Breaking Limits: The Journey Through Fear and Beyond

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to another episode of growth mode.

(00:01):
I'm Donnie bovine, and I'm here to let a pathtowards conquering the most significant battlefield.
Your mind.
Today, we're privileged to delve into anenlightening conversation with Tyler smoker,
a man who has redefined endurance, who isjourneying through some of the toughest terrains.
Not just outside, but within his own mind together,we'll explore how to climb mountains of your

(00:22):
mindset, how to navigate the shadowy valleys of selfdoubt and how do we merge triumphant and stronger.
So tighten your seatbelts.
As we embark on an expedition that promisesto reshape the way you perceive challenges,
resilience, and most importantly, your own mindset.
Let's do this.
Welcome to growth mode..

Donnie Boivin (00:45):
All right, Tyler, dude, I'm a guy that is a sucker to set traps for myself.
And what I mean by a trap isaccountability is kind of a bitch for me.
You know, sometimes I'm really, really good at it,but sometimes I'm not the strongest at accountability.
So I set these straps, like where I will literallyput out on social media that I will do X by X, or
this will happen and y'all get to experience in myembarrassment if I don't accomplish what I say I can do.

(01:09):
Right?
That's worked for me.
And I tell you that to say that my dumb ass signed up for a ToughMudder this year, and I'm scared to death because I have not
done anything outside of a walking my driveway for the last year.
I haven't ran since I was in the Marine Corps.
How the hell do you have the endurance to do the crapyou're doing, cross freaking mountains and all this?

(01:31):
Crazy shit you're doing.
I'm fucking flabbergasted by it all, but, uh, help me outhere because I really am going to do a Tough Mudder at the
end of this year and I'm scared to death of the damn thing.
That's

Tyler Schmoker (01:41):
awesome.
So one of the biggest things when you start to setthese goals, and I think you've, you've kind of hit
on the first one, and it's the social contract, right?
For accountability.
So you signed up for this thing, you told yourloved ones about it and you probably blasted out on
social media and now people are starting to follow.
Right?
I do some of that for myself as well, where I'll kind ofarticle out the journey and keep people updated on it up to the

(02:09):
point where I'm even giving like tracker information so thatpeople can watch me succeed or fail publicly in some cases.
So, you know, Good on you for setting that social contract.
It's a way to kind of keep the accountabilitystick a little bit closer to you to keep you
going when you have those hard training days.
But then some of the other things too, when people areexploring these big objectives and these things that

(02:32):
are kind of outside of what the normal person does.
A lot of people have the quote unquotemotivation and the inspiration to do it.
We look on social media and we see theinspiration and motivation everywhere.
But what a lot of people lack is the momentum to keepgoing when things get hard, whether you're actually
at the point of execution and you're in the race andyou're, you're thinking in your mind about all these,

(02:56):
um, mental off ramps, where it's just easy to turn onthe blinker and get off as opposed to staying in it.
Cause that's kind of what separates.
High performers from normies to be quite honest with you.
So did I

hear because I can tell you it's that mental head game that you play with yourself, you know I would say
most people have probably been in some sort of situation whereThey've gone beyond further than they thought they could right?
Whether it's a walk or a jog or something physical, whateverelse Um, but to do it to the depths that you're doing it, I mean,

(03:30):
is, is for you, is that like a ridiculous amount of mental workmeditation where you kumbaya on top of a mountainside before
you did all this, you know, uh, what's that mental prep like?

So for me, it's a combination of a couple of things.
There's definitely like a, a holisticwoowoo approach to what I do.
I'm not really a big visualization guy so much.
But I do kind of tend to immerse myself kind of likemethod acting and live my life in a way that I want to
perform when when it's time to be operationally correct.

(04:04):
And that means getting snippets of it every day withwith good habits and accumulating those things over time.
So.
One of the things that I like to dois be very systematic in my planning.
So in your case, you're talking about, all right,I'm going to sign up for this tough mutter, right?
And you post about it on social media.
That's the motivation, inspiration part is Donnie.

(04:24):
You're kicking ass.
You're inspiring me.
You're going to get.
off the couch, you're going to start trainingand you're going to do this tough mutter.
And now I'm going to do these things.
But then after that is the point of momentumwhere a lot of people start to fall off.
Oh, my knee hurts.
I've got this past back injury, all these littleoff ramps that people are just quick to get off of.
And then pretty soon you never hear about it again.

(04:44):
Or you have people that actually get into theevent and you're going to be thinking about it.
When you're on a like a long, long durationand endurance types events, you're going to be
thinking constantly about all these excuses.
All my knee hurts.
Oh, my back hurts.
Oh, I'm out of water.
This that I still have that.
Oh, I'm 46.
Yeah, exactly.

(05:05):
Exactly.
I'm I'm a little younger, but I'm in my 40s as well.
It's like I'm 15 years past my athletic prime.
So it's okay.
I'm still doing most than more 43 yearolds, but a lot of that's bullshit.
Yeah.
Right?
It comes down to being very systematic in your planning.
So after the point of inspiration, motivation.
So the thing is, everybody's got dreams, right?

(05:25):
Of the things that they want to do.
And I feel like the difference between dreams and goals isreally that a dream is something that it's, it's outside of you.
You haven't taken ownership of it.
It's just something that people do and, Oh, itwould be nice to do this or it'd be nice to do that.
But then you assume it as a goal andit's not really clearly defined yet.
But that's when you're taking ownership of that stuff, right?

