Ever wonder why some handbags turn heads while others disappear into the crowd? Cathy Schwartz-Shino—veteran of major handbag licenses and founder of Edit Accordingly—pulls back the curtain on what truly makes a brand unforgettable: a strong identity, the right partnerships, and attention to detail. Today’s shopper doesn’t wait for department stores to declare what’s in; they chase meaning and individuality. Whether it’s vintage, upcycled, or a fresh new silhouette, Cathy explains how licensing, royalties, and cohesive design DNA separate authentic brands from imitators. Her message is clear: success isn’t about copying luxury—it’s about owning your signature.
Key Takeaways:
- Authenticity Wins: True success comes from defining your own brand DNA, not replicating others.
- Strategic Growth: Regional strategy and selective partnerships fuel sustainable expansion.
- Creative Focus: Mood boards, collaboration, and local curation keep collections relevant and distinct.
🎧 Tune in for a masterclass on building longevity and luxury in an ever-changing accessories market.
Our Guest:
Cathy Schwartz-Shino is the founder of Edit Accordingly, a consultancy that helps brands refine their creative and business strategies across the accessories space. With decades of experience leading handbag licenses for global brands, Cathy bridges design and commerce—helping companies craft products that resonate deeply with modern consumers.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
The young shopper now, the Gen Zs, and then a
minute ago the Millennials.
They're not shopping at thedepartment stores, maybe for
their basics, but for a handbag?
You and I are of the generationwhere, you know, I want what
everyone else has.
That's when I was a kid.
This generation is way moresavvy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
They want to be unique.
Hi, and welcome to HandbagDesigner 101, the podcast with
your host, Emily Blumenthal,handbag industry expert, and the
handbag carry godmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love from
the iconic brands and topdesigners to creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
(00:38):
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
about handbags, this is yourfront row speed to it all.
Welcome, Kathy Schwartz Chino ofEdit Accordingly to Handbag
Designer101 the podcast.
(00:58):
Welcome.
Welcome, welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Emily, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
So, Kathy, you just asked me why did I have you?
Well, I think there are very fewpeople who know the industry
inside and out, who've workedall different angles and pieces
and parts and had theopportunity to be
entrepreneurial within the spaceof handbags.
(01:23):
There are not a lot of us.
In fact, I'm not even part ofthe us because I never was.
I was like coming in to havemeetings with those uses.
It was never me.
But I think your perspective isinteresting because you've
worked on so many differentfacets of what handbags are.
And I think there's a lot togain from your experience.
(01:46):
So that's it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Thank you for seeing me and celebrating me and
championing every piece of thepuzzle that sometimes we don't
see ourselves.
But yes, and I love theintroduction.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Oh, well, there you go.
So I know at present you are ona handbag of hiatus, as we call
in some shape or form.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Handbag hiatus when it's your personal love, of
course, at the end of the day.
But yes, in the business senseof the world, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
So we we were just chatting about how some people
can get very bitter in the factthat the industry changed, the
business changed, there's noreason to do handbags, that the
tariffs, that it's tooexpensive, that the margins are
bad, that delivery is bad,shipping is bad.
(02:34):
And there's so many rhyme,there's like a a hundred rhymes
of reasons to not do it, butmuch like much like being a
musician, where they say it'simpossible to make money as a
musician because you know thereis the streaming and rights, and
there's still people who getfamous, right?
(02:56):
Always a way.
Right.
There is always a way.
And I was having thisconversation with my students
when we were talking about theirideas and brands and businesses.
And one of my students said,Well, you know, it's impossible
to make money.
And I said, Yeah, it isimpossible to make money except
for the people who are makingmoney.
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
You know, at the end of the day, whether it's
specific to handbags or anyelement of apparel or garments,
couture or fast fashion orwhatever it is, women and men
need to be dressed.
And many of us care about ourimage and how we put ourselves
into the world.
Yeah.
And the person who says, I can'tmake money, of course it's not
(03:37):
easy.
But you have to pivot, you haveto be smart, and you have to
not, in my opinion, not followwhat you did last year or what
that guy's doing, where thewhite spaces, how can I see what
would be interesting here?
Because at the end of the day,we love fashion.
So many people love fashion,whether they're in New York
City, LA, or in smart parts ofthe world, right?
(03:59):
We all have access to socialmedia or all these public
platforms.
We all see things that resonatewith us, whatever your style is.
Do you love an Hermes bed?
Do you love something cute and alittle baguette?
That and everyone has adifferent budget.
And even what I love so much,even the Gen Z that you wouldn't
think typically had the funds toinvest in a designer handbag,
(04:21):
they've redefined vintageshopping and upcycling and
putting a really lovely spin onit.
And handbags, in my humbleopinion, and I know you have to
agree with me, turn your lookinto a head-to-toe look, right?
You have the right handbag on,and you've taken that simple
t-shirt, a cool pair ofhigh-waisted pants and a la
(04:43):
Samba sneaker, but now you havea stick, Chanel bag or a really
bag that feels great to you, andyour shoulders just went a
little higher, you're walkingdown the street.
There is always a customer forthat.
You just have to think how tofind them and where are they
shopping and what are theygravitating toward and what are
what inspires them to find theiruniquely you piece of the
(05:03):
puzzle?
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
Exactly.
So majority of your career, andyou can correct me if I'm I'm
wrong, has been in handbaglicensing.
Can you explain what that means?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
So, again, not to date myself, but while this
piece of the business isn't verybig at the moment, when I
entered my career, a lot ofwhere the money was happening
would be, for example, appareldesigners, knitwear designers,
well-known names, or maybe notwell-known names, but well-known
names, wanted to turn intolifestyle brands, right?
(05:38):
Maybe they so again, being inthe handbag space, they would
come to companies where I was atand pay a royalty to the host to
utilize their name and dependingon who the licensed partner was,
create products with their nameon it.
In my case, we had the luxury ofpartnering with so many really
(05:59):
great brands that allowed thehandbag experts to really take
front and center to understandwhat the landscape looked at
that moment in the handbagworld, who were the retail
players, what should the DNAlook like, but truly inspired by
the designer's aesthetic.
The successful brands, in myopinion, were ones that it
(06:19):
really felt seamless, that therewasn't a license partner on the
other side.
But to answer your question,companies like us would get a
percent of sales and eachcontract would be different.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
So essentially, just to for the layman, a royalty is
almost a rental fee.
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
A little, yeah, absolutely.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
That's right.
So how because I think yourangle is really, really
interesting.
Because I don't think, you know,again, very few people who've
been through iterations of somany different different brands
under different homes,essentially.
How did it work?
Like, okay, just for example, Iknow you had one of the
(07:03):
companies you worked at had thelicense for Christian Siriano.
How did that work?
So, did you learn, like, did hecome in?
Because I know sometimes the thenames of the brands aren't even
around.
So, how did it workhypothetically with licensing?
If you could talk about that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
I would preface the answer to that question to say
the ones that work the best,where the it was the designer,
let's use Christian, absolutelyhad a point of view.
They absolutely had a designaesthetic, and they absolutely
had a following.
The ones where it wouldn't workwould be someone who's just
wanted to make money.
(07:41):
We just want the royalty, wejust want the rental fee.
Well, we had the luxury, and Iwas really blessed throughout my
almost 30 year career to meetpeople like Christian who said,
I absolutely have my point ofview, and I want to inspire you,
but I also trust that you guysunderstand the space.
So if you're telling me, youknow, Kathy and Team, that these
are the retailers we shouldalign with, this is the size of
(08:03):
the collection, and these arethe pieces of puzzles that the
handbag community are workingfor, it was that synergy and
that collaboration that made forsuccess.
So basically, where the beautywould come in, it depended on
the season, what have you, butlet's say there were five and or
four markets a year before themarket, basically the designer
would come in, kind of show uswhat they were doing in their
(08:25):
world.
Let's use Christian, you know,in his space.
And he had two interesting sidesof his business.
I always felt when companiesdecided to say, let's make it
cheaper, let's make it cheaperlive.
That was never my MO.
Doing that doesn't get someoneto buy the brand name, whether
the name was good or bad.
It had to be beautiful.
(08:45):
We can certainly tailor the costdepending on, meaning the
retail, depending on who we weremarketing it to, who we were
selling it to, who the customerwas.
