June 2, 2025 • 22 mins
Have you ever found yourself stuck in the mindset that your spouse should be the same person you married years ago? Or perhaps you've only focused on your partner's good qualities while being painfully aware of your own flaws? In this deeply personal episode, I share breakthrough realizations about relationships that took me nearly 30 years to uncover.
We explore the life-changing perspective that we're all different people than when we first married—and that's natural. I reveal how my marriage was shaped by a dangerous pattern: I could only see my husband's positive traits while he focused on my shortcomings. This imbalanced dynamic created the perfect storm for dysfunction and heartbreak.
The journey from betrayal to healing requires us to see both the good and challenging aspects of our partners and ourselves with clear eyes. Only then can we make decisions based on reality rather than fantasy. I candidly share how recognizing both my value and my ex-husband's genuine flaws allowed me to finally break free from painful patterns.
For those navigating post-divorce relationships, especially with children involved, I offer practical guidance on setting boundaries, managing family events, and deciding what kind of "former spouse" you want to be. These aren't just abstract concepts—I share my personal struggles, from the initial inability to even say my ex's new wife's name to finding neutrality after years of healing work.
Ready to transform how you view your relationships and yourself after betrayal? This episode provides the roadmap many wish they'd had earlier. Sign up for my email at hello@lifecoachjen.com if you're ready to discover your own path to living "happily, even after."
Please follow me on instagram and facebook @happilyevenaftercoach and if you want to see what coaching is all about I offer a free 45 min. clarity call via zoom.
Email me: hello@lifecoachjen.com for any comments or questions.
Thanks for listening, please like and review as well as share with your family and friends.
My website is www.lifecoachjen.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to my podcast .
Happily, even After I'm lifecoach, jen, I'm passionate about
helping people recover frombetrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast.
I've just been thinking a lot ofthoughts lately and so I kind
of wanted to just speak them toyou and maybe you would find
(00:52):
them helpful in your healingfrom betrayal or whatever you're
dealing with in your life, inyour marriage, in just every day
, and some of these thoughts Ijust, for some reason, I've had
some aha moments.
If you listen to last week'spodcast where I was interviewed
(01:13):
by a friend of mine who's also afellow coach, jill Pack, I
literally had two moments inthat podcast that I was like I
have never thought of it thisway, and so I was just going to
address those thoughts, becauseever since I talked to her, I've
(01:33):
been thinking about them and Ijust have been blown away.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve this, that I'm now just
realizing these were likeobviously deep down in my
subconscious and I had neverconsidered them or realized
that's how I was thinking in mymarriage.
(01:54):
And then one of them is justsomething that I just want you
to consider.
So the first one, you aren'tthe same person your spouse
married and they aren't either.
So I think so often, especiallyin betrayal, reality is really
hard for us, right?
It's hard to grasp reality.
(02:15):
We don't want to.
We want to pretend, right?
We do a lot of pretending andbetrayal and we look at our
spouse like you know if you'vehad any of your kids or any
friends, their children getmarried you just look at them.
They look so innocent andlovely and so excited to like
(02:35):
start their new life togetherand they're just so happy.
And then you know, fast forward20, 25 years.
There's a lot of hard that hashappened and sometimes we can
only see our spouse like theywere the day on our wedding day.
(02:55):
Right, and we change and webecome different people I mean,
I hope we do from I was 25 whenI got married, but from 25 now
to 54, done a lot of growing andchanging, and so I think it's
helpful to think like, yeah, weare different people, and that's
(03:18):
okay, of course we are.
Of course your spouse isdifferent than who you thought
you married, and if you'redivorced, it can still be a
helpful thought because you'rewanting them to be different
still, and so I just want you tothink about that.
You aren't the same person yourspouse married and they aren't
(03:39):
either, and that's okay.
Of course they are, of coursewe are, and that's okay.
Of course they are, of coursewe are.
So I just want you to considerthat this is the big epiphany
that I had I only saw my formerspouse's good qualities and he
(04:01):
only saw my bad qualities.
