“Have you ever wondered what it takes to create and scale a handbag brand? Quickly? Well, prepare to find out in this fascinating chat with our guest Julie Deane, the brains behind the Cambridge Satchel Company. Julie shares her journey from a humble start, fueled by her mother's support, to making a mark in the world of handbags, focusing on the satchel's practical appeal. Join us to explore her intriguing life, living between Cambridge and the West Coast of Wales, where her garden's quince tree has become a community hub.
The conversation takes a twist as Julie offers insights into the business side of her handbag journey. She opens up about identifying a gap in the market for school satchels and how her mother’s early endorsement of her work-from-home lifestyle paved the way. Listen in as she recounts fascinating tales of convincing a skeptical manufacturer to produce her satchels, and the subsequent rush to find additional manufacturers to meet the demand for her bags.
In the final part of our chat with Julie, we delve into the complexities of scaling a handbag brand. She shares stories of her challenges, ranging from photographing bags for her website to dealing with knockoffs of her designs. Tune in to hear about her ingenious solution for showing the size of her bags using a banana for comparison and the defining moment when the New York Times labeled her bags a 'street style bag'. Julie's story is a testament to the power of determination and entrepreneurship, providing a wealth of inspiration for aspiring designers and entrepreneurs.” This is only Part 1. Stay tuned for the second half of Julie’s journey of what happens next.
Connect with Julie Deane:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cambridgesatchel/
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I was now on 500 bags a week.
It wasn't enough.
We needed to find another one,and I found a very, very
colorful character based inNorfolk, a fantastic man who
sadly passed away about seven oreight years ago, and I said
look, this is the way it works.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is how we are doing business.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
This is how it works and it just means that if one of
you then are short of rivets orthere's a problem, you haven't
got enough thread of aparticular color, you can form a
sort of like a little alliancegoing.
Then you can talk to each otherand you can complain about me
or whatever.
You can do your own thing, andthey got on really well and that
(00:41):
was absolutely fantastic Withthose three.
That is the dream that you findpeople like that.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, emilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(01:12):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, julie Ding of theCambridge Stachel Company,
founder, creator, give birth ortour CBE all the way from Queens
(01:33):
country in the United Kingdom.
Welcome, julie.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Thank you so much for invitingme along.
As I was saying before, youcommented on a post of mine on
LinkedIn and that's just awelcome.
That's an invitation for us tobe best friends forever,
absolutely so.
(01:54):
You had mentioned that someoneis collecting coins from your
garden today.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Absolutely, so I live just outside.
Well, it's Cambridge.
It's one of the little villagesaround Cambridge.
So you, one of the littlevillages around Cambridge.
So, you still stayed there, huh?
I split my time between hereand the west coast of Wales,
which is where I'm fromoriginally.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No accent.
How'd you lose the accent?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh well, I've been in Cambridge for such a long time,
I think, but the minute I goover the bridge it comes back.
So it's a bit of a funny one.
But in Cambridge I have a very,very old house and there's a
quince tree.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
What's a quince for people who don't know?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Quince is.
These fruit look like a crossbetween a pear and an apple, got
it and they are really big.
And they are really big andthey are rock hard and really
heavy and one fell on one of mydog's heads two years ago and
completely stunned him for awhile.
But then they've never reallycaught on as a fruit to eat or
(02:59):
do very much with, except thereis a small group in my village
Facebook gardening group thatlike to come and pick the quince
every year.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Listen, we have a Facebook group in the building I
live, but there's actually two,because the two admins broke up
and they blocked each other, sonow we have two groups.
It's kind of funny, but sad atthe same time.
Do you have to choose?
Do you choose?
No, you have to choose tochoose.
You have to double post.
You have to double post.
It's very time consuming.
I want to ask you something,because there's so much to
(03:32):
unearth here.
Do you get bored of telling astory?
Is it old for you at this point?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
no, no, it isn't for me, because I don't know it.
It's still so vivid.
Even the very beginning in manyways feels like just yesterday.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I get that, I so.
So get that.
Like you know, I know your mom,frida Freda.
Frida Frida was an integralpart of the beginning and it
sounds like she was part of alsominding you, helping you with
your kids.
So had I had that too.
So when I started my handbagline, my mom was driving me back
and forth to JFK to pick up myshipments and I was opening the
(04:11):
boxes with her and only to gether facial expression of do you
really want to do this?
Because this is not good.
So it's the passive aggressiveI'm here to support, but are you
sure this is what we're doing?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, and the things that you know my mom would say
sometimes if somebody came foran interview and I'd maybe
finishing off some call orsomething and I'd look at and if
I saw the journalist speakingto my mother, my heart would
sink.
I'd think, oh my gosh, what isshe saying?
Oh, no, no, this is awful, Ican't remember.
(04:46):
No, we can't.
A magazine came in and theysaid and how, what can you tell
us about your daughter?
What can you say about yourdaughter and my mom?
Of all the things that I wouldhave loved her to have said?
She said she's not stupid.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's it , really.
Yeah, that's it, really, yeah,that's it.
Yep, yep.
She was on payroll with you.
You should have like had an HRchat with her about that.
After, like, here's the do'sand don'ts of what we say, cut
her off at the knee, my gosh,what on earth she's not stupid,
that's it.
(05:22):
Could be my gravestone wasn'tstupid Mama.
Yes, yeah, oh my God.
Well, I think I've read everyinterview you've ever had and,
as I was saying, I believe thereare more people like you.
I would throw me into theconversation, but I never
reached the level of success.
Because you found a hole in themarket and was able to
capitalize on it, and I believeyou know creating something, it
(05:44):
also comes down to timing, rightTiming and hustle.
So you found something at theright place at the right time
and had the hustle and need andtherefore said you know, it's so
interesting when we're put intothese positions because we
really even the most risk aversepeople.
When you're in it, you don'teven see what the downside is
Like.
It's like, okay, this is whatI'm doing, the end.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's all right and this is might be
quite sad, but I honestly lovethe satchel.
It is like my favorite bag ever, because I'm not a tremendously
fussy person, right, not apractical person, and so I don't
want to be messing aroundlooking for goodness knows how
(06:26):
many pockets or zips or you know.
I just can't be doing with it.
And I was astounded when Icouldn't find a traditional
school satchel for my children,because there were all these
bags that had zips that wouldfall apart or weren't well made
or they look really grungy.
And I had my satchel from themoment I started secondary
(06:50):
school, so about you know, 10,11, right up until the end of
university, and it just alwayswas there.
It would stand up and I couldfish things out of it.
It didn't sort of disgorge itscontents all over the floor, it
was just always something Ididn't have to think about.
So with Emily and Max, I justthought of course you're going
(07:11):
to want to have a satchel, andit didn't occur to me for a
minute that I wouldn't be ableto just find one Right, of
course, really easily, becauseit's traditional British school
bag and they were In atraditional British school yes,
very, very traditional, and Iwas really shocked and sort of
(07:31):
horrified when then I couldn'tfind one.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So you know you said a lot of interesting things.
Number one it stood up.
Now we know from the do's anddon'ts of handbags and
merchandising that unless thebag stands it will not be
successful.
Number one.
Number two if you had the samebag standing the test of time,
it was a good, solid cow leather, yeah, and it was a stodgy
(07:54):
color and it had the flap withthe little wheelie buckle,
doodahs, and it could stand thetest of time, much like the
origin of what Coach was thatthey used baseball mitt leather
back then, yeah, and not so muchnow because everything has to
move a lot quicker.
But the fact is I know thatthis was born out of necessity,
for twofold One, you couldn'tfind it, and two, you wanted to
(08:16):
put your kids into public school, which we call private school
here.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yes, that's right, that's right.
Private school here?
Yes, that's right, that's right.
And so if I hadn't had thisneed of oh my gosh, how am I
going to make school fees, howam I going to pay for my
children's education?
If I didn't have that pressing,pressing need, then maybe I
would never have done this.
But it was literally a list ofwhat can I do to make enough
(08:44):
money to make sure my childrenget a good education, because
education is just so important.
You know, it's freedom, it'sbeen so important for me and
that is the gift that I wantedmost of all to give to them.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
My grandmother, who was a Holocaust survivor, always
used to say education is thelightest package you'll ever
have to carry because you know,forced to work at 15.
So it was.
You know, obviously differenttimes and you know you don't
appreciate that obviously whenyou're a child.
But having a couple degreeshere and there you're like, oh
yeah, everybody needs to keeplearning.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So I understand, yeah , from your coming ways of
learning too, because when Ithink of all the things I
learned during the whole processof founding and growing and
running Cambridge Satchel, youknow I had to teach myself so
many things.
Goodness for YouTube, thankgoodness.
Thank goodness you know eventhings like how to use these
(09:41):
machines.
When you put the nylonstrapping around boxes, you know
, with a little metal clamp onthem I could buy the machine,
the gizmo that sort of does andputs the staples on them.
But how do you use the blinkingthing?
Right, you know.
But thank goodness there's ahow to video for just about
everything.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
There is now.
When I started, there wasn'tany videos, so it was like you'd
get a box and you'd be like,well, what the hell am I
supposed to do now?
Yeah, so now you were marriedat the time, I was, yeah, so I
find this interesting and if youdon't want to speak about that,
you know, I totally understand.
But was it a pushback?
And what was the responseinternally Because I know a lot
(10:21):
of people when they startsomething like this of which
they have zero experience and orknowledge an interesting
dialogue internally in terms of,okay, why are you doing this?
Okay, I want to do this to payfor school fees.
Does your child really evenneed to go to this precious
school?
And where are you getting themoney from to start this?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Like, so, obviously you have to do everything
yourself, even within thispartnership, and I think that it
was made a lot easier for mebecause I started Cambridge
Sessure with 600 pounds so about$700, which I had organized a
conference and been paid 600pounds for it and that was it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That was your seed money.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Seed money is, yeah, bigging it up a little bit, but,
yes, it was.
It was a tiny seed, yes, and sothat was, you know, the money
that I had to gamble on this bigdream.
Because, yes, the outcome waslet's get Emily Maggs into a
great school, but then it sortof becomes this huge challenge.
(11:25):
It's golly I can do something.
That is going to be amazing.
What if this worked?
What if?
Because my dad was self-employed, you know, and he had his own
business, and I think that afterI had stopped full-time work to
be at home for a long time withEmily and Mac, and then it was
suddenly this thing of, oh,maybe I don't have to work out
(11:49):
how to get back into atraditional workforce, because
if I try to do this, I can makeit work better around the
children, I can be there forschool holidays, I can do school
drop-offs and pickups and I canbe trying out something amazing
, which means that I get to feellike I'm evolving as well.
(12:10):
Because they were six and eightwhen I started Cambridge
Satchel and I would see, withevery day, they would be
learning things.
They'd be learning very earlyon.
You've got the books.
You're trying to teach them andhelp them learn to read, and
then they're going to school andthey're learning how to do lots
of different things and it'sjust wonderful watching them
(12:33):
learn and grow and become theirlittle people.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Well, you were an early adopter from a work from
home, mom.
Yes, exactly yes, because youwere always working.
Yes, because you were alwaysworking.
Yes, but you were with them.
Yes, so with them.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Exactly.
And then it suddenly starts asthey become that bit more
independent and start enjoyingspending time with people their
own age and doing their own sortof things.
Then suddenly there's thishorror of, you know, being at
home with the children was funwhen it was being at home with
(13:11):
the children, but if thechildren are actually doing
these other things now, I'mstill at home.
What am I going to do?
That's going to keep my mindactive?
That makes me feel that I'm notjust left standing.
To have a sense of purpose,Exactly yeah, and so suddenly,
(13:33):
the prospect of I'm going tostart a business, Well, that's
exciting, that's really exciting.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well, again, it's so fascinating.
So you came up, you saw thishole in the market, not even
realizing that it was perceivedas from even a marketing term a
hole in the market, right, likewhat's missing.
Defining all that?
Because everything you've donefrom a marketing angle was done
right.
You found something that wasneeded.
(14:01):
It satisfied a need and a want.
You couldn't find it.
You started looking around andthen you found this one shop and
you stock them for them toshare their manufacturer and
that is actually in my book.
