January 12, 2023 • 23 mins
Core values can be more than words on your business profile.
We pick Tomas Keenan’s brain about his take on the impacts your core values can have on your business. Will a few words on your business profile make you sink or swim?
Links
- Champions 90 https://growth-mode.captivate.fm/champ90
- Website - https://successchampionnetworking.com/
- YouTube Video - https://www.youtube.com/c/GrowthMode
- Blog - https://successchampionnetworking.com/blog/
- Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuccessChampion
Mentioned in this episode:
Success Champion Networking
Success Champion Networking isn't for the beginning networker. Success Champion Networking is for business people that understand building successful relationships is a two-way street requiring commitment from both people involved. Stop wasting time networking with people that don't understand how to leverage their network to generate quality referrals for you. If you are ready to network with business people that are tired of doing all the heavy lifting and want to build real partnerships that generate high-revenue referrals visit one of our Chapters today. https://successchampionnetworking.com/
Success Champions Networking
If you want to grow and scale your business you need to be getting into great conversations with other business owners that can help you take your business to the next level. Joining an online business peer group like Success Champions provides access to a select pool of successful business people from around the world, each having a well-established network who trust them, who want to introduce you to people that can help you build the business of your dreams. So once you get to know your fellow members and they’ve gotten to know you along with your services and ethics, the conversations you get into will multiply!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin Snow (00:15):
Hey, so I'm really excited for our next guest Thomas Keenan.
I found him on Instagram of allplaces, and I started following his
stuff and as the introvert processdriven guy, he was saying things,
I'm like, he's speaking my language.
I'm hearing stuff that sounds like me.
And I was immediately drawn in.
So I went out and got his book.
Unfuck Your Business.
(00:35):
If you haven't read it,we'll find it on Amazon.
It's awesome.
And I read it in like a.
And there was some really cool stuff.
So I'm excited to have you on and beable to, pick your brain on that whole
core values piece and how companiesare doing it wrong and how they can
do it, so welcome to growth mode.
Thomas Keenan (00:49):
Yeah.
Nice guys.
I appreciate coming in here.
And Kevin, we were joking before,this is actually the first time we're
having a face-to-face or we'll call ittechnology, the technology interaction
versus just chatting on Instagram.
So it's nice to meet both of you guys.
Kevin Snow (01:03):
So I wanna start off and I wanna start off with this question.
How do businesses and how dobusiness owners mess up core values?
Because everyone here is, yougotta have your core values.
You gotta make your list.
Yeah.
How are they screwing it up?
Thomas Keenan (01:16):
Number one, they don't have them.
Right?
That's the obvious.
But here's where I findthe biggest mess up.
And it's funny, I find the samecorrelation with those who become.
It's, we go ahead.
We do all this work to getclear on the core values.
We get clear.
We go and we write the book, and thenafterwards we don't do anything with it.
So we did the work, we got theexecutive team together, got the
(01:37):
founders together, whoever may be,we got clarity on the core values.
Now we're gonna throw 'em up on thewall and we're just gonna assume
that everyone's gonna go and liveby these values moving forward.
Donnie Boivin (01:47):
And that's my biggest frustration with core values as a whole.
And it's this whole idea that you'regonna spend time, make up some
bullshit words that have no meaning.
Fucking value.
Throwing 'em up in the words andeverybody's cool, core values are done.
Yeah.
This is why for years I've stayed awayfrom core values as a whole because
they've always been taught that way.
. And so how does somebody.
(02:08):
Put 'em one to where they actuallyhave some fucking meaning behind them.
Yeah.
And then two, like the authors that putthe books out and don't do a fucking thing
with them how does somebody implementthose core values so people actually
can live them throughout their company?
Yeah.
I know how we did it, but I'mcurious how you come from.
Sure.
Thomas Keenan (02:23):
There's a hundred different ways to get clarity
on your core values right there.
I cover away my book.
My book was written in 2019, actuallywritten in 2018 and launched in 20.
In that window, I've got more clarityon how to become more efficient at it.
So I've got a streamlined way of doing it.
And one of the mistakes I've made in thepast is actually having too many values,
and I'll get into that in a minute.
(02:43):
But basically start asking yourselfquestions like, what is it that I
want this business to provide me?
What is it that I wantthis business to provide?
The universe?
What is this business that Iwant to provide to the customers?
And what is it that I wannaprovide, say so to my team members?
Start asking yourself thosekind of questions, right?
Go Google a list of potential wordsyou can use as core values and
(03:04):
start putting something together.
And then that list isin my book, by the way.
Figure out a baseline of what these are.
Give me your top three of each of.
And now look back over that listand say, okay, you know what?
This is the top one that aligns with me.
This one really aligns with meand this one aligns with me.
Get that value, which is typicallya verb, and now start to go and
create a statement around it.
Tell me in your own words whythat's important to you and
(03:25):
the success of your company.
Why is that important to youand the overall success and
growth of your team members?
And this is just an exercisethat we've gotta work through.
It doesn't happen overnight.
It's gonna take a little bit of effort,energy, and work to get into it, but
if done correctly, we get clarity.
And now it's time to transition andimplement this into the company,
the culture, the team, right?
And this is where I, like Isaid earlier, this is where
(03:47):
most people are screwing it up.
I've had a couple different companiesmyself, where we've rolled this out.