Now, I'm not saying all thetime, but the general, I would
say, view of our marriage wasthis I could only look at his
good qualities and he only sawmy bad qualities, and he only
saw his good qualities and Ionly saw my bad qualities.
So you see what a problem thisis right.
And so I just want you toconsider, because the truth is,
(04:26):
we all have amazing things aboutus and we also all have some
really not so great things aboutus.
No one is perfect, and so thisdynamic really caused a lot of
problems in my marriage and forme right, and so I haven't been
(04:47):
able to realize this.
Now I'm, you know, a few yearsout of my divorce and my
marriage and I can see it soclearly and I'm so grateful
because now I can see his goodqualities.
He definitely, definitely weall have good qualities, right
but I can also see his badqualities, and those bad
(05:07):
qualities caused me to getdivorced Because those bad
qualities were dishonesty, notloyal, willing to lie to me,
cheat on me.
He was unfaithful in ourmarriage, right, like so.
Those bad qualities for sureoutweighed any of the good
(05:29):
qualities, but I was so focusedon seeing the good in him and
ignoring the bad that it causedme a lot of grief and sadness.
And then I would look at myselfand I could only see all the
negative that he saw in me.
And now I can look at myselfand see the good as well as the
(05:52):
bad, but I focus on the goodmore and, you know, try to work
on and fix the bad, but I don'tmake it like something's wrong
with me.
I am enough just as I am.
And so I just want you to lookat your own life and your
marriage, or whatever.
And what if it's true?
(06:13):
What if each of us has reallyamazing things about us and we
also have things that aren't sogreat?
But what if we looked atourselves and focused more on
the positive as well as ourspouse?
I think the dynamic wouldchange.
I think if he could have seenme through the eyes of wow, look
(06:37):
at how amazing my wife is, orwhat a great mom, all those
things, all the positive thingsabout me, I don't know what if
that could have been different?
Right, I think our marriage forsure would have been different
if he could have seen that.
But he chose not to and hefocused on the negative.
So I just think it's somethingto consider in your own life.
(07:01):
And what are you focused on?
Are you focused because it onlymatters what you're thinking
about you?
And I promise your life isgoing to be so much better if
you can focus on you and all thegreat things, because we all
have different things to offer.
And so, what are you able, whatcan you offer?
What?
(07:22):
What are you good at?
What are, what are great thingsabout you?
And then this leads me to thelast thing that I had an
epiphany about, because Imentioned that.
Oh, I mentioned like, okay,what kind of mom do I want to be
?
I really like that question.
What kind of person do I wantto be in the world?
Who am I?
Right, something that I need totalk to him about, or whatever.
(07:51):
I always think, okay, how wouldthe best version of me show up
right now, and especially duringlike a hard conversation or
something like that, or they'vedone something and I need to
address it.
So I always think, okay, whatkind of mom do I want to be?
What kind of friend do I wantto be?
What kind of coach do I want tobe?
Who is that version of me, thebest, highest version of me?
(08:13):
Now, I often fall short andthat's when you can make repair.
But I mentioned like, well, I'mnot a wife, but it's true, I'm
not a wife yet, but I couldstill consider what kind of wife
I want to be, or I'm not a wiferight now.
I, I was a wife and there'sbeen lots of things about me
(08:33):
being a wife in that marriagethat I didn't love, but also
that I did love, that I didn'tnotice or I wasn't paying
attention to, right, because,remember, I was looking at all
the negative things I was doing.
And then that leads me to whatkind of ex former spouse do I
(08:54):
want to be?
Okay, and I'll tell you why Idon't like to say ex in this
right.
But what kind of former spousedo I want to be now that I'm
divorced?
And I haven't ever thought aboutthis, because I have an unusual
like I don't think it's normal.
Why don't I'm not going to saynormal, it's not that it's not
(09:16):
normal, it's just unusual.
My kids I didn't have to docustody really with my kids
because they were all older.
