September 25, 2024 • 54 mins
Join Carol for an inspiring conversation with Brooke DeVard Ozaydinli, creator of the acclaimed Naked Beauty podcast. In this engaging episode, Brooke shares how she navigates the demands of parenting a toddler and entrepreneurship while making time for self-care. She offers invaluable insights on how to be an attentive, focused parent while preserving your sense of self. From beauty routines to the importance of family dinners, discover how Brooke manages it all with grace and authenticity. Don’t miss her practical tips for carving out meaningful 'me-time' in your busy schedule!
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control of Parenting, a blog
and now a podcast creative for parents raising black and
brown children. I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis.
In this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting
people about the job and the joy of parenting. I
am so happy to have Brooke Devard Oziden Lee join
me for today's conversation. Brook created her Wonderful Naked Beauty
(00:28):
podcast in twenty sixteen to uplift and tell the stories
of amazing women in beauty. After not being able to
find meaningful beauty conversations with women of color, Brooke set
out to create the podcast she really wanted to hear.
Naked Beauty has interviewed hundreds of amazing thought leaders on
their approach to beauty, self care, skincare, and wellness. The
(00:48):
podcast has been recognized by iHeartMedia as one of the
best beauty podcasts and has thousands of weekly listeners. Brook
started her career in London and has worked in marketing
and social media at global leading brands such as Ralph Lauren,
Instagram and FID Home. She is committed to pushing the
beauty conversation forward, advocating for women of color and breaking
down barriers to self care and wellness. Brooke grew up
(01:11):
in New York City and attended Stanford University. She lives
in Los Angeles with her husband and her three year
old son. Welcome to ground Control Parenting.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Brooke, so excited to be here. Thank you so much
for having me, Carol.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I am so happy that you could join me today.
You have created such important, interesting conversations that are really
resourceful in the world of beauty, and you also create
really engaging and informative social media. Included in this media
are delightful pictures of your family, your husband and your
adorable son, Mobby. And we have delighted in watching Mobby
(01:43):
grow on your Instagram posts. And speaking of growing, your
family is growing because you have a new baby on
the way.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So family's growing, bellies growing, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
And so I'm happy to talk with you about raising
a toddler, expanding the family, juggling life as a mom
and an entrepreneur, taking time to take care of yourself,
and the intersection of parenting and beauty. So let's get started. So, Brook,
let's start with a little bit of background on you.
But you were born in New York and raised in
New York And what part of New York did you
grow up?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
In? Manhattan on the Upper East Side? My brother and I,
my mom and dad. I was actually born in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
which a lot of people don't know, and we moved
then to New Orleans, but I moved to New York.
I think I was either six or seven years old
when I moved to New York City. So, for all
intents and purposes, you know, a New Yorker but not
(02:39):
born there.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Huh No, I've always thought of you guys as native
New Yorkers. I say, this is a proud native New Yorker.
You have that native new Yorker vibe. So to me,
that's a high capital of my mom.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, my mom is, you know, born in Harlem, so
she's definitely a native New Yorker. My dad is from
the South. But yeah, I loved growing up in New
York City. And it's so funny because now I live
here in Las Angelus after many, many, many years in
New York and people will say, oh, New York is great,
but it's no place to raise kids. And they say
that not knowing that I grew up as a child
(03:10):
in New York and I'm like, there are under eighteen
year olds on the island of Manhattan that are thriving.
You know, we don't like playing dumpsters for fun. But
it's just like this idea that like New York cities,
it's like fabulous city, but it's not for kids somehow,
which always confounds me when I hear that.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You know the same thing with me. As I said,
I'm native New Yorker. My mom was a native of
New Yorker, and so is her mom. So we've been
here for a long time. And my children who grew
up here all tell me that their friends that they've
met along the way who are not New Yorkers, are
incredulous that people at kids grow up in New York
And you're right, they perceive it to be either playing
(03:48):
at dumpster's or one long party that somehow you start
when you're five, you know. So let me just let's
just assure everybody out there, New York City, Manhattan even
can be a very calm and good place to raise children.
And as my mother did with me and I did
with my children, there are so many cultural things that
you can expose your children to. I mean, my mom
(04:12):
took me everywhere she was a teacher. In the summertimes,
we would go to every place, free places, you know,
just to Lincoln Center. They'd be outdoor concerts. I mean, yeah,
there's so much for kids to do.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So much programming, museums, playgrounds. It's like, we don't have backyards,
but we have Central Park, which is.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Right exactly exactly. It's a huge backyard. So so you're
growing up first in these other cities, but then in
New York City. Now, what kind of expectations in terms
of behavior and academics did your parents set out for you? Like,
(04:51):
how did they convey what they expected of you?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
That is such a good question. I never had to
be at to study. I was one of these people
that kind of like came home from school and studied myself.
I think there was a lot of self imposed pressure.
I went to spend very small, all girls private school,
pretty academically rigorous. But I have always been someone that
(05:17):
wanted to, you know, achieve top grades. In addition to
doing sports, I did swimming, I did track, So someone
that was very driven by accomplishment. And you know, I
think rather than my parents being like overly strict about
expectations in terms of academics. What they did do is
celebrate when I got you know, great grades. They would
(05:39):
be really celebratory of that fact and celebrate, you know,
not oh, you came in first place at the track meet,
but just coming to my track meets, coming to my
swimming meats, showing up. So I think their support and
celebration of the wins that I did have where there.
That was their subtle way of, you know, gently pushing
me towards that path of wanting to continue to accomplish
(06:01):
that way.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Oh oh, that's great. Showing up makes a big difference
to little one, So it's great they were able to
do that, especially because I know, I know your mom,
and I know you grew up with a mom who's
an accomplished corporate executive. He said, forty years of extensive
marketing leadership at large global brands. So she had a
big day job. I mean, sounds like she was showing
(06:22):
up along with your dad at things. But how conscious
were you of the demands of her day job and
on her time while you were growing up.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I really credit my mom with doing a great job
of explaining to my brother and I what her job
was and what she was doing week to week. When
she was at Verizon, she would bring home commercials. Back
when we had you know, DVDs, she would bring home
commercials and she would say, these are two different commercials
that were testing. They're going into focus groups this week.
I want you and your brother to watch them. Tell
(06:52):
me what your feedback is. What do you think about
which commercial works better? Which which spot do you think
is funnier? Which one would encourage you to get this
sell done. When she worked at Revlon, she would bring
home all of the you know, color cosmetics that she
was working on, all the different nail polishes. So when
there would be a school bake sale and all the
other mommies were there and my mom wasn't there, I
(07:13):
would know that she wasn't there because she had a
really important meeting. She had a really big agency briefing
that morning. So and I've taken that with me for
my son. I explained to my three year old MAVII,
what I do with this podcast. So I say, okay,
I have to fly to New York because you know
the podcast that mommy records in her office usually with
(07:34):
the microphone, I'm actually doing it in front of a
live audience and people are going to get to hear
me and see me do do the podcast. So I
try to now explain to him, even at a young age,
when I can't be around or when I can't be
with him, what I'm doing and that it makes me
happy and that it brings me joy. So I think
because my mom always explained to us what she was doing,
(07:54):
we felt very in tune with what was happening in
her work. It didn't feel like, you know, like I
felt the sense of pride, you know, about the work
that she was doing and knowing that she was doing
this work that made her so happy.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
And how cool that your mom's job, which was in marketing,
I mean she was actually doing work you guys for
her own little focus group. Yes, so you were helping
her and you were also being both informed and entertained.
I mean, mom's job seemed fun if she got to
bring home things for you guys to look at and
weigh and on. So that's great. And you actually predicted
(08:29):
my next question, which was how much of the way
that you grew up and the way you were parented
has influenced the way that you were raising mob It
sounds like your explanation of what you're doing is one thing.
Are there any other ways that you see sort of
it being paid forward in your parenting?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yes, I'm sure. I'm actually curious to hear from you.
This was a big thing in your household. But family
dinner was always this like very sacred thing growing up.
No matter what, we would all sit down and have
dinner together. I think it was like seven seven o'clock. Yes,
we would all sit down. You know, everyone's coming from
the office, My parents were coming from the office. We
would stop all of everything we had going on after school.
(09:10):
No one's allowed to answer the phone. We would sit
down and have dinner together. And that is something that
my husband and I try really, really really hard to prioritize,
even with Mavi. I have some friends that, you know,
their toddlers eat at like six o'clock and then they eat,
you know, they're like chicken fingers, you know, like kids
(09:32):
adults eat, you know, wants a child's asleep. But we
have really, really since he was, you know, two years old,
tried to always do meal times together. We always eat
the same thing, which is one of the reasons why
I think he has such an extensive palate because he
eats what we eat. There's no you know, separate meal
toddler meal for him, and we just really try to
(09:53):
prioritize sitting down and having family dinner and talking to
each other about our days. And that's something that I
absolutely observed from my family growing up as just a
really important and sacred part of the day.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
That sounds really lovely now. When my children were really young,
they ate earlier, but we did try to gather around
the dinner table even if they were done eating, to
just have a moment when everyone was home. Because I
always worked from home, but my husband worked in an
office and so he would get home later, but we
would always try to grab that time, certainly during the
(10:28):
week and on the weekends. Definitely we prioritize it. What's
interesting is that now, I mean, my kids are in
their mid to late twenties and early thirties, and dinner
together now is even a greater priority. I mean, of course,
the occasions for it are few because they're all over
the place, but it's the best time to sit together now.
(10:50):
I was very fortunate in that my family was raised,
my children were raised in an error before smartphones. I
now talk a lot about, you know, not having phones
at dinner for family's younger children. But we always have
our phones because invariably there is something that we're gonna
have to check. I mean, there has to be our conversations.
There's a whole lot of Google that check that. So
(11:11):
we can't put our phones away. But there's no there's
no use the phone to communicate with other people when
we're all together. And kudos to you, I'll say this
because I wasn't able to do this. Kudos to you
for raising your son to eat what you eat. Because yes,
my eldest and we can laugh about this now because
she's now a gormand and eats everything, but had a
(11:32):
very specific palette and so it was for the longest
time we were not all eating the same thing.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So that most toddlers do. Most toddlers do have a
very specific palette. I think it's it's out of the
ordinary when he goes even on pladates or like we
you know, bring food around other like he's eating like
salmon and beats for dinner.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
This is what he likes to check. Plus to the
mom and the dad for that one, because that is rare,
very rare. Okay, So now you have this adorable three
year old toddler. And in a post that you wrote
around Mother's Day, you talked about your parenting goals for him,
and you said, and I'm quoting you, I hope to
(12:18):
teach my son the invaluable lesson of always being true
to himself at the age of three. I see the
purity and Mavie's self expression and creativity. My goal is
to nurture his individuality and encourage him to follow his
passions and intuition throughout his life. And this is the key.