But really, our job was to sayto Christian, based on where you
are and how we are envisioningyour brand and your aesthetic
and what we can do based onsourcing, based on trends, based
(09:06):
on what we think niches are.
I never typically followed whatother guys were doing and tried
to do their version of that bag.
Right, right, right.
We wanted to do something new.
And we were lucky to be alignedwith designers like Christian,
who love that philosophy.
You know, they always say,particularly in handbags, it is
about the brands.
(09:26):
Absolutely.
I'm not going to deny that.
But there also has to be an itfactor, something on the bag
that when you are walking downthe street, you know, from a
million miles away, ooh, that'sa Christian Syriana bag.
Oh my God, that girl is carryinga Zach Posen bag.
And finding those elements by nomeans is easy.
But if you can identify that andreally collaborate with the
name, what inspires them,coupled with your experience in
(09:50):
handbags and being collaborativewith your retail partners, also
really hearing not just what'sworking for them, but what
they're looking for to be ableto create that together, really
can be magical.
So I'm always thinking best inclass retailers, who are going
to be the right partners, toembrace, let's use Christian as
that example again, what he hasto offer, coupled with our
(10:12):
expertise on what we have,what's happening in the
landscape of retail and in thatparticular life in the handbag
landscape, what's drivingbusinesses, what's
oversaturated, what'sunder-saturated, what doesn't
exist right now.
So we would work with Christian,you know, top of season to get
his big picture creative ideas.
We would then circle back tohim, you know, with some mood
(10:35):
boards and some prototypes,meaning initial pieces of a
handbag, a silhouette, a color.
Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Who who made the mood boards?
Did you have like the assistantsdo that?
Or was it collaborative?
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
It was collaborative.
You know, some of it would comeagain, it depended on the
designer.
I actually want to circle backto use Ivanka Trump as a name,
if that's not polarizing or not.
You know what?
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
She had a brand.
It's business.
Like this is business.
Like she had a brand, she hadlicensing, just like multiple
other people who may or may notbe uh of interest to people.
But go back to Ivanka.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Before we had any political ties to her name, and
what I really commended abouther is that she brought on a
best in class team, right?
And so you asked who created amood board.
In her case, her team, becauseto your point, she had other
categories that she waslicensing out from footwear to
apparel to coats and then some.
(11:34):
She would host a bigcollaborative meeting where all
the licensed partners from eachcategory would come in and see
their big picture direction.
These are the prints we'reembracing for this season.
This is the mood of safari orwhatever it was that they felt.
And it was up to each licensedpartner to take that mood board
and then translate it into acollection, into pieces, into
(11:56):
storytelling of the samenarrative.
So that when you went intoperhaps a Bloomingdale's or a
Lord and Taylor or whereNordstrom, that the story from
department to department feltharmonious, right?
So that when they were doingmarketing was a harmonious
story.
And when the customer andconsumer was shopping the brand,
(12:17):
once it got to retail, thatthere was a there was a synergy
between all the lifestylecategories.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
I'm excited to share my new book with you.
Welcome to Savvy Susanna'sAmazing Adventures in Handbags
and the start of Susanna'striumphant journey to become a
young handbag designer.
Filled with ingenuity, fun, anda hint of steam, Susanna will
inspire children and youeverywhere to follow their
dreams and put in the hard workto get there.
Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, Barnes and Noble, or
(12:48):
wherever you get your books.
Thanks for your support.
That sounds like a very logicalway to go about it in terms of
like having a collaborativemeeting in terms of okay, that
to bring everybody in, let'shave a brain trust, let's talk
about it.
Because, you know, likeChristian, as as I've known and
(13:11):
heard, and he's got a goodreputation, he's hands-on, he
knows his brand, he knows hisDNA, he gets it very
open-minded.
Yeah, and that's that's trickybecause so many people are not.
Like anything, it is alsochallenging, right?
(13:32):
Because you're hired as theperson to be an extension of
what the current brand is.
That's right.
Because again, you're also beingpaid.
We've all dealt with difficultclients, but at the end of the
day, like your job is to servicethem.
How do you handle like I callthem basement to Beyoncé?
(13:52):
Because there's plenty of brandswho are successful and popular
and profitable.
But what happens when you'vedealt with a diva and they're
like, I want to be like Chanel,because everybody, you have at
least one every five clients,like, I want to be Fendi, I want
to be here, I want to be this.
And it's like, but you're noteven at Nordstrom, like you're
(14:12):
at Macy's, like your customer isa Macy's customer, therefore the
product needs to reflect aMacy's customer.
Like, you can't have your brandthat's Macy's, and then all of a
sudden, you know, the handbagsare gonna be sold at Neiman's or
Saks.
Like it does not, like A doesnot equal C.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
And you are a hundred percent correct, Emily,
in that you can't get aroundthat.
That said, if you come to saiddesigner from a place of poise
and knowledge and research andperspective, you can quiet that
noise a little bit more.
I'm not gonna say it was easyevery minute of the way.
(14:52):
We definitely had somechallenging conversations along
the way.
But you know, a lot of times Iwant to be Chanel, I want to be
Fenzie, I want to be Gucci, Iwant to be a Neiman's, of
course, who technically doesn't.
But if you position it in a way,it not only I don't land from a
place of here's where you canmake money.
(15:12):
I land from a place of let'sstart best in class, as best as
we possibly can go.
And each brand had a differentjumping off point.
I would kind of say we can getto the volume that you want if
we kind of start from creatingthat identity.
And I always circle back tothat.
I think the challenge becomesmany, not the ones I was with,
(15:37):
but many licensed companies arereally about making money.
And I know I sound silly sayingyou can't lead with that, but I
don't believe you can lead withthat because sure, maybe a
season or two, you'll make somemoney.
But where's the longevity?
The goal is to say don't followwhat Chanel is doing.
(15:57):
Don't be the cheaper Chanel.
Why why is that fabulous?
Don't be the, you know, lessexpensive Fendi.
What do you stand for?
You stand for something.
Let's find that.
And so if you can kind ofposition it to them and not only
show them where the white spacesare and how they are not even
seeing the beauty of theirunique qualities, we can now
(16:18):
help you bring that into yourhandbag category.
Great retailers.
And no, not everyone's ready fordemons.
But usually we got lucky thatmost partners would listen along
the way and understand oh, thosebrands are at Macy's too.
Oh, okay.
Maybe Macy's is okay for me.
I know I wanted sex, but you'reright, maybe that would that's
(16:40):
take there's been too many no's.
You know, thank you guys fortrying.
But and to be fair also, Emily,there is also a huge level of
respect, at least coming fromme.
Those designers are names, mineis not for a reason.
So if they have something thatthey really want, it's our job
to also try it, but in a way onour terms, and marry the two
(17:01):
things together, you know.
If of course Christian wanted tobe in Niemans, and he was an
interesting case because he hadhis couture in the best in class
retailers, and then he had payless.
And our job was tricky to kindof marry the two.
And I think we did a decent jobof doing that, actually, and and
(17:22):
giving something where in thehappy medium, again, it is
better if I go and say it'sbetter if all licensed partners
are on the same page, but that'sa very tricky navigation because
unfortunately, most of them arenot as open-minded as my me and
our teams were, and we weren'tas vision thinking and long-term
thinking.
So it does get tricky with otherlicenses, but we figured it out.
SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
How do you think?
Because everything you're sayingis is pretty much on point for
how a brand, let alone anindependent brand or new brand,
should really thinkstrategically.
Know your DNA, understand yourcustomer, have all the pieces of
the puzzle together, becauseobviously that will influence
pricing, that'll influence howthey're bought, it'll influence
(18:06):
your volume, that's right, yoursocial following, all of that.
But where do you think in termsof where the market is now?
Because everybody moans abouttariffs and it's with good
cause, let's be honest.
It is, but it's today, it's notforever.
That's right.
It is not forever.
And again, people still need tobuy back.
(18:27):
So the one thing, I mean, theone good thing is that with
challenge comes craftiness,comes out-of-the-box thinking,
and with comfort comes staticblah blah.
Like you need to keep that kindof hunger going.
Unfortunately, it's draining andit's exhausting, but depending
(18:49):
on which side, it's like it'sexhilarating and it's exciting.
