June 8, 2025 • 42 mins
**This episode discusses serious and possibly trigger topics such as: child sexual assault, sex trafficking, drug/alcohol abuse, physical abuse, and parental abuse.**
If you or someone you know is being trafficked, please contact the Hotline for The Nation Human Trafficking Hotline: 1-888-373-7888
We also have local resources to connect you with if you reach out to us personally, we will make sure you get the help you need!
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Episode Transcript
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Charity (00:19):
thanks Gray for coming.
So glad she's such a sweetperson.
Such a good friend.
Such a beautiful story.
And excited to hear what she hasto say.
And I appreciate Felicia for theupdates in the room,
Graye (00:31):
making the lights look so good and working so hard Yeah,
I'm super excited.
I got
Philesha (00:35):
here early today'cause I was like pumped.
Anyways, to have someone herethat I just, I don't know you
except for when I worked at thegym.
Yeah.
You were just a regular gymgoer.
And what charity has said isjust that you're super sweet and
have a really good story.
I'm excited to hear it andwhatever you feel comfortable
sharing.
Yeah, because I told her, she, I
Charity (00:55):
said, I don't know what she's gonna share.
She'll share whatever she wantsto share.
Yeah.
Either way.
I know you love the Lord, and Iknow that the Lord's impacted
your life and you have a storytell about it.
Yeah.
Graye (01:05):
I'm pretty seasoned at this point, honestly, so I'm
like pretty comfortable with it,Okay.
So I was born and raised in CyArkansas, and my parents were
semi-local people too.
They we lived in Cy when I wasborn, like I just said.
(01:26):
They were married for a littlewhile.
Got divorced when I was fourmaybe five.
And I also had a little brotherat the time, a 1-year-old
brother.
And then eventually both myparents remarried and had joint
custody with me and my brother.
They.
(01:46):
So my birth mom whom I refer tothat way because my stepmom is
who I consider to be my mom.
She did the raising and is stillaround and I love her very
dearly.
But my birth mom and my dad,after their divorce and getting
remarried and everything we weredoing like the back and forth
thing for a really long time.
(02:08):
And my my stepdad was a veryabusive man.
He he didn't hurt us.
I can't really speak for hischildren.
But we did witness him hittingour birth mom a lot.
There was a lot of altercationsand there was a lot of times
where, my dad had to come play,rescue and pick us up and then
(02:31):
there'd be court visits and,litigation and.
All the things that come withsituations like that.
And then we we would it was likea, it was like dependent on our
birth mom's behavior, I guessyou could say, and her decision
patterns.
Whether or not we were seeingher every weekend or every other
(02:51):
weekend, or, there were timesthere were a couple times where
she was just gone, we reallydidn't see her for a long time.
One time.
I didn't see her for a wholeyear, yeah.
But I have been in CCE until Iwas married.
Got married when I was 19 andmoved to North Carolina with my
(03:11):
husband.
He was in the Marine Corps.
he served four years in theMarines and then he was
medically discharged and wemoved back to cce.
And we have been here eversince.
'cause he had a trucking companyand we sort of did that for a
little while.
We haul campers and did allthat.
And then we just fell into ourlab.
We ended up working out ofIdaho, doing agri he was doing
(03:32):
agricultural trucking, but I waswith him.
We were going back and forthfrom Arkansas to Idaho, Arkansas
to Idaho.
And then we landed back here,and now we're trying to get
settled.
But as far as as far as me, I,like I said, I got married when
I was 19 and then we we tried tohave children for about 10 years
and I had about fivemiscarriages and a lot of
(03:55):
heartache, a lot of heartachewith that.
And eventually I got pregnantwith my firstborn daughter.
And nine months ago I hadanother little girl.
So we are very blessed to have afull, joyous household and
hopefully there'll be many morepraise the Lord.
Yes, absolutely.
(04:16):
And as far as when I was a childthat's really, I guess the meat
of my story.
The precursor to me meetingJesus.
But when I was seven I, I wasbeing trafficked actually in
Arkansas and not too far fromhere.
(04:38):
I was trafficked from seven toroughly 11 years old, and I was
threatened and really made to beextremely afraid.
Of what would happen if I toldsomeone, if I went to my dad or
my mom and said, somebody'shurting me, or I don't feel
(05:00):
comfortable going to this placeor that place.
I was made to think that I'mgonna be seriously hurt like
that.
I'm gonna kill you.
I'm gonna kill your parents.
I'm gonna kill your mom.
I'll hunt down your brother.
You know, I mean, basically anytactic to make me scared enough
not to tell their secrets
Philesha (05:19):
Do you think people in your life knew without knowing?
Graye (05:22):
No.
Philesha (05:22):
No.
Graye (05:23):
So this is what has been, that part has been extremely
difficult for me.
Because I ha I struggled for along time, not really wanting to
talk publicly about it.
Yeah.
Because I didn't want to bringany shame to my dad and my
stepmom because they are greatparents.
And they are not unaware people.
(05:45):
So that's actually where it getsinteresting.
So because they were policeofficers,
Philesha (05:49):
So they know now.
I'm sure they do.
Okay.
Graye (05:52):
So, okay.
So when I, when was newlymarried.
My husband went to Afghanistanon deployment.
He was gone for nine months.
During that time, I I went to Iwas, okay.
So I had, I still had arelationship with my birth mom
(06:14):
until that point, until I waslike 1920.
I don't remember.
I would've been, 20 by then.
But I still technically had arelationship with her, albeit a
codependent, terriblerelationship.
It was a relationship, and in mymind I was like, oh, I can reach
her.
I can help her get better.
She was an addict and she is anaddict.
And honestly, for anyonelistening to this, I pray for
(06:37):
her.
I mean, I would, I spend, y'allhave left oceans of tears at the
altar for that woman because Iwant her to know Jesus.
And I want that to be, that'sreally important to me for
everybody to know that before Itell the rest of this.
But when.
You know what I hope she gets tolisten to this someday.
I really do.
A hundred percent.
But when I was, when he was inAfghanistan, I was trying to
(07:00):
spend time with her, and I I hadpicked her up one day from her
house and we were gonna go tolunch or something, I don't
remember, but we were just gonnaspend some time together.
She asked me to make a stop, andI probably should have known
better than to do that.
But I was just giving her thebenefit of the doubt, and I was
(07:21):
in control.
I was driving the vehicle.
So I thought, okay, so we, shetells me where to go, and we're
driving down this road, and aswe're getting to the end of it,
it's pretty long like driveway,I see this house and it was
like.
An avalanche of memories andfeelings and just totally,
(07:47):
completely overwhelming.
And I had all these flashbacksand I started just remembering
things, and I was like, oh mygosh, no I'm crazy.
Like I'm losing my mind rightnow.
I'm really, I'm certifiablyinsane.
This is ridiculous.
Why would I think that, reallychastised myself for it.
And at the time I was livingwith my in-laws I was waiting on
back base housing while he wasin Afghanistan.
(08:09):
'cause we were still, likereally fresh married, before he
left.
And I went to I, I came, I,sorry.
She, so she comes, she gets backin the car and I'm like, no, I'm
leaving.
I've gotta go.
I don't wanna be here anymore.
I'm taking you home.
And she's oh my gosh.
Stop freaking out.
I was like, I'm, I just don'twanna be here.
And she's okay.
(08:30):
I dropped her off, I went backhome.
I sat with myself for a longtime.
Eventually I talked to mymother-in-law a little bit about
what I experienced and sheinformed me,'cause she's a psych
nurse and a very gogglingfaithful woman.
She told me that it is possibleto suppress memories as a
(08:52):
survival tactic and that it'snot just possible, but
incredibly common.
And so that's essentially whathappened to me.
And I used to be really nervousabout saying that because people
were like, oh, okay, sure.
Oh, no.
But I think it's becoming morepeople are becoming more aware
of that possibility.
Like it really is just yourbrain's survival mode.
(09:13):
What I, knowand and it was just,I thought I was certifiably
insane.
At one point.
I hadn't even told mymother-in-law like, I need to be
admitted somewhere because I'mjust not I'm not okay.
My brain is not okay.
And it was like, it's taken aphysical toll on me, and so she
said, I think maybe you shouldwrite a letter to your birth mom
(09:34):
and lay some things out.
Maybe you just need someboundaries.
Of which I had none.
I knew, I didn't know, I didn'tknow anything about drawing
lines in the sand for myself, Iwas just winging it, with
relationships.
And so I I took her advice and Iwrote a letter.
In that letter I simplyexplained to her, I as a
(09:57):
product, first of all, Iactually started the letter by
saying, I love you.
I forgive you for everythingthat you put us through and for
all the bad decisions you'vemade.
And I hope that you get better,and I hope that you turn your
life around.
But I want you to know that Ilove you, and there's so many
things I love about you.
But because of your actions,because of your decisions and
the situations you put us in,all I said was I was raped and I
(10:21):
was put in bad situations overand over again.
And so I really, I'm having ahard time right now, and I need
to draw some boundaries.