I've helped roll this out intoanother larger organization that I
was part of up until very recently.
And the game changer thathappens is incredible, but
you've got to be ridiculously.
Redundant and consistentwith delivering the message.
Yeah, there is no way, for sure.
(04:08):
Couple things I wanna unpack in there.
Donnie Boivin (04:09):
First one being that I, I respected hell out of,
I wrote a book in 2018, put it outin 2019 and I've had more clarity.
I know that exact fucking thing.
hell, I wrote a book calledEndless Stream Referrals.
Now I barely even talk about referralsand focus more on introductions.
So I respect the hell outof that, cuz I know that.
The redundancy man is freaking huge intrying to convey any message that you
(04:31):
want people to wrap their head around.
We don't call 'em values, wecall 'em our champions codes.
. And one of the things that we came upwith when we were writing our codes
was, those sayings, those statements,they gotta evoke emotion, right?
They can't be just word.
If you don't feel it, yeah.
Then it's not a thing.
. And, one of our codes we putout there is Don't Be a Dick.
And that was written for me becauseI know how I show up sometimes
(04:53):
and my ego gets in a fucking way.
And I gotta remember the Tony, the Down.
But it was also written forKevin because he should never
be a customer service guy ever.
fucking, no patience whatsoever.
Kevin Snow (05:03):
So I'm getting better . I am acknowledging now when people email
in and I'm replying, I am acknowledginghow they feel and they're stressed
before I start asking questions.
So I'm working on that.
Thomas Keenan (05:16):
Thank you very much.
Donnie Boivin (05:17):
Now in between the.
The redundancy, for us, we had tosay it in front of a ton of meetings.
We, every time we did sessions,we're constantly bringing
up start meetings and stuff.
, what are other ways that we shouldbe sharing these to get people to
really lean into what we're tryingto accomplish within our, yeah,
Thomas Keenan (05:34):
it's important that this is an internal and
external communication, right?
Start, start changing your messagingand your marketing and the way that you
Donnie Boivin (05:43):
That's a great point, dude.
I don't think we are puttingout our codes outward.
Public facing enough.
Yeah.
mean, It's on a website, but we're nottalking about 'em enough out front.
No
Thomas Keenan (05:51):
talk.
So I love telling stories, right?
Cause facts tell, story sell, right?
So if we can tell a story of how we helpeda client or a team member, See, based
upon living out a core value or one ofour codes, we're giving out the message.
We're telling people what itis that we believe in, right?
We're telling people how we had awin, either internally or externally.
(06:12):
And if you guys know anything aboutmarketing, which I firmly believe you do,
good marketing is gonna do two things.
It's going to attract the right people toyour Audi, as far as your audience is also
gonna repel the people who don't belong.
So when you actually go out there andactivate and start talking about your
code and your core values that youbelieve in, you're gonna start bringing
the right people to you and to the point.
(06:34):
Where if it's done well enough,you can also start leveraging
social media, in my opinion, right?
To attract people to your team.
So now when it's oh shit, I gotta gofind a badass person to do X, Y, Z role.
Now we've put out enough content overtime so people really understand what
it is that we believe in and how weoperate, and there's gonna be an audience
(06:54):
of people who are just there watching.
They're sitting on the sidelineswatching us do what we do, and
they're gonna wanna come work for us.
When we put that offer out there,
Kevin Snow (07:01):
I love the whole concept of that you talked about in your book
about your quarterly meetings and Ithink the cool thing with CO or values
is if you do them correctly, they're thebasis for culture in the organization.
Yep.
But most companies will slap it upon the wall and then, and that's it.
And it doesn't become the basisfor anything that happens in their.
(07:23):
I loved how you do the quarterlymeetings and then for each of the
values you highlight someone who.
Who live that value.
And exhibited it outwardlywithin the company.
And you give them the kudos for that.
And then adding in thatnext step of start,
Donnie Boivin (07:38):
I gotta imagine.
Hold on.
I gotta imagine in there though, theygotta be fucking real and genuine, right?
, this has gotta be like areal fucking story that.
Yeah, totally embodies that,that code or that value.
Thomas Keenan (07:49):
A hundred percent.
Donnie Boivin (07:49):
That's really cool.
Kevin Snow (07:50):
Yeah, and it's a cool way to recognize, cuz you, everyone's used to
getting the recognition for performanceand production and for numbers and, I
did and for Thomas, this was at your,your in installation company, every was
like, I got so many systems installedand I did all that type of stuff.
But getting getting recogniz.
For the more intangible things.
And have, being able to be recognizedfor the impact you had on people
(08:14):
in the company is a completelydifferent type of recognition.
Oh, for sure.
And I think it goes way deeper forthat person and makes them feel way
more appreciated than just saying, Hey,great you sold 15 systems this month.
Yep.
Yep.
The other thing I loved in thosemeetings that you did that Donnie
and I are gonna be talking about whenwe do our planning meeting here in a
few weeks is the start, stop, keep.
(08:35):
, can you share about that?
Cause I think, I thought that was genius.
I literally got a highlighter andstarted highlighting stuff in the book.
When it, when the, when I hit that.
Thomas Keenan (08:44):
It's real similar to a SWOT analysis, strengths,
weaknesses, opportunities, threats.
It's worded a bit different, right?
And we used to do these at our quarterliesand basically we would go and get these
giant postages, the real big ones,like three feet by four feet deal.
