February 14, 2025 • 37 mins
What’s it really like being married to a real estate agent? In this special Valentine’s Day episode, I’m joined by my husband, Andrew, as we dive into the highs, the challenges, and the downright hilarious realities of being a real estate spouse.
After 16 years together (and nearly 21 years in real estate), Andrew has had a front-row seat to the wild ride of this industry—weekend widowhood, unpredictable schedules, and the ever-present “should I work or should we go on vacation” dilemma. We’re unpacking four key lessons he’s learned along the way, from redefining time and money to breaking traditional gender roles and embracing the unpredictability of it all.
If you’ve ever wondered how real estate shapes relationships—or if your partner has ever given you “the speech” about a $50K commission—you won’t want to miss this one. Tune in for real talk, a few laughs, and a reminder that success in real estate is even better with the right support system by your side.
PS: Happy Valentine's Day, Andrew! I love you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I am so excited because I am here with my life
partner, Andrew, and we arebringing you a Valentine's Day
special with my boo.
I wanted to do an episode onthe things that Andrew has
learned being a non-real estatespouse.
(00:21):
We've been together for 16years, which is bananas, and I
have been a real estate agentfor almost 21.
So we definitely, I think, area good example of a real estate
relationship.
You've had many real estatewidowhoods on the weekend and
the nights, so hello hi, apleasure to be joining you today
(00:47):
.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Um, it's probably worth actually pointing out on
the front end that, um, anythingI talk about is an experience
being a cisgendered man marriedto a cisgender realtor woman,
true, and so I have a feeling alot of this stuff probably
doesn't shake out the same wayif you're like a more like trad
wife married to a husband who'sa realtor, who's also a primary
(01:08):
breadwinner.
But I mean, I also think that'skind of the fun.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So right, okay.
Well, we're here because we areempower women who are going to
step into their ceo era.
So we're going to guess herethat these women are like bosses
like they're they're ceos oftheir business so let's just go
under that assumption.
I I mean I'm going to go underthat assumption because that's
(01:31):
what I am, so, all right, solet's talk about you have four
lessons for us, or four thingsyou have learned about being a
real estate spouse or partner.
And you, you, first of all.
I know you love to talk and Ilove that about you, so, like
you're, I call him myAustropedia, because he knows
(01:53):
everything.
And you have four things thatyou have learned, or four
takeaways, and I'm reallyexcited to get into them.
So, the first one I'm going togo ahead and let you dive into
that.
Sure, the first one, I'm goingto go ahead and let you dive
into that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Sure, I think the biggest adjustment, coming into
a relationship with a realtorand then having spent 16 years
with you, is that realtors lookat time differently than the
rest of us.
Moguls and kind of what I meanby that is I think the vast
majority of us work Mondaythrough Friday, you know, eight
(02:26):
to five or whatever.
And that's just not the realityof being a realtor.
You know, not only are thehours non-traditional, but
they're also, you know,unpredictable.
And I vividly remember you andI going out to lunch at I think
it was like a Chinese place inManchester and and the table
(02:47):
there were two tables over forus there was a woman talking on
her cell phone and a man sittingacross from her staring glumly
down at his food.
And I could just tell, like Iknew that, look, I knew, I knew
that dinner.
I knew exactly what was goingon.
That was an act of negotiationand she was haggling it out in
the middle of their date night.
And I think that's like.
(03:09):
The first takeaway is that youhave to be very aware of the
fact that realtors just look attime differently.
The hours are not only unique,but they're unpredictable.
The hours are not only unique,but they're unpredictable.
But more than that the amountof money they make per hour they
spend while working is sowildly different than the rest
(03:36):
of us.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right, especially like active negotiation time.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's like money making time, like a million
dollar listing, you're probablypocketing close to a thousand
dollars for every hour you workon that listing, right, and
that's just.
I mean I'd like to think I'mfairly successful and well
compensated, but like I'm not inthat level and I frankly know
very few people that are so thatrecognition of how much
(04:05):
different that truly is, it'shard to understate, it's hard to
overstate and it's one of thosethings where you know you tell
somebody oh yeah, I work weirdhours.
They go, yeah, okay, fine, andthey're like no, but you don't
understand, their hours are very, very weird, and so you kind of
have to be flexible on thatfront but also recognize that it
(04:27):
opens up a lot of opportunities.
And because it's not just hours, it's also calendars, right,
like you know, the nine to fivejob tends to come with two days
off once a week and two weeksoff for vacation.
Obviously that's not therealtor lifestyle.
Plenty of realtors can besuccessful and productive
working three or four days aweek and then they can take
(04:49):
months off.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Right, or they can go on vacation and sell a house.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, one of the things I found this was less you
and more the agents in yourbrokerage, but it was like they
had an amount of money theywanted to make and once they
made it, they just sort ofchecked out for the rest of the
year.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Um, I don't recommend that as a strategy.
No, it was a bad strategy, butI mean it was like.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I vividly remember you grinding your teeth in
december because you had likemillion dollar leads coming in
and like, everyone was like well, I'm done for the year.
I'm filled up, yeah, good andso I'm, like you know, wrapping
presents at home by myself andyou're out doing listings.
But hey, it was a great closeto the year, I know.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I couldn't believe that.
I was like, really Like, youguys don't want this, fine, I'll
take it.
I'll sell the house myself Putmy plates back on.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I'm doing it and so, yeah, like that's like one most
empowering parts of the job isthat it allows realtors to kind
of almost check out of society,which is wild.
Like there's just not that manyjobs.
I mean, I guess, like you know,linemen that go out and repair
(05:58):
power lines after storms, likethey kind of have like a life
like that, I guess there's justnot a lot of jobs that do that.
And because it is so outside ofthe rest of the economy that I
don't know that most peoplereally appreciate how incredibly
different it is, because it's,you know, like I said, it's one
of the things where you hear itand you're like, oh yeah, I get
that.
It's like, no, you don't reallyget it.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It's so, so, so much different than you even think,
even think yeah, I think likeyou're really trading time for
money and there's this calculusthat has to occur not just with
you as the real estate agent,but it also has to occur with
you, with your partner and yourfamily, like is this worth
taking five hours away fromfamily time or time with my
(06:41):
husband, and like that'sdefinitely a calculus that like
came into play.
That was very different thanwhen I was just single, lindsay,
cause I remember I'd be showinghome to like 11 PM and it was
not a big deal.
But once I had a husband andonce I had the kids, it like
totally flipped the script.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I mean, we were , you know, when we were in DC
and we lived next to a couple,one of whom was a realtor as
well, and I remember talking tothe husband about the fact that
his husband wasn't there at this, this party, on a sunday, and I
was like, oh, let me guess.
It was like he's like yeah,yeah, he's going to open houses
with a client.
I was like, oh, I get that.
I was like, did he give youlike the speech?
And he says what's the speechlindsay was?
(07:22):
It was like it was like terriblewhen we first started dating,
because be like, yeah, I reallywant to spend time with you this
weekend, because I worked mythrough Fridays.
I don't want to spend time withyou.
And you'd say, well, you areimportant to me, you are a
priority, and if it is importantto you that we spend time
together this weekend, that thatis what we shall do.
However, the clients I'm goingout with are looking up to $1.5
(07:44):
million and so, therefore, if Isell them a house this weekend,
that's $50,000 I can put in mypocket and we can go to Mexico
for two weeks.
So I will leave it to you.
Would you rather me spend theweekend with you here on the
couch, or would you like me togo make $50,000?
That's manipulative.
Yeah, you were horrible, and soyeah, and and, and that's just
(08:10):
the.