I speak about that that it'salmost like babysitters, that
when you find a good babysitteryou don't share their name or
(14:21):
information.
So you have to really come upwith something clever to get
people to share who their sourceis, and then you show up at
said source's door saying wehave to figure this out right
now.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah and yes, that shop.
Let me get rid of all of thosethat are things appearing on my
screen.
Yes, and it was this findingsomewhere that somehow had
managed to find real, authenticschool satchels.
Because when I started lookingfor manufacturers a difference
(14:55):
between handmade and artisan,100%, and the minute somebody
describes themselves as artisanI soon discovered that they're
going to be way too expensivefor me to ever use to sell them.
That's not going to happen, yes, and they're never going to be
(15:16):
able to make them in bulk.
I'm never going to be able tosell to all of the
schoolchildren in Britainbecause there's some man in his
artisan shed doing artisanthings and making a bag every
two weeks.
Correct, that would never andthat hadn't occurred to me
(15:37):
before I went on the hunt for amanufacturer.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, it's a learning curve, because you find someone
who can finally make it andthen you go and you get orders
against it and then you realize,oh my God, it will be at least
six months before I get myproduction from said person.
And then you go and bother themand then, because you're
pissing them off, they want nopart.
I'm going to put you at thebottom of the list because
(16:02):
you're really irritating me.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yes, although in my case it worked the other way
around.
I think that I had nagging downto such a fine art Well done
that he was willing to just makeme a batch of these things,
because he was sure, so sure,that you'd throw away, that
there's no market for it.
(16:24):
And it was literally like, if Imake you six of these things,
will you just leave me alone?
Yes, I will, yes, I will.
And it catapulted me to thefront of his queue because he
was so certain that nobodywanted these things because his
factory in the North in the UK,in Hulb, they used to make
(16:56):
satchels back in the 1970s wheneverybody had them, and if you
look at the sort of Narnia filmsand all of those, they were
satchels.
His company used to make thosethen and he said no, nobody
wants them now, they're not ontrend.
I think you're wrong.
I think you're wrong.
And he said look, I'll make youthese six, but you have to just
go away and stop pestering me.
But if this works and I'm right, then I could be your best
(17:16):
customer ever.
And he was so certain that itwasn't going to work.
He said, yes, yes, well, thenyou can come back to me, which
was great because then I couldtalk to him.
Thank goodness.
But yes, he would literally doanything just to make me stop.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, I'm sure we talk about this that when you
come in to speak to amanufacturer, the more green you
are, the less they want to talkto you and the more they'll
charge you.
Right, it's that like you don'tknow what you're doing, extra
cost, you don't understandconstruction or how a bag is,
(17:52):
the anatomy of a handbag, thesilhouettes, all you knew, you
know, like it's a satchel.
And here he saw this mom with abig dream and a bag and it's
like, yeah, I don't know youshould.
Just this is cute, good for you, I think.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I was really, really fortunate that my first
manufacturer was absolute saltof the earth, one of the most
amazing men ever, you know, andI kept in touch right the way
along and he came to shopopenings and everything, and
just the most honest must havekept him in business.
(18:24):
Honest, I put so much his waythat he couldn't keep up.
And then I had to find a secondand then a third and it sort of
went that way and those firstthree manufacturers were the
most decent, honest men that youcould ever come across.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Was he insulted that you had to go get another, or he
knew you needed to?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
No, because I said to him look, can you please?
Just I need way, way more, way,way more, because he could make
up to 250 bags a week and inthe beginning I thought that
would be more than anybody wouldever need.
I would never need more than250 a week.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I'm excited to share my new book with you.
Welcome to Savvy Susanna'sAmazing Adventures in Handbags
and the Start of Susanna'sTriumphant Journey to Become a
Young Handbag Designer.
Filled with ingenuity, fun anda hint of steam.
Susanna will inspire childrenand you everywhere to follow
their dreams and put in the hardwork to get there.
Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, barnes, noble or
(19:29):
wherever you get your books.
Thanks for your support.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And then it was growing and I really needed, you
know, a lot more than that.
And so I said look, can youplease just take on more people?
And there was a point at whichI think, because of labor laws
and the way that the factoriesare set up in the UK, there's a
point at which you decide you'reeither stepping up it is a big
(19:55):
step up, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You decide you're eitherstepping up.
It is a big step up, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And for each of the three firstmanufacturers it always
happened around the 200 to 250bags a week.
That was the limit.
After that, they needed aspecial first aid person and
they needed a special Insuranceand overhead and Everything
changed.
And so I tried to get him totake on more people and to
(20:18):
expand and to grow.
But he was very, very honestand just said look at my stage
in life, I've seen stressfultimes.
I don't want to expand thefactory.
So it was like, well, okay, ifI always give you enough to keep
you entirely busy, would youmind then if the excess I take
(20:41):
to somebody else?
And so he said no, no, and hehelped me find another person to
take the next layer.
That's amazing, yeah, and thenthey spoke to each other often
to make sure that things likethe rivets were always the same,
how lucky spoke to them withpeople, and it was always I have
(21:15):
to do the right thing by Alec,because he was the first one he
started, so he gets the first250.
After that.
This is what I need.
And then it happened again thatI was now on 500 bags a week.
It wasn't enough.
We needed to find another one,and I found a very, very
(21:35):
colorful character based inNorfolk, a fantastic man who
sadly passed away about seven oreight years ago, and I said
look, this is the way it works.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
This is how we are doing business.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
This is how it works, you know, and it just means
that if one of you then areshort of rivets or there's a
problem, you haven't got enoughthread of a particular color,
you can form a sort of like a-Alliance Little alliance going
there and you can talk to eachother and you can complain about
me or whatever.
You can do your own thing, andthey got on really well and that
(22:09):
was absolutely fantastic Withthose three.
That is the dream that you findpeople like that three.
That is the dream that you findpeople like that, amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
But I only now, looking back on it, realize how
lucky I was to find and that'syeah, that's touched by, touched
by something.
I have a couple questions.
So one how did you go aboutselling?
Were you selling from yourkitchen?
Were you going to mom's door todoor?
Were you doing school fairs?
Or were you like, okay, I'mgoing to start going to local
boutiques?
And how, within this journey,because we have more to cover,
(22:47):
did you say the production muststay in England?
How did you?
Let's tackle the first one.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So for me, it was always important that production
stayed in the UK.
In Britain it wasn't in Englandbecause I had two manufacturers
in England and one in Scotland,but it was all British and that
made it easy for me because Icould you could patrol it, I
could phone them up without atime difference, we all spoke
the same language and if thingsreally came to a crunch point, I
(23:17):
could always get in my car anddrive and be there that same day
or the next morning.
It made things very, verysimple for me, I think, and also
just things like when I waspaying them.
We're all being paid in pounds.
There was no currency issues,there were no customs
declarations.
That was all very easy.
The selling I had read a bookGuerrilla Marketing.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I have it up here, oh God.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
But it's great, I liked it.
And in there it sort of saidyou have to do your marketing in
different ways.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Ambient media, guerrilla marketing.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, you really have to different ways.
And so I thought, oh, I've gotto sort of approach that I'd
made these funny little flyersout of wood and then you know,
you get the guillotine.
And so that did all of theseflyers myself.
And then I found loads of freedirectories because I needed to
be mentioned in lots of placesbecause otherwise, you know,
(24:17):
google doesn't see you.
So this is a vintage SEO.
Vintage, vintage, seo.
Yeah, yes, absolutely, and thenyou never link outside.
So it's like a cul-de-sac, youknow.
You just always try to getsomebody to mention you or
listed on anything, but younever link out Right.
To mention you or listed onanything, but you never link out
Right, because virtuallyeverybody's website was better
(24:39):
than mine, so I didn't wantanybody leaving my website.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right, I remember the vintage Cambridge Satchel
Company's website because I keptnotes.
My template to my book was,like me, I was teaching a class
on how to launch a handbag linewhen you're not trained in
design prior to me even having areal business.
Because they found me talkingabout it and some you know one
(25:04):
of those organizations that havelike learn how to make a
handbag line.
I mean I was in the samebooklet.
It was called the LearningAnnex, and they'd have those
bins on the street that youcould get outside.
You know your pharmacies and soforth.
I mean I was in one on the samecover as Donald Trump where it
was learn how to sell realestate.
I mean, that's how old schoolwe're going and they would take
(25:26):
the handbag designer flavor ofthe week.
But because I was keeping notes, I had a syllabus, I had
resources, I had recommendations, I had designers to follow and
you were one of them.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
My very first website .
When you have £600 as your seedfund, you don't really have
much of that to spend on a webdesigner, right, you know?
And this was 2008.
Yeah, and so I thought I'm justgoing to have to teach myself.
How hard can it be?
(25:59):
You know, this is the same asthat usually comes before some
disaster, but how hard can it be?
And so I took a free Microsoftcourse, free online course, over
a couple of nights and thencame up with this website.
That was the very first one, ohmy God.
And it was just sort of PayPaland you'd have to highlight all
(26:22):
of the code for a button andthen you'd embed the code and
each color was its own SKU.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And then you've got the button, but the button
somehow don't want to align onthe website.
Yeah, so that kind of thing,and so, yeah, I went through all
of that.
But when you do go through allof that, you have such an
understanding of your business,of every part of your business.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, it's so interesting because most people
now are so quick to outsource Ineed a salesperson, I need a
publicist, I need a designer.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
You have to learn how to makeeverything from start to finish.
Even if you do it poorly, youneed to know.
So when you hire people, youknow what they're doing wrong,
(27:09):
even from a salesperson, andyou're like oh well, did you hit
up these stores?
No, why not I go in them, I'mstill doing it.
Did you reach out to theseeditors?
No, well, I know they coverstories about female founders,
handbag collared bags, like, whyaren't you so?
And then you end up doing allthat heavy lifting yourself
(27:30):
anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, exactly, and when you have people join you,
it's very different.
You know they're on their owncareer path, right?
Whereas for me, this was justsomething I absolutely lived and
breathed and loved and thoughtabout constantly.
I wasn't thinking how long do Ineed to stay here before moving
(27:51):
to my next bigger job?
Yeah, and then moving to.
So I wasn't out to make a namefor myself in web design, I was
just out to sell these bags, youknow, and it was like, okay,
this seems to be working.
I'll sort of move on and try tolook at something else.
But that is the thing, when youlearn to do every aspect of it
yourself.
I remember, you know, becausethe bags, I wanted people's
(28:13):
initials on the bags, becausethere's small little card holder
at the front.
Children sometimes used to puttheir names in the card holder
at the front, and then I think,as a mom, I don't want my
children's names to be on thebag.
That's visible from.
You know what if some creepyperson says, oh, hello, emily,
(28:34):
because they can read it on thefront of their bag?
Don't need that, but I want away to tell the bags apart.
Let's have initials embossed onthem.
That would be nice.
And the first embossing machine, oh God, with a grant.
And the person came over fromGermany, it was a German machine
.
He didn't speak very goodEnglish, which is very unusual
(28:58):
because you know, for Germans,forget it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
They are people who speak English.
They're very organized.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Just about anybody in their first state he didn't
speak English.
I speak no German, and so itwas all done through sort of
like here you do this, do that,you do this, and then you go no,
no, no, it's all 999 orsomething like that.
No, no, no, let's try somethingelse.
And then we'd all sit and havea biscuit and try again.
You know, that's how I learnedto do embossing from him, and I
(29:28):
embossed all of the bagsPersonally.
Yes, yeah.
For a long time, and even afterthe New York Fashion Week times
and the Google times, when wewould have a flood in at
Christmas time, I never feltable to ask anybody to work
between sort of 10 pm and 3 amembossing bags.
(29:52):
Right, so that was my slot, Iwould do that, and I would
emboss between 10 and 3.
So when people came in to pack,they'd have a load ready, Were
you out of your home by thispoint.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
That was yes.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
That was when we were in the first premises, and to
anybody starting out I would saythe less you tie yourself into
long-term things, the better.
Yeah, so my first premises waslike I had to give a month's
notice.
If things went badly, I wouldgive a month's notice.
(30:27):
And so I knew, oh, that's theworst that can happen.
You know, that is what it wouldcost me if I had to.
