November 13, 2024 • 47 mins
Vanessa Bell Calloway, the talented star of stage and screen, joins Carol to chat about the joys and challenges of parenting adult kids. Vanessa opens up about raising her two daughters in Hollywood and how her role as a mom has evolved as her girls grew up and found their independence.
Carol and Vanessa dive into what it’s like to go from being an involved, hands-on mom to figuring out when and how to step back and give your grown kids the space they need. Vanessa talks about her own journey, sharing the hard and happy moments, the growth, and the friendship that has blossomed as her daughters have matured.
This compelling conversation is a reminder for parents about the importance of patience and learning to let go while staying a loving support in our adult kids’ lives. It’s full of relatable insights on how to adapt, support, and truly enjoy the new family dynamics that come as our kids grow up.
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, I
am thrilled to welcome the amazing Vanessa Bell Callaway to
the podcast. Vanessa is an award winning actress with a
(00:27):
really impressive stage, screen and television career which now spans
nearly forty years. So Vanessa has so many stage, film
and TV credits that I could take up a good
part of this podcast just listing them, so I will
just touch on just some of the highlights. Earlier this year,
she completed a star turn on Broadway in the acclaimed
revival Pearly Victorious, which received six Tony Award nominations, including
(00:51):
Best Revival of a Play. She has previously won an
NAACP Theater Award for Best Actress for her role as
Zora Neil Hurston in her Woman critically acclaimed play Letters
from Zora, and she was an original cast member of
the Broadway hit Dream Girls. Her film credits include Harriet, Southside,
with You Coming to America and What's Love Got to
(01:12):
Do with It. She's currently starring in the TV series
The Blackhamptons on b ET Plus and can be seen
in Netflix The Vince Staples Show Now. Just as a
personal fan note, she was a great addition to the
cast of Shambles, which is one of my favorite shows,
and she also had a memorable recurring role in the
final season of NBC's hit drama This Is Us. There's
(01:33):
even More. In addition to acting, Vanessa is a talented
director and producer. She's directed episodic TV and TV movies,
most recently Black Girl Erupted for b et Her. She
also created and produced the hit web series In the
Company of Friends and Cooking and Hooking Up, as well
as hosting and producing her blog talk radio show That's
(01:55):
So Very Vanessa Ooh. She is a busy woman. Vanessa
received a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Ohio University and
is a proud soor of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated.
She and her husband, doctor Anthony Calloway, have two daughters,
Ashley thirty three and Alexandra twenty nine. Welcome to grand
Control Parenting, Vanessa.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Hi Carol, how are you finally we get to talk.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I know, I know, I'm so happy. I'm happy to
have you here and get to talk with you. So,
you have been married for almost thirty six years, and
in May I celebrated my thirty sixth wedding anniversary. So
I know that is no small feat of nineteen eighty
eight club Yeah, nineteen eighty eight, exactly nineteen eighty eight.
(02:41):
Great yeah, And you are a mom to two grown
and flown young women whom you raised under the glare
of the Hollywood spotlight. So I'm really excited to talk
with you about how your parenting changes as your children's
move from being our little babies to grown folks. So
let's get started. And I want to start by asking
(03:02):
you about you, because I think all parenting stems from
how we were parented. So I know you were raised
in Cleveland. Can you tell us about how you grew
up the siblings and what was your neighborhood like.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yes, I was born in Toledo, Ohio, raised in Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
My mother moved from Toledo to Cleveland when I was two.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I grew up in the inner city, seriously inner city,
I mean running barefoot down the street using the water
holes for your book. There was a neighborhood pool you
had to walk to. I grew up in the sixties,
so you know that song dancing in the street, and
when you think of Motown, that's what I really think
about my childhood. The music blaring hot summer days, you know,
(03:46):
kool aid stands, riding bicycles in the street, barefoot, dancing
doing the twist. That's that's how I grew up Cedar Avenue, Cleveland,
which is a you know, it was in the inner city.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I grew up relatively poor. My mother was a single
mother and she worked.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
We were latchkey kids, you know, we had to take
care of ourselthing that the neighbors look at on you obviously,
but my mother worked one of two jobs, and so
we learned how to be independent very early. You had
chores you had to. I remember one of my chores
was sweeping downstairs and cleaning the bathrooms. And then you
(04:23):
take turns doing the dishes out of brother and sister.
My brother is not deceased, but the three of us
grew up together. And the one thing I remember too
about growing up in Cleveland, especially the summer we all
had We had a library club because the library was
close by and we all had to go and like
every two weeks you had to go pick our books
and you had to read them and talk about them.
(04:44):
So that was a good thing my mother, did you know,
she wore her day off whatever we do, our little
library group. But yeah, so our croom just very very
very very regular, very humble, very poor. I mean, when
we were able to go to Zayer's it was called
it Target down and if we were able to go
there and get some new clothes. Because we went to
(05:05):
Catholic school, we had uniforms so we didn't need clothes.
But when we could go there, I remember going, like
from the beginning of summer to get like your little
new shorts and your flip flops and get little T shirts.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Oh my god, that was the most fun.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
But you know, what you said about the library club
leads me to my next question. Your mom clearly had
academic expectations of you. I mean the fact that she
had you all go into the library and having them
talk about what you read and get out books. Did
you have a sense growing up that your mom was
really focused on how you learn?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I knew my mother
was doing the best she could do. And I wasn't
the best student when I was young. I grew into
becoming a good student by the time I got to
like high school and going into college, especially college. Is
I balloomed in college. I was a late bloomer. That's
what I really bloomed was college. But I knew that
she was doing the best she could because she worked
(05:57):
two jobs. And I remember oftentimes sitting at home trying
to do my homework, just perplexed because I didn't have
any supervision.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
My mother wasn't home.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
My older sister is a genius, she's now a professor,
but she was very much a loner, so.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
She'd be up in her room by herself, and I'd
just be sitting there looking at the paper, like what
the heck. So I was pretty much a C student
a lot, you know, when I was little, because I
just I needed I needed help.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I was, I was directable, but I didn't have a
lot of help until my seventh grade teacher, or who
also became my eighth grade teacher.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I had her for two years.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And that woman saved my life. And that's when I
got the confidence and I knew that I wasn't stupid,
and that I could learn, and you know that I
just needed people to help me. I'm a visual and
I also learned I'm a visual learner, so I still
I am as an adult. You show me I could
get it, but you try to explain it to me
(06:52):
just book terms.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Well, see, you have said so much. First of all,
I was going to ask you what turned you around?
And it sounds like your seventh to eighth grade teacher
really took an interest could see that you were actually bright,
notwithstanding whatever grade you were getting. Was it a he
or she?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
What did they do?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
It was she? Your name was Missus Tolbert, Missus Tolbert.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
And also I started really I also started really dancing
at that time, and that's something that everybody that I
always wanted to do, and once it was very obvious
that that's who I was, that confidence in dancing. But no,
that really turned my life around. Yeah, and my mother
put me in the dance classes that I wanted to
be in and that changed my life.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Wow. Yeah, I mean that's such a good lesson for
parents that first of all, to figure out what kind
of learner your child is. I mean, kids learn differently
and I think as parents, we all want to just
expect that they can figure it out, and we don't
give a lot of thought to how it is they're
figuring it outright. And I love that your mom put
you in the dance class and then you have the
confidence that I'm sure just spilled out beyond dance to
(07:58):
other stuff that you could do.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Did it actually really did it?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Really?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Did? So? Okay, So I became a dancer. I mean, right,
you know that's.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
How you behind all, that's how you began in your
career right as.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
A dancer, exactly as a dancer.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So not to not to mention that that was my calling,
my mother and missus tiber say me that year because
not only I learned my calling, you know, I was
able to to get the confidence to approach my calling.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
M So okay, So fast forward. Now you're raising two children.
You got these two daughters. How did the way that
you were raised impact the way that you talk to
them about about school?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
For example?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I mean, how did it did your your lessons of
finding your calling? Did that impact the way that you
were with your daughters and they were growing.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Up of course, you know, absolutely, and trying to figure
out what kind of learners they were was important to
me because, like I said, I knew what gotta learn
I was and going to the parent.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Teacher conferences were always scary.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Actually, my oldest daughter, she was, it still is, very vivacious.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Very outgoing. She was missing so busy in the classroom,
very right, but very busy.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And I'll never forget one the head of school, Vida Bowers,
is like one of the top head of schools educator
in this country still to this day. I believe she
told me that when Ashley's intelligence and her maturity kind
of lined up together, that she was gonna be okay,
(09:41):
because I was like nervous about, you know, certain things
about her, like is she gonna be able to adapt?
And is she gonna be able to just stand certain things?
Because she was like, oh here and she was over there,
and she wasn't the brightest in the class.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
She wasn't.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
She was like in the middle, but she was just
busy and she was right once her focus changed. By
the time my girl got to high school, like JUNI
and I, she took off. I mean, and I never
forget watching that happen, I said. Riveta told me that
was gonna happen to the point where she started receiving.
She went to a very elite school here Brentwood up
(10:22):
in La Independent, you know, private school, and she was
there from the seventh grade to twelfth and out of
those six years, four years she won the Student of
the Year award, so to speak, where you had to
have like the personality, the grades, the.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
You know, the leadership, all this stuff. She got like
four of those awards.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Wow, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And graduated with honors, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And then she was taking economics in her senior year
and that's how she picked her discipline for Spellman.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
She majored in economics.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So here was this Here was this girl that was
struggling through sixth grade math, and next thing I know,
she's a major in economics Spelman and graduates with honors.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
That is such a great story. That is such a
great story.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
But that reminded me of Vita saying when her intelligence
and her and her maturity and all those other things,
just when they finally when that light bulb went off.
