it.
(03:10):
Let's try it.
Let's see what happens.
And if it fails miserably, at least we tried and I think not trying something is worse,
way worse.
It's funny because I think my mom generally would encourage us to.
But there's one big thing that she put the kibosh on that in hindsight is fine, but she
(03:34):
went to an elite university.
And I thought for fun, I'm going to apply there too.
My mom went there.
I want to study engineering and I'm a girl, which makes me a unique candidate.
Why don't I try?
She said, don't do it.
She said, this application costs $90.
That's too much money considering you're probably not going to get in.
(03:56):
So I didn't apply.
And I still regret it because who cares if I threw that $90 down the drain.
At least I tried.
I think trying always matters.
And if you think that you want to try something, you should try it.
And if it keeps coming back in your brain, especially for singing, something like singing
(04:17):
is a really interesting thing to tell someone not to do because it makes you feel good.
It's something that feels fun.
And so to not try something that feels fun is just really sad to me.
I'm not a talented singer, so I don't feel the urge to sing very often.
But if I did, I'd want to do it.
And that's, yeah, to respond to the first part, the concept of if you want to do something,
(04:40):
try it.
Try it.
This is one of my favorite things about you as a friend is over the course of knowing me
over what did we say it is, like eight years, I've had all sorts of ideas.
This being one of them, the podcast.
Here we are.
I'm like, I'm going to try a podcast.
You're like, great, love it.
Let's do it.
But I've had all sorts of other ideas of things that I've wanted to try.
(05:01):
And you have.
And I've done them.
And every time I bring them up to you, you have never judged me.
You have never made me feel stupid.
You have never had any doubt.
You always have the most enthusiastic, supportive answer.
Even if it's a crazy thing, you're like, cool.
Or even if I think it's dumb, half the time you'd have these ideas, I'm like, I would
(05:21):
never want to do that.
But if Becca wants to build a concrete table, it's okay.
I'll hold the camera or I'll saw the song with you, like to do some dumb project that
I think is silly.
I still think it's worth supporting.
And you do support it.
You do help me with the song and all the things.
And I love that because I've never been afraid to tell you anything.
(05:43):
I've never been afraid to show up as completely authentically myself.
You have always given me full permission to be 100% of myself around you, not just permission,
but encouragement.
And I think that's the only environment that people can really grow and thrive.
(06:04):
And that is the opposite of what I got growing up.
I was given the exact opposite treatment.
Not from both parents.
My dad was very, very encouraging of me.
I wanted to dye my hair pink in high school.
Not all of it, but the underneath half.
So it was like half and half.
And I thought it would be cool.
(06:25):
Well, first it was blue.
I wanted the blue.
And I thought it would be cool.
My mom was horrified.
Of course.
She was like, absolutely not.
You're not going to do that.
My dad was like, why not?
It's not a tattoo.
It's not permanent.
Yeah.
So like whatever.
Did you do it?
Yeah, I did it.
Great.
Was it ridiculous?
No, it was fine.
Oh, good.
And then I did all the colors.
(06:45):
I did blue, I did pink.
And like my friends and I, we were all doing it together.
It was like a fun thing.
It was a little harmless form of self-expression.
I don't even want to think about the toxins right now.
But whatever.
It was temporary.
It was self-expression.
It made me feel a little bit different and it wasn't permanent.
So my upbringing was very different, but I think that's why your friendship has always
(07:07):
been such an effortless thing for me and reaching out to you for help or support or just to
tell you what's going on.
I've never shied away from updating you on all the crazy ideas of things that I have
and projects that I have or passions that I'm exploring because you're so supportive.
Well, and I think judgment from parents is something we sort of expect.
(07:30):
Let's just say that judgment from parents is maybe, I don't want to say acceptable,
but it's commonplace.
Judgment from friends, I find worse because if I'm your friend, I'm voluntarily spending
time with you.
I'm voluntarily bringing you into my life.
And so if I'm just going to judge you, that doesn't serve you or me.
So I think if you're spending time with people voluntarily that are in your peer group that
(07:52):
are passing judgment on you, no bueno.
Well, and you've experienced that.
Yeah.
I think that when I think about it now, I want to spend, when I strive to spend time
with people that don't treat me that way, that respect me and appreciate me for who
(08:12):
I am and try to encourage me to be a good person and a better person.
