October 30, 2024 • 41 mins
Nancy’s back, with an important new book! Carol Sutton Lewis sits down for another great conversation with NY Times best-selling author and Mompreneuers podcast host, Nancy Redd. Nancy returns to discuss her latest, The Real Body Manual: Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness, a groundbreaking and comprehensive photographic guide that explores the realities of growing up and navigating body changes.
In this candid and open discussion, Nancy and Carol tackle everything tweens and teens need to know about their bodies. Nancy shares with Carol how the book covers essential topics like puberty, body image, self-care, gender in a judgment-free way. They talk about how body changes during puberty, if not properly discussed and understood, can potentially impact a young person’s mental health. Carol and Nancy also discuss the importance of equipping young people with accurate information about their bodies and the best ways to take care of themselves.
Nancy’s wisdom, humor, and honesty help parents feel comfortable discussing topics they might have been avoiding. This must-listen episode provides parents and caregivers with the tools to help tweens and teens (and everyone else) understand their bodies and how they work.
Links:
The Real Body Manual: Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness by Nancy Redd
Mompreneurs: The Joys of Parenting with Carol Sutton Lewis (article in Madame Noire)
Mompreneurs Podcast Episode hosted by Nancy Redd featuring Carol Sutton Lewis
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com.
And don’t forget to subscribe to the Substack newsletter for behind-the-scenes info, bonus parenting tips, and more!.
In this candid and open discussion, Nancy and Carol tackle everything tweens and teens need to know about their bodies. Nancy shares with Carol how the book covers essential topics like puberty, body image, self-care, gender in a judgment-free way. They talk about how body changes during puberty, if not properly discussed and understood, can potentially impact a young person’s mental health. Carol and Nancy also discuss the importance of equipping young people with accurate information about their bodies and the best ways to take care of themselves.
Nancy’s wisdom, humor, and honesty help parents feel comfortable discussing topics they might have been avoiding. This must-listen episode provides parents and caregivers with the tools to help tweens and teens (and everyone else) understand their bodies and how they work.
Links:
The Real Body Manual: Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness by Nancy Redd
Mompreneurs: The Joys of Parenting with Carol Sutton Lewis (article in Madame Noire)
Mompreneurs Podcast Episode hosted by Nancy Redd featuring Carol Sutton Lewis
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com.
And don’t forget to subscribe to the Substack newsletter for behind-the-scenes info, bonus parenting tips, and more!.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. I am
so excited to welcome back to the podcast today's guest
best selling author Nancy Read Yay.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Nancy's back.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
And today, in an episode geared especially for parents of
tweens and teens, we're going to talk about her latest book,
which has just been released, called The Real Body Manual,
Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness. And this is
a groundbreaking photographic manual that tackles everything, yes, everything a
young person needs to know about their body in a
(00:49):
judgment free and gender neutral way. Nancy is an award
winning on air host, a New York Times and USA
best selling author, a two time Mom's Choice Award winner,
an NAACP Image Award nominee for Outstanding Literary Work, and
a GLAD Media Award nominee for Outstanding Digital Journalism. She
is also the author, as dedicated GCP listeners will know
(01:10):
of The Real Santa, which celebrates Black Santa and Bedtime Bonnet,
a celebration of black hair and haircare rituals, both of
which she's talked about during our previous podcast together. She
is also the creator and host of the streaming podcast Mompreneurs,
which is in its third season and which I was
a guest on, and I'll put how you can find
that episode in the show notes for this episode. Nancy
(01:33):
holds an honors degree in Women's studies from Harvard University,
and she and her delightful husband rupak Tin have two children,
August who is thirteen and Rupali, who is ten. Welcome
back to ground Control Parenting, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you, Oh my goodness, I'm excited for round three.
I'm honored.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yes, we are excited to have you here for round three.
It's such a treat to have you back. And today
you are bringing your expertise on everything a tween and
teen need to know about their bodies and how parents
can help their kids make sense of it all with
the help of your books. So let's get started.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
There's a pattern here because the first time I came on,
I was talking about hair care for toddlers. Right with
my daughter. I wanted her to start wearing her Bonnet,
and then they got older and really into Santa. So
we talked about Santa and representation because my son was
knee deep in Santa in early elementary school, and now
(02:28):
I had the teen in tween and we are knee
deep in puberty, miles from Bonnets and Santa.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Let me tell you, and how fortunate for all of
us that you have applied your considerable literary skills to
chronicle all along the way things that parents need to know.
And boy, with this book, you have done an amazing job.
So first, let's talk about what you kind of alluded
to it already, But what led you to write a
(02:55):
book all about a real body manual about helping kids
have better understandings of how their bodies work.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Writing has always been kind of a therapy for me.
It's a healing process because whatever stress or anxiety I
have in here, it doesn't it just sits in there,
and then I have to get it out. And I
love to journal. I love to write, and over the years,
these feelings, these thoughts, these concerns and fears and the
(03:23):
ways I work on them turned into my books. Like
each book I've written correlates to a direct issue that
I myself have had to deal with personally or I
have seen my children dealing with. And I love that.
I love writing nonfiction because it's an opportunity to help
other people grow and learn just like I have. And so,
(03:45):
you know, I started talking about my own body, and
then I started talking about my children's hair, my children's
love of Santa, And now we are in my children's puberty,
which I'm sure you know, Carol, is very different than
the you and I went through way.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's different in so many ways. In one really good
and important way, it's more talked about. It's more discussed. Actually,
I think it's a good and important way, as long
as it's discussed responsibly. I have to add to that
that it's discussed a lot, and maybe not always so responsibly.
So I'm glad that you are taking the time and
doing the research to present a responsible look at how
(04:27):
our children should be taking a look at their bodies
and feeling how they can feel about the way that
they are maturing. It's such a scary thing, this puberty thing.
I mean, what I do remember is that it was
foreign feeling and scary, And so did you did you
find it scary.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
When you were found it very scary when I was
going to puberty. There were no role models, there was
no Instagram, there were no social media. There is no
one who looked like me. There was the rumor mill
and shame and fear. And for me, eradicating shame and
fear in my own life, in the life of other people,
and in particular in the life of my children has
(05:04):
been exceptionally important. And one thing that I do in
The Real Body Manual and most of my other nonfiction
books is I correlate accessible research, responsible as you say,
information with photographs because this generation, in particular is just
bombarded with images, air brushed images. I mean, this has
(05:26):
been ongoing for twenty years, but it's come to a
big front because these kids just don't even know what's real,
what's AI at this point, and what's natural, what is enhanced,
and what's healthy and what's not. So I really wanted
to give my kids and their friends and teens and
(05:48):
tweens around the world a resource that relates to the
issues that they have and provides photographic evidence of what
is and isn't something they should become learned about. And
more often than not, the issue is not anything you
need to be concerned about. You just don't know that.
I know, growing up, I thought my body was super weird,
(06:08):
super stinky, super strange. Something's wrong with me, and kind
to find out over the years, I was stressed out
about a lot of nothing, but some things I wasn't
stressed out about. I should have been, like my periods
being super heavy.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
And then don't even get me started on the fact
that poor boys or people who identify as boys, and
in particular people with penises, very little is talked about
when it comes to their purest experience. So that's where
the real body manual comes in.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You know, it's so interesting and listen thinking as you're
talking that so much of parenting comes from we draw
so much on our own experience to parent. There is
no manual for parenting that everyone can follow. And so
many of us grew up in an era where things
weren't discussed a lot, and then even if they were,
we grew up with our own feeling about our own body.
(06:58):
And as you said, sometimes it's shames, sometimes it's concerned,
sometimes it's just bewilderment. And then we have children and
we don't think about how the way that we have
reacted to our body impacts the way we talk to
them about theirs. Certainly in the era in which I
grew up, you didn't talk about things. You really didn't.
It was just better not to you figure it out.
You didn't, No one talked to you ahead of time.