Suddenly I'd lose a month'srent, right Exactly, whereas
often it can be a six month oryears sort of yeah, you'll eat
that money and lose it Exactly.
Yeah, and the more you can avoidthose kinds of things, I think,
(30:53):
the more creative you're stillallowing yourself to be, because
the less scared you are of whatyou have to meet.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
How did you handle sales?
I mean, the fascinating thingabout your brand is that all the
silhouettes they were notcousins, they were siblings of
the same parents and typicallywhen people develop it's like
you could tell they're allrelated because there's a story.
But yours were like straight upsame DNA.
(31:21):
You know the brothers and thesisters were mating and giving
birth to the same child, so Iknow it's a different color.
So how did you handle sales?
Because I'm sure there wereplenty of people in your ear
saying you should do this andyou should do that, and you're
like no, no, we're keeping thesame bag, that's it.
We can make it bigger, we canmake it smaller, we could change
the strap shorter, we can makeit longer.
(31:42):
So how did you handle door todoor and D to C, as it's called
now?
But you were selling online,because back then retailers were
a little offended if you soldmore on your website, whereas
now they want to make sure youcan sell on your website before
they even pick you up.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, and I think that well, first of all, because
the bags the only thingdefining the different bags was
the size of the bag.
That was a real issue when itcame to taking the photographs
for the website.
Oh my God, yeah, of course.
I mean, I'm sure that we've allbought something online and
(32:19):
then, when it comes, you thinkwhat is?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
that it's so small.
Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You've bought something of like.
I bought this thing of thisweird.
It's a bit like a meat flavoredyeast paste.
Bovril that British peopleeither.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It wasn't, was it like a sack?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And it was just sort of like the size of a motorbike
helmet.
I was expecting it to besomething different on the south
, but it would be small.
I had like a year's supply.
I had the industrial sizebecause I can't tell on the
screen and that was an issuethat I really faced.
With the satchels, they alllook exactly the same.
(32:58):
So in a way that at the timeseemed perfectly like the
commonsensical approach, Ithought the answer to this is
obvious.
With every bag I'm going totake it photograph next to a
banana, because everybody knowsthe size of a banana and they
can see how much bigger thesebags are compared to this banana
(33:22):
.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I did not know you had a banana measurement.
That's amazing.
Well, I thought it was.
I never saw that in any of yourinterviews.
This is amazing.
I'm glad I got a nugget that noone else did.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, and it seemed like such an obvious workaround.
I look back on it now and Ithink actually it's probably a
bit insane, you know, but I'mgoing to have a banana because
that's how people can tell thedifference in sizes.
My god, and it's just the.
(33:54):
The things then, like the strapsizes.
I know now you're supposed tobe so careful about how you
refer to people and all thiskind of thing, but it was sort
of like there are two strapsizes there's one if you're five
foot six or less.
There's one if you're five footsix or less.
There's one if you're five footsix and a bit and more.
(34:18):
That's it.
You know it's long and short,that's it.
That's all it is.
Yeah, it just seemed a loteasier than when Cambridge
Satchel grew and we had all thethings that a proper handbag
brand has.
You know, you've got themerchandisers and the e-com team
and all this kind of thing, andthen suddenly it's like things
(34:38):
become so much more complicated.
Is it frustrating for you tosee?
Yes, massively frustrating Tohave skew codes that I couldn't
understand.
I couldn't look at andunderstand, because for the
first five years it was all youunderstand because for the first
five years it was all you, Ijust had a code.
(35:01):
It was one, two, three like 11.
If it was an 11 inch bag and itwas red and it had a shoulder
strap not backpack straps, itwould be 11RS, right, that's it
Right.
You'd look at the code, you'dthink, yes, 11 inch, red and a
shoulder strap, and it was soeasy.
And then in later, right, you'dlook at the code, you'd think,
yes, 11-inch, red and a shoulderstrap, and it was so easy.
And then in later years,there'd be things like, oh no,
(35:22):
well, we can't sell thisstraight away because we haven't
generated a SKU code.
And you think, how can this be?
You know what color is it, whatsize is it?
Backpack straps or shoulderstraps?
And it is frustrating when acompany scales and complexity
just really, really takes over.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I mean, you had the gift and the curse of you came
up with something.
People wanted it, lots and lotsof people wanted it and then,
before you knew it you weredealing with, one of your
factories started sellingknockoffs, right, if I'm not
mistaken.
Well, you're correct.
So you had to chase after them,which is every brand's fear.
But I always pad that with noone's knocking you off unless
(36:07):
you're successful.
So don't lose any sleep ontrying to tell a factory not to
knock you off, because you needtheir help at the same time,
whereas I had a very different.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
The one that was doing the knockoffs was the one
that was doing the volumeproduction, and you needed that.
I really needed that, becauseit was the New York Times had
called us the street style theit bag, the it bag, right the it
bag, and instantly I had 16,000bags on back order.
(36:42):
From what?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
From the website.
No, but like how many were youproducing before?
At a comfortable level?
Like, how did that moment giveyou you could manage production?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
prior to that piece.
Yes, I could to manage itbecause I had my three
manufacturers making between 200and 250 bags a week, so you had
about 2,000 bags coming out.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
This New York Times thing hits and all of a sudden
you have your tipping pointmoment.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
So you had to run and find a new factory quickly,
exactly yes, a big factory thatcould really cope with volume
while still keeping my threeoriginal manufacturers happy and
busy and completely at capacity.
And so even doing that wasquite a bit more juggling than I
(37:30):
ever anticipated, right?
But then finding out that thenew ones, the ones at scale
within three months, were taking, I mean, a lot of the leather
that I was buying I was buyingthe raw materials and knocking
off the bags because they knewthat there was this huge delay
(37:52):
and backlog and people wantedthem and and whatever and I was
making at the time.
The hardest thing really atthat time was I was also in my
third Paris Fashion Week forComme des Garcons, so I was
making bags for Comme and theywere being made at this new
(38:12):
place.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Were you designing them as well?
You were private labelinghandbags for them, or it was a
collaboration?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
No, it was a collaboration.
I know that I can never workwith somebody I don't trust, and
this is the definition of Didyou know, going in, that you
didn't get the good feeling, butyou had no choice.
No, I had the good feeling, andthat's what is so awful.
That is what is so awful.
(38:38):
I had no clue of what they wereplanning or plotting or doing.
It was one of their employeesthat phoned me and told you yes.
And told me they said oh, areyou the lady with the boxer dog
that comes to the factory?
Yes, I am.
Oh, I can't sleep at nightbecause this is what's happening
(39:01):
.
You know, we're making copiesof the bags.
They've got a different name onthem.
They're being hid in a lockupacross the road.
I had no idea.
And the other one, who was very, very canny she's so sharp was
Sasha Sasha canny, she's sosharp with sasha sasha wilkins.
Fantastic, she was blogging atthat time.
Liberty london girl.
I remember that, yeah, and shehad sent me a note and said oh,
(39:24):
you sent me bags in the pastthat I've really loved.
You've changed your name.
I said, no, I haven't changedmy name.
Wow, and they had sent her abag, and so it was between
between While they were movingfast.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
If they were sending to influencers, they came to
play.
That wasn't like let's justmake some money on the side.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
No, no, no, this was really from, I think day one.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
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Speaker 1 (41:23):
You know, then, when I had the phone call from
someone that actually worked atthat factory, I thought it's not
someone copying my designs onmy bags, it's actually my
manufacturer.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Just out of curiosity , because I mean one of my
licensing deals went, as yourpeople call, tits up.
I mean it was just horrendousthat I got locked out of my own
brand while I was still workingwith them for them.
They still legally had therights and I had to fight for
the rights to get back.
And I was newly married and Iknew the toll that it took on my
(41:58):
relationship.
Because here I am, I definemyself as this brand, this is my
livelihood, this is all I knowat this point.
Whatever I knew is out thewindow.
Now I have a partner, slashroommate who's seeing me lose my
mind.
I mean it takes its toll, likeall of this, because I'm sure at
this point you were makingconsiderable monies.
It's hard for people to see yougo through all this, like how
(42:22):
can someone support you whileyou're like I don't even know
how to navigate this?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I think I kept them.
I was trying to manage all theemails coming in from the
customers who were waiting fortheir bags 16,000 of them
yourself, I understand.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I totally000 of them yourself, I understand.
I, totally, totally, totally.
I didn't know for years, years.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
And it was, I remember, using and discovering
TextExpander, you know where.
If you put in a compilation,then all of a sudden you know
it'll insert a paragraph, and Istill have that on my phone.
Sometimes, if I put somethingin and I've mistyped, and so
there's this weird combinationof characters, it'll suddenly
(43:03):
expand it to.
Thank you so much for placingyour order with the.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Cambridge.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Bachelor of Arts.
It's a paragraph and I'll think, oh my gosh, that takes me back
, because when you're so deep inthe trenches, you think that
you should be able to keep upwith answering all these emails.
Yes, and you're failing, that.
You're not somehow able to?
Yes, I had this program then,because I can speak a lot faster
(43:29):
than I can type, yeah.
And so I had this one where Icould text to get these things
done, and I was thinking this iswrong.
I should be able to get back toall these people.
I was getting like 2000 emailsa day.
Of course I wouldn't be able toget back and set up a factory,
you know, and do all thesethings, because I decided I knew
(43:51):
that I could not.
The minute I found out what hewas doing, I would not work with
him anymore and I pulled allthe leather out of there, even
though I still had this enormousbacklog.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
As a result, were you able to kill his knockoff
business, or he continuedBecause he didn't want to use
any of his own supplies, I'msure.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, and he continued and I thought I think
it's really important, whenthings are going very badly, to
identify what's going to get youout of the hole, what is going
to get you out of that.
And so at that point it's notabout worrying what he's doing
or anger towards him or gettingeven with him or suing him, or
(44:35):
that's not actually going tohelp, it's not going to fix your
situation.
The only thing that will fix itis either getting another
manufacturer up and runningreally quickly, which would be
very difficult, or starting afactory yourself.
I just remember that momentwhen I went down to face him to
(44:58):
tell him I knew what he wasdoing and it was scary.
It was a really scary moment.
Do you remember the drive up?
Oh, I remember it so well.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I felt sick Like the pit in your stomach.
Yeah, so sick.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I had one of the leather tanneries giant lorries
following because they collectthe leather Right but I didn't
know where it was going to go.
And I was going there and therewas someone I didn't have that
many employees at the time andthere was this really young girl
(45:33):
that was working for me and shewas great and she was sitting
at the side and she was sayingoh, I'm looking at Twitter
because it was all about Twitterback then.
Right, right, right, right,right.
I'm looking at Twitter andthey're saying oh, we're so busy
with this brand, this knockoffbrand.
He was doing oh, we're so happy, we're so busy, keep your
orders coming in, all this kindof thing.
And I pulled up outside thefactory when I went in.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
I just Did he not know you were coming.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
No, he didn't know I was coming.
And I talked to him and I saidI know what you're doing, you
know, I know what's happeninghere.
And he just said yes, but youneed manufacturing and you're a
stupid woman, know nothing aboutmanufacturing.
So you've got to suck it up.
And I just thought I snappedand so I just thought well, at
(46:20):
that point I said no, I ampulling out the leather, I'm not
going to give you another order.
And he said well, you'll beback, you've got no choice and
stormed out.
And I looked around and Ithought you know, if you can do
that to your best customerbecause I was easily his biggest
customer, easily easily hisbiggest and best customer what
(46:40):
kind of person does that andwhat do they like to work for?
And so in a real sort of out ofbody moment, I remember I
almost feel like I could seemyself just suddenly announcing
very calmly well, I'm reallysorry, but there are no more
satchels for you to make.
I have thousands and thousands.
(47:02):
At this point it was closer to20,000 on back of order.
But if you want to work for meat my factory, I would love to
have you.
And I thought who is thisperson?
What factory would that be?
Have you?
And I thought who is thisperson?
What factory would that be?
Which one are you speaking to?
And I ended up taking all buttwo of his employees.
(47:25):
But I really vividly rememberdriving back to Cambridge after
that.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Who was driving the truck?
You?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
No, the man with the leather.
I said take it back to thetannery.
I'll phone you with a locationin the morning.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Just keep driving aimlessly.
