What if the difference between a forgettable line and an enduring brand came down to a handful of details and a few brave decisions? In this episode, Steven Alan unpacks how a small Soho storefront became a global showroom, why discovery will always trump trade-show buying, and how clean distribution keeps both the magic and the margin intact. From recognizing Claire V’s voice in five self-sewn bags to cultivating independent designers who’d later define the modern accessories space, Steven shares how instinct, restraint, and precision build brands that last.
He also gets candid about scaling too fast—expanding from eight to twenty-three stores, adding overhead, and learning the hard way that growth without discipline can crush profitability. Post-COVID, he pared everything back, rebuilt around his core menswear, and reopened with a Chelsea studio that blends craftsmanship, curation, and calm. His playbook now? Specialize deeply, collaborate selectively, and let great product—not PR—do the talking.
đź’ˇ Key Takeaways:
- Craft Creates Belief: Every zipper placement, stitch, and texture matters—they’re what earn a customer’s trust.
- Scale with Purpose: Growth without clarity or discipline erodes the foundation of your brand.
- Quiet is Power: Thoughtful distribution and organic word of mouth can build more enduring value than flashy marketing.
👤 Our Guest:
Steven Alan is a designer, retailer, and curator known for redefining modern American style through his namesake brand and visionary showroom. With a career spanning three decades, he’s launched and nurtured some of fashion’s most recognizable independent labels while championing authenticity, craftsmanship, and understated design.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.Â
đź”– Hashtags:
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
And then and then when it all sort of clicked in
(00:02):
the store, when it was like, oh,this is what I need to do.
I need to be discovering brands,not just like going to trade
shows and like what is beingdished out there, you know, for
retailers.
I need to actually be more uhinstrumental in terms of like
choosing and and that that'swhen it really started to
(00:22):
switch.
That's when the articles startedcoming out about clothing and
and everything else.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert, and the handbag parrygodmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love from
the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(00:49):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Steven Allen, toHandbag Designer 101 the
podcast.
I feel like I'm with uh founderroyalty here.
Thank you for joining us today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Very welcome.
Thanks for having me on yourshow.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Yes.
I told you we go way back.
You said you remembered, but Idon't think you really did.
But you did speak on one of theindustry panels that I had had
years back.
I think you were on it withmaybe Gary Wasner and Richard
Kessenbaum.
I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was mine.
So that's good.
All right.
Yeah.
But it's I have had thefortunate pleasure to speak with
many, if almost, almost all, buttwo so far.
I've got two left of people thatyou have discovered, put on the
(01:51):
map, taken to the next level.
You know, what made these peoplego from nobody to somebody?
So if I can do this, andobviously not in discovery order
order, we've Monica Bach here,Joy and Peter Gryson, Claire
Vivigay, aka Glare V, and nowI'm missing Foley and Karina and
Loffler Randall.
(02:11):
Am I missing anybody else?
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
I mean, there was definitely other handbag
designers, but I don't thinkanyone that really comes to mind
that I feel like is someone thatuh yeah.
It wasn't really our our mainfocus in the showroom either.
It was just something that wedid in conjunction with
clothing.
But it was definitely a big partof what we did, you know,
working with these differentbrands.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
So you like had this prolific showroom.
And I started my handbag brandin the early 2000s, and it uh it
did not go where everybody else,everybody else's brand, but I am
really good at finding peopleand discovering people and
talking to people.
That's my strength, building myown personal handbag brand at
the time, not so much.
(02:54):
I'm good on the sidelines andelevating, and that's become
what my MO is with the handbagawards and everything else
within this community of handbagdesigners.
But you started a showroom, butwhy did you start a showroom?
Like what led us all the way togetting to the showroom
narrative?
(03:14):
Because that's that's realestate, that's taking on brands,
that's like having to have otherpeople get their act together
that you need to rely on forthem to do their thing, for you
to make money.
Like, how did this all come tobe?
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Well, when I started, uh, you know, I started
the store and I and I had kindof like uh no limits in terms of
categories that I wanted to sellin the store, but my store was
tiny.
You know, I was starting outright out of college, and I
found a store, you know, in thisarea of Soho that was really
kind of neglected.
There was graffiti all over theoutside of the building, bars on
(03:48):
the windows, you couldn't evenlook into the store.
And I was like, okay, this isthe spot, you know, and it was
really cheap.
It was like$2,500 a month rentat the time, and uh like
probably 500 square feet.
And so I did that, and I reallyknew the accessory business
pretty well.
I I didn't know the clothingbusiness well at that time, and
(04:10):
I'm not trained as a designer,you know.
I I, you know, I grew up withparents that are in retail, and
I have been to a lot of tradeshows and so forth.
But anyway, it it was somethingthat I I really liked and I had
a strong and I used to getfrustrated when people would
write about the store and theywould mention, you know, all the
(04:31):
great, you know, great commentsabout the accessories and
jewelry and stuff like that, butthey wouldn't mention the
clothing.
I was like, why aren't theymentioning the clothing?
And then I realized that I wasjust going to the trade shows,
you know, and buying like otherbuyers and finding brands at the
trade shows.
And that really wasn'tsatisfying.
Whereas with jewelry and withsome handbags, you know, like
(04:52):
and and accessories, I kind ofhad this almost like inside
knowledge because I knew thesepeople and I knew friends of
these people.
And it was it was very earlystage when I started
representing them.
And so eventually I really foundthat, you know, through the
accessory brands, they hadfriends that were clothing
designers, and then that kind ofbuilt up.
(05:14):
And it was frustrating in thebeginning because we were
getting a lot of press and wewere getting a lot of stores
coming into the store, and theywould be like, you know, like
they might as well have like apencil and a paper, you know, in
their hands, you know, takingnotes.
And it was just like oneverything.
And then some of the brandswould call me and they'd be
(05:37):
like, Oh, we were contacted.
Because at that point, it waslike there was no showrooms
really representing these kindsof designers.
The the showrooms were like inthe garment center, and you kind
of like had to be doing millionsof dollars for the most part for
a lot of these showrooms to evenrepresent you.
Right, right, right.
And so they had asked me if Iwould represent them because
(05:58):
what was happening is they weregetting contacted by stores, and
the store could have been liketwo blocks for me.
And I was like, you can't sellto that store, they're two
blocks for me.
Like it's completely a conflict,you know, like it takes the
specialness out.
Right.
And then I thought about it andI thought, okay, well, you know,
it's not good for the body.
(06:18):
Yeah, it's not good for me, butit's also not good for the
brand.
Right.
You know, like they need to haveclean distribution and be able
to find the best stores to workwith.
And, you know, the best storesare not necessarily the same for
every brand.
You know, like one store couldbe maybe objectively better than
another store, but that storemight not give the brand true
(06:38):
space on the floor and be reallybehind it.
And the uh, you know, storenumber two might be also a good
store, maybe not quite as good,but it could be better for that
brand.
Anyway, I thought, okay, I cancombine this with what I'm doing
and open a showroom.
And so the second the mezzanineof that particular store, as
(06:58):
small as it was, was theshowroom.
And I started, you know,representing uh designers.
Uh in the beginning, it was likeRebecca Danenberg, Milk Fed,
built by Wendy Cake, PixieYates, like those were the
initial kind of lineup.
And then what happened was wereally outgrew that space.
And I thought, okay, I need abig showroom.
(07:19):
But again, it was sort of like,you know, me financing the whole
business.
So I was like, okay, I have tomove my apartment.
I'll just get a new apartmentand that'll be my showroom.
So I found a loft and Soho, andI lived in the back.
I built a wall and then I hadthe showroom in the front, and
we built that out.
And then, you know, eventuallyafter 9-11 happened, I thought,
(07:43):
you know what, it would be goodto have a bigger store and a
place where it could also be myshowroom.
And it sort of made sensebecause rents at that time,
obviously, they were very cheapdowntown.
And so, yeah.
So I was able to get a good dealfor the first uh couple of years
on a space, and I startedrepresenting designers in the
(08:03):
basement, and then I had mystore on the first floor.
And I thought maybe eventuallythis will be busier than my Soho
location.
And then I'll just moveeverything.
But like within six months, itwas busier, despite it being
like ground zero.
So I closed the Soho store,focused on the Tribeca store,
and then eventually we reallyneeded that basement space for
(08:26):
storage.
And so I took another space onFranklin Street, which became
the showroom.
And yeah, I started representingall these designers, and we had
anywhere from 15 to 20 brands atany given time.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
So I I like this this this is quite the quite the
journey, but you said you openedup the store right out of
college and you grew up withparents in retail.
What was that?
Like, what was like, hey, I'vejust spent four years learning,
going to school, getting adegree.
You know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna open up a store.
