October 7, 2025 • 38 mins
To celebrate 13 years married, I’m replaying a listener-favorite: a candid conversation with my husband, Andrew, on what it’s really like to love (and live with) a real estate agent. We talk about the unpredictable hours, money-time tradeoffs, redefining roles at home, and the trust + communication it takes to build a life—and a business—together.
In this episode, we unpack:
- Time works differently in real estate — why “money hours” (negotiations, deadline sprints) change calendars, weekends, and vacations.
- Roles that actually work — ditching default gender scripts for a flexible, strengths-based partnership.
- Stop forcing “normal” — how trying to fit a realtor life into a 9–5 mold breeds resentment.
- The upside of embracing it — freedom, big swings (hello, month-long trips), and shared wins when you play the long game.
- Trust & boundaries — how discipline, systems, and clear expectations make love + listings coexist.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So today I have a very special episode for you.
This is actually a replay fromValentine's Day, because today
is my husband, andrew, and my 13year anniversary.
Yes, it has been a wild ride,so I thought, to celebrate, I
would replay our episode where Iinterview him on what it is
like being married to a realtor,which, honestly, is a challenge
(00:59):
a lot of the time.
So, without further ado, hereis the episode.
I am so excited because I amhere with my life partner,
andrew, and we are bringing youa Valentine's Day special with
my boo.
I wanted to do an episode on.
I wanted to do an episode onthe things that Andrew has
(01:20):
learned being a non-real estatespouse.
We've been together for 16years, which is bananas, and I
have been a real estate agentfor almost 21.
So we definitely, I think, area good example of a real estate
relationship.
(01:40):
You've had many real estatewidowhoods on the weekend and
the nights, so hello.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Hi, a pleasure to be joining you today.
It's probably worth actuallypointing out on the front end
that anything I talk about is anexperience being a cisgendered
man married to a cisgenderrealtor woman, and so I have a
feeling a lot of this stuffprobably doesn't shake out the
same way if you're like a morelike trad wife married to a
(02:09):
husband who's a realtor, who'salso a primary breadwinner.
But I mean, I also think that'skind of the fun.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So Right, okay.
Well, we're here because we areempower women who are going to
step into their CEO era.
So we're going to guess herethat these women are like bosses
, like they're they're CEOs oftheir business.
So, let's just go under thatassumption.
I mean, I'm going to go underthat assumption because that's
(02:34):
what I am, all right.
So let's talk about.
You have four lessons for us,or four things you have learned
about being a real estate spouseor partner.
And you, first of all, I knowyou love to talk and I love that
about you, so, like you're, Icall him my Austropedia, because
(02:55):
he knows everything.
And you have four things thatyou have learned, or four
takeaways, and I'm reallyexcited to get into them.
So the first one I'm going togo ahead and let you dive into
that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Sure, I think the biggest adjustment coming into a
relationship with a realtor andthen having spent 16 years with
you, is that realtors look attime differently than the rest
of us.
Moguls and kind of what I meanby that is, I think the vast
majority of us work Mondaythrough Friday, you know, eight
(03:29):
to five or whatever, and that'sjust not the reality of being a
realtor.
You know, not only are thehours non-traditional, but
they're also unpredictable.
And I vividly remember you andI going out to lunch at I think
it was like a Chinese place inManchester and the table there
(03:50):
were two tables over for us.
There was a woman talking onher cell phone and a man sitting
across from her staring glumlydown at his food and a man
sitting across from her staringglumly down at his food.
And I could just tell Like Iknew that.
Look, I knew that dinner.
I knew exactly what was goingon.
That was an act of negotiationand she was haggling it out in
the middle of their date night.
(04:11):
And I think that's like.
The first takeaway is that youhave to be very aware of the
fact that realtors just look attime differently.
The hours are not only uniquebut they're unpredictable.
But more than that, the amountof money they make per hour they
(04:31):
spend while working is sowildly different than the rest
of us.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Right, especially like active negotiation.
That's like oh yeah like amillion making time like a
million dollar listing.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You're probably pocketing close to a thousand
dollars for every hour you workon that listing, right, and
that's just.
I mean I'd like to think I'mfairly successful and well
compensated, but like I'm not inthat level and I frankly know
very few people that are so thatrecognition of how much
(05:08):
different that truly is, it'shard to understate, it's hard to
overstate and it's one of thosethings where you know you tell
somebody oh yeah, I work weirdhours, they go, yeah, okay, fine
.
Those things where you know youtell somebody oh yeah, I work
weird hours, they go yeah, okay,fine.
And they're like no, but youdon't understand their hours are
very, very weird.
And so you kind of have to beflexible on that front but also
(05:32):
recognize that it opens up a lotof opportunities.
And because it's not just hours, it's also calendars, right,
like you know, the nine to fivejob tends to come with two days
off once a week and two weeksoff for vacation.
Obviously, that's not therealtor lifestyle.
Plenty of realtors can besuccessful and productive
working three or four days aweek, and then they can take
months off, right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Or they can go on vacation and sell a house.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, one of the one of the things I found this was
less you and more of the agentsin your brokerage, but it was
like they had an amount of moneythey wanted to make and once
they made it, they just sort ofchecked out for the rest of the
year.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I don't recommend that as a strategy.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
No, it was a bad strategy, but I mean it was like
I vividly remember you grindingyour teeth in December because
you had like million dollarleads coming in and like
everyone was like, well, I'mdone for the year, I'm filled up
.
Yeah, good, I'm all right.
So I'm, like you know, wrappingpresents at home by myself and
you're out doing listings, buthey, it was a great close to the
year so I know I couldn'tbelieve that really, like you,
(06:33):
guys, don't want this I'll sellthe house myself and so, yeah,
like that's like one of the, Ithink, most empowering parts of
the job is that it allowsrealtors to kind of almost check
out of society, which is wild.
Like there's just not that manyjobs.
(06:54):
I mean, I I guess, like youknow, linemen that go out and
repair power lines after storms,like they kind of have like a
life like that, I guess, uh,there's just not a lot of jobs
that do that, and and because itis so outside of the rest of
the economy that I don't knowthat most people really
appreciate how incrediblydifferent it is.
(07:16):
Because it's, you know, it'slike I said, it's one of the
things where you hear it andyou're like, oh yeah, I get that
.
It's like, no, you don't, youdon't really get it.
It's, it's so, so, so muchdifferent than than you even
think.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, I think like you're really trading time for
money, and there's this calculusthat has to occur not just with
you as the real estate agent,but it also has to occur with
you, with your partner and yourfamily, like is this worth
taking five?
(07:45):
hours away from family time ortime with my husband and like
that's definitely a calculus,that like came into play.
That was very different thanwhen I was just single, lindsey,
because I remember I'd beshowing homes like 11 pm and it
was not a big deal.
But once I had a husband andonce I had kids it like totally
flipped the script.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, I mean, we were , you know, when we were in DC
and we lived next to a couple,one of whom was a realtor as
well, and I remember talking tothe husband about the fact that
his husband wasn't there at thisparty on a Sunday and I was
like, oh, let me guess he waslike he's like, oh, let me guess
.
He was like yeah, yeah, yeah,he's going to open houses with a
client.
I was like, oh, I get that.
I was like, did he give youlike the speech?
And he says, what's the speech?
(08:22):
I was like, well, lindsay waslike it was like terrible when
we first started dating, becauseit'd be like yeah, I really
want to spend time with you thisweekend, because I worked
Monday through Fridays.
I want to spend important to me, you are a priority, and if it
is important to you that wespend time together this weekend
(08:42):
, then that is what we shall do.
However, the clients I'm goingout with are looking up to $1.5
million and so, therefore, if Isell them a house this weekend,
that's $50,000 I can put in mypocket and we can go to Mexico
for two weeks.
So I will leave it to you.
Would you rather me spend theweekend with you here on the
couch, or would you like me togo make $50,000?
