June 23, 2025 • 29 mins
Relationship and intimacy coach Monica Tanner joins us to unpack the damaging marriage advice many of us have accepted as truth. Drawing from her seven years of podcasting experience and three years exclusively coaching couples, Monica reveals why seemingly innocent phrases like "happy wife, happy life" and "don't sweat the small stuff" actually create disconnection and resentment in relationships.
Monica shares details about her upcoming book, "Bad Marriage Advice: Debunking Myths That Will Make You Miserable and What to Do Instead," which evolved from a heartfelt letter to her soon-to-be-married son. The conversation digs into why telling couples "divorce is not an option" often backfires, removing motivation for growth rather than strengthening commitment.
The most practical segment focuses on Monica's three-step formula for making effective requests in relationships. Instead of complaining about what you're not getting, she teaches how to identify what you want, make your request "stupidly easy" to fulfill by being specific, and show gratitude for any progress. This approach transforms communication patterns and creates positive momentum in relationships.
We also explore the powerful garden metaphor for marriage—how beliefs planted by others in our childhood need tending, weeding, and sometimes complete replanting as we grow and face life's transitions together. Monica emphasizes the value of seeking relationship support before crisis strikes, sharing stories of proactive couples who establish relationships with coaches early in their marriages.
Whether you're struggling with communication issues, feeling disconnected, or simply want to strengthen an already good relationship, this episode offers practical wisdom for creating a marriage where both partners feel valued, heard, and cherished. Ready to transform your relationship? Listen now and discover how to replace bad marriage advice with strategies that actually work.
Monica Tanner Guest Information
Monica Tanner, RLT trained, Relationship Coach and host of the Secrets of Happily Ever After podcast, transforms marriages with simple communication, connection, conflict resolution and commitment strategies. Her mission is to lower the divorce rate and improve marital satisfaction. Through her engaging podcast, new book, Bad Marriage Advice, vibrant social media community, and couple’s coaching practice, Monica's expert guidance has impacted thousands of couples, by helping them ditch resentment and roommate syndrome and get back to living their happily ever after love story.
website: https://monicatanner.com
book: https://badmarriageadvice.com
podcast: https://secretsofhappilyeverafter.buzzsprout.com
Have you gotten on the waitlist for my new book - Bad Marriage Advice? You can do that HERE!
Please follow me on instagram and facebook @happilyevenaftercoach and if you want to see what coaching is all about I offer a free 45 min. clarity call via zoom.
Email me: hello@lifecoachjen.com for any comments or questions.
Thanks for listening, please like and review as well as share with your family and friends.
My website is www.lifecoachjen.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to my podcast , happily Even After.
I'm life coach, jen.
I'm passionate about helpingpeople recover from betrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast Today.
Today I have a special guest onthat I'm really excited about,
and I actually had her on a fewweeks ago and I completely
forgot to push record.
I'm recording our podcast,which is so typical of something
(00:55):
that I would do, but anyways,we are back and I'm actually
recording it.
So you're going to hear howamazing she is.
But her name is Monica Tannerand we've never met in person.
We were just introduced by amutual acquaintance, actually
the person that edits and makesmy podcast sound amazing, and
(01:15):
it's funny because her podcastis called Happily Ever After,
and so we for sure should befriends, since we have a very
similar thought process whencreating.
So, anyways, her name is MonicaTanner and I'm going to let her
introduce herself and we'll gofrom there.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, hi.
Thank you so much for having me, jen, for the second time.
Yes, I am a relationship andintimacy coach and expert.
I work with couples to increaseintimacy and rid them of
resentment and roommate syndrome.
I have been doing this I havebeen podcasting for about seven
(01:56):
years and I've been coachingexclusively couples for about
three years.
So lots, lots of experience andlove working with couples.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, me too.
I have such a soft spot formarriages, like even though my
marriage ended in divorce, likeI'm very pro marriage, so I
think if people can figure itout, that's so much better than
I mean, divorce is sometimes theright answer, but I just think
if people could figure it out.
(02:27):
And we just don't know what wedon't know when we get married.
So I know you wrote a book andI'd love to hear about that.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, so the book is called Bad Marriage Advice,
debunking myths that will makeyou miserable and what to do
instead.
And so the impetus behind thebook was that my oldest son is
getting married and I rememberhim telling me that he was
getting married and I was soexcited for him and I sat down
to write, like all of you know,my thoughts and advice on.
(03:00):
You know what I've learned inmy own 23 years of marriage, as
well as working with couples,and that little love note turned
into a full-blown book.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So it's been really fun to write.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, it's been fun to write and I hope that it will
be helpful not only for him andhis new wife, but also for
married couples, young and old,who have been married a short
time and a long time.
Hopefully it brings a smile toyour face and hope into your
marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, and I think there are so many myths that we
are all told, like when we getmarried, and I think people
think kind of they're funny orthat maybe they believe they
really will work.
I don't know, but I thinkthere's a lot of myths out there
that for sure need debunking.
So what are some of yourfavorites that we can talk about
(03:53):
?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, there's so many favorites, but the one that if
you marry the right person,they'll never hurt you.
That divorce is not an option.
Never go to sleep angry.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Happy wife, happy life.
A good wife keeps her husbandfulfilled.
(04:14):
I mean we can start anywhereand talk about any of those.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, those are well.
Happy wife, happy life.
Like I feel like I heard that alot and I felt like my former
husband used to say that and itmade me so mad.
Oh, yeah, it was so irritatingbecause I'm like well, you're
clearly not making me happy,right?
Because he was cheating on meand lying to me.
So I'm like you make no sensewhen you say that.
(04:39):
So tell me what's your thoughtson happy wife, happy life?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, I think it's really cliche and I think it's
kind of cute.
You know, I think men say itand women are like, oh, how
sweet he wants to make me happy,right?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I did not think that.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But it's really, really hard to create a
relationship for two people whenonly one person's wishes or
desires are being fulfilled.
