August 14, 2025 • 48 mins
Have you ever wondered what makes transformational experiences actually stick? Most of us have had those lightning-bolt moments of clarity that feel life-changing, only to find ourselves slipping back into old patterns weeks later. In this profound conversation with Josh Magro, co-founder of The Limitless Institute, we explore what true, lasting transformation really requires.
Josh reveals the three essential ingredients missing from most personal development approaches: the emotional connection to our insights, the disciplined practice he calls "praxis," and the courage to implement immediate behavioral changes. Through his own compelling story of deciding he was "no longer the shy guy" after a workshop, then systematically taking every opportunity to be in the spotlight until that new identity became real, Josh demonstrates how transformation becomes embodied rather than merely intellectual.
The heart of our discussion centers around vulnerability—why it feels so dangerous and yet remains the doorway to our most authentic connections. "Vulnerability precedes trust," Josh explains, detailing how The Limitless Institute's programs create safe containers for people to drop their emotional armor. We explore how Camp Lionheart transformed my own teenage daughter in just one week, and Josh shares brilliant insights about nurturing that growth as parents without overwhelming our kids.
Perhaps most valuable for daily application is Josh's framework for emotional conversations: first validate feelings before offering solutions—a simple but revolutionary approach that transforms how we might interact with everyone from our children to our partners. His metaphor about monsters under the bed perfectly illustrates why logical explanations fall flat when emotions are running high.
This conversation isn't just theoretical—it's filled with practical wisdom about breaking free from limiting beliefs, catching yourself in negative self-talk, and building the emotional agility to navigate life's challenges. Whether you're a parent struggling with a teenager, someone on your own growth journey, or simply curious about deeper human connection, Josh's insights offer a roadmap to living more authentically and fully.
Visit TheLimitlessInstitute.com or call (321) 278-2098 to learn more about their workshops, teen camps, and coaching programs.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place
where local businesses andneighbors come together.
Here's your host, Jeremy Wolf.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, hello, hello, friends, family, great community
, wonderful universe.
We are back and, as always, weare better than before, and I
must say I am feeling incrediblygrateful this morning.
Our guest today is someone thatI've known for many years now,
and over the course of that timewe've done quite a bit of work
(00:34):
together and I've come to trustand respect him on such a deep
level.
He truly is a special humanbeing.
Many of you know that I have ateenage daughter.
She just turned 13.
And if you're a parent out therewith a teen, you would know
that these years can beformidable for both the teen and
the parents, and our daughteris no different.
(00:55):
We've been going through it.
We've had quite a fewchallenges.
When I heard that our guest hada camp specifically designed
for teens around the work thathe does, it was just a
no-brainer.
I was like sign her up, let'sdo this.
And in just one short week'stime, the differences that we
(01:15):
saw in our daughter, I mean it'snothing short of profound.
I mean we were truly blown away.
So I felt it incumbent upon meto get the word out.
People truly need to know aboutthe work that is being done over
at the Limitless Institute.
So today I'm here with JoshMagro.
He is the founder of theLimitless Institute and you know
(01:36):
, josh, we don't see each othertoo often Heck, we don't really
speak too often but I must say Iconsider you a brother for life
and I am truly grateful to knowyou, brother.
So thank you for your time,thank you for coming on the show
.
I am excited to get into this.
Good to have you.
Yeah, thank you, yes, okay.
(01:57):
So, without further ado, forthose out there that don't know
the Limitless Institute, whydon't we start there?
What would you say?
Your mission is in one sentence.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, let me back up a little bit.
So I'm one of the co-foundersof the Limitless Institute.
There's four of us that run it,so Denise McCarty, alicia
Carrasco, my wife Michelle Magroand myself.
The mission is actually alittle challenging because we do
everything.
It's evolved over the last twodecades.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Okay, it doesn't have to be one sentence, just speak
freely, my friend.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
The focus of it is it's personal empowerment, it's
personal betterment, it'shelping the world function in a
more fully alive way.
I think is the essence of whatwe try to go for, and all of our
programs are lent to thatdirection of helping people feel
completely and be whole andempowered people to live their
(03:01):
lives.
You know, in totality.
You know chasing dreams,healing trauma, you know living
more fully.
For our teens, it's like givingthem communication tools and
leadership tools and the abilityto actually like, leave
fingerprints on the world thatleave it better as opposed to
worse.
That's all of our programs.
Everything that we ever do isalways focused in that direction
(03:22):
.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Love it and somebody that's been through a lot of
these programs, this stuff, asyou're talking about it, I'm
getting goosebumps and itresonates so much with me.
But for those out there thataren't familiar, like I am, can
you walk through a little bitabout the different types of
programs?
I mentioned the camp, what aresome of the other things?
I know I've gone through the P3program.
(03:44):
You do a bunch of differentthings over there.
Can you kind of walk us throughthe different types of programs
that you have?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Certainly, so P3, it stands for personal power and
prosperity.
That's sort of our flagshipworkshop.
It's where everything kind ofbegan.
That workshop has been runningfor about 25 years now and it
was sort of a spinoff of anotherworkshop and it's just evolved
over time.
But the focus of it is learningemotional agility and being
(04:11):
able to sort of review, edit andupdate the belief systems that
we have about ourselves andabout the world.
So it's based on an Elyrianpsychology and focuses a lot on
the sort of templates that wecreate in early childhood and
how they affect us movingforward.
That workshop has been runningfor over two decades now.
(04:32):
When I came on as a facilitatorand then a co-owner of the
organization, one of myexperiences that I had when I
was 18 was a camp.
So I got to be a counselor atthis camp.
It was called Kids Camp Orlandoat the time and it was sort of
again very, very aligned withthis idea of let's help people
(04:55):
feel completely heal what'shappened to them and move
forward.
And that camp stopped runningfor about 12 years.
So when I became a co-owner Iwas like, look, this is
something I want to bring back,this is something that I want.
I want to rewrite the entirecurriculum for it, update it and
bring it back to Orlando.
So that whole process of youknow we named it Camp Lionheart.
(05:19):
Bringing that back into theworld was just massive.
It was like giving our kidsanother opportunity to do this
because of the P3 courses foradults.
There's a lot of other thingsthat we've done over the course
of our organization.
We've done retreats where wewent to Colorado.
We actually got to spend amonth in Tuscany one time.
(05:39):
We rented a villa, which wasglorious.
I highly recommend it.
Tuscany is awesome.
It was gorgeous.
Yeah, so we do retreats thatare all about like chasing your
purpose and how to live morefully, and so forth.
We've done a couples course.
My wife and I facilitated acouples course to help people in
(06:00):
their relationships.
Currently, the other big thingthat I've been working on is
called the alchemy training,where I train people to be
coaches and facilitators, to dokind of what I do.
So helping either work one onone with people to help them
navigate life's challenges andhelp them, sort of like,
discover their own inner wisdomand figure out the solutions
(06:22):
that they need, and then largegroup facilitation, which is God
.
That is my jam, the moment thatthere's more people in the
space.
Then you have the ability toattend to one-on-one, so you
actually have to use the groupenergy for its own benefit.
That's the stuff that I justlove is helping communities come
(06:43):
together, helping large groupsof people sort of create this
idea of communitas, where it'slike there's this connection and
there's this shared empathy andmutual benefit of everyone
involved and there's a certainskillset associated with that.
So we're currently doing ourfourth year of alchemy training,
where we're trainingfacilitators how to kind of
(07:04):
bring this sort of magic intothe world and whatever flavor
they choose.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I love it, man.
The fact that you're nowtraining others to do what you
do to help touch more people isjust incredible, and this is
something I was introduced toyou by Brian, a mutual friend
who's big in this space, andthis just seems to be something
that's also pulling me in thisdirection, to the orbit.
This idea has had such aprofound impact on my life when
(07:32):
I started my spiritual andpersonal growth and development
journey five or six years ago.
It's something that has touchedme so deeply that I feel like
I'm inching closer and closer tobeing somebody that can
facilitate.
I'm just.
I said earlier this year that Iwas going to start a local like
men's group, like Brian did upin Orlando, down here and I.
It's already August and I wentfor a run the other day and at
(07:54):
the end of the run I said tomyself whatever happened to the
men's group?
I never did it.
I said, you know, I'm going toget it done.
I reached out to some, somepeople and I got to get
something going down here inSouth Florida, because the work
that you're doing is justabsolutely incredible and more
people need to know about it.
Truly, we throw the wordtransformation around a lot.
(08:21):
Look, I have this manhoodtransformation t-shirt on from
Brian's group.
In your view, what does realtransformation look like?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I think, typically, what we think about when we talk
about transformation is likethe aha moment, the moment where
it's like, oh my God, I neverrealized that I was a part of
the universe.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, the light bulb goes off and it's like, oh my
God, I'm forever changed.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I was always lovable and I was never deficient as a
person, yeah, but for me that'sonly the first ingredient of
transformation.
Transformation has to haveseveral different components to
it.
I have to be able to have theaha moment.
I have to have a lot of emotionattached to that aha moment.
(09:04):
Have to have a lot of emotionattached to that aha moment,
like there has to be a lot offuel for for the change.
Because typically when we havethe things that we struggle with
old belief systems you knowlimitations, things of that
nature there's a lot of negative, emotional, like negative, but
like there's pain, there'ssuffering, there's hurt, there's
trauma, the shame attached toit.
If I'm going to have a newexperience that is actually
going to transform my life intoa new trajectory, that also has
(09:27):
to have a lot of emotion to it,because emotion is the gap.
And then there's other thingslike follow through this idea we
talk about it in our alchemytraining this idea of praxis.
I actually have to havedisciplined behavior that moves
this new thing forward.
It's not enough to go to like aweekend workshop and be like
whoa, I'm lovable and I feel itbecause I'm surrounded by all
(09:49):
these people in the room who aretelling me what a wonderful
human being I am.
What happens on Monday, when Igo home and I wake up and I just
do my normal same rhythms andI'm like running in the same
steps that I normally do, thatstill perpetuate the old belief
system?
That's a core component of itand I think it's a piece that
our society misses very often inthe sense of like, yes, have
(10:12):
the transformational experience,the aha moment and the big
catharsis that comes with it,but then also, what am I going
to do next?
How will this translate into mylife?
I think a really good story forthis for me.
When I first took P3, I waslike 23 or 24 years old.
I first took this workshop andit was like life changing.
(10:33):
It was all.
It was transformational.
And I left there and I'm likethis is the brand new day.
Old Josh is gone, new Josh ishere and I don't know where I
got this idea, but I said tomyself up until this point in my
life I've treated myself like Iwas the shy guy, that I was shy
, I was introverted, I was justafraid of being seen.