(07:21):
You was kind of a need to know basis, and
the need to know was born of you getting to
the panic stage and having to say something. So it's really,
it is really so much better now that we're talking
about things. We're acknowledging that parts of what parts of
our body look like, because there's so much that we
(07:41):
didn't as we grew up. Certainly people in my generation
grew up, we weren't encouraged to think about that, and
that definitely has impacted the way that we have talked
to our children about it. You know, I want to
ask you, though, one of the things that really has
struck me in the creation of your book now, and
particularly as you said, it's in a world where there's so
much visual representation that may or may not be accurate,
(08:04):
and in many instances it's not. There's also correlated to
this sort of the advent of social media, is this
terrible decline in mental health. I mean, there's a mental
health crisis among adolescents, and is you're thinking that perhaps
if they know a little bit more about what's going on,
that could ease that crisis.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Well, the mental health crisis is multifaested and definitely, body
positivity and what I like to call physical awareness is
part and parcel in helping one to have a healthy
mindset about one's health and one's abilities, and one's capacity
and one's worth in life. Right. And what I do
find is a lot of people don't grow up with
(08:47):
a firm understanding of how their body works, and they
don't have a lot of resources to turn to because
a lot of people don't feel comfortable talking to their parents.
And it's not just because their parents are are not
people they want to talk to. Sometimes the parents don't
have good information on what is and isn't normal. Right.
(09:07):
So with the Real Body Manual, it's kind of a
book for the whole family. I like to say it's
a great book for a parent to read first, and
as the kids starts having questions or it's a great
opportunity for you to ask them questions about what's in
the book. Right. So I think it's important that we
perhaps acknowledge that boys in particular are having a lot
(09:31):
of concerns about their penis size, and I don't think
people are talking to them enough about that. So if
you've got a person with a penis in your household,
I think it's a fair thing to incorporate conversations like, hey,
just checking in to make sure that everything's okay. Like,
I know you're going through puberty, there might be some
changes in particular with your genitalia, and I just want
(09:52):
you to know that, like, I have a resource and
I've always open to talk to you if you need
to go to the doctor, that's okay. And just saying
some like that can take years of mental anguish off
of a person's mind, just knowing that I'm not weird
for having these concerns, I'm not insane for being incessantly
(10:13):
thinking about these things. And we've gotten a lot better
in particular about menstruation, but there's miles to go we
need to improve, in particular in the black and brown community,
when mental health issues are still stigmatized and it's all
wrapped up. It's wrapped up in our skin, it's wrapped
up in our mental health, it's wrapped up in our diet,
it's wrapped up in the way our body works. So
(10:35):
I'm proud of this book because I think it offers
an opportunity to break open a lot of taboo issues,
a lot of confusing issues, and hopefully carve out a
little bit. I can't control the whole world. I can't
control mental health at large, but I can help in
tiny ways with the aspect of body positivity.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Absolutely, this is a family book and parents can use
it as they see fit. And it makes sense to me,
having looked at this great book and read through it,
that parents of children who are just beginning puberty might
want to have the book on their shelves and read
it first themselves and note the parts that make them
comfortable and uncomfortable to discuss, because you have such a
(11:20):
familial and certainly wise but thoughtful way of discussing all
the issues in the book, and a parent can take
a page, literally a page from you and use your
language or at least get comfortable with talking about it
by reading it first before they show. And they could
decide because there are lots of pictures, they could decide
(11:41):
what pictures they want to share when issues come up
you know, we grew up. I grew up hearing it's
private parts, it's your privates. I mean, you don't talk
about it because it's private. You know, you can't show
your pri It's all very much. You whispered about things.
I mean, even menstruation. When I was growing up, it
was sort of not what you discussed and open. And
(12:02):
that's not the way the world works, and it's not
the way the world should work. And so how refreshing
and enlightening it was for me to scroll through this
book and see how you tackle all these different subjects
like breasts and breast size and bra size. And one
of the things is, you know, it's very funny. One
of the things I'm going to ask you a little
(12:22):
in a minute about how you did your research and
all the medical vetting. But one of the things you
do that I thought was so helpful is you have
a whole section on skin and you talk about various
skin ailments. And whenever I look up a skin ailment
on Google, I always brace myself because you go to
images and they're going to be twenty five pictures of
really awful renditions of whatever this ailment is. And you
(12:45):
very thoughtfully will give a picture of let's say, ezema
or some acne, different kinds of acne, and you thoughtfully
talk about how different what you should do about different
kinds of acne, and they're very There are pictures that
show you what it looks like. It's realistic, but you're
not like it's not. You don't have to put your
hands over your eyes.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And there's very little shock value. Okay, there's there's some
shock value in the book because it is a photographic
book for the entire body. But in the right context,
it is just the body. And just like with anything,
the more you absorb it, the more you look at it,
the less shocking it is. Because shock is often just
fear right, and the more comfortable a person gets with
(13:23):
looking at different parts of the body, the better off
they are. One of the things I love you mentioned
the skin chapter is I show what an eyestyle looks
like because I don't know, I don't know the first
time any of us have ever woken up and there's
a bulging thing on one's eye, it's terrifying, like going, why,
what's happening? How do I get a pample on my eye?
And so one of my early readers they read, They're like, oh,
(13:45):
I had one of those. Oh my gosh, I didn't
know this is what caused it. Dia Ya is just
the type of folliculitis. Even knowing what the word folliculitis
means makes a person more comfortable with the idea of
what razor bumps are versus razor burn, versus genital folliculitis,
versus ey stys, of all these different things. Understanding the
difference between an Eyesty award and a skin tag, because
(14:08):
these are issues we all deal with, and we need
to know when to actually go to the dermatologists, to
even know to go to the dermatologists, and when to
just leave it alone. And that's what I really like
about this book, and in particular, one of the aspects
of the skin chapter that I'm very proud of is
the fact that often in a book, if there are pictures,
and often there are not pictures, the pictures are simply
(14:30):
of one ethnicity, and that ethnicity is generally Caucasian, and
mostly because it's very difficult in the past to give
stock footage of different ethnicities and the skin issues thanks
to extreme work by a number of dermatologists, in particular
but doctors overall to gain photos of different ethnicities with
(14:53):
different skin issues. I was able to incorporate people of
color with excellent, people of color with freck, people of
color with all these types of issues, because when we
have herpes, it looks different than when a Caucasian person
as herpes, and we all need to know what these
issues look like so we can avoid them.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Absolutely. I really appreciated that you had different shades of
people and demonstrated what things look like on different shades
of people. And you even you showed hyper pigmentation and
the underarm I mean, which is when a brown person
which I've seen, I have family, you know it is.
But it's like, this is so good because people have
this and you don't know whether it's sort of life
(15:36):
or whether it's something you know, yeah, right exactly, and
so it is you really take the time to spend
so many different issues that will come up could come up,
and it's not just you do devote a lot of
time to genitalia, body parts, you know, focusing on sexual orientation,
(15:58):
sexual questions, which is really good because this is what
tweens and particularly teens need to know about. But you
also really span the whole spectrum of things that you
should think about when you're in Pubia. You mentioned being stinky.
I mean, I can't tell you how many parents have
talked to me about how tough it is to talk
to their children about stinkiness, because it gets you know,
(16:21):
if you're a little smelly. It's very as a parent,
it's hard to say that to your child without them
feeling defensive, upset, angry, you know, sort of in denial
or whatever. But when you describe sort of what's happening
and how it's happening and what you can do to
manage it. I mean, I can just see parents, like
perhaps even taking pictures of or photocopying segments of the book,
(16:43):
that they just want a hand over to their children,
even if they can't have the conversation. It's like here,
read this.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, it makes me feel better. I specifically included what
I refer to as the bathing blueprint in the book
because I think a lot of people aren't taught how
to wash their bike, even small things. As you start
from the top to the bottom, your body gets dirtier
as you go down, so you want to stop with
your face. You want to get behind your ears, you
want to do your neck, you're under armsure and also
(17:11):
understanding the folds of your genitalia to get in there.
A lot of people are not taught. This sounds like
it could not be true, but it's very true. Many
people are not taught to actually wash and scrub carefully
their anus. They are taught so much shame about their
bodies that they do not actually wash their bodies properly,
which leads to a whole host of problems, not least
(17:33):
of all discomfort. Right, So, normalizing washing from head to toe,
including your legs, including between your toes, helps a lot
with what we see a lot of people just floundering
about people who are uncircumcised. Often they do not get
the lessons they need to know about pulling back their
(17:55):
foreskin to actually wash their penis and what smegma is megma?
