Episode 40 -Trusting GUS: A Journey of Resilience with Hilary Young

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey friend, welcome to the halfway to dead podcast.
I'm your host, Jen Lovell.
Listen, you and I have reachedthat age where we are done with
the bullshit.
We know that midlife is ourchance to flip the script and
experience life on our own terms.
It's time to reconnect with ourhigher selves and reclaim our
inner peace.
Are you ready with an openheart and an open mind?

(00:26):
Awesome, You're in the rightplace.
Hop in and ride shotgun with meon this midlife spiritual
journey.
Hi guys, welcome back.
Thanks for coming.
Hey, keep an eye on my socials,you guys, because I'm starting
to drop some videos and thingsthat go along with some of our
episodes, so you know if youfeel like it.

(00:48):
If not, it's cool.
So today I interviewed HilaryYoung, who is the author of
Trusting Gus, an inspiringmemoir about resilience,
addiction recovery and thepresence of a higher power she
calls Great Universal Spirit, orGus.
So Hilary was raised by anabusive bipolar alcoholic and
she navigated a turbulentchildhood.
She's battled addictions andultimately found sobriety.

(01:12):
Later in life, she went througha near-death experience of
liver failure at 58, which kindof motivated her to share this
story and reveal the moments ofgrace that shaped her journey.
Share this story and reveal themoments of grace that shaped
her journey.
So we go over everything, youguys, she, her AA journey.

(01:33):
We talk about both hernear-death experience when she
was a child and also you knowthe journey she went through
with liver failure.
She struggled with suicidalthoughts through that Just you
guys, all kinds of stuff.
She's been through the thingsbut, more importantly, she has
come back out the other side andis healing.
Okay, I'm not going to sayshe's healed, because none of us
are healed with a period at theend.
No, she's healing like the restof us.

(01:53):
I enjoyed the book.
I enjoyed Hillary, theinterview.
I feel like I found a lifelongfriend.
Shout out Hillary.
So let's get into it.
Let's hear everything thatHillary has to share with us
today.
Hey, Hillary, thanks for beinghere today.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, jen, thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
So I told everyone about your book that I read
Trusting Guests.
I was thinking this morningabout how many things Hillary
has been through you guys inthis book, so I was like
refreshing myself on everythingand I was like, whoa, just when
you think that nothing else canbe thrown at someone, no guys,
it got thrown at Hillary.
Right.
So I want to sit here and Idon't want to just go over all

(02:35):
the shitty things that havehappened to Hillary, but I think
we've got to go over a littlebit of this so people know what
has led you to your ownspiritual awakening and where
you're at today.
Right, which is kind of thepoint of the book, right?
Yes, exactly Because this bookis I mean, it's basically your
life story and I rememberreading it and thinking, as I
got done with a chapter and Ithought, well, that that's got

(02:58):
to be it, their life can't throwanymore at this poor woman.
And then nope, I get to thenext chapter.
I'm like, well, son of a bitch,there's another one, there's
another trial and tribulationthat Hillary's got going on.
Well, what's hilarious aboutthat is this is not my life
story, this is a 300-page bookabout some stuff that's happened

(03:18):
in my life, so there'sdefinitely more, not in this
book.
You probably have more books inyou, is what I'm thinking, but
let's just start with this bookand let's start where we all,
when we start in a spiritualjourney, we all end up having to
head back to our damnchildhoods, exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Our damn childhoods is a good way to put it.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
So in your book okay, this is a quote from a book you
say I had a U-Haul of baggagefrom my bizarre childhood and
while patterns repeat.
Okay, this is how you from abook.
You say I had a U-Haul ofbaggage from my bizarre
childhood and while patternsrepeat.
Okay, this is how you startedone of your chapters.
And you were kidding when yousay you know, things got a
little bizarre in your childhood.
So let's just start with yourparents, your mom and your dad.

(04:00):
Tell us a little bit about whatwas going on in your childhood.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
So what was going on in my childhood was the 60s.
That's pretty much what wasgoing on in my childhood.
So my parents were very young.
My mom was 20 and my father was23 when they got pregnant with
me.
Actually, my mom was 19 and hadme at 20.
So they were wholly unpreparedto be parents and tried to not

(04:27):
have to be parents.
But apparently I'm verystubborn because their attempt
to end the pregnancy failed andI'm still here, right.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
And the crazy part is , you found this out because
your dad spouted this stuff out.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, because he was not a particularly kind person.
He was kind of.
He could be really cruel.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
And then your mom was like the whole thing was
chaotic that night.
I just remember from the book alot going on there.
But basically your mom and dad,they were going to end the
pregnancy but you said no, sir.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't even know if I said no sir.
If Gus said no sir, For peoplethat are wondering, Gus stands
for great universal spirit,which is my word for God, just
because God can feel sticky forpeople.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
I've heard people say Gus also, and they think of it
as God, universe spirit, Likeit's all of those combined in
one.
And so yours is great.
Universal spirit, same thing.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Gallop stairs grand, unconditional support, just
divine source, whatever we'reall calling it.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's what Gus is, that's what her book is about
you guys trusting Gus, and so no, Gus for sure had a plan for
you to be here and it was notgetting derailed, yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Apparently right and my, like I say in my book, my
parents or at least my father'sthought was that I was supposed
to be twins and somehow the twinprobably the one with the good
hair got aborted.
And now I'm still here, andthat's okay Because I don't have
judgment on my parents formaking that decision.
I get it.

(06:01):
They were young.
They knew each other for threeweeks.
They were young.
They knew each other for threeweeks.
They were terrified, and then,when I was still here, they made
it happen.
My mom stepped up to the plateand raised me, and my father was
bipolar, with schizophrenictendencies.
That first episode didn'thappen until I was about four,
and so it was a lot for myparents to have to deal with,

(06:24):
and a part of that was that theywere definitely both very free
spirits who were really enjoyingsex, drugs and rock and roll
and had no intention of stoppingthat in spite of their parental
status.
So it made for some crazy times, for absolute sure.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
You had a sister.
Later on, from a secondmarriage, you had a brother, but
you had a sister that grew upwith you.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, and she's almost four years younger and
was chosen I mean, she'sactually three years and nine
months younger because when Iturned three they decided they
were having another baby.
So my sister was here ninemonths later.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
So bad having kids.
They figured that out Exactly.
She's not so bad, Regardless,and I know and we'll talk about
this later because you've cometo a place where you appreciate
your parents for who they wereand all of that but at the time
in your childhood, like you said, when you have a mentally ill
parent, at least one parent,there was some alcoholism going

(07:23):
on, all kinds of things.
It's hard to it's, it'schildren, it's hard to deal with
.
So you definitely need to havegood old Gus on your side
through all of that, which I did.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
I was so.
I mean I literally had angelsshow up and wrap their arms
around me.
I have had enough experiencethat there is a power greater
than ourselves watching out forus.
Here's what I came away withfrom my childhood, but also from
writing this book.
Like the two, things are notmutually exclusive, right.
So what I realized,particularly in hindsight, was

(07:56):
that things that happen in ourlives that seem awful at the
time because they feel awful atthe time seem awful at the time
because they feel awful at thetime.
When we look back on them, wecan really see where there was a
divine hand in the things thatwere happening.
It does not mean that thethings that were happening were
good, but it does mean thatsomething good comes out of them

(08:19):
.
We grow, we learn, we change, wedevelop as a result of these
difficulties.
Throughout our lives, butparticularly our childhood.
It molds who we are and somepeople get, you know, broken and
become people that have a hardtime loving other people, like
my father and some of us have togo through years of being

(08:40):
pretty pissed off because I geta lot I was pretty pissed off
for a long time and theneventually come to a place where
we find our own spiritual path,where we realize that sounds so
cheesy and I get that, but lovekind of is the answer.
Love actually is always theanswer, and that you know I had
a lot of therapy, a lot oftherapy.
I worked hard to try to find mysanity in the midst of all the

(09:05):
insanity and I'm not a bit sorryfor any of it.
I'm not mad at my parentsanymore.
I'm not mad at myself anymore.
I'm not even mad at myex-husband anymore, like I'm not
mad at any of them.
I just go thanks, guys, forteaching me a lot of really
important stuff.
I'm sorry that you went throughwhat you went through to make

(09:25):
you who you were and you knowwith my father, rest in peace
With my mother, go in peace.
Yeah, that's all I could do so,all right.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
So let's go back, because I definitely want to
talk about, like, how this cameabout for you, how you've gotten
to this really peaceful placenow, but for those who haven't
read the book yet, I want toread this is on page 34 in your
book, and so you talked abouthow angels would wrap their arms
around you.
This is what she writes at theend of this, and then I'm going
to have you tell us a little,just this brief story, of that.
Okay, so it says.