Go to Staples and gograb one of those things.
And they got the, they're justbig postages, big stickers.
Stick 'em on the wall.
And I would never do it causeI have horrible handwriting.
(09:04):
But I get someone on the team to bedescribed for the day, like everything
that comes out and we add to thislist, just write it here, and we're
gonna document what's going on.
And we would put a bigtitle on top of them.
One was start, one wasstop, one was Keith.
And the question, we'd go aroundthe room and we'd ask for real
feedback from the entire team.
What do we need to start doing in orderto get closer to achieving our goal?
(09:26):
And the whole team knows what the goal is.
It's part of building theculture of the company, right?
This is the big goal that we'reactive for this year, for this
month, whatever it may be.
What do we need to start doingthat we're not currently doing now?
That's gonna help us get to that goal.
What do we need to stop doing?
Because oftentimes we get nailed withwhat I call busyness, not business.
There's all this little fluff andbullshit that we think is so important,
(09:46):
but ultimately, you guys know at thispoint in time, in your careers, there's
a lot of bullshit out there thatmakes absolutely no difference to the
outcome in your company whatsoever.
So what is it?
Let's be open, let's have open directconversation, communication around here.
Let's document it.
Let's start scratching that shit off thelist, and then we're gonna figure out how
do we stop doing that shit completely?
How do we eliminate it from whatwe're doing each and every day?
(10:07):
Because it's wasting time,it's inefficient, it's costing
money whole nine yards.
Kevin Snow (10:10):
And what was interesting, before we get into the key part Yeah.
In the book you gave the.
The example you gave was youremployees were saying, we need to
stop having this guy as a client.
, we need to get rid of thiscustomer because here's how
he's fucking up our days.
Yep.
And I thought that was reallypowerful that they even had the.
The confidence dispute to beable to make that comment.
(10:33):
, because most clientsare gonna be, say Yeah.
Or most employees aren't gonnacall and say, Hey, Donnie, Kevin,
we need to fire this person.
Yeah.
We need to fire this
Thomas Keenan (10:40):
client.
That goes back to core values, right?
One of the core values in, in anycompany that I own and will own
in the future is communication.
right?
There's open direct communication fromeveryone that's internal and external,
and we're proactive with it as well.
So if something's rubbing yourass the wrong way, do me a favor.
I don't want to deal with thiswhen you blow up because you
can't handle your shit one day.
(11:01):
I wanna know about it now so wecan go ahead and fix it early.
So when you empower your people to comein and have that open, direct conversation
with you, and you're not gonna bite theirhead off when they do tell you something
that you may not want to hear that day.
Which is part of it, you,
That's almost all.
Yeah.
It's that moment when they cometo you and say, Hey, dude, this
shit is pissing me to fuck off.
(11:21):
You've got to fuckingstand on your damn heels.
And go walk me through it, brother.
Tell me what it is.
Because the minute you flip and youdon't honor your own core values.
Yep.
It's a lose culture.
Yep.
That's the biggest thing with core values.
They cannot be a wishlist.
They have to be whatyou're actually living.
Donnie Boivin (11:38):
Right.
. Yeah.
No, I love it.
Kevin Snow (11:43):
This whole before Donnie you, oh, you go into your next question.
Let's talk about keep
Thomas Keenan (11:48):
the third step.
So same deal, right?
What do we need to keep doing inorder for us to achieve the goals
that we've set forward, right?
Because there's a couple of thingsthat we got going on right now
that are working really well.
And we don't wanna stop doing them.
So if we're gonna keepthem cool, let's keep them.
Or how do we optimize what we'recurrently doing here to make it better?
Donnie Boivin (12:08):
That's a really smart way of looking at business, though.
I hate the fact that youbrought this guy to the table.
Kevin, this sucks . Iain't learning shit today.
See?
Oh
Kevin Snow (12:16):
told you he talks my language.
I'm like, oh, i, and.
Donnie Boivin (12:20):
Yeah, I'm not the process guy.
I don't follow systems.
I fucking hate 'em.
They're, there's a necessityyou can't scale without 'em.
. We're constantly buildingand putting 'em in there.
So he tells me he's bringing aguy who's talking about process
systems and all this stuff.
I'm expecting the fuckingbookworm that, is all this
operationally focused type shit.
And I'm like, God, how the fuck amI gonna fit in this conversation?
(12:42):
. So props toia for being a moretype A personality that's focused
on getting culture and shit right?
Cause you don't always see that out there.
Yeah.
In the marketplace a lot of timesyou get these kind of alpha dog,
mentalities and they're like, fuckyou, let's just dominate the world.
You get the bro marketers andthat kind of thing out there.
So yeah.
propps brother forshowing up How you show.
Thomas Keenan (13:02):
Thanks.
Appreciate that.
Kevin Snow (13:03):
I thought that was really interesting as I dug dove into that
whole integrator, visionary world.
, no I, Donnie and I have always beenin the extrovert, introvert world and
looking at stuff from that viewpoint,so I just assumed that the visionary
integrator was the same thing.
You had your extrovert, your introvert,the integrator is the introvert.
I'm like, oh, sweet.
One of me.
But then I started researchingand I'm like, oh, the
(13:24):
integrator's actually normally an.
And that, which really surprised me.
I'm like crap, now where the fuckdo I fit ? Because I literally
thought I had found my tribe.