What is magma? What's a disease? Like? How do you
know the difference? And I'm really proud of the fact that, yes,
this is a difficult topic, but it's important that we
cover it.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
And so when the Real Body Manual does and I
talk about all kinds of things like there's the body
skin and Facial Skin chapter there's the head hair and
body hair chapter, chest and breast, bladders and bowels.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Which I'm proud of, Carol, because very few books really
have a whole chapter devoted to gastro But in our
day and age, where more and more kids are being
diagnosed with celiac ibs, food sensitivities, constipation, I felt it
was really important that we get into the nitty gritty
and so yes, while yes, genitalia and sex, gender and
(18:42):
sexual health and self help and self care are huge
parts of it too, there's the gamuth we are as
a whole need to care for ourselves inside and out,
top to bottom, and this book offers a conversation starter
and some advice and medically vetted in from on how
to do just that.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. And I actually want to ask you about
the medical vetting of it. It is so comprehensive. There's
so much information here. Can you tell me about first
of all, how you decided what to include and exclude,
and then how you were able to vet all this
information and present it so comprehensively.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yes? So okay, Well, so of this book, I want
to say that like at least a fourth of it
are my sources, so you know that the advice and
the information is not just coming from Nancy's head, which
my head is great, but it's coming from verified sources.
And then on top of that, I hired experts in
(19:44):
each field. I hired a pediatric gastro, I hired a
renowned dermatologist. I hired multiple gynecologists. I hired two urologists.
I hired a psychotherapist, I hired a psychiatrist, I hired
a psychologist, all to go through the whole book and
the pieces that they are in, particularly experts in to
(20:06):
make sure that I was giving the most modern, the
most accurate, the most inclusive advice that I possibly could.
And then on top of that, I had a couple
of pediatricians read it from top to bottom, as well
as a few gender experts, as well as quite a
few regular people as as my sensitivity readers. Because one
of the things that I love about the Real Body
(20:28):
Manual is this is not just a book for one individual.
This is a book because we are a melting pot
not just of ethnicity, but of human natures. And when
you read in this book and you learn about what
an intersex person is, which is at least the number
of people who have green eyes in America are about
(20:49):
the same number of people who are intersex, meaning born
with like we saw with the Olympics right with not
cut and dry male or female, chromosomal or genetic materials. Right.
And we need to be aware of that. We need
to be careful to understand who everyone in our society is,
(21:09):
how we treat them, and how we talk about them.
So this is not just an opportunity to learn about
your own body, but also the body is of all
of the people in your world, your friends, your family,
your partners.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And note to parents, the chapter on sexuality and gender differences.
It's so instructive for so many parents who know that
they need to know about all of this, but don't
know who to ask, don't want to feel dumb, don't
want to make mistakes, don't want to misspeak. If you
really lay it out so well and so clearly so
(21:47):
that you do all when I was reading through us, like, oh,
she answers all the questions I hear all the time
about people wondering, you know, what does this mean? Why
do I have to say they or whatever? People say
that are older and are not in the midst of
and not actively living in the world where people do
focus on these issues. So it's really helpful. I say
(22:09):
this to say that parents who children are grown and
flown would still do well to take a look at
this book, and you will absolutely learn something. For sure,
you might learn more than you think.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Well, you know, it is the modern and healthy way
to address everyone. We kind of grew up with you
conform to the status quo, and that leaves behind a
lot of people and lembs to a lot of the
mental health stigmas that we are facing as a community
and as a country at large. Right. Why my book
(22:43):
is so comprehensive is because the more I wrote, the
more I realized I didn't know, and the more I
saw support and understanding, and the more I realized how
important it was to synthesize the world we live in
for those individual Jules who might not be aware yet.
(23:04):
But it's very important in all of our households that
we take seriously and with care, the importance of learning
what people are going through, what your family might be
going through, what and honestly you might be going through
one day. So I was really proud of the effort
(23:24):
I went through to ensure that everything was squeaky clean,
that the information provided might be new to you, but
it's been in the world for some time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And the tone of this book is I liking it
to sort of a really educated, well educated big sister.
It's loving, it's thoughtful, but it's just telling the truth.
It's not sort of sugarcoating anything or calling anything a
cute name or a pet name. You're basically like, here
are several pictures of penises. They all look different. You know,
(23:59):
understand that not everyone looks the same. You know, Yes,
you can have a woman, a can have a chest
that's for your breast are two different sizes. It's not crazy,
I mean, but it's so that the tone is very compassionate.
And did it how did you find this voice? I mean,
did you have to? Was it through research and finding
(24:20):
that this voice wasn't around so much? Or was it
basically you just saying this is how I talk, and
I just want to talk to everybody this way.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, this is how I talk. You know me, Carol,
I'm pretty much a plain talker. I'll just like say it,
and I'll say it the way I say it with
a smile in my face, you know, like yes, you know,
half a voice. Will probably develop some sort of small
breast during puberty at some point because of all foremones.
I find that's easier and more palatable than skirting around
the issue. One thing that I try, and we've talked
(24:47):
about this before in my parenting, I try to be
very when it comes to stuff like this, But when
it comes to the body, may I take the emotion out.
I try to just make it a positive conversation of education.
We will not be having pity parties. Whatever's going on
with us. We are just seeking the truth and to
make it the best case ever. In fact, when I
(25:08):
talk about puberty with my kids, actually you know, I'm
very careful about the conversation and how I present it.
That's kind of how it is with the real body manual.
When I talk about these changes, oftentimes they are discussed
with trepidation or fear, or concern or loss. I look
at this phase of figuring out who you are and
(25:31):
learning about your body. It's like the best stake it
ever because when you're entering puberty, let's say like you
start this journey like ten eleven, twelve, and as we
know it goes to like twenty five. You know that's amazing.
That's a period of your life where I tell my kids,
your only goal right now is to be a good human,
to do well in school, and to figure out your body,
(25:52):
to take care of yourself, to learn what you like
and don't like, to learn your style, to learn who
you are. And at this period of your life, not
just do you have this book and other books I've
written and other books other people have written. You have
all the resources available to you because everyone wants to
help you. I think there's no reason to be upset
about going through puberty. There's no reason to be upset
(26:13):
about learning about your body and learning about how to
take care of yourself and learning about differences. You should
be celebrating because it's exciting to have this time. And
then of course I was throwing because mommy is going
through what we call second puberty, which is one of us,
and it's not as easy. So if you want to
(26:34):
save some pity, pity for your mom because I have
to do all this and pay bills and figure it
out myself. Oh you have to do the show up
and figure out what face wash. And you want to wear,
and I think by making it kind of silly like that,
like my daughter, who's you know, in the throes of
it all, like first day of school, they were talking
(26:56):
about who got their period, who didn't get their period,
and then she said to me, she was like, but
I just remember this is my best decade because I'm
just like figuring out if I want to use pets,
if I want to use a period underwear. I'm just like,
guess girl, just tell me what you want, I will
get it for you. I want a mom to tell
me how to deal with my hot flashes, miss and
(27:18):
missing periods. I wanted the best decade. It's dead. We're
over here talking about in the corners, like freaking out,
well all this stuff, so I digress. So the tone
comes from who I am is how I've always written
my books. My non finish chin books are always very
informative and a little flippant, and because life is too short,
this is we have real problems, but learning about your
(27:39):
body should not be one of them.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And one of one of the real services you provide
in this book. In addition to telling people things about
their body that they should know and they don't and
giving parents a guide to discuss things about their children's
bodies that they may not be comfortable. First of all,
they may not know to come up with all the information,
and even if they did, they may not be comfortable
(28:01):
discussing it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So you give us a tone.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You also give some really practical and good information. I
mean there's a whole section on what different doctors expertises are.
I mean, just a list of this person does this,
this person does this, so that children can know from
an early age that if you have some issue, there
are people with a very specific expertise who you can
go to who can tell you pretty quickly whether this
(28:24):
is something that is something you should worry about or
not at all. And so many of us grew up
knowing there was a doctor. I mean, you had a doctor,
but that was pretty much it. And it wasn't until
there was some crisis where you knew there were other doctors.
But just knowing that they're all leader's eye doctor and
what that's called, and there's the person that helps you
(28:44):
if you have stomach aches and all, it's very valuable information.
I want to impress upon parents who are listening that
you definitely have to go out and get this book
for your own sake, even if you decide that you
don't want to hand it over to your child. And
I only say that because it's all the subjects are
handed with, handled with great candor, with specificity, and smart.
(29:07):
It's smartest. Heck, as Nancy said, they're pictures. There are
things that might even make parents pause because how many
parents have seen pictures of ten penises in a book?
