October 28, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when you walk away from Marc Jacobs and Calvin Klein—and bet on your own name instead? In this episode, Joy Gryson shares the bold pivot from corporate fashion to building a modern handbag brand that exploded in Korea and won a loyal global following.
She reveals how consulting bridged the leap, why she and her husband chose small Italian workshops over legacy factories, and how a park meetup with Steven Alan unlocked their sales pipeline. From the “It Bag” craze to mastering retail math and international strategy, Joy offers the real roadmap for scaling without selling out.
✨ 3 Takeaways:
- Learn the math behind the magic — taste gets you noticed, but knowing costs, margins, and calendars keeps you in business.
- Localize to globalize — success in Korea wasn’t luck; it was built on tailoring silhouettes, service, and merchandising to the market.
- Bet on your own name, strategically — consulting, smart sourcing, and timing made her leap sustainable, not reckless.
Our Guest:
Joy Gryson is the founder and creative director of Gryson, Olivia Harris, and TriBeCa by Joy Gryson—brands known for their sophisticated balance of modern design and timeless craftsmanship. Before launching her own labels, she honed her skills at Marc Jacobs, Calvin Klein, and Coach, gaining a deep understanding of both design and business that would later define her entrepreneurial path. Her handbags have been carried by women around the world who appreciate understated luxury built with intention.
Host Emily Blumenthal is a handbag industry expert, author of Handbag Designer 101, and founder of The Handbag Awards. Known as the “Handbag Fairy Godmother,” Emily also teaches entrepreneurship at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She is dedicated to celebrating creativity, craftsmanship, and the art of building iconic handbag brands.
Find Handbag Designer 101 Merch, HBD101 Masterclass, one-on-one sessions, and opportunities to book Emily Blumenthal as a speaker at emilyblumenthal.com.
🔖 Hashtags:
#HandbagDesigner101 #JoyGryson #FashionBusiness #ItBagEra #Entrepreneurship #HandbagDesign #BrandBuilding #WomenInBusiness #IndependentDesigner #MarcJac
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What have we just done?
Like we both walked away frombig money, big salaries,
security.
Well, as much security as youcan get from a day job, but
security enough.
And then to be like, what?
Like, what are we supposed to donow?
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Oh, exactly.
Yes.
That was definitely how we felt.
We were comfortable.
We certainly not wealthy at all.
So like it was definitely notsomething that we were just
resting on and just, you know,no big deal.
It was definitely a big deal.
But I think at that point, I hadso much faith in Pete and so
much faith in our abilities thatI think that I just went in.
(00:35):
I'm a very positive person tobegin with.
So I think I just kind of wentin with as much positivity as I
could.
And fear, of course, set in, butnot nearly as overwhelming as
maybe later down the line.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer One and One,
the podcast with your host,Emily Blumenthal, Handbag
Industry Expert, and the HandbagPerry Godmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love,
from the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(01:10):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Joy Gryson, the elusiveJoy Gyson, as I've been saying,
to Handbag Designer 101 thepodcast.
I had your other half, but justquietly, I told him don't be
(01:31):
insulted if I'm more excited tospeak to Joy than to you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
I'm sure he's kind of used to that a little bit.
So uh hopefully he was kindabout it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
No, no, no.
We we had a laugh.
But, you know, you are one ofthe brands, essentially, that
was part of the massive rise ofthe independent designer, truly
within the scope of theevolution of handbags.
Like, you know, as someone whofashions themselves as an
(02:01):
unofficial handbag historian,and you know, if we were to go
back to the earlier 1920s, 30s,40s, like most of the
independent brands per se wererun by men except for a couple,
and they were very old schooland very industrial, and it was
very much for, you know, theladies.
(02:22):
And then as things progressedand life changed and women went
back to work and all that goodstuff.
The first real existence ofdesigners being independent and
making their mark was in the2000s.
So it's pretty cool, at least tome and everybody else listening,
as I can say, that Droy Grysonas a brand is definitely part of
(02:48):
that lexicon.
I mean, I'm monostationing here,but I that's these are all cold
hard facts.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Thank you very much.
Um, first of all, thank you,Emily, for having me on.
I'm I'm really quite honored andI'm really excited and um I'm
excited that you had Peter onfirst and now you have me.
I really appreciate that.
It's really kind words for youto say.
You know, it's very funnybecause Peter and I were very
much in it, and so, and becausewe were so busy, and we're just
(03:14):
I'd like to think that Pete andI are a little bit more on the
humbler side.
So we actually we don't reallyhear people talking about us
like that, to be honest.
We just really love what we do,and we feel very fortunate and
lucky to have had the experienceand the success and a lot of
pitfalls, but success,especially at that time of
(03:35):
launching.
But thank you very much.
That's a very kind introduction.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Well, it's it's you know, we'll get to you in your
background, but you know, yourclaim to fame prior to all this
would be your time at MarcJacobs.
And I know you worked at CalvinKlein.
I know that's where you andPeter met, but those famous,
famous, famous handbags with theheavy hardware and the
(04:02):
silhouettes and that all, andand obviously, of course, Marc
Jacobs is part of it, but youwere there.
That was you, essentially.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
That was myself and and a bunch of other amazing
talents.
I was very fortunate and going alittle bit back into history,
but one of the designers that Iworked with at Liz Claiborne
back in the day, she did sheended up going from a couple of
different companies, ended up atMarc Jacobs.
And when they were looking forum, it was actually a product
(04:31):
development slash design person,she knew that I was in the
search for a job, and and I'dworked with her for a couple of
years, and I was clearly a veryhard worker, and so and so she
thought of me to come in, and soum she really was the catalyst
(04:52):
for everything, and she's andshe's the talent.
I mean, she was she's amazing,and um who's she?
Her name is Emma, Emma Hill.
She's definitely someone that Iwas considered a mentor, and um,
she was there for a while andshe brought me in, and she's the
super talent, and I learned somuch from her, and then she did
end up leaving, and then I kindof took over the spot, and you
(05:16):
know, that's how things kind ofworked out.
So very, very fortunate.
But yeah, I was there for thebeginning of like the mid to
beginning, beginning mid of likethe whole Marc Jacobs collection
craze.
And that's what I came in forinitially was for Marc Jacobs
collection accessories, whichwas all made out of Italy.
That was the heavy hardware.
Oh my god, suede lining, thatwas all those it bags, and to be
(05:41):
there at the time when when itwas on fire was definitely
amazing, but we worked our assesoff.
So, you know, we again we werein it.
So we I I feel like in someways, like I wish I would have
enjoyed more of the thecraziness at the time.
But you know, we and I were verypassionate and we loved what we
did, and we were um in Italy alot, so um, so that was amazing.
(06:05):
And then um we launched Mark byMarc Jacobs, you know, during
our time there, and that justexploded afterwards.
But um a lot of amazing talentat Marc Jacobs.
Mark was at Louis Vuitton at thetime, he was back and forth
quite a bit as well, but yeah,so we had we had an amazing
team.
It was a small team, but it wasa very, very amazing team, and
(06:25):
um, I'm very grateful for mytime there.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
But I mean, you just touched on so many things
because it's impossible for abrand to have a continued rise
of success.
I mean, look, brands could havegood teams and not be
successful, but to hit azeitgeist moment and then have
hit after hit after hit, youneed to have a good team or else
(06:51):
it won't happen.
It won't be consistent.
There won't be a way to keepthings going at that same
cadence, right?
Like you need to have people whoare excited, who are passionate,
especially since anybody whoknows this time of history that
Mark was boppity bopping backand forth.
So, you know, he had to givedirection.
(07:11):
Obviously, his hand was in it,but you can't just say I think
this should be like this andthis should be like that, and
then leave without having a teamthat could execute that vision.
Was it hard?
Yeah, and I and I talked to alot of people who day jobbed
before, and that is always how Itell people if you ever want to
(07:32):
have your own brand, like getpaid to do it for other people,
learn learn the resources, learnthe process, learn peace goods,
learn margin, learn retail math,because all that shit is so
complicated if you don't get it.
Learn how factories work, learnhow factories don't work, and
then go off on your own.
But we had spoken and you saidlike it was never in your bingo
(07:56):
card to have your own brand.
Like, were you so heavily inthis?
Like, I'm working for a greatbrand, I'm working for great
people, this is where I belong.
I'm a I'm a really solidsoldier.
Is that how you saw yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Yes, definitely.
You know, growing up, I alwaysknew it was funny because my
parents remind me of this, whichyou know, I don't I always knew
I wanted to be in fashion, butmy parents reminded me that I
wanted to be a CEO one day,which I don't honestly remember
saying that, but apparently Idid.
Um I definitely had a businessacumen initially.
So I think maybe that's part ofwhere I came from, but I always
(08:31):
was interested in fashion.
But honestly, you know, I workedat major corporations, really,
really large companies, reallystrong brands since day one.
And so, and I really, like yousaid, for me, it was about
learning how to do everythingthat you possibly can to the
best of your ability, you know,watch, listen, and do, and make
(08:53):
your mistakes on someone else'sdime.
Yeah, because we're all gonnamake mistakes and just really
work your butt off.
And back in those days, as youknow, you know, there was no
work-life balance.
It was all no, it was all work.
But honestly, for me and forpeople who really enjoy what
they do, especially when you'reyoung and you're really just a
go-getter, you're you enjoy whatyou're doing.
(09:13):
So for me, I was fine with that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
I didn't have to put me on a plane to Italy.
I'll go.
You know, I'll work all night,I'll do walk around sketching
and work with the factory.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
That's kind of it was a good, it was definitely a
good life.
Actually, funny that youmentioned because the reason I
ended up leaving Marc Jacobs wasactually not necessarily to
start our own company.
It was I had my daughter, I'djust gotten pre I'd gotten
pregnant.
Um, travel, and I was funnybecause my husband was like, I
don't even know how we gotpregnant because I was in Italy
(09:43):
all the time.
So, you know, so that was kindof funny.
Um I mean, you met up once.
I'm sorry, like you met up once,so there was that.
We know that.
Yeah, don't tell Pete, don'tremind Pete of that.
But um, so you know, so I we Iwas traveling a lot prior to
having Olivia, and then I wasdefinitely traveling a little
bit after having Olivia, andthat is when I realized that
(10:07):
this was not sustainable for mylifestyle and for what I wanted
to do with regard to being amother.
And then Peter at the time alsowas kind of in his crossroads of
like what does he want to do inhis future from where he was?
So it was actually kind of likea situation where we were both
thinking, oh, you know, what arewe gonna do?
(10:27):
How are we going to proceed withthe rest of our life as parents?
Because that was obviously thepriority.
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Can I ask you?
So, like Olivia falls out, yougive birth, you're working for
this major company, theexpectations don't stop, the
momentum doesn't stop.
You have Mark Jacobs, Mark byMark.
All of this is essentiallyfalling on your head.
And you know, the interestingthing is having a kind of job
(10:56):
like that, a day job like that,it's not a day job, it's who you
are, it's how you defineyourself.
This is me, the brand can'tsurvive.
And then there's this bizarre,like, oh my God, I have a child.
Like, what like I can onlyimagine your first business trip
must have been in tears, like ona plane, hysterically crying.
