March 29, 2023 • 37 mins
Carol dives into parenting LGBTQ children with producer and radio show host Angelique Francis and her son Sage. Angelique talks with Carol about her journey to support her LGBTQ children, including Sage, who came out in his teens. Angelique explains how she focused on her love for her children and released her original expectations of them. Her son Sage recalls his coming out story and reveals the challenges he and his peers face in this process of doing so. Angelique and Sage highlight the need to create safe and inclusive spaces for LGBTQ children and the unique challenges Black LGBTQ children face. This insightful and inspiring conversation offers valuable advice for parents to better understand, support and advocate for their children. Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, I'm
talking with producer and radio show host Angelique Francis and
her Son's Sage about how parents can best support and
(00:27):
advocate for their LGPTQIA plus children. As you'll hear, Angelique
has three kids, one of whom is gender non conforming
in another who's gay, and she's had a lot of
experience with supporting them as they live their truths. Angelie
talks with me about her journey as a parent, how
she had to reflect on who she was as a
person and a mom and move away from her original
(00:47):
expectations of her kids to understand and accept who they
really are. Her son's Sage talks about his journey to
come out to his friends and family and reveals some
of the challenges he and his tears face in the process.
We had such a deep and extensive conversation that I
decided to release it in two parts so you wouldn't
miss any of it. So here's part one and part
two is coming next week. I hope you'll enjoy this conversation.
(01:11):
I am so happy to have my dear friend, Angelique
Francis and her son, Sage Francis joined me today. Angelique
is president and artistic director of Beloved Entertainment. She has
over thirty years of experience in various aspects of entertainment, communications, coaching,
and empowerment. She's the creator and host of Living in
the sweet Spot, which is now a radio show that
(01:31):
features true stories of thriving, surviving, and growing as told
to her by unapologetically bold overcomers. She has three children,
Jay who's twenty nine, Ariana who's twenty eight, and Sage
who's here with us today who's twenty one. Now at Sage,
Sage Francis is a senior at Vanderbilt University, majoring in
cognitive sciences and minoring in computer science and gender and
(01:54):
Sexuality Studies. He has a passion for social justice and
game design. He's held to ship positions in social justice
clubs and affinity groups for queer students and students of color.
Welcome to Ground Control Parenting, Angelice and Sage, Oh thank
you for having us. We're excited to be here. Definitely great.
I'm so glad to have both of you here with
(02:14):
me today to talk about parenting with pride, how parents
can bus support and advocate for our LGBTQIA plus children.
I've had mother daughters on the show before, but it's
the first time I've had a mother son team, so
I'm excited about that. I'm ready to dive into our conversation.
So let's get started, Angelique. I want to start with you.
I want to start with getting a sense of how
(02:35):
you were parented. Tell me where you grew up, did
you have siblings, and tell me how did your parents
express their expectations for you when you were growing up. Wow,
that's a big question, Carol. My family is from the South,
from Georgia, but early on we came to Los Angeles.
So I was predominantly raised in Los Angeles from the
(02:57):
age of four, and my mother was an educator and
my father was an entrepreneur, businessman, and so we came
though from a very Christian upbringing. My grandfather was a
very well known pastor in Savannah, Georgia, pastor three churches simultaneously,
you know, one in the city, two or three satellites
(03:18):
in the country, you know. And so he was very
well known and pastor of that church for fifty years.
And so my entire family has come out of you know,
we're all kind of pks, if you will. And I
bring that up because obviously this conversation is a conversation
that we didn't really talk a lot about. Right. We
talked about education, right, we talked about loving God, we
(03:41):
talked about community, but we didn't talk about gender and sexuality.
Not much. Yeah, and just to back up p k
is preachers kids, Yes, it is right right those of
us who know us, no, no, that's but but you know,
even early on and I did not. Even though I
(04:02):
went to Catholic schools and all girls schools, I did
not really conform to those standards. So even as a child,
I was, wait a minute, why do I have to
go to confession? Why can't I tell God my sins?
I got a relationship with him. I could just talk
to him every day, right, So I did not conform
early on, So it's no wonder that I turned out
(04:24):
to be who I turned out to be. Here, So
you said your parents talk with you about education, and oh,
were you. Did you have siblings? Were you did? I
have one brother who's older, six years older. And did
you grow up feeling as if you had to have
a certain type of education, act a certain way. I mean,
(04:44):
if you were preacher's kids, you probably were. They would
have wanted you to act a certain way. Is that fair? Well,
that's totally fair. My father said you can't date till
you're twenty one. But you know, that didn't happen, That
didn't that didn't fly for long. You know, my mom
was a principle of schools my entire upbringing, and so
(05:06):
she was very busy, to be honest. She was always
in a school, saving some child, or saving some family,
or teaching teacher how to be a better teacher. Right,
So it was little hands off, and so I got
to do it kind of my way. Outside of getting
a degree and choosing something that you were going to
do in your life that was going to make a difference.
(05:27):
Those sort of the things that I heard most. It's interesting,
and you've already said that coming up in a family
that was so steeped in religion, but one that you
questioned from early days, not the religion part, but sort
of all the rules and regulations. You already, when you
were younger, had a perspective of Okay, I know that
(05:48):
things are quote supposed to be this way, but but
why and maybe they don't have to be this way?
So this explains I want to quote you to you.
I want to share a quote that I found, a
really great quote about children and expectations that you gave
in your interview with Cookie Johnson, wife of Magic and
mother of EJ. And you were talking with her about
(06:09):
EJ and you said, our children, in particular, we always
want them to be what we want them to be.
We want to give them all the opportunities, but we
actually want them to fit into this little neat box
and we want to decide what they want to be,
how they should be, what their interest should be. We
do that as parents. Then you went on to say
it's hard for us as parents to put ourselves aside
(06:29):
and not focus on creating little mini needs that we
think are going to be just like us. And when
I heard that, that's so resonated, and I spent a
lot of time in my podcast talking with parents about
the need to put ourselves aside and that. But I'm
laughing because one that you did that kind of research.
It too that that actually does sound just like me,
doesn't it, say, just shaking his head, Yes, yes, you know,
(06:56):
it really does. I thought that it was a great
way into this common versation because I want to talk
to about how your lived experience of informed this really
great quote. So your eldest child, Jay is non binary,
and they're a data scientist, engineer, and then to it
for trans youth and an advocate for gender equality and
gender equity for trans athletes. And your youngest child, say,
(07:16):
who's with us today? As gay and a champion of
queer rights. So they are both really living their truths
and advocating for others to do so as well. So
tell me, Angelie, did you have to pivot away yourself
from any preconceived notions? I mean, you were able to
talk about this understanding that this is what you had
to do, But did you personally have to do this?
(07:38):
Did I have to pivot or did I have to
take a one eighty total truly and fall into a
whole other world that I had not prepared myself. That
would be the truth, you know, I do. I have
a lot of empathy for people in need. Okay, So
that was already there, but I didn't know. I was
(08:00):
talking to Sage earlier today about it. I did not
realize what my children were going through as young people.
I had no As much as I knew it was
meeting their needs. Where they're in the best schools, they're
doing all the sports, all the activities. So you're thinking,
we're thinking that we're doing all that we can do.
But I didn't understand why my oldest child in high
(08:20):
school was so depressing, was experiencing social anxiety. I didn't
not understand. And you know, thinking, Okay, you've got two
parents who love you, who adore you, who try to
give you all that you can. We love it on.