I mean maybe they have, maybe they haven't. But it's
really important that you put whatever feelings you may have
about that as a concept away and just put on
your parenting hat, because you are doing your children and
(29:29):
yourself a real service by just knowing this stuff or
knowing where to find out about this stuff. I mean,
knowledge is truly power when it comes to health and
body issues. I mean it's powerful to be able to
know where to go to help you to solve for
any issues. It's powerful in terms of knowing where to
go if you have any questions, but also the peace
(29:50):
of mind in knowing that if there's something that you're
worried about, you can just pick up this book and
see if it's in there. And if it's in there,
you're going to have practical answers. It's going to be
thoughtfully rich. So I tell this to say that parents,
it's definitely worth getting and putting it on your shelf.
You know, there was a book years ago called Our
Bodies Ourselves which did this for women, and it talked
(30:10):
a lot about women's issues that had never been talked
about before. And there's been a real desert of this
kind of book until now. And now it's even better
because it's all about everybody.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well, Our Bodies Ourselves actually still kicking in around some
beautiful book. It is also for all genders. And actually
the co founder of Our Bodies Ourselves, Juniorsigian Blurned this
book is a wonderful supporter. She's a wonderful human being
and is still championing the fight for human rights at large.
And so yes, So the difference is mine has photos,
(30:43):
which is a very difficult task. Being able to do
a photographic book is not easy, but I feel it's
very important because we are in a world right now
where there's so much information, a lot of it is
not good. A lot of people do not know the
names for their own body parts. We have had slightly
more of a conversation about this when it comes to volvas,
(31:05):
but when it comes to like a lot of boys
don't even know what a testicle is, a lot of
people with penises cannot describe their own parts. One of
the gynecologists that reviewed the book actually said this will
be so helpful with college kids who often are in
relationships for the first time and have no idea what
(31:25):
is going on with their body or the other person's body.
And I think that's very important. So and it's also
important to note that, yes, there are two hundred pictures
in the book about give or take maybe like I
don't know, ten percent of them are like ah, like
budget vulvas, penises, but they're all very very medically presented. Right.
(31:46):
You do have a picture of gaynomestsia, for example, which
is when a boy develops briss in his teenage years
from foremones, not because they're not this gender, but because
it's a very common thing it happens to a lot
of voys. You have pictures of inverted nos. But again
you also have pictures of types of contraceptions, so you
understand what the difference is between a condom, an IUD,
(32:08):
a diaphragm, the birth control pill. You as we mentioned before,
we have pictures of all kinds of skin issues, hyperpigmentation,
I size, skin tags, what skin cancer looks like. You
have pictures of mail cancer, which is a very specific
type of skin cancer that's very prevalent in the black
and brown community, more so than other communities. And because
it just looks like a bruise, it often goes unnoticed.
(32:31):
You can't present these things in illustrations. We are not
in an illustrated world. To pretend to be so is
naive and does a disservice to the people we're raising
to become our leaders. And I personally don't think you
can lead much of anything if you don't know the
names of your body. And I think we're seeing kind
(32:52):
of what happens when we shave that stuff under the
brood and gets hope it goes away. It doesn't go away,
It festers and becomes worse.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Right, No, absolutely, And I will also say that in
addition to all of these really important facts and useful information,
they're also some kind of fun and interesting facts. I mean,
fun is probably not the right word, but really interesting
things that I didn't know. I mean, for example, you
say that you tell us that hot showers, which we
all love a good hot shower. I love a hot shower.
(33:22):
They feel great, but they're not always great for your skin.
I mean, who knew? And then this was when I
really didn't know. And that is that the UV light
that you used to cure gel manicures, those UV lights
have been linked to skin cancer, which I never heard.
But you also say, I mean before everybody just never
goes to a nail place again, that you can if
(33:44):
you put suntan lotion on your hands, you can protect
your hands against the harmful elements of the UV rays.
I mean, who knew.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, it's fascinating. So I am excited for this book
to enter the world because it is tell you what's
going on with your body. It gives you opportunities to
protect and take care of yourself. Right, So I only
do my own nails now after I figured this out,
because we're seeing an increase in skin cancer and communities,
especially black and brown communities, who normally do not suffer
(34:14):
from skin cancers much. Because the more you get your
nails done then we stick down to there, it's burning
your skin ever so gently, and then that causes the
growth of abnormal cells, which then lends to skin cancers right,
and again, because it's your hand, it almost like a
freckle or something, you don't take it seriously until it
actually becomes a big deal. This can be negative. I'm
(34:37):
not trying to take anybody's manicures away, but it can
be mitigated by putting on sunscreen. And just like you
should put sunscreen on your whole body. And I talk
a lot about black and brown people. You need to
wear sunscreen. It's not just the white person thing, so
that's mentioned in the book, and just other little tips
(34:57):
and tricks like trying especially if you have dry skin,
if you don't want to be ashy. I think I
love the fact that I do talk about being ashy
in my book. The Real Body Manual is a guy
to not be ashy. And it's really fun to see
people get the information and take it and run with
it and be super proud of themselves for taking care
(35:20):
of their bodies. Because one shoe can take care of
your body, so much else falls into place. Right.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
It is truly empowering to be able to meet whatever
body changes you have with curiosity, but the comfort of
knowing that you can figure out what it means, you
can know you're not alone, and you can understand that
millions and millions and millions of people are experiencing the
same thing, and you can see pictures. Pictures are important,
(35:50):
very important.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Totally, and even small things like in an advertise school.
Let's say an advertise school has two hundred and fifty
people in it, right, just thinking about it from the
of if your uvrethra, for example, is not directly in
the center of your glands, if you're a person with
the penis, you're not the only one. One or two
(36:11):
of y'all at that school are going to have this issue,
and it's important that you make an appointment with the
doctor and maybe get it checked out to ensure that
there are no issues that will happen with your fertility
or comfort. Down to the line that these are not
things that people do. Sometimes people are just dealing with
it and they're just feeling bad and there's nothing to
feel bad about it. Sunken chests in cis gender males,
(36:35):
for example, it's the most common chest problem or issue
that people with penises deal with, but it's never really
talked about, and it's important just to like just go
to the doctor to say, hey, this is what I have.
Just let's make sure there's nothing going on with my ribs,
nothing going off with my heart, because I'm trying to
live my best life. Because when you are a teen
and tween, as you know as a mom and as
(36:58):
those of us listening, it's easy, it's much easier to
start getting into routine of caring for the quirks that
make you you. But if you're shrouded in shane, and
if you're feeling bad about yourself and you don't want
to talk about it, then what happens is you turn thirty,
stuff starts going wrong, and things that could have been
mitigated years ago with just a little bit of conversation
(37:18):
in TLC are now a huge exacerbated problem. I don't
want that for my future generation with.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
My kids, right right right, So Nancy, tell me what's
your favorite chapter or what's your favorite part of this book.
I know you're proud of it. You absolutely should be.
It is it's monumental. It's such a labor, a labor
of love, and a lot of hard work went into it.
But what's your favorite part?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I think, oh, I love all of them, but I
love the Bladders and Bowels chapter because I always joke.
I've never met a bodily fluid I didn't like talking about.
And I think that when people get a book like this,
I thought, there's there's a toilet on the cover, because
(38:03):
you know, you've got reproduction, you've got you know, body
image and strength, You've got all these things right, And
I wanted to toilet because I think we need to
talk more about these issues, because we are realizing just
how much of our health is connected to gut health, right,
and a large swath, A large swath. I'm making this
up right now, but it's at least thirty percent of
(38:26):
children are constipated chronically, the one that they're not getting
a fiber in their diet to the point where they
don't even realize they're constipated. They think it's normal to
hurt when you're using the restroom. They definitely aren't talking
to their parents about it, right, and parents are I'm saying, hey,
twelve year old, how's your poop? You know? And so
I really think it's important for them to be able
(38:47):
to understand laxatives or not an answer. Long term, you
need to know what diarrhega is. What is There's a
whole explanation of the scale of what a healthy poop
looks like, and what unhealthy wad diarrya looks like, and
what constipation looks like, how to avoid it, fibrous foods,
what is just constipation? And what actually could be like
(39:09):
a chronic illness like IBS celiac, Because again, these are
not one off. Large swaths of individuals have these issues.
And when you're a kid, and when you're a teen
and tween, sometimes they can just get blown away like
oh yeah, because you're more resilient somehow. And again, then
(39:30):
you get to college or you get beyond, and you
start trying to heal from decades of unnecessary neglect and abuse.