The worst part is is like, yeah, I'd argue it is a little
manipulative, but it's not wrong, and that's like I think kind
of the problem is it's not likeit's a miscommunication, it's
not like it's a structuralchoice, it's just the nature of
the job.
It's facts.
Yeah, it's facts.
It's just that it creates a setof imperatives that are
(08:31):
unrecognizable and it can be alittle challenging not to resent
the realtor for the realitiesof their job.
Right, like, those are thefacts of the situation.
You't create them, you didn'tmanipulate them, it's just the
way it works.
And so, like, even though Imight be frustrated with that
kind of thing, it's not reallyfair for me to get frustrated at
(08:53):
you it's just the nature ofwhat you do and so truly
embracing that level ofdifference is is a challenge.
But I think once you can riseto it, like you realize there's,
once you can rise to it, yourealize there's some immense
upsides to it.
Like I said, the $1,000 an hourstuff or the fact that you can
(09:14):
literally go on month-longvacations and not sacrifice your
professional output.
There's so much freedom.
Yeah, we would come up to ourvacation house like a lot like
for a month at a time, which wasso cool it's really neat, yeah,
and I think it's one of thosethings where, like you know,
working remote's great, but ifyou're both working remote from
(09:35):
your vacation house, there's alimit to how vacation-y it feels
.
But like the fact that I couldwork remote and you didn't have
to really work at all wasamazing.
Promote and you didn't have toreally work at all was amazing.
It truly felt like a realvacation and that's, I think,
something really special andprecious.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, that is really cool.
As you were talking, I wasthinking that, like you do have
to have trust in your realtorpartner that they are being
considerate and puttingboundaries around their time,
like you kind of have to have atrust that they're not just like
working all the time to workall the time yeah, I mean, I
think, I mean, I think that'sjust as somebody that's not a
(10:13):
realtor but I feel very likeexposed to the, to the life.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I think that's one of the things that's really
challenging about like Icouldn't be a realtor and and I
think the reason is because itrequires an immense amount of
self-discipline to not loseyourself in the job.
Like I don't know of many jobswhere you can literally work
yourself to death.
You can do that as a realtor.
I also don't know of as manyjobs where you can embrace it as
(10:39):
an identity and not make anymoney, right, I mean, I know,
you know realtors, everybodylistening to this knows realtors
, but they don't actually sellany houses, they're not actually
doing any prospecting, they'renot actually doing any market
research, but they just tellpeople they're realtors and then
they like kind of like drivearound and drink coffee.
And so I think, realtor, sayingyou're a realtor is like saying
(10:59):
you're an entrepreneur, likeyeah, the bar is stupendously
low but the barriers to successare incredibly high, and whereas
you know it's very hard tobecome a lawyer, but like, once
you are a lawyer, there's sortof like a limit to how much of a
fuck up you can be, and like arealtor is the opposite.
It's extremely easy to become arealtor.
(11:26):
It's very hard to be a good one,and that puts a lot of pressure
, I think, on realtors to treatthemselves as professionals
versus having it be like a cozyidentity they can, just as an
excuse to not actually doingsomething with their lives, and
so the discipline required tosay nope, I'm going to.
I am going to work my spherefrom 9 am to 1 pm Tuesday,
wednesday and Thursday, and thenI'm going to preview some open
houses Thursday and Friday.
(11:46):
And you know, having that kindof like a cadence to your life
Like I think it's reallyimportant, not just because I
mean that's how you become asuccessful realtor is having
that level of discipline, but italso allows other people in
your life to start to see it asa job that it is Like.
I think it would be a lotharder for me to be as
understanding around your needto be 24 seven available during
(12:11):
um uh, active negotiations If Ididn't also see you putting in
the like base level backgroundwork that had to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, like I'm treating it like a real job.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's the.
I think it's kind of funnybecause it's I know it's the
part that realtors don't like todo, but it's the stuff that
they don't like to do that notonly generates a platform for
future success, but also allowsother people in their lives to
see it as a profession that itis versus.
You guys are just waiting forlottery tickets to drop out of
(12:43):
the sky because it can look likethat.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It really can sometimes.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I know.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, so that's point number one which was the
relationship to time and I wouldeven say money kind of changes
a little bit.
All right, let's go to yourpoint number two.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Ah yeah, heteronormative goes out the
window.
So I know that in friends thatI have, where both the husband
and wife you know cisgendernormative stuff they're both in
the workforce and at night, youknow, the husband does the
little projects or contacts thecontractor to do the update to
(13:18):
the bathroom and the wife cooksdinner, um, and then they both
lay down and go to sleep at 10o'clock at night and then wake
up the next morning, get dressedand go to the office.
Like that's just not how lifelooks with a realtor.
Um, the cause a lot of thingschange.
Like you handle all pointcontact with contractors, right,
(13:39):
that's so funny, and the fewtimes you don't, it does not go
well at all.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
If there's negotiation involved, I'm doing
it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, oh yeah, we'll get to that one
in a second.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
But yeah it's so.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I think what's interesting is that being a
successful realtor forces you tobe very good at conflict
resolution, be very good atcontract negotiation and really
understand home mechanics.
I mean, it's kind of like homeec on steroids in a way.
And so, as, like you know, thequote unquote man in the
(14:16):
relationship, like I'm you know,if, if, if, the if I want the
bathroom to be changed, um, itdoesn't make sense for me to
call a contractor because I'mnot going to know what the right
plumbing fixture is, I'm notgoing to know the right price.
I mean I'm not even know whatkind of plumbing we have right,
it's like, it's there, it'swhite, and then when you poop in
it, it like makes it go away,and that's the extent of I truly
(14:38):
don't know the brand of toiletwe have in our house and so um,
like, and, and that's the thing.
It's in a typical relationshipthat the relationships that I've
seen it's the men that runpoint on all of that, whereas
the women run point on the moretraditional domestic stuff,
which is laundry and cooking andshopping.
But and here's the weird partthat stuff the laundry, the
(15:01):
cooking and the shopping thoseare daily tasks, whereas a lot
of home maintenance stuff ismore strategic tasks, and so the
daily tasks have to be donedaily, regardless of the
circumstance.
So it actually doesn't makesense for you to run point on
like shopping and cooking,because you might be pulled into
(15:23):
a listing presentation, youmight have to go on a showing
and so like, whereas you're nowfar more qualified to deal with
a lot of the more traditionallymale activities in a
relationship.
I have to get better at thetraditionally female ones,
because I can't expect you to behome at night to cook dinner
(15:43):
every night, like.
I can't expect you to be able to, to have the time to, like you
know, do the dishes in theevening or put the kids to bed,
and so, like you know, our, ourgender roles and our
relationships don't look likenormal gender roles.
And you know, it's pretty fluid, it's very fluid and so, like
it's a little odd, because it'slike, at the drop of the hat, I
(16:06):
have to be Mr Mom or I have tobe Mr Bob, and you have to be Mr
Dad.
Exactly, and but there's there'swonderful upsides, like I.
I mean, one of my favoritememories about being married to
a realtor was when we werelooking at buying that car in DC
.
And I remember I forget whatthe car was.
I remember it was in aninfinity and we go and we test
(16:27):
drive it and I was like, yeah, Ikind of like this car.
And the salesman was this likekind of pudgy 50 year old dude
and he sort of slaps me on theshoulder.
And he sort of slaps me on theshoulder and he's like, well,
why don't you and I go in theback and we'll go talk numbers
while the little lady gets a cupof coffee?
And I remember just smiling andsaying, oh, that's not how this
works, I don't talk numbers,I'm going to go get a cup of
coffee.
And then you and he disappearedinto the back room and then 10
(16:50):
minutes later you came out andthe guy was like sweating, his
tie was undone and he wasbreathing heavy.
