January 17, 2024 • 37 mins
How did your favorite teacher impact your life? Award winning journalist Deborah Roberts returns to the podcast to talk with Carol about the transformative power of great teachers, the topic of Deborah's latest book, “Lessons Learned and Cherished: The Teacher Who Changed My Life”, a collection of essays from Deborah and some of her well-known friends and colleagues. In this episode Deborah and Carol offer valuable insights about the ways in which great teachers influence their students and how parents can actively support and champion teachers' efforts and results. This is an engaging and thought-provoking conversation that you won’t want to miss.
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Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Ground ControlParenting, a blog and now a podcast
creative for parents raising black and brownchildren. I'm the creator and your host,
Carol Sutton Lewis. In this podcastseries, I talk with some really
interesting people about the job and thejoy of parenting. I am so excited
that my dear friend Deborah Roberts isreturning to the podcast after being one of
(00:25):
my very first guests. As everyoneknows or should know, Deborah is an
award winning journalist who's the co anchorof the ABC News magazine twenty twenty,
and she regularly reports on Good MorningAmerica, World News Tonight with David Muir,
and Nightline. She wrote Been There, Done That, Family Wisdom for
modern Times with her husband, thebeloved Today's Show co host Al Roker,
(00:47):
and Deborah's latest book, Lessons Learnedand Cherished The Teacher Who Changed My Life,
is a collection of stories from ahost of great folks about their favorite
and most impactful teachers. I can'twait to talk about this with her.
Deborah and Al are the parents ofLeela twenty four and Nick, who's twenty
one, and Deborah as a stepdaughter, Courtney, who just recently had a
baby girl, Sky Clara, welcometo grand Control Parenting. Deborah, welcome
(01:11):
back. I'm so excited to haveyou back. Yay, Oh my gosh,
I'm so happy to be back.You and I of course see each
other from time to time, butrarely do we get a chance to have
a real discussion about all kinds ofthings, so I'm looking forward to it.
Hey, me too, So Iwant to talk about your wonderful book,
but at first I want to catchup. So you guys are grandparents.
Hard to believe that as fabulous asand young as you look, that
(01:34):
you've that grandparenting could be attached toyour name parent and you're impressed with I'm
so thrilled by Beautiful. I'm sohappy for Courtney, and Sky is great.
I'm trying to come up with myname and we'll see what it is.
But it will not be Grandma,right, I can assure you that
it will not be Grandma. Yeah, yeah, no, I am aways
(01:57):
from this. None of my childrenhave or thinking about having children, but
one thing that's clear to me isthat I will not be grandma either.
So so name aside, how hasit been have you experienced any of the
joy I'm told that comes along withhaving a little baby that you can give
back. Well, she's only acouple of weeks old at this moment,
and so I think more than anythingelse, I have been really giving back
(02:20):
to Courtney because she, I mean, the baby is beautiful and doing well
and thriving, thank god. Butit's really more about looking after mama because
this is a big adjustment and youremember those early days, Carol, and
particularly with your first you're just likein a fog. And I've just been
giving her, you know, advice, support, cheering her on because she
had a sea section, so she'sbeen dealing with of course the pain and
(02:45):
just getting back on her feet.So more than and I had a two
sea sections with both children, soI've had the you know, I guess,
the opportunity for the privilege of knowingwhat that's like. So I've just
really, more than anything else,privilege and quotes the privilege. The privilege
is, you're absolutely right, butthe privilege of that kind of motherhood for
sure, But really, more thananything else, just sort of trying to
(03:07):
help get her up to speed.So I think we'll really luxuriate in the
baby. I mean, al isover the moon and he just loves holding
the baby. But I'm really rightnow focused on mama, So I think,
you know, I will start toenjoy it a little bit long,
a little bit later, I think, as she sort of settles in.
So that is such. That issuch a good and thoughtful answer, and
(03:28):
and it's important to be reminded thatwhile everybody is all blissful and excited about
this baby the mom that recovery periodis no joke. It's no joke.
It's a it's a shift. It'sa bodily shift. I mean, notwithstanding
the actual birth, but the wholetime in your head and the sleep,
and it's a lot, exactly,It's a lot, a lot, And
(03:49):
I think that more than anything else. I just remember that when I was
Courtney's age. I'm pretty sure whenLeela was born, I don't remember many
people giving voice to that. Itwas one friend who said to me,
don't be surprised if, in themiddle of all the gifts and the flowers
and all the excitement and everybody justgiving you such kudos, that you don't
feel as upbeat and excited as youwant to. And I remember that,
(04:12):
and nobody else really took the timeto talk about that, and I wanted
Courtney to know that this is normal. It's natural having a little postpartum,
whether it's the blues or even alittle more than that. I want to
keep an eye on her because it'sa real thing and people are talking about
it more now than they were then, so I wanted to make sure that
she was aware. Oh absolutely,Just a quick aside on that. I
remember being pregnant with my first andhaving towards the end of the pregnancy this
(04:36):
really overwhelming feeling of being alone inthe world with the responsibility for a human
being. But everybody else could disappear, I mean, God forbid, but
if they did, I would stillhave the responsibility for this human being that
for the rest of my life.Course it's you know, it's all inspiring,
(04:57):
but also completely over It can feeloverwhelm and so she is very lucky
to have you. And I encourageeverybody who's listening that if you are helping
someone revel and having just had ababy, just be kind and remember that
it's important to let them know they'renot alone. That's the thing most people
I've talked about about any kind ofpostpartum sadness feels like they're the only person
(05:19):
in the world and feels that wayexactly exactly. So that's what that's mostly
what I'm sort of focused on rightnow. And then we'll get to like
all and the bliss and all that, right, and there's lots of time
for that, right And so nowyour other kids. There's Leela who is
twenty four and she is living thebest life. And Nicka's in college,
(05:43):
how exciting. And there's there's alovely moment in your book which I'm gonna
get to a little later about justa moment about Nick's college experience, which
which I'll get to, which Ireally enjoyed. But but now I do
actually want to turn to the bookand I've had the pleasure of reading it,
absorbing it. The good news isshort book because we all have minuscule,
miniscool tensions. Yeah, short isgood. It's short, but it's
(06:09):
and it's it's packed with really interestinginformation and I can't wait to talk about
it. First again, I willsay the name of it. It's lessons
learned and cherished the teacher who changedmy life, who changed my life.
And so so the first question Ihave for you is why this love letter
to teachers and why now, youknow, I've been a journalist for you
(06:30):
know, more than three decades,and I've covered all kinds of stories,
and as you said, I've writtena book before in conjunction with my husband.
But I was sort of looking forsomething that I wanted to say and
wanted to put out in the worldbecause I think about my experiences and every
time I talk about my teacher,my sixth grade English teacher, missus Dorothy
Hardy, and I, you know, give speeches from time to time Carol
Is as you know, and oftentimesI would mention her and what an impact
(06:54):
she had on me, just postsegregation in the in the small town Georgia
town that I grew up in,so many people would relate to that.
And so when I started kicking aroundideas and also as a journalist being aware
of the fact that teachers are justreally experiencing a very difficult time. I
mean, it's like a fifty yearlow in terms of their morale, and
(07:15):
you know, people who are interestedin the profession, there's a real crisis
going on right now in education,not just in academics, but with teachers
feeling disregarded and disrespected and so Iguess in thinking about that experience growing up
and looking back down memory lane,I just sort of put those two thoughts
together. You know, teachers rightnow really can use you know, a
(07:36):
hug. You know, we thinkabout teachers imparting advice and imparting good things
and lessons and things that we cherish, but right now they can sort of
use that. So the two ideaskind of came about, you know,
together, you know, thinking thatwas the backdrop during which I wanted to
write a book about my memories,and then it suddenly just sort of snowballed
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into this idea of having other peoplegive their memory and share them and collect
them. And then I thought,you know, at the end of the
day, it's kind of a loveletter to teachers, which is what they
can use right now. And itliterally just organically kind of came together like
that and surprised even me as Istarted to talk to people about how potent
this message was. Absolutely and youknow, as you read the book,
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it is truly a collection of essaysfrom various really interesting assortment of people,
and most of them are only twoor three pages long, and you can
pick out the people that you wantto hear from and read it that way,
or you can as I did,read it all the way through.