(05:48):
And you've done that by saying, I want to get in better shape.
I want to do this thing.
So I'm going to sign up for a Tough Mudder.
So you're, you're still kind of in dream phase there,but then you take ownership of it as objective.
You go on to ultra sign up or wherever you go to sign up forthat event, you put down the money and now you have a date.
So at that point, it becomes a goal.

Yeah, that date, that's the scary portion of it all, right?
Because, you know, I can post on social media and then,you know, if I was a jackass, I could hide, right?
And just never talk about it againunless somebody else brings it up.
But now there's a looming date over the top of the damn thing.
Somebody else is going to have myname on a freaking roster, right?
They're expecting me to show up, so I like that pressurebecause now I'm not just letting myself down by not showing up.

(06:34):
I would let them down if I didn't show up.
Right.
They're expecting me to be there and I needthat extra level accountability for me.
So that doesn't help me get to the finish line.
That just helps me get to the starting line.
Right?

Yeah, exactly.
So you've set the social contractto hold yourself accountable, right?
So you, you've taken a dream, you'veput it to an objective, right?
But then from there or goal.
And then from there, you're starting to define your objective.
It's like, okay.
Start point is on this date and end point is at this time.
Here's my goal.
I want to be within this many hours completingthis thing or whatever it is, or, or my

(07:10):
goal is just to finish or whatever it is.
So you start to set the objectives to that inthe business world, we call it KPIs and you
hit target on sales and all this other stuff.
So that's what objectives are.
And that's where a lot of people who have.
Big dreams and they have goals.
They fall off because they never really set definable objectives.
And you talk about it, like from a dev ops space requirements.

(07:32):
It's like, okay, you have this big idea.
You sound cool about it.
Posting on, on social media, but what are the requirements?
It's like, how do you, how do you actually pay the bills?
How do you get to the finish line?
How do you do these things?
So you start developing your list of requirements, right?
And then from there, you're puttingproject management on top of this beast.

(07:53):
Like I do that with all of these differentmountains I've climb these different races that
I've run, all these different things that I do.
It's like I have an idea for this, but then there's a lotof hours I spend where I'm doing digital reconnaissance
on Google Earth or in Gaia and all this other stuff.
I'm figuring out, well, these are thetimes I need to make for checkpoints.
So these are where my training intervals need to be at.

(08:14):
This was what my work rate needs to be.
I, I need to be able to carry this much weight, andthat's during event, and that's not even to include.
I got to get to the airport to get there.
I got to get my flights.
I got to get permits.
If there's permits involved, what kind of food do I need?
What kind of things can I take on an airplanethat I'm going to need when I'm there?
Like bear spray.
Every time I go to Colorado to climb in themountains, it's like, well, I can't go through

(08:37):
TSA with weapons grade bear spray, right?
So I have to figure out where am I going to rent bear sprayso I don't get eaten by a grizzly when I'm out climbing.
So those are all those types of.
things that come into the operational requirementsof achieving your goals and achieving your dreams.
It's where the faint of heart start to falloff because that's where stuff gets hard.

(08:58):
Everyone likes to talk about do hard things, but then whenyou're approached with hard things, a lot of people fall off.
Yeah, a

hundred percent.
Um, and I agree with you that that's theexact moment because it's the unknowns.
It's always the unknowns that get you.
Right?
Like, I'm thinking about a tough mutter.
Nowhere in comparison to what you're doing.
It's insane.
Um, and just hearing you talking about these KPIs and objectives,I'm like, shit, I don't even know what the course looks like.
Like I, I got a brief, you know, idea of what itis now I'm thinking, shit, do I need to go Google

(09:29):
Earth this damn thing and see what, what's coming up?
Because I don't even have a training regiment, right?
I don't even have like, uh, Mark Zolmanoff,who's a buddy of mine who runs a CrossFit gym.
You know, he just did a 24 hour Tough Mudder.
So I should probably reach out to him and say, okay,sign me some sort of training regiment for this.
Cause in my, I mean, I'm just a guy thatlook, okay, that's what I'm going to do.

(09:49):
Cool.
I'm just going to sign up and do the damn thing.
I hadn't even thought about.
What it's going to take to actually getme across the finish line, um, with that.
So, but.
To your point, it's, it's when it does get, whenyou get to those areas of unknown in anything.
It's when confusion happens and overwhelm happensand, and, and you start to really get up in your head

(10:10):
because you're like, fuck, I don't know how to do this.
Where do I find this information?
So for, for you, is it a series of, of like,People you go talk to, is it all Google or YouTube?
I mean, how do you figure out all these unknowns to beable to not completely kill yourself out on these crazy ass

runs?
Yeah, so I have a term and it's, Ididn't make it up, but I like the term.
It's called OBE, overcome by events, right?
And that's when it, things start to get hard.
You start to get injects that things that don'tgo to plan or your training wasn't maybe quite
as adequate or some of your gear failed or.
All these different things that cause people to have thesesnowball freakouts to the point where again, they're turning

(10:51):
on that blinker and they're taking that off ramp to quit.
Right?
So all of that prior planning, and really to answeryour question, I pull from a lot of different mediums.
So I'm using Google earth.
I'm looking at elevation.
I'm comparing that to my relative capacity.
It's like, I know I need to go on Xamount of miles and to meet my goal of.