Like, how did all that come tobe?
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
Because that's not everybody's that's not what
everybody's I knew I wasn'tgonna go work on Wall Street and
I knew I wasn't like gonna havesome sort of a desk job.
And in college, I was studyingundergraduate business.
It was this entrepreneurshipprogram at USC.
And and I wrote my business planon kind of like the idea of I
mean, really, it was it I wasinterested in real estate and
(09:24):
and and entrepreneurship.
And at the time I was thinkingabout like developing a
neighborhood and taking severalstores, you know, like imagine
having 10 stores on one block oryou know, around the block kind
of thing, and sort of creating aneighborhood where rents would
be cheap.
And at the time I was thinkinglike the lower east side would
make sense because stores werelike a thousand to two thousand
(09:47):
a month.
And it it was actually doable,not not by me, but if I had a uh
investor at the time, I Ithought this could be great.
And then I would have, and thenI would be overseeing different
people running each shop.
So I'd find the best shoe shop,and that would be like Stephen
on shoes, and the best bakerywould be Stephen on Bakery, so
(10:07):
forth, and um, you know, sort ofcreating a neighborhood.
So that was the idea.
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
The neighborhood of Steven.
SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
Yeah, yeah.
I thought it would be really funto do, and you know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
What did your parents do?
SPEAKER_02 (10:21):
Uh my father's a jewelry designer, and my mother
and my father had uh storesgrowing up.
They started out uh on 57thStreet for like 13 years, and
then they tore the buildingdown, then they moved to 60th,
and then they had a second storeon Columbus Avenue.
And so after I graduated, I wasuh managing their store.
(10:43):
And then I started buying andselling like collectible
watches, and then that businessI saved up money from that
business to open the firststore.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
So you uh did you grow you grew up in New York
City then?
You went to high school here andeverything?
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Yeah.
I actually went to an art highschool where they have fashion
as a major.
It's called the High School ofArt and Design.
Mark Jacobs and Calvin Kleinwent there.
And but funny enough, I I nevertook one fashion class.
I I always found it kind ofpretentious.
So I was a photography and thenswitched to film and video uh
major.
(11:19):
And then I thought, okay, Ishould study business in college
because I'm not gonna studyphotography anymore because I I
already was developing my ownpictures and I kind of like knew
whatever I needed to know uh todo that.
And then um, yeah, and then Ihad just thought the the storm
made a lot of sense when Igraduated.
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
Did your parents have any have any opinion of you
quote unquote staying in thebusiness?
Because as Garmento offspringmyself, uh, when I ended up
starting my own handbag brand,and my dad was a converter, my
whole life was in the GarminCenter.
And I remember telling him that.
And he's like, biggest mistake,biggest mistake, don't do it,
(12:02):
don't do it.
Nobody makes any money.
There's no point.
I mean, I grew up with peacegoods and understanding bad lab
dips and uh, you know, we grewup wearing seconds and closeouts
and jeans that had mismatchedlegs and socks that were, you
know, one was dyed differentlythan the other.
And the whole construct of goinginto that business, as far as
(12:22):
they were concerned, was like,what's wrong with you?
Like you have choices.
You went to college, you don'tneed to, you don't need to be
doing this.
Did they have opinions?
And by the way, the fact thatyou had entrepreneurship, I
mean, when I was getting my MBA,they had a very, very, very
small entrepreneurship program.
So having entrepreneurship wayback when was perceived, okay,
(12:45):
you're opening up your ownbusiness.
That's cute.
Like, why do you need a titlefor it?
So, did they have opinions andthoughts?
Didn't did that impact you?
Because they're either all forit or all against it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Yeah.
I mean, that was the onelanguage that they really spoke
was retail.
And um, throughout my entirelife, I mean, they they had
worked six days a week or sevenas at a lot of times.
So it was something like had Itold them I was going into
anything else, they would theywould probably not really
relate.
But they definitely understoodretail and they definitely knew
(13:17):
that I I had a feeling for it.
I've always loved product and umboth buying product, you know,
found finding brands, and thendesigning product.
Those are my two favorite, theythey still are my two favorite
things.
And I would say that um, youknow, in the business, that's
definitely what I focus on themost.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
So there is something to be said about
because I assume you worked inthe store z growing up, like you
had no it it was kind ofunderstood, like, okay, you're
gonna come work here and you'regonna come find it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
It wasn't it wasn't understood that I was gonna go
into their business at all.
No.
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
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Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, Barnes and Noble, or
(14:17):
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But did you work there throughhigh school?
You were working there throughhigh school, no?
SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
No, no, I wasn't.
I I would go in there, you know,and I I would go with them like
on a Sunday if there was a tradeshow.
I would go with them because itwas like there was nothing else
to do.
So that I would do, but I neverthought that I would be going
into their business.
And it's funny enough, I have abrother who's three years
younger, and he definitely wasnot going to go into retail,
(14:47):
like he was like went toHarvard, studied visual and
environmental studies.
And uh the last thing I wouldhave ever thought he would have
done is gone into retail.
And he lives in Paris, and um,he's got restaurants there.
So he's also in retail.
So it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
You know, I I read this study, and I've spoken
about this before, that one wayor another, what your parents
have done has such a deepimprint on who you are that you
could try to escape it, butwithout fail, you will end up
following in their footsteps orreplicating their footprint in
(15:23):
some capacity just because it'sso ingrained in you without even
being aware that like, I don'twant to do this, I don't want to
do this, but I guess I am doingthis.
Well, I'm really good at it.
Well, I've been exposed to it,and all this stuff makes sense
and it's low-hanging fruit.
And I guess I am passionateabout it because I get it,
because I've seen it my wholelife.
It's it's interesting how allthat kind of comes to be,
(15:43):
especially when you were sayingthat in your store the jewelry
was doing well, and you're like,what about the apparel?
But yet you'd grown up withjewelry anyway.
So you clearly had asensitivity, uh, had a had a
sense of what could sell becauseyou've been around it so much.
Do you think that's the case?
SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
Definitely.
And then and then when it allsort of clicked in the store,
when it was like, oh, this iswhat I need to do.
I need to be discovering brands,not just like going to trade
shows and like what is beingdished out there, you know, for
retailers.
I need to actually be more uhinstrumental in terms of like
choosing and and that that'swhen it really started to
(16:23):
switch.
That's when the articles startedcoming out about clothing and
and everything else.
And then it was it was a knownthing.
I mean, we we were selling whenI opened the showroom, I think I
had like 750 accounts all overthe world.
So we were selling to departmentstores, specialty stores, and it
was very easy, you know.
(16:43):
Like when I saw a brand that Ithought had potential, it was
like okay.
It was kind of like I Ivisualized it, like it was clear
to me that they would besuccessful, and I knew what I
needed to do to make thathappen.
And it didn't matter if thebrand had a huge collection or
had like you know, 10 pieces or10 items or or whatever.
(17:08):
It was more about the DNA of thebrand.
And if I could see that theyreally had their own point of
view, you know, like someonelike Claire, it was very clear.
She came in with, you know, likea bag of bags.
Like literally, it was like theyall fit in one bag.
And uh she's like, Yeah, I sewedthese myself.
(17:30):
And I remember I showed it to myshowroom director at the time,
and um, she was like, Steven,come on, this is like five bags.
Like, are you serious?
And I was like, No, no, no.
She has talent.
This is gonna be huge.
And um, she's like, Okay, I'mgonna do it because it's your
showroom and you're saying to doit, but mark my words, you know,
(17:52):
whatever, something like that.
And um, and I was like, Okay.
And uh, and you know, it it wasobviously it's it is, and um,
she's fantastic, and she's justkept sort of refining it and
really has her own language andDNA about the brand.
I mean, uh for for Rosoli tocome out with a book um I know
(18:14):
two years ago, you know, on ahandbag design.
Yeah, you know, that's that'syeah, that's that's that's
something.
SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
Can I ask you though, having worked with so
many independent designers, howand and with the awards, you
know, and purely because I'vedealt with so many and so many
who've won, and I could seetheir talent and I could see
what they're capable of, andthey have a clear vision and a
clear voice.
But I've called this basement toBeyonce, where they get a little
(18:43):
bit of attention and they get aspotlight.
And then all of a sudden, youknow, you have to educate them
on pricing and realizing likebecause they lack economies of
scale, their product are way tooexpensive.
And you have to educate them.
And it's very confusing andfrustrating when you're like,
(19:03):
I'm here to help you.
I'm here to help you grow.
I'm offering you resources,opportunities, retail.
Like, I can help you, like, butyou're gonna get in your own
way.
You're the one who's gonna stopyour own your own success.
How have you dealt with that?
Because look, out of that's likeeight designers, right?