(09:54):
Someone once told me thatangels comfort children.
I believe that's true.
That day I learned, in themidst of chaos, that there are
those who will protect otherswho can't predict themselves,
and angels who can bring comfortwhen no one else does.
This world may seem scary andlonely, but maybe I'm never
really alone.
So how old would you say youwere when this happened, when

(10:17):
the angel you felt the angerAbout 10.
Okay, so there was, as happened, a lot.
There was chaos going on inyour household, if I remember
correctly, was, and he was beingabusive.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
He just pointed a gun at my mother, which her
boyfriend at the time did notknow, but he came home from work
and he was angry at my fatherbecause my father inspired a lot
of ire and he punched him.
And so I learned howinteresting it is.
Even when an abuser is beingawful, the people that love them

(11:11):
their kids, their wives,whatever automatically want to
protect them and get mad at theperson who stands up for them.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yes, isn't that a strange phenomenon.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, it's a strange phenomenon, but I get it.
I'm not saying it's right, I'mjust saying I understand why it
happens.
Sure, yeah, and so that was thefirst time I'd ever had anybody
really stand up for us as afamily that it's not okay to
behave that way.
And then my father got arrestedand it was all very confusing
and scary, and so I went in andlaid down on my bed and all of a

(11:45):
sudden I felt the cat.
We had a swinging bed, I shouldsay.
My father suspended our bedfrom the ceiling.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Sure, they were about to hit me.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
It was great, though, because you give it a little
push and you get rocked to sleep, right.
So I felt the cat jump up on theend of the bed, and as it got
closer I could feel that it wasnot a cat it was the size of a
person by the movement in thebed, and just you know how you
can tell what's climbing up nextto you it's a cat or a human.
Yeah, I assumed it was my mom,and I felt these arms wrap
around me, but what wasdifferent about that was this

(12:18):
sense of absolute peace andcomfort I felt was more than the
love of your mother.
It was just beautiful, but itfelt great, and I assumed it was
my mother, because who elsewould it be Right?
And then I rolled over in thesearms and there was no one there
, but I could still feel thelove, and then I heard my
parents yelling at each otheroutside.

(12:38):
So that was one of the firstreally significant moments I've
had where I knew that I had hadan encounter with an angel, and
I've had people say well, youmust have been asleep.
I have people.
You imagine that it doesn'tmatter what anybody says,
because I know what happened andI remember it vividly to this
day and when we remembersomething really vividly from

(12:59):
our childhood.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
It happened, right, because we block out a lot of
just incoquential things fromour childhood.
We don't remember all, or mostpeople do, so that was one of
the first times that you knewthat the angels were there.
So throughout your childhoodlisten, you had all kinds of
other stuff going.
Am I right?
I did, yeah, like you're likeoh, whatever, we all have

(13:21):
parents, they have their things.
No, but listen, you had allkinds of things going on.
Not only were you dealing withthese parents that were doing
their best but were notsucceeding and doing a great job
all the time they did not knockit out of the park.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
They did not.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
They did not knock it out of the park, Okay, but you
also.
There were parts in your bookwhere you talked about you dealt
with eating disorders Also.
You had childhood sexual abuse.
That happened at the hands of aneighbor and then no one.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, I was in a neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
So, who it?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
was was a man that, prior to moving to Keddie, we
lived in a on an Indianreservation called Big Bend.
We lived on an Indianreservation called Big Bend and
while we were there, a homelessguy showed up in a van.
And you know, these guys arecharming and my mother, bless

(14:14):
her heart, is a very codependentperson, obviously or she would
not have been with my father andshe decided that this man just
needed someone to be kind to himand so she allowed him to
participate in our lives.
And he was a predator and hesexually abused me from the time

(14:35):
I was four until I was 12.
, or five, excuse me, the time Iwas five until I was 12.
And it was awful.
And he told me that he would,you know, hurt my mother and my
sister if I said it, we're kids,we're scared.
Yeah, and put me in a weirdposition because I was the
oldest of the kids in theneighborhood, felt very
responsible for others, so Ikind of had to go out of my way

(14:58):
to yeah, to kind of protectpeople.
And then there's a whole layerof guilt that comes in, because
you feel like you're bringing iton yourself, because I'd rather
it be me than my little sister,I'd rather it be me than my
neighbors Right.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Then you start to question wait, did I want that
Exactly?
Your brain does awful things.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
It did awful things, and probably the most awful
piece is that when I finally didfind the courage to come out
and say, hey, this is happeningand it's not okay, no one would
believe me.
My mother said well, he kisseseverybody like that and that
happens to everyone.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Which is the fear that predators embed in children
.
Anyway, no one's going tobelieve you.
You're a kid, you're a crazyteenager.
Now, whatever, no one's goingto believe you.
Right, and that became realityfor you.
It becomes reality for a lot ofpeople, unfortunately.
For a lot of people,unfortunately, and especially,
probably, for your mom.
She was locking that awaysomewhere in her brain.

(15:50):
She just didn't want to dealwith that.
For sure, because I have thesame kind of things from my
childhood too.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I'm so sorry that you did yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
So I know exactly what you're saying when you say
this.
Yeah, so all of this is goingon In the midst of all of this.
You have a near-deathexperience.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I did Probably the most wonderful, beautiful thing
that has ever happened in mywhole life, Right around
somewhere between 10 and 12.
I wish I could pinpoint itexactly, but when you've been
through this kind of traumatimelines get fuzzy, it all sort

(16:33):
of you know.
It just becomes difficult topin down the exact day on things
which you know.
If I'm honest, I'm 50, almost59 years old now and we don't
remember that stuff.
Anyway, I don't remember whatday it is.
Now.
Thank God for my watch with thedate on it so I can know oh,
today's, we will say you were 11, ish give or take.
So I was with a group of friendsand, uh, one of them was
developmentally delayed.

(16:54):
We were swimming in a riverthat's regularly dredged for
gold, or at least was regularlydredged for gold.
So it would go flat, flat, youknow, sandy, rocky bottom, and
then all of a sudden drop offthree to eight feet Out of
nowhere.
Out of nowhere and if you knowthose are there.
If you can swim it doesn'tmatter.
But one of the ladies, one ofthe girls I was with, was a very

(17:17):
large, developmentally delayedyoung woman who could not swim,
and it was my fault.
I got frightened by a crawdadand I stepped backward into her
and knocked her into the dropoff and she grabbed onto me and
used me as a ladder to climb out.
Yeah, okay, and I remember whatit felt like to have my lungs
filled with water.
It's very painful, and Iremember struggling.

(17:40):
And then I remember looking atmyself struggling in the water
and then stopping struggling andthen suddenly I was floating
above the river, being able tosee everything.
I could see my hair floating ontop of the water as my body was
drifting away.
I watched Rami climb out of thewater and go up onto the beach

(18:01):
and sit down.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Okay, so she climbed, you saved her.
Basically, you just savedherself.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
She saved herself by using me, you know, god.
No, no animosity there, becauseof course she did.
She was just surviving likesurvival mode.
Not her fault at all, no.
So all of a sudden I was.
I was connected to a source oflove that was so powerful it

(18:28):
overrode every other feeling Ihave ever had in my life.
It was connection where I couldhear almost a hum in the air.
I felt connected to.
This sounds insane and Iunderstand insanity runs in my
family, but I promise I'm notcrazy here, or okay, maybe I am,

(18:48):
but I am telling the true storyof what happened.
I was connected to everything,from every grain of sand to
every leaf on the tree, to everyperson I've ever met, to
everything around, everythingaround.
I felt like I was separate, buta part of this incredible love
that ran like like a threadthrough everything in the world.

(19:18):
You felt the oneness.
I felt the oneness.
I felt this most divinelybeautiful power that I did.
I could have stayed there.
I wish I would have stayedthere.
I can't tell you the number oftimes people talk about being
afraid to die.
I'm like, oh no, it's reallygood.
I promise it was great, don'tyou worry about that?
Yeah, that is not a thing toworry about.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Did you?