Go to a Tesla, take it back tothe tannery who went in the back
to collect everything.
Did you like physically removeeverything?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
No, the guys from the tannery.
They knew, because I said tothem we're going down, you
supply me with all this leatherand you unload it there.
So I need you to load itBecause I pay for it.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
It's my leather.
I need it Right right right.
Was your tannery in the UK?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yes, Some of it was in the UK and some of it then
was from a guy who had some fromItaly and from Spain, but he
had a sort of like that.
You know, there was a placewhere it all came in and it was
stored.
I drew from that.
So you know, thank goodness.
But I remember driving back toCambridge and thinking I think
(48:37):
it was shock, really, because itwas very, very calm.
I'm thinking, oh, what have Ijust done?
I'll be time to pick Emily andMax up from school.
Perfect, as you do, I'll makethem their dinner.
Yeah, yeah, I'll make themtheir dinner.
Yeah, I'll make the tea, andthen we can do homework Once
they've gone to bed.
I'll figure this out.
(48:58):
I'll go on right move, becauseI'm not sure what you need for a
factory, but I'm pretty surethe first thing you need is a
building, Wait.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
So I want to talk a little bit about you sold a
percentage or gave up apercentage.
Was it majority, minority?
And what happened to your localfactory that you then created?
How did all that evolve fromthere?
Because then now you're reallyback in control, but I'm
assuming it became way too much,for you know, just Julie, come
(49:30):
a mom, come OBE, pre OBE, preCBE, just still MUM.
I'm sure people by this pointyou were making so much money or
getting enough attention thatpeople were then approaching you
and you were like no, no, no,no no, no, so many.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
And it would always be these approaches like oh,
would you like to go for lunchand tell me your plans for the
future?
And I think, no, I don't wantto go for lunch, I'm trying to
set up a factory.
What are you talking about?
Go for lunch?
I don't even know you Right,exactly.
And so it was very much onestep at a time, because I soon
(50:06):
realized that I was going tohave to use the money that the
people had paid for their bags,that I couldn't make to set up
the factory.
That's terrifying, that's scary.
That's scary If you've neverreally been in manufacturing.
This wasn't the time for me tothink oh, I know, I'm going to
(50:28):
get a property agent to locate agood factory with.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
You were like screw this, I need a building.
Yesterday Exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
I thought, yeah, I need to employ the people that
currently work for that horrible.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (50:42):
able to pull those people.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I left my phone number and just started a job
with a nice person and thenphoned me.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
That's amazing.
That's savage, that's verysavage.
It didn't feel savage at thetime.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
It's amazing, necessary.
And all of those people youknow they knew what machine they
because I had always beendecent and honest and
transparent with my first threemanufacturers.
They were fantastic.
At that stage they were sayingthese are the sewing machines
that you need.
(51:17):
You need two types of sewingmachines, you need a flatbed,
you need a post.
This is where we get them from.
And I was thinking I can't buythese machines.
But it turns out it's just abit like musical instruments.
If your children are learningmusical instruments, you can
hire them and then buy themafter you walk off your I'm sure
there are plenty of rentalplaces that have like industrial
(51:39):
machines just lying around.
I still remember.
You know the flatbed machinewas £23.40 a week.
You know all of these sort ofthings that like the devil's in
the detail.
Yes, there's no detail.
I don't know about thisbusiness.
So you know it was anincredible time.
But from having no factory andno premises to the first bag
(52:03):
being produced was just overfour weeks.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Did you move your office to that factory?
No, now.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
No, because I live near the children's school.
I live in Cambridge, and thehorrible manufacturer was down
near Leicester, and so I had tosearch for premises within a
sort of like three mile radiusof his factory, because I needed
people.
If they could get to him towork, they could get to me to
work.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Wow, wow, that's like okay they could get to me to
work, right.
So, wow, wow, that's like okay,I guess we're doing this next.
So at this point, because, like, honestly, we could talk all
day If this is like my handbagcrack, I'm living for this.
You don't even know thesequince ladies who are coming
Can't hold the candles?
This chat Forget that, oh myGod.
(52:50):
So can't hold the candles?
This chat.
Forget that, oh my God.
So people started to approachyou to get a piece of this.
How did you navigate that?
Because then that got too messyand then you had to drive again
.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Basically, yeah, so I had met some people from BDO,
one of the sort of bigaccounting audit tax firms.
I'd met them at somethingbecause I'd, by that stage, had
one entrepreneur of the year forthe whole of Europe.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I remember that, yeah .
Speaker 1 (53:22):
So there was some celebratory thing and I met
somebody from BDO that I thought, oh, you seem nice.
And I called them and said,look, I'm getting all these
approaches.
I don't know these people, Idon't know these funds.
This is the kind of job that Idon't want to take on.
So I want you to help me.
Just come, bring it down to ashort list of like Vet them for
(53:47):
me yeah, the best five who youthink are a good fit, and then
I'll meet with those five andthen decide.
It was all done very much froma gut sort of feel.
There was one very, very goodfund that has backed some great
places, but I remember visitingtheir offices and it was so
messy I couldn't bear it.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
So I just can't do this.
You know my son, when he was infirst grade or second grade,
there was a little girl wholiked him and he went over to
her house for a play date.
And he came home and he's like,I just want you to know, I will
never marry her.
And I said okay, because shehad informed them they were
married and you know as littlekids do.
(54:29):
And I said, all right, run methrough.
What's the situation?
What are the new benchmarks?
And he said her home was somessy.
Yes, she didn't clean herplates.
Food fell on the floor.
No one was scolded, no onetidied it up.
He's like, who lives like that?
And he was seven.
So you know, you got to go withlike this is how I run my home.
(54:49):
This is how homes need to berun.
Anyone that I'm going to bepart of you?
Speaker 1 (54:53):
know, I just thought this is going to be a true
partnership with these people.
I can't dread going to theirhouse, you know, to their office
in London.
I can't dread it.
I can't think, oh my gosh, sortyourself out.
This isn't getting to get downto form, you know, and it was an
interesting process and, again,another incredible learning
(55:15):
experience.
And I look back on it now and Ithink I did choose the right
partner For that time.
Yes, for that time I choseIndex Ventures and they are
amazing, super smart, very, onit, incredible.
I really, really like them andI really respect them.
(55:36):
But I didn't manage the processafter the investment in a good
way.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
But you didn't know how.
No, I didn't know how.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
I didn't know how and I let it dent my sort of
confidence in my own ability.
I thought I can found something.
I don't know how to scale.
These people know how to scale.
And so the fact that suddenlythere was money in the business
whereas before there wasn't, itstarted off with 600 pounds and
(56:08):
then it was like virtuallyeverything going towards the
school fees off with 600 pounds,and then it was like virtually
everything going towards theschool fees, and then it was
having to set up a factory.
You know, without realizing orever thinking, I was going to
set up a factory and so therewas never this kind of like
feeling of look at us, we'rewell off.
Suddenly there was, and thenthere was the big hires that
come in at that point and Ilooked at those people and
(56:30):
thought they know what they'redoing, they've done this before.
I should defer to that and Ishouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
You know what?
That is something that has tobe learned, that cannot be
taught, because I've outsourcedenough people whom come in and
you just assume they're expertsas a result of their work
experience, their title, theirCV, their resume.
And then they come in andyou're like, oh my God, I still
(56:59):
know more than you, I still needto get involved.
And then by that point you feellike gosh, I've missed my
window to start telling you whatto do, so now I can't tell you
what to do, because now I don'twant to ruffle and mess the
whole system up that you put inplace to theoretically help me.
It turns into a whole cycle oflike you see things crumbling
and I think, also as women Ithink by nature we are, you know
(57:23):
, obviously those who are toodifficult, then they're pain in
the ass, those who aren't aretoo meek, but you hired people
that you authorized to come inand do this, so you don't want
to be the one to break it,because then they'll come back
on you.
So then you're like in this,should I, shouldn't I?
And then, if I do, I'm going tostep away and hopefully they'll
take my feedback, and then theydon't, and then it just turns
into this hot mess of handbagstoo, you know, and things used
(57:47):
to be so easy.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
Yeah, you know, my mom and I would pick a new color
from a paint chart from a homesupply place.
Right, look at that beautifulcolor.
We can do that.
Send it to the tannery, theycould match it.
Yeah, these new bags would comein in that color.
My mother would stand outsidein the garden with a sheet.
I would take a photo of the bag.
I would then just use myPixelmator, because it's cheaper
(58:14):
than Photoshop, to edit thephoto.
It would be up.
It would be up and for salewithin 10 minutes of that bag
arriving.
And suddenly these things weretaking months and product
development.
What's your inspiration?
What do you mean?
What's my inspiration?
It's a nice color and it justfeels right.
You know it's not.
(58:35):
Oh, my inspiration this time iswalking through the spice
market of Marrakesh.
No, this feels like a reallygreat color for now.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
That's my inspiration .
Yeah, because I know it willsell and I know you will like it
.
That is my inspiration.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
I know my community and these are the colors they
love.
They love bold post-paintcolors.
Yeah, they don't want to seethese washed out drab, muted
shape.
No, because other people can dothat.
Some people love that and theycan buy from the other place,
but we do bold vibrant energy.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
You got to know your community, you got to know and
you got to stand by.
You know, I am so appreciativeof this whole learning curve
that you're so generouslysharing with us, because all of
this information you come inassuming you're supposed to do
it this way we need the black,we need the brown, we need the
oxblood, we need this, but yourcommunity really might not want
(59:38):
that.
So stand true to that, becauseyou know what they'll buy and I
hope by that point that you knowone has done enough ethnography
and so forth of I know whatthey eat, I know what they sleep
, I know where they go out todinner, I know what goes in
their bag.
As a result of me knowing whothey are, I know what car they
drive.
I know how to design into theirlifestyle and the colors they
(59:59):
need that will make them happyenough to come back and buy
another.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Vibrant and the shops would look so vibrant.
And then suddenly there's likewhat's the neutral in this
collection?
I don't know.
There's like, what's theneutral in this collection?
I don't know, because it's notsomething I would ever wear.
Right, you've got a dark brownsatchel there.
Isn't that neutral enough foranybody.
No, we should have like a cream.
That's not practical.
What a cream.
(01:00:24):
You know, I'd never have acream because it's gonna get
dirty, dirty, dirty Clean.
Nobody's going to want asatchel to wear to a wedding.
Yeah, you know, so we don'thave to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Oh my God, Julie, I'm taking so much of your time.
I would love to you know, let'sdo a part two.
Let's do a part two.
I think we're going to have tobecause, honestly, like Because
the quince collectors are goingto be baying at the gate.
I know, ok, julie, this is partone, let's do a part two,
(01:01:01):
because there are very fewpeople I can talk to and have
this kind of rapport where,going through all this, who've
sold their company, have takenownership back, have sold it
again and then can enjoy meetingwith the local quince ladies.
So this is part one, julie,talk to me, how can people find
follow you or at least learnmore in the short term, because
we're absolutely doing a parttwo.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Oh yes, we must do a part two.
So I am at the moment on a bitof a break, a bit of a break
where I am doing up an old house, but I'm thinking that maybe
that process is something peoplewould like to follow along with
, because it's sort of oneprocess, I think so.
(01:01:42):
So maybe I should just getactive again on Instagram and
start sharing this never dulljourney that I have embarked on
and sort of continue to embarkon.
So I think that that's probablythe best way is just through my
(01:02:03):
Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
And what is your Instagram?
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
It's just Julie Dean CBE.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
And it's Julie J-U-L-I-E, d-e-a-n-e, cbe,
correct?
Let me have a look on this andjust quietly, what does CBE
stand for and who gave it to?
You Just want to throw that in.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
So a CBE is a great honor.
It's actually a medal.
I have a medal.
Well done, yes, and he was thenPrince Charles, who is now the
king, gave me my OBE, which isOfficer of the Order of the
British Empire, and I got bumpedup to CBE a couple of years ago
(01:02:47):
and that is Commander of theOrder.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
And the Queen gave that to you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Queen gave that to me just before she passed away
correct?
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Look at you.
With getting all this stuff, Iwould keep that stuff in the
background.
Hang a medal, julie.