You've got great siblings. And I don't think I ever
said this to my oldest, but I was thinking, what
could you have to be depressed about? You know, And
(08:42):
my kids actually had a nonprofit so it's called Kids Powered,
So they were into empowering, and so I just thought
it was simple. I thought it was a simple formula
two plus two goals four. You know, the equation is
different and what's made up in that is so much
more than what I thought as a parent. And so
I have with Sage's help, with Jay's help, and with
(09:06):
Ariama's help, have had to learn some new ways of thinking,
some new ways of living and loving. And as compassionate
as I thought I was, I was still clueless. So
it's been a learning curve. So, Sage, I want to
bring you into this conversation and ask you how did
you teach your mom? Were you able to comfortably just
(09:29):
talk to your family about your sexuality or tell me
how how did you teach them? Well, first, I think
my mom would agree that even as a child, I
was very opinionated, and I think that just kind of
kept going and I wasn't very afraid over the course
of high schools where it started to speak my mind
(09:51):
and speak for others that don't necessarily have the voice themselves.
I didn't realize that I was gay until sophomore year school,
I believe, which was interesting because I always knew there
was something different, but I'd never felt an attraction to anyone,
not men even yet, So for me, it was much
(10:13):
more of other people, like in school, starting in elementary school,
calling me gay and in a pejorative way. So I
do remember going back from school crying to my mom
and that was very pivotal for me because it both
told me that people do see gay is a bad
thing and that it's not necessarily a bad thing. Like
(10:37):
it was this weird dual purpose because I could tell
they were being malicious, they were being mean, and these
aren't the people that are deciding what's morally right in
that moment. But then later on when it goes to
coming out, I think that my parents have always been
supportive more or less, but that there were a lot
of microaggressions and that kind of like what my mom
(10:58):
was saying when it actually came to me and my
oldest sibling coming out, like when it came to the
queer kids being my parents kids, it was a little different.
So right after I realized, actually that same night, I
went downstairs to my mom the kitchen and I told
her I might be gay. I might be by I'm
not sure. And the first thing she did was give
(11:19):
me a hug. But then second thing she did was
basically cast out because how could I know. I definitely
hadn't kissed the boy yet, I hadn't kissed the girl,
and because it was so new for me, it was
literally that night I went back into the closet, like
to myself too, and that was about the end of
sophomore year. I think you about what fifteen or so
(11:41):
or so or so, fifteen sixteen, something like that. And
it wasn't until the summer where I came out to
a friend that I didn't even know that well, that
I was actually able to fully come out to myself.
And from there it was I wasn't hiding it at all.
I didn't care if anyone knew. I posted things on Instagram,
(12:02):
reposted stuff about sexuality, gender, and at that point, I'd
already been involved in multiple social justice initiatives and clubs
at my high school. So it's a pretty surprisingly simple
transition for me after I got off that first time. Now,
since then, there's still been like micro aggressions and stuff
(12:23):
like that that I've had to deal with, but that's
very much so normal, And I think that if you
look over the past five or six years, that there
has been a great change in my parents and my
family and how they approach these things, and luckily in
the spaces I've been there's also just been a general
good change. At least before I came to Nashville for school,
(12:48):
which a little different than New York. But yeah, no,
I'm definitely going to get to talk to you about that.
But let me ask you, so you kind of went
back in and then did you have another kind of
to your mom? I mean, how did you let them
know that No, you were pretty clear on it as
opposed to not that sure or you were sure, but
(13:08):
casting some kind of transition, right, Yeah, yeah, Well I
think that first, something that I've heard other people relate
to is that it's easier sometimes to come out to
someone that like, you know but you don't know like that. Well,
so I came out to a friend that was kind
of a newer friend that way. It wasn't coming out
to my parents where there could be big backlash. Year
(13:30):
wasn't coming out to my best friend even that like
I might have been scared I would lose if I
came out. So I think just doing that and having
a positive response really meant a lot for me. And
then in terms of coming out again to my family,
I don't think I did so in a very like
this is this way. I think I just kind of
(13:52):
like started living my life and I did eventually tell
my mom, But I know for me, it wasn't the
same like fear. It was the same I don't know
worry that I had before because I had the support
of my friends, I had the support at school, and
I knew she would love me either way. But now
I knew people that like immediately took my coming out
(14:14):
as like fact, as you know, we love you, we
respect you, you are in fact gay if that's you
know how you feel, and it is. So it wasn't
more until we probably just had a conversation about it
one day you might know better, mom, and then after that.
It wasn't until I was in a therapy session with
(14:38):
my mom my sister, and during high school I had
also been dealing with anxiety and later depression, so that's
one thing we were talking about, and my mom pointed
out that part of this might be caused by me
coming out in the new pressures of that. But of
course my sister didn't know yet, so my mom accidentally
(15:01):
added me to my sister during the therapy session. And
one reason I bring that up is because my sister
and I have always been close, like she's someone I
will definitely confide in. And my mom was really surprised
because she assumed my sister knew but it was the
same thing where if my sister didn't accept me, then
that would have been crushing. So yeah, let me let
(15:25):
me jump in. I do remember all of this, You
know that we all have different perspectives of how things happened,
and and I do recall, and I think that it's
something that many parents would say to a child who
they know have not been sexual right, And you're like, well,
how do you know you haven't? You know, you're not
really You're still young, you don't really know. And I
(15:46):
want to point out to make sure that Sage and
I talk about the difference between gender and sexuality, because
that is the biggest I think confusion for our generation, Carol,
of my difference in Sage is going to be so great.
It to explained me that I knew Sage was a
little different than some of the other boys, Like he
wasn't on the school bus in seventh grade, m you know,
(16:09):
trying to lift up a girl's skirt. He just wasn't
doing that right. And so the boys even knew that
he was not going to participate in disrespecting girls in
any way. So Sage has always been an advocate for himself,
which excuse me for a second, is a good thing.
The sexuality. Sexuality, that's a good thing, but you knowing
(16:29):
that's a really good thing. But I remember when Sage
was trying to get, you know, some flak from some
of the kids in middle school. Sage actually went on
the Master's school website and literally said, Mom, I want
to go to school here. I scheduled a tour. And
I was like, what if anything, you're gonna go where
(16:50):
your brother and sister go. But obviously we've made another
choice because Sage has always been an advocate for himself.
So what is amazing about him is that not only
wasn't an advocate, but in high school he was the
president of a diversity club and he invited his dad
and me to school to you know, because he said
he was going to participate. So we're so mean, Oh,
(17:12):
he's gonna introduce the guest speaker. He's going to you
know in a start and maybe close the event. I'm
just proud. I'm just going to go support my child.
You know whatever, Sage were you senior or junior. I
believe that was started senior year. Okay, so it was
the beginning of senior year. So Sage, it just turned seventeen,
and we sit there. James comes, you know, from work
(17:33):
or whatever. He runs in the room, sits down. We're
just ready to applaud, and you know, all of a
sudden we realized that Sage wasn't just introducing the topic
for the night, which is the LGBTQ, and you know,
having awareness around that. I thought we were going for
like a Martin Luther King or Malcolm X diversity. I
didn't know we were going for LGBTQ. It didn't matter
(17:55):
whatever he was doing. I was coming right. And then
he wasn't just introducing the speakers. He was the speaker.