I had sex with him.
No, no, no.
But you were just screaming andyou were just like, yeah, we
couldn't get there on numbers.
And it was like, yeah, it'slike I don't even want to know
what you did to that poor guy inthat back room, but like I
think you took 10 years off ofhis life.
But you know, we didn't buy thecar because, like I don't deal
(17:13):
with the negotiations, becausewhy the hell would I like you do
this for a living?
You're way better at it than Iam, um, and so, yeah, I think
that's.
The other piece is just how you, just in the same way you have
to let go of your expectationsaround how time works.
You have to let go of yourexpectations with how genders
and gender roles work, becausebut it's not, it's not a
(17:34):
sacrifice you have to make, it'san adjustment you have to
accommodate, because, because,like, once you do let go of it,
like it's not like I want to donegotiations, like you're better
at them, and because of thatfact, we purchase properties for
less, we buy cars for less,like I can point to actual
dollar savings that you wereable to wring out of processes
(17:56):
that I couldn't, and so you know, yeah, so sweet to hear yeah.
So in stepping back and lettingyou run point on that, it makes
for a better life for us to lead, like if I were to hang on to
those tasks out of someantiquated notion of what my
role in the relationship is likethen, like we wouldn't have
(18:16):
these savings.
Instead, I go home and I bakesourdough bread for the kids
sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I mean, you also know how to like take apart a Jeep.
We have a few things Well.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I guess that's actually.
That's actually kind ofprobably a good point too.
Like when I was younger, I meanI did build a Jeep from scratch
.
I used to smoke Marlboros, Iused to used to, I used to drive
, I used to be a whitewater raftguide, and so I feel like one
of the reasons I'm so cool withnot giving a shit about gender
(18:48):
roles is like I was so over thetop in my like early 20s, yeah,
around like being a dude's dude,like that.
It's like there's nothing leftto prove.
Like I've owned miatas proudly,because after you've built your
own jeep, like there's nothingleft to prove on that front.
So yeah, and so because,because I'm very secure in that,
(19:11):
because I've already had accessto that, like it was very easy
for me.
So I'm not saying it's it's,I'm not saying it's easy and I
could see how, if you didn'thave that experience as like a,
a cisgendered male in yourearlier years, it might be hard
to feel comfortable like walkingaway from those expectations
now.
But I'm very lucky because Ialready was able to live so high
(19:31):
off the charts on one hand,that letting go of all of it now
and just you know, being theguy that you know, tucks the
kids in at night and bakes thebread for the sandwiches in the
morning.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I'm fine with that.
I got.
I got nothing left to prove.
Well, I love you for it.
Your flexibility and just notneeding to be the man of the
house is like one of your bestqualities to be honest.
You're super flexible andyou're a really great life
partner.
All right, so heteronormativeout of the window.
(20:01):
I think we got that one naileddown.
All right, what's point numberthree for you?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
You can drive yourself crazy trying to make a
life with a realtor look like anormal life and I've seen it
happen.
Like I think back to that guyin that restaurant staring
glumly at his plate I know itwas really I almost like just
went and put my arm around hisshoulder like I I feel your
brother, I've been there, um,but the reality is that, like if
(20:31):
you try to treat a realtor likea typical woman, it won't work
and you just set yourself up fordisappointment.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I've seen it backfire too, with agents that have been
at my brokerage where thehusband is not okay with their
wife being a realtor, like justagain.
Going back to point number two,it's like they wanted her to
play a particular role and theywanted to put that round peg in
a round hole, but that hole didnot accommodate who that woman?
(21:05):
Was.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And I think it's.
I think it's like a hard timein our society where I feel like
the last 20 years, like at acultural level, women have been
given a path toself-actualization that is
independent of others.
Right like we now have aconcept I mean it's not widely
adopted and there's alwayschallenges and let's not talk
(21:27):
about an election but like thereis now at least a.
There is an archetype, there isa model for a woman that lives
a full and complete life inisolation.
Like you do not need a man forfulfillment.
You might want one and somepeople might prefer one.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, I like, I like mine, I'm a keeper, I'm into
mine, but it's no longernecessary.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And I think the one of the um and I think one of the
challenges is I think, in alarge, large way, what society
expects of men is actually stilldefined through their
relationship with other people,Not in a good or healthy way
right.
Like you know, sexual dominanceis like part of a masculine
(22:08):
identity thing and like that'sbad, but like it still implies
that there's at least somebodythere that you're dominating.
And so I don't know that therereally are great archetypes for
men where they can get a senseof fulfillment or can look to a
role model and say I don't needsomeone else in my life to reach
(22:33):
that level of success, ofsuccess, even the real, the
high-flying tech bro types ofthings.
They're never alone.
You always see them with thesupermodels.
So even the ones where it's notequal, even the ones where it's
abusive, there is still someoneelse there.
(22:54):
And so when you're with arealtor who can up and disappear
at any moment because they'regoing to go make $50,000 in the
next four hours, there's notreally a place to put that, I
think, in most concepts ofmasculine identity that I have
exposure to.
And so if you are trying tomake your life with the realtor
(23:19):
in your life, with the realtorin your life, fit, really any
archetypical relationshipdynamic that I'm familiar with
it just doesn't work.
And so you wind up withresentment because, you know,
not only is the wife not playingthe traditional gender role of
(23:40):
you know meeting you at the doorwith the mixed drink and the
home-cooked meal, especiallywhen you introduce kids into the
equation.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Right, when you introduce kids into the equation
.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's like what?
Like once you realize that,like she's just never gonna be
able to be that person, likethere's just not.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I mean sorry to interrupt, but then add in she
might make more than you.
Yeah, you know it's kind offunny.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Actually, I don't know that that's as big a thing
as it might seem.
I I, because I've seen realtorrelationships blow up too, and I
don't see, because the thing is, you guys don't make money like
normal people we aren't normal.
No, I mean like every every twoweeks I get a little piece of
paper that feeds my validationbecause it has a number on it
(24:27):
and I and it's a fun number tolook at, and you don't get that
every two weeks, like now.
Every you know few weeks, youget a random piece of number a
random piece of paper that comesout of the blue and has an
astronomically high number, butit's like at no point, like I
still don't know what you makeevery year.
I don't think I've ever in our16 years together, I don't
(24:47):
actually think I can name apoint in time where I could tell
you how much money you madeover the course of a year I mean
to be honest, I can't even tellyou like, because it doesn't
matter, even after my taxes aredone, like it's like it's a.
It's such a fuzzy number becausea it happens at random, so the
money coming in is unpredictableand all over the map and you
guys carry so many expenses that, like it's top line, you know
(25:11):
the money that my, my companypays me, I put in my pocket.
I don't have to go out and then, like you know, spend dollars
on zillow leads to go getanother paycheck.
There's a whole profit lossinvolved so I've often thought
that the issue that men havewith realtors and feeling
threatened by realtors is lessaround the fact they make more
money, because, even if it'strue it's not like you
(25:33):
necessarily are exposed to that,I think it comes down to
they're not playing the rolethat society tells you they
should play and they're notaround, so you can't play the
role that society tells you youshould play, and so I think it's
easier to resent realtors fortheir absence than it is for
(25:53):
their income.
And so yeah, and that's that'sthe problem.
It's like if that's importantto you or if that's what you're
looking for in a relationship orin a dynamic, like it's just
not going to work because thenature of the beast means that
you're just not going to havethose cards to play.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
It was fascinating.
We just got into, like,masculinity, femininity.
So you're just not going tohave those cards to play.
It was fascinating.
We just got into, like,masculinity, femininity.
This is so.
