April 21, 2025 • 28 mins
We've all had those moments when we behave in ways that seem completely out of character—slapping someone in public, wanting to jump out of a moving car, or putting a hole in the wall. When betrayal trauma hijacks your nervous system, your body reacts before your rational mind can process what's happening.
Drawing from Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Bruce Perry's groundbreaking book "What Happened to You?", I explore how understanding trauma responses can transform shame into self-compassion. The simple shift from asking "what's wrong with me?" to "what happened to me?" opens the door to profound healing.
Your betrayal response isn't evidence of weakness or instability—it's your nervous system doing exactly what it evolved to do: protect you from perceived threats. The fight, flight, or freeze reactions aren't conscious choices, which explains why you can't simply think your way out of betrayal trauma.
Most post-betrayal behaviors make perfect sense when viewed through this lens. Drinking too much, emotional eating, excessive shopping or scrolling—these aren't character flaws but attempts to regulate an overwhelmed nervous system. And as Dr. Perry explains, "The most powerful form of reward is relational." Connection with supportive people provides what no substance or behavior can.
I share my personal journey of understanding my nervous system, from believing I had chronic anxiety (when actually I was living with chronic betrayal) to discovering simple regulation techniques that bring me back to balance. Finding what regulates your unique system—whether it's a heated blanket, walking with friends, or doing puzzles—builds your resilience zone and reduces triggers.
The path forward includes practicing "rupture and repair" in relationships, creating safe spaces where honest feelings can be expressed without judgment. This vulnerability leads to deeper connection than trying to maintain a façade of perfection.
Ready to transform your betrayal story through understanding the science of trauma? Discover how your nervous system holds the keys to moving from merely surviving to truly thriving after betrayal.
Please follow me on instagram and facebook @happilyevenaftercoach and if you want to see what coaching is all about I offer a free 45 min. clarity call via zoom.
Email me: hello@lifecoachjen.com for any comments or questions.
Thanks for listening, please like and review as well as share with your family and friends.
My website is www.lifecoachjen.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to my podcast .
Happily, even After.
I'm life coach, jen, I'mpassionate about helping people
recover from betrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast.
I'm excited to be with youtoday.
So I feel like I, amazingly,have read a lot of books lately.
And the Commodity of Connection.
(00:53):
I actually did read that book.
That was last week, but thisweek I listened to it.
So sometimes I say I read it,but I really listened to it.
So just be kind to me, but Ihave been.
It's been a goal of mine tolisten or read more books and
I've been doing it.
I'm so proud of myself.
(01:13):
So this book that I read it wascalled what Happened to you
Conversations on Trauma,resilience and Healing, a book
with Oprah Winfrey and Dr BruceD Perry.
I would highly recommend it ifthis is a topic that is of
interest to you.
It really is to me.
I find trauma very fascinating.
(01:36):
I know that might sound weirdto someone, but it helps make
sense of things that haven'tmade sense to me, and so I love
the phrase what happened to you,because many of us say what's
wrong with you?
Right, when someone acts up, achild acts up or someone does
(02:00):
something that we consider evenmy former spouse, who had an
affair I could be like what'swrong with you, why did you do
that?
Instead of asking the questionwhat happened to you?
What happened to them?
It just is a lot morecompassionate, right, and it
really is true because probablysomething did in their younger
(02:22):
years to get them to where theyare now.
I was just thinking about timesrecently that I've been
triggered or something, and it'sa really bizarre thing, but I'm
going to share it.
So Meghan Markle if you guyshave seen her Netflix show on
this lifestyle show and people,the reason I started watching it
(02:45):
because I saw this negative,like kind of making fun of her
and these negative things aboutit, and so I was like hey to my
daughter, like let's watch thisshow, and there's a lot of like
I can agree to some of it.
Some of it's like really you'recooking spaghetti in a white
linen pair of pants and no apron, right.
(03:07):
That feels dangerous and likeunrealistic right.
So there's some funny things,but I in that moment watching
that, I just got so triggeredbecause, in my opinion now I'm
not going to say, but that iswho my former spouse expected me
(03:29):
to be and those are my thoughts.
So I'm not going to say,because obviously, meghan Markle
wasn't around when we weremarried, but that's how I felt,
so much that that was the ideal,that that is the wife he wanted
was someone that was creatingharvest baskets for their
(03:55):
neighbors and bringing them tohim and, you know, making every
meal by scratch and makinghomemade candles, and some of
the things she does may beextreme, and I actually really
love entertaining.
I think I really throw a goodparty and I do those things well
.
However, it just was never.
(04:15):
I never felt that it was goodenough or I maybe needed too
much help or whatever, and so,and like, cooking dinner is a
big trigger for me and I'vereally been aware of it because
I'm like, oh, this is somethingI want to heal from and I want
to be able to make a meal andnot sit there in complete panic
(04:38):
that I've missed an ingredient,or I have missed an ingredient
and for the next 20 years myhusband's going to make fun of
me for it and tell everyone thatI know about it and feel
embarrassed.
Or that you know I'm going tobuy the wrong brand at the
grocery store.
That's not as healthy.
Or why did I buy non-organicmilk?
(05:01):
And so those are extremes.
I'm not saying that he wasnecessarily that way, but also,
yes, he was that way, verycritical of me, that he had an
idea of the perfect wife and Inever.