We have who are prolific.
Like Claire Vivier, aka Claire Vis, I feel like very unique.
(19:29):
She's very calm, she's verythoughtful, she's very focused,
she's very much no ego, right?
It's one of the things thatmakes her such a unique person
that she really has somethingspecial about her in that
regard.
How did you deal with designersthat you were like, oh, you
know, if only, if only, if only,and I gotta let it go.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Yeah, I mean, I did I dealt with them a lot.
I mean, I was on the board ofthe CFDA uh the missions board,
you know, so I dealt withdesigners that were applying to
the CFDA.
I also mentored brands for awhile, and and you would see it,
and you'd see certain brandsthat were really drawn to the to
the spotlight, and that wastheir focus.
And some brands were brands thatlike should be that's what they
(20:15):
do, that's what they do well.
They do these amazing fashionshows, they're great with the
press.
They sort of and then there'sother brands though, like, why
are you spending this money on ashow?
You know, you need to just spendthe money on the collection,
like, don't, you know, and itwas just sort of like, you know,
hiring PR companies, then payingridiculous amounts of money for
(20:37):
a lot of these brands, you know,when it wasn't really warranted
yet, you know, like so anyway, Iuh there was all kinds of things
that that you would see, youknow, doing that.
And um, you know, a lot of timesit was it was I would meet with
brands even before, you know,like when Montre Gabriel
started, like I met with thembefore they even had a bag, you
(21:00):
know, and they asked me, youknow, what would you what would
we do?
And it was it was at an artparty, and I think we were I
mean we were their first uhaccount, I believe.
And I think there was um, yeah,I mean, from being in our store,
they were in then in Bergdorf'sand other, you know, everyone
else kind of picked them up.
But uh yeah, I I don't know.
(21:21):
I I got I got off the subject,but yeah, so so being in the
CFDA, I definitely saw a lot ofthis with brands.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Had you dealt with someone that you thought was
going to be like a star student,and then you saw that they got
blinded by the spotlight.
Like again, you hit the nail onthe head.
I've it's like within thehandbag designer masterclass
that I teach purely forindependent designers, because
I'd worked with them for solong.
(21:52):
And then the same questions keptcoming up over and over and over
and over again that I'm like,okay, let me just templatize it.
If you want to pay for it, it'sthere.
Like here, find your audience,go through your chasm, your
customer, your agony, solutionmonetization, understanding who
your customer is on a deeperlevel.
So before you go spending moneyand thinking, I need to pay for
(22:13):
a publicist, I need to pay for asales rep, I need a show, I need
overhead.
It's like, what's your hero bag?
What's your collection?
You know, what's your DNA?
How are you going to grow this?
Like, what's the one bag thatyou know is going to sell over
and over and over again?
Have you figured out pricing?
Like, who do you match up with?
And I I had this ongoing jokewith a lot of the designers
(22:37):
where they say they almost gotinto sacks.
Actually, I used to say Barney'sbecause it was, you know, RIP
Barney's, but I used to get Ialmost got into Barney's and I
said, I almost got into Barney'stoo, but then I went and had
sushi.
Like, you know, it's like youeither are or you're not.
And if you're not, it's for goodreason.
So how how would you handlethose designers that you're
like, God, you're so talented.
(22:58):
I could do so much with you ifyou'd let me.
Like you had to cut your lossesand get over it and be like, you
know what?
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Like I had a designer, for example, who I
thought was very talented.
And we had been contacted by abusinessman.
Um, she was from New Zealand andhe was from New Zealand.
And he was very excited that,you know, there was a little
story about this New Zealanddesigner, and you know, that
(23:25):
that there was someone from, youknow, and he wanted to meet her.
And we had brunch at Barney's,actually, at what was it,
Fred's?
Is that what it was?
Um, yeah.
And he was like, look, you know,and this is literally like just
starting out time, you know, andhe said, All right, well,
tomorrow I'll send a hundredthousand dollars into your
account and let's get started.
(23:46):
And we'll do this 50-50.
And it was like, at the I mean,literally at the time, it was
like tiny, tiny.
And then I I remember having theconversation with her and and
her saying, you know, like, Idon't think that's fair.
Like, why should he get 50% ofmy bill?
I'm like, you understand?
This is someone who's like, forno other reason, other than
(24:07):
you're both from New Zealand andhe wants to help you.
And I think, you know, thiscould be a good opportunity.
And anyway, she didn't do it,and um, she stopped designing
shortly thereafter.
But I really felt like that wassomething that as an example, I
I really felt strongly.
Sometimes it's like, you know,you you just have to know when
(24:28):
is is the right time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
So yeah, when to call it, at least on your end.
It sounds like you have a reallygood sense on how to pull
emotion out of findingsomething.
Like, okay, I gotta let it go,moving on.
Like, I'm not getting water fromthis stone.
I uh next.
That's an interesting skill setto know, like, I'm I'm calling
(24:52):
it.
We're moving on.
Thanks next.
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
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SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also knowing I feel like,you know, for example, Steve
Jobs, you know, like when he wasCEO of Apple, and then he
became, and then he left Applebecause they replaced him with
another CEO.
Right.
And then you're like, how couldthey do that?
It's Steve Jobs.
Like, it's his company.
He knows it better than anybody.
And certainly he does.
But there's like certain timeswhere like you have to allow
(26:50):
people to kind of like step in.
I I had a husband and wife teamthat I I wanted to represent.
I remember at the time.
And uh he was like a verytalented dress designer.
And she was kind of like hislike part of the team, you know,
and it was like but it was likethere she was like the the it
(27:13):
just it was clear that they heneeded to have someone else
represent him.
It was it wasn't wasn't reallyand I and this has happened with
other brands as well, with whenit's just sort of like, but
they're kind of like close orthey're in a relationship or
whatever it is.
And I remember having thatmeeting, and it was very clear
as like that she did not want meto be representing him because
(27:38):
that was her role in therelationship.
So even though like she wasthere at the meeting, like on
the surface about likeinterviewing me, you know, they
never hired anybody because itwas like again, it was clear,
and same thing, they they shutdown the they were huge, and you
would know them if I told you.
Um I'll tell you, I'll tell youoff the record.
(27:58):
But um, but uh anyway, I don'tlike to badness anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
No, it's you know, as someone who started their
brand at 26, and there I thinkthere's there's something to be
said about the evolution ofstarting your first business,
your first brand, your firstartistic way to make money off
of something that you'vecreated.
That a lot of people, even themost resound, logical people,
(28:25):
all that gets thrown out thewindow when they're like, oh,
I'm doing something creative.
It's me, it's my voice, it's myvision.
And they treat the productthey've created and they call it
their baby.
And, you know, it's all heartand soul and emotion and
garmento offspring.
I was always taught there's noemotion in business.
And you know what?
I have three kids, those are mykids.
But now I it's it's very clearto me now, years later, that
(28:48):
what I've created, it's not mybaby, it's a business.
It's a way to copy, paste, makemoney, and it's a gift that I've
been able to do the one, do whatit takes to create it.
But I think dropping ego andrealizing like what's best for
the product that I've created isa very hard pill to swallow.
And you either you can't be theone to take the time to educate
(29:09):
because then that's time valueof money lost on what you do.
So it's I'm sure that's been aninteresting conversation on your
own being like, okay, well, letme know if you change your mind,
you know where to find me.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
I just want to touch on the fact that you've been
able to, you know, you're knownfor discovering lots and lots of
people and lots and lots ofbrands.
Obviously, from where I sit, Ican only speak about the ones
that I know the most.
Why do you think within thescope of handbags, you you
really have this magic touch?
Because there's very few people.
(29:45):
Like there was one particularwoman, and again, not speaking
ill of people or showrooms thatare no longer here, but who was
very well known for picking uphandbag brands and being able to
find she was very expensive,wasn't very good to her
designer.
And therefore, you know, theywould stay until they couldn't.
And then when they couldn't,she'd punish them for it.
(30:06):
Like, okay, you've left me,you've ditched me.
I was the one who discoveredyou.
How are you able to find thesebrands, grow with them, and
still retain and sustain thesekinds of partnerships and
relationships?
Like you're still part ofClaire's brand, if I'm not
mistaken.
Like, how are you able to standthe test of time?
Like, you know, you have yourown life, you have a showroom,
(30:28):
you have a store, you've gotkids.
Like, how are you able to do allof that and say, okay, you, I
want to keep working with you?
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
Well, I thought that the model of the showroom, I
mean, there there is somethingabout that model that I always
thought it would be good to beable to invest in the beginning
with these brands, because, youknow, it is a lot of work,
especially in the first fewyears in terms of building the
business.
That that's kind of likesometimes the most work, you
know, and getting it, and youknow, you know, what has to
(30:58):
happen.