You're so deep, I love you.
Okay, one more point.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, so um .
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Point number four.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Well, this is sort of like the, the, the, the happy
note to end on for all three.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
This is like the cherry on top yeah, exactly
Valentine's Day Sunday.
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I think it takes, I think, a certain amount of
strength.
It takes a certain amount ofcourage to truly embrace the
fact that it's just not going tobe what anyone you know you
yourself, society, your parentstold you your relationship's
going to be Like.
Your relationship will neverwork the way others do.
(26:54):
Or your life or your life, yeah,or yeah exactly, or your life
it's just, it's just not in thecards, it's not going to happen.
And like, once you accept thatand I'm not saying it's easy
because it's hard and and I cansee why I really understand.
I never struggled with itpersonally, but I can definitely
see why other people would andI don't resent them for that.
(27:16):
I mean, that's another, I think, important thing to point out,
which is if your spouse or yourboyfriend is like struggling
with coming to grips with this,it's probably worth being a
little bit patient andrecognizing exactly how much of
a shift or how much of a changethe lifestyle asks of him, and
(27:40):
recognize the fact that he mightnot be he's probably not aware
of it, like it's easy for me tosay this with 16 years of
experience.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
When you met me when I was a realtor.
So like there's also that,where you've been, maybe you've
been in a relationship and youbecome a realtor and that
person's known you beforerealtoring oh yeah, there's also
that, where you've been, maybeyou've been in a relationship
and you become a realtor andthat person's known you before
realtoring oh yeah, that'd behorrible, right, it'd be so hard
.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
And so I think that's like thekey thing is is, like you know,
having a little patience wouldprobably go a long way, and
recognizing that the, the, the,the guy in your life might not
even be aware of why it's souncomfortable and certainly
won't be able to articulate it,and so like having some patience
on that front, or recognizingHaving a good therapist lined up
(28:20):
.
Having a good therapist God,that'd be a good niche is like a
realtor therapist.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
We all need it.
It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
That seriously, would be a good niche.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
They don't need help.
We have a mental health crisisin our country right now.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
A realtor relationship coach.
That'd be really cool.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
That'd be really cool .
Do you want to do it?
We could do it together.
That'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
It'd be really fun, but no, and so I guess the point
of it is is that, like thefirst step is really the biggest
and really the hardest.
Like you got to make this hugejump.
You got to walk away fromeverything that like society has
told you that you should be,that they should be, that you
what you're sure.
Right, you have to walk awayfrom a lot of stuff, but once
you do, there's all this insaneupside.
(28:59):
Like I don't particularly likenegotiating for cars.
You view it as like arecreational hobby, I know.
So it's like, all of a sudden,there's all of this
heteronormative work that like,yeah, I might have found some
masculine sense of fulfillmentand performing, but at the same
time, like it's not, like Ienjoyed it.
And so once you get used to it,you're like, oh sweet, I don't
have to do this anymore, that'sawesome.
(29:20):
Taxes I don't have to do taxes.
I wouldn't even know where tostart with your numbers.
So this is great, I'm so.
Oh, my God, that'd be aterrible idea, or, you know.
Or like vacations, like, yeah,like when we were talking about
going to like Denmark for sixweeks with the kids, like that's
.
I mean, I can't even begin toimagine how disruptive that
(29:42):
would be for the folks out therewith, I mean, god, could you
imagine, especially in like atrades job where you couldn't go
remote?
I mean, like that kind of stuffis impossible, it would take
years of planning.
But for us it's like an impulsemove because of the nature of
your work.
And so I think, like withanything, there's always this
(30:02):
tension between the comfort andsafety of the known and the
thrill and the potential of theunknown.
Like that I think that's partof the human experience is like
how do you balance those twothings?
And just recognizing that beingwith a realtor is a
conscientious step into theunknown and it does require
(30:25):
courage and it does requireadjustments.
But once you make thatcommitment very, very early on
in a relationship, the backendis all upside.
You know, know.
Because once you get over thefact that like you're not going
to look like a traditional guyto your friends, you know now,
from that point on, it's all youknow.
Denmark for six weeks andimpulse purchasing.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Getting a 32 foot RV.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Well, no, the one, the one that really got me
buying a 30.
Well, no, the one, the one thatreally got me.
Um, because I talk about itwith the kids, because I worry
that the kids look at our livesas like how normal people live
and they just don't.
But you know, when I was whenwe talked about this too when I
was out of college and waitingtables at one point, and I would
take my tips and I'd bring themhome every night and I'd tuck
them into this plastic cup I hadon my desk and I'd really hope
(31:10):
by end of the month there'd beenough cash in the cup to pay
the rent and pay all the billsand I, like, took the little
dollars and I remember thefeeling of the cup.
And then when you had the guycome into your office and asked
to sell this property and hesaid, asked you what he could
get for it, and you saidno-transcript.
(31:37):
And then we bought the houseand then it needed a new faucet
and you asked me if I could goinstall it and I said yeah, and
I go to the Home Depot and I'min the car with this new faucet
and riding shotgun and I'mdriving around the neighborhood
and then it hit me.
I didn't know where the housewas and we were both on the deed
right.
This was a house I owned, yeah,and I.
I had gone from stuffing dollarbills in a plastic cup to pay
(32:00):
the rent to literally misplacinga house that I owned and that
was.
I think that was the pointwhere it really hit me about
like this is just not how normalpeople live.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
You just have such an immense amount of trust in me.
I just think that's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, I mean.
But the thing is is like whywouldn't I trust you with real
estate decisions?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
True that Right.
Yeah, you're in healthcare.
I trust you with our healthcare.
Yeah, exactly, that's true.
I picked the health insurance Iget that.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Right.
And so, yeah, like, yeah,obviously, trust is important,
but like, yeah, like I said,once you get there like it's
really what I think with a lotof relationships it's the first
part, that's the fun part, andthen it kind of gets more
challenging as you go.
And I think in real estate it'sthe other way around the hard
stuff beyond, like the thirddate, the hard stuff is all
(32:48):
front loaded.
It's the back end, that'samazing.
Stuff is all front loaded, it'sthe back end, that's amazing.
And so you sort of have to havethe courage and the patience to
like, take the long view andthen enjoy the ride on the back
end.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
and so, yeah, that would be my takeaway these are
so great and like I just thinkthat it's kind of fun to let
people in, because I do talkabout how real estate can build
your dream life.
And again, we don't always goon these rides by ourselves,
solo, so it's been fun becauseyou've been along for the ride.
(33:19):
And it hasn't always beensmooth, it has definitely been
bumpy, but I think at the end,like you and I are so incredibly
I hate this word, but blessed-to like live the life that we
live, and I really think so muchof it is not only real estate,
but it was also.
you were such a good real estatepartner.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Oh, that's sweet, I like that.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And so I.
There was a major motivationfor like I know we're just
chatting over lunch I'm like wehave to record this podcast
episode because I think that wedon't talk often enough about
the support system behind therealtor and people always ask me
how do you do everything thatyou do?
And I say I have an incrediblysupportive partner at home, and
(34:07):
if you don't have that, it'svery hard.
I think it's not possible butit's very hard to build your
dream life through real estateif you don't have support at
home.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I literally cannot understand how that would work
if she was enjoying even amodicum of professional success.
Right, like it just isn't.
I mean forget, like women can'thave it, all kind of stuff Like
it's just not possible.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
No, the mental load, the time, the demands, the
energy demands.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Well, it's like how they would hit at the same time.
I mean, it's not even likethere's not enough hours in a
day, it's you just can't be intwo places at once.
Like, yeah, I think that's,that would be brutally hard,
brutally hard.
