A Handbag History: Monica Botkier’s Tale of Transition and Triumph | Emily Blumenthal & Monica Botkier

In this episode of Handbag Designer 101, we take a nostalgic stroll through handbag history with none other than Monica Botkier, the visionary behind the iconic Trigger Bag and founder of Botkier and Chosen Woven. From her early days sneaking into fashion shows as a rebellious NYC teen to navigating the fast-paced world of accessories, Monica shares her remarkable journey of hustle, heart, and handbags.

Before making her mark in fashion, Monica was an NYU student with a passion for photography and an eye for detail. Her leap from behind the camera to designing one of the most recognizable bags in early-2000s fashion is a story of timing, instinct, and pure creative drive. We explore the high highs and tough lessons learned—from celeb knock-off scandals to evolving with the demands of the digital age.

💼 You’ll learn:
👜 Why Monica’s Trigger Bag became a cult classic and how a signature design can define a brand
🔄 How to pivot and adapt in a constantly changing industry driven by social media and trends
💡 The power of leaning into your origin story and embracing both your creative and business sides
🔐 What it takes to protect your designs in a fast-paced, copycat-heavy fashion landscape
🧵 How Monica built Chosen Woven as a love letter to craftsmanship, storytelling, and reinvention

This candid conversation is packed with real talk, deep insights, and a whole lot of heart. Monica's journey is a testament to resilience, self-belief, and the art of creating with purpose.

🎧 Listen now to hear how Monica turned her NYC hustle into handbag history—and why staying true to your creative voice never goes out of style.

Our Guest: Monica Botkier is a designer, entrepreneur, and founder of both Botkier and her new brand, Chosen Woven. Her designs have been carried by celebrities, stocked in major retailers, and remain beloved staples in the handbag world. She continues to champion originality and craftsmanship in everything she creates.

Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily teaches entrepreneurship at FIT and is dedicated to mentoring the next generation of fashion talent.

Find Handbag Designer 101 merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.
📚 Buy Emily’s Books: Handbag Designer 101 & Savvy Suzanna’s Amazing Adventure

Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner

TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdes

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
As an assistant I got on some high-level shoots and
so the best designer stuff wasthere and I was for some reason
really interested in leatherwork, very inspired by that
stuff, so even uniform and gearand things like that.
I just I liked the way that wasdesigned with function, but
then to elevate it was veryinspiring.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, emilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate

(00:43):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Monica, I'm so excited to have you to the
Handbag Designer 101 podcast.
If there's anyone who should beon this, it's you.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here and I love
that your book is in thebackground there.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
I mean, if you wrote a book, you might as well have
it.
Where's your book?

Speaker 1 (01:09):
My book is actually at my apartment and not on
display here, so I should bringit with you wherever you go,
right?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I only have a few copies left, I think, oh my God,
I still buy my own.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I don't understand how it all works, you know,
because I see that some likeresale quite high for my book
but then it's like, isn't itstill available?
I don't know.
It's one of those things that Idid as a labor of love.
It was a kind of a bookend forthat whole handbag Literal
bookend 20 years in handbags.
I think at that point it was 15years in handbags and I just
wanted to commemorate it bydoing something like that.

(01:43):
And what's the name of yourbook?
It's called Handbags A LoveStory ABC.
Basically it tells you all theI guess collectibles, the little
secrets behind a lot of thedesigner brands.
It really is a nice memory lanething too.
I think that it's a moment intime because handbags become
classics.
But they also commemoratecertain trends and fads and like

(02:06):
it's funny now to see like whatwas 20 years later.
It's there, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
You know what's wild is that?
I mean I've known you for along time but you know, I was
teaching, I was at FIT when KateSpade herself passed away.
And I mean I think you and me,people like us, we remember that
because we know her story, weknow the origin story, how she
got started, the whole thing.
But when I was talking to mystudents and I said, yeah, she

(02:34):
was actually the first one wewere supposed to honor for the
handbag awards, so many of themdidn't even know that Kate Spade
was a person which I know.
But your brand and how do youofficially pronounce your last
name?
Because I've heard it multipleways.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I love that people want to make it French and call
it it is not Bottegier, it isBottegier.
We must preface this by sayingit is my former brand, it is not
my brand.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Correct, correct, but you spawned it.
But the brand is still verymuch around, it's still very
much sold.
And to bookend that about KateSpade, when I was talking to my
students about your brand, how Isaid actually I know the
creator and they said, oh, therewas a creator.
I thought it was just a brandname and I was like, oh God,
years.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
That's what 20 years gets you right.
I know and I remember when Istarted the brand I was toying
with.
Do I call it Monica Batkir orjust Batkir?
But I thought Batkir was verymuch like Gucci or something
right Like it just read well,and I didn't opt for putting my
full name on it, which I'm stillglad to this day, I think.
Aesthetically and just as faras creative direction goes, I

(03:40):
think that was the right move.
It looked good in a logo and itdoes.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
It did, it does Past and present, present and past.
However you want to say it.
No, it's like of that time whenyou started, it was you.
It's like going back to talkingabout, I mean, people like you
and me, like talking about thatera.
It's like, wow, who are the bigbrands?
It was you, it was Minkoff, andthen who are the other brands

(04:07):
that popped up at, thesesolopreneur, female founded
handbag brands?
I mean, I don't think there'sany of them left.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
I mean Kuba.
Remember how big Kuba was?
For a minute, I do.
When Jessica Simpson was the, Ifeel like she put them on the
map, but I could be wrong.
But that was like when realityTV just really started to hit.
Yeah, no, yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Interesting Right.
Just Cuba was sold.
I think Manhattan Portage wassold, like all of those brands
at that point.
Yeah, manhattan Portage.
But when the thefts were goingon in LA, you know with the
celebrity, la thefts were thebling ring.
I know one of your bags wasstolen in one of them because I
heard on the documentary my backhere bag was stolen and I'm

(04:51):
like, oh, what a moment in time.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
You want to know something.
I have a crazy clip from theNew York post.
I think it was like 2004.
Somebody was mugged, and theguy and his girlfriend and I
just remember there was asnippet in there that she didn't
want to give up her bot curebag.
And I was like, oh my God, haveI arrived?
How crazy that was around thetime of like sex in the city.
Yeah, that kind of thing, theywere pulling bags from us.

(05:17):
Yeah, there's a wild ride, youknow literal wild ride.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
So because I know your story so well and really
what this podcast is about ishighlighting the journeys of
what it takes to create a brand,a successful brand the good,
bad and the ugly.
I mean you had a lawsuit tiedinto the Kardashians.
I remember that.
I kept that, I kept thearticles and I was texting you
like, wow, how are you doing?
Because that was a thing.

(05:41):
So I remember going way, way,way back, you know, to our
toddlerhood and handbag land.
You were a photographer, youstumbled upon leathers.
What was the origin story ofall?