How do you see the handbaglicensing business evolving from
obviously the market is dilutednow because D2C is so big.
With the designers that I workwith and my students, I always
(19:09):
say, like, so many people noware obsessed with D2C, Drift to
Consumer, but without havingboutique business, and that's
not for every brand, for everybrand that is most likely at the
level where you were at,boutique business probably
wasn't even on their radarbecause they've aged out or grew
out of it.
Not true.
SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
Okay, because and I love that you just mentioned
that, because being strategic,really, in my opinion, for most
brands, and we're gonna this, Ilove everything that you just
said because there are so manyjumping off points that one,
some of our most successfulpartnerships weren't always
about the brand name on the bag,but was to your point,
(19:52):
understanding how to build itfor long-term success.
Yeah.
We heard this quote a thousandtimes it's not a race, it is a
marathon.
I fully, fully embraced thetrade shows, the coteries, the
premier class in Paris, and someof the other fabulous ones too.
The nice thing about that is youlearn a lot because very often
(20:14):
the buyer of the boutique, andthat boutique doesn't only mean
the one stop shop on MainStreet.
It could be a chain of specialtystores.
What we're saying is it's notthe Macy's, the multi-tiered,
you know, those guys have lost alot of their appeal because
they're all following what theother guy's doing, and now you
look the same.
You haven't got sensitive toyour markets.
But the boutiques are really theones often that the owner of the
(20:37):
boutique is very often thebuyer, the manager of her team,
and or hands-on in the store.
You are getting valuableknowledge.
So many of our brands werestarted at that specialty store
level.
Now, granted, times weredifferent, but my heydays and my
fondest memories are of thosetrade shows, the coteries, ah,
(20:58):
you're working a weekend.
I can't wait to work thisweekend.
I can't believe I had to spendextra money to bring in my
friends from the outside to helpus writing orders fast as we
can.
And you know why?
Yes, sure, some of it was at thename, but it's because we found
unique ways to present theirproduct and not look what that
guy's doing, and not look whatthat lady's doing, but doing our
own thing.
(21:19):
So, first and foremost, thesespecialist orders would come
into the booth, what is that?
That's so interesting.
Red Vaz zebra hair cap.
Oh, that's so interesting.
That cool lock.
What is that?
And you know, those who knowknow what brands I'm speaking at
when I say that.
But seeing consistency andshowing that you understood that
level of business, those guysaren't promoting.
(21:41):
They are struggling to keep upwith the promotions, but if they
stayed in their unique curatedway, that's who's appealing.
Those are the stores that theyoung, everyone wants the young
shopper now, the Gen Zs, andthen a minute ago, the
millennials.
They're not shopping at thedepartment stores, maybe for
their basics, but for a handbag,you and I are of the generation
where, you know, I want whateveryone else has.
(22:02):
That's when I was a kid.
This generation is way moresavvy.
They want to be unique.
We love that.
That really gives a newopportunity for particularly
specialty stores to have aresurgence.
I hate that we lost themomentum.
I know that trade showsdefinitely had a dip for a
minute.
Some of that had to do withconsumer shopping, and some of
(22:23):
that simply had to do withcosts.
But if you go back to yourtariff thing that you said in
the very, very beginning, yousaid, oh my God, the tariffs.
Well, that's if you're trying toget it cheaper and cheaper and
cheaper.
No one likes a bag any betterbecause it's a dollar cheaper.
They don't like it.
End of story.
Sorry, but most people who needa new handbag don't maybe need a
new handbag, they want onebecause they want to feel
fabulous.
(22:43):
They feel like it updates theirwhole outfit.
They were terraced five, six,well, how many years ago with
that?
We survived, but you know whathappened?
They happened again, and nowyou're just the ones that are
getting cheaper are out ofbusiness.
That's not the answer.
No one needs a cheaper handbag.
They want something that makesthem feel beautiful because
maybe they're not gonna buy anew coat this season, maybe
they're not gonna buy new jeansthis season, maybe they're not
(23:05):
gonna buy a new blazer thisseason.
But that new bag just took allof those pieces and made it look
like a brand new outfit.
And it's something that becomesa status symbol, regardless of
its price point.
You know, who do you admire?
What do you like?
What is it that you love?
Is it something vegan?
Is it something sustainable?
Was it upcycled?
Is it luxury?
Is it something I found, youknow, in my vintage shopping and
(23:28):
all of these cool what goesaround comes around type of
stores?
You know, young people haveembraced that, but for such a
sociologically good, productiveway, you know, and I love that.
They are not interested in thecheapest bag at TJ bags.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
You know, it's I love all these takeaways.
I'm just curious, do you think,like the companies you worked
for in your heyday that hadmultiple handbag licenses under
one umbrella, do you think thereason why so many of them went
(24:04):
under or couldn't continue ordidn't see the purpose in
continuing was because the costof maintaining a team did not
correlate to retail salesbecause so many retailers'
business had evolved and handbaglicensing still very much
(24:25):
exists, but the manpower to nowreconfigure and recalibrate
where that brand should be isdefinitely not like, okay, we'll
bring the Macy's buyers in,we'll bring the Neiman's buyers,
we'll bring the Ross buyers in.
Do you think that's the reasonfor this evolution?
If you ever wanted to start ahandbag brand and didn't know
(24:46):
where to start, this is for you.
If you had dreams of becoming ahandbag designer but aren't
trained in design, this is foryou.
If you have a handbag brand andneed strategy and direction,
this is for you.
I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbagdesigner expert and handbag
fairy godmother, and this is thehandbag designer 101
(25:06):
masterclass.
Over the next 10 classes, I willbreak down everything you need
to know to make, manufacture,and market a handbag brand.
Broken down to ensure that youwill not only skip steps in the
handbag building process, butalso to save money to avoid the
learning curve of costlymistakes.
For the past 20 years, I've beenteaching at the top fashion
(25:27):
universities in New York City,wrote the handbag designer
Bible, founded the handbagawards, and created the only
handbag designer podcast.
I'm going to show you like Ihave countless brands to create
an in-depth course from sketchto sample to sale.
Whether you're just starting outand don't even know where to
start up again, or if you've hada brand and need some strategic
(25:47):
direction, the handbag designer101 Masterclass is just for you.
So let's get started, and you'llbe the creator of the next it
bag.
Join me, Emily Blumenthal, inthe Handbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
So be sure to sign up at EmilyBlumenthal.com slash masterclass
and type in the code IMCAST toget 10% off your masterclass
(26:11):
today.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
I think like everything in this world, the
price of everything has gone up.
The reality is those on theteams, regardless of the size of
the teams, have gotten smallerand smaller and smaller.
Unfortunately, the traditionalretail landscape has basically
(26:37):
consolidated to that if you'renot in bed with that one
retailer, that retailer, you areeither in or you're out.
And that could bury a company.
Diversifying, yeah, and keeping,you know, diversifying your
assortment and your offering andyour retail landscape could in
(26:59):
if you can weather the storm getyou on a path for long-term
success.
Most unfortunately, in myopinion, most those that are
left that are still embraced inlicensing slap the name, put it
on a bag, negotiated as much asthey could for the factory.
You needed maybe that formulaworked 10 years ago.
(27:20):
I never liked that formula, butmaybe it did because there were
many of those retailers thatcould buy it.
That's just not the caseanymore.
That retailer is buying him andnot her, and she's now out of
business.
So if you really think insidethe old school ways of who the
retail partners are, there'svery few of them.
But so many people are shoppingbecause the teams need to do
(27:43):
their legwork and see it mighttake more work to align with
boutiques.
You have to have the bandwidthfor that.
You have to have the stamina forthat.
But there's such beauty and gameto be coming from that, you
know.
I think those that fell had twobig misses, and that is trying
to make the cheaper chicken.
(28:04):
Cheaper didn't make it prettier,cheaper didn't appeal to someone
new out of the box and didn'tget customers into your store,
let alone to buy the cheapergreen bag instead of the one
over there that looks like thecheaper Chanel, the cheaper bag.
Like no one wants that, right?
I I think the other hiccup wasthat I think some of the the
cost to participate in findingthe specialty stores got really
(28:27):
high for a lot of these up andcomers.
To be honest, behind the curtainis expensive.
Licensing is even that much moreexpensive.
