November 6, 2024 • 51 mins
Carol sits down with College Board experts Stacey Foney and Dr. Autumn Caviness to get their exclusive insights into the college admissions process, with a special focus on guiding Black families through this complex journey. Stacey and Autumn offer parents helpful answers to many admissions questions, including:
Links:
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com.
And don’t forget to subscribe to the Substack newsletter for behind-the-scenes info, bonus parenting tips, and more!
- When and how to start thinking about the college admissions process
- How standardized test scores fit in today’s process
- Scholarships, financial aid, and reducing college debt
- How to empower your children to find the best college match
Links:
Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.com.
And don’t forget to subscribe to the Substack newsletter for behind-the-scenes info, bonus parenting tips, and more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, we
have two experts with us to talk about a subject
which is near and dear to the hearts of many
(00:26):
parents of tweens and teens, especially teens college admissions. And
as the mother of three children, I have been through
three rounds of successful college admissions plus a coupolic grad school admissions,
I sincerely appreciate that parents need all the help we
can get with navigating the college missions process, and of
course I'm laser focused on what black parents need to
(00:48):
get through this process. So today I am thrilled welcome
too experts from the College Board, the not profit membership
organization that developed the SAT and the AP test and
helped more than seven million students a year navigate the
path from high school to college and career. So we
have with us Stacey Fannie, who's the director on the
College Board's Counselor Community Engagement Team. She is passionate about
(01:11):
helping students graduate on time and pursue their post secondary dreams,
especially those who are first generation and students who are
often overlooked. Stacey works for the Counselor Community Engagement Team
to support high school college counselors in their mission to
help students realize these goals. Stacey earned her bachelor's degree
from Dartmouth College, her master's degree in school counseling from
(01:33):
the University of Georgia, and a specialist degree in educational
leadership from the University of West Georgia. She is currently
working towards her pH d in councilor Education and Supervision
at Mercer University. We also have doctor Audum Cabanists who
is the director of Real Talk, which is a big
future career and college exploration initiative at the College Board,
and we'll get more into what that is all about.
(01:55):
Real Talk connects black students and families with black professionals
and representatives from colleges and access organizations across the country.
Doctor Cabnis holds a BA and MA in Communication from
Texas A and M University, and she received her PhD
and journalism and their Masters of Arts and Radio Television
Film from the University of Texas at Austin. Stacy and Autumn,
(02:17):
welcome to ground Control Parenting.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Thank you for having us, Yes, thank you, Echoing Stacy's sentiments,
super happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh great, And I am so happy to have you
both here. Now. I've spent a lot of time on
college admissions, as I said, personally with my kids, but
also I've moderated over the years many mini panels and
college admissions with college deans, and I've even chatted on
this podcast about this several times with the College Board President,
David Coleman. And as we all know, the world of
(02:47):
college admissions is a rapidly growing and changing one, and
so I'm really excited to dive into the current state
of affairs and admissions with both of you today. So
let's get started. I'm going to start with you, Stacey,
talk with you generally about this process. I mean, many
parents listening are new to it. Just the words strike
fear into their hearts, and we're here to assure you
(03:08):
that it should not so. But everyone does talk about
how tough the process is. What can you give me
a little this sense of the data behind college admissions?
What makes everybody feel this way? How hard is it
to get into college?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I love that you're starting with that question, and I
also love that you're saying it's going to be all right.
It is going to be all right. I think one
thing that feeds into it, Carol, is you know what
we see in the media and in our social media
and the blogs and all of that about how difficult
it is. And it is certainly overwhelming. And it has really,
(03:46):
honestly always been an overwhelming process. And the landscape, as
you mentioned, is changing, which makes it difficult to navigate
because of course when something is new or something is changing,
you know you're a little off kilter in terms of Okay,
I knew how this used to work, and I'm not
so sure how it works now. So I would say
(04:07):
the first thing I want parents to know is that
when you look at the average in terms of acceptances
for colleges, three out of four college applications are being
accepted by the colleges right And if you're looking at
public colleges is even higher. It's about seventy eight percent
of those applications that are submitted by students are being accepted.
(04:32):
But when you are watching the news or listening to
different individuals who are going through the process. What you're
hearing a lot about are those selective colleges, And so
those numbers for your selective colleges, they are very different.
When you're looking at your Ivy League colleges or other
highly selective schools. Those acceptance rates are single digits much
(04:55):
of the time. So what I would encourage parents to
number one, realize that's a small, small percentage of all
the thousands of colleges that are out there, and so
that would be the thing that would hope calms the
waters a little bit for parents, and knowing that the
bulk of the colleges out there are accepting three out
(05:19):
of the four applications, and of course that's an affort.
So there are some that are accepting more, some that
are accepting less, but everybody is not in single digits
like you're highly selective schools.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Now. Certainly, back in the dark ages when I applied
to colleges, then the mid rate was much higher. But
I have to believe that the common app which makes
a lot more colleges. The good thing about it is
it enables students to apply to a lot of colleges
at once. But that same thing that makes it good,
also makes those rates get smaller because if students can
(05:52):
apply to a lot of colleges at once, they will
put in a lot of colleges that they won't necessarily
even be a good fit for and that they won't
go to. And so, you know, schools that have name
brand recognition, really high name brand recognition have seen their
application levels skyrocket, but it's not necessarily because that many
(06:13):
more students would ordinarily be admitted to the school. I
think people just have the opportunity to throw in their
applications and they say why not. So this is just
to assure all the parents out there who are about
to dive into this process that you know, don't believe
the hype, do not sort of look at the even
the single digit schools, even the schools that have single
digit admissions, Yes they're very selective, but that percentage is
(06:37):
of the number of people that applied.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Absolutely, that is one hundred percent spot on. And I
think that does come from you know, though useful platforms
like the Common app where they can apply.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
To multiple schools.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's also a result of test optional right where now
students are applying to a lot more colleges and so
to your point, Carol, that makes that number of applications
much higher, but there's still really, for the most part,
the same number of seats, So that selectivity number, that
(07:14):
percentage of what they can accept, it does make that
much smaller when they have a lot more applications but
the same number of seats.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So Stacey, let's start at the beginning of college admissions.
And what I first want to dive into is when
parents should be concerned about this. You know, you hear
again that park Bench wisdom of people who start when
their kids are in elementary school or you know, lower school,
focusing on what's going to get them into college. At
what point, and I'm going to say, in the high
(07:44):
school process. I mean, maybe it's sooner, but at what
point should parents and students begin their focus on the
college process and how should they start?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Great question ninth grade or certain, but I want to
kind of go to like a little before ninth grade,
eighth grade, when they are sitting down with their middle
school counselor and selecting those courses for ninth grade, that
is really where it starts. Or if your child is
(08:15):
in a school where they are taking some high school
courses while in middle school, that's important. I would consider
that really the beginning of high school, though physically they
may not be in the high school building, but at
whatever point they are beginning high school courses, whether that's
seventh grade or eighth grade, that's when that high school
(08:35):
GPA begins. And so that's when I think parents really
should sort of be honing in on this process, paying
attention to the courses that their students are signing up for,
and then throughout the high school career adding more so
(08:55):
even though they might be taking high school courses in
seventh or eighth grade. You know, it's a low level
of intensity, right, not putting so much pressure on students,
because that's what our students are feeling. They are feeling
this anxiety and angst and overwhelm around this process, and
a lot of it is coming from the adults.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
We add this to our students, but gradually as it's
age appropriate, adding more focus and intentionality around what you
have your students doing.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Adam, I'm actually going to bring you in here now
just to have you give us the real talk perspective
on this. And before I do that, I just want
to help everyone understand how the college Board works. So
there's the Umbrella College Board organization which has the SAT
and the AP and sort of the testing on one end,
but they also have this Big Future program which focuses
(09:50):
on college guidance. And within Big Future there is Real Talk.
So can you tell us a little bit about Real Talk?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Absolutely, I love to say, and I say, this is
the daughter of an educator, and I've now worked and
had the auditor work with thousands and thousands of students from.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
High school to college level.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And I love to say that I get to live
my dream job, right, I really do. Because Real Talk,
as you stagely shared Carol, is housed in Big Future,
which is a part of College Board, and Real Talk
is our career and college guide for.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Black students and families.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And you know, I love to say sometimes when we
talk about HBC culture, we'll talk about the right, the illustrious,
the this. So I love to say it's the career
and college guide for Black students and families. And it's
available on Big Future dot org. And what you will
find when you come over to bigfacher dot org slash
real Talk is you will see videos right, short snippets
of videos and segments and articles and access tools that
(10:46):
are going to help students find their dream career or
students who are thinking about HBCUs how to fund their
education right. So you'll see our way of looking at
this through our three pillars on Big Future, and you'll
see will Talk looking at it in a way for
how do you explore careers right? How do you plan
for college? And ultimately how do you pay for college?
(11:08):
And here I have to share that since last year,
over nine thousand students and family members and we'd love
to say our caring adults have attended our Real Talk events.
So we have the online guide for Black students and families,
and we also do virtual events. And I love doing
our virtual events because they're free, they're virtual, they're all
(11:29):
across the country in terms of who we're connecting with.
And we had about twenty two institutions participate in our
Real Talk events over the past year, including eleven historically
black colleges and universities.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Oh wow, that's great. That's great. So I want to
ask both of you this question before we get too
deeply into this. Now, we're assuming that everyone listening has
an interest in having their child attend college, and I
certainly support that. But what happens as a parent if
your child doesn't know whether you want to go to college.
