When Jessy Dover sewed her own hot pink prom dress from Walmart fabric, she had no idea it would spark the vision for Dagne Dover—now one of the most functional (and stylish) handbag brands on the market.
In this episode, Jessy shares her journey from Parsons to co-founding a powerhouse trio with Melissa Mash and Deepa Gandhi. From winning a Coach design competition with zero handbag experience to building a company culture where feedback actually works, Jesse proves that scrappy beats perfect—and color is anything but soft.
💡 Key Takeaways
- Solve real problems first—then design.
- Find partners who challenge and complement you.
- Color = quiet rebellion.
- Why translating feedback matters more than giving it.
🎧 Listen now for one of the most refreshingly honest convos in fashion today.
Our Guest:
Jessy Dover is the co-founder and creative director of Dagne Dover. A Parsons grad with a passion for functional design, she brings a refreshingly practical approach to fashion—grounded in problem-solving, emotional intelligence, and a fearless use of color.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Physical space to design that is protected is very
important for the designprocess to happen.
Right Leadership is reallyimportant, like obviously really
important, but in likedeciphering the information
that's important to come fromthe sales team to the marketing
team Like, for example, I wouldnot have, like, the head of my
(00:23):
sales team come in and tell mydesign team exactly what they
want because it's not going toland like the way that it needs
to.
But if I get that informationand I know what I need to know
from my marketing and sales andbusiness teams, I can give them
that information in a way thatcan be received and implemented
(00:45):
into future designs.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, emilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(01:09):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Welcome, Jessie Dover , the one and only the one of
the thruple of Dagny Dover.
Thank you so very much forjoining Handbag Designer 101,
the podcast.
It is an honor and pleasure and, shockingly enough, this is our
first official time talking.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, it's very nice to meet you officially in person
.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I know Well quasi person over Zoom.
But yeah, I know I am numberone, very excited to chat with
you.
We were pre-chatting, like wewere pre-gaming, and I had to
put a stop to it because it wasjust getting so interesting that
we go through an hour withouteven recording.
But I want to.
As we spoke about, you are oneof three and typically you are
(02:05):
the one who seems to be thechatty one amongst the
interviews and so forth, but Iam very much aware that you went
straight from designing to.
I have an idea with two otherpeople, let's do this.
So that's ballsy man how andthe why.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I always wanted to start my own brand.
That was just sort of like Iknew that I love to build things
, I love to create, but I had aplan.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Could you sew as a child?
Were you one of those?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
yeah, it wasn't any good, but I did it anyway.
Did you make your prom dress?
Were you one of those?
Those, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, but I did.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
What color?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
was it Hot pink satin actually?
And I just made it because Icouldn't find what I wanted, to
be honest, and it didn't turnout very good, but at least it
was like sort of, in essence,what I had felt like I wanted to
identify with.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Was it poly polysatin , or was it a stretch or like?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
how was it?
I guess it was a polysatin, itwasn't stretch, which was part
of the issue with.
You know how it came out, but Igot Walmart and it was all that
they had.
I grew up in Colorado in areally small town called
Steamboat Springs, and so I waslimited to like what they had at
Walmart, to be honest, calledSteamboat.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Springs, and so I was limited to like what they had
at Walmart.
To be honest, Do you knowthat's?
And I'm so happy you broughtthat up, Because so many
designers with whom I've workedand spoken have this notion that
their customer, that shetypically, that they identify as
a woman for this conversation,assume that she is a very chic,
metropolitan, fabulous womanwearing all the best clothes,
(03:49):
going to the best places, hair,nails, makeup.
And when I've encouraged themto do this deep dive on the
analytics of who's actuallybuying their product, it's
someone from a town with a stopsign, a church, a bar, a school
and a Walmart, and youunderstand that they are
(04:09):
spending their hard-earned moneyon a product that is either
100% for function, and theycarve out one part of their
budget for that, or it'sdisposable income and it's there
to make them feel good.
So that you know, youunderstood that from the get-go.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know if I understood that
as much as I, just that's what Icome from and so that is like
in my soul a little bit DNA, manDNA, and then you came.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Was it a big deal to come to New York from Colorado?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I didn't even really know.
I was thinking this morninglike I don't think I knew what
New York was really like.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I knew of New York, but I was more like the cool
person that you wanted to hangout with.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, like I knew it was cool,but I didn't identify with
wanting to be in New York.
I just thought like I justdidn't even know enough.
I'm like from the country, likethe mountains, rather, and like
my put it this way, my momdoesn't know.
She might still not really knowwhat Louis Vuitton is Like.
It's like that, so that's okay,oh, it's great and it's
(05:20):
wonderful.
I mean, I was able to discoverit on my own without any sort of
like preconceived ideas of likefashion or handbags or this
world of retail is.
But well, I really wanted to bea designer.
Like my dream was to be adesigner and like the reason for
that was really that like Iwant stuff and I really like to
make it.
Like I like that process, likewant something, can't find it or
(05:42):
can't afford it, so I'll makeit.
And I wanted to go to Parsons.
I got a plug, sort of from myaunt.
She like drops a little orplanted a little seed with me
when I was probably in like highschool, early high school years
of like there are designschools and you were like what I
was like, yeah, what?
Like I'm sort of middleAmerican kind of kid playing
(06:04):
soccer.
Like sports, sports, sports,everything like not'm sort of
middle American kind of kidplaying soccer.
Like sports, sports, sports,everything like not a lot of
access to culture or anythinglike what we have here in New
York.
And so I thought, whoa, like,that's cool.
So I immediately like dug intoRISD, parsons, savannah College
of Art and Design and just kindof like got familiar with what
(06:24):
design schools were out thereand I like was just, I mean,
that was it for me.
As soon as the idea was planted, I was like done, that's where
I was going, and your parentstried to dissuade you from that,
or they were like you go, we'llsee you good luck.
My parents are super supportiveof anything that I want to do,
(06:46):
Like if I can figure out how todo it on my own, like most kind
of people but they didn't try todissuade me from being a
designer.
I think they saw me in a lot ofways and understood where I
might find happiness.
Also, I have a lot of likeartist type of people in my
family not that they all decidedto be entrepreneurs and, like
(07:10):
you said, that's a way tosupport their lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
But were you like a hustler person, like, did you
work through school?
Did you work in high school?
Did you have side businesses,side jobs, like whichever way
you could make money, you wouldkind of thing Always.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's the only reason I'm here.
I came here to go to Parsons.
I like, hustled on the side, Ihad as many internships as I
could.
I was like not really havingthat beautiful college
experience that a lot of peopledescribe, and I didn't care.
I was happy to be here, likedoing New York.
So what?
Or your?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
internships, because I deal with students all the
time and I mean I look at theirresumes, I help with cover
letters.
I mean I'm dealing with oneparticular student.
We've gone back and forth withher resume like 80 times and I'm
like, before you become thebest publicist of yourself, like
go back and check and if it's anecessity as in what your
(08:05):
situation is based on whatyou're saying, and you're saying
like college was the most youknow dream emily in paris, jesse
new york kind of situation,because you were always like I
am the prize.
I am the prize.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You had to work oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think
that's really beautiful, thatyou work with young designers in
that way.
I wish I would have had someonelike you.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I'm amazing.
I wish I would have had me.
You don't even know You'reamazing.
I am as well.
You know, truly Only onTuesdays, so don't catch me on a
Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I know I hear you.
I mean I think that's why it'sso great.
It's because, like, who hastime for that?
And once you start working andlike you're overwhelmed, you
know really, by the amount ofthings that end up needing to
get done for just like life andwork.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But yeah, I mean, were you taking accessory design
classes, like, was that yourfocus?
I?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
wasn't actually because I didn't know yet what I
wanted to do.
I wanted to do.
I wanted to be like I lovedclothing because, for starters,
like that's where I was at likein my interests.
And then, as time went on, Istarted to kind of really
understand that strategy wasimportant for me and also that
(09:22):
there are all these glamorousjobs that everybody wants.
That's like going to be realtough to get, even if you are
the best.
And then there's all these sortof like less glamorous jobs
that are still in the industry,that are great jobs, that are
just like not as glitzy and glam, we'll say.
And so I started designingaccessories.
(09:44):
Like the second half I mighthave even been like my senior
year at Parsons, because Ithought maybe I'll try it, like
maybe that could be interesting.
Coach was hosting and I thinkthey still do an accessories
design award for the studentsand I decided to enter in it
because Because you could,because I could, yeah, and I was
(10:07):
also like it was during finalsand I knew that I had Did you?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
recycle what you'd already made, or did you have to
make?
Oh wow, so you had to makesomething specific to it, based
on the coach DNA.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They gave us at that point avery specific prompt to create,
and I hadn't really designedhandbags before that, to be
honest.
Wow, I just designed otherthings.
It's very transferable theskills, but they're not the
exact same.
I mean, correct, had to learn alot, but that all for me,
happened more like on the job.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So, wow, so you applied and you won.
Yeah, yeah, were you like what?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, I was, I was like what, and things like that
around this time in my lifestarted to kind of happen, like
I just decided, like my dadbasically said like I'm not
paying for you after this, solike get a job or come over
whatever, like.
So I was like, shoot, okay, I'mgonna apply to everything I can.
