Ever wondered how a humble home-based tutoring service could evolve into a thriving educational hub with a near-40-year legacy? Join us for an insightful episode featuring Carolyn Goodman, the visionary behind Expert Tutoring and College Counseling in Wyckoff. Carolyn shares her inspiring journey from balancing motherhood with her burgeoning tutoring business to establishing a respected educational center in the heart of the community. Discover how she navigated the evolving landscape of educational counseling by harnessing the power of personal recommendations and social media, all while maintaining a deep commitment to personalized student support.
Explore with Carolyn the intricacies of college counseling in competitive regions like Bergen County and the shifting role of standardized tests amid test-optional trends. Our conversation shines a light on how specific high school courses might influence test scores, and the essential skills of reading comprehension and math in academic success. Carolyn even highlights the impact of learning disabilities and the crucial role of specialists in helping students thrive. Celebrate the dedication that has built long-term relationships with students, and learn how Carolyn’s approach keeps her center a trusted choice for educational support.
Expert Tutoring and College Counseling
Carolyn Goodman
300 Franklin Avenue, Wyckoff, NJ, United States, New Jersey
(201) 891-5575
contact@experttutoringnj.com
experttutoringnj.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place
where local businesses andneighbors come together.
Here's your host, Doug Drohan.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Everybody, welcome to another episode of the Good
Neighbor Podcast coming to youlive from Bergen County, brought
to you by the Bergen NeighborsMedia Group.
I am your host, doug Drohan,and I am joined today by the
owner of Expert Tutoring andCollege Counseling based in
Wyckoff, carolyn Goodman.
Carolyn, welcome to the show,thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Yeah, I love having differenttypes of businesses on the show.
(00:36):
Yesterday was a guy that has aJamaican spice rub company, but
it's kind of like his sidehustle.
But now he's morphed that intoa beverage company where they
serve or they sell hibiscustypes of mocktail mixers, and he
was actually on the cover of myRivervale magazine a year ago,
so that was kind of cool.
(00:56):
He works for a hedge fundcompany, but this was built out
of something during COVID andwe're going to get into that.
But I love hearing how peoplelike their origin story, how
they got into the business thatthey're in.
And for you it's not beensomething you just started like.
A year ago you established, youknow, expert tutoring and
college counseling what 40 yearsago Almost.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Almost.
Yeah, I think I'm 105 at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, you started when you were 10.
That's right, nice, so tell usabout that.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I started it out of, actually out of necessity.
I had to.
Well, I had one child and Ireally I wanted to work, but I
did not want to leave my houseand leave my daughter with
somebody.
So I started doing the tutoring.
I was a teacher by trade andand then it just grew and then,
(01:50):
you know, I had to start to finda place to have my business.
That was not my home and itreally just it just kept growing
and that's that's basically.
You know how it was.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Where were you a teacher in Bergen County you
know how it was?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
where were you a teacher in bergen county?
Yeah, actually, I neveractually did teaching.
I did my student teaching inunion city, new jersey okay, and
then I got married and neveractually went down that road,
but until I started doing thetutoring oh nice.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, my, my in-laws are both teachers, and my wife's
uncle and aunt, and it seemedlike that was going to be the
career they wanted for her andher sister, but they they didn't
go into teaching but it's.
But it's amazing how manypeople I meet that know.
You know, if they're fromCliffside Park or New Milford
they know of my, my in-laws.
My mother-in-law was a schoolprincipal for an elementary
(02:44):
school.
My father-in-law was the shopauto shop teacher wow until they
get rid of that program.
But uh, I just met a guy at abar who's a bartender of a
restaurant in, uh, piermont andI hear them talking.
He played baseball and thensomebody mentioned cliffside
park and I was like, oh, youknow, my father-in-law was a
teacher there.
He's like who's that?
He's like john.
If you're mr a, oh my god, mr s, you know my father-in-law was
a teacher there.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
He's like who's that?
It was like John.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
If you're Mr A, oh my God, mr S you know, this guy's
like 55 years old, you know, buthe he remembers my
father-in-law.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, sure, so so all right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So you start this.
Okay, you know I got a daughter.
I don't want to work full timeand I have a teaching degree, so
let me see if there's a needfor tutoring.
So, what age groups did youstart with?
Was it more of like yourdaughter's age at that point, or
did you?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
always no, my daughter was an infant at that
point.
I started with like middleschool kids doing homework help.
Then that went into math, thenthat went into SAT prep and so
forth.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So did you initially start like out of your home and
then went to people's homes tohelp them study and and?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
yeah, I never went to anyone's home, but they came to
my home.
But then it was too much, youknow, cars were coming parking
in front of my house and itstarted just it just started to
grow really fast.
So I then bought a building inin the center of town in Wyckoff
, um.
Where it was zoned the lowerlevel was business and upper
level was you could live there.
(04:09):
So we lived there above it andI did the tutoring downstairs
and then I sold that businessand now I'm that that building,
rather Now I'm in the Definobuilding in town on 300.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Franklin.
I know Adam.
I know Adam Well.
He's a sponsor of the whitegolf magazine.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah.
Guys, stop by that building allthe time, so they are a
wonderful family and FrankDefino has been an amazing
person in my life Actually.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
A lot.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
He helped me find my first building and then he
helped me to do that, to do thesale, and now over there and
then all during COVID.
You know he was a very generousman.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
So how did?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
you grow.
How did your business growinitially?
So you said it got to the pointwhere you had to have your own
space.
So how did it go from?
You know, I'm sure it was justpeople that you knew, word of
mouth.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, it's really word of.