(09:04):
That's manipulative.
Yeah, you are horrible.
And so, yeah, and that's justthe worst part is is like, yeah,
I'd argue it is a littlemanipulative, but it's not wrong
, and that's like I think kindof the problem is it's not like
it's a miscommunication, it'snot like it's a structural
(09:25):
choice, it's just the nature ofthe job.
It's facts.
Yeah, it's facts.
It's just that it creates a setof imperatives that are
unrecognizable, and it can be alittle challenging not to resent
the realtor for the realitiesof their job.
Those are the facts of thesituation.
(09:45):
You didn't create them, youdidn't manipulate them.
It's just the way it works.
And so, even though I might befrustrated with that kind of
thing, it's not really fair forme to get frustrated at you.
It's just the nature of whatyou do, and so truly embracing
that level of difference is achallenge.
(10:05):
But I think once you can riseto it, like you realize there's
some immense upsides to it.
You know, like I said, like thethousand dollars an hour stuff,
or the fact that you canliterally go on month-long
vacations and not sacrifice yourprofessional output.
There's so much freedom.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, we would come up to our vacation house a lot
for a month at a time, which wasso cool.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, and I think it's one of those things where
working remote's great, but ifyou're both working remote from
(11:08):
your vacation house, there's alimit to how vacation-y it feels
.
But like the fact that I couldwork remote and you didn't have
to really work at all was wasamazing.
It truly felt like a realvacation and that's, I think,
like something really specialand precious.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, that is really cool.
As you were talking, I wasthinking that, like you do have
to have trust in your realtorpartner that they are being
considerate and puttingboundaries around their time.
Like you kind of have to have atrust that they're not just
like working all the time towork all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I mean, I think , I mean I think that's just as
somebody that's not a realtorbut I feel very like exposed to
the, to the life, like I thinkthat's one of the things that's
really challenging about, like Icouldn't be a realtor, and I
think the reason is because itrequires an immense amount of
self-discipline to not loseyourself in the job.
Like I don't know of many jobswhere you can literally work
(12:04):
yourself to death.
You can do that as a realtor.
I also don't know of as manyjobs where you can embrace it as
an identity and not make anymoney, right?
I mean, no, I'm really.
I know realtors.
You know realtors everybodylistening to this knows realtors
where they don't actually sellany houses, they're not actually
doing any prospecting, they'renot actually doing any market
research, but they just tellpeople they're realtors and then
(12:27):
they like kind of like drivearound and drink coffee.
And so I think, realtor, sayingyou're a realtor is like saying
you're an entrepreneur, likeyeah, the bar is stupendously
low, but the barriers to successare incredibly high, and
whereas, you know, it's veryhard to become a lawyer, but
like, once you are a lawyer,there's sort of like a limit to
how much of a fuck up you can be, and like a realtor is the
(12:48):
opposite.
It's extremely easy to become arealtor.
It's very hard to be a good one, and that puts a lot of
pressure, I think, on realtorsto treat themselves as
professionals versus having itbe like a cozy identity they can
, just as an excuse to notactually doing something with
their lives, and so thediscipline required to say nope,
(13:11):
I'm going to.
I am going to work my spherefrom 9am to 1pm Tuesday,
wednesday and Thursday, and thenI'm going to preview some open
houses Thursday and Friday.
And you know, having that kindof like a cadence to your life,
Like I think it's reallyimportant, not just because I
mean that's how you become asuccessful realtor is having
that level of discipline, but italso allows other people in
(13:31):
your life to start to see it asa job that it is Like.
I think it would be a lotharder for me to be as
understanding around your needto be 24-7 available during
active negotiations if I didn'talso see you putting in the like
base level background work, um,that had to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, like I'm treating it like a real job yeah
, yeah, it's so, it's the.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I think it's kind of funny because it's I know it's
the part that realtors don'tlike to do, but it's the stuff
that they don't like to do thatnot only generates a platform
for future success, but alsoallows other people in their
lives to see it as a professionthat it is versus.
You guys are just waiting forlottery tickets to drop out of
the sky Because it can look likethat.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It really can sometimes, I know.
Okay, so that's point numberone, which was their
relationship to time and I wouldeven say money kind of changes
a little bit.
All right, let's go to yourpoint number two.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Ah, yeah, heteronormative goes out the
window.
So I know that in friends thatI have, where both the husband
and wife you know cisgendernormative stuff they're both in
the workforce and at night, youknow, the husband does the
little projects or contacts thecontractor to do the update to
(14:51):
the bathroom and the wife cooksdinner, um, and then they both
lay down and go to sleep at 10o'clock at night and then wake
up the next morning, get dressedand go to the office.
Like that's just not how lifelooks with a realtor.
Um, the cause, a lot of thingschange.
Change like you handle allpoint contact with contractors,
(15:12):
right, um, and that's so funny.
And the few times you don't, itdoes not, does not go well,
like at all.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
and so there's negotiation involved.
I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh yeah, no, no, like um the uh.
Oh yeah, we'll get to that onein a second.
But like yeah, it's sort of.
So I think what's interestingis that being a successful
realtor forces you to be verygood at conflict resolution, be
very good at contractnegotiation and really
understand home mechanics.
I mean, it's kind of like homeec on steroids in a way, and so,
(15:47):
as, like you know, the quoteunquote man in the relationship
like I'm, you know, if I wantthe bathroom to be changed, it
doesn't make sense for me tocall a contractor because I'm
not going to know what the rightplumbing fixture is, I'm not
going to know the right price.
I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I'm not going to know what kind of plumbing we have.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Right, it's like it's white, and then when you poop
in it, it like makes it go away,and that's the extent of I
truly don't know the brand oftoilet we have in our house and
so um, like, and, and that's thething, it's in a typical
relationship that therelationships that I've seen
it's the men that run point onall of that, whereas the women
(16:25):
run point on the moretraditional domestic stuff,
which is laundry and cooking andshopping.
But and here's the weird partthat stuff the laundry, the
cooking and the shopping thoseare daily tasks, whereas a lot
of home maintenance stuff ismore strategic tasks, and so the
daily tasks have to be donedaily, regardless of the
(16:48):
circumstance.
So it actually doesn't makesense for you to run point on
shopping and cooking, becauseyou might be pulled into a
listing presentation, you mighthave to go on a showing, and so,
whereas you're now far morequalified to deal with a lot of
the more traditionally maleactivities in a relationship, I
(17:09):
have to get better at thetraditionally female ones,
because I can't expect you to behome at night to cook dinner
every night, like.
I can't expect you to be able tohave the time to, like you know
, do the dishes in the eveningor put the kids to bed, and so,
like you know, our, our genderroles, on our relationships
don't look like normal genderroles.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Um and you know it's pretty fluid.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It's very fluid and so like it's a little odd,
because it's like, at the dropof the hat, I have to be Mr Mom,
um, or I have to be Mr Bob, andyou have to be Mr Dad, exactly,
and um, but there's, there'swonderful upsides, like I mean,
one of my favorite memoriesabout being married to a realtor
was when we were looking atbuying that car in DC and I re,
(17:57):
I forget what the car was, but Iremember it was in an infinity
and we go and we test drive it.
And I was like, yeah, I kind oflike this car.
And the salesman was this likekind of pudgy 50-year-old dude
and he sort of slaps me on theshoulder and he's like, well,
why don't you and I go in theback and we'll go talk numbers
while the little lady gets a cupof coffee?
And I remember just smiling andsaying, oh, that's not how this
works, I don't talk numbers,I'm going to go get a cup of
(18:19):
coffee.
And then you and he disappearedinto the back room and then 10
minutes later later you came outand the guy was like sweating,
his tie was undone and he wasbreathing heavy.
No, no, no, but you're justscreaming and you're just like,
yeah, we couldn't get there onnumbers.