Not only that, but it puts alot of responsibility on the
person who, you know, issupposedly wearing the pants or
has all the responsibility orneeds to be happy all the time.
So I think it creates a lot ofproblems, not only for the
(05:22):
person who has the bulk of theresponsibility, but also for the
husband in this case, who waslike oh, you know, I always
defer to the wife.
You know, I always whatever shewants, I just do whatever she
says.
A he's not, you know, makinghis needs known and eventually
that creates a lot of resentmentand disconnection and you know
(05:45):
they start to just tune outbecause they're like oh well,
you know, I never get my needsmet anyways.
So you know whatever.
But not only that, but you knowit kind of implies some negative
stuff.
Like you know, if my wife's nothappy, nobody's happy.
Or if I don't give her what shewants, she's just going to nag
(06:05):
and be mean, and you know all ofthese things.
So there's actually a lot ofnegative connotation to it.
But it sounds really cute whenyou're doing an interview and
you're like what's your secretto a happy life?
And the man's like oh, she'salways right, she gets what she
wants, she wears the pants, youknow, yeah, and it gives so much
power to.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
It's like you have power over someone's emotions
and don't allow them.
Like happiness is not the onlyemotion, like a full life has
every emotion, and so it impliesthat having a negative emotion
is bad, but, like we sometimeswant to have a negative emotion
and that's OK.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So true, so true and you know you hear a lot of that
as well Like it doesn't matterwhat I do, she's never happy.
You know, yes, are being kindof equally thought about or
(07:05):
considered in the relationship.
Then you actually really havethe basis for a good, happy,
communicative relationship andreally all of these myths the
through line of all of them iscreating very healthy
communication.
Otherwise, happy wife, happylife is really lazy, Like, oh
well, I don't have tocommunicate my desires because
(07:26):
we just always defer to hers,right?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yes, yeah, and we have opinions, and if you don't
voice your opinions, that'sresentment, right, like for sure
.
So much resentment from thatmessage.
All right, another one divorce.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let's talk about that , since I am first and yeah,
well, you know again, all ofthis advice that I think is
given, you know, just kind ofcliche and commonly the idea
behind it is nice.
But I hear a lot of marriageexperts especially, especially
(08:02):
like in my field, who are liketake divorce off the table, it's
not an option.
You know we just don't thinkabout divorce and then there's
no problem.
And the idea behind it is tocreate commitment, like, oh well
, we can't get divorced, sowe're committed, and so you know
we're going to work throughevery problem.
But the reality is A it's nottrue.
Divorce is always an option.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Like, either party at any time can decide that they
want to do something.
We don't live in the dark ages.
We live in a time that you canand women can.
It used to be women couldn'tget divorced, so that really was
a real thing.
That's probably when thathappened, right when we started
saying that.
But nowadays we really can getdivorced.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's always an option.
So let's just be honest witheach other, like at any point
either party can decide thatthey want to end the marriage.
But also not dealing withissues in the marriage or you
know places where you canimprove is like what's your
(09:01):
motivation to actually makeyourself more pleasing to your
partner if they're locked in andthey don't, you know.
So that's like kind of.
I'll give you an example ofthis couple that I have worked
with, and I actually only workwith the husband.
The wife refuses to come to anytype of therapy.
Why what's her motivation?
Because they operate under theidea that divorce is not an
(09:25):
option.
So he comes and he's verydisillusioned in the marriage.
He's very, you know,responsibility for anything.
She refuses to make any changesor make herself more pleasing
to me, and so he's verydisconnected.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
He's very disillusioned.
I feel so bad for him, becausedo we need our spouse to get to
heaven?
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I don't think so either, right, and so it's just
a very destructive mindset.
Instead of creating a marriagethat both parties choose to be
in, it's like no, we have to behere, and it actually creates
less commitment than otherwise,because, you know, I'm committed
to creating a marriage that weboth really enjoy and thrive in,
(10:20):
versus we're locked in so I'mjust going to sit on the couch
and eat bonbons and do nothing,because you have no other option
but to stay here with me.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, that's so miserable, and God doesn't want
us to be miserable.
So if we're going to bring Godinto it like, God to me is just
a miserable marriage.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Not to mention the type of abuse that, like you
know that you endured right Forso many years, thinking like
well, I have to stay in thismarriage.
Probably we were sealed in thetemple and you know we shouldn't
get a divorce, and so I justhave to figure out how to deal
with this, which is so unhealthyright, yeah, it totally is Okay
(11:00):
.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So what's another one ?
That's a popular one of yourmyths.
Let's talk about another one.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So I like this idea of don't sweat the small stuff.
That one really makes me laughbecause it's so cliche and we
hear all the time yes, don'tsweat the small stuff, learn how
to compromise, like that wholething, and really the small
stuff becomes the big stuff.
Like, how do you think the bigstuff gets big?
Well, it started at some pointas small stuff.
(11:28):
So just disregarding the smallstuff and like stuffing down
your emotions and not takingeach other on and talking about
the things that are botheringyou is definitely not a good
strategy for a lifelong you know, healthy relationship.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, I totally agree with that, because the little
things for sure become bigthings.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, and would you rather deal with them when
they're small or deal with themwhen they're all encompassing
and literally like taking overand taking down the marriage?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, I totally agree with that Because I always
think like sometimes.
I know intimacy is a big issuein marriages, but it's a very
small part of marriage.
But when it's not happening itbecomes the only thing people
can think about.
And I think let's deal withthat.
Let's like I don't know.
(12:19):
Why do you think people are soscared to deal with these things
?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I don't know, why do you think people are so scared
to deal with these things?
Well, intimacy in and of itself, especially if you're referring
to emotional, but physical andsexual intimacy is just a very
charged topic.
I mean, there's so much baggage, just like money as well.