(10:56):
So when I left that workshop, Itold myself I'm no longer the
shy guy.
That is not my fucking story.
I'm done with this.
I know who I'm going to bemoving forward.
That is not it.
And I was like well, what willthat mean in terms of behavior?
So I made this agreement withmyself of anytime there was an
opportunity for me to be in thespotlight, anytime I was in
(11:20):
school at the time.
So anytime a teacher's like weneed to volunteer, anytime
there's anything like that, Ijust had this like already made
decision of like I'm going tojump in.
I'm not going to shy away fromthings, I'm not going to say no
to opportunities to be in frontof people.
And then slowly like like Ithink it was like a month later
(11:40):
I'm in like a counseling classand it's like the first day and
they're like we need a volunteerfor to be processed in front of
the room, like a nightmare foranyone who has any sort of like
like public speaking fear.
Right, and I was like no, comeand have a therapy session in
front of 50 people.
I was just like Yep, that's me,I'll do that.
And I was like you're insane.
I'm like probably, but like Ididn't even have to think about
(12:02):
it.
It was like this is my newbehavior.
There was another situationwhere I was at.
I was at a coffee shop with mythen girlfriend, now wife, and
it's like open mic night and theguy gets on the microphone and
he's like, hey, the next twoperformers didn't show up.
So does anyone know a song,does anyone have a poem?
And I'm like I can do a MitchHedberg impression and they're
(12:22):
like come on up and Michelle, mywife is.
She was more nervous than I was.
She's like what are you doing?
This is a nightmare experience,like you're not prepared for
this, and I'm like I don't care,I don't look whatever.
And I think that's essential totransformation is like I
actually have to now create asystem of behavior that
validates the very thing that Ichange, because if it's just
(12:44):
existing in my head and in mymind, it's not going to stick,
it's not going to change, andthen it's really easy for us to
go back and be like well, Iguess that was just a cool
weekend, but it didn't doanything.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yep, that's something that I've struggled with
tremendously.
I applaud your experience tohave that aha moment and then
actually have it sink into thepoint where you went back into
and then actually have it sinkinto the point where you went
back into society and said, fuckit, the gloves are off.
I'm jumping in full force.
Most people don't do that,myself included, and I think
(13:14):
that these experiences, whetherit's a powerful retreat, whether
it's an experience with themedicine we work with, whatever
it is, when you have theseunbelievable moments, you get a
glimpse into what things couldbe like.
Right, you get to stick yourhead through the door and take a
look around.
You're like, wow, I didn'trealize things could be quite
(13:35):
this amazing.
And then you go back to yourregular nine to five job,
whatever you're doing in lifeyour family, your kids, the
stresses, all this stuff and itslowly pulls you back and it
pulls you away from the workthat you know you need to be
doing.
And it's I think it's deeperthan just I used to say to
myself all the time oh, I got todo the work.
After I have these experiencesand like if somebody would ask
(13:56):
me, what does that work looklike to you.
Oh, you know it's.
It's the meditation every day,the journaling, the breath, work
, gratitude, all this stuff, andthat's part of the work.
But those are just tools andthose tools are what really
allows us to kind of rewrite theprograms in our mind and the
stories that we've toldourselves for many, many years.
(14:19):
For me, going back decades, thatfeed for me into these feelings
of lack of worth and I'm notgood enough and all this crap.
And they say old habits diehard.
Well, old programs die harder.
And really kind of like comingto the precipice on that now,
through this work and the levelof awareness that I have around
(14:42):
these things, like I'm catchingthings now, josh, in the moment,
like if I, if I say to myself,oh, what's wrong with you If I
do something stupid, likeinstantly, I'm like stopping
myself mid thought.
Nope, I don't talk to myselflike that, there's nothing wrong
with me, um, and it's just it's.
It's.
It's like the snowball effectkeeps getting better and better
and better and I feel, like Isaid earlier, I'm being pulled
(15:05):
into my purpose through thiswork.
So it's truly been incredibleexperience.
I've used that word severaltimes now, but it really is.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
And I love that.
I love that example too,because I hear people talk about
this a lot like as a therapistwhen I'm working with people
this idea of like, but I just Ijust do it, I just do the old
behavior and I just follow thosepatterns because they die hard
right, and this idea of like I'mcatching myself in the moment.
I think the first step thatusually happens for people is
that I catch myself two daysafter I did the behavior and I'm
(15:36):
like damn it Like I did itagain.
And then the more that we reallydial into this and hold
ourselves accountable to it.
It's like, well, I catch myselftwo days later.
Well, now, I catch myself a daylater.
Well, now, I catch myself.
An hour after it happened, Irealized, god, I feel awful and
I, oh, I damn it, I did the samething again.
And it gets to a point where Icatch it as it's happening and
(16:03):
I'm like, nope, about to do thething that I always do and I'm
going to do something differentand that's the incremental
change that that is actuallyattainable.
Like it's a lot to say, like,and I'm just gonna never do that
again and I'm going to be thisbrand new person.
It's like that sounds great.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But and we all do that, we all say that all the
time and then we fall back yeah,so, so yeah, and something
happened the other day whichextended beyond me and I thought
this was pretty profound aswell.
Uh, where I'm sitting at thedesk and I did something I can't
even remember what it was.
I did something and I and thatthought came in my.
I was walking to the kitchenand I said to myself what's
wrong with you?
And I caught it.
(16:39):
I said nope, and I asked myselfa lot of times, when I speak to
myself like that, would I talkto my family that way, my people
I love?
I said, would I talk to my sonthat way?
And in that moment it dawned onme that I've actually said
those words to my son before.
When he did something wrong,I'd say like, dude, what's wrong
with you?
And granted, I'm kind of sayingit a little bit in jest, but no
(17:01):
, I'm literally programming hismind to be like I was for all
these years.
And I caught myself and I wentand I sat down with him and I
had a conversation around it andI talked to him from the heart
about my experience, and it'sthose types of lessons that I'm
learning, that I'm trying toinstill upon my kids to right
some of the wrongs that I'vedone over the years, cause we're
we're obviously not perfect.
(17:22):
Parenting is hard and we'regoing to get frustrated
sometimes, but, man, when I loseit, I calm myself down.
Now, at the worst, within aminute or two, whereas before,
like you mentioned, I'll getaggravated.
It would wreck my whole day,sometimes my whole week.
I'd be a disaster over somestupid nonsense.
That happened no more.
(17:43):
No more, brother.
That's beautiful.
I want to talk a little bitabout the camp, because this is
this is something that I knew.
I knew deep down inside when wedecided to send my daughter
(18:04):
there that this was going to begreat for her, but part of me
was also thinking what if shedoesn't like it?
Because I know it's not all funand games.
There's a lot of work that youdo at the camp with these teens
and I said no, trust, have trust, have faith.
I know this is going to be thebest thing for her and I told
everybody that, and it was likein the past I used to.
If I told somebody about thecamp, I would say, yeah, it's
(18:24):
going to be great, but you know,if it's not, we'll do this, and
I found myself not saying thatthere was no caveat.
It was like this is going to bethe best thing for her.
I know it.
This is how it is.
And she got there and there wassome resistance.
After the first day shecommunicated back with me.
She wasn't thrilled initiallybut, man, some of the text
(18:46):
messages that I got from heralong the way, some of the
feedback that I heard, was justlike my wife, I didn't get to go
pick her up, but my wife cameto pick her up.
She said that some of thecampers shared their experience
and I was told that Emma kind ofshared the experience that she
had.
She was one of the first onesto kind of raise her hand up and
(19:07):
talk about the experience shehad and just to see that kind of
it's almost like she foundherself.
Right, she had gotten away fromherself and in just one short
week she found herself.
That being said, what we justtalked about, right, one week
doesn't cure all.
It's a lifelong journey.
What are some of the thingsthat I can do as a parent now,
(19:31):
having gone through thatexperience, to work with her,
walking away from thatexperience, where I'm not like
micromanager.
I'm letting her figure it outherself, but I'm there to kind
of guide her further down thispath because I don't want to
overwhelm her.
Right, that's how we, that'show we ruin things.
Kids have a great experienceand then you put too much
pressure on them and then theyburn out.
(19:52):
They don't want to do itanymore.
So I'm cognizant of that, butI'm so excited for her.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Right, like, how do I walk that line?
That's a really good question.
My initial feeling with thingslike this is that it has to be
led by the kid, and that's kindof like our, our, our energy at
camp as well, is very much aboutautonomy and agency.
Like, you are the leader ofyour life, you get to take
ownership and authorship of yourprocess, so we can offer things
(20:25):
, and you also have the right tosay no, I don't want to do this
exercise or I don't want toprocess this emotion or whatever
the case may be.
So when kids go home, the bestthing we can be doing to sort of
nurture that same process alongis are you willing to tell me,
like, what you got out of thisexperience?
And then whatever she's able tosay like well, you know, it was
(20:47):
really amazing to feel like Icould actually like share my
ideas and my ideas were welcomedby those around me, and I was,
like, is there any place whereI'm not doing that lately as a
parent?
Is there any place where Imight be contributing to this
idea of like that your ideasaren't welcome, you know?
Is that okay that you call meout on that?
I would really like to knowwhere I might be doing that and
(21:07):
where I might be like stoppingthat process.
Or you know, what sort of ideashave you not shared lately?
You know just to like grab thatthread and pull it a little bit
further and see if she'swilling to go with you.
So she starts the energy, shestarts the process, she starts
the conversation of like, yeah,this is something I got from
camp, or this is a big changethat I'm noticing, that I really
liked and it's like great.
(21:28):
How can we nurture that?
How can I keep going with thatin a way that doesn't feel
overwhelming?
But also make sure that I keepthis year of your life to look
different.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Good stuff.
Yeah, I've noticed that withher.
When I truly engage her, Iforget.
As parents, we forget that ourkids are independent agents.
We think they should just dowhat we say.
They have a hard time listeningto us and what I've found is,
(22:03):
if I can get in there and asksome some really question really
good questions and and reallyshow interest in what she's
doing in her life, she tends toopen up.
So that's been really usefulfor me.
Rather than just telling herthings because you could tell
her, you could tell somebody allyou want, but you know if
they're not listening, itdoesn't doesn't do much good
well, and this is the, I think,the the flaw of most human
(22:26):
communication.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's very true with with teenagers especially,
because I mean this reason whywe work with 13 to 17 is that
that's around the time that theprefrontal cortex starts getting
developed and you're like Idon't have to listen to you,
you're not the boss, like allthat autonomy starts bubbling up
.