And it was like I, yeah, it'slike I don't even want to know
what you did to that poor guy inthat back room, but like I
(18:40):
think you took 10 years off ofhis life, um, but you know, we
didn't.
We didn't buy the car because,like I don't deal with the
negotiations, because why thehell would I?
You do this for a living.
You're way better at it than Iam, and so, yeah, I think that's
.
The other piece is just how you, just in the same way, you have
to let go of your expectationsaround how time works.
You have to let go of yourexpectations with how genders
(19:02):
and gender roles work, because,but it's not a sacrifice you
have to make, it's an adjustmentyou have to accommodate,
because, like, once you do letgo of it, like it's not, like I
want to do negotiations, likeyou're better at them, and
because of that fact, wepurchase properties for less, we
(19:23):
buy cars for less, like I canpoint to actual dollar savings
that you were able to wring outof processes that I couldn't,
and so you know, yeah, so sweetto hear yeah.
So, in stepping back and lettingyou run point on that, it makes
for a better life for us tolead, like if I were to hang on
to those tasks out of someantiquated notion of what my
(19:45):
role in the relationship is.
Um, then, like we wouldn't havethese savings.
Um, instead, I go home and Ibake sourdough bread for the
kids sandwiches I mean, you alsoknow how to like take apart a
jeep.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We have a few things well, I guess that's actually.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
That's actually kind of probably a good point too.
Like when I was younger, I meanI did build a jeep from.
I used to smoke Marlboros, Iused to, I used to drive, I used
to be a whitewater raft guide,and so I feel like one of the
reasons I'm so cool with notgiving a shit about gender roles
(20:22):
is like I was so over the topin my like early twenties around
, like being a dude's dude, likethat.
It's like there's nothing leftto prove.
Like I've owned Miatas proudly,because, after you've built
your own Jeep, like there'snothing left to prove on that
front.
So yeah, and so because, becauseI'm very secure in that,
(20:44):
because I've already had accessto that, like it was very easy
for me.
So I'm not saying it's it's,I'm not saying it's easy, and I
could see how, if you didn'thave that experience as like a
cisgendered male in your earlieryears, it might be hard to feel
comfortable like walking awayfrom those expectations now.
But I'm very lucky because Ialready was able to live so high
(21:04):
off the charts on one hand,that letting go of all of it now
and just you know, being theguy that you know tucks the kids
in at night and bakes the breadfor the sandwiches in the
morning, like I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I got nothing left to prove.
Well, I love you for it.
Your flexibility and just notneeding to be the man of the
house is like one of your bestqualities, to be honest.
Honest, you're super flexibleand you're just a really great
life partner.
All right, so heteronormity outthe window.
I think we got that one naileddown.
(21:36):
Uh, all right, what's pointnumber three for you?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
um, you can drive yourself crazy trying to make a
life with a realtor look like anormal life, and I've, I've seen
it happen.
Like I think back to that guyin that restaurant staring
glumly at his plate.
I know it was really sad.
I almost like just went and putmy arm around his shoulder and
be like I feel your brother,I've been there, but the reality
(22:03):
is that, like if you try totreat a realtor like a typical
woman, it won't work and it can.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
You just set yourself up for disappointment I've seen
it backfire too with agentsthat have been at my brokerage,
where the husband is not okaywith their wife being a realtor.
And just again, going back topoint number two, it's like they
wanted her to play a particularrole and they wanted to put
that round peg in a round hole,but that hole did not
(22:36):
accommodate who, that woman wasand I think it's.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think it's like a hard time in our society where I
feel, like the last 20 years,like at cultural level, women
have been given a path toself-actualization that is
independent of others.
Right, like we now have aconcept I mean, it's not widely
adopted and there's alwayschallenges and let's not talk
about an election but like thereis now at least a.
(23:02):
There is an archetype, there'sa model for a woman that lives a
full and complete life inisolation.
Like you do not need a man forfulfillment.
You might want one and somepeople might prefer one.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh, I, I like, I like mine.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, I'm a keeper, I'm into mine, but, but it's no
longer necessary.
And I think the one of the umand I think one of the
challenges is I think, in alarge, large way, what society
expects of men is actually stilldefined through their
(23:35):
relationship with other people,not in a good or healthy way,
right?
Like you know, sexual dominanceis like part of a masculine
identity thing and like that'sbad, but like it still implies
that there's at least somebodythere that you're dominating.
And so I don't know that therereally are great archetypes for
men where they can get a senseof fulfillment or can look to a
(24:00):
role model and say I don't needsomeone else in my life to reach
that level of success else inmy life to reach that level of
success.
Even the real, the high-flyingtech, bro types things, they're
never alone.
(24:20):
You always see them with thesupermodels.
Even the ones where it's notequal, even the ones where it's
abusive, there is still someoneelse there.
And so when you're with arealtor who can like up and
disappear at any moment becausethey're going to go make $50,000
in the next four hours, there'snot really a place to put that,
I think, in most concepts ofmasculine identity that I have
(24:44):
exposure to.
And so if you are trying tomake your life with the realtor
in your life, with the realtorin your life, fit really any
archetypical relationshipdynamic that I'm familiar with,
it just doesn't work, and so youwind up with resentment.
(25:07):
Um, because, you know, not onlyis the wife not playing the
traditional gender role of youknow, meeting you at the door
with the next drink and thehome-cooked meal, especially
when you introduce kids rightwhen you introduce kids.
Yeah, it's like what, like, onceyou realize that like she's
just never gonna be able to bethat person, um, like, she's
just never going to be able tobe that person, um like there's
(25:30):
just no.
I mean I'm sorry to interrupt,but then add in like she might
make more than you like yeah,you know, it's kind of funny,
like I actually I don't knowthat that's as big a thing as it
might seem.
I I because I've seen realtorrelationships blow up too, and I
don't because the thing is youguys don't make money like
(25:51):
normal people.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
We aren't normal people.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
No, I mean, like every two weeks I get a little
piece of paper that feeds myvalidation because it has a
number on it and it's a funnumber to look at, and you don't
get that every two weeks, likenow.
Every you know few weeks, youget a random piece of number a
random piece of paper that comesout of the blue and has an
astronomically high number, butit's like at no point, like I
(26:16):
still don't know what you makeevery year.
I don't think I've ever in our16 years together, I don't
actually think I can name apoint in time where I could tell
you how much money you madeover the course of a year.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I mean to be honest, I can't even tell you Because it
doesn't matter.
Even after my taxes are done.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
It's such a fuzzy number because A it happens at
random, so the money coming inis unpredictable and all over
the map and you guys carry somany expenses that it's top line
.
The money that my company paysme I put in my pocket.
I don't have to go out and thenspend dollars on Zillow leads
to go get another paycheck.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
There's a whole profit loss involved.
It's not a straight salary.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So I've often thought that the issue that men have
with realtors and feelingthreatened by realtors is less
around the fact they make moremoney, because, even if it's
true it's not like younecessarily are exposed to that,
I think it comes down tothey're not playing the role
that society tells you theyshould play and they're not
around, so you can't play therole that society tells you you
(27:20):
should play, and so I think it'seasier to resent realtors for
their absence than it is fortheir income.
And so yeah, and that's theproblem, it's like if that's
important to you or if that'swhat you're looking for in a
relationship or in a dynamic,like it's just not going to work
because the nature of the beastmeans that you're just not
(27:41):
going to have those cards toplay.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Mm-hmm, if you're listening to this and thinking,
I wish someone would just helpme figure this out.
That is literally what I do.
I offer one-on-one coaching foragents, team leads and
brokerage owners who want abusiness that actually fits
(28:04):
their life no trendy tactics.
That actually fits their life.
No trendy tactics, no burnout,just clarity, systems and
support.
Book your free discovery callat happyagentco.
Slash coaching Also.
Link is in the show notes.
Now back to the episode.
It was fascinating.