And I'm like, oh God damn it.
So I thought that was really interestingbecause a lot of the stuff you talk
about is the things that we thrive on.
, but our, we just aren't asoutspoken about it all the time.
Thomas Keenan (13:44):
Yep.
Got it.
Yeah, man.
I have the unique ability becausein my last company, my installation
company, which I talk heavily aboutin the book, there was nobody else
sitting in that visionary seat.
So I'm naturally wiredas an integrator, right?
Someone who's wants to buildthe systems and processes
and put the backend together.
And a lot of that has to do withmy former career as a customer.
(14:06):
Car audio installer isliterally, that's what we did.
We integrated aftermarketelectronics into a factory vehicle.
So it rewired my brain at a youngage to start thinking process wise.
But with my install company, there wasnobody with the ability to fill the
visionary seat and somebody had to stepup to the plate and fill it, right?
So even though I'm more naturally anintegrator, I had to step into that
(14:29):
role and fulfill it as best as I could.
Was it perfect?
No, it wasn't.
But it enabled me tostrengthen my visionary tend.
As well as keep my integrated tendencies.
My integrator is waystronger than my visionary.
But if I have to go and vision andsit in that visionary role, I can
do and it's just, I'm fortunateenough to have that ability.
Not everybody can.
Donnie Boivin (14:48):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You'll, people will find theirlanes very quickly when the pressure
of actually doing business, hits,cuz it's, Mike Tyson says it best.
Everybody's got a plan tillyou get punched in the face.
And business is the biggest place you'regonna get smacked down like a bitch.
It's guarantee you don'thave things in place.
Man.
It's, Kevin and I have learned thehard way, way too many fucking times.
(15:09):
Yep.
You.
Oh dude, Keenan, I gotta tellyou, man, or Thomas, this has been
freaking a really cool conversation.
Anything you wanna wrapthis up with Kevin?
Yeah.
Appreciate that.
Kevin Snow (15:19):
No, thanks.
Thanks so much for being on.
I was really enjoyed this conversation,being able to dive a little bit
deeper and talk about some ofmy favorite parts of the book.
And, for our listeners I encourageyou to go get it, take it.
It's a really easy read.
It's full of it, good information,and it's gonna make you think
about how you run your business andwhat you can be doing differently.
That's gonna make it way more effective.
So thank you again for coming onand sharing a ton of really valuable
(15:42):
information with our listeners.
Thomas Keenan (15:43):
Yeah.
I appreciate you guys and Kevin, Iappreciate you actually reading a damn
book and speaking intelligently about it.
, Donnie Boivin: that's awesome.
Kevin Snow (15:52):
Made most people that have you on haven't actually read the book
and they're just picking out key phrases.
Thomas Keenan (15:56):
Yeah, sometimes , not always.
Donnie Boivin (16:00):
Oh, that's
Kevin Snow (16:01):
awesome.
Thomas Keenan (16:01):
Thanks fellas.
Donnie Boivin (16:02):
All right.
I didn't hate that conversation.
I gotta be honest, man.
Going into it and the whole idea oftalk integrator, talk about process
systems and those type of things,I really wasn't looking forward
to it a whole lot, but well done.
Dude.
That was a good goodo.
Good, fine.
Great conversation.
He's a good dude.
I really liked that one.
Kevin Snow (16:19):
Yeah, he's it's really cool because you, a lot of those people on
Instagram, you'll reach out to themand you'll ask 'em questions and have
comments and you don't get a response.
He replied, and I asked himquestions early and, and made
comments and, had not just the.
Business questions, but alsojust comments on his life stuff
(16:40):
that he posts, congratulations.
Oh, that looks awesome, dude.
I love that stuff too.
And it's really cool because we've startedto have this, Instagram relationship
where we actually inter and talkedback and forth and it's, I knew when we
made this change in the format that heneeded to be a guest, and I knew that
you were actually gonna really enjoy itbecause he's not the normal introvert.
Donnie Boivin (17:01):
Yeah.
No type person.
He was good.
I think my biggest, takeaway thing thatwe need to do a better job of is by
using the core values more public facing.
Yeah.
And I love the idea of sharingthe story of somebody who
represents that core value.
So that's something we're gonnatry and implement more of here.
And how do we find the stories from oneof our clients that, that completely
(17:23):
represented that idea of one of our
champions
code.
Yeah.
Kevin Snow (17:28):
For me the big takeaway was that, they have to be visible at.
Places in the business, know?
yeah.
It's not just something you throw onthe wall and then you you reference
every once in a while and you point outand you have a you page on the website.
It's gotta be stuff thatyou're talking about.
It needs to be stuff that you'retalking about outside of the company.
It's gotta be stuff you're talkingabout inside of the company and you're.
(17:50):
You're going back and referencingthem for all the stuff and it becomes
really the basis for how you'remaking decisions and not just the
platitudes that people wanna see.
Cuz it makes 'em feel good.
Donnie Boivin (18:02):
Yeah.
I still like that we're doing championscodes versus core values, mainly because
I think, living by the code is a lotstronger way of putting it than, living
your core values of your company.
So
Kevin Snow (18:13):
Does, can we start using the line from Mandalorian?
It is the.
This is the way.
Donnie Boivin (18:17):
Yeah, this is the way . We should now.
Great episode, man.