(11:16):
Like, should I really be doingthis?
I don't know if I should bedoing this.
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
Yeah, it was really, really hard, even on maternity
leave.
So the smartest thing that notthe smartest thing I've done,
but one of the things that Irealized was when I was going
when I realized when I waspregnant with Olivia, and Emma
had unfortunately already leftthe company, and it came to a
point where I was like, you knowwhat?
I need someone who can come inwho I really trust to be my eyes
(11:44):
and ears and to take thedivision and go with it and know
that I can I feel comfortableand so on and so forth.
So I ended up hiring a closefriend of mine who happened to
be at another company and waslooking to leave for quite some
time.
And she ended up consulting forus while I was on maternity
(12:05):
leave.
But it was great because when Icame back, I was, you know,
working a couple of days, youknow, I was actually doing, I
think I was even on maternityleave, I think I was still
working a little bit onmaternity leave.
Of course you were.
So yeah, so I mean it was it wasnice because I had someone there
who I really trusted, who I knewwho was talented.
So that all worked out.
So that was something that was,thank goodness, a smart thing
that um myself and my boss hadthought of.
(12:27):
And so that made life a loteasier for sure.
And then, yes, when I got back,it was really hard.
And that's where that's when Iand I I think the one time that
really, really I realized thatthis was not gonna work was when
uh sustainable.
Yeah, it was it was like it wasduring, you know, right leading
up to fashion week, and you'rein the office and you're you
(12:48):
know putting together all theselooks, and you have to do things
that need to get done, andyou're literally barely
sleeping, and and I had to goand I had to go, and yes, I had
a team, but like everyone had topitch in.
And I'm not one of those peoplewhere I was like, I'm sitting at
my desk and doing nothing, andeveryone else.
Because of course, our ourbelieve or not, our our team was
tiny, right?
(13:09):
So there wasn't even a lot ofpeople doing that, and honestly,
like I needed to make sure thatthings were done, getting done
correctly, and I am a little bitof a control freak when it comes
to that, and especially whenMark's asking for something, you
need to make sure it's correct,otherwise, he will let you know
that it's not.
So I had to go to the beltfactory in in New York and all
these things, and and I wasthere for hours beyond hours,
(13:30):
and that's when I was like, andmy daughter by that point was
already like a couple like atleast six months to a year old.
And so I knew at that point Iwas like, okay, I'm like, you
know, it's just this is not theright time for me.
So when I left, you know, it wasreally interesting because I
didn't really tell them what wasgoing on.
I just knew that it was time togo.
And I think they thought that Iwas going to another company.
SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
You can't tell people when you have a baby at
that time.
People don't care.
And you know, they're like, oh,great, congrats.
Wow, uh, you look so goodpregnant.
Oh, look at your beautifulpictures.
Okay, so back to me, back to us,back to the collection.
So I almost feel likeunfortunately, for you to have
said, Hey, I miss my child, Ilike nobody would, that wouldn't
(14:11):
even be fathomable.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
You know, I have to say that the the women who were
actually most of the seniorpeople at Mark Jacobs
Accessories and um Mark by MarkReadyware, which we fell under,
they're all women, and one ofthem was a mother of two, or
maybe a mother of one at thetime, maybe.
But like we all, like, you know,we were all at that age where we
(14:34):
were kind of going through it.
And so they understood, but thatwasn't the situation, you know.
I think now the times are somuch better, and it took that
long for, you know, the industryand and the world to understand,
you know, how important it isfor women to be able to be both
in uh realistic situations.
At that time, you know, this wasin the early 2000s.
(14:57):
Clearly, we hadn't gotten thereyet.
So even though my bosses wereunderstanding, it just wasn't
realistic with what needed toget done, and especially with,
you know, just the type of workthat we did, especially having
to travel and getting thingsdone for fashion shows and
market and stuff like that.
It was it was really hard.
I mean, they somehow they seemlike I think they figured it
(15:18):
out.
Not necessarily Mark Jacobs, butjust industry as a whole, it
seems a lot better than it usedto be.
But um, yeah, at that time itwas definitely difficult.
And it's unfortunate.
But you know what?
At the end of the day, clearlyit was meant for meant to be.
And it was and I'm I'm so happythat Peter and I took the leap
of faith to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
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Filled with ingenuity, fun, anda hint of steam, Susanna will
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Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, Barnes and Noble, or
(16:02):
wherever you get your books.
Thanks for your support.
Did you tell Mark personally,like, hey, and did he ask where
you were going?
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
No, he was actually still at Louis Vuitton.
So he was not in the offices.
So no, I spoke to my directreport who was the president of
accessories and mark by mark.
And uh, and you know, she's avery kind woman.
She understood, but I think sheeveryone assumed, like, oh, I'm
going to another company becausethat is the natural inclination.
(16:29):
And I and at that point, I thinkwhat happened was I actually had
a maybe a consulting job at thatpoint.
Like someone wanted to hire meto consult.
Maybe I but I think at thatpoint Peter and I just weren't
even sure.
Like we knew we were gonna startsomething, but we didn't know
exactly what that was gonna be,and we hadn't we hadn't even
like started designing anythingor starting anything.
(16:51):
So for me, it was like it wasright before the summertime, and
it was just the time to say itwas the end of a it was right
after like fashion week, and itwas time to be like, okay, time
to cut the cord before anythingelse happened.
And so that was it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
So you said, All right, I'm calling it, that's
it.
You came home, Peter was home.
Was it one of those like, ohdamn, oh shit, like now what?
Like, what do we do?
Oh my gosh, yeah.
I mean, uh I the silence isdeafening when you're there with
a child who's napping, and thenyou're looking at each other
(17:26):
like, what have we just done?
Like we both walked away frombig money, big salaries,
security.
Well, as much security as youcan get from a day job, but
security enough, and then to belike what, like, what are we
supposed to do now?
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Oh, exactly.
Yes, that was definitely how wefelt.
You know, it the best thing wasthat it was the summertime, so
it made things a little biteasier, and so we got to enjoy
our time with Olivia.
I mean, honestly, it was one ofthe best times because I
actually we have a family beachhouse and I went to go see my
sister there, and I I don't Idon't think I've ever done that
with my sister, just the two ofus.
(18:02):
So that was wonderful.
It was wonderful just to be ableto actually just breathe and
take time.
But of course, I mean, I'veworked my entire life since I
was probably 14, 15 years oldand never stopped working.
So for me, not to work wasreally awkward and weird.
And then, of course, you know,you know, I think part of me
didn't even realize the realramifications of like income
(18:27):
situation.
I mean, like we were, you know,we were comfortable.
We certainly not wealthy at all.
So like it was definitely notsomething that we were just
resting on and just, you know,no big deal.
It was definitely a big deal.
But I think at that point, I hadso much faith in Pete and so
much faith in our abilities thatI think that I just went in.
I'm a very positive person tobegin with.
(18:48):
So I think I just kind of wentin with as much positivity as I
could.
And fear, of course, set in, butnot nearly as overwhelming as
maybe later down the line.
That's crazy.
What did you study, by the way?
So I went to um first I went toAlbany and I did business, and
then I hated business after thefirst semester, and I decided to
(19:10):
do art.
So I decided to do art, be anart major.
And then I realized that the artat Albany was not like the best
thing.
And then so I was like, oh mygosh.
I went into poli sci for like asecond because I did think I
have dreams of maybe being alawyer at one point in my life.
Don't ask.
And then I realized, oh boy,this is like I'm not figuring
anything out here.
So I transferred to FIT.
(19:32):
And because I'd gotten so manycredits in the business and you
know, general requirements, Iwas able to, when I transferred
to FIT, I ended up taking tonsof design classes, actually.
Right.
Like dream classes.
I'm sorry, like dream classes.
Oh my god, oh my god.
Some were dream and some werenot.
I mean, the pattern, you know,pattern making and grading, and
(19:55):
those were not my my special usewhatsoever.
Sewing, I was not glade at.
I mean, I love the learningaspect of and understanding how
to sew, but I was not, I mean,when I had to sew my dress for
my final project, I would tellyou it was not the nice work.
But I did appreciate, I love Ilove architecture, I love
(20:15):
engineering, so which makessense why handbags worked out
well for me.
Right.
Because it's sothree-dimensional.
And I've always been intoarchitecture, so I kind of feel
like somehow the world figuredit out and the stars aligned,
and I did end up being in theright place.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
Um, but I your parents supportive of all this?
Were your parents like you'relike, like, oh, I'm transferring
again.
No, I I'm changing my major.
No, I'm changing my major.
You know what?
I'm just leaving.
Like, I can't do this anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Oh no, my parents are amazing.
They're super, super supportiveabout anything we do.
Uh oh my gosh, yeah.
They they were just like, dowhat you need to know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
When you moved back from Albany, were you living at
home?
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Oh, I was.
Yes.
Was that hard?
Very much so.
Yeah.
But I mean, honestly, like itwas nice because my father
worked, uh, he's a he was adentist and he worked at N by
the NYU buildings.
So we would drive in togetherand he would drop me off.
And so we actually got a lot offather doctor time for two
years.
And it was actually great.
(21:15):
And and and I didn't, I mean, Ididn't what didn't bother me
back then.
I did want to live on campus,but I think you had to live like
a certain mileage away, and wedidn't live that far.
And you know, honestly, I feltbad that I was making them pay
for, you know, an extra year ofschool and so on and so forth.
So I wanted to be respectful ofthat.
And um, no, it was actually, Ikind of enjoyed it.
(21:37):
And I knew that I'd be living inthe city probably for the most
of my adult life afterwards.
So it wasn't a big deal.
I mean, I think the thecultural, the social aspect was
a little bit harder because Iwasn't living on campus, but you
know, it was all good.
And I was very serious.
I was a year older thaneverybody in my grades.
I transferred, so I was and I'doff and I'd had my college
(21:58):
experience.
So for me, this is more aboutwhat am I doing with my life?
I want to start a career now.
So, and I always knew I wantedto be in fashion.
So it actually was the bestthing.
So, yeah.
So I actually studied fashionbuying and merchandising
thinking that I wanted to becomea merchandiser, to be honest.
And then when I was doing allthose credits and learning about
(22:19):
that, what was great about evenfashion buying merchandising was
that you actually needed to takefabric sourcing classes, you had
to take salesmanship classes,you had to take product
development classes, you had totake all these other classes
that you maybe don't think thatyou have to take.
And it was, and it was amazingbecause I know more than most
designers know from a businessstandpoint.
(22:40):
And then from a designperspective, I got to take a lot
of design courses when I wasthere, which was awesome.
And then after I got my firstjob, I ended up going back to
FIT, taking like, you know,adult courses, learning more
about sketching and learningmore about, you know, other
things.
And so it was it was actually ifI had to do it all over again, I
(23:01):
probably wouldn't have done itthat differently, maybe a little
differently, but not thatdifferently.
So I worked out.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
That's I mean FIT is a very funny place, I gotta say.
I mean, having taught there forso long, it is.
It's but it's much like anyuniversity or any college
experience, like it's there forthe taking if you want to get
it, and nobody is going to handit to you, especially being in
New York City.