(11:11):
Doing it in 20 hours or whatever the case may be, I needto figure out what's my relative work rate light because
it's like, so we'll use a simpler, what do you mean?
What do you mean by work?
Right?
So, for example, say I sign up for a marathon.
It's kind of like a baseline, a flat marathon.
It's like, well,

yeah, if a flat marathon is a baseline, just go with it,

but just for the sake of discussion without a lot of different complexities or, or logistics around
like, um, Well, like I use a marathon for an example becauseit's a case where like a lot of the off-ramps are easier.
One of the things I really like about Mar Mountaineering is it'shard to quit because you have to, you have to haul yourself back.
You pull down a mountain, right?
Yeah.
You have to haul yourself back out of there, andso the stakes are higher, but like with a marathon.

(11:59):
You got checkpoints probably every mileand a lot of the well established ones.
You're going to have safety people all over.
And there's plenty of off ramps where Ican text my wife and say, Hey, I quit.
Come get me.
Right.
So there are a lot of those off ramps in, in those types

of situations.
Sneak off the course without nobody seeing you type of thing.
Right,

right, right.
Exactly.
But with that too, I go into a marathon.
It's like, well, I want to run a three and a half hour marathon.
Okay.
But if my training interval six weeks beforemy work rate, my capacity is I'm at six hours.
The math doesn't math on that.
So I think that's where people kind of need tobe in touch with their relative capacity as well.

(12:39):
And I think that every person is capable of a lot.
But you have to set realistic, challenging goals at the sametime, because you don't want folks to get out there and get hurt
or get killed doing something that they had no business doing.
So that kind of leads into the next point.
Then it's milestones, right?
So after you have your objectives.

(13:00):
You're breaking it down.
And again, people like to talk about eating the elephant.
But beyond the anecdotal analogiesabout it, they don't know what to do.
So that's where you just kind of stack on topreally deliberate, systematic project management.
It's like, okay, so now you've got your, you've got yourcourse, you've got your dates, you know, you probably have
some Google Earth to do, you know, the relative distance.

(13:20):
So, you know, that you need to be able to do a certainamount of pace, like in a similar training environment,
pre race to make sure that your capacity is aligned with.
that.
And then you just start breaking down those milestones.
Like you still need to take care of yourlogistics of how do you get to the race?
Where are you going to stay at?
What's your pickup plan?
If you don't make it, what are yoursecondary and tertiary for exfil?

(13:40):
If you need those types of things, right?
And then so you just start breakingthose things down from your requirements.
It's like, okay, I'm ticked off this, the air, theairline ticket is, is booked, you know, I paid for it.
I've got my food plan figured out.
I've got my next of kin notifications, all ofthese different things that you need to do.
You start to break that down into milestonesand that becomes part of your plan.

(14:04):
And that's where you're really ableto start implementing your plan.
Then, like, even leading up to the race training withpeople, you're talking to subject matter experts.
You're looking at Google tutorials.
Maybe you're buying some equipment that'sspecific to this event, like some new shoes.
So maybe you're like doing a technical evaluation.
It's like.
I've got 200 to spend here.
The three shoes that I like, which onesactually meet all of the requirements.

(14:27):
And then you start looking at some ofthose different differentiating factors.
It's like, what are the reviews on these?
Who says they're awesome versus they suck.
What are experts there?
Same.
What are normal end user consumers who are novices in the space?
Like you saying about him?
It's like, yeah, I know that the expertsliked him, but I thought they sucked.
They hurt my heel or whatever.

(14:48):
So those types of things.
And then from there, you start to make those decision points.
So you're really getting systematic and specifichow you're mapping out the logistics for this.
And so, Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Kind of bringing this back full circle, then by addingthat systematic and deliberate approach, all of the OBE or
overcome by events stuff that we were talking about at thekind of at the beginning of this rant, it gets a lot smaller.

(15:13):
And I can tell you that.
Being systematic and then also exposure trainingand doing this stuff for as long as I have in a
lot of different environments and organizations,my OBE is a lot smaller than the average person.
And I know that, right?
So, and, but you have some of thatexperience from the Marine Corps as well.
And maybe even it's, if it's a past life, yourOBE is a lot different than other people's OBE,

(15:38):
but you can still shrink it down even smaller.

Yeah, I know because I'm thinking through all this, you know, if I, if I look at it from a business
perspective, you know, building a business, I don't give a damn.
It's the toughest thing on the damn planet, right?
It's just hard to build a business and andit's because you get into the overwhelm, the
unknown, all the things being thrown at you.
Um, I like the idea of thinking through all the differentmoving parts, then leveraging the experts, uh, and the likes,

(16:07):
all of that will prepare you for everything moving forward.
But I can promise you without a shadow of a doubt,I'd have rang the bell at Navy SEALs hell week.
I don't even know if I would've made it to hell week.
Like if I were to try to do like Navy SEALs hell week,I just know mentally I'm not prepared to go through that
much personal torture, nor would I even sign up for it.

(16:27):
Right?
So I know going into something like a Tough Mudder,I'm going to get stacked up, not to the intensity of
a Hell Week by any stretch of the imagination, but I'mgoing to get stacked up against that level of intensity.
And I don't know that I've been in asituation where it's been that intense before.
So I'm going into that unknown aswell, uh, being prepared for it.

(16:49):
It's a lot like building a business.
There's a shoot ton of unknowns in businessthat you just have to learn the hard way.
Um, you can do a lot of prep and planning,but you're going to get sideswiped by shit
that you just didn't even know was a thing.
And I have a feeling this is going to be thesame way when it comes to the Tough Mudder.
And I know experience is the bestteacher of almost anything, right?
You go through it, you're like, okay, nexttime I won't do that stupid thing again, right?

