91. Mold & Dizziness: What You Need to Know

Could mold be making you dizzy? In this eye-opening episode, we sit down with Corey from We Inspect, a nationally recognized mold inspection company that specializes in identifying hidden environmental triggers. Corey breaks down:🏠 How mold exposure can contribute to dizziness, brain fog, and vestibular symptoms🔍 Why traditional mold tests often miss the root cause🛠️ What makes a proper inspection different—and how to get real answers💡 Practical steps you can take if you suspect your home is making you sick Whether you’ve tried everything or you’re just beginning your healing journey, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to explore the environmental side of vestibular disorders. Links/Resources Mentioned: Vestibular Group Fit (code GROUNDED at checkout!)  Clean Your Moldy Stuff Guide 10 Most Common Remediation Mistakes We Inspect Mold Remediation Free Consultation More Links/Resources: ⁠The 4 Steps to Managing Vestibular Migraine ⁠The PPPD Management Masterclass⁠ ⁠What your Partner Should Know About Living with Dizziness⁠ ⁠The FREE Mini VGFit Workout⁠ ⁠The FREE POTS - safe Workouts⁠ ⁠Vestibular Group Fit (code GROUNDED at checkout for 15% off your first subscription cycle!) ⁠ Connect with Dr. Madison: ⁠@⁠⁠TheVertigoDoctor ⁠ ⁠@TheOakMethod⁠ ⁠@VestibularGroupFit⁠ Connect with Dr. Jenna @dizzy.rehab.therapist  Work with Dr. Madison 1:1, Vestibular Rehabilitation Therapy Vestibular Group Fit Small Group Coaching (offered throughout the year, sign up for our email list to learn when!) Why The Oak Method? Learn about it here! Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! Please consider leaving one for us.  This podcast is for informational purposes only and may not be the best fit for you and your personal situation. It shall not be construed as medical advice. The information and education provided here is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. Always check with your own physician or medical professional before trying or implementing any information read here.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Hey, friend. Welcome to Grounded, the vestibular podcast.
I'm doctor Madison Oak, AKA the vertigo doctor.
I am the vestibular physical therapist who is
here to help you with all things dizziness,
imbalance, and vertigo.
In this podcast, we explore the fascinating world
of vestibular disorders. Come with me as we
dive into the journey to discover the mysteries
of dizziness, the brain, inner ear, and the

(00:26):
balance mechanisms that keep us grounded.
Whether you've been managing your dizziness for one
day or for twenty five years, we are
going to get real about what it takes
to manage dizziness, handle the anxiety cycle, and
thrive, not just survive with your vestibular disorder.
First, I want to remind you that this
is never medical advice. Remember this podcast is
for informational purposes only and may or may

(00:46):
not be the best fit for you and
your personal situation.
It shall not be construed as medical advice.
The information and education provided here is not
intended or implied to supplement or replace professional
medical treatment, advice, and or diagnosis. Always check
with your own physician, medical professionals, and health
care team before trying or implementing any information

(01:07):
found here. Meet me in your coziest chair
while we navigate the highs and lows and
the twists and turns of the vestibular universe.
Welcome to Grounded.
Let's dive in.
Hello. Welcome back to Grounded. My name is
Madison, and I have Corey from We Inspect,
and the dust test today, which I'm really

(01:28):
excited to talk about mold and dizziness and
vertigo and all of the things about inspecting
your home. And this is a question that
I honestly get a lot, so I'm really
excited to have you here
about living in mold because literally all homes
are moldy. That's kind of terrifying. And no
one's me. All of them. It's funny because,
like, it's a it's a stigma. Like, oh
my god. You have Yeah. Right? And it's

(01:50):
like, oh, you're so dirty. Mhmm. Right? But,
actually,
every single home has it. Correct. And it's
really just about understanding what we need to
be focused on and what actually
is impacting us Totally. And getting rid of
the bad so that we can focus on
getting better. Mhmm. And that's that's the important
part.
Absolutely. And we also need to know that,

(02:10):
like,
my remedial mold,
information in my head,
that
it's
more than just, like obviously, there's always gonna
be some mold, like, you tracked it on
your shoes or your dog has it on
your feet on their feet. Or
you left strawberries in the fridge for too
long and now they're all gross or whatever.

(02:32):
So there's a lot of different ways
that mold can happen. It's not just mold
in walls or mold under floor, even though
I assume that's probably what we're gonna talk
about today because that is the most problematic
of all of it. You're correct. Actually, a
% correct. Right? And we and we get
and and end of end of show. That
was it. It started to solve all the
problems. You solved it.

(02:53):
Yeah. It's it's it's about being focused. So
I'll I'll share my background with you real
quick.
So I'm actually a second generation indoor air
quality expert.
I have
I kinda joke and say my dad had
me in crawl spaces at 17 years old,
but he actually did. So I've been around
this for a really long time.
What's the differentiating

(03:15):
factor for what my family has been doing
now for well over twenty years is that
we actually specifically work with people that are
dealing with health concerns. So we draw the
parallel between the health and the home connection
for people
that may be dealing with more chronic
complex illness
or elongated,
symptoms that don't seem to be getting better

(03:36):
under normal treatment practices.
And they're the ones sitting in the home
while everybody else is feeling better, yet,
you know, the practitioner they're working with is
the treatments just are not getting them where
they need to be. So
we we started as a inspection company,
where we come in and do a very
thorough in-depth deep dive into the home to
help identify where sources are located and then

(03:58):
set the paths for remediation, so how to
clean up, and being very focused on the
areas that are gonna have the highest return
on healthy indoor air.
And in that time period, we also created
a screening tool for homeowners, renters to use
to even know if they should do an
inspection
by breaking down the molds in their home
to the species level and getting a really

(04:20):
thorough understanding of how significant the issues are
in the home and if they this is
possibly the mystery
that has been causing them to feel the
way that they've been feeling for so long.
Absolutely. And I can speak to the vestibular
part of this that
so many people
have been exposed to mold unknowingly.

(04:41):
Like, I know that I I was exposed
to it in my college apartment. Like, I
think that's a very common story. We did
test our home before
we purchased it. It lacked probably about a
year ago with a dust test. And
I think that, like,
knowing that is so important because I know
where the mold that I have came from.