And I remember that seeing that light bulb go off
in her, and I think that's one of the best
things as a parent or an auntie or a teacher,
when you see that light bulb go off and a
kid and you know that they.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Finally get it. We're finally all coming together.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Alexandra was different in a way because she was She's
very quiet. She's nothing like her sister. And I remember
this teacher read me for points and a woman was right.
She was in a four year old group at the
Center for Early Education, and the same four year old
teacher had Ashley four years prior when she was four
years old, and she told me, she said, Alexandra, talk
(12:00):
because you and Ashley don't give her any room in
your house.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
She read me. She sure did, she said. And Ali
was the baby so with these big beautiful eyes.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And we said, oh you want that Ali, Oh, and
I pick her up, Oh, she wants that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
She would never tell us what she wanted. She just
looking gotta nah and we would do the talking for her.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So this teacher basically told me and to shut up
for me and ask you to shut up and let
her find some space because we were sucking them all
the air in the room.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
She sure did.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
She read me some points, and you know what, she
was right, And then we started making Alli talk. But
by the time Ali, you know gets to like that
fourth fifth, sixth grade.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
The reading is you know, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And at the beginning of the year, I would get
all her books and I would read all her books.
So then when it was time for her whatever book
she was on, I had read it or I was
reading it along with her. So when the homework came,
I could have these discussions with her about the character
development of the plot because what I learned, and this
is probably what was for me the same thing. But
(13:04):
I didn't have anybody help meet. Kids retain what they
know to study. They don't know to study the nuances.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Whatever they liked in.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
The story or whoever they liked, that's what they know.
So that's what they retained. They don't retain all the
other stuff. So I was up to me to retain everything,
so I could ask her about stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I'll never forget girl, one day.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
The biggest party of the year used to be the
Ebony party here around Christmas time, Ebdy, Who's who whatever?
And I have been looking forward to this party, Girl,
it's always always in December. I wanted to go to
this party.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I was ready. Jolie and I got dressed. We clean,
we are walking out the door.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
And as I'm passing to go to the door my
dining room table, the girls are doing their homework and done,
but you know, the babysitters there and Ali is just
staring at these books. The next day she has like
a history test. She's about the fifth grade now, and
she's just staring. And I can see that baby didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Know what was going on it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I said, oh, I looked at Tony. He looked
at me. I said, honey, I'm sorry, we can't go.
He said, I understand.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I went back to the room to go off my
clothes and off my makeup and sat down with my
child and helped her study for that test.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And thank god, because she didn't she didn't have a.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Clue how to put all that information together to understand
what she needed to study for.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
You kids have to learn how to.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Study, absolutely, okay. But that is such a good story
for two different reasons. It's a really good story because
I actually have talked about this. I got this tip
from a person we both know, Kathy Schanal, who said
to me, because her boys were a little older than
my two sons, and she said, you know, I read books.
(14:57):
I read some of their books with them, and I
talked with the about the books and I thought, oh
my gosh, that is so much How you know, why
would I ever do that? Girl? When my son started
doing a lot of reading in middle school, didn't I
get all the books and read all the books. And
it's not to give them the answers at all. It's
just to understand how they're absorbing it, like what they're
(15:20):
getting out of it. And it's actually a good opportunity
to just spend time with your child just talking about
its support. They also feel supported by you, right right, No,
exactly good.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Time to read it, and then you can have a
conversation and helping because you have more time at home
to really break down and explain this character, because it's
usually those things a character development, the plot, What did
this character have to do with that character, and how
did they come together?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And if the kid didn't get it and that wasn't
their favorite part.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Of the book, they missed it right right.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
They retained what they liked.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Exactly, And it's those seeds of analysis that they get
when they're younger that helps them. You got to build
on the analytical skills of reading and for a different information.
So that's the first reason why that was a great story.
The second reason is you have described the thing that
parenting is first and foremost, it's sacrifice. I mean, I
know the last thing you wanted to do when you
(16:12):
were looking beautiful and walking to the party you really
wanted to go to was turn around and stop and
not go. But looking at your child's face, understanding that
they were having trouble, I mean, we just we have
to sacrifice, and it actually feels good at the end
of the day. I mean, you slept well that night,
I'm sure, no matter how she did on the test.
(16:34):
And you know, it's really important that parents understand you're
absolutely not doing their work for them. You're just trying
to understand how they are learning. And it's scary. These
are really competitive times in school and you don't want
your kid to be scared of the learning process. And
the extent that you made it a safe place for her,
I mean, I'm sure that that helped tremendously. So that
(16:57):
was a great parenting story of Essa, Thank you very much.
So now I want to actually move to something a
little different aspect of you are raising these girls. You've
raised your two children under the glare.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Of the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I mean in that you're in the entertainment industry in
LA and so I have two kind of general questions.
First of all, the logistics of it. I mean, how
did you manage with kids when you had jobs that
took you out of town.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, first of all, we're looking at the nineties and
things weren't as affluently given to us as there now.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
We didn't have the multiple streams of you.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Know, of viewerships and all the channels, so we still
were kind of a little basic. And I did not
take anything that was going to shoot. And everybody was
going to Canada back then, and my agents and people.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Knew in the business.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Now, did you just need me to go to Canada
for like a couple of weeks to shoot something.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's fine, But I.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Wasn't try trying to do a series because back then
you did twenty two episodes.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Now you do ten, and you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
But back then it was like the possibility you lived
in Canada for most of the year, and I was
not willing to do that. So I didn't take anything
that went there. So the only the one job that
I did take, but we didn't last week got canceled.
Was with James Earl Jones, Joe Morton, Essence Atkins, and
(18:25):
it was called Under One Roof for CBS. And I
was pregnant with Alexandra when I did the pilot, so
by the time the show got picked up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
She was born in September.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
We went on the road that February, so she's like
now quite six months.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I was still nursing.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Her, and I remember I took her to Seattle and
I asked Ashley, who was four now she's in a
four year old group at school, and I said, Ashley,
Mommy's got to take the baby with me, because I
didn't want to feel like I was deserting her just
taking the baby. I said, mommy's got to take the
baby because you know, baby still feeding, Mommy still feeding
the baby, and.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
As she's always precocious, you know, just very open to tell.
I know, mimmy. I said, now, would you like to
go to school?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
You could come with mommy and you could go to
school in Seattle with mommy and be with mommy and
Ali and baby Alli. She told me no, she wants to.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Go to her school be with her friends. She's like, yeah, no,
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So Tony brought her up a couple of times to visit,
but she's like, yeah, I'm good, I'm going to my school.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
But the show didn't get picked up. But that was
the only time I was willing.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Because they were still little and still kind of you
could still kind of be more mobile with them, especially
Ali because she was the baby, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
But we didn't last. But that was the only other time.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
So anything that was like a couple of weeks here
or a couple of weeks there, yeah, I would go
and do it. But anything that was gonna require me
being gone to majority of the year now, because I
always told Tony and you know, I didn't want the
housekeeper raising my kids, you know, and I didn't want them.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Years later said oh you left me and you weren't there,
and I needed.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You and I needed to be with them. I needed them.
I liked being pizza mom. I like being dance mom.
I like being tracked mom. I was volleyball mom, and
I was working all those moms working serious dance mom
because you know, they dancing, they be on a dance academy.
So I was a serious dance mom. But I like
(20:27):
that I drove the big suburban.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I drove the big.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
SUVs because I had a car full of girls. I
had a thousand sleepovers here, you know, and I needed
that too. And one lady I never forget, I was
pregnant with Ashley, my first baby.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
This woman randomly stopped me and she says.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I hope that's a girl, because girls keep your family together.
And she also told me she said make memories. And
I never forgot that. So they have just a plethora
of pictures and memories. Birthdays were big in my house.
I still to this day, I make memories for my family.
(21:06):
So it was just as important to me to be
around as for them.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
You know, that's really important that you say that, because
you know, people often when they think about sort of
work versus home, you rarely hear someone say I needed
to be home because I wanted to be home. I mean,
there is definitely there's definitely a value that hit some
(21:30):
of us harder than others. That you know, I hear
you I wanted to be Pete's mom too. It's not
just you do it because you have to do it,
but it's kind of fun sitting driving the car. I
had a suburban too, driving a car and all the
kids talking in the back, and every once in a
while you catch something and then you know some new
song you had heard. To me, it's a lot of fun.
So I hear you. It's not just for them.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
They interact with the other moms. So you met your friends,
and you know it's increasing the value of your own life.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I take time. Take one time. I broke down. I'm crying, Carol,
and I never forget this.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Ashley was home from Spellman and she was turning twenty one,
or she was still in college, and she's an August birthday,
and she wanted to have some girls over, some the
same girls that have become to.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
The birthday party since they were me. I to a
little sturd you know.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I set up the table when I made dinner,
and I put like finging up polish and gras, just
like they were little girls, right and they were still
like five years old.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And I set the table.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Up, and as I did that, I started crying, and
I said, oh my god, all these years I just
was busy making memories for them. But what I did,
what I really realized in that moment, I had made
so many beautiful memories for myself and really, it just
it made me just cry for a moment because the
(22:51):
moment I started doing that, I started I started seeing
all these little faces at.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
My table, five and six years old with.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Finging up polish, and it was like, oh my god,
these memories were for me too.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. So the other the other side of raising
your daughters in your business and in Los Angeles is
that they're you're you're raising them in a world that's
filled with red carpet premieres and the appearance of glamour
(23:22):
and beauty. I mean, when you go to work, if
you make.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It that way, right, So if you make it that way.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, that's what I want to know about. Clearly, your
daughters are grounded. I mean it seems to me that
you have. You spent a lot of time with them
focusing on things that weren't related to the entertainment industry.