I was not that.
And of course I tried so hard Ialways tried.
(05:25):
I really thought, okay, if Ican fix this, if I can master
this, if I can do this right,then he will stop having an
affair.
So I correlated the two.
They were not connected and itwasn't even true, but that's why
I really resonated, I think,like what happened to me.
So it can give me somecompassion.
(05:45):
Of course I'm that way, ofcourse I felt that way, but I
don't have to be that wayforever.
I can change.
And so I've taken a break, likeI'm so grateful for my daughter
she does all the cooking andgrocery shopping because I just
needed to take a break from thatmental game and just sit with
(06:09):
myself about that.
So that's one example that Ihave experienced that I'm really
trying to work on.
So I'm going to just share somequotes of Dr Perry and then talk
about them, okay.
So Dr Perry explains thatseemingly senseless or confusing
behavior makes more sense onceyou look at what is behind the
(06:31):
behavior.
Why did they do that?
What would make them act thatway?
Something happened thatinfluenced how their brain works
.
When was the last time youstruggled to understand behavior
from someone in your life?
And I think this question is sogood because so often I know
(06:54):
from my experience it's like Iknew something was going on,
like I felt it, like something.
I called them my spidey senses,like something.
I felt something and I was justalways trying to grasp and
trying to figure it out.
What, what was it?
And bizarrely, my brain didn'tgo oh, he's having an affair now
.
Sometimes it did, but usuallyI'm like I would be like, okay,
(07:17):
what have I done?
I would go to me.
What have I done wrong?
My husband's acting this waybecause probably something I did
which is so interesting, right,that says something about me,
right?
And but then I would feel thesefeelings, try to make sense of
them and really struggle.
Yet it was really somethingthat they were doing, right?
(07:42):
So I just think it'sinteresting to ask yourself
these questions what were yourreactions to the behavior?
Right, when you found out?
How did you react?
That's good information, right?
Did you get really angry?
Did you run away?
Did you freeze up and not sayanything?
Did you pretend it wasn'thappening?
(08:03):
Right?
Were you in denial?
Like there isn't a right orwrong way, it's just.
Our reaction is usually areason.
You know something that'shappened to us.
It's how we have adapted in ourlife.
Did you get frustrated, annoyedor angry because the behavior
made life harder for you, or didyou consider asking yourself
(08:24):
what was behind the behavior?
Right, for me, I took all hisaffairs to mean something about
me, even though I knew, probably, things in his childhood were
problematic.
Right, I didn't know that couldbe a reason for someone to have
an affair.
Now I know it was never aboutme.
(08:44):
Patterns, abandonment, need forvalidation were the reasons
that he was doing this.
Right, and so look at whateveryou're experiencing now and
consider, ask yourself thosequestions.
But really, what happened toyou and then, what happened to
me, to take it so personally.
(09:05):
Right, like, what was it aboutme?
I think I'm still working onthat.
Maybe I'm very loyal andtrusting of someone and can't
possibly imagine.
It's really hard for my brainto imagine someone doing
something like have an affair,right?
Well, he said he loved me.
He said you know, we gotmarried and we married each
(09:30):
other forever, right, like.
It just was hard for my brain.
I couldn't.
I couldn't accept it.
Okay.
The next quote from Dr Perrysays all experience is processed
from the bottom up.
Meaning to get to the top smartpart of our brain, which I like
to call the CEO part of ourbrain, we have to go through the
(09:51):
lower, primitive part.
That's not the smart part, okay.
So our thoughts, they start inour primitive brain and move to
the CEO, our smart part of ourbrain, okay, our prefrontal
cortex.
This sequential processingmeans that the most primitive
(10:11):
reacting part of the brain isthe first part to interpret and
act on the information coming infrom our senses.
So what this means is, beforewe even have a thought or a
feeling about what has justhappened, we react.
Okay.
So I just want to remind youI've said this before you can't
(10:34):
think your way out of betrayal.
We react like we don't evenknow that we're doing it, like
our body just will react and ourtrauma response is usually
fight, flight or freeze, anddifferent situations cause us to
do different things.
For me, I've experienced whenI've wanted to fly, like leave,
(10:59):
like literally jump out of a carand and or fight Okay, I'm
going to fight for our marriageand for sure I went into freeze
as well.
The bottom line our brain isorganized to act and feel before
we think.
How does our knowledge of thisway of processing information
(11:21):
help us to better understand theresponses of those close to us
or even ourselves?
So learning this fact how ourbody works like right, it's
scientific right, this is howour body works helped me really
have compassion for myself,because I've done some things in
(11:44):
my life that I'm not very proudof.
Like I'm like wait, that's notwho I am.
I've slapped a woman at theairport one time and it was the
other woman I mortified right.
For years and years I felt somuch shame and embarrassment for
(12:05):
doing that.
Years I felt so much shame andembarrassment for doing that
Like I thought I'm not someonethat hits anyone and yet I did
this right and I held it overmyself and I felt so awful.
And it's very interestingbecause about 20 years since
that happened I have been ableto repair with that person and
(12:30):
she said to me I deserve thatmore than you know and I am so
sorry for what I did to you, andwe repaired For me.
I was so grateful because Ijust never got to say sorry to
her because in my mind she wasthe enemy, she was the other
(12:51):
woman, she was encroaching on mylife and my marriage.