Speaker 1 (05:52):
that, yeah.
So my dream, since I wasprobably like 12, was to be a
fashion photographer, and Ithink I was very influenced by
magazines at the time, so I didpursue that path.
I was able to.
Being a New York City kid, Iwent to the specialized junior
high school where I majored inmedia and photography.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Which one?
Mark Twain?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Oh, my God, you made that commute.
Well, I grew up in ManhattanBeach, so it was not a commute,
it was 15 minutes oh my God, youwere one of the lucky ones I
was.
I was Exactly.
But then I went to LaGuardiamusic and art and I did make
that commute to the upper Westside from Manhattan beach.
That was unfortunate, but hey,I didn't know any better back

(06:31):
then and certainly had all theenergy.
But I was an art major there.
I didn't know that I was ableto minor in photography and I
did all these incredible things,like when I was 16, I used to
go to the Suzanne Barsch dragballs that she would have at the
Copacabana once a month and Ihave the most incredible photos
of all the drag queens and Imean these costumes were just so

(06:54):
creative.
It was mind blowing andinspirational.
So New York City at that time.
Could you imagine your daughter?

Speaker 3 (07:00):
doing that now.
No, you know like hey, mom, I'mgoing gonna go to this behind
the scenes of a drag show.
Let me get back to you becauseI'm taking pictures, so don't
worry, it's all good, I mean itis weird.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
You know it is weird.
I mean, my oldest is 18.
Now I guess I could see herdoing it, but I was a junior in
high school at the time and likeme and my best friends would go
and I would take a camera inthere and like develop the film
and yeah.
But I was like getting home at5 am and then like getting ready
for school, you know, rightafter no sleep, but that we did
that once a month.
So it wasn't like at the timewe can handle it, but it was

(07:31):
incredible.
A lot of inspiration everywhere.
A couple of years after that, Iwas like sneaking into the
fashion shows in Bryant Park,like we were able to do that.
Everything was like QR codedand over managed, I guess.
So there's ways to get throughand see things for yourself.
So put it that way.
But I was pursuing.
So I went to NYU.
I pursued a career inphotography.

(07:53):
It was a very fine art basedprogram but there was one
commercial photographer on staffthere faculty and I was able to
go on a couple of shoots withhim and you know, did the whole
thing Cold?
Called the magazines, gotinternships, really looked at
all the aspects of fashion, didyou?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
live at home at the time.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
No, I had an apartment, because at that point
New York wasn't expensive likeit is now.
So I even lived in Manhattan.
So that was amazing.
So I moved out in high school.
My last semester of high schoolI got out of school at noon, so
I got a job and I made reallygood money.
It was funny enough, it waslike this Wall Street job.
It was like typing upconfirmations for trades and
stuff, and I didn't knowanything about what I was doing.

(08:32):
I was just following along, butit was paid really well.
And my friend had moved out shewas 18 already, but I was still
17.
And I convinced my parents I'mgoing to NYU.
What's the big deal?
I'll just live, you know, thelast four months of high school,
and I was such a goody twoshoes, no drugs, no drinking.

(08:52):
I did smoke cigarettes, though,but you know, I went to school,
finished like, did the wholething, and it was great, like
all around.
I got a big independentexperience and New York was so
inspiring.
And, yeah, I just kept pursuingfashion photography, and so
what really led me toaccessories was more being on
set with these amazingaccessories, because as an
assistant, I got on some highlevel shoots and so the best
designer stuff was there and Iwas for some reason really

(09:15):
interested in leather work, veryinspired by that stuff, so even
uniform and gear and thingslike that.
I just I liked the way that wasdesigned with function, but
then to elevate it was veryinspiring.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
At this point, though , as a result of probably you
being so immersed in New Yorkand knowing all these people,
you were able at a young age toget yourself into places where
most people couldn't.
It's not like you had nepotismor anything else.
You were a city kid and thatwas it, so your hustle was there
just purely by default.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, I think so, and I mean, I was definitely a shy
person.
So, to this day, blame me notbeing famous fashion
photographer on the fact that Iwas just not the right
personality for it.
You know, I think I had thetalent and I definitely had the
interest and passion, but Ididn't have the skill set in
terms of like networking andbecoming important to certain

(10:07):
editors.
And, yeah, it was too much of anice girl Like it.
Just I wasn't that interesting.
I guess I don't know You're theoldest right?

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, oldest of two, and your parents were immigrants
, right?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, they were very funny immigrants.
I mean.
I keep hearing immigrantstories where the parents were
like you have to be anaccountant, you have to be a
doctor.
They were definitely not likethat.
They were like just do whatever, follow your passion, Think
about the fact that you have topay your rent, but I don't know.
I would say my mom, inparticular, was very supportive
of the creative process andbeing creative, and she's

(10:40):
creative herself, not in termsof any kind of career, but she
takes great photographs.
She's got great personal style.
She's somebody that appreciatesbeauty.
You were born here, though.
Right, I was born here.
Yeah, okay, it's not typical,because my mom's Polish and my
dad's Russian.
So there are differentimmigration kind of like groups
and worlds here, and I wasn'treally part of any of that, even

(11:10):
though they have friends inboth really.
But yeah, so I don't know, Ijust I guess I kept working
towards the goal of being afashion photographer, but I also
got to see how stylists work.
My first jobs actually werestylist assistant with a guy
that's now a pretty successfulphotographer.
He switched gears and, yeah,just saw all aspects of that
business and, long story short,I was trudging along and
suddenly got really inspired byhandbags.
I personally think it wasbecause of Tom Ford and his

(11:31):
Mombasa bag that he did for YSL.
Yeah, it kicked off, ignited apassion for me that I never knew
I had to that extent, and Iused to go look at them at
Bergdorf Goodman.
They used to have them in theseglass cases.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, it's just like that is the coolest thing I've
ever seen in my life, that bagwith the horn handle, and you
know, I kept the story, jesus, Idon't even know if I was
teaching already.
I feel like I may have been,because I started teaching while
I was still getting my MBA.
It's like a weird story how allthat kind of went down.
But the Mombasa bag is actuallya cautionary tale of editorial

(12:09):
in that they over gifted to toomany editors and this obviously
predated the interwebs andsocial media and all that good
stuff.
But what they had done becausethe gifting to influential
editors which is who, whatinfluencers were at that time
right, because you would givethe editors and then the editors
would hopefully wear it andthen that's where your
testimonials would come from butwhat had happened is they were

(12:31):
part of that whole cycle ofgifting which happens now to
this day, but they over giftedto too many fashion editors, so
it had a massive spike and thedecline was just as fast.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Because so many editors were insulted that they
saw that other lower leveleditors had actually received it
and Bloomingdale's had knockedoff that bag faster than any
other bag.
It's a quote, unquoteaffordable price point.
But that bag to me was likemind blowing.
Like oh my God, it's a hobo.
It's structured, but there's ahorn as a handle.
Like who does that and how canyou?