So James and I look to each other and we
were just like, wait, what is going on right now?
Like what is happening? Because not only was he teaching
(18:16):
and inviting people to ask questions and to sort of
rethink their normal way of thinking, he was pointing out microaggressions.
I was blown away by my own child, both as
an advocate for others, but also understanding who he was.
And then he said, after all of that, says, you
may not remember this. He said this after like a
(18:38):
two hour workshop and parents and teachers, it was over
one hundred people there it was amazing. And then he said,
and I know we've told you all this, We've explained
all the terms, we've explained all the different categories, but
if they change in two weeks, just love your child
if they adjusted and want to be called something else
or identified differently. And I thought, oh my god, this
(18:59):
is just the beginning. Like I had hard time wrapping
my mind around all of it. And then that was
even before the LGBTQ movement really started to assign pronounce
that was right around that time on a more wide
scale level. And then when Jay decided Jay was they
wanted us to use to pronounce them a day, that
(19:20):
was a whole other journey. So we have spent a
lot of time in family therapy so we can both
understand what our kids need, where we messed up, where
we got it right, and to often ask for patience
and grace to get it right. And I think that
that's been the hardest thing for me is knowing, you know,
(19:41):
I'm the one that's often come and affirmed my children,
and all of a sudden, I'm using a pronoun that
makes them feel unloved and unrespected and unheard and unseen.
That's that was heartbreaking for me. Will be right back
after these messages. Welcome back to the show. Yeah, Oh,
there's so much that I want to from what you
were talking about. The first little quick thing that I
(20:04):
will do is, I'm so happy to hear both of
you talking about therapy because I am a huge fan, advocate, proponent,
supporter of family seeking therapy for whatever they need to
and I know in the black community there has been
I hope it's less now, but there have been some
reluctance to engage in that kind of practice, and so
(20:24):
every opportunity that I can, and thankfully on this podcast,
I talked to a lot of people who have had
therapy appreciate therapy, so I'm very glad to hear that.
It doesn't It means that you're just taking the time
to try to understand yourself and your family better. It
doesn't mean anything more than that. So just limit a
little plug for that. But I want to roll all
(20:45):
the way back. There's so many you guys have really
hit on all the topics I want to talk about,
But Sage, I want to swing to you for just
a second and roll back to we've just heard your
mom's perception of this event being kind of a light
bulb going off, kind of a new understanding. Did you
know that did you have a sense of that when
(21:06):
you were or were you just sort of in the
mode of I am who I am, and I guess
everybody should come and hear this. So definitely towards the
end of high school, this is where it was. It
was like kind of my thing to be like in
these clubs, like I was very much so involved. It
was my life. I would stay really late at school,
going from like Diversity Ambassadors, but then doing my own
(21:28):
clubs with the intersectional feminist group, the Queer Affinity group,
people of color affinity group, Like this was my life
and still is in some ways just different because I'm
in university obviously, so for me, I don't know that
I expected as much surprise. Almost the point of the
event actually was to help parents and teachers learn because
(21:53):
we had realized recently that there were just so many
questions and we wanted to support those with questions, not
like shame them, not be like why don't you know this,
but actually give an opportunity to use this information to
help students, to help their children, and you know, just
to live a better life, have better relationships things like that.
(22:15):
So I don't know that I was expecting as big
of a response as I as I did, But my
mom has been very much, so supportive of this one night.
I think it really did change her viewpoint on a
few things, and that's really all we could ask for.
It was with two other classmates in front of mine,
(22:39):
and we or three of the only like out people
at my school, specifically me and one of the guys.
There were not a lot of gay men out in
my high school. So part of it is minorities and
oppress groups shouldn't necessarily have to inform other people, Like
I don't think that it's on black people to inform
(23:02):
white people, you know, because that's an emotional labor thing.
But also that's why it's so important when you do
have those people willing to put that energy out there,
that you do listen. And that's why I was so
happy with that event, because the three of us that
were working on it, we were working on it, and
it's not that simple. One of them wasn't out to
(23:22):
their parents yet. It was a stressful job to do that,
and that's on top of school and stuff like that,
and you're talking to adults. We are like fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen seventeen, like between those ages, so I don't know.
It was rewarding experience to see people actually take the
information to engage with the workshops. The most interesting part
(23:43):
was actually the Q and A at the end, and
that's really what showed like people were listening and people
were trying to actively learn. I mean literally, Sage had
a line of parents and instructors waiting to speak with
him after and to get his email so they can
ask other questions along the line. So it was it
was a moment of I was so proud to know
(24:03):
that my child wasn't just an advocate for themselves, but
that they were advocate for others. And what I realized,
and again this goes to your audience, Carol, I realized
that Stage had done research. Okay, it wasn't just a
feeling that Sage had. Because this is an age of
information and on you know, you can find anything you
(24:24):
want on the internet. He understood way more than I
could have ever taught him, or even he could have
learned just on an instructional level in a class, you
know whatever, a gender studies class. Sage had such an
understanding because he spent hours and hours and hours of
educating himself, so I thought the least I can do.
(24:45):
It's been hours and hours trying to figure this out,
trying to go to therapy, trying to understand how to
be a better ally and better advocate. And you know,
it's been a little spicy, you know, with the whole
church thing, because even relationship with the church has changed,
both because of the Black Lives Matter, but also as
a result of this, because my Bible in my teaching,
(25:09):
was that God said love one another as yourself and
to love God, and so those were the only two
commandments in the church that should matter. So oftentimes when
I talk to Christian groups, I say that and then
what else can you say? After that? There is really
no debates, And so you know, I think I am
(25:30):
still growing, still evolving. Yeah, I've heard from gay friends
who had a very strong relationship with the church that
they have had to rethink it. And there's been a
spectrum of people who have had to walk away, and
I mean who have been devastated by that loss in
their life because they feel as you do, but the
structure of it, they couldn't find a home that made
(25:51):
them feel good, and then others who have found church
homes where they are understood and their love. So yeah,
that is a journey that I know can be tough
to walk. Now, I so appreciate the two of you
coming on and talking to me about this, since, Sage,
since I understand you've already you have been in this
situation many times. That is answering questions for people. So
(26:12):
I hope you won't mind that throughout this podcast, I'll
be asking you these questions that are probably eye rolling
to most people, but you've You've got an audience of
people who includes people who aren't as familiar with so
much terminology, and so I do appreciate from that story
that you stand ready to be the patient instructor. So
I want to ask both of you the same kind
(26:33):
of question, and Sage, I think i'll start with you.
So you've described a circumstance where, apart from the first
little blip on the coming out scale in the sense
that you sort of came out and then went back in,
but ultimately when you came out fully and you felt
very confident in that your family embraced you, you went
(26:54):
I'm sure that it was not a bumpless road. But
you were very comforted by the fact that you didn't well,
I'm making you resumption, but you didn't lose good friends,
You didn't lose the things that you were the most
afraid of didn't happen. I mean, I'm is that a
fair statement or fair based on what I told you?
But I definitely did lose friendships. Some of my oldest friends.