I want to empower him to embrace his uniqueness with
confidence and authenticity. First of all, I thought that was
(12:39):
beautifully written and certainly for everybody. But here's my question
for you, because the concept of authenticity and embracing uniqueness
is a change from parenting of long ago, where the
theory was you sort of raised your child up with
certain explaining certain ways to think, and they could ultimately,
(13:04):
sort of, with education and experience, create their own. How
are you drawing the line between giving your child the
space to be his authentic self, that is, to sort
of be who he is, and then setting limits that
he needs to grow safely. And I would argue the
confidence that comes from feeling safe, you know what I'm saying.
(13:25):
I mean, I see a lot of parents are very
focused on letting their children. The authenticity of children means
that some parents shy away from more structure and are
more focused on letting the child operate the way they
want to. Is that how you see it?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yes, you're asking the question in such a delicate diplomatic way.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's the parents that are like, well, that's just how
they are, Like they're just going to beat trackers for dinner,
and they're going to go to whenever they want to,
and they're going to talk me any type of way
because that's their authentic self. So yes, I think that
like discipline and structure is still really important in like
nurturing their authentic selves. And I think I can think
(14:14):
of a very specific example around engaging with other people.
So you know, my son has probably authentic self when
someone says like, Hi, how are you? And it's also
funny when you when you see people that don't aren't
around toddlers often that try to engage with toddlers, it's
like they're not at the like how are you stage,
(14:34):
Like they're not They're not gonna like sit down and
tell you about their day.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
But I had to talk to.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Him about how to like greet people and how to
you know, when you go into someone's home, how to
introduce yourself, how to take off your shoes when you're
in someone's new house. You can't just like run in
with your you know, dirty little crocs all over their carpet.
So teaching teaching those things because they need us to
(15:00):
teach them those things. They don't learn that doesn't come
naturally to them, that's not part of their authentic being
to learn, like social codes and social codes are taught right,
like you are taught to ask to have a turn
at the playground if someone's playing with something that you
really want. You are taught to apologize to someone if
(15:23):
you accidentally hurt them. You know, that's not something that
comes to children authentically. So I always have to remind
myself with him, what do I have to do as mom?
And what's my husband have to do is dad? To
teach him how to operate in this world and how
to be polite and like have good manners, because I
don't think that doesn't come to kids naturally to do
(15:47):
those things. But they have to be taught to.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
No, absolutely, I would think that that kind of the
the interest in having a polite child is something that's
passed down. I mean, you know, I'm sure you were
raised to be polite, and I still think that is
a good value, even if it means you, for a
minute have to do something that you don't feel like doing.
So it's a good it's a good instruction for your children.
(16:13):
So yes, so here you are. You've got this adorable
three year old, and now you're going to have another baby.
I'm how I have to say that when I have
three children, and when I have my first and my
daughter was three when I had my second, I wondered
how I could possibly make room. That sounds so hokey,
(16:35):
but how I could make room in my heart for
another child? And the good news, I wondered, Yeah, yeah, no,
it is. The good news is you can I mean
have three. I have in my heart for the three
of them. Your heart expands to meet the needs. But
how are you thinking about welcoming the new baby and
(16:57):
how much Mavi's life is going to change that and
he doesn't know it yet.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yes, well, you know you just said something that reminded
me of some advice that I got that you're never
supposed to say the new baby in front of the
other child, which makes sense, right, like, oh, the new baby.
You know, it's just kind of like you're old news
the new baby. The new baby is coming. So like
even things like that, like being careful with your language,
(17:23):
you know, to not say things like that when the.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
New baby comes.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
But I always try to say say things like, oh,
like when your sibling comes, you know, like saying things
like that. And MAVII is very excited. We told him
when I was three months that he was going to
be a big brother, and you know, this is going
to be a new, big, fun responsibility, and he's already
(17:46):
been like, well, can I help do the bottle? And
also he's going to be four in September, so he's
now old enough to be able to like help out,
and he really understands what's happening in terms of moving
into this transition of being a big brother, and he's
like eager to help. So I'm excited that he's so
excited about it. We didn't know how he was going
to take the news, but he's like thrilled and really
(18:09):
excited to be a big brother and then I think
it's just about for me. My biggest question mark is like,
how do I balance my time? Taking care of a
newborn felt so all consuming, especially from a sleep deprivation
point of view, And then I think about, okay, doing
it while also having a toddler, it feels difficult. I
(18:31):
was just with some moms yesterday at a birthday party
and they were like, you need to get a night nurse,
Like you need a be me nurse. It's not even
well the first one I did it on my own
there like, yes, but you have a toddler now, so's
you have to be functional during the day. You can't.
It's it's just a whole different ballgame. So that's now
what I'm contending with. How will I have the energy
(18:54):
for both in those very critical you know, first twelve weeks.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We'll be right back after these messages, welcome back to
the show.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I'll tell you two things come to mind. I remember
very vividly that having a newborn while I have a
three year old and she turned four shortly after her
brother was born. What's magical about this is that you
forget with a newborn. Newborns basically have very limited needs.
They want to be with you. They want to eat,
(19:24):
and they want to sleep. I mean, they need their
diapers change. I mean there's some really you don't. All
you have to do is adore them and hold them close.
And your three year old is talking to you and
engaging with you, and they want you to they want
you to do a lot of things. I found interestingly
that just when I was filled up with really NonStop
(19:45):
giving attention to the three year old, it was such
a relief. It was a calming and good opportunity to
be still when I was feeding the baby, or because
I nursed a baby, and just when that feeling gets
a little mundane, like okay, this child was not doing
anything except sleeping and eating, and your three year old
comes in to really energize you. So it really does.
(20:07):
I mean, it sounds like you're exhausted all the time,
and certainly they're a sleep deprivation, but there's always sleep
deprivation in motherhood. I'm a big fan of help, so
I would not say I would never say, oh no, no,
there's some pride or some kind of honor in doing
things on your own. But I will say that whether
(20:30):
or not you've got family or you hire someone, you're
going to need to spend time with the sibling on
your own. And so you have both the confidence of
knowing you have done this once before, and so you're
not going to be panicked. You're going to know, I mean,
even if it's something different, you're going to know that
something happens, there's people to call, there's things to do.
So there's a slight more calm approach to it. And
(20:52):
the second thing I wanted to hear. The second thing
is that when I was in a parent group forever,
I mean, I'm a big fan of parent groups, and
while our kids were playing, we spend a lot of
time with the child psychologists that ran the center, and
one of the women who ran the center said something
that always said with me about second children or any
future children beyond the first, that the goal in parenting
(21:12):
is to have that older child first join you and
your husband on the management team for the newborn. Like
all of you are taking care of the newborn. The
child's going to help you, so the three of you
are really focused on making sure that the newborn is good. Now,
the trick in parenting is that at some point, as
the child gets older, the second child gets older, there
(21:34):
has to be a shift so that they are allies
and they are no longer with management. You don't want
to keep your oldest one in the management mode too long,
because the goal with siblings is to have them connected
to one another and not there be the oldest child
is the one who is with the parents, and the
youngest child is always the baby. That struck a chord
for me in part, frankly because my relationship with my siblings,
(21:57):
I think suffered in part because I did always feel
in charge as a sort of I wasn't an ally, no,
I was the youngest, but just because of the nature
of our relationships growing up, I was focused on making
sure my older brother was okay. I mean, I aligned
with my parents, I think a little too much. And
so I really that really struck gochre with me. And
so I really want to work to make sure that
(22:19):
as the baby got older, that the older child didn't
feel overwhelming responsibility that would make it difficult for him
to or in my instance, for her to be an
ally and a friend. So, I mean, you've got plenty
of time for that, because it doesn't happen until they
can both talk and walk and move around. But that management, Yeah,
(22:39):
that management to ally thing was really important. So so
now I want to shift to how you were juggling
your life as a mom and an entrepreneur. What kind
of support systems do you have in place? I asked,
because so many young listeners really want to know how
things get done.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, oh my gosh, So how does it get done?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
One?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
It doesn't all get done. That's, like, I think, the
most important thing to recognize. And then I also try
to remind myself life is about so much more than
accomplishing everything on your to do list. Yesterday I had
a very rare two hours free because someone canceled a
meeting very unexpectedly last minute, and I had like a
very rare two hours free. It was in between a
(23:23):
doctor's appointment and then another meeting I had, And at
first I was like I was with my husband. I
was like, okay, I should get home because I've got
a million things to do on my to do list.
And then he was like, let's just go to lunch.
And I was like, you know what, Yes, let's just
go to lunch. You know, this is time that I've
won back. I don't need to like continue to hack
away at my to do list with every you know,
(23:44):
free moment that I'm granted and we had a lovely lunch.
It was really nice. We know, we got to connect
and talk. I think having a supportive partner goes a
really long way. So we take turns in terms of
who's cooking dinner, and then the person that cooks dinner
is not the same person that does bedtime routine, so
that helps. I also have an incredible nanny who helps
(24:05):
with Mavi, picks them up from school, plays with them
after school as I'm like wrapping up work, which is
so I mean, I think once you figure out like
great child care, talk about a management team and having
like an extension of view like that, that's like the
most important hire you can make as a mom. Someone
that you just know that your child is in good care.
(24:26):
With them, you don't have to worry, you don't have
to like wait for text updates, like you can just
really be at peace knowing, Okay, my child is with
someone that cares for them. They're safe, their well being
is like at the at the forefront of this person's mind.
That I think is huge and I always say it
is so I've had because we've moved, and even in
(24:47):
New York, I tried maybe two different nannies before I
got to someone I really really loved. It is so
worth taking the time to do deep deep I mean, yes,
do research to talk to other families, interview them, but
even beyond that, make sure you spend ample time with
that caregiver and see how they are with your child,
(25:07):
and just so you have to feel really really good
about hiring a nanny or caretaker for your child. So
that is, you know, huge. And then I think scheduling
time for myself is also really important. I think, especially
as a creative I need to also have time to
(25:28):
like think and like clear my head that's not necessarily
dedicated to work and being in meetings and emails. So
I try to do a little hike at the end
of the day. I have on my calendar for today
the benefits of living in California, just a little hiking trail.
I'll bring my headphones, sometimes I listen to podcasts. I
always bring a notebook with me and I just kind
(25:49):
of like jot down ideas or things I didn't get
to for that day. Sometimes I'll like even write out
some creative concepts I have, but I try to also
schedule just thinking to creative time for me in the
day that's not dedicated to just you know, the manual
what kind of mundane to do list things.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
But that is really really good advice, and I think
parents of children at all ages can can take that
advice because we are so often tempted to not do that.
I mean, we do not make time for ourselves. And
even if you don't have a hiking trail, I mean
(26:28):
you can literally walk around the block. I mean you can.
You can there if the concept of taking a little
time away and even if it means you get you
ask your sitter to stay another half an hour, or
if you have to have a make a play date
for your child, whatever, whatever you have to do, because
(26:50):
to clear your head, I mean we give so we
give such short shrift to the importance of clearing our
mind and making space for new ideas and space for calm.