Right, we have our stories, wehave the things that we learned
growing up, we have all of ourideas and beliefs surrounding it
(12:45):
, and so you know, everybody'sideas and preferences and
opinions about this topic arevery individualized, and there's
no way to work through itwithout really healthy,
intentional communication.
And so we have to learn notonly about intimacy and how to
(13:08):
improve it, but you also have tolearn good, healthy
communication skills to be ableto address it with each other.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So what are some good communication skills you can
help us out with?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah Well, one of my favorite ones is just making
requests, and I talk about thisin the book.
It's very, it's very simple.
But people are not taught thisand so, instead of stuffing down
your feelings or just notsweating it or, you know, trying
to be the bigger person, Ithink a lot of times, especially
(13:41):
in sort of our religiousbeliefs, we think, oh well, we
put our partner first and ussecond, and so I don't want to
make a big deal out of this, Idon't want to rock the boat, I
want to be the bigger person andjust kind of look past it.
And so we don't initially likewe don't bring it up until it
becomes something.
(14:01):
That's just like wrecking usfrom the inside out, right.
But making requests is actuallysuper, super, super healthy and
important, and it's three steps.
The first one is being willingto rock the boat, like being
willing to ask for the thing,and that often takes a little
(14:24):
bit of self-reflection, likewhat is it that's bothering me?
What would I like?
So most of us, when somethingisn't going our way, we tend to
just complain about it.
We complain to our mom or ourgirlfriends or our bros or you
know whoever is around, like, oh, you know I'm not getting the
sex that I want, or my spouseisn't helping around the house,
(14:45):
or I, you know, have to doeverything, or whatever it is.
We tend to just complain and wethink that we're being
proactive because we're talkingabout it, but in a very indirect
, wrong way, and the chances ofus getting more of what we want
by complaining about what we'renot getting is very low.
So the first thing we have todo is figure out what the
request is behind the complaint.
(15:06):
So, if you know, my complaintis my partner never helps around
the house.
Well, I have to think like man.
It would be really helpful ifmy spouse would help with the
dishes twice a week, Like that'sa good request.
Or I would love it if my spousewould initiate once a week,
like on their own.
That's a very specific andhelpful request.
(15:29):
So figure out what the requestis first and be willing to make
it.
So the first thing you're goingto do is I call this
contracting right.
So instead of just ambushingyour partner when they get home
from a busy day of work or youknow they're in the middle of a
project or they haven't gottenenough sleep, you're going to
have much better results ifyou're like hey, I have a
request, I've been thinkingabout it for a couple of days,
(15:51):
would now be a good time to chat.
And if they're like oh, youknow, let me get something to
eat and you know, sit down for aminute, like you're going to
have better results.
If your partner's like boughtin and they're like, oh, yes,
let's talk about it, right.
So now you have their fullattention and you're willing to
say the thing.
Second, you want to make it.
We like to say we like to makeit stupidly easy for them to be
(16:15):
able to fulfill the request.
Right?
So if you go to your partneryou're like I'd like you to help
more around the house.
What does that mean to you?
That's so vague, it's so hardto fulfill that Like.
I'm sure your partner's likesure, honey.
Yeah, what does that even meanRight?
So if you can be specific andtime bound and behavioral, then
(16:38):
it makes it so easy for yourpartner to know exactly what it
is that you want from them.
So can you help me, on Tuesdaysand Thursdays, clean the
kitchen while I do whatever itis right, so that way your
partner can go oh, tuesdays andThursdays, do the dishes check.
I can do that right.
Or they can say you know whatTuesdays and Thursdays don't
(16:59):
work for me.
Can we figure out somethingelse right, but make it stupidly
easy for them to know exactlywhat it is that you're looking
for from them.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I love that.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And then step three is show gratitude and
appreciation for whateverprogress is made.
So, let's say, the next weekyour partner does the dishes on
Tuesday and then on Thursdaythey forget.
Well, instead of justbombarding them with you're such
an idiot, why didn't you?
You know, blah, blah, blah,blah.
It's like, hey, thank you somuch for doing the dishes on
(17:31):
Tuesday.
That was so helpful.
I was able to do this and thisand this, and I really, really
appreciate it.
What can I do to make it easierfor you to do the dishes on
Tuesday and Thursday next week?
Right, so we can alwaysnegotiate for more, but let's
start with being really gratefulfor what we did get any
(17:53):
progress that was made.
And that is your secret formulafor getting so much more of
what you want in yourrelationship than just
complaining about what you'renot getting.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yes, I love that.
And what happens when theydon't want to do it?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, here's the thing Most partners are really
going to want to make you happy.
Of course, if they can do it,they're going to.
Now, obviously, there's allkinds of things that might come
up.
They might forget, they might,you know, not be able to, they
might have an appointment, they,you know there's all kinds of
(18:28):
things that come up.
So it's important to reallytalk about it and, like you know
, encourage your partner to bereally honest about it, like,
hey, if that's not something youcan do, like let me know, like
we'll figure it out.
If I have to pay a teenager tocome over on Tuesdays and
Thursdays to do the dishes forme, you know we can, we can
figure something out.
But like work with me on itRight now.
(18:49):
If they forget and they don'tdo it, here's what is like human
nature.
The tendency is to like blow itsuper out of proportion, like
they didn't do the dishes onThursday and they're so lazy
they never do anything I askthem to do and the marriage is
just boom.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
They must not love me .
Yes, they don't love me.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, they're so inconsiderate.
Yeah, so the important thing toremember about requests is to
keep micro disappointments micro.
If your partner didn't do thedishes on Thursday, it just
means that on one particular daythey didn't do one particular
thing that you asked them to do,and so you can ask again and
(19:31):
you can even use this as likesuch a magic phrase what can I
do to make it easier for you todo what I'm asking you to do?
So maybe that's send me a textlike remind me that Tuesdays and
Thursdays are my days.
You know, it could be as simpleas that.
