Join us as we sit down with Oleg Chebotarev, the visionary Creative Director of Jump From Paper, who shares his unconventional journey through the fashion world. From post-communist Russia to the bustling creative hubs of China, Oleg’s path is a masterclass in adaptability, resilience, and the intersection of culture and design.
Oleg’s career began with dual passions—international relations and fashion—leading to a bold move to China during the 2008 financial crisis. He opens up about the challenges of navigating language and cultural barriers, drawing surprising parallels between Russia and China, and the lessons he learned in shaping a truly global creative vision.
Takeaway Points
Fashion Without Borders: Explore how Oleg’s global perspective shapes his work in fashion and creative direction.
Creativity & Commerce: Learn the balance between artistic vision and market demand in the ever-changing fashion industry.
The Value of Reinvention: Hear how Oleg’s pivot from photography to creative direction redefined his career.
Our Guest, Oleg Chebotarev, is the Creative Director of Jump From Paper, a brand known for its bold, cartoon-like handbags. With a career spanning continents and industries, his insights into fashion, branding, and cross-cultural creativity offer valuable lessons for designers looking to stand out in the global market. 🎧 Don’t miss this inspiring conversation with Oleg Chepiktyov.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.
Buy Emily’s Books: “Handbag Designer 101” & “Savvy Suzanna’s Amazing Adventures in Handbags”
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And if this medium requires learning body
proportions, I don't knowgarment construction et cetera,
right right right.
Perhaps you need like maybe nota BA, but you need like strong
academic base.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast, with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(00:37):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Seat to it all.
Welcome.
Welcome, Oleg Chepiktyov fromJump From Paper.
Creative Director of Jump FromPaper.
Welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast.
(00:59):
Lovely to have a friendlyRussian in China, so thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Hi Emily, Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So that's quite the journey.
China, russia, russia, china,you've boppity-bopped all over
the place, haven't you?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, there was also Spain for a year in between, so
I'm just curious how far backcan I go?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We're going all the way back Because, honestly,
especially at the time where youwere born and we'd spoken about
this before post-wall falling,post-communism, the post-Ruble
going up and down, yeah, yeah,yeah.
You know, your experience wouldbe very different than someone
(01:44):
who would have been born even 10years before you in Russia.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Right.
Yeah, it's interesting that youtouched the subject of the
economy in general.
Okay, so we're going way, wayback.
When I graduated, first of all,I worked in the fashion
industry for a very long timeMore or less I think almost 15
years, less than 15 years and mymajor at the university was
(02:09):
international relations, isn't?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
that funny.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
But you know, it was funny when I was delivering my
thesis upon graduation because Idecided back then I was already
very interested in fashion, andinternational relations is a
very vast area.
I mean, there is, apart frompolitics and diplomacy, there is
such thing as culturaldiplomacy, soft power, something
(02:34):
which is your country very goodat.
Yes, and I thought that if Iwas already interested in the
subject, why won't I write mythesis about it?
And I was exploring the subjectof how role of China was
changing in the midst of 2008economic financial crisis,
(02:57):
because it hit the United Statesfirst and then slowly it
started affecting othercountries, and in China I think
it was particularly challenging,probably the year 2009, the
following year, because theoverseas market probably at that
point wasn't so stable and theystarted redirecting production
(03:18):
for the domestic market.
What I did?
I pretty much studied themarket and the country where I
relocated after graduation andmaybe we could roll back a
little bit a little more why Iwas interested in fashion.
It's very interesting because Inever lost my interest to
(03:40):
politics and just overall this.
I don't know global, globalaffairs, both cultural and
political and financial,economic, but I just really like
this bohemian allure of fashion, art and basically all my
friends were.
The majority of my friends backin uni were either studying
(04:04):
architecture or fashion orgraphic design, so I was just
hanging out with them and Ithought that I wanted to work in
fashion just because I likedbeing around these people, and
my first step was studying howChina was coping with the
challenges which brought by the2008 crisis.
(04:24):
So I did my first research andafter I graduated, I went to
China and I started looking fora job in fashion industry.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That must have been tough, not knowing how to speak
the language, because there'scertain countries that are
really prohibitive.
If you don't know the language.
In Europe you can get away withit Almost in most places you
could.
But once you hit China, onceyou hit Russia, if you don't
speak the language, you are very, very limited with what you can
(04:58):
do, other than being some sortof sad translator for people who
want to come in to teach them.
So to jump on in, especially inChina, and then to have to
learn the language pretty muchovernight, and then insert
yourself into the people and theculture and then say, by the
(05:18):
way, hire me because I'minterested in your economic
situation and, by the way,fashion too.
It's kind of a tough sell.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah, well, you know it's easier for Chinese
people to learn English than forforeigners to learn Chinese.
It's a very, very complexlanguage.
I mean, the grammar is notsuper hard, but you need to
learn a lot of characters.
