Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to the
Hanging with Humans podcast.
I'm your host, rj, and I didn'tpress record.
Hello, welcome to the Hangingwith Humans podcast.
That looks good.
It's me, rj, and today I have awonderful guest, sam Ames.
Right, ames, yeah, yes, how areyou doing today, sam?
(00:22):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You had a little bit
of nervousness coming into this.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What was going
through your head when Chris,
your wonderful boyfriend, rightBoyfriend or Basically spouse,
basically spouse, when he toldyou, hey, I want you to do a
podcast, or RJ wants to know ifyou do a podcast with him, what
was one of the first things thatcame to mind?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I don't know.
I guess I've listened to somepodcasts and I think they're
really cool and I was like yeah.
I'd be about that, but then,when the time came, I got
anxious, you know, because I waslike well, hopefully he has
questions, because I don't knowexactly what to say.
I have many of them because youcan guide this.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm gonna guide the
shit out of this.
Uh, I think you've lived a avery uh fast life, interesting
life, uh, but I'm I'm happy thatwe get to do this because
there's been so much growth, uh,from from the things you've
gone through and and being inthis state of sobriety and um,
(01:29):
having you know, having a house,uh, and and having your family
together and all that, but likecoming from you know, not the
easiest uh living situationgrowing up.
So, yeah, starting with a fewthings, where were you born?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I was born in
Missoula, Montana, but I grew up
27 miles west in the town ofAlberton.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Alberton Montana.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's a quiet little
town.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
What's the population
?
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I don't know the
population, but I do know my
graduating class was 18.
18.
And, may I add, I was 11th inmy class, that's tiny.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I know that's so
crazy, I know so.
Alberton Montana, is it knownfor anything?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
The bookstore.
There's a bookstore therethat's like the I don't know,
it's not the, what is it therehave like the silver dollar bar,
but this bookstore I don't knowit's a historic place for how
many used books it has, but Imean it's a call it's just
Montana Valley bookstore.
(02:41):
I love books so much it's prettycool and you know the lady that
owns it.
I've known her my whole life.
We uh she left the keys in herpot machine once and we opened
it up and stole a bunch of sodaand all the change out of it
once and had to write a apologyletter because we got busted.
Obviously that's funny, but shewas kind enough not to, like
(03:03):
you know, seek out like penaltyfrom the law.
Yeah yeah, yeah so you grew upin.
Alberton.
So we're kind of talking aboutit.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
You grew up around.
Your parents were musicians.
Yeah, right, so you grew uparound the bar scene and that
you know playing music indifferent little bars and stuff
like that.
Growing up around that what?
What was a growing up inAlberton like for you?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
it was, I don't know.
I guess everybody kneweverybody.
So like it was kind of eventhough my mom might not have
been super consistent likeeverybody in the town like knew
us.
So you know, they say it takesa village and that was
definitely that kind of settingthere.
My mom's parents owned the baroriginally.
(04:05):
It was Chet's back then and nowit's Trax, and so she bartended
at Trax or Chet's.
I don't know, and they played alot of music and the park's
named after my mom.
And then in Missoula my momplayed at the house band, the
Top Hat.
Her band was the Night Snackersand she was the lead singer of
(04:29):
it.
That's a sick name.
Yeah, so I grew up at the TopHat skipping school to drink
Shirley Temples and playfoosball.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Foosball.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
The Top Hat Very cool
.
The top hat very cool, um.
So uh, kind of what I do withthe podcast is let let people
tell their stories, um, but ofkind of hardships and things
that they've gone through, uh,as well as the good things and
but things that they've overcometo, to kind of just show people
that you know we can getthrough these things, because
(05:02):
I've been everywhere and a lotof us go through all the same
struggles.
But you wouldn't know it unlessyou actually heard it or seen
it.
But there's a lot of people insmall towns all over that
probably go through a lot of thesame things.
So I guess, learning aboutlet's start with your parents.
Can you tell me a little bitabout your mom and dad?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, obviously they
were musicians.
Um, my dad, uh, won the gongshow at 17 and he played like
the dogo and the banjo, and thenmy mom grew up playing guitar
and singing, and so when theycame together, there was a lot
(05:45):
of I don't know, I guess whatmusicians have.
You know, I'd say sex, drugsand rock and roll, but I like to
say that about my parents.
Drugs and rock and roll, yeah,I don't know.
And they?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
uh, you said they did
like bluegrass music yeah
absolutely that's very cool umyou, so music kind of runs in
the family yeah um, there's aword that you threw out, luthier
yeah and uh, that's a new thingthat I learned today.
Um, and that's a person that,like, builds fixes, is it just?
(06:24):
Different instruments or justguitars.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I am not 100% certain
.
I believe that it just pertainsto guitars, because I know that
right now my brother is one ofthe luthiers in Missoula and he
primarily works on guitars andthen he has built a couple too.
But I don't know if that fallsunder being a luthier.
I just think that it's like aperson that like I don't know, I
(06:46):
guess fixes that's very coolyeah.
He did like not a mentorship,but somebody passed that down to
him right, yeah, yeah, if I hada better memory I could tell
you the guy who he, like um,apprenticed under, but I can't
(07:08):
quite think of it, but it wassomebody really important yeah,
yeah, like he was like one ofthe best, yeah, one of the best
that's very cool.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Um, so we're not
gonna talk about the sex, but
the drugs and the rock and rollpart, right?
Um, drugs are a part of, youknow, a lot of people's lives
and um, opioids was, was, it wasa thing um that, uh, addiction,
addiction has had been a partof your, your parents, life
(07:38):
style as well, right?
absolutely um, and as kids we'relike little sponges and we just
soak up everything and we kindof want to be just like our
parents and so you probably kindof went down a path.
Would you say it was from justbeing around it so much.
(07:59):
Is that kind of how like we'llget into your story, but being
around all of how like we'll getinto your story, but being
around all of that, do you thinkthat played a big part in your
addiction and stuff, like beingaround it as a kid so much and
all that?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely,
because I think if you weren't
around anything like that, itwouldn't be something that you'd
come into, you know, in life,definitely a product of my
environment, and not necessarilydrinking at this point, but
like the drugs and stuff, it wasa heavy portion of my youth.
(08:35):
Yeah, I think in my youngeryears I was more I don't know, I
guess adult about it becausebecause my parents were playing
music and gone a lot, I playedmore of like the parental role
in my adolescence and so like Idon't think it was tell I don't
(09:01):
know later in life that Iactually really was a big issue
to me.
I think I was very responsibleat a younger age but it
shouldn't even have been a thingto start with.
You know, it shouldn't havebeen a thing in general, but it
was you grew up pretty fast.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, absolutely Um.
Opioid addiction, um, and thendrinking your dad.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, my dad was a
big alcoholic.
I mean it goes hand in handwith playing music.
I definitely sat outside of alot of bars waiting for my dad
to get done, playing with hisfriends, I don't know.
I guess same in turn, with mymom using stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, I don't know
there's a term that you threw
out and it's actually the firsttime I heard it but eating the
cotton.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
What does that mean
exactly?
So you know, when people areintravenous users you filter?
the drugs with the cotton and Idon't know.
When I was younger I didn'treally know the I don't know.
When I became a junkie later inlife I understood more
(10:16):
thoroughly what that.
You know what it was.
But when I was younger and itwas a thing because my mom was
an IV drug user, I don't know Iused to eat her cottons and
stuff because when I was youngerit made me feel good.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I didn't necessarily likeunderstand the gravity of like
(10:38):
what it was.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Definitely not like a
thing as an adult with children
that I would personally do formy children, you know, I guess
yeah yeah, so I mean when we'renot in the best state of mind,
it's kind of easier to you knowhave lapsed in like judgment you
(11:01):
know for in parenting andthings like that.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I I've seen a lot of
things as a kid uh, when my dad
was on drugs that you know stillto this day.
Looking back, I'm just likewhat you know.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I was so young
Absolutely, and it's like one of
those things that like now asan adult and having you know a
relationship with my mom andstuff, like having you know a
relationship with my mom andstuff, like it's one of those
things that like she's kind ofblocked out, like she doesn't
believe it happened and it's notsomething like as a child.
(11:34):
I didn't just make it up either.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
no, yeah, you know,
that's the thing I um, I was one
of my friends I was talking toon the podcast.