So I do see that a lot ofbrands, big ones, small ones,
emerging ones, you know, next upones, are attempting a D to C.
They don't know where else tostart because it's so expensive.
(28:47):
But it is very expensive to havea D2C business because
operationally the costs arecrazy.
Your team isn't going into salesand researching, it's going into
getting that out the door.
The other piece of it'smarketing.
It's really costly to market.
Licensed teams are not doingthat.
They're certainly not spendingany money that they're making
from the licensed partnership onit.
(29:10):
And then often the brand, theowner of the brand, is marketing
many other things.
So there's a huge disconnect,which is some of the reasons I
think that licensing might have,you know, fallen off a bit,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
How do you think someone could have a successful
license now?
Like, why does someone go intolicensing?
Well, they have enough brand DNAthat they know it can translate
into another classification orcategory.
Why do you not do it in-house?
Because you're calling uponsomeone whose specialty, let's
take handbags, their specialtyis handbags.
That's what they do.
(29:42):
They have the relationships,they have the connections, they
have the resources to take, likeyou said, take that DNA and
translate it.
Licensing is still very much amoneymaker, but you know, the
whole goal of bringing onsomeone else is volume, right?
You want someone to get hundredsof thousands of.
Units sold of your product, notthe tens, not the fives, not
(30:03):
negotiating with the factorylike a smaller brand saying,
what's the smallest MOQ that youcan do for me?
So how do you think, in yourprofessional seasoned opinion,
one could have a successfullicense now with the state of
the market?
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
I would be definitely embracing it now.
I think I don't honestly, Idon't know if I have the answer.
I think what you said makes alot of sense.
I think it's a two-fold thing.
It's not just brand notlistening to what best in class
licensed partner has to say.
I think that a lot of peoplehave maybe lost their confidence
(30:44):
and maybe lost sight of thereality at the end of the day.
Of course it's about makingmoney.
I'd be a fool to say it wasn't.
We wouldn't keep our lights onat the end of the day.
But if we did go back tograssroots a little bit and
really took the license, thepeople who held the licenses,
the manufacturers, the handbagexperts for this conversation,
(31:07):
if we went back to thatphilosophy that did work many
years ago, which was what doesthis said designer stand for?
What's the aesthetic?
What makes it different thaneverything else out there?
How can we put something uniqueout there?
And how can we streamline whichretail partners make sense and
stay aligned with that?
(31:28):
Because so many traditionalretailers have merged.
I mean, obviously, we rememberdays when Federated was lots of
little stores, right?
And all every unfortunately,they're all one big store now.
Maybe if that's the formula andyou have to align with one
partner, you you've chosenMacy's as your benchmark.
Well, Macy's in Arizona is notthe same as Macy's in Florida.
(31:54):
I think what could really kindof mush this back together, and
I know costs are tricky, but Ithink there needs to be a lot of
synergy and work and investmentmade on the regionality of some
of it.
Yep.
I think that we've gotten awayfrom that.
And I think that could, if wedid focus on that, you could
definitely inspire specialtystores because typically they
(32:15):
have one to let's just say 10stores in specific markets.
But if you really picked Macy'sas your choice or Bloomingdale's
as your choice, and you stayedlaser focused on each of their
stores, and it doesn't meancreate different collections,
but really being sensitive, notjust to the A door, the B door,
the smaller assortment.
Oh, now the E door's got theworst assortment.
(32:36):
Why?
The person in that e-storecommunity, if that's what you're
calling it, they have access tosocial media just like everyone
else.
They know it's fabulous, justlike everybody else.
Yeah.
So I think that unfortunately,between everyone trying to get
things as cheap as possible andcheaper than that guy, plus just
losing sight of being unique andsensitive to each regional area,
(32:58):
age is not the thing anymore.
It's just not like whatever,maybe I'm older, but I have a
young sensibility.
I want something that feels cooland fabulous to me, right?
It's not, I think I'm in Vermontnow.
I'm a New York City girl.
I live in Tribeca, right?
But I'm in Vermont now.
Does that mean I all of a suddenwanted to go to their local
family dollar store and get thewhatever tote bag is in there?
(33:19):
Of course not.
I'm still me, regardless ofwhere I am, you know.
So I think if we could stop thesole focus being on tariffs and
let's get this cheaper, how canwe cheapen this bag?
Right.
Coupled with some sensitivity tocarving out the niches and
finding, I love the termuniquely you and making
something special.
(33:40):
You could even probably be verysuccessful with a Macy's or a
Nordstrom or a Bloomingdale's.
Unfortunately, you probably justhave to pick your lane and stay
laser focused on it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
I think that's a really great way for us to wrap
up.
I have this conversation with mystudents just because Urban
Outfitters is the easiest casestudy that's visible.
So, you know, I asked mystudents, who knows urban
outfitters?
Hands go up.
Has anyone looked at theassortment?
(34:11):
Assortment's a word you need tolearn.
Assortment at an urbanoutfitters.
Again, we're in New York City,the assortment on the upper west
side versus the East Village.
Okay, hands go up.
And I'm like, okay, let's talk.
Do they sell the same product?
And then that opens up adialogue.
Actually, no, they can't.
It's a different costumer.
This one has this, this one hasthat.
And then I say, okay, who's notfrom New York?
(34:33):
Yeah, I'm from Virginia.
I'm from here.
I'm like, okay, talk to me whatthey sell at your urban
outfitters.
And it's usually the productthat didn't sell at the other
stores.
So again, like I really thinkwhat you said hit the nail on
the head is regionality.
I think that's a great way forus to really wrap up.
(34:54):
That it's so much more because Italk about this ad nauseum.
Yes, product is key, but unlessyou understand your customers'
ethnography of how they'veevolved, what do they have to
drink, what coffee, what car,what color.
You know, the person in theFlorida area, even in Florida,
(35:16):
the Tampa customer is not thesame as the Miami customer.
So, but they both will probablybe more likely to like a
brighter print, a lighter color.
You know, they'll be more likelyto be bolder in their choices
than a New York customer versusa New Jersey customer because
they're driving to go shop.
So I think going back to thedrawing board and really
(35:38):
understanding what makes yourcustomer tick is probably in it
sounds like in our collectiveopinion, would be the secret to
how licensing could probably getits footing back within at least
within handbags.
But again, I think people havebecome, I don't want to say
lazy, but people have continuedto try and say, let's just keep
the Macy's business.
(35:58):
We'll get it cheaper, what youknow, what this door, that door,
this units, and it's you have tokind of press pause and say, all
right, we need to go back andreally do an analysis on our
customer.
Like I've had um, I had anincubator, I've hosted a few of
them, handbag designerincubators.
And every single time, everytime these customers, these
(36:20):
designers within it alwaysbelieve that their customer,
regardless of price point, isthis fabulous, metropolitan,
beautiful people person.
And then the next point is whenI ask them who is their
customer, I will get the rangeof 15 to 60 or 15 to 65.
And it's really funny because,you know, the 15-year-old is not
(36:43):
buying for herself and the65-year-old's messaging you
because she's looking for anactivity and is excited to
connect and just want someone toacknowledge what she's done.
So, you know, you need to findthat sweet spot, and then you
need to go back and see, okay,we can't hit up nationwide off
Macy's doors.
Like, let's focus on the doorsthat we know where she, he, they
(37:06):
are, and let's go back to thedrawing board.
SPEAKER_00 (37:09):
Do you want to wrap that circle?
I do in an idyllic world, someof that's on the retailer too.
We used to have buyers fordifferent regions, they used to
have different store names underthe umbrella.
Unfortunately, there's so muchon the buying teams now, too.
Yeah, they're no longer comingin and looking at the actual
(37:32):
product often.
Yeah, not that's not everybody,right?
They have too much on theirplate.
Yep.
Right.
So they're not solidation toomuch.
Consolidation, actually, justsaving the dime today lost you
thousands tomorrow because andthat's unfortunately affected
both ends of the spectrum.
SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
Oh my God.
Kathy Schwartz Shino.
How can we find you, follow you,learn more about what you're
doing right now?
How can we learn more?
SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
Learn more.
Well, I launched EditAccordingly.
It is an image consultancy and astyle clinic, really here and
setting out to champion women,helping us all feel seen and
celebrated sometimes from theoasis of our own closets.