But did you have to work to make sure they
stayed grounded?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
What you know? You do? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
But also they did do some premieres, but it was
fun stuff, you know, it was stuff that they could do,
Nickelodeon stuff and the Godmother is Star joes, you know,
so she would take them to stuff, but it was
I've always grew up with to who much is given,
much is required, So they knew that in order for
(24:05):
you to get things, you had to produce in the home.
Being polite in my house was important. Manners and respectful
and doing what was expecting you the homework and then
whatever it was expected. So when you did what you
were supposed to do, then you can do stuff. But
they grew very regular, you know, and think, and you'd
(24:26):
be surprised. Kids could care less. My kids could care
less that I was in the industry.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I was mummy. They didn't, you know, they didn't know
half the time what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
And even as adults now, if you ask them if
they've seen all myself, answers probably know.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You know, dancers, they've seen some, but they're not like
your personal stalkers.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
They can care less when a kid is young and
they like want to go to a football practice or
dance class and they got rehearsal. They don't care that
you gotta work or you got rehearsal, and like, who's
getting me to my dance practice?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Speaking me up?
Speaker 3 (25:01):
And I need to sleep over this weekend? Are you
going to be on the busier? You get they're annoyed
even as adults.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
If they called me and I don't call them right back,
it's like where were you? What? You just like, you know,
they got to have no life.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I'm still hand the foot on them divas, you know,
so they you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
They really aren't. My kids weren't really infatuated with all that.
And also a lot of their aunties are famous people.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
But these are the women that came to my house
with no makeup on and their sweatsuits and hanging out
and they call them Auntie this, auntie dad, and think
of the birthday parties.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So it just depends on the world you introduced to them.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Then when they had a little chance to do a
little red carpet stuff, it was exciting for them, you know.
And if you're out in public and people want to
take your picture, they get annoyed because you're.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Taking away from their time, right right.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
So they weren't always like all up in the glabor
part of it, like ooh, it was very annoying to
them sometimes and we just you know, and I listened
to that girl that was at everything and did everything
and had to be and all the openings and stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
So there's a lot of family stuff and just kept
it simple.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So I wanted to move to talk about parenting older children.
So you know your daughters are thirty three and twenty nine.
How has your parenting approach changed or has it changed
as they've gotten older.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh, it definitely has changed as they gotten older. And
I think you have to learn.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
You're just saying, that's a learned technique how to parent
old kids. And you learned that through the mistakes that
you made when you tried to bring over the parenting
techniques and skills that you used even from high school
and college. They don't fit anymore now when they're in
their thirties almost it doesn't fit.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
But you have to learn that.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
A lot of apologies later, a lot of arguments, tears, whatever,
and you learn okay. And one of the best things
I did was reinvent myself before my last one left
the house.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
So because they're four.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Years apart, as she was already expelming and Ali was
still here. But you know, I gotta start driving Alley
because she doesn't drive yet.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
So we dropped. Actually after school.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
I'm like, oh, my God, she's in the ninth grade.
I got to start all over for myself. Sorry for me,
I'm like, I'm back to driving and doing all this
stuff because she's in the ninth grade. Cast actually was
my savior two years before, you know, eleventh.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
And twelfth grade. She was a huge help because she
was driving a little sister everywhere.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Right, So now Allie turns fifteen, she gets her little
prevent and she wants to start driving, and of course
she's in eleventh grade. Down I'm nervous, but eventually she
starts driving herself to school and I'll never get care of.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
When she backed out of this driveway, I looked.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Around like this because that was my time of the
morning that I was shoffling her to and from school,
if I was at down, if I wasn't working, And
I said, Okay, this is time for me to start
redefining myself because what I'm not going to do is
wait till next year when she's a senior, and I'm
bumping into the walls because I don't know what to
do now that she's got her own life. And so
(28:00):
I started redefining my whole schedule. So by the time
she graduated from my high school with the Spelman child
was busy.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I was busy. My mornings were full, you.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Know, and everybody said, oh my god. Then go I said,
to go away, I said, I raised my kids to leave.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Number one. Number two, plane trains and automobiles.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Atlanta's not that far other than the face of being
off the face of the earth.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Now that's a problem.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
But everything else I could get to right. And that
was the best thing I did to start freeing myself up.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Number one.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I think that's important. I breathed myself up. And then
that approach. All their little stuff wasn't so important anymore
because I wasn't like hands only everything they were doing.
They were both gone, and she stayed in Atlanta after
she graduated for a minnute, and Alley was in Atlanta
at school.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I didn't see them.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I didn't know what they were doing, so I slept well.
I find that when the kids come home from school
is when you don't sleep good because they're in your house.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
When they're gone, you don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Right, So I mean, just freeing out myself, that was
a big help. And then once I decided not to
get out their business and you know, and I said,
one thing I can only thing I can control is
praying for them every day, which I still do.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I pray over them like they have no idea.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
That's the only thing I can control, and if I
believe that God has them.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And when I started.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Letting them go, my whole life changed because I was
able to be more, do more for Vanessa, get back
to my career and full throttle, and do what I
needed to do.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Not that I don't worry about them, not that I don't,
you know.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I ask questions if I feel I can, if they
know that they can come to me, And if I
approach a conversation and I feel resistance, I shut up.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I have learned just to mind my business and talk
speak to when I was spoken to that.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
That doesn't mean if I see something I don't like,
I don't say something.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Because.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
You know, I'm just careful how I approach it, how
I bring it up, because you'll be having such a
great time with your kid, and the next thing you know,
you have the argument because of the way something was
brought up.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
No exactly, and it comes out of left field. As
far as you're concerned, you thought got right right. You
thought you were just saying something in the in the
course of the conversation and suddenly comes to a halt
because you said it in the wrong way, and and
oh god.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I know something that feeling things in the right way.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, what you have said is so true about
having to learn to talk to them differently. I mean
it is truly with all of my kids now, but
especially with my daughter, my only girl. Sometimes I will
call my girlfriend and practice if I want to say
something that I'm not sure how it's going to hit,
you know. I'll say, like, okay, here, there is one
(31:00):
I would like to say, and she'll say, Okay, you
can't say that. So it's like, okay, well, can I
try it this way? My daughter will say, you have
a tone when you say this, or you know, and
I don't hear it because all I hear is what
I'm trying to say. And so it's good to just
sort of practice. And but it's been a real lesson
that I have to work that hard because of the
(31:21):
change relationship. It's a good thing. I mean, I think
I become a better person because I'm really trying to
understand this person as a human being, not as the
child of mine that I have any control over. It's
a little humbling, actually, but it's a good humble, I mean,
but you know, to have to be quiet and not
say anything sometimes it's hard to.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Do so respectful.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
It is like, well, I wouldn't do it that way,
but this is the way that they do it.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
So is my way necessarily the better way or is
it just a different way?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, you know, And it's taking the pressure off of
me as a parent not always have to be right
common I always have to, you know, just by just
relaxing and letting them do their thing.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I find it's taking pressure off of me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah. Yeah, no, that that's a really good point. It
has I have to think about it that way as well.
And it's also very good for our children as adults
to not have us second guessing them, because you know,
for them, the real mark of independence is when they
do do things their own way, and we want them
to be confident in their own way. And so whenever
(32:30):
I get pulled up short, or whenever a child informs
me I have stepped over the line, I have to
respect that because I don't want them looking to me
all the time as an adult, you know, to give
them they don't much approval.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
The thing that we can pat ourselves on the back floor, too,
is when you put the time in when you're supposed
to put the time in from zero to college or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
When you really put that time in and all the
bumps and bruises that that occurs.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
During that, then you can relax as an adult because
you feel good that you have given them everything that
you can, all the knowledge, all the advice, all the wisdom,
all the techniques.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
You've done it. So if you've done the best.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Job you could do it, and hopefully it has been
a very good job, you've done well, it's really not
much more you can do. And you're not stupid. They're
not stupid. They remember what you what they've been taught.
They hear our voices.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
We don't. We don't.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
They don't always say it, but we've seen it in
cases where they choose to do something and we know
that it's because of our training that they went this
way as supposed to that way.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
So if you put the if you put the.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Work in when you're supposed to, then it's a little
easy to let go when you're raising grown kids.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
No, I think you're absolutely right, So so tell me this.
Do you think that your relationship with your daughters is
has moved to more friend or are you still mom?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know, I'm I'm more. I mean, we're always mom
and daughter.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
We still have those little challenges and tons and puls
but more friends.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
And that's our relationship has gotten better.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Because there was a time, you know that college girl
that's rough, that high school college.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Oh lord, I had some come to Jesus meetings with
them defense honey, where.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
I was crying Tony. Tony was like, y'all got to
stop with my wife, you know. And the one thing
that was great about him he never left my side
when the fights. He said, then I'm choosing my wife's side.