She was talking about someabuse that happened as a kid and
she was trying to explain it toher mom and she was like I was
so young.
There's no way I could havemade those things up.
I didn't.
I wasn't allowed to watch TV atthe time.
How would I even know what thatis, you know?
(11:58):
But she's explaining it becausethat's what she remembers.
But yeah, blocking it out, it'slike you don't want to.
You know, the time is so dark.
I'm sure that it's.
It's, I don't know.
I don't remember a lot of mychildhood because it was so
gnarly.
You know, yeah, I get it, but um, yeah, no, that's, that's very
crazy.
Um so, yeah, that's kind oflike your introduction to it at
(12:20):
a very young age and I guess oneof the first big things that
happened was let's see daddropped out attempted heroin
bathroom.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I'm trying to Four
notes.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You're explaining how
you'd be hanging outside of the
bathroom, right?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I think you're
explaining how you'd be hanging
outside of the bathroom, right,I don't know.
Yeah, like as a child, uh, Ihung out around my mom and her
friends that were using a lot ofdrugs.
So you know, like a lot of mychildhood was like waiting for
my mom to get done in thebathroom with her friends or I
don't know.
There'll be like nights whereshe'd be like tweaking I'd be
(13:06):
like tweaking.
I'd be like mom, stop dremeling.
I have to go to school in themorning.
you know like just shitty thingslike my childhood memories are
like hanging outside ofbathrooms, weird fucking
circumstances with people beingweird dumpster diving.
You know like just being superembarrassed about I don't know,
my mom just being in the gripsof addiction, which I don't know
(13:29):
.
If she hears this I apologize.
Sorry Mom, sorry Mom.
I probably won't tell her tolisten to it Because I know she
has a lot of like guilt andstuff about my childhood or me
and my brother's childhood.
It wasn't just my childhood.
They just don't have therelationship I have with my mom
now yeah because my brother waskind of like you fucking suck
(13:50):
you just kind of, you know, wenthis own way is he older he's
older.
He's two years older and I knowhe feels differently about it.
I know my mom did the best shecould with what she had and I
appreciate her for that.
So I mean, it's all about beingfucking humble to the
experience, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Very true, do you
think?
Well, first your guys'relationship, you and your
brother's, how was that growingup?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Well, my brother was
my best friend growing up for
sure growing up.
Well, me, my brother was mybest friend growing up for sure.
And then, uh, when I startedlike getting into drugs and
stuff like that, he kind of tooka different route.
He took more after my dad notsaying my dad didn't use drugs,
but he was more into music sohim and my dad kind of clicked a
(14:42):
little bit better.
And then me and my mom, kind of, you know, went off on a
different path until my dadpassed away.
Obviously he was my best friendgrowing up until, you know,
into our 20s, and then when Istarted taking like the
addiction route he kind ofdropped off because I don't know
.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, just separated
himself from it.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, I feel like he
had his own battles, but not to
the extent of mine, and it wasdefinitely like I don't know, he
tried to remove himself, forsure.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, how's your
guys' relationship now?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Good, we didn't talk
for a while.
I don't know.
It was after my dad died andhe'd inherited one of my
father's vehicles and I was likesuper strung out.
I traded it, even though itwasn't mine to trade.
I like sold it to somebody andthen he found out and like I was
(15:40):
super mad about it so we didn'ttalk for several years until I,
like, got my shit together andthen kind of I don't know,
mended the fence and we've been,you know, as close as we can be
.
You know I sure fucking lovehim.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
But yeah, and
addiction is a son of a bitch.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Absolutely.
But yeah, it brings out theworst in people 't it it?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
absolutely does.
Um, so I know, um, uh.
So, while you're in high school, what, uh, what did, what did
kind of that look like for you,because I know some major events
happened around age 20 and 21.
Um, what did high school lifelook like for you?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
um, I mean during
high school I was definitely
like the.
It sucked, but I was like the,the kid that you're.
The other parents didn't wanttheir kids hanging out with
because, like you know, my momyeah, I had the drug house.
yeah, you know the drinking andstuff like that, and so I don't
(16:46):
know, there was a lot of, like,I guess, residual shame from it
because of like this stigma uponmy family.
My brother dropped out.
My dad fucking left us.
My mom was a junkie.
She ended up getting in troublefor like an attempted to
possess black tar heroin andlike I don't know, and we lived
(17:07):
in a really small town so itdefinitely was like carries
around.
Yeah, it fucking left mestained yeah um, I get that.
Yeah, there was definitely likea portion of it where, like, I
just wanted to succumb to thatfate of being just I don't know
part of a piece of shit.
Definitely like recovered alittle bit, yeah no, you're
(17:31):
doing great things right now.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
So I kind of had a
similar life lifestyle, high
school sort of situation, butone thing that helped me a lot
was playing sports.
Sports took me away from myhome life.
You know practice, being atpractice every day, and then the
camaraderie of being with mydudes and everything.
(17:54):
You played sports too.
Yeah, basketball and volleyball.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Absolutely.
I was MVP and VIP for my juniorand senior year and then I went
and was part of the basketballconference and I represented me
and this other chick representedAlberton for the western side
of the state, I don't know.
I mean obviously other peoplefrom the western side of the
state.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's a big deal
though.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It was nice.
And then my coach was supercool, because at that point I't
super, super into drugs, but Ismoked a lot of weed and my
coach was like man, I don't careif you smoke, but like you, you
show up and you do good so like, and it was like the first,
like you know, kind of supportthat I got from like a uh, you
know, mentor person in my life.
(18:42):
that was like positive andaccepting me, as is and I don't
know, we're still like friendson Facebook and I follow him
with his kids and shit and likeI don't know, it was kind of.
It was one of those wholesomerelationships that, like, I've
held dear to my heart, even asan adult.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Those are important
when your mom and dad, you know,
aren't there to give the rightlessons and give the right
support, and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah, he definitely
like had my back and believed in
me.
I don't know, there'sdefinitely a couple of those
people in my childhood that likemeant a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's amazing For
that fact.
Can you think of anyone elsebesides your coach that was that
type of support for you?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I mean, my coach was
the big one that was the biggest
one.
Yeah, I think so Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So, getting into the
nitty gritties, there are some
major events that happened inyour life, one of them being a
there's a house fire thathappened.
Yeah.
Can you kind of just kind ofwalk me through what life is
(19:55):
like?
Kind of leading up to thatpoint, and then what life is
like after that point.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, no-transcript.
(20:40):
I saw, I graduated and I saw inthe newspaper one of those
things that says you want tohave have fun, travel, make
money like little blurbs andyeah you know, newspaper and I
was like all right, cool, so Ihit it up and it was a traveling
magazine sales crew.
So I went and I went down tolike north carolina and I like
started selling magazines and Iwent to like north carolina,
(21:02):
florida, ge, florida, georgia,and then we were in um Nevada,
in Henderson, nevada, and I gota phone call that, um, there had
been a house fire and that mystepmom had died and so we flew
up from Henderson uh and she, soshe died in the house fire.
I guess I don't know exactly thecircumstances that, I don't
(21:25):
know if she was in the housefire, I guess I don't know
exactly the circumstances that,I don't know if she was in the
house, I don't know if she waslike smoking or it was candles,
but the house had caught on fireand my dad had came back to the
house on fire and her in theyard sitting on a bench like
completely burnt, and they endedup lifelighting her over to
Seattle where they she had toomany burns to survive and so
(21:47):
they end up.
I don't know if they pulled theplug or how I was.
You know it was when I was like20 or something, and so I don't
think I was like ascomprehensive to understand that
, you know so I'm not.
If it was something that had tohappen now, I would be able to
have a better detail, but I wasyoung and dumb and you know so
I'm not.
If it was something that had tohappen now, I would be able to
have better detail, but I wasyoung and dumb and, you know,
(22:09):
wasn't at a place to bereceptive to that.
So, yeah, she passed awaythat's.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's pretty gnarly,
what?
Um and you guys didn't havelike a terrible relationship,
right?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
no, I I liked her
enough.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I mean, originally I
didn't like her the
circumstances were kind of yeah,I mean I didn't like her.
The circumstances were kind ofweird, right.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, I mean I grew
to like her.