Yes, and you need to say thingsthe way they say it Because,
(05:51):
for instance, if you makeliteral translation from Russian
into English, people willprobably understand you, but if
you do the same with Chinese,there is a very big chance that
they will not understand you.
So, yeah, but actually when Iwas at the uni, I was studying
Chinese.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Okay, so you had some basic fundamentals.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Very, very basic.
It's not the kind of languagewhich you can learn at a decent
level.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Unless you're there.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, yeah.
And when I came to China andpeople were like my foreign
friends were saying simplephrases like telling the taxi
driver don't left here, I wasreally impressed.
I was like, wow, you reallyspeak it.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, I mean, when I was living in Russia, the taxis
that we had there were justrandom people, that you would
just stick your arm out and youknow as they roll down their
window.
And then you'd have this wholediscussion of Skolkostoyt, how
much, how much, and you staywhere you are.
And because there's no leftturns.
Going up and down the streetyou would see everything twice
(06:55):
because you'd have to go to thevery, very end and then go all
the way around.
So you know like and this evenpredated having phones so if you
were in the car with someoneshady, you should hope like that
at least they had drank enoughthat you could get out at the
stoplight that they wouldn'tnotice.
So it was oh my god, it's alwaysan adventure when you're in a
(07:15):
different country.
So you get to china, you're inthis situation.
How did you start insertingyourself into the fashion scene
there to?
Say like okay, I can contribute.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, a lot of people who work in, let's say, experts
who made their career infashion in China.
Many of them actually don'thave education in fashion and
they have some education whichallows them to I don't know be
(07:48):
able to do some office work andgrow Right, right, right.
But areas like supply chain,retail yeah, at least these two.
This is areas where you can getan entry-level job and start
(08:10):
growing.
The most impressive case of aperson without education and
fashion who made it big was afriend of mine.
I think he worked as a salesassistant for Prada first and
then he moved to Marc.
Jacobs, and one of the toppositions that he got to was
like global retail director forMarc Jacobs.
The options which I had weremostly in supply chain.
(08:30):
And since I spoke some Mandarinand over the time was over the
first year living in China I got, I improved my vocabulary.
I wouldn't say I was fluent,but I was able to I don't know
do basic communication and as aresult, I got my first job as
(08:52):
sort of interpreter, slashmanager.
And there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And I was learning the supply chain basics, how we
communicate with the factory.
Construction details, technicaldetails.
So you need to learn how toexplain technical part to the
factory.
And if the factory tries tonegotiate something that they
don't want to burden themselveswith because they also want to
make the batch of the goodsfaster, they also tell you
(09:20):
technical perspective on theirside and you need to translate
it to the management.
So this way you learn thetechnology.
It's very funny a lot of termsin garment construction I know
in chinese or english, but notin russian yeah, well, you know,
everything you're saying is howI teach, how truly the path
(09:43):
should be that.
Yeah, true experience.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
You have to.
You have to know how things aremade, you have to know how the
players are, and a woman told me100 years ago when I was
working in media you would neveropen up a clothing store if you
didn't know how to shop.
So you have to understand howthings are made, how they're
bought, how the budgets are,what they're looking for, how to
(10:07):
design into something that yourcustomer will actually buy.
And even going back to theconstruction of how the factory
makes it, what their constraintsare, knowing that, okay, if I
want this, but the factory, Iknow that it's going to be so,
so hard for the factory to do it.
Then I know that my cost, mylabor costs, will go up.
(10:29):
So I need to be creative, tocome up with a different way to
have something unique about theproduct without having to have
them jump through hoops of doingan inside seam or this kind of
hardware or this kind of mold,because I think a lot of
designers on the other side whoare so so far from the
(10:49):
production line have no ideaeven going back to the people
who are making it and how todeal with the people in charge
of the people who are making ithow they need to translate
what's been sent to them andit's, by the time it gets to the
person making it, it's like thefifth translation of the actual
directions, the actualdirections.
(11:12):
So I think, knowing what you do, I think it became probably a
superpower of okay.
After my one year here, I'mlike a million miles ahead of
everybody else who'd ever wantto get into fashion.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I didn't really think that way, but at that time,
when I was working in supplychain, I realized that the
experience that I'm getting it'svery valuable and it will be
valuable in my career, becauseit is really funny being always
sort of unsatisfied by what I'mdoing creatively.
(11:42):
I was jumping from company tocompany in supply chain and when
I finally realized that I needto do something really creative,
I started doing styling andphotography fashion photography
and at the very beginning thegig flow wasn't very stable.
So I found a daytime job at aboutique.
(12:04):
So I ended up working in retail.
So I pretty much witnessed thewhole cycle from design because
at some point I was also workingat a factory a small factory
which worked with designerbrands and I saw the whole
design process.
I was helping them find theright fabric, the right trims,
(12:26):
accessories, then I supervisedthe production process,
something that I already learnedby them and eventually I ended
up working in a boutique where Idid visual merchandising,
styling, photo shoots andcreating direction for the
boutique itself.