We just got into likemasculinity, femininity.
(28:26):
So you're so deep, I love you.
Okay, one more point.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah, so um .
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Point number four.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, this is sort of like the happy note to end on
for all three.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
This is like the cherry on top of that on
Wednesday, Sunday, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think it takes, I think, a certain amount of
strength.
It takes a certain amount ofcourage to truly embrace the
fact that it's just not going tobe what anyone you know you
yourself, society, your parentstold you.
Your relationship is going tobe like your.
Your relationship will neverwork the way others do or your
(29:05):
life or your life, yeah, or yeahexactly, or your life.
It's just, it's just not in thecards, it's not going to happen,
um and like.
Once you accept that and I'mnot saying it's easy because
it's hard and I can see why Ireally understand.
I never struggled with itpersonally, but I can definitely
see why other people would andI don't resent them for that.
(29:28):
I mean, that's another, I think, important thing to point out,
which is if your spouse or yourboyfriend is like struggling
with coming to grips with this,it's probably worth being a
little bit patient andrecognizing exactly how much of
a shift or how much of a changethe lifestyle asks of him, and
(29:52):
recognize the fact that he mightnot be he's probably not aware
of it, like.
It's easy for me to say thiswith 16 years of experience.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
When you met me when I was a realtor.
So like there's also that whereyou've been, maybe you've been
in a relationship and you becomea realtor and that person's
known you before realtoring ohyeah, that'd be horrible, right,
it'd be so hard.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
God, yeah, yeah, and so I think that's like the key
thing is is, like you know,having a little patience would
probably go a long way, andrecognizing that the, the, the
guy in your life might not evenbe aware of why it's so
uncomfortable and certainlywon't be able to articulate it,
um, and so like having somepatience on that front or having
(30:31):
a therapist.
Having a therapist that'd be agood niche is like a real
therapist you all need it.
Oh so bad that seriously wouldbe a good match they don't need
help.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
A realtor health crisis in our country right now
a realtor relationship coach.
That'd be really cool, would bereally cool, but maybe do you
want to do it.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We could do it together, that'd be fun but no,
and so I guess what the point ofit is is that, like the first
step is really the biggest andreally the hardest.
Like you got to make this hugejump.
You got to walk away fromeverything that like society has
told you that you should be,that they should be, that you
what.
You're sure you have to walkaway from a lot of stuff, but
once you do, there's all thisinsane upside.
(31:11):
Like I don't particularly likenegotiating for cars.
You view it as like arecreational hobby, I know.
So it's like, all of a suddenthere's all of this
heteronormative work that like,yeah, I might've found some
masculine sense of fulfillmentand performing, but at the same
time, like I felt like I enjoyedit.
And so once you get used to it,you're like, oh sweet, I don't
have to do this anymore.
(31:31):
That's awesome.
Taxes I don't know how to dotaxes.
I wouldn't even know where tostart with your numbers.
So this is great.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I'm so glad you're not involved.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh my God, that would be a terrible idea.
Or, you know, or like vacations, like, yeah, like when we were
talking about going to likeDenmark for six weeks with the
kids, like that's.
I mean I can't even begin toimagine how disruptive that
would be for the folks out therewith, I mean God, could you
imagine, especially in like atrades job where you couldn't go
(32:01):
remote?
I mean, like that kind of stuffis impossible, it would take
years of planning.
But for us it's like an impulsemove because of the nature of
your work.
And so I think, like withanything, there's always this
tension between the comfort andsafety of the known and the
thrill and the potential of theunknown.
Like that, I think that's partof the human experience.
(32:22):
Is like, how do you balancethose two things?
And just recognizing that beingwith a realtor is a is a
conscientious step into theunknown and it does require
courage and it does requireadjustments.
But once you make thatcommitment very, very early on
in the relationship, the backendis all upside, you know,
(32:45):
because once you get over thefact that, like, you're not
going to look like a traditionalguy to your friends, um, you
know now, from from that pointon.
It's all you know.
Denmark for six weeks andimpulse purchasing.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Getting a 32-foot RV.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Buying a 32.
Well, no, the one that reallygot me.
I talk about it with the kidsbecause I worry that the kids
look at our lives as like hownormal people live and they just
don't.
But you know, when I was and wetalked about this too when I
was out of college and waitingtables at one point, and I would
take my tips and I'd bring themhome every night and I'd tuck
them into this plastic cup I hadon my desk and I'd really hope
(33:22):
by the end of the month there'dbe enough cash in the cup to pay
the rent and pay all the bills.
And I'd like tuck the littledollars.
And I remember the feeling ofthe cup.
And then when you had the guycome into your office and asked
to sell this property and hesaid, asked you what he could
get for it.
And you said, listen, if we,you know, if we make some
upgrades, you can get x, if wejust stage it, you can get y.
And if you're cool with z, I'llwrite you a check right now.
(33:43):
And the guy's like, done, writeit up.
And you just impulse, purchasedthis house and and then we
bought the house and then itneeded a new faucet.
And you asked me if I could goinstall it and I said yeah, and
I go to the home Home Depot andI'm in the car with this new
faucet and this riding shotgunand I'm driving around the
neighborhood and then it hit me.
I didn't know where the housewas and we were both on the deed
(34:05):
right.
This was a house I owned and Ihad gone from stuffing dollar
bills in a plastic cup to paythe rent to literally misplacing
a house that I owned and thatwas.
I think that was the pointwhere it really hit me about
like this is just not how normalpeople live.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
You just have such an immense amount of trust in me.
I just think that's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, I mean.
But the thing is is like whywouldn't I trust you with real
estate decisions?
True that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Right, you're in healthcare.
I trust you with our health.
Yeah, exactly, I picked thehealth insurance.
Get that.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, that's true, like um, and so yeah, like, yeah
, I mean, obviously trust isimportant, but like, yeah, like
I said, once you get there, likeit's really what I think with a
lot of relationships it's thefirst part, that's the fun part,
and then it kind of gets morechallenging as you go.
And I think in real estate it'sthe other way around the the
hard stuff beyond, like thethird date, the hard stuff is
(34:59):
all front loaded.
It's the back end.
That's amazing.
And so you sort of have to havethe courage and the patience to
like, take the long view andthen enjoy the ride on the back
end.
And so, yeah, that would be mytakeaway.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
These are so great and like I just think that it's
kind of fun to let people in,because I do talk about how real
estate can build your dreamlife.
And again, we don't always goon these rides by ourselves,
solo, so it's been fun becauseyou've been along for the ride.
And it hasn't always beensmooth, it has definitely been
bumpy, but I think at the end,like you and I are so incredibly
(35:38):
I hate this word, but blessedto like live the life that we
live, and I really think so muchof it is not only real estate,
but it was also.
you were such a good real estatepartner.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Oh, that's sweet, I like that.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And so I.
There was a major motivationfor, like I know we were just
chatting over lunch and I'm likewe have to record this podcast
episode because I think that wedon't talk often enough about
the support system behind therealtor and people always ask me
how do you do everything thatyou do?
And I say I have an incrediblysupportive partner at home and
(36:19):
if you don't have that like,it's very hard.
I think it's not possible, butit's very hard to build your
dream life through real estateif you don't have support at
home.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
I mean I, if, if there was a, um, a woman in a
relationship whose husbandexpected her to be a traditional
woman, I don't, I literallycannot understand how that would
work if she was enjoying even amodicum of professional success
.
Right, like it, just it justisn't.
(36:51):
I mean forget.
Like women can't have it, allkind of stuff, like it's just
not possible.
Like no, the mental load, thetime like the hands the energy
demands and it's like, and howthey would, how they would hit
at the same time, like I mean,it's not even like there's not
enough hours in a day, it's youjust can't be in two places at
once, like it.
Yeah, I think that's that wouldbe brutally hard, brutally hard
, um, and so I think that's the,that's the, the potential and
(37:16):
the peril is being able toexplain to the, the man in your
life around.