(17:12):
What L should I be thinking through from a mental gameperspective, should I be looking for all those off
ramps and with the potential things that could pop up?
Does that make them come to light more quickly?
Or does that prepare me for when they might happen?

So I think the biggest thing is when you're, when you're Going in, you're assessing risk.
So let's talk a little bit about doing your pre executionchecklist and you're assessing risk relative to your operation
or your event, because we're kind of at the point in thediscussion where we're talking about implementation now and
execution to put all this logistics and planning into play.

(17:49):
So when you look at risk assessment, there are thingsthat You can't plan for everything and, and Mr.
Murphy and Murphy's law is always going to show up when you,when you least expect him and, and the, the shit is going
to hit the fan and something that you didn't account for,whether it's equipment failure or, you know, you, you ate
bad pizza the night before, whatever, something is goingto happen that, that is going to degrade from your work

(18:14):
rate and your capacity and your ability to, to execute.
So you need to be able to compensate in other areas for that.
So what you do then with your risk assessmentin your implementation phase and pre execution
is you start to determine and probabilities.
What are the higher, higher probability riskthat I'm likely going to face at this event?

(18:34):
Whether it's dehydration, whether I'm exhausted, whetherI get a A twisted ankle, whether there's a swimming phase
and I'm not a strong swimmer or whatever that case is.
So you start to figure out those high probability,um, risks that you, you'll likely encounter
during, during your, your operation, right?
And then from there, among those higher probability,you, you figure out the higher impact or the, or

(18:58):
the higher catastrophe rate type of, of risks.
So maybe there's a high probability that you'll getby a mosquito, but unless you're deathly allergic.
Who cares?
Right?
So don't focus a lot of effort on that.
But if it's I can't swim worth a damn and there'sa mile of swimming and muddy water under barbed
wire and pyro over my head in the tough mudder.

(19:20):
It's like, well, maybe you should start thinkingabout taking some swimming lessons or getting out
into the lake and doing some training before then.
Whatever that is to kind of shore up that gap andto that risk, you're implementing a control measure.
Yeah.
That's going to bring down the probabilityand bring down the severity of that risk.
So if you're systematically doing that on all thesehigher probability and higher severity scenarios, again,

(19:46):
that's how we're shrinking that OBE down to where you'reovercome by events potential gets a lot lower, right?
So what's

interesting, I love this because what's interesting is I've done what I've always done, which I just
signed up for shit and said, okay, I'm going to do that, right?
I haven't done what I need to do, which is actuallystart researching what the hell I signed up.
And start looking for all these things.
I just knew that I needed something, uh, extreme.

(20:15):
Like, signing up for a marathon, thatwasn't going to be enough for me.
It is, I'm like, cool.
You know, it gets to a point where I can just walk that.
You know, and so there was too easy of an out.
Um, I thought, well, I'll just beat the shitout of myself on a massive obstacle course.
That's going to be tough as hell.
Now there's not as many ways for meto back out through this process.

(20:36):
Like even building my businesses and the like, I just said,Oh, I'm going to go do that without putting in all the legwork.
Now I need to actually go start putting in the reallegwork to get this all put together and lined up.
So this, this will be an interesting, and it's going to befun to really document this journey along so people can.
Learn as I continue to do this crazy ass thing and hold

yourself to and hold yourself to the social contract.
Yeah, I know that's

like, but that's why I do it.
So I don't have an out.
You know, um, I want to put myself in a situationwhere, you know, there's egg in my face if I don't.
you know, accomplish this.
I want people to be living vicariously through me inthis journey because that's going to be, I have an
intrinsic, I'm more motivated by fear than I am by fame.

(21:27):
So, you know, the idea that people would seeme fail will push me harder than anything else.
You know, like, you know, I, Ialways play a tape in my head that.
If somebody's waiting for me to throw in thetowel, because if I throw in the towel, it makes
them know they shouldn't even give it a try.
And that thought process just pushes the fuck out of me.

(21:47):
Death before dishonor, baby.
Yeah, 100%.
You know, so I read one of your LinkedIn postswhere, I don't know, it was like 600 miles
maybe in the mountain, freezing, everything.
I think you were medically evac'd out of the fucking thing.
Uh.
I signed up for a tough Mudder, man.

(22:07):
I mean, what goes through somebody's mind to say,I'm gonna go tackle this freaking mountain like this.
I mean, that's just insane to me.

So the thing is, some of it's incremental, right?
So when I started climbing, I started on lesscomplex peaks, and then just started scaling up.
So that's the part that we were talking about before.
For so we both know that that we're in a culture of ofthe David Goggins and the Jocko and the cam Haines and all
these people and just stay hard and they do that stuff.

(22:36):
But the reality is they're doing a lot of planning.
That's not sexy.
Right?
So they're researching stuff.
They're talking to people that are inthe area that they plan to go into.
They're talking to people who've been in these events before.
They're talking to different manufacturersabout the equipment that they've used.
They do a lot of those things.
So again, when you see the, when you see like the,the, either the highlight reel or in a lot of my

(23:00):
cases, it's low light reels where I fail at doingsome of this stuff too, but it's not like I just.
It's not like I just got off the couch and decided.
So I think that's the difference in whereconversations like this are important because
the, the, you know, the 30 seconds stay hard.
Um, short on, on YouTube is cool.
And back to the beginning of our conversation, that'sgreat for the inspiration and the motivation part of it,

(23:24):
but how do you, how do you keep the momentum from therethrough the logistics, through the planning, through
getting really deliberate and systematic about it.
And so.
That's how I've gotten to a point incrementallyover time where some of the stuff that I do, people
in my network are like, well, shit, that's crazy.
It's like, it's not necessarily crazy, but I'veworked up my capacity and work rate and ability

(23:46):
to plan and ability to mitigate risk so that.
I have a lower probability of being overcome byevents in those situations because my physical
chassis is ready and my mindset is ready for it.
And I've done all the necessary planningon the front end to do those things.
And then you're just at the point afterimplementation where you're executing.