(27:19):
We kind of grew apart, I would say, I guess
conveniently when I came out, some people that I play
video games with like stopped talking to me or thought
responding to me. But in terms of my friends at school,
that wasn't really something I experienced as much, especially because
I was able to They weren't really out at the time,
(27:41):
but I was able to gravitate towards a queer friend group,
at least partly, And I think you just kind of
find your people that way. And it's sad because you know,
no one wants to lose some of their best friends.
But at the end, something that I will always find
really important, and I think a lot of queer people do,
(28:01):
is found family. I love my family, but also found
family is really important because you don't choose your family.
You choose your found family, and your family isn't always
going to respect you, love you for who you are,
even though they should. So you can find the people
that do, and you can find people that relate. You
could find people that don't relate, but our great allies
(28:24):
and will listen and uplift you. So yeah, it definitely
wasn't bumbless. And I think even with my family there
were strains in our relationship with some more than others.
But I feel extremely lucky with my coming out. Extremely
I did not like at one end of the spectrum
(28:44):
get kicked out by my parents, are disowned. But I
also wasn't like bullied NonStop in high school or and
I was able to actually be very much so proud
and out at my school, like giving talks on this
type of stuff when other places, other schools wouldn't be
as accepting or give you that time or space. And
(29:08):
I know that you want to come in here, but
I just have one more question for sage. What would
you say to your friends or to anyone how would
you counsel people who either are afraid that they won't
have the experience that you had or are having a
bad experience that their their fears were realized. I mean,
what do you say to people that where it's not
so easy? Is that part of the found family concept?
(29:32):
It definitely is, and honestly, on some level, it's a
hard question when I'm glad you asked, But it's a
hard question because one obviously there isn't like a great
answer um and it really just depends on your environment.
I will say this with some hesitants, but everyone should
(29:53):
be able to come out if they if they want
not everyone needs to ever, but everyone should be able
to come out. They should be able to express themselves.
They should be able to live their lives in safety.
But there are times where it's like you have to
weigh the safety if you live in an environment, in
a family or something like that where coming out might
cause you harm physical, mental, emotional, you have to weigh
(30:14):
that against you know, if keeping your true self is
also hurting you in the same or more. Yeah, so
it's it's always a series of political negotiations, is how
I would describe it. But in terms of finding those communities,
I think that online is a great way to do that.
(30:36):
It's hard because especially if you're young, be careful going online,
especially I don't know with people that you don't know,
but at the same time, things from Twitter to Instagram,
to Tumblr to like fandoms online, I think that that's
one place you could definitely find your family. Wow, that's great.
That was so well said, Angelique. Let me just ask
(30:57):
you this just to follow up on that. Just tragic
to hear that someone could actually say I can't tell
my parents because of the fear of the reaction, Angelie.
That sort of that dovetails into the question for families
that aren't for a myriad of reasons, for whatever reason,
aren't as easily able to just dive into the love
(31:20):
they have for their child, and they're unable to be
as accepting as we would all want them to be.
I mean, what would you say to people to sort
of help them let go of the expectations and what
should they be sure to do or not to do
to make sure their child is not negatively impacted? One.
You just got a level and that's number that's number one.
If you love your child, you know I have to
(31:42):
bring up and what I was going to bring forward
was just the reality of the depression, in the anxiety
and the mental health issues that arise because our children
don't feel seen and heard and respected and and that
they can be their authentic self. Right and in our
(32:04):
particular family, you know, one of my kids had some
social anxiety, one that deals with depression. And it's let
me just give you a statistic because this is what
you have. All I can tell you is you have
to love and accept them. But when you look at
some of these statistics, like forty five of LGBTQ youth
considers suicide in the last year, that's current, more than
(32:28):
half of non binary kids have considered it, and one
out of five non binary children have attempted suicide in
the last two years. So any loving parent, any caring parent,
(32:48):
I think we all you know that's our greatest fears, right,
that something could harm our child or self harmer. You
know that there our child would not live a healthy, wonderful,
loving life. When you look at seventy three percent of
LGBTQ youth experience either depression, anxiety or both. Seventy three percent.
(33:10):
How about this forty percent of LGBTQ youth within the
juvenile detention system, forty percent of them are LGBTQ identify.
That means they're being abused, they're getting into fights there,
they're in a situations that no loving parent wants their
child to be at. LGBTQ youth are more likely to
(33:33):
become homeless because they're running away from home, or their
parents are putting them out, or they don't feel safe
in the home. And then now about one more, one
third of the LGBTQ youth that were polled and asked
to participate in this one third of them said they
had to explain to their doctors and their therapists about
(33:56):
what it meant to be LGBTQ. Huh, So the parents
don't know, the therapists don't know, and the positions don't know. Wow,
this makes me just go right back to your quote
that I opened with about how parents have to put
ourselves aside and not think about ourselves, how we are
reacting to think about our children. All those statistics, those
(34:19):
heartbreaking statistics, every one of them. If you could get
through to a parent who's having trouble coping with the
different life that their child is presenting to them than
the one they imagine, which is really all that it is.
It's sort of just it's an adjustment of belief, right,
It's an adjustment to thinking about things differently, and I
follow going to be honest, there's also there can be
fear involved in it as well for your child, because
(34:42):
we know other statistics about you know, bullying and being targeted,
and so there's some fear in there. But it also
is just sort of you know, we all kind of
gravitate to what we know, I mean, parenting wise or
life wise, and so if there's something that our child
wants to do that we're not familiar with, there's there
can be reluctance. But when you hear those statistics, you
just have to put yourself aside. And that is That's
(35:03):
one I'm really glad that you guys are on today
because that's one of the things I talk about all
the time in this podcast, that we really have to
look at our children as not sort of there from us,
but they're not. They are their own persons, their own
own people. And the other part of this, though is
I think both of you had said this, but acually
the patience and the grace, because I mean, this isn't
(35:24):
easy for anyone sage. It couldn't have been easy just
sort of figuring out that you knew the life that
you knew was going to be a life that was
going to have to speak up for yourself a lot more,
perhaps than you might have been inclined to generally, and
from a parenting perspective, you're sort of like, Okay, I
have to pivot. Pivoting isn't always easy. I hope you've
(35:47):
enjoyed part one of our two part conversation with Angelique
and Sage Francis. It continues next week when we'll talk
about the distinction between gender and sexuality, have a conversation
around pronoun choice, a topic that can get a little
stressful for some of us, and more. Here's a little
taste of what's coming next week. I realize if I
don't know someone now, I'm hesitant to assign a pronoun
(36:09):
to them because I don't know what pronoun they would want.
So I get that, But it's the opposite of the
patience and the grace, the sort of impatience and intolerance
that one can be met with if you don't get
on board as quickly as you need to. And I
think that part of the angry response to pronouns, though
you may have experienced it yourself, is kind of overblown
(36:33):
and creates like a picture of a blue hair dyed
liberal that's angry if anyone doesn't assume the right pronouns, like,
I don't think that really is representative of the real world.
But I will say a couple things about it, because
this is really beyond a pronoun or a name calling
or a category. And why does everybody have to fit
(36:54):
in some neat box so that all of us feel comfortable,
so we can walk in a room and say, oh,
we're in that box. Stre in that box. That's not life,
that's not who we are, that's not humane. Even so,
please join us. As always, I'd love for you to
please subscribe, rate, and review Groundcltrol Parenting with Carol Sutton
Lewis wherever you find your podcasts and tell your friends.