And so my boundaries were, I'llmeet you in town if you want to
go get lunch, or, that's prettymuch it.
We can meet in town, that's agood boundary.
We can meet in town, but I'm notgonna come to your house.
You're not gonna come to myhouse.
You're just, we're done, we'redone for now.
(10:43):
And and I need you to respectthis.
And of course, she was nothaving it.
I delivered it to her.
I left and she called me almostimmediately cursing, screaming,
how dare you if you were raped,why didn't you tell anybody?
And I was like, okay.
As a part of that, when I waslike 12 years old.
(11:04):
I actually did try to tell herthat I had been raped.
I, I tried to tell her what washappening to me, and she called
me a liar.
And I just shut up after that.
I just was quiet.
I didn't say anything.
I, and so moving forward to thisletter, she was just not taking
(11:26):
it well, and I thought, oh mygosh.
I just need a break, like awhole total cutoff break.
And so I told her, I said, thisis not over.
I'm not cutting you out.
I just really need some space.
So respect my wishes and pleasedo not call or text me.
Just give me a couple weeks tosit on this.
(11:47):
And she couldn't do that.
She called me.
Pretty much I don't like nextday, two days later, something
like that.
Pretty much right away she wastexting me, calling me.
At some point, I finallyanswered the phone and I said,
Hey.
Remember what I said, I justneeded some time.
You can't seem to respect any ofthe boundaries that I've set in
place, so I'm gonna have to askyou to truly back off I'm gonna
(12:12):
have to change my number orsomething.
This is not gonna work.
At that point she really startedto lay into me about my letter
and the things that I said in itand said, basically again,
calling me a liar, tellingpeople that I was mentally ill.
She's gonna tell people I'mmentally ill.
She's going to make sure thateverybody knows that I'm a liar.
(12:33):
I was like, you can tell peoplewhatever you want.
It's not true.
That's on you and my characteris gonna stand.
Philesha (12:40):
Can I ask you, at this point, are you following Christ
or is that what's aiding you inthis, you think that Christ was
like.
Working through you in thismoment.
Graye (12:51):
I would love to tell you about that
Philesha (12:53):
in a minute.
Okay.
Graye (12:55):
Alright.
I really would.
Yeah.
'cause there's a, it'ssignificant.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So essentially what that, whathappened there is she admitted
that she knew what washappening.
She admitted that she was aperpetrator and that she had,
was doing it for drugs.
And so I was, yeah.
(13:18):
So essentially I was traded forher drugs and I think partially
I didn't realize I was beingtrafficked either, especially
even when I was like slightlyolder because you hear a
trafficking story and one itfeels like foreign.
It's that happens.
Over there or over there, or tothose people.
And it's usually like peopletalking about somebody got
(13:39):
kidnapped and they were abusedthousands of times, or whatever.
And then and that wasn't mycase.
It was a lot, but it wasn't, itdidn't feel sane, so after I got
educated, I realized what wasreally happening and what had
happened to me rather.
And my husband I had to tell himwhat was going on.
He, again, he was inAfghanistan.
Our communication was verylimited.
(14:01):
I, although I did get to talk tohim a lot more than most people
do on deployment.
And so at that point when shehad confessed to me, I was so
stunned.
I think just total shock ranthrough my body.
And I told her, okay, listen, Ilove you.
I love you.
I really do.
(14:22):
I hope you know that and Iforgive you.
But we're done.
We're not having a relationshipanymore.
You will not be a part of mylife.
And that's it.
We're done.
I hung up the phone and asidefrom her breaking through to
call me one more time, yearslater, I have never heard from
(14:44):
her.
And yeah, I went through ahorrible, deep, dark depression
and lots of bright moments, onceWheeler got home from
Afghanistan and being able tomove back to North Carolina and
just be together, those weregood memories.
But also so many hard memories.
(15:04):
Me waking up in the middle ofthe night to turn on all the
lights because I'm like, I'mlosing my mind, I'm seeing stuff
and hearing things and, quitefrankly, I just think it was
flat out demonic oppression, I'mjust severely oppressed and I
developed a very heavy drinkingproblem as a coping mechanism
(15:25):
and I was working in an industryfashion that didn't really frown
on that, like drinking was justthat's what you do.
You go to a promotional event,here's have some free drinks.
You go to an after party, havesome free drinks, really
terrible environment.
Honestly, a lot of good people.
I have a lot of sweet friends.
(15:45):
One of my best friends in thewhole world was the
photographer, and we still are,big as thieves.
But even though she's a.
Across the ocean.
But yeah, so back to yourquestion, when I was 12, I went
to church camp.
My parents thought, they need asummer activity.
(16:05):
Of course, both of my parentswere working part full-time, and
so they were I'm sure trying tofind activities for us when we
were outta school, yeah.
So anyways, they, we went tochurch camp and I did the
overnight.
I don't know if my brother didat that time.
But anyway, so I stayedovernight for two weeks,
Philesha (16:21):
I think,
Graye (16:22):
and I had a great camp counselor.
She was wonderful.
I loved her.
She was very good for me.
I was able to talk to her abouta lot of things and excuse me.
Who's me?
Same time, at one point I waslistening to Michael Lincoln.
I don't dunno if anybody knowshim.
(16:43):
He was teaching the gospel and Iwas listening and I thought I
was hearing, but I reallydidn't, I really didn't take it
to heart.
What I, not because of histeaching, but because of the
follow up from others.
I was taught you need to bebaptized to be saved.
And so naturally, me and my tinylittle self, I'm like okay, then
(17:07):
baptize me.
Let's hop in the pool.
You know what I mean?
I'm like 12 years old.
I'm just out here surviving,trying to figure things out.
And so I was like, yeah, let'sdo it.
So somebody said a sinner'sprayer over me.
They didn't really have me prayor anything like that.
They just set it for me, andthen they baptized me.
And in our, at our church, wesay, that's just getting wet,
(17:30):
that's all I did.
I took a bath.
Yeah.
But the Holy Spirit was not withme.
I did not receive the HolySpirit.
I spent a lot of time talkingabout Jesus, talking about the
gospel.
Trying to minister to people ina way.
I spent a lot of time praying.
I read the Bible.
I studied really hard, I didBeth Moore studies on repeat as
(17:52):
a teenager, and learned a lotactually.
I can't say that I didn't learnanything or that those
experiences weren't good for me.
They obviously were steppingstones building blocks to
getting me to a point where Itruly met Jesus.
But I was just not, I justwasn't there.
A couple years later, I go backto camp at age 14.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'msuch a dirty sinner.
(18:14):
I'm still doing all thesethings.
Somebody help me.
I'm gonna go to hell because,I've messed it all up.
And instead of telling me ifyou're saved and you're born
again, and the Holy Spirit livesin you Then just take your
burdens to Jesus.
You're okay.
It's gonna be all right.
You have a heavenly home andyou're not supposed to be
perfect.
You're supposed to strive to beChrist-like.
But nobody told me that.
(18:36):
Instead they told me to bebaptized again.
So that's what I did.
I got baptized again.
News flash.
You did do it.
I got wet twice.
With well-meaning people,well-meaning people.
But what happened is I ended upessentially not really having
any hope, thinking this is allGod has to offer.
(19:00):
Depression, alcoholism,miscarriages.
At one point a broken marriage,my goodness, I was mean and
hateful and selfish.
Addicted massively struggledwith pornography.
I was just like, I was not whopeople thought I was.
I girl, I was real good atkeeping secrets.
(19:20):
I can tell you that.
And there's been very few peoplewho really saw it.
You know what I mean?
They didn't need to know.
They just saw it.
They discerned it in me.
And one of them was my pastorcurrently, and he's yeah,
there's something going on inher.
She's got some dark stuff goingon in her.
And he was right.
So my parents, so here's whathappened.
(19:41):
So all these years passed, I'mlike depressed and hurt.
We finally come home and I'mfeeling like a real heal.
Like I had been harshly judgedon my modeling career and just
so many things had happened at alot of church hurt.
A lot of misunderstanding aboutwho God was, what grace was,
what Mercy was.
(20:02):
And so my mom and dad had juststarted going to New Beginnings
Community Church, and theyinvited me to a revival, like a
old fashioned tent, revivaloutside, Southern.
I don't know if he's SouthernBaptist, but he's a southern man
and he's Baptist.
Okay?
Sure.
But anyway, and he was, just,hammering down on the gospel,
okay.
(20:22):
And he and my pastor as well,and I was listening and, I, I
kept coming, but y'all, I wasshowing up after drinking and
smoking and being hot and, justsitting there listening to this
guy okay, yeah.
I've tried.
Yeah.
I've tried.
Nothing's changing.
I'm reading my Bible.
(20:43):
I, how many times have I hit myface?
To the floor, praying, crying,screaming out to God to fix it,
to take these burdens from meand nothing.
And so at some point I realizedthat I was maybe doing things
(21:05):
the wrong way.
But not before I had my firstchild when she was two, three
months old.
I don't totally remember.
No, she would've been older thanthat.
Just, it doesn't matter.
Point is she was an infant.
Okay.
