November 18, 2025 • 46 mins
If you’ve ever thought, “I just need a cute logo and some brand colors,” this episode is going to blow your mind! Lindsay is interviewing Patrick Sanders and Darcy Walker of Tuo Studio, the branding team behind her rebrand from City Chic Real Estate to Reverie Residential. We break down what real branding is, how to uncover your core belief, and why your visuals should be the final step—not the first. We also talk about how AI can help you execute your brand more consistently once your foundation is solid.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why your logo is not your brand (and what agents get wrong about branding)
- How to build a real estate brand that’s more than a color palette
- What a brand actually is: your promise, positioning, messaging, and client experience
- How the brand discovery process works and why it feels like “brand therapy”
- What core beliefs, messaging pillars, and manifestos are—and why strong brands need them
- Why generic, mass-appeal branding hurts boutique brokerages and agent teams
- How to use AI tools for branding to stay consistent without losing authenticity
- How to act as the creative director of your brand across marketing and social media
Branding isn’t about fonts, logos, or Canva templates—it’s about clarity, consistency, and the emotional promise you make to your clients. This conversation will help you understand the deeper strategy behind real estate branding and give you a framework for building a brand that truly stands out.
Learn more about:
- Tuo Studio: www.tuo.studio
- Custom ChatGPT for Real Estate Course: happyagent.co/academy
*****************************************************
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Today, I'm sitting down with Patrick Sanders and
Darcy Walker of 20 Studio, theboutique branding firm behind my
brokerage rebrand from City ChicReal Estate to Reverie
Residential.
If you have ever wondered whattruly goes into building a real
brand, not just picking colorsand a logo and fonts, you're
going to love this conversation.
(00:56):
We talk through what acomprehensive brand package
actually includes, how to thinkabout branding as a real estate
professional, and why it's somuch more than aesthetics.
Let's dive into the interview.
I want to start the conversationby asking you guys, what do you
think a brand is?
And what do you think thepurpose of a brand is?
SPEAKER_04 (01:19):
I think there's a lot of different things that
people say when they talk aboutwhat a brand is.
And for me, one piece of it, Ithink, is a feeling.
So it's like the feeling thatyou get when you think about X
company, the feeling you getwhen you think about Nike, or
Nike's always the best example.
(01:40):
Like with Nike, the promise isperformance, right?
You want to buy from Nike whenyou want to have that like
January 1st, like I'm gonna hitthe gym and really like go at
it.
That's Nike, right?
Or the other great example isVolvo.
Volvo is safety.
When you think of Volvo, youthink of just like being
(02:02):
comfortable and safe andcushioned.
So it's the feeling that youget, and it's the feeling you
know you can always get, andthat promise and the consistency
of it.
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
I really like that because it's kind of jives with
what I feel like a brand is too.
I feel like it's the promisethat the company is making to
the consumer, and it's howyou're communicating that
promise.
So it's the words, it's thevisuals, and it's all of those
things.
So it's like not only is it likemaking the client feel something
or the consumer feel something,but it's also communicating what
(02:35):
they're going to get when theywork with you.
So I think like we're on thesame page about that.
In the real estate industry, somuch of it is just like what's
your logo and what's yourcolors.
And I just think that that's thebiggest misconception.
And it's why I was so excited tohave this conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
I would also say, too, like if you just think
about what we were just talkingabout, like the things that
happen for brands that fail areusually because they've broken
that promise.
So it's like if you think aboutit from the other way around,
that understanding of what theystand for and their principles,
their values, whatever you kindof want to label that, it really
matters.
(03:10):
The misconception that a logo ora color palette is a brand, you
know, that's one ingredient.
But really the thing thatmatters the most and actually
establishing that kind of rentin someone's mind comes down to
the feelings that you're givingthem.
What goes into a rebrand or abranding exercise to begin with
is, you know, on your part,Lindsay, on the client side, the
(03:31):
brand side, you need a lot ofcourage to be honest, to be
candid, to be raw, but toactually really be vulnerable in
terms of exposing the thingsthat really matter to you and
your brand.
And then you synthesize all ofthat down into the things that
really seem to be distinct,memorable, ownable, true.
(03:51):
You want to get all the tablestakes just pushed aside, get
through the stuff that everyonecan claim and really zone in on
the things that make youspecial.
And honestly, that means thatyour brand isn't going to be for
everybody.
It's really understanding whoyou're trying to reach.
Because I think, especially inreal estate, having spent a lot
of time uh with brokerages andagents, there's a tendency to
(04:16):
kind of try to be mass appeal.
And you can do that, but whathappens is that your brand
becomes pretty thin.
It's kind of like a veneer onsomething where it's just like
the minute you start to dig anydeeper, there's nothing really
there.
And oftentimes there could be,but it's just like we want to be
liked by everybody.
(04:36):
And you know, that's just nothow this works.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Right.
And like I think that there'sdefinitely the layers of
branding and real estate whereif you have the big behemoths
like Compass or Codelbanker orKeller Williams, they're almost
like a canvas that the agent hasto paint on.
They have to be flexible enoughthat thousands, hundreds of
thousands of agents can paint onthat canvas.
(05:01):
Whereas if you're a boutique oran independent and you are more
niche in terms of maybe clientsyou serve or agents that you
serve, I do feel like brandingbecomes that much more important
to be able to stand out in themarketplace because you do need
to stand out in that sea ofsameness.
And I think that that's whereboutique and independent
brokerages or even just agentteams or even agents with their
(05:25):
own brand.
It's like that's how you canreally differentiate yourself
against these big corporateidentities, is by like really
leaning into what makes youdifferent.
And I think that that was reallya great thing that you guys did
in your process, which is likestarting with that discovery of
what do you stand for?
What makes you different?
(05:45):
So the discovery process withyou guys, I thought was really
fun and also super interestingbecause you asked such great
questions.
And I actually really had noidea where we were gonna go with
this.
To give everybody some context,I basically was like, I need to
rebrand City Chic Real Estatebecause we are not just the city
(06:09):
anymore.
We are really the suburbs in themetro DC area.
And then I'm also I opened anoffice in New Hampshire and I
wanted everything to be underthe same brand umbrella.
So City Chic doesn't really workin New Hampshire.
It's like country chic, andwe're not doing that.
I wanted to come to you guyswhere I was like, all right,
here's the challenge.
Our clients have changed, theagents we want to attract have
(06:32):
changed, and our geographiclocation is also expanding and
changing.
And here's, I'm like dumpingthis all in your lap.
So it started with thediscovery, and I'm like, I got a
challenge.
What are you guys gonna do?
So I'm curious to like get inyour minds a little bit about
like what are your goals fromyour point of view?
(06:53):
What is the discovery phase allabout?
And what do you feel like makesit successful?
SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
Well, I will start with the fact that uh you also
brought with us the challenges,you brought an incredible name.
And immediately Darcy and I werejust hooked.
SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Like Oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Yeah, I mean, the the concept was there.