Hang a medal.
Come on, it's in the drawerupstairs.
I mean, I know you're Britishand nobody likes to show off and
it's very antitheticalculturally, but you know, not
everybody here is.
Let the quince lady see it.
I would wear it on a Tuesday.
Maybe I'll wear it when we dopart two.
(01:03:17):
I'm here for that.
Listen.
This is part one, julie Dean ofthe Cambridge Satchel Company.
Thank you so much for today andmaybe by part two.
Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
I'll even have worked out exactly what my Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
But you are available on LinkedIn, correct I?
Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
am.
I am on LinkedIn, and that isJulieDeanCB, and Instagram is
the fun one, and that's the onethat I want to start sharing all
my crazy adventures while Ifind my next project, next
chapter Fabulous.
Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Thank you so much for being part of Handbag Designer
101.
We will be here for part two.
Thank you, thanks, bye.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
I was now on 500 bags a week.
It wasn't enough.
We needed to find another one,and I found a very, very
colorful character based inNorfolk, a fantastic man who
sadly passed away about seven oreight years ago, and I said
look, this is the way it works.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is how we are doing business.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
This is how it works and it just means that if one of
you then are short of rivets orthere's a problem, you haven't
got enough thread of aparticular color, you can form a
sort of like a little alliancegoing.
Then you can talk to each otherand you can complain about me
or whatever.
You can do your own thing, andthey got on really well and that
(00:41):
was absolutely fantastic Withthose three.
That is the dream that you findpeople like that.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast with your host, emilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(01:12):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, julie Ding of theCambridge Stachel Company,
founder, creator, give birth ortour CBE all the way from Queens
(01:33):
country in the United Kingdom.
Welcome, julie.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Thank you so much for invitingme along.
As I was saying before, youcommented on a post of mine on
LinkedIn and that's just awelcome.
That's an invitation for us tobe best friends forever,
absolutely so.
(01:54):
You had mentioned that someoneis collecting coins from your
garden today.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Absolutely, so I live just outside.
Well, it's Cambridge.
It's one of the little villagesaround Cambridge.
So you, one of the littlevillages around Cambridge.
So, you still stayed there, huh?
I split my time between hereand the west coast of Wales,
which is where I'm fromoriginally.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No accent.
How'd you lose the accent?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh well, I've been in Cambridge for such a long time,
I think, but the minute I goover the bridge it comes back.
So it's a bit of a funny one.
But in Cambridge I have a very,very old house and there's a
quince tree.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
What's a quince for people who don't know?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Quince is.
These fruit look like a crossbetween a pear and an apple, got
it and they are really big.
And they are really big andthey are rock hard and really
heavy and one fell on one of mydog's heads two years ago and
completely stunned him for awhile.
But then they've never reallycaught on as a fruit to eat or
(02:59):
do very much with, except thereis a small group in my village
Facebook gardening group thatlike to come and pick the quince
every year.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Listen, we have a Facebook group in the building I
live, but there's actually two,because the two admins broke up
and they blocked each other, sonow we have two groups.
It's kind of funny, but sad atthe same time.
Do you have to choose?
Do you choose?
No, you have to choose tochoose.
You have to double post.
You have to double post.
It's very time consuming.
I want to ask you something,because there's so much to
(03:32):
unearth here.
Do you get bored of telling astory?
Is it old for you at this point?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
no, no, it isn't for me, because I don't know it.
It's still so vivid.
Even the very beginning in manyways feels like just yesterday.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I get that, I so.
So get that.
Like you know, I know your mom,frida Freda.
Frida Frida was an integralpart of the beginning and it
sounds like she was part of alsominding you, helping you with
your kids.
So had I had that too.
So when I started my handbagline, my mom was driving me back
and forth to JFK to pick up myshipments and I was opening the
(04:11):
boxes with her and only to gether facial expression of do you
really want to do this?
Because this is not good.
So it's the passive aggressiveI'm here to support, but are you
sure this is what we're doing?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, and the things that you know my mom would say
sometimes if somebody came foran interview and I'd maybe
finishing off some call orsomething and I'd look at and if
I saw the journalist speakingto my mother, my heart would
sink.
I'd think, oh my gosh, what isshe saying?
Oh, no, no, this is awful, Ican't remember.
(04:46):
No, we can't.
A magazine came in and theysaid and how, what can you tell
us about your daughter?
What can you say about yourdaughter and my mom?
Of all the things that I wouldhave loved her to have said?
She said she's not stupid.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's it , really.
Yeah, that's it, really, yeah,that's it.
Yep, yep.
She was on payroll with you.
You should have like had an HRchat with her about that.
After, like, here's the do'sand don'ts of what we say, cut
her off at the knee, my gosh,what on earth she's not stupid,
that's it.
(05:22):
Could be my gravestone wasn'tstupid Mama.
Yes, yeah, oh my God.
Well, I think I've read everyinterview you've ever had and,
as I was saying, I believe thereare more people like you.
I would throw me into theconversation, but I never
reached the level of success.
Because you found a hole in themarket and was able to
capitalize on it, and I believeyou know creating something, it
(05:44):
also comes down to timing, rightTiming and hustle.
So you found something at theright place at the right time
and had the hustle and need andtherefore said you know, it's so
interesting when we're put intothese positions because we
really even the most risk aversepeople.
When you're in it, you don'teven see what the downside is
Like.
It's like, okay, this is whatI'm doing, the end.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's all right and this is might be
quite sad, but I honestly lovethe satchel.
It is like my favorite bag ever, because I'm not a tremendously
fussy person, right, not apractical person, and so I don't
want to be messing aroundlooking for goodness knows how
(06:26):
many pockets or zips or you know.
I just can't be doing with it.
And I was astounded when Icouldn't find a traditional
school satchel for my children,because there were all these
bags that had zips that wouldfall apart or weren't well made
or they look really grungy.
And I had my satchel from themoment I started secondary
(06:50):
school, so about you know, 10,11, right up until the end of
university, and it just alwayswas there.
It would stand up and I couldfish things out of it.
It didn't sort of disgorge itscontents all over the floor, it
was just always something Ididn't have to think about.
So with Emily and Max, I justthought of course you're going
(07:11):
to want to have a satchel, andit didn't occur to me for a
minute that I wouldn't be ableto just find one Right, of
course, really easily, becauseit's traditional British school
bag and they were In atraditional British school yes,
very, very traditional, and Iwas really shocked and sort of
(07:31):
horrified when then I couldn'tfind one.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So you know you said a lot of interesting things.
Number one it stood up.
Now we know from the do's anddon'ts of handbags and
merchandising that unless thebag stands it will not be
successful.
Number one.
Number two if you had the samebag standing the test of time,
it was a good, solid cow leather, yeah, and it was a stodgy
(07:54):
color and it had the flap withthe little wheelie buckle,
doodahs, and it could stand thetest of time, much like the
origin of what Coach was thatthey used baseball mitt leather
back then, yeah, and not so muchnow because everything has to
move a lot quicker.
But the fact is I know thatthis was born out of necessity,
for twofold One, you couldn'tfind it, and two, you wanted to
(08:16):
put your kids into public school, which we call private school
here.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yes, that's right, that's right.
Private school here?
Yes, that's right, that's right.
And so if I hadn't had thisneed of oh my gosh, how am I
going to make school fees, howam I going to pay for my
children's education?
If I didn't have that pressing,pressing need, then maybe I
would never have done this.
But it was literally a list ofwhat can I do to make enough
(08:44):
money to make sure my childrenget a good education, because
education is just so important.
You know, it's freedom, it'sbeen so important for me and
that is the gift that I wantedmost of all to give to them.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
My grandmother, who was a Holocaust survivor, always
used to say education is thelightest package you'll ever
have to carry because you know,forced to work at 15.
So it was.
You know, obviously differenttimes and you know you don't
appreciate that obviously whenyou're a child.
But having a couple degreeshere and there you're like, oh
yeah, everybody needs to keeplearning.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So I understand, yeah , from your coming ways of
learning too, because when Ithink of all the things I
learned during the whole processof founding and growing and
running Cambridge Satchel, youknow I had to teach myself so
many things.
Goodness for YouTube, thankgoodness.
Thank goodness you know eventhings like how to use these
(09:41):
machines.
When you put the nylonstrapping around boxes, you know
, with a little metal clamp onthem I could buy the machine,
the gizmo that sort of does andputs the staples on them.
But how do you use the blinkingthing?
Right, you know.
But thank goodness there's ahow to video for just about
everything.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
There is now.
When I started, there wasn'tany videos, so it was like you'd
get a box and you'd be like,well, what the hell am I
supposed to do now?
Yeah, so now you were marriedat the time, I was, yeah, so I
find this interesting and if youdon't want to speak about that,
you know, I totally understand.
But was it a pushback?
And what was the responseinternally Because I know a lot
(10:21):
of people when they startsomething like this of which
they have zero experience and orknowledge an interesting
dialogue internally in terms of,okay, why are you doing this?
Okay, I want to do this to payfor school fees.
Does your child really evenneed to go to this precious
school?
And where are you getting themoney from to start this?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Like, so, obviously you have to do everything
yourself, even within thispartnership, and I think that it
was made a lot easier for mebecause I started Cambridge
Sessure with 600 pounds so about$700, which I had organized a
conference and been paid 600pounds for it and that was it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That was your seed money.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Seed money is, yeah, bigging it up a little bit, but,
yes, it was.
It was a tiny seed, yes, and sothat was, you know, the money
that I had to gamble on this bigdream.
Because, yes, the outcome waslet's get Emily Maggs into a
great school, but then it sortof becomes this huge challenge.
(11:25):
It's golly I can do something.
That is going to be amazing.
What if this worked?
What if?
Because my dad was self-employed, you know, and he had his own
business, and I think that afterI had stopped full-time work to
be at home for a long time withEmily and Mac, and then it was
suddenly this thing of, oh,maybe I don't have to work out
(11:49):
how to get back into atraditional workforce, because
if I try to do this, I can makeit work better around the
children, I can be there forschool holidays, I can do school
drop-offs and pickups and I canbe trying out something amazing
, which means that I get to feellike I'm evolving as well.
(12:10):
Because they were six and eightwhen I started Cambridge
Satchel and I would see, withevery day, they would be
learning things.
They'd be learning very earlyon.
You've got the books.
You're trying to teach them andhelp them learn to read, and
then they're going to school andthey're learning how to do lots
of different things and it'sjust wonderful watching them
(12:33):
learn and grow and become theirlittle people.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Well, you were an early adopter from a work from
home, mom.
Yes, exactly yes, because youwere always working.
Yes, because you were alwaysworking.
Yes, but you were with them.
Yes, so with them.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Exactly.
And then it suddenly starts asthey become that bit more
independent and start enjoyingspending time with people their
own age and doing their own sortof things.
Then suddenly there's thishorror of, you know, being at
home with the children was funwhen it was being at home with
(13:11):
the children, but if thechildren are actually doing
these other things now, I'mstill at home.
What am I going to do?
That's going to keep my mindactive?
That makes me feel that I'm notjust left standing.
To have a sense of purpose,Exactly yeah, and so suddenly,
(13:33):
the prospect of I'm going tostart a business, Well, that's
exciting, that's really exciting.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well, again, it's so fascinating.
So you came up, you saw thishole in the market, not even
realizing that it was perceivedas from even a marketing term a
hole in the market, right, likewhat's missing.
Defining all that?
Because everything you've donefrom a marketing angle was done
right.
You found something that wasneeded.
(14:01):
It satisfied a need and a want.
You couldn't find it.
You started looking around andthen you found this one shop and
you stock them for them toshare their manufacturer and
that is actually in my book.
I speak about that that it'salmost like babysitters, that
when you find a good babysitteryou don't share their name or
(14:21):
information.
So you have to really come upwith something clever to get
people to share who their sourceis, and then you show up at
said source's door saying wehave to figure this out right
now.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah and yes, that shop.
Let me get rid of all of thosethat are things appearing on my
screen.
Yes, and it was this findingsomewhere that somehow had
managed to find real, authenticschool satchels.
Because when I started lookingfor manufacturers a difference
(14:55):
between handmade and artisan,100%, and the minute somebody
describes themselves as artisanI soon discovered that they're
going to be way too expensivefor me to ever use to sell them.