So I think that I mean, for me,it's just well, I don't know how
how else to answer it, really.
SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Well, in terms of, you know, you were able to find
these designers at differenttimes in different stages.
When you said, Okay, I'll investin you.
Did you get pushback?
Did you have to sell them on it?
Or were they like, okay, it'sStephen Albert?
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
No, no, they were very excited about it.
And and in the beginning, Iwasn't even sure that the
showroom should be calledStephen Allen Showroom because I
was like, should it be StephenAllen Showroom?
Because it's really not aboutme, it's about them.
And then I found that thedesigners were like, no, are you
kidding?
Don't change the name fromStephen Allen Showroom.
We like, you know, it's in goodcompany.
Like, and and it really was verycomplimentary.
(31:45):
We never had brands that can Ifelt like competed with other
brands in our showroom.
And I think that getting back toyour first question in terms of
why handbags and what was itabout handbags?
I really think that having grownup in a family where my father
makes jewelry, and I used to goto these shows and accessory
(32:06):
shows, and I obsess over thelittlest details.
I mean, with everything.
I mean, I'm like that.
You know, there was like my wifehad bought a soap dispenser the
other day, and I was like, whatis this?
You know, like it was just likeI didn't like it.
I didn't like the touch of it.
You know, I got rid of it.
It was just like plastic, it wasjust not good, you know.
(32:27):
And did she know it was gonnadisappear?
No, she didn't actually.
I thought that she bought it,but it was just like it was
there from I think we had uh, Idon't know, I think I had a
shoot at the house or something,and someone had brought it.
But anyway, yeah, so I thinkthat's why.
I think it's it's about the withhandbags, it's a small object.
And you know, it to me, there'sa lot of handbags that look very
(32:50):
similar.
And if you don't really get thedetails, if you don't get the
hand of the leather, and youdon't really get the hardware
piece and you know, and wherethe zipper should be and how
it's gonna look on you, youknow, like there's just like
those little things, and itcould be a very simple shape,
but there's one tote that'sright and one tote that's wrong,
(33:11):
and there's like a little clutchthat's right and a little clutch
that's wrong.
So I think that you know, it'sfun to it's fun to look at that.
And um, sometimes with clothing,it's just like so much.
You're looking at so much, and Ifeel like designers are often
forced to reinvent not out of umthis desire necessarily to
(33:32):
create.
I'm talking about like withclothing designers a lot, but
just like, okay, it's a newcollection, so I've got to like
put out all this brand newstuff, right?
And you know, create acollection for this season.
And some designers are able todo it, and it's like amazing.
And I feel like they have thatvision and it still has their
DNA on it.
(33:53):
And then other designers, I feellike, what is this?
Like, if I didn't see the label,I would have no idea that that's
that designer.
And so for me, that's not veryrewarding, is to find brands
like that that are just sort ofchasing chasing fashion.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
Right, right.
How based on you know, your Ithink it's like 20 plus years
that you've been in thebusiness, where do you stand
today?
Oh my god, well, I didn't wantto, I didn't want to triple
digit, well, triple digit,triple it.
I kind of knew that, but didn'twant to say it.
I felt like it was better thatyou said it.
Where does Steven Allen standtoday?
(34:33):
Are you still looking for newtalent?
Have you said, okay, I've beenthere, done that.
I don't need to, I've alreadyhad kids who are in college,
like I I've already done theshowroom thing, I've done the
store thing.
Like it's, you know, very muchwhat Pete and Joy, Peter and Joy
Grayson have done.
Like they went through it, theyhad the freestanding store, and
(34:54):
now they're really, really bigin Korea.
Like they've been able to nextchapter that.
And I can speak to a lot ofthese brands that have gone
through that evolution.
Like, you know, Rebecca Minkoff,she sold a majority stake.
She's still the face of herbrand.
She's still very much involved.
And it's Claire, who I'mobsessed with and her calmness,
(35:16):
like it's almost rattling howcalm she is.
She's so level.
Where do you stand in this wholeevolution of what's going on
today?
And in terms of you and yourbrand.
SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
So I basically expanded, I would say, too fast.
I went from having eight storesto 23 stores.
Um I went from, you know,doubling the showroom.
You know, I went from oneshowroom to two showrooms.
I went uh from working out of mystore to having a corporate
office, you know, 190 employees.
(35:49):
It was kind of crazy for mebecause it was something where I
didn't feel like I was reallylike I didn't know everything
that was going on.
I didn't even know the names ofsome of the people that were
working.
It was kind of it was kind ofamazing and it was kind of
horrible because it was justlike I felt out of control.
And I didn't like feeling out ofcontrol.
And I didn't know if I wouldsurvive it, quite frankly,
(36:12):
because you know, the New Yorkstores, the LA stores, the San
Francisco stores were all reallygood.
And we had uh a really strongfollowing.
And but then we started openingall I mean, all over the country
in states that had no idea whowe were.
And you know, I knew it wouldtake a few years to sort of
become known, like this is whowe're about, what we're about,
(36:35):
and this is our point of viewand stuff.
But you know, the thing aboutretail is retail is not like a
highly profitable entity byitself, you know, like having a
store, there's a lot ofexpenses, rent, salaries,
insurance, build-out, you know,it's a lot.
So when you start opening up alot of stores at once, you know,
(36:57):
which we added 15 stores in twoyears, it's very, very taxing.
And then you get into asituation where if anything goes
wrong, there's not really like,you know, it's one company.
Right.
So, you know, and then ourwebsite went down.
So we just kind of like had likea series of things.
So where we are today is kind oflike, I mean, throughout COVID,
(37:20):
I was online only and I wasshooting everything at my house
and you know, in the backyard,and I was modeling stuff, my son
was modeling stuff, really pareddown the business to mostly
men's shirts and pants.
And and then I wanted to reallyget back to physical retail.
So I opened up a store on 20thStreet in Manhattan in West
(37:42):
Chelsea, kind of where all theart galleries are.
And I thought I wanted a placewhere I could go, and
essentially it would be myoffice, but I can also see
customers.
And that's really what this is.
It's perfect for that becauseit's it's a highly educated
customer.
They love art.
You know, there's all thegalleries uh are here, and you
(38:03):
know, there's a good group ofpeople that are living here as
well.
And so, and I used to have astore on 19th Street, and it was
a good store, so I knew thisarea would be good.
And really, that's what it is.
For me, it's kind of likestarting with that, building the
collection again.
And so, you know, I would sayevery couple months we add
(38:24):
another product that I feel, youknow, like we're doing knits out
of Peru, and we're doingouterwear out of Japan.
And so, you know, things thateven when I had all the stores,
it was difficult to keep adding,you know, right because we had
to do, you know, so muchquantity to fill all the stores
and right, you know.
(38:44):
So anyway, are you fun?
Are you still talking about andum, you know, I haven't really
been doing much consultinglately, but I I I've thought
like maybe I'll get back todoing some consulting.
SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
Are you still talent scouting?
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
Uh not scouting really, but I I find, you know,
the the the niche of this storeis a little bit different.
So essentially it's product thatI make and then it's product
that I find makers thatspecialize in something.
So for example, it could besocks from Japan, it could be
(39:19):
sweaters from Norway, but it'sbasically it's like companies
that are also manufacturers ofthat particular product and they
excel in that particular thing.
So that's how I'm complementingwhat it is that I'm making.
And I think it really feels, youknow, quite different because of
that.
So it's a very edited, you know,curated little shop.
(39:41):
And then in addition to that, Ihave a lot of jewelry, new and
vintage jewelry that uh some ismade from, you know, my father
who still makes jewelry, andsome, you know, are vintage
pieces and so forth.
SPEAKER_01 (39:55):
Are you content being men's focused?
SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
Uh we're going, we're adding uh we're starting
with women's shirts.
You're going back as a as a newcategory, but we're just doing
it, you know, step by step.
There's no rush, and I don'tneed to do a collection.
So, you know, as we get, youknow, the more requests we get
for certain things, then we'llgo back into different
categories and so forth.
SPEAKER_01 (40:18):
Is your customer as obsessed with social media if
they're that educated?
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Is that really I think everyone is kind of on
social media, but I I I I feellike it's not like super, super
young.
I mean, we do get customers intheir 20s, but I would say
that's not our main, our maincustomer base, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Steven, this has been an absolute delight.
I'm so grateful that I was ableto find you quite literally
corner you, because that's whereyou are.
You are in a corner.
How can we find you, follow you,get more information about the
inimitable Stephen Allen?
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Well, I mean, the website, if you join the mailing
list, you'll get information,just stephenallen.com, and then
our Instagram.
We're not that active becauseI'm not that active on social.