So guys, I really appreciateyou guys dialing into this one.
If you got any value out ofit, please do us a favor.
Make sure that you are subscribedand share this out with a friend.
Leave us a five star review.
And it really helps us get ourmessage and brand out there.
I'm having fun with this newformat, so I hope you guys are too.
(18:38):
So if you guys, need anythingfrom us, keep sending the
messages, keep sending the dms.
We really appreciate if you're tryingto reach out to us, you can catch us at
what the hell is the day on email, Kevin?
That they send a, that member.
Yeah, member Success Championnetworking@successchampionnetworking.com.
In stereo even.
So appreciate you guys.
Love you I minute.
(18:58):
See you.
Bye.
Hey, so I'm really excited for our next guest Thomas Keenan.
I found him on Instagram of allplaces, and I started following his
stuff and as the introvert processdriven guy, he was saying things,
I'm like, he's speaking my language.
I'm hearing stuff that sounds like me.
And I was immediately drawn in.
So I went out and got his book.
Unfuck Your Business.
(00:35):
If you haven't read it,we'll find it on Amazon.
It's awesome.
And I read it in like a.
And there was some really cool stuff.
So I'm excited to have you on and beable to, pick your brain on that whole
core values piece and how companiesare doing it wrong and how they can
do it, so welcome to growth mode.
Thomas Keenan (00:49):
Yeah.
Nice guys.
I appreciate coming in here.
And Kevin, we were joking before,this is actually the first time we're
having a face-to-face or we'll call ittechnology, the technology interaction
versus just chatting on Instagram.
So it's nice to meet both of you guys.
Kevin Snow (01:03):
So I wanna start off and I wanna start off with this question.
How do businesses and how dobusiness owners mess up core values?
Because everyone here is, yougotta have your core values.
You gotta make your list.
Yeah.
How are they screwing it up?
Thomas Keenan (01:16):
Number one, they don't have them.
Right?
That's the obvious.
But here's where I findthe biggest mess up.
And it's funny, I find the samecorrelation with those who become.
It's, we go ahead.
We do all this work to getclear on the core values.
We get clear.
We go and we write the book, and thenafterwards we don't do anything with it.
So we did the work, we got theexecutive team together, got the
(01:37):
founders together, whoever may be,we got clarity on the core values.
Now we're gonna throw 'em up on thewall and we're just gonna assume
that everyone's gonna go and liveby these values moving forward.
Donnie Boivin (01:47):
And that's my biggest frustration with core values as a whole.
And it's this whole idea that you'regonna spend time, make up some
bullshit words that have no meaning.
Fucking value.
Throwing 'em up in the words andeverybody's cool, core values are done.
Yeah.
This is why for years I've stayed awayfrom core values as a whole because
they've always been taught that way.
. And so how does somebody.
(02:08):
Put 'em one to where they actuallyhave some fucking meaning behind them.
Yeah.
And then two, like the authors that putthe books out and don't do a fucking thing
with them how does somebody implementthose core values so people actually
can live them throughout their company?
Yeah.
I know how we did it, but I'mcurious how you come from.
Sure.
Thomas Keenan (02:23):
There's a hundred different ways to get clarity
on your core values right there.
I cover away my book.
My book was written in 2019, actuallywritten in 2018 and launched in 20.
In that window, I've got more clarityon how to become more efficient at it.
So I've got a streamlined way of doing it.
And one of the mistakes I've made in thepast is actually having too many values,
and I'll get into that in a minute.
(02:43):
But basically start asking yourselfquestions like, what is it that I
want this business to provide me?
What is it that I wantthis business to provide?
The universe?
What is this business that Iwant to provide to the customers?
And what is it that I wannaprovide, say so to my team members?
Start asking yourself thosekind of questions, right?
Go Google a list of potential wordsyou can use as core values and
(03:04):
start putting something together.
And then that list isin my book, by the way.
Figure out a baseline of what these are.
Give me your top three of each of.
And now look back over that listand say, okay, you know what?
This is the top one that aligns with me.
This one really aligns with meand this one aligns with me.
Get that value, which is typicallya verb, and now start to go and
create a statement around it.
Tell me in your own words whythat's important to you and
(03:25):
the success of your company.
Why is that important to youand the overall success and
growth of your team members?
And this is just an exercisethat we've gotta work through.
It doesn't happen overnight.
It's gonna take a little bit of effort,energy, and work to get into it, but
if done correctly, we get clarity.
And now it's time to transition andimplement this into the company,
the culture, the team, right?
And this is where I, like Isaid earlier, this is where
(03:47):
most people are screwing it up.
I've had a couple different companiesmyself, where we've rolled this out.
I've helped roll this out intoanother larger organization that I
was part of up until very recently.
And the game changer thathappens is incredible, but
you've got to be ridiculously.
Redundant and consistentwith delivering the message.
Yeah, there is no way, for sure.
(04:08):
Couple things I wanna unpack in there.
Donnie Boivin (04:09):
First one being that I, I respected hell out of,
I wrote a book in 2018, put it outin 2019 and I've had more clarity.
I know that exact fucking thing.
hell, I wrote a book calledEndless Stream Referrals.
Now I barely even talk about referralsand focus more on introductions.
So I respect the hell outof that, cuz I know that.
The redundancy man is freaking huge intrying to convey any message that you
(04:31):
want people to wrap their head around.