I also align with companies tomake sure that their teams
understand the strategy oflooking great on the job and
(38:22):
avoiding the confusion in theworkplace to be more productive.
So you can find me at ateditacordingly on Instagram as
well as at edit accordingly onLinkedIn.
And you can also check out mywebsite.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Okay, and if anybody wants to find you on LinkedIn,
it's Kathy with a C, SchwartzS-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z, and Shino,
spell it for us.
S-I-N-O.
S-C-H-I-N-O.
Okay, it dipped out a littlebit.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for joiningus, Kathy.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
(38:59):
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
The young shopper now, the Gen Zs, and then a
minute ago the Millennials.
They're not shopping at thedepartment stores, maybe for
their basics, but for a handbag?
You and I are of the generationwhere, you know, I want what
everyone else has.
That's when I was a kid.
This generation is way moresavvy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
They want to be unique.
Hi, and welcome to HandbagDesigner 101, the podcast with
your host, Emily Blumenthal,handbag industry expert, and the
handbag carry godmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love from
the iconic brands and topdesigners to creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
(00:38):
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
about handbags, this is yourfront row speed to it all.
Welcome, Kathy Schwartz Chino ofEdit Accordingly to Handbag
Designer101 the podcast.
(00:58):
Welcome.
Welcome, welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Emily, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
So, Kathy, you just asked me why did I have you?
Well, I think there are very fewpeople who know the industry
inside and out, who've workedall different angles and pieces
and parts and had theopportunity to be
entrepreneurial within the spaceof handbags.
(01:23):
There are not a lot of us.
In fact, I'm not even part ofthe us because I never was.
I was like coming in to havemeetings with those uses.
It was never me.
But I think your perspective isinteresting because you've
worked on so many differentfacets of what handbags are.
And I think there's a lot togain from your experience.
(01:46):
So that's it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Thank you for seeing me and celebrating me and
championing every piece of thepuzzle that sometimes we don't
see ourselves.
But yes, and I love theintroduction.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Oh, well, there you go.
So I know at present you are ona handbag of hiatus, as we call
in some shape or form.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Handbag hiatus when it's your personal love, of
course, at the end of the day.
But yes, in the business senseof the world, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
So we we were just chatting about how some people
can get very bitter in the factthat the industry changed, the
business changed, there's noreason to do handbags, that the
tariffs, that it's tooexpensive, that the margins are
bad, that delivery is bad,shipping is bad.
(02:34):
And there's so many rhyme,there's like a a hundred rhymes
of reasons to not do it, butmuch like much like being a
musician, where they say it'simpossible to make money as a
musician because you know thereis the streaming and rights, and
there's still people who getfamous, right?
(02:56):
Always a way.
Right.
There is always a way.
And I was having thisconversation with my students
when we were talking about theirideas and brands and businesses.
And one of my students said,Well, you know, it's impossible
to make money.
And I said, Yeah, it isimpossible to make money except
for the people who are makingmoney.
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
You know, at the end of the day, whether it's
specific to handbags or anyelement of apparel or garments,
couture or fast fashion orwhatever it is, women and men
need to be dressed.
And many of us care about ourimage and how we put ourselves
into the world.
Yeah.
And the person who says, I can'tmake money, of course it's not
(03:37):
easy.
But you have to pivot, you haveto be smart, and you have to
not, in my opinion, not followwhat you did last year or what
that guy's doing, where thewhite spaces, how can I see what
would be interesting here?
Because at the end of the day,we love fashion.
So many people love fashion,whether they're in New York
City, LA, or in smart parts ofthe world, right?
(03:59):
We all have access to socialmedia or all these public
platforms.
We all see things that resonatewith us, whatever your style is.
Do you love an Hermes bed?
Do you love something cute and alittle baguette?
That and everyone has adifferent budget.
And even what I love so much,even the Gen Z that you wouldn't
think typically had the funds toinvest in a designer handbag,
(04:21):
they've redefined vintageshopping and upcycling and
putting a really lovely spin onit.
And handbags, in my humbleopinion, and I know you have to
agree with me, turn your lookinto a head-to-toe look, right?
You have the right handbag on,and you've taken that simple
t-shirt, a cool pair ofhigh-waisted pants and a la
(04:43):
Samba sneaker, but now you havea stick, Chanel bag or a really
bag that feels great to you, andyour shoulders just went a
little higher, you're walkingdown the street.
There is always a customer forthat.
You just have to think how tofind them and where are they
shopping and what are theygravitating toward and what are
what inspires them to find theiruniquely you piece of the
(05:03):
puzzle?
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
Exactly.
So majority of your career, andyou can correct me if I'm I'm
wrong, has been in handbaglicensing.
Can you explain what that means?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
So, again, not to date myself, but while this
piece of the business isn't verybig at the moment, when I
entered my career, a lot ofwhere the money was happening
would be, for example, appareldesigners, knitwear designers,
well-known names, or maybe notwell-known names, but well-known
names, wanted to turn intolifestyle brands, right?
(05:38):
Maybe they so again, being inthe handbag space, they would
come to companies where I was atand pay a royalty to the host to
utilize their name and dependingon who the licensed partner was,
create products with their nameon it.
In my case, we had the luxury ofpartnering with so many really
(05:59):
great brands that allowed thehandbag experts to really take
front and center to understandwhat the landscape looked at
that moment in the handbagworld, who were the retail
players, what should the DNAlook like, but truly inspired by
the designer's aesthetic.
The successful brands, in myopinion, were ones that it
(06:19):
really felt seamless, that therewasn't a license partner on the
other side.
But to answer your question,companies like us would get a
percent of sales and eachcontract would be different.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
So essentially, just to for the layman, a royalty is
almost a rental fee.
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
A little, yeah, absolutely.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
That's right.
So how because I think yourangle is really, really
interesting.
Because I don't think, you know,again, very few people who've
been through iterations of somany different different brands
under different homes,essentially.
How did it work?
Like, okay, just for example, Iknow you had one of the
(07:03):
companies you worked at had thelicense for Christian Siriano.
How did that work?
So, did you learn, like, did hecome in?
Because I know sometimes the thenames of the brands aren't even
around.
So, how did it workhypothetically with licensing?
If you could talk about that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
I would preface the answer to that question to say
the ones that work the best,where the it was the designer,
let's use Christian, absolutelyhad a point of view.
They absolutely had a designaesthetic, and they absolutely
had a following.
The ones where it wouldn't workwould be someone who's just
wanted to make money.
(07:41):
We just want the royalty, wejust want the rental fee.
Well, we had the luxury, and Iwas really blessed throughout my
almost 30 year career to meetpeople like Christian who said,
I absolutely have my point ofview, and I want to inspire you,
but I also trust that you guysunderstand the space.
So if you're telling me, youknow, Kathy and Team, that these
are the retailers we shouldalign with, this is the size of
(08:03):
the collection, and these arethe pieces of puzzles that the
handbag community are workingfor, it was that synergy and
that collaboration that made forsuccess.
So basically, where the beautywould come in, it depended on
the season, what have you, butlet's say there were five and or
four markets a year before themarket, basically the designer
would come in, kind of show uswhat they were doing in their
(08:25):
world.
Let's use Christian, you know,in his space.
And he had two interesting sidesof his business.
I always felt when companiesdecided to say, let's make it
cheaper, let's make it cheaperlive.
That was never my MO.
Doing that doesn't get someoneto buy the brand name, whether
the name was good or bad.
It had to be beautiful.
(08:45):
We can certainly tailor the costdepending on, meaning the
retail, depending on who we weremarketing it to, who we were
selling it to, who the customerwas.
But really, our job was to sayto Christian, based on where you
are and how we are envisioningyour brand and your aesthetic
and what we can do based onsourcing, based on trends, based
(09:06):
on what we think niches are.
I never typically followed whatother guys were doing and tried
to do their version of that bag.
Right, right, right.
We wanted to do something new.
And we were lucky to be alignedwith designers like Christian,
who love that philosophy.
You know, they always say,particularly in handbags, it is
about the brands.
(09:26):
Absolutely.
I'm not going to deny that.
But there also has to be an itfactor, something on the bag
that when you are walking downthe street, you know, from a
million miles away, ooh, that'sa Christian Syriana bag.