And so I think that's the,that's the, the, the potential
and the peril is being able toexplain to the man in your life
(35:10):
around.
Listen, this is going torequire a lot from you, but,
like, let me tell you all thecool parts about this, because
there's quite a few.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
There are really quite a few.
Well, thank you so much forjumping on the Happy Agent Co
podcast.
You are an amazing partner andI couldn't have done any of this
without you.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Oh, that's cute.
Happy to help, as always.
I love you.
I love you too.
I am so excited because I am here with my life
partner, Andrew, and we arebringing you a Valentine's Day
special with my boo.
I wanted to do an episode onthe things that Andrew has
learned being a non-real estatespouse.
(00:21):
We've been together for 16years, which is bananas, and I
have been a real estate agentfor almost 21.
So we definitely, I think, area good example of a real estate
relationship.
You've had many real estatewidowhoods on the weekend and
the nights, so hello hi, apleasure to be joining you today
(00:47):
.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Um, it's probably worth actually pointing out on
the front end that, um, anythingI talk about is an experience
being a cisgendered man marriedto a cisgender realtor woman,
true, and so I have a feeling alot of this stuff probably
doesn't shake out the same wayif you're like a more like trad
wife married to a husband who'sa realtor, who's also a primary
(01:08):
breadwinner.
But I mean, I also think that'skind of the fun.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So right, okay.
Well, we're here because we areempower women who are going to
step into their ceo era.
So we're going to guess herethat these women are like bosses
like they're they're ceos oftheir business so let's just go
under that assumption.
I I mean I'm going to go underthat assumption because that's
(01:31):
what I am, so, all right, solet's talk about you have four
lessons for us, or four thingsyou have learned about being a
real estate spouse or partner.
And you, you, first of all.
I know you love to talk and Ilove that about you, so, like
you're, I call him myAustropedia, because he knows
(01:53):
everything.
And you have four things thatyou have learned, or four
takeaways, and I'm reallyexcited to get into them.
So, the first one I'm going togo ahead and let you dive into
that.
Sure, the first one, I'm goingto go ahead and let you dive
into that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Sure, I think the biggest adjustment, coming into
a relationship with a realtorand then having spent 16 years
with you, is that realtors lookat time differently than the
rest of us.
Moguls and kind of what I meanby that is I think the vast
majority of us work Mondaythrough Friday, you know, eight
(02:26):
to five or whatever.
And that's just not the realityof being a realtor.
You know, not only are thehours non-traditional, but
they're also, you know,unpredictable.
And I vividly remember you andI going out to lunch at I think
it was like a Chinese place inManchester and and the table
(02:47):
there were two tables over forus there was a woman talking on
her cell phone and a man sittingacross from her staring glumly
down at his food.
And I could just tell, like Iknew that, look, I knew, I knew
that dinner.
I knew exactly what was goingon.
That was an act of negotiationand she was haggling it out in
the middle of their date night.
And I think that's like.
(03:09):
The first takeaway is that youhave to be very aware of the
fact that realtors just look attime differently.
The hours are not only unique,but they're unpredictable.
The hours are not only unique,but they're unpredictable.
But more than that the amountof money they make per hour they
spend while working is sowildly different than the rest
(03:36):
of us.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right, especially like active negotiation time.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's like money making time, like a million
dollar listing, you're probablypocketing close to a thousand
dollars for every hour you workon that listing, right, and
that's just.
I mean I'd like to think I'mfairly successful and well
compensated, but like I'm not inthat level and I frankly know
very few people that are so thatrecognition of how much
(04:05):
different that truly is, it'shard to understate, it's hard to
overstate and it's one of thosethings where you know you tell
somebody oh yeah, I work weirdhours.
They go, yeah, okay, fine, andthey're like no, but you don't
understand, their hours are very, very weird, and so you kind of
have to be flexible on thatfront but also recognize that it
(04:27):
opens up a lot of opportunities.
And because it's not just hours, it's also calendars, right,
like you know, the nine to fivejob tends to come with two days
off once a week and two weeksoff for vacation.
Obviously that's not therealtor lifestyle.
Plenty of realtors can besuccessful and productive
working three or four days aweek and then they can take
(04:49):
months off.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Right, or they can go on vacation and sell a house.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, one of the things I found this was less you
and more the agents in yourbrokerage, but it was like they
had an amount of money theywanted to make and once they
made it, they just sort ofchecked out for the rest of the
year.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Um, I don't recommend that as a strategy.
No, it was a bad strategy, butI mean it was like.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I vividly remember you grinding your teeth in
december because you had likemillion dollar leads coming in
and like, everyone was like well, I'm done for the year.
I'm filled up, yeah, good andso I'm, like you know, wrapping
presents at home by myself andyou're out doing listings.
But hey, it was a great closeto the year, I know.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I couldn't believe that.
I was like, really Like, youguys don't want this, fine, I'll
take it.
I'll sell the house myself Putmy plates back on.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I'm doing it and so, yeah, like that's like one most
empowering parts of the job isthat it allows realtors to kind
of almost check out of society,which is wild.
Like there's just not that manyjobs.
I mean, I guess, like you know,linemen that go out and repair
(05:58):
power lines after storms, likethey kind of have like a life
like that, I guess there's justnot a lot of jobs that do that.
And because it is so outside ofthe rest of the economy that I
don't know that most peoplereally appreciate how incredibly
different it is, because it's,you know, like I said, it's one
of the things where you hear itand you're like, oh yeah, I get
that.
It's like, no, you don't reallyget it.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It's so, so, so much different than you even think,
even think yeah, I think likeyou're really trading time for
money and there's this calculusthat has to occur not just with
you as the real estate agent,but it also has to occur with
you, with your partner and yourfamily, like is this worth
taking five hours away fromfamily time or time with my
(06:41):
husband, and like that'sdefinitely a calculus that like
came into play.
That was very different thanwhen I was just single, lindsay,
cause I remember I'd be showinghome to like 11 PM and it was
not a big deal.
But once I had a husband andonce I had the kids, it like
totally flipped the script.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I mean, we were , you know, when we were in DC
and we lived next to a couple,one of whom was a realtor as
well, and I remember talking tothe husband about the fact that
his husband wasn't there at this, this party, on a sunday, and I
was like, oh, let me guess.
It was like he's like yeah,yeah, he's going to open houses
with a client.
I was like, oh, I get that.
I was like, did he give youlike the speech?
And he says what's the speechlindsay was?
(07:22):
It was like it was like terriblewhen we first started dating,
because be like, yeah, I reallywant to spend time with you this
weekend, because I worked mythrough Fridays.
I don't want to spend time withyou.
And you'd say, well, you areimportant to me, you are a
priority, and if it is importantto you that we spend time
together this weekend, that thatis what we shall do.
However, the clients I'm goingout with are looking up to $1.5
(07:44):
million and so, therefore, if Isell them a house this weekend,
that's $50,000 I can put in mypocket and we can go to Mexico
for two weeks.
So I will leave it to you.
Would you rather me spend theweekend with you here on the
couch, or would you like me togo make $50,000?
That's manipulative.
Yeah, you were horrible, and soyeah, and and, and that's just
(08:10):
the.
The worst part is is like, yeah, I'd argue it is a little
manipulative, but it's not wrong, and that's like I think kind
of the problem is it's not likeit's a miscommunication, it's
not like it's a structuralchoice, it's just the nature of
the job.
It's facts.
Yeah, it's facts.
It's just that it creates a setof imperatives that are
(08:31):
unrecognizable and it can be alittle challenging not to resent
the realtor for the realitiesof their job.
Right, like, those are thefacts of the situation.
You't create them, you didn'tmanipulate them, it's just the
way it works.
