The New Brownies' Book with Dr. Karida L. Brown and Charly Palmer

Carol welcomes noted scholar Dr. Karida L. Brown and award-winning artist Charly Palmer to the podcast to give us a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at their creation of The New Brownies’ Book: A Love Letter to Black Families. This book is their contemporary reimagining of W.E.B. Du Bois’ art and literary magazine, which he created for children in 1920 to share Black history and celebrate their identities. The New Brownies’ Book is a collection of contemporary essays, poems, photographs, paintings, and short stories reflecting on the joy and depth of the Black experience. Carol talks with Karida and Charly about the making of this book and how it continues the legacy of presenting Black art and culture for all to share and enjoy. For families, as well as Black art and culture enthusiasts everywhere, this is a must-listen episode about a must-have book!



Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground ControlParenting, a blog and now a podcast
created for parents raising black and brownchildren. I'm the creator and your host,
Carol Sutton Lewis. In this podcastseries, I talk with some really
interesting people about the job and thejoy of parenting. Today, I am
so thrilled to welcome Carita L.Brown and Charlie Palmer to the podcast.

(00:26):
I have invited them here to talkabout a wonderful and exciting project and book
that they've just completed that all GCPparents and parents everywhere are definitely going to
want to know about. But beforewe get to that, let me first
give a proper introduction to this amazingspousal team. Yes, it's husband and
wife. Krita L. Brown isa sociologist, professor, oral historian,

(00:50):
and public intellectual whose research centers onthe examination of systemic racism and the fullness
of black life. She's the authorof Gone Home, Race and Roots Throughout,
in which she explores the stories ofAfrican Americans living and working in Appalachian
coal towns. A native New Yorker, Careta is a Temple University graduate who
turned to sociology after a brief careerin the commercial insurance industry, and thank

(01:14):
goodness, she did turn to sociology. She returned to school and got a
master's in Government administration from UPenn MayamaMada and her pH d in sociology from
Brown University. She's currently a professorof sociology at Emory University, where she
teaches undergraduate and graduate courses on raceand racism, sports and society, and
historical archival records. Carita's husband,Charlie Palmer, is a visual artist whose

(01:37):
artwork has been showcased and heralded globallyfor decades. Born in Fayette, Alabama
and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,his long time passion for art led him
to study at the American University ofArt and School of Art and Institute in
Chicago. He's been a celebrated painterfor many years, and I'll just highlight
a few of his recent works.In twenty twenty, he was selected to
create the July twenty twenty cover forthe America Must Change issue of Time magazine.

(02:01):
In that same year, he illustratedthe cover art for John Legend's Grammy
Award winning studio album Bigger Love.He's illustrated a great many children's books,
including The Teacher's March. How Selma'sTeachers Changed History by Sundra Wallace. My
Rainy Day rocket Ship by Marquette Shepherd, There's a Dragon in My Closet by
Dorothya Taylor. And I Can Writethe World by Joshanda Sanders. He's written

(02:24):
and illustrated The Legend of Gravity,a children's book, and he's even created
the illustrations on a favorite video game, MBA two K twenty twenty two.
He's also taught design and illustration andpainting at Spelman College. Charlie has said
this about his practice. I putall my focus, energy and love into
us. I'm an extremist when itcomes to the love of black people.

(02:47):
Charlie and Careta reside in Atlanta,GA. Welcome to Ground Control Parenting,
Kreta and Charlie. I'm so happyto have you guys here. Dan,
it's a pleasure to be here.Thank you, girl. We're so happy
to be here too. I'm reallyreally thrilled and I can't wait to talk
about your project. So together youhave produced the New Brownies Book, which

(03:09):
is a book that you've designed foryoung people, which is an anthology of
the work of more than fifty contemporaryBlack artists and writers. It's a book
that is bursting with essays and poemsand photography and paintings and short stories reflecting
on the joy and the depth ofthe black experience. And I'm going to

(03:30):
say this throughout this podcast that everyonelistening needs to while you're listening, find
a way to order this book.It is amazing. But we'll go more
into why that is. So thefirst thing I want to ask you guys
about this book is that I knowit's called the New Brownies Book and has
a very special history in and origin. Can you talk about the original publication