I'm good. I like that.But in reading it all the way through,
(08:39):
I really saw clearly some themes thatwhen across everyone's recollection of their favorite
teacher. First of all, itis a fun question, but particularly if
you have a favorite teacher, it'sa really fun question because it's wonderful to
be able to reflect back on theperson in school who really helped move each
(09:00):
you in some way. So throughthe book you get everyone's excitement about talking
about this issue, just as youwere excited everyone in the book is.
So I'm just I'm gonna pinpoint justa few themes. I'm not giving away
everything in the book because i wanteveryone to get it and read it.
But there are a couple of themes, Like the first one that was really
broadly mentioned across a lot of storieswas the teachers saw something in me that
(09:22):
I didn't see in myself. Youhave a few little essays in the book,
which is very nice. You aresprinkled throughout, and at the end
of one of them you talk aboutNick being in college and you encountering a
college counselor there at the school whowas a teacher who mentioned to you that
even in her brief interaction with Nickalready she could see that he had leadership
(09:43):
qualities. And clearly that was newsto you. It may be news to
Nick, but yeah, yeah,it blew me away. And it was
just, you know, when Iwas working on the book, of course,
I'm asking other people to share andunearth their memories, and I started
off with my memory, but myencouraged me to go a little deeper and
to share more about my journey andalso about my children's journey, and I
(10:07):
thought, you know, that's kindof interesting to think about Leela and Nick
and teachers who have had an impacton them. And then, of course
Nick was at that moment, justbeginning college, and that was a big
moment for us, because you know, many people know that Nick has learning
challenges, and Alan and I havetalked about this publicly, and it's been
a real struggle for him to makehis way through academics, and so the
(10:28):
idea that he is in this smallcollege is really sort of a big deal
for us. But you know,I think most of us are guilty.
I guess if there's and for lackof a better word, of not really
necessarily knowing all there is to knowabout our children. You know, we
see them, we're raising them,we're doing what we can to make sure
that they're safe and doing what theyneed to do. But sometimes you don't
(10:48):
hone in on all those little thingsthat make them interesting or that interest them.
And so to hear from a teacher'sperspective, and how many of us
have gone to parent teacher meetings rightand had the teacher describe a kid that
you kind of don't really and certainlyyeah, when she said that, you
know Nick is you tell me alittle bit about Nick and how I can
be of help. His academic advisorasked us this, and she said,
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you know, I already see someleadership qualities in him based on, you
know, the way he's interacted withsome of his friends and the way he's
interacted with some other folks. Andwe were both like sort of blown away
because he's just getting started. Andyou know what, Carol, here he
already this After this past year,he told us that he wants to be
an orientation leader coming up in thefall, and he took a course at
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school, kind of a seminar tosort of get him ready for the possibility
of it, and guess what he'sgoing to do it He's chosen to be
an orientation leader. So she sawsomething. I mean, I was just
hoping my kid would get in andyou know, do his laundry and make
his bed and go to class fortime and at least try to just get
there and make something out of thefirst year. And she could see that
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he had some potential in ways thatwe couldn't. So I heard that a
lot from people, and that resonatedwith me. I was writing the book
The really one of the most memorableexamples of this. And I won't go
into too much etail because it's agreat story. But Rosie Perez writes about
a teacher, and certainly we canall get that a teacher can see you
(12:15):
and see something and help bring itout in you. But in her instance,
it sounds like this teacher really shewas not an easy student. She
was pushing away the concept of thisteacher helping her and sounds like school in
general. And he really stuck withit, sort of dove in, used
creative ways to help her see herselfa little differently. So as again I
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won't give away too much her storyin particular seemed it reminded me how influential
teachers can be. Teachers don't reallycare, can I agree with you?
And she blew me away. Istill remember sitting on a Sunday afternoon,
because I was gathering these stories.At any time anybody was available, you
know, on a Saturday morning,on a Sunday afternoon, in the evening,
you know, anytime they would havetime for a quick zoom call with
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me. And when Rosie told methis story, I was just mesmerized because
I had read and I knew Rosiea little bit, and I knew that
she had had a tumultuous childhood andshe had had some she's written about it,
difficulty growing up in a chaotic household, and she was a foster kid.
And to hear her just described withsuch I don't know, such visual,
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you know, depth of what thatwas like to be this little girl
in school who didn't speak English verywell, who had a bit of a
speech impediment, and who didn't feelnecessarily confident, and to have a teacher
who not only tapped into her academicneeds, but tapped into her personal needs
and her emotional needs. He couldsee that this was a kid who was
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just dying and crying out for encouragement. And Misty Copeland, the celebrated ballet
dancer, told me something similar tothat she had a teacher who could see
that she needed encouragement. And tohear these stories and to hear Rosie describe
how her teacher, you know,tapped into the idea that she liked dance
and that she was pretty good atsports, and he used those as a
(14:03):
way to get her to sort offeel confident and to beam and you know,
come on, and I want youto raise your hand in class on
top of everything else. And itjust was that little watering that she needed
at that moment for her seed tobe you know, nourished and to start
growing. It's a reminder that teachersreally just can see beyond you know,
how well you're doing on your test, but can see that sometimes maybe maybe
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things aren't going great at home,maybe you are bringing to school something that
is that that is broken and thatneeds you know, healing, and for
teacher to sort of step in alittle bit and probably not even being aware
that they're doing more than just helpingyou be your best self, not thinking
they're going to create like this,you know, world class ballet dancer,
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or this famous actress, or youknow, in the case of Sergio Hudson,
a designer. You know, theymay not know that, but they
know that they are trying to helpyou be become a better person, a
bigger person, and that is whatleads people on to success in their lives.
And another theme that really resonated acrossmany stories is this concept that their
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teacher was the first person to tellthem in a way that they really believed
it, that they were smart,and that really resonated. I mean,
I was a student in school whowas told they were smart, and that
I know that feeling of how howmuch that infuses you with the desire to
do more. And you're one ofyour your the people you spoke with your
(15:33):
friend Adenia Walker Clark talked about themagical words that you are smart. That
really shifted her whole perspective about schooland lit a fire in her. And
in Oprah talks about that too,that a teacher not only said you're smart,
but that you're intelligent and said itwas the first time she had heard
the word intelligent and it made herfeel even that much more special. But
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I think that, you know,we all and many of the folks I
talked to. Octavia Spencer, theactress, talked about it, you know,
having a solid home life and parentswho were very supportive. Many of
us have been told maybe in ourhome that we're smarter, we're sharp,
or whatever. But there is somethingabout hearing a teacher and authority figure,
and particularly at that time, becausea lot of these people are recalling teachers
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from twenty years ago and thirty yearsago, when we certainly had a higher
regard for teachers than we have atthis moment, and that is something that
needs to be fixed. But wesaw them as such an authority figure.
And so for a teacher to sayyou're smart, because you know, they
see kids all day, so theyknow who's maybe smart and who's not.
That just can elevate a kid.That can actually be just the opening of
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a door into just this world ofimagination and wonder and hope and determination.
And I think that maybe teachers don'teven necessarily recognize what that means to their
students. And that's one of thethings I wanted for this book as well,
to remind teachers that you who aredoing something pretty amazing, So please
keep doing it and keep at itand be recognized for it. Absolutely so,
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just so quickly. A couple ofother themes that came through in what
really resonated with a lot of peopleis their ability to see themselves in their
teacher, and they really wanted tohave the approval of their teachers. I
love that everyone was so candid aboutthat, because it's true. You just
you wanted this person that you've thoughtso highly of to really like you and
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keep giving you, keep shining onyou, and keep giving you. Also
the phrase yes, yes, andyou know what, and that's great,
and that's perfectly great. I thinkthat's kind of a human trait. That's
just natural. Everybody wants approval.Everybody wants to be validated and to be
valued. We don't think about itreally with children in that way necessarily,
but you do, and so manypeople. You're absolutely right, We're honest
(17:52):
about that about how that lit afire. I love the story. Christy
Turlington Burns, the model, talkedabout being in Miami, Florida and having
a black teacher for the first time. Christy is a part of Latina and
part white, but she talked abouthaving this black teacher who was so cool.