Listen, this is going torequire a lot from you, but,
like, let me tell you all thecool parts about this, because
there's quite quite a few thereare really quite a few.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, thank you so much for jumping on the happy
agent co podcast.
You are an amazing partner andI couldn't have done any of this
without you oh, that's cute.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Happy to help, as always.
I love you.
I love you too.
So today I have a very special episode for you.
This is actually a replay fromValentine's Day, because today
is my husband, andrew, and my 13year anniversary.
Yes, it has been a wild ride,so I thought, to celebrate, I
would replay our episode where Iinterview him on what it is
like being married to a realtor,which, honestly, is a challenge
(00:59):
a lot of the time.
So, without further ado, hereis the episode.
I am so excited because I amhere with my life partner,
andrew, and we are bringing youa Valentine's Day special with
my boo.
I wanted to do an episode on.
I wanted to do an episode onthe things that Andrew has
(01:20):
learned being a non-real estatespouse.
We've been together for 16years, which is bananas, and I
have been a real estate agentfor almost 21.
So we definitely, I think, area good example of a real estate
relationship.
(01:40):
You've had many real estatewidowhoods on the weekend and
the nights, so hello.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Hi, a pleasure to be joining you today.
It's probably worth actuallypointing out on the front end
that anything I talk about is anexperience being a cisgendered
man married to a cisgenderrealtor woman, and so I have a
feeling a lot of this stuffprobably doesn't shake out the
same way if you're like a morelike trad wife married to a
(02:09):
husband who's a realtor, who'salso a primary breadwinner.
But I mean, I also think that'skind of the fun.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So Right, okay.
Well, we're here because we areempower women who are going to
step into their CEO era.
So we're going to guess herethat these women are like bosses
, like they're they're CEOs oftheir business.
So, let's just go under thatassumption.
I mean, I'm going to go underthat assumption because that's
(02:34):
what I am, all right.
So let's talk about.
You have four lessons for us,or four things you have learned
about being a real estate spouseor partner.
And you, first of all, I knowyou love to talk and I love that
about you, so, like you're, Icall him my Austropedia, because
(02:55):
he knows everything.
And you have four things thatyou have learned, or four
takeaways, and I'm reallyexcited to get into them.
So the first one I'm going togo ahead and let you dive into
that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Sure, I think the biggest adjustment coming into a
relationship with a realtor andthen having spent 16 years with
you, is that realtors look attime differently than the rest
of us.
Moguls and kind of what I meanby that is, I think the vast
majority of us work Mondaythrough Friday, you know, eight
(03:29):
to five or whatever, and that'sjust not the reality of being a
realtor.
You know, not only are thehours non-traditional, but
they're also unpredictable.
And I vividly remember you andI going out to lunch at I think
it was like a Chinese place inManchester and the table there
(03:50):
were two tables over for us.
There was a woman talking onher cell phone and a man sitting
across from her staring glumlydown at his food and a man
sitting across from her staringglumly down at his food.
And I could just tell Like Iknew that.
Look, I knew that dinner.
I knew exactly what was goingon.
That was an act of negotiationand she was haggling it out in
the middle of their date night.
(04:11):
And I think that's like.
The first takeaway is that youhave to be very aware of the
fact that realtors just look attime differently.
The hours are not only uniquebut they're unpredictable.
But more than that, the amountof money they make per hour they
(04:31):
spend while working is sowildly different than the rest
of us.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Right, especially like active negotiation.
That's like oh yeah like amillion making time like a
million dollar listing.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You're probably pocketing close to a thousand
dollars for every hour you workon that listing, right, and
that's just.
I mean I'd like to think I'mfairly successful and well
compensated, but like I'm not inthat level and I frankly know
very few people that are so thatrecognition of how much
(05:08):
different that truly is, it'shard to understate, it's hard to
overstate and it's one of thosethings where you know you tell
somebody oh yeah, I work weirdhours, they go, yeah, okay, fine
.
Those things where you know youtell somebody oh yeah, I work
weird hours, they go yeah, okay,fine.
And they're like no, but youdon't understand their hours are
very, very weird.
And so you kind of have to beflexible on that front but also
(05:32):
recognize that it opens up a lotof opportunities.
And because it's not just hours, it's also calendars, right,
like you know, the nine to fivejob tends to come with two days
off once a week and two weeksoff for vacation.
Obviously, that's not therealtor lifestyle.
Plenty of realtors can besuccessful and productive
working three or four days aweek, and then they can take
months off, right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Or they can go on vacation and sell a house.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, one of the one of the things I found this was
less you and more of the agentsin your brokerage, but it was
like they had an amount of moneythey wanted to make and once
they made it, they just sort ofchecked out for the rest of the
year.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I don't recommend that as a strategy.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
No, it was a bad strategy, but I mean it was like
I vividly remember you grindingyour teeth in December because
you had like million dollarleads coming in and like
everyone was like, well, I'mdone for the year, I'm filled up
.
Yeah, good, I'm all right.
So I'm, like you know, wrappingpresents at home by myself and
you're out doing listings, buthey, it was a great close to the
year so I know I couldn'tbelieve that really, like you,
(06:33):
guys, don't want this I'll sellthe house myself and so, yeah,
like that's like one of the, Ithink, most empowering parts of
the job is that it allowsrealtors to kind of almost check
out of society, which is wild.
Like there's just not that manyjobs.
(06:54):
I mean, I I guess, like youknow, linemen that go out and
repair power lines after storms,like they kind of have like a
life like that, I guess, uh,there's just not a lot of jobs
that do that, and and because itis so outside of the rest of
the economy that I don't knowthat most people really
appreciate how incrediblydifferent it is.
(07:16):
Because it's, you know, it'slike I said, it's one of the
things where you hear it andyou're like, oh yeah, I get that
.
It's like, no, you don't, youdon't really get it.
It's, it's so, so, so muchdifferent than than you even
think.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, I think like you're really trading time for
money, and there's this calculusthat has to occur not just with
you as the real estate agent,but it also has to occur with
you, with your partner and yourfamily, like is this worth
taking five?
(07:45):
hours away from family time ortime with my husband and like
that's definitely a calculus,that like came into play.
That was very different thanwhen I was just single, lindsey,
because I remember I'd beshowing homes like 11 pm and it
was not a big deal.
But once I had a husband andonce I had kids it like totally
flipped the script.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, I mean, we were , you know, when we were in DC
and we lived next to a couple,one of whom was a realtor as
well, and I remember talking tothe husband about the fact that
his husband wasn't there at thisparty on a Sunday and I was
like, oh, let me guess he waslike he's like, oh, let me guess
.
He was like yeah, yeah, yeah,he's going to open houses with a
client.
I was like, oh, I get that.
I was like, did he give youlike the speech?
And he says, what's the speech?
(08:22):
I was like, well, lindsay waslike it was like terrible when
we first started dating, becauseit'd be like yeah, I really
want to spend time with you thisweekend, because I worked
Monday through Fridays.
I want to spend important to me, you are a priority, and if it
is important to you that wespend time together this weekend
(08:42):
, then that is what we shall do.
However, the clients I'm goingout with are looking up to $1.5
million and so, therefore, if Isell them a house this weekend,
that's $50,000 I can put in mypocket and we can go to Mexico
for two weeks.
So I will leave it to you.
Would you rather me spend theweekend with you here on the
couch, or would you like me togo make $50,000?
(09:04):
That's manipulative.
Yeah, you are horrible.
And so, yeah, and that's justthe worst part is is like, yeah,
I'd argue it is a littlemanipulative, but it's not wrong
, and that's like I think kindof the problem is it's not like
it's a miscommunication, it'snot like it's a structural
(09:25):
choice, it's just the nature ofthe job.
It's facts.
Yeah, it's facts.