(03:53):
and the genesis of your inspiration forthis book. The original Brownie's Book was
actually created and founded by none otherthan W. E. B. Du
Bois while he was in his postworking for The Crisis magazine as its editor
in chief, and he produced theBrownies Book alongside Augustus Grimville Dill and Jesse

(04:18):
Redmond Fawcett, and together they launchedthis children's periodical that was an offshoot of
the Crisis but focused on Black children, what du Boys call Children of the
Sun. So the magazine, ashe stated it was for all children,

(04:39):
but especially hours and The Brownies Bookran for a year and a half and
it was the very first children's periodicalthat focused on African American children as a
matter of joy and consequence. Sothis new Brownies Book is really you know,
it's not a creation, our inventionby me and Charlie. We are

(05:02):
one hundred years later shepherding this heirloomthat belongs to all of us as one
of the first black children's periodicals ever. But we made it into a coffee
table book and an absolutely beautiful one. It is. I want to just
stay back in the history for aminute, because let's just think about this.

(05:24):
It's nineteen twenty and w eb duBois is publishing Crisis Magazine, which
is a magazine of the NAACP,and so one can only imagine all of
the stories of the day that werein the Crisis magazine. So black people
in nineteen twenties are dealing with allsorts of strife, and at the same

(05:44):
time, he understands the importance ofpouring art and culture into the children of
the nineteen twenties, and in theground control parenting world, I all often
talk about the need for parents toreally moore our culture into our children.
It's what roots us, it's whatgives our children confidence to go forward.

(06:05):
And just imagine that one hundred yearsago the germ of this began and the
thoughts were born there. And thatquote which you mentioned for all children,
but especially for hours. I'll haveyou know, I did not know of
the book. I'll confess before Imet you guys and understood what you were
doing. That quote so resonates withme. I've borrowed it to talk about

(06:29):
ground trope parenting. I certainly giveI give props to the origins, but
the concept of it's for everyone,but it is especially for our children.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe artists who were in the original Brownies
book, the poets, the people, the culture providers that he included.
Okay, one of the things thatwe could talk about is the legendary in

(06:54):
Linkston Hughes, and he corresponded withthe boys to the publication, but he
was still in high school when theboys decided it was time for him to
be a part of this publication.So his very first poem and story and
several afterwards were produced in the BrowniesBook. I think if we were to

(07:16):
really dig deep, there would beso many people that we've discovered that became
huge and well respected in their field, but started with this because there's also
wonderful images of baby pictures and thentheir high school graduation pictures. But then
there are all these submissions, includingcollege students that submit stories. So at

(07:36):
some point we will probably sit downand go through and kind of figure out
who these people became people of notelater on in life, right I mean?
And I'll also add Hilda Blue Wilkerson, the black woman Artists who Find
Artists, who spent much of hertime on Marcus Vineyard and that was a

(07:58):
lot of the subject matter of herwork. She joined on the Brownies Book
team as the illustrator editor for thebook and of her works in the original
Brownies book, and also Jones.Yes, so there's a wonderful tidbit in
the original Brownies Book where she wasin high school in Boston and she had

(08:24):
won an art award, just somethingrecognizing her budding potential, and do Boys
republished that and celebrated that in theBrownies Book. Later we know what Maylu
Jones goes on to do, buthe was actively seeking out not only established

(08:45):
literati of the Harlem Renaissance, whoare well represented in the Brownies book,
but he was finding young black talentand giving them their first publishing opportunity or
public recognition. About all the wonderfulking is that we were producing all around
the country. Now, I'm goingto put a pin in that because I

(09:07):
want to talk about how you aredoing similarly in your version of it.
But just tell me a bit ofhow you came to find this book.
I mean, how did you discoverit? And then what led you to
want to have a one hundred yearslater version of it. This book is
very much a part of our lovestory, even more than we recognized during

(09:28):
the time when we were producing it. Charlie and I, when we first
met, our relationship really grew outof art deep, long conversation much about,
you know, just the condition ofblack folks in America and around the
world. And two weeks ago Ijust wanted to go down memory lane.