It was in the seventies and shewere bell bottoms and had an afro,
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and this woman just emmin you know, she just like she showed her
what it was to be like kindof a bad feminist, you know,
a tough woman. And Christy wastaken by that. Not only was she
a good teacher who didn't take anygup, but she imparted to her that
you could be sort of a womanof the world and set a tone even
that spoke volumes to her when theteacher wasn't even speaking to her. And
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I love that. I love that. We'll be right back after these messages.
Welcome back to the show. Thefinal theme that really struck me,
and this is sort of a differentside of teachers, how teachers used discipline
in a way that that really impactedtheir students. Two of your of the
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people you spoke with, in particular, Melody Hobson, who talked about she
had a speech to perform and theteacher required her to come and repeat her
and practice it every day for weeksbefore her speech. Take time away from
lunch and come and sit and practice. And she said, by the time
she gave it, I mean,she had such confidence and her ability to
(19:22):
give it. But so it feltinitially maybe a little like a punishment,
but at the end of the day, it infused her with the knowledge of
the discipline it takes to be reallygood. Yeah. Yeah. And she
made it very clear too that herstory was about how tough teachers can be
on you, but how you canlearn and use that to actually to have
to develop grit. And she tellsa story that was sort of hard,
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and I think by today's standards somepeople would see it as maybe abusive.
But a teacher who really singled herout when she missed a word on a
spelling test and she was the onlyone who did and she made Melody feel,
you know, sort of almost alittle embarrassed by it. And you
know, but Melody said she thoughtshe did it because she knew she could
handle it. She knew that shewas worthy, and she that she was
(20:07):
good at what she did, butshe wanted her to be better. And
Melody took from that, I canbe better. I will not miss this
word again and also went on to, as you said, win this contest.
So in her case, having atough teacher made her tough and made
her determined and made her like thismajor, you know, financial wizard and
business leader that she is today,right right, And in that same vein,
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Darren Walker talked about a white teacherwho chastised him about the anger he
was demonstrating. And he prefaces hisstory with saying that many will misinterpret this
and see and see it as someonetrying to shut me down or with some
sort of racist undertones. But itwas an instance where the teacher took him
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aside after he had a fight andsaid, you must comport yourself. That
was her line, you must comportyourself, and that black boys cannot afford
to demonstrate the anger that you're demonstrating. And again, where some might have
seen that as unhelpful and messed andbiased, it were right right. Yeah,
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he took that. It really informedthe rest of his approach to life.
I mean, well, he tookit for what she meant, which
is that she was trying to savehim. She was trying to save him
from a system that is unfair andunkind. And while the words may not
have been elegant, she essentially wasgiving him the state of the world at
the moment. And this was inthe South back in the nineteen seventies,
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and she basically was saying, youcan be gobbled up by the system that
won't be good to you and won'ttreat you well, and you need to
sort of learn how to control yourtemper a little bit. And I think
that Darren took that well. Iknow he took that. He talks about
that how the lesson was there thatshe had a lot of faith in him
and his abilities to learn, andshe wanted him to do well. He
saw that as a teacher who wantsme to do well and wants to protect
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me from a system that may notnecessarily have my best interest at heart.
And he went on to become aleader. And of course this is you
know, this this major, majorbusiness leader who is running a multi billion
dollar company. I mean, hecredits that with helping him to become who
is today. Yeah. No,I thought that was really instructive because it's
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one thing to read and be hardenedby people's experiences with teachers that are warm
and fuzzy, But the ones wherethe teachers were hard or tough, they're
helpful for two reasons. One,you see that it worked out well and
that that was a good lesson,but also and then this is going to
lead into the next part of theconversation. It also reminds us that it's
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complicated being a teacher, and thatwe need to give teachers the space to
work with children in ways that wemay not always understand at the moment.
And yes, I want to segueto since this is a parenting podcast,
how parents can really benefit from yourbook. And the more I read,
the more I thought, Okay,this is great. This is inspirational for
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people who are students who love theirteachers, but it's really also inspirational for
parents. And this is, asyou said before, such a tough time
for teachers. I mean they're leavingthe profession in droves. They have had
a series of years. I meanall the parents during the pandemic who became
teachers hopefully got a little bit moreappreciation for the tough time that teachers have.
But so they're coming back into asystem where children, let's face it,
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and it's been documented children are behind. I mean there we've lost.
There is pandemic loss. It's realand alarmingly, as some reports have said,
if we don't do things about itnow, this loss will be more
permanent. I mean, we reallyhave to work hard to fill this loss.
So teachers the time, yes,to make up for time teachers are
(23:56):
going to have. It's going tobe a Unfortunately, the road is still
going to be tough for teachers goingforward. So when I think about parents,
parents, frankly, and I saythis with love, haven't always had
that top of mind. I mean, because you know, we go in
with our kids are the loved oneswe want to protect, and that's really
what we're focused on. But thething that I kept thinking is I was
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reading through this and listening to howthese adult people are really focusing on something
that happened with them with one personin a very long time ago. So
teachers are the most significant and consistentcaregivers after parents, Like right, they
your kids spend so much time intheir company, in some cases probably more
(24:40):
time, more, more hours ina day than they do at home with
their parents, depending on what theirparents do for a living and that kind
of thing. You're absolutely right.And Carol, you said something earlier about
teachers and you touched on our confidencein them and you know their abilities and
so forth. And this is notto say that there are not teachers who
have failed. There are not teacherswho have biases. I mean, I'm
(25:02):
not going to use this to sortof paint this broad happy brush of like
everybody's got like the best teacher inthe world. I mean, we know
that there are instances, and Ithink parents will probably point to that instances
where maybe a teacher was not reallydoing the best for their child or maybe
even had a bias. I mean, we know that that exists in our
society. So I'm in no waytrying to say that every single teacher you
(25:26):
know is absolutely the best for yourchild. But I do think it's important
to when you look at a storylike Darren's, to give it a beat
and to give it a thought aboutwhat teachers are trying to do with your
children, as instead of having aknee jerk reaction to what was said or
how things were handled with your child, and not to think that maybe maybe
your child can learn something from thatteacher, even if it is a difficult
(25:48):
lesson or something that might be hardfor them to digest, right right.
No, absolutely, and I willdefinitely a second that there's to me,
this book is aspirational. I mean, these people are remembering people who sound
like stellar teachers and as in anyprofession. It is not filled with people
who are stellar. There are stars, and then there are people who are
(26:11):
not as great, and then thepeople that shouldn't be in the profession.
So it's a wide birth and parentsknow this. Actually, I'm sure parents
have had teachers. We've all hadteachers that weren't so great. I think
that when you can look at thiscompilation of aspirational teaching, it's helpful from
a parenting perspective to think this kindof teaching is possible, and first of
(26:36):
all, I mean, it exists, and it is important to remember that
it's important to look for these qualitiesin the teachers that your children have.
I mean, it's going to helpyou assess. Let's say you're a parent
who never had any really great teachingexperiences, you might go into the school
system not only very protective if yourchild and concerned about what your child is
(26:57):
going to encounter, but also unconsciouslybiased in terms of thinking that whatever a
teacher does, it's not in yourchild's best interest just because that's been your
experience. So I think with thisbook, I would encourage parents to sort
of use it to sort of stepaway from their own memories that aren't so
good. Not to erase them,because you know, you are looking out
(27:19):
for your child and we do needto see what the teachers are like,
but to remember that there are peoplewho are really dedicated to this profession.
And if you can identify any inthe schools that you are in, maybe
your child teacher or another teacher youheard about, helping to support these teachers
in their mission. We're in atime where I think even the teachers who
(27:41):
have the best instincts are feeling abit overburdened and not appreciate it. So
we got like a perfect storm offrustration. So we have parents coming in
with more concern, greater expectations,more more responsibility to put on the teacher.
And then you have these teachers whodid the best they could for the
(28:03):
most part. I'm going to beI'm going to take the optimistic approach,
but anyway, the best they could, and now the burden is greater.