(23:29):
And I think it seems like you'vebeen very, I don't want to say
fortunate, but you know, rightplace, right time.
But none of that means anythingunless you have a work ethic.
Like unless you're just likedown to grind, down to hustle,
down to make sure that okay, mytime here matters.
I'm gonna get a return oninvestment.
(23:50):
I'm going to be responsible withother people's money.
I'm going to ensure that what Ido has a purpose and the why is
always being answered.
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (23:59):
Yeah.
I mean, I came from a familywhere my my parents have amazing
worth of work ethics.
So I've just by being part ofthe family, you know, you just
see it and you watch it, andthat's just like part of your
DNA after a while, you know?
So for me, it was never aquestion.
And um, I was always a goodstudent in school.
I wasn't like the best, but Iwas always really good.
(24:19):
And if I love the classes, thenforget it.
Like I was, you know, straight Ain those classes.
So um, and then I knew that Iwanted to be in fashion, and I
knew that, you know, the coursesthat I was taking at FIT was
going to help me get to where Iwant to be.
So for me, even though like Ihonestly didn't love the
marketing class for some reason,but you know, I studied my butt
off and could have been theprofessor, just saying.
(24:42):
Yeah, it could have been.
She wasn't so bad.
It just I think you know, I'veobviously I was more interested
in the product development andfabric textiles and and anything
more tactile and more, you know,creative for me.
Obviously, that makes sense.
But yeah, I mean, on the workethic, I mean, like I mentioned
to you before, you know, goingto Marc Jacobs, I knew I'd
worked for somebody who had thenbrought me in because she knew
(25:04):
of my work ethic.
And basically, when I first, myfirst job out of school was at
Liz Claiborne and I reported tofive designers, and they were
all very different from eachother, like night and day, every
single one of them.
But I worked my butt off foreach and every one of them to
the point where like I wasoverdoing stuff that I actually
woke up late one morning becauseI was so exhausted from doing
(25:27):
like someone's expense report,let's say.
And so the office called becausethey were concerned about me
because I hadn't come into theoffice because I was so tired.
I was up till like three in themorning doing it.
Right, right.
It's like, and not that that waswhatever, but it was just it was
just like one of those, and Ididn't mind doing it because I
just honestly like I lovedworking, I loved showing that I
(25:47):
cared, and I was just willing todo whatever I needed to do to
like, you know, further myselfand learn as much as I possibly
could.
So, and so every single job thatI actually had gotten pretty
much was through either one ofthose designers or through
somebody I'd worked with atanother company because they saw
the work ethic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I isn't that amazing.
And I I hate soundinggenerationally old, but there
there is so much to say aboutlike doing things that aren't
within your wheelhouse or withinyour job description or within
what your expectation is.
Like I was hired for design.
Why are you doing an expensereport?
Because that's that becauseyou're doing what it was, right?
(26:31):
Because you want to makeyourself look like a team
player.
So when opportunities come,you'll be the first one to get
it.
And that's that's the only wayyou lock it in.
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
And exactly.
I think there's a there's a fineline between, you know, there
are some people who abuse theirsituation and do things that are
totally inappropriate.
But to me, and the back,especially back in that day,
that was not an unheard of thingto ask.
Of course not.
I was a design assistant, I wasan assistant, so you did pretty
much anything that the designersneeded you to do that was in
(27:02):
their work well realm, whichdoing your own expense reports
was part of their work as well.
So, and they needed to traveland this and that, whatever.
So to me, I did not think thatwas an and and that was normal.
So it wasn't anything like thatwas wrong.
But yeah, when you go in, andespecially this day and age, I
think there's a lot more of likea fine line for things in
(27:22):
people's perspective and minds.
But to me, like it it, I Idefinitely was more like, I'm
gonna do whatever you tell me todo, as long as it's okay with
me, you know, and I'm okay, andyou know, and it's not breaking
any laws, I'm good with that.
So um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
So this, I mean, like, this is like peeling a
design onion.
I'm so excited.
So you're at the summer, youhave this baby, she's cute, you
have a husband, he's like okay,he's cute.
He is, he's sweet, he is, he is,he's tall, which is good because
it's hard to do that when you'reshort, but that's just my
personal opinion.
(28:00):
That's just me offhand.
It's true, because then you'llget short kids, which again,
nothing wrong with just makespeople's lives hard.
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
You know what my mom said about being short?
The one of the benefits of beingshort, because I'm only five,
two, is that you can marry ordate anyone who's short or tall.
It's a lot easier.
And not that you can't whenyou're tall, but it's sometimes
it's a little bit more awkwardor uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
Yeah, well, you know, you are cute too.
So, you know, you've got thatgoing for you.
How to how to Olivia's tallthough, isn't she?
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
You know what?
She was always like 99thpercentile up until about fifth
grade, and then she's verythat's it, average in height.
She's uh five five.
Okay, two, right.
But she, yeah, she's abeautiful, she's beautiful.
She always she looks taller thanshe really is, which is I find
very interesting how that works.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
But anyway, that's an aura.
That's an aura thing.
Oh, I like that.
She's got a tall aura.
Yeah, I mean, I've never mether.
I just assume if you if youmatch the two of you together
from the one time you guys metbetween Italy and every and
China, you know, of himtraveling.
So I I want to ask, like, okay,so you had the summer, it was a
(29:12):
delight.
You finally were like, I canexhale, but then there's always
that kind of like panic inside,like, I don't want to get too
comfortable.
Because if I get toocomfortable, my whole work ethic
is gonna fall in the toilet.
Like my senior year of highschool when everybody else was
like, screw that, I'm incollege.
I think that was my best yearacademically, because I'm like,
(29:33):
oh my God, if I stop working sohard, I'm gonna forget how to
work hard and then I'm gonna bescrewed once I start in school.
I'm not gonna know how to dothat.
I mean, that's my own ridiculousinsecurity of, you know, oh no,
oh no.
How are you like, okay, Olivia'sasleep?
Like, hey, Pete, I've juststarted sketching bags, or hey,
(29:55):
Pete, you know, I think this isthe DNA of what our bag.
Should look like because it'snot gonna look like Marc Jacobs,
it's not gonna look like this,it's not gonna look like that.
How did this come to be whereyou were like, okay, let's do
it, we're all in.
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SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
So interestingly enough, so when I was, I guess
right after I left, we hadgotten uh I gotten a phone call.
Someone reached out aboutconsulting, design consulting.
And so I actually ended up verysmall company somewhere in
Maine.
And it was interesting becausethey were like, oh, we want to
(32:04):
launch um some handbags.
They were actually a rugcompany, but they had really
beautiful, amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:10):
Did you do carpet bags?
Did you do carpet bags?
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
No, I did not do carpet bags.
It's so on the nose, but I lovecarpet bags.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
It's my favorite silhouette.
Like, oh my god.
Oh my god.
I love a good carpet bag.
Sorry, sorry.
No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00 (32:23):
Not at all.
But I mean, it was a great, itwas a great company, and they
had beautiful prints umpatterns.
And so they really just wantedto apply them to some handbags.
So I ended up consulting forthem.
And then in the interim, thatwas when Pete and I started
figuring out, okay, we're gonna,this is what we're gonna do.
And it was amazing.
We had, you know, with Pete, youknow, because Pete and I both
met at Calvin Klein, we knew howto work together.
(32:46):
You know, he was the thebusiness side of it and
merchandising side.
I was the creative design side.
And we actually had a couple ofdifferent business partners,
two, two friends who were alsopeople that we we knew from work
in our previous lives, whoactually were living in Italy
and they were American, butliving in Italy for quite some
time and started a studio.
(33:07):
And so we were launched, we knewwe were gonna launch our bags
out of Italy.
So we uh those um co-workersslash friends partners on the
ground in Italy, searching outfor factories that were right
for us.
So you weren't using thefactories that you were using.
No, no, we wouldn't, no, wewouldn't, we wouldn't do that.
I think it we definitely didn'twant to do that.
(33:27):
One because we didn't want tostep on anyone's toes, and
obviously we were a smallstartup.
I uh the companies that we wereusing for Marc Jacobs or Calvin
Klein were certainly not mostlikely gonna touch.
I mean, we were using the Celinefactories back in the day for
Mark Jacobs.
Right, right, right.
So it was not something that, Imean, we were looking to do
maybe 50 pieces to start out.
Yeah, right, right, right.
(33:48):
So it was a very different, youknow, quantity.
So they weren't even gonnaprobably even take us.
So we had to find smallercompanies that were willing to
take a chance on us on anunknown person and an unknown
brand.
So um they were scoping thatout.
And then we were honestly, wewere looking for one last puzzle
to our uh piece to our puzzle,and that was the sales entity.
(34:10):
And Pete had been like anamazing salesperson back in his
his you know previous jobs, buthe did not want to sit there and
be selling.
That was not what he wanted todo.
Accounts receivable, accountspayable, design and sales.
It's like it's it's a lot.
I mean, it's a lot, and they allhave their own strengths and
(34:30):
purposes and importance.
But he knew that he didn't wantto do that, and so we needed to
find a sales entity and figureout how we were gonna do that.
So that part we had did not havein place, and that was like kind
of the the last piece thatreally needed to be figured out
in order for us to say, okay, wecan do this.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
Oh damn, now what?
We got this great product.
Who's gonna get it to people?
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
No, I mean, it was it was it was interesting.
I think that at that point, weactually, I mean, this is a
complete different little segue,but before we actually started
our brand, we were actuallythinking of potential other
businesses to start.
So we were, you know, we werekind of feeling those out.
So everything was kind ofhappening all at the same time.
And then talk about Kismet,whatever, the stars aligning.
(35:15):
I actually took my daughter tothe park where we were living,
and sh she happened to see, andremember, she was oh my
goodness, two at the time, likeone and a half, but she
recognized one of the kids thatwere there at the park, and so
Olivia's so clever, she's soclever.
SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
My god.
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
Yeah, she recognizes one of the kids that she had
done play dates with, you know,with with my with her nanny,
with her babysitter at the time.
And so then the father is there,and we look at each other, we
don't know who each other is atall, and we're like, oh, our
kids seem to know each other,and we're like, okay, that's
nice, nice to meet you, blah,blah, blah.
Of course, you go through thewhat do you do?
What do you do?
(35:56):
Blah blah blah.
Turns out to be Stephen Allen.
Stephen Allen.
Yes, yeah.
So that was, and that was howum, and then he, you know, he
obviously had his own company,his own stores, but he also had
a showroom, which I was and youknew him.
You were like, I well, I knew ofhim.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
I went to you like, oh my god, Stephen Allen.
SPEAKER_00 (36:16):
Oh my god.
Yeah.
So when he said he was Steven, Iwas like, oh, you know, a little
starstruck, but you know, likedefinitely like, oh, cool.
I mean, you live in Tribeca, yousee a lot of people, it's you
know, it's nothing crazy, butbut it but you know, I admired
him.
I've been shopping at his storesfor decades by that point.
So it was definitely like, oh,cool, that's pretty awesome.
You know, I never knew what helooked like, so I had no idea.
(36:40):
So you know, back in the day wedidn't have really social media
at the time, you know, so it wasa little different.