And experiencing judgment is not good.
And I have some friends now and they're really close and they're having a little bit of a
rift over feeling, yeah, judged by each other and it's really bad feeling.
Putting an effort a lot to one person, always initiating the effort.
(08:33):
At first you may not recognize it that I'm the one saying, hey, let's get lunch.
Hey, let's get coffee.
Hey, let's go for a walk.
And you're never inviting me to these things.
Sometimes you don't notice the power dynamic, but once you do, it feels bad.
It starts to think, does this person want to spend time with me or do they just accept
(08:54):
spending time with me or are they just too afraid to say no to spend time with me, which
is even worse?
I have a good friend who we would, I would see her sporadically and I initiated it every
time, but at least every time she said, hey, I appreciate you reaching out.
I'm so happy we're hanging out.
Frankly, I recently kind of waned in initiating things, but she texted me out of the blue
(09:17):
and said, happy new year.
I know I haven't been reaching out as much.
You're still really important to me.
I'm going to try to be better.
And I was like, that goes a really long way.
I have sent a text similar to that.
It wasn't on the new year, but there's this person that I've been wanting to be better
friends with.
She's so wonderful.
I've done a few yoga classes with her and we catch up here and there, but we've both
(09:40):
been busy and there were a few times where I texted her and I just said, hey, I'm thinking
of you.
I've been so busy or I'm feeling really antisocial lately, so I don't want to make plans, but
I just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you.
And when I'm feeling up for it, I would love to spend time together.
And she sent a text back and she was like, this was the best text ever.
She was like, thank you so much.
(10:01):
She even said, I should send these texts to people more often.
I never really thought about doing that.
And when I saw her in person, she said this too.
She was like, that meant so much to me because it was no pressure, but I knew that you were
interested in continuing the friendship.
And she was like, I was also really busy, so it was the perfect way to go about it.
(10:21):
I think a text like that goes a long way.
And I feel like there was a time in our friendship where you had reached out a number of times
to make plans with me and every single time couldn't do it.
And I do remember telling you at some point, thank you so much for every invitation.
I want to say yes to the next one.
This is something that I appreciate a lot.
And I think that's the irony about our friendship is I never felt, every time I was just like,
(10:44):
okay, Ben, you can't go.
Moving on.
You've never thought that that would cause me to not want to invite you to something
in the future ever.
Is that what?
What is it about me?
Well, I mean, that's a good question.
It's just like, just because something doesn't work out one time doesn't mean you shouldn't
try again.
(11:04):
Yeah, but there were like seven times in a row.
So why is it that somebody else who did that, you got the vibe that they are sick of you?
Are sick of you?
Because you would never say no.
But it never occurred.
You would never say like, I'm saying no because I don't want to be with you.
This isn't going to work out for me right now.
But there will be a time that it will work out and it will be fun.
(11:24):
And so like, okay, I'll just wait for that time.
But I think that is actually a good point to bring up or to dive in on.
Because how do you know if you should keep trying?
Or does it feel good when you get rejected?
How do you feel when you get rejected?
Because when you would say no, I can't, I'm so sorry.
I'd be like, okay, I always knew it was no pressure.
It never made me feel bad.
(11:46):
But with other people when they say no, it would feel not hurtful, but closer to hurtful.
I think the reason for that is because you know where we stand.
And for me, if I am making effort with somebody to spend time with them or continue the relationship
of some capacity, I am putting in the effort.
(12:07):
That's a bit of vulnerability.
It's like, okay, I'm showing you that I am interested in spending time together.
And then if that's not reciprocated and there's no statement made about where they're at,
then you are just left out there.
Like, okay, I've made this effort.
I'm stepping out onto a limb and you just said no, but you didn't give me anything to
(12:29):
hold onto.
So now I'm just on this limb.
And then if you want me to step out onto the limb again and you still don't give me any
feedback, then I'm just on this limb again.
And if you don't have enough self-confidence or if you're invested so much in this other
person's response that that exceeds your own confidence in yourself, then that could lead
(12:51):
to you starting to question things.
So like, does this person not want to spend time with me?
Does this person hate me?
Am I this or that?
And sometimes I can feel an inkling of those thoughts depending on the person and depending
on what the situation is.
But sometimes I don't feel that at all.