And so, like, even though Imight be frustrated with that
kind of thing, it's not reallyfair for me to get frustrated at
(08:53):
you it's just the nature ofwhat you do and so truly
embracing that level ofdifference is is a challenge.
But I think once you can riseto it, like you realize there's,
once you can rise to it, yourealize there's some immense
upsides to it.
Like I said, the $1,000 an hourstuff or the fact that you can
(09:14):
literally go on month-longvacations and not sacrifice your
professional output.
There's so much freedom.
Yeah, we would come up to ourvacation house like a lot like
for a month at a time, which wasso cool it's really neat, yeah,
and I think it's one of thosethings where, like you know,
working remote's great, but ifyou're both working remote from
(09:35):
your vacation house, there's alimit to how vacation-y it feels
.
But like the fact that I couldwork remote and you didn't have
to really work at all wasamazing.
Promote and you didn't have toreally work at all was amazing.
It truly felt like a realvacation and that's, I think,
something really special andprecious.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, that is really cool.
As you were talking, I wasthinking that, like you do have
to have trust in your realtorpartner that they are being
considerate and puttingboundaries around their time,
like you kind of have to have atrust that they're not just like
working all the time to workall the time yeah, I mean, I
think, I mean, I think that'sjust as somebody that's not a
(10:13):
realtor but I feel very likeexposed to the, to the life.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I think that's one of the things that's really
challenging about like Icouldn't be a realtor and and I
think the reason is because itrequires an immense amount of
self-discipline to not loseyourself in the job.
Like I don't know of many jobswhere you can literally work
yourself to death.
You can do that as a realtor.
I also don't know of as manyjobs where you can embrace it as
(10:39):
an identity and not make anymoney, right, I mean, I know,
you know realtors, everybodylistening to this knows realtors
, but they don't actually sellany houses, they're not actually
doing any prospecting, they'renot actually doing any market
research, but they just tellpeople they're realtors and then
they like kind of like drivearound and drink coffee.
And so I think, realtor, sayingyou're a realtor is like saying
(10:59):
you're an entrepreneur, likeyeah, the bar is stupendously
low but the barriers to successare incredibly high, and whereas
you know it's very hard tobecome a lawyer, but like, once
you are a lawyer, there's sortof like a limit to how much of a
fuck up you can be, and like arealtor is the opposite.
It's extremely easy to become arealtor.
(11:26):
It's very hard to be a good one,and that puts a lot of pressure
, I think, on realtors to treatthemselves as professionals
versus having it be like a cozyidentity they can, just as an
excuse to not actually doingsomething with their lives, and
so the discipline required tosay nope, I'm going to.
I am going to work my spherefrom 9 am to 1 pm Tuesday,
wednesday and Thursday, and thenI'm going to preview some open
houses Thursday and Friday.
(11:46):
And you know, having that kindof like a cadence to your life
Like I think it's reallyimportant, not just because I
mean that's how you become asuccessful realtor is having
that level of discipline, but italso allows other people in
your life to start to see it asa job that it is Like.
I think it would be a lotharder for me to be as
understanding around your needto be 24 seven available during
(12:11):
um uh, active negotiations If Ididn't also see you putting in
the like base level backgroundwork that had to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, like I'm treating it like a real job.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's the.
I think it's kind of funnybecause it's I know it's the
part that realtors don't like todo, but it's the stuff that
they don't like to do that notonly generates a platform for
future success, but also allowsother people in their lives to
see it as a profession that itis versus.
You guys are just waiting forlottery tickets to drop out of
(12:43):
the sky because it can look likethat.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It really can sometimes.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I know.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, so that's point number one which was the
relationship to time and I wouldeven say money kind of changes
a little bit.
All right, let's go to yourpoint number two.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Ah yeah, heteronormative goes out the
window.
So I know that in friends thatI have, where both the husband
and wife you know cisgendernormative stuff they're both in
the workforce and at night, youknow, the husband does the
little projects or contacts thecontractor to do the update to
(13:18):
the bathroom and the wife cooksdinner, um, and then they both
lay down and go to sleep at 10o'clock at night and then wake
up the next morning, get dressedand go to the office.
Like that's just not how lifelooks with a realtor.
Um, the cause a lot of thingschange.
Like you handle all pointcontact with contractors, right,
(13:39):
that's so funny, and the fewtimes you don't, it does not go
well at all.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
If there's negotiation involved, I'm doing
it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, oh yeah, we'll get to that one
in a second.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
But yeah it's so.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I think what's interesting is that being a
successful realtor forces you tobe very good at conflict
resolution, be very good atcontract negotiation and really
understand home mechanics.
I mean, it's kind of like homeec on steroids in a way.
And so, as, like you know, thequote unquote man in the
(14:16):
relationship, like I'm you know,if, if, if, the if I want the
bathroom to be changed, um, itdoesn't make sense for me to
call a contractor because I'mnot going to know what the right
plumbing fixture is, I'm notgoing to know the right price.
I mean I'm not even know whatkind of plumbing we have right,
it's like, it's there, it'swhite, and then when you poop in
it, it like makes it go away,and that's the extent of I truly
(14:38):
don't know the brand of toiletwe have in our house and so um,
like, and, and that's the thing.
It's in a typical relationshipthat the relationships that I've
seen it's the men that runpoint on all of that, whereas
the women run point on the moretraditional domestic stuff,
which is laundry and cooking andshopping.
But and here's the weird partthat stuff the laundry, the
(15:01):
cooking and the shopping thoseare daily tasks, whereas a lot
of home maintenance stuff ismore strategic tasks, and so the
daily tasks have to be donedaily, regardless of the
circumstance.
So it actually doesn't makesense for you to run point on
like shopping and cooking,because you might be pulled into
(15:23):
a listing presentation, youmight have to go on a showing
and so like, whereas you're nowfar more qualified to deal with
a lot of the more traditionallymale activities in a
relationship.
I have to get better at thetraditionally female ones,
because I can't expect you to behome at night to cook dinner
(15:43):
every night, like.
I can't expect you to be able to, to have the time to, like you
know, do the dishes in theevening or put the kids to bed,
and so, like you know, our, ourgender roles and our
relationships don't look likenormal gender roles.
And you know, it's pretty fluid, it's very fluid and so, like
it's a little odd, because it'slike, at the drop of the hat, I
(16:06):
have to be Mr Mom or I have tobe Mr Bob, and you have to be Mr
Dad.
Exactly, and but there's there'swonderful upsides, like I.
I mean, one of my favoritememories about being married to
a realtor was when we werelooking at buying that car in DC
.
And I remember I forget whatthe car was.
I remember it was in aninfinity and we go and we test
(16:27):
drive it and I was like, yeah, Ikind of like this car.
And the salesman was this likekind of pudgy 50 year old dude
and he sort of slaps me on theshoulder.
And he sort of slaps me on theshoulder and he's like, well,
why don't you and I go in theback and we'll go talk numbers
while the little lady gets a cupof coffee?
And I remember just smiling andsaying, oh, that's not how this
works, I don't talk numbers,I'm going to go get a cup of
coffee.
And then you and he disappearedinto the back room and then 10
(16:50):
minutes later you came out andthe guy was like sweating, his
tie was undone and he wasbreathing heavy.
I had sex with him.
No, no, no.
But you were just screaming andyou were just like, yeah, we
couldn't get there on numbers.
And it was like, yeah, it'slike I don't even want to know
what you did to that poor guy inthat back room, but like I
think you took 10 years off ofhis life.
But you know, we didn't buy thecar because, like I don't deal
(17:13):
with the negotiations, becausewhy the hell would I like you do
this for a living?