And I think going intoDiscovery, it was like, I really
hope this is substantiated withsomething meaningful.
And so as soon as we startedhaving conversations, you
brought a very kind of candid,composed uh authenticity to
(07:39):
every question.
You were not afraid to just gothere.
In doing so, you kind of revealweaknesses and challenges that
you've been facing, mistakesthat you've made, the
aspirations you have foryourself and your life and your
brand and your company.
Coming out of that, it's our jobto really comb through those
things.
Having participated in so manydiscoveries across so many
(08:01):
different types of businessesand industries, the goal from
our side is to just come with anintense curiosity and the
ability to decipher through thethings that just feel like not
unique.
You kept giving us these thingsthat were just so interesting
and vastly different than I haveever heard in any discovery for
a brokerage.
(08:23):
The layer of touch points thatyou have with your agents is
special, first of all, but alsothings that you just would not
expect to hear.
As we're thinking about reveriein this really emotive space,
you started to substantiate thatwith like, you know, we do dream
journaling at our retreats.
We talk about uh putting outintentions.
(08:44):
It's like all of these thingsthat were like, oh my God, this
is gonna be a true story.
Like, this is gonna be a realtrue story.
And the potential that name hadto really kind of stand for
something, um, I think just madeus even more eager to kind of
like figure out all of thefacets to how you exercise this
kind of like again, it's buyingand selling at the very base of
(09:08):
it, it's buying and selling, youknow, a house.
You're helping folks, you know,uh achieve this milestone.
But the way in which Reveriesupports that in terms of really
going there in terms of thedaydreaming aspects, that kind
of like really fuzzy, etherealfeeling that everybody has,
(09:29):
every single person, no matterwhat, it's like this is a really
cool territory.
Like, uh, you know, I think fromthe manifesto to really
understanding that very purecore message, there was just
like it was a goosebumps a lotof the times, just going like,
oh, this is just gonna be likeincredible.
SPEAKER_04 (09:48):
I fully cosign everything you just said, and I
would just add you come at itfrom more of a design, you think
about things visually, I'm comeat it from a messaging angle.
And I think for me, what'sprobably not evident to people
who aren't inside the process isjust how like not groundbreaking
(10:11):
it feels when you're doing it.
It's very journalistic innature, and I think of it more
as like if you were gonna go outand cover a news story, you go
and seek out as much informationas you can gather on the topic,
and then there's sort of anarrative that starts to reveal
itself that you don't have to,the only work you have to do is
(10:34):
get the information out.
And so for me, that's reallywhat discovery is it's pulling
all that information out of youand pushing.
I mean, in your case, you therewas not a lot of pushing because
you just were so open andwilling to go there, but pushing
you to like go deeper and digdeeper and really like what why
(10:54):
are you here?
Why do you do this?
Because there's some sort ofdeep personal story that got you
to where you are today that'sdriving that.
And so it's just a matter ofuncovering that, and then the
narrative starts to revealitself.
And that's really whatdiscovery's all about for me.
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
I didn't have any preconceived notions coming into
it, but what I really loved islike you guys did a really good
job of just like distilling allthe information that I gave you
into the framework.
And so it was distilled intolike that core belief, that core
belief that every brand has.
And if you don't have one, youshould have one.
But it's like ours is everydream is realistic.
(11:30):
And from that, you buildbasically like it's it's like a
cake.
We're like putting some morefrosting, maybe another layer of
cake, and then a frosting onthat, and then like a layer and
some frosting.
And so it was really cool to seefrom my perspective as someone
who like really had noexpectations, that you really
could distill it down to thatcore belief.
And then from that, it was likeeverything just kind of unfolded
(11:54):
and expanded.
But I think what so many peopledon't realize is that that was
all based on this really simplecore belief of Reverie
Residential.
So I thought that was like kindof amazing, and also something I
didn't really understand goinginto it is that we were gonna
(12:15):
like boil this down like maplesyrup.
Like it was gonna get like realboiled, and then you just
distilled it.
SPEAKER_03 (12:21):
And I'm like, oh, this is like so great.
This makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Yeah.
And if you to go back to thevery first statement you made
about like the misconception ofwhat branding is and your kind
of you know, cake analogy, ifthe core message is the very
base ingredient of that, we'rethe logo, that's the outside
(13:12):
icing layer.
You know, it's the thing thatpeople interact with on the
outside.
And that core truth, that coremessage, that DNA of the brand,
uh, I think for Reverie wasreally good though.
I mean, just because it's likecomparing and balancing out
dreams and realism in onelittle, I mean, it's just such a
great place to start from.
(13:33):
So getting down to that reallyclear synthesis and
distillation, if it's true andit's unique and it's special,
everything else can't help butbe special.
SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
The cake analogy just reminded me of a metaphor.
You've heard of a confetti cake,right?
Everyone's had confetti cake.
If you put sprinkles on top ofthe cake, it's not confetti
cake.
The sprinkles have to be bakedin.
And that's how I think of theprocess is like we have to find
the sprinkles and bake them intothe cake before we have the
batter.
It's not just sprinkling thingson top.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
It is that core belief, it's the flavor of your
cake.
Just it's like baked in throughand through.
Like you can't change achocolate cake to be vanilla
cake.
So you better like that flavorbecause it is gonna be in
everything.
Every bite is gonna have thatflavor.
SPEAKER_04 (14:21):
And to that point, too, because I think something
when you're uncovering the corebelief, it's one part
uncovering, but it's also like Ithink sometimes people will make
the mistake of not personalizingtheir core belief enough.
And what works so well withyours is it's your if your core
(14:41):
belief is your dreams arerealistic.
That's not something that likethat's something you have to
prove, right?
That's not something thateveryone is just going to be
here and say, oh yeah, ofcourse.
That that's like a stake in theground, that's like a picket
sign you're holding up that youthen get to prove.
That's very personal.
And Patrick was saying it hasthis sort of unexpected duality
(15:05):
to it.
We're not just adhering dreamsand real in the same sentence.
And so that uniqueness rooted inauthenticity, is what makes it
work so well.
Well, I have you guys to thankfor that.
You are the one that does theyou do the hard work.
We just reflect back at you whatyou have shown us.
Yeah.
So it's it's you're the one thathas done the work.
(15:26):
We are not to thank for that.
We're just the mirror.
SPEAKER_03 (15:28):
I think you guys do a great job, and I look
beautiful.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
A lot of clients refer to discovery through like
our lens and process as liketherapy.
Like it's just like brandtherapy because you've got to go
there, you know?
And it's really our job as kindof the practitioners of that
process to just really make surethat we are doing our best to
genuinely reflect, like Darcysaid, everything we're hearing
(15:54):
into that through that lens ofhow people will interact and
interpret this brand.
SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
So, for those of you listening, Patrick is more of
like visual identity and Darcyis like messaging queen.
So, Darcy, we've headed intolike messaging hardcore for our
ideal avatars, like clientavatar and agent avatar.
