July 15, 2025 • 41 mins
In today’s episode, I’m joined by Erin Bradley—host of the Pursuing Freedom podcast, bestselling author, speaker, and real estate business coach on a mission to help agents build a life they don’t need a vacation from 🙌
Erin shares her powerful story of hitting rock bottom early in her real estate career (we’re talking maxed-out credit cards and a declined coffee order), and how that low moment set her on a path toward building a thriving, referral-based business rooted in authenticity, joy, and freedom.
We talk about:
- Why traditional sales tactics feel out of alignment for so many agents
- How to create real human connection without burning out
- What “vacation energy” is—and how to tap into it daily
- A totally doable strategy for creating a business that supports your life (not the other way around)
- Why more conversations—not more hustle—is the key to growth
Whether you’re just getting started or you’ve been in the business for years, this episode will inspire you to build in a way that feels good and works.
✨ Grab Erin’s free 5-Step Guide to More Referrals
https://erin-bradley.mykajabi.com/5-step-opt-in
🔗 Learn more about Erin and Pursuing Freedom
Website: pursuingfreedom.com
Instagram: @pursuingfreedomofficial
Let's stay connected!
💼 Coaching with Lindsay – happyagent.co/coaching
Get personalized strategy, support, and mindset shifts to scale your real estate business without sacrificing your joy.
🎓 Happy Agent Academy – happyagent.co/academy
Your go-to resource for freebies, on-demand courses, templates, and tools to help you grow a thriving real estate business.
📩 Join the Happy Hustle Newsletter – happyagent.co/subscribe
Weekly insights, strategies, and real talk to help you build wealth, lead boldly, and create a business you love.
📲 Let's Connect on Instagram or Facebook – instagram.com/happyagentco
Daily tips, inspiration, and behind-the-scenes of what it really takes to create success with joy.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friends, you are in for a treat.
Today I am chatting with ErinBradley, host of the Pursuing
Freedom podcast.
Definitely check it out.
Bestselling, author, speaker,coach and, seriously, just one
of those people who lights up aroom, any room that she enters.
She's on a mission to help realestate professionals build a
life that they don't need avacation from which, obviously,
(00:22):
we're all about around here, wetalk about everything from the
moment where she had a creditcard declined at a coffee shop
to redefining success on yourown terms.
Erin's story is real.
It's full of truth bombs thatwe all need right now,
especially if you're feelingburned out, stuck or like you're
paddling upstream.
If you've been craving more joy, more ease and more alignment
(00:45):
in your business, you are goingto love this conversation.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hey Erin, oh, hey girl, hi Lindsay.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
All right.
So for those of you who do notknow the incredible Erin Bradley
, can you tell us who you areand what you do?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Sure, so my name is Erin and I am the founder of an
organization called PursuingFreedom, which started with a
book that I published by thesame title in 2016, and then
started a podcast by the sametitle so original in 2018.
And it's led over the years toa lot of speaking and coaching,
and just really connecting withfreedom seekers is what I like
(01:29):
to refer to.
And I say this because when Iwent 100% commission in the real
estate space in 2007, perfecttiming I was on the mortgage
side, yeah, but I had nofinancial safety net, no
confidence, no systems, no gameplan and, honestly, all the
training I was given just feltreally dreadful and out of
(01:51):
alignment with who I am, and soI promptly fell flat on my face
and within a year of going 100%commission it was the summer of
2008, I had to ride my bike to aclient meeting because I didn't
have enough money for gas.
I was maxed out on all mycredit cards and got there early
to make sure the sweat driesoff before I meet the client,
and unfortunately, he got thereearly too and introduced himself
(02:11):
to me at the counter as mycredit card was being declined
for a cup of coffee.
So the worst part is I thoughtthat was the card that would
work, but I didn't know what todo because if another card was
declined, he would know the gigis up.
So I just lied and was likethat's so weird, I'm going to
have to call the bank Anyhow.
He bought my coffee and I wasmortified and I just remember
feeling like a failure andasking my dad for some advice
(02:34):
and he basically said look, ifyou think you're going to be
good at this, do whatever ittakes.
And so I opened another creditcard.
I bought internet leads,whatever that means in 2008.
And I hired a coach and youknow a lot of people say they
can't afford to hire a coach.
And I was at a point where Icouldn't afford not to because
what I was doing wasn't working.
And you know a lot of peoplethink, oh man, what was it like
(02:56):
coming into the industry as theindustry was crashing all around
you and I was like, well, thegood thing is I had nowhere to
go but up.
You know my only perspectivewas to climb.
And so I hired the coach and outof desperation, I just said
tell me what to do and I'll doit.
And I don't disagree with thisapproach that you need to have a
game plan.
(03:16):
However, even with all theaction, even with getting
results and starting to closedeals and being able to pay my
bills, there was still somethingmissing I was.
I never felt like I trulybelonged in this industry.
I always felt like a bit of analien, and it wasn't until four
years in, in 2011, that somebodygave me the book the Go-Giver.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And I read it.
Oh, it's one of my favorites.
Yes, it's such a good book.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And if the listeners haven't read it, you have to
read it.
It was a complete paradigmshift for me and everything
clicked, because what I realizedis that, up until the point of
reading the Go-Giver where theconcept is that the goal is to
give value above and beyond whatyou get paid to do, or be a
value beyond even the servicethat you provide, everything I
had been doing to date wasreally push marketing about me
(04:05):
and how I could solve my problemby making more calls, writing
more notes, seeing more peopleand get more leads, get more
deals, get the money to solve myproblem, to pay my bills.
And so, even when I wasexecuting with consistency,
there was resistance in it, likeI would.
I knew what I was supposed todo.
I was sitting in a state ofinsecurity and fear and failure
(04:27):
and I had the action plan and ifI muscle through the activity,
I'd even get results.
But something wasn't quiteright, like it wasn't enjoyable.
So when I read the Go-Giver, Iwas like, oh, this makes way
more sense.
I've been a go-getter andthat's not really who I am, but
I can develop a process where Ican systematically be a value to
(04:48):
my clients even when they don'tneed my services, which
immediately it made all the fearevaporate, like my insecurity
was replaced with curiosity howcan I be a value to you today,
even if you don't need myservices?
So I was able to becomeunleashed in more communication
with people I care about andfinding ways to be a resource,
(05:08):
and my business blew up.
I mean it more than doubled.
I went from averaging like 30transactions a year to doing
nearly 80, which sounds like agreat problem to have.
I was earning more than I everanticipated, but I was pregnant
with my second child and I wasdrowning.
I was working 24 seven,tethered to my phone.
My daughter was born at the endof 2012.
And I remember asking advice ofsome of my colleagues.
(05:32):
If I ended the year almost $20million in volume, there were
other men and women doing $30million in volume.
Kids were a little older thanmine and I asked them for advice
and they all admitted thatafter they put their kids to bed
, they work until 10, 11, 12o'clock at night and they've
never taken a vacation withoutbeing tethered to their phone.
And I just remember thinkingthis isn't what I signed up for
(05:53):
either Like I'm finally makingmoney, but at the expense of my
present moments with my kids, myfamily, my friends.
I was becoming a shell ofmyself.
I was pretending I was finewhen I wasn't, and I was praying
for it to slow down so I couldcome up for a breath of air.
And when this happens,inevitably your prayers come
true.
The pipeline dries up and youdon't feel relaxed, you panic,
(06:16):
and so I just remember thinkingI don't feel free having my
credit card decline for a $2 cupof coffee, and I don't feel
like I have freedom andflexibility when I'm simply a
slave to my business to sustainthis quote, unquote success that
I've built.
And so I almost quit thebusiness, but luckily I didn't.
I found more mentors and coachesand communities and I started
(06:38):
to design my business to fueland finance my life, and as I
did, I became obsessed withteaching real estate agents what
I was doing, and so it just ledto a lot of workshops and
conferences where I would teachthe strategy that worked to be
yourself, increase yourreferrals and have more fun
growing your business.
And I found I wasn't alone, likethere's other people out there
that don't want to fit the moldof outdated salesy tactics and
(07:04):
and want to be themselves, beauthentic, but they also crave
financial stability andsignificance, and you can have
both.
It doesn't have to be one orthe other.
And if we're going to beself-employed and we know this
is not the easy route if you'renot willing to design it to give
you the time freedom that youcrave and the ability to be
present with your loved ones andto take those vacations, then
what's the point?
(07:24):
Go work for somebody else who'sgoing to give you permission to
be off for two weeks out of theyear, and it's really kind of
wild that this isn't talkedabout more.
In our industry.
The burnout level is at anall-time high, even experienced
and again external success.
When I say the word successful,like even experienced realtors
and lenders who are closingdeals right now can admit
(07:44):
they're kind of bored, they're alittle burned out and there is
a better way.
So that's my passion.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I love it and I 100% agree with everything that you
said.
I am curious to get yourthoughts on why do you feel like
the real estate industry is soobsessed with being a go-getter?
Why are they so obsessed withthis mentality of just like you
have, it's always more, more,more From your perspective?