You're way better at it than Iam, um, and so, yeah, I think
that's.
The other piece is just how you, just in the same way you have
to let go of your expectationsaround how time works.
You have to let go of yourexpectations with how genders
and gender roles work, becausebut it's not, it's not a
(17:34):
sacrifice you have to make, it'san adjustment you have to
accommodate, because, because,like, once you do let go of it,
like it's not like I want to donegotiations, like you're better
at them, and because of thatfact, we purchase properties for
less, we buy cars for less,like I can point to actual
dollar savings that you wereable to wring out of processes
(17:56):
that I couldn't, and so you know, yeah, so sweet to hear yeah.
So in stepping back and lettingyou run point on that, it makes
for a better life for us to lead, like if I were to hang on to
those tasks out of someantiquated notion of what my
role in the relationship is likethen, like we wouldn't have
(18:16):
these savings.
Instead, I go home and I bakesourdough bread for the kids
sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I mean, you also know how to like take apart a Jeep.
We have a few things Well.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I guess that's actually.
That's actually kind ofprobably a good point too.
Like when I was younger, I meanI did build a Jeep from scratch
.
I used to smoke Marlboros, Iused to used to, I used to drive
, I used to be a whitewater raftguide, and so I feel like one
of the reasons I'm so cool withnot giving a shit about gender
(18:48):
roles is like I was so over thetop in my like early 20s, yeah,
around like being a dude's dude,like that.
It's like there's nothing leftto prove.
Like I've owned miatas proudly,because after you've built your
own jeep, like there's nothingleft to prove on that front.
So yeah, and so because,because I'm very secure in that,
(19:11):
because I've already had accessto that, like it was very easy
for me.
So I'm not saying it's it's,I'm not saying it's easy and I
could see how, if you didn'thave that experience as like a,
a cisgendered male in yourearlier years, it might be hard
to feel comfortable like walkingaway from those expectations
now.
But I'm very lucky because Ialready was able to live so high
(19:31):
off the charts on one hand,that letting go of all of it now
and just you know, being theguy that you know, tucks the
kids in at night and bakes thebread for the sandwiches in the
morning.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I'm fine with that.
I got.
I got nothing left to prove.
Well, I love you for it.
Your flexibility and just notneeding to be the man of the
house is like one of your bestqualities to be honest.
You're super flexible andyou're a really great life
partner.
All right, so heteronormativeout of the window.
(20:01):
I think we got that one naileddown.
All right, what's point numberthree for you?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
You can drive yourself crazy trying to make a
life with a realtor look like anormal life and I've seen it
happen.
Like I think back to that guyin that restaurant staring
glumly at his plate I know itwas really I almost like just
went and put my arm around hisshoulder like I I feel your
brother, I've been there, um,but the reality is that, like if
(20:31):
you try to treat a realtor likea typical woman, it won't work
and you just set yourself up fordisappointment.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I've seen it backfire too, with agents that have been
at my brokerage where thehusband is not okay with their
wife being a realtor, like justagain.
Going back to point number two,it's like they wanted her to
play a particular role and theywanted to put that round peg in
a round hole, but that hole didnot accommodate who that woman?
(21:05):
Was.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And I think it's.
I think it's like a hard timein our society where I feel like
the last 20 years, like at acultural level, women have been
given a path toself-actualization that is
independent of others.
Right like we now have aconcept I mean it's not widely
adopted and there's alwayschallenges and let's not talk
(21:27):
about an election but like thereis now at least a.
There is an archetype, there isa model for a woman that lives
a full and complete life inisolation.
Like you do not need a man forfulfillment.
You might want one and somepeople might prefer one.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, I like, I like mine, I'm a keeper, I'm into
mine, but it's no longernecessary.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And I think the one of the um and I think one of the
challenges is I think, in alarge, large way, what society
expects of men is actually stilldefined through their
relationship with other people,Not in a good or healthy way
right.
Like you know, sexual dominanceis like part of a masculine
(22:08):
identity thing and like that'sbad, but like it still implies
that there's at least somebodythere that you're dominating.
And so I don't know that therereally are great archetypes for
men where they can get a senseof fulfillment or can look to a
role model and say I don't needsomeone else in my life to reach
(22:33):
that level of success, ofsuccess, even the real, the
high-flying tech bro types ofthings.
They're never alone.
You always see them with thesupermodels.
So even the ones where it's notequal, even the ones where it's
abusive, there is still someoneelse there.
(22:54):
And so when you're with arealtor who can up and disappear
at any moment because they'regoing to go make $50,000 in the
next four hours, there's notreally a place to put that, I
think, in most concepts ofmasculine identity that I have
exposure to.
And so if you are trying tomake your life with the realtor
(23:19):
in your life, with the realtorin your life, fit, really any
archetypical relationshipdynamic that I'm familiar with
it just doesn't work.
And so you wind up withresentment because, you know,
not only is the wife not playingthe traditional gender role of
(23:40):
you know meeting you at the doorwith the mixed drink and the
home-cooked meal, especiallywhen you introduce kids into the
equation.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Right, when you introduce kids into the equation
.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's like what?
Like once you realize that,like she's just never gonna be
able to be that person, likethere's just not.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I mean sorry to interrupt, but then add in she
might make more than you.
Yeah, you know it's kind offunny.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Actually, I don't know that that's as big a thing
as it might seem.
I I, because I've seen realtorrelationships blow up too, and I
don't see, because the thing is, you guys don't make money like
normal people we aren't normal.
No, I mean like every every twoweeks I get a little piece of
paper that feeds my validationbecause it has a number on it
(24:27):
and I and it's a fun number tolook at, and you don't get that
every two weeks, like now.
Every you know few weeks, youget a random piece of number a
random piece of paper that comesout of the blue and has an
astronomically high number, butit's like at no point, like I
still don't know what you makeevery year.
I don't think I've ever in our16 years together, I don't
(24:47):
actually think I can name apoint in time where I could tell
you how much money you madeover the course of a year I mean
to be honest, I can't even tellyou like, because it doesn't
matter, even after my taxes aredone, like it's like it's a.
It's such a fuzzy number becausea it happens at random, so the
money coming in is unpredictableand all over the map and you
guys carry so many expenses that, like it's top line, you know
(25:11):
the money that my, my companypays me, I put in my pocket.
I don't have to go out and then, like you know, spend dollars
on zillow leads to go getanother paycheck.
There's a whole profit lossinvolved so I've often thought
that the issue that men havewith realtors and feeling
threatened by realtors is lessaround the fact they make more
money, because, even if it'strue it's not like you
(25:33):
necessarily are exposed to that,I think it comes down to
they're not playing the rolethat society tells you they
should play and they're notaround, so you can't play the
role that society tells you youshould play, and so I think it's
easier to resent realtors fortheir absence than it is for
(25:53):
their income.
And so yeah, and that's that'sthe problem.
It's like if that's importantto you or if that's what you're
looking for in a relationship orin a dynamic, like it's just
not going to work because thenature of the beast means that
you're just not going to havethose cards to play.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
It was fascinating.
We just got into, like,masculinity, femininity.
So you're just not going tohave those cards to play.
It was fascinating.
We just got into, like,masculinity, femininity.
This is so.
You're so deep, I love you.
Okay, one more point.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, so um .
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Point number four.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Well, this is sort of like the, the, the, the happy
note to end on for all three.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
This is like the cherry on top yeah, exactly
Valentine's Day Sunday.
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I think it takes, I think, a certain amount of
strength.
It takes a certain amount ofcourage to truly embrace the
fact that it's just not going tobe what anyone you know you
yourself, society, your parentstold you your relationship's
going to be Like.