(05:02):
It's from my college department. It was literally
like,
I should have had a dehumidifier in there,
but we didn't because I was 19.
But, you know, it is what it is.
It is what it is. It is what
it is. Can still last for
years and years and years
post
that exposure.
Yeah.
And the effect it has on you is
not always going to be

(05:23):
vestibular disorder. It could be so many different
things. Obviously,
on this podcast, we talk a lot about
dizziness. But
if someone is thinking to themselves, like, does
mold cause dizziness? The answer is yes, but
or yes. And it also causes other things.
And it's sort of what your body is
genetically
predisposed
to

(05:44):
that is
going to happen rather than
it's always causing dizziness or always has headache
or whatever.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Because the thing is mold
manifests in different ways. Right? So we think
of mold and everyone, like, grows up knowing
mold because they saw their grandma probably throwing
bleach on it back in the day and
made it not a big deal. Right? Or

(06:05):
she was sponsored by Clorox or something, and,
like, that's all that they did back then.
All grandmas. All grandmas sponsored by Clorox.
So, like but that's please take away the
fact that don't ever put bleach on mold,
and we'll talk about that later. I do.
Yeah. Just, like, don't do that.
But the the the understanding of what we
grew up was, like, well, you'd have an

(06:26):
allergenic response, or you would have a respiratory
issue.
Right?
And, actually,
mold produces a variety of different byproducts, all
of which can have a different effect on
the body.
So molds will produce spores, which we all
know about. Right? Reproductive mechanisms, think of them
as tiny seeds that float in the air,
and they're responsible to grow more molt. But

(06:47):
while they're floating around or settling out in
our dust and getting back in our breathing
zone, they will cause allergenic responses. They will
cause respiratory issues, but they cause inflammation
too. Right?
And when you talk about
the vestibular
issues that can come along with that, certain
species also will colonize us.
So they'll grow in our nasal passage.

(07:09):
They'll grow in our gut. They'll grow in
our skin. Right?
And so they'll treat us as a host,
which is really gross and nasty to think
about. But they'll they'll do that,
and, they'll they can throw off so much
and cause inflammatory responses in a variety of
different areas within the body.
And as somebody who has has experienced vertigo

(07:31):
myself earlier this year,
actually,
crazy enough, Madison, I was Oh, no. Doing
an inspection
while it happened to me. The first bout
that I've ever had of vertigo other than
from COVID Oh my gosh.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm in a house. I'm
doing an inspection,
full respirator respirator everything on it, and I

(07:52):
just start spinning.
And I'm like, oh my god. Did I
catch COVID on this airplane on the way
out here to this person's house? I was
like, how did how did that happen?
That was my initial thought. And then I'm
like, I'm sitting there, and I'm thinking about
some of these case studies I've read and
and how
this is a common complaint with mold. And
and and I'm getting some of those effects.

(08:13):
And come to find out later on, I
had a sinus infection, all these other things
coming into play that was causing,
in addition to the exposure
of the mold, causing so much inflammation in
my tubes that was throwing off this this,
this issue. Absolutely.
Yeah. Mold is gnarly. So I was saying
last year, we bought a house and we

(08:33):
had it, like, fully inspected, but then, like,
I know enough about mold to be dangerous,
but not enough to, like, actually know about
I similar to you who grew up doing
home inspections, my parents are both in construction.
Like, one's an architect, one builds houses.
And so houses, I'm like, oh, yeah. We'll
just go in the crawl space. We'll look
in the attic. Like, I will go with
the inspector, and the inspector staring at me

(08:54):
like, woman, are you okay? And I'm like,
no. For real.
And
so because I was looking, I also have
I also make friends with a lot of
architects because I don't know. That's just the
way my life works. And so I brought
our friend with us, and he's like, I'm
gonna go in the crawl space with you.
And he looked, he goes, you do not
go
in here. And I was like, what? He
goes, uh-uh. Don't come. And I was like,

(09:15):
okay. My husband had gone back to work
at this point, and he takes pictures of
it. And it's literally just like the whole
under the floor is moldy. And then I
come out,
and,
the inspector who's, like, actually doing the inspection,
we're just, like, bopping around this house. I
can hear him dictating to his phone. He's
like, black mold in entire attic and ceiling

(09:35):
needs new roof immediately, like,
really bad.
But we drove down the street after to
chat, and he and I were just sitting
there talking. He's like, I feel as though
I am now a mold spore. Like, we
were both coughing. Like, we've been in the
house for maybe thirty minutes, but without respirators
or masks on or whatever because we're just
standing there inside, outside, whatever. But it really

(09:56):
can happen so fast if you're sensitive to
it. It really can.
I mean, it it's at its form, just
the spores themselves are allergens. But then you
think about, like, the other byproducts if you've
got more elongated exposure.
So mold will also
produce something called an M VOC,
microbial
volatile organic compound. So you probably know of

(10:19):
VOCs from paint, like the paint odor. Right?
Well, then you've got certain ones that will,
molds that will produce a microbial smell. So
musty, mildewy, earthy. Right?
Again, back to grandma because that's the only
person I could think of when I think
of these poor grandma.
But go into her house and that musty
right?

(10:39):
That musty order. Or or how about this?
How about, like, an old library? Right? Something
there we go.
And you've got that musty mildewy smell. That's
actually the mold's digestive process. So their job
is to break down, eat the surface they're
growing on. They return things to the Earth.
So then you can have headaches,
dizziness,
just from the smells and the odor, burning

(11:00):
eyes, scratchy throats, a lot of, like, what
we call irritants,
to that. And then this is where it
gets really complex,
and this is where the the medical community
is starting to tie exposure back to the
home is they'll produce
toxins called mycotoxins.
So if you ever hear somebody say, I

(11:21):
have had toxic mold exposure.
Yes. They're talking about a specific mold,
but certain molds will produce this toxin,
and it's actually a chemical
meant to defend their territory.
K? And the best way to think about
this and distill this is is through how
we use it in conventional medicine today. So
if you've ever had a bacterial infection,

(11:44):
you're gonna get an antibiotic.
So what are antibiotics?
Penicillin.
Mold is made that is a mycotoxin made
from penicillin mold. Right? And what do we
do take that for? To kill bacteria
that is in our body that we don't
want there. What are we? Bacteria.
Right? So
then you expose yourself

(12:05):
to molds that will produce these toxins that
are known to be more neuroimpacting,
immune system impacting
over a longer a long period of times.
You start to see systemic breakdowns on people.
Brain fog, fatigue,
neurological implications. You start to see immune system
shut down. You start to see issues with,

(12:27):
the, reproductive system shut down. Right? So it
really
becomes a systemic impact on the body, particularly
for those that do not detox well.
And so then these things build up over
time. And if you wanna visualize this
one day of exposure in a moldy building,
you're gonna take 20,000

(12:48):
breaths a day.
20,000.
You know what the size of that's the
size of an Olympic swimming pool.
It's huge. Right? That's wild.
It's wild. So then if you can imagine,
we're talking about microscopic
organisms that are floating in the air, and
then the mycotoxins are even smaller. And so,
yeah, we'll trap some of it in our

(13:09):
nose and in our throat, but the majority
of that is getting into our body. And
our the job of our our immune system
is to try and say good, bad, keep
the good, get rid of the bad. But
if it's overwhelmed and it can't keep up
with the bad, well, then it needs to
do something with it, and it starts to
store it in areas of the body. And
then you hit this toxic burn at tipping.