Speaker 2 (19:40):
see what?
I didn't see a tunnel.
I didn't see anybody else.
I knew None of that stuffhappened to me Was everything
just very vibrant.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Were you still looking at hair?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
floating.
Yeah Well, at this point I wasfascinated by everything going
on around me, this connection Ihad to everything, this
understanding.
This is one of the things thatI wanted to say on this podcast.
So people talk about divineforgiveness and I can tell you

(20:11):
that, from what my experiencewas, the minute I was no longer
part of my body, I was connectedto this divine love, this
divine connection, in such a waythat I could never hurt
anything.
And I couldn't for two reasons.
One is because I am love.
Two is because I am soconnected to everything else

(20:33):
that the idea of doing it harmis senseless.
There's just no.
Why would you?
Because you'd be hurtingyourself.
So we're all part of God, allpart of God.
So I suspect that is whatdivine forgiveness is.
If, the minute you're no longercorporeal, you are connected,

(20:54):
there's no need for forgiveness,because there's absolutely no
question.
If you would ever repeat thesame behavior, you simply could
not, you would not.
No, you couldn't.
You just couldn't, you wouldn't.
But you couldn't because itdefies all logic.
You can't.
I suspect that is what divineforgiveness is about.

(21:15):
And the hard thing for peopleto wrap their head around is,
you know, we as humans, we wantrevenge, we want punishment.
We want to know.
People have learned theirlesson.
You know that's all very human.
Yeah, karma's going to get you,karma's going to get you, and
that all makes sense when we'rehere, but it makes no sense when
we're there.
It just doesn't.

(21:37):
So that divine forgivenesscomes from that.
You don't have to believe inanything.
I was having this conversationwith somebody yesterday who I
love and adore, who's veryCatholic, and she's convinced
there's hell and I'm like, yeah,there's not.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
I am so confident All right, let me read this part in
your book, because you had thisexperience in that and you just
talked about divine forgivenessand about you know religion.
So this is about you're talkingin this chapter, about you were
at a church and you say andthis was a woman speaking and

(22:13):
you said I was baffled by herwillingness to believe that God
only saved the souls of peoplewho love Jesus.
How could these adults not know?
It was all just a story.
I had firsthand experience ofwhat it was like to be outside
of my body and there was not apearly gate to be found.
God was not.
I loved that part.
I was like, yes, and that isnot me saying that Jesus isn't

(22:43):
real.
That's not what that is.
Of course not, because ofcourse he was yes, he was, yes,
he was.
That's an amazing story.
Jesus was amazing.
That's not what we're saying.
Everybody.
What we're saying is it makeszero sense to believe that God,
like you said, has Jesusstanding there with him and is
just like a maitre d'.
You're not on the list.
You're not on the list Turningall these really great people

(23:06):
away.
Okay, I have never, since I wasa child, been able to get on
board with that, and I wasraised by a very strict
Christian, especially my father.
Okay, that never made sense tome.
I was like, I feel like the GodI know inside of me is not that
God you know.
So you felt in your near-deathexperience you felt that oneness

(23:29):
and that pure just love.
It's just all love.
When we get there Because I'vetalked to other guests about you
know we all want to believethat the serial killers are
roasting in the depths of hell,right?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Because we're mad at them, because we're mad.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
We don't know how to make it right, and so we need to
let that go and just be likethere's nothing to make right.
It'll all go back to god andit'll all.
You know.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
There's lessons to be learned, and we're all learning
different ones and it doesn'tmean that what people are doing
is okay, because it's not.
There's a lot of thingshappening in this world that are
super not okay, and and Ibelieve that while we're here,
we have a responsibility to loveas much as we possibly can,

(24:17):
because that's the energy we allwant out there, because that's
what we want coming back to us.
I feel like karma's a bit of acrapshoot in so much as all of
this energy is flitting aroundout there that we've put out
there one way or another, andhow it lands might be more
random than people like tobelieve.
So it is in our best interestto put as much positive out

(24:41):
there as we can, because that'swhat we'd like back, and
negative energy is not a wholelot of fun to deal with.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Right.
We're only going to get thatback.
So you cannot go wrong bytrying to elevate yourself and
be positive and do good and bein service and be kind to others
.
That is never going to lead youdown the wrong path, exactly
correct.
Stop worrying about all of thebad people and who's going to
take care of them.
That's not our job, right.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
It's not our job.
Our job is even and this hasbeen freaking people out all
week.
So I did a post about I do ameditation every morning to
breathwork meditation.
That part doesn't really matter.
The focus of my meditation ispulling in, from the top of my
head to the bottoms of my feet,divine light and I fill myself

(25:30):
up with it.
And then I expand that divinelight out into a bubble and then
I imagine, whatever person I'mhaving conflict with because
welcome to life, there's thatthere's always going to be
someone that is harder for youthan others.
That's just part of being alive.
So I imagine that person and ifI'm really mad at him, I have

(25:53):
to imagine him being a littlekid.
And then I just wrap my armsaround them and I kiss him on
top of the head and I tell themhow loved they are Not just my
love, because I don't alwaysfeel super loving towards people
, but I have felt that divinelove and I know how powerful it
is.
And I know that this personthat I'm wrapping in my arms and

(26:14):
in my mind and within thislight I've created, is just as
loved as I am, no matter what.
They are loved.
It doesn't matter what they'vedone, doesn't matter how they
feel, it doesn't matter.
They are, are loved.
It doesn't matter what they'vedone, doesn't matter how they
feel, it doesn't matter.
They are so loved and I pour asmuch love light as I can into
that person and then I let themgo out of the bubble and get on
with my life, because right nowthere's so much difficult things

(26:38):
, so many difficult choicesbeing made, so much going on,
that all of us can benefit,because you can't hurt yourself
pulling divine light intoyourself and you can absolutely
help someone else and yourself,by using divine light to help
you to resolve whatever negativefeelings you're feeling towards

(27:01):
somebody else.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Let's just because people may want to do this, they
should do this, I want everyoneto do this.
Version of that.
I do, but so you okay, so youdo 40 breaths, I do, I do that.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
I ain't going to lie, I'm sober.
I've been clean and sober since2017.
And this is pretty much theonly high I get is this little
bit of hyperventilation I get todo in order to do this
meditation.
It feels great, so I do 40 ofthose breaths and in the end I
blow out all my air.
And that, as my air is out andI'm just sitting there, is when

(27:37):
I focus on pulling divine lightthrough the top of my head to
the bottoms of my feet and Icome in like through your crown.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
It goes all the way through the way down, head to
the bottoms of my feet and Iwatch it come in like through
your crown.
It goes all the way throughyour body All the way down.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
You can line it up with your chakras however you
want to do it so you're filledwith all this beautiful loving
light right.
And then you exactly, and thenwhen you breathe in, after a
minute of holding your breathout, and if you can't do a
minute, don't do a minute yourbreath out.
And if you can't do a minute,don't do a minute, do 45 seconds
, can't do 45 seconds, do 30.
It doesn't matter, because thepoint is pulling the breath into

(28:07):
you and then blowing all yourair out, holding it and then
breathing in a deep breath andholding that.
And when you breathe in thedeep breath it's easy for me,
because I'm breathing in, toimagine expanding out into a
bubble of light.
So now it's not just a beam,it's a bubble of light that I'm
in, that I can pull anotherperson into, wrap them in my

(28:31):
arms.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
You're not putting the people you're pissed off at
in their own bubble.
No, they're there.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
And I'm holding them in my arms.
Oh, you're just embracing them.
Embracing them with the lovethat I felt when I was connected
.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Someone's so bad that you're like you just pretend
they're a kid, they're a child,and that makes me feel.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Okay, yeah, that kid, like I've done it.
This sounds with the man whomolested me, who.
You know that I should never beable to do that, but I don't
have to because I'm not.
I'm pulling them into thebubble and showering them in the
divine love I felt when I wasconnected on the other side.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah.
So you're giving that love,god's love.
Not necessarily you're lovingthat person, you're just letting
them feel that love.
Yeah, with you, yes, and then,and I'm- feeling it too.
Yeah, because I'm pulling itinto me.
And then you just send them outof your bubble, mm-hmm, and
you're done.
And where did it?
You visualize them just likefloating off, or where did they

(29:30):
go?

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Usually, I'm mad at them so I don't care what they
do after that.
It's just the opposite.
They're gone, they're out ofyour bubble.
I you have a nice day have anice day.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I want to try to bring them into my bubble
because I've typically what I'vedone, like with a cord cutting
meditation, so what I've done isvisualized those people, let's
just say also, I've done thiswith my abuser Put them in the
bubble.
I don't put them in my bubble,okay, in a bubble, and there's
like a cord catch and it's aloving bubble though it's.

(30:02):
It's a loving bubble thoughit's.
For me, it's like a.
You can make it a pretty color,pretty pink, white, iridescent.
You're not, it's not a prison.
You're putting them in.
You're putting them in a littlelove bubble, okay.