So yeah, yes, that.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Is really and just I think it's also like the
combination of the vitamin D from like sunlight and just
moving your body. It's not rigorous exercise, it's just simply walking.
And as you said, it could just be like walking
around the block. But just there's something about getting outside
of your space and like just moving that does so
(27:22):
much for me.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Absolutely. I mean that these days, with no children around,
I find myself having to walk around the block after
I've done a lot of work just because my brain
won't again, my brain needs a minute. It just needs
to minute to clear out what's been done. So moving
on to the beauty part of your podcast. So, what
I love about your podcast is how you provide your
(27:44):
listeners with the dual perspective of being an insider. I mean,
just recently, I was listening to an older one when
you went to the Sacred launch party, and I felt like,
you are you were, You were there and we're there
with you. So you're you're an insider, but you're also
a consumer of the products. I mean you're both. You
have that you give us the access to stuff that
(28:06):
we might not have, but then you're also just like
us trying on things and trying beauty products. So now
that you with parenting and being pregnant and having your work,
how do you balance your own beauty routines? I mean,
how do you You've talked about the self care comes
(28:26):
giving yourself a break, but the beauty stuff. I mean
that can take some time. How do how do you
make time for that?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
So I am famously not a morning person. I'm actually
very envious of people that naturally rise when the sun rises,
and you know, they make tea and they meditate for
an hour and I don't. I don't. My morning routine
is like I wake up, and especially being on the
West Coast, it's like you're in it, in it from
the moment you wake up, because everyone's going to wake
(28:55):
You've got stuff you've got to respond to. So I
take my time. At the end of the night. I
have a very i'd say extensive in depth nighttime skincare routine,
Like I spend I would say, twenty minutes sometimes thirty
minutes doing my skincare routine. At the end of the night,
I light a candle, I put on a podcast. Sometimes
(29:17):
I put on music, and I really take the time
to wash my face as I'm putting on my serums.
I do facial massage, which I just spent some time
in New York with Shiseido, which is, you know, in
one hundred and fifty year old Japanese skincare brand, and
they had these like experts talk to us about how
important facial massage is just for like draining your lymphatic system,
(29:41):
it can make a huge difference in your face. And
I have always kind of subconsciously, without even realizing all
of the benefits, taken the time to like massage my
face as I'm doing my skincare routine. But yeah, I
massage my serums in, I layer on my moisturizers, I
do like my neck and decalotage. I really take the
time to do a full skincare pampering at night in
(30:06):
the evening. I think, you know, it's interesting because in
the beauty world you'll see all these tips, like you know,
fifteen minute face or it's almost like we want to
get a metal for like doing something as quickly as possible,
like and no, like, I believe in taking the time
to also just to be in touch with your skin.
(30:27):
I think that when I am not sleeping well, when
I'm not eating well, when I'm not doing things that
bring me joy, I think that registers on your face
and it shows up in your skin. So I think
the more in touch you are with your skin, in
a way, it makes me more in touch with yourself.
And I just I hold that time as such a
(30:48):
sacred part of my nighttime routine, and it helps me
ease into bed. It's much better than like, you know,
eating dinner, doing the dishes, scrolling on your phone, and
then like washing your face quickly and pass out. I
think it's for me. It's that easing into bedtime by
doing this really like luxurious and luxury in the time sense.
(31:09):
It doesn't matter what products you're using. Luxurious skincare routine.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That sounds amazing. I mean, just as you described it,
I could just visualize how lovely that must be. Now,
I do have to ask you. I imagine you anticipate
that getting interrupted a little bit in the early days
of the new second baby. I mean, because the beauty
of doing it at night is now is that your
son goes to sleep. I mean, your the baby is
(31:33):
asleep when you're doing this. How does that change when
the sleep cycle has to change.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yes, well, Carol, I'm happy to say that for my
even for when Mami was a newborn, I still did
my skincare rete nice this, you know, when I can't
even remember how long those wake sleep windows were. But
as I got closer to my delivery date with my
first where moms would kind of warn me. And I
remember specifically one mom told me, she's like, you're not
(32:00):
even going to have time to shower. And I was
like what, And she's like, You're not gonna have time
to shower and I was like, I don't know about that,
but we'll see, and to the hospital. To the hospital,
I brought all my skincare routine. After I delivered. I
did my full nighttime routine before I would, So I
kind of decided early on, this is how I'm going
(32:23):
to not completely lose myself in this new chapter of life.
And if it means that, Okay, I've got asked my
husband to do a bottle feeding or I need I
need him to be the one to finish purping and
doing the diaper change so I can have this twenty
minutes with myself, It's something that I kind of just
maintained from the beginning, and it's it's it's like, you know,
(32:44):
brushing your teeth. There are certain things that are like
non negotiable, and I realized that this nighttime skincare routine
for me is like one of my non negotiables.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So listen, I love that. And I also agree that
for some reason. I don't understand why people have a
pensiant when they talk to pregnant women. They only want
to tell them about all the terrible things. I remember
when I was pregnant with my first Oh, I heard
horror stories of labor and delivery, and I thought to myself,
(33:12):
there are too many people walking around this earth for
it to be so awful. I mean, it would evolution
would have ended because if it was really that bad, right.
I don't know why people want you to feel more
anxious about something. I don't know, but anyway, maybe it's
like they want to be psychologically studied. Yeah, no, it does.
It's like some sort of shared pain. I don't know anyway,
(33:33):
But so I'm really happy to hear that you're right.
You make the time to do the things that you
want to do, and you know twenty minutes is not
going to change anything in the cosmic scheme of things.
It's not, I mean, right, So I like that. I
like that you're able to do that, and so I
have every confidence that when baby number two arrives, you'll
(33:57):
be able to keep up your skincare. So your focus
is on beauty and you talk about women in beauty.
I mean, and you have a you now have a son,
I'm inter and he's adorable and he's beautiful as well.
But how do you think about navigating beauty standards. I mean,
(34:18):
let's say you have daughter, or even if you have
all boys, whatever. Beauty standards in the world are very
can be very specific, and they're sort of the quest
to be beautiful and societal expectations of beauty. How do
you think about that in terms of setting positive examples
for your son and for future children. What I'm trying
(34:40):
to get at is if there is there is a
way to look at a focus on beauty that sort
of prioritizes looking good and if you don't look good,
that's problematic. How do you think about that in terms
of the influence you'll have on your children as they
watch you do your work.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yes, I mean I think beauty is so for me
rooted in self care. So one of the things that
I try to do is model for my son how
I take care of myself, how I take care of
my skin. He like knows about sunscreen, he knows his
dad gave him. He like showered him in our outdoor
shower after swimming on the weekend on Saturday, and he
(35:19):
came to me. He said, Daddy didn't put lotion or
shade butter or anything on my skin after he did.
What like, no, okay, Dad, doesn't matter if it's we
got to moisturize the skin afterwards. So I think my
son has already learned that part of just like again,
(35:41):
taking care of yourself is it is the lotion and
the moisturizer and the putting on the sunscreen and detangling
your hair. And I also really love that he has
a strong point of view about his hair, so he
he already has a point of view about how he
wants to self present. And I talked to him about
his hair being beautiful because it's healthy and because we
(36:02):
take such good care of it and we put all
these like beautiful deep conditioners and oils in your hair.
And your hair is beautiful because it's healthy, not because
of the way it looks. And your skin is beautiful
because it's healthy and we pamper it and we protect
it from the sun. So I've tried to kind of
anchor the just like the compliments and feeling good about
(36:24):
our physical features in the fact that we care for them,
right because we care for our skin and our hair.
That's what makes it beautiful and it's healthy. And then
I think again him seeing me express myself through makeup
and clothing. I always ask him for his point of
(36:44):
view of like, oh, what what should I get? He
called whenever I get pink Nailpology calls it my Barbie nails. Oh,
but I kind of I approach it in the through
the lens of self expression, like oh, Mommy wants to
wear this red lipstick because it will look really great
with this dress, and these are fun colors to wear,
(37:04):
and it's kind of like playing dress up in a way,
versus like, oh I look terrible. I got to get
my face together, Like I can't.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Go out looking like this.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
You know, I think kids pay attention to how you
speak about yourself, So I always try to even as
I discuss like my own beauty choices and oh, Mommy's
getting her hair done, and I was thinking I would
do this because this could be really fun and creative,
always making him understand that this is the way that
I express myself, and this is like a mask or
something I'm covering up or something that needs to be perfected. Instead,
(37:33):
it's just another way that I express myself.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
And how does it work. You take a lot of pictures,
I mean, you have a lot of content for your Instagram,
and are you how does he see you react to pictures.
I mean, I'm asking because I hear I'm a broken
record or not liking necessarily every picture. But how do
you talk with him about good pictures, bad pictures? Or
(37:57):
do you not have those conversations with him?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I don't think we've had those conversations yet. But actually
over the summer, I was experimenting with a new camera
and he was really excited about playing with it and
like shooting and doing pictures. So we were kind of
just doing more like oh, funny face, happy face, like
not that none none of his pictures were going on
my Instagram necessarily, but yeah, I think he does. He
(38:22):
is aware that I, you know, take pictures and I'm
like editing videos of myself and podcasts of myself. So
I think that's something that he is aware of. And
you know, we'll just continue to have those conversations. And
even you know, to your point about when you have
so many pick I mean even my podcast if you
go on YouTube, I've got like hour long conversation. There's
a lot of footage of me existing in the world,
(38:44):
and not every angle is the most flattering angle, not
every lighting is the most flattering lighting. So I've just
come to a space where I'm like, oh, that's what
I look like from that angle, or this is what
I look like in this lighting. It's just like a
it's a piece of information. It's not something to feel
all about.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh that is that's a goal for me because this
new world of pictures and sharing them with the world,
it is tougher, I mean tougher to sort of take
that perspective, but that's a really valuable one to take.
It's like, that's what I look like at that moment
and moving on. Yes, yes, So the final final question
(39:22):
it has to do with sort of the the concept
of confidence coming from this focus on self and self
care and beauty. How are you thinking about Mobby and
building confidence within him. How do you as a parent
feel that What are you pouring into him to sort
(39:44):
of encourage him to be confident.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, one of the things that my husband and I
have started doing, which it's so cute to see his
reaction that we talk about him kind of behind his back,
but while he can hear, so like he'll be kind
of like playing or drawing like he's within earshot. But
I'll say, you know, Mavi did the coolest thing today.
He came up to me and he told me x
y z or you know I was I was watching
(40:09):
MAVII earlier and he didn't my little wow, Mafy did that.
You know, I've been noticing that Mafi has been really
curious about x y Z and you know, we look
at his face and we can see that he's hearing
it and he'll usually like come over and interrupt and
they'll say, well, no, I was doing this and that.
But like we've been doing that, and I feel like
he's at the age now where that's meaningful to him,
(40:30):
us having this kind of behind his back compliment sessions
that we do. So that's one of the things that
we've been doing to grow his confidence. And then I
think the other thing is I try to really acknowledge
his boundaries. He We recently took him to the Santa
Monica Pier and he was really excited at first because
(40:50):
of all of the rides and there were lots of rides.