I'm gonna do like apply to thebest internship that I don't
(11:09):
think I can get at armani.
And I ended up getting theinternship and I was like holy
cow, like this is awesome.
And then it ended up being sucha beautiful learning experience
for me, just because of the waythat that company was run at
that time and the management andpororio Armani or Armani
Exchange.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Armani Exchange, gotcha In.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
New York, yeah, and I think Emporio I don't think
that that's here, but it doesn'tmatter it was Armani Exchange
and the creative director thereat the time, who I'm still like,
actually pretty close with, wasjust incredible at managing his
team, at creating a veryproductive yet positive team
culture and people reallyrespected him.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
It's so important to be exposed to that because when
you're at such a tender age tobe exposed, to see how somebody
leads by example, it stays withyou.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It stays with you, and that is like one of the
things that is like superimportant to, I know, both my
partners and myself is just likebeing able to lead by example
and always ensuring that likewe're supporting team culture
and growth, and like the youthof our company and like raising
them into good leaders as wework through this whole thing.
(12:21):
That is like building a brand,which is like a lot in and of
itself.
But yeah, so I was there, I gotthat internship.
It changed everything for me interms of how I saw fashion,
because a lot of the otherinternships I had had were at
smaller, more luxury, luxury, Iwould say, fashion houses, and
it was just kind of a messbehind the scenes or behind the
curtains, as you'd say, and Iwas like, whoa, okay, like
(12:44):
that's not what I want to do.
And then I saw kind of yeah, Iguess in Armani and at coach,
like how a well run retailbusiness right can kind of go.
So then I like kind of set mysights on like that's what I
want to do.
And then I graduated.
And then you were like, oh damn, damn, but I got a job before I
graduated.
And then you were like oh damn,oh damn.
(13:05):
But I got a job before Igraduated because I was like
that girl, I needed to.
Yeah, I worked in footwear,actually because I was at the
time interested in accessoriesand footwear, was it, and that's
where there was a job available.
So I took it and it was just adisaster, to be totally honest,
fair, it just was not for me.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Footwear is really tricky and I want to call out
and I'm happy you said that andI don't want to say that it's
indicative of all footwearcompanies.
But I feel, in my personalopinion, obviously coming from
the handbag lens, when you areworking with something or a
product that has sizing, thereturn rate is so high and the
(13:49):
marketing angle and the salesangle is so challenging that,
unless you're doing shoes thathas a match back to another
sellable product, to tell astronger brand story it's very,
very difficult, because it'smore about those Monday morning
numbers of sales and sellthrough than, in my opinion and
this is again speaking from ahandbag person than the product.
(14:12):
Exactly, as a designer it'sespecially a young one it's very
stifling to be like I don'tthink this is for me, but having
those crappy experiences alsoyoung is great, because then you
see the factory margins, yousee how people are working,
you're able to like, figure itout, like, oh, I see, this is
what it's like to work in astressful situation where it's
(14:34):
all about making money, profit,that's it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Mm, hmm, yeah, and what it looks like in my case
for design to have no authorityor respect in that like world or
at a specific company.
And so I did learn a lot.
I learned a lot about what Ididn't want.
I learned a lot about makingmoney in retail and what that
means and what like compromisesone has to consider as a
(15:01):
designer.
Yeah, and also, just like, whatdoes design mean?
You know, like to me, is itretail?
Like, is it just enough for meto like make something that is a
paint by number sort of designsituation where the bottom's
already decided because ourprice point is like whatever
cents for that, whatever.
That is the uppers.
We only have three, these threematerials, because these are
(15:23):
the vendors that we already haverelationships with.
And that's the uppers.
We only have three, these threematerials, because these are
the vendors that we already haverelationships with and that's
the only way we can get thisshoe in the amount of time that
we need it in.
And blah, blah, you get it likejust super restrained and
that's all.
That's all margin driven nowyeah, and that's great for some
people, and I think a lot ofpeople I worked with there were
like super happy, and so thelearning for me at that point in
time was just like what I wantor what I didn't want, which was
(15:46):
that kind of I wanted to becreative, I wanted to really
speak to my like consumer and Iwanted to make things that
people wanted to wear and foundvalue in, that were maybe more
interesting than just threedifferent colors that had shown
to be saleable over the past 20years like of being in business.
(16:07):
So here's our three heroproducts.
Let's keep iterating it overyou can only do brown and black
Like you're only allowed to dobrown and black.
I was like like what?
No, I can't, I can't live likethat.
I need a world of color.
But yeah, it wasn't a good fit.
And then that's when the nextstage of my plan was that I was
going to go to business schoolbecause I knew that I needed to
(16:29):
understand the business to beable to like run a company.
So, randomly, I get an emailfrom my partner now partner
Melissa that was like hey, I'mat Wharton business school.
I really want to start a bagbrand.
I saw your stuff at Coach, likelet's go get coffee, and how
did she know you existed?
(16:49):
She saw my work from the awardthat I had won at Coach.
She saw my bags that I hadcreated.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
And were you like when you got this email?
Were you like who is this andwhat?
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
But like she was so enthusiastic and like like just
cool, and I was like you knowwhat, let's do it.
Like I'm a very open mindedperson.
I love meeting new people likeyou I think you said so.
I was like let's go grab acoffee and we just like hit it
off Honestly, like it was like adate, it was like a blind date.
(17:24):
And she it was like a date, itwas like a blind date.
And she basically was like okay, I worked at coach for a long
time.
I opened their uk store inheathrow terminal, which was
their first uk store, and allthat was happening was like
people coming in that hadspilled their water bottle on
their computer or like I don'teven know, their bag was just
like a mess.
(17:44):
The handle broke, like so she'slike they wanted work bags and
I literally had to send them toother brands because, like we
didn't have anything but theywere willing to like and ready
to buy a bag and I and I hadthis is like one day you had you
apply this is I'm so.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
There was no application.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It was a random email that popped up in my inbox and
me being like not, and how didshe?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
find your email.
I have no idea.
I don't know.
I have to ask her.
You need to ask her that,because then that's like part
two.
How did you?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
find probably tracked me down on like facebook or
something like that she.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
She literally was like.
I remember that girl.
She was young enough, greenenough.
I'm sure she gets it.
She'd probably be available andopen to ideas because she's
young and trained.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Let's give her a go?
Yeah, I think so.
I think I would guess that'show it went, and I know that she
was looking for someone who shecould build a brand with and
that would be as enthusiasticand committed as she was Was it
understood that you would be apartner, or did she present it
to you as like hey, can you bethe designer?
(18:53):
for In the beginning she said,basically I need help creating
this concept that I want toexplore and I it was like a
freelance gig and I was like,sure, let's do it.
And then, pretty quickly Ithink we both realized like
we're very good compliments toone another.
(19:14):
While this is all happening, myother partner this is Melissa
mash.
Melissa mash, yeah, she waslike she's our CEO, she had the
original idea.
And then my partner, DeepaGandhi, was at Wharton with
Melissa at this time and wasalso kind of working with
Melissa a little bit, justhelping her out, Like
peripherally, Mm-hmm.
(19:35):
And Deepa's background was infinance Finance, Obviously and
she also worked in buying.
So she was like in the industry, but much more on the financial
and analytical side of things,and we started all three working
together.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Had they graduated or they were still there.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
They were in school and they took the train from
Philly what, and I was stillworking, so like we were all
took the train from Philly andthen they're like here we'll
come in.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
On a weekend Was your first meeting with Melissa, and
then Deepa showed up and likehey, ps, this is Deepa, she's
part of this gig now.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So it's just yeah, something like that, but it was
more like Melissa was like Iwant to do this thing, will you
help me?
Once I went to Penn for a visitto show her some designs that I
had created, and Deepa wasthere, right, I was like hi, I'm
so happy to meet you and I'm soexcited about this.
She's just ready to go andsuper excited about everything.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I really, like her, want to ask you do you think
it's because you're from a smalltown or a smaller place that
your opinions of people are alot less jaded, like the small
town vibe is?
You say hello to everybody,you're open to things.
I wouldn't want to assume thatyou're positive by design, but
to be like yeah, sure, I'll talkto you.
Yeah, sure, if I can see money.
Yes, sir, I see a project.
Like, do you think that had animpact?
Because a lot of people off therecord would probably be to
(21:10):
quote my son a little sauceabout who's this person and
now'm like I don't know, like Ithink I just like oh, I met one
of my great friends just on thecorner of the street over here,
so I was walking my dog and shejust walked out.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
She looked like she was just like so happy and
wanted to chat.
But I don't necessarily thinkit's.
I think it's my personality.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
What number child are you?
I'm?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
the third of five.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Oh wow, you're from a posse.
Oh yeah, yeah, so OK.
So there it is.
You are a get along gang kindof gal.
That's why, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
OK, yeah, you got along.
Gang kind of gal, I like that.
I mean she told me that you,yes, yes, so there you go.
Okay, I'm a get along, get inkind of gal, I like that.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You should have told me that.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
And it's funny on my Q&A with my students every
semester I have them say whatnumber child they are, because I
have learned that birth orderdictates so much.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Emily, that's such a great question.
Wait, what else do you ask them?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Because I'm just curious.
Well, you're going to be aguest speaker next semester.