He was fresh.
Like I said, we were going backand forth to Idaho.
My husband had been workingthere and we were not estranged,
(21:29):
but we were trained.
Really just having a hard timecommunicating, understanding one
another.
A lot of hurt.
Was dealt on both sides.
And I didn't see a way out ofit, quite frankly.
I just, I thought, man, my gosh,we're just gonna be unhappy for
the rest of our marriage,'causewe just can't seem to get it
together.
(21:49):
Yeah.
And I was, I was on the phonewith my pastor and another
friend that's a deacon at ourchurch being like, oh, my
husband's just not a leader.
He's not doing this well, he'snot doing that well, I wish he'd
read his Bible more, or I wishhe'd pray over me more.
I wish he'd do this.
Why isn't he this way?
And the whole time that thesetwo men were ministering to me,
(22:10):
praying for me, counseling me,they had no idea that they were
actually just working on myheart, who I was.
Because what happened is Wheelerand I had this big blow up fight
and I realized, okay,something's gotta give.
I'm doing something wrong here.
We were living in a camper.
We had an RV up there and he wasworking late.
(22:33):
His parents had.
Taking me and the baby up toIdaho, they were gonna stay for
a few weeks and we were sittingin the camper and it was like
midnight, one in the morning,somewhere like that.
The guys were out workinghauling cattle and so he and his
mom and I, we went and put thebaby in bed and she's let's just
watch a movie.
We'll just stay up till the guysget home.
(22:55):
I was like, yeah, that soundsgreat.
So we turned on a movie.
It was wonderful.
At some point we start talkingabout the recent events and I
just told her, I just don't knowwhat to do.
I really don't know what to do.
I feel totally hopeless rightnow.
I feel I've got this baby that Iprayed for 10 years for this is
all I ever wanted was to be amom.
(23:16):
All these things and everythingjust feels like it's falling
apart and, she said gray, andit's very typical for her.
All I know is to just pray aboutit.
So let's go before the Lord.
So she hit her knees on the RVcouch and she said, come on, get
down here.
And I sat down beside her andshe said, I'll start and you can
finish.
(23:36):
So she started praying.
And about the time I got twowords outta my mouth.
I was hit with the Holy Spirit.
And I knew for the first time inmy life who God was, and I knew
that I could be saved.
I knew that I could have aneternal home.
Charity (23:59):
Amen.
Graye (24:00):
So I cried out to him with a genuine heart.
Finally, instead of just cryingout to a God who I thought might
be out there to fix my problems,instead I repented.
And I told him how sorry I wasand I received his forgiveness,
his grace, his mercy.
(24:20):
And when Wheeler came home, Iunloaded everything.
I was like, so listen, me andyour mom were praying I got
saved.
And he's what?
I thought you were saved.
And I was like, listen, I'mreally sorry about that.
I wasn't, because you know whathe thought I was, he thought I
was encouraged him when we gotmarried.
And I honestly, so did I to bethere.
And so I just I'm, telling himI'm just so excited.
(24:44):
'cause I'm like, I finally justfeel like I received the Holy
Spirit and my weight is justgone, and I'm to say there was
no struggle.
Like the struggle was stillthere, but I had a hope, I had
finally gotten a hope in Christand I felt like I had new tools
and a new a new resolve.
I knew how to move forward fromthat point.
And so I just resolved to be agood wife.
(25:06):
I resolved to be Christlike tomy husband and to love him no
matter what we were dealingwith.
And in hopes that it would bereturned.
And it was, it was, because, andthere were, there a time came
when my husband said, I'venoticed the change in you.
I've seen it.
You're different.
And it's because, and this isvery important to me to say and
(25:26):
it's been heavy on my mindlately, but it's because I died,
I literally died and was bornagain.
The old me is fully gone.
Praise the Lord.
Yes.
And so with that, I, I gave updrinking and I gave up smoking.
I I didn't drink during mypregnancy, but Yeah.
Or smoke but I gave up, allthose things gave up getting
(25:46):
high and.
All my vices, are just gone.
They're just gone.
Because for the first time, Iwent from feeling guilty to
truly grieving the fact that Ihad hurt the father with my
sins.
And that being said, the verynext day my husband baptized me
in one of the most beautifulplaces in the whole world.
(26:09):
And it was freezing.
It was like 45 degrees water,and I would have no regrets.
And yeah, so with confidence,it's where all my foot is
asleep, but with confidence.
Now I can say that I know thatI'll be with Jesus eternally.
And before that moment in mylife, I knew full well in my
(26:31):
spirit that I was gonna go tohell.
I knew it.
I knew it.
And I ignored it and I waitedfar too long.
That is the greatest regret inmy life.
I'm not a person who hasregrets, but I had one and said,
I just didn't know Jesus sooner.
What a beautiful story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Philesha (26:50):
That moved me a great deal.
'cause girl, I relate to a lotof what you said.
I had been exposed to alcoholand marijuana at such a young
age, and it was like, myparents' philosophy was you're
gonna do it, so you might aswell do it with me.
And I, that set me up forfailure.
(27:12):
Lot of people so many years.
Yes.
And my grandpa, my papa, he wasmy very best friend.
And he wasn't just a majorpothead.
He just, he, his philosophy was,I'll smoke till I die.
And so it was like a, it was abonding thing for me and him for
such a long time.
And.
It really wasn't until he waslike on his deathbed that he
(27:33):
accepted Jesus.
But for a long time I felt likeI was working against my family.
I told her parents this when wesat down, like I felt like I was
really trying to grasps whoJesus was and my family was just
not, they weren't there but meactively seeking Jesus, I feel
like has made a change in myfamily.
(27:54):
And now my dad, my real dad whohave, he had addiction problems
and things like that, that he'sturned his life around.
And so his relationship withJesus fuels my desire to have a
strong relationship with Jesus.
And same with my mom.
Yeah.
But I had to fight against theYeah.
(28:14):
Generational curse of addiction.
Graye (28:16):
Yeah.
Philesha (28:17):
And I had a moment, honestly, it wasn't too long
ago, I don't remember exactlywhen, but I was just like I used
alcohol as a crutch.
And when I realized what it was,'cause I just justified it in my
mind.
Like I I'm not an alcoholic, Idon't need it every day.
But it was something that I wasreaching for that instead of the
(28:37):
Bible.
Graye (28:38):
Yeah.
Philesha (28:39):
And I realized that, and I had one of those moments
where I just fell to my kneesand was like, God, forgive me.
I'm so sorry.
So yeah, definitely there'sstrength in talking about it.
Sure.
But also a lot of strength inletting that go.
Letting Jesus exactly.
Take that.
From you.
It's, but yeah.
I'm so glad that you're sharingwhat you're, what you went
(29:02):
through.
I just, one thing that gets me,and I know you've forgiven your
mom, and that's only Jesus cangive you the strength to do
that.
And it's so hard for me not tojudge that because as having
kids, like that's the mostpurest, most innocent life.
How could you ever do anythingto defile that?
Put them in harm's way?
(29:24):
I just, yeah.
Graye (29:25):
I did, I went through a little bit of time where I was
feeling a regenerated angerafter having my first baby.
But God dealt with it with mepretty quickly.
I think the biggest issue comingfrom that was.
Like having the irrational fearthat I'm gonna somehow do to my
(29:47):
kids.
Anything that she's overdone.
Which I'm obviously not, I'm notgoing to make those choices.
The thing is the reason that Ican forgive her, obviously yes,
is Jesus, but it's because theLord taught me about my own
sins.
And like I tell everybody this,her story is not really mine to
tell, but, and I'm not givingher excuses.
(30:11):
There's reasons, no excuses, butthe things that she experienced
were pretty rough too, she hadsome really difficult things to
get through in her life as well.
And yeah, where she's at isself-inflicted, but it came from
a place of hurt.
And lack of hope and need forconnection.
And I pray that she breaks freefrom that.
(30:32):
I really do.
And I've actually resolved thatif I ever did see her again, if
it was safe I would share thegospel with her again.
I would tell her where I've beenand what I've done.
I don't think I could've donethat a few years ago, before
really truly meeting Jesus.
But yeah, praise
Charity (30:51):
the Lord for that.
Praise the Lord for forgiveness.
And I think it's so beautifulbecause like to me, when you go
through something and you canstill forgive, it makes me think
there's little things that like,I'm like, man, those people did
me so wrong.
But ultimately, like you seepeople that go through way more.
And they're, and they canforgive.
Graye (31:13):
And it makes you say, okay, who am I to forgive?
It's saying, Jesus,
Charity (31:17):
you're not enough to cover what they did.
And it is very if you're notforgiving, it is not Christlike
at all.
And then I'm preaching to thechoir because, I'm still working
on forgiving people that don'tcare if I forgive'em or not, or
could care less.
Graye (31:32):
Yeah.
Charity (31:33):
And so it's kinda oh, okay, how do I truly forgive
this person?
But ultimately, like I know inthe back of my head, okay, you
could do X, Y, and Z and youcould, oh, bring to the choir
over here.