Or it could be like hey, canyou take the kids out to play or
to a friend's house, orsomething like that, because
(19:53):
it's really hard to do thedishes when they're running
around underfoot, right?
So, talking about it,negotiating about keeping it
micro, like it was just this oneday they didn't do one
particular thing that you asked?
Not, they never do anythingaround here.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, I love that and to keep it, I like make it more
personal because I can.
I totally see that in my ownlife as well as many people,
that we take one little thingand then make it mean like this
whole story about us, right, webring the whole story about us
and them.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, and it's easy to do with our partner.
But think about our kids, ourcoworkers, our friends.
Like it's really easy touniversalize like one small
error or like you know misstepor whatever into like something
huge, and so it's reallyimportant to always be checking
our story.
Like wait a second, my kidalways forgets his homework.
(20:49):
Is that true?
They're very responsible.
It's just in this one occasionthey didn't turn in their
assignment on time, right?
So it's like always importantto check those things.
Like am I universalizing thisor is this just like one time
where they did this one thingso-and-so?
(21:14):
Always does this for her.
Your sister never forgets.
Like, yes, so easy to do.
It's kind of like just what ourbrains do.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yes, yeah, marriage is complicated, right, and so I
love, though, that.
How do you get people to startquestioning, like, if you have
this belief because peoplebelieve some of these myths are
true, right, they think they'refact how do you get people to
decide like, okay, do I want tobelieve that anymore, or do I
(21:44):
want to think that anymore?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
yourself like is this serving my marriage?
Because I think you know.
This is an idea put forth byEmily Nagoski and she talks
about how, as we're growing up,our parents and caregivers and
teachers and leaders they plantthings in our garden, and when
we're young, we don't reallyhave any control over what's
being planted in our garden.
But when we're older, whenwe're adults and we're married
in a loving relationship, itbecomes our responsibility to
tend to that garden.
But when we're older, whenwe're adults and we're married
(22:19):
in a loving relationship, itbecomes our responsibility to
tend to that garden.
And so we've got to go into thegarden and look at things.
If it's a weed and it's chokingout good, then we've got to
pull it out.
Sometimes we have to weed theentire thing and we have to
rototill it and start over andput our own seeds in there of
like what we want to grow in ourgarden.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, I love the gardening metaphor, analogy,
whatever, because I really thinklike we kind of sometimes have
to like tear our garden out.
We have to rebuild ourmarriages because, especially
for those of us that have beenmarried 20 plus years and we've
have lots of weeds in our garden, it's like almost better just
(23:00):
to kind of start over.
And I love Esther Perel Likeshe says like sometimes we're
married three or four times allto the same person.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I like that thought because it's true, Like
sometimes the version of usobviously in our 20s and then we
have babies and we change, andso I love that concept.
I think it's so helpful ifpeople can envision it Somehow.
We believe it's like we've donesomething wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right, I mean no, that really does happen, because
a lot of times in you know,especially when people you know,
sometimes in a marriage oneperson will have a faith
transition in after they've beenmarried for a couple of decades
, Right, and so it might benecessary to completely weed out
the garden and start completelyover, like rototill the whole
thing, like everything that youthought was.
You know what your marriage wasbased on, changes.
And so I mean it's not justthat.
I mean maybe your parents getsick and you're caring for, you
(24:06):
know, aging parents, or you havea child with a disability, or
there's all kinds of things thatcan happen, transitions in our
lives and in our marriage, whenwe have to really look at what's
growing in the garden and whatshould be there, what shouldn't
be there and, you know, does itneed to be completely replanted?
Because that happens all thetime.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I agree.
Do you think, do people come toyou when they're like in crisis
mode, or usually, or they'relike no, I just want to check up
and work on my marriage.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
No, sadly, not enough people do that.
I mean most of the time, peoplewho come to me are having a big
crisis, like one partner'smoved out or you know, one
partner's been betrayed, orthere is some huge life
transition, like a faithtransition or something.
So most of the time, coupleswho come to me are needing
(25:00):
immediate attention forsomething big that's happened.
But every once in a while rightnow, I'm seeing a sweet teenage
boy who, well, he's in his 20s.
He's not a teenager, but he'syoung, but he's taking
responsibility.
He's like I really want toprepare myself to meet the right
person and like, really, and Iappreciate that so much.
(25:20):
And once I have had a youngcouple who came to me and they
said we just want to establishwith you.
Everything's great now we'renewly married, we're very happy,
but we want to establish withyou so that when things do come
up, you already have a historywith us and I thought that is
brilliant.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
And it's great, don't you wish we could normalize
that Like normalize like couples, like we need to do check-ins
right with people.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Right.
Well, the reality is is thereason why you would see a coach
or a therapist or like, ifthere's been a lot of trauma or
you know past relationship hurtsand things like that, then
that's really important.
But most of us it's just greatto look at what kind of our past
(26:04):
tendencies and our conflictstyles and attachment styles
look like, because then we canrecognize them and we have a lot
of choice around it.
The reality is is once youcreate a relationship, even
before you're married, you'restarting a dynamic, and so when
you're in relationship withsomebody, it's a dynamic, and
(26:25):
when you're in the dynamic youcan't see it very well.
It's like trying to read thelabel from the inside of the
bottle.
So you go to a third party whohas a different perspective.
Now I can tell you what thewarnings are on the label.
Right, I can show you what itis.
You can't see about yourselfwhen you're mid-conflict.
(26:47):
So just learning those thingsso you're prepared and you have
more choice in the matter is sohelpful.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I agree, and a neutral party, because I think
sometimes we go to our parentsor our siblings or a friend.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
They're not neutral, they have opinions, right and so
they're not neutral andsometimes they don't have the
best interests of therelationship in mind, right,
because they're your friend oryour sibling right, and so
that's exactly what you'resaying neutral, right.
Like they're more privy to onepartner or the other.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, they already have established opinions and so
that's unhelpful.