So, yeah, I went through prettymuch all the areas.
(12:50):
Oh, I couldn't say the entiresupply chain, because it ends in
the store, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
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How did you take all that atthat point of recognizing all of
that and then end up on thedesign side because and then
have people trust that you'recapable of doing the design side
Because currently well,currently working for a brand
(14:48):
like Jump From Paper is sowildly creative and wildly out
sustain the same DNA that youprobably have a lot of creative
(15:12):
freedom but a ton of constraints, because you know and I think a
lot of people don't even knowthat Jump From Paper happens to
be a Chinese brand.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I think they don't.
Yeah, I'm a creative director.
I am managing the design team,I'm responsible for the bigger
picture and making sure thatwhatever products we are doing,
or a photo shoot or a campaign,it all follows the main
direction of the brand.
(15:44):
That the brand evolves, yet itkeeps its DNA.
Okay, so how I got to thisposition?
That the brand evolves, yet itkeeps its DNA.
So how I got to this position?
Let's roll back to when Ibecame the photographer.
Actually, photography was myteenage years hobby and it was
(16:07):
the first thing that I decidedto try turn into a job when I
was done with the supply chain,and for a while I really enjoyed
it because you are able tocreate something new and you are
able to give a brand whichcomes to you maybe a different
touch, your interpretation, andsometimes you even or at least I
(16:28):
noticed that I started givingthem an advice not only about
how to present themselves, butalso about their creative
direction.
At some point I felt that I canactually, with my experience at
supply chain and productdevelopment, I can potentially
(16:50):
help this brand at the stage ofthe collection development, but
they come to me only to as aphotographer, even though I was
doing production for photoshoots and creative direction
for fashion image.
You know there is also thatdirection.
Yeah, it's already too latebecause the merchandise is
already done, produced andsometimes we would shoot not
(17:14):
just samples, it could be the,the bulk products already.
So I got this idea that I couldpotentially work with brands at
the earlier stage of productdevelopment, not only when when
they need to do a photo shootingand also, to be honest, at some
point I felt that photographyas a creative medium also
(17:34):
stopped satisfying.
Yes, because in commercialphotography it's very easy to
get burned out because it'sabout the product.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Because at the end of the day, as a creative, once
you realize that if your productisn't selling, it's not so sexy
, and then the whole processbecomes really, then it no
longer becomes a creativeprocess, then it becomes
something arduous and then youstart thinking, okay, where is
this going to go?
Is anyone going to buy it?
And you learn very quickly thatit's more about business than
(18:09):
about the process of beingcreative absolutely, absolutely
yeah, and because I understoodwhat the final point of each
customer's journey was.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, it's kind of when you break down the
process and there is no mysteryanymore and it's all super clear
to you.
So, okay, then you startlooking for something new and I
was thinking about working withBrent and his creative director
for the product for a while.
(18:43):
The final point, the tippingpoint of this, the lifetime
significance and sort of adecision was the Shanghai
lockdown 2022, I think it wasthe first time they actually
enforced the lockdown, becausethe entire world went through
lockdowns during the first yearof the pandemic, but in China
(19:06):
they managed to keep it undercontrol more or less, and in
2022 probably they felt like itwas the time to get a better
grip over this, and maybe forthem, they thought it was the
thing that they were supposed toat the time, and so I was
initially hired at my house andyou start thinking a lot in
(19:30):
confinement.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Like what would you like to do when you like is
going?
Obviously, at that point itwasn't going much further.
I mean, you're literally in oneplace and I found this school.
It's called European Instituteof Design.
Yeah, it's called europeaninstitute of design.
(19:52):
Yeah, it's like eid eid.
Originally it's an italianschool and with time they
expanded through italy and tospain and even brazil, and I
really liked their approach.
I was following them for quitesome time and I really liked
their approach to education, totheir curriculum.
It was quite creative in myopinion.
(20:13):
So I found creative directionmaster's program, which I
thought.
I mean I looked at my finances,I looked at the cost which
would entail and, yeah, Ithought it could work.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You said, why not, let's do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is that when you had moved toSpain and took the class and
then you decided to go back toChina after you got that degree?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, it wasn't that fast because the application
takes quite some time and then Ineed to apply for visa and when
I arrive, like there is a oneyear residence permit etc.
But yeah, eventually, early2023, I moved to spain and I got
my degree in creative directionand by the end of my studies I
(21:07):
found this job here in Shanghai.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And what do you think they would have hired you
without that creative degree,the degree that you got?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
They absolutely wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Isn't that interesting.
But it's so fascinating that,depending what country like in
the US, in my opinion you needto have a first degree, you need
to have a BA, but in terms ofanything else, people aren't so
concerned about the degree youhave, because your work
(21:38):
experience will speak for itself.
But I know for a fact in Chinayou need to be certified in
whatever you're going to bedoing in order to prove that
they're hiring someone who knowshow to do it, and you and I
both know that to be a creativedirector, yes, it's important to
have a degree, but it's on thego.