It really was word of mouthuntil um, until it was.
It's still word of mouth really.
But when my kids got older theysaid, mom, you have to
advertise on Facebook oradvertise here.
And I really didn't advertise.
But you know, now we do, we dosome local stuff, but it really
(05:20):
is it's word of mouth.
I mean, I have people that Ihave my students coming back to
me now who have families, whohave kids who want to be tutored
.
So it's fun.
I feel really old when thathappens.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But it's fun, you do local stuff.
Well, we could talk about thatoffline.
But yeah, no, you know it'sinteresting because I don't know
what it was like in 86.
I was in college, so fulldisclosure, I'm not that young.
But you know, tutoring wassomething I, you know.
I took the SATs, a brother andsister and an older.
(05:54):
I had two older sisters and abrother all took their SATs and
ACTs.
My brother and sister went toCornell.
I took my SATs once, did okay,but never took a.
There was no Kaplan course atthe time.
That I know of my parents.
You know I was four kids.
Well, there were five kids, butI was the fourth in four years.
So it was kind of like you tooka test, okay, good, that's it,
(06:17):
go on.
There was no talk about maybe Ishould take some tutoring,
maybe I should take some prepcourses.
It just wasn't.
It was probably there in 1980,whatever, but it, you know it,
didn't seem to be as prevalentas it is today.
I grew up in Long Island andeverybody went to college.
You know it was kind ofexpected you go to college, you
get a job in the city.
That was kind of what wasexpected and yet there wasn't
(06:39):
really this awareness oftutoring.
And then if you think, you know, maybe 10 years later or so
you'd see these HuntingtonLearning Center commercials, but
they always seem to be for kidswho had trouble in school.
You know, if you think abouttheir commercials, it was always
I am studying but I'm stillfailing.
You know, I never thought of itas a place that an A student,
(07:01):
you know somebody who justneeded to get you know a great
grades to, whatever would go to.
So how has the industry evolvedfor you in 40 years?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
or let's say 39 years .
I mean, in the beginning itreally was, you know, like kids
that had trouble, and troubleonly in school, math in
particular.
But now it is something where Imean, almost everybody does
some kind of tutoring.
If they're not, you know, ifthey, if they have a B plus they
want an A plus um, or you knowthey have goals of getting into
(07:34):
an Ivy league college.
We also do college counselingand do their help them with
their applications and that kindof thing.
So it's.
And now we really haveeverything.
I mean we have an occupationaltherapist that works with us.
We've got a speech therapistthat works with us.
We have people who do testingfor kids who have learning
disabilities.
We have everything.
Pretty much we're one-stopshopping.
So yeah, it has gone from me atmy kitchen table to.
(07:58):
I have about 15 people workingwith me and we have a great time
and the kids love coming in.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, and I'm sure that just grew from seeing a
need and maybe parents askingyou oh, by the way, do you know
anybody who could help with this?
And do you know anyone?
And you probably thought toyourself well, we could probably
handle that if I hire the rightpeople.
Let's keep it all under oneroof.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, and that makes sense.
That makes sense.
So where have you seen collegecounseling?
Because I've talked to collegecounselors and I've talked to
people whose kids are applyingto college and I think in Bergen
County, especially the Wyckoffarea I'm over in the NVOT
Northern Valley, old JapanNorthern Valley area and it's
very high performing, maybe highpressure, that I've got to go
(08:43):
to a good college.
When you sit down with someoneand they say, yeah, I'm only
applying to brown, cornell andprinceton and, uh, I don't want
to go to rutgers and I don'twant to, you know, go to
binghamton, whatever these arethe colleges, and do you like,
sit them down and with theirparents and say, well, this is,
you know, let me level set youand looking at your grades or
looking at your, your resume, soto speak, well, we try to be
(09:07):
realistic without squashinganyone's dreams either.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I mean if you want to go to Harvard but you never
apply, you're definitely notgetting in.
So you have to be ready toapply somewhere and accept the
rejection if you get it.
That's basically it, but we tryto manage expectations with the
families and the students.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And if they have any questions, you could just tell
them to watch the movie Rudy,where he wants to go to Notre
Dame and his high school priest,because he goes to Catholic
school, tells him you don'tbelong in this bus, you don't
have the grades to go to to goto Notre Dame, so just forget
about it.
But he doesn't take no for ananswer and he ends up, you know,
getting the grades to go toNotre Dame, so just forget about
it.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
But he doesn't take no for an answer and he ends up,
you know, getting the grades togo there.
It's important, don't take nofor an answer.
Exactly, right, right, keepgoing.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So what do you see in terms of?
You know all the differentstandardized tests.
So obviously there's the SATand the ACTs, which I guess are
the most important for gettinginto college.
How has that changed in termsof the level of scores you need
to get into, let's not say, ivyLeague, but let's say, a
(10:21):
prestigious private school?
How has that changed?
I know the scoring has changedsince I took the SATs.
How has that changed?
I know the scores, you knowjust the scoring has changed
since you know I took the SATs.
How has that evolved over theyears?
And what?
What do you do differently nowthat maybe you didn't do in
terms of prepping people?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Well, I mean the score.
The, the sending of scores toschools has changed because with
the, with COVID and all of that, and people weren't able to
take a test has changed becausewith the, with COVID and all of
that, and people weren't able totake a test.
You know, schools went scoreoptional and some schools are
coming back now to yes, you needscores to come in, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So wait, sorry, score optional.