We don't call 'em values, wecall 'em our champions codes.
. And one of the things that we came upwith when we were writing our codes
was, those sayings, those statements,they gotta evoke emotion, right?
They can't be just word.
If you don't feel it, yeah.
Then it's not a thing.
. And, one of our codes we putout there is Don't Be a Dick.
And that was written for me becauseI know how I show up sometimes
(04:53):
and my ego gets in a fucking way.
And I gotta remember the Tony, the Down.
But it was also written forKevin because he should never
be a customer service guy ever.
fucking, no patience whatsoever.
Kevin Snow (05:03):
So I'm getting better . I am acknowledging now when people email
in and I'm replying, I am acknowledginghow they feel and they're stressed
before I start asking questions.
So I'm working on that.
Thomas Keenan (05:16):
Thank you very much.
Donnie Boivin (05:17):
Now in between the.
The redundancy, for us, we had tosay it in front of a ton of meetings.
We, every time we did sessions,we're constantly bringing
up start meetings and stuff.
, what are other ways that we shouldbe sharing these to get people to
really lean into what we're tryingto accomplish within our, yeah,
Thomas Keenan (05:34):
it's important that this is an internal and
external communication, right?
Start, start changing your messagingand your marketing and the way that you
Donnie Boivin (05:43):
That's a great point, dude.
I don't think we are puttingout our codes outward.
Public facing enough.
Yeah.
mean, It's on a website, but we're nottalking about 'em enough out front.
No
Thomas Keenan (05:51):
talk.
So I love telling stories, right?
Cause facts tell, story sell, right?
So if we can tell a story of how we helpeda client or a team member, See, based
upon living out a core value or one ofour codes, we're giving out the message.
We're telling people what itis that we believe in, right?
We're telling people how we had awin, either internally or externally.
(06:12):
And if you guys know anything aboutmarketing, which I firmly believe you do,
good marketing is gonna do two things.
It's going to attract the right people toyour Audi, as far as your audience is also
gonna repel the people who don't belong.
So when you actually go out there andactivate and start talking about your
code and your core values that youbelieve in, you're gonna start bringing
the right people to you and to the point.
(06:34):
Where if it's done well enough,you can also start leveraging
social media, in my opinion, right?
To attract people to your team.
So now when it's oh shit, I gotta gofind a badass person to do X, Y, Z role.
Now we've put out enough content overtime so people really understand what
it is that we believe in and how weoperate, and there's gonna be an audience
(06:54):
of people who are just there watching.
They're sitting on the sidelineswatching us do what we do, and
they're gonna wanna come work for us.
When we put that offer out there,
Kevin Snow (07:01):
I love the whole concept of that you talked about in your book
about your quarterly meetings and Ithink the cool thing with CO or values
is if you do them correctly, they're thebasis for culture in the organization.
Yep.
But most companies will slap it upon the wall and then, and that's it.
And it doesn't become the basisfor anything that happens in their.
(07:23):
I loved how you do the quarterlymeetings and then for each of the
values you highlight someone who.
Who live that value.
And exhibited it outwardlywithin the company.
And you give them the kudos for that.
And then adding in thatnext step of start,
Donnie Boivin (07:38):
I gotta imagine.
Hold on.
I gotta imagine in there though, theygotta be fucking real and genuine, right?
, this has gotta be like areal fucking story that.
Yeah, totally embodies that,that code or that value.
Thomas Keenan (07:49):
A hundred percent.
Donnie Boivin (07:49):
That's really cool.
Kevin Snow (07:50):
Yeah, and it's a cool way to recognize, cuz you, everyone's used to
getting the recognition for performanceand production and for numbers and, I
did and for Thomas, this was at your,your in installation company, every was
like, I got so many systems installedand I did all that type of stuff.
But getting getting recogniz.
For the more intangible things.
And have, being able to be recognizedfor the impact you had on people
(08:14):
in the company is a completelydifferent type of recognition.
Oh, for sure.
And I think it goes way deeper forthat person and makes them feel way
more appreciated than just saying, Hey,great you sold 15 systems this month.
Yep.
Yep.
The other thing I loved in thosemeetings that you did that Donnie
and I are gonna be talking about whenwe do our planning meeting here in a
few weeks is the start, stop, keep.
(08:35):
, can you share about that?
Cause I think, I thought that was genius.
I literally got a highlighter andstarted highlighting stuff in the book.
When it, when the, when I hit that.
Thomas Keenan (08:44):
It's real similar to a SWOT analysis, strengths,
weaknesses, opportunities, threats.
It's worded a bit different, right?
And we used to do these at our quarterliesand basically we would go and get these
giant postages, the real big ones,like three feet by four feet deal.
Go to Staples and gograb one of those things.
And they got the, they're justbig postages, big stickers.
Stick 'em on the wall.
And I would never do it causeI have horrible handwriting.
(09:04):
But I get someone on the team to bedescribed for the day, like everything
that comes out and we add to thislist, just write it here, and we're
gonna document what's going on.
And we would put a bigtitle on top of them.
One was start, one wasstop, one was Keith.
And the question, we'd go aroundthe room and we'd ask for real
feedback from the entire team.
What do we need to start doing in orderto get closer to achieving our goal?
(09:26):
And the whole team knows what the goal is.
It's part of building theculture of the company, right?