So, walk me through themessaging layer of the cake.
(16:20):
Because I'm actually loving thisanalogy.
So, we did like the base layerof the cake, and now we're going
to the messaging layer of thiscake.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
I'm gonna do my best to try to think over here on
some more cake.
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
Yeah, I'm gonna go get cake after this, probably.
SPEAKER_04 (16:33):
Or we're gonna watch Is It Cake on Netflix.
Oh wow, I know.
And probably that's a negativebrand analogy.
It really didn't make that workfor me.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:43):
Well, so messaging, again, the process of it feels a
lot more scientific and logicalthan I think a lot of people
would expect.
Once we have your core messageand we know what you stand for
without thinking about theoutside world, we know what you
stand for.
Then the next piece of that isokay, who are the people I need
and want to talk to?
(17:03):
Who are my customers?
We went through the process ofranking your customers, who's
your primary customer, what arethey like?
Like what keeps them up atnight?
Where are they in life?
What are their challenges?
What are their goals?
What are their fears?
And really understanding thempsychographically.
So, you know, they might not be,depending on how we define them
(17:26):
or what they're going through,they might not be in the same
age group, but they certainlydeal with the same struggle.
And because of that, we canmessage to them in a way that
speaks to them.
So identified your audiences.
And then the next piece of thatis really just taking that core
message and based on what weknow about them, translating it
(17:49):
in a way that they'llunderstand.
And the way I like to thinkabout this with the best
metaphor I have is not cake,unfortunately, but it's
language.
I know.
I'm sure if I worked on it, Icould find one.
But it's like language, right?
If I go to Lebanon, I'm notgonna talk to someone in
English.
I'm gonna talk to them inLebanese if I know how to speak
(18:11):
Lebanese theoretically.
I'll say the same thing to themas I'm saying to you right now.
It'll just be in a language thatthey understand.
It's the same thing withmessaging.
We're just translating it intobased on what we know about this
person, how they'll understandus.
So we do that at a high levelwith the core message, and then
based on what we know abouttheir goals and their obstacles.
(18:33):
That's how we basically createour messaging pillars.
SPEAKER_02 (18:35):
For people listening, I think they may not
know what a pillar is.
So can you explain?
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_04 (18:41):
A brand messaging pillar is essentially it's the
easiest way to think about it.
Is I think probably most peopleremember in grade school, you
learn how to write an essay,right?
And you have your top paragraphwhere you sort of like it's your
intro, and then you have themiddle of the essay, and you're
(19:01):
sort of like those are yourproof points to the intro where
you're proving out that firstparagraph, and then you have
your conclusion.
Messaging pillars are thatmiddle paragraph, and your brand
foundation, your core message isthat top paragraph.
So if your core message isdreams are realistic, your
messaging pillars are the threebest arguments you have to
(19:24):
proving that out.
So based on your audience'sneeds and your services, each
pillar is defined by, okay,well, this pillar is how we will
make your dreams realisticthrough strategic planning or
financial planning.
This second pillar is how wewill make your dreams realistic
(19:46):
through selling strategies orbuying strategies and so on and
so on, if that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
I would also say too, like groundbreaking, but
the reason they are calledpillars is because literally
they support your core message.
They support what you stand for.
In some ways, they are thearticulation or the definition
of your promise that you'remaking.
So it's how you can break thatdown.
And like Darcy said, withaudiences, that pillar will be
(20:14):
different for each one of youraudiences, but it's the same
pillar, but it's going to beconveyed differently per that
audience.
SPEAKER_02 (20:23):
Right.
Let's sum it up in like asummary of like a deliverable.
And so our deliverable was wehad obviously like our our core
message.
We had our manifesto.
How do you guys define amanifesto?
It was amazing, by the way.
But like I'm at least like, Ifeel like it's your promise, but
it's like gets people in theirfeels, honestly.
SPEAKER_04 (20:44):
Yeah, I mean I think you have a great definition for
a manifesto, also, and I'mcurious your like because you
then translated into design.
For from my point of view, themanifesto is really it's that
like it's a capstone todiscovery, and it's like the
essence of everything that wethat we collected from you, all
(21:06):
the information.
It's that narrative that wepulled out of it, and it's it
captures the emotion that we gotfrom you throughout the process,
and just yeah, very expressive,emotive couple paragraphs.
unknown (21:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
You hear a lot of people use the term brand story,
and I think that that is it'sconfusing for people because
they, you know, a story is likewell, there's so many different
types.
So many people don't like toread, they don't like to expose
themselves to the world, theydon't, you know, in terms of
like being their true authenticself.
And so, like, if if you're like,you need a brand story, I think
(21:43):
it just it you might agree, butyou don't know how to take the
first step.
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
If there was something that could most
accurately be summarized as abrand story, it would be a
manifesto.
It is just the absolute mostpure narrative of everything
your brand was meant to be andis and is becoming.
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
I love that.
That's so good.
All right, so we had themanifesto, so you we got that
delivered.
Then we had the brand pillars,and then you dove into our three
audiences.
We had two consumer audiencesand one agent-facing audience,
and you basically wrotebeautiful copy for each of those
(22:24):
brand pillars for each ofspecifically for each of those
audiences.
And so I just kind of want togive like everybody an idea of
who's listening, of like all ofthe stuff that gets generated,
because so many people are like,oh, it's just a brand, whatever.
We haven't even gotten to thevisuals yet, Patrick.
We're gonna get to you next.
(22:44):
And then you're going to havethis deliverable of all of the
stuff that you can use.
Oh, we didn't even get intotagline, but for dreams well
lived is a beautiful tagline.
And so you get all of thisbeautiful stuff, and then we're
handing this incredible packageto Patrick, who now gets to use
all of this beautiful languageand work and emotive stuff to
(23:10):
then bring it to life.
And I think, I don't know if youagree, but I think the branding
visuals are the icing on thecake.
It's the pretty decorations onthe outside.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
Yeah.
It tends to be the thing thatmost people are most comfortable
interacting with and talkingabout as well.
Everyone has had at least someconversations about a brand's
logo or a color, whether theylike it or they don't like it.
And we interact with brands somuch throughout our day.
And a lot of those interactionsare just visuals.
(23:41):
We see it.
We don't maybe understand itscore message or its audiences or
what it stands for, but we seeit.
And so I think that's why peopleare just so much more
comfortable talking about it,um, but yeah, all of that
foundational work is critical tobuilding and our architecting a
really special identity becauseI have something to tether the
(24:02):
concepts to.
Without that rich narrative andmeaning, the design work that
goes into establishing what thebrand's look and feel and kind
of tone is uh becomes reallymanufactured.
It really doesn't feel authenticor really tied.
So yeah, I think when we get tothat part, it's the job for the
(24:23):
studio to really presentdifferent pathways that you can
take that really all kind oflead to the same destination,
but in a different way.
And we kind of refer to that asround one.
It's meant to be really wideopen.
We're throwing a lot of ideas inthere.