She wasn't a horrible personand I liked that.
My dad loved her, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
But she didn't
mistreat you, or?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
anything like that no
.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, that's gnarly.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I'm curious about the
magazine sales thing, I feel
that it was cool, I love.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I mean, I, I, I just
I.
I've always loved traveling.
I still, to this day, do it alot.
I think it's an important partof growth as a person.
Um, what?
What was your experience doingthat Cause?
Had you left Montana everbefore that?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
The only places I'd'd
been is from is Idaho,
washington and Oregon, and so Ijoined that crew and I went to
Tennessee, georgia, northCarolina, florida, nevada,
california, and they took me toMexico for Christmas no way yeah
, it was super cool and um notsaying I'm like really great
(23:25):
people skills now, but beforethen I was even more awkward.
So it really helped me likeopen up and like get more.
I don't know comfortable withlike talking to strangers and
like I don't know, just that'sso cool yeah, it was cool.
I wish that I obviously a lot ofthose experiences that I had
when I was younger.
(23:45):
I wish I would have had thecapability of comprehension you
know.
Same with, like my stepmomearlier, I don't know just a lot
of things.
When you're that young youdon't have the ability to
process it appropriately.
Have you know gratitudeappropriately?
Like I don't know, so, like Ididn't get to experience it the
way that I I would if I would bethere now.
(24:07):
You know like taking things inand being appreciative.
You know like a lot of thatcomes with life and experience
through like a whole differentlens 100%, but it was.
It was cool nonetheless and I'mgrateful that it happened that's
awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
There's a movie,
american Honey.
Have you ever heard of it?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, and it's about
it doesn't have Shia LaBeouf in
it and he sells magazines.
Yeah, that was my life.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Exactly, I actually
love that movie.
Yeah, it was ridiculous, it'scrazy.
Yeah, that's so nuts.
It was fun.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean, I had a lot
of fun with it.
It was a complete scam becauseyou didn't really make any money
.
When I came back, I actuallyowed because you're considered
to be an independent contractor,but I didn't get to travel.
You know, we were just absoluteshit kids and stayed in a bunch
of hotels and you know justwere acting like fools.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That's a good time
that's for the younger years.
A cool chapter, yeah for sure.
Um, and like the odds, like, oh, look at a newspaper, I'm gonna
just roll the dice and do that.
Like you couldn't be doinganything in the world at that
time.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And it was like a
legit one, because some people
like went to ones that were likescams but like I would sell
magazines to people that didn'twant them, so I just sent them
to my house and like all theseweird names and so I had a bunch
of like magazine subscriptionsto my house in Albert in like
under all these fictitious yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So the next kind of
major life event probably maybe
one of the biggest ones is yourdad passed away yeah 21 years
old yeah, it was three daysbefore my 21st birthday, um, and
(25:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
I think it was like a
year after my stepmom had
passed away and I was on a makeor I don't even think I was
selling magazines.
I was down in um, nebraska, Iwas living down in nebraska and
it was I don't know.
And I just talked to him theday before because it was
getting ready to be my birthdayand I was supposed to call him
back and I didn't.
(26:10):
And then the cops knocked at myhouse I don't know, or no, no,
they knocked at my brother'shouse.
My mom called me I think iswhat it was and the cops had
knocked on my brother's door andtold him and yeah, and think is
what it was.
And the cops had knocked on mybrother's door and told him and
yeah, and he passed away.
(26:31):
Originally we thought it was,um, I don't know what I was told
was sleep apnea, but when thecoroner's report came out, it
was an accidental methadoneoverdose and he died at his best
friend's house on the porch.
He was sleeping on hammock orsomething played me it was a
good time, though, because theyplayed music, you know, they
drank.
(26:51):
They were like having a goodtime and he went to sleep and
then he couldn't wake him up thenext day and then they called
the ambulance and then he waspronounced dead.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Wow, and so there's a
lot of worse ways you can go
out, though, for sure.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, you know, it's
kind of there's definitely After
Don passed away, you could see,I don't know I hate that my mom
wasn't the love of his life,but I felt like Don Was the love
of his life because you coulddefinitely See how much it hurt
him and he just kind of lost notnecessarily completely the will
(27:29):
to live, but I mean there wasdefinitely something that was
missing and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Do you know how old
he was?
Speaker 3 (27:39):
47, I think Don't
quote me on that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
That's still like had
a lot of life, still like had a
lot of life.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, he had a lot of
life left.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Man.
Do you think, if he's seeingyou right now and you know,
because you have some goodthings going on and there's been
a lot of growth and change forthe better do you think he'd be
proud?
Better, uh, do you think you'dbe proud?
Or?
Or, um, well, what do you thinkhe'd think of you?
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
now.
What kind of question, fuck.
He didn't see me in my worst,so I know my worst came when I
was like in my mid-20s.
I mean, he didn't see me at.
I think you'd be proud.
I think the worst part of thatis like, obviously, like him
(28:32):
never knowing my children yeah,or them not knowing him, or like
the fact at 21, you're not, um,at that state of being like
grateful yeah, you know, theolder you get in life, like loss
(28:54):
gives you clarity and likeappreciation for like
relationships and your abilityand like, I don't know, just
being humble to the experience,like knowing that you know this
relating could, just you know,like this could be the last time
(29:16):
I could see you, so like beingable to be grateful for every
moment with all the people thatmatter yeah, it's like a big
deal.
And like at 20 or 21 I didn'thave that.
So, like I didn't get a.
My dad was still fuckingannoying to me at that age, you
know.
Yeah, he was just annoying andembarrassing.
I didn't get a really dive intounderstanding him as a human
(29:40):
being and you know all thethings that, like, I have
appreciation for now.
I didn't get to have that forhim because I was so much
younger.
Yeah, so like.
Yeah, he would be proud.
I just wish I could have aconversation with him today,
with who I am to be able to likebridge that, you know, it's
(30:02):
fucked up, yeah um, yeah, I'msorry that happened.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
That uh did that kind
of start like a the spiral for
you because you got intoaddiction and um, was that like
a main thing?
That's like because he lost thelove of his life and it took
away something that led him tokind of there, um, did it, did
it do kind of something likethat for you I don't think that
(30:33):
it was a catalyst for my spiral.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
I don't think that it
I don't know.
I think it would have happenedregardless.
It wasn't like the reason formy downfall.
Yeah, I think the lack ofsupport didn't help.
For sure, I think that I wasalready destined for that path
of addiction, though from ayoung age, you know.
(30:58):
And once I got older and wasable to like branch out to being
my own person and forming other, really poor relationships with
men and life, yeah, it justkind of all was a, it was all a
factor.
I don't think him dying waslike it was going to fucking
happen regardless.
(31:18):
That was the path.
Yeah, you know that kind offailure was.
I mean, I am a product of myenvironment, so like that path
was meant to be taken at a youngage, yeah, Um, you, uh, there's
a let's see here Opioids.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Uh, was, that was a
big part of the destruction of
you.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, big part of the
destruction of you.
Yeah, I mean, I, I, from a veryyoung age I had done a little
bit of everything.
You know, like the first thingI did was smoke weed and I was
like third grade, which is supercrazy thinking about now,
looking at my children.
You know, yes, I know, when Iwas in fifth grade and I was at
a basketball tournament, my momgave me a lure tab and I ended
(32:10):
up kinking all over basketballcourt.
Oh, my goodness.
So you know, like in the cottonsand stuff, like it wasn't far
after that Like, so you know,before I was even in junior high
school, I was, like you know,fifth grade was smoking dope and
so like it was all there at asuper young age.
And so, like it was all thereat a super young age, I managed
(32:30):
it very decently as a child whoshouldn't be fucking dealing
with any of that.
Because I was the parentalfigure in my life.
You know, I didn't havesomebody telling me you can't do
this, you can't do that.
I had to like monitor thatmyself because I was trying to
do the best that I could.
So I was very like, welladjusted for a child, yeah.
(32:52):
And then, I don't know,definitely after my dad died and
stuff, I started having likeknee surgeries and.
I broke my hand, so I had thatkind of surgery and so I
definitely like dove into pillsa little bit more and like
started doing oxys with my momand I don't know just kind of
fell off really bad, I guess.
(33:14):
I don't know.