(30:24):
And you're saying I, I don'tapprove of what you did, but I
can now appreciate where I am inmy life and what it did for me
actually.
And then I like to watch thebubble.
The cord gets cut.
Sometimes it's like my angelscome through with their wings
and cut the bubbles away from me.
Sometimes it's whatever, anyway, and then I watch that bubble
literally go back to what Ienvision as God.
So basically, I'm saying you'reno longer on my path, you're no
longer connected to me in anyway.

(30:44):
I don't care what happens toyou now, I'm just sending you
back to God's love to dowhatever you were meant to do
now Right, because you weren'tmeant to be in my life anymore.
I know that and I'mappreciative of the moment.
It sounds weird to say Iappreciate what you did, but I
appreciate what it did for me.
What it did for me and made mewho I am.

(31:05):
And now and I just usuallywatch that bubble and it's very
important during that we don'twish them harm.
It is, this is not a harmfulthing.
You actually need to feel thembeing absorbed into God's love
again.
Then you're done with it,because that was part of my
healing journey too.
So I love that you're usingthis bubble thing.

(31:26):
I've never brought anybody intomy bubble, so I'll have to try
bringing them into my bubble.
I typically make them stay intheir own bubble.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Hillary, and that is what I had done for years.
My parents they were hippies,so I was introduced to
Transcendental Meditation when Iwas eight, so bless them for
that.
They were on a spiritualjourney.
My mom is one of the biggestspiritual seekers I've ever
known.
Ultimately, I think part of thestruggle for her is that she

(31:54):
has always looked for herconnection on the outside of
herself and what I learned in mymoments connected was that it
absolutely is inside of us, alsoall around us.
But it is easier for me, evenwith the things I've been
through, to recognize that Ihave to visualize that light

(32:15):
coming into myself in order toreally connect to it.
I would love it if I could findit on the inside of myself.
All the time I'm not thatenlightened.
I have to try to pull it infrom the outside.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
And you're bizarre.
That's why we're here.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
That's why we're here Exactly.
If I figure that one out, I'llprobably die the next day or
five minutes later.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
So you, blessed with a son, and he had a spiritual
connection from like a veryyoung age, always did Like he
was right there with them too.
For you he was three years old,saying do you remember when I
was a girl named Sarah?
He kind of remembered pastlives.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
He did and what else?

Speaker 1 (32:54):
did he have going on?

Speaker 2 (32:56):
He walked past me one day.
I was in the kitchen and saidwhoa, and he was five and I go
what he goes.
You were just an Indian womanwashing dishes in a sink and I
was like that's weird.
I don't know what else I'mgoing to say, because I didn't.
I was only 23 and 25 at thattime, so I was not.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
You weren't in the hot ready.
You had felt this allencompassing love, and angels
had wrapped their arms aroundyou.
That but you weren't.
You hadn't wrapped your brainaround all that yet.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Correct, and I still haven't wrapped my head around
all that.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
In your book.
You were talking to Gus.
You said, gus, I formallydeclined reincarnation.
Like you were like listen, I'vedone enough, enough in this
lifetime.
I don't think I need to do thisagain.
Yeah, and I definitely don'twant to like no, yeah, I'm over
it, but you know you're over itwell, and guys, read the book,

(33:54):
you'll see why she feels over it.
This feel, yeah, do you feellike maybe this is your last
time at?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
this well also also remember I have been connected
to the divine.
I know how spectacular that is.
Like this pales in comparison,it just does.
So I'm not saying life is awful, I'm not saying anything like
that.
Yes, being on this planet isgreat and there are so many fun
things to do and things to seeand ways to be in service and
people to love and whose companywe can all enjoy.

(34:23):
Like that's all true and otherside's pretty great.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I'm just saying and this is just another person
telling us.
You guys, we have nothing tofear with death, you know what
I'm saying.
It's going to be amazing.
Right.
All of the things to fear arehere where we are.
That's right Right now.
Yeah, right now.
Like you said, you don't either.
You've never really felt thatthere was an actual hell either.

(34:48):
Like God is not as punitive assome religions make him.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, god is.
Love is not punitive, like,show me one time that love has
ever punished anything.
Without true love, without theintention of someone learning
something, there may be aconsequence to teach, but when I
was connected I was pure love,so there was no need to teach me

(35:16):
how not to hurt myself oranything else, because I was
love, love doesn't hurt anything, myself or anything else,
because I was love.
Love doesn't hurt anything.
So no, no, no, no, no.
I think the hell, honestly, isthe lack of connection we feel
down here.
That's to me what hell is thatfeels, that feels?

Speaker 1 (35:34):
accurate, right, it feels accurate.
Yeah, okay, all right.
So you've gotten through thischildhood.
You've, you've, you.
You know the angels are near,you, have felt the oneness,
god's love, all of these things.
You're heading into adulthood,right?
You should have it all figuredout?
Nope, there's still going on,you guys, there's still a lot

(35:55):
going on, there's always so muchBecause you struggled with
alcoholism yourself.
Your dad struggled.
Did your mom have any substanceabuse or no?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
No, my mom has abused substances, but mom was not an
addict.
Not an addict though Mom is notan addict to the best of my
knowledge and I can tell youwhat's true for me.
I feel blessed and luckybecause I enjoyed.
I did plenty of partying.
I'm grateful that I'm notsomebody who's ever been
interested in drugs, like, yeah,I've smoked a little pot, I've
tried a ton of stuff because myparents gave it all to me.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
For your 18th birthday.
Someone gave you cocaine.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
A gram and a half of cocaine.
Yes, they did.
And I didn't like it, so I gaveit all away.
I didn't even realize I couldbe arrested for that.
I was hoping I'd get hooked sothat I could be a new customer.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
So you could be a new customer and you were like no,
thank you, I'm going to dispersethis to everyone else, that's
right.
So that was a blast.
That was Gus helping you outthere, too, right, and I drank
normally.
I mean, I lived my life.
Yeah, A lot of people startdrinking their teen years.
Was that when it started?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
or it's not, when it started, I got really drunk with
a boyfriend once and blackedout and was like, oh yeah, I
didn't enjoy that.
And then, you know, I had ababy at 20.
So I was the responsible one.
I was the person who worked twojobs and, you know, was always
the designated driver.
Even in high school I was thedesignated driver.
Like I wasn't.

(37:20):
I was rebelling against myparents, but also learning from
what I saw with my parents.
It's not who I wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Because the father of your son also had addiction.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, he did Because we gravitate towards what we're
familiar with, even if it'suncomfortable, right.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
And we talked about like, and things repeat
themselves.
Yeah, there's a cycle, you'redifferent.
Yeah, yeah, there's a cycle,you're different.
So when exactly?
Okay, obviously you were analcoholic long before you
realized you were an alcoholic,which is typically the case,
yeah, so when did you get to thepoint?

(37:56):
What happened that made youknow I'm an alcoholic?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
So, again, I drank pretty normally Now.
Granted, I was raised byhippies, so my bar for normal
might be a little different.
My husband is definitely a verynormal drinker, but I also know
a lot of people that aren'talcoholics that can be pretty
healthy partiers.

(38:20):
That said, when I noticed thechange for me was when I hit
menopause.
I truly believe, and it'sdocumented, that there is a
correlation between the hormonechange and women particularly
losing control of their drinking.
We call it the invisible linein AA.
You know, having two drinks andhaving that be fine to.

(38:40):
Suddenly now I want threedrinks regularly.
It was about 48.
And then now I'm getting realsneaky about my drinking and I'm
hiding booze.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So this is midlife.
This was not a oh.
I've been drinking since I was20 like this.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
No, no no, no, no, it really wasn't.
It's a hard one for people towrap their heads around, but
people like my family wasshocked when I said I was an
alcoholic.
They could not believe becausethat's just not who.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
I'd ever been.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Well, I, I was, I was no, because my hiding it didn't
start happening until I was,like I said, 48.
That's really when.
And I got married and myhusband, no, it was 49 when I
started hiding it, cause I gotmarried just a month before I
turned 49.
So, yeah, it just hit me hardand fast.