We're looking at kind of artdirection, uh, just mood,
(24:45):
aesthetics, and then obviouslylike some of the tactical
things, a logo.
What does that logo give us interms of a system, color
palettes?
And the goal uh coming out ofthat is like choose, keep
moving.
While that would be reallybeautiful and really nice, what
tends to happen is that theclient, and in your case, you
(25:07):
and some of your team membersjoined that as well.
Remember?
Yeah, but it really needs tospark conversation, and I think
what it does is it gives you theability now to kind of go, okay,
now I kind of see all thesedifferent avenues, and I have
the words and the vocabulary toreally kind of crystallize what
it is that I want.
(25:29):
So that's what round two is for.
You know, it's for taking theoutcomes from round one and
really refining it down into thenext kind of thing that we can
really evaluate and hone in on.
Because if we just asked you atthe beginning, well, what do you
imagine your brand is gonna looklike?
You don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
No idea.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah.
So really, while it would begreat to think that you we're
gonna come in here and I'm justgonna show you the logo, that's
just never really how it works.
You know, it it's it's it'smore, it's more discovery, it's
more fact-finding, but in a waythat's like really trying to
paint a very clear picture sothat you can really have
(26:08):
everything you need to evaluatehow it's performing, how does it
feel?
Does this stand for you?
Does it feel timeless?
You know, is this something Ican I'm gonna be able to grow
into over time?
I mean, those are really all thethings that we're trying to
explore with round one.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
So I feel like it was a really good experience.
But I'll be honest, round onewas very informative.
I opened my eyes.
I didn't feel like any of themwere the one, but I really do
feel like you had a good spacewhere I could be honest and give
you feedback.
And it felt very collaborative.
Honestly, the whole experiencefelt very collaborative, but I
(26:49):
think design can feel for somereason, because there's actual
visual artifacts, like in theclient perspective, it almost
feels like you're being morejudgy and more mean because it's
like, I don't like that or I dolike that.
Whereas with words, I feel it'sit's like, well, you know, I'd
like to say it in a little bitdifferent way instead of with
(27:11):
visuals.
It's very black and white, likeI hate this color, I don't like
this.
So I feel like that was a littlehard for me because I want to be
constructive.
I'm very blunt.
So I want to really not be toorude, but you were very
professional and you reallyunderstood what I was trying to
say.
And I feel like round two prettymuch knocked it out of the park.
SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
Yeah, I'm very happy to hear you say that it felt
collaborative, that it feltsafe.
I mean, I would say if there wasone thing I would want the
hallmark of Tuo's process to beknown for, it's that.
I really think that anybodygoing through this process, I
hope for you that you're workingwith people who don't take this
(28:00):
so seriously and reallyunderstand that they're creating
for you.
Um, and this isn't an exercisein creating something for our
portfolio.
That's not the way this shouldgo.
I think in round one, you'reyou're generating concepts and
ideas, and the goal of that isnot to be right or to have one
(28:22):
of those ideas win.
The idea is to see how yourespond to those and then hone
in on that right pathway becauseit really is like an inverted
triangle.
We start way wide, and the goalis to keep coming towards that
final destination with everybodyin tow, everybody aligned,
everyone feeling excited, youknow.
(28:43):
And so I can't, from myperspective, go into a process
like this trying to be the onethat is right.
I'm I'm trying to surface thingsthat make you feel empowered to
describe and to articulate thevision you're having.
And so again, it's still just itis like creating things, but the
process is still justfact-finding.
(29:05):
It's still trying to surfacethings that we can work with.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Beautifully said.
Yes.
So, what mistakes do you feellike people make when they are
pursuing or thinking about arebrand or a brand, just like
developing a brand in general?
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
I think that I'll answer from a look and feel
perspective, maybe an identityperspective.
I think that some people havethe expectation or the goal to
look like another brand or toaspire to, I wouldn't say
copycat, because I think mostpeople are like, no, I don't
want to do that.
But I think they end up thentrying to be something else
(29:48):
because they see it assuccessful or they see it as
maybe aspirational.
So they come into it already,not really with a clear mind or
a clear headspace in terms ofwhat it is that this should be
doing, like how it shouldperform.
Um, you know, branding is it'slike the difference between
(30:08):
design and art is like art ismeant to be evocative and make
you feel like design is meant toperform and do a job.
So when we think about branddesign, we have to look at it
from that perspective.
And again, like we've coveredkind of at the beginning of our
conversation, in order to kindof do that really well, it's
(30:28):
gotta tap into those coreelements.
And who knows how that's gonnamanifest when we get to design.
You know, there's myriad ways inwhich that thing could come to
life.
But if you already have apre-ordained vision for what it
is you're trying to make it looklike, you're already doing it
the wrong way.
You're already coming at thisand making the process surface
(30:49):
level, and it doesn't allow usto really take you there, which
is what you need to do.
SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
Yeah, you might as well just go into Canva and
create one of their logos.
SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Like, I mean, there's no shame in that game.
Like, if that's where you're atwith your business, that's fine.
But it's not branding.
SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Yeah, and I think from my perspective, it's not
taking the time and not allowingyourself the lack of to sort of
be free of fear and like thefreedom to really like look
inward and figure out what thatcore message is, because it's
(31:33):
easy to get caught up in feelinglike, oh, this is so
wishy-washy, especially at thebeginning when we don't have
visuals yet.
We're just like sort of layingthe groundwork and it's like,
what the hell are we doing?
But the whole point of that isthat that message is what makes
your brand strong, becausebrands are like we said at the
beginning, a strong brand isconsistent.
(31:56):
And so for Nike, their coremessage is if you have a body
you're an athlete.
The only place you see if youhave a body year an athlete is
if you dig on their website, orif you go to their offices, it's
like big on the wall in thebreak room.
But if you watch, I challengeanyone to go on YouTube and look
at any Nike ad, like literally,I do it once a month just to
(32:19):
make sure that this is stillvalid.
And it always is.
If you think about thestatement, if you have a body or
an athlete and watch anythingfrom Nike, you can see where
that message is the startingpoint.
And so it's really like thebiggest mistake is just not
starting from there because thenyou're not setting yourself up
for longevity, setting yourselfup to deliver on the promise.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Yeah, you didn't figure out what the flavor of
your cake should be.
SPEAKER_04 (32:45):
And like if the cake is not that flavor, I don't want
chocolate cake if I think I'mgetting vanilla.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
I think we need to defined what a is it cake is
actually.
So is it if it's not cake, itjust looks like a cake, but it
isn't.
SPEAKER_02 (33:00):
Yeah, when you cut into it, there is no flavor or
there is no core method orbelief.
The calories are empty.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
They are empty calories.
It makes me so sad.
I want to eat that cake.
Oh my gosh.
Whoa.
Are you final thoughts onbranding?
This has been like brand nerdcentral and I've loved it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Uh you know, I think Darcy and I were having an
interesting conversation overthe past few days.