I'll start with you, Stacey. And what if they aren't
(12:01):
sure or they want to take some time. Are there
resources through the college board that they should look into
to sort of help them with that decision?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Number one, it's okay. I know we feel like our
children have to have everything worked out and planned while
they're in high school, but that number one just is
not the case.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
How many of us, even once we knew we were
going to college and we knew our major, how many
of us changed majors while we were in college. How
many of us have changed careers? Right? So number one,
it's okay if your child does not have it locked in,
because those first two years of college, for the most part,
are going to be your general courses anyway before they
(12:44):
get into a major. So number one, it's okay if
they're unsure. The second thing I would say is it's
also with this generation in particular, they're very different than
we were, Like you say, Carol it back in the
older days. They are more open to risk taking, They
see multiple pathways to success, whereas you know, our generation,
(13:07):
for the most part, we were locked in on four
year colleges the way to success. So I would say,
if you have a student who number one, they might
not be interested in a four year college or they're unsure,
it's okay explore that with them because there are multiple options.
There's two year college. From there they can transfer to
(13:28):
four year college, there's certificate programs, apprenticeships, and so I
would number one courage parents to expand their definition of college.
What we're really talking about is post secondary education and training,
and that includes a lot more than just four year colleges.
(13:50):
We want our students to work towards their passion how
they'll be successful, and I think as parents we just
have to sort of be more open and supportive of
what that could look like and realize that there are
multiple pathways to success and we are there supporting our
children as they explore all these different options.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And I'm in one hundred percent agreement with Stacy on this.
I always say to thine own self be true, and
when students really listen and caring adults are willing to
hear what students are really interested in, that makes the
process that much easier and simpler for everyone involved.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Right, And I'm just going to put myself in this situation.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right. I was a student who changed majors four times,
much to my parents' chagrin. Right, But I knew very
early on if we peel back the time, right, I
knew very early on that I wanted to do something
in communication. I wanted to do something in journalism, but
I wasn't necessarily confident to really holding in on that
voice and share, right because everyone was saying autumn, you
(14:58):
can't find success.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Way.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, my biggest, biggest piece of advice for your audience, Carol,
is to encourage the carrying adults to listen to their team.
And we have over at Big Future, we have our
career quiz, and I love our career quiz. You can
access it when you go to Big Future and just
tap under Explore Careers. The career quiz takes about fifteen
(15:21):
minutes and it's about sixty questions, fifty to sixty questions,
and you literally can find interest that resonate with you.
And so it's one of those things where Stacy was sharing.
You know, get started early even in middle school, thinking
about this process. But this is something where parents carrying
adults and their team can sit down together and take
(15:42):
that career quiz and then think through what some other
interests are and then go, Okay, maybe we'll spend the
summer working on this. If we like it, great, If
we don't, that's fine, and then come back and take
it again. And I think that gets us closer to
our north star, which in the end I believe saves
us all a lot of time, our most invaluable gift,
(16:03):
and it really honors that calling and the purpose that
I feel gen Z really is wanting to make happen
in their lives.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And I also want to add if I can, our
Big Future is college search tool. It has not only
four year colleges for students to explore, but it also
has I think over one thousand two year and certificate
programs to explore. So that tool on Big Future is
(16:30):
for every student, even that student who is sort of
on that bubble I'm not sure which way I want
to go. They can explore the wealth of different pathways
as they are trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I am a huge fan of quizzes. I love quizzes,
and if you pop over to Big Future, there are
three of them. The Career Quiz, as you said the
college quiz. There's also a scholarship quiz and parents, if
you can sit with your child when you're taking them,
when or when the child is taking them, you're not
taking them making them. When you sit with your child,
you can learn so much about what they're thinking. I mean,
you just have to be quiet. You can't influence them.
(17:06):
It's almost like there's a third party in the room,
an impartial third party that is that the child is
responding to. So you take away some of that tension.
And this quiz is a great way to start. So
I want to ask you both about I'm sticking with
parent interaction because you know, what I realize is it's overwhelming,
because a lot for everyone to deal with, But I
(17:27):
find that parents carry their own stress into it and
it has nothing to do with the children. Has to
do with their perspective on their college experience or if
they didn't have a college experience. And so I would
love to talk a little bit about how you would
advise parents to interact with everyone about the process, not
just their child. Stacy'll ask you first, and Autumn certainly
(17:48):
you can come in as well. How do you recommend
that parents interact with their schools about the process. I mean,
people who were all over it when they were applying
are going to want to be all over it when
their kids are. And then people who are intimidated by
the whole thing may want to just stay away as
long as possible. So what kind of advice and tips
can you give to parents as they try to figure
(18:08):
out where they belong in the puzzle.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
That's a great question. And I think my guidance for
each of those different groups of parents is different advice.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
So for that parent who wants to be the one
who's sometimes doing it for their students, and I like
what you said, Carol about the quizzes, you're not taking
it for them. And I remember this as a school counselor,
I had those parents where they just wanted to do
it for their students. I literally had one of my seniors,
(18:42):
and this was in the fall when I did my
one on one conference with them. I said, Okay, tell
me what schools you're thinking about. What schools are on
your list? He said, Miss Fani, I don't know. I said,
what do you mean you don't know? He said, my
mom did the list for me. I think there might
be five or six schools on the list, I don't
know what they are, and so that is certainly an
(19:04):
example of over involvement to the point the student didn't
even know which schools were on his list, and that
also leads to him not having buy in at all
in the process. He has no ownership in the process,
and then when he's on this campus, we don't know
if it's a good fit for him because there's just
been no involvement. So my advice for those parents who
(19:28):
want to do it for them is do not do
not as hard as it is right. And I had
some of that with my daughter where I wanted to
do the things, but we want to build capacity into
our young people, and so we aren't doing that when
we do it for them. And then for those parents
(19:49):
who are intimidating, because that is a thing. There are
parents out there, like you said, Ker who have had
negative experiences in schools from their day or even as parents.
When they come into their childs school, that's not they
don't feel welcome for them because there is so much online,
I would recommend that they look at you know, what's
(20:10):
on the school's website, check out sites like big Future,
because a Big Future is particularly good at walking you
through the process in a manner that is user friendly
and not intimidating. And then I would also recommend for
that parent maybe finding one person in the building that
makes them feel welcome. It might not be the whole
(20:32):
school that can be a lot right or all the teachers,
but there might be one person. It might be a
school counselor it might be an assistant principal, it might
be one of the teachers that makes them feel at
ease and belonging in that school. Find that person and
build a relationship with them. Because teachers and counselors and
(20:54):
principles they're there to serve, right, And so if you
have that feeling for I'm a particular person in the building,
I promise you they are going to be open to
helping you feel more welcome and start of holding your
hand through the process.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Sometimes I've noticed carrying adults and parents as Stacey was sharing,
will put their fears and their burdens onto that student.
Don't bring that energy into the process. Approach this open
and that comes to everything because we're looking for what
is ultimately going to be the optimal fit for your student,
(21:34):
for your team, And the only way we can do
that is that if we approach this and embrace this holistically,
like we're just going to go through this. We have
a plan, We've gone through and looked at steps. We
have these wonderful checklists available in Big Future to get
you through nine through twelve. You've gone through the checklist.
Now we're embracing this, and we're approaching this holistically and
not with maybe some of the things or the tourmoil
(21:55):
that you may have experienced in your journey after high school.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Right, don't put that kind of energy on it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Really come at it as we're looking for that right
fit for my student. And that's why when I think
about even where your student goes, it's always best even
when we look for our.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Place to stay, right, go to multiple places to visit.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Right, You don't just pick sometimes that first apartment or
that first home to get.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
That mortgage, or you know, the first person that you date.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
You know, you have to kind of connect with with
multiple individuals, multiple spaces, multiple places.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And I feel that is a great gift to share
with your student.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right if you can go to just even a local
community college, a local college or a local trade school
or vocational school and you just want to step in
the building and get the energy and the vibe of
the campus. I always say, go when it's busy, right
a lot of times, right now we know homecoming is happening.
Go during homecoming, see what it feels like. Go when
(22:52):
maybe it's a Thursday. Talk with students. I encourage you
to connect. Connect with students, connect with faculty, connect with
the administrators that you see. And one thing that I've
noticed is you really want to share with your student
to become the best advocate for themselves on campus, and
they see that by you modeling it as well. So
if you have questions and you're not understanding, for example,
(23:13):
the financial aid package or whether there's scholarships that are
available for your student, ask those questions. Please don't be timid,
because we are there literally to serve your student and
to help your student get through that process as seamlessly
and as I always like to say, lovingly, as we
possibly can. And that is a moment where ask that question,
(23:36):
and you ask that second question right when it comes
to interviewing, ask that second question, the one that is deeper,
because that's also going to yield additional insight for your
student and for you as a parent.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. Really good tips coming out of here. I
really like this concept of starting small and starting locally.
I mean visiting a local unity college or local college,
not even one that you are necessarily interested in, but
just to get a sense of what it's like to
visit a college campus. I mean, if it's nearby, to
(24:09):
sort of walk through there, just what it's like vis
is the office of Admissions. It's actually a good idea
to do this at a place that this child is
not necessarily interested in, because it takes all attention away.
It just enables you to feel what it's like to
be on campus. Because for so many students, the whole
prospect looms so large and it's so different and so
scary that even just going to college as a thing
(24:32):
it just seems like it's fraught. So just walking with
your child through a college campus that's not one that
they necessarily will go to is a really great place
to start. And I also like this concept of advocating
for yourself. I'll share that my oldest child was very
introverted and a little shy when she was younger, But
she came up with a process when we went to
visit colleges that I was impressed with because it was
(24:54):
a little out of her comfort zone, but she found
to be really helpful. Whenever we would visit a place
that she was interested in, after we did all of
the information sessions and the campus tour, I would sit
on a bench somewhere and she would wander off and
she would find three people to talk to to just
ask very three, very simple questions, where are you from?
(25:15):
Was this your first choice? Well, four questions where else
did you think about going? And then are you happy
with where you are now? And what she found what
she was trying to get at was to get a
sense of what it felt like to be on campus
with any of those perspectives. If it wasn't where you
thought you'd be, but you like it now, you know.