Your relationship will neverwork the way others do.
(26:54):
Or your life or your life, yeah,or yeah exactly, or your life
it's just, it's just not in thecards, it's not going to happen.
And like, once you accept thatand I'm not saying it's easy
because it's hard and and I cansee why I really understand.
I never struggled with itpersonally, but I can definitely
see why other people would andI don't resent them for that.
(27:16):
I mean, that's another, I think, important thing to point out,
which is if your spouse or yourboyfriend is like struggling
with coming to grips with this,it's probably worth being a
little bit patient andrecognizing exactly how much of
a shift or how much of a changethe lifestyle asks of him, and
(27:40):
recognize the fact that he mightnot be he's probably not aware
of it, like it's easy for me tosay this with 16 years of
experience.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
When you met me when I was a realtor.
So like there's also that,where you've been, maybe you've
been in a relationship and youbecome a realtor and that
person's known you beforerealtoring oh yeah, there's also
that, where you've been, maybeyou've been in a relationship
and you become a realtor andthat person's known you before
realtoring oh yeah, that'd behorrible, right, it'd be so hard
.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
And so I think that's like thekey thing is is, like you know,
having a little patience wouldprobably go a long way, and
recognizing that the, the, the,the guy in your life might not
even be aware of why it's souncomfortable and certainly
won't be able to articulate it,and so like having some patience
on that front, or recognizingHaving a good therapist lined up
(28:20):
.
Having a good therapist God,that'd be a good niche is like a
realtor therapist.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
We all need it.
It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
That seriously, would be a good niche.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
They don't need help.
We have a mental health crisisin our country right now.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
A realtor relationship coach.
That'd be really cool.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
That'd be really cool .
Do you want to do it?
We could do it together.
That'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
It'd be really fun, but no, and so I guess the point
of it is is that, like thefirst step is really the biggest
and really the hardest.
Like you got to make this hugejump.
You got to walk away fromeverything that like society has
told you that you should be,that they should be, that you
what you're sure.
Right, you have to walk awayfrom a lot of stuff, but once
you do, there's all this insaneupside.
(28:59):
Like I don't particularly likenegotiating for cars.
You view it as like arecreational hobby, I know.
So it's like, all of a sudden,there's all of this
heteronormative work that like,yeah, I might have found some
masculine sense of fulfillmentand performing, but at the same
time, like it's not, like Ienjoyed it.
And so once you get used to it,you're like, oh sweet, I don't
have to do this anymore, that'sawesome.
(29:20):
Taxes I don't have to do taxes.
I wouldn't even know where tostart with your numbers.
So this is great, I'm so.
Oh, my God, that'd be aterrible idea, or, you know.
Or like vacations, like, yeah,like when we were talking about
going to like Denmark for sixweeks with the kids, like that's
.
I mean, I can't even begin toimagine how disruptive that
(29:42):
would be for the folks out therewith, I mean, god, could you
imagine, especially in like atrades job where you couldn't go
remote?
I mean, like that kind of stuffis impossible, it would take
years of planning.
But for us it's like an impulsemove because of the nature of
your work.
And so I think, like withanything, there's always this
(30:02):
tension between the comfort andsafety of the known and the
thrill and the potential of theunknown.
Like that I think that's partof the human experience is like
how do you balance those twothings?
And just recognizing that beingwith a realtor is a
conscientious step into theunknown and it does require
(30:25):
courage and it does requireadjustments.
But once you make thatcommitment very, very early on
in a relationship, the backendis all upside.
You know, know.
Because once you get over thefact that like you're not going
to look like a traditional guyto your friends, you know now,
from that point on, it's all youknow.
Denmark for six weeks andimpulse purchasing.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Getting a 32 foot RV.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Well, no, the one, the one that really got me
buying a 30.
Well, no, the one, the one thatreally got me.
Um, because I talk about itwith the kids, because I worry
that the kids look at our livesas like how normal people live
and they just don't.
But you know, when I was whenwe talked about this too when I
was out of college and waitingtables at one point, and I would
take my tips and I'd bring themhome every night and I'd tuck
them into this plastic cup I hadon my desk and I'd really hope
(31:10):
by end of the month there'd beenough cash in the cup to pay
the rent and pay all the billsand I, like, took the little
dollars and I remember thefeeling of the cup.
And then when you had the guycome into your office and asked
to sell this property and hesaid, asked you what he could
get for it, and you saidno-transcript.
(31:37):
And then we bought the houseand then it needed a new faucet
and you asked me if I could goinstall it and I said yeah, and
I go to the Home Depot and I'min the car with this new faucet
and riding shotgun and I'mdriving around the neighborhood
and then it hit me.
I didn't know where the housewas and we were both on the deed
right.
This was a house I owned, yeah,and I.
I had gone from stuffing dollarbills in a plastic cup to pay
(32:00):
the rent to literally misplacinga house that I owned and that
was.
I think that was the pointwhere it really hit me about
like this is just not how normalpeople live.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
You just have such an immense amount of trust in me.
I just think that's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, I mean.
But the thing is is like whywouldn't I trust you with real
estate decisions?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
True that Right.
Yeah, you're in healthcare.
I trust you with our healthcare.
Yeah, exactly, that's true.
I picked the health insurance Iget that.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Right.
And so, yeah, like, yeah,obviously, trust is important,
but like, yeah, like I said,once you get there like it's
really what I think with a lotof relationships it's the first
part, that's the fun part, andthen it kind of gets more
challenging as you go.
And I think in real estate it'sthe other way around the hard
stuff beyond, like the thirddate, the hard stuff is all
(32:48):
front loaded.
It's the back end, that'samazing.
Stuff is all front loaded, it'sthe back end, that's amazing.
And so you sort of have to havethe courage and the patience to
like, take the long view andthen enjoy the ride on the back
end.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
and so, yeah, that would be my takeaway these are
so great and like I just thinkthat it's kind of fun to let
people in, because I do talkabout how real estate can build
your dream life.
And again, we don't always goon these rides by ourselves,
solo, so it's been fun becauseyou've been along for the ride.
(33:19):
And it hasn't always beensmooth, it has definitely been
bumpy, but I think at the end,like you and I are so incredibly
I hate this word, but blessed-to like live the life that we
live, and I really think so muchof it is not only real estate,
but it was also.
you were such a good real estatepartner.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Oh, that's sweet, I like that.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And so I.
There was a major motivationfor like I know we're just
chatting over lunch I'm like wehave to record this podcast
episode because I think that wedon't talk often enough about
the support system behind therealtor and people always ask me
how do you do everything thatyou do?
And I say I have an incrediblysupportive partner at home, and
(34:07):
if you don't have that, it'svery hard.
I think it's not possible butit's very hard to build your
dream life through real estateif you don't have support at
home.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I literally cannot understand how that would work
if she was enjoying even amodicum of professional success.
Right, like it just isn't.
I mean forget, like women can'thave it, all kind of stuff Like
it's just not possible.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
No, the mental load, the time, the demands, the
energy demands.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Well, it's like how they would hit at the same time.
I mean, it's not even likethere's not enough hours in a
day, it's you just can't be intwo places at once.
Like, yeah, I think that's,that would be brutally hard,
brutally hard.
And so I think that's the,that's the, the, the potential
and the peril is being able toexplain to the man in your life
(35:10):
around.
Listen, this is going torequire a lot from you, but,
like, let me tell you all thecool parts about this, because
there's quite a few.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
There are really quite a few.
Well, thank you so much forjumping on the Happy Agent Co
podcast.
You are an amazing partner andI couldn't have done any of this
without you.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Oh, that's cute.
Happy to help, as always.
I love you.
I love you too.
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