So I love The Bladders and Bowels because it's just
not in a lot of books, especially not to the
extent that it's in my book, and especially not to
the extent that it normalizes gut health for youth.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right right, No, really really important, Nancy. I'm going to
wrap it up here, but I have to tell you
how excited I am for you that this book is
out and that people have the opportunity unity parents listening,
every parent to put this on their shelves. People have
the opportunity to have this book as a ready resource
for when they have specific questions or when they really
(40:10):
just want to break the ice with their children. I mean,
some parents will just hand their children on the book
and say, here you are, here's some things to figure out.
But for parents that want to learn themselves and want
to know exactly what it is they're handing to their children,
definitely take a look through it. You will absolutely learn
something that you didn't know, and goodness knows, your children
are going to be so much the better for having
(40:32):
all this information at their fingertips. So it's called the
Real Body Manual, your visual guide to health and wellness.
And as soon as this podcast is over, go to
however you buy your books and buy a copy. Nancy
read yet again a wonderful guest. Thank you so much
for joining us, and thank you for writing this great book.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Oh, thank you. I appreciate you, Queen mom.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation that you'll come
back for more. Please subscribe, rate and review where you
find your podcasts, and tell your friends. For more parenting
info and advice, please check out the ground Control Parenting
website at wwwgroundcontrol parenting dot com. You can also find
us on Facebook and Instagram at Ground Control Parenting and
on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis. Until the next time,
(41:25):
take care and thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. I am
so excited to welcome back to the podcast today's guest
best selling author Nancy Read Yay.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Nancy's back.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
And today, in an episode geared especially for parents of
tweens and teens, we're going to talk about her latest book,
which has just been released, called The Real Body Manual,
Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness. And this is
a groundbreaking photographic manual that tackles everything, yes, everything a
young person needs to know about their body in a
(00:49):
judgment free and gender neutral way. Nancy is an award
winning on air host, a New York Times and USA
best selling author, a two time Mom's Choice Award winner,
an NAACP Image Award nominee for Outstanding Literary Work, and
a GLAD Media Award nominee for Outstanding Digital Journalism. She
is also the author, as dedicated GCP listeners will know
(01:10):
of The Real Santa, which celebrates Black Santa and Bedtime Bonnet,
a celebration of black hair and haircare rituals, both of
which she's talked about during our previous podcast together. She
is also the creator and host of the streaming podcast Mompreneurs,
which is in its third season and which I was
a guest on, and I'll put how you can find
that episode in the show notes for this episode. Nancy
(01:33):
holds an honors degree in Women's studies from Harvard University,
and she and her delightful husband rupak Tin have two children,
August who is thirteen and Rupali, who is ten. Welcome
back to ground Control Parenting, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you, Oh my goodness, I'm excited for round three.
I'm honored.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yes, we are excited to have you here for round three.
It's such a treat to have you back. And today
you are bringing your expertise on everything a tween and
teen need to know about their bodies and how parents
can help their kids make sense of it all with
the help of your books. So let's get started.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
There's a pattern here because the first time I came on,
I was talking about hair care for toddlers. Right with
my daughter. I wanted her to start wearing her Bonnet,
and then they got older and really into Santa. So
we talked about Santa and representation because my son was
knee deep in Santa in early elementary school, and now
(02:28):
I had the teen in tween and we are knee
deep in puberty, miles from Bonnets and Santa.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Let me tell you, and how fortunate for all of
us that you have applied your considerable literary skills to
chronicle all along the way things that parents need to know.
And boy, with this book, you have done an amazing job.
So first, let's talk about what you kind of alluded
to it already, But what led you to write a
(02:55):
book all about a real body manual about helping kids
have better understandings of how their bodies work.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Writing has always been kind of a therapy for me.
It's a healing process because whatever stress or anxiety I
have in here, it doesn't it just sits in there,
and then I have to get it out. And I
love to journal. I love to write, and over the years,
these feelings, these thoughts, these concerns and fears and the
(03:23):
ways I work on them turned into my books. Like
each book I've written correlates to a direct issue that
I myself have had to deal with personally or I
have seen my children dealing with. And I love that.
I love writing nonfiction because it's an opportunity to help
other people grow and learn just like I have. And so,
(03:45):
you know, I started talking about my own body, and
then I started talking about my children's hair, my children's
love of Santa, And now we are in my children's puberty,
which I'm sure you know, Carol, is very different than
the you and I went through way.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's different in so many ways. In one really good
and important way, it's more talked about. It's more discussed. Actually,
I think it's a good and important way, as long
as it's discussed responsibly. I have to add to that
that it's discussed a lot, and maybe not always so responsibly.
So I'm glad that you are taking the time and
doing the research to present a responsible look at how
(04:27):
our children should be taking a look at their bodies
and feeling how they can feel about the way that
they are maturing. It's such a scary thing, this puberty thing.
I mean, what I do remember is that it was
foreign feeling and scary, And so did you did you
find it scary.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
When you were found it very scary when I was
going to puberty. There were no role models, there was
no Instagram, there were no social media. There is no
one who looked like me. There was the rumor mill
and shame and fear. And for me, eradicating shame and
fear in my own life, in the life of other people,
and in particular in the life of my children has
(05:04):
been exceptionally important. And one thing that I do in
The Real Body Manual and most of my other nonfiction
books is I correlate accessible research, responsible as you say,
information with photographs because this generation, in particular is just
bombarded with images, air brushed images. I mean, this has
(05:26):
been ongoing for twenty years, but it's come to a
big front because these kids just don't even know what's real,
what's AI at this point, and what's natural, what is enhanced,
and what's healthy and what's not. So I really wanted
to give my kids and their friends and teens and
(05:48):
tweens around the world a resource that relates to the
issues that they have and provides photographic evidence of what
is and isn't something they should become learned about. And
more often than not, the issue is not anything you
need to be concerned about. You just don't know that.
I know, growing up, I thought my body was super weird,
(06:08):
super stinky, super strange. Something's wrong with me, and kind
to find out over the years, I was stressed out
about a lot of nothing, but some things I wasn't
stressed out about. I should have been, like my periods
being super heavy.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
And then don't even get me started on the fact
that poor boys or people who identify as boys, and
in particular people with penises, very little is talked about
when it comes to their purest experience. So that's where
the real body manual comes in.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You know, it's so interesting and listen thinking as you're
talking that so much of parenting comes from we draw
so much on our own experience to parent. There is
no manual for parenting that everyone can follow. And so
many of us grew up in an era where things
weren't discussed a lot, and then even if they were,
we grew up with our own feeling about our own body.
(06:58):
And as you said, sometimes it's shames, sometimes it's concerned,
sometimes it's just bewilderment. And then we have children and
we don't think about how the way that we have
reacted to our body impacts the way we talk to
them about theirs. Certainly in the era in which I
grew up, you didn't talk about things. You really didn't.
It was just better not to you figure it out.
You didn't, No one talked to you ahead of time.
(07:21):
You was kind of a need to know basis, and
the need to know was born of you getting to
the panic stage and having to say something. So it's really,
it is really so much better now that we're talking
about things. We're acknowledging that parts of what parts of
our body look like, because there's so much that we
(07:41):
didn't as we grew up. Certainly people in my generation
grew up, we weren't encouraged to think about that, and
that definitely has impacted the way that we have talked
to our children about it. You know, I want to
ask you, though, one of the things that really has
struck me in the creation of your book now, and
particularly as you said, it's in a world where there's so
much visual representation that may or may not be accurate,
(08:04):
and in many instances it's not. There's also correlated to
this sort of the advent of social media, is this
terrible decline in mental health. I mean, there's a mental
health crisis among adolescents, and is you're thinking that perhaps
if they know a little bit more about what's going on,
that could ease that crisis.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Well, the mental health crisis is multifaested and definitely, body
positivity and what I like to call physical awareness is
part and parcel in helping one to have a healthy
mindset about one's health and one's abilities, and one's capacity
and one's worth in life. Right. And what I do
find is a lot of people don't grow up with
(08:47):
a firm understanding of how their body works, and they
don't have a lot of resources to turn to because
a lot of people don't feel comfortable talking to their parents.
And it's not just because their parents are are not
people they want to talk to. Sometimes the parents don't
have good information on what is and isn't normal. Right.