Yet you know, her story isdifferent, right, but I just
think we sometimes do thingswe're not proud of.
That's one thing I wasn't proudof, but it makes sense.
Of course my body was reactingbefore my mind could even get
(13:13):
there and make sense of what wasgoing on.
How is it possible that Ishowed up at the airport to pick
my husband up from a trip andso did she right?
That felt very threatening tome and that was what my body
responded and did.
Another time I found a receiptin the car and it had a person's
(13:36):
name on it that I knew and Iimmediately knew that my spouse
was having an affair from thatone receipt.
Spouse was having an affairfrom that one receipt and
fortunately and fortunately, wewere in the car driving to the
airport with my children andtheir friends there was probably
eight teenagers in my carBecause, I don't know, I wanted
(14:00):
to jump out of the car.
So bad, like a moving car, thatfeels really like crazy, right,
but my body, it was all that.
I had to hold myself down forthe hour ride to the airport to
stay in that car.
I wanted out of that car so bad, I just wanted to scream.
And I had to sit there insilence and just my body going
(14:27):
nuts, because I knew of course Icouldn't do that to my kids, of
course I wasn't wanting to likedie, right, like I didn't want
to die, but I felt in thatmoment that I just needed to get
out of that car.
And that was my body reacting towhat I had just experienced,
without thinking right.
I was, of course, able to sitin my chair and think, and then
(14:50):
the worst part was I had to geton an airplane and fly home
which is like a three-hourflight and sit on an airplane
and be silent because I couldn'tsay anything.
But a few days later, my body,I ended up throwing something
and putting a hole in the wall.
(15:10):
It wasn't that big, but like itwas an outer body experience.
So if you've ever had thisouter body experience, I want
you to understand.
It's okay, right, like youaren't crazy.
This was your body reacting tosomething so shocking as your
spouse having an affair.
That that's just how it reacted.
Now, of course, worse thingscan happen, right.
(15:33):
So we do have to.
There is a point we have torecognize like okay, this is
what I want to do and this iswhat I need to do.
Just like me wanting, feelinglike I wanted to jump out of the
car.
I didn't jump out of the car, Iwas able to get a hold of
myself and sit there and go onthe airplane, right.
So that's why I just love thisbook.
(15:55):
It really helps explain.
He gives a story in there aboutlike a Vietnam veteran that
every 4th of July he just likegoes crazy and he just it's like
an outer body experience he wasdescribing and he would like
lay on the ground and think hewas getting shot at.
And it's just because that'swhat his body remembered, right,
(16:17):
that's what his body from beingin war.
It makes perfect sense whathappened to him, right, and he
was making it mean that he wascrazy and something is wrong
with me.
And luckily he was able to gethelp and realize like, oh, this
is why, even after 20, 30 yearsfrom being home from the war,
why the Fourth of July is such aterrible experience for me.
(16:40):
And now he learned copingskills and tools and things like
that.
Which is what I love aboutcoaching is teaching people.
Okay, these are tools that youcan use when this happens, so
you don't have to necessarily goto the airport and slap someone
right Like you have the tools.
(17:00):
You are aware of your nervoussystem.
Like, for me, understanding mynervous system changed my life
because I thought, oh my gosh,something's terribly wrong with
me.
Like I hit someone, I wanted tojump out of a car, like what is
going on?
Like I must be crazy.
No, that was my nervous systemdoing its job, protecting me and
(17:22):
reacting.
So once you know that, it justmakes your life and your
experience make more sense andyou can just have lots more
compassion and you can learn howto build your zone of
resilience, build your nervoussystem to make it stronger so
you don't get triggered as much.
So it's such a beautiful thing.
Okay, number three, dr Perrywrites.
(17:45):
So often when we ask whathappened, we find a history of
developmental trauma.
Most people with developmentaladversity are chronically
dysregulated.
So that's what I was.
My nervous system wascompletely dysregulated and I
think I was dysregulated foryears.
(18:05):
I didn't even understand mynervous system.
I remember going talking to thedoctor like, oh, I think I have
anxiety, right, so getting, okay, let me give you a pill and get
you on anxiety.
They didn't ask me maybe why Ihad anxiety and I probably don't
even know if I would havecorrelated like, oh, my
husband's having an affair andthat's probably why I have
(18:26):
anxiety.
But I thought, oh, I'm ananxious person, I'm just have
all this anxiety.
I need to fix it.
Well, I hated taking thosepills.
They didn't make me feel better, but I took them for a little
while and then I stopped takingthem and years later, now that
I'm divorced, I'm like, oh, I'mnot an anxious person, actually
Like, yeah, of course everyonehas anxiety sometimes, but in
(18:49):
general I am not.
I don't have anxiety.
It was because of what wasgoing on in my life at that
moment.
Of course I had anxiety, ofcourse I felt that way, one of
the maladaptive ways that peoplewill seek balance is through
risky behaviors such assubstance misuse or abuse,
(19:09):
sexual promiscuity or eatingdisorders.
Now, luckily, that wasn't myexperience, but I have so much
more compassion when I find outsomeone uses alcohol.
I have several clients thatthey tend to like, okay, drink,
right, and they're aware they'redrinking too much.