It is so I last year,in the last season of the podcast,
my last guest was doctor Charlene Reid, who runs a series of charter schools
here in New York, and wetalked about teachers. She was a teacher
(28:23):
before she became a principal and thenthe executive director. We talked about the
the the how difficult it was forteachers to try to make up the gap,
and that it took three years toget into this and it's going to
take in her estimation, three yearsto get out of it, to get
out of it. And Carol,if I can just add one thing too,
(28:44):
because I think it's so critical forus to realize and remember, the
teachers are up against a lot morethan the teachers who were dealing with you
know, who are cited in thisbook. Most people are remembering teachers from
twenty thirty, maybe even forty yearsago. At that time, of course,
they had a difficult job just youknow, trying to deal with you
(29:04):
know, depending on what their classroomsize was, a lot of kids and
a lot of different learning abilities.But today teachers are dealing with violence in
classrooms. They're dealing with politics thatyou know, that dictate what they can
and can't do. Teachers are verynervous about what they can and can't say
in classrooms, and and you know, all kinds of other things. So
they are up again so many otherexternal factors too that make their jobs so
(29:29):
much harder. And I think that, more than anything else, just makes
it so much more important that weas parents work with them and recognize what
they're up against during this time inour lives. No, absolutely, And
then, as I always talk whenI talk about parents interacting with teachers,
I always say, one good wayto do that have a face to face
with the teacher, even if it'sjust a sort of a quick one in
(29:51):
the hallway. Let this teacher knowthat you are allies in the quest to
have your child have the best yearpossible. Because we all know that their
reputations about teachers, and I've hadpersonally lots of instances where my children have
had teachers and I've been told,oh, no, that's not a good
one. And invariably it's been agood circumstance for my children because I've managed
(30:11):
to sort of manage the situation andthe teacher wasn't nearly as bad as they
said. But you're right, ittakes some effort. It's gonna take a
lot of effort from everybody. ButI think parents, I would encourage everyone
to try to take a little bitmore effort to get to know the teacher.
And yes, ever there are theypeople are reflecting in different times.
(30:32):
But some of the fundamental things,these themes I've pulled out that letting kids
know they're smart, and I meanthat all that's golden now. I mean,
I don't think I don't think anyof that changes. Tell me as
we wrap up, what have teachers'reactions been to the book. I have
had such great reactions from teachers whereverI go, Carol, whether it's on
(30:52):
a plane or whether I'm just youknow, walking around and somebody says to
me, oh, my mother isa teacher, my wife is a teacher,
you know, my husband's you know, our sons just went into the
teaching profession. I've had so manypeople say thank you, thank you,
thank you for recognizing us. Iwent back to my old high school for
a report on world news tonight hereabout my book, and I met up
(31:14):
with my former librarian and it wasthe first time we had connected in you
know, a couple of decades,and it was so so magical because the
school was so excited to have thislight shone on them. And so I
have had just folks on my onmy social media talking about it. I
think it's I mean, I thinkteachers are just thirsty and desperate right now
(31:34):
for support. More than anything else, I think teachers don't feel supported,
so I think to actually have ameasure of support and hopefully a conversation.
I'm hoping that I've sparked a littlebit of a conversation, a national conversation
about what they're doing and what theyare up against. And I've just had
such such great reaction to this,and trust me, I haven't stopped.
I'm going to keep going. I'mgoing to keep talking about this because I
(31:56):
think it's the kind of book thatwas great for when it came out in
May at the end of the schoolyear, but it'll be great for us
to talk about a little bit moreas the school year goes on. So
they've been really, really thrilled,and I've been thrilled to see it happen.
Oh that's great. And one quickplug, I too, am the
child of a public school teacher,a proud child of a public school teacher.
And yes, I agree that mymother would have been thrilled if she
(32:19):
could have read this book. Thankyou. And the other quick thing I
will say which I was delighted toread is that a portion of the proceeds
from this book are being donated toone of my favorite organizations, Donors Choose,
which helps public school teachers. Canyou talk a little bit about what
they do. It's almost like ago fund me for schools, and many
people want to know, well,what can I do? How can I
help teachers? How can I helpschools? Well, you can actually go
(32:42):
online and find Donors Choose as awebsite that directs funding two public schools,
and particularly public schools where they mightbe lacking in the resources that they need,
and you can identify and the teachersidentify these specific items that they need.
Because we all know that teachers spendtheir own life money on classrooms and
to help students and so forth,Carol, more than three quarters of teachers
(33:06):
actually will tell you that they've eitherhad or have a second job to sort
of make ends meet. So thisis a way to sort of help them
in the classroom. And you cangive money that is directed toward that whiteboard
that this teacher needs, or towardyou know, an iPad that a teacher
needs here or there. It isan organization that is devoted to helping reget
resources for teachers, very specific resourcesthat they need. And I'm able to
(33:30):
kind of lead the charge to helpthat organization as well. Yes, I've
had a representative Donuts Choose on theshow. I love them dearly. I
love what they do. Yes,and I have also I have contributed Donuts
Choos and it's so delightful to feel. You know, from a philanthropic perspective,
you give money and you hope thatit goes where you want it to
(33:51):
go. But here you are specificallytargeting what a teacher needs. And there's
a little bonus because then they sendyou lovely thank you notes from yes and
so Yes exactly, and you knowwhat you're helping education, You're helping and
tete children in a way that isreal, tangible. Absolutely so, Debrah.
As always, I could talk toyou forever about anything, and particularly
(34:13):
on this subject because I did loveyour book, and I'm gonna thank you
Carol. It's called Lessons Learned andCherished the teacher who changed my life.
I am we are audio, butI am holding the book up proudly.
I think it's so much for highlightingit, Carol. I'm just amazing,
really proud. It was a laborof love and I hope it continues to
(34:34):
give love to teachers. Oh,and I'm sure that it will. So
as we wrap up, I'm goingto say first, thank you, thank
you, and then I would lovefor you to play the GCP Lightning Round.
So I just have three questions foryou. I've tailored this specifically to
the topic of your book. Butthe first question is do you have a
favorite poem or saying that you canshare? Oh gosh, I mean,
(34:59):
you know we always go to MayaAngelo, don't we. Yeah? Yeah,
good reason, Yeah, for goodreason. And she always seems to
sort of put it in perspective.I mean, you know, listen,
we all know the whole Maya Angeloand people to tell show you who they
are, believe them the first time. So that's really just in kind of
recognizing, you know, what yousee in front of you in terms of
people and interactions. So you know, I probably loved quoting her, absolutely,
(35:22):
that's great. Okay, And nowname two children's books that you have
loved, either because you have readthem so much to your kids or that
you grew up and loved reading them. So two one of them Good Night
Moon, of course everybody's read thatforever, and idn fin item. I've
read that to my children. Ilove it, love it, love it.
But also a little known book thatwas a book that was barely finished
(35:45):
by doctor Seuss called diff and dofer Day, and it was found later
on after his death, Theodore Geisel'sdeath, and it was finally put together.
And it is this quirky book aboutlearning and how every but he learns
in unconventional ways. And it isabout a school that teaches kids in very
very quirky, unconventional ways. Andat the very end it says, you
(36:08):
will do well because we've taught youhow to think. And I loved reading
that to my kids when they werelittle, and they still quote it to
this day. Oh that's great,that's great. I bet sounds great.
And then finally, in as anhomage to your book, what was your
favorite subject in school? And doyou remember the teacher who taught it?
(36:29):
It was English? And I missusDorothy Hardy, I mean, and I
remember it because she just was avery tough task master and she inspired me.
I mean, I've learned poetry,you know, we had to learn
these classic poems in her class,you know, Rudyard Kipling. I still
remember certain lines from poems just becauseof her. And and grammar and diction,
(36:50):
and she insisted on that, andI think that's kind of where my
love of the English language and readingand all of that started. So missus
Dorothy Hardy English Great again, Devah, thank you so much. Thank you
for the book, thank you forcoming to talk to me about it.
It's always great to see you toThank you so much, Carol. This
was a real pleasure and you andI can talk on and on and on,
so we'll have to make a dayto continue. Absolutely. Thanks again.
(37:15):
Of course, I hope everyone listeningenjoyed this conversation that you'll come back
for more. Please subscribe, rate, and review where you find your podcasts
and tell your friends. For moreparenting info and advice, please check out
the ground Control Parenting website at Wwwgroundcontrolparentingdot com. You can also find us
on Facebook and Instagram at ground ControlParenting a LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis.