He qualified for it because he was tall enough, but
as we got closer and closer, he was like, it's
it's going too fast. I'm scared. I don't I actually
don't want to do it. And at first I was
kind of pushing him, like, well, let's try, let's try,
let's do it, and he was like, no, no, I
actually don't want him. He did one with his dad
(41:11):
and afterwards he came off. I could tell he was
not happy. It wasn't this like, oh, I'm happy I
pushed through the fear and did it. He said no,
And I said, you know, Mavi, I really want to
commend you on expressing to us what your boundaries were
and telling mommy and daddy how you felt and that
you weren't comfortable. It's so good that you used your
voice to speak up and share with us that you
(41:33):
weren't comfortable, and that's going to serve you, you know, throughout
your life. So just acknowledging even when he's able to
set boundaries with us, what a big deal that is,
and like celebrating that, not just celebrating they like, oh,
you did the scary thing, but also celebrating when he
doesn't want to do the scary thing because he's been
able to communicate.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
That yes, yes, no, that is really great. As he
gets a little older, it'll be interesting to see how
his personality continues in terms of of is interested in
doing things. My daughter was very shy when she was young,
and I used to jokingly call her the no girl
because she would really Her instinct was I don't want
(42:12):
to try it. I don't want to do it. You know, no,
thank you. And while I respected that for sure, when
she was in preschool, the head of the school told
me that she was an observer and I should respect that.
She didn't wasn't one to run into things first, you know,
to run into the center of a group of kids,
or run into or be the first to raise her hand,
but her observation powers would serve her well, and that
(42:35):
I should respect those. I mean, she being more of
an my daughter, be more of an introvert, and I'd
be more of an extrovert. I was cautioned to not
put myself on her. However, I did find as she
got older, I feared that she was missing out on
some opportunities because her instinct was so strong to say no.
And so while I definitely respected the no instinct, I
didn't ever try to make her feel badly about not
(42:56):
wanting to do something. There were some instances where ultimately
I had to say, I really wish that you would
just try this once, and I promise if it doesn't
if you don't like it, if it's going to be safe,
you know, can we talk about what you don't like
about it and please let's just try it so that
you can say yes. I absolutely don't ever have to
do that again. So I say all that to say
(43:17):
that you're right. It's absolutely important for a little one,
particularly a three year old's impressive that you can sort
of use his voice and say no and that you
respect it, because that's really important. I mean, you can't
squash someone's instincts, but it'll be interesting to see if
they develop on their own. There may come a time
when you have to do a little more massaging, but
(43:39):
you're right, it's really important to make them. The confidence
grows when they feel like they say something and people
listen and it matters. So that's really important. So final
question for you, because when I told people I was
going to be talking with you, everyone's so excited because
they love your podcast and they and they also feel
(43:59):
very interested and engaged, and these are younger women who
are similarly situated. So you've talked about this little in
terms of the things you do, But do you have
any advice for women who have not established all the
wonderful sort of rituals that you have that get you
through the day, but they're struggling to find time for
themselves while caring for young children and working and juggling
(44:23):
the rest of their life. I mean, is there any
is there any kind of sort of baby steps that
they can take towards towards self care.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
I think for super just like type A ambitious mothers
that are juggling a million things, I think you have
to schedule it. Actually make it a block in your schedule.
If you're going to take that twenty minute walk or
thirty minute walk around the neighborhood, actually put it in
your calendar. I don't know about you, Carol, but I
(44:56):
like I live and die by my calendar, Like if
it's if it's on the calendar, happening, you know, and
telling other people around you, So telling your partner, telling
anyone who could potentially like impede on that time that
this is a meeting. I have set the same way
you would have a dental appointment, and you wouldn't just
say like, oh, I'm not going to go. You have
to show up for yourself with the same importance that
(45:17):
you would show up for a medical appointment for And
that is how I've been able to treat things like
doing my you know, afternoon hike slash walk. I think
that scheduling it and putting it on your calendar, and
even if you just start with, okay, every Wednesday for
thirty minutes, I'm going to just take a walk outside,
I think that's like a great place to start, even
(45:41):
scheduling things like I always have these shows that I
know that my husband's not going to be interested in,
but I want to walk and I don't want to
wait for him, and I know I may not have
the time. So sometimes I'll even say, like, Okay, I've
been hearing about this new you know show on Hulu
from Thursday from eight to nine after dinner. Once mobi's
I'm going to like check out this show and then
(46:03):
I'm going to call a girl friend and catch up.
But I instead of waiting for that time to magically arise,
I'll text my friend, Hey, are you free Thursday? For
just like a quick catchup. Just scheduling it and like
putting it on your calendar and treating it as an
appointment that you have to show up for. I think
is a game changer.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Oh that is such such great advice. Two things you said,
which which I which resonate deeply. You have to schedule
it and you have to show up for yourself, just
like you would for any other appointment. That is so good, Brook.
I knew this would be amazing. It is amazing. You
are amazing. I thank you so much. Talk to you, really, really,
(46:40):
I thank you. I'm going to wrap it up here,
but before we go, I'm going to ask you to
play as I ask all my guests to play the
GCP Lightning Round. So I have four quick questions. Are
you ready.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Okay? First, your favorite home or saying.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Okay. So this is from Tick not Han, who is
a Buddhist scholar and author, and one of my favorite
quotes from him is to be beautiful means to be yourself.
You don't need to be accepted by others, You need
to accept yourself. And I just love it's really the
first part of that for me, Like, to be beautiful
(47:21):
means to be yourself. I think we live in a
world where there's so much about like external beauty, and truly,
the people that are the most beautiful are beautiful because
they are themselves and you don't. You really don't need
any external validation. Like accepting yourself is the whole game.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Oh. Absolutely, Oh that's great. That's great. Your favorite two
children's books from either when you grew up with or
when'd you read to mab or that you read to
the baby to be the baby that's coming?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, so my favorite. I wonder if you know this book,
I'm Mufaro's Beautiful Daughters. Do you know this well?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I know it only because I've heard of it from
other guests who have made it one of their favorites.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
That was my favorite growing up. Just so beautifully illustrated,
really just like an immersive, beautiful story. But I really
appreciate illustrations, I'm realizing as now a consumer of children's books.
And then for MAVII, this book I actually brought it.
It's called Bodies Are Cool by Tyler Fetter. Oh, I'm
(48:24):
going to read from some of it?
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yes, please do it?
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Is you know, teaching kids about diversity, I think is
really hard and this one was a good so you'll
you'll understand as I'm reading it. So big bodies, small bodies, dancing, playing,
happy bodies. Look at all these different bodies. Bodies are cool,
Lanky bodies, squat bodies, tall, short, wider, narrow bodies, somewhere
in the middle. Bodies. Bodies are cool, round bodies, muscled bodies,
(48:52):
curvy and straight bodies, jiggly wiggly, fat bodies. Bodies are cool.
It goes on to talk about leg hair, leg hair,
armpit hair, fuzzy lip and chin, hair, brows, meat in
the middle. Hair. Bodies are cool. And all of these
incredible illustrations. Oh, just these different body types and different.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Oh great, it gets into you know, now I wish
this were a visual podcast because it really they're beautiful.
Oh my goodness, there's a picture, a depiction of a
little girl who has videligo. Oh that's so beautiful. What
a great yes, what a great thing.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Wow, it's amazing. And even this with this one about legs,
thick legs, scrawny legs, knobby knees and long legs, roll
up to the table. Legs. Bodies are cool and for
the roll up to the table legs. You see you know,
a little boy in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
You know, it's just just showing like we're all different,
we all have different we all exist in different bodies,
and it's all cool and interesting and something to be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yes, No, I love that. I love that that. The
refrain is that bodies are cool. I mean that that
is because you you can notice these things in the
world and not not say that it's great. I mean
you could say, oh, someone's tall, someone's fat, someone's more,
but to say it's cool afterwards, it's it's a very
good message, a very good message. Yeah, okay, good. I'm
(50:17):
gonna make sure that I put this this book in
the notes so that people can find that I didn't
know that book. So the author is Tyler Tyler, Okay, bodies,
bodies are great. Okay. So here I need two mom moments.
I need a mom moment that you'd love to do over.
And what I mean by that is if you could
do it again differently, you would. Yes.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
For me, it was definitely the pressure I put on
myself around breastfeeding and exclusively breastfeeding. I just drove myself
a little bit crazy. I got like a hospital grade pump.
I mean I pumped as much as I could, I
fed as much as I could, I did power pumping,
but I just simply did not have enough milk to
(51:04):
meet my child's demands. So I supplemented both formula, and
I think I just wasted a lot of time feeling
guilty about that. And you know, breastfeeding is so beautiful
and if you can exclusively breastfeed, that is amazing, but
if you can't, that is also okay. And I don't
(51:25):
think I gave myself enough a grace around that specific topic.
So I would I would do that over and just
have a lot less shame and guilt about that.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Oh good. It's a continuation of that desire for women
to sort of make you feel like something terrible is
going to happen with respect to pregnancy or childbirth. It's like,
if you don't do if you don't breastfeed, something horrible
is going to happen. I know statistically that doing it
longer can be helpful, it can be healthy for the baby,
and it's a good thing. But it but it's everybody's choice.
(51:57):
I mean, you do not have to breastfeed for ever.
I mean, it should be I think your body your choice.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
So and if mom's not happy, no one's happy, right right?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
No exactly. And then finally a moment when you knew
you nailed it as a mom.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Oh, I would say recently, just sharing with Mavi that
he was going to be a big brother, his instant
one excitement, but the way that he was immediately like
can I help with the bottle? Like, you know, can
I help get the baby to sleep? Like what lullabies
will I do? I think when my husband and I
kind of looked at each other we were like, wow,
like he's become such a thoughtful, you know, little person,
(52:36):
and the fact that he's asking all of these questions
and just immediately went to like how can I help?
We were like, Okay, I feel like we're doing a
good job.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Oh. Absolutely, absolutely, He's going to be a great big brother.
So exciting. So Brook, I thank you again so much,
great answers, great conversation, and thanks so much for being
with us today.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Thank you for the great and thoughtful question. I love
this podcast. I'm happy to join all of these incredible
parents you've interviewed so far. And yeah, this is just
I mean, what a great topic talk about something you
can talk about forever and ever parenting.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Good, good luck, and God blessed with the new baby.
Oh I should also say for any parents who are
listening who have not yet heard your podcast Naked Beauty,
please go hear it now. It's amazing and check you
out on check Naked Beauty and your Instagram because I'm
sure when the baby comes we will know.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yes exactly yes Brooks of Art on all platforms and
Naked Beauty new episodes every Monday, so definitely check that out.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Oh great, we will. Thanks again. I hope everyone listening
enjoyed this conversation that you'll come back for more. Please subscribe,
rate and review where you find your podcasts and tell
your friends. For more parenting info and advice, please check
out the Ground Control Parenting website at www. Groundcontrolparenting dot com.