(09:50):
So I looked at our very earlycorrespondent and I found a March twenty seventeen
email that said, you know,Babe, I you asked the question,
if I were ever to write achildren's book, what would it be about?
And in that email, I say, well, I wouldn't quite make
a new children's book, per se, I would revive the Brownies book,

(10:13):
And I shared a link of theoriginal Brownies book from the Library of Congress,
and at the end it says weshould do this. Oh, and
that, you know, kind ofjust faded into the background of my subconject
Yeah, we didn't ask before werevisited it, but then I was sharing
with one. I think if youlook at the bio, my brief bio

(10:35):
in the Time magazine, I mentionedlike when it says what do you have
coming up? I mentioned, we'reworking on this project together, and at
that point we hadn't started it yet. It's like, Okay, now that
we've made a national announcement that we'reworking on this book, it's time to
get started. Oh, you spokeit into existence. So and Kreta,

(10:58):
I know your discovery of this bookwas based on research you were doing.
Is that correct? You you wereyou had you were, Were you studying
other works of Dubois or absolutely?Yes. I am a du Boisian scholar.
Proudly I'm a sociologist. And whatsome people don't know is du Bois
was a sociologist and a founding scholarof the discipline, so I'm really proud

(11:24):
to come from his tradition particularly.And during that time, this twenty sixteen
twenty seventeen period, I was workingon the research for a book with my
co author, jose Isexon. Thebook is now published, The Sociology of
W. E. B. DuBois, but that's an academic text about

(11:48):
du Bois's scholarship. But it wasthrough that research for the book that I
discovered letters that du Boys was writingback in the back in nineteen twenty and
where he was literally like begging,you know, big name folks of the
Harlem Renaissance, to saying, hey, I need a piece of your best

(12:09):
work. And I might not beable to pay you for a year or
so or maybe not. Ever,however, our children need to know that
we're thinking about them and if they'reloved. And what stood out to me
was not only that the Boys wasdoing this, that he was specific He
didn't want some work or some reyou know, already used work. He

(12:31):
wanted original work that was their bestfor our children. And that, Carol,
quite frankly, brought me to tearsbecause it reoriented my idea of what
my responsibility as a scholar was ifyou boys, with all that he was
doing, could make time to centerblack children. Okay, So I'm not

(12:54):
that booked and busy. Okay.So that leads me into the next question
about So, no, now youyou've gotten the charge, it's been put
in print, you're making this book. How did you take that mandate that
that he had of the best workof really great people? How did you
decide whom to include? I knowyou brought some people forward because there's work

(13:16):
from Langton Hughes in the book,and but how did you determine who should
whom to ask and who you'd wantedto include in the book? You know
what, when we initially started talkingabout the book, and when we have
initially started to even promote the book, we had had several conversations with our

(13:37):
agent at the time, which wasRegina Brooks, and we were talking about
what celebrities, what well known peoplewould be willing to contribute. But then
we started thinking, Karita and Iparticularly started thinking who do we already know?
And then like, we've never reallygiven serious thought to our rold index
and so we like we begin tosay they are really a published writers,

(14:01):
artists, very successful in their fieldsthat are out there that are personal friends
of ours. So let's compose aletter. And like she always says that
the boys begged, But it's like, if you can imagine if I was
the other era of like old enoughto be an artist, when Martin Luther
King send me a letter saying I'mgonna need your best and that's not beggae,

(14:28):
Like who am I to say no? And I can imagine who am
I to say no to the boys, you know, and asking can you
give this? And I'm not goingto pay you? And so that was
kind of how we approached it.We approached it from the standpoint of we
had love and respectful the people thatwe reached out to. Quite honestly,
we realized afterwards there were several peopleon our list that we never got to

(14:52):
because we realized there was only somuch room, and so we like,
I think about it all the timenow, they're like certain people that I
wish I had asked, And thatjust means it's probably going to be a
sequel or a volume two. Itwas just going to say yeah, But
I look at that and I realizedthere's so many people that are also very

(15:13):
close friends. But I think Iliterally almost went alphabetically through my rolodex or
through my phone and was surprised thateveryone pretty much said yes. And so
before I could even get to thecertain people had already we'd already had enough
of commitment from very outstanding wish listof people. We'll be right back after

(15:35):
these messages, welcome back to theshow. This is the one circumstance where
I wish this weren't just audio,because I am literally holding the book and
the podcast listeners aren't able to seeit. But I will say, first
of all, it's a beautiful,beautiful book. I mean, I so
appreciate that you guys decide to makethis a coffee table book, because remember,

