Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to my podcast
.
Happily, even After.
I'm life coach, jen, I'mpassionate about helping people
recover from betrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast.
So today I'm talking about shameand I for sure have talked
about shame before, but I thinkit's a topic we can talk about
all the time, because there is alot of shame and betrayal and
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divorce and just life in general.
And there is an acronym that Iheard recently on a podcast or
reading a book I'm not surewhich, but I just liked it so
much I'm like I'm going to do apodcast.
So they said shame was shouldhave already mastered everything
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, and I thought that was such agreat way to think about shame,
because people just think like,oh, I should know better by now.
Right, anytime we shitourselves is a warning sign like
, okay, could you reframe that?
Re-say that, right.
Like shitting ourselves isnever helpful.
Shame is such a destructiveemotion and betrayal and really
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all of life.
So the more shame resilient youcan become, the better it's
going to be.
Better in how you communicatewith other people, how you live
your life.
And you know you have shame ifyou keep blaming other people
for your behavior or misbehavior, right?
Well, I had an affair becausemy wife wasn't meeting my needs
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and then dot dot, dot, right.
So often affairs, the spousegets betrayed and sadly our
society still thinks that itmight be true.
Right, but I want you to knowit's a hundred percent not your
fault if your spouse has anaffair.
Right, I'm not saying yourmarriage was perfect, you are a
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perfect spouse, but it's justthe affair part.
It was about them, okay, shamekeeps us hiding.
So if you feel like you justwant to hide, you don't want to
talk to anyone, you don't wantto be around people, if you're
just hiding and it's differentthan being like an introvert if
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you just have a lot of shamepeople knowing anything about
you, right, that's shame talkingand it keeps us stuck in our
enoughness, right.
Like if you're like I'm justnot enough, I'm not good enough,
I'm not smart enough, like.
If you're like I'm just notenough, I'm not good enough, I'm
not smart enough, like, if youare saying that to yourself,
that is shame.
So just pay attention, right,and it's not coming.
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I'm not telling you this like,just go start judging yourself.
It's just awareness, right?
If we're not even aware thatwe're stuck in shame, we can't
change.
We have to know it right andjust know you're going to stop
living an amazing life when yougo into hiding.
Right, shame causes us to hideand I can totally see this in my
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own life.
Like I like hid in plain sight,I guess you could say, because
obviously I wasn't not going outof the house, but I did.
I carried a lot of shame and Ialso carried my spouse's shame.
It's like I don't want you tofeel bad about what you did, so
let me feel bad about what youdid and then about myself.
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Right, let me just carry yourshame and I'll carry my shame.
And that happens a lot inbetrayal, especially when you
are working on your marriage oryou think you're working on your
marriage, and so I just thinkit's something good to become
aware of.
I love the Gottman Institute.
They said shame attaches to theheart and taints their most
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significant relational longings,desires, needs, hopes and wants
with self-doubt, criticaljudgment and insecurity.
This shame can haunt betrayedpartners, dogging their steps
and making them questiondecisions about themselves and
their relationships.
And I would totally agree withthis.
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Like the amount of questioningmyself and questioning
everything in my life all thetime was constant, right, and
then it didn't help that myspouse would just verify all of
that and agree with it, like,yeah, you're definitely the
problem.
And so it was like I alreadywas thinking it in my head and
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then they were reinforcing whatI was already thinking, not like
actually that isn't even true.
Right, because we are all goodenough.
Right, and what does goodenough even mean right.
Like everyone has differentthings that they're good at and
so and so anyways, so I just Ireally can see my life.
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I had for sure a shame storyunderlying shame for so much of
my marriage because I believedthat it was my job to fix the
problem, me, fix me, so that myspouse would love me enough to
stop having affairs.
And I can clearly see that thatwas very wrong thinking, very
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shameful thinking, and it wasnot helpful.
And sadly, you know, itaffected my children, right, how
they perceived themselves andperceived me and anyways.
So it can be really damaging toyour life and so shame is very
destructive.
So if you feel like there's alot of shame, you can totally
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get out of the shame by takingownership and acceptance, and
I'm going to talk to you aboutthat in a second.
So a lot of times the partneryou know you, if you've been the
one that was betrayed you havea loss of self-worth and so you
don't feel, like I said before,like good enough.