And she found that students were really happy to answer
the questions honestly, and their willingness to do that also
(25:37):
spoke about the community of the school. I mean, if
she'd go to a place then people weren't that friendly
to answer those questions, she would get a sense of
what it might be like to be there, so I mean,
your child doesn't have to use those questions, but just
the concept of that's how they learned to advocate for themselves.
Giving them the space to see themselves in this new
place without you and having to make their way a
(25:57):
little bit. It's good practice because you know, it takes
some of the scariness out of the process, and that's
really one of the most important things that we can
do as parents at this point.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yes, well, what I love what your daughter was doing, Carol.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
She was essentially saying does this school past the vibe
check or not?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Right say?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Or not?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Is it past the vibe check? And one thing I
have to.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Show this because it's a funny story to me, but
it's always students, because my students always teach and show
me new things. And so when we were doing real
talk this past October, we were bringing in our amazing administrators, right,
we brought in presidents, we bring in phenomenal top toier
guest and our students were like, that's great, But what
they really wanted to hear was from students.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Right, So you're not its like that's wonderful, but I
want to talk to the students and really get the
inside scoop or tea on whether this really is the
next place for me and my next home. So I
absolutely love what she did, and that's a wonderful way
to just create that baseline with no pressure. But when
you're having those conversations with your team and the car
(27:03):
back on the journey back, you can say, well, what
did you learn from that person?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
How did that feel? You know, keep that top of mind.
So I just love that approach that she took.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I love that your daughter did that. I think that's
a great way to try and figure out fit And
when they do that, when students are intentional like your
daughter was in her process, then their list becomes more
narrow and it's not fifty schools on the list, right.
So I love that she did that absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, I have to give her credit for that.
It is you mentioned the talk on the way home.
It's really also important, I think, to remind parents that
you really, as you guys have said already, you have
to listen. Just keep a big sign in your head
that said listen, because you'll be tempted once your child
is visiting places, once they come back with impressions, you'll
be tempted to add your two cents. You'll be tempted
(27:53):
to agree, disagree, tell them what you saw, just you know,
give your own vibe check. And that's interesting, but it
is not a good thing to do because they're so
vulnerable at this point. They're fragile. They're trying to figure
out what they like and what they don't like and
whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Stuff that
we say sort of matter of factly can really land
hard and in the wrong way. So if we just say, oh,
(28:16):
I didn't like you know that cafeteria or whatever, which
doesn't is not the reason to go or not to
go to college. They're really sensitive. So try not to
weigh in as much as you would like to go,
you know, save it all up. Talk to your peers,
talk to other mothers, talk to your family. Just don't
talk to your children. So I want to ask Stacy,
(28:39):
I want to ask you this, And first let's talk
about the big elephant in the room. Actually it's a
bit of a smaller elephant in the room these days.
But the standardized testing and the AP testing, which at
one point was sort of all that people focused on
because they were there was sort of the gateway to
the college admissions process now that many schools have made
it less an absolute you have of an option to
(29:00):
take the test? Stacy, what's the new college board perception
on test taking in general, both the Standardized Test and
the AP test.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I would say, as it relates to the SAT, what
we are seeing and hearing from students that about eighty
percent of students out there high school students want that option,
like you said, they want the option of taking that
test and then deciding from there whether they share it
with colleges or not. My take, as a school counselor
(29:34):
and as a college board employee, I would rather for
my students to have a score, even if they don't
use it, take the test and have it in case
you need it. Because one thing that a lot of
students focus on and parents as well, is that okay
for admissions, but there are colleges out there and opportunities
(29:54):
out there beyond just admissions when it comes to the SAT. Right,
So there are scholarship that utilize the SAT, even test
optional schools where they might not look at it for
the sake of admitting you to the college, but some
of the schools want that score after you've been admitted.
So they can see what kind of supports you're needing,
(30:16):
because it's also telling them where your readiness is as
far as your reading and writing skills, your math skills.
So even after you've been admitted and did not submit
your score for your application, it's useful information. And that's
the other thing I would encourage for students and parents
is that look at the SAT as more than a score,
(30:37):
because it is. It's more than a score. There's diagnostic
information in there that can help your student figure out, Okay,
I'm strong here, but you know I need to short
my skills here for algebraic equations before I get to college. Right,
so then that first year of college they're stronger than
had they not. And then for your AP students, encouraging
(30:59):
them to take that test because you have the possibility
of earning college credit while you're still in high school
or advanced placement and so of course that's a great benefit.
But just like the SAT, the AP exam, it's more
than a score.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Students when they.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Take those AP classes, they are getting critical thinking skills,
research skills, presentation skills all the regardless of what score
you get, those are skills that are going to carry
you through high school, through college and life, and so
just encouraging parents to look beyond just the score, because
these are tools, they're not just test their.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Tools, and autumn, I want you to wait on this
as well, especially because we know statistically black children have
not always scored as well. I know that we've been
sensitive over many years, and optionality gives us new opportunities
in applications. But does talk deal with test taking and
(32:02):
give any advice on it.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
That's a wonderful, wonderful question, Carol and I had shared
earlier doing a conversation, how I was that student who
switched majors four times. You know, I went from neuroscience
to journalism and parents for like that, no, no automist,
that's not going to work, to communication, which ended up
working well. I always love to share. I was able
(32:26):
to graduate in four years, and this was was mainly
because I had taken AP courses and exams. So I
took a United States History, I took the English Language
and composition, and that literally when I when I switched
to the communication major, I had to have a minor,
and the minor was eighteen credit hours. And again my
(32:46):
parents were very much on we have to finish on time, right,
because I always say, you know, you really want to
chart that course when it comes to undergrad because when
you go into overtime, just like any NBA, any NFL game,
it gets very risky and it gets very costly. Okay,
so I was very mindful of that. But literally my
score on the ap English Language and Composition literally wiped
(33:09):
out pretty much fifteen out of those eighteen credit hours
that were needed and I was able to actually graduate
on time. And so how I look at it and
how I share it with our families is that again,
you are not the number on that score on that exam,
but it gives you an opportunity in that coursework. It's rigorous,
it is what's going to prepare you for undergrad and
(33:30):
for grad school beyond. So I always share that it
is something that really gets you ready in terms of
being prepared for college. It stretches how your student applies
and how they think about things, which are critical thinking
skills that we need just in general, just as how
we approach and think through the life and who we
are as individuals and so on real talk. We've actually
(33:51):
did a really great event this past June. I'm based
in Texas. So of course we had to celebrate Juneteenth,
and so we film more real talks on the campus
of Houston Hillis University, which is an HBCU in Austin.
Doctor Brandy Waters, who is one of our senior director
for ap African American Studies, came and actually shared the
history of Juneteenth with our students, and then we brought
(34:13):
in hbcused to talk about it. And so I just
wanted to be on the radar of our students, especially
as o're thinking through how to plan to pay for college,
that that could be very, very and I'm using as
many adverbs immensely incredibly helpful for that student when they're
thinking through how to actually plan and pay for college
(34:36):
by taking an exam if it's offered, and if it's
a way they would like to stretch how they think
about their approach to a particular subject.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
The other thing, as it relates to testing, is for
parents and students to remember that this is just one
data point if it's being considered at all, because, like
you said, Carol, it was something that used to be
considered you know, high, it was high on the list, right,
It was never top of the list. By the way,
for college admissions officers. Always top of the list for
(35:04):
college admissions officers has been the courses you're taking in
high school, the rigor, and how you're performing in those
high school classes. So even pre pandemic, pre test optional,
the admissions tests were highest number five, And so just
a reminder that whether they submit a test score or not,
your admissions officers number one, are looking for reasons to
(35:26):
admit students, and they're doing a holistic look at all
that the student is bringing to the table because they
want their campuses to be lively and engaging, which is
about more than your grades and test score. So I
think that is key to remember because, like looking at
(35:47):
some of the reports out there now, you know it's
low on the list in terms of what's important to
admissions officers, even those who are accepting and are test optional.
So just a little reminder there.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
That's good to hear, particularly because as we now know,
thanks to the Supreme Court, admissions officials have to work
harder to get information about their students, and so the
fact that students have the student's application is going to
be looked at more carefully in terms of what they're
saying about themselves and the courses that they've taken, and
I mean, we all know it's really important for our
(36:24):
children to write those essays that talk about who they
are and what their experiences have been, so that college
admissions officials can understand how much they're going to bring
to these to the campuses. You know, we cannot have
this conversation without talking about a really big elephant that
is becoming bigger and bigger in the room, and that
is the financing of it all. College costs have skyrocketed.
(36:47):
That's news to no one. But I'd like for both
of you to give me a sense of two things.
One the kind of conversations you're having with parents about
minimizing debt as you pursue higher education. And then specifically
what in the big future umbrella and the real talk family,
where can parents look to get as much information as
(37:08):
possible about affording college in your program.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I don't mind starting on that one, because that's the
one thing we were always consistently when it comes to
real talk connecting with our students and our carrying adults.
So we went to essence Fest this past July and
I literally connected with over one thousand individuals from the
community and when we ask carrying adults, you know, what's
your concern about your team?
Speaker 4 (37:33):
What they wanted to know was how do I pay
for college?
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Right? Where do I find scholarships? And when we hold
our events? Right, those are consistently the most attended events,
the highest registration events. Right, I'm talking fourteen to fifteen
thousand individuals register for this event. Where we look at
the videos that we share on Big Future with real talk,
we'll see the number one video because I look at
the views all the time, is going to deal with
(37:57):
how do I handle debt when I get to undergrad right?