So it's those moments where wewant to nurture that Like okay,
you're becoming your own person,you're making your own
decisions.
Let's see if we can help youmake really good decisions and
(22:49):
ones that align with who you are.
But the biggest issue withcommunication and human beings,
I think, if I had to boileverything down of conflict
resolution and ways in which wetalk to each other, it all boils
down to when there is anemotion present in a
conversation.
We need two sort of things orsteps, and the first one is we
(23:11):
need to be emotionally attendedto, I need to be empathized with
, I need to be validated forwhat I'm feeling.
I need to be acknowledged andgiven space, enough space to be
able to feel all the layers ofwhat that emotional experience
is.
And then I need, second,accurate information, problem
(23:33):
solving, like the logical stuff,and I need them in that order.
And so often what we, what wedo, I think, is we try to do the
a lot like accurate information, problem-solving, the logical
talk and we skip over theemotional piece and people can't
hear that when there's anemotion present, because
emotions are not logical,they're, they're deeply
irrational, but they feel real,they feel like our entire
(23:56):
experience and like the metaphorI like to use for this is like
if you go into a kid's like thekid like wakes up, they're
crying, they're like I can't goto sleep.
And like you go into theirbedroom and you're like what's,
what's going on, sweetie?
Like there's monsters under thebed and I'm pretty sure there's
one in the closet and we needto turn the lights on.
Is hey, bud, monsters don'texist.
(24:17):
And, by the way, if they did,you think light is going to stop
them?
We are screwed.
If monsters exist, you think Idon't have any weapons in the
house.
What are we going to do?
We're screwed.
Accurate information it's likehey, this doesn't exist, you're
being ridiculous.
Go to sleep and what's thelikelihood of that kid Just like
, oh, thanks, dad, appreciate it, it's the error of my ways,
(24:38):
flick, you know, but we have toattend to the emotion.
It's like look, yeah, you'rescared.
I know this is like the firstweek that you're sleeping in
your own bed and it's hard toget used to and it's dark and
it's scary and this house has alot of sounds.
You know what?
I'm going to check under thebed.
Let's check with me, okay, like, let's go to the bed, let's
look in the closet.
You know what I'm going to keepa nightlight on and I just want
you to know.
(24:58):
Also, I would never letanything happen to you.
I lock the doors, I make surethat our house is safe.
I'm never going to let anythinghappen to it.
It's okay to be scared.
It makes perfect sense.
Sometimes I can't even get tosleep and I'm an adult.
It's like bonding with them,connecting with that emotional
experience Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, it's almost like you're diffusing the
emotional charge and buildingtrust with.
That was such a great analogy.
I love that You're so good atcommunicating, josh.
See, this is why you're so goodat what you do.
I got my job, you got yours.
Well, look, I'm supposed to becommunicating with people.
(25:38):
I should be a killercommunicator.
One of the things that I've cometo learn as I get older I've
come to realize that many of thebeliefs that I've held for my
whole life are not accurate,things that going back 10 years
ago, I would have died on thesword over right, I would have
(26:02):
argued to the to the ends oftime, and it turned out that I
was just dead wrong on thatbelief.
So I've kind of applied that tohow I deal with other people,
because when somebody comes atyou with a belief that they have
, you have to understand thatthey're coming from their own
perspective and that's somethingthat there's a reason why they
(26:22):
arrived at that belief, and mygoal is always to try to
understand the lens that they'reseeing things through, to find
out why they look at things thatway, to see where we have
common ground, and then, whoknows, maybe my view is wrong,
and I've been more and more opento that and I think that's done
wonders in my own life and it'ssomething that I'm very, very
(26:47):
pleased to be at that stateright now, I must say.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
It's a profound shift , what you're talking about,
because most people respond todifferences of opinion with
judgment.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
It's a trigger right.
You get somebody that disagreeswith you or something and you
feel the emotion is palpable.
It comes up and your firstreaction to that is you have to
defend yourself.
Yes, the claws come out.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
This is actually a mark of intelligence.
I can't remember who originallysaid this, but it's a mark of
intelligence to be able to holdtwo opposing worldviews in your
mind simultaneously that I canhave my worldview and how I see
things, what I know to be rightand true, no matter what, and
someone else's that ispotentially conflicting with my
worldview, and that I can haveenough mental space, real estate
(27:38):
that I can hold both of thosesimultaneously without them
actually combating one another.
That is a mark of intelligencethat I can understand that your
worldview is completelydifferent than my own and I
respond with curiosity and Iwould like to understand it even
more.
Tell me what it's like in yourworld.
It's different from my own, butthat's okay.
I want to know what it's like tobe you.
(27:59):
I want to know what it's liketo look through your eyes and
the lens that you see the worldthrough, and it's a.
It's a profound space of beingable to navigate conflict and
it's the source of like.
Where so many misunderstandingshappen is because we don't just
have that level of curiosity oflike.
Wow, so you feel like you'reall alone in the world and no
one understands you.
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, it's a wonderful training exercise as
well to do just what you said,right To straw man and steel man
arguments, right when you takea position that it's opposing
what you believe in, and youreally have a discussion to
support the position that youdon't believe in.
It really kind of sharpens theknife, if you will, in your mind
and again you learn thingsabout your own perspective
(28:43):
through doing that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, Good stuff.
We actually did this in ourcouples course, my wife and I.
It was one of the exercises weincluded and we originally
weren't going to, but we werehaving an argument in front of
our two co-owners.
We're at their house and we'rehaving this argument and as
we're like going through ourtriggers and I'm feeling all
this kind of stuff and we'renavigating it, eventually our
conversation shifts to where wewere both arguing for the other
(29:08):
person's position.
It just sort of naturallyhappened where I'm like I'm
arguing for how I feel and Idon't like this and I'm
triggered and all this kind ofstuff.
And eventually it got to thepoint where I'm like well, it
makes sense that you said that,because I know, I know you
really care about this thing,and like we started switching
(29:29):
positions and so we incorporatedthis into the couples course of
the steel man argument and andwhat it's like.
We basically set up the wholething where it's like pick a
really big topic that you feellike a lot of trigger around in
your relationship, and then weflipped it and we're like now
argue for your partner's side ofit, and the phrase that we use
was, of course, over and overagain, like, of course you feel
angry with me because I didn'tlisten to what you like.
(29:51):
You made this request beforetime and time again and I didn't
acknowledge it and I just kindof negated it and that must've
made you feel like I didn'trespect you and I didn't care.
I mean, of course you wouldn'tfeel respected.
I mean, look at how I behaved.
It's just taking the otherperson's side completely and
making their argument evenstronger.
Yeah, and I'm still.
I still marvel at like howquickly that dissipates conflict
(30:12):
, because it's it's causing usto say, you know what, my
worldview maybe not thatimportant right now, let me hold
yours in really high esteemview.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
maybe not that important right now, let me hold
yours in really high esteem,yep, something else that I found
the other day.
I was talking to my wife aboutsomething.
I won't get into the nittygritty of the details of the
conversation, but she, she saidsomething that I totally
misinterpreted and, based uponmy interpretation of what she
said, I said what was logical torespond to, but because I had
(30:45):
misconstrued her meaning, itdidn't land very well and it
almost turned into an argumentover the thing.
Got to the end of the argument,if you will, much like the
experience that you had, werealized that we were actually
(31:05):
both in agreement the entiretime, and what sent us astray
was the fact that I simplymisinterpreted the first thing
that she said to me, and had Iclarified that and made sure of
what she said, it would haveavoided the whole exchange.
So I thought it was interestingand I figured how many times
have I gotten into a heatedargument with my wife where we
(31:27):
actually agreed on the endresult?
Probably more often than not,probably.
Okay, so I know it can bedifficult.
Okay, so I know it can bedifficult holding space for
people, right, when you're doingthis for lots of people, how do
(31:48):
you stay grounded yourself?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
That's a good question.
I think for me, a lot of itgoes into preparation beforehand
.
Mm-hmm, I think for me a lot ofit goes into preparation
beforehand.
Interestingly enough, before P3workshop, one of my rituals in
terms of getting ready for thoseworkshops is that I need to
connect with something thatelicits tears on my face, like I
(32:18):
need to cry, I need to actuallylike I don't know.
I almost consider it likeemotional stretching in some
ways and it seems almost kind ofcounterintuitive.
I'm like, well, that's not verygrounded to like be in your
emotion, but for me it almostfeels like it, like it lubes up
the dial a little bit so that myability to access my emotion is
more flexible, it's less rigidand that allows me to kind of
(32:41):
attune to the room and whatother people are feeling in a
way that doesn't feel like ithijacks me, it doesn't like hook
me where there's unprocessedstuff that I'm feeling.
That gets triggered by the room, by the people that I'm with,
and I think that's the core ofit is.
I hear a lot of people talkabout being an empath and like
(33:01):
taking on other people's stuff,and I have a sort of love-hate
relationship with that term.
I think, by the way that mostpeople define it.
I too am an empath, but I wouldnever really like, wouldn't
want to like carry that badgenecessarily because I also feel
like I'm responsible for myemotional experience.
Badge necessarily because Ialso feel like I'm responsible
for my emotional experience andthe parts of me that can
(33:23):
empathize with other are partsthat exist in me.
Like if you started expressinganger or frustration or sadness
right now and I felt that that'sa reaction that's happening in
me, it's not like I'm feelingyour emotion, I'm feeling a
response to it.
So, either, if you're feelingsadness and I start feeling sad,
you're reminding me of griefthat I have, you're reminding me
(33:45):
of the sadness that I possesswithin me.
If you get angry and I startfeeling angry, then that's also
mine.
If you get angry and I react byfeeling like you're not allowed
to yell at me, it's like, well,that's an old trigger of mine.
Then it's like, well, that's anold trigger of mine, that's
like, well, my dad used to yell,so I need to defend myself, or
I feel like I'm in danger, orsomething like that.
But all of those reactions, allof those responses, are mine.
(34:12):
So for me, it's about havingthis mindset of what, what is my
shit, what is your shit.
Like when we go to the grocerystore and you put all your shit
on the conveyor belt and youlike slap that bar down and you
like, like, look at the personbehind you, like this is my shit
, that is your shit, that bar,that bar is a pillar of society
that holds everything together.
Because, like, if you thinkabout the way that we go about
(34:33):
emotional process sometimes wedon't have that.
We don't have that separationof what's what's mine and what
is yours.
And if we commingled it all,you know what I'll get.
Your groceries too.
I don't know what are yougetting?
Milk?
Half and half, I'll throw it in, it's fine.