Just like you said before, it'son the go.
Training is really how you endup becoming really good at it.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah.
However, I agree this like okay.
First of all, they didn'treally look into the degree.
They looked at the school.
I'm sure they Googled theschool when they looked at my CV
.
They checked out the school andit's a good school.
It has quite a good rankinginternationally.
But I'm also happy that I had alot of good experience,
(22:28):
education.
I think it's possible in theareas where the technical side
of the field you're working inis not that important, or you
can actually learn it on the gohow you can do with photography,
with lighting, with fashionimage, with styling.
However, when you talk aboutproduct development, let's say
(22:51):
garment construction, it takestime.
It takes time, actual physicalpractice.
So if we talk about fashiondesign, I mean you have to do
sewing to become a fashiondesigner.
Okay, you can draw, but okay,then you need to practice
drawing, you have to master amedium, and if this medium
(23:17):
requires learning bodyproportions, I don't know
garment construction, et cetera,Right right right.
Perhaps you need like maybe nota BA, but you need like strong
academic base, Right, yeah, Itotally agree.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I mean I think the way you handled it was pretty
thoughtful and like it madesense to throw yourself into
China, learn how the back endand get that degree and then go
back because now you have thebenefits of both.
What has the experience beenworking for a brand like this?
Because it's a fabulous brand.
(23:54):
It really, really is, and I'mso excited I mean obviously
excited that we have you, butthe fact that you're also here
representing that brand, becauseit's a really when Jump From
Paper came out, I think a lot ofpeople were kind of blown away
that the design is almost a coolconcept of, you know, having
the black outline and having theproduct with 3D, with the
(24:23):
pastel colors and the brightpops of color.
How has that been working for abrand that has such strong DNA?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, when I was thinking of working for them, of
going back to China andstarting to work for the brand,
I kind of mapped out a directionin which I would be interested
to lead this brand and I made,let's say, a simple PPT and I
(24:55):
showed it to the bosses and Iasked are you interested in this
way?
Would you like to go this?
I also created in Photoshopcreated, it's a big word.
I did some like visualizationof the product which looks,
let's say, a little morefashionable, a little more
modern, a little.
(25:17):
A lot of people think that weare a gift brand yep, and that
was one one of the challenges,uh, which I took very personally
, is making the brand look as afashion brand, like access to
this, fashion brands, ratherthan a gift brand.
So I tried to create someproduct which would look as a
fashion brand, like too deep,but a fashion brand, and they
(25:41):
liked it.
So to me it was like a you know, green flag, green light, that
I can experiment, I can try toimplement my vision and since,
as a photographer, I was acommercial photographer, there
is nothing wrong with that.
I mean, there are, likephotography artists and there
are commercial photographers,and to me it was a good
(26:05):
experience, a good way to learnhow to work with different
customers.
What is their product, what istheir market, what is their
target audience and how do Iadjust the photo shoots, their
fashion image, to fit thatcategory?
So I am used to understandingdifferent perspectives.
How do I adjust the photoshoots, their fashion image, to
(26:27):
fit that category?
So I am used to understandingdifferent perspectives and
playing along.
So for me it was more like okay,I just got my degree and I have
a wonderful opportunity andbrand with some history where I
can apply it, and they are evenopen to change.
Wasn't it wonderful?
I mean, it was a greatopportunity, right, wow?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I think that's I mean .
Fortunately, jump from paper isa semi-young brand, it's not
like it's a fashion house per se, and I think they were really
fortunate to have someone likeyou come in to take the
aesthetic that, yes, it totallyskews young, it skews kid
because of how it is designedand I apologize, I said 3D
(27:11):
before, I meant 2D and I thinkthat's a really interesting take
and a huge opportunity toexpand the brand's customer base
and saying like hold on, we'vegot everybody's attention.
We can actually expand ourmarket share and it's not just
for cutesy girls per se.
We can make this look a lotmore I don't want to say elegant
, but make it look a lot morecommercialized.
(27:32):
So it's not just meant forsomeone who is perceived looking
for a product that is for ayounger audience.
So I think that was a reallyclever on your part and I think
they're really fortunate to haveyou.
Truly, oleg, I want to thank youfor being here today.
I am so grateful for sharingyour story and explaining your
(27:55):
incredible journey from Russiato China, to Spain, back to
China.
I can't believe you even wantedto go back to China after all
that, but I think once you getthat bug, once you get that bug
of like.
Okay, I might fit in more inanother country than I do in my
own country, which is which is awhole other conversation but I
can't wait to see thecollections that you put out and
(28:18):
see the evolution of the brand,because, again, they they're so
super lucky to have you.
Oleg, how can we find you andfollow you and learn more about
Jump From Paper, the brand?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Okay, well, first of all, the new collection is
already out, so the new creativedirection under my guidance has
already been put into force andyou can go to jump from
papercom to shop for our newpieces, also jump from paper.