(24:07):
Right?
And so that's kind of the other thing I wanted to talk about.
So we talk about now executing and not having all those offramps where you can turn off your Or turn on your blinker
and just quit and get off and come up with an excuse about,you know, your bad work or your bad knee or your bad back.
And you gave it your best.
It's like, yeah, all that's true.
I heard all the time too, but death before dishonor.

(24:27):
It's like, you made a social contract.
So it's like.
there are people that are motivatedand inspired by, you know, right?
So the taller you get into people's awareness,the bigger shadow that you cast, right?
So you need to be very deliberate andabout the, the moves that you make.
We're in a culture where everyone wants to be aninfluencer and positivity and all this other stuff.

(24:51):
But when it comes down to it, man, You got to dothe work and you have to actually set the example.
It doesn't matter how many people follow you because thosepeople come and go and they can't execute on, on game day.
And so that's where you get into the last phase of it.
Then after execution, it's iteration.
And that's where you're bringing things fullcircle as like a life, you're setting your lifetime

(25:14):
goals and, and achieving those lifetime goals.
And you're keeping that momentum because now you're iteratingbecause every mountain that I've climbed, some of the ones
that I haven't summited, you know, it's either a successfuloperation or it was a successful reconnaissance, right?
When I fail, I like to call, I like to call it.
Yeah.
I like to call it successful reconnaissance.
And in your case then for this tough mutter, it's like.

(25:36):
I'm sure you can find people in your broad network who'vebeen through this before, both succeeded and failed.
And they can say, you know, here's the part, this cargo net.
I didn't, I didn't really take that too seriously.
And that's the thing that broke me off.
And so those are the types of things like you can then plan.
It's like, well, I need to make sure that I'm training.
I have work rate to get up a 60 foot cargo net andnot just be able to go 20 miles or whatever it is.

(26:01):
So you're able to do some of that.
Reconnaissance, even though you haven't been in it and feltit before by looking at the Google maps, by looking at the
elevation charts, by talking to people who've been through itbefore, and not only experts in the field who are, who are,
you know, the 10 time Hunter McIntyre, I crush everything guyyou're talking to people who are the 40 something guy who.

(26:24):
Has good baseline fitness from years back, but it's been busyrunning their business and they're trying to get back into it.
So now contextually, you can startto talk to those peers as well.
And it's like, you know, what was your experience with this?
Whether successful or whether they failedand it was a reconnaissance, right?

Yeah, totally.
You know, this all stemmed from, I, I forget,I think it was Tom Bilyeu on one of his impact
theories where he was, and it may have been talkingto Hermosi, and he said, most successful people.
Are as physical as they are ferocious when it comesto business, like there's some sort of like success

(27:05):
is found after extreme, you know, physical activity.
Um, you know, there's been that CEO that came out and said, look,if you don't look like a beast, you won't work in my company.
You know, you hear these type of things.
So that's what started me down the path.
I'm like, okay.
I've got to put something more physical into my world.
Let's go put this theory to the test.
And of course I'm going to go as extreme as I can forme, because I'm stupid like that or fun like that.

(27:29):
However you want to look at it.

And probably both stupid fun,

you know, um, for you, are you along that same mindset of that, that physical
activity, you know, is, is kind of a, a, a keystoneif you will, of, of success or however you want to

measure success.
1, 000, 000 percent and I'm so glad to hear you say that, right?
I've listened to some of your past episodes and I couldsee those inklings in, in, uh, in your comments in there.
So it's like, absolutely.
Because I think it's kind of a, if you look back to like,Maybe the early two thousands or the nineties or whatever.
You had the guys in the suits.

(28:06):
And it's like, I'm in charge of this cause I'm in charge of this.
But it's like, are you really living your life that way?
If you're just sitting up in Morton's everynight and you're closed group, it's like,
you're not really a modern executive in my view.
It's like, cause I don't know a lot of people who are.
Oh, I'm a high performer in this,but my life's a disaster at home.
It doesn't work that way.
It might work that way.
Short term where you're the guy that's not sustainable.

(28:30):
Exactly.
And you start to bring it into your work and the salesguy who is, who is shit hot for 10 years, you know,
all of a sudden their wife leaves them, their kids hatethem, you know, all this other stuff is going on and
then they got a drinking problem and it all falls apart.
That's how it goes.
I'm not going to say everyone does that, but you have your housein order at home and you have your house in order at work and

(28:52):
you have your house in order, even in your physical life and likeyour professionally conducive hobbies, as I like to call them.
I think they absolutely contribute to that.
And I think that there is a level of perception there as well.
And I think the.
Big change in that has really been with social media, right?
To where you have executives now who it's not evenconsidered a something you should do if you're

(29:17):
an executive or a thought leader in an industry.
If you are not transparent with that throughsocial media, then, then you're letting your
professional community down and not doing that.
So if you're going to show up, then I'm not going to show up andsay, well, you know, I walked around the block and I feel good.
It's like, no, it's like if I'm supposed to be at the leadingedge of my industry and influencing people to do better.