I always say, like you know,especially in betrayal, like,
don't go talking to your familyabout it, because, especially if
you want to stay together,because they're going to have
all their own opinions and it'sgoing to be hard, it's going to
make your decisions harder.
So, anyways, well, monica,thanks so much for coming on
(27:46):
today.
You know life is chaos for youright now.
What's going on?
Just a few kids coming in andout with problems.
It's fine, that's okay, that'sall right.
I don't have any kids needingme today, so that's good.
So how do people get ahold ofyou?
I'm going to put all yourinformation in my show notes,
but if they work with you orfind out about your book, how
(28:07):
can they get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, well, you can find all of my information, my
podcast Secrets of Happily EverAfter, and how to work with me
on my website, which is my name,monicatanercom.
And then, if you want to get onthe wait list for my book that
comes out in August, you're justgoing to go to
wwwbadmarriageadvicecom.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Such a great title because lots of bad marriage
advice out there.
Well, thanks, monica, fortaking time out of your schedule
to come on my podcast.
And if you liked this podcast,please share it with your
friends and family and I willtalk to you next week.
If you want to learn how tolive happily even after, sign up
(28:48):
for my email at hello at lifecoach Jen, with one n dot com,
follow me on Instagram andFacebook.
At happily even after coach,let's work together to create
your happily even after.
Welcome to my podcast , happily Even After.
I'm life coach, jen.
I'm passionate about helpingpeople recover from betrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast Today.
Today I have a special guest onthat I'm really excited about,
and I actually had her on a fewweeks ago and I completely
forgot to push record.
I'm recording our podcast,which is so typical of something
(00:55):
that I would do, but anyways,we are back and I'm actually
recording it.
So you're going to hear howamazing she is.
But her name is Monica Tannerand we've never met in person.
We were just introduced by amutual acquaintance, actually
the person that edits and makesmy podcast sound amazing, and
(01:15):
it's funny because her podcastis called Happily Ever After,
and so we for sure should befriends, since we have a very
similar thought process whencreating.
So, anyways, her name is MonicaTanner and I'm going to let her
introduce herself and we'll gofrom there.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, hi.
Thank you so much for having me, jen, for the second time.
Yes, I am a relationship andintimacy coach and expert.
I work with couples to increaseintimacy and rid them of
resentment and roommate syndrome.
I have been doing this I havebeen podcasting for about seven
(01:56):
years and I've been coachingexclusively couples for about
three years.
So lots, lots of experience andlove working with couples.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, me too.
I have such a soft spot formarriages, like even though my
marriage ended in divorce, likeI'm very pro marriage, so I
think if people can figure itout, that's so much better than
I mean, divorce is sometimes theright answer, but I just think
if people could figure it out.
(02:27):
And we just don't know what wedon't know when we get married.
So I know you wrote a book andI'd love to hear about that.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, so the book is called Bad Marriage Advice,
debunking myths that will makeyou miserable and what to do
instead.
And so the impetus behind thebook was that my oldest son is
getting married and I rememberhim telling me that he was
getting married and I was soexcited for him and I sat down
to write, like all of you know,my thoughts and advice on.
(03:00):
You know what I've learned inmy own 23 years of marriage, as
well as working with couples,and that little love note turned
into a full-blown book.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So it's been really fun to write.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, it's been fun to write and I hope that it will
be helpful not only for him andhis new wife, but also for
married couples, young and old,who have been married a short
time and a long time.
Hopefully it brings a smile toyour face and hope into your
marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, and I think there are so many myths that we
are all told, like when we getmarried, and I think people
think kind of they're funny orthat maybe they believe they
really will work.
I don't know, but I thinkthere's a lot of myths out there
that for sure need debunking.
So what are some of yourfavorites that we can talk about
(03:53):
?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, there's so many favorites, but the one that if
you marry the right person,they'll never hurt you.
That divorce is not an option.
Never go to sleep angry.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Happy wife, happy life.
A good wife keeps her husbandfulfilled.
(04:14):
I mean we can start anywhereand talk about any of those.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, those are well.
Happy wife, happy life.
Like I feel like I heard that alot and I felt like my former
husband used to say that and itmade me so mad.
Oh, yeah, it was so irritatingbecause I'm like well, you're
clearly not making me happy,right?
Because he was cheating on meand lying to me.
So I'm like you make no sensewhen you say that.
(04:39):
So tell me what's your thoughtson happy wife, happy life?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, I think it's really cliche and I think it's
kind of cute.
You know, I think men say itand women are like, oh, how
sweet he wants to make me happy,right?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I did not think that.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But it's really, really hard to create a
relationship for two people whenonly one person's wishes or
desires are being fulfilled.
Not only that, but it puts alot of responsibility on the
person who, you know, issupposedly wearing the pants or
has all the responsibility orneeds to be happy all the time.
So I think it creates a lot ofproblems, not only for the
(05:22):
person who has the bulk of theresponsibility, but also for the
husband in this case, who waslike oh, you know, I always
defer to the wife.
You know, I always whatever shewants, I just do whatever she
says.
A he's not, you know, makinghis needs known and eventually
that creates a lot of resentmentand disconnection and you know
(05:45):
they start to just tune outbecause they're like oh well,
you know, I never get my needsmet anyways.
So you know whatever.
But not only that, but you knowit kind of implies some negative
stuff.
Like you know, if my wife's nothappy, nobody's happy.
Or if I don't give her what shewants, she's just going to nag
(06:05):
and be mean, and you know all ofthese things.
So there's actually a lot ofnegative connotation to it.
But it sounds really cute whenyou're doing an interview and
you're like what's your secretto a happy life?
And the man's like oh, she'salways right, she gets what she
wants, she wears the pants, youknow, yeah, and it gives so much
power to.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
It's like you have power over someone's emotions
and don't allow them.