You didn't need an SAT, youdidn't have to present During
COVID most of the schools yeah,most of the schools.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Schools because you couldn't take a test.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Right, right.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
But now you can.
You can take a test.
So even if a score a school isscore optional, still they will.
If you send in a score to mostof these schools, they're going
to look at it.
So if it's available for you totake a test, you should
probably take a test.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And how many times do you recommend somebody take a
test?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
You know it doesn't really matter because now they
don't really keep track of it.
The average student takes ittwo, three times.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Okay, that's the average, you don't need 100
hours of tutoring for the test.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I mean, if you do, don't bother even taking the
test, but you need.
You know, a good 20 to 30 hoursis the average that we see.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
And do you recommend they take the PSAT first?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, they take it in school anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
They do anyway.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
okay, but you know it's not necessarily your test.
Your test may be the ACT Got it, got it.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So, with the SAT, do you find that students that do
better in verbal are studentsthat studied a foreign language,
or studied Latin Not that anyof us studied Latin, but maybe a
romance language.
Or do you see any types of youknow like where you could point
to say, okay, these kids who didreally well did X, y and Z Like
(12:25):
?
Is there anything you can model, because we always want to
model after success?
X, y and Z Like is thereanything you can model, because
we always want to model aftersuccess?
So have you seen anything overyour years that has better
prepared students to performbetter on an SAT, based on the
curriculum and the classes thatthey studied not just studying
purely for the SAT, but the kindof courses they took over their
(12:45):
high school years?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I think.
I mean I would say that thebasis of everything is reading.
Comprehension is reading, soit's really important to read.
As far as the classes that theytake their math, your math
class obviously has to be.
You know you need to havealgebra, geometry and algebra
too, for most of these tests youwant to be, you know you need
to have algebra geometry andalgebra too.
(13:08):
For most of these tests you wantto be, you know, in those type
classes, but in general are youlearning reading comprehension
At a certain point.
You're not learning that inschool.
So if there's any kind of anissue, we usually end up having
to clean that up for the student.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Okay, Now you also have these different
specializations and differentthings.
Like, I guess, if you're, ifyou have a student who's like we
said back in the old days,people usually went to tutoring
because they were struggling inschool Do you ever uncover that
maybe they have a learningdisability that their parents
they weren't aware of at thetime?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
You do.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
A lot.
Usually, you know, and it'sunfortunate, but this is the way
that it is.
You'll get a junior coming in.
They're starting to do theirSAT prep.
The first thing that we do iswe have them.
When we're doing a reading,we'll have them read the
paragraph out loud, oneparagraph out loud, so we can
hear is there fluid?
You know reading there, or arethey choppy and are they
(14:06):
pronouncing the words correctly?
Is there a font?
And we'll see it right.
I mean, probably I would say40% of the kids that come in
have something going on and well, you know, yeah, really, that
they.
It just never was addressed.
You know they compensate it inschool, but you can't compensate
when you're doing the test.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So when you say something going on, you mean
like some type of language-basedlearning disability.
Exactly, I mean not dyslexia,but I would hope that was
diagnosed earlier on.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
No, it could be, it could very well be.
Wow it could very well be.
Yeah, I see it a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Wow, and then where does the occupational therapist
come in?
For something that you know isthat you know speech therapy.
Do you have a speech therapisttoo, or is it more?
I forget what you said.
All the different, I do have aspeech therapist.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
That's different.
We have also have anoccupational therapist.
So, for example, ouroccupational therapist right now
is working with somebody, astudent, who's in second grade
and having trouble withhandwriting.
Okay, yeah, so that's differentthan a speech therapist would
be working with.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They'll help them hold their pen.
My son's a righty and he writeslike he's a lefty.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
He like, rolls over and writes I'm like dude man.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I've been trying to get him to hold his pen the
right way, but now he's in fifthgrade it's like, okay, is this
ever going?
Yeah, so what?
You know, what is the thingthat you that gives you the most
satisfaction, that you love themost about what you do?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Oh I, I love just seeing the kids happy.
Sometimes we'll have a kid comein and they'll have their
baseball cap on down and won'teven look you in the eye and by
the time they leave they'resmiling and just jumping around.
They're so happy.
That's what I love.
And I love when they get theirscores and when they get into
their schools and they come inand they bring us like a little
(16:01):
banner from their school becausethey're so excited.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, Great.
And then at what age do you?
Does somebody say would theystart with you and they could be
with you for years?
Or obviously the SAT preppingis different.
That's more short term, but doyou find you work with people
for a longer period of time, oris it more like you're a doctor?
You fix what's ailing them andthen they go off on their own?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You know, we have a lot of kids that come in and
they're just with us forever.
And you know some because theyneed it, really, really need it,
and some because, for example,one of my tutors told me the
other day that I have so-and-socoming in.
She said to me I didn't reallyhave any homework today, but I
just didn't want to not see you.
So, yeah, we have kids come,you know, and we're more than
(16:51):
just a tutoring center.
I mean, we're going tograndparents' funerals, we're
going to sweet sixteens, webecome family with our students.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, and you know.
So you have that.
And you know, 20, 30, 40 yearsago, I don't think, mathnasium
was around, maybe HuntingtonLearning Center was around, but
even just in Wyckoff you've gota few different.
You know, wyckoff, you've got afew different.
You know options for people togo to, whether it's you know, C2
, it's a tutor, me after three,or whatever it is, you know.
(17:23):
So how do you likedifferentiate yourself from the
national chains?
And then some of them that area little bit more you know mom
and pop, kind of like you arefor want of a better word bit
more.