Oh my God, that girl is carryinga Zach Posen bag.
And finding those elements by nomeans is easy.
But if you can identify that andreally collaborate with the
name, what inspires them,coupled with your experience in
(09:50):
handbags and being collaborativewith your retail partners, also
really hearing not just what'sworking for them, but what
they're looking for to be ableto create that together, really
can be magical.
So I'm always thinking best inclass retailers, who are going
to be the right partners, toembrace, let's use Christian as
that example again, what he hasto offer, coupled with our
(10:12):
expertise on what we have,what's happening in the
landscape of retail and in thatparticular life in the handbag
landscape, what's drivingbusinesses, what's
oversaturated, what'sunder-saturated, what doesn't
exist right now.
So we would work with Christian,you know, top of season to get
his big picture creative ideas.
We would then circle back tohim, you know, with some mood
(10:35):
boards and some prototypes,meaning initial pieces of a
handbag, a silhouette, a color.
Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Who who made the mood boards?
Did you have like the assistantsdo that?
Or was it collaborative?
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
It was collaborative.
You know, some of it would comeagain, it depended on the
designer.
I actually want to circle backto use Ivanka Trump as a name,
if that's not polarizing or not.
You know what?
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
She had a brand.
It's business.
Like this is business.
Like she had a brand, she hadlicensing, just like multiple
other people who may or may notbe uh of interest to people.
But go back to Ivanka.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Before we had any political ties to her name, and
what I really commended abouther is that she brought on a
best in class team, right?
And so you asked who created amood board.
In her case, her team, becauseto your point, she had other
categories that she waslicensing out from footwear to
apparel to coats and then some.
(11:34):
She would host a bigcollaborative meeting where all
the licensed partners from eachcategory would come in and see
their big picture direction.
These are the prints we'reembracing for this season.
This is the mood of safari orwhatever it was that they felt.
And it was up to each licensedpartner to take that mood board
and then translate it into acollection, into pieces, into
(11:56):
storytelling of the samenarrative.
So that when you went intoperhaps a Bloomingdale's or a
Lord and Taylor or whereNordstrom, that the story from
department to department feltharmonious, right?
So that when they were doingmarketing was a harmonious
story.
And when the customer andconsumer was shopping the brand,
(12:17):
once it got to retail, thatthere was a there was a synergy
between all the lifestylecategories.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
I'm excited to share my new book with you.
Welcome to Savvy Susanna'sAmazing Adventures in Handbags
and the start of Susanna'striumphant journey to become a
young handbag designer.
Filled with ingenuity, fun, anda hint of steam, Susanna will
inspire children and youeverywhere to follow their
dreams and put in the hard workto get there.
Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, Barnes and Noble, or
(12:48):
wherever you get your books.
Thanks for your support.
That sounds like a very logicalway to go about it in terms of
like having a collaborativemeeting in terms of okay, that
to bring everybody in, let'shave a brain trust, let's talk
about it.
Because, you know, likeChristian, as as I've known and
(13:11):
heard, and he's got a goodreputation, he's hands-on, he
knows his brand, he knows hisDNA, he gets it very
open-minded.
Yeah, and that's that's trickybecause so many people are not.
Like anything, it is alsochallenging, right?
(13:32):
Because you're hired as theperson to be an extension of
what the current brand is.
That's right.
Because again, you're also beingpaid.
We've all dealt with difficultclients, but at the end of the
day, like your job is to servicethem.
How do you handle like I callthem basement to Beyoncé?
(13:52):
Because there's plenty of brandswho are successful and popular
and profitable.
But what happens when you'vedealt with a diva and they're
like, I want to be like Chanel,because everybody, you have at
least one every five clients,like, I want to be Fendi, I want
to be here, I want to be this.
And it's like, but you're noteven at Nordstrom, like you're
(14:12):
at Macy's, like your customer isa Macy's customer, therefore the
product needs to reflect aMacy's customer.
Like, you can't have your brandthat's Macy's, and then all of a
sudden, you know, the handbagsare gonna be sold at Neiman's or
Saks.
Like it does not, like A doesnot equal C.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
And you are a hundred percent correct, Emily,
in that you can't get aroundthat.
That said, if you come to saiddesigner from a place of poise
and knowledge and research andperspective, you can quiet that
noise a little bit more.
I'm not gonna say it was easyevery minute of the way.
(14:52):
We definitely had somechallenging conversations along
the way.
But you know, a lot of times Iwant to be Chanel, I want to be
Fenzie, I want to be Gucci, Iwant to be a Neiman's, of
course, who technically doesn't.
But if you position it in a way,it not only I don't land from a
place of here's where you canmake money.
(15:12):
I land from a place of let'sstart best in class, as best as
we possibly can go.
And each brand had a differentjumping off point.
I would kind of say we can getto the volume that you want if
we kind of start from creatingthat identity.
And I always circle back tothat.
I think the challenge becomesmany, not the ones I was with,
(15:37):
but many licensed companies arereally about making money.
And I know I sound silly sayingyou can't lead with that, but I
don't believe you can lead withthat because sure, maybe a
season or two, you'll make somemoney.
But where's the longevity?
The goal is to say don't followwhat Chanel is doing.
(15:57):
Don't be the cheaper Chanel.
Why why is that fabulous?
Don't be the, you know, lessexpensive Fendi.
What do you stand for?
You stand for something.
Let's find that.
And so if you can kind ofposition it to them and not only
show them where the white spacesare and how they are not even
seeing the beauty of theirunique qualities, we can now
(16:18):
help you bring that into yourhandbag category.
Great retailers.
And no, not everyone's ready fordemons.
But usually we got lucky thatmost partners would listen along
the way and understand oh, thosebrands are at Macy's too.
Oh, okay.
Maybe Macy's is okay for me.
I know I wanted sex, but you'reright, maybe that would that's
(16:40):
take there's been too many no's.
You know, thank you guys fortrying.
But and to be fair also, Emily,there is also a huge level of
respect, at least coming fromme.
Those designers are names, mineis not for a reason.
So if they have something thatthey really want, it's our job
to also try it, but in a way onour terms, and marry the two
(17:01):
things together, you know.
If of course Christian wanted tobe in Niemans, and he was an
interesting case because he hadhis couture in the best in class
retailers, and then he had payless.
And our job was tricky to kindof marry the two.
And I think we did a decent jobof doing that, actually, and and
(17:22):
giving something where in thehappy medium, again, it is
better if I go and say it'sbetter if all licensed partners
are on the same page, but that'sa very tricky navigation because
unfortunately, most of them arenot as open-minded as my me and
our teams were, and we weren'tas vision thinking and long-term
thinking.
So it does get tricky with otherlicenses, but we figured it out.
SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
How do you think?
Because everything you're sayingis is pretty much on point for
how a brand, let alone anindependent brand or new brand,
should really thinkstrategically.
Know your DNA, understand yourcustomer, have all the pieces of
the puzzle together, becauseobviously that will influence
pricing, that'll influence howthey're bought, it'll influence
(18:06):
your volume, that's right, yoursocial following, all of that.
But where do you think in termsof where the market is now?
Because everybody moans abouttariffs and it's with good
cause, let's be honest.
It is, but it's today, it's notforever.
That's right.
It is not forever.
And again, people still need tobuy back.
(18:27):
So the one thing, I mean, theone good thing is that with
challenge comes craftiness,comes out-of-the-box thinking,
and with comfort comes staticblah blah.
Like you need to keep that kindof hunger going.
Unfortunately, it's draining andit's exhausting, but depending
(18:49):
on which side, it's like it'sexhilarating and it's exciting.
How do you see the handbaglicensing business evolving from
obviously the market is dilutednow because D2C is so big.
With the designers that I workwith and my students, I always
(19:09):
say, like, so many people noware obsessed with D2C, Drift to
Consumer, but without havingboutique business, and that's
not for every brand, for everybrand that is most likely at the
level where you were at,boutique business probably
wasn't even on their radarbecause they've aged out or grew
out of it.
Not true.
SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
Okay, because and I love that you just mentioned
that, because being strategic,really, in my opinion, for most
brands, and we're gonna this, Ilove everything that you just
said because there are so manyjumping off points that one,
some of our most successfulpartnerships weren't always
about the brand name on the bag,but was to your point,
(19:52):
understanding how to build itfor long-term success.