(19:32):
Yet they know it's not ideal,but they're in so much pain and
they're just trying to cope withwhat their reality is.
So it makes perfect sense.
Right, they don't want to feelthose feelings, right.
They're just trying to makesense of what's going on in
their life.
Right, and I don't think Iwould say I had an eating
(19:54):
disorder.
However, I definitely.
Food was my buffer, food was mynemesis.
I think I would use food tofeel better, to feel.
Feel if I could just get thepit in my stomach to go away.
Maybe if I eat more and forsure sugar, right, like it's not
, like I was eating carrots andcelery, I was eating cookies or
(20:18):
ice cream.
That would make me feel better.
So I wasn't necessarily have anactual eating disorder, but I
definitely used food.
Okay, the most powerful form ofreward is relational, without
connection to people who carefor you, spend time with you and
support you.
It is almost impossible to stepaway from an unhealthy form of
(20:42):
reward and regulation.
Connectedness counters the pullof addictive behaviors.
So I love this about this bookis that we need connection, and
I already talked about that lastweek.
The importance of connection,the importance of finding your
tribe, the importance of yourchildren feeling connected to
(21:02):
you.
If they can come to you andshare their feelings without you
going crazy or getting mad orangry.
If they can be honest to you,if they can come to you and
share their feelings without youyou know going crazy or getting
mad or angry, if they can behonest with you.
That's what's important thatrelationship with them.
So I just want you to imagine,like, how is this going on in
your life or the lives of othersaround you?
(21:22):
Are people using alcohol ormarijuana to numb their pain
from betrayal?
I'm guessing yes, right.
If it's not you, maybe it'syour kids, right?
Or your spouse?
So there's a lot of numbinggoing on and it just makes sense
.
For me, I think I was more likescrolling social media or binge
(21:43):
watching Netflix, or eatingsugar, which I talked about
before, and there could be amillion other things that you
could be doing.
How can we help promotepositive, healthy ways to
self-regulate and prevent futureharmful behaviors in ourselves
or those we care about?
Okay, learning about yournervous system that, in my
(22:07):
opinion, is a life changer and Ican totally teach you.
And if you don't want me toteach you, find resources on the
internet, on Instagram, onpodcasts.
Understand your unique nervoussystem.
It will totally help you figureout.
Okay, what do you need when youfeel dysregulated?
(22:28):
What do you need to regulateyourself?
Some of mine are.
I have a heated blanket that Ilike, love so much.
It's like a lap, just apersonal size heating blanket,
and I'll curl up on my bed for20 minutes and I'm really warm
and cozy and it just helps calmme down if I'm upset or
(22:49):
dysregulated.
I like doing puzzles.
I think for me, my life feltlike a lot of missing pieces
were in my life.
I had a lot of missing puzzlepieces and for me, doing puzzles
is very calming and it reallyhelps regulate me.
Walking with friends, listeningto my healing playlist I have a
(23:12):
playlist of songs that reallycalms my nervous system down
Getting or giving a hug,listening to podcasts, creating
something I love to create andmake things, writing my thoughts
on paper.
So these are just ideas.
You're going to have differentideas, different things that are
going to help you.
The last one I'm going to talkabout is Dr Perry shares wisdom
(23:34):
from his friend and colleague,dr Ed Tronick, who teaches us
the power of rupture and repair.
Think about some conditionsnecessary for repair to occur.
How can the concept of ruptureand repair align with how we
interact with others in ourfamilies or in our lives?
I love the concept of repairand I do it often.
(23:57):
I think that has been abeautiful healing thing for me
and for my kids is to repairwith them, because I've caused
them a lot of pain and, ofcourse, unintentionally, I
caused them pain.
I never realized how much painI caused them.
But the beautiful part isthey're able to come to me and
(24:18):
say Mom, you said this or youdid this and this is how I felt.
And I can just sit with themand validate them and have a
conversation with them.
I'm not there to say, well, didyou know that your father was
having an affair at the time?
And this is what I was feeling.
And of course you know, sorry,right, like that's not repair,
(24:42):
it's just sitting with them andallowing them to feel anything
that they felt, and then, ifthey want more, like, hey, mom,
what was going on for you, whatwas happening, then I can tell
them, but usually they just wantme to hear them.
Okay, so, take moments at, maybelike family dinner or just
different moments in your life,and you can find time to repair
(25:06):
and, I think, practicing doingit often.
It's important.
Pay attention to how you feelas a parent.
You're the example, right?
Hear what your child or spouseor other person has to say.
Right, I talked about that.
Validate them.
If you believe like, if you'relike, yeah, I messed up, like I
(25:26):
wish I would have been different.
Allow your kids to call you out, like I've really tried to
create a safe space in my home.
My kids call me out all thetime and I can call them out too
, and sometimes we get, you know, don't agree with each other,
and that's okay, but we alwaysend it with love like something.
It's not ending in a negative.
(25:48):
I'm always trying to like howwould love look like here?
This is the way to have close,connected relationships and
those relationships are going toteach you so much.
So, of course, what happened toyou, what happened to your kids,
have so much compassion forthings that have happened to
other people Wow, wonder whathappened to the guy at the
(26:10):
grocery store.
That's like yelling at me orbeing rude.
Just if you can keep that inthe back of your mind when you
have a negative experience andgo to oh wonder what happened to
them.