That's not going to happen, yes, and they're never going to be
(15:16):
able to make them in bulk.
I'm never going to be able tosell to all of the
schoolchildren in Britainbecause there's some man in his
artisan shed doing artisanthings and making a bag every
two weeks.
Correct, that would never andthat hadn't occurred to me
(15:37):
before I went on the hunt for amanufacturer.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, it's a learning curve, because you find someone
who can finally make it andthen you go and you get orders
against it and then you realize,oh my God, it will be at least
six months before I get myproduction from said person.
And then you go and bother themand then, because you're
pissing them off, they want nopart.
I'm going to put you at thebottom of the list because
(16:02):
you're really irritating me.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yes, although in my case it worked the other way
around.
I think that I had nagging downto such a fine art Well done
that he was willing to just makeme a batch of these things,
because he was sure, so sure,that you'd throw away, that
there's no market for it.
(16:24):
And it was literally like, if Imake you six of these things,
will you just leave me alone?
Yes, I will, yes, I will.
And it catapulted me to thefront of his queue because he
was so certain that nobodywanted these things because his
factory in the North in the UK,in Hulb, they used to make
(16:56):
satchels back in the 1970s wheneverybody had them, and if you
look at the sort of Narnia filmsand all of those, they were
satchels.
His company used to make thosethen and he said no, nobody
wants them now, they're not ontrend.
I think you're wrong.
I think you're wrong.
And he said look, I'll make youthese six, but you have to just
go away and stop pestering me.
But if this works and I'm right, then I could be your best
(17:16):
customer ever.
And he was so certain that itwasn't going to work.
He said, yes, yes, well, thenyou can come back to me, which
was great because then I couldtalk to him.
Thank goodness.
But yes, he would literally doanything just to make me stop.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, I'm sure we talk about this that when you
come in to speak to amanufacturer, the more green you
are, the less they want to talkto you and the more they'll
charge you.
Right, it's that like you don'tknow what you're doing, extra
cost, you don't understandconstruction or how a bag is,
(17:52):
the anatomy of a handbag, thesilhouettes, all you knew, you
know, like it's a satchel.
And here he saw this mom with abig dream and a bag and it's
like, yeah, I don't know youshould.
Just this is cute, good for you, I think.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I was really, really fortunate that my first
manufacturer was absolute saltof the earth, one of the most
amazing men ever, you know, andI kept in touch right the way
along and he came to shopopenings and everything, and
just the most honest must havekept him in business.
(18:24):
Honest, I put so much his waythat he couldn't keep up.
And then I had to find a secondand then a third and it sort of
went that way and those firstthree manufacturers were the
most decent, honest men that youcould ever come across.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Was he insulted that you had to go get another, or he
knew you needed to?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
No, because I said to him look, can you please?
Just I need way, way more, way,way more, because he could make
up to 250 bags a week and inthe beginning I thought that
would be more than anybody wouldever need.
I would never need more than250 a week.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
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Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, barnes, noble or
(19:29):
wherever you get your books.
Thanks for your support.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And then it was growing and I really needed, you
know, a lot more than that.
And so I said look, can youplease just take on more people?
And there was a point at whichI think, because of labor laws
and the way that the factoriesare set up in the UK, there's a
point at which you decide you'reeither stepping up it is a big
(19:55):
step up, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You decide you're eitherstepping up.
It is a big step up, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And for each of the three firstmanufacturers it always
happened around the 200 to 250bags a week.
That was the limit.
After that, they needed aspecial first aid person and
they needed a special Insuranceand overhead and Everything
changed.
And so I tried to get him totake on more people and to
(20:18):
expand and to grow.
But he was very, very honestand just said look at my stage
in life, I've seen stressfultimes.
I don't want to expand thefactory.
So it was like, well, okay, ifI always give you enough to keep
you entirely busy, would youmind then if the excess I take
(20:41):
to somebody else?
And so he said no, no, and hehelped me find another person to
take the next layer.
That's amazing, yeah, and thenthey spoke to each other often
to make sure that things likethe rivets were always the same,
how lucky spoke to them withpeople, and it was always I have
(21:15):
to do the right thing by Alec,because he was the first one he
started, so he gets the first250.
After that.
This is what I need.
And then it happened again thatI was now on 500 bags a week.
It wasn't enough.
We needed to find another one,and I found a very, very
(21:35):
colorful character based inNorfolk, a fantastic man who
sadly passed away about seven oreight years ago, and I said
look, this is the way it works.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
This is how we are doing business.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
This is how it works, you know, and it just means
that if one of you then areshort of rivets or there's a
problem, you haven't got enoughthread of a particular color,
you can form a sort of like a-Alliance Little alliance going
there and you can talk to eachother and you can complain about
me or whatever.
You can do your own thing, andthey got on really well and that
(22:09):
was absolutely fantastic Withthose three.
That is the dream that you findpeople like that three.
That is the dream that you findpeople like that, amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
But I only now, looking back on it, realize how
lucky I was to find and that'syeah, that's touched by, touched
by something.
I have a couple questions.
So one how did you go aboutselling?
Were you selling from yourkitchen?
Were you going to mom's door todoor?
Were you doing school fairs?
Or were you like, okay, I'mgoing to start going to local
boutiques?
And how, within this journey,because we have more to cover,
(22:47):
did you say the production muststay in England?
How did you?
Let's tackle the first one.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So for me, it was always important that production
stayed in the UK.
In Britain it wasn't in Englandbecause I had two manufacturers
in England and one in Scotland,but it was all British and that
made it easy for me because Icould you could patrol it, I
could phone them up without atime difference, we all spoke
the same language and if thingsreally came to a crunch point, I
(23:17):
could always get in my car anddrive and be there that same day
or the next morning.
It made things very, verysimple for me, I think, and also
just things like when I waspaying them.
We're all being paid in pounds.
There was no currency issues,there were no customs
declarations.
That was all very easy.
The selling I had read a bookGuerrilla Marketing.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I have it up here, oh God.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
But it's great, I liked it.
And in there it sort of saidyou have to do your marketing in
different ways.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Ambient media, guerrilla marketing.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, you really have to different ways.
And so I thought, oh, I've gotto sort of approach that I'd
made these funny little flyersout of wood and then you know,
you get the guillotine.
And so that did all of theseflyers myself.
And then I found loads of freedirectories because I needed to
be mentioned in lots of placesbecause otherwise, you know,
(24:17):
google doesn't see you.
So this is a vintage SEO.
Vintage, vintage, seo.
Yeah, yes, absolutely, and thenyou never link outside.
So it's like a cul-de-sac, youknow.
You just always try to getsomebody to mention you or
listed on anything, but younever link out Right.
To mention you or listed onanything, but you never link out
Right, because virtuallyeverybody's website was better
(24:39):
than mine, so I didn't wantanybody leaving my website.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right, I remember the vintage Cambridge Satchel
Company's website because I keptnotes.
My template to my book was,like me, I was teaching a class
on how to launch a handbag linewhen you're not trained in
design prior to me even having areal business.
Because they found me talkingabout it and some you know one
(25:04):
of those organizations that havelike learn how to make a
handbag line.
I mean I was in the samebooklet.
It was called the LearningAnnex, and they'd have those
bins on the street that youcould get outside.
You know your pharmacies and soforth.
I mean I was in one on the samecover as Donald Trump where it
was learn how to sell realestate.
I mean, that's how old schoolwe're going and they would take
(25:26):
the handbag designer flavor ofthe week.
But because I was keeping notes, I had a syllabus, I had
resources, I had recommendations, I had designers to follow and
you were one of them.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
My very first website .
When you have £600 as your seedfund, you don't really have
much of that to spend on a webdesigner, right, you know?
And this was 2008.
Yeah, and so I thought I'm justgoing to have to teach myself.
How hard can it be?
(25:59):
You know, this is the same asthat usually comes before some
disaster, but how hard can it be?
And so I took a free Microsoftcourse, free online course, over
a couple of nights and thencame up with this website.
That was the very first one, ohmy God.
And it was just sort of PayPaland you'd have to highlight all
(26:22):
of the code for a button andthen you'd embed the code and
each color was its own SKU.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And then you've got the button, but the button
somehow don't want to align onthe website.
Yeah, so that kind of thing,and so, yeah, I went through all
of that.
But when you do go through allof that, you have such an
understanding of your business,of every part of your business.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, it's so interesting because most people
now are so quick to outsource Ineed a salesperson, I need a
publicist, I need a designer.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
You have to learn how to makeeverything from start to finish.
Even if you do it poorly, youneed to know.
So when you hire people, youknow what they're doing wrong,
(27:09):
even from a salesperson, andyou're like oh well, did you hit
up these stores?
No, why not I go in them, I'mstill doing it.
Did you reach out to theseeditors?
No, well, I know they coverstories about female founders,
handbag collared bags, like, whyaren't you so?
And then you end up doing allthat heavy lifting yourself
(27:30):
anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, exactly, and when you have people join you,
it's very different.
You know they're on their owncareer path, right?
Whereas for me, this was justsomething I absolutely lived and
breathed and loved and thoughtabout constantly.
I wasn't thinking how long do Ineed to stay here before moving
(27:51):
to my next bigger job?
Yeah, and then moving to.
So I wasn't out to make a namefor myself in web design, I was
just out to sell these bags, youknow, and it was like, okay,
this seems to be working.
I'll sort of move on and try tolook at something else.
But that is the thing, when youlearn to do every aspect of it
yourself.
I remember, you know, becausethe bags, I wanted people's
(28:13):
initials on the bags, becausethere's small little card holder
at the front.
Children sometimes used to puttheir names in the card holder
at the front, and then I think,as a mom, I don't want my
children's names to be on thebag.
That's visible from.
You know what if some creepyperson says, oh, hello, emily,
(28:34):
because they can read it on thefront of their bag?
Don't need that, but I want away to tell the bags apart.
Let's have initials embossed onthem.
That would be nice.
And the first embossing machine, oh God, with a grant.
And the person came over fromGermany, it was a German machine
.
He didn't speak very goodEnglish, which is very unusual
(28:58):
because you know, for Germans,forget it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
They are people who speak English.
They're very organized.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Just about anybody in their first state he didn't
speak English.
I speak no German, and so itwas all done through sort of
like here you do this, do that,you do this, and then you go no,
no, no, it's all 999 orsomething like that.
No, no, no, let's try somethingelse.
And then we'd all sit and havea biscuit and try again.
You know, that's how I learnedto do embossing from him, and I
(29:28):
embossed all of the bagsPersonally.
Yes, yeah.
For a long time, and even afterthe New York Fashion Week times
and the Google times, when wewould have a flood in at
Christmas time, I never feltable to ask anybody to work
between sort of 10 pm and 3 amembossing bags.
(29:52):
Right, so that was my slot, Iwould do that, and I would
emboss between 10 and 3.
So when people came in to pack,they'd have a load ready, Were
you out of your home by thispoint.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
That was yes.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
That was when we were in the first premises, and to
anybody starting out I would saythe less you tie yourself into
long-term things, the better.
Yeah, so my first premises waslike I had to give a month's
notice.
If things went badly, I wouldgive a month's notice.
(30:27):
And so I knew, oh, that's theworst that can happen.
You know, that is what it wouldcost me if I had to.
Suddenly I'd lose a month'srent, right Exactly, whereas
often it can be a six month oryears sort of yeah, you'll eat
that money and lose it Exactly.
Yeah, and the more you can avoidthose kinds of things, I think,
(30:53):
the more creative you're stillallowing yourself to be, because
the less scared you are of whatyou have to meet.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
How did you handle sales?
I mean, the fascinating thingabout your brand is that all the
silhouettes they were notcousins, they were siblings of
the same parents and typicallywhen people develop it's like
you could tell they're allrelated because there's a story.
But yours were like straight upsame DNA.
(31:21):
You know the brothers and thesisters were mating and giving
birth to the same child, so Iknow it's a different color.
So how did you handle sales?
Because I'm sure there wereplenty of people in your ear
saying you should do this andyou should do that, and you're
like no, no, we're keeping thesame bag, that's it.