That's our instagram and mypersonal instagram, if anyone is
(28:51):
interested.
It's chabataryov photo, I willmake sure that it's there.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You should, you should change it to cool Russian
photographer.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I know, I know, but my Instagram is pretty dormant
because it was mostly dedicatedto photography before and I
haven't really found a new Idon't know a new angle to it,
right, because I work as acreative director for a brand.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
And that's where all your creative juices are going.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Oh, my gosh, oleg, thank you, thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Thank you, Emily, so much.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
And if this medium requires learning body
proportions, I don't knowgarment construction et cetera,
right right right.
Perhaps you need like maybe nota BA, but you need like strong
academic base.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the
podcast, with your host, EmilyBlumenthal, handbag industry
expert and the handbag fairygodmother.
Each week, we uncover thestories behind the handbags we
love, from the iconic brands andtop designers to the creativity
, craftsmanship and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector or simply passionate
(00:37):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Seat to it all.
Welcome.
Welcome, Oleg Chepiktyov fromJump From Paper.
Creative Director of Jump FromPaper.
Welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast.
(00:59):
Lovely to have a friendlyRussian in China, so thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Hi Emily, Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So that's quite the journey.
China, russia, russia, china,you've boppity-bopped all over
the place, haven't you?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, there was also Spain for a year in between, so
I'm just curious how far backcan I go?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We're going all the way back Because, honestly,
especially at the time where youwere born and we'd spoken about
this before post-wall falling,post-communism, the post-Ruble
going up and down, yeah, yeah,yeah.
You know, your experience wouldbe very different than someone
(01:44):
who would have been born even 10years before you in Russia.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Right.
Yeah, it's interesting that youtouched the subject of the
economy in general.
Okay, so we're going way, wayback.
When I graduated, first of all,I worked in the fashion
industry for a very long timeMore or less I think almost 15
years, less than 15 years and mymajor at the university was
(02:09):
international relations, isn't?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
that funny.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
But you know, it was funny when I was delivering my
thesis upon graduation because Idecided back then I was already
very interested in fashion, andinternational relations is a
very vast area.
I mean, there is, apart frompolitics and diplomacy, there is
such thing as culturaldiplomacy, soft power, something
(02:34):
which is your country very goodat.
Yes, and I thought that if Iwas already interested in the
subject, why won't I write mythesis about it?
And I was exploring the subjectof how role of China was
changing in the midst of 2008economic financial crisis,
(02:57):
because it hit the United Statesfirst and then slowly it
started affecting othercountries, and in China I think
it was particularly challenging,probably the year 2009, the
following year, because theoverseas market probably at that
point wasn't so stable and theystarted redirecting production
(03:18):
for the domestic market.
What I did?
I pretty much studied themarket and the country where I
relocated after graduation andmaybe we could roll back a
little bit a little more why Iwas interested in fashion.
It's very interesting because Inever lost my interest to
(03:40):
politics and just overall this.
I don't know global, globalaffairs, both cultural and
political and financial,economic, but I just really like
this bohemian allure of fashion, art and basically all my
friends were.
The majority of my friends backin uni were either studying
(04:04):
architecture or fashion orgraphic design, so I was just
hanging out with them and Ithought that I wanted to work in
fashion just because I likedbeing around these people, and
my first step was studying howChina was coping with the
challenges which brought by the2008 crisis.
(04:24):
So I did my first research andafter I graduated, I went to
China and I started looking fora job in fashion industry.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That must have been tough, not knowing how to speak
the language, because there'scertain countries that are
really prohibitive.
If you don't know the language.
In Europe you can get away withit Almost in most places you
could.
But once you hit China, onceyou hit Russia, if you don't
speak the language, you are very, very limited with what you can
(04:58):
do, other than being some sortof sad translator for people who
want to come in to teach them.
So to jump on in, especially inChina, and then to have to
learn the language pretty muchovernight, and then insert
yourself into the people and theculture and then say, by the
(05:18):
way, hire me because I'minterested in your economic
situation and, by the way,fashion too.
It's kind of a tough sell.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah, well, you know it's easier for Chinese
people to learn English than forforeigners to learn Chinese.
It's a very, very complexlanguage.
I mean, the grammar is notsuper hard, but you need to
learn a lot of characters.
Yes, and you need to say thingsthe way they say it Because,
(05:51):
for instance, if you makeliteral translation from Russian
into English, people willprobably understand you, but if
you do the same with Chinese,there is a very big chance that
they will not understand you.
So, yeah, but actually when Iwas at the uni, I was studying
Chinese.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Okay, so you had some basic fundamentals.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Very, very basic.
It's not the kind of languagewhich you can learn at a decent
level.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Unless you're there.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, yeah.
And when I came to China andpeople were like my foreign
friends were saying simplephrases like telling the taxi
driver don't left here, I wasreally impressed.