And so yeah, so then we juststarted talking, and he was
telling me how he has a showroomand he's looking for a new
handbag line to rep, blah, blah,blah.
And I was like, How did you howdid you weave that in?
Being like, hey, hey, girl, youwouldn't believe it.
You know what?
It was very natural.
And he's actually the one thatkind of, you know, he's the one
(37:03):
who actually brought it up to mebecause he was like, What do you
do?
You know, he's like, What do youdo?
I'm like, Oh, I'm a handbagdesigner.
I just recently left MarcJacobs, but my P my husband and
I are looking to potentiallystart something, blah, blah,
blah.
And then he's like, Oh, he'slike, Well, I have a really
great strong handbag brand thatwas in my showroom, who
unfortunately is leaving becausethey've gotten so big that they
(37:25):
want to take sales in-house.
And I'm Was that Monica?
Maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
So um it's I've I've had so many Stephen.
I I have to reach out to himafter that.
I have to have him on becausebetween having Monica back here,
I just spoke, did a part twowith Claire Vivier yesterday,
which is going to be coming up.
So I'll all roads lead back toSteven, Alan.
We've had so many overlaps, andI've had um, I used to do these
(37:54):
handbag industry symposiums thatI've had him speak at, like,
hey, and he's like, Who are you?
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
And I'm like, Well, I know who you are.
Nice, he is such a nice person.
The problem is he knows.
I mean, people know everyoneknows who he is, you know.
So that's the problem.
I don't think he could possiblyknow who everyone is.
Uh that no, you know, because hebecause he's just he's so
amazing, he's very kind.
He was a great business partner.
We were very fortunate.
I mean, and he was just so cool.
(38:21):
He was just like, hey, he'slike, Well, why don't you call
up your husband and let's gohave lunch and let's go just
talk about it.
I'm like, really?
He's like, Yeah, I'm like, okay,you know, and he's and he
clearly he was an entrepreneur,so he knew how to talk to people
and deal with things becausehe'd been doing his entire young
life.
So, you know, me, I'm alwaysused to working the corporate
umbrella, you know, corporateumbrella situation.
(38:41):
So I'm kind of like, okay, isthis how it works in this other
world?
And I guess it is.
So he was just like, Yeah, callup Peter and let's go sit down.
And we sat down with the kidsand boat and had lunch and and
started our business together.
SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
So crazy.
I can't, you know, and it's likehad you not been out that day.
Exactly.
I mean, and that wouldn't havehappened if you were still
working.
SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
Oh, because there's no way you would have been out.
No, I would have been in theoffice working, or in Italy,
actually.
But yeah, no, it would not havehappened.
And honestly, the fact thatOlivia and his son Max, that
they recognized each other.
I mean, it was just so manydifferent things that just had
to align that it's kind of crazythat it's in.
I mean, I think in retrospect,obviously we would have figured
out another sales entity, butStephen Allen Showroom at that
(39:30):
time was the perfect place forour brand.
And it blew us up, you know,just from the onset.
So we were very fortunate um tobe with him.
So that worked out really well.
SPEAKER_01 (39:41):
God, I I get so excited talking to people like
you.
Like, cause I know there's andfortunately we have a lot of
puzzle pieces that Peter filledin of what happened next.
But I wanna, because honestly, Icould have parts one, two,
three, and four with you.
I wanna just jump ahead and talkabout like where you guys are
(40:02):
now.
And I got a lovely message fromPeter saying, Don't forget to
talk about House of Joy.
So what is going on?
I respect that.
Totally respect that.
So what like you guys have beenthrough iterations.
You had stores, you moved toBrooklyn, you had you did
(40:24):
private label, you wererepresenting brands, you had
showrooms, you closed the store,you went, you got your brand to
Korea, and now it's like I thinkthe number one handbag brand in
Korea.
You sold a minority slashmajority steak.
Peter said that during COVID,your bag was on one of the
Korean telenovelas.
I'm saying all this incorrectly,and K-pop, and now it's the
(40:48):
brand to watch.
I can't wait for your bags tonow be resold back into the US,
ironically, because they're sobeautiful.
It's so funny now that your lifeis 50% now greater value in
Korea.
What is going on with what'shappening happening now?
House of Joy, bringing it back,you know, empty nester.
(41:09):
Well, actually, now you're theopposite of an empty nester now.
SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
Yeah, now we're I don't what do you call that when
your child returns after emptynesting?
Our roommate situation.
That's what it is.
So yeah, I mean, yes, I'm I'msure Pete has filled you in for
a lot of that stuff.
So I won't, I won't um duplicateor repeat.
But yeah, so fortunately enoughfor us, we found an amazing
(41:31):
partner in Korea who does uhdoes own a percentage of our
company.
And we were so lucky because thecompany that that we work with
and our partner is again verymuch like Stephen Allen, kind,
generous, smart, and just hassuch a vision.
And thank goodness, you know,has the experience to really,
(41:55):
really bring our brand to thenext level.
And we've been so fortunate inKorea through the craziness of
COVID.
We really did re that was goodtiming for us, sad for everyone
else, unfortunately.
But our brand definitely blew upat that time, you know.
That's and that what washappening here too.
Obviously, everything was shutdown in Korea.
(42:15):
Believe it or not, businesseswere not shut down.
Weird.
My entire staff went to theoffice every day.
They did not miss work, andeveryone just wore masks, and
and that was that was just howit was.
So as usual, exactly.
So that's you know, a couple ofyears later, our you know, our
brand, we opened we're openingup a store literally starting
(42:38):
tomorrow, which is I think thepictures that maybe Pete might
have sent to you, the House ofJoy, and it's in um Itewan in
Korea, which is actually a verybig, really great shopping area.
If anyone's has not been toKorea, you really need to go
because it's really beautiful.
And I'm saving my points for it.
It's such, I mean, the food isinsane, the people are warm, the
(43:00):
shopping is great.
You know, I I'm I'm right now,I'm trying to not go through
that at this moment.
I haven't even done both Botoxyet.
And I say yet because not that Iwant to, but I might, you know,
I can't ever say never.
You can flex that geneticgiftness.
SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
Like you, you, you talk about that.
That's good.
I mean, like if you aregenetically superior and you
don't need that, like I wouldtell everybody, be like, I've
had nothing.
I've had nothing.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
No, it's called using a lot of serum and uh
spending a lot of money on, youknow, lotions and potions and
serum.
And that's what I do, and Ispend a lot of time and energy
on that.
So, you know, got to figure outwhat's what's more important to
you.
Pick and choose your battles.
So that's my battle.
But yeah, so we um we have manystores in Korea, some
freestanding stores like theHouse of Joy that's opening up
(43:52):
tomorrow in Itewon.
And then we also have a lot ofshopping shops in Korea.
The department stores are verydifferent than they are here in
Korea.
People shop differently there.
Well, you have to lease thespaces.
It's like like it's like the bigLouis Vuittons or the big
Fendies and Gucci's in ourdepartment stores.
You know, they don't have buyersthat buy the product, basically.
You you you own, you lease thespace, and you put your
(44:15):
salespeople in, you put yourproduct in that you want.
You you kind of like your ownstore within a store.
Right.
Well, that's how all thedepartment stores are in Korea.
There's no such thing as a buyerbuying your stuff from a
department store level.
SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
Do you do meet and greets there?
SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
No, you know, no, not is not culturally into.
No, it's unless you're a K-popsinger, that's the only that's
and maybe an actress, but uhmeets meet and greets for
designers, those are notsomething that you really do in
Korea.
You know, I think what'sinteresting is our brand is
really it's an interesting brandbecause obviously it's my name
(44:52):
that's not very Korean sounding,but yet, you know, we're
partially owned by a Koreancompany.
And so you get the mixture ofunderstanding the Korean
culture, but also you have theessence of Joy Grayson, the
designer from New York, which isall 100% true.
So it's a really interesting uhconnection and and difference
(45:13):
from most of the other designersthat you have in Korea.
So we try to treat, you know, wetreat it like a Korean brand,
but we also treat it like anindependent New York City brand
as well.
And I think that's part of whatour success is, which may sets
us apart from most of the otherbrands there.
SPEAKER_01 (45:31):
Well, I think there's something to be said
about my vintage days andworking in television, that when
I worked for CNN and they wereopening up international
versions in different cities,and someone had the foresight to
say, hey, you've got to localizeeverything or else it won't
sell, it won't work, it won't berespected, it won't be received.
So you can't try to sell twopeople in a way that's very much
(45:56):
centric to where you're from ifthat's not how they shop.
SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
Exactly.
Exactly.
No, I mean it's just likeeverything else, even the stores
that you sell to in the UnitedStates, they have to make sense
for your product.
Yeah, you can't sell your stuffin a place that you're the
that's not who your the customeris coming.
You know, it's like it's kind oflike you need to make sure that
you're doing your due diligence.
And you know, the product thatyou design, you have a person in
mind, you have a customer inmind.
And you know, obviously there'schoices for every single age,
(46:22):
gender, type, aesthetic,everything.
So, but you can't put yourselfin every single door and every
single website, you know, it'snot gonna sell, it doesn't work
that way.
And that's the same thing withcountries, clearly.
You know, there's justdefinitely different ways of
shopping, different aesthetics.
So um, yeah, you do need to, andeven the designs, going back to
designing, you know, what I usedto design for the US market, or
(46:45):
at least, you know, when we hadstores in the US and in New York
City specifically, you know,it's definitely different than
what we design and what Idesigned for Korea, but also the
times are different too and thetrends are different.
So there's part of that as well.
But of course, I need toconsider, you know, the majority
of my customer base beingKorean.
So that always goes into uhconsideration.
SPEAKER_01 (47:09):
Are you gonna have the brand ever resold back in
the US?
Is that the goal?
SPEAKER_00 (47:14):
That is definitely the goal.
And you know, we were actuallyvery close to doing that right
when when COVID.
No, actually when COVID, yes, alittle bit, but even more so
before the tariffs came intoplay.
Oops, okay.
Yeah.
So we were looking to probablydo that probably out of this
past year.
And unfortunately, once thetariffs came into play, that
(47:35):
definitely halted us because weactually need to figure out and
see what's what's right and whenthe timing is right to do that
and and take that stuff intoconsideration.
Because, you know, if we'regonna relaunch back into the
United States, then we want todo it the right way.
And and I think right now withwhat's going on, there's so many
variables.
Variables, exactly.
(47:55):
So we'll think.
SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
I mean, not that I'm thrilled about the tariff
situation because it affectseverybody, but the other part of
me is like it needed to getaddressed at some point.
So at least it will getaddressed because it has to be
addressed.
So at least we know this isn't aforever thing.
This is uh it will get figuredout, and then like everything
else, it'll stabilize and we'llall proceed business as usual
(48:18):
because that's just how lifeworks in terms of you know the
life cycle of a product andsales and doing any kind of
business.
Yep.
So I am very much lookingforward to getting your product
back here because it'sabsolutely spectacular.
Joy Grayson, thank you so, so,so much for joining us today.
I want everybody to follow you,find you.
(48:40):
How can we do that?
SPEAKER_00 (48:42):
So, um, our Instagram is um JoyGriyson
official.
So please follow us.
And you know, thank you, Emily.