Because I'm like, come on Jody,you just really need to work on
truly forgiving, But anyways,basically I need to do better
on.
Yeah,
Graye (31:51):
we all do.
We all do.
We all do.
It hits us all at differenttimes, for sure.
I did wanna say you were talkingabout there should have been
signs, like surely somebody sawit from the outside something
that people don't always realizeor don't take seriously enough
is the fact that people,especially children, but also
adults, but especially childrenwho are put in a situation where
(32:12):
they're being threatened withtheir life or others' lives
carry the responsibility andweight of another person's life.
In their mind.
It may not be true.
It might be true to an extentthat they would actually fall
through on those actions, butit's not likely.
However, a child does not knowthe difference.
Therefore they weren't gettingany signals from me,
(32:34):
necessarily.
Because you're purposelyprobably hiding it since you
were scared.
Absolutely, 100%.
And I will say, there were othere were other things as well,
like my birth mom also hitthings really well.
Aside from, the abusive stepdad.
My dad didn't necessarily haveany reason to believe, and my
stepmom that she was beinghorrendous.
(32:58):
There was a period of time whereit was like, eh, she's not a
great mom, but whatever, but.
She was mean, really wasn't agreat mom, but still, it wasn't
like, oh my gosh, she's on meth,or she's trying heroin, or she's
prostituting herself, orwhatever.
It wasn't like that.
Charity (33:14):
Yeah.
Graye (33:15):
Until later when it was like, okay, now we're like
pretty sure she's, she can itanymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's using and abusing.
And that being said I'm justvery sensitive to that because
my dad is such a protector andhe, my dad would ask us
(33:35):
frequently, he asked us, hasanyone touched you
inappropriately?
Are you unsafe?
Are you okay?
And I would say, yes, we're fineevery single time.
What is a man supposed to do?
What are you supposed to do?
He did everything that he wassupposed to try and, no.
What was happening?
(33:55):
And so also then you take intoaccount repressed memory.
There's also a period of timethereafter where I shut it all
out.
My, but my birth mom, she hid alot of things from him, a lot of
things.
Just one small example, just forthe weight of his story.
I have a little scar here.
You can't really see it anymoreif you, unless you get really
(34:17):
close.
But my eye got split open righthere.
And the story that was told wasthat I was hit with a toy, like
a crispy and I was, but she hitme with it.
And it was like this disc and itsplit my face open, and so I had
to go to the ER and, getstitched up.
(34:37):
So it's just like little thingslike that.
Like what else?
What else are you supposed todo?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Okay.
And my, my dad took such goodcare of me even through that,
he's the one that came, and Iremember I sat on the tailgate
of his truck while he took mysutures out.
He took'em out himself and,checked up on me and everything
took really good care of us.
But no parent's.
(34:57):
Perfect.
And my my mother-in-law told meone time, she said, I think that
when you have adult children andyou look back, you realize that
there are things you justcouldn't have known about your
children.
Yeah.
And that's a tough pill toswallow, but it is the truth.
You just couldn't have knownsome things.
And that's where raising yourchildren in the mindset of
(35:20):
Christ comes into play.
In one area.
Obviously it should come intoplay the whole time, but yeah.
Anyway, I just wanted to addthat's, I just think that's
important.
Because you just, you reallyjust never know.
Philesha (35:33):
Hundred percent.
So one aspect I wanna ask youabout is, since you have come to
be more confident about tellingyour story, are, is there
organizations that you want towork with or have worked with or
any attention you wanna bring?
Graye (35:55):
Okay.
There, there are a couple oforganizations that I admire.
And I I haven't necessarilyworked with any organizations.
There, I have talked about it inthe past and talked with some
people that were interested ingetting me there.
I'm, it's not really the seasonfor me.
I'm raising small children.
And I really want to focus onthat.
(36:15):
Yeah.
But I still share my story acouple, a couple of places to
name, one being local, tower ofH Mill is a new recovery place.
They haven't been there verylong.
For women, I just think whatthey're doing is really great.
Also, daughters of the OtherSide is really exceptional as
far as recovery.
(36:36):
Addiction, recovery that's crestcentered.
But for Sex trafficking, humantrafficking and whatnot, I would
say hope 61, hope for Justice.
Those are great organizations.
Philesha (36:48):
The Tim Tebow Foundation is I've been so
passionate about sextrafficking.
And just helping families whohave gone through addiction and
children who go through childabuse specifically.
Yeah.
It's such a I don't know whatelse to do.
So I've partnered with Tim Tebowand I have a.
Like a donation page basically.
(37:08):
Sure.
So that's the only thing I knowto do right now, except for also
having you on the podcast andtalking about your story,
bringing it, bringing attentionto it.
Is, and I know that social mediadoes a great job of talking
about it already.
But I don't know, you just, Ifeel like there needs to be more
(37:28):
heart to it instead ofsensationalizing.
Absolutely.
The politicizing it that drivesme nuts.
Graye (37:35):
Yeah.
Philesha (37:36):
And that should not be Republican, Democrat.
I don't care who you are.
We should take notice of that,not just not just the illegal
immigration, but like it's, ithappened to you literally in our
local area.
Yeah.
It's happening.
Whether you realize it or not,
Graye (37:51):
the numbers are astronomically high in Arkansas.
It's pretty alarming actually.
Philesha (37:56):
Yeah, my mom was a social worker and dealt with
stuff like this all the time,and I'm just like, that's
another reason why I wish thatthere was more I could do and
I'm praying Jesus right now.
If there's more I can do, I wantto do it.
Graye (38:08):
There is, I've got context for you.
Yes.
Philesha (38:10):
I I'm just gonna look at my notes to make sure I'm not
leaving anything out.
Okay.
This was a question I wrotedown.
What would you say to someonethat went through what you went
through who hasn't quite turnedthe corner like you have?
Graye (38:24):
If there was any, like they are post half post event.
Philesha (38:28):
Yeah.
Graye (38:28):
I feel like the answer's pretty obvious, but just I would
pray that they would find Jesusmuch sooner than I did.
To know that no vice of anykind, drink, drugs, men, food,
anything.
Anything.
Anything.
I think we don't get enoughweight to all the other ways
that you can have a vice.
(38:49):
Get to grief.
They got like a whole show aboutstrange addictions, yeah.
You're phone constantly.
Do you disconnect?
Do you disassociate?
Do push people away?
It's not worth it.
It's not worth it at all.
Have real raw relationships.
Talk about what you need to talkabout.
Don't be afraid of people whoset boundaries.
Love them and lean into thembecause they're good for you.
(39:11):
And but obviously, namely thevery most important is to just
seek Jesus, seek the word, andknow that there's hope and know
that you can be healed from it.
Because the fact, y'all, I, goodgrief, I, there was a time where
I don't think I could havephysically sat here and said a
word that I've said today, usedto, even in a private one-on-one
(39:32):
set, setting, telling a friendor somebody about it was almost
unimaginable.
And now I can do this calm in myspirit, like my body's calm.
So that, that's that, I know fora fact that Jesus can help
anyone and everyone, and we allneed it.
And not to be heart of heart andknow that.
(39:55):
'cause I know a lot of peoplesay why this?
God let bad things happen togood people, it's because there
are no good people.
None of us are good.
No matter your sins, I don'tcare if you lie to your fourth
grade teacher and that's allyou'll confess to, you're a
sinner.
You need him.
Charity (40:08):
This isn't heaven.
So evil things are gonna happenbecause this isn't heaven.
This is the world.
There's a, like the devil is theking of this world, and he's the
one running around trying tohave his demons influence
everybody to do evil things
Graye (40:26):
The word evil, I think is very off putting to so many
people.
But the truth is that's what itis,
Philesha (40:32):
right?
Graye (40:33):
Evil is the word because we have this chronic heart, and
if you're honest with yourselfand you think about what's going
on in your brain.
You would know that's true.
Charity (40:44):
Because like your goal is to be Christlike, which is
perfection.
But obviously no one's going tobe God, Jesus you're just not,
clearly, or we wouldn't needJesus and just the people that
could,
Graye (40:56):
Yeah.
No, it's a result of a fallenworld.
Charity (40:58):
Exactly.
Yeah.
But,
Graye (41:00):
Yeah,
Philesha (41:00):
Yeah.
I appreciate you coming so muchand sharing your story
seriously.
Yes.
And thank
Graye (41:06):
y'all.
Thank you for letting me dothat.
Glory to God, I a hundredpercent.
I just, I used to tell thatstory for me for coping, and now
it is, it's truly for him.
I just want people to know Jesuswhen they hear that.
Philesha (41:21):
Amen.
Graye (41:22):
That's it.
Philesha (41:23):
One of the like, principle things that started
this podcast was the story ofthe woman at the well.
And how.
She didn't tell Jesus anythingabout her life, but he knew.
And he was like, girl, youbetter get right.
And then she was like, oh my,you are Jesus.
And then she goes and tellseverybody, and that's the thing
(41:44):
that we want to take and give toeverybody who's listening is
that's why we're doing this.
To tell everybody.
Just tell everybody.
Yep.