You know mom and pop, kind oflike you are for want of a
better word.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, I mean I can say that we've been in business
for almost 40 years.
I think we've been in businessin Wyckoff, you know longer than
anyone's been in business.
And really, you know, I don'treally look at the other
companies, we just do our thingand service our clients.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Okay, okay, okay, and you know you just kind of keep
your head down and do what youknow is right and the rest takes
care of itself, exactly.
But as a parent and you know wego off of referrals I mean the
Facebook groups of anybody cananyone recommend a tutor?
The challenge with that is it'slike right now, while we're
talking now, I don't live inWyckoff, I live in Harrington
(18:19):
Park, so I live near Closter.
I typed in tutors near me and Ihave Huntington Learning Center
in Westwood.
C2 Education in Closter.
Maryland Con AssociatesWestwood, golden Advantage never
heard of them.
Westwood Huntington LearningCenter.
Another one Mathnasium.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Pylon.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Maths Mathnasium, jbe , in-home Private Tutoring Kuman
Kuman's a big one, kuman.
I found out there's a Kuman.
There's like a Kuman inRidgewood, a Kuman in Paramus,
another Kuman in Paramus,another Kuman in Emerson and
another Kuman.
I'm like God, those poorfranchise owners.
They're competing with Kumanslike three, four miles away from
(18:55):
each other.
But the point is is that it'soverwhelming.
I've got you know.
I go down this list and even ifI go on Facebook and ask
somebody, everyone's going tohave their person.
You know their guy, whetherit's tutoring or it's a plumber
or whatever.
So you know, obviously you'vebeen around for 40 years so, and
you've grown and you've added,you know, like this vertical
(19:16):
kind of integration of otherservices.
So you know one thing, and Iand I never sent my son to you,
I've never, you know, been to atutor myself.
But the from our conversationit seems that one of the things
I've experienced with nationalchains when it comes to physical
therapy or other things likethat, is it's not as personal,
it's a little bit moreimpersonal, and I don't want to
(19:37):
take anything away from thepeople that own those franchises
, but would you say that's partof it.
I mean, are you still workinghands on and, as you have any of
your daughter or family membersyou know, joined, or your team
has grown?
I mean, how do you, how do youapproach the team?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Because obviously you've said you've grown so much
over the years, uh, that mustbe one of the things that's, uh,
you know, built your business,I guess right yeah, I mean, I
have my two daughters, both workwith me, um, and then most of
my tutors that are with me havebeen with me for 20 plus years
of the 40 um, and and again, itis it's, uh, we're it's.
(20:17):
We're different than a chain,we're just different.
You know, we're in there Like Isaid you know we're going to
sweet 16s where we're familywith with our, we really care we
really care about the student.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, that's great.
Now, with that said, you reallycare and, and some of the
things that you said are thereason for your success.
We have a lot of businessowners, entrepreneurs, that are
on the show and I've talked towell.
First of all, before I getthere.
I mentioned before we got onair that COVID had to be an
interesting time for tutors andyou guys.
(20:53):
I know you do some onlinelearning.
What was that like and how didyou guys pivot?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, it was.
I'll tell you this we hadalready been doing online
tutoring because we haveinternational clients.
I've had clients in London,spain, india, I mean you name it
and we've had clients.
So we were already ready forthat, but not ready for hey,
there's no more ACT test youknow or no more SAT test.
(21:20):
So you know the business wasnot there.
Luckily, I had a great landlord, as I mentioned before, who was
very generous with us andhelped us through that time.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah.
And so how long were schoolssaying well, you don't need to
take the SAT?
How many years?
So it was 2020.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
No, it was like a year or something, I started
getting back to normal.
I mean, there were still kids,we still had kids, and the kids
weren't going to school.
And then, when they startedgoing to school, and then they
they still needed help with math.
We were doing everything onlineuntil we weren't.
Yeah, no, I'd imagine it was.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
You know, I know it was very challenging for
students.
I feel really bad for the highschool and early college
students that had to deal withthat.
So, you know, not everybody iscut out for individualized.
You know online learning.
You know some of them need tobe in a room with other people
for a number of reasons.
So I imagine that was anopportunity for you guys to help
people stay focused and andeven maybe there's a different
(22:19):
technique to learning online andlistening to a teacher on zoom
versus, uh, you know, in inperson.
So, um, so what advice wouldyou give if someone was starting
a business today?
Um, any business.
Do you have any advice that youcould give them?
And and, um, you know what'sworked for you and the trials
and tribulations that you mayhave gone through.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think that it's really important to be honest
and care about your clientbefore you care any about
anything else.
It's not about the money, it'snot about it's.
It's about caring about theother person, and then that will
come back to you.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So there's a guy named Larry Levine who wrote a
book called selling from theheart and he's got a podcast and
he used to have a Friday zoommeeting with people called the
insiders group, which I was apart of and one of the big uh
kind of quotes, because I getthese daily dose of inspiration
emails from him every morning at6 00 am.
I care about your client morethan you care about your next
(23:24):
customer.
And you know selling from theheart means about being
authentic and really caring,because the in the world of
sales, if you just want to putsales in a bucket, it's down
down there with you know, carsalesmen and the lawyers in
terms of the amount of you knowthat if you gave something a Q
rating on how favorable a careeris viewed by people, you know
(23:44):
sales is on the bottom of thatladder or that rung for reasons
that you know go backhistorically.
So that's one of the things hesays is that care about your
customer more than you careabout your next sale.
So I think that's great advice.
So where?
How would people find you?
Where's?
Where are you located?