(37:15):
For more parenting info and advice, please check out the
Groundcotrol Parenting blog at groundctrol parenting dot com. You can
also find us on Instagram and Facebook at groundcltrol Parenting
and on LinkedIn. Unto Carol Sutton Lewis, the Groundcatrol Parenting
with Carol Sutton Lewis podcast is a part of the
Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartMedia until the
next time, take care and thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, I'm
talking with producer and radio show host Angelique Francis and
her Son's Sage about how parents can best support and
(00:27):
advocate for their LGPTQIA plus children. As you'll hear, Angelique
has three kids, one of whom is gender non conforming
in another who's gay, and she's had a lot of
experience with supporting them as they live their truths. Angelie
talks with me about her journey as a parent, how
she had to reflect on who she was as a
person and a mom and move away from her original
(00:47):
expectations of her kids to understand and accept who they
really are. Her son's Sage talks about his journey to
come out to his friends and family and reveals some
of the challenges he and his tears face in the process.
We had such a deep and extensive conversation that I
decided to release it in two parts so you wouldn't
miss any of it. So here's part one and part
two is coming next week. I hope you'll enjoy this conversation.
(01:11):
I am so happy to have my dear friend, Angelique
Francis and her son, Sage Francis joined me today. Angelique
is president and artistic director of Beloved Entertainment. She has
over thirty years of experience in various aspects of entertainment, communications, coaching,
and empowerment. She's the creator and host of Living in
the sweet Spot, which is now a radio show that
(01:31):
features true stories of thriving, surviving, and growing as told
to her by unapologetically bold overcomers. She has three children,
Jay who's twenty nine, Ariana who's twenty eight, and Sage
who's here with us today who's twenty one. Now at Sage,
Sage Francis is a senior at Vanderbilt University, majoring in
cognitive sciences and minoring in computer science and gender and
(01:54):
Sexuality Studies. He has a passion for social justice and
game design. He's held to ship positions in social justice
clubs and affinity groups for queer students and students of color.
Welcome to Ground Control Parenting, Angelice and Sage, Oh thank
you for having us. We're excited to be here. Definitely great.
I'm so glad to have both of you here with
(02:14):
me today to talk about parenting with pride, how parents
can bus support and advocate for our LGBTQIA plus children.
I've had mother daughters on the show before, but it's
the first time I've had a mother son team, so
I'm excited about that. I'm ready to dive into our conversation.
So let's get started, Angelique. I want to start with you.
I want to start with getting a sense of how
(02:35):
you were parented. Tell me where you grew up, did
you have siblings, and tell me how did your parents
express their expectations for you when you were growing up. Wow,
that's a big question, Carol. My family is from the South,
from Georgia, but early on we came to Los Angeles.
So I was predominantly raised in Los Angeles from the
(02:57):
age of four, and my mother was an educator and
my father was an entrepreneur, businessman, and so we came
though from a very Christian upbringing. My grandfather was a
very well known pastor in Savannah, Georgia, pastor three churches simultaneously,
you know, one in the city, two or three satellites
(03:18):
in the country, you know. And so he was very
well known and pastor of that church for fifty years.
And so my entire family has come out of you know,
we're all kind of pks, if you will. And I
bring that up because obviously this conversation is a conversation
that we didn't really talk a lot about. Right. We
talked about education, right, we talked about loving God, we
(03:41):
talked about community, but we didn't talk about gender and sexuality.
Not much. Yeah, and just to back up p k
is preachers kids, Yes, it is right right those of
us who know us, no, no, that's but but you know,
even early on and I did not. Even though I
(04:02):
went to Catholic schools and all girls schools, I did
not really conform to those standards. So even as a child,
I was, wait a minute, why do I have to
go to confession? Why can't I tell God my sins?
I got a relationship with him. I could just talk
to him every day, right, So I did not conform
early on, So it's no wonder that I turned out
(04:24):
to be who I turned out to be. Here, So
you said your parents talk with you about education, and oh,
were you. Did you have siblings? Were you did? I
have one brother who's older, six years older. And did
you grow up feeling as if you had to have
a certain type of education, act a certain way. I mean,
(04:44):
if you were preacher's kids, you probably were. They would
have wanted you to act a certain way. Is that fair? Well,
that's totally fair. My father said you can't date till
you're twenty one. But you know, that didn't happen, That
didn't that didn't fly for long. You know, my mom
was a principle of schools my entire upbringing, and so
(05:06):
she was very busy, to be honest. She was always
in a school, saving some child, or saving some family,
or teaching teacher how to be a better teacher. Right,
So it was little hands off, and so I got
to do it kind of my way. Outside of getting
a degree and choosing something that you were going to
do in your life that was going to make a difference.
(05:27):
Those sort of the things that I heard most. It's interesting,
and you've already said that coming up in a family
that was so steeped in religion, but one that you
questioned from early days, not the religion part, but sort
of all the rules and regulations. You already, when you
were younger, had a perspective of Okay, I know that
(05:48):
things are quote supposed to be this way, but but
why and maybe they don't have to be this way?
So this explains I want to quote you to you.
I want to share a quote that I found, a
really great quote about children and expectations that you gave
in your interview with Cookie Johnson, wife of Magic and
mother of EJ. And you were talking with her about
(06:09):
EJ and you said, our children, in particular, we always
want them to be what we want them to be.
We want to give them all the opportunities, but we
actually want them to fit into this little neat box
and we want to decide what they want to be,
how they should be, what their interest should be. We
do that as parents. Then you went on to say
it's hard for us as parents to put ourselves aside
(06:29):
and not focus on creating little mini needs that we
think are going to be just like us. And when
I heard that, that's so resonated, and I spent a
lot of time in my podcast talking with parents about
the need to put ourselves aside and that. But I'm
laughing because one that you did that kind of research.
It too that that actually does sound just like me,
doesn't it, say, just shaking his head, Yes, yes, you know,
(06:56):
it really does. I thought that it was a great
way into this common versation because I want to talk
to about how your lived experience of informed this really
great quote. So your eldest child, Jay is non binary,
and they're a data scientist, engineer, and then to it
for trans youth and an advocate for gender equality and
gender equity for trans athletes. And your youngest child, say,
(07:16):
who's with us today? As gay and a champion of
queer rights. So they are both really living their truths
and advocating for others to do so as well. So
tell me, Angelie, did you have to pivot away yourself
from any preconceived notions? I mean, you were able to
talk about this understanding that this is what you had
to do, But did you personally have to do this?
(07:38):
Did I have to pivot or did I have to
take a one eighty total truly and fall into a
whole other world that I had not prepared myself. That
would be the truth, you know, I do. I have
a lot of empathy for people in need. Okay, So
that was already there, but I didn't know. I was
(08:00):
talking to Sage earlier today about it. I did not
realize what my children were going through as young people.
I had no As much as I knew it was
meeting their needs. Where they're in the best schools, they're
doing all the sports, all the activities. So you're thinking,
we're thinking that we're doing all that we can do.
But I didn't understand why my oldest child in high
(08:20):
school was so depressing, was experiencing social anxiety. I didn't
not understand. And you know, thinking, Okay, you've got two
parents who love you, who adore you, who try to
give you all that you can. We love it on.