It just brings you back to lotsof compassion.
So I think this book I lovedthe book, obviously, but it
really gave me a differentperspective and it taught me
(26:33):
lots of different lessons andtools that I really want to
implement in my own life andhopefully you'll want to
implement them in yours.
I think the main thing islearning about your nervous
system and having compassionwhen you do things that are out
of the ordinary for you, and itmakes sense, of course, why,
(26:54):
especially when you'veexperienced betrayal, we do lots
of things that we think I can'tbelieve I did that.
So thanks so much for listening.
If you like this podcast, shareit with your family and friends
and I will talk to you nextweek.
If you want to learn how tolive happily even after, sign up
for my email at hello atlifecoachjenwith1ncom.
(27:15):
Follow me on Instagram andFacebook at Happily Even After.
Coach, let's work together tocreate your happily even after.
Welcome to my podcast .
Happily, even After.
I'm life coach, jen, I'mpassionate about helping people
recover from betrayal.
I rode the intense emotionalroller coaster and felt stuck
and traumatized for years.
It's the reason I became atrauma-informed certified life
coach who helps people like younavigate their post-betrayal
world.
I have the tools, processes andknowledge to help you not only
(00:32):
heal from the betrayal butcreate a healthy future.
Today we begin to help you livehappily even after.
Hey friends, welcome to today'spodcast.
I'm excited to be with youtoday.
So I feel like I, amazingly,have read a lot of books lately.
And the Commodity of Connection.
(00:53):
I actually did read that book.
That was last week, but thisweek I listened to it.
So sometimes I say I read it,but I really listened to it.
So just be kind to me, but Ihave been.
It's been a goal of mine tolisten or read more books and
I've been doing it.
I'm so proud of myself.
(01:13):
So this book that I read it wascalled what Happened to you
Conversations on Trauma,resilience and Healing, a book
with Oprah Winfrey and Dr BruceD Perry.
I would highly recommend it ifthis is a topic that is of
interest to you.
It really is to me.
I find trauma very fascinating.
(01:36):
I know that might sound weirdto someone, but it helps make
sense of things that haven'tmade sense to me, and so I love
the phrase what happened to you,because many of us say what's
wrong with you?
Right, when someone acts up, achild acts up or someone does
(02:00):
something that we consider evenmy former spouse, who had an
affair I could be like what'swrong with you, why did you do
that?
Instead of asking the questionwhat happened to you?
What happened to them?
It just is a lot morecompassionate, right, and it
really is true because probablysomething did in their younger
(02:22):
years to get them to where theyare now.
I was just thinking about timesrecently that I've been
triggered or something, and it'sa really bizarre thing, but I'm
going to share it.
So Meghan Markle if you guyshave seen her Netflix show on
this lifestyle show and people,the reason I started watching it
(02:45):
because I saw this negative,like kind of making fun of her
and these negative things aboutit, and so I was like hey to my
daughter, like let's watch thisshow, and there's a lot of like
I can agree to some of it.
Some of it's like really you'recooking spaghetti in a white
linen pair of pants and no apron, right.
(03:07):
That feels dangerous and likeunrealistic right.
So there's some funny things,but I in that moment watching
that, I just got so triggeredbecause, in my opinion now I'm
not going to say, but that iswho my former spouse expected me
(03:29):
to be and those are my thoughts.
So I'm not going to say,because obviously, meghan Markle
wasn't around when we weremarried, but that's how I felt,
so much that that was the ideal,that that is the wife he wanted
was someone that was creatingharvest baskets for their
(03:55):
neighbors and bringing them tohim and, you know, making every
meal by scratch and makinghomemade candles, and some of
the things she does may beextreme, and I actually really
love entertaining.
I think I really throw a goodparty and I do those things well
.
However, it just was never.
(04:15):
I never felt that it was goodenough or I maybe needed too
much help or whatever, and so,and like, cooking dinner is a
big trigger for me and I'vereally been aware of it because
I'm like, oh, this is somethingI want to heal from and I want
to be able to make a meal andnot sit there in complete panic
(04:38):
that I've missed an ingredient,or I have missed an ingredient
and for the next 20 years myhusband's going to make fun of
me for it and tell everyone thatI know about it and feel
embarrassed.
Or that you know I'm going tobuy the wrong brand at the
grocery store.
That's not as healthy.
Or why did I buy non-organicmilk?
(05:01):
And so those are extremes.
I'm not saying that he wasnecessarily that way, but also,
yes, he was that way, verycritical of me, that he had an
idea of the perfect wife and Inever.
I was not that.
And of course I tried so hard Ialways tried.
(05:25):
I really thought, okay, if Ican fix this, if I can master
this, if I can do this right,then he will stop having an
affair.
So I correlated the two.
They were not connected and itwasn't even true, but that's why
I really resonated, I think,like what happened to me.
So it can give me somecompassion.
(05:45):
Of course I'm that way, ofcourse I felt that way, but I
don't have to be that wayforever.
I can change.
And so I've taken a break, likeI'm so grateful for my daughter
she does all the cooking andgrocery shopping because I just
needed to take a break from thatmental game and just sit with
(06:09):
myself about that.
So that's one example that Ihave experienced that I'm really
trying to work on.
So I'm going to just share somequotes of Dr Perry and then talk
about them, okay.