Let's just give that to ourlisteners again.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Okay, so we are at 300 Franklin Avenue in Wyckoff
on the second floor, and we haveour website is
experttutoringnjcom.
Expert tutoring njcom.
Um, or they can reach us bycalling me on my phone 891-5575.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
There you go, 201.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
201.
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Right, very good.
All right, carolyn, this wasgreat.
Thank you very much for sharing, and just bear with us for a
few seconds and you and I'll beright back.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to thegood Neighbor podcast.
To nominate your favorite localbusinesses to be featured on
the show, go to gnpbergen.
com.
That's gnpbergen.
com, or call 201-298-8325.
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place
where local businesses andneighbors come together.
Here's your host, Doug Drohan.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Everybody, welcome to another episode of the Good
Neighbor Podcast coming to youlive from Bergen County, brought
to you by the Bergen NeighborsMedia Group.
I am your host, doug Drohan,and I am joined today by the
owner of Expert Tutoring andCollege Counseling based in
Wyckoff, carolyn Goodman.
Carolyn, welcome to the show,thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Yeah, I love having differenttypes of businesses on the show.
(00:36):
Yesterday was a guy that has aJamaican spice rub company, but
it's kind of like his sidehustle.
But now he's morphed that intoa beverage company where they
serve or they sell hibiscustypes of mocktail mixers, and he
was actually on the cover of myRivervale magazine a year ago,
so that was kind of cool.
(00:56):
He works for a hedge fundcompany, but this was built out
of something during COVID andwe're going to get into that.
But I love hearing how peoplelike their origin story, how
they got into the business thatthey're in.
And for you it's not beensomething you just started like.
A year ago you established, youknow, expert tutoring and
college counseling what 40 yearsago Almost.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Almost.
Yeah, I think I'm 105 at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, you started when you were 10.
That's right, nice, so tell usabout that.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I started it out of, actually out of necessity.
I had to.
Well, I had one child and Ireally I wanted to work, but I
did not want to leave my houseand leave my daughter with
somebody.
So I started doing the tutoring.
I was a teacher by trade andand then it just grew and then,
(01:50):
you know, I had to start to finda place to have my business.
That was not my home and itreally just it just kept growing
and that's that's basically.
You know how it was.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Where were you a teacher in Bergen County you
know how it was?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
where were you a teacher in bergen county?
Yeah, actually, I neveractually did teaching.
I did my student teaching inunion city, new jersey okay, and
then I got married and neveractually went down that road,
but until I started doing thetutoring oh nice.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, my, my in-laws are both teachers, and my wife's
uncle and aunt, and it seemedlike that was going to be the
career they wanted for her andher sister, but they they didn't
go into teaching but it's.
But it's amazing how manypeople I meet that know.
You know, if they're fromCliffside Park or New Milford
they know of my, my in-laws.
My mother-in-law was a schoolprincipal for an elementary
(02:44):
school.
My father-in-law was the shopauto shop teacher wow until they
get rid of that program.
But uh, I just met a guy at abar who's a bartender of a
restaurant in, uh, piermont andI hear them talking.
He played baseball and thensomebody mentioned cliffside
park and I was like, oh, youknow, my father-in-law was a
teacher there.
He's like who's that?
He's like john.
If you're mr a, oh my god, mr s, you know my father-in-law was
a teacher there.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
He's like who's that?
It was like John.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
If you're Mr A, oh my God, mr S you know, this guy's
like 55 years old, you know, buthe he remembers my
father-in-law.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, sure, so so all right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So you start this.
Okay, you know I got a daughter.
I don't want to work full timeand I have a teaching degree, so
let me see if there's a needfor tutoring.
So, what age groups did youstart with?
Was it more of like yourdaughter's age at that point, or
did you?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
always no, my daughter was an infant at that
point.
I started with like middleschool kids doing homework help.
Then that went into math, thenthat went into SAT prep and so
forth.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So did you initially start like out of your home and
then went to people's homes tohelp them study and and?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
yeah, I never went to anyone's home, but they came to
my home.
But then it was too much, youknow, cars were coming parking
in front of my house and itstarted just it just started to
grow really fast.
So I then bought a building inin the center of town in Wyckoff
, um.
Where it was zoned the lowerlevel was business and upper
level was you could live there.
(04:09):
So we lived there above it andI did the tutoring downstairs
and then I sold that businessand now I'm that that building,
rather Now I'm in the Definobuilding in town on 300.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Franklin.
I know Adam.
I know Adam Well.
He's a sponsor of the whitegolf magazine.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah.
Guys, stop by that building allthe time, so they are a
wonderful family and FrankDefino has been an amazing
person in my life Actually.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
A lot.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
He helped me find my first building and then he
helped me to do that, to do thesale, and now over there and
then all during COVID.
You know he was a very generousman.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
So how did?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
you grow.
How did your business growinitially?
So you said it got to the pointwhere you had to have your own
space.
So how did it go from?
You know, I'm sure it was justpeople that you knew, word of
mouth.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, it's really word of.
It really was word of mouthuntil um, until it was.
It's still word of mouth really.
But when my kids got older theysaid, mom, you have to
advertise on Facebook oradvertise here.
And I really didn't advertise.
But you know, now we do, we dosome local stuff, but it really
(05:20):
is it's word of mouth.
I mean, I have people that Ihave my students coming back to
me now who have families, whohave kids who want to be tutored
.
So it's fun.
I feel really old when thathappens.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But it's fun, you do local stuff.
Well, we could talk about thatoffline.
But yeah, no, you know it'sinteresting because I don't know
what it was like in 86.