Sometimes I just ask and if they say no, then I'm like, okay, I'll just go about my day.
(13:11):
And I think over time, I just don't really care as much anymore.
Like, I don't even ask the question because I don't care.
Sure.
I do like me great if they don't like me, whatever.
But I think before I didn't have as much, I don't know if confidence isn't the right
word, but I wasn't as comfortable with who I was.
I was looking for validation.
(13:33):
That's what it is.
I was looking for validation from other people.
External validation.
And so in asking someone to go and do something with me, the rejection of that would be an
element of external validation or invalidation.
Unless they said, I would have loved to please reach out again.
This didn't work out this time, but I really enjoyed it.
(13:54):
Why would I need all that validation?
And you really shouldn't.
And so now I think I need that less.
Yeah.
I finally got my thought out.
It's a good one.
But I think it's sort of nuanced because if someone says no, and I want to take out this
in person versus via text because via text nuance is completely lost.
But if you're with a person, particularly someone you don't know very well, or if it's
(14:18):
someone maybe you have a romantic interest in, communicating interests or disinterest
is really hard.
And it can be explicit by saying, like, hey, I like you.
I want to keep saying time with you.
But if someone isn't that explicit or if someone doesn't want to say, speak their feelings,
they want to show their feelings.
(14:38):
If the other person can't receive that body language, it's really tricky.
And I think for me, in general, I appreciate really direct communication, but it's not
I don't always receive direct communication from people.
So I have to be reading between the lines, which is not one of my strong suits.
(15:00):
So while seeking external validation is one component of this, really being able to understand
what the message people are trying to send you is not always simple.
It's not straightforward.
I'm the exact same way.
I love direct feedback.
If it's a romantic thing, I love when someone says, I really like you.
(15:22):
I would like to go on a date with you.
That's great.
Because then I can either say, I like you too.
I would like to go on that date or I can say, you seem great, but I'm not interested in
going on the date.
It's so easy.
And then it's all hashed out right then and there.
But if somebody is just trying to send signals my way, I'm not receiving those signals.
(15:44):
There is no way.
I don't pick up on little signals and games and stuff.
I'm not reading between the lines.
If you reach out and you're like, hey, I saw this thing and you send me that, I'm like,
okay.
I saw the thing.
I'm like, thanks for sending.
I'm not like, oh, he's thinking of me.
Oh my gosh, I got the text.
I'm just like, oh, the thing.
Okay.
(16:04):
Cool.
Move on with my life.
I'm the same way.
In with friends too.
I have a question for you because I want to know what you do in this situation.
You meet somebody.
It's someone who really likes climbing because you like climbing and you're talking with
them and you're like, this person, oh my God.
You're annoyed with them.
(16:25):
They love to climb.
They're trying to get out of the conversation.
They are having the best time and you're like, oh, look, I got to, whatever you do to get
out of the conversation, they say, we should hang out sometime.
What do you say?
And you think they really want to hang out?
They want to hang out.
They think you're so cool.
They're like, she climbs, I climb.
(16:46):
They don't have a lot of friends.
What do you say?
It's such a good question because I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that I'm
actually going to want to spend time with this person.
The chances of that happening are slim or if I do see this person, it's out of regret.
So I don't, I want to tell myself, I don't think that I would actually say like, oh
(17:08):
my gosh, yeah, here's my number, but I'm also not going to give them a fake number.
I'm not that catty.
I would say, this sounds unrealistic, but my instinct to say it was really nice hanging
out with you and chatting, but I don't really have time right now to see what the rock gym
(17:29):
that I already am going to all the time.
Like, I don't know.
That's really, it's a hard one because my instinct is to, is to shut it down.
I just don't know how I would do that in a polite way off the top of my head.
Has that happened to you recently?
Do you have to shut people down?
That happens to me all the time.
But oh really?
Yeah.
But I never know how to deal with it.
(17:49):
I will never, ever say, yeah, totally, we should.
Or if it's somebody who already has my number and we run into each other out and about,
I think some people when they say goodbye, they want us to just say, we should hang out
more or like, we should get together.
We should do a happy hour or whatever.
And I think the expectation is that you're supposed to just say, oh my gosh, yeah.
(18:13):
I will never.
Good.
To me, that's the equivalent of laughing at a stand up comedy show that's not funny,
which I also will not do.