So but I hope to be more.
But anyway, we we will beposting on our Instagram
account.
But uh it's not uh we're notwe're not a brand that's like
(41:15):
highly social media focused forbetter or for worse, right now.
Right.
Yeah, we definitely recognizethe importance.
It's just I'm really my focus isreally on product and making
great product, and and ourexisting customers, you know,
luckily are great and they'revery supportive.
And I think that the newcustomers that we get are mostly
(41:37):
through existing customers, youknow, it's sort of like a
word-of-mouth brand.
SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
So that is amazing.
So it's T-E-V S T E S T E V N LA L A N.
I can't even spell anymore.
Steven with the V, Al and allA's just for everybody
listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
SPEAKER_02 (41:58):
Sure.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (42:00):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
And then and then when it all sort of clicked in
(00:02):
the store, when it was like, oh,this is what I need to do.
I need to be discovering brands,not just like going to trade
shows and like what is beingdished out there, you know, for
retailers.
I need to actually be more uhinstrumental in terms of like
choosing and and that that'swhen it really started to
(00:22):
switch.
That's when the articles startedcoming out about clothing and
and everything else.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert, and the handbag parrygodmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love from
the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(00:49):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Steven Allen, toHandbag Designer 101 the
podcast.
I feel like I'm with uh founderroyalty here.
Thank you for joining us today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Very welcome.
Thanks for having me on yourshow.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Yes.
I told you we go way back.
You said you remembered, but Idon't think you really did.
But you did speak on one of theindustry panels that I had had
years back.
I think you were on it withmaybe Gary Wasner and Richard
Kessenbaum.
I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was mine.
So that's good.
All right.
Yeah.
But it's I have had thefortunate pleasure to speak with
many, if almost, almost all, buttwo so far.
I've got two left of people thatyou have discovered, put on the
(01:51):
map, taken to the next level.
You know, what made these peoplego from nobody to somebody?
So if I can do this, andobviously not in discovery order
order, we've Monica Bach here,Joy and Peter Gryson, Claire
Vivigay, aka Glare V, and nowI'm missing Foley and Karina and
Loffler Randall.
(02:11):
Am I missing anybody else?
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
I mean, there was definitely other handbag
designers, but I don't thinkanyone that really comes to mind
that I feel like is someone thatuh yeah.
It wasn't really our our mainfocus in the showroom either.
It was just something that wedid in conjunction with
clothing.
But it was definitely a big partof what we did, you know,
working with these differentbrands.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
So you like had this prolific showroom.
And I started my handbag brandin the early 2000s, and it uh it
did not go where everybody else,everybody else's brand, but I am
really good at finding peopleand discovering people and
talking to people.
That's my strength, building myown personal handbag brand at
the time, not so much.
(02:54):
I'm good on the sidelines andelevating, and that's become
what my MO is with the handbagawards and everything else
within this community of handbagdesigners.
But you started a showroom, butwhy did you start a showroom?
Like what led us all the way togetting to the showroom
narrative?
(03:14):
Because that's that's realestate, that's taking on brands,
that's like having to have otherpeople get their act together
that you need to rely on forthem to do their thing, for you
to make money.
Like, how did this all come tobe?
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Well, when I started, uh, you know, I started
the store and I and I had kindof like uh no limits in terms of
categories that I wanted to sellin the store, but my store was
tiny.
You know, I was starting outright out of college, and I
found a store, you know, in thisarea of Soho that was really
kind of neglected.
There was graffiti all over theoutside of the building, bars on
(03:48):
the windows, you couldn't evenlook into the store.
And I was like, okay, this isthe spot, you know, and it was
really cheap.
It was like$2,500 a month rentat the time, and uh like
probably 500 square feet.
And so I did that, and I reallyknew the accessory business
pretty well.
I I didn't know the clothingbusiness well at that time, and
(04:10):
I'm not trained as a designer,you know.
I I, you know, I grew up withparents that are in retail, and
I have been to a lot of tradeshows and so forth.
But anyway, it it was somethingthat I I really liked and I had
a strong and I used to getfrustrated when people would
write about the store and theywould mention, you know, all the
(04:31):
great, you know, great commentsabout the accessories and
jewelry and stuff like that, butthey wouldn't mention the
clothing.
I was like, why aren't theymentioning the clothing?
And then I realized that I wasjust going to the trade shows,
you know, and buying like otherbuyers and finding brands at the
trade shows.
And that really wasn'tsatisfying.
Whereas with jewelry and withsome handbags, you know, like
(04:52):
and and accessories, I kind ofhad this almost like inside
knowledge because I knew thesepeople and I knew friends of
these people.
And it was it was very earlystage when I started
representing them.
And so eventually I really foundthat, you know, through the
accessory brands, they hadfriends that were clothing
designers, and then that kind ofbuilt up.
(05:14):
And it was frustrating in thebeginning because we were
getting a lot of press and wewere getting a lot of stores
coming into the store, and theywould be like, you know, like
they might as well have like apencil and a paper, you know, in
their hands, you know, takingnotes.
And it was just like oneverything.
And then some of the brandswould call me and they'd be
(05:37):
like, Oh, we were contacted.
Because at that point, it waslike there was no showrooms
really representing these kindsof designers.
The the showrooms were like inthe garment center, and you kind
of like had to be doing millionsof dollars for the most part for
a lot of these showrooms to evenrepresent you.
Right, right, right.
And so they had asked me if Iwould represent them because
(05:58):
what was happening is they weregetting contacted by stores, and
the store could have been liketwo blocks for me.
And I was like, you can't sellto that store, they're two
blocks for me.
Like it's completely a conflict,you know, like it takes the
specialness out.
Right.
And then I thought about it andI thought, okay, well, you know,
it's not good for the body.
(06:18):
Yeah, it's not good for me, butit's also not good for the
brand.
Right.
You know, like they need to haveclean distribution and be able
to find the best stores to workwith.
And, you know, the best storesare not necessarily the same for
every brand.
You know, like one store couldbe maybe objectively better than
another store, but that storemight not give the brand true
(06:38):
space on the floor and be reallybehind it.
And the uh, you know, storenumber two might be also a good
store, maybe not quite as good,but it could be better for that
brand.
Anyway, I thought, okay, I cancombine this with what I'm doing
and open a showroom.
And so the second the mezzanineof that particular store, as
(06:58):
small as it was, was theshowroom.
And I started, you know,representing uh designers.
Uh in the beginning, it was likeRebecca Danenberg, Milk Fed,
built by Wendy Cake, PixieYates, like those were the
initial kind of lineup.
And then what happened was wereally outgrew that space.
And I thought, okay, I need abig showroom.
(07:19):
But again, it was sort of like,you know, me financing the whole
business.
So I was like, okay, I have tomove my apartment.
I'll just get a new apartmentand that'll be my showroom.
So I found a loft and Soho, andI lived in the back.
I built a wall and then I hadthe showroom in the front, and
we built that out.
And then, you know, eventuallyafter 9-11 happened, I thought,
(07:43):
you know what, it would be goodto have a bigger store and a
place where it could also be myshowroom.
And it sort of made sensebecause rents at that time,
obviously, they were very cheapdowntown.
And so, yeah.
So I was able to get a good dealfor the first uh couple of years
on a space, and I startedrepresenting designers in the
(08:03):
basement, and then I had mystore on the first floor.
And I thought maybe eventuallythis will be busier than my Soho
location.
And then I'll just moveeverything.
But like within six months, itwas busier, despite it being
like ground zero.
So I closed the Soho store,focused on the Tribeca store,
and then eventually we reallyneeded that basement space for
(08:26):
storage.
And so I took another space onFranklin Street, which became
the showroom.
And yeah, I started representingall these designers, and we had
anywhere from 15 to 20 brands atany given time.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
So I I like this this this is quite the quite the
journey, but you said you openedup the store right out of
college and you grew up withparents in retail.
What was that?
Like, what was like, hey, I'vejust spent four years learning,
going to school, getting adegree.
You know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna open up a store.
Like, how did all that come tobe?
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
Because that's not everybody's that's not what
everybody's I knew I wasn'tgonna go work on Wall Street and
I knew I wasn't like gonna havesome sort of a desk job.
And in college, I was studyingundergraduate business.
It was this entrepreneurshipprogram at USC.
And and I wrote my business planon kind of like the idea of I
mean, really, it was it I wasinterested in real estate and
(09:24):
and and entrepreneurship.
And at the time I was thinkingabout like developing a
neighborhood and taking severalstores, you know, like imagine
having 10 stores on one block oryou know, around the block kind
of thing, and sort of creating aneighborhood where rents would
be cheap.
And at the time I was thinkinglike the lower east side would
make sense because stores werelike a thousand to two thousand
(09:47):
a month.