I was in college, so fulldisclosure, I'm not that young.
But you know, tutoring wassomething I, you know.
I took the SATs, a brother andsister and an older.
(05:54):
I had two older sisters and abrother all took their SATs and
ACTs.
My brother and sister went toCornell.
I took my SATs once, did okay,but never took a.
There was no Kaplan course atthe time.
That I know of my parents.
You know I was four kids.
Well, there were five kids, butI was the fourth in four years.
So it was kind of like you tooka test, okay, good, that's it,
(06:17):
go on.
There was no talk about maybe Ishould take some tutoring,
maybe I should take some prepcourses.
It just wasn't.
It was probably there in 1980,whatever, but it, you know it,
didn't seem to be as prevalentas it is today.
I grew up in Long Island andeverybody went to college.
You know it was kind ofexpected you go to college, you
get a job in the city.
That was kind of what wasexpected and yet there wasn't
(06:39):
really this awareness oftutoring.
And then if you think, you know, maybe 10 years later or so
you'd see these HuntingtonLearning Center commercials, but
they always seem to be for kidswho had trouble in school.
You know, if you think abouttheir commercials, it was always
I am studying but I'm stillfailing.
You know, I never thought of itas a place that an A student,
(07:01):
you know somebody who justneeded to get you know a great
grades to, whatever would go to.
So how has the industry evolvedfor you in 40 years?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
or let's say 39 years .
I mean, in the beginning itreally was, you know, like kids
that had trouble, and troubleonly in school, math in
particular.
But now it is something where Imean, almost everybody does
some kind of tutoring.
If they're not, you know, ifthey, if they have a B plus they
want an A plus um, or you knowthey have goals of getting into
(07:34):
an Ivy league college.
We also do college counselingand do their help them with
their applications and that kindof thing.
So it's.
And now we really haveeverything.
I mean we have an occupationaltherapist that works with us.
We've got a speech therapistthat works with us.
We have people who do testingfor kids who have learning
disabilities.
We have everything.
Pretty much we're one-stopshopping.
So yeah, it has gone from me atmy kitchen table to.
(07:58):
I have about 15 people workingwith me and we have a great time
and the kids love coming in.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, and I'm sure that just grew from seeing a
need and maybe parents askingyou oh, by the way, do you know
anybody who could help with this?
And do you know anyone?
And you probably thought toyourself well, we could probably
handle that if I hire the rightpeople.
Let's keep it all under oneroof.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, and that makes sense.
That makes sense.
So where have you seen collegecounseling?
Because I've talked to collegecounselors and I've talked to
people whose kids are applyingto college and I think in Bergen
County, especially the Wyckoffarea I'm over in the NVOT
Northern Valley, old JapanNorthern Valley area and it's
very high performing, maybe highpressure, that I've got to go
(08:43):
to a good college.
When you sit down with someoneand they say, yeah, I'm only
applying to brown, cornell andprinceton and, uh, I don't want
to go to rutgers and I don'twant to, you know, go to
binghamton, whatever these arethe colleges, and do you like,
sit them down and with theirparents and say, well, this is,
you know, let me level set youand looking at your grades or
looking at your, your resume, soto speak, well, we try to be
(09:07):
realistic without squashinganyone's dreams either.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I mean if you want to go to Harvard but you never
apply, you're definitely notgetting in.
So you have to be ready toapply somewhere and accept the
rejection if you get it.
That's basically it, but we tryto manage expectations with the
families and the students.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And if they have any questions, you could just tell
them to watch the movie Rudy,where he wants to go to Notre
Dame and his high school priest,because he goes to Catholic
school, tells him you don'tbelong in this bus, you don't
have the grades to go to to goto Notre Dame, so just forget
about it.
But he doesn't take no for ananswer and he ends up, you know,
getting the grades to go toNotre Dame, so just forget about
it.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
But he doesn't take no for an answer and he ends up,
you know, getting the grades togo there.
It's important, don't take nofor an answer.
Exactly, right, right, keepgoing.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So what do you see in terms of?
You know all the differentstandardized tests.
So obviously there's the SATand the ACTs, which I guess are
the most important for gettinginto college.
How has that changed in termsof the level of scores you need
to get into, let's not say, ivyLeague, but let's say, a
(10:21):
prestigious private school?
How has that changed?
I know the scoring has changedsince I took the SATs.
How has that changed?
I know the scores, you knowjust the scoring has changed
since you know I took the SATs.
How has that evolved over theyears?
And what?
What do you do differently nowthat maybe you didn't do in
terms of prepping people?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Well, I mean the score.
The, the sending of scores toschools has changed because with
the, with COVID and all of that, and people weren't able to
take a test has changed becausewith the, with COVID and all of
that, and people weren't able totake a test.
You know, schools went scoreoptional and some schools are
coming back now to yes, you needscores to come in, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So wait, sorry, score optional.
You didn't need an SAT, youdidn't have to present During
COVID most of the schools yeah,most of the schools.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Schools because you couldn't take a test.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Right, right.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
But now you can.
You can take a test.
So even if a score a school isscore optional, still they will.
If you send in a score to mostof these schools, they're going
to look at it.
So if it's available for you totake a test, you should
probably take a test.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And how many times do you recommend somebody take a
test?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
You know it doesn't really matter because now they
don't really keep track of it.
The average student takes ittwo, three times.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Okay, that's the average, you don't need 100
hours of tutoring for the test.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I mean, if you do, don't bother even taking the
test, but you need.