You've got great siblings. And I don't think I ever
said this to my oldest, but I was thinking, what
could you have to be depressed about? You know, And
(08:42):
my kids actually had a nonprofit so it's called Kids Powered,
So they were into empowering, and so I just thought
it was simple. I thought it was a simple formula
two plus two goals four. You know, the equation is
different and what's made up in that is so much
more than what I thought as a parent. And so
I have with Sage's help, with Jay's help, and with
(09:06):
Ariama's help, have had to learn some new ways of thinking,
some new ways of living and loving. And as compassionate
as I thought I was, I was still clueless. So
it's been a learning curve. So, Sage, I want to
bring you into this conversation and ask you how did
you teach your mom? Were you able to comfortably just
(09:29):
talk to your family about your sexuality or tell me
how how did you teach them? Well, first, I think
my mom would agree that even as a child, I
was very opinionated, and I think that just kind of
kept going and I wasn't very afraid over the course
of high schools where it started to speak my mind
(09:51):
and speak for others that don't necessarily have the voice themselves.
I didn't realize that I was gay until sophomore year school,
I believe, which was interesting because I always knew there
was something different, but I'd never felt an attraction to anyone,
not men even yet, So for me, it was much
(10:13):
more of other people, like in school, starting in elementary school,
calling me gay and in a pejorative way. So I
do remember going back from school crying to my mom
and that was very pivotal for me because it both
told me that people do see gay is a bad
thing and that it's not necessarily a bad thing. Like
(10:37):
it was this weird dual purpose because I could tell
they were being malicious, they were being mean, and these
aren't the people that are deciding what's morally right in
that moment. But then later on when it goes to
coming out, I think that my parents have always been
supportive more or less, but that there were a lot
of microaggressions and that kind of like what my mom
(10:58):
was saying when it actually came to me and my
oldest sibling coming out, like when it came to the
queer kids being my parents kids, it was a little different.
So right after I realized, actually that same night, I
went downstairs to my mom the kitchen and I told
her I might be gay. I might be by I'm
not sure. And the first thing she did was give
(11:19):
me a hug. But then second thing she did was
basically cast out because how could I know. I definitely
hadn't kissed the boy yet, I hadn't kissed the girl,
and because it was so new for me, it was
literally that night I went back into the closet, like
to myself too, and that was about the end of
sophomore year. I think you about what fifteen or so
(11:41):
or so or so, fifteen sixteen, something like that. And
it wasn't until the summer where I came out to
a friend that I didn't even know that well, that
I was actually able to fully come out to myself.
And from there it was I wasn't hiding it at all.
I didn't care if anyone knew. I posted things on Instagram,
(12:02):
reposted stuff about sexuality, gender, and at that point, I'd
already been involved in multiple social justice initiatives and clubs
at my high school. So it's a pretty surprisingly simple
transition for me after I got off that first time. Now,
since then, there's still been like micro aggressions and stuff
(12:23):
like that that I've had to deal with, but that's
very much so normal, And I think that if you
look over the past five or six years, that there
has been a great change in my parents and my
family and how they approach these things, and luckily in
the spaces I've been there's also just been a general
good change. At least before I came to Nashville for school,
(12:48):
which a little different than New York. But yeah, no,
I'm definitely going to get to talk to you about that.
But let me ask you, so you kind of went
back in and then did you have another kind of
to your mom? I mean, how did you let them
know that No, you were pretty clear on it as
opposed to not that sure or you were sure, but
(13:08):
casting some kind of transition, right, Yeah, yeah, Well I
think that first, something that I've heard other people relate
to is that it's easier sometimes to come out to
someone that like, you know but you don't know like that. Well,
so I came out to a friend that was kind
of a newer friend that way. It wasn't coming out
to my parents where there could be big backlash. Year
(13:30):
wasn't coming out to my best friend even that like
I might have been scared I would lose if I
came out. So I think just doing that and having
a positive response really meant a lot for me. And
then in terms of coming out again to my family,
I don't think I did so in a very like
this is this way. I think I just kind of
(13:52):
like started living my life and I did eventually tell
my mom, But I know for me, it wasn't the
same like fear. It was the same I don't know
worry that I had before because I had the support
of my friends, I had the support at school, and
I knew she would love me either way. But now
I knew people that like immediately took my coming out
(14:14):
as like fact, as you know, we love you, we
respect you, you are in fact gay if that's you
know how you feel, and it is. So it wasn't
more until we probably just had a conversation about it
one day you might know better, mom, and then after that.
It wasn't until I was in a therapy session with
(14:38):
my mom my sister, and during high school I had
also been dealing with anxiety and later depression, so that's
one thing we were talking about, and my mom pointed
out that part of this might be caused by me
coming out in the new pressures of that. But of
course my sister didn't know yet, so my mom accidentally
(15:01):
added me to my sister during the therapy session. And
one reason I bring that up is because my sister
and I have always been close, like she's someone I
will definitely confide in. And my mom was really surprised
because she assumed my sister knew but it was the
same thing where if my sister didn't accept me, then
that would have been crushing. So yeah, let me let
(15:25):
me jump in. I do remember all of this, You
know that we all have different perspectives of how things happened,
and and I do recall, and I think that it's
something that many parents would say to a child who
they know have not been sexual right, And you're like, well,
how do you know you haven't? You know, you're not
really You're still young, you don't really know. And I
(15:46):
want to point out to make sure that Sage and
I talk about the difference between gender and sexuality, because
that is the biggest I think confusion for our generation, Carol,
of my difference in Sage is going to be so great.
It to explained me that I knew Sage was a
little different than some of the other boys, Like he
wasn't on the school bus in seventh grade, m you know,
(16:09):
trying to lift up a girl's skirt. He just wasn't
doing that right. And so the boys even knew that
he was not going to participate in disrespecting girls in
any way. So Sage has always been an advocate for himself,
which excuse me for a second, is a good thing.
The sexuality. Sexuality, that's a good thing, but you knowing
(16:29):
that's a really good thing. But I remember when Sage
was trying to get, you know, some flak from some
of the kids in middle school. Sage actually went on
the Master's school website and literally said, Mom, I want
to go to school here. I scheduled a tour. And
I was like, what if anything, you're gonna go where
(16:50):
your brother and sister go. But obviously we've made another
choice because Sage has always been an advocate for himself.
So what is amazing about him is that not only
wasn't an advocate, but in high school he was the
president of a diversity club and he invited his dad
and me to school to you know, because he said
he was going to participate. So we're so mean, Oh,
(17:12):
he's gonna introduce the guest speaker. He's going to you
know in a start and maybe close the event. I'm
just proud. I'm just going to go support my child.
You know whatever, Sage were you senior or junior. I
believe that was started senior year. Okay, so it was
the beginning of senior year. So Sage, it just turned seventeen,
and we sit there. James comes, you know, from work
(17:33):
or whatever. He runs in the room, sits down. We're
just ready to applaud, and you know, all of a
sudden we realized that Sage wasn't just introducing the topic
for the night, which is the LGBTQ, and you know,
having awareness around that. I thought we were going for
like a Martin Luther King or Malcolm X diversity. I
didn't know we were going for LGBTQ. It didn't matter
(17:55):
whatever he was doing. I was coming right. And then
he wasn't just introducing the speakers. He was the speaker.
So James and I look to each other and we
were just like, wait, what is going on right now?
Like what is happening? Because not only was he teaching
(18:16):
and inviting people to ask questions and to sort of
rethink their normal way of thinking, he was pointing out microaggressions.