So I have very littleinteraction with my former
husband, which has been good forme, but there are many of you,
which has been good for me, butthere are many of you and the
(09:36):
reality is most people getdivorced and they have kids and
so they do have to interact more, and so I've just been
considering I wrote somequestions down to maybe help you
think about right, and thething is sometimes, when we
think about this, it it's like,well, but they're not being that
way, so how can I show up?
(09:56):
So we can't control your formerspouse and if they are a jerk or
whatever they're doing, but youcan control how you're showing
up.
So I want you to go inwardinstead of outward and focus on
what they're doing or not doing,and focus on what you're doing
or not doing.
So I want you to go inwardinstead of outward and focus on
what they're doing or not doing,and focus on what you're doing
or not doing.
So I want you to think aboutyour boundaries, like, okay,
what are your boundaries?
(10:17):
What are your non-negotiables?
Right?
How do you want to communicatewith your spouse?
You can decide that Now theymight not listen or agree, but
you can say no, I'm only textingyou or I'm only talking to you
through email, especially at thebeginning when it might be
really hard to have a phoneconversation.
(10:40):
So just consider okay, what areyour boundaries, what are your
needs?
How are you going to get thosemet?
What kind of attitude do youwant to be Now?
And I get you need to heal.
That's why healing is soimportant.
That's why I'm encouraging youIf you haven't healed from
betrayal.
That's very important, becauseyou're not going to be able to
(11:00):
access the CEO part of yourbrain to even consider what kind
of ex or former spouse you wantto be, because you're going to
be just covered with shame andanger and bitterness, right,
you're going to have all thosereally negative emotions.
So ask yourself, and you candecide who you want to be at the
(11:22):
beginning of your divorce, andthen every year you can re aside
, or every five years.
And why I say that is becauseI've been thinking okay, maybe I
could dip my toe back intohaving just a little bit more of
a relationship with my formerspouse Now, not much, and it's
(11:47):
more of my mind having arelationship with him than like
actually having a relationshipwith him.
But for me I had to go fromloving him to hating him, to
feeling neutral about him.
And so now that I'm in aneutral space about him, I'm
like, okay, well, what if?
Because we do have four kidstogether and they need help,
(12:10):
they're struggling, or we havethings going on, our daughter's
getting ready to move to adifferent state, and so there's
always just things happening,anyway.
So you know your attitudetowards them, right?
And it doesn't mean that youjust, even when you're just by
yourself, like what kind ofattitude?
(12:30):
What are your thoughts abouthim?
Because that your thoughts,it's not your former spouse that
affects you, it's your thoughtsabout them and that is going to
determine.
You know how you think and youfeel and your actions, and so
it's important your thoughtsmatter, because you can go down
a really dark rabbit holequickly when you have those
(12:50):
negative thoughts about them.
So what kind of involvement,right?
When I first got divorced and Italked about this on, I think,
one of our episodes, but I'mthinking he's coming over for
family dinner we for sure couldprobably like meet on Christmas
morning.
Like that for sure did nothappen.
(13:13):
Like the second he moved out, Irealized like, oh my gosh, I
don't think I can have him stepinto this house ever again.
Like I, my body was justreeling, like I didn't feel safe
.
That felt very unsafe, and soyou could maybe try an idea and
then decide, oh, oh, that didn'twork.
Or like, oh, we could probablysit together at the baseball
(13:35):
game.
And then you do that and yournervous system is going crazy
and you're like, okay, no, Ican't do that.
I need to sit on the oppositeend.
And even if he's like that's sorude, why aren't you sitting by
me?
You don't owe them anyexplanation.
Like you can just choose.
You know what, For me, it feelsbetter to just sit over here.
(13:58):
Anyways, what do you call themand yourself?
So I think this is importantyour name, okay, I prefer former
spouse or former husband.
I will call myself former wifeand sometimes I say I was the
first wife, right, like I don'tknow, but that to me just feels
(14:26):
better than I don't like theword ex.
But decide what do you want tosay when someone asks you?
I think for me that helps withmy thoughts.
And then also, when talking toyour kids, what do you call
their dad or their mom?