(39:29):
I went down hard.
I drank a lot, a lot, like a750 milliliter bottle of vodka a
day by the time I was donedrinking A day.
By the time I was done drinking,yeah, when I went into the
hospital, I had a blood alcohollevel of 0.41, which is
ridiculous.
And I remember it, and thedoctor said you should be dead

(39:52):
or in a coma and I was likeyou're a dick, it's jerking away
.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah, you were like I don't like you.
Yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
You're kind of a jerk .
I'm a fan of this guy, exactlyso.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
I kind of thought it was fine, right, you were
functioning.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I knew it wasn't fine by the time I wound up at the
emergency room.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
I knew I was in trouble, but when you were
sneaking alcohol when you wereworking and you were because you
had said in the book likeSometimes you'd have to take
vodka in the morning, just soyour hand wouldn't tremor to put
your fake lashes on.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Girl.
Yes, False eyelashes every day.
The point where I can't hold myhands steady enough to get my
eyelashes on shit has gonesideways.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
That's how I know it was bad and so your solution was
you knew that was a detox, thatwas something happening,
because you needed vodka.
Yeah, I needed to take a shotin order to get straight.
Yeah, and you got to the pointwhere, if you were working too
long during the network, youwould have to go to a new store.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, super conveniently located next door
to a liquor store, which wasgreat, but then I had to do
rounds because I couldn't keepgoing to the same liquor store
because I didn't want them toknow how much I was drinking.
So I had like four liquorstores in a rotation so nobody
would.
And then I would buy vodka fromCostco because I could get a
giant bottle and a funnel andput it in the smaller bottle so

(41:10):
I could strategically hide those.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Nobody was questioning you.
It's Costco.
We buy in bulk.
There's no way to buy at Costco.
So that made it OK.
So you knew.
Though you knew, obviouslybecause you were hiding.
At that point you were startingto hide the habit.
You knew it was not good foryou, right, but again, that's
addiction.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, it was addiction.
I knew it wasn't good for meand I couldn't stop and I kept
trying.
I would tell myself everymorning I'm not going to drink
tonight.
And then tonight it'd rollaround and I'd be like, ah, I'll
just have one.
All right, I'll just have one.
All right, I'll just have two.
You know what?
I've already had two.
I may as well have three.
I'm going to start my diet.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Monday.
Exactly, or I'm just going tostart the damn diet Monday, and
by Tuesday I'm going to startthe next one.
Right, exactly, it's the sametype of thing.
Okay, so you find yourself inthe hospital and you're pretty
sick.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
And they then tell you've done a little number on
your liver.
Hillary, right, they didn't knowwhat I'd done to my liver
because nobody knew I was analcoholic, including my husband,
my sister, nobody.
So when I landed in thehospital and they came in and
told me that I needed a livertransplant or I was going to die
, it was pretty shocking for allof us was going to die.

(42:25):
It was pretty shocking for allof us and thank God.
I spent a month in the hospitaland there's a thing called a
MELD score stands for Model forEnd Stage Liver Disease.
You get put on the livertransplant list when your MELD
score is 15.
When I got to the hospital,mine was already at 18.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
If you're a type B blood type.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
It's different for different blood types.
Oh, you were there.
If you're a type B blood type,it's different for different
blood types, but a type B, youget the transplant the earliest,
which would have been at 26,.
The mild score of 26.
I got all the way up to 25.
And then I got transferred toUCSF and they detoxed me off
everything that Kaiser had hadme on, and the minute they did
my liver got better and withinthree days it had gone down to

(43:01):
20.
And they sent me home afterliterally four weeks being in
the hospital on the highestpossible doses of Dilaudid and
Ativan you can have at KaiserUCSF.
Cold turkey detoxed me offeverything and then sent me home
.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
That looked bad.
Cold turkey oh it was awful.
It was awful.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
It was awful and I had to sign all this paperwork
saying that I wouldn't drinkalcohol, I wouldn't smoke pot, I
wouldn't take anyover-the-counter medications.
If I got a cold, I wouldn'tlike it didn't matter.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
No, because if you guys are at home to be on the
list to get a liver transplant,you have to prove you haven't
had, prove you've been sober forat least a year.
That is correct.
Even if a liver transplantcomes up, you're not getting it
until you prove you're going totake care of the new liver.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
That's correct and that's fair, because there's
17,000 people a year who need aliver transplant and only 5,000
who get them.
So a lot of people are dyingbecause they couldn't get a
liver transplant.
So they're not going to wasteone on somebody who's just going
to foul up, no.
So I thought, of all of thesepapers I was signing, that the
one thing that was going to be aproblem for me was going to be

(44:13):
salt, because I love to cook andnow I can't drink.
I can't do anything else.
Now they're telling you no salt,no salt.
And I was like you people arecrazy, I'm never doing that.
So two months later, rightbefore Christmas, they put me on
a whole bunch of differentmedications, obviously because
of my liver.
Well, I was allergic tosomething, and one of them made
it so that the bottoms of myfeet hurt so bad it couldn't

(44:36):
walk.
And I kept calling UCF sayingthis is not right, and they
understandably believed that Iwas just being an addict who
wanted pain medication, and thatactually wasn't the case.
I really did just want them tofigure out what was making my
feet hurt, and they wouldn't doit.
So then I decided I was finewith just dying Like I've been
dead.
It's pretty great, this is notgreat.

(44:57):
I'm out of here.
And I started drinking againand I immediately was back up to
a 750 milliliter bottle, so tobe clear.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
you took those 35 pills and said I'm done, I'm not
taking this stuff anymore.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I stopped taking all of them at once.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
I had to go back to drinking, and really with the
intention of dying.
You were suicidal at that point.
I was, and you had decidedscrew it.
You've already felt what it'slike on the other side.
It's amazing.
And you were like I'm callingit.
And then what happened?

Speaker 2 (45:29):
So what happened was, first of all, never stop taking
all of the medications at once,especially when some of them
are psych meds, because that'swhat they put you on when they
know that you are going to bedepressed because you need a
liver transplant.
Like it, you are going to bedepressed because you need a
liver transplant, like it'spretty logical going to happen.
So, yeah, don't ever do that.
I did that, got super depressed, wanted to die, went back to

(45:52):
drinking and then Christmas dayrolled around and my son came
and spent the night on ChristmasEve and I woke up in the
Christmas morning and my husbandhad got us both all these
lovely gifts and I got to makeeggs Benedict for my son
Christmas day and I had such anice Christmas that I went oh, I
think I wanted to.
I think I want more Christmaseswith my son.
I want to do this I want to,yeah.

(46:12):
And then I couldn't stop.
And so by New Year's Eve I wasmiserable and sitting in the bed
with the curtains drawnwatching Netflix.
And my husband came home fromwork and I just came clean.
I said because he didn't evenrealize I'd gone back to
drinking Everybody thought itwas just because I'd been on so
many meds.
I wasn't right in my headanyway.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
So being drunk?
So strange behavior had plentyof reasons.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Right, exactly so.
My husband was amazing about it.
I tried to detox myself thattime.
I went from drinking vodka towine two bottles of wine a day,
then one and a half bottles ofwine and I managed to wean
myself off the booze.
But I was miserable, becausewhen you're an alcoholic, you
can either control your drinkingor enjoy your drinking, but you
can't do both, no, so I lasteduntil Valentine's Day, and then

(47:04):
I decided to have a glass ofwine, and then, shortly after
that, it was back to the races.
And then, march 13th 2018, Ifinally realized I was in big
trouble.
I dropped to my knees on March12th, sobbing and said to the
divine, I cannot do this myself,I need help.
You got to do something.
I cannot do this myself, I needhelp.
You got to do something.
And the next morning, myhusband woke up and called the

(47:25):
AA hotline and two days later,and took me to two AA meetings
with that.
I was absolutely hammered forAA meetings.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
People in.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
AA were so great, they were so nice to me, in
spite of myself.
And then that Monday I wentinto the hospital, the ER, and
the next day I was in rehabrehab and I've been clean and
sober ever since.
So and I'm grateful.
The thing is that I got backbecause one of the things about
being in so in your cups, as wecall it when you're drinking,

(47:56):
you lose all connection you haveto a power greater than
yourself.
Your sense of the divinedisappears because you're too
obsessed and too busy dampeningall of your emotions that you
can't feel the divine anymore.
So, getting sober andreconnecting to this power
greater than myself one of thebest things that has happened

(48:18):
ever, because I was so much moreclear headed and so much more
clear on what my intention was,which is to feel that connection
again.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
So you were able to reunite, with that oneness, that
divine, with Gus.
I was reunited with Gus, yeah,and that never left.
That's what's always there, butyou just weren't connecting the
same way I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
I'd had myself convinced that the divine was
kind of like my dog loved mecompletely, could show me where
the treats were, but had noopposable thumbs and couldn't
really do much for me.
And that's insane, right,because the divine is limitless.
It can do all kinds of things.
As I put in my book.
It's done so many.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
She's a lot of an example.
You guys, all the way down tohelping her find an Apple Watch,
your intuition kept telling yougo home, you'll lose this watch
that you had just bought foryour husband.
Go home, go home.
And you were like I just need alittle retail therapy real
quick.
I just need to stop over at thestore and try on some earrings,
okay.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
It was more than my intuition, jen.
It was Gus, like I.
Literally.
It was like somebody wasscreaming in my ear go home,
you're going to lose your watch.
And I ignored it and ithappened three times like almost
a voice.
If it had been any louder itwould have been actual words in
my ear.
I just ignored it because Iwanted to go shopping and then