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Ways to actually lessen that debt. So it's something that's
top of mind.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And what I will always say to carrying adults into
students when we're thinking about this is that if you're
over on Big Future and you mouse over and look
under the pay for college tab and you start exploring this,
you'll find a couple of resources that I think are incredible. First,
you'll see our scholarship search, and that helps connect students
with over twenty four thousand different types of scholarship programs.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
So that's the first one.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
And you can actually search and look in terms of
geography and look in terms of where you are in
the process. The second that I have to share is
that over on Big Future, we reward students for taking
steps that are going to actually take them closer to
their college and career planning dreams. And so we have
our Big Future Scholarships and our Big Future Scholarships. You know,
(38:50):
students to start in tenth grade and they'll end up
completing some of the steps that will enter them into
a drawing. And we actually award two forty thousand dollars
scholarship every month as well as hundreds of five hundred
dollars scholarships. And since we've started our Big Future Scholarships,
since twenty nineteen, College Board has awarded over twenty million
(39:11):
dollars to more than twenty four thousand students. And we
had a real talk this past December where because what
I would tell parents in the community, they would say, really,
can my child really win forty thousand dollars? And what
we did was we had to bring in a few
of our Big Future Scholarship recipients from the community as
well as one of the moms. So we have a student, Carrington,
(39:33):
who's at Prayer View A and m right now at
PV and I had to bring in her mom so
that our carrying adults and our students who were joining
our event can really see that this is genuine, This
is encouraging you to complete steps, and you can actually
see that this is someone from our community who has
received one of our big future scholarships.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Wow. Okay, parents everywhere, do not sleep on this resource.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Don't sleep on it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Greens. Yeah, no, that that is really good to hear. Sacy,
do you have anything to add about financing?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I do.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Number one, I love the future scholarships. I wish it
was around when I was a school counselor. And these
are steps that students are doing any way, right, So
doing the college search, doing the career quiz, things of
that nature. They're doing it anyway, So why not try
to win forty thousand dollars while you're at it. But
a couple of things, I would say, it's important for
(40:28):
our students to know that if you have to take
a loan, how.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
To do so responsibly.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
So, for example, if in your financial aid package you're
awarded just random number ten thousand dollars in loans, but
you really only need too don't take the whole ten
just take the two right. So many times you hear students,
I'm just gonna take the whole thing. No, if you
have to take loans, borrow responsibly. And then the other
(40:57):
thing I would say is, if you have to take
a loan, consider it an investment. If that's the only
thing keeping you from pursuing your post secondary goals, and
if you don't take this loan then you are stuck
and you can't move forward, then consider it an investment
and take that loan. But again, taking it responsibly is
(41:20):
what is what I would advise.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And you know what, I want to add one thing
to what Stacey just shared, because we spoke about this
in terms of a common application a minute ago. We
have over on a Big Future. We have on our
real Talk page we have the CBCA filter, which is
the Common Black College App filter. So if you go
on the real Talk page and you tap and you'll
(41:43):
see you know CBCA you tap that, it will actually
connect you to all of the institutions that accept the.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Common Black College App.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And when we think about financial and how to figure
out the best way to put your student in the
driver's seat, I really recommend you know, taking that time.
I think it's one application fee, but you can apply
to I believe it's nearly sixty different HBCUs. That way,
you'll select with HPCUS, you want to apply your team,
and you'll receive various financial aid packages. And I feel
(42:13):
that's important because now you really are in the driver's
seat to compare it and contrast different offer types that
are given an award to your student, and then you
can make additional financial decisions and considerations from that. But
you can say, Okay, I'm receiving from this school here
in this location, this is what our award is breaking down,
(42:34):
and this is the actual net price or sticker price
of attending. This is what this other institution is giving us.
And that way your childer are getting options to figure
out what is the best fit right once you've been
on campus, but also what's the best fit financially for
your team as well.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
And I would say also that doesn't mean apply to
sixty college. Yes, right basically, but also at the same time,
do not rule out a college because you are seeing
(43:11):
that sticker price because your application part that begins in
the fall of your senior year, but you aren't getting
your financial aid package until the spring. So while it
might have a large sticker price, you don't know what
the actual price is going to be for you. And
so if this is a school that you are just
in love with and you want to go, don't rule
(43:34):
it out because of that sticker price. But once you
get those financial packages, like Autumn said, you set them
side by side, do comparison, and then you make an
educated decision.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yes, I so appreciate that you said that safety because
it is really important these days. I know parents are
really nervous about these admission rates, etc. But please, if
your child is applying to a ridiculous number of schools,
and I'm just going to ask you to just give
me your sense of what is enough. I mean, sixty
schools is crazy. I mean what is the what's an
(44:06):
average number? Is it ten? Is it twelve? Is it nine?
What is the number above which you're getting into the
it's not worth it part? For me? Would you guys.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Say somewhere between five and ten is a decent number
if the student has done their diligent research, say beginning
their junior year and junior spring. They're doing like your
daughter did. They're going to campuses, they're talking to people,
they're researching the school. They're thinking about what is a
good fit for me, not for my best friend, right,
(44:40):
not just because I like the band, But I'm looking
at everything. And if your students do that, they're going
to come up with a list of schools that's probably
right around that number of schools that are a good
fit for them. And then once they have that, it's
important that they have a diverse list. And so by
that I mean, don't apply to only highly selective schools, right.
(45:03):
You need a variety. So have some schools that we
consider a reach. A reach is a school that I'm
not so sure I can get in, but I really
like the school. It's a school I would go to.
Then they should have a couple of safety schools. Those
are ones I'm pretty sure I can get in here.
Nothing is guaranteed these days, and then have several that
(45:24):
are in the middle in terms of where you feel
like your numbers are pretty spot on in terms of
the averages that they are promoting. So I would put
that somewhere between five and ten ten colleges to apply to.
And then also caution students from this comparison thing that
is so big in this generation in terms of I'm
(45:46):
looking at what my best friend is applying to or
how many colleges they apply to, and that just adds
to the anxiety and some questioning. So just stick to,
like Autumn said, being true to your in this compete
application process. And that goes for parents too, because as
parents we do that comparison thing to also right where
(46:07):
we're looking at, Okay, my neighbor's kids have applied here,
and then now you're putting pressure on your kid to
apply somewhere that's not even a good fit. So I
would say somewhere between five and ten care.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
One hundred percent agreement, one hundred percent. I always say
this because to me, this is just the biggest thing
is that north star to then own self, be true, right,
Really listen to what your team is honing in and
saying to you after those conversations in those campus visits
or after they've met with a campus recruiter.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Going to a college fair is a great way too,
because then you get to connect one on one with
the missions and talking, get a sense what they're feeling,
what they're saying. Honor that because again, holistically, to me,
this is a bigger life lesson when you're already encouraging
your child to follow and hone in on what is
(46:56):
instinctively what is for them and what is the right
fit for them. That's a bigger life skill that's going
to serve them well in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties
and down the line. And I think this is an
important time for teens and for parents to lean into
that that my student has figured this out, I'm going
to trust the process, encourage them, and really support the
(47:17):
institution that feels that is the right home and fit
for them.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'm going to wrap it up here as we wrap,
just you know we've talked about I started out by
talking about my interest in the calming of the process.
Could each of you just give me a quick word
of advice for parents who are just a really nervous
I mean understandably they're really nervous about this. So Autumn,
I'll start with you and then I'll go to Stacy.
What can we just say to parents as we wrap
(47:44):
what's the biggest thing that will help them stay calm
or get calm?
Speaker 2 (47:48):
I would say in two things. The first one is
I really really believe in the resources that are available
in big future. I mean, it really.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Demystifies the process.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It will help you in your team think through how
to explore careers, how to plan for college, and how
to pay for college. So that's one way to bring
some of that fear out of the process. But also,
as we always stay on a real talk, you've got this,
You've got this, you can do this, you will do this,
and you keep honoring and I say this for the
(48:18):
third time, but honor and listen to your student and
your team, and just by you knowing that you are
caring about your child, that is already half the process.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
So you've got this.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Keep listening, keep having those open conversations and dialogues and
creating those moments, and everything is going to work out, okay,
signed the woman who changed majors four times and figured
it out.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Okay, it will work out.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Okay, thanks Autumn Stacy.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Anything to add, of course, but plus one to all
of that, Yes it is going to be okay. Absolutely,
But I would add, as parents, you know, so we
just want the best for our children, and so we
go through our own things and our own anxiety and
our own worries and concerns, especially in this process. So
(49:10):
I would encourage parents find that support network. And I'm
not talking about a large network, right, I'm talking about
maybe one or two parents who have either gone through
it or are currently going through it, but that have
that calming presence. Not that friend who is on one
hundred all the time that's not going to help you
(49:34):
calm the process, but finding that support person or people
in your world that help you walk through this process
and help remind you when you start getting concerned and
anxious that no, it's going to be okay. It's just
step by step by step and it's going to be
find that person and lean on them when you need to.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Oh, great advice from the both of you. I'm going
to wrap it up here and I want to say
thank you so much to the both of you for
joining me on this podcast. It's been a great conversation
as I knew it would, and you guys have given
us so much really useful information. So parents, listen to this,
take this, run with it, stay calm, and it will
be okay. Thank you both, Stacy and Autumn, Thank you
(50:18):
so much. Thank thank you for having us so in
this episode, we heard a lot about what the college
board has to offer, and we talked a lot about
their Big Future and Real Talk programs. Before I go,
I just want to make sure everyone knows how to
find all this info online. So go to CollegeBoard dot org.
That's college Board one word co L L E G
E B O A r D dot org. Scroll to
(50:42):
the middle of the page and look for the column
labeled Big Future. Click on that Big Future column and
that will take you to the Big Future homepage. And
that's where you'll find all sorts of helpful information about
the college process, including the career, college and scholarship quizzes
that we talked about. And once you're on the Big
Future page, you can scroll all the way down to
the bottom and under community and Events you'll see Real Talk,
(51:05):
the career and college planning guide for Black students and
families that we talked a lot about, and you can
click on Real Talk there to go to the Real
Talk homepage. I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation and
that you'll come back for more. Please subscribe, rate and
review where you find your podcasts, and tell your friends.