I was like, wow, you reallyspeak it.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, I mean, when I was living in Russia, the taxis
that we had there were justrandom people, that you would
just stick your arm out and youknow as they roll down their
window.
And then you'd have this wholediscussion of Skolkostoyt, how
much, how much, and you staywhere you are.
And because there's no leftturns.
Going up and down the streetyou would see everything twice
(06:55):
because you'd have to go to thevery, very end and then go all
the way around.
So you know like and this evenpredated having phones so if you
were in the car with someoneshady, you should hope like that
at least they had drank enoughthat you could get out at the
stoplight that they wouldn'tnotice.
So it was oh my god, it's alwaysan adventure when you're in a
(07:15):
different country.
So you get to china, you're inthis situation.
How did you start insertingyourself into the fashion scene
there to?
Say like okay, I can contribute.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, a lot of people who work in, let's say, experts
who made their career infashion in China.
Many of them actually don'thave education in fashion and
they have some education whichallows them to I don't know be
(07:48):
able to do some office work andgrow Right, right, right.
But areas like supply chain,retail yeah, at least these two.
This is areas where you can getan entry-level job and start
(08:10):
growing.
The most impressive case of aperson without education and
fashion who made it big was afriend of mine.
I think he worked as a salesassistant for Prada first and
then he moved to Marc.
Jacobs, and one of the toppositions that he got to was
like global retail director forMarc Jacobs.
The options which I had weremostly in supply chain.
(08:30):
And since I spoke some Mandarinand over the time was over the
first year living in China I got, I improved my vocabulary.
I wouldn't say I was fluent,but I was able to I don't know
do basic communication and as aresult, I got my first job as
(08:52):
sort of interpreter, slashmanager.
And there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And I was learning the supply chain basics, how we
communicate with the factory.
Construction details, technicaldetails.
So you need to learn how toexplain technical part to the
factory.
And if the factory tries tonegotiate something that they
don't want to burden themselveswith because they also want to
make the batch of the goodsfaster, they also tell you
(09:20):
technical perspective on theirside and you need to translate
it to the management.
So this way you learn thetechnology.
It's very funny a lot of termsin garment construction I know
in chinese or english, but notin russian yeah, well, you know,
everything you're saying is howI teach, how truly the path
(09:43):
should be that.
Yeah, true experience.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
You have to.
You have to know how things aremade, you have to know how the
players are, and a woman told me100 years ago when I was
working in media you would neveropen up a clothing store if you
didn't know how to shop.
So you have to understand howthings are made, how they're
bought, how the budgets are,what they're looking for, how to
(10:07):
design into something that yourcustomer will actually buy.
And even going back to theconstruction of how the factory
makes it, what their constraintsare, knowing that, okay, if I
want this, but the factory, Iknow that it's going to be so,
so hard for the factory to do it.
Then I know that my cost, mylabor costs, will go up.
(10:29):
So I need to be creative, tocome up with a different way to
have something unique about theproduct without having to have
them jump through hoops of doingan inside seam or this kind of
hardware or this kind of mold,because I think a lot of
designers on the other side whoare so so far from the
(10:49):
production line have no ideaeven going back to the people
who are making it and how todeal with the people in charge
of the people who are making ithow they need to translate
what's been sent to them andit's, by the time it gets to the
person making it, it's like thefifth translation of the actual
directions, the actualdirections.
(11:12):
So I think, knowing what you do, I think it became probably a
superpower of okay.
After my one year here, I'mlike a million miles ahead of
everybody else who'd ever wantto get into fashion.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I didn't really think that way, but at that time,
when I was working in supplychain, I realized that the
experience that I'm getting it'svery valuable and it will be
valuable in my career, becauseit is really funny being always
sort of unsatisfied by what I'mdoing creatively.
(11:42):
I was jumping from company tocompany in supply chain and when
I finally realized that I needto do something really creative,
I started doing styling andphotography fashion photography
and at the very beginning thegig flow wasn't very stable.
So I found a daytime job at aboutique.
(12:04):
So I ended up working in retail.
So I pretty much witnessed thewhole cycle from design because
at some point I was also workingat a factory a small factory
which worked with designerbrands and I saw the whole
design process.
I was helping them find theright fabric, the right trims,
(12:26):
accessories, then I supervisedthe production process,
something that I already learnedby them and eventually I ended
up working in a boutique where Idid visual merchandising,
styling, photo shoots andcreating direction for the
boutique itself.
So, yeah, I went through prettymuch all the areas.
(12:50):
Oh, I couldn't say the entiresupply chain, because it ends in
the store, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
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How did you take all that atthat point of recognizing all of
that and then end up on thedesign side because and then
have people trust that you'recapable of doing the design side
Because currently well,currently working for a brand
(14:48):
like Jump From Paper is sowildly creative and wildly out
sustain the same DNA that youprobably have a lot of creative
(15:12):
freedom but a ton of constraints, because you know and I think a
lot of people don't even knowthat Jump From Paper happens to
be a Chinese brand.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I think they don't.