(16:00):
listeners, this was a magazine.It's a beautiful book that every family
will want to treasure. So thedecision to make it into a hard bound,
beautiful, large book, beautifully illustratedfrom a lot of different artists,
and certainly with Charlie's art in it, which is magnificent, was a really
important one. And I appreciate thatbecause I mean, I don't want to

(16:22):
overstate this, but because of thetreasures that are within, it's really important
that they be bound in something thatlooks like it should be preserved. Our
history is so important and it isso rich, and it's as important for
us to recognize this. So Ijust want everyone not only do you have
to buy this, but you haveto hold on to it and you have
to pass it down because you know, because it's interesting. It's really the

(16:47):
work inside is for children, butthe book itself is really not a book
you would hand to a five yearold. I mean, it's a book
that is designed for an older personto read to younger people. And was
that intentional as well? Whom didyou have a vision would be reading and
using this book? We always intendedfor the New Brownies Book to be an
intergenerational book and to be a bookthat families could activate, meaning that the

(17:15):
stories within that book and the artwithin the book should activate discussion across generations,
should draw memories. There are certainnuggets in that book that are from
my grandparents' era. There's a sectionof black folks sayings that kids today probably
have never heard or don't know whatthey mean. And that's the point.

(17:37):
It's about being a little archive ofnuggets of our long tradition and celebrating that.
So there's some new school, oldschool. But it is intentionally meant
for families to engage with children.So yes, absolutely, you we want

(17:57):
them engaging with the Brownie's book ontheir own and at their reading level or
at their level of understanding with theart. But the point is to,
you know, ford to boment discussion. But I also imagine, I just
imagine, like when I was akid, I was fascinated by books before
I could read them, and allI needed were pictures, and sometimes I

(18:19):
found myself making up my own storiesbased on the pictures I saw in those
books, and so I think that'sthe same thing here. I imagine every
time I think about the book,now, all these surprises, you know,
you're you're not going to get thesame thing each page. It's not
going to be repetitive. There's asection on a Nasia spider by Dimitri Birds,

(18:42):
but it's not just the image ofhim Anansi. It is the progressive
development of what he should look like. And it was never a planned when
it came to the book to showall that. He showed us the research
leading up to the illustration, andwe love the research so much as we

(19:03):
knew it needed to be in abook or the comic strip on I Don't
want to be Black Anymore. It'sa powerful statement. But when you look
at the image and everything, itbegins to make sense because we are looking
through the eyes of a child whois seeing what is going on with black
families and black bodies, but wehave I think about all the humor that

(19:23):
is inside this book, but Ialso think about the truth that's in it
because we deal with death and dyingand sadness. You know, for me,
it's very warming every time I lookat the book to see there's a
section of my mom's handwritten recipes.My mom's been gone since she saw Obama
get elected, but she didn't seehim going to office. She passed in

(19:45):
between that period, and like,my mom will live on forever now because
she's in this book and the waythe designer incorporated it, it's just a
natural fit within the books. FrankieBeverly amazed to be proud of this book
by saying that it covers the fullhuman experience through black cultural expression, joy,

(20:11):
pain, sunshine, and rain.Absolutely absolutely, So, I want
to back track on just a fewthings. You guys pointed out a lot
of things that I want to talkabout first of all, the folks sayings.
Yes, there is the opportunity forinteractivity throughout this book, but when
I got to the section on folkssayings, it really won my heart because

(20:33):
I knew most of them. Ididn't know some of them. But to
your point, it will create conversationsand families like what does your family say
or what do you remember hearing whenyou grew up? And for our children
that are being raised in different environmentswhere they don't have as much access to
all of their history around them,it's a good way to draw them back

(20:53):
in. I mean, you know, I want my children and my grandchildren
to know the Black Done crack,and so it's important that even though I'm
not walking around saying that every day, I need them to understand and I
know what that means when they hearit. So there's that and the Anansi
series. Now, I think Irecall you guys saying that the illustrator is

(21:15):
fairly young. Is that right.He's somebody that I've been I've mentored for
several years while he was still incollege. Now he's been out there as
a professional for about four years.But like when it came to even as
a as a mentee, I've gonethrough a lot because my commitment, again,
even when it comes to mentoring,is give me a black student.