And it it was actually doable,not not by me, but if I had a uh
investor at the time, I Ithought this could be great.
And then I would have, and thenI would be overseeing different
people running each shop.
So I'd find the best shoe shop,and that would be like Stephen
on shoes, and the best bakerywould be Stephen on Bakery, so
(10:07):
forth, and um, you know, sort ofcreating a neighborhood.
So that was the idea.
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
The neighborhood of Steven.
SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
Yeah, yeah.
I thought it would be really funto do, and you know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
What did your parents do?
SPEAKER_02 (10:21):
Uh my father's a jewelry designer, and my mother
and my father had uh storesgrowing up.
They started out uh on 57thStreet for like 13 years, and
then they tore the buildingdown, then they moved to 60th,
and then they had a second storeon Columbus Avenue.
And so after I graduated, I wasuh managing their store.
(10:43):
And then I started buying andselling like collectible
watches, and then that businessI saved up money from that
business to open the firststore.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
So you uh did you grow you grew up in New York
City then?
You went to high school here andeverything?
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Yeah.
I actually went to an art highschool where they have fashion
as a major.
It's called the High School ofArt and Design.
Mark Jacobs and Calvin Kleinwent there.
And but funny enough, I I nevertook one fashion class.
I I always found it kind ofpretentious.
So I was a photography and thenswitched to film and video uh
major.
(11:19):
And then I thought, okay, Ishould study business in college
because I'm not gonna studyphotography anymore because I I
already was developing my ownpictures and I kind of like knew
whatever I needed to know uh todo that.
And then um, yeah, and then Ihad just thought the the storm
made a lot of sense when Igraduated.
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
Did your parents have any have any opinion of you
quote unquote staying in thebusiness?
Because as Garmento offspringmyself, uh, when I ended up
starting my own handbag brand,and my dad was a converter, my
whole life was in the GarminCenter.
And I remember telling him that.
And he's like, biggest mistake,biggest mistake, don't do it,
(12:02):
don't do it.
Nobody makes any money.
There's no point.
I mean, I grew up with peacegoods and understanding bad lab
dips and uh, you know, we grewup wearing seconds and closeouts
and jeans that had mismatchedlegs and socks that were, you
know, one was dyed differentlythan the other.
And the whole construct of goinginto that business, as far as
(12:22):
they were concerned, was like,what's wrong with you?
Like you have choices.
You went to college, you don'tneed to, you don't need to be
doing this.
Did they have opinions?
And by the way, the fact thatyou had entrepreneurship, I
mean, when I was getting my MBA,they had a very, very, very
small entrepreneurship program.
So having entrepreneurship wayback when was perceived, okay,
(12:45):
you're opening up your ownbusiness.
That's cute.
Like, why do you need a titlefor it?
So, did they have opinions andthoughts?
Didn't did that impact you?
Because they're either all forit or all against it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Yeah.
I mean, that was the onelanguage that they really spoke
was retail.
And um, throughout my entirelife, I mean, they they had
worked six days a week or sevenas at a lot of times.
So it was something like had Itold them I was going into
anything else, they would theywould probably not really
relate.
But they definitely understoodretail and they definitely knew
(13:17):
that I I had a feeling for it.
I've always loved product and umboth buying product, you know,
found finding brands, and thendesigning product.
Those are my two favorite, theythey still are my two favorite
things.
And I would say that um, youknow, in the business, that's
definitely what I focus on themost.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
So there is something to be said about
because I assume you worked inthe store z growing up, like you
had no it it was kind ofunderstood, like, okay, you're
gonna come work here and you'regonna come find it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
It wasn't it wasn't understood that I was gonna go
into their business at all.
No.
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
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(14:17):
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But did you work there throughhigh school?
You were working there throughhigh school, no?
SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
No, no, I wasn't.
I I would go in there, you know,and I I would go with them like
on a Sunday if there was a tradeshow.
I would go with them because itwas like there was nothing else
to do.
So that I would do, but I neverthought that I would be going
into their business.
And it's funny enough, I have abrother who's three years
younger, and he definitely wasnot going to go into retail,
(14:47):
like he was like went toHarvard, studied visual and
environmental studies.
And uh the last thing I wouldhave ever thought he would have
done is gone into retail.
And he lives in Paris, and um,he's got restaurants there.
So he's also in retail.
So it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
You know, I I read this study, and I've spoken
about this before, that one wayor another, what your parents
have done has such a deepimprint on who you are that you
could try to escape it, butwithout fail, you will end up
following in their footsteps orreplicating their footprint in
(15:23):
some capacity just because it'sso ingrained in you without even
being aware that like, I don'twant to do this, I don't want to
do this, but I guess I am doingthis.
Well, I'm really good at it.
Well, I've been exposed to it,and all this stuff makes sense
and it's low-hanging fruit.
And I guess I am passionateabout it because I get it,
because I've seen it my wholelife.
It's it's interesting how allthat kind of comes to be,
(15:43):
especially when you were sayingthat in your store the jewelry
was doing well, and you're like,what about the apparel?
But yet you'd grown up withjewelry anyway.
So you clearly had asensitivity, uh, had a had a
sense of what could sell becauseyou've been around it so much.
Do you think that's the case?
SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
Definitely.
And then and then when it allsort of clicked in the store,
when it was like, oh, this iswhat I need to do.
I need to be discovering brands,not just like going to trade
shows and like what is beingdished out there, you know, for
retailers.
I need to actually be more uhinstrumental in terms of like
choosing and and that that'swhen it really started to
(16:23):
switch.
That's when the articles startedcoming out about clothing and
and everything else.
And then it was it was a knownthing.
I mean, we we were selling whenI opened the showroom, I think I
had like 750 accounts all overthe world.
So we were selling to departmentstores, specialty stores, and it
was very easy, you know.
(16:43):
Like when I saw a brand that Ithought had potential, it was
like okay.
It was kind of like I Ivisualized it, like it was clear
to me that they would besuccessful, and I knew what I
needed to do to make thathappen.
And it didn't matter if thebrand had a huge collection or
had like you know, 10 pieces or10 items or or whatever.
(17:08):
It was more about the DNA of thebrand.
And if I could see that theyreally had their own point of
view, you know, like someonelike Claire, it was very clear.
She came in with, you know, likea bag of bags.
Like literally, it was like theyall fit in one bag.
And uh she's like, Yeah, I sewedthese myself.
(17:30):
And I remember I showed it to myshowroom director at the time,
and um, she was like, Steven,come on, this is like five bags.
Like, are you serious?
And I was like, No, no, no.
She has talent.
This is gonna be huge.
And um, she's like, Okay, I'mgonna do it because it's your
showroom and you're saying to doit, but mark my words, you know,
(17:52):
whatever, something like that.
And um, and I was like, Okay.
And uh, and you know, it it wasobviously it's it is, and um,
she's fantastic, and she's justkept sort of refining it and
really has her own language andDNA about the brand.
I mean, uh for for Rosoli tocome out with a book um I know
(18:14):
two years ago, you know, on ahandbag design.
Yeah, you know, that's that'syeah, that's that's that's
something.
SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
Can I ask you though, having worked with so
many independent designers, howand and with the awards, you
know, and purely because I'vedealt with so many and so many
who've won, and I could seetheir talent and I could see
what they're capable of, andthey have a clear vision and a
clear voice.
But I've called this basement toBeyonce, where they get a little
(18:43):
bit of attention and they get aspotlight.
And then all of a sudden, youknow, you have to educate them
on pricing and realizing likebecause they lack economies of
scale, their product are way tooexpensive.
And you have to educate them.
And it's very confusing andfrustrating when you're like,
(19:03):
I'm here to help you.
I'm here to help you grow.
I'm offering you resources,opportunities, retail.
Like, I can help you, like, butyou're gonna get in your own
way.
You're the one who's gonna stopyour own your own success.
How have you dealt with that?
Because look, out of that's likeeight designers, right?
We have who are prolific.
Like Claire Vivier, aka Claire Vis, I feel like very unique.
(19:29):
She's very calm, she's verythoughtful, she's very focused,
she's very much no ego, right?
It's one of the things thatmakes her such a unique person
that she really has somethingspecial about her in that
regard.
How did you deal with designersthat you were like, oh, you
know, if only, if only, if only,and I gotta let it go.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Yeah, I mean, I did I dealt with them a lot.
I mean, I was on the board ofthe CFDA uh the missions board,
you know, so I dealt withdesigners that were applying to
the CFDA.
I also mentored brands for awhile, and and you would see it,
and you'd see certain brandsthat were really drawn to the to
the spotlight, and that wastheir focus.
And some brands were brands thatlike should be that's what they
(20:15):
do, that's what they do well.