It was really sparked bysomething you had said in terms
of like things that you're doingwith some of your agents that
you're coaching and um talkingabout AI, everyone's talking
about AI.
And I think that you hear a lotuh about how so many industries
(33:47):
and crafts and jobs and careersare going to be obsolete.
Um, it's easy to think that ourroles are going to become
obsolete, you know.
But I think one of the thingsthat makes me feel really good
about that is how essential thework that we do together with
our clients is in actuallymaking AI perform for you.
(34:12):
So it's like it is a tool and itis only as good as what you put
into it.
In some there's there'sobviously use cases where that
isn't true.
It's giving you more than you'regiving it.
Um, but this is not that casebecause at least right now, you
know, AI can't define your brandfor you.
(34:32):
It can't tap into your brand.
It cannot extrapolate the thingsthat you're not saying.
You know, it's using outside andexternal sources to basically
answer your questions.
Um but you like you can onlyanswer those questions.
So it's like it is a veryexciting time for a lot of
(34:53):
companies and individuals andorganizations.
But I think that this work islike critical in terms of how it
can help you.
Because once you are able togive it every ingredient that
you've got, it allows you toreally bake as many damn cakes
as you want.
SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
Like I plugged in the brand guide that you gave
me.
So the PDF brand guide, which islike 50 pages, so wonderful.
And I plugged it into a customGPT.
So basically, it's like theReverie residential brand GPT on
Chat GPT.
And it really like it knows themanifesto, it knows our tagline,
(35:35):
it knows our brand voice, itknows all of our client avatars,
it knows our agent avatars, itknows everything that is in that
brand guide.
Like that really is just likethis extension of this like
amazing work that you guys did.
Could AI have created that?
I don't think so.
But now that it's been createdand it's wonderful, it is a tool
(35:56):
that AI can use to then help usbe more efficient and get things
out into the world.
Like I did a rebrand five yearsago, but that was so different
in terms of execution andgetting the rebrand out into the
world.
Post like in our in the AIworld, the launching of
(36:17):
everything has become so mucheasier because I'm now able to
be like, I need to create ourhomepage.
Like, let's kind of riff on thattogether.
And it's taking into account allof the stuff that we've put in
with the brand guide.
And so I'm not gonna say it'sperfect, but it is almost like
(36:37):
an extension of the brand, likebecause it already knows
everything, all that hard workwe've done.
So it's like, I'm gonna say,like, it is like AI enhanced has
been really great.
But I think the only reason it'sbeen great and has worked really
well is that I had such amazingmaterials that you guys put
(36:58):
together that I was able to thenput into the into AI.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
Yeah, which was very cool to hear when you told us
that I think that's what got ustalking about the future of
brand standards and the kinds ofdeliverables and outputs from
this process.
How does it better set up umcompanies and brands to, you
know, you're essentiallycreating like the universe in
which AI then is like, orwhichever one you're using, it
(37:25):
that is its confines.
That's how it's exploring.
And so it when you said it, Iyou don't see it as artificial,
it's like it's not in that way.
At this point now, it's pullingfrom the universe you've given
it.
SPEAKER_04 (37:37):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Serving back up ideas and riffs off of that
content.
You actually have to direct it.
But what empowers you to directit then is that you've just gone
through the journey.
So now you go, that's not quiteright.
Like that doesn't hit that note.
And again, you have to be thecurator, you've got to be the
creative director for yourbrand.
(37:59):
And going through that journeynot only gives you stuff at the
end, it empowers you then to beable to judge and define what
makes your brand your brand.
SPEAKER_02 (38:10):
Definitely.
I really think we're just in thebeginning phases of this right
now.
And so I don't think AI istaking over anybody's job, but I
think that you are putting yourhead in the sand if you are not
seeing how AI can enhance whatyou are already providing or
what you are already doing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (38:29):
Yeah, it's a productivity tool to increase
your ability to be consistent.
Exactly.
That consistency piece is soimportant, but it only works if
you actually stick to themessaging and stick to the
design.
And so AI just re makes it soeasy to scale that.
It's always human-led, right?
(38:49):
You're the best voice of or andyou know what feels right and
feels wrong because you've gonethrough this process now.
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
I think there's you're the creative director.
I do see it as like it, like I'mthe creative director, and it
can kind of be my brainstormassistant where we just kind of
riff on it together.
So I do think like the AIenhanced or just that, like it
is a productivity tool.
Like, just like you said, like Idon't think it's a lot of people
are like, it's removinghumanity, it's gonna make us all
(39:18):
inauthentic.
And I'm like, it will do that ifyou let it and if you do that.
But like, I don't feel like it'smade me any less authentic.
And I think it's actually madeit easier for me to get more
authentic content out into theworld.
SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Yeah, you my hope for it is that it gives people
who otherwise didn't have it theconfidence to selves and to try
things and to kind of put thoselike statements about, well, I'm
just not creative, or I justthat's not me.
Like that's you.
It's like everyone has that theinnate ability, it's just
(39:55):
covered up in likeself-perception and fear and
anxiety to you know exercisethat muscle.
SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
My hope is that this allows more of that expression
to happen because you've gotthis like you know, very benign,
safe um partner who's just gonnaamp you up.
SPEAKER_02 (40:18):
Non-judgmental, it really is.
And like you can put anything inand you can just like riff
around, like, like just playwith it.
I don't think five years ago,without AI, I would have been
able to like execute the brandthat you guys so beautifully
created in the way that I did,because having this like
(40:40):
non-judgmental kind of on-demandtool that was able to just like
brainstorm with me and work withme and rewrite things and like
really figure out like how arewe getting down to this like
messaging or how are we gonnadesign this better, how are we
gonna do this?
It really was like havinganother person who's consulting
with me on the whole thing, butwouldn't have been so amazing if
(41:03):
I didn't have the brand workthat was done prior to.
So it really was this beautifulkind of melding.
I've been a marketer for years.
That was my degree in college,and I started designing websites
when I was 14.
So this is my jams.
I've been doing this for a very,very long time.
It was kind of amazing to belike, oh my gosh, this beautiful
brand work can now be executedso much more effortlessly and
(41:25):
more beautifully with AI.
So it's not the devil, but I dothink we're in interesting times
where it's being used for eviland also being used just
sloppily.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
Yeah.
I something that surfaced for mewhen you were just saying that
was um the reaction that I'veseen a lot of times having done,
you know, upwards of almost ahundred-page brand standards
because it's a really large, youknow, brokerage that covers a
region.
There is often a it a little bitof a panic moment, anxiety
(42:01):
attack when you when you arepassing the the the mail
everything over, and the clientsare like, oh dear God, like I
don't know what to do next.
I don't know what to do nextbecause they've been handheld
through this process the wholetime, and then all of a sudden
they get this thing, it allfeels so serious and so scary.
And what you just said is likethere is now this threshold at
(42:25):
the end that is excitement anduh a readiness to just get
going.
And I'm really happy to hearthat.
Like it's it feels like a betteroutcome has has arrived finally
for this type of work.