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(23:42):
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(24:04):
But I really think, though, whoyou are within birth order, I
have one student this semesterwho is tasked to turn to the
point where I need to yank hervoice out.
Oh yeah, she is one of severalchildren and I can get her to
speak, but when it comes topresenting she's like a cricket
(24:26):
and, you know, reads her notes.
And I said you know, within thefamily, are you the child that
the parents don't need to worryabout, because they always know,
no matter what you'll do, whatyou're supposed to, that you get
everything done, and they knowthey can always rely on you and
always depend on you.
So you're not the wave maker.
That's the kid above you orbelow you.
(24:47):
Yeah, and I said well, you'repaying for this.
You're here.
This is the time for you tofind your voice, share your
voice and be heard.
So, if there's ever a window,this is it.
This is it girl Step up.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, I think like that is great advice, because no
one's just going to like pauseto listen to what you have to
say, unfortunately in the world.
But also she has a perspectiveand a point of view.
She just has to get used tomaybe like sharing it.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Sharing it Something that I can like totally relate
to, because so I think these itsounds like Deepa and Melissa,
and I don't want to say this onfor them, but it sounds like
they were the first Jessechampions to say what do you
have to say?
We're here to hear it andthat's why you were like you're
my people.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yes, I have goosebumps, but yes, that's it.
Like they see something in meand saw something in me at that
point, before I saw it.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So you weren't even hesitant about joining, like
starting a company with them.
You were like, yeah, I'm in it,I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Well, I thought at that time like I have nothing to
lose, like I haven't reallymade a lot of headway in the
career, like I didn't have acareer yet.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
So I felt like I saw it as an opportunity, really,
like the interesting thing is,though, you weren't even the
customer, you weren't thedemographic of the product that
you were designing.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
No, how was it?
Well, I was in that I was goingto work every day and I needed
a bag that was organized, and Iresonated with it because I
needed somewhere to put mythings Like we had real
portfolios at that point.
Oh my God, the big things, yay,the big things.
I was like always carrying thatPlus like swatch book, like
(26:32):
just all my files, all myswatches, just like you know, a
water bottle, the normal things,your keys, your wallet, and I
was like a disheveled messbecause You're so clean looking,
now You've like dewy skin.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
How you're so clean looking, now you've like dewy
skin.
How could that be?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I don't see that as part of your dna.
Well, I spend my life trying tokeep it all in order, I guess.
But yeah, like I was actuallymaking my own bags.
They were like not very cute,but like they worked, because
there was nobody making bags bigenough for like a portfolio,
like.
So I resonated with the conceptand I was like yes, totally
Like, no one's making bags forus, like let's figure out how to
(27:11):
do this, and that was more.
I guess our first collection wasfor working urban women in
particular.
And then a big learning for mewas like how do I apply this to
my life?
And like how do I really likeshare my life?
And like how do I really likeshare my perspective here while
also still kind of creatingvalue through the products that
(27:31):
I'm making?
And that's when I decided todrop a neoprene collection,
which was really more of like anathleisure focus, like that was
your idea.
That was really my baby,because it was like that's me.
I'm very casual, but I stillwant to look very polished and
clean and like nice.
But I want to be organized alsoand be able to like go from the
(27:52):
gym to the office to walking mydog or the coffee shop or
whatever it be like looking good, but I don't need to be like
looking super polished andprofessional all the time.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Are you guys a company at this point?
Were you guys like, that's it,we're incorporated, I'm keeping
my day job, you guys will finishschool, we'll keep doing this
while like and PS to that, like,you're the only one who has the
official name in the name, yeah, as part of this throuple.
So I'd like to you know,because I'm not losing that name
(28:24):
, because I've just, you know,recently.
I love that name because I'vejust, you know, recently.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I love that name for us.
We are a couple.
I mean it's accurate.
We call each other, we're likemarried.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
We're definitely married in yeah, so it makes
sense, but yeah so how were youstill day jobbing and you're
like, okay, yeah, here's thefirst bag, but I really think
neoprene, like let's do thewetsuit material.
And how did all this come topass?
Like were you waking up dayjobbing and then meeting them at
nights and weekends?
And then, yeah, that's how itworked, that's how it worked.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Deep I was like, okay , we need to incorporate, we
need to open up a bank accountmy partners are super organized,
super on top of it, like mypartner at the time when we
started it.
He called them the sharksbecause they were just like on
top of everything all the time,like ahead a million steps.
So I personally was just likealong for that ride of like
incorporating the business andgetting everything going,
(29:14):
raising money.
All of that kind of stuff isreally like their wheelhouse.
And so, okay, step one wecreated the first like product
assortment, which was only twoproducts.
It was a tote and a clutchwallet that you could use as a
combination for your workday tolike take all your stuff to work
and then you could pull out theclutch wallet and like go to
(29:35):
lunch or go to dinner orwhatever.
So you didn't have to carry thewhole tote.
Those two products weretogether as a system we launched
with like this very like work,focused woman run business
aesthetic and like ethos andthat?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
where were they made?
Where were the bags being madelike?
Was that you for sourcing infactories?
Was that on you?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
yes, we worked with a factory in new york city which
I still like deeply adore andhave so much like gratitude for,
because I was so annoying andwe were like just trying so hard
to like figure it out when youknow you can't really produce
anything in new york that's likesuper high quality or like
(30:18):
affordable, just not affordableat all, like it just doesn't
work.
And there are sample rooms here.
So essentially that's what itwas.
It was a sample room who Iconvinced to do our first run of
production and we're convinced,rather, they just agreed to do
it because they were like thisgirl's not going to stop showing
up on our doorstep.
Let's just like do this and getit over with is what I imagine
(30:39):
they were thinking.
But yeah, so like we put ourwebsite up, which we also
designed I think I also designedthat, I don't even remember at
this point and we hosted apre-sale, so we sold based on
our samples, and then we went tothe factory, placed the order,
waited for the samples to befinished or, sorry, the
(31:03):
production line to be finished,and then we shipped to customers
based on that.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
How did you find that ?
How did you find that?
I'm so talking over you andpeople complain, but I get
excited, so I apologize to everylistener.
Well, I'm like listening tothis.
I'm like but, but, but, but,but.
Where did you get the customers?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
We were hustling and sharing with all of our friends
and family.
Everybody knew we were hustlingand sharing with all of our
friends and family.
Like everybody knew we wereworking on it and we had
Instagram and the internet atour disposal, which were like
for brand marketing.
I think we were probably one ofthe first brands that really
like, harnessed it and utilizedit Right In a successful way,
(31:44):
and so we posted on Instagram,facebook, like, had events, we
were hosting events, we had alot of focus groups and
surveying that we had done.
That's NBA designed.
Yep, yeah, that's like where wehad a lot of our I guess
supporters and customers comefrom.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, we just like we're spreading the word like
but can I ask you?
There were other bags and Iremember overhearing this
conversation while you werehaving that meeting where I
peripherally met you guys.
Yeah, there were other brandsat that point who had
organization and pockets.
So what made the three of youdecide that you had a fighting
(32:29):
chance to stand apart from theothers, comparatively to other
products on the market that weretheoretically trying to do the
same thing?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, I didn't mean, I just cut
you off.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
No, no no, no, no.
I mean the takeaway is becauseI started my handbag line while
I was getting my MBA and it wasa beautiful spot to do research
and have students do my heavylifting and that's where you
learn about the SWOT, thecomparative analysis, the
competitive analysis, the deepdive on the customer, and you
know the psychographics and youknow what does she, he, they eat
(33:04):
and what do they drive andwatch it.
All that nonsense.
Most designers don't do that.
That's what an MBA does.
So how are you guys approachingthis, saying, okay, there might
be other bags that havecompartments and organization,
but this is why ours are better,especially you as a designer.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I guess our mission to begin with was to provide
like organized bags toprofessional women at a price
point that was attainable andthat were high quality products
so you could like wipe them,they were durable enough to like
throw around and you didn'thave to treat them like a
(33:42):
designer handbag that's made ofleather and that's like really
soft and like delicate.
At that time, there wereprobably two brands that I could
think of that were hangingtheir coat on organization and
functionality, both of whichwere not cool, and we were, like
you know, millennial women atthat point in our early 20s.
(34:05):
Like we do know, we're notgoing to be caught.
That's not for us.
Yes, when we got to like thedecision of what we were going
to wear, I was like I'll eitherwear something like cute that
doesn't work for me at all, orfor me it was like I'll make my
own.
But for them they were likelike what are we gonna do?
And they just wore these likehandbags and shoved their
computers inside of like kind ofhalf hanging out.
(34:26):
So I think that through all ofthe I mean honestly, emily I
just thought it was like I wouldbuy it like that.
It's not even that.
That's all you need.
I was just like I'm gonna makesomething that I would buy and
then I think my friends wouldwear.
I would like to say that it waslike you know.
Obviously there was a ton ofresearch and like a lot of
(34:46):
thought and analysis put intowhy we created the brand the way
that we did and why we createdthe products that we did.
But from a creative standpoint,I always feel like that's it.
It's not that complicated Likeit can be if you want to make it
that complicated, but it's notRight, right, right right.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
No, I think, listen, we've spoken more about little
Jesse than adult Jesse at thispoint and, like you know, I
could hold you captive foranother three hours.