(08:13):
Why is there that obsession?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, I have two parts to answer this question.
Number one why is there ago-getter energy?
It's fear-based.
So, thinking back to when youfirst took the leap of faith,
you go a hundred percentcommission, you forego the
steady paycheck and the securityof that.
The very first thing you'regoing to feel is fear and
(08:37):
uncertainty.
And so out of that, in thatspace, we seek guidance, and
those who are training ushaven't necessarily dissolved
their own fears that have beendeeply embedded in them since
day one.
I think that we develop thesethoughts, these fears become
beliefs, become behaviors thatbecome habits, then become our
(09:00):
excuses for why we say, well, Ihave to, I need to, I just have
to, it's real quick, honey, Ijust have to take.
It's real quick, honey, I justhave to take that call.
And it's like says who you arethe boss.
Right, you became self-employedfor a reason.
So in the beginning we don'tknow what we're capable of.
And so when the businessinevitably picks up which it
will, as long as you don't quitand as long as you're willing to
(09:20):
seek guidance and start takingsome action, you're going to
inevitably start having somebusiness going on, and at that
point you feel so lucky that youconvince yourself.
It's totally fine to justbecome completely out of
alignment to serve the clients,right?
I mean, we're servant-heartedpeople and we're willing to
compromise our own valuessometimes to make sure we don't
(09:42):
let others down.
But the other part to thequestion that I want to address
is when you say why more, more,more?
I actually don't think there'sanything wrong with the concept
of more, more, more, because Ibelieve that as human beings,
we're on this planet to grow andexpand and learn and improve,
and the reason I feel that way,interestingly enough, is I read
(10:03):
this book called the Gap and theGain by Benjamin Hardy.
Have you read that?
Yes, yep.
So for the listeners, the Gapand the Gain it's really good.
But he talks about the threat ofthe more, more, more right, in
the sense that the idea behindthe Gap and the Gain is that,
most specifically Americans, inour society, it's like you set a
goal, you achieve it, and thenit's quickly replaced by a new
(10:26):
desire.
And now the goalpost has movedand you're back in a state of
unfulfillment or not enough, orangst or stress about not being
there yet.
And then you get there and youcelebrate for a minute, and so
you're constantly in the gapbetween where you are and where
you want to be next, rather thanthe gain, which is the distance
from where you are and whereyou want to be next, rather than
the gain, which is the distancefrom where you are to where you
(10:46):
started.
And we've always so like.
We talk about this a lot in mycoaching community how, if you
picture your life as anascension, you're climbing a
mountain and you're alwaysstriving for whatever is next,
whatever feels exciting to youOn that climb.
There's valleys along the way,but even in that valley, you may
feel stuck, you may be in aslump, it may feel like the
depths of despair or darkness,and it can come for all kinds of
(11:10):
reasons, right, but you'restill at a higher elevation than
you were when you started, andso the gap in the game concept
is to remember how far you'vecome.
However, I think that there'sbeauty in the more more.
More because we can be awitness to how many times in our
lives we've achieved something,and it's quickly replaced by
that new desire, and I thinkthat's what keeps life
(11:31):
interesting.
I think the joy is in theacknowledgement that so much of
the unfolding that's happeningall the time is actually
relatively unscripted by us andif we could lighten up and have
more fun in the process ofengaging with our community,
seeking things that interest us,being willing to let go of the
(11:52):
things that don't interest usanymore.
Just because we used to like itdoesn't mean we still do Like.
That's part of the humanexperience.
It's okay to evolve, it's okayto release the vine and to
graduate from things that nolonger serve you.
As you're on this journey ofexploration and, I believe, like
upward mobility, I mean, I hopeI'm always seeking and growing
and learning and expanding.
(12:12):
I hope I never get to a placewhere I get to complacency
because I think there's fun init as long as it's not
accompanied by the strife andthe striving and the
compromising of your sanity toget to it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, I think like it comes down to alignment and
integrity with what you want andreally like your goals.
And so I think you kind of saidit, which is we have to define
our definition of success, andthat's what we're working for
definition of success and that'swhat we're working for.
(12:47):
So, if more, more, more is inthe quest of what you define as
success or your end goal, it'snot defined by somebody else,
and I think so often we're inthis in real estate, we're
defining our success by externalmetrics that we didn't choose
our for ourselves.
We, like the industry, chosethem for us, whether it's I need
to be the top producer at mybrokerage or I need to have 25
team members, or whatever it is.
(13:10):
There's this enough is notenough, and I think that more,
more, more can be absolutely inalignment as long as you're
intentionally choosing that.
And I also think the flip sideis there is there's like
satisfaction or success inhaving enough as well, depending
on what season of life you'rein and what your goals are and
(13:30):
what your success metrics are.
So I love your explanation Ithink it was.
It's it's really nuanced, but Ithink it comes down to what's
in alignment with you and whatdo you want and what's joyful
for you and what's enjoyable foryou, and what's enjoyable for
you and what's authentic for you.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Well, also, it's interesting because when we talk
about the nuance of more, more,more right, and the connotation
and like the negativeconnotation connecting it to
some external metric like moremoney.
But what I'm saying is more,more more is like more joy, more
peace, more connection, morefun.
More more is like more joy,more peace, more connection,
more fun, more adventure.
And funny enough in ourindustry, when I ask if I'm in a
(14:10):
room full of real estateprofessionals, ask anyone to
raise their hand.
Who's ever seen their businesspop when they go on vacation or
they intend to go on vacation orattend right?
And everybody's like hands inthe air and it's so annoying,
right, we're like we're going totake some time off and then the
phone rings and I reallybelieve deep down in my soul
that that's because there's aspecial energy, that's vacation
(14:32):
energy.
That when you're excited, whenyou're having fun, when you're
not thinking about work at all,you're just being your true,
authentic self, your heart andsoul.
All of a sudden it's like theuniversal lines to match you to
people that suddenly show up inyour path needing your support.
And we separate ourselves fromthat when we put on the work hat
and we start thinking like whatcould I do today?
(14:54):
What should I do today to solvemy problem?
This void in my bank account, mypipelines dried up, the rates,
the inventory, the market, allthe world, the economy, the
politics it's All that stuff isjust pushing on the dimmer
switch of the light within us.
But there is a light within usand when it's on, when we can
activate vacation energy, it'slike turning on the lighthouse
(15:16):
in the storm and the ships startcoming to port.
So I'm more interested inhelping real estate
professionals figure out what itmeans to them at this stage, at
this juncture.
What does more joy look likefor you.
What is more connection, moreauthenticity, more love, more
impact, more fun look like foryou?
And how do we cultivatevacation energy on a daily basis
(15:37):
so it doesn't have to be aseparation of our soul from our
business, and it's incrediblehow it leads to growth in
business.
And it's a little bit of aninside out approach, right, a
different frequency to the samedestination, which is abundance.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yes, you're right, it's changing the frequency
instead of the fear of what'sgoing on around you and yes,
there is a lot going on rightnow.
It's really just amping thatattraction energy.
So I'm with you on that.
There's a lot of agents whothey are in the doom scrolling
(16:18):
anti-vacation energy spiralright now.
What do you have, like?
What advice do you have forthem?
What is like one or two thingsyou feel like they can do to
kind of get moving in the rightdirection.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, first things first.
Whether people agree with it ornot, I don't.
I don't watch the news, I don'tspiral down on things I can't
control that are going to sap meof my energy.
My energy is everything andprotecting it is my number one
priority, because the purpose oflife is to enjoy each day and
to live it to the fullest thatwe possibly can in the
(16:54):
environment that we're in.
What does it mean for me tohave the most impact today?
And so something that a mentorsaid to me in a workshop in 2011
, a million years ago, but Iremember it so much.
She said whenever I'm in a funk, she said all morning, while I
go through my morning routine,while I shower, get ready, I
just repeat to myself I intendto be of value to every person I
(17:17):
meet today.
I intend to be of value toevery person I meet today.
I intend to be a value to everyperson I meet today.
And as I do that, I start toshift from a negative state of
emotion and fear and anxiety andworry and lack of control to a
state of curiosity andcontentment and hope and purpose
.
Right, and then I have to askmyself well, who can I be a
value to today if I'm nottalking to anybody because I'm
stuck here in my own funk?
So I've got to awaken to thecuriosity to find someone to
(17:42):
serve today, and that could beas simple as being nicer out in
the world when I'm buying a cupof coffee, or I'm at the grocery
store, or slowing down when I'mon a walk and I bump into a
neighbor who's walking their dogand not need to have my AirPods
in and fly past them in a hurryto get to nowhere, right?
So what does it look like to bea value to every person you
meet today?
And then the other thing I'llsay the most powerful thing that
(18:05):
I can ever encourage anyone todo when they're feeling lonely
is to know that you're not aloneand to get in the room with
people that are energizers.
So ask yourself where are youspending time?
Consuming information or havingconversations, and are those
things energizing you ordraining you further?