(13:29):
And you could be living in a place
for three months, six months, a year, and
then all of a sudden, boom, these symptoms
come on. Totally. And I like what you
said about being a poor detoxer. Not that
anyone wants to be dubbed as a poor
detoxer, but so many people are poor detoxers.
And it literally is just your genetics.
You can't pick your parents.
It's

(13:50):
it's too bad. And at the end of
the day, it's just what you're genetically predisposed
to. Yes. You can turn on and off
different epigenetic pathways,
but you can't, like, get a new comped
gene. You can't get a new
HLA set. You can't get a new MTHFR
mechanism situation.
And if you wanna know whether or not

(14:12):
you are a poor detoxer or a good
detoxer or you're sensitive more sensitive to mold
than other people, we can talk about the
difference between, like, allergy to mold and detoxing
mold. But,
you can get your genetics tested for these
specific things. And we're actually doing a study
right now about
poor detox and,
vestibular migraine. Because not only mold that you're

(14:33):
trying to detox. Right? That's the other thing
is like your body is trying to detox
every chemical that we go through, especially it's
springtime now. Everyone's, like, doing their lawn out
front of wherever. It's like, oh my god.
Those chemicals are so horrible.
The Roundup, the pesticide on your food, whether
it's organic or not, the ultra processed food
that, like, everyone's eating some amounts of

(14:54):
the just, like, things in our environments no
matter who you are and where you live.
You're detoxing all of that, and then you
go into a multi building. And so all
of these things affect us a lot. It's
yeah. And it's it's many times, it's a
straw that breaks the camel's back. Absolutely.
Because you're you're it it is you know,
everyone wants a smoking gun. Right? What is

(15:15):
the one problem? Like, even when they call
us, they're like,
hey.
I want you
to be the one thing that's my problem,
and I'll find all the problems in your
home. That's no that we do that really
well. But, actually,
we need to make sure that you're also
working with your practitioner
on the rest of it because we're just

(15:36):
a tool in the tool belt. If we're
not doing things as a team,
it's gonna create a problem. So it's like,
okay. I have to control my food. I
have to control my the air that I
breathe. Right? I have to be getting enough
sleep, like, doing all the the good care
things to make us better.
And it's it's just a a piece in
the bigger puzzle of things that we need
to be focused on. And I'm really glad

(15:58):
you brought this up because
a lot of times, what you'll see is,
like,
the the gene aspect, the genetic aspect is
the reason why
you feel bad, but your partner doesn't. Right?
And
and, like, the expectation is we'll mold, then
everybody should be sick.
Actually, more common,

(16:20):
it's not that.
Actually, when we're working with a family of
four, one, maybe two people are sick. Everybody
else is completely fine.
There was a study. I I was doing
a little research getting ready for you, and
I wanted to learn more about,
vertigo symptoms
in individuals
exposed to mold. There's a study out of
Finland,

(16:40):
and they took 98,
this was actually occupational study.
98,
individuals who are exposed at work
to dampness. They don't mention mold, but they
have dampness wet building. Right? What we call,
like, wet building syndrome. Right?
And,
what they looked at is sixty four percent
of those people

(17:01):
complained of neurological
dizziness symptoms
out of the ninety eight people in this
study. Right?
And the rest of them, guess what? No
symptoms.
Yet they were in the same environment. They
sent the same amount of time there. Right?
So while the majority of them had symptoms,
there was a there was a subset of
them that did not. Now I think that

(17:23):
those numbers are are increasing as to the
more and more of us that are impacted
because of all the things that you just
mentioned. Right? Because it's a there's food issues.
We have microplastics in our water. We've got
all these different things. Right? It's like the
the world is always burning.
So, like, how do I be really focused
on what I need to be focused on

(17:43):
knowing that this is a part
of all of it? And that, okay.
My practitioner can only do so much if
I'm standing in the swimming pool and trying
to dry myself off at the same time.
I'm never gonna get dry. Right? So I
have to fix my environment from food to
air to water to good practice.
I totally and completely agree. And that is

(18:05):
a lot of what we talk about just
like in,
I don't know, on my social media, in
my group programs, my one on one. Like,
it's so important to evaluate
your environment, and I don't just mean,
like, where you physically live in New York
City or Denver or where I live in
Jackson, Wyoming. Like, I I doesn't matter. I

(18:26):
mean,
like, what amount of stress are you under?
How much are you exercising? Are you going
for a walk? Do you see the sunlight
during the day? Do you keep your at
least keep your windows open? Do you get
up throughout the day and being, like,
brutally honest with yourself about it? Because I
think a lot of people are like, yeah.
I eat super well and I exercise enough.

(18:46):
And I'm like, okay. Well, tell me about
that. And when they actually start to talk
about it, a lot of times they're like,
oh, maybe I'm not actually doing that. I'm
not actually
hitting the marks that I'm trying to hit.
Like, I was talking to someone yesterday, and
she was like, yeah. I eat practically no
fiber. But she's like, I'm a super healthy
person. I eat really well, and I do
this, but it's all protein. There's literally, like,

(19:07):
one gram of fiber a day. And so
you really do have to be it's almost
a hard conversation with yourself is my point.
And it's not just mold. Like, mold is
a huge problem, %, but it's not just
that.
Yeah. And that's part of, like, how we
approach things with people. Right? You know, I
think when you when you look at
the over the overwhelming

(19:28):
nature that comes with okay.
How do I do what do I do?
Right? There's I gotta check my water. I
gotta walk outside. I gotta do all this.
Just, like, a million things. Like, where do
I even begin and know what string to
pull on? What's gonna have the highest needle
for me?
And that's the reason why we created the
dust test even to begin with was
because
we need a mechanism

(19:50):
to understand what is considered normal and
possibly what's correlating to my body. So, Matt
Madison, have you ever had clinical testing for
mold done on yourself? I have it. I
have. You have it? Yeah. I had a
urine test with a You did the urine
test? Did
the mosaic urine test. It wasn't, like,
out of this world

(20:10):
Mhmm. Crazy, but it was there. And I
know what it's attributing to in my personal
body. We don't have to, like, go there.
But, yes. Yeah. We don't Let's share your
health. Done it. Yes. To share all my
health problems. Yeah.
But no. I it is a thing for
me. I have had it tested, and that's
why when we moved, those super moldy house
I was telling you about, we did not

(20:31):
purchase that house. K. But when we did
move, I was like everyone was like, why
are you doing so many times? Like, I
you have to. Yeah. Being you have to
be aware of these things. Yeah. So what's
really cool Mhmm.
Is that now
we can take what's in your body Mhmm.
And we can look at your home.