For me I will say dad, or I sayhis first name, and so I think
(14:51):
that's important, right, like,decide what are you going to
call them, because you alsodon't want to call them, maybe
what you're thinking, right,which is a derogatory word, but
that's unhelpful, I think, withyour kids.
And so whenever I talk to mykids about their dad, I will
just say your dad or his name,and I just think that's helpful
(15:15):
because it just feels veryneutral and that's what they say
to me, right, and so I think itjust helps in the conversation
and you're not bringing anyugliness to that.
So just decide with events withyour kids, like, okay, you don't
have to sit next to them, youcan sit anywhere you want.
(15:36):
Don't allow other people tocontrol you right, especially
like the family, thegrandparents or whatever.
Like you need to be the onewatching out for you.
So I just think that's reallyimportant Give yourself
permission.
If you're going to go see yourchild graduate, you want to have
(15:56):
a good time.
You don't want to sit there andhave like triggers and trauma
and feel uncomfortable at yourchild's wedding or graduation or
school play.
So do what's best for you.
Get really familiar withfeeling that and being able to
speak it.
And if someone can't understand, that's a them issue, not a you
(16:20):
issue.
You're not doing it wrong.
You're doing it so you can havea good experience there too.
And just remember, especiallyas your kids get older, your
kids can be the communicator.
It's not your job.
Like for me, I tend to.
I was the one the calendar ofthe family.
Like I made sure everyone gotwherever they needed to go.
(16:43):
I made sure their dad knew youknow what time everything
started, right, but that's notyour job anymore.
When you're divorced and thatcan be really challenging, but
it's their job now to figure out.
Okay, what is the school play?
What time does it start?
Where is it out.
It's not your job to tell them.
That is on them.
(17:04):
Now you could.
If you're like I've decided I'mthe former spouse that still
lets their dad know or their momknow about these events, great,
that's great.
But I just don't want you tothink you have to still do that.
You get to decide.
You get to decide if your kidsneed something.
Do you have your kids ask theirdad or are you the one right?
(17:29):
So just consider all thesethings and sometimes you don't
know what you're going to dountil the thing happens.
And then you're like, ooh, I'mgoing to do that different next
time.
Or like, oh, wow, I really likehow I did that Another thing
that I've had to really work on.
So my former spouse has gottenremarried and it used to be
(17:50):
really hard for me to say hername, like for whatever reason.
It made me very like.
It just made me mad anduncomfortable and I had to
practice.
My coach said Jennifer, I wantyou to start saying her name,
because I wouldn't say it and Idon't know if that was probably
(18:12):
because that would make it morereal like she was a person,
right, that would make it morehuman.
And so I just practiced doingthat and it's funny because
sometimes I say her name and mykids will be like who?
Because they're like sosurprised that I'm actually
(18:35):
talking.
You know saying her name, whichI'm not going to say her name
now, but you know saying hername, which I'm not going to say
her name now.
But anyways, I just think forme that would that's been very
helpful to step into my reality,because the reality is my
former spouse is remarried.
He has a new wife, right, andso that's my reality.
Do I love that reality?
(18:57):
No, I don't, but that is thetruth, and so calling her by her
name helps me my brain say no,that's the reality of the
situation.
Anyways, I just want you toreally brainstorm what kind of
former spouse you want to be.
What does that look like foryou, especially if it's been
(19:20):
hard and especially if it endswith betrayal, like marriages
end.
I mean there could be lots ofreasons that my marriage ended.
We could say, of course therewas lots, but the overarching
one was my husband wasunfaithful to me and I could no
longer live with that type ofhusband, right, like I do not
(19:46):
want to be in a marriage that myhusband has to lie to me and
have affairs right, and sothat's the overarching thing.
So you get to decide afteryou've healed right?
You can decide anytime whatkind of former spouse do you
want to be and that can lookdifferent for everyone.
There's not a right way or awrong way and then decide like,
(20:08):
okay, how are you going to bestbe able to heal and have this
happen?
Right, it may be you never cansit by each other and that's
okay or no.
You can start sitting next toeach other and watching your
child play sports.
I don't know.
You've got to be the one todecide that.