So seek out the room withpeople that remind you of your
(18:28):
future, because there are a lotof people right now in this
world, in my community, people Imeet on my podcast, that are
thriving, that are having theirbest year ever, and the one
common denominator is they hangaround people, whether it's
masterminds, communities,mentors that people are seeking
ways to be of value, seekingways to be of impact, and their
(18:49):
business is growing as abyproduct.
So we can't wait for theexternal circumstances to change
to give ourselves permission tolet our light shine again.
And if the light isextinguished again, hang around
somebody that can ignite thatflame or ignite that spark
within you, and then go sharethat spark with somebody else,
because your light will shinebrighter the more people you
help and serve.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I love that and that goes back to the go.
Giver.
It's all about that givinggenerous energy.
I love that and that goes backto the go.
(19:35):
Very simple.
It's actually not that hard toshow up with a generous spirit
every single day and it ispretty magical.
Magic happens, you attractthose opportunities, you attract
those people and it really doesjust snowball from there.
So that was really amazingadvice.
So, in terms of creating abusiness that you want to run
(20:01):
towards, which you that is yourterm and I love it so you have a
strategy for real estate agentsto create a business that they
actually want to like.
They're so excited and like sorevved up to go run towards and
build.
So can you dive into more ofthat strategy and what you
recommend?
Because I think that so oftenwe're like backwards looking and
(20:24):
I love this idea of likeforward looking.
So take the mic, let's go.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah Well, there's no shortage of sales training out
there.
That gives you the action plan,and if you're in a state where
you're on the negative side ofthe emotional spectrum or
energetic spectrum and you'relooking at your year to date,
you're looking at your volume,your pipeline, your bank account
, all the things, and it'sbringing you down right.
(20:52):
In my opinion, logging morehours, checking more boxes,
taking more action isn't theantidote, so the first thing to
do is just be okay with that'swhere you are and then do some
practices to help move yourselfalong the emotional scale, which
can look like making a list ofall the people you've met in the
(21:12):
last 12 months that have had apositive impact on your life
that you didn't conjure up andhunt down and bring into your
existence.
The stars align, the pathscross, like Lindsay and I, you
know, we didn't know each othera year ago and now we've become
friends through an introduction.
But I didn't make that happen,you didn't make that happen.
It's just, it's an evolution,and all the time we can be a
witness to how much beauty inour life is unscripted and how
(21:35):
many good things have happened,and it's a reminder that, as I
look ahead to the future.
I haven't even met half thepeople that are going to show up
on my path on the journeytowards my new desire, right,
whatever that is for me at thistime in my life.
And the other thing is that Ihear a lot of people in the
business specifically seasoned,you know, experienced realtors
and lenders that say things likeI just have to, I just need to,
(21:57):
I just have to get back to thebasics.
I got to get back to thefundamentals.
I just need to make some morefun goals.
I know what I need to do andI'm like I know you know what
you need to do.
But the fact is, everything youjust said, right there was so
laden with resistance and dreadand heaviness that even if you
were to execute with 100%consistency which chances are
(22:18):
you're not, because it feelslike a pain chances are you're
not executing.
But even if you were executingwith 100% consistency, it's
falling flat because you're noteven enjoying the process.
You're just going through themotions because you've got a
problem to solve.
So what I like to do is kind ofreverse engineer this and say
all right, so let's imagineLindsay's in my database.
She's a client that I helped in2021.
(22:40):
I haven't talked to her since.
I'm feeling really bad aboutthat.
But I really like Lindsay and Ieven think to myself I'm going
to call Lindsay, she's one of myfavorite people.
And then the chatter starts toactivate in my mind.
But Lindsay doesn't need to buya house right now or sell a
house, because she's got a rateof 3%.
And all the chatter startshappening and I always say, yeah
, you're right, that's a youproblem, that's 100% a you
(23:04):
problem.
And you're so focused on theyou problem, which is the
byproduct of whatever you'vebeen doing or not been doing the
last 60 to 90 days.
And one thing I know for sure ifLindsay woke up at three
o'clock in the morning lastnight and she couldn't fall back
asleep, I know with 100%certainty what was keeping her
up at night was not my pipeline,it was not my volume, it was
(23:28):
not my real estate business andthere was something keeping you
up.
So my job is to take my workhat off.
Was something keeping you up?
So my job is to take my workhat off, take the agenda out of
it Like if I needed nothing.
Tap into that.
How could I be a value?
How would I want to feel today?
How would I want to show up inthe world and who could I be a
value to?
(23:49):
And if Lindsay's a person Ireally enjoyed getting to know
and I haven't spoken to her inyears or months or whatever, and
I'm feeling really bad aboutthat and I don't know what to
talk about, because I don'tthink she wants to talk about
real estate, you're right.
Okay.
So just exactly scratch thatall together and get curious
about what is the 3 am moment.
The 3 am moment is whateverLindsay is working on right now,
(24:10):
whatever she's excited about,whatever she's worried about.
That's what she cares about.
My job is only to show up there.
There's a really great quotethat said it's when you step
back from the single brushstrokethat you can see the entire
painting.
So I always think to myself thereal estate transaction is just
one brushstroke in the painting.
Once we've gotten to theclosing table, until they need
(24:32):
my services again, my job is toget to the bottom of the
brushstroke of the paintingyou're on right now.
They need my services again.
My job is to get to the bottomof the brushstroke of the
painting you're on right now.
And when we really drill downfrom a strategic perspective
let's say, lindsay.
When I helped her buy a housein 2021, was single or married
or engaged or whatever datingbut she wasn't married yet.
Now it's 2025.
She's married, she has a 14month old baby, she works full
(24:55):
time.
She's got a spouse.
Like chances are, the 3ammoment for Lindsay today is
radically different than when Imet her and helped her buy a
house a couple of years ago.
So all I need to do is show upfor you where you are today, not
where I need you, and in thatway I can have an impact from my
heart to your heart and that'sgoing to ripple out to the
(25:18):
conversations at the dinnertable and at the office or on
the sidelines, like I'm tryingto get to the heart of the
matter.
And when I stop worrying aboutmy bank account, my pipeline, my
issues, it becomes much moreeasy to engage from a place of
curiosity and contribution.
And what I've noticed is thatwhen you do this, when you can
(25:39):
like clean, I always say if youthink about your database, but
picture it like a garden inspringtime, and when you come
into your garden in springtime,it's filled with weeds.
There's stuff that pops upevery year that you might like.
Maybe it's just been theresince you moved in.
There's stuff that you plantevery year and there's stuff
that you've never even reallyevaluated.
If you like it or not.
It's just there and it's justwhat you've accepted.
(26:02):
Now think about your database.
Like that garden and go to thedatabase and just pluck the
weeds.
You don't have to eliminatethem from your life or even your
CRM, but like, just pluck theweeds, pluck the things that
feel like a maybe and thenidentify the relationships that
are that hell yes, energy.
Like I freaking love Lindsay.
(26:23):
Every time I talk to Lindsay I'mhappy, I'm energized, all the
things, and with no agenda, onlycuriosity.
Start to re-engage with thosepeople from a place of service,
get curious, find ways to be aresource to them, and you will
be shocked by how quickly youstart to see your business
compound and those types ofrelationships you really enjoy
(26:44):
today start to multiply.
So we start to have a littlemore fun with the process of
communicating with people.
We care about checking in withhow they're doing, finding ways
to connect them to serviceproviders or just show them we
love them and appreciate themwith a handwritten note or a
gift or something, and within 60to 90 days you see your
(27:06):
referrals, seemingly out of theblue, not from Lindsay, because
I remember I didn't call Lindsaybecause I was hoping to get
something out of it.
I just called her because Icare about her.
All of a sudden, though out ofthe blue, I'm getting phone
calls and DMs and text messagesand bumping into people that are
asking me about real estate.
And it's all because we're doingthe work to turn the light on
from within.
We're sharing that light withpeople we genuinely care about
(27:28):
and we're having faith in theunscripted that we haven't even
met half the people that aregoing to help us get from where
we are to where we're trying togo.
It feels a lot more fun, it's alot lighter and it's just the
difference between paddlingupstream, doing all the
obligation stuff that the salestrainer told you you should do
to solve your problem.
It all feels like upstreamenergy or just get on the raft.
Let's get on the raft and godownstream, get in the flow,
(27:51):
have some fun, but it's likeeveryone I know that's having
their actual best year ever inreal estate or mortgage.
Right now, the one thing thatthey're doing is they're hanging
around people that believethere's opportunity and they're
having tons of conversations,and the only way to get into
conversation is to get out ofour head and stop thinking.
This conversation is going toserve me yes.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I am so with you on this.
The conversation piece is socrucial.
So my brokerage is inWashington DC and there are
massive layoffs, as you know,with the federal government or
maybe you don't because youdon't listen to the news.
We're lucky.
But the agents that I know thatare doing really well right now
.
They aren't scared to engagethose people who are going
(28:33):
through that hard lifetransition.
And a lot of people I talk tothey're like well, I don't want
to be an ambulance chaser andI'm like you're not calling
those people to ask them do theywant to sell their house?