SPEAKER_02 (42:40):
Especially because I I know you guys work with big
brokerages or big companies, butwhen you're dealing with a small
business, like you have limitedresources, you are already
investing in a rebrand.
So sometimes it's hard to havethe resources to hire a graphic
designer, hire a projectmanager, get this extra staff to
get it going.
But honestly, I went in,uploaded the brand standards,
(43:01):
all of that.
And then it was like, all right,I need to rebrand City Chic Real
Estate to Reverie Residential,walk me through it.
And AI literally was like myproject manager for it.
And I'm the graphic designer,which is great.
I love doing it.
But it was like, here's all theback ends, like what backend
software do you use?
And like it was walking methrough like all of the things
(43:21):
that I needed to go through.
And I'm telling you, this wouldhave taken me months, like six
months at least.
And I was able to execute it ina month and a half because of
AI.
SPEAKER_01 (43:33):
So yeah, we delivered we delivered the brain
stand at the end of August,right?
Yes, and you lost it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
At the end of August, October 8th, everything
was done.
So I know it's bananas, like,and I wasn't working, you know,
the weekends.
I wasn't like burning out.
I have three kids.
Like my husband would definitelynot tolerate that.
And so it was, I was workingnormal hours and I just got it
done.
And it is really cool that we'rein this new era.
(44:00):
And like, I mean, I could evensee you guys like having your
2-0 studio like post branddelivery GPT, where you're like,
here's what you gotta do.
Like, yeah, you plug it on,like, here's your offboarding
process, and it could literallybe run by AI, which is
incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (44:17):
Yeah.
You definitely got us thinkinguh since we had that discussion
about how to better set thingsup in this new environment for
the next phase of work, which isexecution.
It is launch, it is putting itout there, it is the promotion,
it is all of that stuff.
(44:38):
I think we understand the valueof the tools that you know, all
of the things that we provideout of this process, but may not
consider how to enhance andamplify the power of those
tools.
SPEAKER_02 (44:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
So it's been really interesting to discuss the
possibilities there.
SPEAKER_02 (44:56):
Well, I'm all about collaboration in all its forms.
Thank you guys so much forcoming on the podcast.
This would hit all of myfavorite buttons AI, marketing,
branding.
It's so good.
SPEAKER_00 (45:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (45:11):
This was so fun.
We I feel like we could talkabout this stuff all day.
I know.
So yeah, this was a blast.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (45:19):
Thanks, guys.
If you want to learn more about2.0 studios, you can find them
on the web at 2o tu.studio.
Also, if you're curious aboutcustom GPTs that we talked
about, you can check out mycustom chat GPT for real estate
class online at happyagent.coslash academy.
Today, I'm sitting down with Patrick Sanders and
Darcy Walker of 20 Studio, theboutique branding firm behind my
brokerage rebrand from City ChicReal Estate to Reverie
Residential.
If you have ever wondered whattruly goes into building a real
brand, not just picking colorsand a logo and fonts, you're
going to love this conversation.
(00:56):
We talk through what acomprehensive brand package
actually includes, how to thinkabout branding as a real estate
professional, and why it's somuch more than aesthetics.
Let's dive into the interview.
I want to start the conversationby asking you guys, what do you
think a brand is?
And what do you think thepurpose of a brand is?
SPEAKER_04 (01:19):
I think there's a lot of different things that
people say when they talk aboutwhat a brand is.
And for me, one piece of it, Ithink, is a feeling.
So it's like the feeling thatyou get when you think about X
company, the feeling you getwhen you think about Nike, or
Nike's always the best example.
(01:40):
Like with Nike, the promise isperformance, right?
You want to buy from Nike whenyou want to have that like
January 1st, like I'm gonna hitthe gym and really like go at
it.
That's Nike, right?
Or the other great example isVolvo.
Volvo is safety.
When you think of Volvo, youthink of just like being
(02:02):
comfortable and safe andcushioned.
So it's the feeling that youget, and it's the feeling you
know you can always get, andthat promise and the consistency
of it.
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
I really like that because it's kind of jives with
what I feel like a brand is too.
I feel like it's the promisethat the company is making to
the consumer, and it's howyou're communicating that
promise.
So it's the words, it's thevisuals, and it's all of those
things.
So it's like not only is it likemaking the client feel something
or the consumer feel something,but it's also communicating what
(02:35):
they're going to get when theywork with you.
So I think like we're on thesame page about that.
In the real estate industry, somuch of it is just like what's
your logo and what's yourcolors.
And I just think that that's thebiggest misconception.
And it's why I was so excited tohave this conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
I would also say, too, like if you just think
about what we were just talkingabout, like the things that
happen for brands that fail areusually because they've broken
that promise.
So it's like if you think aboutit from the other way around,
that understanding of what theystand for and their principles,
their values, whatever you kindof want to label that, it really
matters.
(03:10):
The misconception that a logo ora color palette is a brand, you
know, that's one ingredient.
But really the thing thatmatters the most and actually
establishing that kind of rentin someone's mind comes down to
the feelings that you're givingthem.
What goes into a rebrand or abranding exercise to begin with
is, you know, on your part,Lindsay, on the client side, the
(03:31):
brand side, you need a lot ofcourage to be honest, to be
candid, to be raw, but toactually really be vulnerable in
terms of exposing the thingsthat really matter to you and
your brand.
And then you synthesize all ofthat down into the things that
really seem to be distinct,memorable, ownable, true.
(03:51):
You want to get all the tablestakes just pushed aside, get
through the stuff that everyonecan claim and really zone in on
the things that make youspecial.
And honestly, that means thatyour brand isn't going to be for
everybody.
It's really understanding whoyou're trying to reach.
Because I think, especially inreal estate, having spent a lot
of time uh with brokerages andagents, there's a tendency to
(04:16):
kind of try to be mass appeal.
And you can do that, but whathappens is that your brand
becomes pretty thin.
It's kind of like a veneer onsomething where it's just like
the minute you start to dig anydeeper, there's nothing really
there.
And oftentimes there could be,but it's just like we want to be
liked by everybody.
(04:36):
And you know, that's just nothow this works.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Right.
And like I think that there'sdefinitely the layers of
branding and real estate whereif you have the big behemoths
like Compass or Codelbanker orKeller Williams, they're almost
like a canvas that the agent hasto paint on.
They have to be flexible enoughthat thousands, hundreds of
thousands of agents can paint onthat canvas.
(05:01):
Whereas if you're a boutique oran independent and you are more
niche in terms of maybe clientsyou serve or agents that you
serve, I do feel like brandingbecomes that much more important
to be able to stand out in themarketplace because you do need
to stand out in that sea ofsameness.
And I think that that's whereboutique and independent
brokerages or even just agentteams or even agents with their
(05:25):
own brand.
It's like that's how you canreally differentiate yourself
against these big corporateidentities, is by like really
leaning into what makes youdifferent.