(37:39):
Until the next time, take careand thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground ControlParenting, a blog and now a podcast
creative for parents raising black and brownchildren. I'm the creator and your host,
Carol Sutton Lewis. In this podcastseries, I talk with some really
interesting people about the job and thejoy of parenting. I am so excited
that my dear friend Deborah Roberts isreturning to the podcast after being one of
(00:25):
my very first guests. As everyoneknows or should know, Deborah is an
award winning journalist who's the co anchorof the ABC News magazine twenty twenty,
and she regularly reports on Good MorningAmerica, World News Tonight with David Muir,
and Nightline. She wrote Been There, Done That, Family Wisdom for
modern Times with her husband, thebeloved Today's Show co host Al Roker,
(00:47):
and Deborah's latest book, Lessons Learnedand Cherished The Teacher Who Changed My Life,
is a collection of stories from ahost of great folks about their favorite
and most impactful teachers. I can'twait to talk about this with her.
Deborah and Al are the parents ofLeela twenty four and Nick, who's twenty
one, and Deborah as a stepdaughter, Courtney, who just recently had a
baby girl, Sky Clara, welcometo grand Control Parenting. Deborah, welcome
(01:11):
back. I'm so excited to haveyou back. Yay, Oh my gosh,
I'm so happy to be back.You and I of course see each
other from time to time, butrarely do we get a chance to have
a real discussion about all kinds ofthings, so I'm looking forward to it.
Hey, me too, So Iwant to talk about your wonderful book,
but at first I want to catchup. So you guys are grandparents.
Hard to believe that as fabulous asand young as you look, that
(01:34):
you've that grandparenting could be attached toyour name parent and you're impressed with I'm
so thrilled by Beautiful. I'm sohappy for Courtney, and Sky is great.
I'm trying to come up with myname and we'll see what it is.
But it will not be Grandma,right, I can assure you that
it will not be Grandma. Yeah, yeah, no, I am aways
(01:57):
from this. None of my childrenhave or thinking about having children, but
one thing that's clear to me isthat I will not be grandma either.
So so name aside, how hasit been have you experienced any of the
joy I'm told that comes along withhaving a little baby that you can give
back. Well, she's only acouple of weeks old at this moment,
and so I think more than anythingelse, I have been really giving back
(02:20):
to Courtney because she, I mean, the baby is beautiful and doing well
and thriving, thank god. Butit's really more about looking after mama because
this is a big adjustment and youremember those early days, Carol, and
particularly with your first you're just likein a fog. And I've just been
giving her, you know, advice, support, cheering her on because she
had a sea section, so she'sbeen dealing with of course the pain and
(02:45):
just getting back on her feet.So more than and I had a two
sea sections with both children, soI've had the you know, I guess,
the opportunity for the privilege of knowingwhat that's like. So I've just
really, more than anything else,privilege and quotes the privilege. The privilege
is, you're absolutely right, butthe privilege of that kind of motherhood for
sure, But really, more thananything else, just sort of trying to
(03:07):
help get her up to speed.So I think we'll really luxuriate in the
baby. I mean, al isover the moon and he just loves holding
the baby. But I'm really rightnow focused on mama, So I think,
you know, I will start toenjoy it a little bit long,
a little bit later, I think, as she sort of settles in.
So that is such. That issuch a good and thoughtful answer, and
(03:28):
and it's important to be reminded thatwhile everybody is all blissful and excited about
this baby the mom that recovery periodis no joke. It's no joke.
It's a it's a shift. It'sa bodily shift. I mean, notwithstanding
the actual birth, but the wholetime in your head and the sleep,
and it's a lot, exactly,It's a lot, a lot, And
(03:49):
I think that more than anything else. I just remember that when I was
Courtney's age. I'm pretty sure whenLeela was born, I don't remember many
people giving voice to that. Itwas one friend who said to me,
don't be surprised if, in themiddle of all the gifts and the flowers
and all the excitement and everybody justgiving you such kudos, that you don't
feel as upbeat and excited as youwant to. And I remember that,
(04:12):
and nobody else really took the timeto talk about that, and I wanted
Courtney to know that this is normal. It's natural having a little postpartum,
whether it's the blues or even alittle more than that. I want to
keep an eye on her because it'sa real thing and people are talking about
it more now than they were then, so I wanted to make sure that
she was aware. Oh absolutely,Just a quick aside on that. I
remember being pregnant with my first andhaving towards the end of the pregnancy this
(04:36):
really overwhelming feeling of being alone inthe world with the responsibility for a human
being. But everybody else could disappear, I mean, God forbid, but
if they did, I would stillhave the responsibility for this human being that
for the rest of my life.Course it's you know, it's all inspiring,
(04:57):
but also completely over It can feeloverwhelm and so she is very lucky
to have you. And I encourageeverybody who's listening that if you are helping
someone revel and having just had ababy, just be kind and remember that
it's important to let them know they'renot alone. That's the thing most people
I've talked about about any kind ofpostpartum sadness feels like they're the only person
(05:19):
in the world and feels that wayexactly exactly. So that's what that's mostly
what I'm sort of focused on rightnow. And then we'll get to like
all and the bliss and all that, right, and there's lots of time
for that, right And so nowyour other kids. There's Leela who is
twenty four and she is living thebest life. And Nicka's in college,
(05:43):
how exciting. And there's there's alovely moment in your book which I'm gonna
get to a little later about justa moment about Nick's college experience, which
which I'll get to, which Ireally enjoyed. But but now I do
actually want to turn to the bookand I've had the pleasure of reading it,
absorbing it. The good news isshort book because we all have minuscule,
miniscool tensions. Yeah, short isgood. It's short, but it's
(06:09):
and it's it's packed with really interestinginformation and I can't wait to talk about
it. First again, I willsay the name of it. It's lessons
learned and cherished the teacher who changedmy life, who changed my life.
And so so the first question Ihave for you is why this love letter
to teachers and why now, youknow, I've been a journalist for you
(06:30):
know, more than three decades,and I've covered all kinds of stories,
and as you said, I've writtena book before in conjunction with my husband.
But I was sort of looking forsomething that I wanted to say and
wanted to put out in the worldbecause I think about my experiences and every
time I talk about my teacher,my sixth grade English teacher, missus Dorothy
Hardy, and I, you know, give speeches from time to time Carol
Is as you know, and oftentimesI would mention her and what an impact
(06:54):
she had on me, just postsegregation in the in the small town Georgia
town that I grew up in,so many people would relate to that.
And so when I started kicking aroundideas and also as a journalist being aware
of the fact that teachers are justreally experiencing a very difficult time. I
mean, it's like a fifty yearlow in terms of their morale, and
(07:15):
you know, people who are interestedin the profession, there's a real crisis
going on right now in education,not just in academics, but with teachers
feeling disregarded and disrespected and so Iguess in thinking about that experience growing up
and looking back down memory lane,I just sort of put those two thoughts
together. You know, teachers rightnow really can use you know, a
(07:36):
hug. You know, we thinkabout teachers imparting advice and imparting good things
and lessons and things that we cherish, but right now they can sort of
use that. So the two ideaskind of came about, you know,
together, you know, thinking thatwas the backdrop during which I wanted to
write a book about my memories,and then it suddenly just sort of snowballed
(07:56):
into this idea of having other peoplegive their memory and share them and collect
them. And then I thought,you know, at the end of the
day, it's kind of a loveletter to teachers, which is what they
can use right now. And itliterally just organically kind of came together like
that and surprised even me as Istarted to talk to people about how potent
this message was. Absolutely and youknow, as you read the book,
(08:18):
it is truly a collection of essaysfrom various really interesting assortment of people,
and most of them are only twoor three pages long, and you can
pick out the people that you wantto hear from and read it that way,
or you can as I did,read it all the way through.
I'm good. I like that.But in reading it all the way through,
(08:39):
I really saw clearly some themes thatwhen across everyone's recollection of their favorite
teacher. First of all, itis a fun question, but particularly if
you have a favorite teacher, it'sa really fun question because it's wonderful to
be able to reflect back on theperson in school who really helped move each
(09:00):
you in some way. So throughthe book you get everyone's excitement about talking
about this issue, just as youwere excited everyone in the book is.