It's weird because itprogresses so quietly.
You know, one moment it'ssomething that's so simple and
like extracurricular, and thenext thing you know it's what
you're like world.
Yeah, it's like eclipsed intosomething that you know, because
I used to, when I had my firstcouple of surgeries, I trade my
(33:37):
pills for weed and then, as Igot older than like trading all
the weed that I could get forpills.
Yeah, it was like definitelyeclipsed, you know, and I didn't
start shooting up until I was27, thank God, because I don't
know how I would have made it ifI would have done it sooner,
you know.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, I talked to my
friend Autumn and you know she
was addicted to heroin.
She's now an awesome, famoustattoo artist, but she, she was
like it, just like that she goes.
It was like recreationallyevery other weekend, like not a
big deal, and then she was likebefore you know, it just
(34:18):
engulfed her took her soul youdid um.
That's crazy, um you're.
You had a toxic baby daddy for10 years I did uh was, uh was
the toxicity.
Did a lot of that come from druguse of both you guys together,
or what would you say that stemsfrom?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I mean, deep down, I
believe that he was a decent
human and he gave me my twobeautiful children.
Yes, but, uh, I mean, I believea lot of it know, nobody can be
at their best when they're inthe grips of addiction.
So, like you know, a lot of ithad to do with using, because
nobody can be, um, you know,proper mind when they're strung
(35:04):
out.
Yeah, um, I uh, I don't knowwhat's a tough one for me.
I'm like I want to dig on himtoo bad.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
He's in prison now
and he hasn't seen our kids in
five years.
So I mean, you know I wastelling you how I had, we had
been together.
We were together for 10 years,off and on, because we were
(35:37):
together for three years I hadmy oldest son.
He cheated on me and I left himbecause I found out.
And then he went to prison andthen he got out and he's like,
oh, I changed and like, oh, Ibelieve in you.
So I got back with him.
He cheated on me and I left himagain and then, third time, the
(35:58):
same fucking thing.
I love you, I'll do better.
I got pregnant the first time Isaw him after he got out of
prison.
So I moved over to Billings andI was pregnant with my Max, my
second son.
And shortly after I had him Ifound out the whole time I had
been with him in Billings he'dbeen selling heroin and using it
(36:18):
behind my back and it was.
I felt so fucking dumb becauseI had been clean for five years.
All of our friends knew it waslike this whole fucking, like it
was like the biggest conspiracyof my life, like his friends
were using, they're acting likethey were in recovery.
They fucking were like doingdiscreet buys.
(36:39):
While we're like at what, atlike going to the mall to buy,
fucking like I don't know,there's one chance, like one
thing that comes to mind.
We went to the mall and there'slike that fucking store that
you build a bear to mind.
We went to the mall and there'slike that fucking store that you
build a bear, and so we werethere building bears and he,
like, went to go meet somebodyjust and I don't remember what
the excuse was, but come to findout he was just selling him
(37:00):
shit and I was so fuckingoblivious and, um, I don't know.
So I ended up finding out.
It was just wild.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's such a wild
story for how I found out yeah,
um, that's tough when you're inrecovery, right you find?
Yeah, I was clean.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I'd been clean for
five years I was like doing.
Well, I'd already been throughthe homeless shelter, built my
life up.
He cheated on me and I got, youknow, left him and came back
and like it was just I don'tknow.
It's been a fucking mess.
But yeah, finding out that hewas like using again, I was a
big fucking fool.
Um, and then, instead of justleaving him and like taking my
(37:42):
kids and like going, I had likea three month old son and my
oldest was six and I fuckinglike all right, cool, you did,
you have heroin, you've beenselling heroin.
Like let's do it.
Like, instead of like taking andsaving face and like doing
better for my kids, I completelyface planted and got super
(38:05):
strung out with them.
You know we ran our life to theground within like four or five
months.
We didn't lose our apartment oranything, but like all of our
bills were due.
Like everything was going toshit.
You know, like people wouldbabysit my kids I shouldn't
babysit them.
And then he like peed dirty forprobation and they came to her
(38:26):
house.
They found a bunch of needlesand meth and they took to her
house.
They found a bunch of needlesand meth and they took my
children and they arrested myhusband and I sit in my flop ass
, flop house ass apartment bymyself after I'd been clean you
know, like I don't even relapsefor like four or five months but
like everything in my life justcame to like that was the but
(38:47):
like everything in my life justcame to like that was the rock
bottom for me.
It was like my husband wasarrested, my children got taken.
It's the only time in my entirelife that I've ever had CPS
involved and they took mychildren because I was unfit.
And then having them serve mepapers of neglect and abuse and
(39:16):
stuff like that, like it was, itwas heartbreaking, you know,
and we were in an apartmentcomplex and my neighbor bub, she
came down and she's like Idon't know what's going on, but
if you need somebody I'm herebecause she could just hear me
like just wailing and I, youknow, and I just sit there by
myself and I just picked updrugs.
So I like meth in my hat and abunch.
You know, it was just a messand I should have just flushed
(39:37):
it, but I didn't even and thisis probably not for the podcast
I sold it to my friend becauseit was broke as shit and then
and I didn't use and I likestarted picking up the pieces
and of course, I'd like figureout how to bond him out.
And then, you know, ourrelationship was fucking abuse.
So he was like being shitty tome, you know, not bonding him
(40:00):
out quick enough and not doingthis and that.
And then, when I did bond himout, then he was like staying
out late and drinking and Ifound out he's like fucking some
bitch from applebee's again.
Dude, applebee's bitches arethe fucking worst.
It was the second girl she does.
Twice in our 10-year fuckingrelationship.
You cheat on me with someapplebee's.
(40:20):
Oh, fuck you.
Yeah, so I don't know, insteadof like banding, you know, I
bonded him out and I thoughtlike, hey, we just lost our
children.
Like I stopped using drugs,like you should stop using drugs
, let's figure it out and getour kids back.
He was like out getting fuckedup, staying out with some
(40:43):
fucking bitches.
Yeah, you know, like I, I don'tknow I was so disappointed and
then, and then I don't know, hecut this out the way I found out
he was cheating on me.
It was like he left his brokenass fucking phone at her
apartment and I screen peeped itto the tv and he had gps
(41:04):
picture.
You know he had the gps on andshit and there was pictures of
him kissing some bitch and soand this is like after my kids
got taken.
So I'm like, all right, fuck youmotherfucker, and so I was like
I'm done, I'm done, and so Ifucking, you know, continued
like going to get my kids backand I busted my ass and I got
him back in four months.
I fucking just like fileddivorce papers and fucking left
(41:28):
him, and that's the last timeI've seen him actually.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
And he's in prison?
Yeah, he's in prison.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
He's a fucking
asshole.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Four months to get
the kids back.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yep.
So, you were working kind of awhatever job, right?
Yeah, it was a waitress at theDude Rancher Lodge in Billings.
I mean, it was obviously aminimum wage job but I got tips
and I just I don't know put mynose to the grindstone.
(41:59):
I did mental health counseling,addiction counseling.
I went to intensive outpatienttreatment.
I went to intensive outpatienttreatment.
I did daily visits with my kidat the center until they placed
them with one of my old bossesand then I'd do my visits there
and I literally did absolutelyeverything that I could to get
(42:21):
my kids back.
You know, I did random UAs andthen they did the drug patch on
me and like I'd heard so muchbad stuff about the drug patch,
like that I don't know I'veheard with the drug patch I
heard that like if you're inlike the wrong environment or
you're wearing clothes that youused to use it and stuff like
that, it can give you falsepositives and so I was so
(42:44):
paranoid about it that like Idid the drug patch and then I
went and dropped UAs outside ofwhat I was required.
Because I was so paranoid aboutit that like I did the drug
patch and then I went anddropped UAs outside of what I
was required because I was soterrified that something was
going to you know, keep me fromgetting my kids.
And it happened.
My patch spiked and luckily I'dhad actually UAs that I'd been
taking extra to like counter it,because she was trying to be
(43:06):
like oh, we could use.