You're calling to check on thembecause you have a good
relationship with them.
Are you okay?
Like, what's your next move?
Do you need an introduction tosomebody for like, a new job?
(28:53):
Like, how are you guys doing?
Do you need me to send you?
Do you need me to make youdinner?
Like I mean, it's thosepersonal relationships where you
don't have to be scared whenyou come from it from a
generosity lens.
It's like we're not ambulancechasing and I think so much of
the advice is just make yourcalls, ask for referrals.
But that's not what it's about.
(29:15):
It's exactly what you're saying, which is let's be of service
to people.
Let's build real relationships.
Let's have real connections,the heart to heart is what you
said and I agree.
It's like that heart to heartconnection is it's human, it's
like we're we're connecting on ahuman level, it's not a
business level, and if you canconnect on that human level,
first the business comes.
You don't have to worry aboutit, and you and I both built
(29:37):
very robust referral basedbusinesses and that's where it
comes from is it's that humanconnection of I care about you
as a person and they know thatyou're going to care about
whoever you bring into theirlife, like whoever they
introduced to you to.
They know you're going to careabout them just as much, and
that is something that I thinkis missed so often.
(29:58):
But I think that it's such agood point, which is don't be
scared to have the conversations, even if someone's going
through something really tough.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, so this is a perfect example, right, because
we talked about the 3 am moments.
So someone who is in DC, who'slost their job, who's having to
face this hardship, that istheir 3am moment, right, it has
nothing to do with real estate.
And there is a way to figure outhow to be a value to that
person where they are today byhaving conversations with others
(30:28):
and starting to gather andamass the contact information of
any five starstar professionalsthat are bringing value right
now to these types of people, sothat you can come armed with
resources.
Now one of my best friend'shusband has worked in government
for the Democratic Party.
He was the lead advance man forObama for eight years.
(30:50):
So they're now having torelocate right, so they're
having to move, and so in aconversation with them, for
example, I might find out ifthey can connect me with anybody
who's been a resource to themand who's helping them.
And maybe, when I find outwhere they're moving, if they
decide to buy when they relocateto another city or state, maybe
I can get connected with thatagent that they're going to
(31:13):
utilize.
Or perhaps I can go on amission to find a realtor to
refer them wherever they aremoving to.
I mean, there's so many ways tothink about how the ripple
effect if someone's goingthrough something and I can
relate to that pain or I want tobe a value to them in this hard
time what does that mean?
It means I need to be armedwith resources that I can say
(31:34):
here's this resource, thisresource.
This has nothing to do with me,but in the process I'm showing
up, I'm engaging, I'm being myauthentic self, I'm caring and
I'm also connecting with otherservice providers that have the
same heart to serve the samepopulation, and we're now
developing a collective resourcefor people going through this
(31:57):
very specific thing so that cantranslate in our life and
business.
And it's seasonal.
So we talked before we wererecording about how a lot of
realtors and lenders are feelingvery burned out right now, and
I think that we need to embracethe fact that we've all
experienced life in our ownunique way.
(32:17):
We've navigated stages of life,life experiences that have made
us right now uniquely equippedto be of value to others and
serve in a way that we didn'thave the capacity to do 10 years
ago, before we've lived allthis life, and so it's really
just getting to the heart ofthat, like, where do you want to
show up with sincerity, to beable to serve, to be a value?
(32:40):
And I know I'm like beating adead horse, but if we can get to
the bottom of who are yourpeople, what are they going
through and what does it meanfor me to show up?
And then, who do I need to befriends with, like?
Who do I need to partner withto connect them to so that they
have every resource they need tonavigate this particular
transition in their life?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
It's really as simple as that and I think, like so
many agents are looking for theshortcut or the hack or the
automation or the like.
Now we have AI, obviously, andeveryone is looking for, looking
for.
How do I make this easier?
It's very simple.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I know my conversion rates, I know my KPIs, meaning,
on average, if I have 10 actualconversations per week, I
typically get two referrals perweek, not necessarily from those
conversations, but that's justan example of a metric, a
conversion ratio I want to have.
Let's say, I want example of ametric, a conversion ratio I
want to have.
Let's say, I want to be closingfour transactions a month
consistently.
(33:40):
Well, on average, 50% of myleads will actually turn into a
conversation and meaning, likeif you say I gave your name to
someone at my company who wantsto, was thinking about buying an
investment property, that maynever lead to a conversation,
but I'm still going to countthat because it means somebody's
talking about me and thinkingof me in this vein.
Or if somebody says to me hey,I want to pick your brain, I'm
(34:01):
thinking about X, y, z, you know, next summer, I'm going to
count that, even though it maybeisn't going anywhere today.
So we track how many leads andif, on average, some people have
much better conversion ratios,but if, on average, 50% of those
leads turn to conversations and50% of the conversations turn
to closings, then if I want tohave four closings a month
consistently, I want to haveeight meetings, conversations,
(34:23):
appointments, whatever and thatmeans 16 leads a month.
So divide that by four weeks,it's an average of four leads a
week for four closings a month.
So it kind of works that wayacross the board.
As a lender, when I wanted tobe closing 15 transactions a
month, I wanted to be generating15 new leads a week, and I did
that through massive amounts ofconversation.
And then from there we take itone step further and say, okay,
(34:44):
well, if I don't have the timefor that many conversations in a
week like, let's say, it's 50conversations a week to get to
how many leads I want per weekwell then, maybe I can figure
out a way to create some kind ofweekly networking group or
mastermind group with otherbusiness owners where I'm in
front of 15 people every Tuesdayand 15 people every Thursday,
so that's 30 people.
(35:05):
Then I just need to have 20more conversations.
Now I know I'm rattling off alot here, but this is the
difference between a successfulbusiness owner and someone who's
floundering right now is theycan rattle off their recipe for
success, their formula, and whenit comes to what?
Well, how do you stay committedto that?
Well, I have a schedule and Isprint three to four hours a day
(35:28):
, three days a week, and Iprotect that time, like my life
depends on it.
Because it does, because mybusiness depends on it.
And if I don't have anybusiness, my life is feeling
quite stressful.
And if I say that's my problem,I want to solve that's my pain
point, but I'm unwilling todevelop a repeatable recipe for
success and I'm unwilling toprotect my time, then I can't be
(35:49):
complaining about my outcome.
So it's not about being aworkaholic, it's not about
logging a million hours.
It's about cutting thedistractions.
Eliminate anything that'ssucking the life out of you or
at least batch it into windowsof time so it doesn't interfere
with your ability to show up asyour best self, your brightest
light, finding ways to connectin conversation and being a
(36:09):
resource to people and all ofthe relationships I already have
.
If I love them, I'm going to beasking them to introduce me to
the service providers they loveand refer in other industries.
Because if I love this personand they love that person,
chances are they run theirbusiness in a similar way.
And I want to be constantlyadding to my old school Rolodex,
(36:29):
like I want to be constantlybuilding my tribe of local
service providers that I canrefer to, and then I'm just
constantly promoting otherpeople's businesses.
I'm not promoting myself, I'mjust always spotlighting other
people, connecting them to mycommunity, and I just become the
hub of the network.
So you know, in terms of thesystem and the schedule I don't
(36:52):
know how AI plays into that, butI'm sure there's a way.
It just comes down to onesimple thing If you took a job
working for somebody else rightnow, chances are you're doing it
because you want steady incomeand you're not getting it from
your current reality.
And so my question then becomeswhat is the expectation of the
person that hires you?
(37:13):
That there's a business owneror a manager there who has a
plan for profitability, thatthey know what they need you to
do to help make the businessprofitable.
And as long as you show up towork on time and do what's
expected of you, you're going toget paid in exchange for it.
And then I ask people how doyou run your business?
What time do you do the thingsyou say you're going to do, and
(37:33):
on what days of the week?
And then what gets in the way?
Right, if we can commit toshowing up to work on time and
doing what's expected of us, wewill have predictable growth in
our business.
And the way to do that with joyand ease is to stop settling,
pluck the weeds, really evaluatethe relationships in your life
(37:55):
that bring you energy and thenget very intentional on what it
means to that person in thisstage of life they're in.
Who can you enlist to bring andbe a value to them?
And that is the way in which wecan just lighten up, literally
like lighten up, stop stressing,stop worrying, have more fun,
turn the light on from within,share the light with others and
(38:16):
create a wildfire of unexpectedopportunities.
They're out there, I know,because there's people doing it.
It's the only differencebetween us and anyone in them is
that they've decided to thrive.
They're willing to find a wayin this market.
They're not waiting for themarket to change for them to
thrive.
They're not there, they don'thave time for that.
They're just out there creatingvalue and that's it.
It's like it's just lots ofconversations and lots of value
(38:38):
in specific windows of time thatyou protect, like your life
depends on it.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I think we're going to end there.
That was perfect.
It's like keep the light onbaby.
That's what it's all about.
We are open for business.
We are keeping the light on.