It's just that it creates a setof imperatives that are
unrecognizable, and it can be alittle challenging not to resent
the realtor for the realitiesof their job.
Those are the facts of thesituation.
(09:45):
You didn't create them, youdidn't manipulate them.
It's just the way it works.
And so, even though I might befrustrated with that kind of
thing, it's not really fair forme to get frustrated at you.
It's just the nature of whatyou do, and so truly embracing
that level of difference is achallenge.
(10:05):
But I think once you can riseto it, like you realize there's
some immense upsides to it.
You know, like I said, like thethousand dollars an hour stuff,
or the fact that you canliterally go on month-long
vacations and not sacrifice yourprofessional output.
There's so much freedom.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, we would come up to our vacation house a lot
for a month at a time, which wasso cool.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, and I think it's one of those things where
working remote's great, but ifyou're both working remote from
(11:08):
your vacation house, there's alimit to how vacation-y it feels
.
But like the fact that I couldwork remote and you didn't have
to really work at all was wasamazing.
It truly felt like a realvacation and that's, I think,
like something really specialand precious.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, that is really cool.
As you were talking, I wasthinking that, like you do have
to have trust in your realtorpartner that they are being
considerate and puttingboundaries around their time.
Like you kind of have to have atrust that they're not just
like working all the time towork all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I mean, I think , I mean I think that's just as
somebody that's not a realtorbut I feel very like exposed to
the, to the life, like I thinkthat's one of the things that's
really challenging about, like Icouldn't be a realtor, and I
think the reason is because itrequires an immense amount of
self-discipline to not loseyourself in the job.
Like I don't know of many jobswhere you can literally work
(12:04):
yourself to death.
You can do that as a realtor.
I also don't know of as manyjobs where you can embrace it as
an identity and not make anymoney, right?
I mean, no, I'm really.
I know realtors.
You know realtors everybodylistening to this knows realtors
where they don't actually sellany houses, they're not actually
doing any prospecting, they'renot actually doing any market
research, but they just tellpeople they're realtors and then
(12:27):
they like kind of like drivearound and drink coffee.
And so I think, realtor, sayingyou're a realtor is like saying
you're an entrepreneur, likeyeah, the bar is stupendously
low, but the barriers to successare incredibly high, and
whereas, you know, it's veryhard to become a lawyer, but
like, once you are a lawyer,there's sort of like a limit to
how much of a fuck up you can be, and like a realtor is the
(12:48):
opposite.
It's extremely easy to become arealtor.
It's very hard to be a good one, and that puts a lot of
pressure, I think, on realtorsto treat themselves as
professionals versus having itbe like a cozy identity they can
, just as an excuse to notactually doing something with
their lives, and so thediscipline required to say nope,
(13:11):
I'm going to.
I am going to work my spherefrom 9am to 1pm Tuesday,
wednesday and Thursday, and thenI'm going to preview some open
houses Thursday and Friday.
And you know, having that kindof like a cadence to your life,
Like I think it's reallyimportant, not just because I
mean that's how you become asuccessful realtor is having
that level of discipline, but italso allows other people in
(13:31):
your life to start to see it asa job that it is Like.
I think it would be a lotharder for me to be as
understanding around your needto be 24-7 available during
active negotiations if I didn'talso see you putting in the like
base level background work, um,that had to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, like I'm treating it like a real job yeah
, yeah, it's so, it's the.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I think it's kind of funny because it's I know it's
the part that realtors don'tlike to do, but it's the stuff
that they don't like to do thatnot only generates a platform
for future success, but alsoallows other people in their
lives to see it as a professionthat it is versus.
You guys are just waiting forlottery tickets to drop out of
the sky Because it can look likethat.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It really can sometimes, I know.
Okay, so that's point numberone, which was their
relationship to time and I wouldeven say money kind of changes
a little bit.
All right, let's go to yourpoint number two.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Ah, yeah, heteronormative goes out the
window.
So I know that in friends thatI have, where both the husband
and wife you know cisgendernormative stuff they're both in
the workforce and at night, youknow, the husband does the
little projects or contacts thecontractor to do the update to
(14:51):
the bathroom and the wife cooksdinner, um, and then they both
lay down and go to sleep at 10o'clock at night and then wake
up the next morning, get dressedand go to the office.
Like that's just not how lifelooks with a realtor.
Um, the cause, a lot of thingschange.
Change like you handle allpoint contact with contractors,
(15:12):
right, um, and that's so funny.
And the few times you don't, itdoes not, does not go well,
like at all.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
and so there's negotiation involved.
I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh yeah, no, no, like um the uh.
Oh yeah, we'll get to that onein a second.
But like yeah, it's sort of.
So I think what's interestingis that being a successful
realtor forces you to be verygood at conflict resolution, be
very good at contractnegotiation and really
understand home mechanics.
I mean, it's kind of like homeec on steroids in a way, and so,
(15:47):
as, like you know, the quoteunquote man in the relationship
like I'm, you know, if I wantthe bathroom to be changed, it
doesn't make sense for me tocall a contractor because I'm
not going to know what the rightplumbing fixture is, I'm not
going to know the right price.
I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I'm not going to know what kind of plumbing we have.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Right, it's like it's white, and then when you poop
in it, it like makes it go away,and that's the extent of I
truly don't know the brand oftoilet we have in our house and
so um, like, and, and that's thething, it's in a typical
relationship that therelationships that I've seen
it's the men that run point onall of that, whereas the women
(16:25):
run point on the moretraditional domestic stuff,
which is laundry and cooking andshopping.
But and here's the weird partthat stuff the laundry, the
cooking and the shopping thoseare daily tasks, whereas a lot
of home maintenance stuff ismore strategic tasks, and so the
daily tasks have to be donedaily, regardless of the
(16:48):
circumstance.
So it actually doesn't makesense for you to run point on
shopping and cooking, becauseyou might be pulled into a
listing presentation, you mighthave to go on a showing, and so,
whereas you're now far morequalified to deal with a lot of
the more traditionally maleactivities in a relationship, I
(17:09):
have to get better at thetraditionally female ones,
because I can't expect you to behome at night to cook dinner
every night, like.
I can't expect you to be able tohave the time to, like you know
, do the dishes in the eveningor put the kids to bed, and so,
like you know, our, our genderroles, on our relationships
don't look like normal genderroles.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Um and you know it's pretty fluid.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It's very fluid and so like it's a little odd,
because it's like, at the dropof the hat, I have to be Mr Mom,
um, or I have to be Mr Bob, andyou have to be Mr Dad, exactly,
and um, but there's, there'swonderful upsides, like I mean,
one of my favorite memoriesabout being married to a realtor
was when we were looking atbuying that car in DC and I re,
(17:57):
I forget what the car was, but Iremember it was in an infinity
and we go and we test drive it.
And I was like, yeah, I kind oflike this car.
And the salesman was this likekind of pudgy 50-year-old dude
and he sort of slaps me on theshoulder and he's like, well,
why don't you and I go in theback and we'll go talk numbers
while the little lady gets a cupof coffee?
And I remember just smiling andsaying, oh, that's not how this
works, I don't talk numbers,I'm going to go get a cup of
(18:19):
coffee.
And then you and he disappearedinto the back room and then 10
minutes later later you came outand the guy was like sweating,
his tie was undone and he wasbreathing heavy.
No, no, no, but you're justscreaming and you're just like,
yeah, we couldn't get there onnumbers.
And it was like I, yeah, it'slike I don't even want to know
what you did to that poor guy inthat back room, but like I
(18:40):
think you took 10 years off ofhis life, um, but you know, we
didn't.
We didn't buy the car because,like I don't deal with the
negotiations, because why thehell would I?
You do this for a living.
You're way better at it than Iam, and so, yeah, I think that's
.
The other piece is just how you, just in the same way, you have
to let go of your expectationsaround how time works.