It totally shatters.
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So that's why betrayal is sodamaging, because it shatters
someone else that you supposedlyloved and married to feel not
good enough, that they areinadequate and worthless and
that their relationship now ison this unsolid ground.
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Right, it's just verydevastating.
A lot of people have physicaland sexual shame because then
they feel unattractive.
This for sure was me.
Right, like I felt like here,you know, having babies, your
body changes and your spouse notthinking you're attractive
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anymore.
You don't look like the25-year-old they're having sex
with, right, of course not.
Your body has changed,no-transcript.
So the betrayed spouse you feelunattractive, undesirable.
This happens a lot withpornography, people watching
pornography their spouse.
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Of course those people are notreal, like, yes, maybe they're
real people, but they'reairbrushed and choreographed and
it's an act.
They're acting in pornographyand so it's very damaging to
someone that's a real person.
It's like you're married to meyet you're watching these other
women or men and getting arousedand so it really messes with
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your physical and your intimacy.
In a marriage.
You have mistrust andinsecurity, especially after
betrayal.
It's like how can I trust you?
Here?
You told me you know all thesethings and then I find out they
were all lies and you feelfoolish and you know people are
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confused.
It's like how did I not seethis?
Were there warning signs?
Maybe yes, maybe no, possiblyright, it could be you're
totally blindsided, but it couldhave been things like we're off
, but you never went to myspouse's having an affair.
You're like, oh, maybe they'rejust stressed, like we sometimes
.
We oftentimes, especially womenwe just make excuses for our
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spouse's poor behavior and think, oh, they're just having a bad
day, or they're stressed, orwork's really rough, or like the
kids were up right.
It's like we can do that forthem, but we don't do it for
ourselves.
Another thing that shame does.
It keeps us isolated and wewithdraw from the world and from
connection.
We don't even want to connectwith our spouse because we feel
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so.
We have no self-esteem and it'sreally hard to seek support and
rebuild trust.
Right, that feels scary to us.
But the one thing I love aboutthe internet Instagram and
TikTok and all the things isthat the things that I used to
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feel very shameful about.
One of them is cooking.
Right, like in my mind, everywoman loved to cook dinner for
her family and, like hadmultitude of recipes and dinner
homemade dinner every night.
Like I literally thought thiswhen I was raising my kids
because, first of all, I wasn'tabout to ask anyone else how
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they felt about dinner, becauseI had so much shame and so much
criticism from my own spouseabout this that I just thought I
was broken.
Like, what was wrong with mehere?
I wanted to be a mom my entirelife and I wanted to be a wife,
and then this one simple task inmy mind was so challenging for
me.
And now I know it's pretty muchchallenging for everyone,
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because on Instagram, the amountof people that you know are
easy recipes, you knowcomplaining or just talking
about how it's hard coming upwith what to eat and how their
husband is like calling themsaying, hey, babe, what's for
dinner?
And they're rolling their eyeslike don't ask me again, right?
And so I love that because itreleases the shame and I know
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now like I'm not alone.
That's why I am very vocalabout betrayal is because I
don't want anyone to feel alone,as I felt so many years ago and
really for years how I feltalone because of my spouse's
cheating on me in my mind,thinking I must have married the
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one guy that is unfaithful.
No, there, sadly, are many menand many women out there having
affairs and so it's not to likeyou know, band together and
trash talk.
It's like, okay, wait, you didthis to me.
Now I'm going to heal andbecome stronger and figure this
out and maybe we're going torebuild a marriage, or maybe I'm
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going to walk away and beamazing without you, right,
those things are totallypossible.
So a lot of times there is shamefrom the affair partner, the
person having the affair.
I think some people for surefeel guilt, right and remorse
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after they have an affair.
You can tell this by themcoming to you and telling you
right, usually someone thatfeels bad about what they did.
They come admit it instead ofgetting caught.
It's not always the case, but Ithink that's a really like a
strong sign that maybe they feelbad for what they did.
And the difference betweenguilt guilt is I have done
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something wrong, whereas shamesays I am wrong, I'm a bad
person, right.
So it's important, I think, toframe it that way.
Some people in relationshipsthey have a hard time feeling
their emotions.