No dude, I literally have a uathat's saying I am within you
know the legal limits or notlegal limits, because I wasn't
fucking using you know, it'sjust, it's the, it's like
nanograms or something on thepatch and like yeah, and I'm so
glad that I did that because Imean I'd heard horror stories
and at that point I was like sogung-ho on getting my kids back
(43:29):
that like nothing was going toget in my way.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, you even took
the extra steps to like, just in
case this shit fucks up,because it fucks up sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
You really wanted your babiesback.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
I wanted my babies
back.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Good on you.
That's a hard thing to gothrough.
Your mom, um.
So you, we talk a little aboutyour mom but like at the end of
the day, she was there like foryour kids and like take care of
them when you couldn't, andstuff like that.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yeah my mom's an
absolute fucking wild asshole.
But like, even like, it's ageneral theme and I don't know
if it was because of like thedifference in like, I don't know
.
Like, back when I was a kid, Idon't think CPS was as prevalent
in people's lives as they arenowadays, you know, because I
(44:26):
think you could get away with alot more.
So I don't know if it was likebecause of that time that she
was able to like squeak throughwithout like, because cbs was
never involved in my childhoodand it's a fucking miracle.
But even throughout like Idon't know my addiction and
stuff like, and even when I wasa kid, she was a big drug addict
(44:51):
when I was a child, but likeshe had a roof for us, she gave
me food and she like tried to bethere to the best of her
abilities, like I didn't.
You know, like some people thathave parents that are addicts,
like I'm not saying that thesituations I was in wasn't, I
don't know it was inappropriatefor sure, and definitely like,
(45:14):
but it could have been worse, Iguess.
Like my perspective on it waslike well, I had it bad, but
like it could have been a lotworse.
You know, I wasn't getting raped, you know, or like traded, or
like you know, I mean Idefinitely saw a lot more and
went through a lot more than Iwould ever want for my children,
but you know, like she did loveus, she did try, she was
(45:38):
consistent regardless with youknow, whatever version, like she
was still there trying, evenwhen she was like out of her
mind.
And so like when I was likefull-on in my addiction to the
point where, like I don't know Iguess the biggest thing about
my addiction and maybe shedidn't have that but like when I
(45:58):
was using, I told myself thatlike my kids were better off
without me that's what you toldyourself yeah, like my kids are
better off without me.
Somebody else can do better forthem.
So like I would stay away fromthem because I was using and
(46:18):
it'd be so hurt that I'd usebecause I wasn't around them.
And it was like this big fuckingcircle jerk of addiction and I
think any parent that's ever hada really gnarly drug addiction
can contest that.
That's like a part of it, likewe, or our addiction, tells us
(46:41):
that our kids are better ifwe're not around.
And that was like the biggest,that, like biggest portion of I
don't know what kept me awayfrom my kids for when, you know,
I was really messed up becauseinstead of seeing my having me
be super messed up around mykids, I just was not there.
(47:01):
Yeah, and in those portions mymom stepped into the best of her
abilities.
You know, and I mean to this day, like my kids, I don't think,
remember a lot of my addiction.
They don't remember a lot of myabsence.
Yeah, they do remember theirgrandma always being there,
(47:21):
though, and so that's like a bigyou know.
I'm grateful.
So, yeah, uh, in all the walksof life you know, like you said,
like all these people that youthink are your really good
friends, when you get down tothe nitty-gritty they're not
fucking there.
And like.
No matter how big of an assholemy mom has been throughout my
(47:42):
life or how big of a pain in myass she is, at the end of the
day she's the only person that'sconsistently like, had my back
and been there for me withoutyou know, any judgment or like
anything else.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
She's always been
there it's so crazy important it
really is.
Um, yeah, good on your moms.
She sounds, she's a.
She's still a wild assholetoday, still a wild asshole.
That's awesome, crazy grandma.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah, she's a crazy
grandma.
That's tough.
She's got my back.
I couldn't have my own so.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
That's good.
Two Okay, I think this was kindof a gnarly point, but it says
two-year relationship and then,oh yeah, two-year relationship.
Mom had the kids, but ten daysin jail, right.
Oh yeah.
Can we talk about that?
(48:41):
And then you've been clean eversince then, right?
Speaker 3 (48:52):
since then, right.
So after I lost my kids inbillings and I got them back
after four months, I would liketo say that's my last time using
, but, as any addict can tellyou, like the moment you think
you're done you're not.
So I'd gotten clean, got mykids back, was doing really good
.
Fell in love another poor, youknow toxic relationship.
(49:13):
Fell in love with somebody wholiked heroin and I happen to
have already liked heroin, solike I ended up following him
down that rabbit hole again, gotsuper strung out.
Didn't lose my kids, thoughprobably you know were you close
or like to losing them or no.
No, no, I had a stable housingand stuff.
(49:37):
My mom stepped in so she wasthere while I was out running
amok.
Yeah, she was there with mykids, um, because I couldn't,
you know, I didn't want themseeing me be a junkie, but it
was fine for seeing me be ajunkie, but it was fine for her
to be a junkie around him.
I guess, I don't know, it was areally shitty Way to look at it
.
It was.
It was and I'm ashamed, but Imean, shame gets nobody anywhere
(50:00):
.
So you know, it is just part ofmy growth.
So I'd been fell off for twoyears and then that really
shitty toxic love that I'd beenfell off for two years and then
that really shitty toxic lovethat I was in he ended up dying
in a car wreck and it completelybroke my heart.
But I don't know, it was likeone of those things.
(50:24):
I'm not like a big God person orlike, but I remember we were in
such a toxic cycle of likeabuse and like I don't know
PFMAs and like that whole youknow, just a really, really bad
cycle of toxic love and my kidshearing me get beat and stuff
(50:46):
like that.
Like I remember praying and Iwouldn't pray to god but I was
praying to the universe, like Idon't know how I'm gonna get out
of this and it makes me feelshitty.
But he ended up getting a carwreck and dying.
And I'm not saying like thatwas the only way out of it, but
like there is a part of me thatfeels like the universe had my
(51:08):
back and I don't mean to saythat in a callous way but
there's just some situationsthat I don't know how I would
have got out of that cycle withany other alternative.
I would never have gotten cleanagain, because his love for
heroin was vast and I loved himeven more and I just fell victim
(51:31):
to that cycle and so he passedaway and it absolutely like
broke me and it took me, I don'tknow.
He died in September and I felloff really, really hard and I
really didn't care for a littlebit.
And then I got arrested injanuary, um, in idaho, going
(51:53):
over to pick up some shit I'm soglad it was on the way over and
said, on the way back, becauseit was a simple possession and
uh, I went to jail for 10 daysand it was just long enough to
like get my mind right.
Um, I remember getting out andcalling my mom and telling her I
didn't know what I was gonna doand she's like, well, you
(52:13):
better fucking come home andjust take care of your kids.
Because I had a moment of likeyou know, am I gonna use or not?
Yeah, and uh, I don't know andI end up do.
I don't know it's an irrelevantportion, but I didn't use, I got
my shit together and, um, Idon't know, haven't used since.
(52:35):
That's amazing.
I definitely grabbed life bythe balls, did a lot of really
cool things, you know, to helpme.
Yeah, that's amazing.
It's been a fucking journey,that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
That's what life is
One crazy road.
Um, you, uh, you, went fromliving in a homeless shelter to
having the opportunity to buy ahouse.
Um, how did you get to there?
(53:11):
Uh well, you moved to Glendiveright when we're at right now.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Um yeah, can we just
uh, let's go with that.
I have excavating job right now.
I have moving to Glendive uh,homeless.
We just uh, let's go with that.
I have an excavating jobwritten down.
I have a move-in to Glendive Ahomeless shelter.
Speaker 3 (53:24):
Your notes are superb
.
So I got out of jail.
After 10 days I decided to stopusing completely Um.
I applied at an excavatingcompany.
I called them and I said hi, myname is Sam, I'm trying to get
my life together.
I don't know how to runequipment, but if you gave me
(53:46):
the opportunity to learn, Ipromise you would not be
disappointed.
And they gave me a job and so Istarted running equipment for
them.
Shout out to Grant Creek Um.
And I did that for the summer.
I absolutely loved it it.
I lost my house in Missoula soI moved to Alberton and then at
the end of the season I ended uplosing the house out in
(54:08):
Alberton.
So, like right when I wasgetting laid off for the winter,
I lost my housing.