You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at
(53:59):
ground Control Parenting and a LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis.
Until the next time, take care and thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control of Parenting, a blog
and now a podcast creative for parents raising black and
brown children. I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis.
In this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting
people about the job and the joy of parenting. I
am so happy to have Brooke Devard Oziden Lee join
me for today's conversation. Brook created her Wonderful Naked Beauty
(00:28):
podcast in twenty sixteen to uplift and tell the stories
of amazing women in beauty. After not being able to
find meaningful beauty conversations with women of color, Brooke set
out to create the podcast she really wanted to hear.
Naked Beauty has interviewed hundreds of amazing thought leaders on
their approach to beauty, self care, skincare, and wellness. The
(00:48):
podcast has been recognized by iHeartMedia as one of the
best beauty podcasts and has thousands of weekly listeners. Brook
started her career in London and has worked in marketing
and social media at global leading brands such as Ralph Lauren,
Instagram and FID Home. She is committed to pushing the
beauty conversation forward, advocating for women of color and breaking
down barriers to self care and wellness. Brooke grew up
(01:11):
in New York City and attended Stanford University. She lives
in Los Angeles with her husband and her three year
old son. Welcome to ground Control Parenting.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Brooke, so excited to be here. Thank you so much
for having me, Carol.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I am so happy that you could join me today.
You have created such important, interesting conversations that are really
resourceful in the world of beauty, and you also create
really engaging and informative social media. Included in this media
are delightful pictures of your family, your husband and your
adorable son, Mobby. And we have delighted in watching Mobby
(01:43):
grow on your Instagram posts. And speaking of growing, your
family is growing because you have a new baby on
the way.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So family's growing, bellies growing, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
And so I'm happy to talk with you about raising
a toddler, expanding the family, juggling life as a mom
and an entrepreneur, taking time to take care of yourself,
and the intersection of parenting and beauty. So let's get started. So, Brook,
let's start with a little bit of background on you.
But you were born in New York and raised in
New York And what part of New York did you
grow up?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
In? Manhattan on the Upper East Side? My brother and I,
my mom and dad. I was actually born in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
which a lot of people don't know, and we moved
then to New Orleans, but I moved to New York.
I think I was either six or seven years old
when I moved to New York City. So, for all
intents and purposes, you know, a New Yorker but not
(02:39):
born there.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Huh No, I've always thought of you guys as native
New Yorkers. I say, this is a proud native New Yorker.
You have that native new Yorker vibe. So to me,
that's a high capital of my mom.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, my mom is, you know, born in Harlem, so
she's definitely a native New Yorker. My dad is from
the South. But yeah, I loved growing up in New
York City. And it's so funny because now I live
here in Las Angelus after many, many, many years in
New York and people will say, oh, New York is great,
but it's no place to raise kids. And they say
that not knowing that I grew up as a child
(03:10):
in New York and I'm like, there are under eighteen
year olds on the island of Manhattan that are thriving.
You know, we don't like playing dumpsters for fun. But
it's just like this idea that like New York cities,
it's like fabulous city, but it's not for kids somehow,
which always confounds me when I hear that.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You know the same thing with me. As I said,
I'm native New Yorker. My mom was a native of
New Yorker, and so is her mom. So we've been
here for a long time. And my children who grew
up here all tell me that their friends that they've
met along the way who are not New Yorkers, are
incredulous that people at kids grow up in New York
And you're right, they perceive it to be either playing
(03:48):
at dumpster's or one long party that somehow you start
when you're five, you know. So let me just let's
just assure everybody out there, New York City, Manhattan even
can be a very calm and good place to raise children.
And as my mother did with me and I did
with my children, there are so many cultural things that
you can expose your children to. I mean, my mom
(04:12):
took me everywhere she was a teacher. In the summertimes,
we would go to every place, free places, you know,
just to Lincoln Center. They'd be outdoor concerts. I mean, yeah,
there's so much for kids to do.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So much programming, museums, playgrounds. It's like, we don't have backyards,
but we have Central Park, which is.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Right exactly exactly. It's a huge backyard. So so you're
growing up first in these other cities, but then in
New York City. Now, what kind of expectations in terms
of behavior and academics did your parents set out for you? Like,
(04:51):
how did they convey what they expected of you?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
That is such a good question. I never had to
be at to study. I was one of these people
that kind of like came home from school and studied myself.
I think there was a lot of self imposed pressure.
I went to spend very small, all girls private school,
pretty academically rigorous. But I have always been someone that
(05:17):
wanted to, you know, achieve top grades. In addition to
doing sports, I did swimming, I did track, So someone
that was very driven by accomplishment. And you know, I
think rather than my parents being like overly strict about
expectations in terms of academics. What they did do is
celebrate when I got you know, great grades. They would
(05:39):
be really celebratory of that fact and celebrate, you know,
not oh, you came in first place at the track meet,
but just coming to my track meets, coming to my
swimming meats, showing up. So I think their support and
celebration of the wins that I did have where there.
That was their subtle way of, you know, gently pushing
me towards that path of wanting to continue to accomplish
(06:01):
that way.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Oh oh, that's great. Showing up makes a big difference
to little one, So it's great they were able to
do that, especially because I know, I know your mom,
and I know you grew up with a mom who's
an accomplished corporate executive. He said, forty years of extensive
marketing leadership at large global brands. So she had a
big day job. I mean, sounds like she was showing
(06:22):
up along with your dad at things. But how conscious
were you of the demands of her day job and
on her time while you were growing up.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I really credit my mom with doing a great job
of explaining to my brother and I what her job
was and what she was doing week to week. When
she was at Verizon, she would bring home commercials. Back
when we had you know, DVDs, she would bring home
commercials and she would say, these are two different commercials
that were testing. They're going into focus groups this week.
I want you and your brother to watch them. Tell
(06:52):
me what your feedback is. What do you think about
which commercial works better? Which which spot do you think
is funnier? Which one would encourage you to get this
sell done. When she worked at Revlon, she would bring
home all of the you know, color cosmetics that she
was working on, all the different nail polishes. So when
there would be a school bake sale and all the
other mommies were there and my mom wasn't there, I
(07:13):
would know that she wasn't there because she had a
really important meeting. She had a really big agency briefing
that morning. So and I've taken that with me for
my son. I explained to my three year old MAVII,
what I do with this podcast. So I say, okay,
I have to fly to New York because you know
the podcast that mommy records in her office usually with
(07:34):
the microphone, I'm actually doing it in front of a
live audience and people are going to get to hear
me and see me do do the podcast. So I
try to now explain to him, even at a young age,
when I can't be around or when I can't be
with him, what I'm doing and that it makes me
happy and that it brings me joy. So I think
because my mom always explained to us what she was doing,
(07:54):
we felt very in tune with what was happening in
her work. It didn't feel like, you know, like I
felt the sense of pride, you know, about the work
that she was doing and knowing that she was doing
this work that made her so happy.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
And how cool that your mom's job, which was in marketing,
I mean she was actually doing work you guys for
her own little focus group. Yes, so you were helping
her and you were also being both informed and entertained.
I mean, mom's job seemed fun if she got to
bring home things for you guys to look at and
weigh and on. So that's great. And you actually predicted
(08:29):
my next question, which was how much of the way
that you grew up and the way you were parented
has influenced the way that you were raising mob It
sounds like your explanation of what you're doing is one thing.
Are there any other ways that you see sort of
it being paid forward in your parenting?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yes, I'm sure. I'm actually curious to hear from you.
This was a big thing in your household. But family
dinner was always this like very sacred thing growing up.
No matter what, we would all sit down and have
dinner together. I think it was like seven seven o'clock. Yes,
we would all sit down. You know, everyone's coming from
the office, My parents were coming from the office. We
would stop all of everything we had going on after school.
(09:10):
No one's allowed to answer the phone. We would sit
down and have dinner together. And that is something that
my husband and I try really, really really hard to prioritize,
even with Mavi. I have some friends that, you know,
their toddlers eat at like six o'clock and then they eat,
you know, they're like chicken fingers, you know, like kids
(09:32):
adults eat, you know, wants a child's asleep. But we
have really, really since he was, you know, two years old,
tried to always do meal times together. We always eat
the same thing, which is one of the reasons why
I think he has such an extensive palate because he
eats what we eat. There's no you know, separate meal
toddler meal for him, and we just really try to
(09:53):
prioritize sitting down and having family dinner and talking to
each other about our days. And that's something that I
absolutely observed from my family growing up as just a
really important and sacred part of the day.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
That sounds really lovely now. When my children were really young,
they ate earlier, but we did try to gather around
the dinner table even if they were done eating, to
just have a moment when everyone was home. Because I
always worked from home, but my husband worked in an
office and so he would get home later, but we
would always try to grab that time, certainly during the
(10:28):
week and on the weekends. Definitely we prioritize it. What's
interesting is that now, I mean, my kids are in
their mid to late twenties and early thirties, and dinner
together now is even a greater priority. I mean, of course,
the occasions for it are few because they're all over
the place, but it's the best time to sit together now.
(10:50):
I was very fortunate in that my family was raised,
my children were raised in an error before smartphones. I
now talk a lot about, you know, not having phones
at dinner for family's younger children. But we always have
our phones because invariably there is something that we're gonna
have to check. I mean, there has to be our conversations.
There's a whole lot of Google that check that. So
(11:11):
we can't put our phones away. But there's no there's
no use the phone to communicate with other people when
we're all together. And kudos to you, I'll say this
because I wasn't able to do this. Kudos to you
for raising your son to eat what you eat. Because yes,
my eldest and we can laugh about this now because
she's now a gormand and eats everything, but had a
(11:32):
very specific palette and so it was for the longest
time we were not all eating the same thing.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So that most toddlers do. Most toddlers do have a
very specific palette. I think it's it's out of the
ordinary when he goes even on pladates or like we
you know, bring food around other like he's eating like
salmon and beats for dinner.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
This is what he likes to check. Plus to the
mom and the dad for that one, because that is rare,
very rare. Okay, So now you have this adorable three
year old toddler. And in a post that you wrote
around Mother's Day, you talked about your parenting goals for him,
and you said, and I'm quoting you, I hope to
(12:18):
teach my son the invaluable lesson of always being true
to himself at the age of three. I see the
purity and Mavie's self expression and creativity. My goal is
to nurture his individuality and encourage him to follow his
passions and intuition throughout his life. And this is the key.
I want to empower him to embrace his uniqueness with
confidence and authenticity. First of all, I thought that was
(12:39):
beautifully written and certainly for everybody. But here's my question
for you, because the concept of authenticity and embracing uniqueness
is a change from parenting of long ago, where the
theory was you sort of raised your child up with
certain explaining certain ways to think, and they could ultimately,
(13:04):
sort of, with education and experience, create their own. How
are you drawing the line between giving your child the
space to be his authentic self, that is, to sort
of be who he is, and then setting limits that
he needs to grow safely. And I would argue the
confidence that comes from feeling safe, you know what I'm saying.