Yeah, I'm a creative director.
I am managing the design team,I'm responsible for the bigger
picture and making sure thatwhatever products we are doing,
or a photo shoot or a campaign,it all follows the main
direction of the brand.
(15:44):
That the brand evolves, yet itkeeps its DNA.
Okay, so how I got to thisposition?
That the brand evolves, yet itkeeps its DNA.
So how I got to this position?
Let's roll back to when Ibecame the photographer.
Actually, photography was myteenage years hobby and it was
(16:07):
the first thing that I decidedto try turn into a job when I
was done with the supply chain,and for a while I really enjoyed
it because you are able tocreate something new and you are
able to give a brand whichcomes to you maybe a different
touch, your interpretation, andsometimes you even or at least I
(16:28):
noticed that I started givingthem an advice not only about
how to present themselves, butalso about their creative
direction.
At some point I felt that I canactually, with my experience at
supply chain and productdevelopment, I can potentially
(16:50):
help this brand at the stage ofthe collection development, but
they come to me only to as aphotographer, even though I was
doing production for photoshoots and creative direction
for fashion image.
You know there is also thatdirection.
Yeah, it's already too latebecause the merchandise is
already done, produced andsometimes we would shoot not
(17:14):
just samples, it could be the,the bulk products already.
So I got this idea that I couldpotentially work with brands at
the earlier stage of productdevelopment, not only when when
they need to do a photo shootingand also, to be honest, at some
point I felt that photographyas a creative medium also
(17:34):
stopped satisfying.
Yes, because in commercialphotography it's very easy to
get burned out because it'sabout the product.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Because at the end of the day, as a creative, once
you realize that if your productisn't selling, it's not so sexy
, and then the whole processbecomes really, then it no
longer becomes a creativeprocess, then it becomes
something arduous and then youstart thinking, okay, where is
this going to go?
Is anyone going to buy it?
And you learn very quickly thatit's more about business than
(18:09):
about the process of beingcreative absolutely, absolutely
yeah, and because I understoodwhat the final point of each
customer's journey was.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, it's kind of when you break down the
process and there is no mysteryanymore and it's all super clear
to you.
So, okay, then you startlooking for something new and I
was thinking about working withBrent and his creative director
for the product for a while.
(18:43):
The final point, the tippingpoint of this, the lifetime
significance and sort of adecision was the Shanghai
lockdown 2022, I think it wasthe first time they actually
enforced the lockdown, becausethe entire world went through
lockdowns during the first yearof the pandemic, but in China
(19:06):
they managed to keep it undercontrol more or less, and in
2022 probably they felt like itwas the time to get a better
grip over this, and maybe forthem, they thought it was the
thing that they were supposed toat the time, and so I was
initially hired at my house andyou start thinking a lot in
(19:30):
confinement.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Like what would you like to do when you like is
going?
Obviously, at that point itwasn't going much further.
I mean, you're literally in oneplace and I found this school.
It's called European Instituteof Design.
Yeah, it's called europeaninstitute of design.
(19:52):
Yeah, it's like eid eid.
Originally it's an italianschool and with time they
expanded through italy and tospain and even brazil, and I
really liked their approach.
I was following them for quitesome time and I really liked
their approach to education, totheir curriculum.
It was quite creative in myopinion.
(20:13):
So I found creative directionmaster's program, which I
thought.
I mean I looked at my finances,I looked at the cost which
would entail and, yeah, Ithought it could work.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You said, why not, let's do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is that when you had moved toSpain and took the class and
then you decided to go back toChina after you got that degree?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, it wasn't that fast because the application
takes quite some time and then Ineed to apply for visa and when
I arrive, like there is a oneyear residence permit etc.
But yeah, eventually, early2023, I moved to spain and I got
my degree in creative directionand by the end of my studies I
(21:07):
found this job here in Shanghai.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And what do you think they would have hired you
without that creative degree,the degree that you got?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
They absolutely wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Isn't that interesting.
But it's so fascinating that,depending what country like in
the US, in my opinion you needto have a first degree, you need
to have a BA, but in terms ofanything else, people aren't so
concerned about the degree youhave, because your work
(21:38):
experience will speak for itself.
But I know for a fact in Chinayou need to be certified in
whatever you're going to bedoing in order to prove that
they're hiring someone who knowshow to do it, and you and I
both know that to be a creativedirector, yes, it's important to
have a degree, but it's on thego.
Just like you said before, it'son the go.
Training is really how you endup becoming really good at it.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah.
However, I agree this like okay.
First of all, they didn'treally look into the degree.
They looked at the school.
I'm sure they Googled theschool when they looked at my CV
.
They checked out the school andit's a good school.
It has quite a good rankinginternationally.
But I'm also happy that I had alot of good experience,
(22:28):
education.
I think it's possible in theareas where the technical side
of the field you're working inis not that important, or you
can actually learn it on the gohow you can do with photography,
with lighting, with fashionimage, with styling.