So I moved in the homelessshelter with my kids, stayed
there till April and then Igotten my kids is grandma, you
know my Baby daddy's mom, yeah,she was like some help.
(54:32):
I prayed on it and you shouldcome to.
Glendive and I'm like no, IWant to go to Glendive.
That's not where I want to go.
Missoula is my home.
Yeah, not want to go toGlendive, that's not where I
want to go.
Missoula's my home, yeah.
But as I sat at the homelessshelter with my two children and
Brent's outrageous there, I,you know, molded over a little
bit more and I said you knowwhat?
What do I have here anyway?
Speaker 1 (54:52):
You know what do I
have to?
Speaker 3 (54:53):
lose.
Yeah, I moved over here intothis house.
It was a four bedroom house for$550.
Got into this house it was afour bedroom house for $550.
Got a big, old, nice yard.
You know, we'd moved threetimes in the last year so my kid
had to switch schools threedifferent times, you know,
before he moved here.
And it ended up being a greattransition.
(55:16):
And I remember when he firstmoved in there, my son son at
the time he he thought it wasour forever home and he's like
mom, we're never gonna have tomove again.
I had to be like, oh, I'm notreally sure if this is our
forever home and I'd asked heronce about being able to rent,
to own it.
She told me no.
And then, like I don't know,four or five months later, I
revisited it and she said let metalk to my family and I'll,
(55:38):
I'll get back to you.
And then she called me back andshe said let me talk to my
family and I'll, I'll get backto you.
And then she called me back andshe said that they'd be willing
to sell it to me at a fourpercent interest.
So, um, it was a I bawled myeyes out called chris.
You know I was like I'm gonnabuy a home.
You know I never, with how muchI've messed up my credit and my
(55:59):
life and all the things.
I thought it would be years offto be able to buy my own home.
So being able to tell my kidswe don't have to move again was
a really big deal.
And I don't know as much as Ihate the flatland.
Glendive has been the biggestgrowth for me as a human.
(56:19):
I was able to provide my kidsstability.
They've been able to do a bunchof like sports and stuff, which
is the first year I've beenable to do sports and how big it
was for me growing up and stufflike.
I was just really grateful tobe able to have them experience
that.
You know I went and got my CNA.
There you go.
I started.
You know I was working at thehospital but they pay sucky.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
So You're at the VA,
right?
Speaker 3 (56:44):
Yeah, I'm at the
vet's home now Super hard, but I
enjoy the people and I enjoythe purpose of you know, like
the work that I'm doing haspurpose, or at least it does to
me.
Yeah, definitely, you know.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
That's amazing.
Yeah, it does to me.
Yeah, definitely, you knowthat's amazing.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
Um, yeah, no, glenn
dive the flatlands, the badlands
.
Uh, it's not the, not so badly,not so bad, uh it's.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
It's been a crazy
ride for me to get here as well
and, um, I went and was part ofa homeless veterans like a
relocation sort of nonprofit andfor some reason the name
escapes me and that makes me sadthat I can't remember it.
But some amazing people inBillings that helped me out very
(57:36):
much and, yeah, I owe them alot.
I'm very grateful for them verymuch and yeah, I owe them a lot,
I'm very grateful for them.
But, um, no, this place hasbeen a lot of growth for me as
well, and this is the probablythe first time having a place
all by myself, you know, whetherthat be an apartment or house
(57:58):
or anything, but like takingcare of it by myself and having
my kids come down to montana forthe first time was a like a
bucket list thing for me, youknow, because I I moved away
many years ago and kind offollowed them around and and
decided to settle in montanabecause I wanted to give them
the experience of like thewestern montana experience, so I
was planning on having them outin the mountains all the time.
Speaker 3 (58:20):
I'm gonna get the
eastern side, exactly, it's okay
it is okay listen, I had astigma on the west or the
eastern side of the state mywhole life and even though this
is the last place that I thoughtI'd wind up, I'm super grateful
.
That's where I am, absolutely,you know yep, I I feel the same
way.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
We talked about
people not being there when you
hoped they would be or you thinkthey would be, or you just and
then them not being there, andhow hurtful that can be and how
much that can affect you andtrust and things like that.
(59:01):
Um, but can you tell me alittle bit about your chris and,
uh, how he's a support systemfor you?
Speaker 3 (59:09):
um, absolutely please
do the person.
I didn't think I ever.
I don't know, I didn't thinkthat I'd ever have him.
I, when I first met him, I solike, obviously I've had a slew
of poor relationships and reallyshitty men in my life and so
when I met him I wasn't at aplace of self-worth or like does
(59:34):
you know, I just didn't think Iwas deserving.
And so when I met him he wasunapproachable to me and like
out of my league.
And then come to find out downthe road he just liked me too
and uh, I don't know.
And then just being guarded andstuff.
I wanted to wait to see if hewas really about I don't know,
(59:56):
just regular ass life.
You know, because I'm I'm done,um, following a person that I
think is for me in thesituations that aren't you know,
like I am wholeheartedly likeafter this last stint in jail
being there, and because Ithought I was going to go to
(01:00:17):
prison.
I have a lot of felonies and Ithought that I was going to go
to prison and so when they letme out after 10 days, I had this
grand realization that, liketheir dad's not there for them.
Every child deserves one parentthat's going to step up for
them and put all their shitaside.
Giving addiction isn't somethingthat is even.
(01:00:37):
You know that shouldn't even bean issue.
You know it shouldn't, it's notsomething that should even be
an option.
But you know poor choices itwas and so like at that point,
like understanding that, like mykids need a parent and that's
parents gotta be me was like abig deal to me.
And so, um, realizing that Iwould no longer let that I don't
(01:01:03):
know other situations get inthe way of me being a good
parent, and so, like he hadexpressed desire of wanting a
relationship, but obviously he'sgot his own walks and, um, his
own issues with addiction andstuff.
I wanted to make sure that hewas really about it, obviously
(01:01:24):
because I've had my own problems.
I wanted to give him grace andwe've had a couple of cups, but
he has full-heartedly steppedinto my life as a supporter and
the perfect partner.
The perfectly imperfect partnerbecause nobody's perfect and
he's taking it with stride and Idon't know.
(01:01:47):
I've never had support likethat.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
I'm very happy for
you.
I'm going to look for my ownChris out there, but a female
version of him he's an asshole,but man he's worth.
He's an asshole but man, he'sworth it.
He's my asshole.
He is my asshole.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
We could only get
into how we really met with
Brickstack.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Well, I'm planning on
interviewing him too.
Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
He's got a good story
and he's probably a little
better talker than I am.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
He can talk.
He's a talker, that's how he gotme.
So you're redeeming right now,you know, this portion of your
life, this chapter.
There's a lot of redemption, Ifeel like Absolutely Probably a
lot of things your dad would beproud of and I'm sure your mom's
(01:02:42):
proud of you, do you?
Oh, there's like a random thingbefore I forget, though,
because we were talking aboutAlberton, and it's just a random
little thing but circling backthe park in Alberton and, um,
the, it's just a random littlething, but Circling back,
circling back the park, the parkin Alberton, yeah, just because
(01:03:07):
historically it sounds cool.
Can you like kind of explainwhat's up with that?
Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Well, you know,
obviously, like I grew up in
Alberton, my mom's family's fromAlberton the park there, the
bar, used to be my grandpa's,but the park is now dedicated to
him.
It's the Hank Rote MemorialPark.
The house I grew up in was madefrom the old Milwaukee railroad
(01:03:35):
logs, because the old Milwaukeerailroad ran through Alberton,
so the house I grew up in wasbuilt from that too.
Yeah, it was kind of a.
I don't know weird.
That's pretty cool.
We're big shit in a little town.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, it was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Um, what, uh?
What are your future plans?
You've already accomplishedprobably a lot more than you
thought you would, or at leastin the time frame.
You're 37.
You don't look that at all,thanks.
What do you got planned forthese next couple years?
(01:04:12):
I know your kids are in sportsand stuff.
Are you enjoying watching that?
Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Yeah, Seeing my kids
play soccer was like the coolest
experience because, you know, alot of the things that I have
now are things that I didn'tthink were possible and it's it
seems so simple, but like Idon't know a lot of my friend
(01:04:41):
like drug addicts like meusually don't get their kids
back.