It was it's honestly, I don't dothis very often, and especially
because we're mostly in Korearight now.
So I haven't actually done thisin quite some time.
But it was really lovely tofinally meet you in person.
I know we spoke on the phone,but um, you know, I'm super
excited to be part of your talk.
(49:05):
And congratulations to you onSavvy Susanna.
SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I love the book.
So good.
Well, I'm glad you can relateand identify because that's
really what it's about.
Moms pushing forward their uhentrepreneurial thread and
empowering their their childrento to do their own thing and to
fail forward and to learn fromthose mistakes, and especially
(49:28):
in handbags, because those areour people, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, thank you again.
It's really been a pleasure.
Thank you, Joy.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at handbag designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
What have we just done?
Like we both walked away frombig money, big salaries,
security.
Well, as much security as youcan get from a day job, but
security enough.
And then to be like, what?
Like, what are we supposed to donow?
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Oh, exactly.
Yes.
That was definitely how we felt.
We were comfortable.
We certainly not wealthy at all.
So like it was definitely notsomething that we were just
resting on and just, you know,no big deal.
It was definitely a big deal.
But I think at that point, I hadso much faith in Pete and so
much faith in our abilities thatI think that I just went in.
(00:35):
I'm a very positive person tobegin with.
So I think I just kind of wentin with as much positivity as I
could.
And fear, of course, set in, butnot nearly as overwhelming as
maybe later down the line.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer One and One,
the podcast with your host,Emily Blumenthal, Handbag
Industry Expert, and the HandbagPerry Godmother.
Each week we uncover the storiesbehind the handbags we love,
from the iconic brands and topdesigners, the creativity,
craftsmanship, and culture thatdefine the handbag world.
Whether you're a designer,collector, or simply passionate
(01:10):
about handbags, this is yourfront row seat to it all.
Welcome, Joy Gryson, the elusiveJoy Gyson, as I've been saying,
to Handbag Designer 101 thepodcast.
I had your other half, but justquietly, I told him don't be
(01:31):
insulted if I'm more excited tospeak to Joy than to you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
I'm sure he's kind of used to that a little bit.
So uh hopefully he was kindabout it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
No, no, no.
We we had a laugh.
But, you know, you are one ofthe brands, essentially, that
was part of the massive rise ofthe independent designer, truly
within the scope of theevolution of handbags.
Like, you know, as someone whofashions themselves as an
(02:01):
unofficial handbag historian,and you know, if we were to go
back to the earlier 1920s, 30s,40s, like most of the
independent brands per se wererun by men except for a couple,
and they were very old schooland very industrial, and it was
very much for, you know, theladies.
(02:22):
And then as things progressedand life changed and women went
back to work and all that goodstuff.
The first real existence ofdesigners being independent and
making their mark was in the2000s.
So it's pretty cool, at least tome and everybody else listening,
as I can say, that Droy Grysonas a brand is definitely part of
(02:48):
that lexicon.
I mean, I'm monostationing here,but I that's these are all cold
hard facts.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Thank you very much.
Um, first of all, thank you,Emily, for having me on.
I'm I'm really quite honored andI'm really excited and um I'm
excited that you had Peter onfirst and now you have me.
I really appreciate that.
It's really kind words for youto say.
You know, it's very funnybecause Peter and I were very
much in it, and so, and becausewe were so busy, and we're just
(03:14):
I'd like to think that Pete andI are a little bit more on the
humbler side.
So we actually we don't reallyhear people talking about us
like that, to be honest.
We just really love what we do,and we feel very fortunate and
lucky to have had the experienceand the success and a lot of
pitfalls, but success,especially at that time of
(03:35):
launching.
But thank you very much.
That's a very kind introduction.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Well, it's it's you know, we'll get to you in your
background, but you know, yourclaim to fame prior to all this
would be your time at MarcJacobs.
And I know you worked at CalvinKlein.
I know that's where you andPeter met, but those famous,
famous, famous handbags with theheavy hardware and the
(04:02):
silhouettes and that all, andand obviously, of course, Marc
Jacobs is part of it, but youwere there.
That was you, essentially.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
That was myself and and a bunch of other amazing
talents.
I was very fortunate and going alittle bit back into history,
but one of the designers that Iworked with at Liz Claiborne
back in the day, she did sheended up going from a couple of
different companies, ended up atMarc Jacobs.
And when they were looking forum, it was actually a product
(04:31):
development slash design person,she knew that I was in the
search for a job, and and I'dworked with her for a couple of
years, and I was clearly a veryhard worker, and so and so she
thought of me to come in, and soum she really was the catalyst
(04:52):
for everything, and she's andshe's the talent.
I mean, she was she's amazing,and um who's she?
Her name is Emma, Emma Hill.
She's definitely someone that Iwas considered a mentor, and um,
she was there for a while andshe brought me in, and she's the
super talent, and I learned somuch from her, and then she did
end up leaving, and then I kindof took over the spot, and you
(05:16):
know, that's how things kind ofworked out.
So very, very fortunate.
But yeah, I was there for thebeginning of like the mid to
beginning, beginning mid of likethe whole Marc Jacobs collection
craze.
And that's what I came in forinitially was for Marc Jacobs
collection accessories, whichwas all made out of Italy.
That was the heavy hardware.
Oh my god, suede lining, thatwas all those it bags, and to be
(05:41):
there at the time when when itwas on fire was definitely
amazing, but we worked our assesoff.
So, you know, we again we werein it.
So we I I feel like in someways, like I wish I would have
enjoyed more of the thecraziness at the time.
But you know, we and I were verypassionate and we loved what we
did, and we were um in Italy alot, so um, so that was amazing.
(06:05):
And then um we launched Mark byMarc Jacobs, you know, during
our time there, and that justexploded afterwards.
But um a lot of amazing talentat Marc Jacobs.
Mark was at Louis Vuitton at thetime, he was back and forth
quite a bit as well, but yeah,so we had we had an amazing
team.
It was a small team, but it wasa very, very amazing team, and
(06:25):
um, I'm very grateful for mytime there.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
But I mean, you just touched on so many things
because it's impossible for abrand to have a continued rise
of success.
I mean, look, brands could havegood teams and not be
successful, but to hit azeitgeist moment and then have
hit after hit after hit, youneed to have a good team or else
(06:51):
it won't happen.
It won't be consistent.
There won't be a way to keepthings going at that same
cadence, right?
Like you need to have people whoare excited, who are passionate,
especially since anybody whoknows this time of history that
Mark was boppity bopping backand forth.
So, you know, he had to givedirection.
(07:11):
Obviously, his hand was in it,but you can't just say I think
this should be like this andthis should be like that, and
then leave without having a teamthat could execute that vision.
Was it hard?
Yeah, and I and I talked to alot of people who day jobbed
before, and that is always how Itell people if you ever want to
(07:32):
have your own brand, like getpaid to do it for other people,
learn learn the resources, learnthe process, learn peace goods,
learn margin, learn retail math,because all that shit is so
complicated if you don't get it.
Learn how factories work, learnhow factories don't work, and
then go off on your own.
But we had spoken and you saidlike it was never in your bingo
(07:56):
card to have your own brand.
Like, were you so heavily inthis?
Like, I'm working for a greatbrand, I'm working for great
people, this is where I belong.
I'm a I'm a really solidsoldier.
Is that how you saw yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Yes, definitely.
You know, growing up, I alwaysknew it was funny because my
parents remind me of this, whichyou know, I don't I always knew
I wanted to be in fashion, butmy parents reminded me that I
wanted to be a CEO one day,which I don't honestly remember
saying that, but apparently Idid.
Um I definitely had a businessacumen initially.
So I think maybe that's part ofwhere I came from, but I always
(08:31):
was interested in fashion.
But honestly, you know, I workedat major corporations, really,
really large companies, reallystrong brands since day one.
And so, and I really, like yousaid, for me, it was about
learning how to do everythingthat you possibly can to the
best of your ability, you know,watch, listen, and do, and make
(08:53):
your mistakes on someone else'sdime.
Yeah, because we're all gonnamake mistakes and just really
work your butt off.
And back in those days, as youknow, you know, there was no
work-life balance.
It was all no, it was all work.
But honestly, for me and forpeople who really enjoy what
they do, especially when you'reyoung and you're really just a
go-getter, you're you enjoy whatyou're doing.
(09:13):
So for me, I was fine with that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
I didn't have to put me on a plane to Italy.
I'll go.
You know, I'll work all night,I'll do walk around sketching
and work with the factory.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
That's kind of it was a good, it was definitely a
good life.
Actually, funny that youmentioned because the reason I
ended up leaving Marc Jacobs wasactually not necessarily to
start our own company.
It was I had my daughter, I'djust gotten pre I'd gotten
pregnant.
Um, travel, and I was funnybecause my husband was like, I
don't even know how we gotpregnant because I was in Italy
(09:43):
all the time.
So, you know, so that was kindof funny.
Um I mean, you met up once.
I'm sorry, like you met up once,so there was that.
We know that.
Yeah, don't tell Pete, don'tremind Pete of that.
But um, so you know, so I we Iwas traveling a lot prior to
having Olivia, and then I wasdefinitely traveling a little
bit after having Olivia, andthat is when I realized that
(10:07):
this was not sustainable for mylifestyle and for what I wanted
to do with regard to being amother.
And then Peter at the time alsowas kind of in his crossroads of
like what does he want to do inhis future from where he was?
So it was actually kind of likea situation where we were both
thinking, oh, you know, what arewe gonna do?
(10:27):
How are we going to proceed withthe rest of our life as parents?
Because that was obviously thepriority.
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Can I ask you?
So, like Olivia falls out, yougive birth, you're working for
this major company, theexpectations don't stop, the
momentum doesn't stop.
You have Mark Jacobs, Mark byMark.
All of this is essentiallyfalling on your head.
And you know, the interestingthing is having a kind of job
(10:56):
like that, a day job like that,it's not a day job, it's who you
are, it's how you defineyourself.
This is me, the brand can'tsurvive.
And then there's this bizarre,like, oh my God, I have a child.
Like, what like I can onlyimagine your first business trip
must have been in tears, like ona plane, hysterically crying.
(11:16):
Like, should I really be doingthis?
I don't know if I should bedoing this.
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
Yeah, it was really, really hard, even on maternity
leave.
So the smartest thing that notthe smartest thing I've done,
but one of the things that Irealized was when I was going
when I realized when I waspregnant with Olivia, and Emma
had unfortunately already leftthe company, and it came to a
point where I was like, you knowwhat?
I need someone who can come inwho I really trust to be my eyes
(11:44):
and ears and to take thedivision and go with it and know
that I can I feel comfortableand so on and so forth.
So I ended up hiring a closefriend of mine who happened to
be at another company and waslooking to leave for quite some
time.
And she ended up consulting forus while I was on maternity
(12:05):
leave.
But it was great because when Icame back, I was, you know,
working a couple of days, youknow, I was actually doing, I
think I was even on maternityleave, I think I was still
working a little bit onmaternity leave.
Of course you were.
So yeah, so I mean it was it wasnice because I had someone there
who I really trusted, who I knewwho was talented.
So that all worked out.