(13:25):
I mean, I see a lot of parents are very
focused on letting their children. The authenticity of children means
that some parents shy away from more structure and are
more focused on letting the child operate the way they
want to. Is that how you see it?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yes, you're asking the question in such a delicate diplomatic way.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's the parents that are like, well, that's just how
they are, Like they're just going to beat trackers for dinner,
and they're going to go to whenever they want to,
and they're going to talk me any type of way
because that's their authentic self. So yes, I think that
like discipline and structure is still really important in like
nurturing their authentic selves. And I think I can think
(14:14):
of a very specific example around engaging with other people.
So you know, my son has probably authentic self when
someone says like, Hi, how are you? And it's also
funny when you when you see people that don't aren't
around toddlers often that try to engage with toddlers, it's
like they're not at the like how are you stage,
(14:34):
Like they're not They're not gonna like sit down and
tell you about their day.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
But I had to talk to.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Him about how to like greet people and how to
you know, when you go into someone's home, how to
introduce yourself, how to take off your shoes when you're
in someone's new house. You can't just like run in
with your you know, dirty little crocs all over their carpet.
So teaching teaching those things because they need us to
(15:00):
teach them those things. They don't learn that doesn't come
naturally to them, that's not part of their authentic being
to learn, like social codes and social codes are taught right,
like you are taught to ask to have a turn
at the playground if someone's playing with something that you
really want. You are taught to apologize to someone if
(15:23):
you accidentally hurt them. You know, that's not something that
comes to children authentically. So I always have to remind
myself with him, what do I have to do as mom?
And what's my husband have to do is dad? To
teach him how to operate in this world and how
to be polite and like have good manners, because I
don't think that doesn't come to kids naturally to do
(15:47):
those things. But they have to be taught to.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
No, absolutely, I would think that that kind of the
the interest in having a polite child is something that's
passed down. I mean, you know, I'm sure you were
raised to be polite, and I still think that is
a good value, even if it means you, for a
minute have to do something that you don't feel like doing.
So it's a good it's a good instruction for your children.
(16:13):
So yes, so here you are. You've got this adorable
three year old, and now you're going to have another baby.
I'm how I have to say that when I have
three children, and when I have my first and my
daughter was three when I had my second, I wondered
how I could possibly make room. That sounds so hokey,
(16:35):
but how I could make room in my heart for
another child? And the good news, I wondered, Yeah, yeah, no,
it is. The good news is you can I mean
have three. I have in my heart for the three
of them. Your heart expands to meet the needs. But
how are you thinking about welcoming the new baby and
(16:57):
how much Mavi's life is going to change that and
he doesn't know it yet.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yes, well, you know you just said something that reminded
me of some advice that I got that you're never
supposed to say the new baby in front of the
other child, which makes sense, right, like, oh, the new baby.
You know, it's just kind of like you're old news
the new baby. The new baby is coming. So like
even things like that, like being careful with your language,
(17:23):
you know, to not say things like that when the.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
New baby comes.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
But I always try to say say things like, oh,
like when your sibling comes, you know, like saying things
like that. And MAVII is very excited. We told him
when I was three months that he was going to
be a big brother, and you know, this is going
to be a new, big, fun responsibility, and he's already
(17:46):
been like, well, can I help do the bottle? And
also he's going to be four in September, so he's
now old enough to be able to like help out,
and he really understands what's happening in terms of moving
into this transition of being a big brother, and he's
like eager to help. So I'm excited that he's so
excited about it. We didn't know how he was going
to take the news, but he's like thrilled and really
(18:09):
excited to be a big brother and then I think
it's just about for me. My biggest question mark is like,
how do I balance my time? Taking care of a
newborn felt so all consuming, especially from a sleep deprivation
point of view, And then I think about, okay, doing
it while also having a toddler, it feels difficult. I
(18:31):
was just with some moms yesterday at a birthday party
and they were like, you need to get a night nurse,
Like you need a be me nurse. It's not even
well the first one I did it on my own
there like, yes, but you have a toddler now, so's
you have to be functional during the day. You can't.
It's it's just a whole different ballgame. So that's now
what I'm contending with. How will I have the energy
(18:54):
for both in those very critical you know, first twelve weeks.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We'll be right back after these messages, welcome back to
the show.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I'll tell you two things come to mind. I remember
very vividly that having a newborn while I have a
three year old and she turned four shortly after her
brother was born. What's magical about this is that you
forget with a newborn. Newborns basically have very limited needs.
They want to be with you. They want to eat,
(19:24):
and they want to sleep. I mean, they need their
diapers change. I mean there's some really you don't. All
you have to do is adore them and hold them close.
And your three year old is talking to you and
engaging with you, and they want you to they want
you to do a lot of things. I found interestingly
that just when I was filled up with really NonStop
(19:45):
giving attention to the three year old, it was such
a relief. It was a calming and good opportunity to
be still when I was feeding the baby, or because
I nursed a baby, and just when that feeling gets
a little mundane, like okay, this child was not doing
anything except sleeping and eating, and your three year old
comes in to really energize you. So it really does.
(20:07):
I mean, it sounds like you're exhausted all the time,
and certainly they're a sleep deprivation, but there's always sleep
deprivation in motherhood. I'm a big fan of help, so
I would not say I would never say, oh no, no,
there's some pride or some kind of honor in doing
things on your own. But I will say that whether
(20:30):
or not you've got family or you hire someone, you're
going to need to spend time with the sibling on
your own. And so you have both the confidence of
knowing you have done this once before, and so you're
not going to be panicked. You're going to know, I mean,
even if it's something different, you're going to know that
something happens, there's people to call, there's things to do.
So there's a slight more calm approach to it. And
(20:52):
the second thing I wanted to hear. The second thing
is that when I was in a parent group forever,
I mean, I'm a big fan of parent groups, and
while our kids were playing, we spend a lot of
time with the child psychologists that ran the center, and
one of the women who ran the center said something
that always said with me about second children or any
future children beyond the first, that the goal in parenting
(21:12):
is to have that older child first join you and
your husband on the management team for the newborn. Like
all of you are taking care of the newborn. The
child's going to help you, so the three of you
are really focused on making sure that the newborn is good. Now,
the trick in parenting is that at some point, as
the child gets older, the second child gets older, there
(21:34):
has to be a shift so that they are allies
and they are no longer with management. You don't want
to keep your oldest one in the management mode too long,
because the goal with siblings is to have them connected
to one another and not there be the oldest child
is the one who is with the parents, and the
youngest child is always the baby. That struck a chord
for me in part, frankly because my relationship with my siblings,
(21:57):
I think suffered in part because I did always feel
in charge as a sort of I wasn't an ally, no,
I was the youngest, but just because of the nature
of our relationships growing up, I was focused on making
sure my older brother was okay. I mean, I aligned
with my parents, I think a little too much. And
so I really that really struck gochre with me. And
so I really want to work to make sure that
(22:19):
as the baby got older, that the older child didn't
feel overwhelming responsibility that would make it difficult for him
to or in my instance, for her to be an
ally and a friend. So, I mean, you've got plenty
of time for that, because it doesn't happen until they
can both talk and walk and move around. But that management, Yeah,
(22:39):
that management to ally thing was really important. So so
now I want to shift to how you were juggling
your life as a mom and an entrepreneur. What kind
of support systems do you have in place? I asked,
because so many young listeners really want to know how
things get done.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, oh my gosh, So how does it get done?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
One?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
It doesn't all get done. That's, like, I think, the
most important thing to recognize. And then I also try
to remind myself life is about so much more than
accomplishing everything on your to do list. Yesterday I had
a very rare two hours free because someone canceled a
meeting very unexpectedly last minute, and I had like a
very rare two hours free. It was in between a
(23:23):
doctor's appointment and then another meeting I had, And at
first I was like I was with my husband. I
was like, okay, I should get home because I've got
a million things to do on my to do list.
And then he was like, let's just go to lunch.
And I was like, you know what, Yes, let's just
go to lunch. You know, this is time that I've
won back. I don't need to like continue to hack
away at my to do list with every you know,
(23:44):
free moment that I'm granted and we had a lovely lunch.
It was really nice. We know, we got to connect
and talk. I think having a supportive partner goes a
really long way. So we take turns in terms of
who's cooking dinner, and then the person that cooks dinner
is not the same person that does bedtime routine, so
that helps. I also have an incredible nanny who helps
(24:05):
with Mavi, picks them up from school, plays with them
after school as I'm like wrapping up work, which is
so I mean, I think once you figure out like
great child care, talk about a management team and having
like an extension of view like that, that's like the
most important hire you can make as a mom. Someone
that you just know that your child is in good care.
(24:26):
With them, you don't have to worry, you don't have
to like wait for text updates, like you can just
really be at peace knowing, Okay, my child is with
someone that cares for them. They're safe, their well being
is like at the at the forefront of this person's mind.
That I think is huge and I always say it
is so I've had because we've moved, and even in
(24:47):
New York, I tried maybe two different nannies before I
got to someone I really really loved. It is so
worth taking the time to do deep deep I mean, yes,
do research to talk to other families, interview them, but
even beyond that, make sure you spend ample time with
that caregiver and see how they are with your child,
(25:07):
and just so you have to feel really really good
about hiring a nanny or caretaker for your child. So
that is, you know, huge. And then I think scheduling
time for myself is also really important. I think, especially
as a creative I need to also have time to
(25:28):
like think and like clear my head that's not necessarily
dedicated to work and being in meetings and emails. So
I try to do a little hike at the end
of the day. I have on my calendar for today
the benefits of living in California, just a little hiking trail.
I'll bring my headphones, sometimes I listen to podcasts. I
always bring a notebook with me and I just kind
(25:49):
of like jot down ideas or things I didn't get
to for that day. Sometimes I'll like even write out
some creative concepts I have, but I try to also
schedule just thinking to creative time for me in the
day that's not dedicated to just you know, the manual
what kind of mundane to do list things.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
But that is really really good advice, and I think
parents of children at all ages can can take that
advice because we are so often tempted to not do that.
I mean, we do not make time for ourselves. And
even if you don't have a hiking trail, I mean
(26:28):
you can literally walk around the block. I mean you can.
You can there if the concept of taking a little
time away and even if it means you get you
ask your sitter to stay another half an hour, or
if you have to have a make a play date
for your child, whatever, whatever you have to do, because
(26:50):
to clear your head, I mean we give so we
give such short shrift to the importance of clearing our
mind and making space for new ideas and space for calm.
So yeah, yes, that.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Is really and just I think it's also like the
combination of the vitamin D from like sunlight and just
moving your body. It's not rigorous exercise, it's just simply walking.