I hope this was helpful.
If you are struggling with this, if you're struggling
(20:31):
navigating divorce afterbetrayal, I would love to help
you.
I'd love to be your coach.
This, this is something that Icouldn't even see.
This thought Remember thethought that he could only see
my bad qualities and I couldonly see my bad qualities.
He could only see his goodqualities, I could only see his
(20:51):
good qualities.
That's taken me three years touncover that thought in my brain
.
Well, really, 20, 29 years,because I was married to him for
26 years and then I've beendivorced for three years.
So that belief.
I thought that was true, andnow I'm like, oh my gosh, that
was not true, that was just athought, and I'm not thinking
(21:12):
that anymore.
So have a beautiful day and Iwill talk to you next week.
If you want to learn how tolive happily, even after sign up
for my email at hello, I willtalk to you next week.
Welcome to my podcast .
Happily, even After I'm lifecoach, jen, I'm passionate about
helping people recover frombetrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast.
I've just been thinking a lot ofthoughts lately and so I kind
of wanted to just speak them toyou and maybe you would find
(00:52):
them helpful in your healingfrom betrayal or whatever you're
dealing with in your life, inyour marriage, in just every day
, and some of these thoughts Ijust, for some reason, I've had
some aha moments.
If you listen to last week'spodcast where I was interviewed
(01:13):
by a friend of mine who's also afellow coach, jill Pack, I
literally had two moments inthat podcast that I was like I
have never thought of it thisway, and so I was just going to
address those thoughts, becauseever since I talked to her, I've
(01:33):
been thinking about them and Ijust have been blown away.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve this, that I'm now just
realizing these were likeobviously deep down in my
subconscious and I had neverconsidered them or realized
that's how I was thinking in mymarriage.
(01:54):
And then one of them is justsomething that I just want you
to consider.
So the first one, you aren'tthe same person your spouse
married and they aren't either.
So I think so often, especiallyin betrayal, reality is really
hard for us, right?
It's hard to grasp reality.
(02:15):
We don't want to.
We want to pretend, right?
We do a lot of pretending andbetrayal and we look at our
spouse like you know if you'vehad any of your kids or any
friends, their children getmarried you just look at them.
They look so innocent andlovely and so excited to like
(02:35):
start their new life togetherand they're just so happy.
And then you know, fast forward20, 25 years.
There's a lot of hard that hashappened and sometimes we can
only see our spouse like theywere the day on our wedding day.
(02:55):
Right, and we change and webecome different people I mean,
I hope we do from I was 25 whenI got married, but from 25 now
to 54, done a lot of growing andchanging, and so I think it's
helpful to think like, yeah, weare different people, and that's
(03:18):
okay, of course we are.
Of course your spouse isdifferent than who you thought
you married, and if you'redivorced, it can still be a
helpful thought because you'rewanting them to be different
still, and so I just want you tothink about that.
You aren't the same person yourspouse married and they aren't
(03:39):
either, and that's okay.
Of course they are, of coursewe are, and that's okay.
Of course they are, of coursewe are.
So I just want you to considerthat this is the big epiphany
that I had I only saw my formerspouse's good qualities and he
(04:01):
only saw my bad qualities.
Now, I'm not saying all thetime, but the general, I would
say, view of our marriage wasthis I could only look at his
good qualities and he only sawmy bad qualities, and he only
saw his good qualities and Ionly saw my bad qualities.
So you see what a problem thisis right.
And so I just want you toconsider, because the truth is,
(04:26):
we all have amazing things aboutus and we also all have some
really not so great things aboutus.
No one is perfect, and so thisdynamic really caused a lot of
problems in my marriage and forme right, and so I haven't been
(04:47):
able to realize this.
Now I'm, you know, a few yearsout of my divorce and my
marriage and I can see it soclearly and I'm so grateful
because now I can see his goodqualities.
He definitely, definitely weall have good qualities, right
but I can also see his badqualities, and those bad
(05:07):
qualities caused me to getdivorced Because those bad
qualities were dishonesty, notloyal, willing to lie to me,
cheat on me.