For more parenting info and advice, please check out Groundcontrol
parenting dot com. You can also find us on Instagram
(51:28):
and Facebook, at Ground Control Parenting and on LinkedIn under
Carol Sutton Lewis. Until the next time, take care and
thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative for parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. Today, we
have two experts with us to talk about a subject
which is near and dear to the hearts of many
(00:26):
parents of tweens and teens, especially teens college admissions. And
as the mother of three children, I have been through
three rounds of successful college admissions plus a coupolic grad school admissions,
I sincerely appreciate that parents need all the help we
can get with navigating the college missions process, and of
course I'm laser focused on what black parents need to
(00:48):
get through this process. So today I am thrilled welcome
too experts from the College Board, the not profit membership
organization that developed the SAT and the AP test and
helped more than seven million students a year navigate the
path from high school to college and career. So we
have with us Stacey Fannie, who's the director on the
College Board's Counselor Community Engagement Team. She is passionate about
(01:11):
helping students graduate on time and pursue their post secondary dreams,
especially those who are first generation and students who are
often overlooked. Stacey works for the Counselor Community Engagement Team
to support high school college counselors in their mission to
help students realize these goals. Stacey earned her bachelor's degree
from Dartmouth College, her master's degree in school counseling from
(01:33):
the University of Georgia, and a specialist degree in educational
leadership from the University of West Georgia. She is currently
working towards her pH d in councilor Education and Supervision
at Mercer University. We also have doctor Audum Cabanists who
is the director of Real Talk, which is a big
future career and college exploration initiative at the College Board,
and we'll get more into what that is all about.
(01:55):
Real Talk connects black students and families with black professionals
and representatives from colleges and access organizations across the country.
Doctor Cabnis holds a BA and MA in Communication from
Texas A and M University, and she received her PhD
and journalism and their Masters of Arts and Radio Television
Film from the University of Texas at Austin. Stacy and Autumn,
(02:17):
welcome to ground Control Parenting.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Thank you for having us, Yes, thank you, Echoing Stacy's sentiments,
super happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh great, And I am so happy to have you
both here. Now. I've spent a lot of time on
college admissions, as I said, personally with my kids, but
also I've moderated over the years many mini panels and
college admissions with college deans, and I've even chatted on
this podcast about this several times with the College Board President,
David Coleman. And as we all know, the world of
(02:47):
college admissions is a rapidly growing and changing one, and
so I'm really excited to dive into the current state
of affairs and admissions with both of you today. So
let's get started. I'm going to start with you, Stacey,
talk with you generally about this process. I mean, many
parents listening are new to it. Just the words strike
fear into their hearts, and we're here to assure you
(03:08):
that it should not so. But everyone does talk about
how tough the process is. What can you give me
a little this sense of the data behind college admissions?
What makes everybody feel this way? How hard is it
to get into college?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I love that you're starting with that question, and I
also love that you're saying it's going to be all right.
It is going to be all right. I think one
thing that feeds into it, Carol, is you know what
we see in the media and in our social media
and the blogs and all of that about how difficult
it is. And it is certainly overwhelming. And it has really,
(03:46):
honestly always been an overwhelming process. And the landscape, as
you mentioned, is changing, which makes it difficult to navigate
because of course when something is new or something is changing,
you know you're a little off kilter in terms of Okay,
I knew how this used to work, and I'm not
so sure how it works now. So I would say
(04:07):
the first thing I want parents to know is that
when you look at the average in terms of acceptances
for colleges, three out of four college applications are being
accepted by the colleges right And if you're looking at
public colleges is even higher. It's about seventy eight percent
of those applications that are submitted by students are being accepted.
(04:32):
But when you are watching the news or listening to
different individuals who are going through the process. What you're
hearing a lot about are those selective colleges, And so
those numbers for your selective colleges, they are very different.
When you're looking at your Ivy League colleges or other
highly selective schools. Those acceptance rates are single digits much
(04:55):
of the time. So what I would encourage parents to
number one, realize that's a small, small percentage of all
the thousands of colleges that are out there, and so
that would be the thing that would hope calms the
waters a little bit for parents, and knowing that the
bulk of the colleges out there are accepting three out
(05:19):
of the four applications, and of course that's an affort.
So there are some that are accepting more, some that
are accepting less, but everybody is not in single digits
like you're highly selective schools.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Now. Certainly, back in the dark ages when I applied
to colleges, then the mid rate was much higher. But
I have to believe that the common app which makes
a lot more colleges. The good thing about it is
it enables students to apply to a lot of colleges
at once. But that same thing that makes it good,
also makes those rates get smaller because if students can
(05:52):
apply to a lot of colleges at once, they will
put in a lot of colleges that they won't necessarily
even be a good fit for and that they won't
go to. And so, you know, schools that have name
brand recognition, really high name brand recognition have seen their
application levels skyrocket, but it's not necessarily because that many
(06:13):
more students would ordinarily be admitted to the school. I
think people just have the opportunity to throw in their
applications and they say why not. So this is just
to assure all the parents out there who are about
to dive into this process that you know, don't believe
the hype, do not sort of look at the even
the single digit schools, even the schools that have single
digit admissions, Yes they're very selective, but that percentage is
(06:37):
of the number of people that applied.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Absolutely, that is one hundred percent spot on. And I
think that does come from you know, though useful platforms
like the Common app where they can apply.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
To multiple schools.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's also a result of test optional right where now
students are applying to a lot more colleges and so
to your point, Carol, that makes that number of applications
much higher, but there's still really, for the most part,
the same number of seats, So that selectivity number, that
(07:14):
percentage of what they can accept, it does make that
much smaller when they have a lot more applications but
the same number of seats.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So Stacey, let's start at the beginning of college admissions.
And what I first want to dive into is when
parents should be concerned about this. You know, you hear
again that park Bench wisdom of people who start when
their kids are in elementary school or you know, lower school,
focusing on what's going to get them into college. At
what point, and I'm going to say, in the high
(07:44):
school process. I mean, maybe it's sooner, but at what
point should parents and students begin their focus on the
college process and how should they start?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Great question ninth grade or certain, but I want to
kind of go to like a little before ninth grade,
eighth grade, when they are sitting down with their middle
school counselor and selecting those courses for ninth grade, that
is really where it starts. Or if your child is
(08:15):
in a school where they are taking some high school
courses while in middle school, that's important. I would consider
that really the beginning of high school, though physically they
may not be in the high school building, but at
whatever point they are beginning high school courses, whether that's
seventh grade or eighth grade, that's when that high school
(08:35):
GPA begins. And so that's when I think parents really
should sort of be honing in on this process, paying
attention to the courses that their students are signing up for,
and then throughout the high school career adding more so
(08:55):
even though they might be taking high school courses in
seventh or eighth grade. You know, it's a low level
of intensity, right, not putting so much pressure on students,
because that's what our students are feeling. They are feeling
this anxiety and angst and overwhelm around this process, and
a lot of it is coming from the adults.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
We add this to our students, but gradually as it's
age appropriate, adding more focus and intentionality around what you
have your students doing.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Adam, I'm actually going to bring you in here now
just to have you give us the real talk perspective
on this. And before I do that, I just want
to help everyone understand how the college Board works. So
there's the Umbrella College Board organization which has the SAT
and the AP and sort of the testing on one end,
but they also have this Big Future program which focuses
(09:50):
on college guidance. And within Big Future there is Real Talk.
So can you tell us a little bit about Real Talk?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Absolutely, I love to say, and I say, this is
the daughter of an educator, and I've now worked and
had the auditor work with thousands and thousands of students from.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
High school to college level.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And I love to say that I get to live
my dream job, right, I really do. Because Real Talk,
as you stagely shared Carol, is housed in Big Future,
which is a part of College Board, and Real Talk
is our career and college guide for.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Black students and families.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And you know, I love to say sometimes when we
talk about HBC culture, we'll talk about the right, the illustrious,
the this. So I love to say it's the career
and college guide for Black students and families. And it's
available on Big Future dot org. And what you will
find when you come over to bigfacher dot org slash
real Talk is you will see videos right, short snippets
of videos and segments and articles and access tools that
(10:46):
are going to help students find their dream career or
students who are thinking about HBCUs how to fund their
education right. So you'll see our way of looking at
this through our three pillars on Big Future, and you'll
see will Talk looking at it in a way for
how do you explore careers right? How do you plan
for college? And ultimately how do you pay for college?
(11:08):
And here I have to share that since last year,
over nine thousand students and family members and we'd love
to say our caring adults have attended our Real Talk events.
So we have the online guide for Black students and families,
and we also do virtual events. And I love doing
our virtual events because they're free, they're virtual, they're all
(11:29):
across the country in terms of who we're connecting with.
And we had about twenty two institutions participate in our
Real Talk events over the past year, including eleven historically
black colleges and universities.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Oh wow, that's great. That's great. So I want to
ask both of you this question before we get too
deeply into this. Now, we're assuming that everyone listening has
an interest in having their child attend college, and I
certainly support that. But what happens as a parent if
your child doesn't know whether you want to go to college.
I'll start with you, Stacey. And what if they aren't
(12:01):
sure or they want to take some time. Are there
resources through the college board that they should look into
to sort of help them with that decision?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Number one, it's okay. I know we feel like our
children have to have everything worked out and planned while
they're in high school, but that number one just is
not the case.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
How many of us, even once we knew we were
going to college and we knew our major, how many
of us changed majors while we were in college. How
many of us have changed careers? Right? So number one,
it's okay if your child does not have it locked in,
because those first two years of college, for the most part,
are going to be your general courses anyway before they
(12:44):
get into a major. So number one, it's okay if
they're unsure. The second thing I would say is it's
also with this generation in particular, they're very different than
we were, Like you say, Carol it back in the
older days. They are more open to risk taking, They
see multiple pathways to success, whereas you know, our generation,
(13:07):
for the most part, we were locked in on four
year colleges the way to success. So I would say,
if you have a student who number one, they might
not be interested in a four year college or they're unsure,
it's okay explore that with them because there are multiple options.