This is the big goal that we'reactive for this year, for this
month, whatever it may be.
What do we need to start doingthat we're not currently doing now?
That's gonna help us get to that goal.
What do we need to stop doing?
Because oftentimes we get nailed withwhat I call busyness, not business.
There's all this little fluff andbullshit that we think is so important,
(09:46):
but ultimately, you guys know at thispoint in time, in your careers, there's
a lot of bullshit out there thatmakes absolutely no difference to the
outcome in your company whatsoever.
So what is it?
Let's be open, let's have open directconversation, communication around here.
Let's document it.
Let's start scratching that shit off thelist, and then we're gonna figure out how
do we stop doing that shit completely?
How do we eliminate it from whatwe're doing each and every day?
(10:07):
Because it's wasting time,it's inefficient, it's costing
money whole nine yards.
Kevin Snow (10:10):
And what was interesting, before we get into the key part Yeah.
In the book you gave the.
The example you gave was youremployees were saying, we need to
stop having this guy as a client.
, we need to get rid of thiscustomer because here's how
he's fucking up our days.
Yep.
And I thought that was reallypowerful that they even had the.
The confidence dispute to beable to make that comment.
(10:33):
, because most clientsare gonna be, say Yeah.
Or most employees aren't gonnacall and say, Hey, Donnie, Kevin,
we need to fire this person.
Yeah.
We need to fire this
Thomas Keenan (10:40):
client.
That goes back to core values, right?
One of the core values in, in anycompany that I own and will own
in the future is communication.
right?
There's open direct communication fromeveryone that's internal and external,
and we're proactive with it as well.
So if something's rubbing yourass the wrong way, do me a favor.
I don't want to deal with thiswhen you blow up because you
can't handle your shit one day.
(11:01):
I wanna know about it now so wecan go ahead and fix it early.
So when you empower your people to comein and have that open, direct conversation
with you, and you're not gonna bite theirhead off when they do tell you something
that you may not want to hear that day.
Which is part of it, you,
That's almost all.
Yeah.
It's that moment when they cometo you and say, Hey, dude, this
shit is pissing me to fuck off.
(11:21):
You've got to fuckingstand on your damn heels.
And go walk me through it, brother.
Tell me what it is.
Because the minute you flip and youdon't honor your own core values.
Yep.
It's a lose culture.
Yep.
That's the biggest thing with core values.
They cannot be a wishlist.
They have to be whatyou're actually living.
Donnie Boivin (11:38):
Right.
. Yeah.
No, I love it.
Kevin Snow (11:43):
This whole before Donnie you, oh, you go into your next question.
Let's talk about keep
Thomas Keenan (11:48):
the third step.
So same deal, right?
What do we need to keep doing inorder for us to achieve the goals
that we've set forward, right?
Because there's a couple of thingsthat we got going on right now
that are working really well.
And we don't wanna stop doing them.
So if we're gonna keepthem cool, let's keep them.
Or how do we optimize what we'recurrently doing here to make it better?
Donnie Boivin (12:08):
That's a really smart way of looking at business, though.
I hate the fact that youbrought this guy to the table.
Kevin, this sucks . Iain't learning shit today.
See?
Oh
Kevin Snow (12:16):
told you he talks my language.
I'm like, oh, i, and.
Donnie Boivin (12:20):
Yeah, I'm not the process guy.
I don't follow systems.
I fucking hate 'em.
They're, there's a necessityyou can't scale without 'em.
. We're constantly buildingand putting 'em in there.
So he tells me he's bringing aguy who's talking about process
systems and all this stuff.
I'm expecting the fuckingbookworm that, is all this
operationally focused type shit.
And I'm like, God, how the fuck amI gonna fit in this conversation?
(12:42):
. So props toia for being a moretype A personality that's focused
on getting culture and shit right?
Cause you don't always see that out there.
Yeah.
In the marketplace a lot of timesyou get these kind of alpha dog,
mentalities and they're like, fuckyou, let's just dominate the world.
You get the bro marketers andthat kind of thing out there.
So yeah.
propps brother forshowing up How you show.
Thomas Keenan (13:02):
Thanks.
Appreciate that.
Kevin Snow (13:03):
I thought that was really interesting as I dug dove into that
whole integrator, visionary world.
, no I, Donnie and I have always beenin the extrovert, introvert world and
looking at stuff from that viewpoint,so I just assumed that the visionary
integrator was the same thing.
You had your extrovert, your introvert,the integrator is the introvert.
I'm like, oh, sweet.
One of me.
But then I started researchingand I'm like, oh, the
(13:24):
integrator's actually normally an.
And that, which really surprised me.
I'm like crap, now where the fuckdo I fit ? Because I literally
thought I had found my tribe.
And I'm like, oh God damn it.
So I thought that was really interestingbecause a lot of the stuff you talk
about is the things that we thrive on.
, but our, we just aren't asoutspoken about it all the time.
Thomas Keenan (13:44):
Yep.
Got it.
Yeah, man.
I have the unique ability becausein my last company, my installation
company, which I talk heavily aboutin the book, there was nobody else
sitting in that visionary seat.
So I'm naturally wiredas an integrator, right?
Someone who's wants to buildthe systems and processes
and put the backend together.
And a lot of that has to do withmy former career as a customer.
(14:06):
Car audio installer isliterally, that's what we did.