I will go to a stand up comedy show.
And frown.
Yes.
Because I'm disappointed that they're not funny.
Yes.
I will do that.
And people are like, come on, just laugh.
No.
I'm like, no.
I am not here to perform my laughter for you.
In the same regard, I will not play along and say, yeah, totally, we should hang out
(18:38):
because I don't want to.
I will never do that.
I will never.
Out of principle.
I have a good story about this then because I'm the same way as you.
I'm not going to say it unless I mean it.
Hey, we should actually see each other again.
I'm only saying that if I actually want to spend time with someone.
Okay.
My sister got married a handful of years ago.
Her husband's brother.
(19:00):
So I have no relation to him.
Yes.
Lived in Philadelphia at the time.
And I don't know how this conversation happened, but he might have said something like, oh,
if you're ever in Philadelphia, let me know.
I have his last words because I was like, oh, I have no reason to go to Philadelphia, but
that would be fun.
That sounds cool.
(19:20):
I booked a trip to Philadelphia over Labor Day and was like, hey, I'm in town.
Can I stay on your couch?
Like I went full send and it was so fun.
I spent most of the time on my own.
I stayed in the hostel.
I entertained myself.
But yeah, if you don't mean what you're saying, I'm just going to bite you because I'm taking
it to heart.
(19:42):
I'm so glad that you did that.
This is another example.
So I know a lot of people in New York, and every time I've had a friend who moves to New
York, they're like, let me know when you're in New York next time.
No, I'm not going to do that.
And so usually I'll say, well, I go to New York a lot.
I'm probably not going to reach out to you.
I say that.
I love that.
(20:02):
I say that because do you want to see these people or not real?
Realistically, sometimes, yeah.
But I know so many people in New York and then all my customers from work are in New York.
So I go to New York pretty regularly.
My sister's there.
I have a handful of best friends, like friends of mine who are so near and dear to my heart
who live there, plus then all these other people who are like, friends, I could spend
(20:24):
time with them.
But even in between, there's a whole spectrum.
And then there's people that I barely know.
And then I have a lot of cousins there.
There's so many people in New York that no matter how many times I go, there is no way
that I'm going to see everybody.
But I will say I've been really proud of myself for this.
And every time I do go, I do manage to grab dinner with a different friend of mine that
(20:44):
I didn't get to see the time before.
But when someone says, let me know when you're in New York next time, I'm not going to be
like, yeah, for sure.
Honestly, this is what I say.
I say, honestly, there are so many people in New York that I have been meaning to see
and every time I go, I don't have time to see them.
And if that changes, I will let you know.
I think that candidness is so refreshing because here's on the flip side.
(21:08):
If I ran into someone when I was back home in Chicago and they said, hey, when you're
in Austin, let me know.
If they did come to Austin and they didn't let me know, I would feel offended.
I would be like they came all the way to my city and didn't want to hang out.
So the fact that you say I don't, I probably won't let you know is truthful because I think
(21:32):
if people come here that I may want to spend time with and they don't reach out, I, maybe
this is a little unreasonable, but I get a little hurt.
It is reasonable to feel whatever you feel.
I'm validating your feelings.
Thank you.
If you feel hurt and also good for you for feeling a feeling with you.
(21:52):
You're feeling the feeling.
Back to where we were though.
Let me just validate your feelings because you're allowed to feel hurt.
You're allowed to feel whatever it is that you're feeling.
I will also say that I have a very different take on that topic.
When people come and visit Austin, people that I know come to Austin and they don't
(22:13):
reach out to me and I find out I do not care at all.
I'm like, I totally understand.
I think about the times that I go to New York and I don't reach out to anyone.
Any time I find, because this happens a lot, people visit Austin all the time, especially
for like bachelorette parties where obviously you're on a, so anytime, anytime, I'm like,
I find out that any, even if it's a best friend, any friend of mine, if I find out that they
(22:36):
were in Austin and didn't tell me, I do not care.
I don't care because I would hate for someone to put the pressure on me to reach out to
them.
Like also I just know people who are all in like the same cities and traveling is already
stressful enough for me at the moment, but to them put pressure on this to like, you
have to see everybody and plan it all out.
(22:56):
Like, I would never want someone to feel obligated to reach out to me because they're in my city.
Sure.