Speaker 1 (13:02):
get away with that Incredible, and also even just
the type of leather that theyused and it was raw on the
inside.
I bought one.
I actually bought one.
I love to tell you Do you stillhave it?
I don't, I sold it.
I sold it to fund the samplemaking for Bodcare.
Actually, I had a couple ofdesigner bags that I like
somehow scraped together andthen I will tell you just as a

(13:23):
side note, I'm missing a bunchof great bags from my archive.
Like I don't know where theyare and I know I didn't sell
those.
So that's a side note.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
But you know, and your daughters don't have them.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
No, but you know, the other bag that was really
inspiring was the Balenciagayeah, moto, right, they need
that whole story.
And I remember seeing editorswith that one, the first one
that came out, which was asmaller size, and I was so
jealous With the oversizedhardware and everything that
came out.
Even a little later, the firstones were really small and that

(13:54):
was like a $1,500 bag back then.
I remember, any case, I juststarted to really feel for those
designs and I had a best friendwho was a successful model and
she bought the Fendi spy bag andI was like this thing is like
incredible, or maybe somebodybought it for her, I don't
remember, but I don't know.
I started to feel for thesedesigns and then I thought to

(14:19):
myself well, obviously I can'tafford it.
On a photo assistant, and I alsothen transferred into being
like a photography producer whenI made the decision to stop
assisting and start shooting.
I was lucky enough to work withthis incredible group that
produced all these amazingshoots, so I had even more
leeway to kind of talk to otherpeople on set besides the
photographer Right, right, right, right who yelled at you all

(14:40):
the time oh my God, did theyever?
Oh my God, they threw cameras.
It was a really wild time,isn't that amazing.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
There was like no respect for stuff, like I've
seen so many things thrown.
I was working at a handbagmanufacturer.
I saw staplers thrown.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean it's nuts Like none of that stuff you could
get away with now.
No, I mean you'd be totallyostracized and filmed and forget
it.
Plus, I was like one of fiveworking female photographer
assistant.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, exactly, it was a, it was wild.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
She's like I'm keeping my mouth shut and saying
please and thank you, like wow,what a fun you know supposed to
be upset about something youknow, like I had one guy who's a
pretty big photographer and Iwouldn't out him, but he was
kind of like let's date.
And I was like no, and he waslike, okay, I'm not going to
hire you anymore.
And I was like, oh, all rightthen.
Well, I don't like you, so I'mnot going to date you.

(15:29):
I was like all right, I didn'trealize like what a massive
offense I was, but obviouslywith all my friends that were
models, like they took a lot ofshit Thank goodness the industry
out.
But anyways, back to handbags.
So yeah, I got inspired and oneday I'm walking down bleaker
street and there was one ofthese places we make, yeah, and

(15:50):
I was like, oh, so I go in there.
And I was like I have an idea.
And she's like, well, it was aTurkish woman and I had just
come back from Turkey and Greeceand I was like feeling I bought
a Turkish carpet bag.
I like haggled for, I was likefeeling myself and like really
interested in everything.
Actually, I was interested ineverything.
And she was like, no, no, youcan pick from these bag designs

(16:11):
and we have all these differentleathers and we make you a
custom.
And I said how about making mydesign?
Would you do that for me?
And she said yes.
So I went and got a bag madeand then I how much was it?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
It was expensive $300 .
Oh my God, that's nothing.
I mean then it was a lot.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
In 2002, I think it was a lot, yeah, but I don't
know.
Like I said, I wasn't reallygreat with money.
I was spending it on thingsthat I felt were necessary.
I don't know, I don't know whatI was eating back then, but
maybe handbags.
So yeah, I don't know.
I got the bag made and I hadlunch or dinner maybe, with a
friend who was a mensweardesigner and she was like, what
is that bag?
And I was like, oh, I designedit myself, I had it made.

(16:49):
And she was like, listen, I'mdoing the premier class trade
show In Paris, in Paris, make mesamples and let's see what
happens.
And I was like, really, andthen I thought it was going to
cost me, with these people isgoing to cost me a thousand
dollars to make three bags.
Okay, and I didn't knowanything about manufacturers and
the garment center and allthose resources at that time yet

(17:11):
.
And I was like, oh, I was goingto redo my portfolio for
photography that kind of money,exactly.
And I was like, ah, but then Isaid, okay, let me go for it.
So I did it and I literally gother three iterations of the
trigger bag, basically like twohours before her flight.
Very interestingly, this gave mesome confidence because she had
a really good response and oneof the people that responded

(17:36):
wanted my information right awaywas a woman that wound up
working for me as my head ofsales because she was actually
going to open a store in themeatpacking.
This was when meatpackinghadn't been developed yet right,
her store plans fell through soshe wound up actually coming to
work for me, but subsequentlythat was a bit later,
immediately after I'd made thesesamples and got them back I was
kind of like, hey, I've gotsomething here right.
My other friend had a friendwho was a buyer at Barney's but

(17:58):
she was not the accessoriesbuyer, she was also on maternity
leave.
So she said well, have yourfriend send me a package and a
bag and if I like it I'll keepthe bag and give her the contact
info.
And that's what happened.
And I still remember the nameof the buyer Carrie.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Chapman.
Okay, so I have a CarrieChapman story too.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
I don't know what it is right now.
I'm sure I can find out onLinkedIn.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
She's upstate or something, but Carrie was the
first buyer I ever met with mybags and she always took time.
She was always polite and shelooked at my bags and I remember
her saying you should get outof here before anybody else sees
these, because they still needa lot of work.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
So that's funny.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
So she was very like honest and yeah, no, I remember,
because she took the time andthere are very few buyers at
that time.
I mean, it was like Oz, youknow, pulling the curtain and
she was very like this isn'tgoing to work, but here's what
you could do and try this, thisand that.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Well, no, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so funny.
Well, I, very quick, I sent theemail to Carrie and to Julie
Gilhart.
Oh, sent the email to Carrieand to Julie Gilhart, oh my God,
but immediate response.
They were like when can youcome up here?
And I was like, but at thatpoint, for whatever reason, I
had made like 10 bags in somereally great leathers but I was

(19:16):
buying, like you know, one-offskins.
Right, right, right, big cowhides, so I could make a few.
So I don't really know how ithappened.
Where were you buying yourleathers?
Well, I think one of myearliest was Global, and then I
really worked with Libra.
I mean, those were the earlydays, but funny enough, at the
same time I was like, hey, I wasfeeling kind of bullish.
So my friend Jennifer Smith,who I don't also know where she

(19:37):
is these days, but she must havebeen the fashion director of
Lucky- I was just going to sayit was Lucky Magazine Of Lucky.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
I was just going to say it was Lucky Magazine.
Oh, Lucky Magazine.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I had only met her as anassistant, as a photo assistant.
So I said hey, you know, I didlike a four by five shoot, right
.
So I had these crisp photos ofthese and I said, emailed them
to her, like those old littleapples that were just like those
computers.
I remember sitting down on myglass desk like okay, yeah, yeah

(20:05):
, honestly, how I scanned thephoto in I think I had like one
of those flatbed scanners.
Oh my God, it was ridiculous.
But anyway, I said, hey, Ithink I'm going to start a
handbag line.
What do you think she was like?
Come in, like now I went in toCondé Nast.
I actually sold a few handbags,cause you had like you had like
two samples left to show, yeah,basically.