I know it's all about you.
This is like a nice therapysession.
I call this handbag therapybecause, as somebody said, like
(35:26):
I always tell people, as I toldyou, you're going to end up
telling me something that youhaven't shared, because
everybody else's interviews are,you know, editorial.
Right now is so click driventhat it's all about what are
those?
What are those?
Within a chasm, you know whatis?
The pain points, the challenges, the agony, the solution, the
monetization, like it was theNBA buzzwords, blah, blah, blah.
(35:50):
But I think understanding theorigin story of a designer can
speak volumes about the successas to the brand that they
created and the fact that youknow you're a very positive
person.
You're a very positive person,you're a very kind person,
you're a very complimentaryperson, and it's so not easy to
(36:11):
work with people.
It's not hard, it's not easy tobe married, it's not easy to to
work.
I mean, it's all these thingsbecause everything's a
partnership and it's aboutcompromise.
Yeah, it's really aboutrecognizing, especially with
people with whom you work.
You know everybody gets theirrespective role, but at some
points you have to come togetherand I heard an interview where
(36:32):
partners have said if this isthe nine of importance to me and
a two of importance for you,then we have to be able to come
together and recognize at thatmoment it goes to me for what's
important, yes, as opposed to Iknow at other times it's going
to be a two for me and a 10 foryou and I'm going to say then we
need to listen to what'simportant to you, because I
(36:53):
respect what means to you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, totally.
I mean, it's hard, it's reallyhard.
I think that there are a fewthings that have helped support
me through this, have helpedsupport me through this, but I
think the main thing that hasmade us like successful in our
(37:15):
thruple we'll say is that thatwe that's never gonna get old,
that we all, like, beyond thebrand, we really care about each
other and and the people thatwork for you, like, yeah, the
people that work for us, we'renot like saving lives and so
nothing's really you know, thatbig of a deal at the end of the
(37:36):
day.
So, like being able to like cryto each other and you know,
like vent, like this is a 10 forme and this is why like, and I
just need you to hear me on thisand then being like, ok, well,
let's do it Like.
That is, I guess, like theholding space for each other and
(37:57):
the culturally of Dagny Dover,I've never heard anything
negative.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Wow, yeah, I mean my ears to the ground because I
hear about all this stuff andyou know, it's really
unfortunate that the perceptionof female run companies, yeah,
rah, rah, females, women inbusiness, girl boss, which we
all know, rip has had its day,but yeah, there have been enough
(38:24):
horror stories of female run,specifically handbag brands and
how they've been run.
Because it does Growth ischallenging.
To scale a brand, to go fromone bag to getting a showroom,
to getting an office, to gettingemployees, to getting health
care, to then firing people andthen realizing all of that it's
(38:45):
like that's big kids stuff andit's stuff you know and to
recognize the trajectory of yourbrand, to say, are we a
boutique brand, are we a retailbrand, are we indeed a C brand?
How can we segment how we wantour retail strategy to go?
Because, especially after thepandemic, as I'm sure,
everything had to get flipped onits head because who needed a
(39:06):
work bag?
Nobody needed a bag to beginwith, but who needed a work bag,
you know, I mean that's thetime when anything handbag
related was taking a dip.
So how can you pivot and turnit into travel, turn it into
adventure, turn it intolifestyle, and you know all of
that's really challenging.
So to be able to still worktogether and respect the people
(39:27):
who are working with you and foryou, it's not easy.
It really isn't.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
It's not no, but I think I don't know.
I don't know what it's.
I've never worked at anothercompany, really to be totally
honest with you, so I think it'sreally hard and I don't even
know why.
I guess something that'simportant to me, because I would
categorize myself as ahypersensitive person, and I'm
(39:55):
not.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
You're in the climate where you can be so.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
lucky you, lucky me but it's hard, it's really hard
and I've gone through somemental health struggles and I
think that I just can't operatein a situation that's not
healthy.
Like some people, I even havefriends like this who are like
working at hedge funds andthey're like they're in there,
they're like fighting withpeople all day, yeah, getting
(40:20):
just like they're just part ofthese, like super toxic cultures
that they can come home fromand then just like, let it all
go.
I can't do that.
I just physically can't.
I get sick, I cry all day, likeit's just a sad kind of thing,
like I can't, just like don'thave that, whatever that is.
So it was sort of like not anoption for me to try and create
(40:41):
an environment that like I couldthrive in and I think, by
default, like we ended upcreating something that, yeah, a
really healthy workplace.
Honestly, that is focused a loton like the products that we
create, but also, and then thebrand that we're kind of like I
don't I guess projecting, butthen also like our own, you know
(41:05):
, mental health and like youknow, protection, like it's a
very protected environment.
Right, my opinion, like thedesign room is separate from the
marketing room, is separatefrom, you know, like other rooms
, and that is like not to createseparation but to like hold
(41:26):
like these really delicate.
I guess you could say like howdo I say this?
I like to hold this energeticcreative base.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
It's a balance of power.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
And it's also a balance of power.
Exactly yes.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Do you allow your marketing team to impact design?
Because you know we had anincredible woman on one of the
earlier episodes, jamie Levy,who worked at Steve Madden for
years, and you know the pushbackof having the marketing and
salespeople with the designpeople and you know it's like at
the end of the day, the producthas to be designed to sell.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It does, and I think physical space to design is that
is, protected is very importantfor the design process to
happen.
Right Leadership is reallyimportant, like obviously really
important, but in likedeciphering the information
that's important to come fromthe sales team to the marketing
(42:26):
team.
The marketing team Like, forexample, I would not have, like,
the head of my sales team comein and tell my design team
exactly what they want, becauseit's not going to land like the
way that it needs to.
But if I get that informationand I know what I need to know
from my marketing and sales andbusiness teams, I can give them
(42:48):
that information in a way thatcan be received and implemented
into future designs.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
So I think it's like that's excellent, I must say and
I don't want to say it becauseit's female run and it's
sensitive, you know but itdefinitely doesn't hurt to
recognize that informationthat's the thing, too, is like
it doesn't hurt to be overlysensitive or overly
(43:14):
communicative or overly careful.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You might as well do that.
You might as well do it, yeah,in any situation.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Can I ask you one final question just now?
You know companies.
They've hired me to analyze notso much the health of the
company for acquisition, butjust to evaluate the brand, the
line, like investment firms, tosee if it's worthy of covering
blah, blah, blah.
And one of the key points iscolor, color within the
(43:44):
assortment and typically, toyour point, you have your black,
your brown, your oxblood, yourreddish, yeah, reddish, whatever
that color.
I don't understand personallyhow that color can sell, but
that's some reason.
It's like a neutral.
I don't get it.
I don't get it, but it's withinthe palette.
And then you'll have a pop ofcolor to satisfy whatever the
(44:09):
hot trend.
So everything's hot pink rightnow.
Barbie, blah, blah.
It's not going to stay likethat.
Pink will always be there forgender understood.
People can fight it.
It is what it is.
It is what it is.
Yeah, it is what it is.
That said, for work bags, yourpalette is surprisingly pastel-y
.
Turn that into an adverb.
(44:31):
How did you especially thismuscle thing coming from you how
did you and then we can wrap updetermine that color should be
part of the palette?
Because I see black and ifanybody watches this on YouTube,
they can see your screen behindyou.
But how did you make thatdetermination Because that's
(44:53):
definitely a unique sellingpoint, a brand separator that
you have black and then you havethese I don't want to say
unsafe colors, but they are notoffensive, they are like they're
gentle versions of neutrals.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I guess a part ofwhat's important to me as a
designer and as a consumer islike color is powerful, Like
it's really powerful.
It's very emotional, and theway that people dress and like,
present themselves and createtheir wardrobe is a creative
process based on what they wanttheir own personal brand to be,
(45:36):
and so it's important to me tobe able to offer people, as much
as I can, options to be able todo that for themselves.
I want to do it for myself, too.
Plus, like how good, just like.
How good does it feel if youhave like a cool green outfit
that you're going to wear tolike your yoga class and then
you can buy a bag that's eithercomplimentary to that or like
exact same match?
That feels just like very puttogether, very peaceful, very
(45:58):
organized, very like I don'thave to worry about what I'm
looking like right now, and Ifeel really, really good that
this is an expression of me andnot just like some brand, and
that's why I think that it'simportant to incorporate color
and it just I don't know.
I guess it's like somethingthat my partners also appreciate
(46:19):
, and I also just like see howexcited my team gets when we
incorporate color and print andthings that are like fun and not
just like the usual, and thatme, you know, wherever there is
excitement says that there'slike an appetite for something.
So yeah, like you know, it'sall give and take, though of
course it's like I do get shutdown a lot.
(46:39):
I want to do certain things andthere are colors that don't
sell because they generally justlike don't sit well with people
purple, and that's okay, thathappens.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
It's like a risk that we take, but um, yeah, dude,
jesse, this has been absolutelyphenomenal for the handbag happy
hour.
Slash therapy, slash everything.
Yeah, how can people learn moreabout you, about Dagny Dover?