(29:42):
It's like, I want to be at the leadingedge of all, all aspects of that.
I want to be solving the biggest business problems.
I want to be working for the best companies and I want tobe doing the biggest shit when I'm outside of work as well.
So then when it comes time for those decision points on.
Who's going to be the next CEO ofthis or CEO of that or whatever.

(30:03):
It's like, it's not even a question I've already done the work.
And if you're secure enough leader, you're going tobring me on and we're going to crush it together.
That's how I feel about it.
So absolutely.
To be an executive, uh, we use the term in the.
In the army and I, and I'm sure you hadsomething similar in the Marine Corps as well.
It's called the total soldier conceptwhere you had to be technically tactically.

(30:26):
And then as an executive, I add thisone on strategically proficient.
You have to have those three things.
It's like, well, I'm a great operator.
I'm a great door kicker.
But if you can't put an operational plan together tolead a thousand people, are you really going to be a COO?
It doesn't matter if you went to ranger school or sealschool, you need to still put those things together.
Right?
So.

(30:46):
You're never done developing that to bring that, that holistic,tactical, technical, and strategic capability together.
And that, and that was, that's what makesa truly rounded executive in my view.

I like it.
I like it a lot.
I like the, the add on to the strategic as well, because Idon't, as I continue to watch these people, they're doing some
of the things that I want, like, I'd love to have a podcast,the size of impact theory and, you know, Hermosi shows and
like, and I know it's a long game and I got some work to do.
But that's why I bring people on to coach me on theshow because I know it sets me apart from almost every
other podcast on the fucking planet, that's why I do it.

(31:21):
Absolutely.
Right?
So, but what's fascinating to me about a lot ofthese guys that I'm following, the Jesse Itlers,
the Tom Bilyeus, these guys, Tom's getting a littletoo relational on me right now with his content.
I have a great relationship with my wife.
I don't need all the stuff you're giving me.
Go back to business, Tom.
I hope he hears that.
Bye.
Um, but you look at these guys like Tom and Jesse andGoggins and all these guys, they're not big dudes, right?

(31:46):
They're not your freaking meatheads.
I grew up, you know, in a world of, you know, Mr.
Olympia and Schwarzenegger and, you know, Stallone and, you know,and so where you had to be this beast of a person and now there's
a massive shift from this beast of a dude to a healthy person.

(32:06):
Which is a completely different shit because I can even go backand look at like Stallone and Schwarzenegger whenever coming up.
I mean Schwarzenegger still smoking a bigass stogie, you know drinking like he drinks.
Stallone's the same damn way You know, they were bigthey weren't necessarily healthy I don't want to be
judging on them, but that's my perception of it, right?
Right.
I love this idea of the the it's more about health Beingfit, but not being this gargantuan beast of a person.

(32:35):
Like, we don't have to all look like DwayneThe Rock Johnson, who looks fucking amazing.
But, you know, uh, I really like the more emphasison longevity, life, and those things, because
that has never been a focus in my 46 years.
I mean, I I'm giving me my rum, give me my freaking,you know, French fries and hamburgers, right?
That's the world I want, but I know that to get to the levelI need to get to that, that not only do I gotta get physically

(33:01):
better in shape and the likes, but I gotta start thinking aboutmy overall health because as Zig Ziglar said, one of my favorite
phrases of all times, if we had a million dollar freakingracehorse, we would not be filling that million dollar race
horse with rum, beers, cigarettes, you know, cigars and the like.
So it's.
All of this is getting me to think more about a completepackage, if you will, versus just focusing on this one iteration.

(33:27):
So,

yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you become an executive Samurai instead of theold executives that do as I say, not as I do, because
in my 20, 30, 40 years of experience, it's like youlive it and you live it in all aspects of your life.
And I liked that.
You're kind of talking about the distinctionbetween, uh, like our favorite eighties military.
Movie action heroes.

(33:49):
And, you know, you have Stallone and, uh, or youhave, uh, Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers do the,
where they'd shake hands and they've got the 20inch pipes and all of that, and, and it's great.
But the problem is when they're 60, they probably looklike hell and they've probably got some heart issues.
And so there's some of those other things,but again, Those guys are wonderful.
Not a ding on them.

(34:09):
And I was totally into that when I was a kid.
It's like, Oh, those guys are awesome.
They're superheroes.
But I think it's more just a matter of it's not good or bad.
It's just.
As our society progresses, we get smarter to whattruly healthy is and what truly strong means.
So it's not a matter of what was done past generations was bad.
It's just, we're a little bit hipper to theprogram now of, of what truly healthy means.

(34:32):
And, and, you know, you were talking a little aboutit, people aren't as big and bowed up anymore.
It's like, I'm sure you've seen this too, especiallysince you've signed up for a Tough Mudder that, you know,
Endurance is kind of like the new thing for executives,and I don't think it's going to weigh like I, you know,
and since being on linked in more and starting to establisha presence, I'm meeting more and more people from my peer

(34:55):
group professionally that are at least starting that journey.
And then some of them who are further along it.
So they're out doing endurance stuff, too.
They're out doing climbs.
They're doing runs.
They're doing all this other stuff to the pointwhere ultra marathons are the new marathon.
I remember being Being an eighties kid, and you probablyremember this too, you probably didn't know anyone
that ran a marathon, and you, and you may not haveeven known anyone who knew anyone who ran a marathon.