Drug addicts like me don'tusually, you know, excel in like
fixed things, like it's usuallyjails, death and institutions.
You know like a lot, a lot ofmy friends have died, a lot of
chris's.
You know like we're in prisonor repeating the same toxic
(01:05:01):
cycle.
So like the it seems so simpleto a lot of people that haven't
had that kind of life, but likebeing able to, you know, have
them in sports or like show upfor their concerts.
You know my kids didn't bam,like all that stuff.
You know it seems so simple andlike, yeah, innocent, but like
(01:05:23):
to someone like me, those arehuge milestones.
So, yeah, it has beenabsolutely, uh, a lot of great,
but like a lot of gratitude forbeing able to experience that,
because there's a time in mylife where I didn't think it was
possible.
Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
That's amazing.
I just got back from doingChristmas with my kids in Kansas
.
Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
It's a big deal, man.
Like I was saying earlier about, comprehension is key.
There's so much stuff in myyounger years that I took for
granted that after a lot of lossand a lot of pain and stuff, it
humbled me to the experienceand now I'm able to like I won't
(01:06:05):
say fully comprehend, because Idon't think, you know, I can
understand it the best of myabilities, but it is vast at
this point in my life.
You know like I have a lot ofgratitude for that stuff.
Simple, small things, yeah, andI guess that's you know why.
When it comes like wanting more, I don't really want a lot more
(01:06:26):
because I got everything that Ineed.
You know, I got absolutelyeverything that I need.
Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Yeah you're yeah,
it's like when you don't have
nothing or you've gone througheverything, just having
stability and just having youknow those little things like
going to the soccer games orjust like that's everything,
because you don't even thinkeverything is possible and you
(01:06:53):
take, you know like, unlessyou've been through all the
things, it's something that'staken for granted.
Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
You know, absolutely
at this point I don't take any
of it for granted.
So I feel like completelyblessed and I don't know.
I'd like to yearn for more, butI don't.
You know, that's what I got himfor, you know, to push me.
I'm cool just being a mom,consistent mom, having a roof,
having chickens you know, I gotall shit, I got everything.
Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
That's amazing.
Yeah, you guys have done it,and you know, Chris is a
go-getter.
So I'm sure, whatever moregoals or, you know, leaving a
third one, don't push it.
Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
No, I'm supportive.
Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Don't push it.
Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
I'll ride that
Cocktail.
Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I'm going to do like a couplerandom questions and then I'll
let you go, because I'm gonna gowork tomorrow.
Um, where?
Where's your favorite placeyou've ever traveled to?
So.
Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
I don't know, my
heart's in Western Montana so
there's a lot of places overthat I really liked, but it
wouldn't really be abroad.
But I really liked Florida.
I can't say a specific place,because it was like around
Kissimmee.
It was just really tropical andnice feeling because I grew up
here.
So it was very different andobviously the fruit trees were
(01:08:24):
phenomenal, um, but multnomahfalls in oregon was one of like
the really cool experiences.
I don't know.
We uh took some ghb and walkedup these waterfalls, like walked
up the creek to a waterfall.
It was like like a reallywholesome experience, that's
awesome.
I was super young then too.
(01:08:44):
I didn't even have kids at thatpoint but it was very neat.
Where's the coolest placeyou've been to man, it's hard to
just say one.
Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
I know, wow, let's
see, I'm gonna think in my
memory banks really fast.
Um, actually, I just got backfrom Portugal, not that long ago
, did you?
I did?
It was like the first time inmany years that I've been, but,
um, I didn't realize how centralmy place is to like all the
(01:09:26):
cool things.
Like all the cool things, yeah,15 minutes north, uh, like the
sickest castle I've ever been to, and the road that like winds
up, it's it's got to be like Idon't know 10 miles, but it's
like super windy.
And this road it's like made oflike little square pieces of
(01:09:49):
like stone that's.
It's kind of it's weird, it'slike paved that way.
Yeah, but forever and ever asfar as the eyes can see, ever
and ever as far as the eyes cansee.
But it's also going up thismountain, uh, and this mountain
has like the second largesteucalyptus tree in all of
portugal, so it has thesemassive trees overlooking like
(01:10:10):
everywhere, so it's all shadedand it's just so beautiful.
And then you finally get to thetop and you drive and, uh, it
kind of looks like the ShiningOutside.
There's like all these hugemazes like grass, tall, like
sort of mazes, and it's likethis huge maze thing.
And then you drive around itand you get in the castle and
(01:10:31):
it's completely like I don'tknow how much money they put
into reserving it, like keepingit really beautiful.
And you go inside and theartwork, the stonework, the
paintings, they're all from likeoriginals from way, way, way
back in the day, uh, and we meand my dad and, uh, his buddy,
(01:10:52):
victor, uh, we sat down, hadcoffee and uh, it used to be
like the Kings where he wouldeat and have brunch and have
people and it's just, theceilings are probably like 60
feet tall, um, and then I walkedinto another room just kind of
sneaking around, and victor, hewas like you can actually like
(01:11:15):
you can reserve and eat herelike restaurants, and sure
enough, I go and I look andthere's like this beautiful menu
and it's just a place that likeI'm absolutely gonna go back
and have dinner there had youbeen there before never okay, oh
shit, yeah, I haven't beenthere before.
Huh whoops, that was the wholequestion.
Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
It's okay, no, I mean
no, but you, you've been there.
Yes, I mean, that's technicallythe place yes, true, yes, I was
just wondering if there youknow, like as reference, you
know of like like I was saying,like appreciation grows as you
get older and understand, and solike if it was someplace you
visited as a child that youdidn't fully understand and like
(01:11:53):
went back to and you're like,oh, fuck man, I've been missing
out.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Yeah, I have like a
brain injury.
Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Oh, blame it on the
TBI.
Blame it on the TBI.
Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Maybe I haven't been
just cool.
Okay, check this out.
I lived in LA.
I moved from Helena Montana toLA.
I was trying to myself and Iremember I called my sister from
the hospital, Not reallyremembering even like the state
that I was in that I even calledher.
Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
But to tell her that
I was in the hospital.
And so she calls me the nextday and she goes.
Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
I want you to sell
all your shit, get rid of
everything, sell your truck andbuy you a one way ticket to LA.
You come live with me.
And so I went and did that andI lived with her awesome
roommate, laura Shouts out toLaura and I was trying to find
myself and trying to bettermyself and I thought that like,
(01:12:55):
oh man, how do you betteryourself in like LA, like it's
just one big party kind of, butit's who you surround yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
I don't say, shit is
where you.
You know everything can be howyou make it, yes, exactly and do
you think, um, like strugglingwith mental health?
because I've never like suicidethe only time I've ever been
suicidal is in a shittyrelationship.
That's the only time that I'veever wanted to die and I will
say that about addiction,nothing will take you back to
(01:13:24):
relapse or poor mental statesmore than a poor relationship
and so like, um, so likestruggling, like with mental
health and stuff like that.
What do you think is like?
I don't know, what do you thinkis like the the biggest thing
that you could say to somethingthat's struggling.
(01:13:45):
You know, like time, right,give it time give it time.
Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
But, um, find, find,
find the things that.
What was the way it was it wasexplained to me?
You gotta find the things that.
What was the way it wasexplained to me?
You got to find the thingsthat'll the tools that you need
to help yourself heal.
And maybe those tools lookdifferent for other people, but
(01:14:14):
for me, being in a good cycle ofwaking up very early going, to
the gym Routine.
Routine, yes, routine Doing.
That is like the first part oflike exercising your body, like
(01:14:37):
there's, you know a thing withendorphins and shit that happens
with that.
Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
Yeah, utilizing your
body's natural resource to
produce chemicals that'll makeyou happy exactly, smarty pants,
exactly that.
Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Uh, grounding,
grounding myself.
Uh, I went back to montanabecause the mountains, they,
they heal me, they have healedme.
Um, I was not born and raisedin mont Montana, but it's the
only place that I was able toheal.
But I found the tools withinmyself here.
I realized that I can be out ofreception in five minutes if I
(01:15:12):
wanted to make that drive.
And once I started to shut offsocial media, starting to oh
yeah, the noise, the noise, youknow, um, all the, the talking,
that that that people areinvolved with, and and I was
like I'm not a part of that, I'm, I belong out here, you know,
grounding myself and, um,meditating is a big thing.