You have to let go of yourexpectations with how genders
(19:02):
and gender roles work, because,but it's not a sacrifice you
have to make, it's an adjustmentyou have to accommodate,
because, like, once you do letgo of it, like it's not, like I
want to do negotiations, likeyou're better at them, and
because of that fact, wepurchase properties for less, we
(19:23):
buy cars for less, like I canpoint to actual dollar savings
that you were able to wring outof processes that I couldn't,
and so you know, yeah, so sweetto hear yeah.
So, in stepping back and lettingyou run point on that, it makes
for a better life for us tolead, like if I were to hang on
to those tasks out of someantiquated notion of what my
(19:45):
role in the relationship is.
Um, then, like we wouldn't havethese savings.
Um, instead, I go home and Ibake sourdough bread for the
kids sandwiches I mean, you alsoknow how to like take apart a
jeep.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We have a few things well, I guess that's actually.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
That's actually kind of probably a good point too.
Like when I was younger, I meanI did build a jeep from.
I used to smoke Marlboros, Iused to, I used to drive, I used
to be a whitewater raft guide,and so I feel like one of the
reasons I'm so cool with notgiving a shit about gender roles
(20:22):
is like I was so over the topin my like early twenties around
, like being a dude's dude, likethat.
It's like there's nothing leftto prove.
Like I've owned Miatas proudly,because, after you've built
your own Jeep, like there'snothing left to prove on that
front.
So yeah, and so because, becauseI'm very secure in that,
(20:44):
because I've already had accessto that, like it was very easy
for me.
So I'm not saying it's it's,I'm not saying it's easy, and I
could see how, if you didn'thave that experience as like a
cisgendered male in your earlieryears, it might be hard to feel
comfortable like walking awayfrom those expectations now.
But I'm very lucky because Ialready was able to live so high
(21:04):
off the charts on one hand,that letting go of all of it now
and just you know, being theguy that you know tucks the kids
in at night and bakes the breadfor the sandwiches in the
morning, like I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I got nothing left to prove.
Well, I love you for it.
Your flexibility and just notneeding to be the man of the
house is like one of your bestqualities, to be honest.
Honest, you're super flexibleand you're just a really great
life partner.
All right, so heteronormity outthe window.
I think we got that one naileddown.
(21:36):
Uh, all right, what's pointnumber three for you?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
um, you can drive yourself crazy trying to make a
life with a realtor look like anormal life, and I've, I've seen
it happen.
Like I think back to that guyin that restaurant staring
glumly at his plate.
I know it was really sad.
I almost like just went and putmy arm around his shoulder and
be like I feel your brother,I've been there, but the reality
(22:03):
is that, like if you try totreat a realtor like a typical
woman, it won't work and it can.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
You just set yourself up for disappointment I've seen
it backfire too with agentsthat have been at my brokerage,
where the husband is not okaywith their wife being a realtor.
And just again, going back topoint number two, it's like they
wanted her to play a particularrole and they wanted to put
that round peg in a round hole,but that hole did not
(22:36):
accommodate who, that woman wasand I think it's.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think it's like a hard time in our society where I
feel, like the last 20 years,like at cultural level, women
have been given a path toself-actualization that is
independent of others.
Right, like we now have aconcept I mean, it's not widely
adopted and there's alwayschallenges and let's not talk
about an election but like thereis now at least a.
(23:02):
There is an archetype, there'sa model for a woman that lives a
full and complete life inisolation.
Like you do not need a man forfulfillment.
You might want one and somepeople might prefer one.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh, I, I like, I like mine.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, I'm a keeper, I'm into mine, but, but it's no
longer necessary.
And I think the one of the umand I think one of the
challenges is I think, in alarge, large way, what society
expects of men is actually stilldefined through their
(23:35):
relationship with other people,not in a good or healthy way,
right?
Like you know, sexual dominanceis like part of a masculine
identity thing and like that'sbad, but like it still implies
that there's at least somebodythere that you're dominating.
And so I don't know that therereally are great archetypes for
men where they can get a senseof fulfillment or can look to a
(24:00):
role model and say I don't needsomeone else in my life to reach
that level of success else inmy life to reach that level of
success.
Even the real, the high-flyingtech, bro types things, they're
never alone.
(24:20):
You always see them with thesupermodels.
Even the ones where it's notequal, even the ones where it's
abusive, there is still someoneelse there.
And so when you're with arealtor who can like up and
disappear at any moment becausethey're going to go make $50,000
in the next four hours, there'snot really a place to put that,
I think, in most concepts ofmasculine identity that I have
(24:44):
exposure to.
And so if you are trying tomake your life with the realtor
in your life, with the realtorin your life, fit really any
archetypical relationshipdynamic that I'm familiar with,
it just doesn't work, and so youwind up with resentment.
(25:07):
Um, because, you know, not onlyis the wife not playing the
traditional gender role of youknow, meeting you at the door
with the next drink and thehome-cooked meal, especially
when you introduce kids rightwhen you introduce kids.
Yeah, it's like what, like, onceyou realize that like she's
just never gonna be able to bethat person, um, like, she's
just never going to be able tobe that person, um like there's
(25:30):
just no.
I mean I'm sorry to interrupt,but then add in like she might
make more than you like yeah,you know, it's kind of funny,
like I actually I don't knowthat that's as big a thing as it
might seem.
I I because I've seen realtorrelationships blow up too, and I
don't because the thing is youguys don't make money like
(25:51):
normal people.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
We aren't normal people.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
No, I mean, like every two weeks I get a little
piece of paper that feeds myvalidation because it has a
number on it and it's a funnumber to look at, and you don't
get that every two weeks, likenow.
Every you know few weeks, youget a random piece of number a
random piece of paper that comesout of the blue and has an
astronomically high number, butit's like at no point, like I
(26:16):
still don't know what you makeevery year.
I don't think I've ever in our16 years together, I don't
actually think I can name apoint in time where I could tell
you how much money you madeover the course of a year.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I mean to be honest, I can't even tell you Because it
doesn't matter.
Even after my taxes are done.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
It's such a fuzzy number because A it happens at
random, so the money coming inis unpredictable and all over
the map and you guys carry somany expenses that it's top line
.
The money that my company paysme I put in my pocket.
I don't have to go out and thenspend dollars on Zillow leads
to go get another paycheck.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
There's a whole profit loss involved.
It's not a straight salary.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So I've often thought that the issue that men have
with realtors and feelingthreatened by realtors is less
around the fact they make moremoney, because, even if it's
true it's not like younecessarily are exposed to that,
I think it comes down tothey're not playing the role
that society tells you theyshould play and they're not
around, so you can't play therole that society tells you you
(27:20):
should play, and so I think it'seasier to resent realtors for
their absence than it is fortheir income.
And so yeah, and that's theproblem, it's like if that's
important to you or if that'swhat you're looking for in a
relationship or in a dynamic,like it's just not going to work
because the nature of the beastmeans that you're just not
(27:41):
going to have those cards toplay.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Mm-hmm, if you're listening to this and thinking,
I wish someone would just helpme figure this out.
That is literally what I do.
I offer one-on-one coaching foragents, team leads and
brokerage owners who want abusiness that actually fits
(28:04):
their life no trendy tactics.
That actually fits their life.
No trendy tactics, no burnout,just clarity, systems and
support.
Book your free discovery callat happyagentco.
Slash coaching Also.
Link is in the show notes.
Now back to the episode.
It was fascinating.
We just got into likemasculinity, femininity.
(28:26):
So you're so deep, I love you.
Okay, one more point.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah, so um .
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Point number four.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, this is sort of like the happy note to end on
for all three.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
This is like the cherry on top of that on
Wednesday, Sunday, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think it takes, I think, a certain amount of
strength.
It takes a certain amount ofcourage to truly embrace the
fact that it's just not going tobe what anyone you know you
yourself, society, your parentstold you.