He was unfaithful in ourmarriage, right, like so.
Those bad qualities for sureoutweighed any of the good
(05:29):
qualities, but I was so focusedon seeing the good in him and
ignoring the bad that it causedme a lot of grief and sadness.
And then I would look at myselfand I could only see all the
negative that he saw in me.
And now I can look at myselfand see the good as well as the
(05:52):
bad, but I focus on the goodmore and, you know, try to work
on and fix the bad, but I don'tmake it like something's wrong
with me.
I am enough just as I am.
And so I just want you to lookat your own life and your
marriage, or whatever.
And what if it's true?
(06:13):
What if each of us has reallyamazing things about us and we
also have things that aren't sogreat?
But what if we looked atourselves and focused more on
the positive as well as ourspouse?
I think the dynamic wouldchange.
I think if he could have seenme through the eyes of wow, look
(06:37):
at how amazing my wife is, orwhat a great mom, all those
things, all the positive thingsabout me, I don't know what if
that could have been different?
Right, I think our marriage forsure would have been different
if he could have seen that.
But he chose not to and hefocused on the negative.
So I just think it's somethingto consider in your own life.
(07:01):
And what are you focused on?
Are you focused because it onlymatters what you're thinking
about you?
And I promise your life isgoing to be so much better if
you can focus on you and all thegreat things, because we all
have different things to offer.
And so, what are you able, whatcan you offer?
What?
(07:22):
What are you good at?
What are, what are great thingsabout you?
And then this leads me to thelast thing that I had an
epiphany about, because Imentioned that.
Oh, I mentioned like, okay,what kind of mom do I want to be
?
I really like that question.
What kind of person do I wantto be in the world?
Who am I?
Right, something that I need totalk to him about, or whatever.
(07:51):
I always think, okay, how wouldthe best version of me show up
right now, and especially duringlike a hard conversation or
something like that, or they'vedone something and I need to
address it.
So I always think, okay, whatkind of mom do I want to be?
What kind of friend do I wantto be?
What kind of coach do I want tobe?
Who is that version of me, thebest, highest version of me?
(08:13):
Now, I often fall short andthat's when you can make repair.
But I mentioned like, well, I'mnot a wife, but it's true, I'm
not a wife yet, but I couldstill consider what kind of wife
I want to be, or I'm not a wiferight now.
I, I was a wife and there'sbeen lots of things about me
(08:33):
being a wife in that marriagethat I didn't love, but also
that I did love, that I didn'tnotice or I wasn't paying
attention to, right, because,remember, I was looking at all
the negative things I was doing.
And then that leads me to whatkind of ex former spouse do I
(08:54):
want to be?
Okay, and I'll tell you why Idon't like to say ex in this
right.
But what kind of former spousedo I want to be now that I'm
divorced?
And I haven't ever thought aboutthis, because I have an unusual
like I don't think it's normal.
Why don't I'm not going to saynormal, it's not that it's not
(09:16):
normal, it's just unusual.
My kids I didn't have to docustody really with my kids
because they were all older.
So I have very littleinteraction with my former
husband, which has been good forme, but there are many of you,
which has been good for me, butthere are many of you and the
(09:36):
reality is most people getdivorced and they have kids and
so they do have to interact more, and so I've just been
considering I wrote somequestions down to maybe help you
think about right, and thething is sometimes, when we
think about this, it it's like,well, but they're not being that
way, so how can I show up?
(09:56):
So we can't control your formerspouse and if they are a jerk or
whatever they're doing, but youcan control how you're showing
up.
So I want you to go inwardinstead of outward and focus on
what they're doing or not doing,and focus on what you're doing
or not doing.
So I want you to go inwardinstead of outward and focus on
what they're doing or not doing,and focus on what you're doing
or not doing.
So I want you to think aboutyour boundaries, like, okay,
what are your boundaries?
(10:17):
What are your non-negotiables?
Right?
How do you want to communicatewith your spouse?