Every time he let them know that I'm choosing my
wife's side, and you better stop messing with my wife
because you mess with her, you messing with me. And
I'm going to cut all y'allf you know, messing with me, No, seriously,
(34:39):
because when that was there were some times where, especially
my oldest daughter, she was a challenging one to raise.
She was the challenging and there was some times where
it was just like, I mean, it was just I
didn't know what kind of relationship we would have as
they got older. But because we went through that and
we did what we needed to do, of the bumps
(35:01):
and the bruises, the apologies and tears, whatever, now we
have a stronger relationship and they really now really appreciate
and respect me even more because they're grown women and
they know they could come to me for anything, and
they can come from me for something they can't go
to their dad for, especially money, you know. So it's
(35:24):
just it's just different, but it's better.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you this though, and
this goes back to having to separate yourself from them,
how do you like nobody remembers what they were like
when they were five, but we distinctly remember what we
were like when we were our children's age. Now, Like
you remember thirty three, Well, I don't know about you,
but I certainly remember thirty two. Twenty eight feels like
(35:50):
it was much sooner, much much closer than it actually is.
Do you find it tempting sometimes to sort of look
at that and say, well, when I was at age,
you know, I knew how to do ext.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Tony has that problem more than me.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Tony's always comparing them to him, himself and at whatever age,
I never did that. I'm always like, Tony, they're not you,
they're not me. He's when we were in this age.
You were hustle, you were in New York, you were
doing this, and I was doing that, but they're not
your honey. And I never really did that because I
just always felt like, you got to find out who
(36:26):
you are, what you want to do.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Good, good figure that out.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I can't mm hmmmm, good for you. I mean, that's
that's hard. I mean, I'm I'm probably better at that
than my husband is, but sometimes I have to tell myself, Okay,
don't give the advice that you would give yourself at
that age.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
You know, if they're.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Looking for advice, make sure you're advising them who they are.
So yeah, no, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
But as you know, the thing for me was the
thing that was important to me, Like once you went
to high school and you went to college and you graduated,
I know how you were raised.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I know you're not stupid.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
So I told them I'm coming back to this graduation
four years from now. So once they did what I require,
and then.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I said, you have plague my sorority. Once they did
what I required. I was good because they.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Both friends were from high school and college with honors,
on time, no incidents.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Basically, they've always been very respectful, very good girls who
have done what was required of them because we taught
them from day one to who much is given, much
is required?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Right, right, So your daughter is now married, you got
married late last year. Did you welcome a new family
member or are you saying sort of do you feel
as if she is moving to the creation of her
own family and not leaving you guys behind, but just
making the separation a little bigger When.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I tell you that God is good. This family is
such a beautiful family. From the moment we met them,
we've all very close. We have vacation together just as
much and my daughter, they love my daughter as much
as we love their son.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
His mother and I become very close.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
So when I say, my daughter married into a beautiful family,
so it's not a problem.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
It's been great.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And she has this other family because that's part of marriage.
She doesn't belong to us.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
My kids don't belong to me. They belong to the world,
and my job was to raise them the best way
we could to put them out in the world.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
She needs another family, she needs this husband. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
No, it's a real blessing. As you say that you
established such a good and close relationship with the family
well before they got married, because there's a level of
trust and of community that lots of parents don't get
to have.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I will give over, give up whatever it is I
really feel odd want, because it's not about us. It's
about those kids. It's about their marriage because they're looking
against they've been to his parents been married a long time,
and so have we, So it's about them looking at
us as examples. And that when he asked for my
daughter's hand in marriage, one of the things he's saying,
I'm very phrasing, is how easy that it's all been
(39:08):
because of our families getting along. So it made it
easy for him to want to marry my daughter because
he's marrying into a great.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Family as well.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So it's not about us, it's about them two babies.
So if I have to sacrifice something that I really
want to do or I think it's right, I'm gonna
just shut up and let it happen the way it happens.
As long as everybody's happy, then I'll be happy.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Man.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
That is so wise. Vanessa. Not everybody has the clarity
to see that, but I know when they hear that,
they will know that is the right way to be.
So I have one last question for you, one last question,
knowing what you now know about the parenting journey, go
back to where the babies were five and one, what
would you want to go back and tell that mom
(39:52):
that could have saved you some time and worry?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Okay, it's easy. If you're gonna pray, don't worry. You're
gonna worry, don't pray. I hear you.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Sometimes I get anxious, you know, and that's something I
sell remind myself to this day. I get anxious about
everything's gonna play out, how.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Everything's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I was gonna all fall into place, and because I'm
gonna work very hard now, even with those two young girls,
I was working, but I was very present every day.
But there's always something you're worried about. And I would
just say, even more so, the trust that you know
they were here, they're supposed to be here, and just
(40:37):
just pray to God that he takes care of them
to this day and beyond, and just know that it's
gonna happen. And that they're gonna be fine. They're gonna
be fine that you know you. They look like they
don't understand math right now. Maybe the readings a little slow,
but they're gonna be fine. Just stay on that path
(40:57):
and just always leave with love.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Mm hmm. Man, that's good. That's very good, man, Vanessa.
I knew this was going to be a really good conversation.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
But so I have to thank you so much. I'm thrilled.
I mean, the wisdom was just amazing. So I thank
you for that. And I'm sure that parents listening everywhere
really appreciate your advice and your expertise and your experience.
So right before we go, there's one last thing I
want to do. I ask all my guests to do this,
and it is to play the GCP Lightning Round. And
there's just four very quick questions. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Okay? Okay?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
First, give me one of your favorite poems or sayings.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Everybody came with you can't go with you. And stay
ready to be ready. Those are my two favorite says, stay.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Ready to be ready. I like both of them actually,
And so give me your favorite two children's books, and
they can be books that you read when you were
a kid, or that you and your daughters read together.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah, the all.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Times I read it, and then I read it to
them as green eggs and ham, I do not like.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I do not like the sam I am.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I will not even there, I will not eat them anywhere.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And then what's up, Jimma. I used to love that
little books, loved to read that book.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Oh okay, Shemma, all right, I will find that one.
I love green, Ada love green eggs in him and Gemma, okay,
So give me a moment that even if you could
have a do over with either one of your daughters
or maybe both of them together, if you could have it,
if you could do over that moment, you would.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Oh yeah, I know you didn't have to go on.
Ali was in the sixth grade.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
We were at our condo in Miami, and she was
in about the fifth or sixth grade, and she little
snippity whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
We got into it.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
And I never We were in the bathroom and I
beat her butt and it felt horrible afterwards, and I
apologize to her and told her I would never touch
her again.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
And I have not.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah that I've heard that a lot. You know, it's
so interesting. What do you remember what made you know
that it was not the right thing?
Speaker 2 (43:14):
It just didn't feel good.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Now, she was wrong, and she deserves some type of
acknowledgment of her behavior, right right. But and I remember
we were the bathroom and because it was an awkward
shape and the way.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I had to go after to try to get her
it was it just seemed like a lot of energy, you.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Know what I mean, right right, and trying to you know, yeah,
just afterwards, I was like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah, we won't be doing that anymore. And she's big.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
It's like she's not not that one just stapping on
her little lace at that point you got to like
lay some blows.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Weren't me, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah, she was always so little anyway, she was fatigue anyway,
you know.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yes, yeah, I apologize to her that I would never
touch you again, and I did not.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Okay, So give me the moment when you nailed it
as a mom that moment where you were like, yes,
I am, I am, I got it right.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
God has so many of those moments.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
I've had a lot of.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Those moments from you know, my kids killing it in.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Dance recitals, just being prepared for other events, but I
would say this wedding, honey, it was like yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Because by me and my daughter did not fight. Nobody fault.
The two families did, got along.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Well, and we gave her a beautiful wedding that we
let her and her fiance plan, and then the voice
in it, and everybody thought I was going to be
the takeover, and I said, no, I'm not doing that,
and I did not. Matter of fact, I hadn't let
everybody know at the reception because it was gorgeous and
they were trying to give me the credit.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I said, don't. This is the bride. This was her vision.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
In preparing to talk to you today online and looked
at pictures and not only is it absolutely beautiful, but
you can just feel in the expressions of the people
at the wedding the really good spirit. I mean, everybody
looks beautiful, they look so happy, and it looks it's
so genuine. So yeah, I would say that definitely. By
(45:18):
knowing when to speak up and when to sit down,
you definitely nailed it as a mom on that wedding. So, Vanessa,
those are great answers in a lightning round. I thank
you so much for being with us. Today. Really, thank you.
It's been so great.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I'm so enjoyed this and I think this is a
great topic especially. I want to say one thing, one
piece of advice. I want to say if somebody told
me when my kids were young that I all parents
need to know you never.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Judge somebody's children that are older than yours.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
That held on to that because we all say what
we're gonna do, and how we're gonna do it, and
what we would tolerate, and what.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Do we do boo boo, boo boom.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
I got all kinds of opinions, and too little Johnny
and Mary get to that age and start showing up.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
The little put right exactly No, that is exactly right.
That the keeping that.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
You spoiled them, and now they're whatever age and all
of a sudden, everything you said you wouldn't do, you're doing.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
So don't be judging other.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
People's kids that are older than yours because you don't
know what the heck you gonna do when yours gets
to that stage. That's some great advice and that was
given to me and I held on to that foram.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That is great advice, and thank you for sharing it
with us. That is great advice. Well, thanks again, Vanessa,
this was great. I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation
that you'll come back for more. Please subscribe, rate and
review where you find your podcasts, and tell your friends.