That's why it's so important tolearn how to feel your emotions
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, process your emotions.
So are they going to get help?
Are they willing to go get helpfor this thing that they did,
the bomb that they blew up yourmarriage and get help so they
can process their emotions.
They're not just expecting youto, like, accept what they said
and accept their sorry.
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Another thing often that happenswhen shame is involved is
people get defensive and theytend to minimize what they did,
because that feels scary forpeople.
I think that, oh, I caused allthis pain.
Well, let me pretend it wasn'tthat painful, right, it wasn't
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that painful because I washaving this amazing experience.
I was on, you know, having thisaffair that felt awesome.
And now I'm telling you andyou're on the floor, devastated,
crying for weeks and months andyears, right, like, let's try
to minimize it, and so that'swhy people want to blame their
partner.
Well, if you would have been abetter wife or a better spouse,
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I wouldn't have had to have anaffair.
Right, that's where this comesin, and this can just make
things worse.
Right, if you're defensive orminimizing the affair, shame is.
It's really hard to connectemotionally when there's shame
involved.
Right, it creates a barrier toempathy and understanding,
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making it really hard toreconnect, and so ownership and
taking accountability forwhatever you did is the way out
of this.
Right, to have connection, youhave to have honesty and courage
, and for sure, honesty, I think, is the main one.
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How this impacts your marriageis it's, of course, an erosion
of trust.
Shame can prevent a couple fromrebuilding trust and intimacy
after betrayal.
I mean, trust is completelyshattered and it's going to take
a lot of effort on both sidesto rebuild the trust.
But if you don't get rid of theshame, it's going to be
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impossible, it's going to behard to communicate.
You're going to have to havethose uncomfortable
conversations like I talked tolast week.
Right, shame is like don't sayanything, let's not talk about
it, let's just sweep it underthe rug, pretend it's gone.
But that's not going to help.
That's just going to makethings worse.
If you find yourself in a cycleright, I call it the shame blame
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trap, and so many couples arestuck in this trap.
If it's like, okay, I feelshame, so I'm going to blame it
on you, then that person doesn'twant to be blamed and so then
they feel shame and it just goesin the circle, right?
So even if you don't agree ahundred percent with what your
partner thinks you did or thinksthe pain they caused, see if
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there's any portion of it youcan agree with, and agree with
that part right, and get out ofthe trap.
And how you get out of it isjust start owning what you did.
Okay, for sure, you're going toneed to get a therapist, a
coach, someone that is an expertin betrayal.
I have gone to many differenttherapists.
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The ones, in my opinion, thathave experienced betrayal are
the best because they canunderstand how you're feeling.
So I just think that is animportant aspect.
I personally believe, now, ifyou love your therapist and
they're helping, great.
Now, if you love your therapistand they're helping, great.
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But I just think having atherapist or a coach that has
this experience, it just couldtake it to the next level.
Having open, honestcommunication I talked about
that Having compassion, and ifyou're ready to forgiveness,
right, that can really help ridthe shame in your relationship.
And the most important thing, Ithink, for the person that had
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the affair is to figure out whatcaused them in the first place
and that has nothing to do withtheir partner.
So what inside of them, whatwere they needing, what were
they missing in their life thatcaused them to step outside
their marriage?
And figure that out.
If they can figure that out, Ithink it's like pull the root
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out and replant your marriage.
You have much better successand chance to have a stronger
marriage.
But when you keep that deadroot in there and the person
that had the affair refuses toown it or think it has anything
to do with them, think it's nota big deal whatever.
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It's going to be really hard tohave a strong marriage, if not
impossible.
So, anyways, that may feeldisappointing to hear that, but
that's my truth, that's what Ibelieve.
You can think differently thanme and that's okay.
So I just think shame, shame isone of those very insidious
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emotions.
It feels awful to feel shame,but it can just destroy your
life and destroy yourrelationships, destroy your
marriage, destroy yourrelationship with your kids.
It just can do a lot ofdestruction.
So, anyways, I hope that washelpful.
If you like this podcast, pleaselike and share with your family
and friends.
(18:19):
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I love to hear your thoughts.
If you have any ideas forfuture episodes, please send me
a text and I will talk to yousoon.
Have a great day.
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Coach, let's work together tocreate your happily even after.