We can make it bigger, we canmake it smaller, we could change
the strap shorter, we can makeit longer.
(31:42):
So how did you handle door todoor and D to C, as it's called
now?
But you were selling online,because back then retailers were
a little offended if you soldmore on your website, whereas
now they want to make sure youcan sell on your website before
they even pick you up.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, and I think that well, first of all, because
the bags the only thingdefining the different bags was
the size of the bag.
That was a real issue when itcame to taking the photographs
for the website.
Oh my God, yeah, of course.
I mean, I'm sure that we've allbought something online and
(32:19):
then, when it comes, you thinkwhat is?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
that it's so small.
Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You've bought something of like.
I bought this thing of thisweird.
It's a bit like a meat flavoredyeast paste.
Bovril that British peopleeither.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It wasn't, was it like a sack?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And it was just sort of like the size of a motorbike
helmet.
I was expecting it to besomething different on the south
, but it would be small.
I had like a year's supply.
I had the industrial sizebecause I can't tell on the
screen and that was an issuethat I really faced.
With the satchels, they alllook exactly the same.
(32:58):
So in a way that at the timeseemed perfectly like the
commonsensical approach, Ithought the answer to this is
obvious.
With every bag I'm going totake it photograph next to a
banana, because everybody knowsthe size of a banana and they
can see how much bigger thesebags are compared to this banana
(33:22):
.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I did not know you had a banana measurement.
That's amazing.
Well, I thought it was.
I never saw that in any of yourinterviews.
This is amazing.
I'm glad I got a nugget that noone else did.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, and it seemed like such an obvious workaround.
I look back on it now and Ithink actually it's probably a
bit insane, you know, but I'mgoing to have a banana because
that's how people can tell thedifference in sizes.
My god, and it's just the.
(33:54):
The things then, like the strapsizes.
I know now you're supposed tobe so careful about how you
refer to people and all thiskind of thing, but it was sort
of like there are two strapsizes there's one if you're five
foot six or less.
There's one if you're five footsix or less.
There's one if you're five footsix and a bit and more.
(34:18):
That's it.
You know it's long and short,that's it.
That's all it is.
Yeah, it just seemed a loteasier than when Cambridge
Satchel grew and we had all thethings that a proper handbag
brand has.
You know, you've got themerchandisers and the e-com team
and all this kind of thing, andthen suddenly it's like things
(34:38):
become so much more complicated.
Is it frustrating for you tosee?
Yes, massively frustrating Tohave skew codes that I couldn't
understand.
I couldn't look at andunderstand, because for the
first five years it was all youunderstand because for the first
five years it was all you, Ijust had a code.
(35:01):
It was one, two, three like 11.
If it was an 11 inch bag and itwas red and it had a shoulder
strap not backpack straps, itwould be 11RS, right, that's it
Right.
You'd look at the code, you'dthink, yes, 11 inch, red and a
shoulder strap, and it was soeasy.
And then in later, right, you'dlook at the code, you'd think,
yes, 11-inch, red and a shoulderstrap, and it was so easy.
And then in later years,there'd be things like, oh no,
(35:22):
well, we can't sell thisstraight away because we haven't
generated a SKU code.
And you think, how can this be?
You know what color is it, whatsize is it?
Backpack straps or shoulderstraps?
And it is frustrating when acompany scales and complexity
just really, really takes over.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I mean, you had the gift and the curse of you came
up with something.
People wanted it, lots and lotsof people wanted it and then,
before you knew it you weredealing with, one of your
factories started sellingknockoffs, right, if I'm not
mistaken.
Well, you're correct.
So you had to chase after them,which is every brand's fear.
But I always pad that with noone's knocking you off unless
(36:07):
you're successful.
So don't lose any sleep ontrying to tell a factory not to
knock you off, because you needtheir help at the same time,
whereas I had a very different.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
The one that was doing the knockoffs was the one
that was doing the volumeproduction, and you needed that.
I really needed that, becauseit was the New York Times had
called us the street style theit bag, the it bag, right the it
bag, and instantly I had 16,000bags on back order.
(36:42):
From what?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
From the website.
No, but like how many were youproducing before?
At a comfortable level?
Like, how did that moment giveyou you could manage production?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
prior to that piece.
Yes, I could to manage itbecause I had my three
manufacturers making between 200and 250 bags a week, so you had
about 2,000 bags coming out.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
This New York Times thing hits and all of a sudden
you have your tipping pointmoment.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
So you had to run and find a new factory quickly,
exactly yes, a big factory thatcould really cope with volume
while still keeping my threeoriginal manufacturers happy and
busy and completely at capacity.
And so even doing that wasquite a bit more juggling than I
(37:30):
ever anticipated, right?
But then finding out that thenew ones, the ones at scale
within three months, were taking, I mean, a lot of the leather
that I was buying I was buyingthe raw materials and knocking
off the bags because they knewthat there was this huge delay
(37:52):
and backlog and people wantedthem and and whatever and I was
making at the time.
The hardest thing really atthat time was I was also in my
third Paris Fashion Week forComme des Garcons, so I was
making bags for Comme and theywere being made at this new
(38:12):
place.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Were you designing them as well?
You were private labelinghandbags for them, or it was a
collaboration?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
No, it was a collaboration.
I know that I can never workwith somebody I don't trust, and
this is the definition of Didyou know, going in, that you
didn't get the good feeling, butyou had no choice.
No, I had the good feeling, andthat's what is so awful.
That is what is so awful.
(38:38):
I had no clue of what they wereplanning or plotting or doing.
It was one of their employeesthat phoned me and told you yes.
And told me they said oh, areyou the lady with the boxer dog
that comes to the factory?
Yes, I am.
Oh, I can't sleep at nightbecause this is what's happening
(39:01):
.
You know, we're making copiesof the bags.
They've got a different name onthem.
They're being hid in a lockupacross the road.
I had no idea.
And the other one, who was very, very canny she's so sharp was
Sasha Sasha canny, she's sosharp with sasha sasha wilkins.
Fantastic, she was blogging atthat time.
Liberty london girl.
I remember that, yeah, and shehad sent me a note and said oh,
(39:24):
you sent me bags in the pastthat I've really loved.
You've changed your name.
I said, no, I haven't changedmy name.
Wow, and they had sent her abag, and so it was between
between While they were movingfast.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
If they were sending to influencers, they came to
play.
That wasn't like let's justmake some money on the side.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
No, no, no, this was really from, I think day one.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
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Speaker 1 (41:23):
You know, then, when I had the phone call from
someone that actually worked atthat factory, I thought it's not
someone copying my designs onmy bags, it's actually my
manufacturer.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Just out of curiosity , because I mean one of my
licensing deals went, as yourpeople call, tits up.
I mean it was just horrendousthat I got locked out of my own
brand while I was still workingwith them for them.
They still legally had therights and I had to fight for
the rights to get back.
And I was newly married and Iknew the toll that it took on my
(41:58):
relationship.
Because here I am, I definemyself as this brand, this is my
livelihood, this is all I knowat this point.
Whatever I knew is out thewindow.
Now I have a partner, slashroommate who's seeing me lose my
mind.
I mean it takes its toll, likeall of this, because I'm sure at
this point you were makingconsiderable monies.
It's hard for people to see yougo through all this, like how
(42:22):
can someone support you whileyou're like I don't even know
how to navigate this?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I think I kept them.
I was trying to manage all theemails coming in from the
customers who were waiting fortheir bags 16,000 of them
yourself, I understand.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I totally000 of them yourself, I understand.
I, totally, totally, totally.
I didn't know for years, years.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
And it was, I remember, using and discovering
TextExpander, you know where.
If you put in a compilation,then all of a sudden you know
it'll insert a paragraph, and Istill have that on my phone.
Sometimes, if I put somethingin and I've mistyped, and so
there's this weird combinationof characters, it'll suddenly
(43:03):
expand it to.
Thank you so much for placingyour order with the.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Cambridge.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Bachelor of Arts.
It's a paragraph and I'll think, oh my gosh, that takes me back
, because when you're so deep inthe trenches, you think that
you should be able to keep upwith answering all these emails.
Yes, and you're failing, that.
You're not somehow able to?
Yes, I had this program then,because I can speak a lot faster
(43:29):
than I can type, yeah.
And so I had this one where Icould text to get these things
done, and I was thinking this iswrong.
I should be able to get back toall these people.
I was getting like 2000 emailsa day.
Of course I wouldn't be able toget back and set up a factory,
you know, and do all thesethings, because I decided I knew
(43:51):
that I could not.
The minute I found out what hewas doing, I would not work with
him anymore and I pulled allthe leather out of there, even
though I still had this enormousbacklog.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
As a result, were you able to kill his knockoff
business, or he continuedBecause he didn't want to use
any of his own supplies, I'msure.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, and he continued and I thought I think
it's really important, whenthings are going very badly, to
identify what's going to get youout of the hole, what is going
to get you out of that.
And so at that point it's notabout worrying what he's doing
or anger towards him or gettingeven with him or suing him, or
(44:35):
that's not actually going tohelp, it's not going to fix your
situation.
The only thing that will fix itis either getting another
manufacturer up and runningreally quickly, which would be
very difficult, or starting afactory yourself.
I just remember that momentwhen I went down to face him to
(44:58):
tell him I knew what he wasdoing and it was scary.
It was a really scary moment.
Do you remember the drive up?
Oh, I remember it so well.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I felt sick Like the pit in your stomach.
Yeah, so sick.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I had one of the leather tanneries giant lorries
following because they collectthe leather Right but I didn't
know where it was going to go.
And I was going there and therewas someone I didn't have that
many employees at the time andthere was this really young girl
(45:33):
that was working for me and shewas great and she was sitting
at the side and she was sayingoh, I'm looking at Twitter
because it was all about Twitterback then.
Right, right, right, right,right.
I'm looking at Twitter andthey're saying oh, we're so busy
with this brand, this knockoffbrand.
He was doing oh, we're so happy, we're so busy, keep your
orders coming in, all this kindof thing.
And I pulled up outside thefactory when I went in.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
I just Did he not know you were coming.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
No, he didn't know I was coming.
And I talked to him and I saidI know what you're doing, you
know, I know what's happeninghere.
And he just said yes, but youneed manufacturing and you're a
stupid woman, know nothing aboutmanufacturing.
So you've got to suck it up.
And I just thought I snappedand so I just thought well, at
(46:20):
that point I said no, I ampulling out the leather, I'm not
going to give you another order.
And he said well, you'll beback, you've got no choice and
stormed out.
And I looked around and Ithought you know, if you can do
that to your best customerbecause I was easily his biggest
customer, easily easily hisbiggest and best customer what
(46:40):
kind of person does that andwhat do they like to work for?
And so in a real sort of out ofbody moment, I remember I
almost feel like I could seemyself just suddenly announcing
very calmly well, I'm reallysorry, but there are no more
satchels for you to make.
I have thousands and thousands.
(47:02):
At this point it was closer to20,000 on back of order.
But if you want to work for meat my factory, I would love to
have you.
And I thought who is thisperson?
What factory would that be?
Have you?
And I thought who is thisperson?
What factory would that be?
Which one are you speaking to?
And I ended up taking all buttwo of his employees.
(47:25):
But I really vividly rememberdriving back to Cambridge after
that.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Who was driving the truck?
You?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
No, the man with the leather.
I said take it back to thetannery.
I'll phone you with a locationin the morning.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Just keep driving aimlessly.
Go to a Tesla, take it back tothe tannery who went in the back
to collect everything.
Did you like physically removeeverything?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
No, the guys from the tannery.
They knew, because I said tothem we're going down, you
supply me with all this leatherand you unload it there.
So I need you to load itBecause I pay for it.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
It's my leather.
I need it Right right right.
Was your tannery in the UK?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yes, Some of it was in the UK and some of it then
was from a guy who had some fromItaly and from Spain, but he
had a sort of like that.
You know, there was a placewhere it all came in and it was
stored.
I drew from that.
So you know, thank goodness.
But I remember driving back toCambridge and thinking I think
(48:37):
it was shock, really, because itwas very, very calm.
I'm thinking, oh, what have Ijust done?
I'll be time to pick Emily andMax up from school.
Perfect, as you do, I'll makethem their dinner.