For more parenting info and advice, please check out the
Ground Control Parenting website at www. Groundcontrolparenting dot com. You
(46:53):
can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at ground
Control Parenting and on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis. Until
the next time, take care and thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, I
am thrilled to welcome the amazing Vanessa Bell Callaway to
the podcast. Vanessa is an award winning actress with a
(00:27):
really impressive stage, screen and television career which now spans
nearly forty years. So Vanessa has so many stage, film
and TV credits that I could take up a good
part of this podcast just listing them, so I will
just touch on just some of the highlights. Earlier this year,
she completed a star turn on Broadway in the acclaimed
revival Pearly Victorious, which received six Tony Award nominations, including
(00:51):
Best Revival of a Play. She has previously won an
NAACP Theater Award for Best Actress for her role as
Zora Neil Hurston in her Woman critically acclaimed play Letters
from Zora, and she was an original cast member of
the Broadway hit Dream Girls. Her film credits include Harriet, Southside,
with You Coming to America and What's Love Got to
(01:12):
Do with It. She's currently starring in the TV series
The Blackhamptons on b ET Plus and can be seen
in Netflix The Vince Staples Show Now. Just as a
personal fan note, she was a great addition to the
cast of Shambles, which is one of my favorite shows,
and she also had a memorable recurring role in the
final season of NBC's hit drama This Is Us. There's
(01:33):
even More. In addition to acting, Vanessa is a talented
director and producer. She's directed episodic TV and TV movies,
most recently Black Girl Erupted for b et Her. She
also created and produced the hit web series In the
Company of Friends and Cooking and Hooking Up, as well
as hosting and producing her blog talk radio show That's
(01:55):
So Very Vanessa Ooh. She is a busy woman. Vanessa
received a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Ohio University and
is a proud soor of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated.
She and her husband, doctor Anthony Calloway, have two daughters,
Ashley thirty three and Alexandra twenty nine. Welcome to grand
Control Parenting, Vanessa.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Hi Carol, how are you finally we get to talk.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I know, I know, I'm so happy. I'm happy to
have you here and get to talk with you. So,
you have been married for almost thirty six years, and
in May I celebrated my thirty sixth wedding anniversary. So
I know that is no small feat of nineteen eighty
eight club Yeah, nineteen eighty eight, exactly nineteen eighty eight.
(02:41):
Great yeah, And you are a mom to two grown
and flown young women whom you raised under the glare
of the Hollywood spotlight. So I'm really excited to talk
with you about how your parenting changes as your children's
move from being our little babies to grown folks. So
let's get started. And I want to start by asking
(03:02):
you about you, because I think all parenting stems from
how we were parented. So I know you were raised
in Cleveland. Can you tell us about how you grew
up the siblings and what was your neighborhood like.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yes, I was born in Toledo, Ohio, raised in Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
My mother moved from Toledo to Cleveland when I was two.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I grew up in the inner city, seriously inner city,
I mean running barefoot down the street using the water
holes for your book. There was a neighborhood pool you
had to walk to. I grew up in the sixties,
so you know that song dancing in the street, and
when you think of Motown, that's what I really think
about my childhood. The music blaring hot summer days, you know,
(03:46):
kool aid stands, riding bicycles in the street, barefoot, dancing
doing the twist. That's that's how I grew up Cedar Avenue, Cleveland,
which is a you know, it was in the inner city.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I grew up relatively poor. My mother was a single
mother and she worked.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
We were latchkey kids, you know, we had to take
care of ourselthing that the neighbors look at on you obviously,
but my mother worked one of two jobs, and so
we learned how to be independent very early. You had
chores you had to. I remember one of my chores
was sweeping downstairs and cleaning the bathrooms. And then you
(04:23):
take turns doing the dishes out of brother and sister.
My brother is not deceased, but the three of us
grew up together. And the one thing I remember too
about growing up in Cleveland, especially the summer we all
had We had a library club because the library was
close by and we all had to go and like
every two weeks you had to go pick our books
and you had to read them and talk about them.
(04:44):
So that was a good thing my mother, did you know,
she wore her day off whatever we do, our little
library group. But yeah, so our croom just very very
very very regular, very humble, very poor. I mean, when
we were able to go to Zayer's it was called
it Target down and if we were able to go
there and get some new clothes. Because we went to
(05:05):
Catholic school, we had uniforms so we didn't need clothes.
But when we could go there, I remember going, like
from the beginning of summer to get like your little
new shorts and your flip flops and get little T shirts.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Oh my god, that was the most fun.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
But you know, what you said about the library club
leads me to my next question. Your mom clearly had
academic expectations of you. I mean the fact that she
had you all go into the library and having them
talk about what you read and get out books. Did
you have a sense growing up that your mom was
really focused on how you learn?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I knew my mother
was doing the best she could do. And I wasn't
the best student when I was young. I grew into
becoming a good student by the time I got to
like high school and going into college, especially college. Is
I balloomed in college. I was a late bloomer. That's
what I really bloomed was college. But I knew that
she was doing the best she could because she worked
(05:57):
two jobs. And I remember oftentimes sitting at home trying
to do my homework, just perplexed because I didn't have
any supervision.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
My mother wasn't home.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
My older sister is a genius, she's now a professor,
but she was very much a loner, so.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
She'd be up in her room by herself, and I'd
just be sitting there looking at the paper, like what
the heck. So I was pretty much a C student
a lot, you know, when I was little, because I
just I needed I needed help.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I was, I was directable, but I didn't have a
lot of help until my seventh grade teacher, or who
also became my eighth grade teacher.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I had her for two years.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And that woman saved my life. And that's when I
got the confidence and I knew that I wasn't stupid,
and that I could learn, and you know that I
just needed people to help me. I'm a visual and
I also learned I'm a visual learner, so I still
I am as an adult. You show me I could
get it, but you try to explain it to me
(06:52):
just book terms.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Well, see, you have said so much. First of all,
I was going to ask you what turned you around?
And it sounds like your seventh to eighth grade teacher
really took an interest could see that you were actually bright,
notwithstanding whatever grade you were getting. Was it a he
or she?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
What did they do?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
It was she? Your name was Missus Tolbert, Missus Tolbert.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
And also I started really I also started really dancing
at that time, and that's something that everybody that I
always wanted to do, and once it was very obvious
that that's who I was, that confidence in dancing. But no,
that really turned my life around. Yeah, and my mother
put me in the dance classes that I wanted to
be in and that changed my life.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Wow. Yeah, I mean that's such a good lesson for
parents that first of all, to figure out what kind
of learner your child is. I mean, kids learn differently
and I think as parents, we all want to just
expect that they can figure it out, and we don't
give a lot of thought to how it is they're
figuring it outright. And I love that your mom put
you in the dance class and then you have the
confidence that I'm sure just spilled out beyond dance to
(07:58):
other stuff that you could do.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Did it actually really did it?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Really?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Did? So? Okay, So I became a dancer. I mean, right,
you know that's.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
How you behind all, that's how you began in your
career right as.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
A dancer, exactly as a dancer.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So not to not to mention that that was my calling,
my mother and missus tiber say me that year because
not only I learned my calling, you know, I was
able to to get the confidence to approach my calling.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
M So okay, So fast forward. Now you're raising two children.
You got these two daughters. How did the way that
you were raised impact the way that you talk to
them about about school?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
For example?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I mean, how did it did your your lessons of
finding your calling? Did that impact the way that you
were with your daughters and they were growing.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Up of course, you know, absolutely, and trying to figure
out what kind of learners they were was important to
me because, like I said, I knew what gotta learn
I was and going to the parent.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Teacher conferences were always scary.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Actually, my oldest daughter, she was, it still is, very vivacious.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Very outgoing. She was missing so busy in the classroom,
very right, but very busy.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And I'll never forget one the head of school, Vida Bowers,
is like one of the top head of schools educator
in this country still to this day. I believe she
told me that when Ashley's intelligence and her maturity kind
of lined up together, that she was gonna be okay,
(09:41):
because I was like nervous about, you know, certain things
about her, like is she gonna be able to adapt?
And is she gonna be able to just stand certain things?
Because she was like, oh here and she was over there,
and she wasn't the brightest in the class.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
She wasn't.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
She was like in the middle, but she was just
busy and she was right once her focus changed. By
the time my girl got to high school, like JUNI
and I, she took off. I mean, and I never
forget watching that happen, I said. Riveta told me that
was gonna happen to the point where she started receiving.
She went to a very elite school here Brentwood up
(10:22):
in La Independent, you know, private school, and she was
there from the seventh grade to twelfth and out of
those six years, four years she won the Student of
the Year award, so to speak, where you had to
have like the personality, the grades, the.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
You know, the leadership, all this stuff. She got like
four of those awards.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Wow, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And graduated with honors, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And then she was taking economics in her senior year
and that's how she picked her discipline for Spellman.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
She majored in economics.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So here was this Here was this girl that was
struggling through sixth grade math, and next thing I know,
she's a major in economics Spelman and graduates with honors.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
That is such a great story. That is such a
great story.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
But that reminded me of Vita saying when her intelligence
and her and her maturity and all those other things,
just when they finally when that light bulb went off.