So I'm just I'm gonna pinpoint justa few themes. I'm not giving away
everything in the book because i wanteveryone to get it and read it.
But there are a couple of themes, Like the first one that was really
broadly mentioned across a lot of storieswas the teachers saw something in me that
(09:22):
I didn't see in myself. Youhave a few little essays in the book,
which is very nice. You aresprinkled throughout, and at the end
of one of them you talk aboutNick being in college and you encountering a
college counselor there at the school whowas a teacher who mentioned to you that
even in her brief interaction with Nickalready she could see that he had leadership
(09:43):
qualities. And clearly that was newsto you. It may be news to
Nick, but yeah, yeah,it blew me away. And it was
just, you know, when Iwas working on the book, of course,
I'm asking other people to share andunearth their memories, and I started
off with my memory, but myencouraged me to go a little deeper and
to share more about my journey andalso about my children's journey, and I
(10:07):
thought, you know, that's kindof interesting to think about Leela and Nick
and teachers who have had an impacton them. And then, of course
Nick was at that moment, justbeginning college, and that was a big
moment for us, because you know, many people know that Nick has learning
challenges, and Alan and I havetalked about this publicly, and it's been
a real struggle for him to makehis way through academics, and so the
(10:28):
idea that he is in this smallcollege is really sort of a big deal
for us. But you know,I think most of us are guilty.
I guess if there's and for lackof a better word, of not really
necessarily knowing all there is to knowabout our children. You know, we
see them, we're raising them,we're doing what we can to make sure
that they're safe and doing what theyneed to do. But sometimes you don't
(10:48):
hone in on all those little thingsthat make them interesting or that interest them.
And so to hear from a teacher'sperspective, and how many of us
have gone to parent teacher meetings rightand had the teacher describe a kid that
you kind of don't really and certainlyyeah, when she said that, you
know Nick is you tell me alittle bit about Nick and how I can
be of help. His academic advisorasked us this, and she said,
(11:09):
you know, I already see someleadership qualities in him based on, you
know, the way he's interacted withsome of his friends and the way he's
interacted with some other folks. Andwe were both like sort of blown away
because he's just getting started. Andyou know what, Carol, here he
already this After this past year,he told us that he wants to be
an orientation leader coming up in thefall, and he took a course at
(11:31):
school, kind of a seminar tosort of get him ready for the possibility
of it, and guess what he'sgoing to do it He's chosen to be
an orientation leader. So she sawsomething. I mean, I was just
hoping my kid would get in andyou know, do his laundry and make
his bed and go to class fortime and at least try to just get
there and make something out of thefirst year. And she could see that
(11:52):
he had some potential in ways thatwe couldn't. So I heard that a
lot from people, and that resonatedwith me. I was writing the book
The really one of the most memorableexamples of this. And I won't go
into too much etail because it's agreat story. But Rosie Perez writes about
a teacher, and certainly we canall get that a teacher can see you
(12:15):
and see something and help bring itout in you. But in her instance,
it sounds like this teacher really shewas not an easy student. She
was pushing away the concept of thisteacher helping her and sounds like school in
general. And he really stuck withit, sort of dove in, used
creative ways to help her see herselfa little differently. So as again I
(12:37):
won't give away too much her storyin particular seemed it reminded me how influential
teachers can be. Teachers don't reallycare, can I agree with you?
And she blew me away. Istill remember sitting on a Sunday afternoon,
because I was gathering these stories.At any time anybody was available, you
know, on a Saturday morning,on a Sunday afternoon, in the evening,
you know, anytime they would havetime for a quick zoom call with
(12:58):
me. And when Rosie told methis story, I was just mesmerized because
I had read and I knew Rosiea little bit, and I knew that
she had had a tumultuous childhood andshe had had some she's written about it,
difficulty growing up in a chaotic household, and she was a foster kid.
And to hear her just described withsuch I don't know, such visual,
(13:20):
you know, depth of what thatwas like to be this little girl
in school who didn't speak English verywell, who had a bit of a
speech impediment, and who didn't feelnecessarily confident, and to have a teacher
who not only tapped into her academicneeds, but tapped into her personal needs
and her emotional needs. He couldsee that this was a kid who was
(13:41):
just dying and crying out for encouragement. And Misty Copeland, the celebrated ballet
dancer, told me something similar tothat she had a teacher who could see
that she needed encouragement. And tohear these stories and to hear Rosie describe
how her teacher, you know,tapped into the idea that she liked dance
and that she was pretty good atsports, and he used those as a
(14:03):
way to get her to sort offeel confident and to beam and you know,
come on, and I want youto raise your hand in class on
top of everything else. And itjust was that little watering that she needed
at that moment for her seed tobe you know, nourished and to start
growing. It's a reminder that teachersreally just can see beyond you know,
how well you're doing on your test, but can see that sometimes maybe maybe
(14:26):
things aren't going great at home,maybe you are bringing to school something that
is that that is broken and thatneeds you know, healing, and for
teacher to sort of step in alittle bit and probably not even being aware
that they're doing more than just helpingyou be your best self, not thinking
they're going to create like this,you know, world class ballet dancer,
(14:48):
or this famous actress, or youknow, in the case of Sergio Hudson,
a designer. You know, theymay not know that, but they
know that they are trying to helpyou be become a better person, a
bigger person, and that is whatleads people on to success in their lives.
And another theme that really resonated acrossmany stories is this concept that their
(15:11):
teacher was the first person to tellthem in a way that they really believed
it, that they were smart,and that really resonated. I mean,
I was a student in school whowas told they were smart, and that
I know that feeling of how howmuch that infuses you with the desire to
do more. And you're one ofyour your the people you spoke with your
(15:33):
friend Adenia Walker Clark talked about themagical words that you are smart. That
really shifted her whole perspective about schooland lit a fire in her. And
in Oprah talks about that too,that a teacher not only said you're smart,
but that you're intelligent and said itwas the first time she had heard
the word intelligent and it made herfeel even that much more special. But
(15:58):
I think that, you know,we all and many of the folks I
talked to. Octavia Spencer, theactress, talked about it, you know,
having a solid home life and parentswho were very supportive. Many of
us have been told maybe in ourhome that we're smarter, we're sharp,
or whatever. But there is somethingabout hearing a teacher and authority figure,
and particularly at that time, becausea lot of these people are recalling teachers
(16:18):
from twenty years ago and thirty yearsago, when we certainly had a higher
regard for teachers than we have atthis moment, and that is something that
needs to be fixed. But wesaw them as such an authority figure.
And so for a teacher to sayyou're smart, because you know, they
see kids all day, so theyknow who's maybe smart and who's not.
That just can elevate a kid.That can actually be just the opening of
(16:44):
a door into just this world ofimagination and wonder and hope and determination.
And I think that maybe teachers don'teven necessarily recognize what that means to their
students. And that's one of thethings I wanted for this book as well,
to remind teachers that you who aredoing something pretty amazing, So please
keep doing it and keep at itand be recognized for it. Absolutely so,
(17:07):
just so quickly. A couple ofother themes that came through in what
really resonated with a lot of peopleis their ability to see themselves in their
teacher, and they really wanted tohave the approval of their teachers. I
love that everyone was so candid aboutthat, because it's true. You just
you wanted this person that you've thoughtso highly of to really like you and
(17:30):
keep giving you, keep shining onyou, and keep giving you. Also
the phrase yes, yes, andyou know what, and that's great,
and that's perfectly great. I thinkthat's kind of a human trait. That's
just natural. Everybody wants approval.Everybody wants to be validated and to be
valued. We don't think about itreally with children in that way necessarily,
but you do, and so manypeople. You're absolutely right, We're honest
(17:52):
about that about how that lit afire. I love the story. Christy
Turlington Burns, the model, talkedabout being in Miami, Florida and having
a black teacher for the first time. Christy is a part of Latina and
part white, but she talked abouthaving this black teacher who was so cool.
It was in the seventies and shewere bell bottoms and had an afro,
(18:15):
and this woman just emmin you know, she just like she showed her
what it was to be like kindof a bad feminist, you know,
a tough woman. And Christy wastaken by that. Not only was she
a good teacher who didn't take anygup, but she imparted to her that
you could be sort of a womanof the world and set a tone even
that spoke volumes to her when theteacher wasn't even speaking to her. And
(18:37):
I love that. I love that. We'll be right back after these messages.