Where can I get all the goodstuff?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yeah, so we are on Instagram, Facebook, all the
social media platforms as DagnyDover D-A-G-N-E-D-O-V-E-R, and
our website is DagnyDovercom.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Wonderful.
I can't thank you enough.
I'm probably going to want tohave you back for a part two or
like a continuation, becausethis was a surface scratch man.
This was a drive by yes, sothank you so very much.
I encourage everybody to followJessie, follow the brand.
It is a wonderful, specialbrand and I'm just so grateful
(47:46):
to have had you on today.
So thank you so very much.
Thank you, emily.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
Physical space to design that is protected is very
important for the designprocess to happen.
Right Leadership is reallyimportant, like obviously really
important, but in likedeciphering the information
that's important to come fromthe sales team to the marketing
team Like, for example, I wouldnot have, like, the head of my
(00:23):
sales team come in and tell mydesign team exactly what they
want because it's not going toland like the way that it needs
to.
But if I get that informationand I know what I need to know
from my marketing and sales andbusiness teams, I can give them
that information in a way thatcan be received and implemented
(00:45):
into future designs.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, emilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(01:09):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Welcome, Jessie Dover , the one and only the one of
the thruple of Dagny Dover.
Thank you so very much forjoining Handbag Designer 101,
the podcast.
It is an honor and pleasure and, shockingly enough, this is our
first official time talking.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, it's very nice to meet you officially in person
.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I know Well quasi person over Zoom.
But yeah, I know I am numberone, very excited to chat with
you.
We were pre-chatting, like wewere pre-gaming, and I had to
put a stop to it because it wasjust getting so interesting that
we go through an hour withouteven recording.
But I want to.
As we spoke about, you are oneof three and typically you are
(02:05):
the one who seems to be thechatty one amongst the
interviews and so forth, but Iam very much aware that you went
straight from designing to.
I have an idea with two otherpeople, let's do this.
So that's ballsy man how andthe why.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I always wanted to start my own brand.
That was just sort of like Iknew that I love to build things
, I love to create, but I had aplan.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Could you sew as a child?
Were you one of those?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
yeah, it wasn't any good, but I did it anyway.
Did you make your prom dress?
Were you one of those?
Those, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, but I did.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
What color?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
was it Hot pink satin actually?
And I just made it because Icouldn't find what I wanted, to
be honest, and it didn't turnout very good, but at least it
was like sort of, in essence,what I had felt like I wanted to
identify with.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Was it poly polysatin , or was it a stretch or like?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
how was it?
I guess it was a polysatin, itwasn't stretch, which was part
of the issue with.
You know how it came out, but Igot Walmart and it was all that
they had.
I grew up in Colorado in areally small town called
Steamboat Springs, and so I waslimited to like what they had at
Walmart, to be honest, calledSteamboat.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Springs, and so I was limited to like what they had
at Walmart.
To be honest, Do you knowthat's?
And I'm so happy you broughtthat up, Because so many
designers with whom I've workedand spoken have this notion that
their customer, that shetypically, that they identify as
a woman for this conversation,assume that she is a very chic,
metropolitan, fabulous womanwearing all the best clothes,
(03:49):
going to the best places, hair,nails, makeup.
And when I've encouraged themto do this deep dive on the
analytics of who's actuallybuying their product, it's
someone from a town with a stopsign, a church, a bar, a school
and a Walmart, and youunderstand that they are
(04:09):
spending their hard-earned moneyon a product that is either
100% for function, and theycarve out one part of their
budget for that, or it'sdisposable income and it's there
to make them feel good.
So that you know, youunderstood that from the get-go.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know if I understood that
as much as I, just that's what Icome from and so that is like
in my soul a little bit DNA, manDNA, and then you came.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Was it a big deal to come to New York from Colorado?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I didn't even really know.
I was thinking this morninglike I don't think I knew what
New York was really like.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I knew of New York, but I was more like the cool
person that you wanted to hangout with.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, like I knew it was cool,but I didn't identify with
wanting to be in New York.
I just thought like I justdidn't even know enough.
I'm like from the country, likethe mountains, rather, and like
my put it this way, my momdoesn't know.
She might still not really knowwhat Louis Vuitton is Like.
It's like that, so that's okay,oh, it's great and it's
(05:20):
wonderful.
I mean, I was able to discoverit on my own without any sort of
like preconceived ideas of likefashion or handbags or this
world of retail is.
But well, I really wanted to bea designer.
Like my dream was to be adesigner and like the reason for
that was really that like Iwant stuff and I really like to
make it.
Like I like that process, likewant something, can't find it or
(05:42):
can't afford it, so I'll makeit.
And I wanted to go to Parsons.
I got a plug, sort of from myaunt.
She like drops a little orplanted a little seed with me
when I was probably in like highschool, early high school years
of like there are designschools and you were like what I
was like, yeah, what?
Like I'm sort of middleAmerican kind of kid playing
(06:04):
soccer.
Like sports, sports, sports,everything like not'm sort of
middle American kind of kidplaying soccer.
Like sports, sports, sports,everything like not a lot of
access to culture or anythinglike what we have here in New
York.
And so I thought, whoa, like,that's cool.
So I immediately like dug intoRISD, parsons, savannah College
of Art and Design and just kindof like got familiar with what
(06:24):
design schools were out thereand I like was just, I mean,
that was it for me.
As soon as the idea was planted, I was like done, that's where
I was going, and your parentstried to dissuade you from that,
or they were like you go, we'llsee you good luck.
My parents are super supportiveof anything that I want to do,
(06:46):
Like if I can figure out how todo it on my own, like most kind
of people but they didn't try todissuade me from being a
designer.
I think they saw me in a lot ofways and understood where I
might find happiness.
Also, I have a lot of likeartist type of people in my
family not that they all decidedto be entrepreneurs and, like
(07:10):
you said, that's a way tosupport their lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
But were you like a hustler person, like, did you
work through school?
Did you work in high school?
Did you have side businesses,side jobs, like whichever way
you could make money, you wouldkind of thing Always.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's the only reason I'm here.
I came here to go to Parsons.
I like, hustled on the side, Ihad as many internships as I
could.
I was like not really havingthat beautiful college
experience that a lot of peopledescribe, and I didn't care.
I was happy to be here, likedoing New York.
So what?
Or your?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
internships, because I deal with students all the
time and I mean I look at theirresumes, I help with cover
letters.
I mean I'm dealing with oneparticular student.
We've gone back and forth withher resume like 80 times and I'm
like, before you become thebest publicist of yourself, like
go back and check and if it's anecessity as in what your
(08:05):
situation is based on whatyou're saying, and you're saying
like college was the most youknow dream emily in paris, jesse
new york kind of situation,because you were always like I
am the prize.
I am the prize.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You had to work oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think
that's really beautiful, thatyou work with young designers in
that way.
I wish I would have had someonelike you.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I'm amazing.
I wish I would have had me.
You don't even know You'reamazing.
I am as well.
You know, truly Only onTuesdays, so don't catch me on a
Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I know I hear you.
I mean I think that's why it'sso great.
It's because, like, who hastime for that?
And once you start working andlike you're overwhelmed, you
know really, by the amount ofthings that end up needing to
get done for just like life andwork.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But yeah, I mean, were you taking accessory design
classes, like, was that yourfocus?
I?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
wasn't actually because I didn't know yet what I
wanted to do.
I wanted to do.
I wanted to be like I lovedclothing because, for starters,
like that's where I was at likein my interests.
And then, as time went on, Istarted to kind of really
understand that strategy wasimportant for me and also that
(09:22):
there are all these glamorousjobs that everybody wants.
That's like going to be realtough to get, even if you are
the best.
And then there's all these sortof like less glamorous jobs
that are still in the industry,that are great jobs, that are
just like not as glitzy and glam, we'll say.
And so I started designingaccessories.
(09:44):
Like the second half I mighthave even been like my senior
year at Parsons, because Ithought maybe I'll try it, like
maybe that could be interesting.
Coach was hosting and I thinkthey still do an accessories
design award for the studentsand I decided to enter in it
because Because you could,because I could, yeah, and I was
(10:07):
also like it was during finalsand I knew that I had Did you?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
recycle what you'd already made, or did you have to
make?
Oh wow, so you had to makesomething specific to it, based
on the coach DNA.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They gave us at that point avery specific prompt to create,
and I hadn't really designedhandbags before that, to be
honest.
Wow, I just designed otherthings.
It's very transferable theskills, but they're not the
exact same.
I mean, correct, had to learn alot, but that all for me,
happened more like on the job.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So, wow, so you applied and you won.
Yeah, yeah, were you like what?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, I was, I was like what, and things like that
around this time in my lifestarted to kind of happen, like
I just decided, like my dadbasically said like I'm not
paying for you after this, solike get a job or come over
whatever, like.
So I was like, shoot, okay, I'mgonna apply to everything I can.
I'm gonna do like apply to thebest internship that I don't
(11:09):
think I can get at armani.
And I ended up getting theinternship and I was like holy
cow, like this is awesome.