(20:51):
And I'll be able to tell you
these molds here
Mhmm. Align with what's in your body.
So
the mycotoxins,
that MOSAIC test that you did, there's MOSAIC,
there's real time, there's vibrant. There's a ton
of them now. Right?
And what's crazy about it is I've I've
I've talked to all these companies all the
time.
The mold mycotoxin tests are like their best

(21:11):
sellers now. Really?
Everybody it's such a great thing to hear.
It's like the shift is finally happening that
these practitioners are looking at this. Mhmm. But
what we're able to do
is correlate species to toxin in the body.
So
what what this test is, it's it's it's
from a study called IRMI.
I'm sure you've probably heard of it. It

(21:32):
stands for Yeah. Yeah. It stands for environmental
relative moldiness index. Okay. So it was actually
a survey,
done by the EPA. They took 1,100
homes. Half of those homes had a a
reported a known history of water damage and
mold.
The other half,
as a homeowner, I don't know anything that's
going on. Mhmm. And they came up with

(21:52):
a list of 36 common indoor mold species.
Okay?
And then they looked at the geometric mean
of each of the molds and came up
with thresholds of normal. All homes, as we've
discussed, have some degree of mold. And then
they're able to give a scoring system
as to how significant of a problem are
we really looking at here. K?
It's amazing because it breaks it down to

(22:14):
the species. Mhmm. Now what we could then
do is say, okay. Species,
let's say stachybot chaturum, which is, like, the
celebrity of all molds, if you will, the
black mold that everybody talks about, it produces
something called trichothecenes,
which is a mycotoxin
that is in all of these different tests
that Madison and I just rattled off. So

(22:36):
this particular,
the this particular test will then be able
to say, okay. If you have trichothecenes in
your body and there's stachybotrys chitarum in your
home, well, we know that there's a correlation
here that's likely that type of exposure.
Right? That makes a ton of sense.
So it's for those that are trying to
figure out, okay. Well,

(22:57):
what do I do I even know if
I have a problem here? You can go
down that initial route, test my body,
test my home. Some people majority of people
that that we work with have already gotten
the test of the body. Now they're trying
to figure out if it's the home. Right?
Then there's the other side of this. Well,
I don't know that I need to even
test my body at this point,

(23:18):
because sometimes if we're not detoxing well, like
we talked about,
what happens? That means we're not pushing these
toxins out. So even you can even do
a clinical test, and it will tell you
everything looks fine right now. And until you
get with a practitioner who's gonna give you
the right detox program, it may stay stuck
in there for a little while.

(23:38):
But with the dust test,
there's no hiding.
So with these spores, the way that they
they work, the sources could be inside a
wall or ventilation system or in a crawl
space. It doesn't matter. They disperse throughout a
home.
And,
eventually, as the saying goes, what comes up
must come down. Right? So it gets into

(23:59):
our dust. And so by testing the dust,
we're gonna understand load within the environment.
And the name of the game here is
not getting you to zero. It's about reducing
load.
K?
And so the body on its own should
be able to handle exposure,
but when the load is too high, it
becomes a problem.

(24:20):
And so, really,
it's a great first step if I'm looking
around my house and I don't see anything,
and I'm going, okay.
You know, nothing visible here. I don't see
any black mold growing up the walls, which
is so rare. It never happens. But you
know?
Or see what you saw in a crawl
space or an attic. Like So gross.

(24:40):
So, yeah, that is, like Mhmm. That happens,
but it's very rare. Right?
Usually, when people are bringing us in, it's
like, I've looked everywhere. I don't see anything.
Mhmm. Everything is dry.
And I maybe recently moved in this house
a couple years ago. I've never had water
events, so I don't really know the history.
Yeah. Like, I need to I need to
get a screen. And this is gonna

(25:02):
essentially give you a score of one to
five. Mhmm. How significant is my problem, and
do I need to take it take it
further? Totally.
And I think it's so honestly, just, like,
helpful to know
what you might be getting yourself into. Because
had I bought home a, I would have
been getting myself into a new foundation and

(25:23):
a new attic, which really just means a
whole new house. Like, that's not even
that's a whole house. It's probably in the
walls at that point, all the things. Home
b, I tested,
but I couldn't, and I tested it twice.
I it got I don't remember the score,
but it wasn't
super low.
But I remember the spots that I and
this house was like,

(25:44):
the,
basement was clean and dry. The attic the
ceiling was cleaning dry. So I was like,
it's somewhere weird
else. Somewhere else weird.
And we this is one of, like, the
driest places on planet Earth. Like, the humidity
in my house, I have humidity humidity modern.
It's like 11%.
Oof. So, like, it's somewhere weird. Yep. It
was in my baseboard heaters.

(26:06):
Uh-huh. Took those out, retested the whole house,
gone. There you go. Like, practically a zero
now. And so
kind of knowing it's hard to know, though,
if you're not
familiar
with the anatomy of a house,
like, where that could be. My mom and
I had a lot of very long conversations
before we put this out. It's about where
it could be because I was freaked out.

(26:27):
But it's important. And I think it's not
just the bathroom. Like, a lot of people
are like, well, the bathroom smells musty or
whatever. There's a million reasons that could be
true. Yeah. Or, like, everyone's grout on the
bottom is, like Yeah. Kinda gnarly, and then
they bleach it, and then it turns white.
You're not killing mold with bleach. You're just
turning it white. Yes. It doesn't penetrate deep
enough. It just Nope. Top layer only.