I'll get you next time, whateveryou know, it starts to get a
bit like blurred and enmeshed asopposed to okay, I can feel
(34:56):
that you're feeling somethingand I also I'm.
I'm sensing something inside ofme is waking up and if I could
be attentive to that, if I canreally tune into that.
It doesn't feel like somethingthat is hijacking me.
It doesn't feel like somethingthat's getting in the way.
It just becomes another part ofmy work.
And so often I find, like mywife will say, like I come home
(35:16):
from my like my one-on-onesessions, especially if I'm
working with couples I'll comehome and I'll talk to her and
I'll be like babe, I need toapologize to you for something I
did seven years ago, cause Isaw it play out in a couple in
front of me and I heard that.
I'm like oh my God, I used tosay that and I used to do that,
and I'm like new awareness.
It woke something up in me andthen I need to process it.
(35:37):
I think that is the primaryskill of every facilitator is
that your own work has to be upto date.
We don't have to be enlightened, that's ridiculous but I have
to be up to date.
I don't need to have a lot ofpast stuff that I'm still towing
behind me because inevitablyit's going to get triggered by
the people I'm working with.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Have you ever doubted the work and if so, what
brought you back?
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Oh, I doubted all the time.
I was in the alchemy trainingthis past weekend and I think it
was on the second day I was,like I'm sitting here right now
wondering if this isn't allbullshit.
I have two sort of responses tothat.
One is I think part of that isa part of the imposter syndrome
(36:28):
which is like there's a studycalled the Dunning-Kruger effect
which shows, like thedifference between, like
confidence and competency, andwe all navigate these like big
peaks and valleys of like I feellike I got this, I feel like I
understand it, and then like Idon't know shit.
There's so much more tounderstand about this and I'm
just like a little tadpole inthe pond.
Um, I'm just ineffectual, justthis stripped tooth, toothless
(36:51):
cog in the working machine ofsociety.
The other side of this, too, islike is this all bullshit?
Is this not right?
Is a part of me that isskeptical for the sake of
integrity?
Like I have a part of me thatreally wants to make sure that
I'm doing things in a way thatactually helps people and I want
(37:12):
to make sure that I don't fallvictim to my own ego and my own
confirmation you know,confirmation bias of like.
Well, this is the model that Icreated and this is the workshop
as I see fit, so it has to beright.
Like there's a little part of methat's like are you sure you're
not full of shit?
Let's check our work one moretime, let's go back and let's
(37:33):
assess and let's get feedback tomake sure that we're not doing
this awful thing of like justbelieving our own sort of myth
and and and believing the hypein some way, or just constantly
like ignoring actual feedbackand saying, nope, I know it's
good and I'm not going to hearanything about it.
So I I balance myself betweenthose two of feeling some
(37:56):
self-doubt and always kind oflike I don't know if I'm good at
this.
It's like Josh, you've beendoing this for like 20 years.
Like yeah, I don't know, butmaybe I can be better.
And it's like there's that oldpart of it you know some of my
belief systems.
But then there's another partof it that it's like I know I
want to make sure with somedegree of certainty that what
I'm doing feels right and I'mwilling to accept feedback.
(38:17):
I'm willing to even rake myselfover the coals sometimes just
to make sure that there isn'tsomething I can improve and some
way in which I can strive forjust an incremental level of
better mastery of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, so people have a level of resistance to this
work and I could say thatthroughout some of the work that
we've done together, I meanI've never laughed harder, never
cried harder, never ragedharder, like all these motions
that are kind of pent up andstuck within us.
(38:53):
People have, like it's thisthing with the ego right, like
as a man like you, you can't cry, you can't show your emotions.
Um then people have this, thisresistance to that.
But through doing the work,like for P3, for example, when I
went to do the P3, I remembercoming in there and, like you
know, sitting down in this room,people and all these judgments
came up and I'm like what isthis, what are we doing?
(39:14):
Then we got into some of thework.
I'm like what am I doing here?
What is this thing?
And by the end of thatexperience I felt like I had
shed so much negative emotionthat I had stuck within me to my
core.
By just getting it out therewith this seemingly random group
of people, right, thesestrangers, I left the group with
(39:36):
such a deep connection.
It's not dissimilar to theretreats that we do with the
medicine and everything that wework with.
Why do you feel it is thatpeople have such a resistance to
vulnerability?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
I think, at its core, vulnerability feels.
Actually, it doesn't even justfeel this way.
Vulnerability is dangerous.
Yeah, like most of the, theways in which, like the
mechanisms that we've built uparound ourselves in terms of our
personality and our habits andthe way that we operate,
especially with emotion, theseare protections.
There are pieces of armor thatwe picked up along the way
(40:16):
because we needed to like.
For me as a, as a child, I Icompletely shut myself down from
my emotions, and the reason waspretty simple.
It's like one I got made fun ofconstantly when I was like
really young, for having emotionlike this was just like bullied
out of me, and my father wasextremely like stoic and not in
(40:37):
like the cool philosophical way,but like shut down emotionally,
had no like real affect otherthan anger sometimes.
So I built up this like layerof of, like this armor, this,
this suit of metal around methat said don't feel anything,
don't be affected by the outsideworld, because if I do, I'll be
, I'll be just like putting atarget on my back.
(41:00):
People are going to make fun ofme, people are going to take
advantage of me.
They're going to, you know,exploit whatever those emotions
are or demean my like personalintegrity in some way, like
there was a lot of reasons notto feel emotion.
So when I started doing thiswork in real like the deep
emotional catharsis kind of work, it was still kind of
terrifying, because if I dropall the armor, I'm basically
(41:24):
leaving myself defenseless.
Yes, that's where the healingoccurs, right, that's the idea
of like molting the lobstershell and like you have to go
hide behind a rock until youregrow the next one the lobster
shell and like you have to gohide behind a rock until you
regrow the next one.
It's like we do that becausewe're growing and we need to
shift into something else andthe discomfort is the indication
that that growth needs tohappen.
(41:45):
But it's still scary as shit.
And every single p3, everysingle time we go through that
process, I hear someone saysomething to this effect of like
this is, like this is, this isreally uncomfortable, this is
terrifying.
Why do we have to do this?
My personal favorite actually iswhen people say, like well, if
I feel my feelings completely,I'll be weak, and I always like
(42:06):
to check this out every timethis happens in one of the
workshops when someone says this, because this is like a
limiting belief.
It's something that says thisis an invisible rule I have to
play by in order to be safe inthe world.
If I feel my emotionscompletely, I'll be weak.
I usually check in with theroom and when we do the p3
workshops, sometimes there'slike 90 people in the room and
I'll say how many people raiseyour hand, how many people feel
(42:27):
that same thing, that if youexpressed your emotions
completely, that would be someform of weakness.
Almost every hand goes up andthen I'll, usually because by
this point in the workshopsomeone would have been
vulnerable, right.
So I'll say so.
When jan was expressing herfeelings, how many of us thought
jan is being really weak rightnow?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
not a single hand nobody.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I was like, why not?
It's amazing what we attributeto others in the why, why the
incongruence?
Like, if I'm going to be weak,why wasn't she, you know?
And it's like, well, that wascourageous.
And it's like, why is sheallowed to do that and not you?
And it's like, well, it'scourageous because it's brave,
because it's actually sayingthere's a danger in this and I'm
going to do it anyways and weactually admire it.
(43:12):
So finding these incongruenciesis part of the breaking down,
the resistance of this idea oflike, oh, I, actually I'm not
super congruent on this idea.
I think if other people were todo it, it'd be really amazing
and I really want that for themand there's some part of my soul
that just yearns for theintegration of an emotional
person.
But for me it feels terrifyingand I think there's wisdom in
(43:34):
that sense that, like everysingle time we stretch, every
single time we open ourselves upand we get vulnerable and we
try to be more authentic, somebetter version of ourselves, we
shed that skin over and over andover again.
It's going to feeluncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I have not seen a version of this that's just
licked on by kittens.
It's not delightful, it's notenjoyable, it sucks.
Every time I've been doing thisfor a long time it still sucks.
It still feels like okay, I'mgoing to say the thing that
feels real and I hope nobodystones me to death about it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And the fact that it sucks is the sign that it's
useful and the work you're doingis meaningful.
And that's truly where themagic resides is when you let go
of expectation, you open up,you become vulnerable, you
become authentic, and that iswhat resonates with people.
Recently I went to a guitarworkshop in Nashville.
(44:29):
I've been playing the guitaroff and on for my whole life and
I've always had a hard timeplaying in front of people and
God forbid, I had to actuallysing in front of an audience.
And during that workshop I wentup on stage and, you know, in
front of 60 people or so pluggedin, and sang a song from the
heart and it was so moving andso powerful and it's something
(44:50):
that, you know, looking back,just a couple of years ago I
would have never even thought Iwould have the courage to get up
and do, and it's something thatI've been missing for so long
and I'm so happy to be in thisplace where I'm at right now.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Man, it's just and I remember seeing the video for
that like there's something soprofoundly beautiful about
people entering into who theyauthentically really are in a
courageous way, in a vulnerableway, like when you're talking
about, like leaving the workshopand feeling so connected to
people.
I really believe thatvulnerability precedes trust,
(45:30):
that when we get vulnerable andwe take the risk of showing up
completely, that builds trust inothers.
We're like, wow, you're willingto drop the sword and drop the
shield Maybe I can too andpeople bond together in moments
like that in a way that isunlike anything, like what you
were saying earlier.
It's like we haven't had awhole lot of experiences
together, but I would die foryou, and there's this profound
(45:55):
sense of like no, we'veemotionally gone to war together
.
We know the depths of our soulsand there's just nothing that
will ever eradicate that.
It's a beautiful thing, and Ithink the thing that I love most
about the work that I get to dois seeing that communities can
come together, that we can putour differences aside and still
(46:16):
deeply love and support, and ina way that just feels more
authentic, more real.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yep, a hundred percent man.
Okay, so we're going to have toleave it at that.
We could go on for the for herquite some time on these topics.
This is all very, very useful,very powerful stuff for anyone
that's listening out there thatwould like to learn more.
What's the best way to do that?
Maybe share your website, yourcontact information.
Let our listeners know how wecan connect with you, josh.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah, the Limitless Institutecom is our website, and
we're on social media and soforth as well.
We have workshops that takeplace all over the place.
We have online groups that arehappening right now for people
who are not in Central Florida,and we're willing to travel too.
So we've had a lot ofopportunities to do this kind of
stuff all over.
So if there's a workshop orexperience that we're not doing
(47:09):
yet, I'm always open to ideas.
So perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
We will, of course, drop a link down in the
description below to all of yourcontact information Anyone out
there listening.