(20:25):
And she put it in the magazine,in the Well story, and all I
had to put there was my phonenumber.
So people were like and thenthe next big press I got almost
immediately was from InStyle,but that was coordinated with an
on-air TV segment, so forget it.
Like I was just inundated.
So it was an incrediblymeteoric rise which, looking

(20:46):
back on it, I didn't know whatwas happening.
I just was really good atkeeping up with shit, like I was
not going to lose one sale.
I was digging I got this color,I've got this size, I'm going
to do this Very soon.
I realized I needed properdesigners on my staff, so I
hired this incredible guy.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
This is wild that you went from an accidental
designer to hiring people that'slike, yeah, I mean because I
wasn't a designer by trade andby no means to diver.
I mean I had moments of luckand I got into good pubs but it
never spawned to.
I mean you had the product toback it up.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I will say I should kind of go back a tiny bit and
say one thing it up, you knowwhat I will say.
I should kind of go back a tinybit and say one thing as soon
as I got interest from Barney's,I went back to that Turkish
lady on Bleeker Street and I waslike give me back whatever
patterns you have.
And she was like trying to notdo that and I said no, you need
to give them back to me becausethese are my design.
So she did, but it took me awhile to get them and you have

(21:41):
to pay for the patterns.
No, really, they were cardboard, they were like bullshit
patterns.
Yeah, but yeah, just I knewenough to do that.
And then I also have to saythat as soon as there was some
interest, like Barney's placed101 piece order you remember it
as 101?
Yeah, it was 101.
And I thought that's so strangebut great.

(22:02):
Yes, I also know that it wasdeliverable in August.
So just to show you thetimeline, the dinner that I had
with my friend, the mensweardesigner, that was in April.
So I had to deliver 101 pieces.
So all of this happened.
So I went through the yellowpages, which people laugh about
because there's pre-Google, andI found the most amazing

(22:24):
manufacturer, john Manolucci oh,my God, lebanon, and I just
love listening to him talk.
But he was also Kate Spade'sfirst manufacturer and he helped
me perfect the design.
I was like, okay, this is whatI've got from my bleaker street,
this is what I want to change.
And it was such a small, familyrun, tight knit group, the

(22:45):
Manaluchis.
They were amazing.
His sons were around, I don'tknow.
It was really great.
Like he took me under his wingand I pieced it together.
I mean, I bought everythingseparately, I figured it out.
I mean, that's what I'm saying.
Operationally, I feel like Icould pull that off and I loved
that, that I got into it's laterdealing with salespeople and

(23:08):
showroom horrors and scale andpeople.
You know people come after youand they really try to eat you
alive for their own gain.
And I only know that now,looking back, I would have built
out the business a bitdifferently, certainly would
have sold the businessdifferently, would have
partnered differently.
But that first five years wasthe most magical, incredible
time that I feel so grateful for.
I learned a ton and it wascreative and the best kind of

(23:31):
stress you could have, likeeverybody after it, and it was
super fun.
And then you know, each designI did did really well, like my
first five bags out of the gate.
But you know, if you're ananalytical person and somebody
who understands business whichat the time I didn't the space
was wide open.
I was just about to curse, butI'm not going to do that on your

(23:52):
podcast.
It was wide open.
So, pre-mark by Mark Jacobs,pre-alexander Wang, pre-c by
Chloe, pre-rebecca Minkoffactually.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
You know, I had a couple years on her at least,
and she came out.
I think in let's see 2007 654.
I think it was 2004 or 5,that's when she came out, I
think 2005 because I workedright in 2003, so I think she
was two years.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, my god and my yeah.
It's really funny, like just myshady showroom at the time.
Oh, what's her name?
I don't know if we're allowedto we don't want to name.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
But I know how she worked andshe was snaky, but a hustler
like you got the placement, butit was like at what cost?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, and then you have to watch your own back in
her showroom.
That was the problem and Iwould caution anybody.
I think showrooms, if they're agood partner, could definitely
launch and lift.
I don't know.
Today they're still around.
Some of those really powerhousewomen are still.
It's women mainly.
They're always women.
Yeah, as far as I know, they'restill around, but you need to
take sales in-house and you needto build out a really strong

(24:57):
sales team and a strong strategyand not pay ridiculous
commissions once you're actuallybuilt out your own brands,
although you can continue areally strong partnership, but
it has to be on terms that makesense for a growing business.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Let me ask you, though, while all this was going
on, right, you were prettyyoung.
Did you, at that time, have aclear idea of who your customer
was, or was it?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
she's me Well that's what was clear and I think that
you know, 20 years in here I am,you know I'm launching a new
business and considering allkinds of demographics right,
because at the time I was onlyconsidering my own Right and, in
a way, being a product person,like right now you have all
kinds of MBAs that are thepeople starting businesses back

(25:41):
then I mean not to sound like adinosaur they were all creatives
.
Nobody was putting togetherbusiness plans.
To that extent I did.
Well, you know you're probablya smart man, most of us but like
all my friends that actuallysome of them became very
successful with apparel brandsand other things like this
jewelry brands.
They were really coming fromthe heart, creating product that

(26:04):
was usable, functional,gorgeous, sexy, whatever it is,
but also price.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
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Do you think now, had youlaunched that, you would have
been able to have such a quickrise where the market is so
saturated in terms of, you know,brands with fans and social?

(27:54):
I mean it is.
It's kind of terrifying.
I mean I just ran an incubatorand the brands that were in it,
most of whom were fairlysuccessful, like doing pretty
well the whole thing, and eventhen I was thinking like, wow,
it is not that it's so tough,but to be successful and truly
stand out, you have to narrow,cast your demographic and their

(28:15):
psychographics and ethnographyand all of that to know, see,
eat Like.
You need to know truly how to.
It's not even so much designinginto a price point, it's
designing into a customer,exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
And that is actually an exercise that I'm doing now
with Chosen Woven and it's somuch fun because we started it
out.
We realized all of our brandingand creative does not match
actually who our customer is andit's a much more detailed.
Like you know, she skis andtelluride.
She's like an eco-luxurist likewho knew that word, you know,
but that's what it is Right.
So she's sophisticated Like whoknew that word, you know, but

(28:48):
that's what it is right.
So she's sophisticated, butshe's also a granola in the most
luxe way you can think.
Right, no, I didn't do that withBotcure, except the downtown
chic thing came from Botcure.
That is what I encapsulated andI know it was coined and used
by others, but we were the onethat actually narrowed down our
cool city girl to that and thataesthetic.
Now I laugh because when I lookback at my archives in 2009, I

(29:13):
think I was pregnant, I thinkthe back-to-back pregnancies and
the stuff it looks likeValentino not Valentino rock
star stud stuff, but likeromantic Valentino, right Moral,
you know.
Like I was getting reallycreative but like really
off-brand, you know, but thathappens.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
I think that's a moment, that's, that's a rite of
passage.
As a designer I mean, that'sTerry Agans who wrote the end of
fashion she's done a lot ofthose like in the face books
about fashion, about as adesigner at least during that
time, like Mizrahi and so forthalmost created their own demise
by getting so enveloped theirbrand and that the customer