(35:21):
And there were all these theories about womenshouldn't run a marathon because they won't be
able to have kids after they run a marathon.
And you know, if you run a marathon, it takes threeyears off your life and it takes six months to recover.
A lot of that's bullshit and we know it now.
I ran a marathon of my first marathon at 38 years old.
I was a sub four hour guy, so notsuper fast, but a respectable time.

(35:45):
I was out running three days later, right?
It's like, this isn't that big of a deal.
There's incremental steps to get to that point.
But I think that.
Our generation now, between the focus on fitnessand physicality, and then also we have so much more
information that's available to us through all thesedifferent media channels, we're able to absorb stuff.

(36:08):
So we're truly getting closer to being likereal superheroes, because there are all of these
sources of information we have to look out to.
Um, there are all these people that we can go to forlike reconnaissance information that we can apply.
And we have information at ourdisposable and at, or at our disposal.
And at that point, we just need to put the effort on top of it.

(36:29):
All the tools are there, but are you going to go,are you going to sharpen your sword and are you going
to go into battle or are you going to talk about it?
Yeah,

sure.
And I think it's really important to hearthat we also, because there's, you go read
Goggins books, and I'm not a big fan of Goggin.
I just don't like his, some of his personalbeliefs that just grate at my core.
But, um, uh, when you read something like that, you're like,dude, I'm never going to go run a hundred miles, right?
That's just never going to be a thing.
I'm not, they're not, they're not even going toattempt to pretend that I'd sign up for that.

(36:58):
So there's, so I have to be careful that I don't put myself ina comparison game of, um, Look, I'm not David Goggins, right?
I'm not going to run a hundred miles because inan unintentional attempt at that comparison will
be the exact thing that keeps me from starting.
And this is the reason to have all of these, you know, particulartraps and things I got to do for myself to get me, get me moving.

(37:22):
Um, you know, because I think even people reading your storyand the things that you've pulled off or even attempted
to pull off in my head of like, there's no way in hellI would even attempt that I didn't take into account.
the all the other mountains, right?
All the other freaking things you've done prior to.
We don't get to see the training and practice.

(37:44):
So I just want to, you know, a lot of people that are hearingthis is you got to remember that Even if you go look at David
Goggins, that dude started as a pudgy high school kid, right?
You know, that, that's transformed himself into this beast.
Mm hmm.
What made you at 38 years old to say,fuck it, I'm gonna go run a marathon?

So it's an interesting story.
And actually the marathon kind of came shortly after,um, I climb my first mountain of significance, right?
So we were in, I was in a training session.
I was still in the army reserve,not quite retired yet at the time.
And it's kind of the army's first attemptat like, um, performance mindset training.

(38:27):
It was okay and good on them for making the attempt.
And I'm sure it's gotten even better since I've, I've left theservice and retired, but it's called master resiliency training.
And one of the sessions that we had during thisis me A lot of my boys are sitting in there and
they're asking us, well, what's, what's your dream?
And I think that was the question specifically.
And one of my friends said, what's your dream?

(38:49):
And he said, well, my dream is to climb a mountain someday.
And another friend said, I'm going to run a marathon.
And I don't remember what I said.
Right.
Um.
But I went away from that training period and wentback home to my, you know, full time job or whatever.
And I was thinking about, I'm like, this ispreposterous because it felt to me like it

(39:09):
was the thing is, and I love this dude, right?
It's like, this is the thing that'sgoing to be a well, someday I'll do it.
Could have should have would have.
But we talked about before dreams are kindof outside of us until we make them ours.
With a goal.
So I basically started doing the research.
I didn't know anything about climbing mountain.
So I find a mountain that's tall, but not terribly technical.
So we could meet the requirements for it withfitness without a bunch of special gear and

(39:32):
about without a bunch of knowledge or whatever.
So I ended up finding this peak and it was the2nd tallest peak in the contiguous US, which
happens to not be terribly, terribly technical.
But it's quite tall, so you haveto be trained up and ready for it.
So I started breaking it out.
I figured out all the logistics for it.
Then I presented this plan to thatguy and a couple of other friends.

(39:52):
We ended up going out and doing it.
I never mentioned the set or the session that we'd had.
And then after, and we ended up summiting it, um,it was slow, but we were steady and we got to the
top high fives, pictures, all that good stuff.
And then we were eating a burrito,getting ready to, to leave town.
And, and this guy, he goes, you know, it'salways been a dream of mine to climb a mountain.

(40:15):
I said, yeah, no shit.
That's why we're here.
And it hit him.
Right.
And so that guy has since been climbing to me.
He hasn't gotten quite as crazy about it asI have, but he's been climbing with me since.
And I felt like it hit him like a ton of bricks.
It's like, Holy shit, we actually just made this happen, right?
And he's a guy, he's a business owner who makes things happen.

(40:37):
And for me, there was a feeling of satisfaction of that too.
It's like I took something from my community andsomeone who needed something and I operationalized it.
And that's before I was posting crapall over LinkedIn or anything like that.
So then you start to think aboutthat impact you can have on people.
And then from there.
I just started climbing more and moreand more bigger, more challenging peaks.

(41:00):
Then I started telling my story about it on social mediaand people started sending me DM saying, Hey, I just
ran a 5k because I see this stuff that you're doing.
It really inspired me.
Or I started, I planted a garden cause I want to eat healthier.
And, and can you give me some tips oncomposting and all this other stuff?
It's like, so maybe I'm not setting the business world on fire.

(41:21):
But I know that I'm starting to have an impact withpeople, and it's like, and that's pretty powerful stuff.
And then once you have that, you kind of havethat community and social responsibility.
Plus, you have some capacity and skill setsto do those things and set the example.
Then you have the responsibility.
Everyone wants to influence for the fame, but.
The ability to influence is the responsibility toinfluence and the responsibility to do it in a way

(41:47):
that's effective and also beneficial to your community.