Yeah.
We heard this quote a thousandtimes it's not a race, it is a
marathon.
I fully, fully embraced thetrade shows, the coteries, the
premier class in Paris, and someof the other fabulous ones too.
The nice thing about that is youlearn a lot because very often
(20:14):
the buyer of the boutique, andthat boutique doesn't only mean
the one stop shop on MainStreet.
It could be a chain of specialtystores.
What we're saying is it's notthe Macy's, the multi-tiered,
you know, those guys have lost alot of their appeal because
they're all following what theother guy's doing, and now you
look the same.
You haven't got sensitive toyour markets.
But the boutiques are really theones often that the owner of the
(20:37):
boutique is very often thebuyer, the manager of her team,
and or hands-on in the store.
You are getting valuableknowledge.
So many of our brands werestarted at that specialty store
level.
Now, granted, times weredifferent, but my heydays and my
fondest memories are of thosetrade shows, the coteries, ah,
(20:58):
you're working a weekend.
I can't wait to work thisweekend.
I can't believe I had to spendextra money to bring in my
friends from the outside to helpus writing orders fast as we
can.
And you know why?
Yes, sure, some of it was at thename, but it's because we found
unique ways to present theirproduct and not look what that
guy's doing, and not look whatthat lady's doing, but doing our
own thing.
(21:19):
So, first and foremost, thesespecialist orders would come
into the booth, what is that?
That's so interesting.
Red Vaz zebra hair cap.
Oh, that's so interesting.
That cool lock.
What is that?
And you know, those who knowknow what brands I'm speaking at
when I say that.
But seeing consistency andshowing that you understood that
level of business, those guysaren't promoting.
(21:41):
They are struggling to keep upwith the promotions, but if they
stayed in their unique curatedway, that's who's appealing.
Those are the stores that theyoung, everyone wants the young
shopper now, the Gen Zs, andthen a minute ago, the
millennials.
They're not shopping at thedepartment stores, maybe for
their basics, but for a handbag,you and I are of the generation
where, you know, I want whateveryone else has.
(22:02):
That's when I was a kid.
This generation is way moresavvy.
They want to be unique.
We love that.
That really gives a newopportunity for particularly
specialty stores to have aresurgence.
I hate that we lost themomentum.
I know that trade showsdefinitely had a dip for a
minute.
Some of that had to do withconsumer shopping, and some of
(22:23):
that simply had to do withcosts.
But if you go back to yourtariff thing that you said in
the very, very beginning, yousaid, oh my God, the tariffs.
Well, that's if you're trying toget it cheaper and cheaper and
cheaper.
No one likes a bag any betterbecause it's a dollar cheaper.
They don't like it.
End of story.
Sorry, but most people who needa new handbag don't maybe need a
new handbag, they want onebecause they want to feel
fabulous.
(22:43):
They feel like it updates theirwhole outfit.
They were terraced five, six,well, how many years ago with
that?
We survived, but you know whathappened?
They happened again, and nowyou're just the ones that are
getting cheaper are out ofbusiness.
That's not the answer.
No one needs a cheaper handbag.
They want something that makesthem feel beautiful because
maybe they're not gonna buy anew coat this season, maybe
they're not gonna buy new jeansthis season, maybe they're not
(23:05):
gonna buy a new blazer thisseason.
But that new bag just took allof those pieces and made it look
like a brand new outfit.
And it's something that becomesa status symbol, regardless of
its price point.
You know, who do you admire?
What do you like?
What is it that you love?
Is it something vegan?
Is it something sustainable?
Was it upcycled?
Is it luxury?
Is it something I found, youknow, in my vintage shopping and
(23:28):
all of these cool what goesaround comes around type of
stores?
You know, young people haveembraced that, but for such a
sociologically good, productiveway, you know, and I love that.
They are not interested in thecheapest bag at TJ bags.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
You know, it's I love all these takeaways.
I'm just curious, do you think,like the companies you worked
for in your heyday that hadmultiple handbag licenses under
one umbrella, do you think thereason why so many of them went
(24:04):
under or couldn't continue ordidn't see the purpose in
continuing was because the costof maintaining a team did not
correlate to retail salesbecause so many retailers'
business had evolved and handbaglicensing still very much
(24:25):
exists, but the manpower to nowreconfigure and recalibrate
where that brand should be isdefinitely not like, okay, we'll
bring the Macy's buyers in,we'll bring the Neiman's buyers,
we'll bring the Ross buyers in.
Do you think that's the reasonfor this evolution?
If you ever wanted to start ahandbag brand and didn't know
(24:46):
where to start, this is for you.
If you had dreams of becoming ahandbag designer but aren't
trained in design, this is foryou.
If you have a handbag brand andneed strategy and direction,
this is for you.
I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbagdesigner expert and handbag
fairy godmother, and this is thehandbag designer 101
(25:06):
masterclass.
Over the next 10 classes, I willbreak down everything you need
to know to make, manufacture,and market a handbag brand.
Broken down to ensure that youwill not only skip steps in the
handbag building process, butalso to save money to avoid the
learning curve of costlymistakes.
For the past 20 years, I've beenteaching at the top fashion
(25:27):
universities in New York City,wrote the handbag designer
Bible, founded the handbagawards, and created the only
handbag designer podcast.
I'm going to show you like Ihave countless brands to create
an in-depth course from sketchto sample to sale.
Whether you're just starting outand don't even know where to
start up again, or if you've hada brand and need some strategic
(25:47):
direction, the handbag designer101 Masterclass is just for you.
So let's get started, and you'llbe the creator of the next it
bag.
Join me, Emily Blumenthal, inthe Handbag Designer 101
Masterclass.
So be sure to sign up at EmilyBlumenthal.com slash masterclass
and type in the code IMCAST toget 10% off your masterclass
(26:11):
today.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
I think like everything in this world, the
price of everything has gone up.
The reality is those on theteams, regardless of the size of
the teams, have gotten smallerand smaller and smaller.
Unfortunately, the traditionalretail landscape has basically
(26:37):
consolidated to that if you'renot in bed with that one
retailer, that retailer, you areeither in or you're out.
And that could bury a company.
Diversifying, yeah, and keeping,you know, diversifying your
assortment and your offering andyour retail landscape could in
(26:59):
if you can weather the storm getyou on a path for long-term
success.
Most unfortunately, in myopinion, most those that are
left that are still embraced inlicensing slap the name, put it
on a bag, negotiated as much asthey could for the factory.
You needed maybe that formulaworked 10 years ago.
(27:20):
I never liked that formula, butmaybe it did because there were
many of those retailers thatcould buy it.
That's just not the caseanymore.
That retailer is buying him andnot her, and she's now out of
business.
So if you really think insidethe old school ways of who the
retail partners are, there'svery few of them.
But so many people are shoppingbecause the teams need to do
(27:43):
their legwork and see it mighttake more work to align with
boutiques.
You have to have the bandwidthfor that.
You have to have the stamina forthat.
But there's such beauty and gameto be coming from that, you
know.
I think those that fell had twobig misses, and that is trying
to make the cheaper chicken.
(28:04):
Cheaper didn't make it prettier,cheaper didn't appeal to someone
new out of the box and didn'tget customers into your store,
let alone to buy the cheapergreen bag instead of the one
over there that looks like thecheaper Chanel, the cheaper bag.
Like no one wants that, right?
I I think the other hiccup wasthat I think some of the the
cost to participate in findingthe specialty stores got really
(28:27):
high for a lot of these up andcomers.
To be honest, behind the curtainis expensive.
Licensing is even that much moreexpensive.
So I do see that a lot ofbrands, big ones, small ones,
emerging ones, you know, next upones, are attempting a D to C.
They don't know where else tostart because it's so expensive.
(28:47):
But it is very expensive to havea D2C business because
operationally the costs arecrazy.
Your team isn't going into salesand researching, it's going into
getting that out the door.
The other piece of it'smarketing.
It's really costly to market.
Licensed teams are not doingthat.
They're certainly not spendingany money that they're making
from the licensed partnership onit.
(29:10):
And then often the brand, theowner of the brand, is marketing
many other things.