(26:48):
Yeah.
So I am curious if you have because
I think this is the most common place
people will see mold visibly is gonna be
in the bathroom.
Yep. So let's say you're a person, you
live in, like, an older house, you either
own it or you don't, who's to say?
And you're like, I'm starting to see a
little bit of mold grow
where,
like, let's say where the bathtub meets the

(27:10):
tile or, like, in the grout somewhere, something
pretty common like that. Right?
If you are a person who sees this,
does that immediately mean I need to retile
my whole bathroom?
Or is there something that someone can do
about that? Because I think it's scary. Like,
oh my god. I have to take apart
my whole house now. That's not cheap, and
the cost of wood is just going up.
The cost of wood is just going up.

(27:31):
It is.
It is. You're right.
So what are people supposed to do? Yeah.
So there's look. There's a couple reasons why
it can grow there. It could be the
manifestation of a bigger problem because the spore
count is so high, and it could manifest
there consistently.
Now the other thing is, like,
there's always mold in the air. So even

(27:51):
if you don't have a problem, if the
conditions are right in that space,
then it's gonna grow.
Right? And
so even if it's just it could be
as easy as after I get out of
the shower, I'm just gonna dry towel around
the edge of
the bathtub where there's water sitting there, or
I get a squeegee and I squeegee out.
Right?

(28:12):
Those type of things
can help,
can help reduce mold growth there. And so
if you do that, let's say you just
replace that grout because you can bleach it
till you're blue in the face. It's just
gonna keep coming back. Right? So just you
know, in those cases, you can replace the
grout work. And then
if you're wiping and it comes back that
quickly,
there's there could be something going on in

(28:33):
the home. There's a couple of other ways
that you can
know if there's a potential problem,
and it's not looking for mold.
So, like, the the thing that people always
think of, well, I'll know mold I'll know
I have mold if I see it. But,
unfortunately, mold actually hides.
It typically hides
in interstitial areas, attics, crawl spaces, inside walls,

(28:56):
floor ceilings. K? So the secret is actually
looking for water damage,
not mold.
And so there's several signs of it. It's
bubbling. It's buckling of building materials.
You know, looking at your baseboards, if it's,
like, kinda separating off the wall a little
bit, you know, in basements and crawl spaces,

(29:17):
you'll see, like, this powder on the foundation
wall is called efflorescence
or rust stains.
These are all signs of either where there's
moisture
or moisture was
and is now gone.
And this is the missing key right here
is the act of the act of wet
building material idea.

(29:38):
So
insurance companies have spent a lot of money
trying to educate you on the fact that
if something is dry,
then there is no problem.
Right? And so, unfortunately,
that is not the case. And so let's
just try and imagine
compare it to something we all can visualize.

(29:59):
If you have a tree outside
and you decide to stop watering that tree,
it's not like after a week, you walk
outside and the tree packed its roots up
and moved down the block to greener pastures.
The tree is there,
and that tree is not going anywhere for
a very, very long time.
Right? It's gonna shed its leads. It's gonna

(30:21):
be a stick that's gonna sit there. It's
gonna start to decay. All these things need
to have is to go through a lake.
It could be decades before that tree falls
over and returns to the earth. Right? In
your home, it's very similar. So when there's
a water event, mold, depending on the species,
will grow within twenty four to forty eight
hours. That's how quick this stuff moves.
And then once it's there

(30:43):
and it it grows, it colonizes is what
it's called.
It plants root like structure into the building
material it's growing on. And then it all
it plant it plants,
almost like branches, and the spores sit on
the branches.
So
when that happens,
it's there. It's rooted. There's no surface treatment

(31:03):
that's gonna get rid of it. You need
to remove it somehow. So if it's on
drywall and it's in there, you kinda gotta
remove the drywall. If it's on wood, there's,
you know, sanding or methods that they can
do with antifungal treatment to get rid of
it, but you gotta get to the wood
framing underneath that area. So if it's dry,
all that means is that mold now is
gonna start to go into a dormant phase.

(31:25):
It's gonna start to get more dry and
more brittle. Well, what does that mean? Well,
that means it gets into the air easier.
Right?
The spores are smaller.
They fragment easier. That means it gets into
the body easier.
We estimate that about eighty percent of the
issues we find in people's homes are due
to past water damage events that have occurred.

(31:46):
That's interesting.
That makes sense. Active.
Yeah.
That totally makes sense. So
I was talking to someone the other day
with Meniere's disease,
and I was like, do you have mold
in your house? And I could see she's
at a home visit. She lives here, but
I could see her ceiling.
And they're like, the the paint is flaking
off and, like, it's coming down. I could

(32:07):
see it through a Zoom screen. Like, that's
pretty decent.
And she's like, no. And I was like,
you've never had mold in your house. And
she's like, well, one time, a long time
ago in this wall that's, like, kinda near
the garage. But, like, we did some research,
and we just killed it.
And so now it's gone. And I was
like,
no.
That it's not gone. And I, like, obviously,

(32:28):
I said this very kind way kinder than
I am being right now. I was like,
no. It's not gone. And, also, you should
look up.
And
that house is right next to a river.
It's, like, in a different part of town
where, like, the water rises more and whatever.
Yeah.
And, like, where I live in town where
literally there I could pay someone to put
humidity in my house, please.

(32:50):
But
I think it's
really important to know what that is. And
people don't wanna tell you if there's water
damage when they sell it even though technically,
legally, they have to. They have to. Yep.
But people either they don't know because, like,
it got built in the nineteen twenties. Like,
I have friends who, like, part of their
wall was squishy, and I was like, you
guys gotta fix that, and they did. But

(33:13):
it's been so long
that either you don't know and a hundred
people have lived there,
or it's a new build, which is equally
as problematic and no one thinks it's a
problem.
And it got rained on, and
now you have a mold problem.
Yeah. So no matter what kind of house
you live in, you can still have this
issue. Yeah. I think the killing is is

(33:34):
actually really important to talk about Yes. Because
there's a lot of there's a lot of
kill solutions that exist out there. I'll come
in. I'll fog it. Yeah, I'll fog it.
I'll kill it. I'll do whatever. Right?
Best way to think about it. If you
called somebody and said I have a skunk
in my wall, I could smell it. I
could hear it.
Please help. They come. They go and they

(33:56):
find it. They kill the skunk, and they
go, no worries. I killed it, but they
don't take it out of your house. What
do you think is gonna happen?
It's gonna stink. It's gonna rot. So bad?
It's gonna smell so bad. Right?
And then there's other aspects if you have
some, you know, bacteria and all this other
stuff. Let's leave that off the table. But,
like,
with mold, if you kill it,

(34:19):
first off, all you're doing is saying you
are now dead. You can't grow more
mold.
Right?
Fine.
But the allergenic,
the toxigenic toxins or chemicals, you can't kill
chemicals. All of that is still there. And
now we have something that's decaying, so it's
gonna fragment. It's gonna get in the air.
It's getting the body. It's
really like telling somebody