Love this dude.
Um, I, I think you have a hell of an opportunity infront of you that you may or may not see, but as I
heard you speak, you said a phrase that I'm like,God damn, he needs to market the shit out of that.
You said you operationalized, you know, with it orthat out, you need to consider writing a book on it.
You know, or something and making that some sortof platform because that's what a lot of us need.

(42:14):
Because like, I'm thinking through this Tough Mudder, right?
You know, and I'm thinking, God, Ididn't think about half of that shit.
Like, I'm just like, I'm going to showup and do try and do a Tough Mudder.
You know, I think we talked

today,

but that's just my, my mentality.
Cause I, I, I, you don't know what you don't know.
Right.
And, and I think if you've got a way thatmakes sense in your head to wrap it around
and say, all right, you want to go do this.
This is how you operational it, you know,this is how you put it to that's a, that's a
serious thing that I think a lot of people have.

(42:47):
So I'm going to challenge you to really thinkabout, should that be an additional platform?
And I get it, I see all the con and I think it was a compostingthing was the first thing I ever commented on your shit on there.
Cause I have a full working

literally, literally my shit,

literally shit.
Right, right, right.
I'm like, this dude went from the army, went full fucking hippie.
Let's figure this guy out.
Right.
Um, Which, which is really, really, really cool because,you know, we do a lot of homesteading ourselves.
Not to the level that you're doing up there, but we, we enjoy it.
But I, I, as I'm thinking through all the things thatI'm going to start doing and start, you know, pushing

(43:21):
myself more physically and the likes, I think that'sgoing to be a huge contribution to my overall success.
You know, having a framework of thisis how you should prepare for this.
I think would be a huge thing for me aloneand I'm sure others would lean in on it.
Um, because guys like me, I just don't think that way.
I'm not a systems guy.

(43:42):
I'm not a process guy.
I'm a, there's the hill, take the fucking hill guy, right?
Like my coaches are on a regular basis.
They're like, Donnie, I'm going to tell you this.
Don't take any action.
I just want to tell you this is somethingwe're going to do here in the future.
Don't start, don't take any action.
Because if you tell me, I'm just going to go.
That's just how you're

already caught.
You're already cocking the machinegun and you're rocking and rolling.

A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Right?
So we need guys like you in our life to be able to go.
Okay.
All right.
Hold on before we just charge the fucking hill.
Let's think through this.
And you guys drive me fucking bonkers becauseI think you're slowing down the process.
But I also know that slowing down the processspeeds up the fucking ultimate process.
Right.
So, so I really think you should try and put something togetherlike that, some sort of framework that we could follow.

(44:26):
I'm gonna take

that to heart, man.
I really will.

So, because I, I just know it'll be beneficial for me.
And I, and I guarantee that as people listen tothis, when it, when it comes out, you're gonna
get a lot of feedback and in, in that regard.
'cause we literally just don't think that way, so, right.
Um.
I know you're stupid active on LinkedIn, or at leastyou seem to be because I see you pop up all the
time now because like, dude, LinkedIn this year.

(44:49):
I'm like, this is my platform.
I'm going all the fucking on the damn thing.
Right?
In 23, I just went nuts on there.
Yeah.
So how do people get in touch with you?
How do they reach out?
How do they find

you?
So and I'll just put out the warning to peoplewho decide they want to connect with me.
It's Probably equal parts, active and stupid.
So grain of salt, if you want to connectwith me, but so just have a little grace.
I kind of changed subjects and move around a little bit, butyou start to see the method to the madness after a while.
But the main platform for me is LinkedIn as well.

(45:18):
And it just kind of came in as a natural progression to me.
You can also find me on Instagram that.
Uh, excuse me, on Instagram at cover ground, closedistance, all underscores between every word.
I'm not super active on there.
I need to diversify a little bit more.
And I've kind of been, I've been kicking aroundthe idea of, of delving into the YouTube space.

(45:38):
I'm not quite there, but I think that's somethingI need to kind of fix as an objective for myself.
But really the main place is, is LinkedIn.
I'm pretty easy to find, and I'm absolutelyopen to connect with folks who are interested in
some of the same stuff that I'm interested in.

Yeah.
So guys, if you follow me on LinkedIn,you know, I post about goats and stuff.
This dude's posting compost and freakinglike hippie dippie land around his house.
It's pretty fucking cool.
Uh, and I, you know, I make fun of the hippies all daylong, but they're the assholes that are going to save this
damn planet while the rest of us destroy the damn thing.
So, so.
Well, guys, thanks so much for hanging out with us.

(46:14):
Um, if you're still here with us, do me afavor, take a screenshot, wherever you're
listening to this thing, tag me and Tyler in it.
If we see it, we'll jump on, we'llcomment, we'll engage, we'll show you love.
But you sharing those screenshots lets us know that this isthe type of content you want to continue to do, to put out.
You want me to continue to bring on more peoplethat can coach me through a lot of this stuff.
And if there's particular topics, you'd like to seesomebody coach me through just to watch the monkey, send

(46:37):
me those DMS too, because I'll take those challenges ontoo, because there's a lot of shit that I need to learn.
So, uh, I'm, I'm willing to take it on, but as always guys,Tyler, thanks for hanging out, brother, the rest of you guys.
Love you.
Meet it.
See you.
Bye.

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