Your relationship is going tobe like your.
Your relationship will neverwork the way others do or your
(29:05):
life or your life, yeah, or yeahexactly, or your life.
It's just, it's just not in thecards, it's not going to happen,
um and like.
Once you accept that and I'mnot saying it's easy because
it's hard and I can see why Ireally understand.
I never struggled with itpersonally, but I can definitely
see why other people would andI don't resent them for that.
(29:28):
I mean, that's another, I think, important thing to point out,
which is if your spouse or yourboyfriend is like struggling
with coming to grips with this,it's probably worth being a
little bit patient andrecognizing exactly how much of
a shift or how much of a changethe lifestyle asks of him, and
(29:52):
recognize the fact that he mightnot be he's probably not aware
of it, like.
It's easy for me to say thiswith 16 years of experience.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
When you met me when I was a realtor.
So like there's also that whereyou've been, maybe you've been
in a relationship and you becomea realtor and that person's
known you before realtoring ohyeah, that'd be horrible, right,
it'd be so hard.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
God, yeah, yeah, and so I think that's like the key
thing is is, like you know,having a little patience would
probably go a long way, andrecognizing that the, the, the
guy in your life might not evenbe aware of why it's so
uncomfortable and certainlywon't be able to articulate it,
um, and so like having somepatience on that front or having
(30:31):
a therapist.
Having a therapist that'd be agood niche is like a real
therapist you all need it.
Oh so bad that seriously wouldbe a good match they don't need
help.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
A realtor health crisis in our country right now
a realtor relationship coach.
That'd be really cool, would bereally cool, but maybe do you
want to do it.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We could do it together, that'd be fun but no,
and so I guess what the point ofit is is that, like the first
step is really the biggest andreally the hardest.
Like you got to make this hugejump.
You got to walk away fromeverything that like society has
told you that you should be,that they should be, that you
what.
You're sure you have to walkaway from a lot of stuff, but
once you do, there's all thisinsane upside.
(31:11):
Like I don't particularly likenegotiating for cars.
You view it as like arecreational hobby, I know.
So it's like, all of a suddenthere's all of this
heteronormative work that like,yeah, I might've found some
masculine sense of fulfillmentand performing, but at the same
time, like I felt like I enjoyedit.
And so once you get used to it,you're like, oh sweet, I don't
have to do this anymore.
(31:31):
That's awesome.
Taxes I don't know how to dotaxes.
I wouldn't even know where tostart with your numbers.
So this is great.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I'm so glad you're not involved.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh my God, that would be a terrible idea.
Or, you know, or like vacations, like, yeah, like when we were
talking about going to likeDenmark for six weeks with the
kids, like that's.
I mean I can't even begin toimagine how disruptive that
would be for the folks out therewith, I mean God, could you
imagine, especially in like atrades job where you couldn't go
(32:01):
remote?
I mean, like that kind of stuffis impossible, it would take
years of planning.
But for us it's like an impulsemove because of the nature of
your work.
And so I think, like withanything, there's always this
tension between the comfort andsafety of the known and the
thrill and the potential of theunknown.
Like that, I think that's partof the human experience.
(32:22):
Is like, how do you balancethose two things?
And just recognizing that beingwith a realtor is a is a
conscientious step into theunknown and it does require
courage and it does requireadjustments.
But once you make thatcommitment very, very early on
in the relationship, the backendis all upside, you know,
(32:45):
because once you get over thefact that, like, you're not
going to look like a traditionalguy to your friends, um, you
know now, from from that pointon.
It's all you know.
Denmark for six weeks andimpulse purchasing.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Getting a 32-foot RV.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Buying a 32.
Well, no, the one that reallygot me.
I talk about it with the kidsbecause I worry that the kids
look at our lives as like hownormal people live and they just
don't.
But you know, when I was and wetalked about this too when I
was out of college and waitingtables at one point, and I would
take my tips and I'd bring themhome every night and I'd tuck
them into this plastic cup I hadon my desk and I'd really hope
(33:22):
by the end of the month there'dbe enough cash in the cup to pay
the rent and pay all the bills.
And I'd like tuck the littledollars.
And I remember the feeling ofthe cup.
And then when you had the guycome into your office and asked
to sell this property and hesaid, asked you what he could
get for it.
And you said, listen, if we,you know, if we make some
upgrades, you can get x, if wejust stage it, you can get y.
And if you're cool with z, I'llwrite you a check right now.
(33:43):
And the guy's like, done, writeit up.
And you just impulse, purchasedthis house and and then we
bought the house and then itneeded a new faucet.
And you asked me if I could goinstall it and I said yeah, and
I go to the home Home Depot andI'm in the car with this new
faucet and this riding shotgunand I'm driving around the
neighborhood and then it hit me.
I didn't know where the housewas and we were both on the deed
(34:05):
right.
This was a house I owned and Ihad gone from stuffing dollar
bills in a plastic cup to paythe rent to literally misplacing
a house that I owned and thatwas.
I think that was the pointwhere it really hit me about
like this is just not how normalpeople live.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
You just have such an immense amount of trust in me.
I just think that's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, I mean.
But the thing is is like whywouldn't I trust you with real
estate decisions?
True that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Right, you're in healthcare.
I trust you with our health.
Yeah, exactly, I picked thehealth insurance.
Get that.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, that's true, like um, and so yeah, like, yeah
, I mean, obviously trust isimportant, but like, yeah, like
I said, once you get there, likeit's really what I think with a
lot of relationships it's thefirst part, that's the fun part,
and then it kind of gets morechallenging as you go.
And I think in real estate it'sthe other way around the the
hard stuff beyond, like thethird date, the hard stuff is
(34:59):
all front loaded.
It's the back end.
That's amazing.
And so you sort of have to havethe courage and the patience to
like, take the long view andthen enjoy the ride on the back
end.
And so, yeah, that would be mytakeaway.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
These are so great and like I just think that it's
kind of fun to let people in,because I do talk about how real
estate can build your dreamlife.
And again, we don't always goon these rides by ourselves,
solo, so it's been fun becauseyou've been along for the ride.
And it hasn't always beensmooth, it has definitely been
bumpy, but I think at the end,like you and I are so incredibly
(35:38):
I hate this word, but blessedto like live the life that we
live, and I really think so muchof it is not only real estate,
but it was also.
you were such a good real estatepartner.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Oh, that's sweet, I like that.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And so I.
There was a major motivationfor, like I know we were just
chatting over lunch and I'm likewe have to record this podcast
episode because I think that wedon't talk often enough about
the support system behind therealtor and people always ask me
how do you do everything thatyou do?
And I say I have an incrediblysupportive partner at home and
(36:19):
if you don't have that like,it's very hard.
I think it's not possible, butit's very hard to build your
dream life through real estateif you don't have support at
home.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
I mean I, if, if there was a, um, a woman in a
relationship whose husbandexpected her to be a traditional
woman, I don't, I literallycannot understand how that would
work if she was enjoying even amodicum of professional success
.
Right, like it, just it justisn't.
(36:51):
I mean forget.
Like women can't have it, allkind of stuff, like it's just
not possible.
Like no, the mental load, thetime like the hands the energy
demands and it's like, and howthey would, how they would hit
at the same time, like I mean,it's not even like there's not
enough hours in a day, it's youjust can't be in two places at
once, like it.
Yeah, I think that's that wouldbe brutally hard, brutally hard
, um, and so I think that's the,that's the, the potential and
(37:16):
the peril is being able toexplain to the, the man in your
life around.
Listen, this is going torequire a lot from you, but,
like, let me tell you all thecool parts about this, because
there's quite quite a few thereare really quite a few.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, thank you so much for jumping on the happy
agent co podcast.
You are an amazing partner andI couldn't have done any of this
without you oh, that's cute.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Happy to help, as always.
I love you.
I love you too.
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