However, when you talk aboutproduct development, let's say
(22:51):
garment construction, it takestime.
It takes time, actual physicalpractice.
So if we talk about fashiondesign, I mean you have to do
sewing to become a fashiondesigner.
Okay, you can draw, but okay,then you need to practice
drawing, you have to master amedium, and if this medium
(23:17):
requires learning bodyproportions, I don't know
garment construction, et cetera,Right right right.
Perhaps you need like maybe nota BA, but you need like strong
academic base, Right, yeah, Itotally agree.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I mean I think the way you handled it was pretty
thoughtful and like it madesense to throw yourself into
China, learn how the back endand get that degree and then go
back because now you have thebenefits of both.
What has the experience beenworking for a brand like this?
Because it's a fabulous brand.
(23:54):
It really, really is, and I'mso excited I mean obviously
excited that we have you, butthe fact that you're also here
representing that brand, becauseit's a really when Jump From
Paper came out, I think a lot ofpeople were kind of blown away
that the design is almost a coolconcept of, you know, having
the black outline and having theproduct with 3D, with the
(24:23):
pastel colors and the brightpops of color.
How has that been working for abrand that has such strong DNA?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, when I was thinking of working for them, of
going back to China andstarting to work for the brand,
I kind of mapped out a directionin which I would be interested
to lead this brand and I made,let's say, a simple PPT and I
(24:55):
showed it to the bosses and Iasked are you interested in this
way?
Would you like to go this?
I also created in Photoshopcreated, it's a big word.
I did some like visualizationof the product which looks,
let's say, a little morefashionable, a little more
modern, a little.
(25:17):
A lot of people think that weare a gift brand yep, and that
was one one of the challenges,uh, which I took very personally
, is making the brand look as afashion brand, like access to
this, fashion brands, ratherthan a gift brand.
So I tried to create someproduct which would look as a
fashion brand, like too deep,but a fashion brand, and they
(25:41):
liked it.
So to me it was like a you know, green flag, green light, that
I can experiment, I can try toimplement my vision and since,
as a photographer, I was acommercial photographer, there
is nothing wrong with that.
I mean, there are, likephotography artists and there
are commercial photographers,and to me it was a good
(26:05):
experience, a good way to learnhow to work with different
customers.
What is their product, what istheir market, what is their
target audience and how do Iadjust the photo shoots, their
fashion image, to fit thatcategory?
So I am used to understandingdifferent perspectives.
How do I adjust the photoshoots, their fashion image, to
(26:27):
fit that category?
So I am used to understandingdifferent perspectives and
playing along.
So for me it was more like okay,I just got my degree and I have
a wonderful opportunity andbrand with some history where I
can apply it, and they are evenopen to change.
Wasn't it wonderful?
I mean, it was a greatopportunity, right, wow?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I think that's I mean .
Fortunately, jump from paper isa semi-young brand, it's not
like it's a fashion house per se, and I think they were really
fortunate to have someone likeyou come in to take the
aesthetic that, yes, it totallyskews young, it skews kid
because of how it is designedand I apologize, I said 3D
(27:11):
before, I meant 2D and I thinkthat's a really interesting take
and a huge opportunity toexpand the brand's customer base
and saying like hold on, we'vegot everybody's attention.
We can actually expand ourmarket share and it's not just
for cutesy girls per se.
We can make this look a lotmore I don't want to say elegant
, but make it look a lot morecommercialized.
(27:32):
So it's not just meant forsomeone who is perceived looking
for a product that is for ayounger audience.
So I think that was a reallyclever on your part and I think
they're really fortunate to haveyou.
Truly, oleg, I want to thank youfor being here today.
I am so grateful for sharingyour story and explaining your
(27:55):
incredible journey from Russiato China, to Spain, back to
China.
I can't believe you even wantedto go back to China after all
that, but I think once you getthat bug, once you get that bug
of like.
Okay, I might fit in more inanother country than I do in my
own country, which is which is awhole other conversation but I
can't wait to see thecollections that you put out and
(28:18):
see the evolution of the brand,because, again, they they're so
super lucky to have you.
Oleg, how can we find you andfollow you and learn more about
Jump From Paper, the brand?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Okay, well, first of all, the new collection is
already out, so the new creativedirection under my guidance has
already been put into force andyou can go to jump from
papercom to shop for our newpieces, also jump from paper.
That's our instagram and mypersonal instagram, if anyone is
(28:51):
interested.
It's chabataryov photo, I willmake sure that it's there.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You should, you should change it to cool Russian
photographer.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I know, I know, but my Instagram is pretty dormant
because it was mostly dedicatedto photography before and I
haven't really found a new Idon't know a new angle to it,
right, because I work as acreative director for a brand.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
And that's where all your creative juices are going.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Oh, my gosh, oleg, thank you, thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Thank you, Emily, so much.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single
platform at Handbag Designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
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