And I remember that seeing that light bulb go off
in her, and I think that's one of the best
things as a parent or an auntie or a teacher,
when you see that light bulb go off and a
kid and you know that they.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Finally get it. We're finally all coming together.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Alexandra was different in a way because she was She's
very quiet. She's nothing like her sister. And I remember
this teacher read me for points and a woman was right.
She was in a four year old group at the
Center for Early Education, and the same four year old
teacher had Ashley four years prior when she was four
years old, and she told me, she said, Alexandra, talk
(12:00):
because you and Ashley don't give her any room in
your house.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
She read me. She sure did, she said. And Ali
was the baby so with these big beautiful eyes.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And we said, oh you want that Ali, Oh, and
I pick her up, Oh, she wants that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
She would never tell us what she wanted. She just
looking gotta nah and we would do the talking for her.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So this teacher basically told me and to shut up
for me and ask you to shut up and let
her find some space because we were sucking them all
the air in the room.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
She sure did.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
She read me some points, and you know what, she
was right, And then we started making Alli talk. But
by the time Ali, you know gets to like that
fourth fifth, sixth grade.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
The reading is you know, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And at the beginning of the year, I would get
all her books and I would read all her books.
So then when it was time for her whatever book
she was on, I had read it or I was
reading it along with her. So when the homework came,
I could have these discussions with her about the character
development of the plot because what I learned, and this
is probably what was for me the same thing. But
(13:04):
I didn't have anybody help meet. Kids retain what they
know to study. They don't know to study the nuances.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Whatever they liked in.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
The story or whoever they liked, that's what they know.
So that's what they retained. They don't retain all the
other stuff. So I was up to me to retain everything,
so I could ask her about stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I'll never forget girl, one day.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
The biggest party of the year used to be the
Ebony party here around Christmas time, Ebdy, Who's who whatever?
And I have been looking forward to this party, Girl,
it's always always in December. I wanted to go to
this party.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I was ready. Jolie and I got dressed. We clean,
we are walking out the door.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
And as I'm passing to go to the door my
dining room table, the girls are doing their homework and done,
but you know, the babysitters there and Ali is just
staring at these books. The next day she has like
a history test. She's about the fifth grade now, and
she's just staring. And I can see that baby didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Know what was going on it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I said, oh, I looked at Tony. He looked
at me. I said, honey, I'm sorry, we can't go.
He said, I understand.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I went back to the room to go off my
clothes and off my makeup and sat down with my
child and helped her study for that test.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And thank god, because she didn't she didn't have a.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Clue how to put all that information together to understand
what she needed to study for.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
You kids have to learn how to.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Study, absolutely, okay. But that is such a good story
for two different reasons. It's a really good story because
I actually have talked about this. I got this tip
from a person we both know, Kathy Schanal, who said
to me, because her boys were a little older than
my two sons, and she said, you know, I read books.
(14:57):
I read some of their books with them, and I
talked with the about the books and I thought, oh
my gosh, that is so much How you know, why
would I ever do that? Girl? When my son started
doing a lot of reading in middle school, didn't I
get all the books and read all the books. And
it's not to give them the answers at all. It's
just to understand how they're absorbing it, like what they're
(15:20):
getting out of it. And it's actually a good opportunity
to just spend time with your child just talking about
its support. They also feel supported by you, right right, No,
exactly good.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Time to read it, and then you can have a
conversation and helping because you have more time at home
to really break down and explain this character, because it's
usually those things a character development, the plot, What did
this character have to do with that character, and how
did they come together?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And if the kid didn't get it and that wasn't
their favorite part.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Of the book, they missed it right right.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
They retained what they liked.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Exactly, And it's those seeds of analysis that they get
when they're younger that helps them. You got to build
on the analytical skills of reading and for a different information.
So that's the first reason why that was a great story.
The second reason is you have described the thing that
parenting is first and foremost, it's sacrifice. I mean, I
know the last thing you wanted to do when you
(16:12):
were looking beautiful and walking to the party you really
wanted to go to was turn around and stop and
not go. But looking at your child's face, understanding that
they were having trouble, I mean, we just we have
to sacrifice, and it actually feels good at the end
of the day. I mean, you slept well that night,
I'm sure, no matter how she did on the test.
(16:34):
And you know, it's really important that parents understand you're
absolutely not doing their work for them. You're just trying
to understand how they are learning. And it's scary. These
are really competitive times in school and you don't want
your kid to be scared of the learning process. And
the extent that you made it a safe place for her,
I mean, I'm sure that that helped tremendously. So that
(16:57):
was a great parenting story of Essa, Thank you very much.
So now I want to actually move to something a
little different aspect of you are raising these girls. You've
raised your two children under the glare.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Of the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I mean in that you're in the entertainment industry in
LA and so I have two kind of general questions.
First of all, the logistics of it. I mean, how
did you manage with kids when you had jobs that
took you out of town.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, first of all, we're looking at the nineties and
things weren't as affluently given to us as there now.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
We didn't have the multiple streams of you.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Know, of viewerships and all the channels, so we still
were kind of a little basic. And I did not
take anything that was going to shoot. And everybody was
going to Canada back then, and my agents and people.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Knew in the business.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Now, did you just need me to go to Canada
for like a couple of weeks to shoot something.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's fine, But I.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Wasn't try trying to do a series because back then
you did twenty two episodes.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Now you do ten, and you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
But back then it was like the possibility you lived
in Canada for most of the year, and I was
not willing to do that. So I didn't take anything
that went there. So the only the one job that
I did take, but we didn't last week got canceled.
Was with James Earl Jones, Joe Morton, Essence Atkins, and
(18:25):
it was called Under One Roof for CBS. And I
was pregnant with Alexandra when I did the pilot, so
by the time the show got picked up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
She was born in September.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
We went on the road that February, so she's like
now quite six months.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I was still nursing.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Her, and I remember I took her to Seattle and
I asked Ashley, who was four now she's in a
four year old group at school, and I said, Ashley,
Mommy's got to take the baby with me, because I
didn't want to feel like I was deserting her just
taking the baby. I said, mommy's got to take the
baby because you know, baby still feeding, Mommy still feeding
the baby, and.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
As she's always precocious, you know, just very open to tell.
I know, mimmy. I said, now, would you like to
go to school?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
You could come with mommy and you could go to
school in Seattle with mommy and be with mommy and
Ali and baby Alli. She told me no, she wants to.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Go to her school be with her friends. She's like, yeah, no,
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So Tony brought her up a couple of times to visit,
but she's like, yeah, I'm good, I'm going to my school.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
But the show didn't get picked up. But that was
the only time I was willing.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Because they were still little and still kind of you
could still kind of be more mobile with them, especially
Ali because she was the baby, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
But we didn't last. But that was the only other time.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
So anything that was like a couple of weeks here
or a couple of weeks there, yeah, I would go
and do it. But anything that was gonna require me
being gone to majority of the year now, because I
always told Tony and you know, I didn't want the
housekeeper raising my kids, you know, and I didn't want them.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Years later said oh you left me and you weren't there,
and I needed.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You and I needed to be with them. I needed them.
I liked being pizza mom. I like being dance mom.
I like being tracked mom. I was volleyball mom, and
I was working all those moms working serious dance mom
because you know, they dancing, they be on a dance academy.
So I was a serious dance mom. But I like
(20:27):
that I drove the big suburban.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I drove the big.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
SUVs because I had a car full of girls. I
had a thousand sleepovers here, you know, and I needed
that too. And one lady I never forget, I was
pregnant with Ashley, my first baby.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
This woman randomly stopped me and she says.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I hope that's a girl, because girls keep your family together.
And she also told me she said make memories. And
I never forgot that. So they have just a plethora
of pictures and memories. Birthdays were big in my house.
I still to this day, I make memories for my family.
(21:06):
So it was just as important to me to be
around as for them.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
You know, that's really important that you say that, because
you know, people often when they think about sort of
work versus home, you rarely hear someone say I needed
to be home because I wanted to be home. I mean,
there is definitely there's definitely a value that hit some
(21:30):
of us harder than others. That you know, I hear
you I wanted to be Pete's mom too. It's not
just you do it because you have to do it,
but it's kind of fun sitting driving the car. I
had a suburban too, driving a car and all the
kids talking in the back, and every once in a
while you catch something and then you know some new
song you had heard. To me, it's a lot of fun.
So I hear you. It's not just for them.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
They interact with the other moms. So you met your friends,
and you know it's increasing the value of your own life.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I take time. Take one time. I broke down. I'm crying, Carol,
and I never forget this.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Ashley was home from Spellman and she was turning twenty one,
or she was still in college, and she's an August birthday,
and she wanted to have some girls over, some the
same girls that have become to.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
The birthday party since they were me. I to a
little sturd you know.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I set up the table when I made dinner,
and I put like finging up polish and gras, just
like they were little girls, right and they were still
like five years old.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And I set the table.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Up, and as I did that, I started crying, and
I said, oh my god, all these years I just
was busy making memories for them. But what I did,
what I really realized in that moment, I had made
so many beautiful memories for myself and really, it just
it made me just cry for a moment because the
(22:51):
moment I started doing that, I started I started seeing
all these little faces at.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
My table, five and six years old with.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Finging up polish, and it was like, oh my god,
these memories were for me too.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. So the other the other side of raising
your daughters in your business and in Los Angeles is
that they're you're you're raising them in a world that's
filled with red carpet premieres and the appearance of glamour
(23:22):
and beauty. I mean, when you go to work, if
you make.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It that way, right, So if you make it that way.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, that's what I want to know about. Clearly, your
daughters are grounded. I mean it seems to me that
you have. You spent a lot of time with them
focusing on things that weren't related to the entertainment industry.