Graye (41:51):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Philesha (41:53):
But yeah, it's definitely something that, I
know this episode was it hadreally hard topics covered, but
Jesus can break through anythingand over, you can overcome
everything through him.
So your testament to that forsure.
thanks Gray for coming.
So glad she's such a sweetperson.
Such a good friend.
Such a beautiful story.
And excited to hear what she hasto say.
And I appreciate Felicia for theupdates in the room,
Graye (00:31):
making the lights look so good and working so hard Yeah,
I'm super excited.
I got
Philesha (00:35):
here early today'cause I was like pumped.
Anyways, to have someone herethat I just, I don't know you
except for when I worked at thegym.
Yeah.
You were just a regular gymgoer.
And what charity has said isjust that you're super sweet and
have a really good story.
I'm excited to hear it andwhatever you feel comfortable
sharing.
Yeah, because I told her, she, I
Charity (00:55):
said, I don't know what she's gonna share.
She'll share whatever she wantsto share.
Yeah.
Either way.
I know you love the Lord, and Iknow that the Lord's impacted
your life and you have a storytell about it.
Yeah.
Graye (01:05):
I'm pretty seasoned at this point, honestly, so I'm
like pretty comfortable with it,Okay.
So I was born and raised in CyArkansas, and my parents were
semi-local people too.
They we lived in Cy when I wasborn, like I just said.
(01:26):
They were married for a littlewhile.
Got divorced when I was fourmaybe five.
And I also had a little brotherat the time, a 1-year-old
brother.
And then eventually both myparents remarried and had joint
custody with me and my brother.
They.
(01:46):
So my birth mom whom I refer tothat way because my stepmom is
who I consider to be my mom.
She did the raising and is stillaround and I love her very
dearly.
But my birth mom and my dad,after their divorce and getting
remarried and everything we weredoing like the back and forth
thing for a really long time.
(02:08):
And my my stepdad was a veryabusive man.
He he didn't hurt us.
I can't really speak for hischildren.
But we did witness him hittingour birth mom a lot.
There was a lot of altercationsand there was a lot of times
where, my dad had to come play,rescue and pick us up and then
(02:31):
there'd be court visits and,litigation and.
All the things that come withsituations like that.
And then we we would it was likea, it was like dependent on our
birth mom's behavior, I guessyou could say, and her decision
patterns.
Whether or not we were seeingher every weekend or every other
(02:51):
weekend, or, there were timesthere were a couple times where
she was just gone, we reallydidn't see her for a long time.
One time.
I didn't see her for a wholeyear, yeah.
But I have been in CCE until Iwas married.
Got married when I was 19 andmoved to North Carolina with my
(03:11):
husband.
He was in the Marine Corps.
he served four years in theMarines and then he was
medically discharged and wemoved back to cce.
And we have been here eversince.
'cause he had a trucking companyand we sort of did that for a
little while.
We haul campers and did allthat.
And then we just fell into ourlab.
We ended up working out ofIdaho, doing agri he was doing
(03:32):
agricultural trucking, but I waswith him.
We were going back and forthfrom Arkansas to Idaho, Arkansas
to Idaho.
And then we landed back here,and now we're trying to get
settled.
But as far as as far as me, I,like I said, I got married when
I was 19 and then we we tried tohave children for about 10 years
and I had about fivemiscarriages and a lot of
(03:55):
heartache, a lot of heartachewith that.
And eventually I got pregnantwith my firstborn daughter.
And nine months ago I hadanother little girl.
So we are very blessed to have afull, joyous household and
hopefully there'll be many morepraise the Lord.
Yes, absolutely.
(04:16):
And as far as when I was a childthat's really, I guess the meat
of my story.
The precursor to me meetingJesus.
But when I was seven I, I wasbeing trafficked actually in
Arkansas and not too far fromhere.
(04:38):
I was trafficked from seven toroughly 11 years old, and I was
threatened and really made to beextremely afraid.
Of what would happen if I toldsomeone, if I went to my dad or
my mom and said, somebody'shurting me, or I don't feel
(05:00):
comfortable going to this placeor that place.
I was made to think that I'mgonna be seriously hurt like
that.
I'm gonna kill you.
I'm gonna kill your parents.
I'm gonna kill your mom.
I'll hunt down your brother.
You know, I mean, basically anytactic to make me scared enough
not to tell their secrets
Philesha (05:19):
Do you think people in your life knew without knowing?
Graye (05:22):
No.
Philesha (05:22):
No.
Graye (05:23):
So this is what has been, that part has been extremely
difficult for me.
Because I ha I struggled for along time, not really wanting to
talk publicly about it.
Yeah.
Because I didn't want to bringany shame to my dad and my
stepmom because they are greatparents.
And they are not unaware people.
(05:45):
So that's actually where it getsinteresting.
So because they were policeofficers,
Philesha (05:49):
So they know now.
I'm sure they do.
Okay.
Graye (05:52):
So, okay.
So when I, when was newlymarried.
My husband went to Afghanistanon deployment.
He was gone for nine months.
During that time, I I went to Iwas, okay.
So I had, I still had arelationship with my birth mom
(06:14):
until that point, until I waslike 1920.
I don't remember.
I would've been, 20 by then.
But I still technically had arelationship with her, albeit a
codependent, terriblerelationship.
It was a relationship, and in mymind I was like, oh, I can reach
her.
I can help her get better.
She was an addict and she is anaddict.
And honestly, for anyonelistening to this, I pray for
(06:37):
her.
I mean, I would, I spend, y'allhave left oceans of tears at the
altar for that woman because Iwant her to know Jesus.
And I want that to be, that'sreally important to me for
everybody to know that before Itell the rest of this.
But when.
You know what I hope she gets tolisten to this someday.
I really do.
A hundred percent.
But when I was, when he was inAfghanistan, I was trying to
(07:00):
spend time with her, and I I hadpicked her up one day from her
house and we were gonna go tolunch or something, I don't
remember, but we were just gonnaspend some time together.
She asked me to make a stop, andI probably should have known
better than to do that.
But I was just giving her thebenefit of the doubt, and I was
(07:21):
in control.
I was driving the vehicle.
So I thought, okay, so we, shetells me where to go, and we're
driving down this road, and aswe're getting to the end of it,
it's pretty long like driveway,I see this house and it was
like.
An avalanche of memories andfeelings and just totally,
(07:47):
completely overwhelming.
And I had all these flashbacksand I started just remembering
things, and I was like, oh mygosh, no I'm crazy.
Like I'm losing my mind rightnow.
I'm really, I'm certifiablyinsane.
This is ridiculous.
Why would I think that, reallychastised myself for it.
And at the time I was livingwith my in-laws I was waiting on
back base housing while he wasin Afghanistan.
(08:09):
'cause we were still, likereally fresh married, before he
left.
And I went to I, I came, I,sorry.
She, so she comes, she gets backin the car and I'm like, no, I'm
leaving.
I've gotta go.
I don't wanna be here anymore.
I'm taking you home.
And she's oh my gosh.
Stop freaking out.
I was like, I'm, I just don'twanna be here.
And she's okay.
(08:30):
I dropped her off, I went backhome.
I sat with myself for a longtime.
Eventually I talked to mymother-in-law a little bit about
what I experienced and sheinformed me,'cause she's a psych
nurse and a very gogglingfaithful woman.
She told me that it is possibleto suppress memories as a
(08:52):
survival tactic and that it'snot just possible, but
incredibly common.
And so that's essentially whathappened to me.
And I used to be really nervousabout saying that because people
were like, oh, okay, sure.
Oh, no.
But I think it's becoming morepeople are becoming more aware
of that possibility.
Like it really is just yourbrain's survival mode.
(09:13):
What I, knowand and it was just,I thought I was certifiably
insane.
At one point.
I hadn't even told mymother-in-law like, I need to be
admitted somewhere because I'mjust not I'm not okay.
My brain is not okay.
And it was like, it's taken aphysical toll on me, and so she
said, I think maybe you shouldwrite a letter to your birth mom
(09:34):
and lay some things out.
Maybe you just need someboundaries.
Of which I had none.
I knew, I didn't know, I didn'tknow anything about drawing
lines in the sand for myself, Iwas just winging it, with
relationships.
And so I I took her advice and Iwrote a letter.
In that letter I simplyexplained to her, I as a
(09:57):
product, first of all, Iactually started the letter by
saying, I love you.
I forgive you for everythingthat you put us through and for
all the bad decisions you'vemade.
And I hope that you get better,and I hope that you turn your
life around.
But I want you to know that Ilove you, and there's so many
things I love about you.
But because of your actions,because of your decisions and
the situations you put us in,all I said was I was raped and I
(10:21):
was put in bad situations overand over again.
And so I really, I'm having ahard time right now, and I need
to draw some boundaries.
And so my boundaries were, I'llmeet you in town if you want to
go get lunch, or, that's prettymuch it.
We can meet in town, that's agood boundary.
We can meet in town, but I'm notgonna come to your house.
You're not gonna come to myhouse.
You're just, we're done, we'redone for now.