And as you said, it could just be like walking
around the block. But just there's something about getting outside
of your space and like just moving that does so
(27:22):
much for me.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Absolutely. I mean that these days, with no children around,
I find myself having to walk around the block after
I've done a lot of work just because my brain
won't again, my brain needs a minute. It just needs
to minute to clear out what's been done. So moving
on to the beauty part of your podcast. So, what
I love about your podcast is how you provide your
(27:44):
listeners with the dual perspective of being an insider. I mean,
just recently, I was listening to an older one when
you went to the Sacred launch party, and I felt like,
you are you were, You were there and we're there
with you. So you're you're an insider, but you're also
a consumer of the products. I mean you're both. You
have that you give us the access to stuff that
(28:06):
we might not have, but then you're also just like
us trying on things and trying beauty products. So now
that you with parenting and being pregnant and having your work,
how do you balance your own beauty routines? I mean,
how do you You've talked about the self care comes
(28:26):
giving yourself a break, but the beauty stuff. I mean
that can take some time. How do how do you
make time for that?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
So I am famously not a morning person. I'm actually
very envious of people that naturally rise when the sun rises,
and you know, they make tea and they meditate for
an hour and I don't. I don't. My morning routine
is like I wake up, and especially being on the
West Coast, it's like you're in it, in it from
the moment you wake up, because everyone's going to wake
(28:55):
You've got stuff you've got to respond to. So I
take my time. At the end of the night. I
have a very i'd say extensive in depth nighttime skincare routine,
Like I spend I would say, twenty minutes sometimes thirty
minutes doing my skincare routine. At the end of the night,
I light a candle, I put on a podcast. Sometimes
(29:17):
I put on music, and I really take the time
to wash my face as I'm putting on my serums.
I do facial massage, which I just spent some time
in New York with Shiseido, which is, you know, in
one hundred and fifty year old Japanese skincare brand, and
they had these like experts talk to us about how
important facial massage is just for like draining your lymphatic system,
(29:41):
it can make a huge difference in your face. And
I have always kind of subconsciously, without even realizing all
of the benefits, taken the time to like massage my
face as I'm doing my skincare routine. But yeah, I
massage my serums in, I layer on my moisturizers, I
do like my neck and decalotage. I really take the
time to do a full skincare pampering at night in
(30:06):
the evening. I think, you know, it's interesting because in
the beauty world you'll see all these tips, like you know,
fifteen minute face or it's almost like we want to
get a metal for like doing something as quickly as possible,
like and no, like, I believe in taking the time
to also just to be in touch with your skin.
(30:27):
I think that when I am not sleeping well, when
I'm not eating well, when I'm not doing things that
bring me joy, I think that registers on your face
and it shows up in your skin. So I think
the more in touch you are with your skin, in
a way, it makes me more in touch with yourself.
And I just I hold that time as such a
(30:48):
sacred part of my nighttime routine, and it helps me
ease into bed. It's much better than like, you know,
eating dinner, doing the dishes, scrolling on your phone, and
then like washing your face quickly and pass out. I
think it's for me. It's that easing into bedtime by
doing this really like luxurious and luxury in the time sense.
(31:09):
It doesn't matter what products you're using. Luxurious skincare routine.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That sounds amazing. I mean, just as you described it,
I could just visualize how lovely that must be. Now,
I do have to ask you. I imagine you anticipate
that getting interrupted a little bit in the early days
of the new second baby. I mean, because the beauty
of doing it at night is now is that your
son goes to sleep. I mean, your the baby is
(31:33):
asleep when you're doing this. How does that change when
the sleep cycle has to change.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yes, well, Carol, I'm happy to say that for my
even for when Mami was a newborn, I still did
my skincare rete nice this, you know, when I can't
even remember how long those wake sleep windows were. But
as I got closer to my delivery date with my
first where moms would kind of warn me. And I
remember specifically one mom told me, she's like, you're not
(32:00):
even going to have time to shower. And I was
like what, And she's like, You're not gonna have time
to shower and I was like, I don't know about that,
but we'll see, and to the hospital. To the hospital,
I brought all my skincare routine. After I delivered. I
did my full nighttime routine before I would, So I
kind of decided early on, this is how I'm going
(32:23):
to not completely lose myself in this new chapter of life.
And if it means that, Okay, I've got asked my
husband to do a bottle feeding or I need I
need him to be the one to finish purping and
doing the diaper change so I can have this twenty
minutes with myself, It's something that I kind of just
maintained from the beginning, and it's it's it's like, you know,
(32:44):
brushing your teeth. There are certain things that are like
non negotiable, and I realized that this nighttime skincare routine
for me is like one of my non negotiables.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So listen, I love that. And I also agree that
for some reason. I don't understand why people have a
pensiant when they talk to pregnant women. They only want
to tell them about all the terrible things. I remember
when I was pregnant with my first Oh, I heard
horror stories of labor and delivery, and I thought to myself,
(33:12):
there are too many people walking around this earth for
it to be so awful. I mean, it would evolution
would have ended because if it was really that bad, right.
I don't know why people want you to feel more
anxious about something. I don't know, but anyway, maybe it's
like they want to be psychologically studied. Yeah, no, it does.
It's like some sort of shared pain. I don't know anyway,
(33:33):
But so I'm really happy to hear that you're right.
You make the time to do the things that you
want to do, and you know twenty minutes is not
going to change anything in the cosmic scheme of things.
It's not, I mean, right, So I like that. I
like that you're able to do that, and so I
have every confidence that when baby number two arrives, you'll
(33:57):
be able to keep up your skincare. So your focus
is on beauty and you talk about women in beauty.
I mean, and you have a you now have a son,
I'm inter and he's adorable and he's beautiful as well.
But how do you think about navigating beauty standards. I mean,
(34:18):
let's say you have daughter, or even if you have
all boys, whatever. Beauty standards in the world are very
can be very specific, and they're sort of the quest
to be beautiful and societal expectations of beauty. How do
you think about that in terms of setting positive examples
for your son and for future children. What I'm trying
(34:40):
to get at is if there is there is a
way to look at a focus on beauty that sort
of prioritizes looking good and if you don't look good,
that's problematic. How do you think about that in terms
of the influence you'll have on your children as they
watch you do your work.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yes, I mean I think beauty is so for me
rooted in self care. So one of the things that
I try to do is model for my son how
I take care of myself, how I take care of
my skin. He like knows about sunscreen, he knows his
dad gave him. He like showered him in our outdoor
shower after swimming on the weekend on Saturday, and he
(35:19):
came to me. He said, Daddy didn't put lotion or
shade butter or anything on my skin after he did.
What like, no, okay, Dad, doesn't matter if it's we
got to moisturize the skin afterwards. So I think my
son has already learned that part of just like again,
(35:41):
taking care of yourself is it is the lotion and
the moisturizer and the putting on the sunscreen and detangling
your hair. And I also really love that he has
a strong point of view about his hair, so he
he already has a point of view about how he
wants to self present. And I talked to him about
his hair being beautiful because it's healthy and because we
(36:02):
take such good care of it and we put all
these like beautiful deep conditioners and oils in your hair.
And your hair is beautiful because it's healthy, not because
of the way it looks. And your skin is beautiful
because it's healthy and we pamper it and we protect
it from the sun. So I've tried to kind of
anchor the just like the compliments and feeling good about
(36:24):
our physical features in the fact that we care for them,
right because we care for our skin and our hair.
That's what makes it beautiful and it's healthy. And then
I think again him seeing me express myself through makeup
and clothing. I always ask him for his point of
(36:44):
view of like, oh, what what should I get? He
called whenever I get pink Nailpology calls it my Barbie nails. Oh,
but I kind of I approach it in the through
the lens of self expression, like oh, Mommy wants to
wear this red lipstick because it will look really great
with this dress, and these are fun colors to wear,
(37:04):
and it's kind of like playing dress up in a way,
versus like, oh I look terrible. I got to get
my face together, Like I can't.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Go out looking like this.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
You know, I think kids pay attention to how you
speak about yourself, So I always try to even as
I discuss like my own beauty choices and oh, Mommy's
getting her hair done, and I was thinking I would
do this because this could be really fun and creative,
always making him understand that this is the way that
I express myself, and this is like a mask or
something I'm covering up or something that needs to be perfected. Instead,
(37:33):
it's just another way that I express myself.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
And how does it work. You take a lot of pictures,
I mean, you have a lot of content for your Instagram,
and are you how does he see you react to pictures.
I mean, I'm asking because I hear I'm a broken
record or not liking necessarily every picture. But how do
you talk with him about good pictures, bad pictures? Or
(37:57):
do you not have those conversations with him?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I don't think we've had those conversations yet. But actually
over the summer, I was experimenting with a new camera
and he was really excited about playing with it and
like shooting and doing pictures. So we were kind of
just doing more like oh, funny face, happy face, like
not that none none of his pictures were going on
my Instagram necessarily, but yeah, I think he does. He
(38:22):
is aware that I, you know, take pictures and I'm
like editing videos of myself and podcasts of myself. So
I think that's something that he is aware of. And
you know, we'll just continue to have those conversations. And
even you know, to your point about when you have
so many pick I mean even my podcast if you
go on YouTube, I've got like hour long conversation. There's
a lot of footage of me existing in the world,
(38:44):
and not every angle is the most flattering angle, not
every lighting is the most flattering lighting. So I've just
come to a space where I'm like, oh, that's what
I look like from that angle, or this is what
I look like in this lighting. It's just like a
it's a piece of information. It's not something to feel
all about.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh that is that's a goal for me because this
new world of pictures and sharing them with the world,
it is tougher, I mean tougher to sort of take
that perspective, but that's a really valuable one to take.
It's like, that's what I look like at that moment
and moving on. Yes, yes, So the final final question
(39:22):
it has to do with sort of the the concept
of confidence coming from this focus on self and self
care and beauty. How are you thinking about Mobby and
building confidence within him. How do you as a parent
feel that What are you pouring into him to sort
(39:44):
of encourage him to be confident.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, one of the things that my husband and I
have started doing, which it's so cute to see his
reaction that we talk about him kind of behind his back,
but while he can hear, so like he'll be kind
of like playing or drawing like he's within earshot. But
I'll say, you know, Mavi did the coolest thing today.
He came up to me and he told me x
y z or you know I was I was watching
(40:09):
MAVII earlier and he didn't my little wow, Mafy did that.
You know, I've been noticing that Mafi has been really
curious about x y Z and you know, we look
at his face and we can see that he's hearing
it and he'll usually like come over and interrupt and
they'll say, well, no, I was doing this and that.
But like we've been doing that, and I feel like
he's at the age now where that's meaningful to him,
(40:30):
us having this kind of behind his back compliment sessions
that we do. So that's one of the things that
we've been doing to grow his confidence. And then I
think the other thing is I try to really acknowledge
his boundaries. He We recently took him to the Santa
Monica Pier and he was really excited at first because
(40:50):
of all of the rides and there were lots of rides.