We integrated aftermarketelectronics into a factory vehicle.
So it rewired my brain at a youngage to start thinking process wise.
But with my install company, there wasnobody with the ability to fill the
visionary seat and somebody had to stepup to the plate and fill it, right?
So even though I'm more naturally anintegrator, I had to step into that
(14:29):
role and fulfill it as best as I could.
Was it perfect?
No, it wasn't.
But it enabled me tostrengthen my visionary tend.
As well as keep my integrated tendencies.
My integrator is waystronger than my visionary.
But if I have to go and vision andsit in that visionary role, I can
do and it's just, I'm fortunateenough to have that ability.
Not everybody can.
Donnie Boivin (14:48):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You'll, people will find theirlanes very quickly when the pressure
of actually doing business, hits,cuz it's, Mike Tyson says it best.
Everybody's got a plan tillyou get punched in the face.
And business is the biggest place you'regonna get smacked down like a bitch.
It's guarantee you don'thave things in place.
Man.
It's, Kevin and I have learned thehard way, way too many fucking times.
(15:09):
Yep.
You.
Oh dude, Keenan, I gotta tellyou, man, or Thomas, this has been
freaking a really cool conversation.
Anything you wanna wrapthis up with Kevin?
Yeah.
Appreciate that.
Kevin Snow (15:19):
No, thanks.
Thanks so much for being on.
I was really enjoyed this conversation,being able to dive a little bit
deeper and talk about some ofmy favorite parts of the book.
And, for our listeners I encourageyou to go get it, take it.
It's a really easy read.
It's full of it, good information,and it's gonna make you think
about how you run your business andwhat you can be doing differently.
That's gonna make it way more effective.
So thank you again for coming onand sharing a ton of really valuable
(15:42):
information with our listeners.
Thomas Keenan (15:43):
Yeah.
I appreciate you guys and Kevin, Iappreciate you actually reading a damn
book and speaking intelligently about it.
, Donnie Boivin: that's awesome.
Kevin Snow (15:52):
Made most people that have you on haven't actually read the book
and they're just picking out key phrases.
Thomas Keenan (15:56):
Yeah, sometimes , not always.
Donnie Boivin (16:00):
Oh, that's
Kevin Snow (16:01):
awesome.
Thomas Keenan (16:01):
Thanks fellas.
Donnie Boivin (16:02):
All right.
I didn't hate that conversation.
I gotta be honest, man.
Going into it and the whole idea oftalk integrator, talk about process
systems and those type of things,I really wasn't looking forward
to it a whole lot, but well done.
Dude.
That was a good goodo.
Good, fine.
Great conversation.
He's a good dude.
I really liked that one.
Kevin Snow (16:19):
Yeah, he's it's really cool because you, a lot of those people on
Instagram, you'll reach out to themand you'll ask 'em questions and have
comments and you don't get a response.
He replied, and I asked himquestions early and, and made
comments and, had not just the.
Business questions, but alsojust comments on his life stuff
(16:40):
that he posts, congratulations.
Oh, that looks awesome, dude.
I love that stuff too.
And it's really cool because we've startedto have this, Instagram relationship
where we actually inter and talkedback and forth and it's, I knew when we
made this change in the format that heneeded to be a guest, and I knew that
you were actually gonna really enjoy itbecause he's not the normal introvert.
Donnie Boivin (17:01):
Yeah.
No type person.
He was good.
I think my biggest, takeaway thing thatwe need to do a better job of is by
using the core values more public facing.
Yeah.
And I love the idea of sharingthe story of somebody who
represents that core value.
So that's something we're gonnatry and implement more of here.
And how do we find the stories from oneof our clients that, that completely
(17:23):
represented that idea of one of our
champions
code.
Yeah.
Kevin Snow (17:28):
For me the big takeaway was that, they have to be visible at.
Places in the business, know?
yeah.
It's not just something you throw onthe wall and then you you reference
every once in a while and you point outand you have a you page on the website.
It's gotta be stuff thatyou're talking about.
It needs to be stuff that you'retalking about outside of the company.
It's gotta be stuff you're talkingabout inside of the company and you're.
(17:50):
You're going back and referencingthem for all the stuff and it becomes
really the basis for how you'remaking decisions and not just the
platitudes that people wanna see.
Cuz it makes 'em feel good.
Donnie Boivin (18:02):
Yeah.
I still like that we're doing championscodes versus core values, mainly because
I think, living by the code is a lotstronger way of putting it than, living
your core values of your company.
So
Kevin Snow (18:13):
Does, can we start using the line from Mandalorian?
It is the.
This is the way.
Donnie Boivin (18:17):
Yeah, this is the way . We should now.
Great episode, man.
So guys, I really appreciateyou guys dialing into this one.
If you got any value out ofit, please do us a favor.
Make sure that you are subscribedand share this out with a friend.
Leave us a five star review.
And it really helps us get ourmessage and brand out there.
I'm having fun with this newformat, so I hope you guys are too.
(18:38):
So if you guys, need anythingfrom us, keep sending the
messages, keep sending the dms.
We really appreciate if you're tryingto reach out to us, you can catch us at
what the hell is the day on email, Kevin?
That they send a, that member.
Yeah, member Success Championnetworking@successchampionnetworking.com.
In stereo even.
So appreciate you guys.
Love you I minute.
(18:58):
See you.
Bye.
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