If you found this conversationuseful, don't forget to like
subscribe all that fun stuff.
If you've had your ownexperiences with personal growth
, development, spirituality,whatever that looks like, let us
know about it in the comments.
We're always open to hear aboutyour feedback.
(47:36):
Josh, truly, brother, my hat isoff to you.
Continue doing what you'redoing.
You are truly making an impactin this world and I appreciate
you, brother.
Thanks for joining us, thankyou.
Amen, all right.
Thanks everyone for tuning in.
We will catch you all next time.
Everyone, take care and stayblessed out there.
We only have this one life tolive.
Let's make sure we live it tothe fullest.
(47:57):
Everyone, take care.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Thanks for listening to the Good Neighbor Podcast
Cooper City.
To nominate your favorite localbusiness to be featured on the
show, go to gnpcoopercitycom.
That's gnpcoopercitycom, orcall 954-231-3170.
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place
where local businesses andneighbors come together.
Here's your host, Jeremy Wolf.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, hello, hello, friends, family, great community
, wonderful universe.
We are back and, as always, weare better than before, and I
must say I am feeling incrediblygrateful this morning.
Our guest today is someone thatI've known for many years now,
and over the course of that timewe've done quite a bit of work
(00:34):
together and I've come to trustand respect him on such a deep
level.
He truly is a special humanbeing.
Many of you know that I have ateenage daughter.
She just turned 13.
And if you're a parent out therewith a teen, you would know
that these years can beformidable for both the teen and
the parents, and our daughteris no different.
(00:55):
We've been going through it.
We've had quite a fewchallenges.
When I heard that our guest hada camp specifically designed
for teens around the work thathe does, it was just a
no-brainer.
I was like sign her up, let'sdo this.
And in just one short week'stime, the differences that we
(01:15):
saw in our daughter, I mean it'snothing short of profound.
I mean we were truly blown away.
So I felt it incumbent upon meto get the word out.
People truly need to know aboutthe work that is being done over
at the Limitless Institute.
So today I'm here with JoshMagro.
He is the founder of theLimitless Institute and you know
(01:36):
, josh, we don't see each othertoo often Heck, we don't really
speak too often but I must say Iconsider you a brother for life
and I am truly grateful to knowyou, brother.
So thank you for your time,thank you for coming on the show
.
I am excited to get into this.
Good to have you.
Yeah, thank you, yes, okay.
(01:57):
So, without further ado, forthose out there that don't know
the Limitless Institute, whydon't we start there?
What would you say?
Your mission is in one sentence.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, let me back up a little bit.
So I'm one of the co-foundersof the Limitless Institute.
There's four of us that run it,so Denise McCarty, alicia
Carrasco, my wife Michelle Magroand myself.
The mission is actually alittle challenging because we do
everything.
It's evolved over the last twodecades.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Okay, it doesn't have to be one sentence, just speak
freely, my friend.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
The focus of it is it's personal empowerment, it's
personal betterment, it'shelping the world function in a
more fully alive way.
I think is the essence of whatwe try to go for, and all of our
programs are lent to thatdirection of helping people feel
completely and be whole andempowered people to live their
(03:01):
lives.
You know, in totality.
You know chasing dreams,healing trauma, you know living
more fully.
For our teens, it's like givingthem communication tools and
leadership tools and the abilityto actually like, leave
fingerprints on the world thatleave it better as opposed to
worse.
That's all of our programs.
Everything that we ever do isalways focused in that direction
(03:22):
.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Love it and somebody that's been through a lot of
these programs, this stuff, asyou're talking about it, I'm
getting goosebumps and itresonates so much with me.
But for those out there thataren't familiar, like I am, can
you walk through a little bitabout the different types of
programs?
I mentioned the camp, what aresome of the other things?
I know I've gone through the P3program.
(03:44):
You do a bunch of differentthings over there.
Can you kind of walk us throughthe different types of programs
that you have?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Certainly, so P3, it stands for personal power and
prosperity.
That's sort of our flagshipworkshop.
It's where everything kind ofbegan.
That workshop has been runningfor about 25 years now and it
was sort of a spinoff of anotherworkshop and it's just evolved
over time.
But the focus of it is learningemotional agility and being
(04:11):
able to sort of review, edit andupdate the belief systems that
we have about ourselves andabout the world.
So it's based on an Elyrianpsychology and focuses a lot on
the sort of templates that wecreate in early childhood and
how they affect us movingforward.
That workshop has been runningfor over two decades now.
(04:32):
When I came on as a facilitatorand then a co-owner of the
organization, one of myexperiences that I had when I
was 18 was a camp.
So I got to be a counselor atthis camp.
It was called Kids Camp Orlandoat the time and it was sort of
again very, very aligned withthis idea of let's help people
(04:55):
feel completely heal what'shappened to them and move
forward.
And that camp stopped runningfor about 12 years.
So when I became a co-owner Iwas like, look, this is
something I want to bring back,this is something that I want.
I want to rewrite the entirecurriculum for it, update it and
bring it back to Orlando.
So that whole process of youknow we named it Camp Lionheart.
(05:19):
Bringing that back into theworld was just massive.
It was like giving our kidsanother opportunity to do this
because of the P3 courses foradults.
There's a lot of other thingsthat we've done over the course
of our organization.
We've done retreats where wewent to Colorado.
We actually got to spend amonth in Tuscany one time.
(05:39):
We rented a villa, which wasglorious.
I highly recommend it.
Tuscany is awesome.
It was gorgeous.
Yeah, so we do retreats thatare all about like chasing your
purpose and how to live morefully, and so forth.
We've done a couples course.
My wife and I facilitated acouples course to help people in
(06:00):
their relationships.
Currently, the other big thingthat I've been working on is
called the alchemy training,where I train people to be
coaches and facilitators, to dokind of what I do.
So helping either work one onone with people to help them
navigate life's challenges andhelp them, sort of like,
discover their own inner wisdomand figure out the solutions
(06:22):
that they need, and then largegroup facilitation, which is God
.
That is my jam, the moment thatthere's more people in the
space.
Then you have the ability toattend to one-on-one, so you
actually have to use the groupenergy for its own benefit.
That's the stuff that I justlove is helping communities come
(06:43):
together, helping large groupsof people sort of create this
idea of communitas, where it'slike there's this connection and
there's this shared empathy andmutual benefit of everyone
involved and there's a certainskillset associated with that.
So we're currently doing ourfourth year of alchemy training,
where we're trainingfacilitators how to kind of
(07:04):
bring this sort of magic intothe world and whatever flavor
they choose.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I love it, man.
The fact that you're nowtraining others to do what you
do to help touch more people isjust incredible, and this is
something I was introduced toyou by Brian, a mutual friend
who's big in this space, andthis just seems to be something
that's also pulling me in thisdirection, to the orbit.
This idea has had such aprofound impact on my life when
(07:32):
I started my spiritual andpersonal growth and development
journey five or six years ago.
It's something that has touchedme so deeply that I feel like
I'm inching closer and closer tobeing somebody that can
facilitate.
I'm just.
I said earlier this year that Iwas going to start a local like
men's group, like Brian did upin Orlando, down here and I.
It's already August and I wentfor a run the other day and at
(07:54):
the end of the run I said tomyself whatever happened to the
men's group?
I never did it.
I said, you know, I'm going toget it done.
I reached out to some, somepeople and I got to get
something going down here inSouth Florida, because the work
that you're doing is justabsolutely incredible and more
people need to know about it.
Truly, we throw the wordtransformation around a lot.
(08:21):
Look, I have this manhoodtransformation t-shirt on from
Brian's group.
In your view, what does realtransformation look like?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I think, typically, what we think about when we talk
about transformation is likethe aha moment, the moment where
it's like, oh my God, I neverrealized that I was a part of
the universe.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, the light bulb goes off and it's like, oh my
God, I'm forever changed.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I was always lovable and I was never deficient as a
person, yeah, but for me that'sonly the first ingredient of
transformation.
Transformation has to haveseveral different components to
it.
I have to be able to have theaha moment.
I have to have a lot of emotionattached to that aha moment.
(09:04):
Have to have a lot of emotionattached to that aha moment,
like there has to be a lot offuel for for the change.
Because typically when we havethe things that we struggle with
old belief systems you knowlimitations, things of that
nature there's a lot of negative, emotional, like negative, but
like there's pain, there'ssuffering, there's hurt, there's
trauma, the shame attached toit.
If I'm going to have a newexperience that is actually
going to transform my life intoa new trajectory, that also has
(09:27):
to have a lot of emotion to it,because emotion is the gap.
And then there's other thingslike follow through this idea we
talk about it in our alchemytraining this idea of praxis.
I actually have to havedisciplined behavior that moves
this new thing forward.
It's not enough to go to like aweekend workshop and be like
whoa, I'm lovable and I feel itbecause I'm surrounded by all
(09:49):
these people in the room who aretelling me what a wonderful
human being I am.
What happens on Monday, when Igo home and I wake up and I just
do my normal same rhythms andI'm like running in the same
steps that I normally do, thatstill perpetuate the old belief
system?
That's a core component of itand I think it's a piece that
our society misses very often inthe sense of like, yes, have
(10:12):
the transformational experience,the aha moment and the big
catharsis that comes with it,but then also, what am I going
to do next?
How will this translate into mylife?
I think a really good story forthis for me.
When I first took P3, I waslike 23 or 24 years old.
I first took this workshop andit was like life changing.
(10:33):
It was all.
It was transformational.
And I left there and I'm likethis is the brand new day.
Old Josh is gone, new Josh ishere and I don't know where I
got this idea, but I said tomyself up until this point in my
life I've treated myself like Iwas the shy guy, that I was shy
, I was introverted, I was justafraid of being seen.
(10:56):
So when I left that workshop, Itold myself I'm no longer the
shy guy.
That is not my fucking story.
I'm done with this.
I know who I'm going to bemoving forward.
That is not it.
And I was like well, what willthat mean in terms of behavior?
So I made this agreement withmyself of anytime there was an
opportunity for me to be in thespotlight, anytime I was in
(11:20):
school at the time.
So anytime a teacher's like weneed to volunteer, anytime
there's anything like that, Ijust had this like already made
decision of like I'm going tojump in.
I'm not going to shy away fromthings, I'm not going to say no
to opportunities to be in frontof people.
And then slowly like like Ithink it was like a month later
(11:40):
I'm in like a counseling classand it's like the first day and
they're like we need a volunteerfor to be processed in front of
the room, like a nightmare foranyone who has any sort of like
like public speaking fear.