So, erin, if people want tofind you or connect, where's the
best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, so I have a free five-step guide to more
referrals that kind of walkspeople through the step-by-step
of just reevaluating your goalsand your people right, the
flowers you want to plant in thegarden and see multiply, and
then strategically how to be avalue to them so that your
business grows.
And you can find that atpursuingfreedomcom or you can
reach out to me on Instagram atpursuingfreedomofficial, dm me.
(39:22):
I love hearing from people likewe're here having this
conversation and putting it outto the ether and hopefully, if
somebody's listening, if youtook one takeaway that was a
value.
Please DM Lindsay or DM me sowe get.
We get motivated to keep going.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It is so fun to get that feedback where people
follow you and you're like wheredid you find me?
They're like I listened to youon a podcast.
I'm like that's yeah, all right.
Well, thank you so much andI'll definitely link both of
those and everything youmentioned in the show notes.
But thank you again for jumpingon.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, lindsay.
Hey friends, you are in for a treat.
Today I am chatting with ErinBradley, host of the Pursuing
Freedom podcast.
Definitely check it out.
Bestselling, author, speaker,coach and, seriously, just one
of those people who lights up aroom, any room that she enters.
She's on a mission to help realestate professionals build a
life that they don't need avacation from which, obviously,
(00:22):
we're all about around here, wetalk about everything from the
moment where she had a creditcard declined at a coffee shop
to redefining success on yourown terms.
Erin's story is real.
It's full of truth bombs thatwe all need right now,
especially if you're feelingburned out, stuck or like you're
paddling upstream.
If you've been craving more joy, more ease and more alignment
(00:45):
in your business, you are goingto love this conversation.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hey Erin, oh, hey girl, hi Lindsay.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
All right.
So for those of you who do notknow the incredible Erin Bradley
, can you tell us who you areand what you do?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Sure, so my name is Erin and I am the founder of an
organization called PursuingFreedom, which started with a
book that I published by thesame title in 2016, and then
started a podcast by the sametitle so original in 2018.
And it's led over the years toa lot of speaking and coaching,
and just really connecting withfreedom seekers is what I like
(01:29):
to refer to.
And I say this because when Iwent 100% commission in the real
estate space in 2007, perfecttiming I was on the mortgage
side, yeah, but I had nofinancial safety net, no
confidence, no systems, no gameplan and, honestly, all the
training I was given just feltreally dreadful and out of
(01:51):
alignment with who I am, and soI promptly fell flat on my face
and within a year of going 100%commission it was the summer of
2008, I had to ride my bike to aclient meeting because I didn't
have enough money for gas.
I was maxed out on all mycredit cards and got there early
to make sure the sweat driesoff before I meet the client,
and unfortunately, he got thereearly too and introduced himself
(02:11):
to me at the counter as mycredit card was being declined
for a cup of coffee.
So the worst part is I thoughtthat was the card that would
work, but I didn't know what todo because if another card was
declined, he would know the gigis up.
So I just lied and was likethat's so weird, I'm going to
have to call the bank Anyhow.
He bought my coffee and I wasmortified and I just remember
feeling like a failure andasking my dad for some advice
(02:34):
and he basically said look, ifyou think you're going to be
good at this, do whatever ittakes.
And so I opened another creditcard.
I bought internet leads,whatever that means in 2008.
And I hired a coach and youknow a lot of people say they
can't afford to hire a coach.
And I was at a point where Icouldn't afford not to because
what I was doing wasn't working.
And you know a lot of peoplethink, oh man, what was it like
(02:56):
coming into the industry as theindustry was crashing all around
you and I was like, well, thegood thing is I had nowhere to
go but up.
You know my only perspectivewas to climb.
And so I hired the coach and outof desperation, I just said
tell me what to do and I'll doit.
And I don't disagree with thisapproach that you need to have a
game plan.
(03:16):
However, even with all theaction, even with getting
results and starting to closedeals and being able to pay my
bills, there was still somethingmissing I was.
I never felt like I trulybelonged in this industry.
I always felt like a bit of analien, and it wasn't until four
years in, in 2011, that somebodygave me the book the Go-Giver.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And I read it.
Oh, it's one of my favorites.
Yes, it's such a good book.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And if the listeners haven't read it, you have to
read it.
It was a complete paradigmshift for me and everything
clicked, because what I realizedis that, up until the point of
reading the Go-Giver where theconcept is that the goal is to
give value above and beyond whatyou get paid to do, or be a
value beyond even the servicethat you provide, everything I
had been doing to date wasreally push marketing about me
(04:05):
and how I could solve my problemby making more calls, writing
more notes, seeing more peopleand get more leads, get more
deals, get the money to solve myproblem, to pay my bills.
And so, even when I wasexecuting with consistency,
there was resistance in it, likeI would.
I knew what I was supposed todo.
I was sitting in a state ofinsecurity and fear and failure
(04:27):
and I had the action plan and ifI muscle through the activity,
I'd even get results.
But something wasn't quiteright, like it wasn't enjoyable.
So when I read the Go-Giver, Iwas like, oh, this makes way
more sense.
I've been a go-getter andthat's not really who I am, but
I can develop a process where Ican systematically be a value to
(04:48):
my clients even when they don'tneed my services, which
immediately it made all the fearevaporate, like my insecurity
was replaced with curiosity howcan I be a value to you today,
even if you don't need myservices?
So I was able to becomeunleashed in more communication
with people I care about andfinding ways to be a resource,
(05:08):
and my business blew up.
I mean it more than doubled.
I went from averaging like 30transactions a year to doing
nearly 80, which sounds like agreat problem to have.
I was earning more than I everanticipated, but I was pregnant
with my second child and I wasdrowning.
I was working 24 seven,tethered to my phone.
My daughter was born at the endof 2012.
And I remember asking advice ofsome of my colleagues.
(05:32):
If I ended the year almost $20million in volume, there were
other men and women doing $30million in volume.
Kids were a little older thanmine and I asked them for advice
and they all admitted thatafter they put their kids to bed
, they work until 10, 11, 12o'clock at night and they've
never taken a vacation withoutbeing tethered to their phone.
And I just remember thinkingthis isn't what I signed up for
(05:53):
either Like I'm finally makingmoney, but at the expense of my
present moments with my kids, myfamily, my friends.
I was becoming a shell ofmyself.
I was pretending I was finewhen I wasn't, and I was praying
for it to slow down so I couldcome up for a breath of air.
And when this happens,inevitably your prayers come
true.
The pipeline dries up and youdon't feel relaxed, you panic,
(06:16):
and so I just remember thinkingI don't feel free having my
credit card decline for a $2 cupof coffee, and I don't feel
like I have freedom andflexibility when I'm simply a
slave to my business to sustainthis quote, unquote success that
I've built.
And so I almost quit thebusiness, but luckily I didn't.
I found more mentors and coachesand communities and I started
(06:38):
to design my business to fueland finance my life, and as I
did, I became obsessed withteaching real estate agents what
I was doing, and so it just ledto a lot of workshops and
conferences where I would teachthe strategy that worked to be
yourself, increase yourreferrals and have more fun
growing your business.
And I found I wasn't alone, likethere's other people out there
that don't want to fit the moldof outdated salesy tactics and
(07:04):
and want to be themselves, beauthentic, but they also crave
financial stability andsignificance, and you can have
both.
It doesn't have to be one orthe other.
And if we're going to beself-employed and we know this
is not the easy route if you'renot willing to design it to give
you the time freedom that youcrave and the ability to be
present with your loved ones andto take those vacations, then
what's the point?
(07:24):
Go work for somebody else who'sgoing to give you permission to
be off for two weeks out of theyear, and it's really kind of
wild that this isn't talkedabout more.
In our industry.
The burnout level is at anall-time high, even experienced
and again external success.
When I say the word successful,like even experienced realtors
and lenders who are closingdeals right now can admit
(07:44):
they're kind of bored, they're alittle burned out and there is
a better way.
So that's my passion.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I love it and I 100% agree with everything that you
said.
I am curious to get yourthoughts on why do you feel like
the real estate industry is soobsessed with being a go-getter?
Why are they so obsessed withthis mentality of just like you
have, it's always more, more,more From your perspective?
(08:13):
Why is there that obsession?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, I have two parts to answer this question.
Number one why is there ago-getter energy?
It's fear-based.
So, thinking back to when youfirst took the leap of faith,
you go a hundred percentcommission, you forego the
steady paycheck and the securityof that.
The very first thing you'regoing to feel is fear and
(08:37):
uncertainty.
And so out of that, in thatspace, we seek guidance, and
those who are training ushaven't necessarily dissolved
their own fears that have beendeeply embedded in them since
day one.
I think that we develop thesethoughts, these fears become
beliefs, become behaviors thatbecome habits, then become our
(09:00):
excuses for why we say, well, Ihave to, I need to, I just have
to, it's real quick, honey, Ijust have to take.
It's real quick, honey, I justhave to take that call.
And it's like says who you arethe boss.
Right, you became self-employedfor a reason.
So in the beginning we don'tknow what we're capable of.