(01:15:36):
That.
That changed my life.
Um, and my sister, I watchedher get into that, uh, and and
she's like my hero, I looked upto her very much and older
sister, younger sister, oldershe's seven years older um katie
perry's personal chef I wastelling you
yeah, uh, yeah, shouts out todray, um, yeah, she, uh, she
(01:15:59):
showed me she's been throughhell and um, she's accomplished
so much, um, but she neverreally gets frazzled.
She never really gets like overupset.
She never.
She never wastes her energy onthings that she doesn't need to
waste them on.
You know, things that make youupset, like like the social
(01:16:20):
media thing.
Well, if I just turn my phoneoff and I go out in the
mountains, then eventually it'sjust not going to be a part of
my life and I started to kind oflive by that and then
meditating was kind of the nextstep for me.
Since I moved to this place,I've been on my own and when I
start to get sad or I start tofeel massive amounts of anxiety,
(01:16:44):
I've developed a very gnarlyanxiety that I never had before
within the last year or so.
But I've been able to combatthat with being able to ground
myself, meditating, get outside.
It's so important to getoutside and get sun and vitamin
D.
I think nature heals us.
(01:17:07):
We come from nature.
Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Do you think that
your personal anxiety comes more
from being connected to all thethings Like do you think that
you like, say, you have yourphone off and you're not on the
Internet, you're not on theinternet, you're not on facebook
, you're not on, you know, andit's just you by yourself?
Do you think that your anxietyis like at a higher level, or do
you think it's when you're withall the outside stuff, fucking
(01:17:32):
with?
You, it's the outside stuff.
That's how I feel too it is theoutside stuff all the things and
all the things that people aredoing and all the things that
I'm not doing.
Comparatively, like we weretalking about the other day,
that comparison is a thief ofjoy.
Yes, you know, you sit here andbecause we're so connected with
everybody that we tend to likeI don't know compare ourselves
(01:17:53):
you know, like I'm not wherethey are, not, you know, and the
internet makes it so that youcan know what everybody's doing
at all the points.
And the internet only shows thepretty parts, you know.
It doesn't show people, youknow, struggling with mental
health.
It doesn't show people, youknow, struggling with like
day-to-day activities that mightbe easy for some people but,
like you know, as like drugaddicts, like just the bare
(01:18:13):
minimum, like I was talking withChris, like basic things like
doctor appointments, likescheduling things like doctor
appointments, like scheduling,like you know, all these things
that are just very simple tolike regular people, like are
huge feats for us and then likebeing able to see people doing
it with such ease makes us feelinsufficient in some way, shape
(01:18:33):
or form, and so like, definitelylike having that it's cool to
be connected, but like sometimesit's not cool because it robs
us of just our individualexperience you know like we're
too caught up in fuckingcomparing ourselves to what we
don't have versus what all theseother people have, which what
they have is probably evenfictitious, because it's all
(01:18:53):
fucking put on.
You know it's all fake what youwant people to see yeah, you
know, it's all the glamorousshit when life is very
unglamorous it is.
Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
It is um I.
I struggle with it because Iknow how much I have to be
connected because of this yeahum, and it's always beneficial
for a business to be involved inin the social media, marketing
and advertising aspects.
But, um, my thing now is justfinding the right balance yeah,
(01:19:23):
the happy medium, because youhave to do what you need to to
get it out there but also foryour own mental well-being and
health as soon as I putsomething out, I walk away and I
don't look at anything I meanthere's so many people like
negatively.
Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
You know, like my son
keeps talking about how he
wants to be like a youtube star,tiktok famous I'm like no, you
don't.
I was like, that is such a Imean like it would be phenomenal
if you could.
You know land that, but I don'twant you sitting there
constantly worrying about whatsome stranger thinks about you
you know, as a parent, that'sthe last thing that I hope I can
(01:19:58):
doing.
I understand where you're comingfrom for this because like it's
a very healthy, like spreadingawareness, sharing stories and
like people's triumphs and stufflike that, because it is
helpful.
It is nice to know you know, atthe end of the day, you're not
the only one struggling.
You're like hearing people'sstory because somebody else
might relate and, you know, givethem strength.
Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Story because
somebody else might relate and
give you know, give themstrength, but like I don't know
you nailed it exactly, though.
Yeah, uh, it's a very much adouble-edged sword for me.
Um and like if, even if youjust look at, like the suicide
rates in kids and teenagers,especially in young females, uh,
since social media became athing, it's the numbers are
staggering, absolutely awful uh,my kid wants a phone.
Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
I'm like, nope, he's
12, he still doesn't have a
phone, he doesn't have facebook.
I don't want him to have that,because when you're that young,
you don't have the awareness youknow.
Like I said, comprehension iskey.
You can't comprehend shit atthat age and I don't want him
feeling like he's not goodenough.
I just don't want any of thatstuff that social media brings.
Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
It's crazy.
They take iPads away fromlittle kids.
You see the videos of it andthey just go like Dude.
Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
we've had to fight
tooth and nail to keep our kids
off of YouTube.
Because grandma lets them taketheir phone.
They get on YouTube, they doom.
Then it's like this it's likean addiction, it is and it's I
don't know.
It's messed up because I wantthe best for them.
Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
I don't know anyway,
I uh, what I do, like I do
marketing and advertising forother people and their small
businesses, but all I do is meand jj, we go walk and I have
flyers over there, businesscards, and I just go talk to
people.
I meet people because that'swhat I do with this.
Yeah, um, but yeah, it's a.
(01:21:50):
Eventually I'd like to get thisto a point where I don't have
to do it at all and people justknow where to go to find it and
all I have to worry about isdoing this part, which I love.
This is my dream right nowbeing able to sit, talk,
interview people, because Ilearn so much about myself.
I start to think about thingsI've gone through and I don't
(01:22:14):
know.
I feel like everybody justbenefits from it.
But yes, to answer yourquestion, like what was it again
something about?
Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
oh, what do?
Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
I do to, to mediate,
mitigate the what is it?
The mental health issues andstuff um, yeah, meditating has
been a huge thing for me.
Uh, nutrition what you put inyour body is so important.
I stopped drinking two yearsago around there.
Um that, that changed my entireworld.
(01:22:48):
I would not be able to be,doing this right now, if I was
still drinking, would not beable to do that um, so that's
been a huge thing.
So, yeah, not everybody needsto like, quit drinking or do
anything.
Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
No, it's everybody's.
I mean you can only do what'sright for you, and I mean I
think I mean, if you're drinkingexcessively, everybody could
deal with not drinking a littleless.
You know I mean, but it goeswith anything.
You know anything to an excessis you know I mean, but it goes
with anything Exactly.
You know anything to an excess,is you know not?
(01:23:24):
Fruitful Exactly Finding thebalance is key.
Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
It is key.
I think we nailed it.
Last kind of thing, though Fireaway Shh.
If you want to thank anybody orif there's any shout-outs or
anything you want to put outthere.
Now's your time, and then maybeif you have anything to say on
(01:23:55):
mental health as a goodbye onyour take, I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
Okay, I don't know,
I'm so awkward.
I'd like to shout out to myfantastic husband back there
sleeping Obviously you forhaving me, my mom, because she's
been an asshole, but my biggestsupporter.
And my beautiful children,children, and I don't know all
(01:24:23):
the people that believed in meon the way when I couldn't
believe in myself.
Um, obviously, on mental health, uh, an addiction, uh,
sometimes things take time andyou gotta give yourself grace
with that and all the hardchanges don't happen quickly and
(01:24:46):
it takes a lot of time andapplication.
So, uh, I don't know, it took alot of just going through the
motions and doing the next rightthing before I actually started
seeing changes before I startedlike feeling them in myself and
so, like I don't know, justgive yourself grace and a big
(01:25:09):
lump of time, cause I mean shit,today is gonna be a lot
different in three months and ifyou don't wait around to see
that difference, then I don'tknow you're robbing yourself of
opportunity.
So I don't know you're robbingyourself of opportunity.
Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
So I don't know.
Those are very, very, very,very, very good words, sam.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Yeah, thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
I appreciate it and
thank you everybody for watching
and.
Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
I'm going to try to
Tune in next time.
Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
Tune in next time.
I'm going to try to do a couplemore before the New Year's.