(21:37):
And I've had lots of challenges goingthrough this. But he was by far
one of the very best interns I'veever had. He worked hard, he
showed up, he asked lots ofquestions, he was very honest about his
thoughts and his feelings. But evenin the case of that, he was
thorough. So he was very thoroughwhen it came to what he did there.
It was like, this is absolutelybeautiful. So and I think the

(22:02):
Dmitriy might be twenty five now heis, he's still really young. And
what I love about the old folkssaying that was done by a twenty two
year old And we did not tellher what to illustrate, Brion, And
we didn't tell her what to illustrate. We just said, read these sayings
and then do your illustrations. Butlike, I look at it, and

(22:25):
my favorite one is if I'm I'mflying. It's just something about that was
it's hilarious to it. It's agreat illustration of that that expression. For
sure. It's fascinating though, becauseyou know, I certainly knew the nanci
the Spider stories, and certainly everybodyknows the concept of Spider Man as a

(22:48):
as a as a character. Butin these works you really begin to understand
the beauty of the Spider, hisimage of a Nazi's hair, and how
his locks are sort of spider like, you know, all these different lots.
It just I mean you to yourpoint, Charlie about just looking at
the pictures, just flipping through thepictures about Nancien the Spider. Really,

(23:11):
I mean it starts conversation. Iwant to have conversations about it just looking
at it. But I can imaginefamilies just really focusing on everything from the
science of the Spider to how itrelates to what the children know about Spider
Man. I mean, really,it's really it is as you say it.
It's truly interactive and you could justpick a small section of it on

(23:34):
a regular basis, you know,find something new in every section. And
the thing that I really want totell you that so warmed my heart and
I saw this when I first slippedthrough the book. But you have a
section here and it's called It's writtenby the two of you. Portraits and
biographies and you have a series ofsmall bios of black women throughout history,

(24:03):
and some of whom are well known, and others who are not as well
known, but everyone who should beknown. And I one of my dear
friends, actually she's been a gueston this podcast, doctor Sharon Malone,
and I was so proud to showher that her sister, Vivian Malone Jones,
was featured in this book. AndVivian Malone Jones or the University of

(24:29):
Alabama's first black student. She wentthrough what we can only imagine it would
take to walk up those stairs andenter the university. But it was so
wonderful for me to show Sharon thispicture of her sister in this book.
And I'm sure there will be somuch of that for so many people who
are who are reading this book becauseit is it's at once kind of there's

(24:52):
the joy of discovery of all ofthe interesting information, and there's also the
joy that it exists. You knowthat not only that it exists, but
that you guys have taken the timeto actually compile all this and presented to
us. So, I mean,can you tell I'm a super fan.

(25:15):
I'm definitely a superman. I amsmiling from ear to ear. Right now,
from sharing that bit of information,the reason why we have that chapter
on black women is because of ayoung woman who was then a freshman student
at Spelman. She's going into herjunior year now, Chase Malone, and

(25:37):
she is the niece of Vivian Ah, and she recommended to us that we
should have something substantial in the BrowniesBook that recognizes the contributions of black women
because they are often, you know, not given enough of their props,
and let's give them their flowers inthe book. And she has a credit
in the book as well. Butthat's the purpose of this book is a

(26:00):
supposed to be a call and response, and what you just share with us
is exactly what we wanted for theBrownie Suppose. So thank you. I
think the thing is that like Careaderbrought to my attention, if you can
imagine, because it was a periodical, there was a call and response,
and literally there were times when theseyoung people would send letters to the boys

(26:22):
asking questions, Hey, my parentsare really mean, what should I talk
to? How can I talk tothem? But he would take the time
out of this crazy schedule of histo respond to them, and so That's
the thing that we're realizing more thananything now that the book has been produced,
is that there's going to be alot of questions and what do we
do? What can we create sowe can respond to them. We're definitely

(26:45):
going to everywhere we go. We'regoing to bring a mailbox with us,
and we're going to ask people adultsand children, like children in particular,
write a letter about any thoughts youhave. But to the adults, write
a letter to your younger self.M So I'll put this out in the
ether, into the universe, becausethat's how this book became a thing.

(27:10):
Part of where this project is goingis we intend to create a Brownie's Archive
of Black Joy that we'll be ableto capture some of the responses to the
Brownies book and also activated in differentways. This should be an ongoing conversation
and we intend to see that pieceof it through as well. Oh.