(09:07):
So with the Real Body Manual, it's kind of a
book for the whole family. I like to say it's
a great book for a parent to read first, and
as the kids starts having questions or it's a great
opportunity for you to ask them questions about what's in
the book. Right. So I think it's important that we
perhaps acknowledge that boys in particular are having a lot
(09:31):
of concerns about their penis size, and I don't think
people are talking to them enough about that. So if
you've got a person with a penis in your household,
I think it's a fair thing to incorporate conversations like, hey,
just checking in to make sure that everything's okay. Like,
I know you're going through puberty, there might be some
changes in particular with your genitalia, and I just want
(09:52):
you to know that, like, I have a resource and
I've always open to talk to you if you need
to go to the doctor, that's okay. And just saying
some like that can take years of mental anguish off
of a person's mind, just knowing that I'm not weird
for having these concerns, I'm not insane for being incessantly
(10:13):
thinking about these things. And we've gotten a lot better
in particular about menstruation, but there's miles to go we
need to improve, in particular in the black and brown community,
when mental health issues are still stigmatized and it's all
wrapped up. It's wrapped up in our skin, it's wrapped
up in our mental health, it's wrapped up in our diet,
it's wrapped up in the way our body works. So
(10:35):
I'm proud of this book because I think it offers
an opportunity to break open a lot of taboo issues,
a lot of confusing issues, and hopefully carve out a
little bit. I can't control the whole world. I can't
control mental health at large, but I can help in
tiny ways with the aspect of body positivity.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Absolutely, this is a family book and parents can use
it as they see fit. And it makes sense to me,
having looked at this great book and read through it,
that parents of children who are just beginning puberty might
want to have the book on their shelves and read
it first themselves and note the parts that make them
comfortable and uncomfortable to discuss, because you have such a
(11:20):
familial and certainly wise but thoughtful way of discussing all
the issues in the book, and a parent can take
a page, literally a page from you and use your
language or at least get comfortable with talking about it
by reading it first before they show. And they could
decide because there are lots of pictures, they could decide
(11:41):
what pictures they want to share when issues come up
you know, we grew up. I grew up hearing it's
private parts, it's your privates. I mean, you don't talk
about it because it's private. You know, you can't show
your pri It's all very much. You whispered about things.
I mean, even menstruation. When I was growing up, it
was sort of not what you discussed and open. And
(12:02):
that's not the way the world works, and it's not
the way the world should work. And so how refreshing
and enlightening it was for me to scroll through this
book and see how you tackle all these different subjects
like breasts and breast size and bra size. And one
of the things is, you know, it's very funny. One
of the things I'm going to ask you a little
(12:22):
in a minute about how you did your research and
all the medical vetting. But one of the things you
do that I thought was so helpful is you have
a whole section on skin and you talk about various
skin ailments. And whenever I look up a skin ailment
on Google, I always brace myself because you go to
images and they're going to be twenty five pictures of
really awful renditions of whatever this ailment is. And you
(12:45):
very thoughtfully will give a picture of let's say, ezema
or some acne, different kinds of acne, and you thoughtfully
talk about how different what you should do about different
kinds of acne, and they're very There are pictures that
show you what it looks like. It's realistic, but you're
not like it's not. You don't have to put your
hands over your eyes.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And there's very little shock value. Okay, there's there's some
shock value in the book because it is a photographic
book for the entire body. But in the right context,
it is just the body. And just like with anything,
the more you absorb it, the more you look at it,
the less shocking it is. Because shock is often just
fear right, and the more comfortable a person gets with
(13:23):
looking at different parts of the body, the better off
they are. One of the things I love you mentioned
the skin chapter is I show what an eyestyle looks
like because I don't know, I don't know the first
time any of us have ever woken up and there's
a bulging thing on one's eye, it's terrifying, like going, why,
what's happening? How do I get a pample on my eye?
And so one of my early readers they read, They're like, oh,
(13:45):
I had one of those. Oh my gosh, I didn't
know this is what caused it. Dia Ya is just
the type of folliculitis. Even knowing what the word folliculitis
means makes a person more comfortable with the idea of
what razor bumps are versus razor burn, versus genital folliculitis,
versus ey stys, of all these different things. Understanding the
difference between an Eyesty award and a skin tag, because
(14:08):
these are issues we all deal with, and we need
to know when to actually go to the dermatologists, to
even know to go to the dermatologists, and when to
just leave it alone. And that's what I really like
about this book, and in particular, one of the aspects
of the skin chapter that I'm very proud of is
the fact that often in a book, if there are pictures,
and often there are not pictures, the pictures are simply
(14:30):
of one ethnicity, and that ethnicity is generally Caucasian, and
mostly because it's very difficult in the past to give
stock footage of different ethnicities and the skin issues thanks
to extreme work by a number of dermatologists, in particular
but doctors overall to gain photos of different ethnicities with
(14:53):
different skin issues. I was able to incorporate people of
color with excellent, people of color with freck, people of
color with all these types of issues, because when we
have herpes, it looks different than when a Caucasian person
as herpes, and we all need to know what these
issues look like so we can avoid them.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Absolutely. I really appreciated that you had different shades of
people and demonstrated what things look like on different shades
of people. And you even you showed hyper pigmentation and
the underarm I mean, which is when a brown person
which I've seen, I have family, you know it is.
But it's like, this is so good because people have
this and you don't know whether it's sort of life
(15:36):
or whether it's something you know, yeah, right exactly, and
so it is you really take the time to spend
so many different issues that will come up could come up,
and it's not just you do devote a lot of
time to genitalia, body parts, you know, focusing on sexual orientation,
(15:58):
sexual questions, which is really good because this is what
tweens and particularly teens need to know about. But you
also really span the whole spectrum of things that you
should think about when you're in Pubia. You mentioned being stinky.
I mean, I can't tell you how many parents have
talked to me about how tough it is to talk
to their children about stinkiness, because it gets you know,
(16:21):
if you're a little smelly. It's very as a parent,
it's hard to say that to your child without them
feeling defensive, upset, angry, you know, sort of in denial
or whatever. But when you describe sort of what's happening
and how it's happening and what you can do to
manage it. I mean, I can just see parents, like
perhaps even taking pictures of or photocopying segments of the book,
(16:43):
that they just want a hand over to their children,
even if they can't have the conversation. It's like here,
read this.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, it makes me feel better. I specifically included what
I refer to as the bathing blueprint in the book
because I think a lot of people aren't taught how
to wash their bike, even small things. As you start
from the top to the bottom, your body gets dirtier
as you go down, so you want to stop with
your face. You want to get behind your ears, you
want to do your neck, you're under armsure and also
(17:11):
understanding the folds of your genitalia to get in there.
A lot of people are not taught. This sounds like
it could not be true, but it's very true. Many
people are not taught to actually wash and scrub carefully
their anus. They are taught so much shame about their
bodies that they do not actually wash their bodies properly,
which leads to a whole host of problems, not least
(17:33):
of all discomfort. Right, So, normalizing washing from head to toe,
including your legs, including between your toes, helps a lot
with what we see a lot of people just floundering
about people who are uncircumcised. Often they do not get
the lessons they need to know about pulling back their
(17:55):
foreskin to actually wash their penis and what smegma is megma?
What is magma? What's a disease? Like? How do you
know the difference? And I'm really proud of the fact that, yes,
this is a difficult topic, but it's important that we
cover it.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
And so when the Real Body Manual does and I
talk about all kinds of things like there's the body
skin and Facial Skin chapter there's the head hair and
body hair chapter, chest and breast, bladders and bowels.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Which I'm proud of, Carol, because very few books really
have a whole chapter devoted to gastro But in our
day and age, where more and more kids are being
diagnosed with celiac ibs, food sensitivities, constipation, I felt it
was really important that we get into the nitty gritty
and so yes, while yes, genitalia and sex, gender and
(18:42):
sexual health and self help and self care are huge
parts of it too, there's the gamuth we are as
a whole need to care for ourselves inside and out,
top to bottom, and this book offers a conversation starter
and some advice and medically vetted in from on how
to do just that.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. And I actually want to ask you about
the medical vetting of it. It is so comprehensive. There's
so much information here. Can you tell me about first
of all, how you decided what to include and exclude,
and then how you were able to vet all this
information and present it so comprehensively.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yes? So okay, Well, so of this book, I want
to say that like at least a fourth of it
are my sources, so you know that the advice and
the information is not just coming from Nancy's head, which
my head is great, but it's coming from verified sources.
And then on top of that, I hired experts in
(19:44):
each field. I hired a pediatric gastro, I hired a
renowned dermatologist. I hired multiple gynecologists. I hired two urologists.
I hired a psychotherapist, I hired a psychiatrist, I hired
a psychologist, all to go through the whole book and
the pieces that they are in, particularly experts in to
(20:06):
make sure that I was giving the most modern, the
most accurate, the most inclusive advice that I possibly could.