They do these amazing fashionshows, they're great with the
press.
They sort of and then there'sother brands though, like, why
are you spending this money on ashow?
You know, you need to just spendthe money on the collection,
like, don't, you know, and itwas just sort of like, you know,
hiring PR companies, then payingridiculous amounts of money for
(20:37):
a lot of these brands, you know,when it wasn't really warranted
yet, you know, like so anyway, Iuh there was all kinds of things
that that you would see, youknow, doing that.
And um, you know, a lot of timesit was it was I would meet with
brands even before, you know,like when Montre Gabriel
started, like I met with thembefore they even had a bag, you
(21:00):
know, and they asked me, youknow, what would you what would
we do?
And it was it was at an artparty, and I think we were I
mean we were their first uhaccount, I believe.
And I think there was um, yeah,I mean, from being in our store,
they were in then in Bergdorf'sand other, you know, everyone
else kind of picked them up.
But uh yeah, I I don't know.
(21:21):
I I got I got off the subject,but yeah, so so being in the
CFDA, I definitely saw a lot ofthis with brands.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Had you dealt with someone that you thought was
going to be like a star student,and then you saw that they got
blinded by the spotlight.
Like again, you hit the nail onthe head.
I've it's like within thehandbag designer masterclass
that I teach purely forindependent designers, because
I'd worked with them for solong.
(21:52):
And then the same questions keptcoming up over and over and over
and over again that I'm like,okay, let me just templatize it.
If you want to pay for it, it'sthere.
Like here, find your audience,go through your chasm, your
customer, your agony, solutionmonetization, understanding who
your customer is on a deeperlevel.
So before you go spending moneyand thinking, I need to pay for
(22:13):
a publicist, I need to pay for asales rep, I need a show, I need
overhead.
It's like, what's your hero bag?
What's your collection?
You know, what's your DNA?
How are you going to grow this?
Like, what's the one bag thatyou know is going to sell over
and over and over again?
Have you figured out pricing?
Like, who do you match up with?
And I I had this ongoing jokewith a lot of the designers
(22:37):
where they say they almost gotinto sacks.
Actually, I used to say Barney'sbecause it was, you know, RIP
Barney's, but I used to get Ialmost got into Barney's and I
said, I almost got into Barney'stoo, but then I went and had
sushi.
Like, you know, it's like youeither are or you're not.
And if you're not, it's for goodreason.
So how how would you handlethose designers that you're
like, God, you're so talented.
(22:58):
I could do so much with you ifyou'd let me.
Like you had to cut your lossesand get over it and be like, you
know what?
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Like I had a designer, for example, who I
thought was very talented.
And we had been contacted by abusinessman.
Um, she was from New Zealand andhe was from New Zealand.
And he was very excited that,you know, there was a little
story about this New Zealanddesigner, and you know, that
(23:25):
that there was someone from, youknow, and he wanted to meet her.
And we had brunch at Barney's,actually, at what was it,
Fred's?
Is that what it was?
Um, yeah.
And he was like, look, you know,and this is literally like just
starting out time, you know, andhe said, All right, well,
tomorrow I'll send a hundredthousand dollars into your
account and let's get started.
(23:46):
And we'll do this 50-50.
And it was like, at the I mean,literally at the time, it was
like tiny, tiny.
And then I I remember having theconversation with her and and
her saying, you know, like, Idon't think that's fair.
Like, why should he get 50% ofmy bill?
I'm like, you understand?
This is someone who's like, forno other reason, other than
(24:07):
you're both from New Zealand andhe wants to help you.
And I think, you know, thiscould be a good opportunity.
And anyway, she didn't do it,and um, she stopped designing
shortly thereafter.
But I really felt like that wassomething that as an example, I
I really felt strongly.
Sometimes it's like, you know,you you just have to know when
(24:28):
is is the right time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
So yeah, when to call it, at least on your end.
It sounds like you have a reallygood sense on how to pull
emotion out of findingsomething.
Like, okay, I gotta let it go,moving on.
Like, I'm not getting water fromthis stone.
I uh next.
That's an interesting skill setto know, like, I'm I'm calling
(24:52):
it.
We're moving on.
Thanks next.
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
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SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also knowing I feel like,you know, for example, Steve
Jobs, you know, like when he wasCEO of Apple, and then he
became, and then he left Applebecause they replaced him with
another CEO.
Right.
And then you're like, how couldthey do that?
It's Steve Jobs.
Like, it's his company.
He knows it better than anybody.
And certainly he does.
But there's like certain timeswhere like you have to allow
(26:50):
people to kind of like step in.
I I had a husband and wife teamthat I I wanted to represent.
I remember at the time.
And uh he was like a verytalented dress designer.
And she was kind of like hislike part of the team, you know,
and it was like but it was likethere she was like the the it
(27:13):
just it was clear that they heneeded to have someone else
represent him.
It was it wasn't wasn't reallyand I and this has happened with
other brands as well, with whenit's just sort of like, but
they're kind of like close orthey're in a relationship or
whatever it is.
And I remember having thatmeeting, and it was very clear
as like that she did not want meto be representing him because
(27:38):
that was her role in therelationship.
So even though like she wasthere at the meeting, like on
the surface about likeinterviewing me, you know, they
never hired anybody because itwas like again, it was clear,
and same thing, they they shutdown the they were huge, and you
would know them if I told you.
Um I'll tell you, I'll tell youoff the record.
(27:58):
But um, but uh anyway, I don'tlike to badness anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
No, it's you know, as someone who started their
brand at 26, and there I thinkthere's there's something to be
said about the evolution ofstarting your first business,
your first brand, your firstartistic way to make money off
of something that you'vecreated.
That a lot of people, even themost resound, logical people,
(28:25):
all that gets thrown out thewindow when they're like, oh,
I'm doing something creative.
It's me, it's my voice, it's myvision.
And they treat the productthey've created and they call it
their baby.
And, you know, it's all heartand soul and emotion and
garmento offspring.
I was always taught there's noemotion in business.
And you know what?
I have three kids, those are mykids.
But now I it's it's very clearto me now, years later, that
(28:48):
what I've created, it's not mybaby, it's a business.
It's a way to copy, paste, makemoney, and it's a gift that I've
been able to do the one, do whatit takes to create it.
But I think dropping ego andrealizing like what's best for
the product that I've created isa very hard pill to swallow.
And you either you can't be theone to take the time to educate
(29:09):
because then that's time valueof money lost on what you do.
So it's I'm sure that's been aninteresting conversation on your
own being like, okay, well, letme know if you change your mind,
you know where to find me.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
I just want to touch on the fact that you've been
able to, you know, you're knownfor discovering lots and lots of
people and lots and lots ofbrands.
Obviously, from where I sit, Ican only speak about the ones
that I know the most.
Why do you think within thescope of handbags, you you
really have this magic touch?
Because there's very few people.
(29:45):
Like there was one particularwoman, and again, not speaking
ill of people or showrooms thatare no longer here, but who was
very well known for picking uphandbag brands and being able to
find she was very expensive,wasn't very good to her
designer.
And therefore, you know, theywould stay until they couldn't.
And then when they couldn't,she'd punish them for it.
(30:06):
Like, okay, you've left me,you've ditched me.
I was the one who discoveredyou.
How are you able to find thesebrands, grow with them, and
still retain and sustain thesekinds of partnerships and
relationships?
Like you're still part ofClaire's brand, if I'm not
mistaken.
Like, how are you able to standthe test of time?
Like, you know, you have yourown life, you have a showroom,
(30:28):
you have a store, you've gotkids.
Like, how are you able to do allof that and say, okay, you, I
want to keep working with you?
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
Well, I thought that the model of the showroom, I
mean, there there is somethingabout that model that I always
thought it would be good to beable to invest in the beginning
with these brands, because, youknow, it is a lot of work,
especially in the first fewyears in terms of building the
business.
That that's kind of likesometimes the most work, you
know, and getting it, and youknow, you know, what has to
(30:58):
happen.
So I think that I mean, for me,it's just well, I don't know how
how else to answer it, really.
SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Well, in terms of, you know, you were able to find
these designers at differenttimes in different stages.
When you said, Okay, I'll investin you.
Did you get pushback?
Did you have to sell them on it?
Or were they like, okay, it'sStephen Albert?
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
No, no, they were very excited about it.
And and in the beginning, Iwasn't even sure that the
showroom should be calledStephen Allen Showroom because I
was like, should it be StephenAllen Showroom?
Because it's really not aboutme, it's about them.
And then I found that thedesigners were like, no, are you
kidding?
Don't change the name fromStephen Allen Showroom.
We like, you know, it's in goodcompany.