(49:40):
you know at home and that thatwatch with my watch.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to watch you in a long time.
You had to.
She re-bought the watch youguys, she all of the things she
said.
Okay, I guess I'm not findingit after calling the store daily
, like did anyone turn it in?
Did anyone turn it in formonths?
And so then, all of a sudden,you thought you'd just give Gus
a little, a little way to provehimself and you were like, yeah,

(50:05):
so I was talking to.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Well, I was talking to a group of friends and we
were talking about my connectionto Gus and somebody said you
have a great relationship withyour higher power.
And I said, yeah, well, if itliked me that much, it'd bring
back my watch and I'd reallybeaten myself up for having lost
it when I got such a clearmessage it was going to happen,
uh-huh.
So everybody had heard what adummy I was and the next morning

(50:27):
I woke up and Nordstrom calledand said did you lose something
here?
And I was like, well, yeah, twoand a half months ago.
And she said can you tell mewhat it was?
And I'm like, yeah, it was anApple Watch and a charger.
And she said, well, it's here.
Like, yeah, it was an AppleWatch and a charger.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
And she said well, it's here they found.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
what the safe you guys I said how did it end up
there?
She goes, I don't know.
We just found it in the safethis morning and I literally
asked them to check the safemultiple times every day for a
week, like okay, you were justjoking around with your friends,
if Gus loved me so much.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
And then the next day there's your Apple Watch.
That's Gus saying okay, girl,listen, I do love you that much.
Here's your damn watch.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
It's like the time I was on a diet and I was really
struggling to be good.
I'd lost 16 pounds on WeightWatchers, but the holidays
rolled around and I was justtrying to get to eat some food
that tasted good instead oftrying to watch everything I put
in my face and I just wasn'tbeing good and I said, gus, I
really, really don't want togain my weight back, but I do

(51:30):
not even want to shop for foodthat's good for me.
I need help.
And that day my husband comeshome from work and he says your
groceries are on the porch.
I don't know why he gets supergrumpy.
When I order online groceries,I almost never do it and I was
like I didn't order anygroceries.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
You can order yourself and get groceries.
Yeah, no, we get easy now, wejust order it.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Well, I don't usually but and I didn't this time
either, ironically and I said Ididn't order any groceries.
He said, well, they're on theirporch.
And I go out and there's fivebags partially full bags of
groceries sitting on the porchwith no name on them.
There's a tag with a number onit, so I call Whole Foods, which
is where they came from.
I said I got somebody else'sgroceries.
She said, well, amazon deliversthose.

(52:15):
We have no way of trackingwhere they belong.
And I was like, well, what do Ido?
And she said, well, I guess youjust Merry Christmas, they're
your groceries.
Now Whoever bought them willget a new order.
And so I left them on the porchfor like a half hour because I
wanted in case somebody camelooking for them.
But then I realized there mightbe ice cream in there, so I had
to unpack them.
There was not ice cream inthere, but what there was in

(52:35):
there was salmon and ground beefand so much fresh fruit, fresh
vegetables, a bottle ofdistilled water.
There was even a full peppergrinder and I just ran out of
pepper.
The only thing in those bagsthat was not good for me was a
bar of dark chocolate withtoffee and pretzels in it.

(52:56):
And that was only three points,for a quarter of it on Weight
Watchers Like Gus, so bad.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
You were counting the points as you went through the
basket.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
I made a very specific request, like I don't
even want to shop for this stuff, and Gus was like I got you,
I'll send you some damngroceries.
Yeah, it was crazy just crazy Iget, and I think it's true for
everybody.
People get so much more takencare of than they think they are
.
But most of us aren't lookingfor it.
Most of us, when good thingshappen, just may have gratitude,

(53:30):
but we write it off as acoincidence, or I'm sure you've
been taught like you payattention you see, the more I
see you, oh, I get it becausesometimes things happen and I'll
see the 11 angel numbers.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
They're different things, you're like, all right,
yeah, you're here, you'rehelping me out, I love it.
So, all right, you guys, you'regonna have to read the book,
because we've barely touched onwhat this sweet woman has gone
through but it's not about whatI've gone through so much as how
I found my relationship with myhigher power.
This is what I want to get tonow so you can read about that.

(54:07):
But I want to talk just brieflyhere about how this has helped
you heal.
Right that, finding that,that's the key, because, yeah,
you got.
I want you guys to relate withHillary because you've been
through your stuff like she'sbeen through hers, but that's
not the point.
The point is what coming out ofthat does.
How do we heal, how do we getbetter?

(54:29):
How do we connect with ourhigher power, better, stay on
the right path, blah, blah, blah.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe healing process for you.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
So I think there's a few things.
One is that I did do 30 yearsof regular therapy and I do
believe that helped a lot.
I was really clear that Iwasn't going to let somebody
molesting me as a kid take awaymy sexuality and my ability to
enjoy it.
So I worked hard on that.

(55:01):
I did seven years of therapy,three times a week, going to
incest survivor groups andothers.
It's a long story.
We've been doing the work for along time.
Yeah, carl was not the onlyperson who hurt when I was a kid
.
That said, I did the work there.
But probably the two mosthealing things I've ever done

(55:23):
that have connected me with ahigher power one was working the
12 steps of AA, which.
Those 12 steps work foreverybody.
Whether you're sober or not,everybody's pretty much got some
vice that they wish they couldget rid of.
And the 12 steps.
Whether you eat too much, drinktoo much, smoke too much, swear

(55:44):
too much, it doesn't matter.
Whatever it is you're trying tostop doing.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
I don't like the 12 steps to stop my sugar addiction
, right?
Yes, so seriously, I know.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yes, yeah, I hear you .

Speaker 1 (55:55):
It is.
So the 12 steps are foreveryone, so if you're out,
there and you're powerful.
You're like I don't need the 12steps.
I don't do drugs, I'm not analcoholic.
Okay, you could still workthose steps and benefit for sure
, Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I've read the book too, and for sure, yeah, for
sure they work and then.
So probably the most healingthing I've ever done for myself
is writing my memoirs.
And the reason it did isbecause, so, as you know, some
of these stories were difficultto relay, they were difficult to
live through, they can even bea little difficult to read,
because I'm very honest aboutwhat happened.

(56:27):
I don't pull any punches and Idon't try to sugarcoat anything.
That said, the first time Iwrote it, I ate a lot of cookies
because sugar is also one of myaddictions.
Now I ate a lot of cookies andI tried to stuff my feelings as
I'm processing through the stuffto the best of my ability.
And then I had to edit thosestories and there were less

(56:49):
cookies, still cookies.
And then I sent my book tosomeone else to edit, and on the
third round of edits, what sherequired me to do was tell more
of the story which was hardbecause I didn't want to and
also add in other people'sperspectives.
What happened was I was forcedto see things more from my

(57:11):
sister's perspective, mymother's perspective, my
father's perspective, and by thefourth round of edits on this
book, I had become the observerin the story and because of that
, my judgment of other people'sbehaviors in the story and my
own behavior in the storyshifted and I was able to see it

(57:33):
objectively and lose anyresidual anger or resentment
that had been left behind anyresidual anger or resentment
that had been left behind, and Ifreed myself of this shit that
I thought I'd gotten rid ofyears ago through all my talk
therapy.
Anything that was lingering wasgone, and the proof of that

(57:54):
really came in the final storyin the book where I went back to
the town I'd grown up in that Inever wanted to go back to
because the time when I, youknow, 30 years ago, when I
visited it, I got so sick Iended up in the hospital because
my body just didn't want to bethere, and when I went back, all
of the stuff, it was just aplace I'd lost all of the energy

(58:16):
that I had on it that washolding me back, that I didn't
even know was there.
So the process of writing out,looking back, recognizing where
the hand of the divine wasthroughout the story, interwoven
in these stories that seemawful because there's awful
there, also had this good in ittoo.