(29:53):
needs to follow that, as opposedto being cognizant of the
evolution, of who your customerreally is.
But I think it's a rite ofpassage, as every designer, to
kind of not so much go off thedeep end but like hey, this is
how it's got to be, because thisis how I feel and the evolution
it's so beautiful and shop andbuy and lot, you know all that.
I think it's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Well it is, and now I mean with social media being
the foundation for any of it,whereas before you know where
and how did brands communicate?
They communicated throughmagazines, pr and physical
locations and being in the rightstores and being on the right
people.
But still, how would you knowthat if you didn't open up a

(30:33):
magazine?
So now you know the inundationis very heavy and also very
narrow, because you could omit alot of things from your life
and not even know about thembecause you're so busy kind of
consuming the same content.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
So I don't know you had a lot of situations, though
I know you had a fewpartnerships.
You grew, you eventually soldyour brand.
Like we can get to that.
We've got some time before wehit that point, but you were
knocked off.
Let me ask you did you everthink of putting a design patent
on your silhouettes?
I did that.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, I tried to, but I didn't have any luck with it.
Steve Madden knocked it off.
You know, the best part wasgoing to Chinatown and seeing my
designs with a Prada triangleon them.
That was ridiculous, but therewas a lot of that.
I mean, wasted a lot of time,money and energy trying to
protect the designs and onelittle thing is off and it's no
longer under protection.

(31:22):
Steve Madden was known for that.
He didn't just do it to me, hedid it to everyone.
Shoes, bags, like the wholething.
Anybody doing somethinginteresting was now protected.
But you know, it's a differentcustomer at the same time too,
interestingly.
So the ships passed in thenight to some extent, but it was
still dollars out of the youngdesigners, you know, coffers, I
would say.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
How long did you go before you said, oh my God, I
need a partner.
What was that?
Because I know you had, andthen you didn't, and then you
did.
What happened there?

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Well, I had bought care independently for 10 years.
The real sweet ride was sixyears where it was just amazing.
In 2007, I really was courtedlike heavily.
I had Delphine Arnaud in myoffices on cross-country twice.
That was amazing and I was sonaive.
I actually thought that dealwas going to go through.

(32:12):
I thought my entire life wouldbe very different.
But what I didn't realize isthat for them you know, kudos to
me and, I guess, my team at thetime we were really able to
create a brand because I youknow my photography background.
I was shooting the campaigns, Iwas buying remnant pages and
magazines, so I was advertisingand I looked the part and they
were shocked to find that wewere like a $10 million company.

(32:34):
They thought we were like a $30million company.
Oh my God, 50.
And I was like no, and thething is how to get there?
Like I never had the resourcesto really understand that scale.
Well, more like keeping up withbusiness and then chasing this
bigger dream which was sort ofunfolding without that much
effort.
But that's not really the casethere.
There was built up saturation,there was also huge competition

(32:57):
and just losing ground after awhile.
I spent a lot of time and moneyon a shoe development which
broke even, but I really shouldhave licensed that.
Licensing felt like a dirtyword back then to a true native
but the reality is that's howyou do it.
That's how Tori built herbusiness.
The shoes built that businessand the shoes were not
profitable.
Right Were the right thingbecause with the market research

(33:21):
, that's what the market wanted.
Anyway, I had cool stuff happen.
I think it was Seven for AllMankind.
They came to me.
They wanted us to license theirname to do handbags.
Now, if I wasn't so stretchedthin like that could have been a
cool business for a couple ofyears which just multiplied the
revenues.
You know I didn't have the CEOpartner.
The CEO that I was wasoperational, right and as a

(33:43):
creative.
So I think that looking back, Imissed that critical piece and
then it came to a point where Icouldn't afford that person.
So I was hoping the partnershipwould bring that.
So was it LVMH?
It was also Stuart Weitzman.
The last really sexy deal I hadon the table was Stuart
Weitzman and I remember meetinghim at the Peninsula Hotel.
I mean I've got stories, likeI've got Andrew's stories, but

(34:05):
let's just say that he built anincredible business, I think has
since really exited completely.
He spent 40 years as a shoe dogmuch respect.
But he's kind of looking at mewith a big pregnant belly like
why don't you do it yourself?
And I was like listen, yourpeople want you to do great
handbags.
I've got that and I've got thepeople and I'd love to do great

(34:25):
shoes, so we could do ittogether.
You know, and I've got thepeople and I'd love to do great
shoes, so we could do ittogether.
You know, and I don't have 40years, because that's not the
pace of the business today.
So, needless to say, I didn'tclose that deal and that was the
last deal on the table beforethe world fell off a cliff
October 2008.
Were you gutted when it didn'thappen?

Speaker 3 (34:41):
No, I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Really?
No, I wasn't.
I didn't understand the loss ofopportunity at that song
because I don't have a crystalball.
The thing is also, if I hadn'tgotten it done by fall of 2008,
nothing was going to happen foranother two, three years.
Right, right, right.
Even so, I think our multiplesjust coming back to what they
were I mean in some sectors,probably beauty I don't think

(35:05):
it's in handbag.
What's a multiple?
Let's just talk about that.
You know what you can sell yourcompany for multiples of
revenue or your profit.
To keep it simple, I look atthe business a little bit
different.
The evolution of that moment waslike a good five years and that
was it.
And so the idea of even sellinga company in year four that I
was absolutely loving did notcompute, even though I was not

(35:26):
going to turn down any of thesesuper sexy blue chip Right,
right, right.
But once they were gone and thebusiness really took a hit,
2011 was my first tough year.
So that was seven years in, andthen, you know, I still was
able to pivot because I wentfrom a 595 price point.
The aspirational customer thatis again apparently disappearing

(35:47):
right now disappeared cold then.
And you had the Alex Wangs.
You had my girl also, if she was25, when we started together
she was then 32.
And now she wants a Chanel bag.
And now Chanel was like, hey,look at all these girls buying
these contemporary, upper,contemporary, young designer
price points.