And so I find out all the time that people were here and didn't tell me and I'm like,
yeah, that's totally fine with me.
I do not care.
And usually it's like, oh, they were here for a work conference and it was impossible
to get away.
Yeah.
But I really, I don't, it doesn't bother me at all because I'm not, I think here's,
(23:17):
here's why it doesn't bother me is because I assume that the reason they didn't reach
out has nothing to do with me.
Because it doesn't.
Right.
Well, I mean, hopefully.
Maybe they're like, oh, Becca Golden lives in Austin.
Like, I'm avoiding her.
Let me go visit and not tell her.
Like that just seems crazy to me.
So anytime I go to any other city, the last thing on my mind is all the people who live
(23:43):
there that I should probably go see.
And maybe that's just a me thing, but I think that's a refreshing take.
I just don't, I don't care if people don't want to see me fine or if they just didn't
think about it.
Also fine.
Yeah.
I assume I didn't cross their mind at all.
You know, this is an interesting thing though.
I feel like maybe it strikes a chord with me and I need to think about it more because
(24:06):
on the surface, spending time with people when they visit your city or like feeling obligated
to see people that you aren't really close with anymore when you visit a place like it's
pretty benign.
But it's something that at least in the past has taken up a lot of mental like I thought
about it a lot.
And I wonder why like I could think about it because maybe now not as much, I'm not as
(24:29):
like sensitive to these things, but definitely in the past it was something that I thought
about more.
Why do you think now you're not as sensitive to it?
My first reaction is to say I'm more self-centered now, but I don't think that that feeling self-centered
answers that question because normally I'd say I want to do just what I want to do in
(24:50):
that day.
Like if I'm going home for a week, I'll be home and I'm way more content just spending
time at my parents house, which in the past I would be like, get me out of here.
I want to see my friends like I don't want to sit on the couch and watch TV with my parents
five nights in a row because I don't.
But I'll do it now.
(25:11):
I'll do it way more now because I'm like, it's such a burden to go out.
But in the past, it was fun.
It was like the right burden.
And I really am an extrovert at heart and definitely in my ages zero to 30, I was a
hardcore extrovert.
(25:31):
And so I wanted to be with people.
I wanted to be with my friends.
It made my life great and being at home was boring.
But now I have a fulfilling friendship world here in Austin.
I don't need to be gravitating and like sucking every extroverted moment out of my life at
all times anymore.
(25:53):
But it's a good question.
We're wrapping things up.
We're wrapping things up.
I would like to wrap it up by Madeline.
Tell us why you have to go and where you're about to go to.
Well, I'll just give some background.
It is a Thursday afternoon.
I was doing work at my house and decided to pop over to Becca's take a little seven minute
walk, came, hung out, chatted.
(26:15):
I'm going back home to have my session with Telysa.
Telysa is Becca's renowned functional medicine practitioner.
Functional medicine practitioner.
I think that's how I say it.
And I am also embarking on my health journey with Telysa, which has been very recent.
I just hardly started, but we're going to be reviewing my hair tissue mineral analysis
(26:41):
in 30 minutes.
So can't wait.
And you know, we'll talk all about that in future episodes for you, I'm sure.
So yeah, that's why I get to go home and learn all the things.
And I'm so excited for her.
The Madeline is the third person that I've convinced to do this hair tissue mineral analysis
as of the recording date of this episode.
(27:02):
So by the time you listen to it, there could be thousands.
That's right.
And I'll also start by saying like, in general, I consider my health and wellness pretty good,
but there's still a lot of things in this test with the results that are either things
I didn't expect, things I didn't even know existed.
Like even if you feel good, things can be working.
(27:23):
I'm not trying to be a fear monger, but like I'm excited to learn more about what your
body is doing, even if you don't know how to interpret what it's telling you.
Because I think we're going to talk a lot in the future about what does it mean?
What does your body tell you?
How do you listen to the signals your body is creating?
(27:43):
Because we both have very different journeys of the spectrum of what that means.
And I think every person really has a unique answer to what does it mean to listen to your
body?
And I think this tissue analysis is the first step on knowing what that looks like.
I'm so excited for you.
And we got to wrap it up because it's snowing out, maybe sleeting out, and I got to go find
(28:08):
a jacket so I can walk Madeline home.
Yay.
Thank you.
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