(27:33):
That is wonderful and very important,and I can't tell you how happy that
makes me because this book, itreally it is a physical embodiment of so
much of what I believe in andwhat I've talked about through ground control parenting,
and that is being able to giveour children, the understanding of how
rich our culture is, how muchwe have to offer, and the joy

(27:59):
of it all. And there isnot there's not a page that you can
flip through in this book without joybeing part of your response. Literally,
you could walk, you could flipthrough this not read a word of text,
and you're you're in the gallery.You're just enjoying the various and and
to your point about pictures sparking conversation, families can just sit and say what

(28:23):
do you think is happening in thisartwork? And what do you see?
And and this goes back to I'vehad lots of museum administrators on the podcast
talking about how you take your childrento museums and how you find things in
the artwork. And this is agreat opportunity for parents to do this at
home. Just flip through the bookand look at the artwork and just talk

(28:45):
about it. There's no right answer. It's really to spark your children's imagination.
So I didn't grow up in ahousehold with fine art on the walls.
There were certainly pictures of Martin LutherKing and Malcolm X up like that,
but fine art. I did nothave a palette or vocabulary for that,
and we didn't grow up with booksnecessarily in the home. My mom

(29:07):
took me to the library of aton, but we didn't have a library
in our house. And when thinkingabout the design elements of the Brownies book,
it was important for us to ifyou notice, with the art,
it has the name of the artistand the medium on each piece, so
that children and families can also acquirethat language of art and you know understand,

(29:33):
oh wow, I love watercolor orcarylic on canvas and photography. That
was important to represent the full literarycanon, from poetry to short stories,
to essays to what have you,and also as much of the fine art
canon, including abstracts in the book, just to show that there are no

(29:55):
limitations on what a black creative lookslike. We can create any and everything.
We're not limited exactly exactly it is, and that that is so well
demonstrated here. And I'm very gladyou were very careful to say when you
in each instance you list not onlywho did it, but how they did
it, what they used, howit was created, was it on a

(30:18):
canvas, was it sort of paperor was it an And to your point,
it's really important for children to understandthat, because it gives them license
to think about how they can createthings. I mean, you don't.
You can be an artist without paintand a canvas. You can be an
artist with pieces of paper. Youcan be an artist in so many different
ways. So I have to askyou guys this question just to wrap up.

(30:42):
Do you guys have favorite parts todo now? Charlie, Yours may
be with your mother's recipes, butdo you have any favorite sections that either
favorite to work on or favorite interms of how it came out? I
do. My favorite part is thatit is is truly a collective love letter

(31:02):
of resounding black love that these artistsand writers and our designer who laid out
the book, Kiera and Lewis who'sout in the UK, we all contributed
our best work to create this Brownie'sbook and it has truly come out as
a symphony. It works together andI love the collaborative, you know,

(31:30):
ego less spirit of the book.That's my favorite part about it. Good
answer, Charlie, do you havea do you feel similarly globally about that
question or any given day, Iwould give you a different answer, you
know, like when I said thatthe damage about if I'm lying, I'm

(31:52):
flying. That just brings smile tomy face. So I think about that,
and I think about the image ofthe four little girls walking this school
and Lenar Maiden piece walking past thefield, and it's just something warm about
that. And so there's all thiscontinuous as I'm opening and going through this
book, this reminder of how trulyblessed, special unique we are as a

(32:19):
folk, as a race of people, as human beings. Because this is
a book for us. But thebook isn't about being black. It's about
being And I think I'm very proudof the fact that it clearly lets anyone
who's looking at this book and appreciatingthis book see all kinds of different perspectives.

(32:39):
You know, so any given daythere's there's another favorite part. Those
are both very good answers, andyou know, to come full circle truly
this book. I love what yousaid about it. It's not about being
black, It's about being because itreally is for all children. I mean
in that there are there's beauty inthis book. There are wonderful poetry in

(33:04):
this book. As I said,you brought forward some Leangston Hughes work.
You have works of new poets,and it is for everyone, but it's
especially for our children in the sensethat it no one's going to be able
to read those folks sayings without somekind of smile, be it from the

(33:24):
illustrations, or from the expressions,or from their memories of their expressions where
weren't included but I'm sure they thinkshould have been. I mean, it's
it will touch It will touch everyonein a different way, which you couldn't
ask for more from a book.So I'm you know, this podcast could