(36:07):
Let's make it possible for them, of course.
Now again, absolutelyimpossible, right Entry price
point 6,500.
Okay, but Not insane,ridiculous.
I mean, I still, to this day,have never, never done it.
Like just cannot pull thetrigger on a Chanel bag.
Me neither.
But that's the whole reason Istarted Bodcare because I was
never going to be that personthat was going to pull the

(36:27):
trigger on an Hermes and spendmultiple payments on a bag.
I just wasn't going to do it.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
You know two things on that.
One same Two.
The buyer from Bloomy's hadtold me years ago that the first
bag that the girls would buywould be a Bodcare or a Minkoff
and then the second bag shewould get would be the Chanel
flap because she'd have the bumpin salary.
So it was like the training braof handbags, like this is my

(36:54):
cool bag, this is it.
And you know a lot of thedesigners with whom I've
consulted wildly still carryaround labels and I always say I
love that you're paying me andI'm grateful I'll keep taking
your money.
But you're missing out on anopportunity other than writing
off the taxis because clearlyyou're not taking a subway.
But you're missing a streetopportunity because the whole

(37:17):
where can I find?
Element comes from you wearingyour own damn product.
So that's like, oh, but I lovemy Louis, I love my Louisville.
I was like well then youshouldn't be designing bags.
And PS, the buyers who aregoing to buy your bags off the
gate are all boutiques.
So those buyers and all theestablished retailers want to
know what your traction andsales are before they even pick

(37:38):
you up, especially now.
Like what are your D to C sales?
Right, so it's the narrative.
So I don't want to say Iapplaud that, you haven't, I
just can't either, purely forthat same aspect.
I mean, I'm Garmento offspringand we were raised like how much
are the Greygoats, how much isthe cost per foot?
And then you realize what themarkup is and you're like hey,

(37:59):
it's the exact same markup as itis for anything else.
I might as well.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
It's cheaper to make your own bag, truly, absolutely,
absolutely, where it allstarted.
But also, too, like we weredesigning so many bags at that
point, you had to wear, testthem.
I had no time to wear otherpeople's bags.
Plus, I was really excitedabout what I was doing.
I did buy designer bags, butfor an archive, you know, I
would buy things that I thoughtwere great design, but I didn't
wear them.
I just basically wear them hereand there a little bit, but

(38:22):
mainly to artistic pieces, yeah,and then I would keep them or
I'd sell them.
I mean, I didn't get that deepinto it, but I had a small, you
know, very unique collection,not like your typical stuff.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
The Alexander Wang bag with the studs at the bottom
.
Never bought that.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
You know, at that point that was like sort of a
newer generation, yeah, and Ihad done that like Nolita girl.
It was just heavy, it wasimpractical and I didn't love it
.
Although I think some of theleather choices were great and I
loved all the iterations, yepDidn't want to wear it, you know
.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
I had a student of mine at Parsons who had saved
her money to get that and I toldher I said, before you make
these investments, go in therewith something of value wearing
it to know how badly the bag isgoing to destroy it.
Because I don't think a bagdesigned by a man would take
into consideration.
You know tights and all theseother things and the studs and
sticking.
You know no disrespect insaying that a man couldn't

(39:15):
design, but you know, like thewherewithal of, like what I'm
wearing, I know that bag willstick to everything Exactly.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Well, but I remember sometimes it is that way, though
, even as a female designer.
I remember some of ourboutiques were occasionally
older women.
They're probably my age now,but back then I was like these
people are old, we're alwaysconcerned like, oh, the weight,
you know.
And I was like the weight and Ialways made sure to keep it in
mind because I understand likenobody wants to carry a heavy

(39:44):
bag.
But now, at this age, I'm like,oh, I get that.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Like saying, like nobody wants to carry a heavy
bag.
But now, at this age, I'm like,oh, I get that, like it needs
to be weight distributedproperly, not to mess with your
back.
You know, listen, those MarcJacobs bags of those days should
have come with an orthopedistnumber, because those bags were
heavy while they were empty andthey just kept getting heavier
and heavier and I thought, God,I would love to buy one, purely
out of principle.
But it was like what the hellam I going to put in there?
Nothing.
So you got to this point right,and I know you had a.
Was it JCPenney with theKardashians when they had it?

(40:13):
Was it JCPenney?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
I don't remember if they did it for JCPenney, but it
sounds about right.
The funny thing is that TMZ haddone a poll on their website
Like do you think it's aknockoff?
And it was like the 8% werelike, yeah, we just sent them a
cease and desist and theystopped, and I don't remember
who the partner in that was.
This was before I think theKardashians got as elevated with
their oh yeah, 100% Realschlocky back then I remember.

(40:38):
But obviously now they havelike really beautifully built
out businesses, if you look atit.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
It was an LA manufacturer and I can't
remember which one.
If I remember correctly thatthey were just being courted
with like let's do this, let'sdo that.
So I mean, your bag was a lowhanging to knock off per se.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
I have a funny story.
There was a manufacturer in thegarment center not our beloved
Manolucci but I had to at somepoint have three factories,
because when I was.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
It was a lot Were all your bags being made
domestically.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
For a while, for three years, and then I found
the most amazing manufactureroverseas.
That was like a gem, somebodywho really believed a big
business I mean hundreds ofmillions of dollars he was doing
, and he took me under his wingas well.
I feel like he was incredible,like just such a passionate,
like he loved bags.
He was like basically so far upthe food chain but he still
loved to nurture talent.

(41:31):
It was amazing, anyway, sidenote on that.
So I had to break up with mythree New York manufacturers.
The third one didn't care toomuch because he got the scraps,
but the Mattalucci was amazing.
He was very upset with thesituation but he understood and
I tried to keep some stuff localand I will tell you, hands down
, the local stuff was always thebest stuff.
Right, so you didn't keep themto if you needed reorders

(41:58):
quickly at least, or samplemaking.
I couldn't do it in the grandscheme of things, but I did a
little bit and Manolucci was mychoice for that.
So manufacturer number two waspretty successful was very
pissed and I was like, come on,like what do you expect me to do
?
You're not buying thecomponents for me, it's extra
production work.
I had to like count out the Ican't do that Right the time
value of money alone.
It didn't make any sense.

(42:18):
So I remember that he took onRebecca Minkoff right after that
I know who you're talking about, I know who I'm talking about.
And he sent me an email after Ihad my son was my second kid,
right Two out of three.
And he sends me an email like Ijust want you to know that we
have another baby and her nameis Rebecca Minkoff.
And I was just like obvious.

(42:41):
But I wrote back to him I waslike, well, that's great,
congratulations.
And I'd like you to know that Iactually had a real baby and
his name is Sage.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Oh, my God Sage is 15 now.
He is going to be 15 inNovember.
Yeah, I remember all thesethings?

Speaker 1 (42:57):
That's nuts.
Yeah, I was so like what areyou trying to say to me?
Like ha ha.
You know, meanwhile it's likeit's a small world, but it was
unnecessary to send me thatemail.
But you know, obviously he wasspiteful and feeling like, well,
you left me high and dry and Ifound somebody else.
Amazing, and you know, we'reall in it together and in a way,

(43:17):
I mean we're all part of thesame pie but at the same time, I
really don't think, you know,we had the same customer base.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Actually you had commented about the $5.95 point
going down to $4.95.
She gets credit for that, formaking that big jump, but I know
you were also part of thatmovement.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Well, no, I'll give her credit for that, because I
think that she was ahead of it.
I was so expanded that I had tocontract in order to
reconfigure.
She was just on the come up, soshe was able to catch it ahead
and she said it for everyone,but it was right.
I don't know what kind ofmarket research they did, but it
was correct.
The new price point wasactually $3.95 and $4.95 max for
the big anything, right, right.