Welcome back to the show. Thefinal theme that really struck me,
and this is sort of a differentside of teachers, how teachers used discipline
in a way that that really impactedtheir students. Two of your of the
(18:59):
people you spoke with, in particular, Melody Hobson, who talked about she
had a speech to perform and theteacher required her to come and repeat her
and practice it every day for weeksbefore her speech. Take time away from
lunch and come and sit and practice. And she said, by the time
she gave it, I mean,she had such confidence and her ability to
(19:22):
give it. But so it feltinitially maybe a little like a punishment,
but at the end of the day, it infused her with the knowledge of
the discipline it takes to be reallygood. Yeah. Yeah. And she
made it very clear too that herstory was about how tough teachers can be
on you, but how you canlearn and use that to actually to have
to develop grit. And she tellsa story that was sort of hard,
(19:45):
and I think by today's standards somepeople would see it as maybe abusive.
But a teacher who really singled herout when she missed a word on a
spelling test and she was the onlyone who did and she made Melody feel,
you know, sort of almost alittle embarrassed by it. And you
know, but Melody said she thoughtshe did it because she knew she could
handle it. She knew that shewas worthy, and she that she was
(20:07):
good at what she did, butshe wanted her to be better. And
Melody took from that, I canbe better. I will not miss this
word again and also went on to, as you said, win this contest.
So in her case, having atough teacher made her tough and made
her determined and made her like thismajor, you know, financial wizard and
business leader that she is today,right right, And in that same vein,
(20:30):
Darren Walker talked about a white teacherwho chastised him about the anger he
was demonstrating. And he prefaces hisstory with saying that many will misinterpret this
and see and see it as someonetrying to shut me down or with some
sort of racist undertones. But itwas an instance where the teacher took him
(20:52):
aside after he had a fight andsaid, you must comport yourself. That
was her line, you must comportyourself, and that black boys cannot afford
to demonstrate the anger that you're demonstrating. And again, where some might have
seen that as unhelpful and messed andbiased, it were right right. Yeah,
(21:14):
he took that. It really informedthe rest of his approach to life.
I mean, well, he tookit for what she meant, which
is that she was trying to savehim. She was trying to save him
from a system that is unfair andunkind. And while the words may not
have been elegant, she essentially wasgiving him the state of the world at
the moment. And this was inthe South back in the nineteen seventies,
(21:40):
and she basically was saying, youcan be gobbled up by the system that
won't be good to you and won'ttreat you well, and you need to
sort of learn how to control yourtemper a little bit. And I think
that Darren took that well. Iknow he took that. He talks about
that how the lesson was there thatshe had a lot of faith in him
and his abilities to learn, andshe wanted him to do well. He
saw that as a teacher who wantsme to do well and wants to protect
(22:03):
me from a system that may notnecessarily have my best interest at heart.
And he went on to become aleader. And of course this is you
know, this this major, majorbusiness leader who is running a multi billion
dollar company. I mean, hecredits that with helping him to become who
is today. Yeah. No,I thought that was really instructive because it's
(22:26):
one thing to read and be hardenedby people's experiences with teachers that are warm
and fuzzy, But the ones wherethe teachers were hard or tough, they're
helpful for two reasons. One,you see that it worked out well and
that that was a good lesson,but also and then this is going to
lead into the next part of theconversation. It also reminds us that it's
(22:48):
complicated being a teacher, and thatwe need to give teachers the space to
work with children in ways that wemay not always understand at the moment.
And yes, I want to segueto since this is a parenting podcast,
how parents can really benefit from yourbook. And the more I read,
the more I thought, Okay,this is great. This is inspirational for
(23:10):
people who are students who love theirteachers, but it's really also inspirational for
parents. And this is, asyou said before, such a tough time
for teachers. I mean they're leavingthe profession in droves. They have had
a series of years. I meanall the parents during the pandemic who became
teachers hopefully got a little bit moreappreciation for the tough time that teachers have.
But so they're coming back into asystem where children, let's face it,
(23:36):
and it's been documented children are behind. I mean there we've lost.
There is pandemic loss. It's realand alarmingly, as some reports have said,
if we don't do things about itnow, this loss will be more
permanent. I mean, we reallyhave to work hard to fill this loss.
So teachers the time, yes,to make up for time teachers are
(23:56):
going to have. It's going tobe a Unfortunately, the road is still
going to be tough for teachers goingforward. So when I think about parents,
parents, frankly, and I saythis with love, haven't always had
that top of mind. I mean, because you know, we go in
with our kids are the loved oneswe want to protect, and that's really
what we're focused on. But thething that I kept thinking is I was
(24:18):
reading through this and listening to howthese adult people are really focusing on something
that happened with them with one personin a very long time ago. So
teachers are the most significant and consistentcaregivers after parents, Like right, they
your kids spend so much time intheir company, in some cases probably more
(24:40):
time, more, more hours ina day than they do at home with
their parents, depending on what theirparents do for a living and that kind
of thing. You're absolutely right.And Carol, you said something earlier about
teachers and you touched on our confidencein them and you know their abilities and
so forth. And this is notto say that there are not teachers who
have failed. There are not teacherswho have biases. I mean, I'm
(25:02):
not going to use this to sortof paint this broad happy brush of like
everybody's got like the best teacher inthe world. I mean, we know
that there are instances, and Ithink parents will probably point to that instances
where maybe a teacher was not reallydoing the best for their child or maybe
even had a bias. I mean, we know that that exists in our
society. So I'm in no waytrying to say that every single teacher you
(25:26):
know is absolutely the best for yourchild. But I do think it's important
to when you look at a storylike Darren's, to give it a beat
and to give it a thought aboutwhat teachers are trying to do with your
children, as instead of having aknee jerk reaction to what was said or
how things were handled with your child, and not to think that maybe maybe
your child can learn something from thatteacher, even if it is a difficult
(25:48):
lesson or something that might be hardfor them to digest, right right.
No, absolutely, and I willdefinitely a second that there's to me,
this book is aspirational. I mean, these people are remembering people who sound
like stellar teachers and as in anyprofession. It is not filled with people
who are stellar. There are stars, and then there are people who are
(26:11):
not as great, and then thepeople that shouldn't be in the profession.
So it's a wide birth and parentsknow this. Actually, I'm sure parents
have had teachers. We've all hadteachers that weren't so great. I think
that when you can look at thiscompilation of aspirational teaching, it's helpful from
a parenting perspective to think this kindof teaching is possible, and first of
(26:36):
all, I mean, it exists, and it is important to remember that
it's important to look for these qualitiesin the teachers that your children have.
I mean, it's going to helpyou assess. Let's say you're a parent
who never had any really great teachingexperiences, you might go into the school
system not only very protective if yourchild and concerned about what your child is
(26:57):
going to encounter, but also unconsciouslybiased in terms of thinking that whatever a
teacher does, it's not in yourchild's best interest just because that's been your
experience. So I think with thisbook, I would encourage parents to sort
of use it to sort of stepaway from their own memories that aren't so
good. Not to erase them,because you know, you are looking out
(27:19):
for your child and we do needto see what the teachers are like,
but to remember that there are peoplewho are really dedicated to this profession.
And if you can identify any inthe schools that you are in, maybe
your child teacher or another teacher youheard about, helping to support these teachers
in their mission. We're in atime where I think even the teachers who
(27:41):
have the best instincts are feeling abit overburdened and not appreciate it. So
we got like a perfect storm offrustration. So we have parents coming in
with more concern, greater expectations,more more responsibility to put on the teacher.
And then you have these teachers whodid the best they could for the
(28:03):
most part. I'm going to beI'm going to take the optimistic approach,
but anyway, the best they could, and now the burden is greater.