You know, a good 20 to 30 hoursis the average that we see.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
And do you recommend they take the PSAT first?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, they take it in school anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
They do anyway.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
okay, but you know it's not necessarily your test.
Your test may be the ACT Got it, got it.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So, with the SAT, do you find that students that do
better in verbal are studentsthat studied a foreign language,
or studied Latin Not that anyof us studied Latin, but maybe a
romance language.
Or do you see any types of youknow like where you could point
to say, okay, these kids who didreally well did X, y and Z Like
(12:25):
?
Is there anything you can model, because we always want to
model after success?
X, y and Z Like is thereanything you can model, because
we always want to model aftersuccess?
So have you seen anything overyour years that has better
prepared students to performbetter on an SAT, based on the
curriculum and the classes thatthey studied not just studying
purely for the SAT, but the kindof courses they took over their
(12:45):
high school years?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I think.
I mean I would say that thebasis of everything is reading.
Comprehension is reading, soit's really important to read.
As far as the classes that theytake their math, your math
class obviously has to be.
You know you need to havealgebra, geometry and algebra
too, for most of these tests youwant to be, you know you need
to have algebra geometry andalgebra too.
(13:08):
For most of these tests you wantto be, you know, in those type
classes, but in general are youlearning reading comprehension
At a certain point.
You're not learning that inschool.
So if there's any kind of anissue, we usually end up having
to clean that up for the student.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Okay, Now you also have these different
specializations and differentthings.
Like, I guess, if you're, ifyou have a student who's like we
said back in the old days,people usually went to tutoring
because they were struggling inschool Do you ever uncover that
maybe they have a learningdisability that their parents
they weren't aware of at thetime?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
You do.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
A lot.
Usually, you know, and it'sunfortunate, but this is the way
that it is.
You'll get a junior coming in.
They're starting to do theirSAT prep.
The first thing that we do iswe have them.
When we're doing a reading,we'll have them read the
paragraph out loud, oneparagraph out loud, so we can
hear is there fluid?
You know reading there, or arethey choppy and are they
(14:06):
pronouncing the words correctly?
Is there a font?
And we'll see it right.
I mean, probably I would say40% of the kids that come in
have something going on and well, you know, yeah, really, that
they.
It just never was addressed.
You know they compensate it inschool, but you can't compensate
when you're doing the test.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So when you say something going on, you mean
like some type of language-basedlearning disability.
Exactly, I mean not dyslexia,but I would hope that was
diagnosed earlier on.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
No, it could be, it could very well be.
Wow it could very well be.
Yeah, I see it a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Wow, and then where does the occupational therapist
come in?
For something that you know isthat you know speech therapy.
Do you have a speech therapisttoo, or is it more?
I forget what you said.
All the different, I do have aspeech therapist.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
That's different.
We have also have anoccupational therapist.
So, for example, ouroccupational therapist right now
is working with somebody, astudent, who's in second grade
and having trouble withhandwriting.
Okay, yeah, so that's differentthan a speech therapist would
be working with.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They'll help them hold their pen.
My son's a righty and he writeslike he's a lefty.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
He like, rolls over and writes I'm like dude man.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I've been trying to get him to hold his pen the
right way, but now he's in fifthgrade it's like, okay, is this
ever going?
Yeah, so what?
You know, what is the thingthat you that gives you the most
satisfaction, that you love themost about what you do?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Oh I, I love just seeing the kids happy.
Sometimes we'll have a kid comein and they'll have their
baseball cap on down and won'teven look you in the eye and by
the time they leave they'resmiling and just jumping around.
They're so happy.
That's what I love.
And I love when they get theirscores and when they get into
their schools and they come inand they bring us like a little
(16:01):
banner from their school becausethey're so excited.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, Great.
And then at what age do you?
Does somebody say would theystart with you and they could be
with you for years?
Or obviously the SAT preppingis different.
That's more short term, but doyou find you work with people
for a longer period of time, oris it more like you're a doctor?
You fix what's ailing them andthen they go off on their own?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You know, we have a lot of kids that come in and
they're just with us forever.
And you know some because theyneed it, really, really need it,
and some because, for example,one of my tutors told me the
other day that I have so-and-socoming in.
She said to me I didn't reallyhave any homework today, but I
just didn't want to not see you.
So, yeah, we have kids come,you know, and we're more than
(16:51):
just a tutoring center.
I mean, we're going tograndparents' funerals, we're
going to sweet sixteens, webecome family with our students.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, and you know.
So you have that.
And you know, 20, 30, 40 yearsago, I don't think, mathnasium
was around, maybe HuntingtonLearning Center was around, but
even just in Wyckoff you've gota few different.
You know, wyckoff, you've got afew different.
You know options for people togo to, whether it's you know, C2
, it's a tutor, me after three,or whatever it is, you know.
(17:23):
So how do you likedifferentiate yourself from the
national chains?
And then some of them that area little bit more you know mom
and pop, kind of like you arefor want of a better word bit
more.
You know mom and pop, kind oflike you are for want of a
better word.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, I mean I can say that we've been in business
for almost 40 years.
I think we've been in businessin Wyckoff, you know longer than
anyone's been in business.
And really, you know, I don'treally look at the other
companies, we just do our thingand service our clients.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Okay, okay, okay, and you know you just kind of keep
your head down and do what youknow is right and the rest takes
care of itself, exactly.
But as a parent and you know wego off of referrals I mean the
Facebook groups of anybody cananyone recommend a tutor?
The challenge with that is it'slike right now, while we're
talking now, I don't live inWyckoff, I live in Harrington
(18:19):
Park, so I live near Closter.