And so when the businessinevitably picks up which it
will, as long as you don't quitand as long as you're willing to
(09:20):
seek guidance and start takingsome action, you're going to
inevitably start having somebusiness going on, and at that
point you feel so lucky that youconvince yourself.
It's totally fine to justbecome completely out of
alignment to serve the clients,right?
I mean, we're servant-heartedpeople and we're willing to
compromise our own valuessometimes to make sure we don't
(09:42):
let others down.
But the other part to thequestion that I want to address
is when you say why more, more,more?
I actually don't think there'sanything wrong with the concept
of more, more, more, because Ibelieve that as human beings,
we're on this planet to grow andexpand and learn and improve,
and the reason I feel that way,interestingly enough, is I read
(10:03):
this book called the Gap and theGain by Benjamin Hardy.
Have you read that?
Yes, yep.
So for the listeners, the Gapand the Gain it's really good.
But he talks about the threat ofthe more, more, more right, in
the sense that the idea behindthe Gap and the Gain is that,
most specifically Americans, inour society, it's like you set a
goal, you achieve it, and thenit's quickly replaced by a new
(10:26):
desire.
And now the goalpost has movedand you're back in a state of
unfulfillment or not enough, orangst or stress about not being
there yet.
And then you get there and youcelebrate for a minute, and so
you're constantly in the gapbetween where you are and where
you want to be next, rather thanthe gain, which is the distance
from where you are and whereyou want to be next, rather than
the gain, which is the distancefrom where you are to where you
(10:46):
started.
And we've always so like.
We talk about this a lot in mycoaching community how, if you
picture your life as anascension, you're climbing a
mountain and you're alwaysstriving for whatever is next,
whatever feels exciting to youOn that climb.
There's valleys along the way,but even in that valley, you may
feel stuck, you may be in aslump, it may feel like the
depths of despair or darkness,and it can come for all kinds of
(11:10):
reasons, right, but you'restill at a higher elevation than
you were when you started, andso the gap in the game concept
is to remember how far you'vecome.
However, I think that there'sbeauty in the more more.
More because we can be awitness to how many times in our
lives we've achieved something,and it's quickly replaced by
that new desire, and I thinkthat's what keeps life
(11:31):
interesting.
I think the joy is in theacknowledgement that so much of
the unfolding that's happeningall the time is actually
relatively unscripted by us andif we could lighten up and have
more fun in the process ofengaging with our community,
seeking things that interest us,being willing to let go of the
(11:52):
things that don't interest usanymore.
Just because we used to like itdoesn't mean we still do Like.
That's part of the humanexperience.
It's okay to evolve, it's okayto release the vine and to
graduate from things that nolonger serve you.
As you're on this journey ofexploration and, I believe, like
upward mobility, I mean, I hopeI'm always seeking and growing
and learning and expanding.
(12:12):
I hope I never get to a placewhere I get to complacency
because I think there's fun init as long as it's not
accompanied by the strife andthe striving and the
compromising of your sanity toget to it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, I think like it comes down to alignment and
integrity with what you want andreally like your goals.
And so I think you kind of saidit, which is we have to define
our definition of success, andthat's what we're working for
definition of success and that'swhat we're working for.
(12:47):
So, if more, more, more is inthe quest of what you define as
success or your end goal, it'snot defined by somebody else,
and I think so often we're inthis in real estate, we're
defining our success by externalmetrics that we didn't choose
our for ourselves.
We, like the industry, chosethem for us, whether it's I need
to be the top producer at mybrokerage or I need to have 25
team members, or whatever it is.
(13:10):
There's this enough is notenough, and I think that more,
more, more can be absolutely inalignment as long as you're
intentionally choosing that.
And I also think the flip sideis there is there's like
satisfaction or success inhaving enough as well, depending
on what season of life you'rein and what your goals are and
(13:30):
what your success metrics are.
So I love your explanation Ithink it was.
It's it's really nuanced, but Ithink it comes down to what's
in alignment with you and whatdo you want and what's joyful
for you and what's enjoyable foryou, and what's enjoyable for
you and what's authentic for you.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Well, also, it's interesting because when we talk
about the nuance of more, more,more right, and the connotation
and like the negativeconnotation connecting it to
some external metric like moremoney.
But what I'm saying is more,more more is like more joy, more
peace, more connection, morefun.
More more is like more joy,more peace, more connection,
more fun, more adventure.
And funny enough in ourindustry, when I ask if I'm in a
(14:10):
room full of real estateprofessionals, ask anyone to
raise their hand.
Who's ever seen their businesspop when they go on vacation or
they intend to go on vacation orattend right?
And everybody's like hands inthe air and it's so annoying,
right, we're like we're going totake some time off and then the
phone rings and I reallybelieve deep down in my soul
that that's because there's aspecial energy, that's vacation
(14:32):
energy.
That when you're excited, whenyou're having fun, when you're
not thinking about work at all,you're just being your true,
authentic self, your heart andsoul.
All of a sudden it's like theuniversal lines to match you to
people that suddenly show up inyour path needing your support.
And we separate ourselves fromthat when we put on the work hat
and we start thinking like whatcould I do today?
(14:54):
What should I do today to solvemy problem?
This void in my bank account, mypipelines dried up, the rates,
the inventory, the market, allthe world, the economy, the
politics it's All that stuff isjust pushing on the dimmer
switch of the light within us.
But there is a light within usand when it's on, when we can
activate vacation energy, it'slike turning on the lighthouse
(15:16):
in the storm and the ships startcoming to port.
So I'm more interested inhelping real estate
professionals figure out what itmeans to them at this stage, at
this juncture.
What does more joy look likefor you.
What is more connection, moreauthenticity, more love, more
impact, more fun look like foryou?
And how do we cultivatevacation energy on a daily basis
(15:37):
so it doesn't have to be aseparation of our soul from our
business, and it's incrediblehow it leads to growth in
business.
And it's a little bit of aninside out approach, right, a
different frequency to the samedestination, which is abundance.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yes, you're right, it's changing the frequency
instead of the fear of what'sgoing on around you and yes,
there is a lot going on rightnow.
It's really just amping thatattraction energy.
So I'm with you on that.
There's a lot of agents whothey are in the doom scrolling
(16:18):
anti-vacation energy spiralright now.
What do you have, like?
What advice do you have forthem?
What is like one or two thingsyou feel like they can do to
kind of get moving in the rightdirection.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, first things first.
Whether people agree with it ornot, I don't.
I don't watch the news, I don'tspiral down on things I can't
control that are going to sap meof my energy.
My energy is everything andprotecting it is my number one
priority, because the purpose oflife is to enjoy each day and
to live it to the fullest thatwe possibly can in the
(16:54):
environment that we're in.
What does it mean for me tohave the most impact today?
And so something that a mentorsaid to me in a workshop in 2011
, a million years ago, but Iremember it so much.
She said whenever I'm in a funk, she said all morning, while I
go through my morning routine,while I shower, get ready, I
just repeat to myself I intendto be of value to every person I
(17:17):
meet today.
I intend to be of value toevery person I meet today.
I intend to be a value to everyperson I meet today.
And as I do that, I start toshift from a negative state of
emotion and fear and anxiety andworry and lack of control to a
state of curiosity andcontentment and hope and purpose
.
Right, and then I have to askmyself well, who can I be a
value to today if I'm nottalking to anybody because I'm
stuck here in my own funk?
So I've got to awaken to thecuriosity to find someone to
(17:42):
serve today, and that could beas simple as being nicer out in
the world when I'm buying a cupof coffee, or I'm at the grocery
store, or slowing down when I'mon a walk and I bump into a
neighbor who's walking their dogand not need to have my AirPods
in and fly past them in a hurryto get to nowhere, right?
So what does it look like to bea value to every person you
meet today?
And then the other thing I'llsay the most powerful thing that
(18:05):
I can ever encourage anyone todo when they're feeling lonely
is to know that you're not aloneand to get in the room with
people that are energizers.
So ask yourself where are youspending time?
Consuming information or havingconversations, and are those
things energizing you ordraining you further?
So seek out the room withpeople that remind you of your
(18:28):
future, because there are a lotof people right now in this
world, in my community, people Imeet on my podcast, that are
thriving, that are having theirbest year ever, and the one
common denominator is they hangaround people, whether it's
masterminds, communities,mentors that people are seeking
ways to be of value, seekingways to be of impact, and their
(18:49):
business is growing as abyproduct.
So we can't wait for theexternal circumstances to change
to give ourselves permission tolet our light shine again.
And if the light isextinguished again, hang around
somebody that can ignite thatflame or ignite that spark
within you, and then go sharethat spark with somebody else,
because your light will shinebrighter the more people you
help and serve.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I love that and that goes back to the go.
Giver.
It's all about that givinggenerous energy.
I love that and that goes backto the go.
(19:35):
Very simple.
It's actually not that hard toshow up with a generous spirit
every single day and it ispretty magical.
Magic happens, you attractthose opportunities, you attract
those people and it really doesjust snowball from there.