Like happiness is not the onlyemotion, like a full life has
every emotion, and so it impliesthat having a negative emotion
is bad, but, like we sometimeswant to have a negative emotion
and that's OK.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So true, so true and you know you hear a lot of that
as well Like it doesn't matterwhat I do, she's never happy.
You know, yes, are being kindof equally thought about or
(07:05):
considered in the relationship.
Then you actually really havethe basis for a good, happy,
communicative relationship andreally all of these myths the
through line of all of them iscreating very healthy
communication.
Otherwise, happy wife, happylife is really lazy, Like, oh
well, I don't have tocommunicate my desires because
(07:26):
we just always defer to hers,right?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yes, yeah, and we have opinions, and if you don't
voice your opinions, that'sresentment, right, like for sure
.
So much resentment from thatmessage.
All right, another one divorce.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let's talk about that , since I am first and yeah,
well, you know again, all ofthis advice that I think is
given, you know, just kind ofcliche and commonly the idea
behind it is nice.
But I hear a lot of marriageexperts especially, especially
(08:02):
like in my field, who are liketake divorce off the table, it's
not an option.
You know we just don't thinkabout divorce and then there's
no problem.
And the idea behind it is tocreate commitment, like, oh well
, we can't get divorced, sowe're committed, and so you know
we're going to work throughevery problem.
But the reality is A it's nottrue.
Divorce is always an option.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Like, either party at any time can decide that they
want to do something.
We don't live in the dark ages.
We live in a time that you canand women can.
It used to be women couldn'tget divorced, so that really was
a real thing.
That's probably when thathappened, right when we started
saying that.
But nowadays we really can getdivorced.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's always an option.
So let's just be honest witheach other, like at any point
either party can decide thatthey want to end the marriage.
But also not dealing withissues in the marriage or you
know places where you canimprove is like what's your
(09:01):
motivation to actually makeyourself more pleasing to your
partner if they're locked in andthey don't, you know.
So that's like kind of.
I'll give you an example ofthis couple that I have worked
with, and I actually only workwith the husband.
The wife refuses to come to anytype of therapy.
Why what's her motivation?
Because they operate under theidea that divorce is not an
(09:25):
option.
So he comes and he's verydisillusioned in the marriage.
He's very, you know,responsibility for anything.
She refuses to make any changesor make herself more pleasing
to me, and so he's verydisconnected.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
He's very disillusioned.
I feel so bad for him, becausedo we need our spouse to get to
heaven?
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I don't think so either, right, and so it's just
a very destructive mindset.
Instead of creating a marriagethat both parties choose to be
in, it's like no, we have to behere, and it actually creates
less commitment than otherwise,because, you know, I'm committed
to creating a marriage that weboth really enjoy and thrive in,
(10:20):
versus we're locked in so I'mjust going to sit on the couch
and eat bonbons and do nothing,because you have no other option
but to stay here with me.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, that's so miserable, and God doesn't want
us to be miserable.
So if we're going to bring Godinto it like, God to me is just
a miserable marriage.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Not to mention the type of abuse that, like you
know that you endured right Forso many years, thinking like
well, I have to stay in thismarriage.
Probably we were sealed in thetemple and you know we shouldn't
get a divorce, and so I justhave to figure out how to deal
with this, which is so unhealthyright, yeah, it totally is Okay
(11:00):
.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So what's another one ?
That's a popular one of yourmyths.
Let's talk about another one.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So I like this idea of don't sweat the small stuff.
That one really makes me laughbecause it's so cliche and we
hear all the time yes, don'tsweat the small stuff, learn how
to compromise, like that wholething, and really the small
stuff becomes the big stuff.
Like, how do you think the bigstuff gets big?
Well, it started at some pointas small stuff.
(11:28):
So just disregarding the smallstuff and like stuffing down
your emotions and not takingeach other on and talking about
the things that are botheringyou is definitely not a good
strategy for a lifelong you know, healthy relationship.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, I totally agree with that, because the little
things for sure become bigthings.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, and would you rather deal with them when
they're small or deal with themwhen they're all encompassing
and literally like taking overand taking down the marriage?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, I totally agree with that Because I always
think like sometimes.
I know intimacy is a big issuein marriages, but it's a very
small part of marriage.
But when it's not happening itbecomes the only thing people
can think about.
And I think let's deal withthat.
Let's like I don't know.
(12:19):
Why do you think people are soscared to deal with these things
?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I don't know, why do you think people are so scared
to deal with these things?
Well, intimacy in and of itself, especially if you're referring
to emotional, but physical andsexual intimacy is just a very
charged topic.
I mean, there's so much baggage, just like money as well.
Right, we have our stories, wehave the things that we learned
growing up, we have all of ourideas and beliefs surrounding it
(12:45):
, and so you know, everybody'sideas and preferences and
opinions about this topic arevery individualized, and there's
no way to work through itwithout really healthy,
intentional communication.
And so we have to learn notonly about intimacy and how to
(13:08):
improve it, but you also have tolearn good, healthy
communication skills to be ableto address it with each other.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So what are some good communication skills you can
help us out with?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah Well, one of my favorite ones is just making
requests, and I talk about thisin the book.
It's very, it's very simple.
But people are not taught thisand so, instead of stuffing down
your feelings or just notsweating it or, you know, trying
to be the bigger person, Ithink a lot of times, especially
(13:41):
in sort of our religiousbeliefs, we think, oh well, we
put our partner first and ussecond, and so I don't want to
make a big deal out of this, Idon't want to rock the boat, I
want to be the bigger person andjust kind of look past it.
And so we don't initially likewe don't bring it up until it
becomes something.
(14:01):
That's just like wrecking usfrom the inside out, right.
But making requests is actuallysuper, super, super healthy and
important, and it's three steps.
The first one is being willingto rock the boat, like being
willing to ask for the thing,and that often takes a little
(14:24):
bit of self-reflection, likewhat is it that's bothering me?
What would I like?