(34:40):
who has a peanut allergy
that if you eat a peanut out of
the ground
that isn't roasted,
that you will have a reaction. But once
you roast the peanut and the peanut is
dead, then you shouldn't have a reaction at
all. You'll be completely fine.
Oh, jeez.
Yeah. So It's not not gonna work. Not
gonna work. Right? It's about removal. It's about

(35:02):
source. And
I think the the the important part through
this process for for everybody
to understand
is that there are always going to be
multiple sources in a home and that there
are certain ones that you really need to
be focused on, and there are certain ones
that you don't.
And when you're talking

(35:22):
with
companies to figure out, okay,
I see the signs. I see the the,
you know, I looked under my sinks. I
looked around my windows.
You know, I popped up into the attic.
I'm seeing things. I'm seeing water damage. I'm
seeing staining. I'm seeing suspect mold growth.
I need help figuring out what to do
now.
There's two companies in this industry.

(35:44):
The first one, the inspectors. It's kinda like
what we do. Right? We're the guys who
come out. We're like the diagnostic team.
We come into the home. We look all
over the place. We run a bunch of
targeted testing, so we know the type and
the quantity in specific areas, and then we
write the action plan for cleaning.
That's where our responsibility
ends. Then a separate company comes in to

(36:05):
follow the plan of action we put together.
They're called remediation
companies.
Really key. Always should be separate. Never should
be the same.
The other thing, when you create that division
down the line, you make sure that what
is being done is being done to the
fullest extent,
and we're not cutting corners, but also we're

(36:26):
not doing too much. Right? Like, if you're
in a bathroom and there's some mold on
the ceiling, you don't need to gut your
bathroom. It's probably just a ceiling.
But remediators
make money the more work they do. So
you you wanna bring them in you wanna
bring an inspection and testing company in to
really set the right protocol.
The second
is understanding

(36:47):
which areas in the home are the most
important ones to be focused on. So I
had a woman two weeks ago call me.
She's been sick for a really, really long
time. She, she actually has SIRS, which is
chronic inflammatory response syndrome.
And
she had somebody come out, a remediator,
who came in with a moisture meter, which

(37:09):
for those that don't know, a moisture meter
tells you if a surface is wet or
not. And she showed him a couple areas
where she knew of problems.
Everything was dry. So he's like, yeah. There's
no problem. It's all dry. Poked his head
into the attic, and he saw what you
saw when you were looking at that house.
Covered in mold. Right? So he goes up.
There it is. I found your problem.

(37:30):
$25,000
to remediate the
attic. She paid it.
Right?
And
moves back into the house.
No change.
And so
the problem
is not the fact that he didn't find
an issue because he clearly found a problem.
There's no doubt that there was mold in
there. She sent me the photo. You could

(37:52):
see it. The problem is is was that
the needle that she needed to pull or
the thread that she needed to pull? And
unfortunately, for her, it wasn't because
in speaking with her for twenty minutes on
the phone, I found out very, very quickly,
she had five other water events in this
house,
and
they're in the general living areas of where

(38:13):
she lives.
She has an HVAC system in her attic
that they didn't even clean, look at, open,
nothing. They were just so focused on selling
her on attic remediation
and not really doing a thorough enough process
or giving her an understanding of, hey. Actually,
there's this mold underneath your sink and and
this mold in this bathroom,

(38:33):
and she invested all of her money that
she had in this attic. And now, Madison,
she's gotta move. Like, she can't even stay
there anymore.
That's so difficult. Yeah.
People it's I mean, it's so hard because
when you whether it's a doctor or a
lawyer or someone whatever,
tells you what to do, you're like, yeah.

(38:53):
Of course.
Right? Like, why would you not believe them?
But it is so, so, so difficult
because
a second, third, fourth opinion is almost always
needed.
And
it's,
like,
it's just hard. There's no Hard.
Easy way around it. And

(39:15):
maybe the ceiling was part of it, but
it probably wasn't the whole
nine yards
or even the problem that obviously she was
dealing with. And I know a lot of
people who've been, I feel so much better
on vacation. I'm like, I there are two
reasons for this. Yeah. Yeah. First reason is
you are way less stressed out. You are
sleeping better. You are eating more regularly, drinking

(39:36):
more water, and relaxing.
That's reason number one.
And then people are like, that's not possible.
I bring my four kids on vacation. I
am like, I'm like, okay.
The second reason and regardless of having four
kids or whatever, the second reason that this
is a thing is because people will go
to somewhere that is not moldy.
And

(39:57):
they're like, I don't feel perfect,
but I don't feel, like, as awful as
when I'm in
my home.
And that is a really common thing. It's
it's also common. Like, your office is moldy
and your,
home is moldy,
and then you go back and forth between
the two. And then you, like, happen to
go to a hotel room that doesn't have

(40:18):
a moldy HVAC, and you're like, I'm fine.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you said moldy HVAC.
It's like, that's where all the problems trigger
a word? Yeah. I don't have HVAC.
And they're like, you wanna put one in?
I'm like, no.
Don't walk. Get out of my house. Get
out of my house. We live in a
not very hot place for a reason.
Yeah. It's it's so often that we see

(40:39):
mold contamination in HVAC systems. But, like, in
hotel rooms,
I always tell my wife and sidebar, like,
my wife and my kid to stay in
the lobby
and go just I go and I switch
rooms, like, two times. Like, two or three
times. I'm constantly moving
all the time. My husband owns a technology
company. Like, knows
very little about mold until, like, here I
am. Yeah. We walked into a hotel room.