(10:43):
And and I need you to respectthis.
And of course, she was nothaving it.
I delivered it to her.
I left and she called me almostimmediately cursing, screaming,
how dare you if you were raped,why didn't you tell anybody?
And I was like, okay.
As a part of that, when I waslike 12 years old.
(11:04):
I actually did try to tell herthat I had been raped.
I, I tried to tell her what washappening to me, and she called
me a liar.
And I just shut up after that.
I just was quiet.
I didn't say anything.
I, and so moving forward to thisletter, she was just not taking
(11:26):
it well, and I thought, oh mygosh.
I just need a break, like awhole total cutoff break.
And so I told her, I said, thisis not over.
I'm not cutting you out.
I just really need some space.
So respect my wishes and pleasedo not call or text me.
Just give me a couple weeks tosit on this.
(11:47):
And she couldn't do that.
She called me.
Pretty much I don't like nextday, two days later, something
like that.
Pretty much right away she wastexting me, calling me.
At some point, I finallyanswered the phone and I said,
Hey.
Remember what I said, I justneeded some time.
You can't seem to respect any ofthe boundaries that I've set in
place, so I'm gonna have to askyou to truly back off I'm gonna
(12:12):
have to change my number orsomething.
This is not gonna work.
At that point she really startedto lay into me about my letter
and the things that I said in itand said, basically again,
calling me a liar, tellingpeople that I was mentally ill.
She's gonna tell people I'mmentally ill.
She's going to make sure thateverybody knows that I'm a liar.
(12:33):
I was like, you can tell peoplewhatever you want.
It's not true.
That's on you and my characteris gonna stand.
Philesha (12:40):
Can I ask you, at this point, are you following Christ
or is that what's aiding you inthis, you think that Christ was
like.
Working through you in thismoment.
Graye (12:51):
I would love to tell you about that
Philesha (12:53):
in a minute.
Okay.
Graye (12:55):
Alright.
I really would.
Yeah.
'cause there's a, it'ssignificant.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So essentially what that, whathappened there is she admitted
that she knew what washappening.
She admitted that she was aperpetrator and that she had,
was doing it for drugs.
And so I was, yeah.
(13:18):
So essentially I was traded forher drugs and I think partially
I didn't realize I was beingtrafficked either, especially
even when I was like slightlyolder because you hear a
trafficking story and one itfeels like foreign.
It's that happens.
Over there or over there, or tothose people.
And it's usually like peopletalking about somebody got
(13:39):
kidnapped and they were abusedthousands of times, or whatever.
And then and that wasn't mycase.
It was a lot, but it wasn't, itdidn't feel sane, so after I got
educated, I realized what wasreally happening and what had
happened to me rather.
And my husband I had to tell himwhat was going on.
He, again, he was inAfghanistan.
Our communication was verylimited.
(14:01):
I, although I did get to talk tohim a lot more than most people
do on deployment.
And so at that point when shehad confessed to me, I was so
stunned.
I think just total shock ranthrough my body.
And I told her, okay, listen, Ilove you.
I love you.
I really do.
(14:22):
I hope you know that and Iforgive you.
But we're done.
We're not having a relationshipanymore.
You will not be a part of mylife.
And that's it.
We're done.
I hung up the phone and asidefrom her breaking through to
call me one more time, yearslater, I have never heard from
(14:44):
her.
And yeah, I went through ahorrible, deep, dark depression
and lots of bright moments, onceWheeler got home from
Afghanistan and being able tomove back to North Carolina and
just be together, those weregood memories.
But also so many hard memories.
(15:04):
Me waking up in the middle ofthe night to turn on all the
lights because I'm like, I'mlosing my mind, I'm seeing stuff
and hearing things and, quitefrankly, I just think it was
flat out demonic oppression, I'mjust severely oppressed and I
developed a very heavy drinkingproblem as a coping mechanism
(15:25):
and I was working in an industryfashion that didn't really frown
on that, like drinking was justthat's what you do.
You go to a promotional event,here's have some free drinks.
You go to an after party, havesome free drinks, really
terrible environment.
Honestly, a lot of good people.
I have a lot of sweet friends.
(15:45):
One of my best friends in thewhole world was the
photographer, and we still are,big as thieves.
But even though she's a.
Across the ocean.
But yeah, so back to yourquestion, when I was 12, I went
to church camp.
My parents thought, they need asummer activity.
(16:05):
Of course, both of my parentswere working part full-time, and
so they were I'm sure trying tofind activities for us when we
were outta school, yeah.
So anyways, they, we went tochurch camp and I did the
overnight.
I don't know if my brother didat that time.
But anyway, so I stayedovernight for two weeks,
Philesha (16:21):
I think,
Graye (16:22):
and I had a great camp counselor.
She was wonderful.
I loved her.
She was very good for me.
I was able to talk to her abouta lot of things and excuse me.
Who's me?
Same time, at one point I waslistening to Michael Lincoln.
I don't dunno if anybody knowshim.
(16:43):
He was teaching the gospel and Iwas listening and I thought I
was hearing, but I reallydidn't, I really didn't take it
to heart.
What I, not because of histeaching, but because of the
follow up from others.
I was taught you need to bebaptized to be saved.
And so naturally, me and my tinylittle self, I'm like okay, then
(17:07):
baptize me.
Let's hop in the pool.
You know what I mean?
I'm like 12 years old.
I'm just out here surviving,trying to figure things out.
And so I was like, yeah, let'sdo it.
So somebody said a sinner'sprayer over me.
They didn't really have me prayor anything like that.
They just set it for me, andthen they baptized me.
And in our, at our church, wesay, that's just getting wet,
(17:30):
that's all I did.
I took a bath.
Yeah.
But the Holy Spirit was not withme.
I did not receive the HolySpirit.
I spent a lot of time talkingabout Jesus, talking about the
gospel.
Trying to minister to people ina way.
I spent a lot of time praying.
I read the Bible.
I studied really hard, I didBeth Moore studies on repeat as
(17:52):
a teenager, and learned a lotactually.
I can't say that I didn't learnanything or that those
experiences weren't good for me.
They obviously were steppingstones building blocks to
getting me to a point where Itruly met Jesus.
But I was just not, I justwasn't there.
A couple years later, I go backto camp at age 14.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'msuch a dirty sinner.
(18:14):
I'm still doing all thesethings.
Somebody help me.
I'm gonna go to hell because,I've messed it all up.
And instead of telling me ifyou're saved and you're born
again, and the Holy Spirit livesin you Then just take your
burdens to Jesus.
You're okay.
It's gonna be all right.
You have a heavenly home andyou're not supposed to be
perfect.
You're supposed to strive to beChrist-like.
But nobody told me that.
(18:36):
Instead they told me to bebaptized again.
So that's what I did.
I got baptized again.
News flash.
You did do it.
I got wet twice.
With well-meaning people,well-meaning people.
But what happened is I ended upessentially not really having
any hope, thinking this is allGod has to offer.
(19:00):
Depression, alcoholism,miscarriages.
At one point a broken marriage,my goodness, I was mean and
hateful and selfish.
Addicted massively struggledwith pornography.
I was just like, I was not whopeople thought I was.
I girl, I was real good atkeeping secrets.
(19:20):
I can tell you that.
And there's been very few peoplewho really saw it.
You know what I mean?
They didn't need to know.
They just saw it.
They discerned it in me.
And one of them was my pastorcurrently, and he's yeah,
there's something going on inher.
She's got some dark stuff goingon in her.
And he was right.
So my parents, so here's whathappened.
(19:41):
So all these years passed, I'mlike depressed and hurt.
We finally come home and I'mfeeling like a real heal.
Like I had been harshly judgedon my modeling career and just
so many things had happened at alot of church hurt.
A lot of misunderstanding aboutwho God was, what grace was,
what Mercy was.
(20:02):
And so my mom and dad had juststarted going to New Beginnings
Community Church, and theyinvited me to a revival, like a
old fashioned tent, revivaloutside, Southern.
I don't know if he's SouthernBaptist, but he's a southern man
and he's Baptist.
Okay?
Sure.
But anyway, and he was, just,hammering down on the gospel,
okay.
(20:22):
And he and my pastor as well,and I was listening and, I, I
kept coming, but y'all, I wasshowing up after drinking and
smoking and being hot and, justsitting there listening to this
guy okay, yeah.
I've tried.
Yeah.
I've tried.
Nothing's changing.
I'm reading my Bible.
(20:43):
I, how many times have I hit myface?
To the floor, praying, crying,screaming out to God to fix it,
to take these burdens from meand nothing.
And so at some point I realizedthat I was maybe doing things
(21:05):
the wrong way.
But not before I had my firstchild when she was two, three
months old.
I don't totally remember.
No, she would've been older thanthat.
Just, it doesn't matter.
Point is she was an infant.
Okay.
He was fresh.
Like I said, we were going backand forth to Idaho.
My husband had been workingthere and we were not estranged,
(21:29):
but we were trained.
Really just having a hard timecommunicating, understanding one
another.
A lot of hurt.