Yeah, yeah, I'll make themtheir dinner.
Yeah, I'll make the tea, andthen we can do homework Once
they've gone to bed.
I'll figure this out.
(48:58):
I'll go on right move, becauseI'm not sure what you need for a
factory, but I'm pretty surethe first thing you need is a
building, Wait.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
So I want to talk a little bit about you sold a
percentage or gave up apercentage.
Was it majority, minority?
And what happened to your localfactory that you then created?
How did all that evolve fromthere?
Because then now you're reallyback in control, but I'm
assuming it became way too much,for you know, just Julie, come
(49:30):
a mom, come OBE, pre OBE, preCBE, just still MUM.
I'm sure people by this pointyou were making so much money or
getting enough attention thatpeople were then approaching you
and you were like no, no, no,no no, no, so many.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
And it would always be these approaches like oh,
would you like to go for lunchand tell me your plans for the
future?
And I think, no, I don't wantto go for lunch, I'm trying to
set up a factory.
What are you talking about?
Go for lunch?
I don't even know you Right,exactly.
And so it was very much onestep at a time, because I soon
(50:06):
realized that I was going tohave to use the money that the
people had paid for their bags,that I couldn't make to set up
the factory.
That's terrifying, that's scary.
That's scary If you've neverreally been in manufacturing.
This wasn't the time for me tothink oh, I know, I'm going to
(50:28):
get a property agent to locate agood factory with.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
You were like screw this, I need a building.
Yesterday Exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
I thought, yeah, I need to employ the people that
currently work for that horrible.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (50:42):
able to pull those people.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I left my phone number and just started a job
with a nice person and thenphoned me.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
That's amazing.
That's savage, that's verysavage.
It didn't feel savage at thetime.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
It's amazing, necessary.
And all of those people youknow they knew what machine they
because I had always beendecent and honest and
transparent with my first threemanufacturers.
They were fantastic.
At that stage they were sayingthese are the sewing machines
that you need.
(51:17):
You need two types of sewingmachines, you need a flatbed,
you need a post.
This is where we get them from.
And I was thinking I can't buythese machines.
But it turns out it's just abit like musical instruments.
If your children are learningmusical instruments, you can
hire them and then buy themafter you walk off your I'm sure
there are plenty of rentalplaces that have like industrial
(51:39):
machines just lying around.
I still remember.
You know the flatbed machinewas £23.40 a week.
You know all of these sort ofthings that like the devil's in
the detail.
Yes, there's no detail.
I don't know about thisbusiness.
So you know it was anincredible time.
But from having no factory andno premises to the first bag
(52:03):
being produced was just overfour weeks.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Did you move your office to that factory?
No, now.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
No, because I live near the children's school.
I live in Cambridge, and thehorrible manufacturer was down
near Leicester, and so I had tosearch for premises within a
sort of like three mile radiusof his factory, because I needed
people.
If they could get to him towork, they could get to me to
work.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Wow, wow, that's like okay they could get to me to
work, right.
So, wow, wow, that's like okay,I guess we're doing this next.
So at this point, because, like, honestly, we could talk all
day If this is like my handbagcrack, I'm living for this.
You don't even know thesequince ladies who are coming
Can't hold the candles?
This chat Forget that, oh myGod.
(52:50):
So can't hold the candles?
This chat.
Forget that, oh my God.
So people started to approachyou to get a piece of this.
How did you navigate that?
Because then that got too messyand then you had to drive again
.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Basically, yeah, so I had met some people from BDO,
one of the sort of bigaccounting audit tax firms.
I'd met them at somethingbecause I'd, by that stage, had
one entrepreneur of the year forthe whole of Europe.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I remember that, yeah .
Speaker 1 (53:22):
So there was some celebratory thing and I met
somebody from BDO that I thought, oh, you seem nice.
And I called them and said,look, I'm getting all these
approaches.
I don't know these people, Idon't know these funds.
This is the kind of job that Idon't want to take on.
So I want you to help me.
Just come, bring it down to ashort list of like Vet them for
(53:47):
me yeah, the best five who youthink are a good fit, and then
I'll meet with those five andthen decide.
It was all done very much froma gut sort of feel.
There was one very, very goodfund that has backed some great
places, but I remember visitingtheir offices and it was so
messy I couldn't bear it.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
So I just can't do this.
You know my son, when he was infirst grade or second grade,
there was a little girl wholiked him and he went over to
her house for a play date.
And he came home and he's like,I just want you to know, I will
never marry her.
And I said okay, because shehad informed them they were
married and you know as littlekids do.
(54:29):
And I said, all right, run methrough.
What's the situation?
What are the new benchmarks?
And he said her home was somessy.
Yes, she didn't clean herplates.
Food fell on the floor.
No one was scolded, no onetidied it up.
He's like, who lives like that?
And he was seven.
So you know, you got to go withlike this is how I run my home.
(54:49):
This is how homes need to berun.
Anyone that I'm going to bepart of you?
Speaker 1 (54:53):
know, I just thought this is going to be a true
partnership with these people.
I can't dread going to theirhouse, you know, to their office
in London.
I can't dread it.
I can't think, oh my gosh, sortyourself out.
This isn't getting to get downto form, you know, and it was an
interesting process and, again,another incredible learning
(55:15):
experience.
And I look back on it now and Ithink I did choose the right
partner For that time.
Yes, for that time I choseIndex Ventures and they are
amazing, super smart, very, onit, incredible.
I really, really like them andI really respect them.
(55:36):
But I didn't manage the processafter the investment in a good
way.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
But you didn't know how.
No, I didn't know how.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
I didn't know how and I let it dent my sort of
confidence in my own ability.
I thought I can found something.
I don't know how to scale.
These people know how to scale.
And so the fact that suddenlythere was money in the business
whereas before there wasn't, itstarted off with 600 pounds and
(56:08):
then it was like virtuallyeverything going towards the
school fees off with 600 pounds,and then it was like virtually
everything going towards theschool fees, and then it was
having to set up a factory.
You know, without realizing orever thinking, I was going to
set up a factory and so therewas never this kind of like
feeling of look at us, we'rewell off.
Suddenly there was, and thenthere was the big hires that
come in at that point and Ilooked at those people and
(56:30):
thought they know what they'redoing, they've done this before.
I should defer to that and Ishouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
You know what?
That is something that has tobe learned, that cannot be
taught, because I've outsourcedenough people whom come in and
you just assume they're expertsas a result of their work
experience, their title, theirCV, their resume.
And then they come in andyou're like, oh my God, I still
(56:59):
know more than you, I still needto get involved.
And then by that point you feellike gosh, I've missed my
window to start telling you whatto do, so now I can't tell you
what to do, because now I don'twant to ruffle and mess the
whole system up that you put inplace to theoretically help me.
It turns into a whole cycle oflike you see things crumbling
and I think, also as women Ithink by nature we are, you know
(57:23):
, obviously those who are toodifficult, then they're pain in
the ass, those who aren't aretoo meek, but you hired people
that you authorized to come inand do this, so you don't want
to be the one to break it,because then they'll come back
on you.
So then you're like in this,should I, shouldn't I?
And then, if I do, I'm going tostep away and hopefully they'll
take my feedback, and then theydon't, and then it just turns
into this hot mess of handbagstoo, you know, and things used
(57:47):
to be so easy.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
Yeah, you know, my mom and I would pick a new color
from a paint chart from a homesupply place.
Right, look at that beautifulcolor.
We can do that.
Send it to the tannery, theycould match it.
Yeah, these new bags would comein in that color.
My mother would stand outsidein the garden with a sheet.
I would take a photo of the bag.
I would then just use myPixelmator, because it's cheaper
(58:14):
than Photoshop, to edit thephoto.
It would be up.
It would be up and for salewithin 10 minutes of that bag
arriving.
And suddenly these things weretaking months and product
development.
What's your inspiration?
What do you mean?
What's my inspiration?
It's a nice color and it justfeels right.
You know it's not.
(58:35):
Oh, my inspiration this time iswalking through the spice
market of Marrakesh.
No, this feels like a reallygreat color for now.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
That's my inspiration .
Yeah, because I know it willsell and I know you will like it
.
That is my inspiration.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
I know my community and these are the colors they
love.
They love bold post-paintcolors.
Yeah, they don't want to seethese washed out drab, muted
shape.
No, because other people can dothat.
Some people love that and theycan buy from the other place,
but we do bold vibrant energy.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
You got to know your community, you got to know and
you got to stand by.
You know, I am so appreciativeof this whole learning curve
that you're so generouslysharing with us, because all of
this information you come inassuming you're supposed to do
it this way we need the black,we need the brown, we need the
oxblood, we need this, but yourcommunity really might not want
(59:38):
that.
So stand true to that, becauseyou know what they'll buy and I
hope by that point that you knowone has done enough ethnography
and so forth of I know whatthey eat, I know what they sleep
, I know where they go out todinner, I know what goes in
their bag.
As a result of me knowing whothey are, I know what car they
drive.
I know how to design into theirlifestyle and the colors they
(59:59):
need that will make them happyenough to come back and buy
another.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Vibrant and the shops would look so vibrant.
And then suddenly there's likewhat's the neutral in this
collection?
I don't know.
There's like, what's theneutral in this collection?
I don't know, because it's notsomething I would ever wear.
Right, you've got a dark brownsatchel there.
Isn't that neutral enough foranybody.
No, we should have like a cream.
That's not practical.
What a cream.
(01:00:24):
You know, I'd never have acream because it's gonna get
dirty, dirty, dirty Clean.
Nobody's going to want asatchel to wear to a wedding.
Yeah, you know, so we don'thave to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Oh my God, Julie, I'm taking so much of your time.
I would love to you know, let'sdo a part two.
Let's do a part two.
I think we're going to have tobecause, honestly, like Because
the quince collectors are goingto be baying at the gate.
I know, ok, julie, this is partone, let's do a part two,
(01:01:01):
because there are very fewpeople I can talk to and have
this kind of rapport where,going through all this, who've
sold their company, have takenownership back, have sold it
again and then can enjoy meetingwith the local quince ladies.
So this is part one, julie,talk to me, how can people find
follow you or at least learnmore in the short term, because
we're absolutely doing a parttwo.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Oh yes, we must do a part two.
So I am at the moment on a bitof a break, a bit of a break
where I am doing up an old house, but I'm thinking that maybe
that process is something peoplewould like to follow along with
, because it's sort of oneprocess, I think so.
(01:01:42):
So maybe I should just getactive again on Instagram and
start sharing this never dulljourney that I have embarked on
and sort of continue to embarkon.
So I think that that's probablythe best way is just through my
(01:02:03):
Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
And what is your Instagram?
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
It's just Julie Dean CBE.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
And it's Julie J-U-L-I-E, d-e-a-n-e, cbe,
correct?
Let me have a look on this andjust quietly, what does CBE
stand for and who gave it to?
You Just want to throw that in.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
So a CBE is a great honor.
It's actually a medal.
I have a medal.
Well done, yes, and he was thenPrince Charles, who is now the
king, gave me my OBE, which isOfficer of the Order of the
British Empire, and I got bumpedup to CBE a couple of years ago
(01:02:47):
and that is Commander of theOrder.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
And the Queen gave that to you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Queen gave that to me just before she passed away
correct?
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Look at you.
With getting all this stuff, Iwould keep that stuff in the
background.
Hang a medal, julie.
Hang a medal.
Come on, it's in the drawerupstairs.
I mean, I know you're Britishand nobody likes to show off and
it's very antitheticalculturally, but you know, not
everybody here is.
Let the quince lady see it.
I would wear it on a Tuesday.
Maybe I'll wear it when we dopart two.
(01:03:17):
I'm here for that.
Listen.
This is part one, julie Dean ofthe Cambridge Satchel Company.
Thank you so much for today andmaybe by part two.
Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
I'll even have worked out exactly what my Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
But you are available on LinkedIn, correct I?
Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
am.
I am on LinkedIn, and that isJulieDeanCB, and Instagram is
the fun one, and that's the onethat I want to start sharing all
my crazy adventures while Ifind my next project, next
chapter Fabulous.
Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Thank you so much for being part of Handbag Designer
101.
We will be here for part two.
Thank you, thanks, bye.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
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