So Dr Perry explains thatseemingly senseless or confusing
behavior makes more sense onceyou look at what is behind the
(06:31):
behavior.
Why did they do that?
What would make them act thatway?
Something happened thatinfluenced how their brain works
.
When was the last time youstruggled to understand behavior
from someone in your life?
And I think this question is sogood because so often I know
(06:54):
from my experience it's like Iknew something was going on,
like I felt it, like something.
I called them my spidey senses,like something.
I felt something and I was justalways trying to grasp and
trying to figure it out.
What, what was it?
And bizarrely, my brain didn'tgo oh, he's having an affair now
.
Sometimes it did, but usuallyI'm like I would be like, okay,
(07:17):
what have I done?
I would go to me.
What have I done wrong?
My husband's acting this waybecause probably something I did
which is so interesting, right,that says something about me,
right?
And but then I would feel thesefeelings, try to make sense of
them and really struggle.
Yet it was really somethingthat they were doing, right?
(07:42):
So I just think it'sinteresting to ask yourself
these questions what were yourreactions to the behavior?
Right, when you found out?
How did you react?
That's good information, right?
Did you get really angry?
Did you run away?
Did you freeze up and not sayanything?
Did you pretend it wasn'thappening?
(08:03):
Right?
Were you in denial?
Like there isn't a right orwrong way, it's just.
Our reaction is usually areason.
You know something that'shappened to us.
It's how we have adapted in ourlife.
Did you get frustrated, annoyedor angry because the behavior
made life harder for you, or didyou consider asking yourself
(08:24):
what was behind the behavior?
Right, for me, I took all hisaffairs to mean something about
me, even though I knew, probably, things in his childhood were
problematic.
Right, I didn't know that couldbe a reason for someone to have
an affair.
Now I know it was never aboutme.
(08:44):
Patterns, abandonment, need forvalidation were the reasons
that he was doing this.
Right, and so look at whateveryou're experiencing now and
consider, ask yourself thosequestions.
But really, what happened toyou and then, what happened to
me, to take it so personally.
(09:05):
Right, like, what was it aboutme?
I think I'm still working onthat.
Maybe I'm very loyal andtrusting of someone and can't
possibly imagine.
It's really hard for my brainto imagine someone doing
something like have an affair,right?
Well, he said he loved me.
He said you know, we gotmarried and we married each
(09:30):
other forever, right, like.
It just was hard for my brain.
I couldn't.
I couldn't accept it.
Okay.
The next quote from Dr Perrysays all experience is processed
from the bottom up.
Meaning to get to the top smartpart of our brain, which I like
to call the CEO part of ourbrain, we have to go through the
(09:51):
lower, primitive part.
That's not the smart part, okay.
So our thoughts, they start inour primitive brain and move to
the CEO, our smart part of ourbrain, okay, our prefrontal
cortex.
This sequential processingmeans that the most primitive
(10:11):
reacting part of the brain isthe first part to interpret and
act on the information coming infrom our senses.
So what this means is, beforewe even have a thought or a
feeling about what has justhappened, we react.
Okay.
So I just want to remind youI've said this before you can't
(10:34):
think your way out of betrayal.
We react like we don't evenknow that we're doing it, like
our body just will react and ourtrauma response is usually
fight, flight or freeze, anddifferent situations cause us to
do different things.
For me, I've experienced whenI've wanted to fly, like leave,
(10:59):
like literally jump out of a carand and or fight Okay, I'm
going to fight for our marriageand for sure I went into freeze
as well.
The bottom line our brain isorganized to act and feel before
we think.
How does our knowledge of thisway of processing information
(11:21):
help us to better understand theresponses of those close to us
or even ourselves?
So learning this fact how ourbody works like right, it's
scientific right, this is howour body works helped me really
have compassion for myself,because I've done some things in
(11:44):
my life that I'm not very proudof.
Like I'm like wait, that's notwho I am.
I've slapped a woman at theairport one time and it was the
other woman I mortified right.
For years and years I felt somuch shame and embarrassment for
(12:05):
doing that.
Years I felt so much shame andembarrassment for doing that
Like I thought I'm not someonethat hits anyone and yet I did
this right and I held it overmyself and I felt so awful.
And it's very interestingbecause about 20 years since
that happened I have been ableto repair with that person and
(12:30):
she said to me I deserve thatmore than you know and I am so
sorry for what I did to you, andwe repaired For me.
I was so grateful because Ijust never got to say sorry to
her because in my mind she wasthe enemy, she was the other
(12:51):
woman, she was encroaching on mylife and my marriage.
Yet you know, her story isdifferent, right, but I just
think we sometimes do thingswe're not proud of.
That's one thing I wasn't proudof, but it makes sense.
Of course my body was reactingbefore my mind could even get
(13:13):
there and make sense of what wasgoing on.
How is it possible that Ishowed up at the airport to pick
my husband up from a trip andso did she right?
That felt very threatening tome and that was what my body
responded and did.
Another time I found a receiptin the car and it had a person's
(13:36):
name on it that I knew and Iimmediately knew that my spouse
was having an affair from thatone receipt.
Spouse was having an affairfrom that one receipt and
fortunately and fortunately, wewere in the car driving to the
airport with my children andtheir friends there was probably
eight teenagers in my carBecause, I don't know, I wanted
(14:00):
to jump out of the car.