So that was something that was,thank goodness, a smart thing
that um myself and my boss hadthought of.
(12:27):
And so that made life a loteasier for sure.
And then, yes, when I got back,it was really hard.
And that's where that's when Iand I I think the one time that
really, really I realized thatthis was not gonna work was when
uh sustainable.
Yeah, it was it was like it wasduring, you know, right leading
up to fashion week, and you'rein the office and you're you
(12:48):
know putting together all theselooks, and you have to do things
that need to get done, andyou're literally barely
sleeping, and and I had to goand I had to go, and yes, I had
a team, but like everyone had topitch in.
And I'm not one of those peoplewhere I was like, I'm sitting at
my desk and doing nothing, andeveryone else.
Because of course, our ourbelieve or not, our our team was
tiny, right?
(13:09):
So there wasn't even a lot ofpeople doing that, and honestly,
like I needed to make sure thatthings were done, getting done
correctly, and I am a little bitof a control freak when it comes
to that, and especially whenMark's asking for something, you
need to make sure it's correct,otherwise, he will let you know
that it's not.
So I had to go to the beltfactory in in New York and all
these things, and and I wasthere for hours beyond hours,
(13:30):
and that's when I was like, andmy daughter by that point was
already like a couple like atleast six months to a year old.
And so I knew at that point Iwas like, okay, I'm like, you
know, it's just this is not theright time for me.
So when I left, you know, it wasreally interesting because I
didn't really tell them what wasgoing on.
I just knew that it was time togo.
And I think they thought that Iwas going to another company.
SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
You can't tell people when you have a baby at
that time.
People don't care.
And you know, they're like, oh,great, congrats.
Wow, uh, you look so goodpregnant.
Oh, look at your beautifulpictures.
Okay, so back to me, back to us,back to the collection.
So I almost feel likeunfortunately, for you to have
said, Hey, I miss my child, Ilike nobody would, that wouldn't
(14:11):
even be fathomable.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
You know, I have to say that the the women who were
actually most of the seniorpeople at Mark Jacobs
Accessories and um Mark by MarkReadyware, which we fell under,
they're all women, and one ofthem was a mother of two, or
maybe a mother of one at thetime, maybe.
But like we all, like, you know,we were all at that age where we
(14:34):
were kind of going through it.
And so they understood, but thatwasn't the situation, you know.
I think now the times are somuch better, and it took that
long for, you know, the industryand and the world to understand,
you know, how important it isfor women to be able to be both
in uh realistic situations.
At that time, you know, this wasin the early 2000s.
(14:57):
Clearly, we hadn't gotten thereyet.
So even though my bosses wereunderstanding, it just wasn't
realistic with what needed toget done, and especially with,
you know, just the type of workthat we did, especially having
to travel and getting thingsdone for fashion shows and
market and stuff like that.
It was it was really hard.
I mean, they somehow they seemlike I think they figured it
(15:18):
out.
Not necessarily Mark Jacobs, butjust industry as a whole, it
seems a lot better than it usedto be.
But um, yeah, at that time itwas definitely difficult.
And it's unfortunate.
But you know what?
At the end of the day, clearlyit was meant for meant to be.
And it was and I'm I'm so happythat Peter and I took the leap
of faith to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
I'm excited to share my new book with you.
Welcome to Savvy Susanna'sAmazing Adventures in Handbags
and the start of Susanna'striumphant journey to become a
young handbag designer.
Filled with ingenuity, fun, anda hint of steam, Susanna will
inspire children and youeverywhere to follow their
dreams and put in the hard workto get there.
Savvy Susanna is available onAmazon, Barnes and Noble, or
(16:02):
wherever you get your books.
Thanks for your support.
Did you tell Mark personally,like, hey, and did he ask where
you were going?
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
No, he was actually still at Louis Vuitton.
So he was not in the offices.
So no, I spoke to my directreport who was the president of
accessories and mark by mark.
And uh, and you know, she's avery kind woman.
She understood, but I think sheeveryone assumed, like, oh, I'm
going to another company becausethat is the natural inclination.
(16:29):
And I and at that point, I thinkwhat happened was I actually had
a maybe a consulting job at thatpoint.
Like someone wanted to hire meto consult.
Maybe I but I think at thatpoint Peter and I just weren't
even sure.
Like we knew we were gonna startsomething, but we didn't know
exactly what that was gonna be,and we hadn't we hadn't even
like started designing anythingor starting anything.
(16:51):
So for me, it was like it wasright before the summertime, and
it was just the time to say itwas the end of a it was right
after like fashion week, and itwas time to be like, okay, time
to cut the cord before anythingelse happened.
And so that was it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
So you said, All right, I'm calling it, that's
it.
You came home, Peter was home.
Was it one of those like, ohdamn, oh shit, like now what?
Like, what do we do?
Oh my gosh, yeah.
I mean, uh I the silence isdeafening when you're there with
a child who's napping, and thenyou're looking at each other
(17:26):
like, what have we just done?
Like we both walked away frombig money, big salaries,
security.
Well, as much security as youcan get from a day job, but
security enough, and then to belike what, like, what are we
supposed to do now?
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Oh, exactly.
Yes, that was definitely how wefelt.
You know, it the best thing wasthat it was the summertime, so
it made things a little biteasier, and so we got to enjoy
our time with Olivia.
I mean, honestly, it was one ofthe best times because I
actually we have a family beachhouse and I went to go see my
sister there, and I I don't Idon't think I've ever done that
with my sister, just the two ofus.
(18:02):
So that was wonderful.
It was wonderful just to be ableto actually just breathe and
take time.
But of course, I mean, I'veworked my entire life since I
was probably 14, 15 years oldand never stopped working.
So for me, not to work wasreally awkward and weird.
And then, of course, you know,you know, I think part of me
didn't even realize the realramifications of like income
(18:27):
situation.
I mean, like we were, you know,we were comfortable.
We certainly not wealthy at all.
So like it was definitely notsomething that we were just
resting on and just, you know,no big deal.
It was definitely a big deal.
But I think at that point, I hadso much faith in Pete and so
much faith in our abilities thatI think that I just went in.
I'm a very positive person tobegin with.
(18:48):
So I think I just kind of wentin with as much positivity as I
could.
And fear, of course, set in, butnot nearly as overwhelming as
maybe later down the line.
That's crazy.
What did you study, by the way?
So I went to um first I went toAlbany and I did business, and
then I hated business after thefirst semester, and I decided to
(19:10):
do art.
So I decided to do art, be anart major.
And then I realized that the artat Albany was not like the best
thing.
And then so I was like, oh mygosh.
I went into poli sci for like asecond because I did think I
have dreams of maybe being alawyer at one point in my life.
Don't ask.
And then I realized, oh boy,this is like I'm not figuring
anything out here.
So I transferred to FIT.
(19:32):
And because I'd gotten so manycredits in the business and you
know, general requirements, Iwas able to, when I transferred
to FIT, I ended up taking tonsof design classes, actually.
Right.
Like dream classes.
I'm sorry, like dream classes.
Oh my god, oh my god.
Some were dream and some werenot.
I mean, the pattern, you know,pattern making and grading, and
(19:55):
those were not my my special usewhatsoever.
Sewing, I was not glade at.
I mean, I love the learningaspect of and understanding how
to sew, but I was not, I mean,when I had to sew my dress for
my final project, I would tellyou it was not the nice work.
But I did appreciate, I love Ilove architecture, I love
(20:15):
engineering, so which makessense why handbags worked out
well for me.
Right.
Because it's sothree-dimensional.
And I've always been intoarchitecture, so I kind of feel
like somehow the world figuredit out and the stars aligned,
and I did end up being in theright place.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
Um, but I your parents supportive of all this?
Were your parents like you'relike, like, oh, I'm transferring
again.
No, I I'm changing my major.
No, I'm changing my major.
You know what?
I'm just leaving.
Like, I can't do this anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Oh no, my parents are amazing.
They're super, super supportiveabout anything we do.
Uh oh my gosh, yeah.
They they were just like, dowhat you need to know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
When you moved back from Albany, were you living at
home?
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Oh, I was.
Yes.
Was that hard?
Very much so.
Yeah.
But I mean, honestly, like itwas nice because my father
worked, uh, he's a he was adentist and he worked at N by
the NYU buildings.
So we would drive in togetherand he would drop me off.
And so we actually got a lot offather doctor time for two
years.
And it was actually great.
(21:15):
And and and I didn't, I mean, Ididn't what didn't bother me
back then.
I did want to live on campus,but I think you had to live like
a certain mileage away, and wedidn't live that far.
And you know, honestly, I feltbad that I was making them pay
for, you know, an extra year ofschool and so on and so forth.
So I wanted to be respectful ofthat.
And um, no, it was actually, Ikind of enjoyed it.
(21:37):
And I knew that I'd be living inthe city probably for the most
of my adult life afterwards.
So it wasn't a big deal.
I mean, I think the thecultural, the social aspect was
a little bit harder because Iwasn't living on campus, but you
know, it was all good.
And I was very serious.
I was a year older thaneverybody in my grades.
I transferred, so I was and I'doff and I'd had my college
(21:58):
experience.
So for me, this is more aboutwhat am I doing with my life?
I want to start a career now.
So, and I always knew I wantedto be in fashion.
So it actually was the bestthing.
So, yeah.
So I actually studied fashionbuying and merchandising
thinking that I wanted to becomea merchandiser, to be honest.
And then when I was doing allthose credits and learning about
(22:19):
that, what was great about evenfashion buying merchandising was
that you actually needed to takefabric sourcing classes, you had
to take salesmanship classes,you had to take product
development classes, you had totake all these other classes
that you maybe don't think thatyou have to take.
And it was, and it was amazingbecause I know more than most
designers know from a businessstandpoint.
(22:40):
And then from a designperspective, I got to take a lot
of design courses when I wasthere, which was awesome.
And then after I got my firstjob, I ended up going back to
FIT, taking like, you know,adult courses, learning more
about sketching and learningmore about, you know, other
things.
And so it was it was actually ifI had to do it all over again, I
(23:01):
probably wouldn't have done itthat differently, maybe a little
differently, but not thatdifferently.
So I worked out.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
That's I mean FIT is a very funny place, I gotta say.
I mean, having taught there forso long, it is.
It's but it's much like anyuniversity or any college
experience, like it's there forthe taking if you want to get
it, and nobody is going to handit to you, especially being in
New York City.
(23:29):
And I think it seems like you'vebeen very, I don't want to say
fortunate, but you know, rightplace, right time.
But none of that means anythingunless you have a work ethic.
Like unless you're just likedown to grind, down to hustle,
down to make sure that okay, mytime here matters.
I'm gonna get a return oninvestment.
(23:50):
I'm going to be responsible withother people's money.
I'm going to ensure that what Ido has a purpose and the why is
always being answered.
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (23:59):
Yeah.
I mean, I came from a familywhere my my parents have amazing
worth of work ethics.
So I've just by being part ofthe family, you know, you just
see it and you watch it, andthat's just like part of your
DNA after a while, you know?
So for me, it was never aquestion.
And um, I was always a goodstudent in school.
I wasn't like the best, but Iwas always really good.
(24:19):
And if I love the classes, thenforget it.