(41:01):
He goes, this is moldy. We need a
new room. There we go. I've traced it.
Converted them. Convert
it. Proud.
Proud. Proud.
Exactly. There's mold on. Right there on that
wall and in this HVAC, I can see
it. I'm like, well, that's moving the race
to the HVAC, but it's one night. It'll
be fun. Like, we'll just move to the
room. Turn the AC off. Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah. No. That's, like, a a really common

(41:24):
common way to know that you've got something
going on.
And it's it the the important thing that
you said towards the end there, it's I
don't feel, like, a % better, but I
don't feel the same.
Right? And there's, like, a there's something different.
Like, I notice a difference when I leave,
and
it's
exactly like you said. Right? Most

(41:46):
buildings are gonna have a problem. So you
go to work. You're sitting in that moldy
building. Your home is supposed to be your
sanctuary where you come in, you unwind,
you get some rest, and your body is
supposed to then detox
your exposures
from throughout
the day. But if you're laying in
bed and your home is a
a, tributor to the toxins in the body,

(42:09):
your body never has a chance to catch
up.
And so you're never really giving yourself a
break, which is why when you go on
vacation, you're like, oh, this is interesting. Totally.
Have that brain fog when I wake up.
Totally.
Right? I'm not, like,
struggling for finding words. Right? All of these
things that are just kinda weird that happen
that we just kinda pass off as I'm

(42:30):
stressed, I'm tired, I've got four kids, all
these things. Yeah. But actually are kinda signs
that we see
in the process of,
of of
exposure.
Totally.
And those are things I think we tell
each other. Like, I'm stressed out. I have
a really hard job. I have four kids.
I have this going. I have that. It's
like, it's all reasons that you could be
stressed out. You could be tired. You could
have brain fog for sure.

(42:52):
Mhmm. But also,
most buildings are moldy. And even if you
are not allergic to mold, you can still
be like, any amount
any person exposed to too much mold is
going to get sick at some point. Oh,
yeah. Like, too much vitamin c. Like, if
you take too much of anything, it's not
good for you. Correct. Right? Correct. And even
though some people eat blue cheese, so I

(43:13):
don't I don't know if you're one of
them, but, like, I I with what I
do, I could've No. I can't possibly. Could
you imagine seeing me in a restaurant eating
blue cheese and then be like, this guy
He's fired.
But, like, you know, it's it's even even
I mean, we all know the the antibiotics
and Oh. You know, things that we don't
we shouldn't take too often and all this.
You know what's really interesting is one of

(43:34):
the molds in this test, the the the
dust test I was talking about earlier, the
the Ermi panel. Mhmm. It's a there's a
penicillin
species. It produces something called a mycophenilic
acid. Mhmm. Mycophenilic
acid is literally used to suppress the immune
system in medicine in high doses
so that they can do organ transplants,
and they can use therapies

(43:56):
for other things to help treat the body.
So
if you're constantly breathing this stuff in and
Yeah. Your body is it's in there, it's
going to not manifest the way that we
think. That's the key with all of this.
It's like Mhmm. Wait a minute. I all
all of a sudden have Hashimoto's.
I have this autoimmune issue. I have this
thyroid problem. Mhmm. Well, let's look at the

(44:18):
environment because
it's it it it triggers in different ways
Mhmm. And it affects all of us completely
different. A %. And if we really start
to think about the stressors and the everyday
life and then add this in it, there's
that straw that breaks the camel's back again.
A %.
Okay. I'm gonna say something that might be
triggering to you. A lot

(44:40):
of people do well, I got my I
I did my mold inspection when I bought
my house. I just did the air test.
I did my mold inspection. I got one
of those petri dishes off Amazon, and it
was fine.
Why is that bad?
I know it's not right. I I love
how you pause, and you're like, oh, how
do I phrase this to make sure I
don't piss them off?

(45:01):
Well off, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. That all off. Let let's
let's start on the petri dish side because
we've talked about this topic a lot. Right?
Living mold versus dead mold. So
it's called viable mold spores and nonviable mold
spores.
If I took that peanut that was roasted
that we talked about and planted in the
ground, it will not grow another peanut bush

(45:23):
or tree or whatever it is that they
grow. She looked up pea yeah. Peanuts grow
in the ground. I looked this up last
night. It's so weird. It's so weird to
me. I know. It's so odd.
So odd.
I thought they were drawing trees, but they
don't. Anyways. They don't. Yeah. The different story.
So,
the it can't grow a plant. Right? So
if you put a petri dish out and
you've got a bunch of old water damage

(45:44):
things that happen in the home and you've
got a bunch of dead mold colonies everywhere,
still can cause the health issues in the
body, but it's just not gonna grow because
it can't.
Right?
So
here's the other side of the thing with
petri dishes as well is that sometimes it
grows and there's no problem.
Because
if you're
walking around outside, you have a dog who's

(46:07):
running around outside,
and they're amongst the wilderness because mold is
a thing. And it the the dog shakes
when he comes inside and a spore lands
on that petri dish. Now you got mold
growing, and you're like, oh my god. Right?
So petri dishes
are very, very old school methodology.
The reason why they're

(46:29):
easy access because they're really cheap.
And so you can go, you can buy
it,
super low end, like, screen tool. I try
and push people as far away from those
as possible because it doesn't really give great
data.
Now when it comes to air testing,
air testing is actually really, really important,
but it's about the application

(46:50):
of the air test. So that means taking
an air test in the center of the
room is not the right way to do
it. Air samples are only supposed to be
collected inside of walls, floors, ceiling cavities, or
small isolated areas
to pinpoint where the source of the contamination
is located.
K?
That's not how home inspectors do it. If

(47:11):
you've ever actually watched your home inspection when
you buy a house, it's not how they
do it. It's not. It's not. So No.
It's fine. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. They
look at it. It's fine. That's what we
call a snapshot in time. K? So if
that home inspector came out, and every hour
on the hour for twenty four hours, they
took an air sample in that exact same
spot, the results would be different every single

(47:31):
hour because air is constantly moving. Right? So
depending on humidity, temperature, time of day, occupancy
of space, it's gonna shift what's in the
air at that time. That
and the radius that it tests
is about an inch to two inches around.
So
what if the problem's inside that wall? How
am I gonna detect it here?

(47:52):
Right? We're not.
So you can't test in the middle of
the room. It's what we call a diagnostic
tool. K. It's a source idea.
So what's supposed to happen is your inspector's
supposed to go through the home and look
around and look for the signs of problems
we talked about before. The water damage issues,
the rusting, the efflorescence, and say, oh, wait
a minute.

(48:13):
There's bubbling on the wall. I need to
take an air sample in this wall cavity
to determine if there's a high enough spore
count that would dictate a problem here.
To understand if there's a potential for a
problem to exist,
you test your dust. Right? And the dust,
you can't hide from things because the spores
go up and eventually settle in the dust.

(48:35):
So it's about checking holistically.
Right?
Just like if you go to a doctor
and they run a blood panel, basic blood
panel, they may see, you're low in iron.
You got low in this. I don't like
what I'm seeing here. I'm gonna do a
different type of test now that's gonna be
more targeted at this to really understand what's
going on in the body.
So it's all about it's about application.