There's two year college. From there they can transfer to
(13:28):
four year college, there's certificate programs, apprenticeships, and so I
would number one courage parents to expand their definition of college.
What we're really talking about is post secondary education and training,
and that includes a lot more than just four year colleges.
(13:50):
We want our students to work towards their passion how
they'll be successful, and I think as parents we just
have to sort of be more open and supportive of
what that could look like and realize that there are
multiple pathways to success and we are there supporting our
children as they explore all these different options.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And I'm in one hundred percent agreement with Stacy on this.
I always say to thine own self be true, and
when students really listen and caring adults are willing to
hear what students are really interested in, that makes the
process that much easier and simpler for everyone involved.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Right, And I'm just going to put myself in this situation.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right. I was a student who changed majors four times,
much to my parents' chagrin. Right, But I knew very
early on if we peel back the time, right, I
knew very early on that I wanted to do something
in communication. I wanted to do something in journalism, but
I wasn't necessarily confident to really holding in on that
voice and share, right because everyone was saying autumn, you
(14:58):
can't find success.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Way.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, my biggest, biggest piece of advice for your audience, Carol,
is to encourage the carrying adults to listen to their team.
And we have over at Big Future, we have our
career quiz, and I love our career quiz. You can
access it when you go to Big Future and just
tap under Explore Careers. The career quiz takes about fifteen
(15:21):
minutes and it's about sixty questions, fifty to sixty questions,
and you literally can find interest that resonate with you.
And so it's one of those things where Stacy was sharing.
You know, get started early even in middle school, thinking
about this process. But this is something where parents carrying
adults and their team can sit down together and take
(15:42):
that career quiz and then think through what some other
interests are and then go, Okay, maybe we'll spend the
summer working on this. If we like it, great, If
we don't, that's fine, and then come back and take
it again. And I think that gets us closer to
our north star, which in the end I believe saves
us all a lot of time, our most invaluable gift,
(16:03):
and it really honors that calling and the purpose that
I feel gen Z really is wanting to make happen
in their lives.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And I also want to add if I can, our
Big Future is college search tool. It has not only
four year colleges for students to explore, but it also
has I think over one thousand two year and certificate
programs to explore. So that tool on Big Future is
(16:30):
for every student, even that student who is sort of
on that bubble I'm not sure which way I want
to go. They can explore the wealth of different pathways
as they are trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I am a huge fan of quizzes. I love quizzes,
and if you pop over to Big Future, there are
three of them. The Career Quiz, as you said the
college quiz. There's also a scholarship quiz and parents, if
you can sit with your child when you're taking them,
when or when the child is taking them, you're not
taking them making them. When you sit with your child,
you can learn so much about what they're thinking. I mean,
you just have to be quiet. You can't influence them.
(17:06):
It's almost like there's a third party in the room,
an impartial third party that is that the child is
responding to. So you take away some of that tension.
And this quiz is a great way to start. So
I want to ask you both about I'm sticking with
parent interaction because you know, what I realize is it's overwhelming,
because a lot for everyone to deal with, But I
(17:27):
find that parents carry their own stress into it and
it has nothing to do with the children. Has to
do with their perspective on their college experience or if
they didn't have a college experience. And so I would
love to talk a little bit about how you would
advise parents to interact with everyone about the process, not
just their child. Stacy'll ask you first, and Autumn certainly
(17:48):
you can come in as well. How do you recommend
that parents interact with their schools about the process. I mean,
people who were all over it when they were applying
are going to want to be all over it when
their kids are. And then people who are intimidated by
the whole thing may want to just stay away as
long as possible. So what kind of advice and tips
can you give to parents as they try to figure
(18:08):
out where they belong in the puzzle.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
That's a great question. And I think my guidance for
each of those different groups of parents is different advice.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
So for that parent who wants to be the one
who's sometimes doing it for their students, and I like
what you said, Carol about the quizzes, you're not taking
it for them. And I remember this as a school counselor,
I had those parents where they just wanted to do
it for their students. I literally had one of my seniors,
(18:42):
and this was in the fall when I did my
one on one conference with them. I said, Okay, tell
me what schools you're thinking about. What schools are on
your list? He said, Miss Fani, I don't know. I said,
what do you mean you don't know? He said, my
mom did the list for me. I think there might
be five or six schools on the list, I don't
know what they are, and so that is certainly an
(19:04):
example of over involvement to the point the student didn't
even know which schools were on his list, and that
also leads to him not having buy in at all
in the process. He has no ownership in the process,
and then when he's on this campus, we don't know
if it's a good fit for him because there's just
been no involvement. So my advice for those parents who
(19:28):
want to do it for them is do not do
not as hard as it is right. And I had
some of that with my daughter where I wanted to
do the things, but we want to build capacity into
our young people, and so we aren't doing that when
we do it for them. And then for those parents
(19:49):
who are intimidating, because that is a thing. There are
parents out there, like you said, Ker who have had
negative experiences in schools from their day or even as parents.
When they come into their childs school, that's not they
don't feel welcome for them because there is so much online,
I would recommend that they look at you know, what's
(20:10):
on the school's website, check out sites like big Future,
because a Big Future is particularly good at walking you
through the process in a manner that is user friendly
and not intimidating. And then I would also recommend for
that parent maybe finding one person in the building that
makes them feel welcome. It might not be the whole
(20:32):
school that can be a lot right or all the teachers,
but there might be one person. It might be a
school counselor it might be an assistant principal, it might
be one of the teachers that makes them feel at
ease and belonging in that school. Find that person and
build a relationship with them. Because teachers and counselors and
(20:54):
principles they're there to serve, right, And so if you
have that feeling for I'm a particular person in the building,
I promise you they are going to be open to
helping you feel more welcome and start of holding your
hand through the process.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Sometimes I've noticed carrying adults and parents as Stacey was sharing,
will put their fears and their burdens onto that student.
Don't bring that energy into the process. Approach this open
and that comes to everything because we're looking for what
is ultimately going to be the optimal fit for your student,
(21:34):
for your team, And the only way we can do
that is that if we approach this and embrace this holistically,
like we're just going to go through this. We have
a plan, We've gone through and looked at steps. We
have these wonderful checklists available in Big Future to get
you through nine through twelve. You've gone through the checklist.
Now we're embracing this, and we're approaching this holistically and
not with maybe some of the things or the tourmoil
(21:55):
that you may have experienced in your journey after high school.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Right, don't put that kind of energy on it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Really come at it as we're looking for that right
fit for my student. And that's why when I think
about even where your student goes, it's always best even
when we look for our.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Place to stay, right, go to multiple places to visit.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Right, You don't just pick sometimes that first apartment or
that first home to get.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
That mortgage, or you know, the first person that you date.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
You know, you have to kind of connect with with
multiple individuals, multiple spaces, multiple places.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And I feel that is a great gift to share
with your student.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right if you can go to just even a local
community college, a local college or a local trade school
or vocational school and you just want to step in
the building and get the energy and the vibe of
the campus. I always say, go when it's busy, right
a lot of times, right now we know homecoming is happening.
Go during homecoming, see what it feels like. Go when
(22:52):
maybe it's a Thursday. Talk with students. I encourage you
to connect. Connect with students, connect with faculty, connect with
the administrators that you see. And one thing that I've
noticed is you really want to share with your student
to become the best advocate for themselves on campus, and
they see that by you modeling it as well. So
if you have questions and you're not understanding, for example,
(23:13):
the financial aid package or whether there's scholarships that are
available for your student, ask those questions. Please don't be timid,
because we are there literally to serve your student and
to help your student get through that process as seamlessly
and as I always like to say, lovingly, as we
possibly can. And that is a moment where ask that question,
(23:36):
and you ask that second question right when it comes
to interviewing, ask that second question, the one that is deeper,
because that's also going to yield additional insight for your
student and for you as a parent.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. Really good tips coming out of here. I
really like this concept of starting small and starting locally.
I mean visiting a local unity college or local college,
not even one that you are necessarily interested in, but
just to get a sense of what it's like to
visit a college campus. I mean, if it's nearby, to
(24:09):
sort of walk through there, just what it's like vis
is the office of Admissions. It's actually a good idea
to do this at a place that this child is
not necessarily interested in, because it takes all attention away.
It just enables you to feel what it's like to
be on campus. Because for so many students, the whole
prospect looms so large and it's so different and so
scary that even just going to college as a thing
(24:32):
it just seems like it's fraught. So just walking with
your child through a college campus that's not one that
they necessarily will go to is a really great place
to start. And I also like this concept of advocating
for yourself. I'll share that my oldest child was very
introverted and a little shy when she was younger, But
she came up with a process when we went to
visit colleges that I was impressed with because it was
(24:54):
a little out of her comfort zone, but she found
to be really helpful. Whenever we would visit a place
that she was interested in, after we did all of
the information sessions and the campus tour, I would sit
on a bench somewhere and she would wander off and
she would find three people to talk to to just
ask very three, very simple questions, where are you from?
(25:15):
Was this your first choice? Well, four questions where else
did you think about going? And then are you happy
with where you are now? And what she found what
she was trying to get at was to get a
sense of what it felt like to be on campus
with any of those perspectives. If it wasn't where you
thought you'd be, but you like it now, you know.
And she found that students were really happy to answer
the questions honestly, and their willingness to do that also
(25:37):
spoke about the community of the school. I mean, if
she'd go to a place then people weren't that friendly
to answer those questions, she would get a sense of
what it might be like to be there, so I mean,
your child doesn't have to use those questions, but just
the concept of that's how they learned to advocate for themselves.