And then on top of that, I had a couple
of pediatricians read it from top to bottom, as well
as a few gender experts, as well as quite a
few regular people as as my sensitivity readers. Because one
of the things that I love about the Real Body
(20:28):
Manual is this is not just a book for one individual.
This is a book because we are a melting pot
not just of ethnicity, but of human natures. And when
you read in this book and you learn about what
an intersex person is, which is at least the number
of people who have green eyes in America are about
(20:49):
the same number of people who are intersex, meaning born
with like we saw with the Olympics right with not
cut and dry male or female, chromosomal or genetic materials. Right.
And we need to be aware of that. We need
to be careful to understand who everyone in our society is,
(21:09):
how we treat them, and how we talk about them.
So this is not just an opportunity to learn about
your own body, but also the body is of all
of the people in your world, your friends, your family,
your partners.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And note to parents, the chapter on sexuality and gender differences.
It's so instructive for so many parents who know that
they need to know about all of this, but don't
know who to ask, don't want to feel dumb, don't
want to make mistakes, don't want to misspeak. If you
really lay it out so well and so clearly so
(21:47):
that you do all when I was reading through us, like, oh,
she answers all the questions I hear all the time
about people wondering, you know, what does this mean? Why
do I have to say they or whatever? People say
that are older and are not in the midst of
and not actively living in the world where people do
focus on these issues. So it's really helpful. I say
(22:09):
this to say that parents who children are grown and
flown would still do well to take a look at
this book, and you will absolutely learn something. For sure,
you might learn more than you think.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Well, you know, it is the modern and healthy way
to address everyone. We kind of grew up with you
conform to the status quo, and that leaves behind a
lot of people and lembs to a lot of the
mental health stigmas that we are facing as a community
and as a country at large. Right. Why my book
(22:43):
is so comprehensive is because the more I wrote, the
more I realized I didn't know, and the more I
saw support and understanding, and the more I realized how
important it was to synthesize the world we live in
for those individual Jules who might not be aware yet.
(23:04):
But it's very important in all of our households that
we take seriously and with care, the importance of learning
what people are going through, what your family might be
going through, what and honestly you might be going through
one day. So I was really proud of the effort
(23:24):
I went through to ensure that everything was squeaky clean,
that the information provided might be new to you, but
it's been in the world for some time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And the tone of this book is I liking it
to sort of a really educated, well educated big sister.
It's loving, it's thoughtful, but it's just telling the truth.
It's not sort of sugarcoating anything or calling anything a
cute name or a pet name. You're basically like, here
are several pictures of penises. They all look different. You know,
(23:59):
understand that not everyone looks the same. You know, Yes,
you can have a woman, a can have a chest
that's for your breast are two different sizes. It's not crazy,
I mean, but it's so that the tone is very compassionate.
And did it how did you find this voice? I mean,
did you have to? Was it through research and finding
(24:20):
that this voice wasn't around so much? Or was it
basically you just saying this is how I talk, and
I just want to talk to everybody this way.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, this is how I talk. You know me, Carol,
I'm pretty much a plain talker. I'll just like say it,
and I'll say it the way I say it with
a smile in my face, you know, like yes, you know,
half a voice. Will probably develop some sort of small
breast during puberty at some point because of all foremones.
I find that's easier and more palatable than skirting around
the issue. One thing that I try, and we've talked
(24:47):
about this before in my parenting, I try to be
very when it comes to stuff like this, But when
it comes to the body, may I take the emotion out.
I try to just make it a positive conversation of education.
We will not be having pity parties. Whatever's going on
with us. We are just seeking the truth and to
make it the best case ever. In fact, when I
(25:08):
talk about puberty with my kids, actually you know, I'm
very careful about the conversation and how I present it.
That's kind of how it is with the real body manual.
When I talk about these changes, oftentimes they are discussed
with trepidation or fear, or concern or loss. I look
at this phase of figuring out who you are and
(25:31):
learning about your body. It's like the best stake it
ever because when you're entering puberty, let's say like you
start this journey like ten eleven, twelve, and as we
know it goes to like twenty five. You know that's amazing.
That's a period of your life where I tell my kids,
your only goal right now is to be a good human,
to do well in school, and to figure out your body,
(25:52):
to take care of yourself, to learn what you like
and don't like, to learn your style, to learn who
you are. And at this period of your life, not
just do you have this book and other books I've
written and other books other people have written. You have
all the resources available to you because everyone wants to
help you. I think there's no reason to be upset
about going through puberty. There's no reason to be upset
(26:13):
about learning about your body and learning about how to
take care of yourself and learning about differences. You should
be celebrating because it's exciting to have this time. And
then of course I was throwing because mommy is going
through what we call second puberty, which is one of us,
and it's not as easy. So if you want to
(26:34):
save some pity, pity for your mom because I have
to do all this and pay bills and figure it
out myself. Oh you have to do the show up
and figure out what face wash. And you want to wear,
and I think by making it kind of silly like that,
like my daughter, who's you know, in the throes of
it all, like first day of school, they were talking
(26:56):
about who got their period, who didn't get their period,
and then she said to me, she was like, but
I just remember this is my best decade because I'm
just like figuring out if I want to use pets,
if I want to use a period underwear. I'm just like,
guess girl, just tell me what you want, I will
get it for you. I want a mom to tell
me how to deal with my hot flashes, miss and
(27:18):
missing periods. I wanted the best decade. It's dead. We're
over here talking about in the corners, like freaking out,
well all this stuff, so I digress. So the tone
comes from who I am is how I've always written
my books. My non finish chin books are always very
informative and a little flippant, and because life is too short,
this is we have real problems, but learning about your
(27:39):
body should not be one of them.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And one of one of the real services you provide
in this book. In addition to telling people things about
their body that they should know and they don't and
giving parents a guide to discuss things about their children's
bodies that they may not be comfortable. First of all,
they may not know to come up with all the information,
and even if they did, they may not be comfortable
(28:01):
discussing it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So you give us a tone.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You also give some really practical and good information. I
mean there's a whole section on what different doctors expertises are.
I mean, just a list of this person does this,
this person does this, so that children can know from
an early age that if you have some issue, there
are people with a very specific expertise who you can
go to who can tell you pretty quickly whether this
(28:24):
is something that is something you should worry about or
not at all. And so many of us grew up
knowing there was a doctor. I mean, you had a doctor,
but that was pretty much it. And it wasn't until
there was some crisis where you knew there were other doctors.
But just knowing that they're all leader's eye doctor and
what that's called, and there's the person that helps you
(28:44):
if you have stomach aches and all, it's very valuable information.
I want to impress upon parents who are listening that
you definitely have to go out and get this book
for your own sake, even if you decide that you
don't want to hand it over to your child. And
I only say that because it's all the subjects are
handed with, handled with great candor, with specificity, and smart.
(29:07):
It's smartest. Heck, as Nancy said, they're pictures. There are
things that might even make parents pause because how many
parents have seen pictures of ten penises in a book?
I mean maybe they have, maybe they haven't. But it's
really important that you put whatever feelings you may have
about that as a concept away and just put on
your parenting hat, because you are doing your children and
(29:29):
yourself a real service by just knowing this stuff or
knowing where to find out about this stuff. I mean,
knowledge is truly power when it comes to health and
body issues. I mean it's powerful to be able to
know where to go to help you to solve for
any issues. It's powerful in terms of knowing where to
go if you have any questions, but also the peace
(29:50):
of mind in knowing that if there's something that you're
worried about, you can just pick up this book and
see if it's in there. And if it's in there,
you're going to have practical answers. It's going to be
thoughtfully rich. So I tell this to say that parents,
it's definitely worth getting and putting it on your shelf.
You know, there was a book years ago called Our
Bodies Ourselves which did this for women, and it talked
(30:10):
a lot about women's issues that had never been talked
about before. And there's been a real desert of this
kind of book until now. And now it's even better
because it's all about everybody.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well, Our Bodies Ourselves actually still kicking in around some
beautiful book. It is also for all genders. And actually
the co founder of Our Bodies Ourselves, Juniorsigian Blurned this
book is a wonderful supporter. She's a wonderful human being
and is still championing the fight for human rights at large.