You can decide that Now theymight not listen or agree, but
you can say no, I'm only textingyou or I'm only talking to you
through email, especially at thebeginning when it might be
really hard to have a phoneconversation.
(10:40):
So just consider okay, what areyour boundaries, what are your
needs?
How are you going to get thosemet?
What kind of attitude do youwant to be Now?
And I get you need to heal.
That's why healing is soimportant.
That's why I'm encouraging youIf you haven't healed from
betrayal.
That's very important, becauseyou're not going to be able to
(11:00):
access the CEO part of yourbrain to even consider what kind
of ex or former spouse you wantto be, because you're going to
be just covered with shame andanger and bitterness, right,
you're going to have all thosereally negative emotions.
So ask yourself, and you candecide who you want to be at the
(11:22):
beginning of your divorce, andthen every year you can re aside
, or every five years.
And why I say that is becauseI've been thinking okay, maybe I
could dip my toe back intohaving just a little bit more of
a relationship with my formerspouse Now, not much, and it's
(11:47):
more of my mind having arelationship with him than like
actually having a relationshipwith him.
But for me I had to go fromloving him to hating him, to
feeling neutral about him.
And so now that I'm in aneutral space about him, I'm
like, okay, well, what if?
Because we do have four kidstogether and they need help,
(12:10):
they're struggling, or we havethings going on, our daughter's
getting ready to move to adifferent state, and so there's
always just things happening,anyway.
So you know your attitudetowards them, right?
And it doesn't mean that youjust, even when you're just by
yourself, like what kind ofattitude?
(12:30):
What are your thoughts abouthim?
Because that your thoughts,it's not your former spouse that
affects you, it's your thoughtsabout them and that is going to
determine.
You know how you think and youfeel and your actions, and so
it's important your thoughtsmatter, because you can go down
a really dark rabbit holequickly when you have those
(12:50):
negative thoughts about them.
So what kind of involvement,right?
When I first got divorced and Italked about this on, I think,
one of our episodes, but I'mthinking he's coming over for
family dinner we for sure couldprobably like meet on Christmas
morning.
Like that for sure did nothappen.
(13:13):
Like the second he moved out, Irealized like, oh my gosh, I
don't think I can have him stepinto this house ever again.
Like I, my body was justreeling, like I didn't feel safe
.
That felt very unsafe, and soyou could maybe try an idea and
then decide, oh, oh, that didn'twork.
Or like, oh, we could probablysit together at the baseball
(13:35):
game.
And then you do that and yournervous system is going crazy
and you're like, okay, no, Ican't do that.
I need to sit on the oppositeend.
And even if he's like that's sorude, why aren't you sitting by
me?
You don't owe them anyexplanation.
Like you can just choose.
You know what, For me, it feelsbetter to just sit over here.
(13:58):
Anyways, what do you call themand yourself?
So I think this is importantyour name, okay, I prefer former
spouse or former husband.
I will call myself former wifeand sometimes I say I was the
first wife, right, like I don'tknow, but that to me just feels
(14:26):
better than I don't like theword ex.
But decide what do you want tosay when someone asks you?
I think for me that helps withmy thoughts.
And then also, when talking toyour kids, what do you call
their dad or their mom?
For me I will say dad, or I sayhis first name, and so I think
(14:51):
that's important, right, like,decide what are you going to
call them, because you alsodon't want to call them, maybe
what you're thinking, right,which is a derogatory word, but
that's unhelpful, I think, withyour kids.
And so whenever I talk to mykids about their dad, I will
just say your dad or his name,and I just think that's helpful
(15:15):
because it just feels veryneutral and that's what they say
to me, right, and so I think itjust helps in the conversation
and you're not bringing anyugliness to that.
So just decide with events withyour kids, like, okay, you don't
have to sit next to them, youcan sit anywhere you want.
(15:36):
Don't allow other people tocontrol you right, especially
like the family, thegrandparents or whatever.
Like you need to be the onewatching out for you.
So I just think that's reallyimportant Give yourself
permission.
If you're going to go see yourchild graduate, you want to have
(15:56):
a good time.