But did you have to work to make sure they
stayed grounded?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
What you know? You do? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
But also they did do some premieres, but it was
fun stuff, you know, it was stuff that they could do,
Nickelodeon stuff and the Godmother is Star joes, you know,
so she would take them to stuff, but it was
I've always grew up with to who much is given,
much is required, So they knew that in order for
(24:05):
you to get things, you had to produce in the home.
Being polite in my house was important. Manners and respectful
and doing what was expecting you the homework and then
whatever it was expected. So when you did what you
were supposed to do, then you can do stuff. But
they grew very regular, you know, and think, and you'd
(24:26):
be surprised. Kids could care less. My kids could care
less that I was in the industry.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I was mummy. They didn't, you know, they didn't know
half the time what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
And even as adults now, if you ask them if
they've seen all myself, answers probably know.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You know, dancers, they've seen some, but they're not like
your personal stalkers.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
They can care less when a kid is young and
they like want to go to a football practice or
dance class and they got rehearsal. They don't care that
you gotta work or you got rehearsal, and like, who's
getting me to my dance practice?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Speaking me up?
Speaker 3 (25:01):
And I need to sleep over this weekend? Are you
going to be on the busier? You get they're annoyed
even as adults.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
If they called me and I don't call them right back,
it's like where were you? What? You just like, you know,
they got to have no life.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I'm still hand the foot on them divas, you know,
so they you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
They really aren't. My kids weren't really infatuated with all that.
And also a lot of their aunties are famous people.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
But these are the women that came to my house
with no makeup on and their sweatsuits and hanging out
and they call them Auntie this, auntie dad, and think
of the birthday parties.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So it just depends on the world you introduced to them.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Then when they had a little chance to do a
little red carpet stuff, it was exciting for them, you know.
And if you're out in public and people want to
take your picture, they get annoyed because you're.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Taking away from their time, right right.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
So they weren't always like all up in the glabor
part of it, like ooh, it was very annoying to
them sometimes and we just you know, and I listened
to that girl that was at everything and did everything
and had to be and all the openings and stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
So there's a lot of family stuff and just kept
it simple.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So I wanted to move to talk about parenting older children.
So you know your daughters are thirty three and twenty nine.
How has your parenting approach changed or has it changed
as they've gotten older.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh, it definitely has changed as they gotten older. And
I think you have to learn.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
You're just saying, that's a learned technique how to parent
old kids. And you learned that through the mistakes that
you made when you tried to bring over the parenting
techniques and skills that you used even from high school
and college. They don't fit anymore now when they're in
their thirties almost it doesn't fit.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
But you have to learn that.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
A lot of apologies later, a lot of arguments, tears, whatever,
and you learn okay. And one of the best things
I did was reinvent myself before my last one left
the house.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
So because they're four.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Years apart, as she was already expelming and Ali was
still here. But you know, I gotta start driving Alley
because she doesn't drive yet.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
So we dropped. Actually after school.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
I'm like, oh, my God, she's in the ninth grade.
I got to start all over for myself. Sorry for me,
I'm like, I'm back to driving and doing all this
stuff because she's in the ninth grade. Cast actually was
my savior two years before, you know, eleventh.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
And twelfth grade. She was a huge help because she
was driving a little sister everywhere.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Right, So now Allie turns fifteen, she gets her little
prevent and she wants to start driving, and of course
she's in eleventh grade. Down I'm nervous, but eventually she
starts driving herself to school and I'll never get care of.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
When she backed out of this driveway, I looked.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Around like this because that was my time of the
morning that I was shoffling her to and from school,
if I was at down, if I wasn't working, And
I said, Okay, this is time for me to start
redefining myself because what I'm not going to do is
wait till next year when she's a senior, and I'm
bumping into the walls because I don't know what to
do now that she's got her own life. And so
(28:00):
I started redefining my whole schedule. So by the time
she graduated from my high school with the Spelman child
was busy.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I was busy. My mornings were full, you.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Know, and everybody said, oh my god. Then go I said,
to go away, I said, I raised my kids to leave.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Number one. Number two, plane trains and automobiles.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Atlanta's not that far other than the face of being
off the face of the earth.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Now that's a problem.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
But everything else I could get to right. And that
was the best thing I did to start freeing myself up.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Number one.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I think that's important. I breathed myself up. And then
that approach. All their little stuff wasn't so important anymore
because I wasn't like hands only everything they were doing.
They were both gone, and she stayed in Atlanta after
she graduated for a minnute, and Alley was in Atlanta
at school.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I didn't see them.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I didn't know what they were doing, so I slept well.
I find that when the kids come home from school
is when you don't sleep good because they're in your house.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
When they're gone, you don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Right, So I mean, just freeing out myself, that was
a big help. And then once I decided not to
get out their business and you know, and I said,
one thing I can only thing I can control is
praying for them every day, which I still do.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I pray over them like they have no idea.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
That's the only thing I can control, and if I
believe that God has them.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And when I started.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Letting them go, my whole life changed because I was
able to be more, do more for Vanessa, get back
to my career and full throttle, and do what I
needed to do.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Not that I don't worry about them, not that I don't,
you know.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I ask questions if I feel I can, if they
know that they can come to me, And if I
approach a conversation and I feel resistance, I shut up.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I have learned just to mind my business and talk
speak to when I was spoken to that.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
That doesn't mean if I see something I don't like,
I don't say something.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Because.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
You know, I'm just careful how I approach it, how
I bring it up, because you'll be having such a
great time with your kid, and the next thing you know,
you have the argument because of the way something was
brought up.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
No exactly, and it comes out of left field. As
far as you're concerned, you thought got right right. You
thought you were just saying something in the in the
course of the conversation and suddenly comes to a halt
because you said it in the wrong way, and and
oh god.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I know something that feeling things in the right way.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, what you have said is so true about
having to learn to talk to them differently. I mean
it is truly with all of my kids now, but
especially with my daughter, my only girl. Sometimes I will
call my girlfriend and practice if I want to say
something that I'm not sure how it's going to hit,
you know. I'll say, like, okay, here, there is one
(31:00):
I would like to say, and she'll say, Okay, you
can't say that. So it's like, okay, well, can I
try it this way? My daughter will say, you have
a tone when you say this, or you know, and
I don't hear it because all I hear is what
I'm trying to say. And so it's good to just
sort of practice. And but it's been a real lesson
that I have to work that hard because of the
(31:21):
change relationship. It's a good thing. I mean, I think
I become a better person because I'm really trying to
understand this person as a human being, not as the
child of mine that I have any control over. It's
a little humbling, actually, but it's a good humble, I mean,
but you know, to have to be quiet and not
say anything sometimes it's hard to.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Do so respectful.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
It is like, well, I wouldn't do it that way,
but this is the way that they do it.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
So is my way necessarily the better way or is
it just a different way?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, you know, And it's taking the pressure off of
me as a parent not always have to be right
common I always have to, you know, just by just
relaxing and letting them do their thing.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I find it's taking pressure off of me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah. Yeah, no, that that's a really good point. It
has I have to think about it that way as well.
And it's also very good for our children as adults
to not have us second guessing them, because you know,
for them, the real mark of independence is when they
do do things their own way, and we want them
to be confident in their own way. And so whenever
(32:30):
I get pulled up short, or whenever a child informs
me I have stepped over the line, I have to
respect that because I don't want them looking to me
all the time as an adult, you know, to give
them they don't much approval.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
The thing that we can pat ourselves on the back floor, too,
is when you put the time in when you're supposed
to put the time in from zero to college or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
When you really put that time in and all the
bumps and bruises that that occurs.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
During that, then you can relax as an adult because
you feel good that you have given them everything that
you can, all the knowledge, all the advice, all the wisdom,
all the techniques.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
You've done it. So if you've done the best.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Job you could do it, and hopefully it has been
a very good job, you've done well, it's really not
much more you can do. And you're not stupid. They're
not stupid. They remember what you what they've been taught.
They hear our voices.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
We don't. We don't.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
They don't always say it, but we've seen it in
cases where they choose to do something and we know
that it's because of our training that they went this
way as supposed to that way.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
So if you put the if you put the.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Work in when you're supposed to, then it's a little
easy to let go when you're raising grown kids.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
No, I think you're absolutely right, So so tell me this.
Do you think that your relationship with your daughters is
has moved to more friend or are you still mom?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know, I'm I'm more. I mean, we're always mom
and daughter.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
We still have those little challenges and tons and puls
but more friends.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
And that's our relationship has gotten better.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Because there was a time, you know that college girl
that's rough, that high school college.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Oh lord, I had some come to Jesus meetings with
them defense honey, where.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
I was crying Tony. Tony was like, y'all got to
stop with my wife, you know. And the one thing
that was great about him he never left my side
when the fights. He said, then I'm choosing my wife's side.
Every time he let them know that I'm choosing my
wife's side, and you better stop messing with my wife
because you mess with her, you messing with me. And
I'm going to cut all y'allf you know, messing with me, No, seriously,
(34:39):
because when that was there were some times where, especially
my oldest daughter, she was a challenging one to raise.