And I think that that was reallya great thing that you guys did
in your process, which is likestarting with that discovery of
what do you stand for?
What makes you different?
(05:45):
So the discovery process withyou guys, I thought was really
fun and also super interestingbecause you asked such great
questions.
And I actually really had noidea where we were gonna go with
this.
To give everybody some context,I basically was like, I need to
rebrand City Chic Real Estatebecause we are not just the city
(06:09):
anymore.
We are really the suburbs in themetro DC area.
And then I'm also I opened anoffice in New Hampshire and I
wanted everything to be underthe same brand umbrella.
So City Chic doesn't really workin New Hampshire.
It's like country chic, andwe're not doing that.
I wanted to come to you guyswhere I was like, all right,
here's the challenge.
Our clients have changed, theagents we want to attract have
(06:32):
changed, and our geographiclocation is also expanding and
changing.
And here's, I'm like dumpingthis all in your lap.
So it started with thediscovery, and I'm like, I got a
challenge.
What are you guys gonna do?
So I'm curious to like get inyour minds a little bit about
like what are your goals fromyour point of view?
(06:53):
What is the discovery phase allabout?
And what do you feel like makesit successful?
SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
Well, I will start with the fact that uh you also
brought with us the challenges,you brought an incredible name.
And immediately Darcy and I werejust hooked.
SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Like Oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Yeah, I mean, the the concept was there.
And I think going intoDiscovery, it was like, I really
hope this is substantiated withsomething meaningful.
And so as soon as we startedhaving conversations, you
brought a very kind of candid,composed uh authenticity to
(07:39):
every question.
You were not afraid to just gothere.
In doing so, you kind of revealweaknesses and challenges that
you've been facing, mistakesthat you've made, the
aspirations you have foryourself and your life and your
brand and your company.
Coming out of that, it's our jobto really comb through those
things.
Having participated in so manydiscoveries across so many
(08:01):
different types of businessesand industries, the goal from
our side is to just come with anintense curiosity and the
ability to decipher through thethings that just feel like not
unique.
You kept giving us these thingsthat were just so interesting
and vastly different than I haveever heard in any discovery for
a brokerage.
(08:23):
The layer of touch points thatyou have with your agents is
special, first of all, but alsothings that you just would not
expect to hear.
As we're thinking about reveriein this really emotive space,
you started to substantiate thatwith like, you know, we do dream
journaling at our retreats.
We talk about uh putting outintentions.
(08:44):
It's like all of these thingsthat were like, oh my God, this
is gonna be a true story.
Like, this is gonna be a realtrue story.
And the potential that name hadto really kind of stand for
something, um, I think just madeus even more eager to kind of
like figure out all of thefacets to how you exercise this
kind of like again, it's buyingand selling at the very base of
(09:08):
it, it's buying and selling, youknow, a house.
You're helping folks, you know,uh achieve this milestone.
But the way in which Reveriesupports that in terms of really
going there in terms of thedaydreaming aspects, that kind
of like really fuzzy, etherealfeeling that everybody has,
(09:29):
every single person, no matterwhat, it's like this is a really
cool territory.
Like, uh, you know, I think fromthe manifesto to really
understanding that very purecore message, there was just
like it was a goosebumps a lotof the times, just going like,
oh, this is just gonna be likeincredible.
SPEAKER_04 (09:48):
I fully cosign everything you just said, and I
would just add you come at itfrom more of a design, you think
about things visually, I'm comeat it from a messaging angle.
And I think for me, what'sprobably not evident to people
who aren't inside the process isjust how like not groundbreaking
(10:11):
it feels when you're doing it.
It's very journalistic innature, and I think of it more
as like if you were gonna go outand cover a news story, you go
and seek out as much informationas you can gather on the topic,
and then there's sort of anarrative that starts to reveal
itself that you don't have to,the only work you have to do is
(10:34):
get the information out.
And so for me, that's reallywhat discovery is it's pulling
all that information out of youand pushing.
I mean, in your case, you therewas not a lot of pushing because
you just were so open andwilling to go there, but pushing
you to like go deeper and digdeeper and really like what why
(10:54):
are you here?
Why do you do this?
Because there's some sort ofdeep personal story that got you
to where you are today that'sdriving that.
And so it's just a matter ofuncovering that, and then the
narrative starts to revealitself.
And that's really whatdiscovery's all about for me.
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
I didn't have any preconceived notions coming into
it, but what I really loved islike you guys did a really good
job of just like distilling allthe information that I gave you
into the framework.
And so it was distilled intolike that core belief, that core
belief that every brand has.
And if you don't have one, youshould have one.
But it's like ours is everydream is realistic.
(11:30):
And from that, you buildbasically like it's it's like a
cake.
We're like putting some morefrosting, maybe another layer of
cake, and then a frosting onthat, and then like a layer and
some frosting.
And so it was really cool to seefrom my perspective as someone
who like really had noexpectations, that you really
could distill it down to thatcore belief.
And then from that, it was likeeverything just kind of unfolded
(11:54):
and expanded.
But I think what so many peopledon't realize is that that was
all based on this really simplecore belief of Reverie
Residential.
So I thought that was like kindof amazing, and also something I
didn't really understand goinginto it is that we were gonna
(12:15):
like boil this down like maplesyrup.
Like it was gonna get like realboiled, and then you just
distilled it.
SPEAKER_03 (12:21):
And I'm like, oh, this is like so great.
This makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Yeah.
And if you to go back to thevery first statement you made
about like the misconception ofwhat branding is and your kind
of you know, cake analogy, ifthe core message is the very
base ingredient of that, we'rethe logo, that's the outside
(13:12):
icing layer.
You know, it's the thing thatpeople interact with on the
outside.
And that core truth, that coremessage, that DNA of the brand,
uh, I think for Reverie wasreally good though.
I mean, just because it's likecomparing and balancing out
dreams and realism in onelittle, I mean, it's just such a
great place to start from.
(13:33):
So getting down to that reallyclear synthesis and
distillation, if it's true andit's unique and it's special,
everything else can't help butbe special.
SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
The cake analogy just reminded me of a metaphor.
You've heard of a confetti cake,right?
Everyone's had confetti cake.
If you put sprinkles on top ofthe cake, it's not confetti
cake.
The sprinkles have to be bakedin.
And that's how I think of theprocess is like we have to find
the sprinkles and bake them intothe cake before we have the
batter.
It's not just sprinkling thingson top.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
It is that core belief, it's the flavor of your
cake.
Just it's like baked in throughand through.
Like you can't change achocolate cake to be vanilla
cake.
So you better like that flavorbecause it is gonna be in
everything.
Every bite is gonna have thatflavor.
SPEAKER_04 (14:21):
And to that point, too, because I think something
when you're uncovering the corebelief, it's one part
uncovering, but it's also like Ithink sometimes people will make
the mistake of not personalizingtheir core belief enough.
And what works so well withyours is it's your if your core
(14:41):
belief is your dreams arerealistic.