I was blown away by my own child, both as
an advocate for others, but also understanding who he was.
And then he said, after all of that, says, you
may not remember this. He said this after like a
(18:38):
two hour workshop and parents and teachers, it was over
one hundred people there it was amazing. And then he said,
and I know we've told you all this, We've explained
all the terms, we've explained all the different categories, but
if they change in two weeks, just love your child
if they adjusted and want to be called something else
or identified differently. And I thought, oh my god, this
(18:59):
is just the beginning. Like I had hard time wrapping
my mind around all of it. And then that was
even before the LGBTQ movement really started to assign pronounce
that was right around that time on a more wide
scale level. And then when Jay decided Jay was they
wanted us to use to pronounce them a day, that
(19:20):
was a whole other journey. So we have spent a
lot of time in family therapy so we can both
understand what our kids need, where we messed up, where
we got it right, and to often ask for patience
and grace to get it right. And I think that
that's been the hardest thing for me is knowing, you know,
(19:41):
I'm the one that's often come and affirmed my children,
and all of a sudden, I'm using a pronoun that
makes them feel unloved and unrespected and unheard and unseen.
That's that was heartbreaking for me. Will be right back
after these messages. Welcome back to the show. Yeah, Oh,
there's so much that I want to from what you
were talking about. The first little quick thing that I
(20:04):
will do is, I'm so happy to hear both of
you talking about therapy because I am a huge fan, advocate, proponent,
supporter of family seeking therapy for whatever they need to
and I know in the black community there has been
I hope it's less now, but there have been some
reluctance to engage in that kind of practice, and so
(20:24):
every opportunity that I can, and thankfully on this podcast,
I talked to a lot of people who have had
therapy appreciate therapy, so I'm very glad to hear that.
It doesn't It means that you're just taking the time
to try to understand yourself and your family better. It
doesn't mean anything more than that. So just limit a
little plug for that. But I want to roll all
(20:45):
the way back. There's so many you guys have really
hit on all the topics I want to talk about,
But Sage, I want to swing to you for just
a second and roll back to we've just heard your
mom's perception of this event being kind of a light
bulb going off, kind of a new understanding. Did you
know that did you have a sense of that when
(21:06):
you were or were you just sort of in the
mode of I am who I am, and I guess
everybody should come and hear this. So definitely towards the
end of high school, this is where it was. It
was like kind of my thing to be like in
these clubs, like I was very much so involved. It
was my life. I would stay really late at school,
going from like Diversity Ambassadors, but then doing my own
(21:28):
clubs with the intersectional feminist group, the Queer Affinity group,
people of color affinity group, Like this was my life
and still is in some ways just different because I'm
in university obviously, so for me, I don't know that
I expected as much surprise. Almost the point of the
event actually was to help parents and teachers learn because
(21:53):
we had realized recently that there were just so many
questions and we wanted to support those with questions, not
like shame them, not be like why don't you know this,
but actually give an opportunity to use this information to
help students, to help their children, and you know, just
to live a better life, have better relationships things like that.
(22:15):
So I don't know that I was expecting as big
of a response as I as I did, But my
mom has been very much, so supportive of this one night.
I think it really did change her viewpoint on a
few things, and that's really all we could ask for.
It was with two other classmates in front of mine,
(22:39):
and we or three of the only like out people
at my school, specifically me and one of the guys.
There were not a lot of gay men out in
my high school. So part of it is minorities and
oppress groups shouldn't necessarily have to inform other people, Like
I don't think that it's on black people to inform
(23:02):
white people, you know, because that's an emotional labor thing.
But also that's why it's so important when you do
have those people willing to put that energy out there,
that you do listen. And that's why I was so
happy with that event, because the three of us that
were working on it, we were working on it, and
it's not that simple. One of them wasn't out to
(23:22):
their parents yet. It was a stressful job to do that,
and that's on top of school and stuff like that,
and you're talking to adults. We are like fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen seventeen, like between those ages, so I don't know.
It was rewarding experience to see people actually take the
information to engage with the workshops. The most interesting part
(23:43):
was actually the Q and A at the end, and
that's really what showed like people were listening and people
were trying to actively learn. I mean literally, Sage had
a line of parents and instructors waiting to speak with
him after and to get his email so they can
ask other questions along the line. So it was it
was a moment of I was so proud to know
(24:03):
that my child wasn't just an advocate for themselves, but
that they were advocate for others. And what I realized,
and again this goes to your audience, Carol, I realized
that Stage had done research. Okay, it wasn't just a
feeling that Sage had. Because this is an age of
information and on you know, you can find anything you
(24:24):
want on the internet. He understood way more than I
could have ever taught him, or even he could have
learned just on an instructional level in a class, you
know whatever, a gender studies class. Sage had such an
understanding because he spent hours and hours and hours of
educating himself, so I thought the least I can do.
(24:45):
It's been hours and hours trying to figure this out,
trying to go to therapy, trying to understand how to
be a better ally and better advocate. And you know,
it's been a little spicy, you know, with the whole
church thing, because even relationship with the church has changed,
both because of the Black Lives Matter, but also as
a result of this, because my Bible in my teaching,
(25:09):
was that God said love one another as yourself and
to love God, and so those were the only two
commandments in the church that should matter. So oftentimes when
I talk to Christian groups, I say that and then
what else can you say? After that? There is really
no debates, And so you know, I think I am
(25:30):
still growing, still evolving. Yeah, I've heard from gay friends
who had a very strong relationship with the church that
they have had to rethink it. And there's been a
spectrum of people who have had to walk away, and
I mean who have been devastated by that loss in
their life because they feel as you do, but the
structure of it, they couldn't find a home that made
(25:51):
them feel good, and then others who have found church
homes where they are understood and their love. So yeah,
that is a journey that I know can be tough
to walk. Now, I so appreciate the two of you
coming on and talking to me about this, since, Sage,
since I understand you've already you have been in this
situation many times. That is answering questions for people. So
(26:12):
I hope you won't mind that throughout this podcast, I'll
be asking you these questions that are probably eye rolling
to most people, but you've You've got an audience of
people who includes people who aren't as familiar with so
much terminology, and so I do appreciate from that story
that you stand ready to be the patient instructor. So
I want to ask both of you the same kind
(26:33):
of question, and Sage, I think i'll start with you.
So you've described a circumstance where, apart from the first
little blip on the coming out scale in the sense
that you sort of came out and then went back in,
but ultimately when you came out fully and you felt
very confident in that your family embraced you, you went
(26:54):
I'm sure that it was not a bumpless road. But
you were very comforted by the fact that you didn't well,
I'm making you resumption, but you didn't lose good friends,
You didn't lose the things that you were the most
afraid of didn't happen. I mean, I'm is that a
fair statement or fair based on what I told you?
But I definitely did lose friendships. Some of my oldest friends.
(27:19):
We kind of grew apart, I would say, I guess
conveniently when I came out, some people that I play
video games with like stopped talking to me or thought
responding to me. But in terms of my friends at school,
that wasn't really something I experienced as much, especially because
I was able to They weren't really out at the time,
(27:41):
but I was able to gravitate towards a queer friend group,
at least partly, And I think you just kind of
find your people that way. And it's sad because you know,
no one wants to lose some of their best friends.
But at the end, something that I will always find
really important, and I think a lot of queer people do,
(28:01):
is found family. I love my family, but also found
family is really important because you don't choose your family.