(48:57):
It's just, like, the usage of the test.
And,
unfortunately, sometimes
with a lot of cases, they just they're
they don't know how to use the the
test in the appropriate way with many inspectors.
Okay. I I know we're out of time,
but I have one more really fast question.
I have the hardest time. I'm gonna get
a dust test on a house until the
day that I die to every house that

(49:18):
I ever move into.
However,
I have a lot of friends who are,
like,
jumping around in real estate, like, buying and
selling houses, whatever.
And I have the hardest time
convincing them that they need a dust test.
They're like, but the air test is fine.
It says it's great. And I'm like, no.
But it's not how it works, so they
call their real estate agent.

(49:39):
I swear to god, I've had this conversation
five times in the last
year. Well, my real estate agent said that
that is a test that only the EPA
is supposed to be using, not for houses.
And so I don't need that for my
house because I'm a house, not a company.
And I'm not owned by the government. The
I I swear to god. And I'm like,
no. Please don't do it that way. Please

(50:01):
go get this test. I know for a
fact that you have mold in your HVAC.
You're gonna get that replaced, but you also
wanna know about other things. So when you
get that replaced, then I want you to
do this. And they're like, no. I will
not do it.
How do you explain to someone that you
need a dust test instead of that and
then it's not just a tool for the
EPA to use?
Awesome.
Oh, god. What a great question.
Yeah, really, really good one. So first off,

(50:23):
it was created by the EPA.
It's not a tool for the EPA.
Okay. So you could first just say that.
And second Perfect. It's
the healthy home survey.
It's Okay.
Literally
made to understand if a home is healthy
or not.
It is a research tool created by the

(50:44):
EPA
for homeowners, renters, or building occupants to understand
if there's a potential for a problem to
exist in the home. They surveyed
1,100
homes,
not commercial buildings,
not industrial factories.
No. It was only homes.
And so what they did is when they

(51:05):
said, okay. We need help. I need 1,100
homes.
Can you fill the survey out?
If you think you have mold or have
had water damage in your home since you've
been there, please say yes.
Half of them said yes.
The other half said, I don't know if
there's a problem here or not,
which is how they come up with the

(51:25):
scoring system that's built into the pro into
the, to the test.
So it's literally meant to plot you
on if a mold problem exists in your
home based off the amount of mold species
that are there, It is actually should only
be applied to homes
technically
based off how the tool was created. So
if you're going in to get an Ermi

(51:47):
score,
an index score, that's gonna tell you how
do I compare to the other 1,100 homes
in this survey.
That's why that's there.
Here's the other thing. Real estate agents make
commission.
Correct.
So,
you know, just keep that in mind. Right?
You know, I haven't come across a real
estate agent who hasn't told me something similar

(52:08):
of, well, the air is fine, so everything's
fine, and you're you'll be fine. Right? It's,
just remember who who's giving you the advice
at the end of the day. Mhmm. And
I I'm not
saying that they're doing it in malice. They
just don't have the right information, and there's
skin in the game there. So,
you know, when you look at it,

(52:29):
the way that you're gonna look at the
test is it's a screening tool. And here's
the other thing.
You had this exact experience yourself.
They're always gonna come up with something.
It's not a matter of if it exists
within the home. What we're trying to avoid
are the homes that you dodged a bullet
on.
Right? It's the home that you go through,

(52:51):
and, unfortunately, you have an inspector who
just kinda there to check boxes and get
in and out quickly. Luckily, he had a
good guy. Right? And, like We did have
a great inspector.
Yeah. Love him, but it's still not perfect.
It's still not perfect. And, like,
most of them are referred by real estate
agents, and real estate agents aren't gonna refer
people that are gonna kill deals left and

(53:11):
right. A %.
I
knew this.
Yeah. I don't know why. And I found
one outside of the one my real estate
agent recommended.
Because the one my real estate agent recommended,
like, was busy for two weeks. And I
was like, I don't got two weeks.
Yep. And so I found a different guy.
And now he was will be the only
guy that I use forever. And he's like,
I don't care about real estate agents. I'm

(53:31):
like, I like you, Brian. Yeah. Yeah. Those
are the guys that you wanna work with.
The guys that are saying, I don't get
my business from real estate agents. I I
get my business by marketing to homeowners
and and potential buyers because then they're gonna
have your best interest. Right?
And those are the ones that you really
need to to be focused on working with,
and you just ask some questions. So if

(53:52):
somebody says to you, oh, well, an army
is a research tool, An army is this.
You're right. The answer is yes. It's a
research tool used in a survey called the
Healthy Home Survey.
That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate
that. Yeah. Okay.
After all of this amazing information, I would
love if you told us where you're located.
I know you fly everywhere, but where are
you located? And then how do someone work

(54:14):
with you if they're like, oh my god.
I think this is a problem.
Yeah. So there's there's two ways to find
us. The first one is through the dust
test. So the dusttest.com,
you can go there. You can order that
screening kit that we talked about. So that's
an easy one. The second is we inspect.
And so that's yes weinspect.com.
As you mentioned, we're located throughout The US.
We actually have inspectors that are located

(54:35):
around most major,
most major metropolitan areas, so we can service
most areas within The US.
Mhmm. And then
our our,
company
Instagram is at mold finder, so you can
find us there as well.
We're always posting really great information.
Mhmm. And you can get a lot of
great,
fun tips on how to find secret hidden

(54:58):
mold and all the cool things that we
talked about today.
And I do want to in case we're
gonna do show notes, one thing that we
didn't get to cover but I think is
really, really helpful
is insurance.
And so
I'm gonna send something to you just to,
like, throw in the the notes on, like,
how like, a framework with insurance and, like,

(55:20):
when to and when not to and all
of those things. Understood.
It's a hot topic right now as we're
all wanting to, you know, make sure we're
spending correctly.
But, also,
insurance companies would love nothing more than to
raise your rates or drop you if you
look at them in the wrong way. So
you have to be really intentional on how
you approach them.

(55:40):
That is a really good point. I appreciate
you bringing that up because
you cannot just
remediate your home and submit the bill. Please
don't do that. Please don't do that. Go
well. So,
yeah. Thank you
so much for doing this.
Oh, man. I had so much fun. I
did too. It was great talking to you.

(56:00):
You did. If people
wanna reach out to you, they know where
to find you on Instagram slash your website.
Don't ask me about mold. Please ask him.
Yeah. Please ask me. And I
Yeah. The weird guy that knows a lot
about it. Cam's the weird one who knows
a lot about the inner ear. So it's
okay. We we got our teeth. Things. Exactly.
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

(56:22):
I'll talk to you soon. Bye.
Thanks so much for listening. If you liked
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(56:44):
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