And then it ended up being sucha beautiful learning experience
for me, just because of the waythat that company was run at
that time and the management andpororio Armani or Armani
Exchange.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Armani Exchange, gotcha In.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
New York, yeah, and I think Emporio I don't think
that that's here, but it doesn'tmatter it was Armani Exchange
and the creative director thereat the time, who I'm still like,
actually pretty close with, wasjust incredible at managing his
team, at creating a veryproductive yet positive team
culture and people reallyrespected him.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
It's so important to be exposed to that because when
you're at such a tender age tobe exposed, to see how somebody
leads by example, it stays withyou.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It stays with you, and that is like one of the
things that is like superimportant to, I know, both my
partners and myself is just likebeing able to lead by example
and always ensuring that likewe're supporting team culture
and growth, and like the youthof our company and like raising
them into good leaders as wework through this whole thing.
(12:21):
That is like building a brand,which is like a lot in and of
itself.
But yeah, so I was there, I gotthat internship.
It changed everything for me interms of how I saw fashion,
because a lot of the otherinternships I had had were at
smaller, more luxury, luxury, Iwould say, fashion houses, and
it was just kind of a messbehind the scenes or behind the
curtains, as you'd say, and Iwas like, whoa, okay, like
(12:44):
that's not what I want to do.
And then I saw kind of yeah, Iguess in Armani and at coach,
like how a well run retailbusiness right can kind of go.
So then I like kind of set mysights on like that's what I
want to do.
And then I graduated.
And then you were like, oh damn, damn, but I got a job before I
graduated.
And then you were like oh damn,oh damn.
(13:05):
But I got a job before Igraduated because I was like
that girl, I needed to.
Yeah, I worked in footwear,actually because I was at the
time interested in accessoriesand footwear, was it, and that's
where there was a job available.
So I took it and it was just adisaster, to be totally honest,
fair, it just was not for me.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Footwear is really tricky and I want to call out
and I'm happy you said that andI don't want to say that it's
indicative of all footwearcompanies.
But I feel, in my personalopinion, obviously coming from
the handbag lens, when you areworking with something or a
product that has sizing, thereturn rate is so high and the
(13:49):
marketing angle and the salesangle is so challenging that,
unless you're doing shoes thathas a match back to another
sellable product, to tell astronger brand story it's very,
very difficult, because it'smore about those Monday morning
numbers of sales and sellthrough than, in my opinion and
this is again speaking from ahandbag person than the product.
(14:12):
Exactly, as a designer it'sespecially a young one it's very
stifling to be like I don'tthink this is for me, but having
those crappy experiences alsoyoung is great, because then you
see the factory margins, yousee how people are working,
you're able to like, figure itout, like, oh, I see, this is
what it's like to work in astressful situation where it's
(14:34):
all about making money, profit,that's it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Mm, hmm, yeah, and what it looks like in my case
for design to have no authorityor respect in that like world or
at a specific company.
And so I did learn a lot.
I learned a lot about what Ididn't want.
I learned a lot about makingmoney in retail and what that
means and what like compromisesone has to consider as a
(15:01):
designer.
Yeah, and also, just like, whatdoes design mean?
You know, like to me, is itretail?
Like, is it just enough for meto like make something that is a
paint by number sort of designsituation where the bottom's
already decided because ourprice point is like whatever
cents for that, whatever.
That is the uppers.
We only have three, these threematerials, because these are
(15:23):
the vendors that we already haverelationships with.
And that's the uppers.
We only have three, these threematerials, because these are
the vendors that we already haverelationships with and that's
the only way we can get thisshoe in the amount of time that
we need it in.
And blah, blah, you get it likejust super restrained and
that's all.
That's all margin driven nowyeah, and that's great for some
people, and I think a lot ofpeople I worked with there were
like super happy, and so thelearning for me at that point in
time was just like what I wantor what I didn't want, which was
(15:46):
that kind of I wanted to becreative, I wanted to really
speak to my like consumer and Iwanted to make things that
people wanted to wear and foundvalue in, that were maybe more
interesting than just threedifferent colors that had shown
to be saleable over the past 20years like of being in business.
(16:07):
So here's our three heroproducts.
Let's keep iterating it overyou can only do brown and black
Like you're only allowed to dobrown and black.
I was like like what?
No, I can't, I can't live likethat.
I need a world of color.
But yeah, it wasn't a good fit.
And then that's when the nextstage of my plan was that I was
going to go to business schoolbecause I knew that I needed to
(16:29):
understand the business to beable to like run a company.
So, randomly, I get an emailfrom my partner now partner
Melissa that was like hey, I'mat Wharton business school.
I really want to start a bagbrand.
I saw your stuff at Coach, likelet's go get coffee, and how
did she know you existed?
(16:49):
She saw my work from the awardthat I had won at Coach.
She saw my bags that I hadcreated.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
And were you like when you got this email?
Were you like who is this andwhat?
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
But like she was so enthusiastic and like like just
cool, and I was like you knowwhat, let's do it.
Like I'm a very open mindedperson.
I love meeting new people likeyou I think you said so.
I was like let's go grab acoffee and we just like hit it
off Honestly, like it was like adate, it was like a blind date.
(17:24):
And she it was like a date, itwas like a blind date.
And she basically was like okay, I worked at coach for a long
time.
I opened their uk store inheathrow terminal, which was
their first uk store, and allthat was happening was like
people coming in that hadspilled their water bottle on
their computer or like I don'teven know, their bag was just
like a mess.
(17:44):
The handle broke, like so she'slike they wanted work bags and
I literally had to send them toother brands because, like we
didn't have anything but theywere willing to like and ready
to buy a bag and I and I hadthis is like one day you had you
apply this is I'm so.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
There was no application.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It was a random email that popped up in my inbox and
me being like not, and how didshe?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
find your email.
I have no idea.
I don't know.
I have to ask her.
You need to ask her that,because then that's like part
two.
How did you?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
find probably tracked me down on like facebook or
something like that she.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
She literally was like.
I remember that girl.
She was young enough, greenenough.
I'm sure she gets it.
She'd probably be available andopen to ideas because she's
young and trained.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Let's give her a go?
Yeah, I think so.
I think I would guess that'show it went, and I know that she
was looking for someone who shecould build a brand with and
that would be as enthusiasticand committed as she was Was it
understood that you would be apartner, or did she present it
to you as like hey, can you bethe designer?
(18:53):
for In the beginning she said,basically I need help creating
this concept that I want toexplore and I it was like a
freelance gig and I was like,sure, let's do it.
And then, pretty quickly Ithink we both realized like
we're very good compliments toone another.
(19:14):
While this is all happening, myother partner this is Melissa
mash.
Melissa mash, yeah, she waslike she's our CEO, she had the
original idea.
And then my partner, DeepaGandhi, was at Wharton with
Melissa at this time and wasalso kind of working with
Melissa a little bit, justhelping her out, Like
peripherally, Mm-hmm.
(19:35):
And Deepa's background was infinance Finance, Obviously and
she also worked in buying.
So she was like in the industry, but much more on the financial
and analytical side of things,and we started all three working
together.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Had they graduated or they were still there.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
They were in school and they took the train from
Philly what, and I was stillworking, so like we were all
took the train from Philly andthen they're like here we'll
come in.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
On a weekend Was your first meeting with Melissa, and
then Deepa showed up and likehey, ps, this is Deepa, she's
part of this gig now.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So it's just yeah, something like that, but it was
more like Melissa was like Iwant to do this thing, will you
help me?
Once I went to Penn for a visitto show her some designs that I
had created, and Deepa wasthere, right, I was like hi, I'm
so happy to meet you and I'm soexcited about this.
She's just ready to go andsuper excited about everything.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I really, like her, want to ask you do you think
it's because you're from a smalltown or a smaller place that
your opinions of people are alot less jaded, like the small
town vibe is?
You say hello to everybody,you're open to things.
I wouldn't want to assume thatyou're positive by design, but
to be like yeah, sure, I'll talkto you.
Yeah, sure, if I can see money.
Yes, sir, I see a project.
Like, do you think that had animpact?
Because a lot of people off therecord would probably be to
(21:10):
quote my son a little sauceabout who's this person and
now'm like I don't know, like Ithink I just like oh, I met one
of my great friends just on thecorner of the street over here,
so I was walking my dog and shejust walked out.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
She looked like she was just like so happy and
wanted to chat.
But I don't necessarily thinkit's.
I think it's my personality.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
What number child are you?
I'm?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
the third of five.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Oh wow, you're from a posse.
Oh yeah, yeah, so OK.
So there it is.
You are a get along gang kindof gal.
That's why, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
OK, yeah, you got along.
Gang kind of gal, I like that.
I mean she told me that you,yes, yes, so there you go.
Okay, I'm a get along, get inkind of gal, I like that.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You should have told me that.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
And it's funny on my Q&A with my students every
semester I have them say whatnumber child they are, because I
have learned that birth orderdictates so much.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Emily, that's such a great question.
Wait, what else do you ask them?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Because I'm just curious.
Well, you're going to be aguest speaker next semester.
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(24:04):
But I really think, though, whoyou are within birth order, I
have one student this semesterwho is tasked to turn to the
point where I need to yank hervoice out.
Oh yeah, she is one of severalchildren and I can get her to
speak, but when it comes topresenting she's like a cricket
(24:26):
and, you know, reads her notes.
And I said you know, within thefamily, are you the child that
the parents don't need to worryabout, because they always know,
no matter what you'll do, whatyou're supposed to, that you get
everything done, and they knowthey can always rely on you and
always depend on you.