You choose your found family, and your family isn't always
going to respect you, love you for who you are,
even though they should. So you can find the people
that do, and you can find people that relate. You
could find people that don't relate, but our great allies
(28:24):
and will listen and uplift you. So yeah, it definitely
wasn't bumbless. And I think even with my family there
were strains in our relationship with some more than others.
But I feel extremely lucky with my coming out. Extremely
I did not like at one end of the spectrum
(28:44):
get kicked out by my parents, are disowned. But I
also wasn't like bullied NonStop in high school or and
I was able to actually be very much so proud
and out at my school, like giving talks on this
type of stuff when other places, other schools wouldn't be
as accepting or give you that time or space. And
(29:08):
I know that you want to come in here, but
I just have one more question for sage. What would
you say to your friends or to anyone how would
you counsel people who either are afraid that they won't
have the experience that you had or are having a
bad experience that their their fears were realized. I mean,
what do you say to people that where it's not
so easy? Is that part of the found family concept?
(29:32):
It definitely is, and honestly, on some level, it's a
hard question when I'm glad you asked, But it's a
hard question because one obviously there isn't like a great
answer um and it really just depends on your environment.
I will say this with some hesitants, but everyone should
(29:53):
be able to come out if they if they want
not everyone needs to ever, but everyone should be able
to come out. They should be able to express themselves.
They should be able to live their lives in safety.
But there are times where it's like you have to
weigh the safety if you live in an environment, in
a family or something like that where coming out might
cause you harm physical, mental, emotional, you have to weigh
(30:14):
that against you know, if keeping your true self is
also hurting you in the same or more. Yeah, so
it's it's always a series of political negotiations, is how
I would describe it. But in terms of finding those communities,
I think that online is a great way to do that.
(30:36):
It's hard because especially if you're young, be careful going online,
especially I don't know with people that you don't know,
but at the same time, things from Twitter to Instagram,
to Tumblr to like fandoms online, I think that that's
one place you could definitely find your family. Wow, that's great.
That was so well said, Angelique. Let me just ask
(30:57):
you this just to follow up on that. Just tragic
to hear that someone could actually say I can't tell
my parents because of the fear of the reaction, Angelie.
That sort of that dovetails into the question for families
that aren't for a myriad of reasons, for whatever reason,
aren't as easily able to just dive into the love
(31:20):
they have for their child, and they're unable to be
as accepting as we would all want them to be.
I mean, what would you say to people to sort
of help them let go of the expectations and what
should they be sure to do or not to do
to make sure their child is not negatively impacted? One.
You just got a level and that's number that's number one.
If you love your child, you know I have to
(31:42):
bring up and what I was going to bring forward
was just the reality of the depression, in the anxiety
and the mental health issues that arise because our children
don't feel seen and heard and respected and and that
they can be their authentic self. Right and in our
(32:04):
particular family, you know, one of my kids had some
social anxiety, one that deals with depression. And it's let
me just give you a statistic because this is what
you have. All I can tell you is you have
to love and accept them. But when you look at
some of these statistics, like forty five of LGBTQ youth
considers suicide in the last year, that's current, more than
(32:28):
half of non binary kids have considered it, and one
out of five non binary children have attempted suicide in
the last two years. So any loving parent, any caring parent,
(32:48):
I think we all you know that's our greatest fears, right,
that something could harm our child or self harmer. You
know that there our child would not live a healthy, wonderful,
loving life. When you look at seventy three percent of
LGBTQ youth experience either depression, anxiety or both. Seventy three percent.
(33:10):
How about this forty percent of LGBTQ youth within the
juvenile detention system, forty percent of them are LGBTQ identify.
That means they're being abused, they're getting into fights there,
they're in a situations that no loving parent wants their
child to be at. LGBTQ youth are more likely to
(33:33):
become homeless because they're running away from home, or their
parents are putting them out, or they don't feel safe
in the home. And then now about one more, one
third of the LGBTQ youth that were polled and asked
to participate in this one third of them said they
had to explain to their doctors and their therapists about
(33:56):
what it meant to be LGBTQ. Huh, So the parents
don't know, the therapists don't know, and the positions don't know. Wow,
this makes me just go right back to your quote
that I opened with about how parents have to put
ourselves aside and not think about ourselves, how we are
reacting to think about our children. All those statistics, those
(34:19):
heartbreaking statistics, every one of them. If you could get
through to a parent who's having trouble coping with the
different life that their child is presenting to them than
the one they imagine, which is really all that it is.
It's sort of just it's an adjustment of belief, right,
It's an adjustment to thinking about things differently, and I
follow going to be honest, there's also there can be
fear involved in it as well for your child, because
(34:42):
we know other statistics about you know, bullying and being targeted,
and so there's some fear in there. But it also
is just sort of you know, we all kind of
gravitate to what we know, I mean, parenting wise or
life wise, and so if there's something that our child
wants to do that we're not familiar with, there's there
can be reluctance. But when you hear those statistics, you
just have to put yourself aside. And that is That's
(35:03):
one I'm really glad that you guys are on today
because that's one of the things I talk about all
the time in this podcast, that we really have to
look at our children as not sort of there from us,
but they're not. They are their own persons, their own
own people. And the other part of this, though is
I think both of you had said this, but acually
the patience and the grace, because I mean, this isn't
(35:24):
easy for anyone sage. It couldn't have been easy just
sort of figuring out that you knew the life that
you knew was going to be a life that was
going to have to speak up for yourself a lot more,
perhaps than you might have been inclined to generally, and
from a parenting perspective, you're sort of like, Okay, I
have to pivot. Pivoting isn't always easy. I hope you've
(35:47):
enjoyed part one of our two part conversation with Angelique
and Sage Francis. It continues next week when we'll talk
about the distinction between gender and sexuality, have a conversation
around pronoun choice, a topic that can get a little
stressful for some of us, and more. Here's a little
taste of what's coming next week. I realize if I
don't know someone now, I'm hesitant to assign a pronoun
(36:09):
to them because I don't know what pronoun they would want.
So I get that, But it's the opposite of the
patience and the grace, the sort of impatience and intolerance
that one can be met with if you don't get
on board as quickly as you need to. And I
think that part of the angry response to pronouns, though
you may have experienced it yourself, is kind of overblown
(36:33):
and creates like a picture of a blue hair dyed
liberal that's angry if anyone doesn't assume the right pronouns, like,
I don't think that really is representative of the real world.
But I will say a couple things about it, because
this is really beyond a pronoun or a name calling
or a category. And why does everybody have to fit
(36:54):
in some neat box so that all of us feel comfortable,
so we can walk in a room and say, oh,
we're in that box. Stre in that box. That's not life,
that's not who we are, that's not humane. Even so,
please join us. As always, I'd love for you to
please subscribe, rate, and review Groundcltrol Parenting with Carol Sutton
Lewis wherever you find your podcasts and tell your friends.
(37:15):
For more parenting info and advice, please check out the
Groundcotrol Parenting blog at groundctrol parenting dot com. You can
also find us on Instagram and Facebook at groundcltrol Parenting
and on LinkedIn. Unto Carol Sutton Lewis, the Groundcatrol Parenting
with Carol Sutton Lewis podcast is a part of the
Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartMedia until the
next time, take care and thanks for listening.
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