She was the challenging and there was some times where
it was just like, I mean, it was just I
didn't know what kind of relationship we would have as
they got older. But because we went through that and
we did what we needed to do, of the bumps
(35:01):
and the bruises, the apologies and tears, whatever, now we
have a stronger relationship and they really now really appreciate
and respect me even more because they're grown women and
they know they could come to me for anything, and
they can come from me for something they can't go
to their dad for, especially money, you know. So it's
(35:24):
just it's just different, but it's better.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you this though, and
this goes back to having to separate yourself from them,
how do you like nobody remembers what they were like
when they were five, but we distinctly remember what we
were like when we were our children's age. Now, Like
you remember thirty three, Well, I don't know about you,
but I certainly remember thirty two. Twenty eight feels like
(35:50):
it was much sooner, much much closer than it actually is.
Do you find it tempting sometimes to sort of look
at that and say, well, when I was at age,
you know, I knew how to do ext.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Tony has that problem more than me.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Tony's always comparing them to him, himself and at whatever age,
I never did that. I'm always like, Tony, they're not you,
they're not me. He's when we were in this age.
You were hustle, you were in New York, you were
doing this, and I was doing that, but they're not
your honey. And I never really did that because I
just always felt like, you got to find out who
(36:26):
you are, what you want to do.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Good, good figure that out.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I can't mm hmmmm, good for you. I mean, that's
that's hard. I mean, I'm I'm probably better at that
than my husband is, but sometimes I have to tell myself, Okay,
don't give the advice that you would give yourself at
that age.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
You know, if they're.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Looking for advice, make sure you're advising them who they are.
So yeah, no, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
But as you know, the thing for me was the
thing that was important to me, Like once you went
to high school and you went to college and you graduated,
I know how you were raised.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I know you're not stupid.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
So I told them I'm coming back to this graduation
four years from now. So once they did what I require,
and then.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I said, you have plague my sorority. Once they did
what I required. I was good because they.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Both friends were from high school and college with honors,
on time, no incidents.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Basically, they've always been very respectful, very good girls who
have done what was required of them because we taught
them from day one to who much is given, much
is required?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Right, right, So your daughter is now married, you got
married late last year. Did you welcome a new family
member or are you saying sort of do you feel
as if she is moving to the creation of her
own family and not leaving you guys behind, but just
making the separation a little bigger When.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I tell you that God is good. This family is
such a beautiful family. From the moment we met them,
we've all very close. We have vacation together just as
much and my daughter, they love my daughter as much
as we love their son.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
His mother and I become very close.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
So when I say, my daughter married into a beautiful family,
so it's not a problem.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
It's been great.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And she has this other family because that's part of marriage.
She doesn't belong to us.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
My kids don't belong to me. They belong to the world,
and my job was to raise them the best way
we could to put them out in the world.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
She needs another family, she needs this husband. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
No, it's a real blessing. As you say that you
established such a good and close relationship with the family
well before they got married, because there's a level of
trust and of community that lots of parents don't get
to have.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I will give over, give up whatever it is I
really feel odd want, because it's not about us. It's
about those kids. It's about their marriage because they're looking
against they've been to his parents been married a long time,
and so have we, So it's about them looking at
us as examples. And that when he asked for my
daughter's hand in marriage, one of the things he's saying,
I'm very phrasing, is how easy that it's all been
(39:08):
because of our families getting along. So it made it
easy for him to want to marry my daughter because
he's marrying into a great.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Family as well.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So it's not about us, it's about them two babies.
So if I have to sacrifice something that I really
want to do or I think it's right, I'm gonna
just shut up and let it happen the way it happens.
As long as everybody's happy, then I'll be happy.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Man.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
That is so wise. Vanessa. Not everybody has the clarity
to see that, but I know when they hear that,
they will know that is the right way to be.
So I have one last question for you, one last question,
knowing what you now know about the parenting journey, go
back to where the babies were five and one, what
would you want to go back and tell that mom
(39:52):
that could have saved you some time and worry?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Okay, it's easy. If you're gonna pray, don't worry. You're
gonna worry, don't pray. I hear you.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Sometimes I get anxious, you know, and that's something I
sell remind myself to this day. I get anxious about
everything's gonna play out, how.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Everything's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I was gonna all fall into place, and because I'm
gonna work very hard now, even with those two young girls,
I was working, but I was very present every day.
But there's always something you're worried about. And I would
just say, even more so, the trust that you know
they were here, they're supposed to be here, and just
(40:37):
just pray to God that he takes care of them
to this day and beyond, and just know that it's
gonna happen. And that they're gonna be fine. They're gonna
be fine that you know you. They look like they
don't understand math right now. Maybe the readings a little slow,
but they're gonna be fine. Just stay on that path
(40:57):
and just always leave with love.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Mm hmm. Man, that's good. That's very good, man, Vanessa.
I knew this was going to be a really good conversation.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
But so I have to thank you so much. I'm thrilled.
I mean, the wisdom was just amazing. So I thank
you for that. And I'm sure that parents listening everywhere
really appreciate your advice and your expertise and your experience.
So right before we go, there's one last thing I
want to do. I ask all my guests to do this,
and it is to play the GCP Lightning Round. And
there's just four very quick questions. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Okay? Okay?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
First, give me one of your favorite poems or sayings.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Everybody came with you can't go with you. And stay
ready to be ready. Those are my two favorite says, stay.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Ready to be ready. I like both of them actually,
And so give me your favorite two children's books, and
they can be books that you read when you were
a kid, or that you and your daughters read together.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah, the all.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Times I read it, and then I read it to
them as green eggs and ham, I do not like.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I do not like the sam I am.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I will not even there, I will not eat them anywhere.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And then what's up, Jimma. I used to love that
little books, loved to read that book.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Oh okay, Shemma, all right, I will find that one.
I love green, Ada love green eggs in him and Gemma, okay,
So give me a moment that even if you could
have a do over with either one of your daughters
or maybe both of them together, if you could have it,
if you could do over that moment, you would.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Oh yeah, I know you didn't have to go on.
Ali was in the sixth grade.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
We were at our condo in Miami, and she was
in about the fifth or sixth grade, and she little
snippity whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
We got into it.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
And I never We were in the bathroom and I
beat her butt and it felt horrible afterwards, and I
apologize to her and told her I would never touch
her again.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
And I have not.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah that I've heard that a lot. You know, it's
so interesting. What do you remember what made you know
that it was not the right thing?
Speaker 2 (43:14):
It just didn't feel good.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Now, she was wrong, and she deserves some type of
acknowledgment of her behavior, right right. But and I remember
we were the bathroom and because it was an awkward
shape and the way.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I had to go after to try to get her
it was it just seemed like a lot of energy, you.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Know what I mean, right right, and trying to you know, yeah,
just afterwards, I was like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah, we won't be doing that anymore. And she's big.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
It's like she's not not that one just stapping on
her little lace at that point you got to like
lay some blows.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Weren't me, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah, she was always so little anyway, she was fatigue anyway,
you know.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yes, yeah, I apologize to her that I would never
touch you again, and I did not.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Okay, So give me the moment when you nailed it
as a mom that moment where you were like, yes,
I am, I am, I got it right.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
God has so many of those moments.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
I've had a lot of.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Those moments from you know, my kids killing it in.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Dance recitals, just being prepared for other events, but I
would say this wedding, honey, it was like yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Because by me and my daughter did not fight. Nobody fault.
The two families did, got along.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Well, and we gave her a beautiful wedding that we
let her and her fiance plan, and then the voice
in it, and everybody thought I was going to be
the takeover, and I said, no, I'm not doing that,
and I did not. Matter of fact, I hadn't let
everybody know at the reception because it was gorgeous and
they were trying to give me the credit.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I said, don't. This is the bride. This was her vision.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
In preparing to talk to you today online and looked
at pictures and not only is it absolutely beautiful, but
you can just feel in the expressions of the people
at the wedding the really good spirit. I mean, everybody
looks beautiful, they look so happy, and it looks it's
so genuine. So yeah, I would say that definitely. By
(45:18):
knowing when to speak up and when to sit down,
you definitely nailed it as a mom on that wedding. So, Vanessa,
those are great answers in a lightning round. I thank
you so much for being with us. Today. Really, thank you.
It's been so great.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I'm so enjoyed this and I think this is a
great topic especially. I want to say one thing, one
piece of advice. I want to say if somebody told
me when my kids were young that I all parents
need to know you never.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Judge somebody's children that are older than yours.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
That held on to that because we all say what
we're gonna do, and how we're gonna do it, and
what we would tolerate, and what.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Do we do boo boo, boo boom.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
I got all kinds of opinions, and too little Johnny
and Mary get to that age and start showing up.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
The little put right exactly No, that is exactly right.
That the keeping that.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
You spoiled them, and now they're whatever age and all
of a sudden, everything you said you wouldn't do, you're doing.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
So don't be judging other.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
People's kids that are older than yours because you don't
know what the heck you gonna do when yours gets
to that stage. That's some great advice and that was
given to me and I held on to that foram.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That is great advice, and thank you for sharing it
with us. That is great advice. Well, thanks again, Vanessa,
this was great. I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation
that you'll come back for more. Please subscribe, rate and
review where you find your podcasts, and tell your friends.
For more parenting info and advice, please check out the
Ground Control Parenting website at www. Groundcontrolparenting dot com. You
(46:53):
can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at ground
Control Parenting and on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis. Until
the next time, take care and thanks for listening.
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