Right, and I was like no, comeand have a therapy session in
front of 50 people.
I was just like Yep, that's me,I'll do that.
And I was like you're insane.
I'm like probably, but like Ididn't even have to think about
(12:02):
it.
It was like this is my newbehavior.
There was another situationwhere I was at.
I was at a coffee shop with mythen girlfriend, now wife, and
it's like open mic night and theguy gets on the microphone and
he's like, hey, the next twoperformers didn't show up.
So does anyone know a song,does anyone have a poem?
And I'm like I can do a MitchHedberg impression and they're
(12:22):
like come on up and Michelle, mywife is.
She was more nervous than I was.
She's like what are you doing?
This is a nightmare experience,like you're not prepared for
this, and I'm like I don't care,I don't look whatever.
And I think that's essential totransformation is like I
actually have to now create asystem of behavior that
validates the very thing that Ichange, because if it's just
(12:44):
existing in my head and in mymind, it's not going to stick,
it's not going to change, andthen it's really easy for us to
go back and be like well, Iguess that was just a cool
weekend, but it didn't doanything.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yep, that's something that I've struggled with
tremendously.
I applaud your experience tohave that aha moment and then
actually have it sink into thepoint where you went back into
and then actually have it sinkinto the point where you went
back into society and said, fuckit, the gloves are off.
I'm jumping in full force.
Most people don't do that,myself included, and I think
(13:14):
that these experiences, whetherit's a powerful retreat, whether
it's an experience with themedicine we work with, whatever
it is, when you have theseunbelievable moments, you get a
glimpse into what things couldbe like.
Right, you get to stick yourhead through the door and take a
look around.
You're like, wow, I didn'trealize things could be quite
(13:35):
this amazing.
And then you go back to yourregular nine to five job,
whatever you're doing in lifeyour family, your kids, the
stresses, all this stuff and itslowly pulls you back and it
pulls you away from the workthat you know you need to be
doing.
And it's I think it's deeperthan just I used to say to
myself all the time oh, I got todo the work.
After I have these experiencesand like if somebody would ask
(13:56):
me, what does that work looklike to you.
Oh, you know it's.
It's the meditation every day,the journaling, the breath, work
, gratitude, all this stuff, andthat's part of the work.
But those are just tools andthose tools are what really
allows us to kind of rewrite theprograms in our mind and the
stories that we've toldourselves for many, many years.
(14:19):
For me, going back decades, thatfeed for me into these feelings
of lack of worth and I'm notgood enough and all this crap.
And they say old habits diehard.
Well, old programs die harder.
And really kind of like comingto the precipice on that now,
through this work and the levelof awareness that I have around
(14:42):
these things, like I'm catchingthings now, josh, in the moment,
like if I, if I say to myself,oh, what's wrong with you If I
do something stupid, likeinstantly, I'm like stopping
myself mid thought.
Nope, I don't talk to myselflike that, there's nothing wrong
with me, um, and it's just it's.
It's.
It's like the snowball effectkeeps getting better and better
and better and I feel, like Isaid earlier, I'm being pulled
(15:05):
into my purpose through thiswork.
So it's truly been incredibleexperience.
I've used that word severaltimes now, but it really is.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
And I love that.
I love that example too,because I hear people talk about
this a lot like as a therapistwhen I'm working with people
this idea of like, but I just Ijust do it, I just do the old
behavior and I just follow thosepatterns because they die hard
right, and this idea of like I'mcatching myself in the moment.
I think the first step thatusually happens for people is
that I catch myself two daysafter I did the behavior and I'm
(15:36):
like damn it Like I did itagain.
And then the more that we reallydial into this and hold
ourselves accountable to it.
It's like, well, I catch myselftwo days later.
Well, now, I catch myself a daylater.
Well, now, I catch myself.
An hour after it happened, Irealized, god, I feel awful and
I, oh, I damn it, I did the samething again.
And it gets to a point where Icatch it as it's happening and
(16:03):
I'm like, nope, about to do thething that I always do and I'm
going to do something differentand that's the incremental
change that that is actuallyattainable.
Like it's a lot to say, like,and I'm just gonna never do that
again and I'm going to be thisbrand new person.
It's like that sounds great.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But and we all do that, we all say that all the
time and then we fall back yeah,so, so yeah, and something
happened the other day whichextended beyond me and I thought
this was pretty profound aswell.
Uh, where I'm sitting at thedesk and I did something I can't
even remember what it was.
I did something and I and thatthought came in my.
I was walking to the kitchenand I said to myself what's
wrong with you?
And I caught it.
(16:39):
I said nope, and I asked myselfa lot of times, when I speak to
myself like that, would I talkto my family that way, my people
I love?
I said, would I talk to my sonthat way?
And in that moment it dawned onme that I've actually said
those words to my son before.
When he did something wrong,I'd say like, dude, what's wrong
with you?
And granted, I'm kind of sayingit a little bit in jest, but no
(17:01):
, I'm literally programming hismind to be like I was for all
these years.
And I caught myself and I wentand I sat down with him and I
had a conversation around it andI talked to him from the heart
about my experience, and it'sthose types of lessons that I'm
learning, that I'm trying toinstill upon my kids to right
some of the wrongs that I'vedone over the years, cause we're
we're obviously not perfect.
(17:22):
Parenting is hard and we'regoing to get frustrated
sometimes, but, man, when I loseit, I calm myself down.
Now, at the worst, within aminute or two, whereas before,
like you mentioned, I'll getaggravated.
It would wreck my whole day,sometimes my whole week.
I'd be a disaster over somestupid nonsense.
That happened no more.
(17:43):
No more, brother.
That's beautiful.
I want to talk a little bitabout the camp, because this is
this is something that I knew.
I knew deep down inside when wedecided to send my daughter
(18:04):
there that this was going to begreat for her, but part of me
was also thinking what if shedoesn't like it?
Because I know it's not all funand games.
There's a lot of work that youdo at the camp with these teens
and I said no, trust, have trust, have faith.
I know this is going to be thebest thing for her and I told
everybody that, and it was likein the past I used to.
If I told somebody about thecamp, I would say, yeah, it's
(18:24):
going to be great, but you know,if it's not, we'll do this, and
I found myself not saying thatthere was no caveat.
It was like this is going to bethe best thing for her.
I know it.
This is how it is.
And she got there and there wassome resistance.
After the first day shecommunicated back with me.
She wasn't thrilled initiallybut, man, some of the text
(18:46):
messages that I got from heralong the way, some of the
feedback that I heard, was justlike my wife, I didn't get to go
pick her up, but my wife cameto pick her up.
She said that some of thecampers shared their experience
and I was told that Emma kind ofshared the experience that she
had.
She was one of the first onesto kind of raise her hand up and
(19:07):
talk about the experience shehad and just to see that kind of
it's almost like she foundherself.
Right, she had gotten away fromherself and in just one short
week she found herself.
That being said, what we justtalked about, right, one week
doesn't cure all.
It's a lifelong journey.
What are some of the thingsthat I can do as a parent now,
(19:31):
having gone through thatexperience, to work with her,
walking away from thatexperience, where I'm not like
micromanager.
I'm letting her figure it outherself, but I'm there to kind
of guide her further down thispath because I don't want to
overwhelm her.
Right, that's how we, that'show we ruin things.
Kids have a great experienceand then you put too much
pressure on them and then theyburn out.
(19:52):
They don't want to do itanymore.
So I'm cognizant of that, butI'm so excited for her.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Right, like, how do I walk that line?
That's a really good question.
My initial feeling with thingslike this is that it has to be
led by the kid, and that's kindof like our, our, our energy at
camp as well, is very much aboutautonomy and agency.
Like, you are the leader ofyour life, you get to take
ownership and authorship of yourprocess, so we can offer things
(20:25):
, and you also have the right tosay no, I don't want to do this
exercise or I don't want toprocess this emotion or whatever
the case may be.
So when kids go home, the bestthing we can be doing to sort of
nurture that same process alongis are you willing to tell me,
like, what you got out of thisexperience?
And then whatever she's able tosay like well, you know, it was
(20:47):
really amazing to feel like Icould actually like share my
ideas and my ideas were welcomedby those around me, and I was,
like, is there any place whereI'm not doing that lately as a
parent?
Is there any place where Imight be contributing to this
idea of like that your ideasaren't welcome, you know?
Is that okay that you call meout on that?
I would really like to knowwhere I might be doing that and
(21:07):
where I might be like stoppingthat process.
Or you know, what sort of ideashave you not shared lately?
You know just to like grab thatthread and pull it a little bit
further and see if she'swilling to go with you.
So she starts the energy, shestarts the process, she starts
the conversation of like, yeah,this is something I got from
camp, or this is a big changethat I'm noticing, that I really
liked and it's like great.
(21:28):
How can we nurture that?
How can I keep going with thatin a way that doesn't feel
overwhelming?
But also make sure that I keepthis year of your life to look
different.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Good stuff.
Yeah, I've noticed that withher.
When I truly engage her, Iforget.
As parents, we forget that ourkids are independent agents.
We think they should just dowhat we say.
They have a hard time listeningto us and what I've found is,
(22:03):
if I can get in there and asksome some really question really
good questions and and reallyshow interest in what she's
doing in her life, she tends toopen up.
So that's been really usefulfor me.
Rather than just telling herthings because you could tell
her, you could tell somebody allyou want, but you know if
they're not listening, itdoesn't doesn't do much good
well, and this is the, I think,the the flaw of most human
(22:26):
communication.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It's very true with with teenagers especially,
because I mean this reason whywe work with 13 to 17 is that
that's around the time that theprefrontal cortex starts getting
developed and you're like Idon't have to listen to you,
you're not the boss, like allthat autonomy starts bubbling up
.
So it's those moments where wewant to nurture that Like okay,
you're becoming your own person,you're making your own
decisions.
Let's see if we can help youmake really good decisions and
(22:49):
ones that align with who you are.
But the biggest issue withcommunication and human beings,
I think, if I had to boileverything down of conflict
resolution and ways in which wetalk to each other, it all boils
down to when there is anemotion present in a
conversation.
We need two sort of things orsteps, and the first one is we
(23:11):
need to be emotionally attendedto, I need to be empathized with
, I need to be validated forwhat I'm feeling.
I need to be acknowledged andgiven space, enough space to be
able to feel all the layers ofwhat that emotional experience
is.
And then I need, second,accurate information, problem
(23:33):
solving, like the logical stuff,and I need them in that order.