So most of us, when somethingisn't going our way, we tend to
just complain about it.
We complain to our mom or ourgirlfriends or our bros or you
know whoever is around, like, oh, you know I'm not getting the
sex that I want, or my spouseisn't helping around the house,
(14:45):
or I, you know, have to doeverything, or whatever it is.
We tend to just complain and wethink that we're being
proactive because we're talkingabout it, but in a very indirect
, wrong way, and the chances ofus getting more of what we want
by complaining about what we'renot getting is very low.
So the first thing we have todo is figure out what the
request is behind the complaint.
(15:06):
So, if you know, my complaintis my partner never helps around
the house.
Well, I have to think like man.
It would be really helpful ifmy spouse would help with the
dishes twice a week, Like that'sa good request.
Or I would love it if my spousewould initiate once a week,
like on their own.
That's a very specific andhelpful request.
(15:29):
So figure out what the requestis first and be willing to make
it.
So the first thing you're goingto do is I call this
contracting right.
So instead of just ambushingyour partner when they get home
from a busy day of work or youknow they're in the middle of a
project or they haven't gottenenough sleep, you're going to
have much better results ifyou're like hey, I have a
request, I've been thinkingabout it for a couple of days,
(15:51):
would now be a good time to chat.
And if they're like oh, youknow, let me get something to
eat and you know, sit down for aminute, like you're going to
have better results.
If your partner's like boughtin and they're like, oh, yes,
let's talk about it, right.
So now you have their fullattention and you're willing to
say the thing.
Second, you want to make it.
We like to say we like to makeit stupidly easy for them to be
(16:15):
able to fulfill the request.
Right?
So if you go to your partneryou're like I'd like you to help
more around the house.
What does that mean to you?
That's so vague, it's so hardto fulfill that Like.
I'm sure your partner's likesure, honey.
Yeah, what does that even meanRight?
So if you can be specific andtime bound and behavioral, then
(16:38):
it makes it so easy for yourpartner to know exactly what it
is that you want from them.
So can you help me, on Tuesdaysand Thursdays, clean the
kitchen while I do whatever itis right, so that way your
partner can go oh, tuesdays andThursdays, do the dishes check.
I can do that right.
Or they can say you know whatTuesdays and Thursdays don't
(16:59):
work for me.
Can we figure out somethingelse right, but make it stupidly
easy for them to know exactlywhat it is that you're looking
for from them.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I love that.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And then step three is show gratitude and
appreciation for whateverprogress is made.
So, let's say, the next weekyour partner does the dishes on
Tuesday and then on Thursdaythey forget.
Well, instead of justbombarding them with you're such
an idiot, why didn't you?
You know, blah, blah, blah,blah.
It's like, hey, thank you somuch for doing the dishes on
(17:31):
Tuesday.
That was so helpful.
I was able to do this and thisand this, and I really, really
appreciate it.
What can I do to make it easierfor you to do the dishes on
Tuesday and Thursday next week?
Right, so we can alwaysnegotiate for more, but let's
start with being really gratefulfor what we did get any
(17:53):
progress that was made.
And that is your secret formulafor getting so much more of
what you want in yourrelationship than just
complaining about what you'renot getting.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yes, I love that.
And what happens when theydon't want to do it?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, here's the thing Most partners are really
going to want to make you happy.
Of course, if they can do it,they're going to.
Now, obviously, there's allkinds of things that might come
up.
They might forget, they might,you know, not be able to, they
might have an appointment, they,you know there's all kinds of
(18:28):
things that come up.
So it's important to reallytalk about it and, like you know
, encourage your partner to bereally honest about it, like,
hey, if that's not something youcan do, like let me know, like
we'll figure it out.
If I have to pay a teenager tocome over on Tuesdays and
Thursdays to do the dishes forme, you know we can, we can
figure something out.
But like work with me on itRight now.
(18:49):
If they forget and they don'tdo it, here's what is like human
nature.
The tendency is to like blow itsuper out of proportion, like
they didn't do the dishes onThursday and they're so lazy
they never do anything I askthem to do and the marriage is
just boom.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
They must not love me .
Yes, they don't love me.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, they're so inconsiderate.
Yeah, so the important thing toremember about requests is to
keep micro disappointments micro.
If your partner didn't do thedishes on Thursday, it just
means that on one particular daythey didn't do one particular
thing that you asked them to do,and so you can ask again and
(19:31):
you can even use this as likesuch a magic phrase what can I
do to make it easier for you todo what I'm asking you to do?
So maybe that's send me a textlike remind me that Tuesdays and
Thursdays are my days.
You know, it could be as simpleas that.
Or it could be like hey, canyou take the kids out to play or
to a friend's house, orsomething like that, because
(19:53):
it's really hard to do thedishes when they're running
around underfoot, right?
So, talking about it,negotiating about keeping it
micro, like it was just this oneday they didn't do one
particular thing that you asked?
Not, they never do anythingaround here.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, I love that and to keep it, I like make it more
personal because I can.
I totally see that in my ownlife as well as many people,
that we take one little thingand then make it mean like this
whole story about us, right, webring the whole story about us
and them.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, and it's easy to do with our partner.
But think about our kids, ourcoworkers, our friends.
Like it's really easy touniversalize like one small
error or like you know misstepor whatever into like something
huge, and so it's reallyimportant to always be checking
our story.
Like wait a second, my kidalways forgets his homework.
(20:49):
Is that true?
They're very responsible.
It's just in this one occasionthey didn't turn in their
assignment on time, right?
So it's like always importantto check those things.
Like am I universalizing thisor is this just like one time
where they did this one thingso-and-so?
(21:14):
Always does this for her.
Your sister never forgets.
Like, yes, so easy to do.
It's kind of like just what ourbrains do.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yes, yeah, marriage is complicated, right, and so I
love, though, that.