Was dealt on both sides.
And I didn't see a way out ofit, quite frankly.
I just, I thought, man, my gosh,we're just gonna be unhappy for
the rest of our marriage,'causewe just can't seem to get it
together.
(21:49):
Yeah.
And I was, I was on the phonewith my pastor and another
friend that's a deacon at ourchurch being like, oh, my
husband's just not a leader.
He's not doing this well, he'snot doing that well, I wish he'd
read his Bible more, or I wishhe'd pray over me more.
I wish he'd do this.
Why isn't he this way?
And the whole time that thesetwo men were ministering to me,
(22:10):
praying for me, counseling me,they had no idea that they were
actually just working on myheart, who I was.
Because what happened is Wheelerand I had this big blow up fight
and I realized, okay,something's gotta give.
I'm doing something wrong here.
We were living in a camper.
We had an RV up there and he wasworking late.
(22:33):
His parents had.
Taking me and the baby up toIdaho, they were gonna stay for
a few weeks and we were sittingin the camper and it was like
midnight, one in the morning,somewhere like that.
The guys were out workinghauling cattle and so he and his
mom and I, we went and put thebaby in bed and she's let's just
watch a movie.
We'll just stay up till the guysget home.
(22:55):
I was like, yeah, that soundsgreat.
So we turned on a movie.
It was wonderful.
At some point we start talkingabout the recent events and I
just told her, I just don't knowwhat to do.
I really don't know what to do.
I feel totally hopeless rightnow.
I feel I've got this baby that Iprayed for 10 years for this is
all I ever wanted was to be amom.
(23:16):
All these things and everythingjust feels like it's falling
apart and, she said gray, andit's very typical for her.
All I know is to just pray aboutit.
So let's go before the Lord.
So she hit her knees on the RVcouch and she said, come on, get
down here.
And I sat down beside her andshe said, I'll start and you can
finish.
(23:36):
So she started praying.
And about the time I got twowords outta my mouth.
I was hit with the Holy Spirit.
And I knew for the first time inmy life who God was, and I knew
that I could be saved.
I knew that I could have aneternal home.
Charity (23:59):
Amen.
Graye (24:00):
So I cried out to him with a genuine heart.
Finally, instead of just cryingout to a God who I thought might
be out there to fix my problems,instead I repented.
And I told him how sorry I wasand I received his forgiveness,
his grace, his mercy.
(24:20):
And when Wheeler came home, Iunloaded everything.
I was like, so listen, me andyour mom were praying I got
saved.
And he's what?
I thought you were saved.
And I was like, listen, I'mreally sorry about that.
I wasn't, because you know whathe thought I was, he thought I
was encouraged him when we gotmarried.
And I honestly, so did I to bethere.
And so I just I'm, telling himI'm just so excited.
(24:44):
'cause I'm like, I finally justfeel like I received the Holy
Spirit and my weight is justgone, and I'm to say there was
no struggle.
Like the struggle was stillthere, but I had a hope, I had
finally gotten a hope in Christand I felt like I had new tools
and a new a new resolve.
I knew how to move forward fromthat point.
And so I just resolved to be agood wife.
(25:06):
I resolved to be Christlike tomy husband and to love him no
matter what we were dealingwith.
And in hopes that it would bereturned.
And it was, it was, because, andthere were, there a time came
when my husband said, I'venoticed the change in you.
I've seen it.
You're different.
And it's because, and this isvery important to me to say and
(25:26):
it's been heavy on my mindlately, but it's because I died,
I literally died and was bornagain.
The old me is fully gone.
Praise the Lord.
Yes.
And so with that, I, I gave updrinking and I gave up smoking.
I I didn't drink during mypregnancy, but Yeah.
Or smoke but I gave up, allthose things gave up getting
(25:46):
high and.
All my vices, are just gone.
They're just gone.
Because for the first time, Iwent from feeling guilty to
truly grieving the fact that Ihad hurt the father with my
sins.
And that being said, the verynext day my husband baptized me
in one of the most beautifulplaces in the whole world.
(26:09):
And it was freezing.
It was like 45 degrees water,and I would have no regrets.
And yeah, so with confidence,it's where all my foot is
asleep, but with confidence.
Now I can say that I know thatI'll be with Jesus eternally.
And before that moment in mylife, I knew full well in my
(26:31):
spirit that I was gonna go tohell.
I knew it.
I knew it.
And I ignored it and I waitedfar too long.
That is the greatest regret inmy life.
I'm not a person who hasregrets, but I had one and said,
I just didn't know Jesus sooner.
What a beautiful story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Philesha (26:50):
That moved me a great deal.
'cause girl, I relate to a lotof what you said.
I had been exposed to alcoholand marijuana at such a young
age, and it was like, myparents' philosophy was you're
gonna do it, so you might aswell do it with me.
And I, that set me up forfailure.
(27:12):
Lot of people so many years.
Yes.
And my grandpa, my papa, he wasmy very best friend.
And he wasn't just a majorpothead.
He just, he, his philosophy was,I'll smoke till I die.
And so it was like a, it was abonding thing for me and him for
such a long time.
And.
It really wasn't until he waslike on his deathbed that he
(27:33):
accepted Jesus.
But for a long time I felt likeI was working against my family.
I told her parents this when wesat down, like I felt like I was
really trying to grasps whoJesus was and my family was just
not, they weren't there but meactively seeking Jesus, I feel
like has made a change in myfamily.
(27:54):
And now my dad, my real dad whohave, he had addiction problems
and things like that, that he'sturned his life around.
And so his relationship withJesus fuels my desire to have a
strong relationship with Jesus.
And same with my mom.
Yeah.
But I had to fight against theYeah.
(28:14):
Generational curse of addiction.
Graye (28:16):
Yeah.
Philesha (28:17):
And I had a moment, honestly, it wasn't too long
ago, I don't remember exactlywhen, but I was just like I used
alcohol as a crutch.
And when I realized what it was,'cause I just justified it in my
mind.
Like I I'm not an alcoholic, Idon't need it every day.
But it was something that I wasreaching for that instead of the
(28:37):
Bible.
Graye (28:38):
Yeah.
Philesha (28:39):
And I realized that, and I had one of those moments
where I just fell to my kneesand was like, God, forgive me.
I'm so sorry.
So yeah, definitely there'sstrength in talking about it.
Sure.
But also a lot of strength inletting that go.
Letting Jesus exactly.
Take that.
From you.
It's, but yeah.
I'm so glad that you're sharingwhat you're, what you went
(29:02):
through.
I just, one thing that gets me,and I know you've forgiven your
mom, and that's only Jesus cangive you the strength to do
that.
And it's so hard for me not tojudge that because as having
kids, like that's the mostpurest, most innocent life.
How could you ever do anythingto defile that?
Put them in harm's way?
(29:24):
I just, yeah.
Graye (29:25):
I did, I went through a little bit of time where I was
feeling a regenerated angerafter having my first baby.
But God dealt with it with mepretty quickly.
I think the biggest issue comingfrom that was.
Like having the irrational fearthat I'm gonna somehow do to my
(29:47):
kids.
Anything that she's overdone.
Which I'm obviously not, I'm notgoing to make those choices.
The thing is the reason that Ican forgive her, obviously yes,
is Jesus, but it's because theLord taught me about my own
sins.
And like I tell everybody this,her story is not really mine to
tell, but, and I'm not givingher excuses.
(30:11):
There's reasons, no excuses, butthe things that she experienced
were pretty rough too, she hadsome really difficult things to
get through in her life as well.
And yeah, where she's at isself-inflicted, but it came from
a place of hurt.
And lack of hope and need forconnection.
And I pray that she breaks freefrom that.
(30:32):
I really do.
And I've actually resolved thatif I ever did see her again, if
it was safe I would share thegospel with her again.
I would tell her where I've beenand what I've done.
I don't think I could've donethat a few years ago, before
really truly meeting Jesus.
But yeah, praise
Charity (30:51):
the Lord for that.
Praise the Lord for forgiveness.
And I think it's so beautifulbecause like to me, when you go
through something and you canstill forgive, it makes me think
there's little things that like,I'm like, man, those people did
me so wrong.
But ultimately, like you seepeople that go through way more.
And they're, and they canforgive.
Graye (31:13):
And it makes you say, okay, who am I to forgive?
It's saying, Jesus,
Charity (31:17):
you're not enough to cover what they did.
And it is very if you're notforgiving, it is not Christlike
at all.
And then I'm preaching to thechoir because, I'm still working
on forgiving people that don'tcare if I forgive'em or not, or
could care less.
Graye (31:32):
Yeah.
Charity (31:33):
And so it's kinda oh, okay, how do I truly forgive
this person?
But ultimately, like I know inthe back of my head, okay, you
could do X, Y, and Z and youcould, oh, bring to the choir
over here.
Because I'm like, come on Jody,you just really need to work on
truly forgiving, But anyways,basically I need to do better
on.
Yeah,
Graye (31:51):
we all do.
We all do.
We all do.
It hits us all at differenttimes, for sure.