Like I was, you know, straight Ain those classes.
So um, and then I knew that Iwanted to be in fashion, and I
knew that, you know, the coursesthat I was taking at FIT was
going to help me get to where Iwant to be.
So for me, even though like Ihonestly didn't love the
marketing class for some reason,but you know, I studied my butt
off and could have been theprofessor, just saying.
(24:42):
Yeah, it could have been.
She wasn't so bad.
It just I think you know, I'veobviously I was more interested
in the product development andfabric textiles and and anything
more tactile and more, you know,creative for me.
Obviously, that makes sense.
But yeah, I mean, on the workethic, I mean, like I mentioned
to you before, you know, goingto Marc Jacobs, I knew I'd
worked for somebody who had thenbrought me in because she knew
(25:04):
of my work ethic.
And basically, when I first, myfirst job out of school was at
Liz Claiborne and I reported tofive designers, and they were
all very different from eachother, like night and day, every
single one of them.
But I worked my butt off foreach and every one of them to
the point where like I wasoverdoing stuff that I actually
woke up late one morning becauseI was so exhausted from doing
(25:27):
like someone's expense report,let's say.
And so the office called becausethey were concerned about me
because I hadn't come into theoffice because I was so tired.
I was up till like three in themorning doing it.
Right, right.
It's like, and not that that waswhatever, but it was just it was
just like one of those, and Ididn't mind doing it because I
just honestly like I lovedworking, I loved showing that I
(25:47):
cared, and I was just willing todo whatever I needed to do to
like, you know, further myselfand learn as much as I possibly
could.
So, and so every single job thatI actually had gotten pretty
much was through either one ofthose designers or through
somebody I'd worked with atanother company because they saw
the work ethic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I isn't that amazing.
And I I hate soundinggenerationally old, but there
there is so much to say aboutlike doing things that aren't
within your wheelhouse or withinyour job description or within
what your expectation is.
Like I was hired for design.
Why are you doing an expensereport?
Because that's that becauseyou're doing what it was, right?
(26:31):
Because you want to makeyourself look like a team
player.
So when opportunities come,you'll be the first one to get
it.
And that's that's the only wayyou lock it in.
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
And exactly.
I think there's a there's a fineline between, you know, there
are some people who abuse theirsituation and do things that are
totally inappropriate.
But to me, and the back,especially back in that day,
that was not an unheard of thingto ask.
Of course not.
I was a design assistant, I wasan assistant, so you did pretty
much anything that the designersneeded you to do that was in
(27:02):
their work well realm, whichdoing your own expense reports
was part of their work as well.
So, and they needed to traveland this and that, whatever.
So to me, I did not think thatwas an and and that was normal.
So it wasn't anything like thatwas wrong.
But yeah, when you go in, andespecially this day and age, I
think there's a lot more of likea fine line for things in
(27:22):
people's perspective and minds.
But to me, like it it, I Idefinitely was more like, I'm
gonna do whatever you tell me todo, as long as it's okay with
me, you know, and I'm okay, andyou know, and it's not breaking
any laws, I'm good with that.
So um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
So this, I mean, like, this is like peeling a
design onion.
I'm so excited.
So you're at the summer, youhave this baby, she's cute, you
have a husband, he's like okay,he's cute.
He is, he's sweet, he is, he is,he's tall, which is good because
it's hard to do that when you'reshort, but that's just my
personal opinion.
(28:00):
That's just me offhand.
It's true, because then you'llget short kids, which again,
nothing wrong with just makespeople's lives hard.
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
You know what my mom said about being short?
The one of the benefits of beingshort, because I'm only five,
two, is that you can marry ordate anyone who's short or tall.
It's a lot easier.
And not that you can't whenyou're tall, but it's sometimes
it's a little bit more awkwardor uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
Yeah, well, you know, you are cute too.
So, you know, you've got thatgoing for you.
How to how to Olivia's tallthough, isn't she?
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
You know what?
She was always like 99thpercentile up until about fifth
grade, and then she's verythat's it, average in height.
She's uh five five.
Okay, two, right.
But she, yeah, she's abeautiful, she's beautiful.
She always she looks taller thanshe really is, which is I find
very interesting how that works.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
But anyway, that's an aura.
That's an aura thing.
Oh, I like that.
She's got a tall aura.
Yeah, I mean, I've never mether.
I just assume if you if youmatch the two of you together
from the one time you guys metbetween Italy and every and
China, you know, of himtraveling.
So I I want to ask, like, okay,so you had the summer, it was a
(29:12):
delight.
You finally were like, I canexhale, but then there's always
that kind of like panic inside,like, I don't want to get too
comfortable.
Because if I get toocomfortable, my whole work ethic
is gonna fall in the toilet.
Like my senior year of highschool when everybody else was
like, screw that, I'm incollege.
I think that was my best yearacademically, because I'm like,
(29:33):
oh my God, if I stop working sohard, I'm gonna forget how to
work hard and then I'm gonna bescrewed once I start in school.
I'm not gonna know how to dothat.
I mean, that's my own ridiculousinsecurity of, you know, oh no,
oh no.
How are you like, okay, Olivia'sasleep?
Like, hey, Pete, I've juststarted sketching bags, or hey,
(29:55):
Pete, you know, I think this isthe DNA of what our bag.
Should look like because it'snot gonna look like Marc Jacobs,
it's not gonna look like this,it's not gonna look like that.
How did this come to be whereyou were like, okay, let's do
it, we're all in.
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SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
So interestingly enough, so when I was, I guess
right after I left, we hadgotten uh I gotten a phone call.
Someone reached out aboutconsulting, design consulting.
And so I actually ended up verysmall company somewhere in
Maine.
And it was interesting becausethey were like, oh, we want to
(32:04):
launch um some handbags.
They were actually a rugcompany, but they had really
beautiful, amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:10):
Did you do carpet bags?
Did you do carpet bags?
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
No, I did not do carpet bags.
It's so on the nose, but I lovecarpet bags.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
It's my favorite silhouette.
Like, oh my god.
Oh my god.
I love a good carpet bag.
Sorry, sorry.
No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00 (32:23):
Not at all.
But I mean, it was a great, itwas a great company, and they
had beautiful prints umpatterns.
And so they really just wantedto apply them to some handbags.
So I ended up consulting forthem.
And then in the interim, thatwas when Pete and I started
figuring out, okay, we're gonna,this is what we're gonna do.
And it was amazing.
We had, you know, with Pete, youknow, because Pete and I both
met at Calvin Klein, we knew howto work together.
(32:46):
You know, he was the thebusiness side of it and
merchandising side.
I was the creative design side.
And we actually had a couple ofdifferent business partners,
two, two friends who were alsopeople that we we knew from work
in our previous lives, whoactually were living in Italy
and they were American, butliving in Italy for quite some
time and started a studio.
(33:07):
And so we were launched, we knewwe were gonna launch our bags
out of Italy.
So we uh those um co-workersslash friends partners on the
ground in Italy, searching outfor factories that were right
for us.
So you weren't using thefactories that you were using.
No, no, we wouldn't, no, wewouldn't, we wouldn't do that.
I think it we definitely didn'twant to do that.
(33:27):
One because we didn't want tostep on anyone's toes, and
obviously we were a smallstartup.
I uh the companies that we wereusing for Marc Jacobs or Calvin
Klein were certainly not mostlikely gonna touch.
I mean, we were using the Celinefactories back in the day for
Mark Jacobs.
Right, right, right.
So it was not something that, Imean, we were looking to do
maybe 50 pieces to start out.
Yeah, right, right, right.
(33:48):
So it was a very different, youknow, quantity.
So they weren't even gonnaprobably even take us.
So we had to find smallercompanies that were willing to
take a chance on us on anunknown person and an unknown
brand.
So um they were scoping thatout.
And then we were honestly, wewere looking for one last puzzle
to our uh piece to our puzzle,and that was the sales entity.
(34:10):
And Pete had been like anamazing salesperson back in his
his you know previous jobs, buthe did not want to sit there and
be selling.
That was not what he wanted todo.
Accounts receivable, accountspayable, design and sales.
It's like it's it's a lot.
I mean, it's a lot, and they allhave their own strengths and
(34:30):
purposes and importance.
But he knew that he didn't wantto do that, and so we needed to
find a sales entity and figureout how we were gonna do that.
So that part we had did not havein place, and that was like kind
of the the last piece thatreally needed to be figured out
in order for us to say, okay, wecan do this.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
Oh damn, now what?
We got this great product.
Who's gonna get it to people?
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
No, I mean, it was it was it was interesting.
I think that at that point, weactually, I mean, this is a
complete different little segue,but before we actually started
our brand, we were actuallythinking of potential other
businesses to start.
So we were, you know, we werekind of feeling those out.
So everything was kind ofhappening all at the same time.
And then talk about Kismet,whatever, the stars aligning.
(35:15):
I actually took my daughter tothe park where we were living,
and sh she happened to see, andremember, she was oh my
goodness, two at the time, likeone and a half, but she
recognized one of the kids thatwere there at the park, and so
Olivia's so clever, she's soclever.
SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
My god.
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
Yeah, she recognizes one of the kids that she had
done play dates with, you know,with with my with her nanny,
with her babysitter at the time.
And so then the father is there,and we look at each other, we
don't know who each other is atall, and we're like, oh, our
kids seem to know each other,and we're like, okay, that's
nice, nice to meet you, blah,blah, blah.
Of course, you go through thewhat do you do?
What do you do?
(35:56):
Blah blah blah.
Turns out to be Stephen Allen.
Stephen Allen.
Yes, yeah.
So that was, and that was howum, and then he, you know, he
obviously had his own company,his own stores, but he also had
a showroom, which I was and youknew him.
You were like, I well, I knew ofhim.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
I went to you like, oh my god, Stephen Allen.
SPEAKER_00 (36:16):
Oh my god.
Yeah.
So when he said he was Steven, Iwas like, oh, you know, a little
starstruck, but you know, likedefinitely like, oh, cool.
I mean, you live in Tribeca, yousee a lot of people, it's you
know, it's nothing crazy, butbut it but you know, I admired
him.
I've been shopping at his storesfor decades by that point.
So it was definitely like, oh,cool, that's pretty awesome.
You know, I never knew what helooked like, so I had no idea.
(36:40):
So you know, back in the day wedidn't have really social media
at the time, you know, so it wasa little different.
And so yeah, so then we juststarted talking, and he was
telling me how he has a showroomand he's looking for a new
handbag line to rep, blah, blah,blah.
And I was like, How did you howdid you weave that in?
Being like, hey, hey, girl, youwouldn't believe it.
You know what?
It was very natural.
And he's actually the one thatkind of, you know, he's the one
(37:03):
who actually brought it up to mebecause he was like, What do you
do?
You know, he's like, What do youdo?
I'm like, Oh, I'm a handbagdesigner.
I just recently left MarcJacobs, but my P my husband and
I are looking to potentiallystart something, blah, blah,
blah.
And then he's like, Oh, he'slike, Well, I have a really
great strong handbag brand thatwas in my showroom, who
unfortunately is leaving becausethey've gotten so big that they
(37:25):
want to take sales in-house.