So bad, like a moving car, thatfeels really like crazy, right,
but my body, it was all that.
I had to hold myself down forthe hour ride to the airport to
stay in that car.
I wanted out of that car so bad, I just wanted to scream.
And I had to sit there insilence and just my body going
(14:27):
nuts, because I knew of course Icouldn't do that to my kids, of
course I wasn't wanting to likedie, right, like I didn't want
to die, but I felt in thatmoment that I just needed to get
out of that car.
And that was my body reacting towhat I had just experienced,
without thinking right.
I was, of course, able to sitin my chair and think, and then
(14:50):
the worst part was I had to geton an airplane and fly home
which is like a three-hourflight and sit on an airplane
and be silent because I couldn'tsay anything.
But a few days later, my body,I ended up throwing something
and putting a hole in the wall.
(15:10):
It wasn't that big, but like itwas an outer body experience.
So if you've ever had thisouter body experience, I want
you to understand.
It's okay, right, like youaren't crazy.
This was your body reacting tosomething so shocking as your
spouse having an affair.
That that's just how it reacted.
Now, of course, worse thingscan happen, right.
(15:33):
So we do have to.
There is a point we have torecognize like okay, this is
what I want to do and this iswhat I need to do.
Just like me wanting, feelinglike I wanted to jump out of the
car.
I didn't jump out of the car, Iwas able to get a hold of
myself and sit there and go onthe airplane, right.
So that's why I just love thisbook.
(15:55):
It really helps explain.
He gives a story in there aboutlike a Vietnam veteran that
every 4th of July he just likegoes crazy and he just it's like
an outer body experience he wasdescribing and he would like
lay on the ground and think hewas getting shot at.
And it's just because that'swhat his body remembered, right,
(16:17):
that's what his body from beingin war.
It makes perfect sense whathappened to him, right, and he
was making it mean that he wascrazy and something is wrong
with me.
And luckily he was able to gethelp and realize like, oh, this
is why, even after 20, 30 yearsfrom being home from the war,
why the Fourth of July is such aterrible experience for me.
(16:40):
And now he learned copingskills and tools and things like
that.
Which is what I love aboutcoaching is teaching people.
Okay, these are tools that youcan use when this happens, so
you don't have to necessarily goto the airport and slap someone
right Like you have the tools.
(17:00):
You are aware of your nervoussystem.
Like, for me, understanding mynervous system changed my life
because I thought, oh my gosh,something's terribly wrong with
me.
Like I hit someone, I wanted tojump out of a car, like what is
going on?
Like I must be crazy.
No, that was my nervous systemdoing its job, protecting me and
(17:22):
reacting.
So once you know that, it justmakes your life and your
experience make more sense andyou can just have lots more
compassion and you can learn howto build your zone of
resilience, build your nervoussystem to make it stronger so
you don't get triggered as much.
So it's such a beautiful thing.
Okay, number three, dr Perrywrites.
(17:45):
So often when we ask whathappened, we find a history of
developmental trauma.
Most people with developmentaladversity are chronically
dysregulated.
So that's what I was.
My nervous system wascompletely dysregulated and I
think I was dysregulated foryears.
(18:05):
I didn't even understand mynervous system.
I remember going talking to thedoctor like, oh, I think I have
anxiety, right, so getting, okay, let me give you a pill and get
you on anxiety.
They didn't ask me maybe why Ihad anxiety and I probably don't
even know if I would havecorrelated like, oh, my
husband's having an affair andthat's probably why I have
(18:26):
anxiety.
But I thought, oh, I'm ananxious person, I'm just have
all this anxiety.
I need to fix it.
Well, I hated taking thosepills.
They didn't make me feel better, but I took them for a little
while and then I stopped takingthem and years later, now that
I'm divorced, I'm like, oh, I'mnot an anxious person, actually
Like, yeah, of course everyonehas anxiety sometimes, but in
(18:49):
general I am not.
I don't have anxiety.
It was because of what wasgoing on in my life at that
moment.
Of course I had anxiety, ofcourse I felt that way, one of
the maladaptive ways that peoplewill seek balance is through
risky behaviors such assubstance misuse or abuse,
(19:09):
sexual promiscuity or eatingdisorders.
Now, luckily, that wasn't myexperience, but I have so much
more compassion when I find outsomeone uses alcohol.
I have several clients thatthey tend to like, okay, drink,
right, and they're aware they'redrinking too much.
(19:32):
Yet they know it's not ideal,but they're in so much pain and
they're just trying to cope withwhat their reality is.
So it makes perfect sense.
Right, they don't want to feelthose feelings, right.
They're just trying to makesense of what's going on in
their life.
Right, and I don't think Iwould say I had an eating
(19:54):
disorder.
However, I definitely.
Food was my buffer, food was mynemesis.
I think I would use food tofeel better, to feel.
Feel if I could just get thepit in my stomach to go away.
Maybe if I eat more and forsure sugar, right, like it's not
, like I was eating carrots andcelery, I was eating cookies or
(20:18):
ice cream.
That would make me feel better.
So I wasn't necessarily have anactual eating disorder, but I
definitely used food.
Okay, the most powerful form ofreward is relational, without
connection to people who carefor you, spend time with you and
support you.