Giving them the space to see themselves in this new
place without you and having to make their way a
(25:57):
little bit. It's good practice because you know, it takes
some of the scariness out of the process, and that's
really one of the most important things that we can
do as parents at this point.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yes, well, what I love what your daughter was doing, Carol.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
She was essentially saying does this school past the vibe
check or not?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Right say?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Or not?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Is it past the vibe check? And one thing I
have to.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Show this because it's a funny story to me, but
it's always students, because my students always teach and show
me new things. And so when we were doing real
talk this past October, we were bringing in our amazing administrators, right,
we brought in presidents, we bring in phenomenal top toier
guest and our students were like, that's great, But what
they really wanted to hear was from students.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Right, So you're not its like that's wonderful, but I
want to talk to the students and really get the
inside scoop or tea on whether this really is the
next place for me and my next home. So I
absolutely love what she did, and that's a wonderful way
to just create that baseline with no pressure. But when
you're having those conversations with your team and the car
(27:03):
back on the journey back, you can say, well, what
did you learn from that person?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
How did that feel? You know, keep that top of mind.
So I just love that approach that she took.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I love that your daughter did that. I think that's
a great way to try and figure out fit And
when they do that, when students are intentional like your
daughter was in her process, then their list becomes more
narrow and it's not fifty schools on the list, right.
So I love that she did that absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, I have to give her credit for that.
It is you mentioned the talk on the way home.
It's really also important, I think, to remind parents that
you really, as you guys have said already, you have
to listen. Just keep a big sign in your head
that said listen, because you'll be tempted once your child
is visiting places, once they come back with impressions, you'll
be tempted to add your two cents. You'll be tempted
(27:53):
to agree, disagree, tell them what you saw, just you know,
give your own vibe check. And that's interesting, but it
is not a good thing to do because they're so
vulnerable at this point. They're fragile. They're trying to figure
out what they like and what they don't like and
whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Stuff that
we say sort of matter of factly can really land
hard and in the wrong way. So if we just say, oh,
(28:16):
I didn't like you know that cafeteria or whatever, which
doesn't is not the reason to go or not to
go to college. They're really sensitive. So try not to
weigh in as much as you would like to go,
you know, save it all up. Talk to your peers,
talk to other mothers, talk to your family. Just don't
talk to your children. So I want to ask Stacy,
(28:39):
I want to ask you this, And first let's talk
about the big elephant in the room. Actually it's a
bit of a smaller elephant in the room these days.
But the standardized testing and the AP testing, which at
one point was sort of all that people focused on
because they were there was sort of the gateway to
the college admissions process now that many schools have made
it less an absolute you have of an option to
(29:00):
take the test? Stacy, what's the new college board perception
on test taking in general, both the Standardized Test and
the AP test.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I would say, as it relates to the SAT, what
we are seeing and hearing from students that about eighty
percent of students out there high school students want that option,
like you said, they want the option of taking that
test and then deciding from there whether they share it
with colleges or not. My take, as a school counselor
(29:34):
and as a college board employee, I would rather for
my students to have a score, even if they don't
use it, take the test and have it in case
you need it. Because one thing that a lot of
students focus on and parents as well, is that okay
for admissions, but there are colleges out there and opportunities
(29:54):
out there beyond just admissions when it comes to the SAT. Right,
So there are scholarship that utilize the SAT, even test
optional schools where they might not look at it for
the sake of admitting you to the college, but some
of the schools want that score after you've been admitted.
So they can see what kind of supports you're needing,
(30:16):
because it's also telling them where your readiness is as
far as your reading and writing skills, your math skills.
So even after you've been admitted and did not submit
your score for your application, it's useful information. And that's
the other thing I would encourage for students and parents
is that look at the SAT as more than a score,
(30:37):
because it is. It's more than a score. There's diagnostic
information in there that can help your student figure out, Okay,
I'm strong here, but you know I need to short
my skills here for algebraic equations before I get to college. Right,
so then that first year of college they're stronger than
had they not. And then for your AP students, encouraging
(30:59):
them to take that test because you have the possibility
of earning college credit while you're still in high school
or advanced placement and so of course that's a great benefit.
But just like the SAT, the AP exam, it's more
than a score.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Students when they.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Take those AP classes, they are getting critical thinking skills,
research skills, presentation skills all the regardless of what score
you get, those are skills that are going to carry
you through high school, through college and life, and so
just encouraging parents to look beyond just the score, because
these are tools, they're not just test their.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Tools, and autumn, I want you to wait on this
as well, especially because we know statistically black children have
not always scored as well. I know that we've been
sensitive over many years, and optionality gives us new opportunities
in applications. But does talk deal with test taking and
(32:02):
give any advice on it.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
That's a wonderful, wonderful question, Carol and I had shared
earlier doing a conversation, how I was that student who
switched majors four times. You know, I went from neuroscience
to journalism and parents for like that, no, no automist,
that's not going to work, to communication, which ended up
working well. I always love to share. I was able
(32:26):
to graduate in four years, and this was was mainly
because I had taken AP courses and exams. So I
took a United States History, I took the English Language
and composition, and that literally when I when I switched
to the communication major, I had to have a minor,
and the minor was eighteen credit hours. And again my
(32:46):
parents were very much on we have to finish on time, right,
because I always say, you know, you really want to
chart that course when it comes to undergrad because when
you go into overtime, just like any NBA, any NFL game,
it gets very risky and it gets very costly. Okay,
so I was very mindful of that. But literally my
score on the ap English Language and Composition literally wiped
(33:09):
out pretty much fifteen out of those eighteen credit hours
that were needed and I was able to actually graduate
on time. And so how I look at it and
how I share it with our families is that again,
you are not the number on that score on that exam,
but it gives you an opportunity in that coursework. It's rigorous,
it is what's going to prepare you for undergrad and
(33:30):
for grad school beyond. So I always share that it
is something that really gets you ready in terms of
being prepared for college. It stretches how your student applies
and how they think about things, which are critical thinking
skills that we need just in general, just as how
we approach and think through the life and who we
are as individuals and so on real talk. We've actually
(33:51):
did a really great event this past June. I'm based
in Texas. So of course we had to celebrate Juneteenth,
and so we film more real talks on the campus
of Houston Hillis University, which is an HBCU in Austin.
Doctor Brandy Waters, who is one of our senior director
for ap African American Studies, came and actually shared the
history of Juneteenth with our students, and then we brought
(34:13):
in hbcused to talk about it. And so I just
wanted to be on the radar of our students, especially
as o're thinking through how to plan to pay for college,
that that could be very, very and I'm using as
many adverbs immensely incredibly helpful for that student when they're
thinking through how to actually plan and pay for college
(34:36):
by taking an exam if it's offered, and if it's
a way they would like to stretch how they think
about their approach to a particular subject.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
The other thing, as it relates to testing, is for
parents and students to remember that this is just one
data point if it's being considered at all, because, like
you said, Carol, it was something that used to be
considered you know, high, it was high on the list, right,
It was never top of the list. By the way,
for college admissions officers. Always top of the list for
(35:04):
college admissions officers has been the courses you're taking in
high school, the rigor, and how you're performing in those
high school classes. So even pre pandemic, pre test optional,
the admissions tests were highest number five, And so just
a reminder that whether they submit a test score or not,
your admissions officers number one, are looking for reasons to
(35:26):
admit students, and they're doing a holistic look at all
that the student is bringing to the table because they
want their campuses to be lively and engaging, which is
about more than your grades and test score. So I
think that is key to remember because, like looking at
(35:47):
some of the reports out there now, you know it's
low on the list in terms of what's important to
admissions officers, even those who are accepting and are test optional.
So just a little reminder there.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
That's good to hear, particularly because as we now know,
thanks to the Supreme Court, admissions officials have to work
harder to get information about their students, and so the
fact that students have the student's application is going to
be looked at more carefully in terms of what they're
saying about themselves and the courses that they've taken, and
I mean, we all know it's really important for our
(36:24):
children to write those essays that talk about who they
are and what their experiences have been, so that college
admissions officials can understand how much they're going to bring
to these to the campuses. You know, we cannot have
this conversation without talking about a really big elephant that
is becoming bigger and bigger in the room, and that
is the financing of it all. College costs have skyrocketed.
(36:47):
That's news to no one. But I'd like for both
of you to give me a sense of two things.
One the kind of conversations you're having with parents about
minimizing debt as you pursue higher education. And then specifically
what in the big future umbrella and the real talk family,
where can parents look to get as much information as
(37:08):
possible about affording college in your program.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I don't mind starting on that one, because that's the
one thing we were always consistently when it comes to
real talk connecting with our students and our carrying adults.
So we went to essence Fest this past July and
I literally connected with over one thousand individuals from the
community and when we ask carrying adults, you know, what's
your concern about your team?
Speaker 4 (37:33):
What they wanted to know was how do I pay
for college?
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Right? Where do I find scholarships? And when we hold
our events? Right, those are consistently the most attended events,
the highest registration events. Right, I'm talking fourteen to fifteen
thousand individuals register for this event. Where we look at
the videos that we share on Big Future with real talk,
we'll see the number one video because I look at
the views all the time, is going to deal with
(37:57):
how do I handle debt when I get to undergrad right?