So that was really amazingadvice.
So, in terms of creating abusiness that you want to run
(20:01):
towards, which you that is yourterm and I love it so you have a
strategy for real estate agentsto create a business that they
actually want to like.
They're so excited and like sorevved up to go run towards and
build.
So can you dive into more ofthat strategy and what you
recommend?
Because I think that so oftenwe're like backwards looking and
(20:24):
I love this idea of likeforward looking.
So take the mic, let's go.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah Well, there's no shortage of sales training out
there.
That gives you the action plan,and if you're in a state where
you're on the negative side ofthe emotional spectrum or
energetic spectrum and you'relooking at your year to date,
you're looking at your volume,your pipeline, your bank account
, all the things, and it'sbringing you down right.
(20:52):
In my opinion, logging morehours, checking more boxes,
taking more action isn't theantidote, so the first thing to
do is just be okay with that'swhere you are and then do some
practices to help move yourselfalong the emotional scale, which
can look like making a list ofall the people you've met in the
(21:12):
last 12 months that have had apositive impact on your life
that you didn't conjure up andhunt down and bring into your
existence.
The stars align, the pathscross, like Lindsay and I, you
know, we didn't know each othera year ago and now we've become
friends through an introduction.
But I didn't make that happen,you didn't make that happen.
It's just, it's an evolution,and all the time we can be a
witness to how much beauty inour life is unscripted and how
(21:35):
many good things have happened,and it's a reminder that, as I
look ahead to the future.
I haven't even met half thepeople that are going to show up
on my path on the journeytowards my new desire, right,
whatever that is for me at thistime in my life.
And the other thing is that Ihear a lot of people in the
business specifically seasoned,you know, experienced realtors
and lenders that say things likeI just have to, I just need to,
(21:57):
I just have to get back to thebasics.
I got to get back to thefundamentals.
I just need to make some morefun goals.
I know what I need to do andI'm like I know you know what
you need to do.
But the fact is, everything youjust said, right there was so
laden with resistance and dreadand heaviness that even if you
were to execute with 100%consistency which chances are
(22:18):
you're not, because it feelslike a pain chances are you're
not executing.
But even if you were executingwith 100% consistency, it's
falling flat because you're noteven enjoying the process.
You're just going through themotions because you've got a
problem to solve.
So what I like to do is kind ofreverse engineer this and say
all right, so let's imagineLindsay's in my database.
She's a client that I helped in2021.
(22:40):
I haven't talked to her since.
I'm feeling really bad aboutthat.
But I really like Lindsay and Ieven think to myself I'm going
to call Lindsay, she's one of myfavorite people.
And then the chatter starts toactivate in my mind.
But Lindsay doesn't need to buya house right now or sell a
house, because she's got a rateof 3%.
And all the chatter startshappening and I always say, yeah
, you're right, that's a youproblem, that's 100% a you
(23:04):
problem.
And you're so focused on theyou problem, which is the
byproduct of whatever you'vebeen doing or not been doing the
last 60 to 90 days.
And one thing I know for sure ifLindsay woke up at three
o'clock in the morning lastnight and she couldn't fall back
asleep, I know with 100%certainty what was keeping her
up at night was not my pipeline,it was not my volume, it was
(23:28):
not my real estate business andthere was something keeping you
up.
So my job is to take my workhat off.
Was something keeping you up?
So my job is to take my workhat off, take the agenda out of
it Like if I needed nothing.
Tap into that.
How could I be a value?
How would I want to feel today?
How would I want to show up inthe world and who could I be a
value to?
(23:49):
And if Lindsay's a person Ireally enjoyed getting to know
and I haven't spoken to her inyears or months or whatever, and
I'm feeling really bad aboutthat and I don't know what to
talk about, because I don'tthink she wants to talk about
real estate, you're right.
Okay.
So just exactly scratch thatall together and get curious
about what is the 3 am moment.
The 3 am moment is whateverLindsay is working on right now,
(24:10):
whatever she's excited about,whatever she's worried about.
That's what she cares about.
My job is only to show up there.
There's a really great quotethat said it's when you step
back from the single brushstrokethat you can see the entire
painting.
So I always think to myself thereal estate transaction is just
one brushstroke in the painting.
Once we've gotten to theclosing table, until they need
(24:32):
my services again, my job is toget to the bottom of the
brushstroke of the paintingyou're on right now.
They need my services again.
My job is to get to the bottomof the brushstroke of the
painting you're on right now.
And when we really drill downfrom a strategic perspective
let's say, lindsay.
When I helped her buy a housein 2021, was single or married
or engaged or whatever datingbut she wasn't married yet.
Now it's 2025.
She's married, she has a 14month old baby, she works full
(24:55):
time.
She's got a spouse.
Like chances are, the 3ammoment for Lindsay today is
radically different than when Imet her and helped her buy a
house a couple of years ago.
So all I need to do is show upfor you where you are today, not
where I need you, and in thatway I can have an impact from my
heart to your heart and that'sgoing to ripple out to the
(25:18):
conversations at the dinnertable and at the office or on
the sidelines, like I'm tryingto get to the heart of the
matter.
And when I stop worrying aboutmy bank account, my pipeline, my
issues, it becomes much moreeasy to engage from a place of
curiosity and contribution.
And what I've noticed is thatwhen you do this, when you can
(25:39):
like clean, I always say if youthink about your database, but
picture it like a garden inspringtime, and when you come
into your garden in springtime,it's filled with weeds.
There's stuff that pops upevery year that you might like.
Maybe it's just been theresince you moved in.
There's stuff that you plantevery year and there's stuff
that you've never even reallyevaluated.
If you like it or not.
It's just there and it's justwhat you've accepted.
(26:02):
Now think about your database.
Like that garden and go to thedatabase and just pluck the
weeds.
You don't have to eliminatethem from your life or even your
CRM, but like, just pluck theweeds, pluck the things that
feel like a maybe and thenidentify the relationships that
are that hell yes, energy.
Like I freaking love Lindsay.
(26:23):
Every time I talk to Lindsay I'mhappy, I'm energized, all the
things, and with no agenda, onlycuriosity.
Start to re-engage with thosepeople from a place of service,
get curious, find ways to be aresource to them, and you will
be shocked by how quickly youstart to see your business
compound and those types ofrelationships you really enjoy
(26:44):
today start to multiply.
So we start to have a littlemore fun with the process of
communicating with people.
We care about checking in withhow they're doing, finding ways
to connect them to serviceproviders or just show them we
love them and appreciate themwith a handwritten note or a
gift or something, and within 60to 90 days you see your
(27:06):
referrals, seemingly out of theblue, not from Lindsay, because
I remember I didn't call Lindsaybecause I was hoping to get
something out of it.
I just called her because Icare about her.
All of a sudden, though out ofthe blue, I'm getting phone
calls and DMs and text messagesand bumping into people that are
asking me about real estate.
And it's all because we're doingthe work to turn the light on
from within.
We're sharing that light withpeople we genuinely care about
(27:28):
and we're having faith in theunscripted that we haven't even
met half the people that aregoing to help us get from where
we are to where we're trying togo.
It feels a lot more fun, it's alot lighter and it's just the
difference between paddlingupstream, doing all the
obligation stuff that the salestrainer told you you should do
to solve your problem.
It all feels like upstreamenergy or just get on the raft.
Let's get on the raft and godownstream, get in the flow,
(27:51):
have some fun, but it's likeeveryone I know that's having
their actual best year ever inreal estate or mortgage.
Right now, the one thing thatthey're doing is they're hanging
around people that believethere's opportunity and they're
having tons of conversations,and the only way to get into
conversation is to get out ofour head and stop thinking.
This conversation is going toserve me yes.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I am so with you on this.
The conversation piece is socrucial.
So my brokerage is inWashington DC and there are
massive layoffs, as you know,with the federal government or
maybe you don't because youdon't listen to the news.
We're lucky.
But the agents that I know thatare doing really well right now
.
They aren't scared to engagethose people who are going
(28:33):
through that hard lifetransition.
And a lot of people I talk tothey're like well, I don't want
to be an ambulance chaser andI'm like you're not calling
those people to ask them do theywant to sell their house?
You're calling to check on thembecause you have a good
relationship with them.
Are you okay?
Like, what's your next move?
Do you need an introduction tosomebody for like, a new job?
(28:53):
Like, how are you guys doing?
Do you need me to send you?
Do you need me to make youdinner?
Like I mean, it's thosepersonal relationships where you
don't have to be scared whenyou come from it from a
generosity lens.
It's like we're not ambulancechasing and I think so much of
the advice is just make yourcalls, ask for referrals.
But that's not what it's about.
(29:15):
It's exactly what you're saying, which is let's be of service
to people.
Let's build real relationships.
Let's have real connections,the heart to heart is what you
said and I agree.
It's like that heart to heartconnection is it's human, it's
like we're we're connecting on ahuman level, it's not a
business level, and if you canconnect on that human level,
first the business comes.