And so yes, So the difference is mine has photos,
(30:43):
which is a very difficult task. Being able to do
a photographic book is not easy, but I feel it's
very important because we are in a world right now
where there's so much information, a lot of it is
not good. A lot of people do not know the
names for their own body parts. We have had slightly
more of a conversation about this when it comes to volvas,
(31:05):
but when it comes to like a lot of boys
don't even know what a testicle is, a lot of
people with penises cannot describe their own parts. One of
the gynecologists that reviewed the book actually said this will
be so helpful with college kids who often are in
relationships for the first time and have no idea what
(31:25):
is going on with their body or the other person's body.
And I think that's very important. So and it's also
important to note that, yes, there are two hundred pictures
in the book about give or take maybe like I
don't know, ten percent of them are like ah, like
budget vulvas, penises, but they're all very very medically presented. Right.
(31:46):
You do have a picture of gaynomestsia, for example, which
is when a boy develops briss in his teenage years
from foremones, not because they're not this gender, but because
it's a very common thing it happens to a lot
of voys. You have pictures of inverted nos. But again
you also have pictures of types of contraceptions, so you
understand what the difference is between a condom, an IUD,
(32:08):
a diaphragm, the birth control pill. You as we mentioned before,
we have pictures of all kinds of skin issues, hyperpigmentation,
I size, skin tags, what skin cancer looks like. You
have pictures of mail cancer, which is a very specific
type of skin cancer that's very prevalent in the black
and brown community, more so than other communities. And because
it just looks like a bruise, it often goes unnoticed.
(32:31):
You can't present these things in illustrations. We are not
in an illustrated world. To pretend to be so is
naive and does a disservice to the people we're raising
to become our leaders. And I personally don't think you
can lead much of anything if you don't know the
names of your body. And I think we're seeing kind
(32:52):
of what happens when we shave that stuff under the
brood and gets hope it goes away. It doesn't go away,
It festers and becomes worse.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Right, No, absolutely, And I will also say that in
addition to all of these really important facts and useful information,
they're also some kind of fun and interesting facts. I mean,
fun is probably not the right word, but really interesting
things that I didn't know. I mean, for example, you
say that you tell us that hot showers, which we
all love a good hot shower. I love a hot shower.
(33:22):
They feel great, but they're not always great for your skin.
I mean, who knew? And then this was when I
really didn't know. And that is that the UV light
that you used to cure gel manicures, those UV lights
have been linked to skin cancer, which I never heard.
But you also say, I mean before everybody just never
goes to a nail place again, that you can if
(33:44):
you put suntan lotion on your hands, you can protect
your hands against the harmful elements of the UV rays.
I mean, who knew.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, it's fascinating. So I am excited for this book
to enter the world because it is tell you what's
going on with your body. It gives you opportunities to
protect and take care of yourself. Right, So I only
do my own nails now after I figured this out,
because we're seeing an increase in skin cancer and communities,
especially black and brown communities, who normally do not suffer
(34:14):
from skin cancers much. Because the more you get your
nails done then we stick down to there, it's burning
your skin ever so gently, and then that causes the
growth of abnormal cells, which then lends to skin cancers right,
and again, because it's your hand, it almost like a
freckle or something, you don't take it seriously until it
actually becomes a big deal. This can be negative. I'm
(34:37):
not trying to take anybody's manicures away, but it can
be mitigated by putting on sunscreen. And just like you
should put sunscreen on your whole body. And I talk
a lot about black and brown people. You need to
wear sunscreen. It's not just the white person thing, so
that's mentioned in the book, and just other little tips
(34:57):
and tricks like trying especially if you have dry skin,
if you don't want to be ashy. I think I
love the fact that I do talk about being ashy
in my book. The Real Body Manual is a guy
to not be ashy. And it's really fun to see
people get the information and take it and run with
it and be super proud of themselves for taking care
(35:20):
of their bodies. Because one shoe can take care of
your body, so much else falls into place. Right.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
It is truly empowering to be able to meet whatever
body changes you have with curiosity, but the comfort of
knowing that you can figure out what it means, you
can know you're not alone, and you can understand that
millions and millions and millions of people are experiencing the
same thing, and you can see pictures. Pictures are important,
(35:50):
very important.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Totally, and even small things like in an advertise school.
Let's say an advertise school has two hundred and fifty
people in it, right, just thinking about it from the
of if your uvrethra, for example, is not directly in
the center of your glands, if you're a person with
the penis, you're not the only one. One or two
(36:11):
of y'all at that school are going to have this issue,
and it's important that you make an appointment with the
doctor and maybe get it checked out to ensure that
there are no issues that will happen with your fertility
or comfort. Down to the line that these are not
things that people do. Sometimes people are just dealing with
it and they're just feeling bad and there's nothing to
feel bad about it. Sunken chests in cis gender males,
(36:35):
for example, it's the most common chest problem or issue
that people with penises deal with, but it's never really
talked about, and it's important just to like just go
to the doctor to say, hey, this is what I have.
Just let's make sure there's nothing going on with my ribs,
nothing going off with my heart, because I'm trying to
live my best life. Because when you are a teen
and tween, as you know as a mom and as
(36:58):
those of us listening, it's easy, it's much easier to
start getting into routine of caring for the quirks that
make you you. But if you're shrouded in shane, and
if you're feeling bad about yourself and you don't want
to talk about it, then what happens is you turn thirty,
stuff starts going wrong, and things that could have been
mitigated years ago with just a little bit of conversation
(37:18):
in TLC are now a huge exacerbated problem. I don't
want that for my future generation with.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
My kids, right right right, So Nancy, tell me what's
your favorite chapter or what's your favorite part of this book.
I know you're proud of it. You absolutely should be.
It is it's monumental. It's such a labor, a labor
of love, and a lot of hard work went into it.
But what's your favorite part?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I think, oh, I love all of them, but I
love the Bladders and Bowels chapter because I always joke.
I've never met a bodily fluid I didn't like talking about.
And I think that when people get a book like this,
I thought, there's there's a toilet on the cover, because
(38:03):
you know, you've got reproduction, you've got you know, body
image and strength, You've got all these things right, And
I wanted to toilet because I think we need to
talk more about these issues, because we are realizing just
how much of our health is connected to gut health, right,
and a large swath, A large swath. I'm making this
up right now, but it's at least thirty percent of
(38:26):
children are constipated chronically, the one that they're not getting
a fiber in their diet to the point where they
don't even realize they're constipated. They think it's normal to
hurt when you're using the restroom. They definitely aren't talking
to their parents about it, right, and parents are I'm saying, hey,
twelve year old, how's your poop? You know? And so
I really think it's important for them to be able
(38:47):
to understand laxatives or not an answer. Long term, you
need to know what diarrhega is. What is There's a
whole explanation of the scale of what a healthy poop
looks like, and what unhealthy wad diarrya looks like, and
what constipation looks like, how to avoid it, fibrous foods,
what is just constipation? And what actually could be like
(39:09):
a chronic illness like IBS celiac, Because again, these are
not one off. Large swaths of individuals have these issues.
And when you're a kid, and when you're a teen
and tween, sometimes they can just get blown away like
oh yeah, because you're more resilient somehow. And again, then
(39:30):
you get to college or you get beyond, and you
start trying to heal from decades of unnecessary neglect and abuse.
So I love The Bladders and Bowels because it's just
not in a lot of books, especially not to the
extent that it's in my book, and especially not to
the extent that it normalizes gut health for youth.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right right, No, really really important, Nancy. I'm going to
wrap it up here, but I have to tell you
how excited I am for you that this book is
out and that people have the opportunity unity parents listening,
every parent to put this on their shelves. People have
the opportunity to have this book as a ready resource
for when they have specific questions or when they really
(40:10):
just want to break the ice with their children. I mean,
some parents will just hand their children on the book
and say, here you are, here's some things to figure out.
But for parents that want to learn themselves and want
to know exactly what it is they're handing to their children,
definitely take a look through it. You will absolutely learn
something that you didn't know, and goodness knows, your children
are going to be so much the better for having
(40:32):
all this information at their fingertips. So it's called the
Real Body Manual, your visual guide to health and wellness.
And as soon as this podcast is over, go to
however you buy your books and buy a copy. Nancy
read yet again a wonderful guest. Thank you so much
for joining us, and thank you for writing this great book.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Oh, thank you. I appreciate you, Queen mom.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation that you'll come
back for more. Please subscribe, rate and review where you
find your podcasts, and tell your friends. For more parenting
info and advice, please check out the ground Control Parenting
website at wwwgroundcontrol parenting dot com. You can also find
us on Facebook and Instagram at Ground Control Parenting and
on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis. Until the next time,
(41:25):
take care and thanks for listening.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
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