(58:37):
Yes, it had this beautiful, youknow education and connection,
and thus it just had thedivine's hand in it, like, even
if things were hard, I was neveralone.
It wasn't that I was goingthrough it all by myself.
Just most of the time we can'ttell when the divine is right

(58:58):
next to us, lifting us up.
It's like that old thing peopletalk about.
You see one set of footprints inthe sand and that's because
that's when God is carrying you,right, carrying you.
Yes, yeah, yeah, I could seewhere I was carried.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
And so do you feel like sharing your stories, and
this is for everyone out there.
Listening, who has their ownstory inside too, has been more
freeing than holding it allinside, because holding it can
make us ill, physically,mentally, emotionally ill.
So, sharing your story becauseyour story, it feels unique to

(59:33):
you.
But guess what?
No, we are all going throughthis.
There's somebody who's beenthrough the same things you've
been through For sure.
Absolutely yeah, because evenreading through the book for me,
some of the sections I was like, oh, I know exactly what she
was feeling, I know exactly whatwas happening at that point in
her life.
Right, and those are theconnections we make.

(59:53):
Our stories don't have to bethe same, right, but we're
experiencing the same feelingsand the same need to connect
with the divine and each other.
In a book for some people outthere, maybe you're not going to
write a whole book about yourthings, maybe you're just
journaling for yourself.
Maybe you just start sharingthe stories with the people
closest to you.

(01:00:13):
Do you have suggestions forwhat you've seen work for others
or for you?
As far as opening, sharing,because a lot of us think we
healed our wounds.
I did the same thing, went totherapy every decade.
Oh, it's healed, now it's allbetter.
And then all of a sudden, itjust breaks back open.
You thought you sewed it up.
It was a damn Band-Aid Right,and so would you have any other

(01:00:35):
suggestions for how people maybe on a healing journey right
now?
Can do that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Yeah, I do so.
I think if you're a writer,write it out.
But don't stop there.
Write it out, take a break aweek, a month, whatever break
you need and then go back andedit it, look at it and then
look at whether or not you'reseeing all the perspectives,
because it's really easy to stayin our self-righteous place of

(01:01:05):
how we were impacted.
It is really hard to look atwhy other people behaved the way
they did, what was going onwith them.
But that is the rest of thestory, and when you can see the
whole story, the bigger pictureof it, you stop being a victim
and you start to be a character,and that is super freeing,

(01:01:28):
because I hate being a victim.
I feel so powerless when I'm avictim, but I am empowered when
I can go oh, this happened andhere's what I learned from it
and here's where the divine waswith me during it.
That shifts the dynamic frombeing someone who was abused to
someone who has survived abuse,someone who has thrived as a

(01:01:51):
result.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
You kind of reconciled the relationship with
your parents too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Correct.
Yeah, and ironically my momstopped speaking to me.
She was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
she already wrote this book oh my God, was she mad
Called me she was trying tothrow this book.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Oh my God, was she mad?
Called me a liar.
I'm making it all up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Because her story she's only seeing it from her
perspective.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
She hasn't looked at it from all the other, and it
takes a lot of strength andbravery to look at it from other
angles.
That's probably the hardestpart is to say what part did I
have Right or what was going onin their life that made them act
that way?
There you go.
What do I not understand?

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah, because sometimes our part, especially
when we're little kids, is thatwe were there and we don't have
fault, even though sometimes wethought we had fault.
We don't have fault but we alsohave to get to this age to look

(01:02:55):
back and go.
Oh, like all of these thingswere going on book on the 26th
of July, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
A minute Fair.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Yeah, it took a minute.
She finally got here, so I wasgoing to say so writing.
I think if you're a writer,that is a great way to heal a
lot of things.
I can say I'm seeing a lot ofdepression right now.
There's a lot of people thatare really struggling because
there's a lot of hard stuff inthe world, and what seems to be
true is one of the things Ilearned along the way is that

(01:03:28):
our creativity is Gus's way ofexpressing itself through us.
So you don't have to be a greatpainter to paint.
You don't have to be a greatchef to cook to paint.
You don't have to be a greatchef to cook.
But when you do take thosecreative juices and put them out
there, depression tends tolessen.
I'm not saying it's going totake it away completely, so I

(01:03:51):
just wanted to take a minute toencourage people that if you're
struggling, find a creativeoutlet.
It doesn't matter what it is,if it's dance, if it's music, if
it's cooking, if it's cakedecorating, it doesn't.
It really doesn't matter whatthing you like to do, if it's
just playing with your, you know, dress up with your kids,
whatever that thing is To findsomething that you enjoy.

(01:04:13):
Do more of that, but that,believe it or not, is
essentially pulling in divinelight through the top of your
head and down to the bottom ofyour toes.
When you're being creative, youare connecting to the divine
more than most people realize.
It is a direct channel, so Iencourage folks that are feeling

(01:04:35):
down.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Yeah, and starting and wanting to connect with
whatever you could, with Gus,god, source, the divine,
whatever it is that you'retrying to feel connected with,
because you're not alone.
We've established that here.
You might feel alone right now,but you are not alone.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
You are not always surrounded by your angels.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Gus, you've got a team, a team, a team that's
right there waiting for you, soyou are not alone.
So it is easy.
That's a way to connect,because we've heard that from a
lot of people Like follow yourpassion, what makes you feel
good inside.
Do more of that.
Yes, that's how you find it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
That's how you find it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Yeah, you have a near-death experience, like you
did, to feel it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
You can still get to that oneness and your creativity
does not have to make you moneyand you don't have to be great
at it.
Those are two lies that we tellourselves.
If you're an artist, if you'renot making money somehow, you're
not really an artist.
Oh, that's not true.
And that that if you can'tcrayons, and a adult coloring
book, that's yeah who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
exactly.
You'll feel better if you do it.
Yeah, um, connect to yourcreativity.
You won't be sorry.
You did now and then.
I was just going to tell aquick story because I I love
this story and I I think itreminds people that angels are
everywhere and you don't knowwho they're going to be.

(01:06:01):
So when I was I own a hairsalon and when I was building
out the salon, I was stillworking full time somewhere else
.
I was trying to build my salonmy son had taken off for two
weeks.
He was 17.
He was doing his own journeyand he was angry and would not
tell me where he was, and it wasawful.

(01:06:23):
I was probably the most stressedI've ever been and a friend of
mine invited me to dinner and sowe went to dinner at the
seafood restaurant in Berkeleyand I smoked cigarettes at the
time and I didn't eat because Ihad eating disorders.
But I didn't eat when I wasstressed, so I wasn't really
hungry and I ordered a seafoodpasta because I knew that was my

(01:06:44):
son's favorite and I knew Iwould have leftovers.
So when we were done, my friendwas sweet and he was paying the
check and I went outside tohave a cigarette.
And as I'm standing theresmoking my cigarette, I look
over and there's this homelessman I assume homeless man
standing there and he was thistall black man with these just
piercing yellow-brown eyes andsuch a handsome face.

(01:07:08):
But he's wearing these pantsthat are frayed at the bottom
and a jacket that's dirty andstained.
And he starts walking towardsme and I started to reach into
my purse and he said hello, miss.
No, no, I want that.
And he pointed at my to-go boxand I said no, I'm sorry, I

(01:07:30):
can't give you this, it's for myson.
And he got closer to me than I'mcomfortable with, but nothing
in my intuition told me thatthis man was dangerous and I've
got pretty good radar for that.
So as he got closer he bentdown and I looked down and he
bent down and he caught my eyeand he said I see your pain.
And then I'm trying even hardernot to let him see me, because

(01:07:51):
now my eyes fill with tearsbecause I am not used to people
calling me out on that.
But he said the problem isnever as great as the worry.
And it stopped me in my tracksbecause I knew it was true, down
to the core of my being.
And then he pointed at my boxagain and I looked at it and I

(01:08:15):
really, really I said it's formy son.
And he just looked at me and II handed the box to him.
Oh no, first I tried to givehim $5.
I tried to give him $5.
Like here you can buy somethingelse.
And he said I don't, I don'twant your money.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
I want that.
She did that pasta for $5.
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
And but he, no, it was in the box, and so I handed
it to him and I went home thatnight and two days, three days
later, I woke up in the morningand I went to go outside to have
a cigarette and my son wassleeping on the porch when he
came home.
And so that was great.
And the thing is that pastawould have spoiled.