So there's a huge disconnect,which is some of the reasons I
think that licensing might have,you know, fallen off a bit,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
How do you think someone could have a successful
license now?
Like, why does someone go intolicensing?
Well, they have enough brand DNAthat they know it can translate
into another classification orcategory.
Why do you not do it in-house?
Because you're calling uponsomeone whose specialty, let's
take handbags, their specialtyis handbags.
That's what they do.
(29:42):
They have the relationships,they have the connections, they
have the resources to take, likeyou said, take that DNA and
translate it.
Licensing is still very much amoneymaker, but you know, the
whole goal of bringing onsomeone else is volume, right?
You want someone to get hundredsof thousands of.
Units sold of your product, notthe tens, not the fives, not
(30:03):
negotiating with the factorylike a smaller brand saying,
what's the smallest MOQ that youcan do for me?
So how do you think, in yourprofessional seasoned opinion,
one could have a successfullicense now with the state of
the market?
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
I would be definitely embracing it now.
I think I don't honestly, Idon't know if I have the answer.
I think what you said makes alot of sense.
I think it's a two-fold thing.
It's not just brand notlistening to what best in class
licensed partner has to say.
I think that a lot of peoplehave maybe lost their confidence
(30:44):
and maybe lost sight of thereality at the end of the day.
Of course it's about makingmoney.
I'd be a fool to say it wasn't.
We wouldn't keep our lights onat the end of the day.
But if we did go back tograssroots a little bit and
really took the license, thepeople who held the licenses,
the manufacturers, the handbagexperts for this conversation,
(31:07):
if we went back to thatphilosophy that did work many
years ago, which was what doesthis said designer stand for?
What's the aesthetic?
What makes it different thaneverything else out there?
How can we put something uniqueout there?
And how can we streamline whichretail partners make sense and
stay aligned with that?
(31:28):
Because so many traditionalretailers have merged.
I mean, obviously, we rememberdays when Federated was lots of
little stores, right?
And all every unfortunately,they're all one big store now.
Maybe if that's the formula andyou have to align with one
partner, you you've chosenMacy's as your benchmark.
Well, Macy's in Arizona is notthe same as Macy's in Florida.
(31:54):
I think what could really kindof mush this back together, and
I know costs are tricky, but Ithink there needs to be a lot of
synergy and work and investmentmade on the regionality of some
of it.
Yep.
I think that we've gotten awayfrom that.
And I think that could, if wedid focus on that, you could
definitely inspire specialtystores because typically they
(32:15):
have one to let's just say 10stores in specific markets.
But if you really picked Macy'sas your choice or Bloomingdale's
as your choice, and you stayedlaser focused on each of their
stores, and it doesn't meancreate different collections,
but really being sensitive, notjust to the A door, the B door,
the smaller assortment.
Oh, now the E door's got theworst assortment.
(32:36):
Why?
The person in that e-storecommunity, if that's what you're
calling it, they have access tosocial media just like everyone
else.
They know it's fabulous, justlike everybody else.
Yeah.
So I think that unfortunately,between everyone trying to get
things as cheap as possible andcheaper than that guy, plus just
losing sight of being unique andsensitive to each regional area,
(32:58):
age is not the thing anymore.
It's just not like whatever,maybe I'm older, but I have a
young sensibility.
I want something that feels cooland fabulous to me, right?
It's not, I think I'm in Vermontnow.
I'm a New York City girl.
I live in Tribeca, right?
But I'm in Vermont now.
Does that mean I all of a suddenwanted to go to their local
family dollar store and get thewhatever tote bag is in there?
(33:19):
Of course not.
I'm still me, regardless ofwhere I am, you know.
So I think if we could stop thesole focus being on tariffs and
let's get this cheaper, how canwe cheapen this bag?
Right.
Coupled with some sensitivity tocarving out the niches and
finding, I love the termuniquely you and making
something special.
(33:40):
You could even probably be verysuccessful with a Macy's or a
Nordstrom or a Bloomingdale's.
Unfortunately, you probably justhave to pick your lane and stay
laser focused on it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
I think that's a really great way for us to wrap
up.
I have this conversation with mystudents just because Urban
Outfitters is the easiest casestudy that's visible.
So, you know, I asked mystudents, who knows urban
outfitters?
Hands go up.
Has anyone looked at theassortment?
(34:11):
Assortment's a word you need tolearn.
Assortment at an urbanoutfitters.
Again, we're in New York City,the assortment on the upper west
side versus the East Village.
Okay, hands go up.
And I'm like, okay, let's talk.
Do they sell the same product?
And then that opens up adialogue.
Actually, no, they can't.
It's a different costumer.
This one has this, this one hasthat.
And then I say, okay, who's notfrom New York?
(34:33):
Yeah, I'm from Virginia.
I'm from here.
I'm like, okay, talk to me whatthey sell at your urban
outfitters.
And it's usually the productthat didn't sell at the other
stores.
So again, like I really thinkwhat you said hit the nail on
the head is regionality.
I think that's a great way forus to really wrap up.
(34:54):
That it's so much more because Italk about this ad nauseum.
Yes, product is key, but unlessyou understand your customers'
ethnography of how they'veevolved, what do they have to
drink, what coffee, what car,what color.
You know, the person in theFlorida area, even in Florida,
(35:16):
the Tampa customer is not thesame as the Miami customer.
So, but they both will probablybe more likely to like a
brighter print, a lighter color.
You know, they'll be more likelyto be bolder in their choices
than a New York customer versusa New Jersey customer because
they're driving to go shop.
So I think going back to thedrawing board and really
(35:38):
understanding what makes yourcustomer tick is probably in it
sounds like in our collectiveopinion, would be the secret to
how licensing could probably getits footing back within at least
within handbags.
But again, I think people havebecome, I don't want to say
lazy, but people have continuedto try and say, let's just keep
the Macy's business.
(35:58):
We'll get it cheaper, what youknow, what this door, that door,
this units, and it's you have tokind of press pause and say, all
right, we need to go back andreally do an analysis on our
customer.
Like I've had um, I had anincubator, I've hosted a few of
them, handbag designerincubators.
And every single time, everytime these customers, these
(36:20):
designers within it alwaysbelieve that their customer,
regardless of price point, isthis fabulous, metropolitan,
beautiful people person.
And then the next point is whenI ask them who is their
customer, I will get the rangeof 15 to 60 or 15 to 65.
And it's really funny because,you know, the 15-year-old is not
(36:43):
buying for herself and the65-year-old's messaging you
because she's looking for anactivity and is excited to
connect and just want someone toacknowledge what she's done.
So, you know, you need to findthat sweet spot, and then you
need to go back and see, okay,we can't hit up nationwide off
Macy's doors.
Like, let's focus on the doorsthat we know where she, he, they
(37:06):
are, and let's go back to thedrawing board.
SPEAKER_00 (37:09):
Do you want to wrap that circle?
I do in an idyllic world, someof that's on the retailer too.
We used to have buyers fordifferent regions, they used to
have different store names underthe umbrella.
Unfortunately, there's so muchon the buying teams now, too.
Yeah, they're no longer comingin and looking at the actual
(37:32):
product often.
Yeah, not that's not everybody,right?
They have too much on theirplate.
Yep.
Right.
So they're not solidation toomuch.
Consolidation, actually, justsaving the dime today lost you
thousands tomorrow because andthat's unfortunately affected
both ends of the spectrum.
SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
Oh my God.
Kathy Schwartz Shino.
How can we find you, follow you,learn more about what you're
doing right now?
How can we learn more?
SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
Learn more.
Well, I launched EditAccordingly.
It is an image consultancy and astyle clinic, really here and
setting out to champion women,helping us all feel seen and
celebrated sometimes from theoasis of our own closets.
I also align with companies tomake sure that their teams
understand the strategy oflooking great on the job and
(38:22):
avoiding the confusion in theworkplace to be more productive.
So you can find me at ateditacordingly on Instagram as
well as at edit accordingly onLinkedIn.
And you can also check out mywebsite.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Okay, and if anybody wants to find you on LinkedIn,
it's Kathy with a C, SchwartzS-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z, and Shino,
spell it for us.
S-I-N-O.
S-C-H-I-N-O.
Okay, it dipped out a littlebit.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for joiningus, Kathy.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
(38:59):
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com