I typed in tutors near me and Ihave Huntington Learning Center
in Westwood.
C2 Education in Closter.
Maryland Con AssociatesWestwood, golden Advantage never
heard of them.
Westwood Huntington LearningCenter.
Another one Mathnasium.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Pylon.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Maths Mathnasium, jbe , in-home Private Tutoring Kuman
Kuman's a big one, kuman.
I found out there's a Kuman.
There's like a Kuman inRidgewood, a Kuman in Paramus,
another Kuman in Paramus,another Kuman in Emerson and
another Kuman.
I'm like God, those poorfranchise owners.
They're competing with Kumanslike three, four miles away from
(18:55):
each other.
But the point is is that it'soverwhelming.
I've got you know.
I go down this list and even ifI go on Facebook and ask
somebody, everyone's going tohave their person.
You know their guy, whetherit's tutoring or it's a plumber
or whatever.
So you know, obviously you'vebeen around for 40 years so, and
you've grown and you've added,you know, like this vertical
(19:16):
kind of integration of otherservices.
So you know one thing, and Iand I never sent my son to you,
I've never, you know, been to atutor myself.
But the from our conversationit seems that one of the things
I've experienced with nationalchains when it comes to physical
therapy or other things likethat, is it's not as personal,
it's a little bit moreimpersonal, and I don't want to
(19:37):
take anything away from thepeople that own those franchises
, but would you say that's partof it.
I mean, are you still workinghands on and, as you have any of
your daughter or family membersyou know, joined, or your team
has grown?
I mean, how do you, how do youapproach the team?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Because obviously you've said you've grown so much
over the years, uh, that mustbe one of the things that's, uh,
you know, built your business,I guess right yeah, I mean, I
have my two daughters, both workwith me, um, and then most of
my tutors that are with me havebeen with me for 20 plus years
of the 40 um, and and again, itis it's, uh, we're it's.
(20:17):
We're different than a chain,we're just different.
You know, we're in there Like Isaid you know we're going to
sweet 16s where we're familywith with our, we really care we
really care about the student.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, that's great.
Now, with that said, you reallycare and, and some of the
things that you said are thereason for your success.
We have a lot of businessowners, entrepreneurs, that are
on the show and I've talked towell.
First of all, before I getthere.
I mentioned before we got onair that COVID had to be an
interesting time for tutors andyou guys.
(20:53):
I know you do some onlinelearning.
What was that like and how didyou guys pivot?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, it was.
I'll tell you this we hadalready been doing online
tutoring because we haveinternational clients.
I've had clients in London,spain, india, I mean you name it
and we've had clients.
So we were already ready forthat, but not ready for hey,
there's no more ACT test youknow or no more SAT test.
(21:20):
So you know the business wasnot there.
Luckily, I had a great landlord, as I mentioned before, who was
very generous with us andhelped us through that time.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah.
And so how long were schoolssaying well, you don't need to
take the SAT?
How many years?
So it was 2020.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
No, it was like a year or something, I started
getting back to normal.
I mean, there were still kids,we still had kids, and the kids
weren't going to school.
And then, when they startedgoing to school, and then they
they still needed help with math.
We were doing everything onlineuntil we weren't.
Yeah, no, I'd imagine it was.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
You know, I know it was very challenging for
students.
I feel really bad for the highschool and early college
students that had to deal withthat.
So, you know, not everybody iscut out for individualized.
You know online learning.
You know some of them need tobe in a room with other people
for a number of reasons.
So I imagine that was anopportunity for you guys to help
people stay focused and andeven maybe there's a different
(22:19):
technique to learning online andlistening to a teacher on zoom
versus, uh, you know, in inperson.
So, um, so what advice wouldyou give if someone was starting
a business today?
Um, any business.
Do you have any advice that youcould give them?
And and, um, you know what'sworked for you and the trials
and tribulations that you mayhave gone through.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think that it's really important to be honest
and care about your clientbefore you care any about
anything else.
It's not about the money, it'snot about it's.
It's about caring about theother person, and then that will
come back to you.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So there's a guy named Larry Levine who wrote a
book called selling from theheart and he's got a podcast and
he used to have a Friday zoommeeting with people called the
insiders group, which I was apart of and one of the big uh
kind of quotes, because I getthese daily dose of inspiration
emails from him every morning at6 00 am.
I care about your client morethan you care about your next
(23:24):
customer.
And you know selling from theheart means about being
authentic and really caring,because the in the world of
sales, if you just want to putsales in a bucket, it's down
down there with you know, carsalesmen and the lawyers in
terms of the amount of you knowthat if you gave something a Q
rating on how favorable a careeris viewed by people, you know
(23:44):
sales is on the bottom of thatladder or that rung for reasons
that you know go backhistorically.
So that's one of the things hesays is that care about your
customer more than you careabout your next sale.
So I think that's great advice.
So where?
How would people find you?
Where's?
Where are you located?
Let's just give that to ourlisteners again.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Okay, so we are at 300 Franklin Avenue in Wyckoff
on the second floor, and we haveour website is
experttutoringnjcom.
Expert tutoring njcom.
Um, or they can reach us bycalling me on my phone 891-5575.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
There you go, 201.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
201.
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Right, very good.
All right, carolyn, this wasgreat.
Thank you very much for sharing, and just bear with us for a
few seconds and you and I'll beright back.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to thegood Neighbor podcast.
To nominate your favorite localbusinesses to be featured on
the show, go to gnpbergen.
com.
That's gnpbergen.
com, or call 201-298-8325.
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