He qualified for it because he was tall enough, but
as we got closer and closer, he was like, it's
it's going too fast. I'm scared. I don't I actually
don't want to do it. And at first I was
kind of pushing him, like, well, let's try, let's try,
let's do it, and he was like, no, no, I
actually don't want him. He did one with his dad
(41:11):
and afterwards he came off. I could tell he was
not happy. It wasn't this like, oh, I'm happy I
pushed through the fear and did it. He said no,
And I said, you know, Mavi, I really want to
commend you on expressing to us what your boundaries were
and telling mommy and daddy how you felt and that
you weren't comfortable. It's so good that you used your
voice to speak up and share with us that you
(41:33):
weren't comfortable, and that's going to serve you, you know, throughout
your life. So just acknowledging even when he's able to
set boundaries with us, what a big deal that is,
and like celebrating that, not just celebrating they like, oh,
you did the scary thing, but also celebrating when he
doesn't want to do the scary thing because he's been
able to communicate.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
That yes, yes, no, that is really great. As he
gets a little older, it'll be interesting to see how
his personality continues in terms of of is interested in
doing things. My daughter was very shy when she was young,
and I used to jokingly call her the no girl
because she would really Her instinct was I don't want
(42:12):
to try it. I don't want to do it. You know, no,
thank you. And while I respected that for sure, when
she was in preschool, the head of the school told
me that she was an observer and I should respect that.
She didn't wasn't one to run into things first, you know,
to run into the center of a group of kids,
or run into or be the first to raise her hand,
but her observation powers would serve her well, and that
(42:35):
I should respect those. I mean, she being more of
an my daughter, be more of an introvert, and I'd
be more of an extrovert. I was cautioned to not
put myself on her. However, I did find as she
got older, I feared that she was missing out on
some opportunities because her instinct was so strong to say no.
And so while I definitely respected the no instinct, I
didn't ever try to make her feel badly about not
(42:56):
wanting to do something. There were some instances where ultimately
I had to say, I really wish that you would
just try this once, and I promise if it doesn't
if you don't like it, if it's going to be safe,
you know, can we talk about what you don't like
about it and please let's just try it so that
you can say yes. I absolutely don't ever have to
do that again. So I say all that to say
(43:17):
that you're right. It's absolutely important for a little one,
particularly a three year old's impressive that you can sort
of use his voice and say no and that you
respect it, because that's really important. I mean, you can't
squash someone's instincts, but it'll be interesting to see if
they develop on their own. There may come a time
when you have to do a little more massaging, but
(43:39):
you're right, it's really important to make them. The confidence
grows when they feel like they say something and people
listen and it matters. So that's really important. So final
question for you, because when I told people I was
going to be talking with you, everyone's so excited because
they love your podcast and they and they also feel
(43:59):
very interested and engaged, and these are younger women who
are similarly situated. So you've talked about this little in
terms of the things you do, But do you have
any advice for women who have not established all the
wonderful sort of rituals that you have that get you
through the day, but they're struggling to find time for
themselves while caring for young children and working and juggling
(44:23):
the rest of their life. I mean, is there any
is there any kind of sort of baby steps that
they can take towards towards self care.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
I think for super just like type A ambitious mothers
that are juggling a million things, I think you have
to schedule it. Actually make it a block in your schedule.
If you're going to take that twenty minute walk or
thirty minute walk around the neighborhood, actually put it in
your calendar. I don't know about you, Carol, but I
(44:56):
like I live and die by my calendar, Like if
it's if it's on the calendar, happening, you know, and
telling other people around you, So telling your partner, telling
anyone who could potentially like impede on that time that
this is a meeting. I have set the same way
you would have a dental appointment, and you wouldn't just
say like, oh, I'm not going to go. You have
to show up for yourself with the same importance that
(45:17):
you would show up for a medical appointment for And
that is how I've been able to treat things like
doing my you know, afternoon hike slash walk. I think
that scheduling it and putting it on your calendar, and
even if you just start with, okay, every Wednesday for
thirty minutes, I'm going to just take a walk outside,
I think that's like a great place to start, even
(45:41):
scheduling things like I always have these shows that I
know that my husband's not going to be interested in,
but I want to walk and I don't want to
wait for him, and I know I may not have
the time. So sometimes I'll even say, like, Okay, I've
been hearing about this new you know show on Hulu
from Thursday from eight to nine after dinner. Once mobi's
I'm going to like check out this show and then
(46:03):
I'm going to call a girl friend and catch up.
But I instead of waiting for that time to magically arise,
I'll text my friend, Hey, are you free Thursday? For
just like a quick catchup. Just scheduling it and like
putting it on your calendar and treating it as an
appointment that you have to show up for. I think
is a game changer.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Oh that is such such great advice. Two things you said,
which which I which resonate deeply. You have to schedule
it and you have to show up for yourself, just
like you would for any other appointment. That is so good, Brook.
I knew this would be amazing. It is amazing. You
are amazing. I thank you so much. Talk to you, really, really,
(46:40):
I thank you. I'm going to wrap it up here,
but before we go, I'm going to ask you to
play as I ask all my guests to play the
GCP Lightning Round. So I have four quick questions. Are
you ready.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Okay? First, your favorite home or saying.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Okay. So this is from Tick not Han, who is
a Buddhist scholar and author, and one of my favorite
quotes from him is to be beautiful means to be yourself.
You don't need to be accepted by others, You need
to accept yourself. And I just love it's really the
first part of that for me, Like, to be beautiful
(47:21):
means to be yourself. I think we live in a
world where there's so much about like external beauty, and truly,
the people that are the most beautiful are beautiful because
they are themselves and you don't. You really don't need
any external validation. Like accepting yourself is the whole game.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Oh. Absolutely, Oh that's great. That's great. Your favorite two
children's books from either when you grew up with or
when'd you read to mab or that you read to
the baby to be the baby that's coming?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, so my favorite. I wonder if you know this book,
I'm Mufaro's Beautiful Daughters. Do you know this well?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I know it only because I've heard of it from
other guests who have made it one of their favorites.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
That was my favorite growing up. Just so beautifully illustrated,
really just like an immersive, beautiful story. But I really
appreciate illustrations, I'm realizing as now a consumer of children's books.
And then for MAVII, this book I actually brought it.
It's called Bodies Are Cool by Tyler Fetter. Oh, I'm
(48:24):
going to read from some of it?
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yes, please do it?
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Is you know, teaching kids about diversity, I think is
really hard and this one was a good so you'll
you'll understand as I'm reading it. So big bodies, small bodies, dancing, playing,
happy bodies. Look at all these different bodies. Bodies are cool,
Lanky bodies, squat bodies, tall, short, wider, narrow bodies, somewhere
in the middle. Bodies. Bodies are cool, round bodies, muscled bodies,
(48:52):
curvy and straight bodies, jiggly wiggly, fat bodies. Bodies are cool.
It goes on to talk about leg hair, leg hair,
armpit hair, fuzzy lip and chin, hair, brows, meat in
the middle. Hair. Bodies are cool. And all of these
incredible illustrations. Oh, just these different body types and different.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Oh great, it gets into you know, now I wish
this were a visual podcast because it really they're beautiful.
Oh my goodness, there's a picture, a depiction of a
little girl who has videligo. Oh that's so beautiful. What
a great yes, what a great thing.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Wow, it's amazing. And even this with this one about legs,
thick legs, scrawny legs, knobby knees and long legs, roll
up to the table. Legs. Bodies are cool and for
the roll up to the table legs. You see you know,
a little boy in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
You know, it's just just showing like we're all different,
we all have different we all exist in different bodies,
and it's all cool and interesting and something to be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yes, No, I love that. I love that that. The
refrain is that bodies are cool. I mean that that
is because you you can notice these things in the
world and not not say that it's great. I mean
you could say, oh, someone's tall, someone's fat, someone's more,
but to say it's cool afterwards, it's it's a very
good message, a very good message. Yeah, okay, good. I'm
(50:17):
gonna make sure that I put this this book in
the notes so that people can find that I didn't
know that book. So the author is Tyler Tyler, Okay, bodies,
bodies are great. Okay. So here I need two mom moments.
I need a mom moment that you'd love to do over.
And what I mean by that is if you could
do it again differently, you would. Yes.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
For me, it was definitely the pressure I put on
myself around breastfeeding and exclusively breastfeeding. I just drove myself
a little bit crazy. I got like a hospital grade pump.
I mean I pumped as much as I could, I
fed as much as I could, I did power pumping,
but I just simply did not have enough milk to
(51:04):
meet my child's demands. So I supplemented both formula, and
I think I just wasted a lot of time feeling
guilty about that. And you know, breastfeeding is so beautiful
and if you can exclusively breastfeed, that is amazing, but
if you can't, that is also okay. And I don't
(51:25):
think I gave myself enough a grace around that specific topic.
So I would I would do that over and just
have a lot less shame and guilt about that.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Oh good. It's a continuation of that desire for women
to sort of make you feel like something terrible is
going to happen with respect to pregnancy or childbirth. It's like,
if you don't do if you don't breastfeed, something horrible
is going to happen. I know statistically that doing it
longer can be helpful, it can be healthy for the baby,
and it's a good thing. But it but it's everybody's choice.
(51:57):
I mean, you do not have to breastfeed for ever.
I mean, it should be I think your body your choice.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
So and if mom's not happy, no one's happy, right right?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
No exactly. And then finally a moment when you knew
you nailed it as a mom.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Oh, I would say recently, just sharing with Mavi that
he was going to be a big brother, his instant
one excitement, but the way that he was immediately like
can I help with the bottle? Like, you know, can
I help get the baby to sleep? Like what lullabies
will I do? I think when my husband and I
kind of looked at each other we were like, wow,
like he's become such a thoughtful, you know, little person,
(52:36):
and the fact that he's asking all of these questions
and just immediately went to like how can I help?
We were like, Okay, I feel like we're doing a
good job.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Oh. Absolutely, absolutely, He's going to be a great big brother.
So exciting. So Brook, I thank you again so much,
great answers, great conversation, and thanks so much for being
with us today.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Thank you for the great and thoughtful question. I love
this podcast. I'm happy to join all of these incredible
parents you've interviewed so far. And yeah, this is just
I mean, what a great topic talk about something you
can talk about forever and ever parenting.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Good, good luck, and God blessed with the new baby.
Oh I should also say for any parents who are
listening who have not yet heard your podcast Naked Beauty,
please go hear it now. It's amazing and check you
out on check Naked Beauty and your Instagram because I'm
sure when the baby comes we will know.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yes exactly yes Brooks of Art on all platforms and
Naked Beauty new episodes every Monday, so definitely check that out.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Oh great, we will. Thanks again. I hope everyone listening
enjoyed this conversation that you'll come back for more. Please subscribe,
rate and review where you find your podcasts and tell
your friends. For more parenting info and advice, please check
out the Ground Control Parenting website at www. Groundcontrolparenting dot com.
You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at
(53:59):
ground Control Parenting and a LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis.
Until the next time, take care and thanks for listening.
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