And I'm Was that Monica?
Maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
So um it's I've I've had so many Stephen.
I I have to reach out to himafter that.
I have to have him on becausebetween having Monica back here,
I just spoke, did a part twowith Claire Vivier yesterday,
which is going to be coming up.
So I'll all roads lead back toSteven, Alan.
We've had so many overlaps, andI've had um, I used to do these
(37:54):
handbag industry symposiums thatI've had him speak at, like,
hey, and he's like, Who are you?
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
And I'm like, Well, I know who you are.
Nice, he is such a nice person.
The problem is he knows.
I mean, people know everyoneknows who he is, you know.
So that's the problem.
I don't think he could possiblyknow who everyone is.
Uh that no, you know, because hebecause he's just he's so
amazing, he's very kind.
He was a great business partner.
We were very fortunate.
I mean, and he was just so cool.
(38:21):
He was just like, hey, he'slike, Well, why don't you call
up your husband and let's gohave lunch and let's go just
talk about it.
I'm like, really?
He's like, Yeah, I'm like, okay,you know, and he's and he
clearly he was an entrepreneur,so he knew how to talk to people
and deal with things becausehe'd been doing his entire young
life.
So, you know, me, I'm alwaysused to working the corporate
umbrella, you know, corporateumbrella situation.
(38:41):
So I'm kind of like, okay, isthis how it works in this other
world?
And I guess it is.
So he was just like, Yeah, callup Peter and let's go sit down.
And we sat down with the kidsand boat and had lunch and and
started our business together.
SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
So crazy.
I can't, you know, and it's likehad you not been out that day.
Exactly.
I mean, and that wouldn't havehappened if you were still
working.
SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
Oh, because there's no way you would have been out.
No, I would have been in theoffice working, or in Italy,
actually.
But yeah, no, it would not havehappened.
And honestly, the fact thatOlivia and his son Max, that
they recognized each other.
I mean, it was just so manydifferent things that just had
to align that it's kind of crazythat it's in.
I mean, I think in retrospect,obviously we would have figured
out another sales entity, butStephen Allen Showroom at that
(39:30):
time was the perfect place forour brand.
And it blew us up, you know,just from the onset.
So we were very fortunate um tobe with him.
So that worked out really well.
SPEAKER_01 (39:41):
God, I I get so excited talking to people like
you.
Like, cause I know there's andfortunately we have a lot of
puzzle pieces that Peter filledin of what happened next.
But I wanna, because honestly, Icould have parts one, two,
three, and four with you.
I wanna just jump ahead and talkabout like where you guys are
(40:02):
now.
And I got a lovely message fromPeter saying, Don't forget to
talk about House of Joy.
So what is going on?
I respect that.
Totally respect that.
So what like you guys have beenthrough iterations.
You had stores, you moved toBrooklyn, you had you did
(40:24):
private label, you wererepresenting brands, you had
showrooms, you closed the store,you went, you got your brand to
Korea, and now it's like I thinkthe number one handbag brand in
Korea.
You sold a minority slashmajority steak.
Peter said that during COVID,your bag was on one of the
Korean telenovelas.
I'm saying all this incorrectly,and K-pop, and now it's the
(40:48):
brand to watch.
I can't wait for your bags tonow be resold back into the US,
ironically, because they're sobeautiful.
It's so funny now that your lifeis 50% now greater value in
Korea.
What is going on with what'shappening happening now?
House of Joy, bringing it back,you know, empty nester.
(41:09):
Well, actually, now you're theopposite of an empty nester now.
SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
Yeah, now we're I don't what do you call that when
your child returns after emptynesting?
Our roommate situation.
That's what it is.
So yeah, I mean, yes, I'm I'msure Pete has filled you in for
a lot of that stuff.
So I won't, I won't um duplicateor repeat.
But yeah, so fortunately enoughfor us, we found an amazing
(41:31):
partner in Korea who does uhdoes own a percentage of our
company.
And we were so lucky because thecompany that that we work with
and our partner is again verymuch like Stephen Allen, kind,
generous, smart, and just hassuch a vision.
And thank goodness, you know,has the experience to really,
(41:55):
really bring our brand to thenext level.
And we've been so fortunate inKorea through the craziness of
COVID.
We really did re that was goodtiming for us, sad for everyone
else, unfortunately.
But our brand definitely blew upat that time, you know.
That's and that what washappening here too.
Obviously, everything was shutdown in Korea.
(42:15):
Believe it or not, businesseswere not shut down.
Weird.
My entire staff went to theoffice every day.
They did not miss work, andeveryone just wore masks, and
and that was that was just howit was.
So as usual, exactly.
So that's you know, a couple ofyears later, our you know, our
brand, we opened we're openingup a store literally starting
(42:38):
tomorrow, which is I think thepictures that maybe Pete might
have sent to you, the House ofJoy, and it's in um Itewan in
Korea, which is actually a verybig, really great shopping area.
If anyone's has not been toKorea, you really need to go
because it's really beautiful.
And I'm saving my points for it.
It's such, I mean, the food isinsane, the people are warm, the
(43:00):
shopping is great.
You know, I I'm I'm right now,I'm trying to not go through
that at this moment.
I haven't even done both Botoxyet.
And I say yet because not that Iwant to, but I might, you know,
I can't ever say never.
You can flex that geneticgiftness.
SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
Like you, you, you talk about that.
That's good.
I mean, like if you aregenetically superior and you
don't need that, like I wouldtell everybody, be like, I've
had nothing.
I've had nothing.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
No, it's called using a lot of serum and uh
spending a lot of money on, youknow, lotions and potions and
serum.
And that's what I do, and Ispend a lot of time and energy
on that.
So, you know, got to figure outwhat's what's more important to
you.
Pick and choose your battles.
So that's my battle.
But yeah, so we um we have manystores in Korea, some
freestanding stores like theHouse of Joy that's opening up
(43:52):
tomorrow in Itewon.
And then we also have a lot ofshopping shops in Korea.
The department stores are verydifferent than they are here in
Korea.
People shop differently there.
Well, you have to lease thespaces.
It's like like it's like the bigLouis Vuittons or the big
Fendies and Gucci's in ourdepartment stores.
You know, they don't have buyersthat buy the product, basically.
You you you own, you lease thespace, and you put your
(44:15):
salespeople in, you put yourproduct in that you want.
You you kind of like your ownstore within a store.
Right.
Well, that's how all thedepartment stores are in Korea.
There's no such thing as a buyerbuying your stuff from a
department store level.
SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
Do you do meet and greets there?
SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
No, you know, no, not is not culturally into.
No, it's unless you're a K-popsinger, that's the only that's
and maybe an actress, but uhmeets meet and greets for
designers, those are notsomething that you really do in
Korea.
You know, I think what'sinteresting is our brand is
really it's an interesting brandbecause obviously it's my name
(44:52):
that's not very Korean sounding,but yet, you know, we're
partially owned by a Koreancompany.
And so you get the mixture ofunderstanding the Korean
culture, but also you have theessence of Joy Grayson, the
designer from New York, which isall 100% true.
So it's a really interesting uhconnection and and difference
(45:13):
from most of the other designersthat you have in Korea.
So we try to treat, you know, wetreat it like a Korean brand,
but we also treat it like anindependent New York City brand
as well.
And I think that's part of whatour success is, which may sets
us apart from most of the otherbrands there.
SPEAKER_01 (45:31):
Well, I think there's something to be said
about my vintage days andworking in television, that when
I worked for CNN and they wereopening up international
versions in different cities,and someone had the foresight to
say, hey, you've got to localizeeverything or else it won't
sell, it won't work, it won't berespected, it won't be received.
So you can't try to sell twopeople in a way that's very much
(45:56):
centric to where you're from ifthat's not how they shop.
SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
Exactly.
Exactly.
No, I mean it's just likeeverything else, even the stores
that you sell to in the UnitedStates, they have to make sense
for your product.
Yeah, you can't sell your stuffin a place that you're the
that's not who your the customeris coming.
You know, it's like it's kind oflike you need to make sure that
you're doing your due diligence.
And you know, the product thatyou design, you have a person in
mind, you have a customer inmind.
And you know, obviously there'schoices for every single age,
(46:22):
gender, type, aesthetic,everything.
So, but you can't put yourselfin every single door and every
single website, you know, it'snot gonna sell, it doesn't work
that way.
And that's the same thing withcountries, clearly.
You know, there's justdefinitely different ways of
shopping, different aesthetics.
So um, yeah, you do need to, andeven the designs, going back to
designing, you know, what I usedto design for the US market, or
(46:45):
at least, you know, when we hadstores in the US and in New York
City specifically, you know,it's definitely different than
what we design and what Idesigned for Korea, but also the
times are different too and thetrends are different.
So there's part of that as well.
But of course, I need toconsider, you know, the majority
of my customer base beingKorean.
So that always goes into uhconsideration.
SPEAKER_01 (47:09):
Are you gonna have the brand ever resold back in
the US?
Is that the goal?
SPEAKER_00 (47:14):
That is definitely the goal.
And you know, we were actuallyvery close to doing that right
when when COVID.
No, actually when COVID, yes, alittle bit, but even more so
before the tariffs came intoplay.
Oops, okay.
Yeah.
So we were looking to probablydo that probably out of this
past year.
And unfortunately, once thetariffs came into play, that
(47:35):
definitely halted us because weactually need to figure out and
see what's what's right and whenthe timing is right to do that
and and take that stuff intoconsideration.
Because, you know, if we'regonna relaunch back into the
United States, then we want todo it the right way.
And and I think right now withwhat's going on, there's so many
variables.
Variables, exactly.
(47:55):
So we'll think.
SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
I mean, not that I'm thrilled about the tariff
situation because it affectseverybody, but the other part of
me is like it needed to getaddressed at some point.
So at least it will getaddressed because it has to be
addressed.
So at least we know this isn't aforever thing.
This is uh it will get figuredout, and then like everything
else, it'll stabilize and we'llall proceed business as usual
(48:18):
because that's just how lifeworks in terms of you know the
life cycle of a product andsales and doing any kind of
business.
Yep.
So I am very much lookingforward to getting your product
back here because it'sabsolutely spectacular.
Joy Grayson, thank you so, so,so much for joining us today.
I want everybody to follow you,find you.
(48:40):
How can we do that?
SPEAKER_00 (48:42):
So, um, our Instagram is um JoyGriyson
official.
So please follow us.
And you know, thank you, Emily.
It was it's honestly, I don't dothis very often, and especially
because we're mostly in Korearight now.
So I haven't actually done thisin quite some time.
But it was really lovely tofinally meet you in person.
I know we spoke on the phone,but um, you know, I'm super
excited to be part of your talk.
(49:05):
And congratulations to you onSavvy Susanna.
SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I love the book.
So good.
Well, I'm glad you can relateand identify because that's
really what it's about.
Moms pushing forward their uhentrepreneurial thread and
empowering their their childrento to do their own thing and to
fail forward and to learn fromthose mistakes, and especially
(49:28):
in handbags, because those areour people, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, thank you again.
It's really been a pleasure.
Thank you, Joy.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewand follow us on every single
platform at handbag designer.
Thanks so much.
See you next time.
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