And so often what we, what wedo, I think, is we try to do the
a lot like accurate information, problem-solving, the logical
talk and we skip over theemotional piece and people can't
hear that when there's anemotion present, because
emotions are not logical,they're, they're deeply
irrational, but they feel real,they feel like our entire
(23:56):
experience and like the metaphorI like to use for this is like
if you go into a kid's like thekid like wakes up, they're
crying, they're like I can't goto sleep.
And like you go into theirbedroom and you're like what's,
what's going on, sweetie?
Like there's monsters under thebed and I'm pretty sure there's
one in the closet and we needto turn the lights on.
Is hey, bud, monsters don'texist.
(24:17):
And, by the way, if they did,you think light is going to stop
them?
We are screwed.
If monsters exist, you think Idon't have any weapons in the
house.
What are we going to do?
We're screwed.
Accurate information it's likehey, this doesn't exist, you're
being ridiculous.
Go to sleep and what's thelikelihood of that kid Just like
, oh, thanks, dad, appreciate it, it's the error of my ways,
(24:38):
flick, you know, but we have toattend to the emotion.
It's like look, yeah, you'rescared.
I know this is like the firstweek that you're sleeping in
your own bed and it's hard toget used to and it's dark and
it's scary and this house has alot of sounds.
You know what?
I'm going to check under thebed.
Let's check with me, okay, like, let's go to the bed, let's
look in the closet.
You know what I'm going to keepa nightlight on and I just want
you to know.
(24:58):
Also, I would never letanything happen to you.
I lock the doors, I make surethat our house is safe.
I'm never going to let anythinghappen to it.
It's okay to be scared.
It makes perfect sense.
Sometimes I can't even get tosleep and I'm an adult.
It's like bonding with them,connecting with that emotional
experience Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, it's almost like you're diffusing the
emotional charge and buildingtrust with.
That was such a great analogy.
I love that You're so good atcommunicating, josh.
See, this is why you're so goodat what you do.
I got my job, you got yours.
Well, look, I'm supposed to becommunicating with people.
(25:38):
I should be a killercommunicator.
One of the things that I've cometo learn as I get older I've
come to realize that many of thebeliefs that I've held for my
whole life are not accurate,things that going back 10 years
ago, I would have died on thesword over right, I would have
(26:02):
argued to the to the ends oftime, and it turned out that I
was just dead wrong on thatbelief.
So I've kind of applied that tohow I deal with other people,
because when somebody comes atyou with a belief that they have
, you have to understand thatthey're coming from their own
perspective and that's somethingthat there's a reason why they
(26:22):
arrived at that belief, and mygoal is always to try to
understand the lens that they'reseeing things through, to find
out why they look at things thatway, to see where we have
common ground, and then, whoknows, maybe my view is wrong,
and I've been more and more opento that and I think that's done
wonders in my own life and it'ssomething that I'm very, very
(26:47):
pleased to be at that stateright now, I must say.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
It's a profound shift , what you're talking about,
because most people respond todifferences of opinion with
judgment.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
It's a trigger right.
You get somebody that disagreeswith you or something and you
feel the emotion is palpable.
It comes up and your firstreaction to that is you have to
defend yourself.
Yes, the claws come out.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
This is actually a mark of intelligence.
I can't remember who originallysaid this, but it's a mark of
intelligence to be able to holdtwo opposing worldviews in your
mind simultaneously that I canhave my worldview and how I see
things, what I know to be rightand true, no matter what, and
someone else's that ispotentially conflicting with my
worldview, and that I can haveenough mental space, real estate
(27:38):
that I can hold both of thosesimultaneously without them
actually combating one another.
That is a mark of intelligencethat I can understand that your
worldview is completelydifferent than my own and I
respond with curiosity and Iwould like to understand it even
more.
Tell me what it's like in yourworld.
It's different from my own, butthat's okay.
I want to know what it's like tobe you.
(27:59):
I want to know what it's liketo look through your eyes and
the lens that you see the worldthrough, and it's a.
It's a profound space of beingable to navigate conflict and
it's the source of like.
Where so many misunderstandingshappen is because we don't just
have that level of curiosity oflike.
Wow, so you feel like you'reall alone in the world and no
one understands you.
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, it's a wonderful training exercise as
well to do just what you said,right To straw man and steel man
arguments, right when you takea position that it's opposing
what you believe in, and youreally have a discussion to
support the position that youdon't believe in.
It really kind of sharpens theknife, if you will, in your mind
and again you learn thingsabout your own perspective
(28:43):
through doing that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, Good stuff.
We actually did this in ourcouples course, my wife and I.
It was one of the exercises weincluded and we originally
weren't going to, but we werehaving an argument in front of
our two co-owners.
We're at their house and we'rehaving this argument and as
we're like going through ourtriggers and I'm feeling all
this kind of stuff and we'renavigating it, eventually our
conversation shifts to where wewere both arguing for the other
(29:08):
person's position.
It just sort of naturallyhappened where I'm like I'm
arguing for how I feel and Idon't like this and I'm
triggered and all this kind ofstuff.
And eventually it got to thepoint where I'm like well, it
makes sense that you said that,because I know, I know you
really care about this thing,and like we started switching
(29:29):
positions and so we incorporatedthis into the couples course of
the steel man argument and andwhat it's like.
We basically set up the wholething where it's like pick a
really big topic that you feellike a lot of trigger around in
your relationship, and then weflipped it and we're like now
argue for your partner's side ofit, and the phrase that we use
was, of course, over and overagain, like, of course you feel
angry with me because I didn'tlisten to what you like.
(29:51):
You made this request beforetime and time again and I didn't
acknowledge it and I just kindof negated it and that must've
made you feel like I didn'trespect you and I didn't care.
I mean, of course you wouldn'tfeel respected.
I mean, look at how I behaved.
It's just taking the otherperson's side completely and
making their argument evenstronger.
Yeah, and I'm still.
I still marvel at like howquickly that dissipates conflict
(30:12):
, because it's it's causing usto say, you know what, my
worldview maybe not thatimportant right now, let me hold
yours in really high esteemview.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
maybe not that important right now, let me hold
yours in really high esteem,yep, something else that I found
the other day.
I was talking to my wife aboutsomething.
I won't get into the nittygritty of the details of the
conversation, but she, she saidsomething that I totally
misinterpreted and, based uponmy interpretation of what she
said, I said what was logical torespond to, but because I had
(30:45):
misconstrued her meaning, itdidn't land very well and it
almost turned into an argumentover the thing.
Got to the end of the argument,if you will, much like the
experience that you had, werealized that we were actually
(31:05):
both in agreement the entiretime, and what sent us astray
was the fact that I simplymisinterpreted the first thing
that she said to me, and had Iclarified that and made sure of
what she said, it would haveavoided the whole exchange.
So I thought it was interestingand I figured how many times
have I gotten into a heatedargument with my wife where we
(31:27):
actually agreed on the endresult?
Probably more often than not,probably.
Okay, so I know it can bedifficult.
Okay, so I know it can bedifficult holding space for
people, right, when you're doingthis for lots of people, how do
(31:48):
you stay grounded yourself?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
That's a good question.
I think for me, a lot of itgoes into preparation beforehand
.
Mm-hmm, I think for me a lot ofit goes into preparation
beforehand.
Interestingly enough, before P3workshop, one of my rituals in
terms of getting ready for thoseworkshops is that I need to
connect with something thatelicits tears on my face, like I
(32:18):
need to cry, I need to actuallylike I don't know.
I almost consider it likeemotional stretching in some
ways and it seems almost kind ofcounterintuitive.
I'm like, well, that's not verygrounded to like be in your
emotion, but for me it almostfeels like it, like it lubes up
the dial a little bit so that myability to access my emotion is
more flexible, it's less rigidand that allows me to kind of
(32:41):
attune to the room and whatother people are feeling in a
way that doesn't feel like ithijacks me, it doesn't like hook
me where there's unprocessedstuff that I'm feeling.
That gets triggered by the room, by the people that I'm with,
and I think that's the core ofit is.
I hear a lot of people talkabout being an empath and like
(33:01):
taking on other people's stuff,and I have a sort of love-hate
relationship with that term.
I think, by the way that mostpeople define it.
I too am an empath, but I wouldnever really like, wouldn't
want to like carry that badgenecessarily because I also feel
like I'm responsible for myemotional experience.
Badge necessarily because Ialso feel like I'm responsible
for my emotional experience andthe parts of me that can
(33:23):
empathize with other are partsthat exist in me.
Like if you started expressinganger or frustration or sadness
right now and I felt that that'sa reaction that's happening in
me, it's not like I'm feelingyour emotion, I'm feeling a
response to it.
So, either, if you're feelingsadness and I start feeling sad,
you're reminding me of griefthat I have, you're reminding me
(33:45):
of the sadness that I possesswithin me.
If you get angry and I startfeeling angry, then that's also
mine.
If you get angry and I react byfeeling like you're not allowed
to yell at me, it's like, well,that's an old trigger of mine.
Then it's like, well, that's anold trigger of mine, that's
like, well, my dad used to yell,so I need to defend myself, or
I feel like I'm in danger, orsomething like that.
But all of those reactions, allof those responses, are mine.
(34:12):
So for me, it's about havingthis mindset of what, what is my
shit, what is your shit.
Like when we go to the grocerystore and you put all your shit
on the conveyor belt and youlike slap that bar down and you
like, like, look at the personbehind you, like this is my shit
, that is your shit, that bar,that bar is a pillar of society
that holds everything together.
Because, like, if you thinkabout the way that we go about
(34:33):
emotional process sometimes wedon't have that.
We don't have that separationof what's what's mine and what
is yours.
And if we commingled it all,you know what I'll get.
Your groceries too.
I don't know what are yougetting?
Milk?
Half and half, I'll throw it in, it's fine.
I'll get you next time, whateveryou know, it starts to get a
bit like blurred and enmeshed asopposed to okay, I can feel
(34:56):
that you're feeling somethingand I also I'm.
I'm sensing something inside ofme is waking up and if I could
be attentive to that, if I canreally tune into that.
It doesn't feel like somethingthat is hijacking me.
It doesn't feel like somethingthat's getting in the way.
It just becomes another part ofmy work.
And so often I find, like mywife will say, like I come home
(35:16):
from my like my one-on-onesessions, especially if I'm
working with couples I'll comehome and I'll talk to her and
I'll be like babe, I need toapologize to you for something I
did seven years ago, cause Isaw it play out in a couple in
front of me and I heard that.
I'm like oh my God, I used tosay that and I used to do that,
and I'm like new awareness.
It woke something up in me andthen I need to process it.
(35:37):
I think that is the primaryskill of every facilitator is
that your own work has to be upto date.
We don't have to be enlightened, that's ridiculous but I have
to be up to date.