So you're not the wave maker.
That's the kid above you orbelow you.
(24:47):
Yeah, and I said well, you'repaying for this.
You're here.
This is the time for you tofind your voice, share your
voice and be heard.
So, if there's ever a window,this is it.
This is it girl Step up.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, I think like that is great advice, because no
one's just going to like pauseto listen to what you have to
say, unfortunately in the world.
But also she has a perspectiveand a point of view.
She just has to get used tomaybe like sharing it.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Sharing it Something that I can like totally relate
to, because so I think these itsounds like Deepa and Melissa,
and I don't want to say this onfor them, but it sounds like
they were the first Jessechampions to say what do you
have to say?
We're here to hear it andthat's why you were like you're
my people.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yes, I have goosebumps, but yes, that's it.
Like they see something in meand saw something in me at that
point, before I saw it.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So you weren't even hesitant about joining, like
starting a company with them.
You were like, yeah, I'm in it,I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Well, I thought at that time like I have nothing to
lose, like I haven't reallymade a lot of headway in the
career, like I didn't have acareer yet.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
So I felt like I saw it as an opportunity, really,
like the interesting thing is,though, you weren't even the
customer, you weren't thedemographic of the product that
you were designing.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
No, how was it?
Well, I was in that I was goingto work every day and I needed
a bag that was organized, and Iresonated with it because I
needed somewhere to put mythings Like we had real
portfolios at that point.
Oh my God, the big things, yay,the big things.
I was like always carrying thatPlus like swatch book, like
(26:32):
just all my files, all myswatches, just like you know, a
water bottle, the normal things,your keys, your wallet, and I
was like a disheveled messbecause You're so clean looking,
now You've like dewy skin.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
How you're so clean looking, now you've like dewy
skin.
How could that be?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I don't see that as part of your dna.
Well, I spend my life trying tokeep it all in order, I guess.
But yeah, like I was actuallymaking my own bags.
They were like not very cute,but like they worked, because
there was nobody making bags bigenough for like a portfolio,
like.
So I resonated with the conceptand I was like yes, totally
Like, no one's making bags forus, like let's figure out how to
(27:11):
do this, and that was more.
I guess our first collection wasfor working urban women in
particular.
And then a big learning for mewas like how do I apply this to
my life?
And like how do I really likeshare my life?
And like how do I really likeshare my perspective here while
also still kind of creatingvalue through the products that
(27:31):
I'm making?
And that's when I decided todrop a neoprene collection,
which was really more of like anathleisure focus, like that was
your idea.
That was really my baby,because it was like that's me.
I'm very casual, but I stillwant to look very polished and
clean and like nice.
But I want to be organized alsoand be able to like go from the
(27:52):
gym to the office to walking mydog or the coffee shop or
whatever it be like looking good, but I don't need to be like
looking super polished andprofessional all the time.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Are you guys a company at this point?
Were you guys like, that's it,we're incorporated, I'm keeping
my day job, you guys will finishschool, we'll keep doing this
while like and PS to that, like,you're the only one who has the
official name in the name, yeah, as part of this throuple.
So I'd like to you know,because I'm not losing that name
(28:24):
, because I've just, you know,recently.
I love that name because I'vejust, you know, recently.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I love that name for us.
We are a couple.
I mean it's accurate.
We call each other, we're likemarried.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
We're definitely married in yeah, so it makes
sense, but yeah so how were youstill day jobbing and you're
like, okay, yeah, here's thefirst bag, but I really think
neoprene, like let's do thewetsuit material.
And how did all this come topass?
Like were you waking up dayjobbing and then meeting them at
nights and weekends?
And then, yeah, that's how itworked, that's how it worked.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Deep I was like, okay , we need to incorporate, we
need to open up a bank accountmy partners are super organized,
super on top of it, like mypartner at the time when we
started it.
He called them the sharksbecause they were just like on
top of everything all the time,like ahead a million steps.
So I personally was just likealong for that ride of like
incorporating the business andgetting everything going,
(29:14):
raising money.
All of that kind of stuff isreally like their wheelhouse.
And so, okay, step one wecreated the first like product
assortment, which was only twoproducts.
It was a tote and a clutchwallet that you could use as a
combination for your workday tolike take all your stuff to work
and then you could pull out theclutch wallet and like go to
(29:35):
lunch or go to dinner orwhatever.
So you didn't have to carry thewhole tote.
Those two products weretogether as a system we launched
with like this very like work,focused woman run business
aesthetic and like ethos andthat?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
where were they made?
Where were the bags being madelike?
Was that you for sourcing infactories?
Was that on you?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
yes, we worked with a factory in new york city which
I still like deeply adore andhave so much like gratitude for,
because I was so annoying andwe were like just trying so hard
to like figure it out when youknow you can't really produce
anything in new york that's likesuper high quality or like
(30:18):
affordable, just not affordableat all, like it just doesn't
work.
And there are sample rooms here.
So essentially that's what itwas.
It was a sample room who Iconvinced to do our first run of
production and we're convinced,rather, they just agreed to do
it because they were like thisgirl's not going to stop showing
up on our doorstep.
Let's just like do this and getit over with is what I imagine
(30:39):
they were thinking.
But yeah, so like we put ourwebsite up, which we also
designed I think I also designedthat, I don't even remember at
this point and we hosted apre-sale, so we sold based on
our samples, and then we went tothe factory, placed the order,
waited for the samples to befinished or, sorry, the
(31:03):
production line to be finished,and then we shipped to customers
based on that.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
How did you find that ?
How did you find that?
I'm so talking over you andpeople complain, but I get
excited, so I apologize to everylistener.
Well, I'm like listening tothis.
I'm like but, but, but, but,but.
Where did you get the customers?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
We were hustling and sharing with all of our friends
and family.
Everybody knew we were hustlingand sharing with all of our
friends and family.
Like everybody knew we wereworking on it and we had
Instagram and the internet atour disposal, which were like
for brand marketing.
I think we were probably one ofthe first brands that really
like, harnessed it and utilizedit Right In a successful way,
(31:44):
and so we posted on Instagram,facebook, like, had events, we
were hosting events, we had alot of focus groups and
surveying that we had done.
That's NBA designed.
Yep, yeah, that's like where wehad a lot of our I guess
supporters and customers comefrom.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, we just like we're spreading the word like
but can I ask you?
There were other bags and Iremember overhearing this
conversation while you werehaving that meeting where I
peripherally met you guys.
Yeah, there were other brandsat that point who had
organization and pockets.
So what made the three of youdecide that you had a fighting
(32:29):
chance to stand apart from theothers, comparatively to other
products on the market that weretheoretically trying to do the
same thing?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, I didn't mean, I just cut
you off.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
No, no no, no, no.
I mean the takeaway is becauseI started my handbag line while
I was getting my MBA and it wasa beautiful spot to do research
and have students do my heavylifting and that's where you
learn about the SWOT, thecomparative analysis, the
competitive analysis, the deepdive on the customer, and you
know the psychographics and youknow what does she, he, they eat
(33:04):
and what do they drive andwatch it.
All that nonsense.
Most designers don't do that.
That's what an MBA does.
So how are you guys approachingthis, saying, okay, there might
be other bags that havecompartments and organization,
but this is why ours are better,especially you as a designer.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I guess our mission to begin with was to provide
like organized bags toprofessional women at a price
point that was attainable andthat were high quality products
so you could like wipe them,they were durable enough to like
throw around and you didn'thave to treat them like a
(33:42):
designer handbag that's made ofleather and that's like really
soft and like delicate.
At that time, there wereprobably two brands that I could
think of that were hangingtheir coat on organization and
functionality, both of whichwere not cool, and we were, like
you know, millennial women atthat point in our early 20s.
(34:05):
Like we do know, we're notgoing to be caught.
That's not for us.
Yes, when we got to like thedecision of what we were going
to wear, I was like I'll eitherwear something like cute that
doesn't work for me at all, orfor me it was like I'll make my
own.
But for them they were likelike what are we gonna do?
And they just wore these likehandbags and shoved their
computers inside of like kind ofhalf hanging out.
(34:26):
So I think that through all ofthe I mean honestly, emily I
just thought it was like I wouldbuy it like that.
It's not even that.
That's all you need.
I was just like I'm gonna makesomething that I would buy and
then I think my friends wouldwear.
I would like to say that it waslike you know.
Obviously there was a ton ofresearch and like a lot of
(34:46):
thought and analysis put intowhy we created the brand the way
that we did and why we createdthe products that we did.
But from a creative standpoint,I always feel like that's it.
It's not that complicated Likeit can be if you want to make it
that complicated, but it's notRight, right, right right.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
No, I think, listen, we've spoken more about little
Jesse than adult Jesse at thispoint and, like you know, I
could hold you captive foranother three hours.
I know it's all about you.
This is like a nice therapysession.
I call this handbag therapybecause, as somebody said, like
(35:26):
I always tell people, as I toldyou, you're going to end up
telling me something that youhaven't shared, because
everybody else's interviews are,you know, editorial.
Right now is so click driventhat it's all about what are
those?
What are those?
Within a chasm, you know whatis?