You don't want to sit there andhave like triggers and trauma
and feel uncomfortable at yourchild's wedding or graduation or
school play.
So do what's best for you.
Get really familiar withfeeling that and being able to
speak it.
And if someone can't understand, that's a them issue, not a you
(16:20):
issue.
You're not doing it wrong.
You're doing it so you can havea good experience there too.
And just remember, especiallyas your kids get older, your
kids can be the communicator.
It's not your job.
Like for me, I tend to.
I was the one the calendar ofthe family.
Like I made sure everyone gotwherever they needed to go.
(16:43):
I made sure their dad knew youknow what time everything
started, right, but that's notyour job anymore.
When you're divorced and thatcan be really challenging, but
it's their job now to figure out.
Okay, what is the school play?
What time does it start?
Where is it out.
It's not your job to tell them.
That is on them.
(17:04):
Now you could.
If you're like I've decided I'mthe former spouse that still
lets their dad know or their momknow about these events, great,
that's great.
But I just don't want you tothink you have to still do that.
You get to decide.
You get to decide if your kidsneed something.
Do you have your kids ask theirdad or are you the one right?
(17:29):
So just consider all thesethings and sometimes you don't
know what you're going to dountil the thing happens.
And then you're like, ooh, I'mgoing to do that different next
time.
Or like, oh, wow, I really likehow I did that Another thing
that I've had to really work on.
So my former spouse has gottenremarried and it used to be
(17:50):
really hard for me to say hername, like for whatever reason.
It made me very like.
It just made me mad anduncomfortable and I had to
practice.
My coach said Jennifer, I wantyou to start saying her name,
because I wouldn't say it and Idon't know if that was probably
(18:12):
because that would make it morereal like she was a person,
right, that would make it morehuman.
And so I just practiced doingthat and it's funny because
sometimes I say her name and mykids will be like who?
Because they're like sosurprised that I'm actually
(18:35):
talking.
You know saying her name, whichI'm not going to say her name
now, but you know saying hername, which I'm not going to say
her name now.
But anyways, I just think forme that would that's been very
helpful to step into my reality,because the reality is my
former spouse is remarried.
He has a new wife, right, andso that's my reality.
Do I love that reality?
(18:57):
No, I don't, but that is thetruth, and so calling her by her
name helps me my brain say no,that's the reality of the
situation.
Anyways, I just want you toreally brainstorm what kind of
former spouse you want to be.
What does that look like foryou, especially if it's been
(19:20):
hard and especially if it endswith betrayal, like marriages
end.
I mean there could be lots ofreasons that my marriage ended.
We could say, of course therewas lots, but the overarching
one was my husband wasunfaithful to me and I could no
longer live with that type ofhusband, right, like I do not
(19:46):
want to be in a marriage that myhusband has to lie to me and
have affairs right, and sothat's the overarching thing.
So you get to decide afteryou've healed right?
You can decide anytime whatkind of former spouse do you
want to be and that can lookdifferent for everyone.
There's not a right way or awrong way and then decide like,
(20:08):
okay, how are you going to bestbe able to heal and have this
happen?
Right, it may be you never cansit by each other and that's
okay or no.
You can start sitting next toeach other and watching your
child play sports.
I don't know.
You've got to be the one todecide that.
I hope this was helpful.
If you are struggling with this, if you're struggling
(20:31):
navigating divorce afterbetrayal, I would love to help
you.
I'd love to be your coach.
This, this is something that Icouldn't even see.
This thought Remember thethought that he could only see
my bad qualities and I couldonly see my bad qualities.
He could only see his goodqualities, I could only see his
(20:51):
good qualities.
That's taken me three years touncover that thought in my brain
.
Well, really, 20, 29 years,because I was married to him for
26 years and then I've beendivorced for three years.
So that belief.
I thought that was true, andnow I'm like, oh my gosh, that
was not true, that was just athought, and I'm not thinking
(21:12):
that anymore.
So have a beautiful day and Iwill talk to you next week.
If you want to learn how tolive happily, even after sign up
for my email at hello, I willtalk to you next week.
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