(33:45):
be an hour long with me continuingto talk about how great this book is.
But by the time this podcast airs, it will be in all stores
and across all online platforms. Soyou like I may have chilled who are
no longer at home. I've gotmy children are grown and flown. But
I'll be giving this book to peoplewho don't have children because they need to

(34:08):
see it themselves. They need toenjoy the beauty what's in it. I
mean, seriously, this is notthis is a book for regardless of where
you are in terms of your family, you need to copy this book.
So anyway, with that, I'mgoing to thank you guys so much,
so much so much for being here. Best of luck with this book.
I look forward to watching it rollout and seeing the reaction to it because

(34:32):
it is such a wonderful book.And before we go, I just have
to ask you to play the GCPLightning Round. I have a truncated version
of the GC Lightning Round for you, DCP Lightning Ground for you. Okay,
so two quick questions, but Iwant each of you to answer both
questions. And the first question isgive me a favorite poem or saying.

(34:55):
Now, you have a lot tochoose from in the book, but you
don't even have to go in thebook if you have other ones. What
just came to mind as a poemthat I learned when I was a kid
by the next to us. Yes, that I still memorize. I play
a cool and dig all job.That's the reason I stay alive. My
model is is I live and learn, is dig and be dug and be

(35:15):
turned in a law that I don'tknow where that just can't I forget about
that. When I was very young, I learned that poem Wow mine is
saying that my mother used to alwayssay, because I was hard headed as
a kid, if it was asnake it would have bit you. Yep.

(35:37):
So I love both of those.I'm very impressed. I love the
poem. And yes, my motherwould say the same thing, yes,
because invariably, when I was lookingfor something swore I couldn't find it,
it was right there in front ofme. And so both of you give
me two of your favorite children's books, and it's fine to give them.

(36:00):
Have them all be associated with Charlie, or maybe there's a book that you
grew up with that still holds likethat poem, that still holds a special
place in your memory. For me, the first one would definitely be A
Snowy Day because it was the firsttime I saw a child that looked like
me, and I saw a woman, a heavy set black mother with hips

(36:22):
that looked like my mother. Andso I think when I first saw it,
I could not read. But thatwas one of those books I looked
at over and over again, andI didn't realize until many years later that
it actually formed the style and techniqueas an artist that I used today with
flat patterns and textures. But itnever crossed my mind. Heavy influenced me

(36:43):
that much. Wow, if Iwas to choose a second one, you
know, I would go with Ireally like I read, which is really
interesting. We're talking to her editorabout children and children's book right now.
She says that children's books should alwaysbe read out loud. And about a
month ago was probably the first timeI ever read, grabbed the Legend of

(37:04):
Gravity out loud. And when Idid, I'm like, this is really
a good book. I don't knowhow I did it, but it's like,
this book is really fun and especiallyreading' get out loud. And so
I would pick right now that I'mvery I really like a Legend of Gravity
great Ricky Tiki Timbo. There waschildren Do you know that book? Of

(37:27):
course, we very temple. Iread that in first grade. We were
reading aloud and I have read thatbook a trillion times in my household,
and I just love it for thejoy and the fun of it. I
love that book. And my secondfavorite book children's book was not a children's

(37:50):
book, but I read it asa child at eight years old. Their
Eyes Were Watching God by Zora nelHurston. That was the first chapter.
Eight years old. Wow. AndI don't know how I got my hands
on the book because it wasn't inmy home. You know, it must
have gotten it from the library.But I sat and read that book.
I remember my cells felt electrified asI'm reading it, and it was just

(38:15):
my imagination was exploding. And thatwas the portal for me into black literature
and I forever more just I justkept reading. But that was the book
that did it for me. Wow, woa those are great answers, and
so Karita Charlie, thank you somuch. Thank you for the new Brownies

(38:37):
book. Thank you for joining metoday and again, I can't wait until
the world gets to see this book. Thank you, Thank you for such
such enthusiasm. It makes us feellike we did something right well well good,
because you did. I hope everyonelistening enjoyed this conversation that you'll come

(38:58):
back for more. Please subscribe,rate and review where you find your podcasts
and tell your friends. For moreparenting infound advice, please check out the
Ground Control Parenting website at wwwgroundcontrol Parentingdot com. You can also find us
on Facebook and Instagram at ground ControlParenting and on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis.
Until the next time, take careand thanks for listening.