(01:08:54):
Yeah, it was meant to go to thatman and he was meant to say
those words to you to this day,I have comforted, I've gotten
myself through tax audits,breakups, alcoholism, like so
many different chromatic moments.
With the words, the problem isnever as great as the word.
I know that that homeless blackman with beautiful yellow brown

(01:09:21):
eyes was an angel, becauseangels are everywhere and they
show up in people that you donot expect, and sometimes they
just show up in a person for aminute and then leave.
But keep your eyes open,because angels are everywhere.
There's so many more of themthan we realized and the more we
look for them, the more we'regoing to see them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Yes, we just have to be open to all of these things.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Yeah, it's all about remembering that Gus is
everywhere.
This is right along.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
So this is at the very end of your book.
Okay, let me read one moreexcerpt here for you guys.
So it says this world is hardand seems to be getting scarier
every day.
I can't explain why so muchawfulness can continue on this
planet when my higher power canretrieve an eyewatch and warn me
against an attack.
I want to believe that there issome kind of divine plan, but

(01:10:15):
maybe we're all just playing inthe equivalent of the divine
backyard and the worst thingthat can happen to us is that we
end up back inside the greatuniversal sanctuary without a
body, but with a greaterunderstanding of what it all
means.
And that, for me, summed it allup a little bit the whole book,
because it was like no, that'strue, we worry, we worry, worry,

(01:10:37):
worry and, like you said, theworry is greater than the
problem.
We worry, worry, worry and,like you said, the worry is
greater than the problem.
We worry, worry, worry.
When really we're going tolearn these lessons, we're going
to return back to that oneness,to God's divine love, just
having learned the lessons weneeded to.
It's all going to be fine.
We don't have to worry as muchas we're worrying.
We need to just trust.
We need to just trust good oldGus that he's got our back, and

(01:11:00):
so do the angels, and we tap inand, like you said, we follow
our passions, we be ourauthentic selves, like we were
meant to be, and then, when thislife ends, we're going to head
back to the most beautiful,beautiful, beautiful love and
light, and then we'll figure outwhat's next.
You've already told Gus you'renot coming back.
But I'm not coming back, butI'm not coming back.

(01:11:23):
She's going back there, you'regoing back there and maybe he's.
Maybe you're going to get setsomewhere else.
We don't even know.
We don't know what's all goingon out there, but right now, all
we have to know is that we'rehere for a reason.
Follow our path, our passion,look for Gus, be kind to others.
Right, the best we can.
It's all going to be fine, andlove is always the answer.

(01:11:45):
And love is always the answer.
And love is not always the easyanswer.
No, it's often not the easyanswer.
Love is always the answer, andthat's really what God's trying
to get us to figure out.
Right, love is the answer, notall this craziness we have going
on.
And that doesn't mean letpeople get away with their shit.
That's not what we're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Because that's not loving yourself.
Like if we're letting peopleget away with things, then
someone's not getting loved inthat scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Then it's us when we let people do those things to us
.
Right, but we don't need topurposely be horrible to other
people.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Exactly, and if you do, it's okay, forgive yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
You got to forgive yourself and do better, but just
do better next time.
Yeah, keep trying.
Say we're sorry.
All of the good things Own yourshit If there's anything new
going on.
What's next in Hillary world?
Yeah, I wish I could tell you,but I have.
Are you kind of in that spotwhere we're at sometimes, where
it's like just gonna wait andsee what comes next?

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
I'm having fun seeing what's happening with this book
here's.
I think meeting you, jen, is aperfect example of Gus, because
I, you and I, had never heard ofeach other ever, and how did
you find my book?

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Listen, I was trying to think about that I think you
may have asked me that andhere's what happens a lot for me
, because I am guided a lot bymy intuition now too and just
gut feelings and signs and allthese things.
So sometimes I will be, let'ssay, listening to a podcast Okay
, someone's podcast and there'llbe an author on talking about a
book or whatever.
So I'll be like, oh, I think Iwant to read that book, so I

(01:13:23):
will go order their book.
And then you know, like youorder a book, and then there's a
bunch of similar suggestedbooks underneath it, Like you
know, whatever I'm thinking,this is how we linked, because I
felt like then sometimes I seethose suggestions and one will
just stand out to me and I'll belike, add that one to the cart

(01:13:43):
too.
And sometimes I'll forget aboutthem.
And then they'll show up fromAmazon, whether I pre-ordered or
ordered, and I'll be likethat's right, I want to read
that book, and so I think that'swhat happened.
It was just a series of eventsthat led me to your book,
because you don't have some hugecampaign going on right, you
don't have.

(01:14:03):
Oprah right now showing yourbook.
But your book, it will find theright people.
This is what I believe.
Whether it's a book, a podcast,it doesn't matter what you're
doing, it will find the rightpeople.
You'll find the right people,right, that you're meant to
connect with.
So it's going to be exciting,yeah, as things grow with the

(01:14:25):
book.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
And knowing that it's helping people, knowing that
it's helping people that havebeen sexually assaulted,
sexually abused, that need toknow that they're not alone and
that you can work through it andeven find forgiveness for
yourself and for the people thathave hurt you, People that have
been through alcoholism.
I'm really raw and honest aboutwhat my story is in there, in a
way that has shocked a lot ofpeople but has also helped a lot

(01:14:49):
of people.
You know, just telling thetruth about what it's like to
have a father who is bipolar,with schizophrenic tendencies,
and a mother that was extremelycodependent about it Like
putting all of the real outthere for people to relate to is
great You're not sugarcoatinganything in this book.
I try not to sugarcoat anything,but also being equally as

(01:15:15):
willing to admit that my faithis based on my experience, and
I'm really clear that there is apower greater than myself.
I don't know exactly what itlooks like.
I'm 100% sure it's love.
That I know for sure.
I don't know what else it'scapable of doing, but I bet it's
a whole lot more than the restof us.
What God can do is freakingenormous.

(01:15:44):
So so, yeah, I'm lookingforward to see what happens with
this book and what the goal ofit is, because it may be as
simple as I never know how manypeople it's impacted, and that's
fine too, because I'm moving onto the next project Now.
I always do.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Yeah, you can't just sit and wait.
But that book there may besomeone 10 years from now that
picks up your book and it helpsthem.
It'll outlive you for sure.
This book, right, yeah, isn'tthat cool?
No, that's the beauty of it.
I think about that.
This podcast, too.
I thought someday I'm going tobe gone.
Clearly, right, we're all nothere forever, but somewhat my

(01:16:14):
voice might still be out there,right, like my thoughts and
feelings to everyone.
It can continue.
So I think that's really cool.
So you guys at home, like, thinkof something like that for
yourself, for healing, that youcan do, unless you said it could
be art that you never sell.
It could be like, who knows,write a book, you don't even

(01:16:35):
have to publish it.
You could just write it foryourself, just to heal.
Just to heal, yeah, yeah, leavefor future generations or
whatever.
Yeah, no, I love, I thinkthat's awesome.
Well, helly, this has been veryenlightening and if you're
listening and you're in one ofthose low spots, you can do the
same thing.
None of us special.
You can do the same thingconnected to the divine.

(01:16:55):
Get on your spiritual path,make it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Fine, yeah, read trust and gus.
If I can get through my life,you can get through yours.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
I promise you can always read this book and you're
going to be like, okay, I thinkwe all got this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
I'm so grateful to you.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Thank you so much for reachingout to me.
I feel like I've made a newfriend.
I've so enjoyed thisconversation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
It's funny in, funny in your book too.
I love a book that's seriousand funny at the same time, and
that's that's not an easy thingto write Very serious things and
traumas, but bringing not toomuch light to it but enough
light to it, right, enough lightheartedness, that which doesn't
kill us, gives us a dark senseof humor.
Yes, and I find that the I'llleave it with this.

(01:17:42):
I find that the funniest peoplewith the best sense of humor and
personalities have been througha lot of shit.
Hands down.
All the people who are like notfunny, kind of boring, just
want small talk, have not beenthrough the shit yet.
That's right, haven't had theirturn yet.
The most interesting person inthe room has some stories to
tell.
Yeah, and those are my people.
Those are my people.
Those are my people.
Those are my people too.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
I would love to talk to you outside of this venue
sometime, because you're just ajoy, jen.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Thank you so much.
We have to.
We have to figure it out.
Thanks for being on the show.
This has been fun.
Thanks for having me Listen.
I know your time is valuableand right now I'm feeling super
grateful and totally humbledthat you chose to hang out with
me today.
If this podcast resonates withyou, could you do me a solid and
hit that subscribe or followbutton?

(01:18:28):
That's going to help you outbecause you're never going to
miss an episode, and it helps meout because you're never going
to miss an episode.
And if you have like 30 secondsmore, could you leave a
five-star rating and maybe leavea kick-ass review.
Thank you so much and I can'twait to continue our journey on
the next episode.
Oh, and I can't forget the fineprint.

(01:18:50):
You know the legal jargon.
This podcast is presentedsolely for educational and
entertainment purposes.
We're just two friends on thisjourney together and this
podcast is not intended as asubstitute for the advice of a
physician, professional coach,psychotherapist or any other
qualified professional.
You get it.

(01:19:11):
See you next time.

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