(43:55):
So that made a lot of sense.
Now, where I saved my businesswas in 2011, when shit was
hitting the fan and everythingsort of caught up to us.
And also, I was actuallyworking with equity investors
for the first time and theypulled out the base strong.
For nine months I dumped tensof thousands into legal and then
they decided to pull out, sothat was a whole nother

(44:16):
nightmare, but I remember thatwhat I did do well was come up
with another design that wasable to be very healthy margins
and the right price point.
So the Valentina group was bornthen and that changed
everything.
Is that your mom's name?
No, just made it up.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Oh my God, wait, in hindsight you must be pretty
impressed with yourself to pulllike another kicker bag out
because you give birth to threekids.
But how many iconic bags canyou really birth?

Speaker 1 (44:50):
I don't know if that one is iconic so much.
It was just really the rightbag at the right time.
It was clever, it waswell-priced, it was chic, it did
all the things you know.
I don't know.
But again, I think this issomething that I have some odd
talent with.
I don't know.
I mean I didn't study it.
I mean I do look at somedesigner bags.
Like I was just at a Etro eventyesterday at Inset Harbor and

(45:13):
they have this bag and I waslike this is brilliant hardware.
Like I love jewelry, I lovehardware design, I love clever
solutions to problems.
So I'm always going to beexcited by stuff like that.
And I think that's where you'realways playing be excited by
stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
And I think that's where you're always playing.
I mean, I think apparel designis much harder.
I think the fact that you movedinto that I mean, it's not
apparel per se, but anythingwith sizing to me is terrifying.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Well, I have a partner who's brilliant and has
a background in that, socertainly I wouldn't be trying
to figure that out on my own.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
So you get to the point when did you decide like
I'm done, I'm out?
Because I remembered the drama.
I think you had actually spokento my class.
I'm trying to think what year2011, 2012, if I was at FIT or
if I was still at Parsons.
But I know we were incommunication and you're like,
yeah, I have this big companyand it's really exciting.
And then I spoke to you after.

(46:05):
You're like, yeah, that's done,that's done.
And you had three kids by thispoint.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, I had three kids 2005, 2008, and 2009.
I sold the company in 2013.
So I think in 2011 was therough year.
2012 was when the Valentinacame out and kind of righted the
ship.
But that's when I also realizedthat I needed funding because
the game had changed.
Marketing was a massive expensedigital marketing, influencer

(46:32):
marketing, all of it.
We didn't have to do thatbefore and it was capped costs
with PR, and that was also kindof the age of the D2C brands.
There was a lot, I guess Kuyana, oh my God, yeah, everlane
models I don't know when theDagny Dover thing came, but
there was suddenly this sort ofmillennial customer that when I

(46:53):
started, I guess Gen X soundsold now, but back then we were
20.
We were 20.
But very quickly we weremarried with kids moving on.
You were you were before I wasWell moving into a different
lifestyle and a differentdemographic.
It's always moving.
It's moving on.
You were, you were before I wasWell moving into a different
lifestyle and a differentdemographic.
It's always moving, it's alwaysshifting.
But I realized that I neededfunding, I needed support, I

(47:16):
really needed the back endsupport.
I wanted more of logistics andthat and I thought it would be a
great partnership, a strategicpartnership, where they would
carry the back and even, likeyou know, the in-house sales
team and really strengthen thoseoperational foundations and
provide money for some reallyhigh level advertising and some

(47:38):
of that stuff Just expansion.
Basically, that was expansion,sort of protection against
market conditions, and it turnedout to be a bad partnership for
me.
You know, you hear that so much.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
It's like a marriage, but in terms of the final
hurrah, the final chapter of thepartner that ended up taking
over back here, because you werethere for a minute and then you
just For five years actually,you were there for that long.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
I didn't think it was that long, and then I got
bought out for the final amount.
Was it part of?

Speaker 3 (48:07):
your contract to stay there for five years, because
that's a long time.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
No, I had a three-year contract and then I
had a two-year consulting gigand at which point I was working
with other brands and actuallyreally enjoying that.
But I found it a little bitdifficult to be the brand
ambassador for Botcare withoutbeing really appreciated or
respected much, to be honest.
I mean, I feel like enoughtime's passed that I could be

(48:31):
honest about that.
It was definitely not afeel-good situation and I had so
much to give to the company andit was unwanted basically, or
it was deflected or sort of shutdown.
So I realized.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
It blows my mind.
When those situations happen,it's like you have this person
who's a wealth of history,knowledge, branding talent.
Why aren't you using thisperson, who you are paying, to
take full advantage, to continuethe legacy of the brand?
But that's where who you arepaying to take full advantage to
continue the legacy of thebrand, but that's where who you
are as a visionary will alwaysconflict with someone who is

(49:05):
looking at it from a factoryangle.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Well, I'm going to give you one example, and I
think that this should tell youeverything.
I had very few allies in thatinstitution, but one of them,
somebody who I could go to whenthings were getting tricky and
sticky, and this one said to mehigh level male in the
organization said to me well,think of it this way Imagine you

(49:28):
purchase a painting and it'sexpensive and it's beautiful,
and you put it up on your walland your friends come over to
see it, but there in the corneris a little chair with the
artist sitting there and youhave to constantly talk about
the artist and he's like justimagine that.
And I was like, literallythat's what any successful
investor would want, actually,to a point.

(49:52):
Obviously, there comes a pointwhere a brand can live.
Possibly you know it's up todebate, but I think brands can
live on without their founders.
If they can turn a page, wecreate a new.
They can always create a newvision.
You know, as you said, you knowit does move on from that
moment.
But just that thought and thatmentality is not positive, let's
put it that way, and kind ofcrazy.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Yeah, when did you decide?
Like that's it, I'm out?

Speaker 1 (50:15):
So when I was consulting I was feeling kind of
funny because obviouslyconsulting in the world of
accessories it's a very smallworld.
So I would get all thisadulation like, oh, can you help
us do this, can you help us dothat, great.
But then, like I'm stillrepping for Botcare and I'm not
really like being told abouteverything, I'm being left out.