How do you get people to startquestioning, like, if you have
this belief because peoplebelieve some of these myths are
true, right, they think they'refact how do you get people to
decide like, okay, do I want tobelieve that anymore, or do I
(21:44):
want to think that anymore?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
yourself like is this serving my marriage?
Because I think you know.
This is an idea put forth byEmily Nagoski and she talks
about how, as we're growing up,our parents and caregivers and
teachers and leaders they plantthings in our garden, and when
we're young, we don't reallyhave any control over what's
being planted in our garden.
But when we're older, whenwe're adults and we're married
in a loving relationship, itbecomes our responsibility to
tend to that garden.
But when we're older, whenwe're adults and we're married
(22:19):
in a loving relationship, itbecomes our responsibility to
tend to that garden.
And so we've got to go into thegarden and look at things.
If it's a weed and it's chokingout good, then we've got to
pull it out.
Sometimes we have to weed theentire thing and we have to
rototill it and start over andput our own seeds in there of
like what we want to grow in ourgarden.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, I love the gardening metaphor, analogy,
whatever, because I really thinklike we kind of sometimes have
to like tear our garden out.
We have to rebuild ourmarriages because, especially
for those of us that have beenmarried 20 plus years and we've
have lots of weeds in our garden, it's like almost better just
(23:00):
to kind of start over.
And I love Esther Perel Likeshe says like sometimes we're
married three or four times allto the same person.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I like that thought because it's true, Like
sometimes the version of usobviously in our 20s and then we
have babies and we change, andso I love that concept.
I think it's so helpful ifpeople can envision it Somehow.
We believe it's like we've donesomething wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right, I mean no, that really does happen, because
a lot of times in you know,especially when people you know,
sometimes in a marriage oneperson will have a faith
transition in after they've beenmarried for a couple of decades
, Right, and so it might benecessary to completely weed out
the garden and start completelyover, like rototill the whole
thing, like everything that youthought was.
You know what your marriage wasbased on, changes.
And so I mean it's not justthat.
I mean maybe your parents getsick and you're caring for, you
(24:06):
know, aging parents, or you havea child with a disability, or
there's all kinds of things thatcan happen, transitions in our
lives and in our marriage, whenwe have to really look at what's
growing in the garden and whatshould be there, what shouldn't
be there and, you know, does itneed to be completely replanted?
Because that happens all thetime.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I agree.
Do you think, do people come toyou when they're like in crisis
mode, or usually, or they'relike no, I just want to check up
and work on my marriage.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
No, sadly, not enough people do that.
I mean most of the time, peoplewho come to me are having a big
crisis, like one partner'smoved out or you know, one
partner's been betrayed, orthere is some huge life
transition, like a faithtransition or something.
So most of the time, coupleswho come to me are needing
(25:00):
immediate attention forsomething big that's happened.
But every once in a while rightnow, I'm seeing a sweet teenage
boy who, well, he's in his 20s.
He's not a teenager, but he'syoung, but he's taking
responsibility.
He's like I really want toprepare myself to meet the right
person and like, really, and Iappreciate that so much.
(25:20):
And once I have had a youngcouple who came to me and they
said we just want to establishwith you.
Everything's great now we'renewly married, we're very happy,
but we want to establish withyou so that when things do come
up, you already have a historywith us and I thought that is
brilliant.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
And it's great, don't you wish we could normalize
that Like normalize like couples, like we need to do check-ins
right with people.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Right.
Well, the reality is is thereason why you would see a coach
or a therapist or like, ifthere's been a lot of trauma or
you know past relationship hurtsand things like that, then
that's really important.
But most of us it's just greatto look at what kind of our past
(26:04):
tendencies and our conflictstyles and attachment styles
look like, because then we canrecognize them and we have a lot
of choice around it.
The reality is is once youcreate a relationship, even
before you're married, you'restarting a dynamic, and so when
you're in relationship withsomebody, it's a dynamic, and
(26:25):
when you're in the dynamic youcan't see it very well.
It's like trying to read thelabel from the inside of the
bottle.
So you go to a third party whohas a different perspective.
Now I can tell you what thewarnings are on the label.
Right, I can show you what itis.
You can't see about yourselfwhen you're mid-conflict.
(26:47):
So just learning those thingsso you're prepared and you have
more choice in the matter is sohelpful.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I agree, and a neutral party, because I think
sometimes we go to our parentsor our siblings or a friend.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
They're not neutral, they have opinions, right and so
they're not neutral andsometimes they don't have the
best interests of therelationship in mind, right,
because they're your friend oryour sibling right, and so
that's exactly what you'resaying neutral, right.
Like they're more privy to onepartner or the other.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, they already have established opinions and so
that's unhelpful.
I always say, like you know,especially in betrayal, like,
don't go talking to your familyabout it, because, especially if
you want to stay together,because they're going to have
all their own opinions and it'sgoing to be hard, it's going to
make your decisions harder.
So, anyways, well, monica,thanks so much for coming on
(27:46):
today.
You know life is chaos for youright now.
What's going on?
Just a few kids coming in andout with problems.
It's fine, that's okay, that'sall right.
I don't have any kids needingme today, so that's good.
So how do people get ahold ofyou?
I'm going to put all yourinformation in my show notes,
but if they work with you orfind out about your book, how
(28:07):
can they get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, well, you can find all of my information, my
podcast Secrets of Happily EverAfter, and how to work with me
on my website, which is my name,monicatanercom.
And then, if you want to get onthe wait list for my book that
comes out in August, you're justgoing to go to
wwwbadmarriageadvicecom.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Such a great title because lots of bad marriage
advice out there.
Well, thanks, monica, fortaking time out of your schedule
to come on my podcast.
And if you liked this podcast,please share it with your
friends and family and I willtalk to you next week.
If you want to learn how tolive happily even after, sign up
(28:48):
for my email at hello at lifecoach Jen, with one n dot com,
follow me on Instagram andFacebook.
At happily even after coach,let's work together to create
your happily even after.
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