It is so I last year,in the last season of the podcast,
my last guest was doctor Charlene Reid, who runs a series of charter schools
here in New York, and wetalked about teachers. She was a teacher
(28:23):
before she became a principal and thenthe executive director. We talked about the
the the how difficult it was forteachers to try to make up the gap,
and that it took three years toget into this and it's going to
take in her estimation, three yearsto get out of it, to get
out of it. And Carol,if I can just add one thing too,
(28:44):
because I think it's so critical forus to realize and remember, the
teachers are up against a lot morethan the teachers who were dealing with you
know, who are cited in thisbook. Most people are remembering teachers from
twenty thirty, maybe even forty yearsago. At that time, of course,
they had a difficult job just youknow, trying to deal with you
(29:04):
know, depending on what their classroomsize was, a lot of kids and
a lot of different learning abilities.But today teachers are dealing with violence in
classrooms. They're dealing with politics thatyou know, that dictate what they can
and can't do. Teachers are verynervous about what they can and can't say
in classrooms, and and you know, all kinds of other things. So
they are up again so many otherexternal factors too that make their jobs so
(29:29):
much harder. And I think that, more than anything else, just makes
it so much more important that weas parents work with them and recognize what
they're up against during this time inour lives. No, absolutely, And
then, as I always talk whenI talk about parents interacting with teachers,
I always say, one good wayto do that have a face to face
with the teacher, even if it'sjust a sort of a quick one in
(29:51):
the hallway. Let this teacher knowthat you are allies in the quest to
have your child have the best yearpossible. Because we all know that their
reputations about teachers, and I've hadpersonally lots of instances where my children have
had teachers and I've been told,oh, no, that's not a good
one. And invariably it's been agood circumstance for my children because I've managed
(30:11):
to sort of manage the situation andthe teacher wasn't nearly as bad as they
said. But you're right, ittakes some effort. It's gonna take a
lot of effort from everybody. ButI think parents, I would encourage everyone
to try to take a little bitmore effort to get to know the teacher.
And yes, ever there are theypeople are reflecting in different times.
(30:32):
But some of the fundamental things,these themes I've pulled out that letting kids
know they're smart, and I meanthat all that's golden now. I mean,
I don't think I don't think anyof that changes. Tell me as
we wrap up, what have teachers'reactions been to the book. I have
had such great reactions from teachers whereverI go, Carol, whether it's on
(30:52):
a plane or whether I'm just youknow, walking around and somebody says to
me, oh, my mother isa teacher, my wife is a teacher,
you know, my husband's you know, our sons just went into the
teaching profession. I've had so manypeople say thank you, thank you,
thank you for recognizing us. Iwent back to my old high school for
a report on world news tonight hereabout my book, and I met up
(31:14):
with my former librarian and it wasthe first time we had connected in you
know, a couple of decades,and it was so so magical because the
school was so excited to have thislight shone on them. And so I
have had just folks on my onmy social media talking about it. I
think it's I mean, I thinkteachers are just thirsty and desperate right now
(31:34):
for support. More than anything else, I think teachers don't feel supported,
so I think to actually have ameasure of support and hopefully a conversation.
I'm hoping that I've sparked a littlebit of a conversation, a national conversation
about what they're doing and what theyare up against. And I've just had
such such great reaction to this,and trust me, I haven't stopped.
I'm going to keep going. I'mgoing to keep talking about this because I
(31:56):
think it's the kind of book thatwas great for when it came out in
May at the end of the schoolyear, but it'll be great for us
to talk about a little bit moreas the school year goes on. So
they've been really, really thrilled,and I've been thrilled to see it happen.
Oh that's great. And one quickplug, I too, am the
child of a public school teacher,a proud child of a public school teacher.
And yes, I agree that mymother would have been thrilled if she
(32:19):
could have read this book. Thankyou. And the other quick thing I
will say which I was delighted toread is that a portion of the proceeds
from this book are being donated toone of my favorite organizations, Donors Choose,
which helps public school teachers. Canyou talk a little bit about what
they do. It's almost like ago fund me for schools, and many
people want to know, well,what can I do? How can I
help teachers? How can I helpschools? Well, you can actually go
(32:42):
online and find Donors Choose as awebsite that directs funding two public schools,
and particularly public schools where they mightbe lacking in the resources that they need,
and you can identify and the teachersidentify these specific items that they need.
Because we all know that teachers spendtheir own life money on classrooms and
to help students and so forth,Carol, more than three quarters of teachers
(33:06):
actually will tell you that they've eitherhad or have a second job to sort
of make ends meet. So thisis a way to sort of help them
in the classroom. And you cangive money that is directed toward that whiteboard
that this teacher needs, or towardyou know, an iPad that a teacher
needs here or there. It isan organization that is devoted to helping reget
resources for teachers, very specific resourcesthat they need. And I'm able to
(33:30):
kind of lead the charge to helpthat organization as well. Yes, I've
had a representative Donuts Choose on theshow. I love them dearly. I
love what they do. Yes,and I have also I have contributed Donuts
Choos and it's so delightful to feel. You know, from a philanthropic perspective,
you give money and you hope thatit goes where you want it to
(33:51):
go. But here you are specificallytargeting what a teacher needs. And there's
a little bonus because then they sendyou lovely thank you notes from yes and
so Yes exactly, and you knowwhat you're helping education, You're helping and
tete children in a way that isreal, tangible. Absolutely so, Debrah.
As always, I could talk toyou forever about anything, and particularly
(34:13):
on this subject because I did loveyour book, and I'm gonna thank you
Carol. It's called Lessons Learned andCherished the teacher who changed my life.
I am we are audio, butI am holding the book up proudly.
I think it's so much for highlightingit, Carol. I'm just amazing,
really proud. It was a laborof love and I hope it continues to
(34:34):
give love to teachers. Oh,and I'm sure that it will. So
as we wrap up, I'm goingto say first, thank you, thank
you, and then I would lovefor you to play the GCP Lightning Round.
So I just have three questions foryou. I've tailored this specifically to
the topic of your book. Butthe first question is do you have a
favorite poem or saying that you canshare? Oh gosh, I mean,
(34:59):
you know we always go to MayaAngelo, don't we. Yeah? Yeah,
good reason, Yeah, for goodreason. And she always seems to
sort of put it in perspective.I mean, you know, listen,
we all know the whole Maya Angeloand people to tell show you who they
are, believe them the first time. So that's really just in kind of
recognizing, you know, what yousee in front of you in terms of
people and interactions. So you know, I probably loved quoting her, absolutely,
(35:22):
that's great. Okay, And nowname two children's books that you have
loved, either because you have readthem so much to your kids or that
you grew up and loved reading them. So two one of them Good Night
Moon, of course everybody's read thatforever, and idn fin item. I've
read that to my children. Ilove it, love it, love it.
But also a little known book thatwas a book that was barely finished
(35:45):
by doctor Seuss called diff and dofer Day, and it was found later
on after his death, Theodore Geisel'sdeath, and it was finally put together.
And it is this quirky book aboutlearning and how every but he learns
in unconventional ways. And it isabout a school that teaches kids in very
very quirky, unconventional ways. Andat the very end it says, you
(36:08):
will do well because we've taught youhow to think. And I loved reading
that to my kids when they werelittle, and they still quote it to
this day. Oh that's great,that's great. I bet sounds great.
And then finally, in as anhomage to your book, what was your
favorite subject in school? And doyou remember the teacher who taught it?
(36:29):
It was English? And I missusDorothy Hardy, I mean, and I
remember it because she just was avery tough task master and she inspired me.
I mean, I've learned poetry,you know, we had to learn
these classic poems in her class,you know, Rudyard Kipling. I still
remember certain lines from poems just becauseof her. And and grammar and diction,
(36:50):
and she insisted on that, andI think that's kind of where my
love of the English language and readingand all of that started. So missus
Dorothy Hardy English Great again, Devah, thank you so much. Thank you
for the book, thank you forcoming to talk to me about it.
It's always great to see you toThank you so much, Carol. This
was a real pleasure and you andI can talk on and on and on,
so we'll have to make a dayto continue. Absolutely. Thanks again.
(37:15):
Of course, I hope everyone listeningenjoyed this conversation that you'll come back
for more. Please subscribe, rate, and review where you find your podcasts
and tell your friends. For moreparenting info and advice, please check out
the ground Control Parenting website at Wwwgroundcontrolparentingdot com. You can also find us
on Facebook and Instagram at ground ControlParenting a LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis.
(37:39):
Until the next time, take careand thanks for listening.
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