(50:37):
The marketing team was anabsolute disaster.
All kinds of tricky, mean girlstuff was going on.
I mean I hate to say thatthat's so boring, but it was
dumb.
And then you know, I just kindof was like why am I doing this?
So I went back to the main teamand I said, hey, find me out
officially.
No, no, I said I want to befull throttle.
I had a few years working withsome really wonderful people and

(50:58):
creating some great things.
But you know, you're likemaking sure not to conflict with
your and you're just kind oflike, okay, what am I doing?
My name's still there, let'sjust get back in.
It's like when your marriagegoes bad.
And then you're like let's giveit another shot, let's go to
therapy, let's make this work.
And they were like no, theywere like well, if you have all
these expectations and asks wecan't accommodate, and I said,

(51:21):
well then, I can't stay.
And so you know.
But listen, this is a typicalstory.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know, but I guess I'm seeingit through the lens of a mom who
is still going to work everyday for a brand that she created
, to work in an office that'snot yours, to be run by a
company that's not yours.
So it's kind of like outer body.
You know, like okay, I guessI'm out, like one day you just
leave an office that still hasyour name on it, right, I'm like

(51:49):
I'm not coming back here,that's it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
It took me a while to disconnect.
I was definitely hurt.
I think over it like not hurtby them specifically, just like
hurt by the whole story in theend was disappointing.
You know, I didn't really knowhow to process and how to define
myself.
I mean now I'm like comethrough and very excited about
where my life is headed next anddoing some really mission based

(52:14):
brands work and like reallythinking about doing product.
That means something to me in adeeper way than just like a
great design which is a startingpoint for anything.
But I don't know.
I mean, listen, you live, youlearn.
It's definitely not a typicalstory.
Yeah, I think that somepartnerships are incredible and

(52:35):
very fruitful and others aren't.
It is what it is Like.
I don't follow Bodcare onInstagram.
I don't pay attention to whatgoes on there.
I've disconnected even thoughit's my name.
It's not my name, Right, it'snot yeah, and it's funny because
a lot of people still identifyme this way.
So when I meet people,everybody has these great
stories and they're like oh, myGod, I still love your bags.
And they're like, oh, you knowwhat happens.

(53:01):
And I'm like, well, you know,I'm not there anymore and it's
the divorce.
It's just, we moved on, and youdo move on, though you do
Everybody moves on in some cases.
I mean it's a worthy experience.
I think today's entrepreneurs,this generation, have so much
more of a network to rely on.
I mean, everyone's anentrepreneur, there are
resources for entrepreneurs,there are resources for founders

(53:24):
, for female founders, foreverything you can think of to
support yourself, to educateyourself, to understand.
I mean it's just, it's wideopen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it feltkind of like I was in a vacuum.
I didn't know.
You know, I probably shouldhave called up Rebecca and been
like okay, I ran into her nottoo long ago and we had like a
funny little conversation aboutsort of like our worlds, our ex

(53:47):
world, in a sense, it's kind oflike finding out you both dated
the same person for the sameamount of time, like what that
happened to you.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
What did they do to you?
Oh well, this is what they didto me.
It's so funny because I thinkit might age me, age us, but it
was like the golden age of beingthis creator of something that
people genuinely consumed, andit was consumed in a way that's
very different than it is now.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
You know, I love to see what's happening now.
Like I was talking to somebodywho's been in the industry for a
really long time and they werelike hey, there's a whole
resurgence on handbags in thatprice point that you did Like
you should think about comingback and doing that and I was
just like no, I don't see it.
But you know that's because Iguess certain things are still
happening, like Chanel bags aregetting more expensive and like

(54:34):
that whole feeder system andbags still exist.
You just have newer, coolerones coming up that take the
place.
Yeah, and I don't know, like myBodcare customers from back
then are middle-aged now, youknow, but they got the cash and
they've got the style.
I mean it's not over, it's justyeah, it's different.

(54:54):
But like are you buying that now?
Are you buying Luave?

Speaker 3 (54:57):
or whatever, not buying anything, I still can't
do it.
What bag do you carry?

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Oh, I'm going to show it to you.
It's so wrecked right now, butI love this bag so much and it's
not a box your bag at all.
It is a Barbara Bowie bag.
Oh my God, do you remember her?
Yes, so this bag must be 15years old.
Oh, I worked with Salt, thestrap company, to do a bag
design for them, so I have theirstrap on here.

(55:25):
It's a disastrous mess but Ifreaking love it.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
It's perfect size and it's got all the hardware that
I like.
So do you have an original bikecare bag in your rotation of
handbags or you can't?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
You know what?
They're precious to me.
Now I don't want to use them, Idon't want to get them messed
up, but I have the originaloriginal right nearby If you
want me to grab it.
It looks like a homemade mess,yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah, yeah, go grab it.
Go grab it, for sure.
It's literally right here.
Oh my goodness, wow, look ather.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Oh my God, this is the original trigger Yep, this
is where I got from Ohio.
Fasteners yeah, oh, they'restill around.
Yep, wow, this is the logo thatmy sister made.
This was like back then wedidn't knot them, we just glued
them.
I'm pretty sure this is aManolucci.
I went and bought fabric in thegarment center but look at this

(56:14):
sexy little thing.
Wow, I love it.
I love it.
I still love it.
You should.
I would actually love to remakethese the right way for me, but
that's it.
That's it.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
So, just to wrap up, we can't have a podcast without
someone showing one of theirback, so I'm glad we were able
to see her in all her glory.
What are you doing now?
How can we find you?
How can we follow you all inthe world of Monica Batkir?

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Oh, my goodness, this is a shameless plug.
Well, monica should be hereExactly.
Instagram, monica Batkir.
My new company is called ChosenWoven and this is a really
exciting new project for me.
It's Intimates.
I have a fantastic partner, olgaKapustina, who comes from
apparel.
She had an incredible dressline back in the Barneys days as

(57:05):
well and got her biochemicalengineering degree and decided
all about sustainable fabric use.
So we make gorgeous knits.
Oh, I can show you one of thosetoo.
Bring it on Beautiful knitsthat are made without the use of
plastic.
It's all merino based, so it'snot knitting.
You could wear it in the coldweather.
It keeps you warm.
Hot weather keeps you cool.

(57:25):
It's like literal miraclematerial.
And with the innovations inknitting, we are able to create
support and stretch withoutspandex.
No petroleum based, fossil fuelbased plastic.
Wow, gorgeous, gorgeous,gorgeous.
Oh, I have it right here.

(57:47):
These panties are going to lookhuge because these are high
waisted, but against me, they'regoing to look very big.
These are high waisted andthey're just like super pretty,
wow, and they feel like a dream.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
And here we have a print that is clashing against
my I was just going to say youshould wear them with that on
top, but then tuck it in.
Oh wow, that's lovely.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
So you know, we're on a mission.
We love it.
We're going to make a lot moreproduct.
Right now, we've got all kindsof tops.
I got a bra right here, righthere.
Show you guys the bra.
Oh, wow, this is mine, though,so it's not in condition, but
just freshly washed.
So cold water, yeah, that'samazing, but it looks good, it

(58:29):
feels good.
So, yeah, that's what I'm doingnow.
I feel like it took me a whileto find a passion, but I always
love handbags.
I think they're amazing, andthere's some really great young
designers coming out doing theirthing and I'm super impressed.
So I think it's always anevolving category.
It doesn't get boring no, notfor us.
Gorgeous, gorgeous designs, andwomen and men use bags all day,

(58:53):
every day, and I think it's fun.
So I love that you're keepingit alive for all the young
hopefuls out there, or oldhopefuls, everyone who wants to
do it.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Listen, my hook is everybody loves an underdog, but
everybody loves a handbag more,so I love it.
That said, monica, you've beenamazing.
Thank you for joining us onHandbag Designer 101.
And we will be watching you tosee what comes next.
So thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for all the supportand your undying love and
passion for handbags.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
All right, we'll see you soon.
Okay, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at handbag designer.
Thanks so much, see you nexttime.