It is almost impossible to stepaway from an unhealthy form of
(20:42):
reward and regulation.
Connectedness counters the pullof addictive behaviors.
So I love this about this bookis that we need connection, and
I already talked about that lastweek.
The importance of connection,the importance of finding your
tribe, the importance of yourchildren feeling connected to
(21:02):
you.
If they can come to you andshare their feelings without you
going crazy or getting mad orangry.
If they can be honest to you,if they can come to you and
share their feelings without youyou know going crazy or getting
mad or angry, if they can behonest with you.
That's what's important thatrelationship with them.
So I just want you to imagine,like, how is this going on in
your life or the lives of othersaround you?
(21:22):
Are people using alcohol ormarijuana to numb their pain
from betrayal?
I'm guessing yes, right.
If it's not you, maybe it'syour kids, right?
Or your spouse?
So there's a lot of numbinggoing on and it just makes sense
.
For me, I think I was more likescrolling social media or binge
(21:43):
watching Netflix, or eatingsugar, which I talked about
before, and there could be amillion other things that you
could be doing.
How can we help promotepositive, healthy ways to
self-regulate and prevent futureharmful behaviors in ourselves
or those we care about?
Okay, learning about yournervous system that, in my
(22:07):
opinion, is a life changer and Ican totally teach you.
And if you don't want me toteach you, find resources on the
internet, on Instagram, onpodcasts.
Understand your unique nervoussystem.
It will totally help you figureout.
Okay, what do you need when youfeel dysregulated?
(22:28):
What do you need to regulateyourself?
Some of mine are.
I have a heated blanket that Ilike, love so much.
It's like a lap, just apersonal size heating blanket,
and I'll curl up on my bed for20 minutes and I'm really warm
and cozy and it just helps calmme down if I'm upset or
(22:49):
dysregulated.
I like doing puzzles.
I think for me, my life feltlike a lot of missing pieces
were in my life.
I had a lot of missing puzzlepieces and for me, doing puzzles
is very calming and it reallyhelps regulate me.
Walking with friends, listeningto my healing playlist I have a
(23:12):
playlist of songs that reallycalms my nervous system down
Getting or giving a hug,listening to podcasts, creating
something I love to create andmake things, writing my thoughts
on paper.
So these are just ideas.
You're going to have differentideas, different things that are
going to help you.
The last one I'm going to talkabout is Dr Perry shares wisdom
(23:34):
from his friend and colleague,dr Ed Tronick, who teaches us
the power of rupture and repair.
Think about some conditionsnecessary for repair to occur.
How can the concept of ruptureand repair align with how we
interact with others in ourfamilies or in our lives?
I love the concept of repairand I do it often.
(23:57):
I think that has been abeautiful healing thing for me
and for my kids is to repairwith them, because I've caused
them a lot of pain and, ofcourse, unintentionally, I
caused them pain.
I never realized how much painI caused them.
But the beautiful part isthey're able to come to me and
(24:18):
say Mom, you said this or youdid this and this is how I felt.
And I can just sit with themand validate them and have a
conversation with them.
I'm not there to say, well, didyou know that your father was
having an affair at the time?
And this is what I was feeling.
And of course you know, sorry,right, like that's not repair,
(24:42):
it's just sitting with them andallowing them to feel anything
that they felt, and then, ifthey want more, like, hey, mom,
what was going on for you, whatwas happening, then I can tell
them, but usually they just wantme to hear them.
Okay, so, take moments at, maybelike family dinner or just
different moments in your life,and you can find time to repair
(25:06):
and, I think, practicing doingit often.
It's important.
Pay attention to how you feelas a parent.
You're the example, right?
Hear what your child or spouseor other person has to say.
Right, I talked about that.
Validate them.
If you believe like, if you'relike, yeah, I messed up, like I
(25:26):
wish I would have been different.
Allow your kids to call you out, like I've really tried to
create a safe space in my home.
My kids call me out all thetime and I can call them out too
, and sometimes we get, you know, don't agree with each other,
and that's okay, but we alwaysend it with love like something.
It's not ending in a negative.
(25:48):
I'm always trying to like howwould love look like here?
This is the way to have close,connected relationships and
those relationships are going toteach you so much.
So, of course, what happened toyou, what happened to your kids,
have so much compassion forthings that have happened to
other people Wow, wonder whathappened to the guy at the
(26:10):
grocery store.
That's like yelling at me orbeing rude.
Just if you can keep that inthe back of your mind when you
have a negative experience andgo to oh wonder what happened to
them.
It just brings you back to lotsof compassion.
So I think this book I lovedthe book, obviously, but it
really gave me a differentperspective and it taught me
(26:33):
lots of different lessons andtools that I really want to
implement in my own life andhopefully you'll want to
implement them in yours.
I think the main thing islearning about your nervous
system and having compassionwhen you do things that are out
of the ordinary for you, and itmakes sense, of course, why,
(26:54):
especially when you'veexperienced betrayal, we do lots
of things that we think I can'tbelieve I did that.
So thanks so much for listening.
If you like this podcast, shareit with your family and friends
and I will talk to you nextweek.
If you want to learn how tolive happily even after, sign up
for my email at hello atlifecoachjenwith1ncom.
(27:15):
Follow me on Instagram andFacebook at Happily Even After.
Coach, let's work together tocreate your happily even after.
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