I did wanna say you were talkingabout there should have been
signs, like surely somebody sawit from the outside something
that people don't always realizeor don't take seriously enough
is the fact that people,especially children, but also
adults, but especially childrenwho are put in a situation where
(32:12):
they're being threatened withtheir life or others' lives
carry the responsibility andweight of another person's life.
In their mind.
It may not be true.
It might be true to an extentthat they would actually fall
through on those actions, butit's not likely.
However, a child does not knowthe difference.
Therefore they weren't gettingany signals from me,
(32:34):
necessarily.
Because you're purposelyprobably hiding it since you
were scared.
Absolutely, 100%.
And I will say, there were othere were other things as well,
like my birth mom also hitthings really well.
Aside from, the abusive stepdad.
My dad didn't necessarily haveany reason to believe, and my
stepmom that she was beinghorrendous.
(32:58):
There was a period of time whereit was like, eh, she's not a
great mom, but whatever, but.
She was mean, really wasn't agreat mom, but still, it wasn't
like, oh my gosh, she's on meth,or she's trying heroin, or she's
prostituting herself, orwhatever.
It wasn't like that.
Charity (33:14):
Yeah.
Graye (33:15):
Until later when it was like, okay, now we're like
pretty sure she's, she can itanymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's using and abusing.
And that being said I'm justvery sensitive to that because
my dad is such a protector andhe, my dad would ask us
(33:35):
frequently, he asked us, hasanyone touched you
inappropriately?
Are you unsafe?
Are you okay?
And I would say, yes, we're fineevery single time.
What is a man supposed to do?
What are you supposed to do?
He did everything that he wassupposed to try and, no.
What was happening?
(33:55):
And so also then you take intoaccount repressed memory.
There's also a period of timethereafter where I shut it all
out.
My, but my birth mom, she hid alot of things from him, a lot of
things.
Just one small example, just forthe weight of his story.
I have a little scar here.
You can't really see it anymoreif you, unless you get really
(34:17):
close.
But my eye got split open righthere.
And the story that was told wasthat I was hit with a toy, like
a crispy and I was, but she hitme with it.
And it was like this disc and itsplit my face open, and so I had
to go to the ER and, getstitched up.
(34:37):
So it's just like little thingslike that.
Like what else?
What else are you supposed todo?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Okay.
And my, my dad took such goodcare of me even through that,
he's the one that came, and Iremember I sat on the tailgate
of his truck while he took mysutures out.
He took'em out himself and,checked up on me and everything
took really good care of us.
But no parent's.
(34:57):
Perfect.
And my my mother-in-law told meone time, she said, I think that
when you have adult children andyou look back, you realize that
there are things you justcouldn't have known about your
children.
Yeah.
And that's a tough pill toswallow, but it is the truth.
You just couldn't have knownsome things.
And that's where raising yourchildren in the mindset of
(35:20):
Christ comes into play.
In one area.
Obviously it should come intoplay the whole time, but yeah.
Anyway, I just wanted to addthat's, I just think that's
important.
Because you just, you reallyjust never know.
Philesha (35:33):
Hundred percent.
So one aspect I wanna ask youabout is, since you have come to
be more confident about tellingyour story, are, is there
organizations that you want towork with or have worked with or
any attention you wanna bring?
Graye (35:55):
Okay.
There, there are a couple oforganizations that I admire.
And I I haven't necessarilyworked with any organizations.
There, I have talked about it inthe past and talked with some
people that were interested ingetting me there.
I'm, it's not really the seasonfor me.
I'm raising small children.
And I really want to focus onthat.
(36:15):
Yeah.
But I still share my story acouple, a couple of places to
name, one being local, tower ofH Mill is a new recovery place.
They haven't been there verylong.
For women, I just think whatthey're doing is really great.
Also, daughters of the OtherSide is really exceptional as
far as recovery.
(36:36):
Addiction, recovery that's crestcentered.
But for Sex trafficking, humantrafficking and whatnot, I would
say hope 61, hope for Justice.
Those are great organizations.
Philesha (36:48):
The Tim Tebow Foundation is I've been so
passionate about sextrafficking.
And just helping families whohave gone through addiction and
children who go through childabuse specifically.
Yeah.
It's such a I don't know whatelse to do.
So I've partnered with Tim Tebowand I have a.
Like a donation page basically.
(37:08):
Sure.
So that's the only thing I knowto do right now, except for also
having you on the podcast andtalking about your story,
bringing it, bringing attentionto it.
Is, and I know that social mediadoes a great job of talking
about it already.
But I don't know, you just, Ifeel like there needs to be more
(37:28):
heart to it instead ofsensationalizing.
Absolutely.
The politicizing it that drivesme nuts.
Graye (37:35):
Yeah.
Philesha (37:36):
And that should not be Republican, Democrat.
I don't care who you are.
We should take notice of that,not just not just the illegal
immigration, but like it's, ithappened to you literally in our
local area.
Yeah.
It's happening.
Whether you realize it or not,
Graye (37:51):
the numbers are astronomically high in Arkansas.
It's pretty alarming actually.
Philesha (37:56):
Yeah, my mom was a social worker and dealt with
stuff like this all the time,and I'm just like, that's
another reason why I wish thatthere was more I could do and
I'm praying Jesus right now.
If there's more I can do, I wantto do it.
Graye (38:08):
There is, I've got context for you.
Yes.
Philesha (38:10):
I I'm just gonna look at my notes to make sure I'm not
leaving anything out.
Okay.
This was a question I wrotedown.
What would you say to someonethat went through what you went
through who hasn't quite turnedthe corner like you have?
Graye (38:24):
If there was any, like they are post half post event.
Philesha (38:28):
Yeah.
Graye (38:28):
I feel like the answer's pretty obvious, but just I would
pray that they would find Jesusmuch sooner than I did.
To know that no vice of anykind, drink, drugs, men, food,
anything.
Anything.
Anything.
I think we don't get enoughweight to all the other ways
that you can have a vice.
(38:49):
Get to grief.
They got like a whole show aboutstrange addictions, yeah.
You're phone constantly.
Do you disconnect?
Do you disassociate?
Do push people away?
It's not worth it.
It's not worth it at all.
Have real raw relationships.
Talk about what you need to talkabout.
Don't be afraid of people whoset boundaries.
Love them and lean into thembecause they're good for you.
(39:11):
And but obviously, namely thevery most important is to just
seek Jesus, seek the word, andknow that there's hope and know
that you can be healed from it.
Because the fact, y'all, I, goodgrief, I, there was a time where
I don't think I could havephysically sat here and said a
word that I've said today, usedto, even in a private one-on-one
(39:32):
set, setting, telling a friendor somebody about it was almost
unimaginable.
And now I can do this calm in myspirit, like my body's calm.
So that, that's that, I know fora fact that Jesus can help
anyone and everyone, and we allneed it.
And not to be heart of heart andknow that.
(39:55):
'cause I know a lot of peoplesay why this?
God let bad things happen togood people, it's because there
are no good people.
None of us are good.
No matter your sins, I don'tcare if you lie to your fourth
grade teacher and that's allyou'll confess to, you're a
sinner.
You need him.
Charity (40:08):
This isn't heaven.
So evil things are gonna happenbecause this isn't heaven.
This is the world.
There's a, like the devil is theking of this world, and he's the
one running around trying tohave his demons influence
everybody to do evil things
Graye (40:26):
The word evil, I think is very off putting to so many
people.
But the truth is that's what itis,
Philesha (40:32):
right?
Graye (40:33):
Evil is the word because we have this chronic heart, and
if you're honest with yourselfand you think about what's going
on in your brain.
You would know that's true.
Charity (40:44):
Because like your goal is to be Christlike, which is
perfection.
But obviously no one's going tobe God, Jesus you're just not,
clearly, or we wouldn't needJesus and just the people that
could,
Graye (40:56):
Yeah.
No, it's a result of a fallenworld.
Charity (40:58):
Exactly.
Yeah.
But,
Graye (41:00):
Yeah,
Philesha (41:00):
Yeah.
I appreciate you coming so muchand sharing your story
seriously.
Yes.
And thank
Graye (41:06):
y'all.
Thank you for letting me dothat.
Glory to God, I a hundredpercent.
I just, I used to tell thatstory for me for coping, and now
it is, it's truly for him.
I just want people to know Jesuswhen they hear that.
Philesha (41:21):
Amen.
Graye (41:22):
That's it.
Philesha (41:23):
One of the like, principle things that started
this podcast was the story ofthe woman at the well.
And how.
She didn't tell Jesus anythingabout her life, but he knew.
And he was like, girl, youbetter get right.
And then she was like, oh my,you are Jesus.
And then she goes and tellseverybody, and that's the thing
(41:44):
that we want to take and give toeverybody who's listening is
that's why we're doing this.
To tell everybody.
Just tell everybody.
Yep.
Graye (41:51):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Philesha (41:53):
But yeah, it's definitely something that, I
know this episode was it hadreally hard topics covered, but
Jesus can break through anythingand over, you can overcome
everything through him.
So your testament to that forsure.
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