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Ways to actually lessen that debt. So it's something that's
top of mind.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And what I will always say to carrying adults into
students when we're thinking about this is that if you're
over on Big Future and you mouse over and look
under the pay for college tab and you start exploring this,
you'll find a couple of resources that I think are incredible. First,
you'll see our scholarship search, and that helps connect students
with over twenty four thousand different types of scholarship programs.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
So that's the first one.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
And you can actually search and look in terms of
geography and look in terms of where you are in
the process. The second that I have to share is
that over on Big Future, we reward students for taking
steps that are going to actually take them closer to
their college and career planning dreams. And so we have
our Big Future Scholarships and our Big Future Scholarships. You know,
(38:50):
students to start in tenth grade and they'll end up
completing some of the steps that will enter them into
a drawing. And we actually award two forty thousand dollars
scholarship every month as well as hundreds of five hundred
dollars scholarships. And since we've started our Big Future Scholarships,
since twenty nineteen, College Board has awarded over twenty million
(39:11):
dollars to more than twenty four thousand students. And we
had a real talk this past December where because what
I would tell parents in the community, they would say, really,
can my child really win forty thousand dollars? And what
we did was we had to bring in a few
of our Big Future Scholarship recipients from the community as
well as one of the moms. So we have a student, Carrington,
(39:33):
who's at Prayer View A and m right now at
PV and I had to bring in her mom so
that our carrying adults and our students who were joining
our event can really see that this is genuine, This
is encouraging you to complete steps, and you can actually
see that this is someone from our community who has
received one of our big future scholarships.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Wow. Okay, parents everywhere, do not sleep on this resource.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Don't sleep on it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Greens. Yeah, no, that that is really good to hear. Sacy,
do you have anything to add about financing?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I do.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Number one, I love the future scholarships. I wish it
was around when I was a school counselor. And these
are steps that students are doing any way, right, So
doing the college search, doing the career quiz, things of
that nature. They're doing it anyway, So why not try
to win forty thousand dollars while you're at it. But
a couple of things, I would say, it's important for
(40:28):
our students to know that if you have to take
a loan, how.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
To do so responsibly.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
So, for example, if in your financial aid package you're
awarded just random number ten thousand dollars in loans, but
you really only need too don't take the whole ten
just take the two right. So many times you hear students,
I'm just gonna take the whole thing. No, if you
have to take loans, borrow responsibly. And then the other
(40:57):
thing I would say is, if you have to take
a loan, consider it an investment. If that's the only
thing keeping you from pursuing your post secondary goals, and
if you don't take this loan then you are stuck
and you can't move forward, then consider it an investment
and take that loan. But again, taking it responsibly is
(41:20):
what is what I would advise.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And you know what, I want to add one thing
to what Stacey just shared, because we spoke about this
in terms of a common application a minute ago. We
have over on a Big Future. We have on our
real Talk page we have the CBCA filter, which is
the Common Black College App filter. So if you go
on the real Talk page and you tap and you'll
(41:43):
see you know CBCA you tap that, it will actually
connect you to all of the institutions that accept the.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Common Black College App.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And when we think about financial and how to figure
out the best way to put your student in the
driver's seat, I really recommend you know, taking that time.
I think it's one application fee, but you can apply
to I believe it's nearly sixty different HBCUs. That way,
you'll select with HPCUS, you want to apply your team,
and you'll receive various financial aid packages. And I feel
(42:13):
that's important because now you really are in the driver's
seat to compare it and contrast different offer types that
are given an award to your student, and then you
can make additional financial decisions and considerations from that. But
you can say, Okay, I'm receiving from this school here
in this location, this is what our award is breaking down,
(42:34):
and this is the actual net price or sticker price
of attending. This is what this other institution is giving us.
And that way your childer are getting options to figure
out what is the best fit right once you've been
on campus, but also what's the best fit financially for
your team as well.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
And I would say also that doesn't mean apply to
sixty college. Yes, right basically, but also at the same time,
do not rule out a college because you are seeing
(43:11):
that sticker price because your application part that begins in
the fall of your senior year, but you aren't getting
your financial aid package until the spring. So while it
might have a large sticker price, you don't know what
the actual price is going to be for you. And
so if this is a school that you are just
in love with and you want to go, don't rule
(43:34):
it out because of that sticker price. But once you
get those financial packages, like Autumn said, you set them
side by side, do comparison, and then you make an
educated decision.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yes, I so appreciate that you said that safety because
it is really important these days. I know parents are
really nervous about these admission rates, etc. But please, if
your child is applying to a ridiculous number of schools,
and I'm just going to ask you to just give
me your sense of what is enough. I mean, sixty
schools is crazy. I mean what is the what's an
(44:06):
average number? Is it ten? Is it twelve? Is it nine?
What is the number above which you're getting into the
it's not worth it part? For me? Would you guys.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Say somewhere between five and ten is a decent number
if the student has done their diligent research, say beginning
their junior year and junior spring. They're doing like your
daughter did. They're going to campuses, they're talking to people,
they're researching the school. They're thinking about what is a
good fit for me, not for my best friend, right,
(44:40):
not just because I like the band, But I'm looking
at everything. And if your students do that, they're going
to come up with a list of schools that's probably
right around that number of schools that are a good
fit for them. And then once they have that, it's
important that they have a diverse list. And so by
that I mean, don't apply to only highly selective schools, right.
(45:03):
You need a variety. So have some schools that we
consider a reach. A reach is a school that I'm
not so sure I can get in, but I really
like the school. It's a school I would go to.
Then they should have a couple of safety schools. Those
are ones I'm pretty sure I can get in here.
Nothing is guaranteed these days, and then have several that
(45:24):
are in the middle in terms of where you feel
like your numbers are pretty spot on in terms of
the averages that they are promoting. So I would put
that somewhere between five and ten ten colleges to apply to.
And then also caution students from this comparison thing that
is so big in this generation in terms of I'm
(45:46):
looking at what my best friend is applying to or
how many colleges they apply to, and that just adds
to the anxiety and some questioning. So just stick to,
like Autumn said, being true to your in this compete
application process. And that goes for parents too, because as
parents we do that comparison thing to also right where
(46:07):
we're looking at, Okay, my neighbor's kids have applied here,
and then now you're putting pressure on your kid to
apply somewhere that's not even a good fit. So I
would say somewhere between five and ten care.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
One hundred percent agreement, one hundred percent. I always say
this because to me, this is just the biggest thing
is that north star to then own self, be true, right,
Really listen to what your team is honing in and
saying to you after those conversations in those campus visits
or after they've met with a campus recruiter.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Going to a college fair is a great way too,
because then you get to connect one on one with
the missions and talking, get a sense what they're feeling,
what they're saying. Honor that because again, holistically, to me,
this is a bigger life lesson when you're already encouraging
your child to follow and hone in on what is
(46:56):
instinctively what is for them and what is the right
fit for them. That's a bigger life skill that's going
to serve them well in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties
and down the line. And I think this is an
important time for teens and for parents to lean into
that that my student has figured this out, I'm going
to trust the process, encourage them, and really support the
(47:17):
institution that feels that is the right home and fit
for them.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'm going to wrap it up here as we wrap,
just you know we've talked about I started out by
talking about my interest in the calming of the process.
Could each of you just give me a quick word
of advice for parents who are just a really nervous
I mean understandably they're really nervous about this. So Autumn,
I'll start with you and then I'll go to Stacy.
What can we just say to parents as we wrap
(47:44):
what's the biggest thing that will help them stay calm
or get calm?
Speaker 2 (47:48):
I would say in two things. The first one is
I really really believe in the resources that are available
in big future. I mean, it really.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Demystifies the process.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It will help you in your team think through how
to explore careers, how to plan for college, and how
to pay for college. So that's one way to bring
some of that fear out of the process. But also,
as we always stay on a real talk, you've got this,
You've got this, you can do this, you will do this,
and you keep honoring and I say this for the
(48:18):
third time, but honor and listen to your student and
your team, and just by you knowing that you are
caring about your child, that is already half the process.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
So you've got this.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Keep listening, keep having those open conversations and dialogues and
creating those moments, and everything is going to work out, okay,
signed the woman who changed majors four times and figured
it out.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Okay, it will work out.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Okay, thanks Autumn Stacy.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Anything to add, of course, but plus one to all
of that, Yes it is going to be okay. Absolutely,
But I would add, as parents, you know, so we
just want the best for our children, and so we
go through our own things and our own anxiety and
our own worries and concerns, especially in this process. So
(49:10):
I would encourage parents find that support network. And I'm
not talking about a large network, right, I'm talking about
maybe one or two parents who have either gone through
it or are currently going through it, but that have
that calming presence. Not that friend who is on one
hundred all the time that's not going to help you
(49:34):
calm the process, but finding that support person or people
in your world that help you walk through this process
and help remind you when you start getting concerned and
anxious that no, it's going to be okay. It's just
step by step by step and it's going to be
find that person and lean on them when you need to.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Oh, great advice from the both of you. I'm going
to wrap it up here and I want to say
thank you so much to the both of you for
joining me on this podcast. It's been a great conversation
as I knew it would, and you guys have given
us so much really useful information. So parents, listen to this,
take this, run with it, stay calm, and it will
be okay. Thank you both, Stacy and Autumn, Thank you
(50:18):
so much. Thank thank you for having us so in
this episode, we heard a lot about what the college
board has to offer, and we talked a lot about
their Big Future and Real Talk programs. Before I go,
I just want to make sure everyone knows how to
find all this info online. So go to CollegeBoard dot org.
That's college Board one word co L L E G
E B O A r D dot org. Scroll to
(50:42):
the middle of the page and look for the column
labeled Big Future. Click on that Big Future column and
that will take you to the Big Future homepage. And
that's where you'll find all sorts of helpful information about
the college process, including the career, college and scholarship quizzes
that we talked about. And once you're on the Big
Future page, you can scroll all the way down to
the bottom and under community and Events you'll see Real Talk,
(51:05):
the career and college planning guide for Black students and
families that we talked a lot about, and you can
click on Real Talk there to go to the Real
Talk homepage. I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation and
that you'll come back for more. Please subscribe, rate and
review where you find your podcasts, and tell your friends.
For more parenting info and advice, please check out Groundcontrol
parenting dot com. You can also find us on Instagram
(51:28):
and Facebook, at Ground Control Parenting and on LinkedIn under
Carol Sutton Lewis. Until the next time, take care and
thanks for listening.
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