You don't have to worry aboutit, and you and I both built
(29:37):
very robust referral basedbusinesses and that's where it
comes from is it's that humanconnection of I care about you
as a person and they know thatyou're going to care about
whoever you bring into theirlife, like whoever they
introduced to you to.
They know you're going to careabout them just as much, and
that is something that I thinkis missed so often.
(29:58):
But I think that it's such agood point, which is don't be
scared to have the conversations, even if someone's going
through something really tough.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, so this is a perfect example, right, because
we talked about the 3 am moments.
So someone who is in DC, who'slost their job, who's having to
face this hardship, that istheir 3am moment, right, it has
nothing to do with real estate.
And there is a way to figure outhow to be a value to that
person where they are today byhaving conversations with others
(30:28):
and starting to gather andamass the contact information of
any five starstar professionalsthat are bringing value right
now to these types of people, sothat you can come armed with
resources.
Now one of my best friend'shusband has worked in government
for the Democratic Party.
He was the lead advance man forObama for eight years.
(30:50):
So they're now having torelocate right, so they're
having to move, and so in aconversation with them, for
example, I might find out ifthey can connect me with anybody
who's been a resource to themand who's helping them.
And maybe, when I find outwhere they're moving, if they
decide to buy when they relocateto another city or state, maybe
I can get connected with thatagent that they're going to
(31:13):
utilize.
Or perhaps I can go on amission to find a realtor to
refer them wherever they aremoving to.
I mean, there's so many ways tothink about how the ripple
effect if someone's goingthrough something and I can
relate to that pain or I want tobe a value to them in this hard
time what does that mean?
It means I need to be armedwith resources that I can say
(31:34):
here's this resource, thisresource.
This has nothing to do with me,but in the process I'm showing
up, I'm engaging, I'm being myauthentic self, I'm caring and
I'm also connecting with otherservice providers that have the
same heart to serve the samepopulation, and we're now
developing a collective resourcefor people going through this
(31:57):
very specific thing so that cantranslate in our life and
business.
And it's seasonal.
So we talked before we wererecording about how a lot of
realtors and lenders are feelingvery burned out right now, and
I think that we need to embracethe fact that we've all
experienced life in our ownunique way.
(32:17):
We've navigated stages of life,life experiences that have made
us right now uniquely equippedto be of value to others and
serve in a way that we didn'thave the capacity to do 10 years
ago, before we've lived allthis life, and so it's really
just getting to the heart ofthat, like, where do you want to
show up with sincerity, to beable to serve, to be a value?
(32:40):
And I know I'm like beating adead horse, but if we can get to
the bottom of who are yourpeople, what are they going
through and what does it meanfor me to show up?
And then, who do I need to befriends with, like?
Who do I need to partner withto connect them to so that they
have every resource they need tonavigate this particular
transition in their life?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
It's really as simple as that and I think, like so
many agents are looking for theshortcut or the hack or the
automation or the like.
Now we have AI, obviously, andeveryone is looking for, looking
for.
How do I make this easier?
It's very simple.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I know my conversion rates, I know my KPIs, meaning,
on average, if I have 10 actualconversations per week, I
typically get two referrals perweek, not necessarily from those
conversations, but that's justan example of a metric, a
conversion ratio I want to have.
Let's say, I want example of ametric, a conversion ratio I
want to have.
Let's say, I want to be closingfour transactions a month
consistently.
(33:40):
Well, on average, 50% of myleads will actually turn into a
conversation and meaning, likeif you say I gave your name to
someone at my company who wantsto, was thinking about buying an
investment property, that maynever lead to a conversation,
but I'm still going to countthat because it means somebody's
talking about me and thinkingof me in this vein.
Or if somebody says to me hey,I want to pick your brain, I'm
(34:01):
thinking about X, y, z, you know, next summer, I'm going to
count that, even though it maybeisn't going anywhere today.
So we track how many leads andif, on average, some people have
much better conversion ratios,but if, on average, 50% of those
leads turn to conversations and50% of the conversations turn
to closings, then if I want tohave four closings a month
consistently, I want to haveeight meetings, conversations,
(34:23):
appointments, whatever and thatmeans 16 leads a month.
So divide that by four weeks,it's an average of four leads a
week for four closings a month.
So it kind of works that wayacross the board.
As a lender, when I wanted tobe closing 15 transactions a
month, I wanted to be generating15 new leads a week, and I did
that through massive amounts ofconversation.
And then from there we take itone step further and say, okay,
(34:44):
well, if I don't have the timefor that many conversations in a
week like, let's say, it's 50conversations a week to get to
how many leads I want per weekwell then, maybe I can figure
out a way to create some kind ofweekly networking group or
mastermind group with otherbusiness owners where I'm in
front of 15 people every Tuesdayand 15 people every Thursday,
so that's 30 people.
(35:05):
Then I just need to have 20more conversations.
Now I know I'm rattling off alot here, but this is the
difference between a successfulbusiness owner and someone who's
floundering right now is theycan rattle off their recipe for
success, their formula, and whenit comes to what?
Well, how do you stay committedto that?
Well, I have a schedule and Isprint three to four hours a day
(35:28):
, three days a week, and Iprotect that time, like my life
depends on it.
Because it does, because mybusiness depends on it.
And if I don't have anybusiness, my life is feeling
quite stressful.
And if I say that's my problem,I want to solve that's my pain
point, but I'm unwilling todevelop a repeatable recipe for
success and I'm unwilling toprotect my time, then I can't be
(35:49):
complaining about my outcome.
So it's not about being aworkaholic, it's not about
logging a million hours.
It's about cutting thedistractions.
Eliminate anything that'ssucking the life out of you or
at least batch it into windowsof time so it doesn't interfere
with your ability to show up asyour best self, your brightest
light, finding ways to connectin conversation and being a
(36:09):
resource to people and all ofthe relationships I already have
.
If I love them, I'm going to beasking them to introduce me to
the service providers they loveand refer in other industries.
Because if I love this personand they love that person,
chances are they run theirbusiness in a similar way.
And I want to be constantlyadding to my old school Rolodex,
(36:29):
like I want to be constantlybuilding my tribe of local
service providers that I canrefer to, and then I'm just
constantly promoting otherpeople's businesses.
I'm not promoting myself, I'mjust always spotlighting other
people, connecting them to mycommunity, and I just become the
hub of the network.
So you know, in terms of thesystem and the schedule I don't
(36:52):
know how AI plays into that, butI'm sure there's a way.
It just comes down to onesimple thing If you took a job
working for somebody else rightnow, chances are you're doing it
because you want steady incomeand you're not getting it from
your current reality.
And so my question then becomeswhat is the expectation of the
person that hires you?
(37:13):
That there's a business owneror a manager there who has a
plan for profitability, thatthey know what they need you to
do to help make the businessprofitable.
And as long as you show up towork on time and do what's
expected of you, you're going toget paid in exchange for it.
And then I ask people how doyou run your business?
What time do you do the thingsyou say you're going to do, and
(37:33):
on what days of the week?
And then what gets in the way?
Right, if we can commit toshowing up to work on time and
doing what's expected of us, wewill have predictable growth in
our business.
And the way to do that with joyand ease is to stop settling,
pluck the weeds, really evaluatethe relationships in your life
(37:55):
that bring you energy and thenget very intentional on what it
means to that person in thisstage of life they're in.
Who can you enlist to bring andbe a value to them?
And that is the way in which wecan just lighten up, literally
like lighten up, stop stressing,stop worrying, have more fun,
turn the light on from within,share the light with others and
(38:16):
create a wildfire of unexpectedopportunities.
They're out there, I know,because there's people doing it.
It's the only differencebetween us and anyone in them is
that they've decided to thrive.
They're willing to find a wayin this market.
They're not waiting for themarket to change for them to
thrive.
They're not there, they don'thave time for that.
They're just out there creatingvalue and that's it.
It's like it's just lots ofconversations and lots of value
(38:38):
in specific windows of time thatyou protect, like your life
depends on it.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I think we're going to end there.
That was perfect.
It's like keep the light onbaby.
That's what it's all about.
We are open for business.
We are keeping the light on.
So, erin, if people want tofind you or connect, where's the
best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, so I have a free five-step guide to more
referrals that kind of walkspeople through the step-by-step
of just reevaluating your goalsand your people right, the
flowers you want to plant in thegarden and see multiply, and
then strategically how to be avalue to them so that your
business grows.
And you can find that atpursuingfreedomcom or you can
reach out to me on Instagram atpursuingfreedomofficial, dm me.
(39:22):
I love hearing from people likewe're here having this
conversation and putting it outto the ether and hopefully, if
somebody's listening, if youtook one takeaway that was a
value.
Please DM Lindsay or DM me sowe get.
We get motivated to keep going.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It is so fun to get that feedback where people
follow you and you're like wheredid you find me?
They're like I listened to youon a podcast.
I'm like that's yeah, all right.
Well, thank you so much andI'll definitely link both of
those and everything youmentioned in the show notes.
But thank you again for jumpingon.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, lindsay.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com