The pain points, the challenges, the agony, the solution, the
monetization, like it was theNBA buzzwords, blah, blah, blah.
(35:50):
But I think understanding theorigin story of a designer can
speak volumes about the successas to the brand that they
created and the fact that youknow you're a very positive
person.
You're a very positive person,you're a very kind person,
you're a very complimentaryperson, and it's so not easy to
(36:11):
work with people.
It's not hard, it's not easy tobe married, it's not easy to to
work.
I mean, it's all these thingsbecause everything's a
partnership and it's aboutcompromise.
Yeah, it's really aboutrecognizing, especially with
people with whom you work.
You know everybody gets theirrespective role, but at some
points you have to come togetherand I heard an interview where
(36:32):
partners have said if this isthe nine of importance to me and
a two of importance for you,then we have to be able to come
together and recognize at thatmoment it goes to me for what's
important, yes, as opposed to Iknow at other times it's going
to be a two for me and a 10 foryou and I'm going to say then we
need to listen to what'simportant to you, because I
(36:53):
respect what means to you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, totally.
I mean, it's hard, it's reallyhard.
I think that there are a fewthings that have helped support
me through this, have helpedsupport me through this, but I
think the main thing that hasmade us like successful in our
(37:15):
thruple we'll say is that thatwe that's never gonna get old,
that we all, like, beyond thebrand, we really care about each
other and and the people thatwork for you, like, yeah, the
people that work for us, we'renot like saving lives and so
nothing's really you know, thatbig of a deal at the end of the
(37:36):
day.
So, like being able to like cryto each other and you know,
like vent, like this is a 10 forme and this is why like, and I
just need you to hear me on thisand then being like, ok, well,
let's do it Like.
That is, I guess, like theholding space for each other and
(37:57):
the culturally of Dagny Dover,I've never heard anything
negative.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Wow, yeah, I mean my ears to the ground because I
hear about all this stuff andyou know, it's really
unfortunate that the perceptionof female run companies, yeah,
rah, rah, females, women inbusiness, girl boss, which we
all know, rip has had its day,but yeah, there have been enough
(38:24):
horror stories of female run,specifically handbag brands and
how they've been run.
Because it does Growth ischallenging.
To scale a brand, to go fromone bag to getting a showroom,
to getting an office, to gettingemployees, to getting health
care, to then firing people andthen realizing all of that it's
(38:45):
like that's big kids stuff andit's stuff you know and to
recognize the trajectory of yourbrand, to say, are we a
boutique brand, are we a retailbrand, are we indeed a C brand?
How can we segment how we wantour retail strategy to go?
Because, especially after thepandemic, as I'm sure,
everything had to get flipped onits head because who needed a
(39:06):
work bag?
Nobody needed a bag to beginwith, but who needed a work bag,
you know, I mean that's thetime when anything handbag
related was taking a dip.
So how can you pivot and turnit into travel, turn it into
adventure, turn it intolifestyle, and you know all of
that's really challenging.
So to be able to still worktogether and respect the people
(39:27):
who are working with you and foryou, it's not easy.
It really isn't.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
It's not no, but I think I don't know.
I don't know what it's.
I've never worked at anothercompany, really to be totally
honest with you, so I think it'sreally hard and I don't even
know why.
I guess something that'simportant to me, because I would
categorize myself as ahypersensitive person, and I'm
(39:55):
not.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
You're in the climate where you can be so.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
lucky you, lucky me but it's hard, it's really hard
and I've gone through somemental health struggles and I
think that I just can't operatein a situation that's not
healthy.
Like some people, I even havefriends like this who are like
working at hedge funds andthey're like they're in there,
they're like fighting withpeople all day, yeah, getting
(40:20):
just like they're just part ofthese, like super toxic cultures
that they can come home fromand then just like, let it all
go.
I can't do that.
I just physically can't.
I get sick, I cry all day, likeit's just a sad kind of thing,
like I can't, just like don'thave that, whatever that is.
So it was sort of like not anoption for me to try and create
(40:41):
an environment that like I couldthrive in and I think, by
default, like we ended upcreating something that, yeah, a
really healthy workplace.
Honestly, that is focused a loton like the products that we
create, but also, and then thebrand that we're kind of like I
don't I guess projecting, butthen also like our own, you know
(41:05):
, mental health and like youknow, protection, like it's a
very protected environment.
Right, my opinion, like thedesign room is separate from the
marketing room, is separatefrom, you know, like other rooms
, and that is like not to createseparation but to like hold
(41:26):
like these really delicate.
I guess you could say like howdo I say this?
I like to hold this energeticcreative base.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
It's a balance of power.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
And it's also a balance of power.
Exactly yes.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Do you allow your marketing team to impact design?
Because you know we had anincredible woman on one of the
earlier episodes, jamie Levy,who worked at Steve Madden for
years, and you know the pushbackof having the marketing and
salespeople with the designpeople and you know it's like at
the end of the day, the producthas to be designed to sell.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It does, and I think physical space to design is that
is, protected is very importantfor the design process to
happen.
Right Leadership is reallyimportant, like obviously really
important, but in likedeciphering the information
that's important to come fromthe sales team to the marketing
(42:26):
team.
The marketing team Like, forexample, I would not have, like,
the head of my sales team comein and tell my design team
exactly what they want, becauseit's not going to land like the
way that it needs to.
But if I get that informationand I know what I need to know
from my marketing and sales andbusiness teams, I can give them
(42:48):
that information in a way thatcan be received and implemented
into future designs.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
So I think it's like that's excellent, I must say and
I don't want to say it becauseit's female run and it's
sensitive, you know but itdefinitely doesn't hurt to
recognize that informationthat's the thing, too, is like
it doesn't hurt to be overlysensitive or overly
(43:14):
communicative or overly careful.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You might as well do that.
You might as well do it, yeah,in any situation.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Can I ask you one final question just now?
You know companies.
They've hired me to analyze notso much the health of the
company for acquisition, butjust to evaluate the brand, the
line, like investment firms, tosee if it's worthy of covering
blah, blah, blah.
And one of the key points iscolor, color within the
(43:44):
assortment and typically, toyour point, you have your black,
your brown, your oxblood, yourreddish, yeah, reddish, whatever
that color.
I don't understand personallyhow that color can sell, but
that's some reason.
It's like a neutral.
I don't get it.
I don't get it, but it's withinthe palette.
And then you'll have a pop ofcolor to satisfy whatever the
(44:09):
hot trend.
So everything's hot pink rightnow.
Barbie, blah, blah.
It's not going to stay likethat.
Pink will always be there forgender understood.
People can fight it.
It is what it is.
It is what it is.
Yeah, it is what it is.
That said, for work bags, yourpalette is surprisingly pastel-y
.
Turn that into an adverb.
(44:31):
How did you especially thismuscle thing coming from you how
did you and then we can wrap updetermine that color should be
part of the palette?
Because I see black and ifanybody watches this on YouTube,
they can see your screen behindyou.
But how did you make thatdetermination Because that's
(44:53):
definitely a unique sellingpoint, a brand separator that
you have black and then you havethese I don't want to say
unsafe colors, but they are notoffensive, they are like they're
gentle versions of neutrals.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I guess a part ofwhat's important to me as a
designer and as a consumer islike color is powerful, Like
it's really powerful.
It's very emotional, and theway that people dress and like,
present themselves and createtheir wardrobe is a creative
process based on what they wanttheir own personal brand to be,
(45:36):
and so it's important to me tobe able to offer people, as much
as I can, options to be able todo that for themselves.
I want to do it for myself, too.
Plus, like how good, just like.
How good does it feel if youhave like a cool green outfit
that you're going to wear tolike your yoga class and then
you can buy a bag that's eithercomplimentary to that or like
exact same match?
That feels just like very puttogether, very peaceful, very
(45:58):
organized, very like I don'thave to worry about what I'm
looking like right now, and Ifeel really, really good that
this is an expression of me andnot just like some brand, and
that's why I think that it'simportant to incorporate color
and it just I don't know.
I guess it's like somethingthat my partners also appreciate
(46:19):
, and I also just like see howexcited my team gets when we
incorporate color and print andthings that are like fun and not
just like the usual, and thatme, you know, wherever there is
excitement says that there'slike an appetite for something.
So yeah, like you know, it'sall give and take, though of
course it's like I do get shutdown a lot.
(46:39):
I want to do certain things andthere are colors that don't
sell because they generally justlike don't sit well with people
purple, and that's okay, thathappens.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
It's like a risk that we take, but um, yeah, dude,
jesse, this has been absolutelyphenomenal for the handbag happy
hour.
Slash therapy, slash everything.
Yeah, how can people learn moreabout you, about Dagny Dover?
Where can I get all the goodstuff?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yeah, so we are on Instagram, Facebook, all the
social media platforms as DagnyDover D-A-G-N-E-D-O-V-E-R, and
our website is DagnyDovercom.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Wonderful.
I can't thank you enough.
I'm probably going to want tohave you back for a part two or
like a continuation, becausethis was a surface scratch man.
This was a drive by yes, sothank you so very much.
I encourage everybody to followJessie, follow the brand.
It is a wonderful, specialbrand and I'm just so grateful
(47:46):
to have had you on today.
So thank you so very much.
Thank you, emily.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
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