Like, and and it really was verycomplimentary.
(31:45):
We never had brands that can Ifelt like competed with other
brands in our showroom.
And I think that getting back toyour first question in terms of
why handbags and what was itabout handbags?
I really think that having grownup in a family where my father
makes jewelry, and I used to goto these shows and accessory
(32:06):
shows, and I obsess over thelittlest details.
I mean, with everything.
I mean, I'm like that.
You know, there was like my wifehad bought a soap dispenser the
other day, and I was like, whatis this?
You know, like it was just likeI didn't like it.
I didn't like the touch of it.
You know, I got rid of it.
It was just like plastic, it wasjust not good, you know.
(32:27):
And did she know it was gonnadisappear?
No, she didn't actually.
I thought that she bought it,but it was just like it was
there from I think we had uh, Idon't know, I think I had a
shoot at the house or something,and someone had brought it.
But anyway, yeah, so I thinkthat's why.
I think it's it's about the withhandbags, it's a small object.
And you know, it to me, there'sa lot of handbags that look very
(32:50):
similar.
And if you don't really get thedetails, if you don't get the
hand of the leather, and youdon't really get the hardware
piece and you know, and wherethe zipper should be and how
it's gonna look on you, youknow, like there's just like
those little things, and itcould be a very simple shape,
but there's one tote that'sright and one tote that's wrong,
(33:11):
and there's like a little clutchthat's right and a little clutch
that's wrong.
So I think that you know, it'sfun to it's fun to look at that.
And um, sometimes with clothing,it's just like so much.
You're looking at so much, and Ifeel like designers are often
forced to reinvent not out of umthis desire necessarily to
(33:32):
create.
I'm talking about like withclothing designers a lot, but
just like, okay, it's a newcollection, so I've got to like
put out all this brand newstuff, right?
And you know, create acollection for this season.
And some designers are able todo it, and it's like amazing.
And I feel like they have thatvision and it still has their
DNA on it.
(33:53):
And then other designers, I feellike, what is this?
Like, if I didn't see the label,I would have no idea that that's
that designer.
And so for me, that's not veryrewarding, is to find brands
like that that are just sort ofchasing chasing fashion.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
Right, right.
How based on you know, your Ithink it's like 20 plus years
that you've been in thebusiness, where do you stand
today?
Oh my god, well, I didn't wantto, I didn't want to triple
digit, well, triple digit,triple it.
I kind of knew that, but didn'twant to say it.
I felt like it was better thatyou said it.
Where does Steven Allen standtoday?
(34:33):
Are you still looking for newtalent?
Have you said, okay, I've beenthere, done that.
I don't need to, I've alreadyhad kids who are in college,
like I I've already done theshowroom thing, I've done the
store thing.
Like it's, you know, very muchwhat Pete and Joy, Peter and Joy
Grayson have done.
Like they went through it, theyhad the freestanding store, and
(34:54):
now they're really, really bigin Korea.
Like they've been able to nextchapter that.
And I can speak to a lot ofthese brands that have gone
through that evolution.
Like, you know, Rebecca Minkoff,she sold a majority stake.
She's still the face of herbrand.
She's still very much involved.
And it's Claire, who I'mobsessed with and her calmness,
(35:16):
like it's almost rattling howcalm she is.
She's so level.
Where do you stand in this wholeevolution of what's going on
today?
And in terms of you and yourbrand.
SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
So I basically expanded, I would say, too fast.
I went from having eight storesto 23 stores.
Um I went from, you know,doubling the showroom.
You know, I went from oneshowroom to two showrooms.
I went uh from working out of mystore to having a corporate
office, you know, 190 employees.
(35:49):
It was kind of crazy for mebecause it was something where I
didn't feel like I was reallylike I didn't know everything
that was going on.
I didn't even know the names ofsome of the people that were
working.
It was kind of it was kind ofamazing and it was kind of
horrible because it was justlike I felt out of control.
And I didn't like feeling out ofcontrol.
And I didn't know if I wouldsurvive it, quite frankly,
(36:12):
because you know, the New Yorkstores, the LA stores, the San
Francisco stores were all reallygood.
And we had uh a really strongfollowing.
And but then we started openingall I mean, all over the country
in states that had no idea whowe were.
And you know, I knew it wouldtake a few years to sort of
become known, like this is whowe're about, what we're about,
(36:35):
and this is our point of viewand stuff.
But you know, the thing aboutretail is retail is not like a
highly profitable entity byitself, you know, like having a
store, there's a lot ofexpenses, rent, salaries,
insurance, build-out, you know,it's a lot.
So when you start opening up alot of stores at once, you know,
(36:57):
which we added 15 stores in twoyears, it's very, very taxing.
And then you get into asituation where if anything goes
wrong, there's not really like,you know, it's one company.
Right.
So, you know, and then ourwebsite went down.
So we just kind of like had likea series of things.
So where we are today is kind oflike, I mean, throughout COVID,
(37:20):
I was online only and I wasshooting everything at my house
and you know, in the backyard,and I was modeling stuff, my son
was modeling stuff, really pareddown the business to mostly
men's shirts and pants.
And and then I wanted to reallyget back to physical retail.
So I opened up a store on 20thStreet in Manhattan in West
(37:42):
Chelsea, kind of where all theart galleries are.
And I thought I wanted a placewhere I could go, and
essentially it would be myoffice, but I can also see
customers.
And that's really what this is.
It's perfect for that becauseit's it's a highly educated
customer.
They love art.
You know, there's all thegalleries uh are here, and you
(38:03):
know, there's a good group ofpeople that are living here as
well.
And so, and I used to have astore on 19th Street, and it was
a good store, so I knew thisarea would be good.
And really, that's what it is.
For me, it's kind of likestarting with that, building the
collection again.
And so, you know, I would sayevery couple months we add
(38:24):
another product that I feel, youknow, like we're doing knits out
of Peru, and we're doingouterwear out of Japan.
And so, you know, things thateven when I had all the stores,
it was difficult to keep adding,you know, right because we had
to do, you know, so muchquantity to fill all the stores
and right, you know.
(38:44):
So anyway, are you fun?
Are you still talking about andum, you know, I haven't really
been doing much consultinglately, but I I I've thought
like maybe I'll get back todoing some consulting.
SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
Are you still talent scouting?
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
Uh not scouting really, but I I find, you know,
the the the niche of this storeis a little bit different.
So essentially it's product thatI make and then it's product
that I find makers thatspecialize in something.
So for example, it could besocks from Japan, it could be
(39:19):
sweaters from Norway, but it'sbasically it's like companies
that are also manufacturers ofthat particular product and they
excel in that particular thing.
So that's how I'm complementingwhat it is that I'm making.
And I think it really feels, youknow, quite different because of
that.
So it's a very edited, you know,curated little shop.
(39:41):
And then in addition to that, Ihave a lot of jewelry, new and
vintage jewelry that uh some ismade from, you know, my father
who still makes jewelry, andsome, you know, are vintage
pieces and so forth.
SPEAKER_01 (39:55):
Are you content being men's focused?
SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
Uh we're going, we're adding uh we're starting
with women's shirts.
You're going back as a as a newcategory, but we're just doing
it, you know, step by step.
There's no rush, and I don'tneed to do a collection.
So, you know, as we get, youknow, the more requests we get
for certain things, then we'llgo back into different
categories and so forth.
SPEAKER_01 (40:18):
Is your customer as obsessed with social media if
they're that educated?
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Is that really I think everyone is kind of on
social media, but I I I I feellike it's not like super, super
young.
I mean, we do get customers intheir 20s, but I would say
that's not our main, our maincustomer base, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Steven, this has been an absolute delight.
I'm so grateful that I was ableto find you quite literally
corner you, because that's whereyou are.
You are in a corner.
How can we find you, follow you,get more information about the
inimitable Stephen Allen?
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Well, I mean, the website, if you join the mailing
list, you'll get information,just stephenallen.com, and then
our Instagram.
We're not that active becauseI'm not that active on social.
So but I hope to be more.
But anyway, we we will beposting on our Instagram
account.
But uh it's not uh we're notwe're not a brand that's like
(41:15):
highly social media focused forbetter or for worse, right now.
Right.
Yeah, we definitely recognizethe importance.
It's just I'm really my focus isreally on product and making
great product, and and ourexisting customers, you know,
luckily are great and they'revery supportive.
And I think that the newcustomers that we get are mostly
(41:37):
through existing customers, youknow, it's sort of like a
word-of-mouth brand.
SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
So that is amazing.
So it's T-E-V S T E S T E V N LA L A N.
I can't even spell anymore.
Steven with the V, Al and allA's just for everybody
listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
SPEAKER_02 (41:58):
Sure.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (42:00):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
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