I don't need to have a lot ofpast stuff that I'm still towing
behind me because inevitablyit's going to get triggered by
the people I'm working with.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Have you ever doubted the work and if so, what
brought you back?
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Oh, I doubted all the time.
I was in the alchemy trainingthis past weekend and I think it
was on the second day I was,like I'm sitting here right now
wondering if this isn't allbullshit.
I have two sort of responses tothat.
One is I think part of that isa part of the imposter syndrome
(36:28):
which is like there's a studycalled the Dunning-Kruger effect
which shows, like thedifference between, like
confidence and competency, andwe all navigate these like big
peaks and valleys of like I feellike I got this, I feel like I
understand it, and then like Idon't know shit.
There's so much more tounderstand about this and I'm
just like a little tadpole inthe pond.
Um, I'm just ineffectual, justthis stripped tooth, toothless
(36:51):
cog in the working machine ofsociety.
The other side of this, too, islike is this all bullshit?
Is this not right?
Is a part of me that isskeptical for the sake of
integrity?
Like I have a part of me thatreally wants to make sure that
I'm doing things in a way thatactually helps people and I want
(37:12):
to make sure that I don't fallvictim to my own ego and my own
confirmation you know,confirmation bias of like.
Well, this is the model that Icreated and this is the workshop
as I see fit, so it has to beright.
Like there's a little part of methat's like are you sure you're
not full of shit?
Let's check our work one moretime, let's go back and let's
(37:33):
assess and let's get feedback tomake sure that we're not doing
this awful thing of like justbelieving our own sort of myth
and and and believing the hypein some way, or just constantly
like ignoring actual feedbackand saying, nope, I know it's
good and I'm not going to hearanything about it.
So I I balance myself betweenthose two of feeling some
(37:56):
self-doubt and always kind oflike I don't know if I'm good at
this.
It's like Josh, you've beendoing this for like 20 years.
Like yeah, I don't know, butmaybe I can be better.
And it's like there's that oldpart of it you know some of my
belief systems.
But then there's another partof it that it's like I know I
want to make sure with somedegree of certainty that what
I'm doing feels right and I'mwilling to accept feedback.
(38:17):
I'm willing to even rake myselfover the coals sometimes just
to make sure that there isn'tsomething I can improve and some
way in which I can strive forjust an incremental level of
better mastery of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, so people have a level of resistance to this
work and I could say thatthroughout some of the work that
we've done together, I meanI've never laughed harder, never
cried harder, never ragedharder, like all these motions
that are kind of pent up andstuck within us.
(38:53):
People have, like it's thisthing with the ego right, like
as a man like you, you can't cry, you can't show your emotions.
Um then people have this, thisresistance to that.
But through doing the work,like for P3, for example, when I
went to do the P3, I remembercoming in there and, like you
know, sitting down in this room,people and all these judgments
came up and I'm like what isthis, what are we doing?
(39:14):
Then we got into some of thework.
I'm like what am I doing here?
What is this thing?
And by the end of thatexperience I felt like I had
shed so much negative emotionthat I had stuck within me to my
core.
By just getting it out therewith this seemingly random group
of people, right, thesestrangers, I left the group with
(39:36):
such a deep connection.
It's not dissimilar to theretreats that we do with the
medicine and everything that wework with.
Why do you feel it is thatpeople have such a resistance to
vulnerability?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
I think, at its core, vulnerability feels.
Actually, it doesn't even justfeel this way.
Vulnerability is dangerous.
Yeah, like most of the, theways in which, like the
mechanisms that we've built uparound ourselves in terms of our
personality and our habits andthe way that we operate,
especially with emotion, theseare protections.
There are pieces of armor thatwe picked up along the way
(40:16):
because we needed to like.
For me as a, as a child, I Icompletely shut myself down from
my emotions, and the reason waspretty simple.
It's like one I got made fun ofconstantly when I was like
really young, for having emotionlike this was just like bullied
out of me, and my father wasextremely like stoic and not in
(40:37):
like the cool philosophical way,but like shut down emotionally,
had no like real affect otherthan anger sometimes.
So I built up this like layerof of, like this armor, this,
this suit of metal around methat said don't feel anything,
don't be affected by the outsideworld, because if I do, I'll be
, I'll be just like putting atarget on my back.
(41:00):
People are going to make fun ofme, people are going to take
advantage of me.
They're going to, you know,exploit whatever those emotions
are or demean my like personalintegrity in some way, like
there was a lot of reasons notto feel emotion.
So when I started doing thiswork in real like the deep
emotional catharsis kind of work, it was still kind of
terrifying, because if I dropall the armor, I'm basically
(41:24):
leaving myself defenseless.
Yes, that's where the healingoccurs, right, that's the idea
of like molting the lobstershell and like you have to go
hide behind a rock until youregrow the next one the lobster
shell and like you have to gohide behind a rock until you
regrow the next one.
It's like we do that becausewe're growing and we need to
shift into something else andthe discomfort is the indication
that that growth needs tohappen.
(41:45):
But it's still scary as shit.
And every single p3, everysingle time we go through that
process, I hear someone saysomething to this effect of like
this is, like this is, this isreally uncomfortable, this is
terrifying.
Why do we have to do this?
My personal favorite actually iswhen people say, like well, if
I feel my feelings completely,I'll be weak, and I always like
(42:06):
to check this out every timethis happens in one of the
workshops when someone says this, because this is like a
limiting belief.
It's something that says thisis an invisible rule I have to
play by in order to be safe inthe world.
If I feel my emotionscompletely, I'll be weak.
I usually check in with theroom and when we do the p3
workshops, sometimes there'slike 90 people in the room and
I'll say how many people raiseyour hand, how many people feel
(42:27):
that same thing, that if youexpressed your emotions
completely, that would be someform of weakness.
Almost every hand goes up andthen I'll, usually because by
this point in the workshopsomeone would have been
vulnerable, right.
So I'll say so.
When jan was expressing herfeelings, how many of us thought
jan is being really weak rightnow?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
not a single hand nobody.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I was like, why not?
It's amazing what we attributeto others in the why, why the
incongruence?
Like, if I'm going to be weak,why wasn't she, you know?
And it's like, well, that wascourageous.
And it's like, why is sheallowed to do that and not you?
And it's like, well, it'scourageous because it's brave,
because it's actually sayingthere's a danger in this and I'm
going to do it anyways and weactually admire it.
(43:12):
So finding these incongruenciesis part of the breaking down,
the resistance of this idea oflike, oh, I, actually I'm not
super congruent on this idea.
I think if other people were todo it, it'd be really amazing
and I really want that for themand there's some part of my soul
that just yearns for theintegration of an emotional
person.
But for me it feels terrifyingand I think there's wisdom in
(43:34):
that sense that, like everysingle time we stretch, every
single time we open ourselves upand we get vulnerable and we
try to be more authentic, somebetter version of ourselves, we
shed that skin over and over andover again.
It's going to feeluncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I have not seen a version of this that's just
licked on by kittens.
It's not delightful, it's notenjoyable, it sucks.
Every time I've been doing thisfor a long time it still sucks.
It still feels like okay, I'mgoing to say the thing that
feels real and I hope nobodystones me to death about it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And the fact that it sucks is the sign that it's
useful and the work you're doingis meaningful.
And that's truly where themagic resides is when you let go
of expectation, you open up,you become vulnerable, you
become authentic, and that iswhat resonates with people.
Recently I went to a guitarworkshop in Nashville.
(44:29):
I've been playing the guitaroff and on for my whole life and
I've always had a hard timeplaying in front of people and
God forbid, I had to actuallysing in front of an audience.
And during that workshop I wentup on stage and, you know, in
front of 60 people or so pluggedin, and sang a song from the
heart and it was so moving andso powerful and it's something
(44:50):
that, you know, looking back,just a couple of years ago I
would have never even thought Iwould have the courage to get up
and do, and it's something thatI've been missing for so long
and I'm so happy to be in thisplace where I'm at right now.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Man, it's just and I remember seeing the video for
that like there's something soprofoundly beautiful about
people entering into who theyauthentically really are in a
courageous way, in a vulnerableway, like when you're talking
about, like leaving the workshopand feeling so connected to
people.
I really believe thatvulnerability precedes trust,
(45:30):
that when we get vulnerable andwe take the risk of showing up
completely, that builds trust inothers.
We're like, wow, you're willingto drop the sword and drop the
shield Maybe I can too andpeople bond together in moments
like that in a way that isunlike anything, like what you
were saying earlier.
It's like we haven't had awhole lot of experiences
together, but I would die foryou, and there's this profound
(45:55):
sense of like no, we'veemotionally gone to war together
.
We know the depths of our soulsand there's just nothing that
will ever eradicate that.
It's a beautiful thing, and Ithink the thing that I love most
about the work that I get to dois seeing that communities can
come together, that we can putour differences aside and still
(46:16):
deeply love and support, and ina way that just feels more
authentic, more real.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yep, a hundred percent man.
Okay, so we're going to have toleave it at that.
We could go on for the for herquite some time on these topics.
This is all very, very useful,very powerful stuff for anyone
that's listening out there thatwould like to learn more.
What's the best way to do that?
Maybe share your website, yourcontact information.
Let our listeners know how wecan connect with you, josh.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah, the Limitless Institutecom is our website, and
we're on social media and soforth as well.
We have workshops that takeplace all over the place.
We have online groups that arehappening right now for people
who are not in Central Florida,and we're willing to travel too.
So we've had a lot ofopportunities to do this kind of
stuff all over.
So if there's a workshop orexperience that we're not doing
(47:09):
yet, I'm always open to ideas.
So perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
We will, of course, drop a link down in the
description below to all of yourcontact information Anyone out
there listening.
If you found this conversationuseful, don't forget to like
subscribe all that fun stuff.
If you've had your ownexperiences with personal growth
, development, spirituality,whatever that looks like, let us
know about it in the comments.
We're always open to hear aboutyour feedback.
(47:36):
Josh, truly, brother, my hat isoff to you.
Continue doing what you'redoing.
You are truly making an impactin this world and I appreciate
you, brother.
Thanks for joining us, thankyou.
Amen, all right.
Thanks everyone for tuning in.
We will catch you all next time.
Everyone, take care and stayblessed out there.
We only have this one life tolive.
Let's make sure we live it tothe fullest.
(47:57):
Everyone, take care.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Thanks for listening to the Good Neighbor Podcast
Cooper City.
To nominate your favorite localbusiness to be featured on the
show, go to gnpcoopercitycom.
That's gnpcoopercitycom, orcall 954-231-3170.
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