That's not something that likethat's something you have to
prove, right?
That's not something thateveryone is just going to be
here and say, oh yeah, ofcourse.
That that's like a stake in theground, that's like a picket
sign you're holding up that youthen get to prove.
That's very personal.
And Patrick was saying it hasthis sort of unexpected duality
(15:05):
to it.
We're not just adhering dreamsand real in the same sentence.
And so that uniqueness rooted inauthenticity, is what makes it
work so well.
Well, I have you guys to thankfor that.
You are the one that does theyou do the hard work.
We just reflect back at you whatyou have shown us.
Yeah.
So it's it's you're the one thathas done the work.
(15:26):
We are not to thank for that.
We're just the mirror.
SPEAKER_03 (15:28):
I think you guys do a great job, and I look
beautiful.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
A lot of clients refer to discovery through like
our lens and process as liketherapy.
Like it's just like brandtherapy because you've got to go
there, you know?
And it's really our job as kindof the practitioners of that
process to just really make surethat we are doing our best to
genuinely reflect, like Darcysaid, everything we're hearing
(15:54):
into that through that lens ofhow people will interact and
interpret this brand.
SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
So, for those of you listening, Patrick is more of
like visual identity and Darcyis like messaging queen.
So, Darcy, we've headed intolike messaging hardcore for our
ideal avatars, like clientavatar and agent avatar.
So, walk me through themessaging layer of the cake.
(16:20):
Because I'm actually loving thisanalogy.
So, we did like the base layerof the cake, and now we're going
to the messaging layer of thiscake.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
I'm gonna do my best to try to think over here on
some more cake.
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
Yeah, I'm gonna go get cake after this, probably.
SPEAKER_04 (16:33):
Or we're gonna watch Is It Cake on Netflix.
Oh wow, I know.
And probably that's a negativebrand analogy.
It really didn't make that workfor me.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:43):
Well, so messaging, again, the process of it feels a
lot more scientific and logicalthan I think a lot of people
would expect.
Once we have your core messageand we know what you stand for
without thinking about theoutside world, we know what you
stand for.
Then the next piece of that isokay, who are the people I need
and want to talk to?
(17:03):
Who are my customers?
We went through the process ofranking your customers, who's
your primary customer, what arethey like?
Like what keeps them up atnight?
Where are they in life?
What are their challenges?
What are their goals?
What are their fears?
And really understanding thempsychographically.
So, you know, they might not be,depending on how we define them
(17:26):
or what they're going through,they might not be in the same
age group, but they certainlydeal with the same struggle.
And because of that, we canmessage to them in a way that
speaks to them.
So identified your audiences.
And then the next piece of thatis really just taking that core
message and based on what weknow about them, translating it
(17:49):
in a way that they'llunderstand.
And the way I like to thinkabout this with the best
metaphor I have is not cake,unfortunately, but it's
language.
I know.
I'm sure if I worked on it, Icould find one.
But it's like language, right?
If I go to Lebanon, I'm notgonna talk to someone in
English.
I'm gonna talk to them inLebanese if I know how to speak
(18:11):
Lebanese theoretically.
I'll say the same thing to themas I'm saying to you right now.
It'll just be in a language thatthey understand.
It's the same thing withmessaging.
We're just translating it intobased on what we know about this
person, how they'll understandus.
So we do that at a high levelwith the core message, and then
based on what we know abouttheir goals and their obstacles.
(18:33):
That's how we basically createour messaging pillars.
SPEAKER_02 (18:35):
For people listening, I think they may not
know what a pillar is.
So can you explain?
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_04 (18:41):
A brand messaging pillar is essentially it's the
easiest way to think about it.
Is I think probably most peopleremember in grade school, you
learn how to write an essay,right?
And you have your top paragraphwhere you sort of like it's your
intro, and then you have themiddle of the essay, and you're
(19:01):
sort of like those are yourproof points to the intro where
you're proving out that firstparagraph, and then you have
your conclusion.
Messaging pillars are thatmiddle paragraph, and your brand
foundation, your core message isthat top paragraph.
So if your core message isdreams are realistic, your
messaging pillars are the threebest arguments you have to
(19:24):
proving that out.
So based on your audience'sneeds and your services, each
pillar is defined by, okay,well, this pillar is how we will
make your dreams realisticthrough strategic planning or
financial planning.
This second pillar is how wewill make your dreams realistic
(19:46):
through selling strategies orbuying strategies and so on and
so on, if that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
I would also say too, like groundbreaking, but
the reason they are calledpillars is because literally
they support your core message.
They support what you stand for.
In some ways, they are thearticulation or the definition
of your promise that you'remaking.
So it's how you can break thatdown.
And like Darcy said, withaudiences, that pillar will be
(20:14):
different for each one of youraudiences, but it's the same
pillar, but it's going to beconveyed differently per that
audience.
SPEAKER_02 (20:23):
Right.
Let's sum it up in like asummary of like a deliverable.
And so our deliverable was wehad obviously like our our core
message.
We had our manifesto.
How do you guys define amanifesto?
It was amazing, by the way.
But like I'm at least like, Ifeel like it's your promise, but
it's like gets people in theirfeels, honestly.
SPEAKER_04 (20:44):
Yeah, I mean I think you have a great definition for
a manifesto, also, and I'mcurious your like because you
then translated into design.
For from my point of view, themanifesto is really it's that
like it's a capstone todiscovery, and it's like the
essence of everything that wethat we collected from you, all
(21:06):
the information.
It's that narrative that wepulled out of it, and it's it
captures the emotion that we gotfrom you throughout the process,
and just yeah, very expressive,emotive couple paragraphs.
unknown (21:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
You hear a lot of people use the term brand story,
and I think that that is it'sconfusing for people because
they, you know, a story is likewell, there's so many different
types.
So many people don't like toread, they don't like to expose
themselves to the world, theydon't, you know, in terms of
like being their true authenticself.
And so, like, if if you're like,you need a brand story, I think
(21:43):
it just it you might agree, butyou don't know how to take the
first step.
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
If there was something that could most
accurately be summarized as abrand story, it would be a
manifesto.
It is just the absolute mostpure narrative of everything
your brand was meant to be andis and is becoming.
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
I love that.
That's so good.
All right, so we had themanifesto, so you we got that
delivered.
Then we had the brand pillars,and then you dove into our three
audiences.
We had two consumer audiencesand one agent-facing audience,
and you basically wrotebeautiful copy for each of those
(22:24):
brand pillars for each ofspecifically for each of those
audiences.
And so I just kind of want togive like everybody an idea of
who's listening, of like all ofthe stuff that gets generated,
because so many people are like,oh, it's just a brand, whatever.
We haven't even gotten to thevisuals yet, Patrick.
We're gonna get to you next.
(22:44):
And then you're going to havethis deliverable of all of the
stuff that you can use.
Oh, we didn't even get intotagline, but for dreams well
lived is a beautiful tagline.
And so you get all of thisbeautiful stuff, and then we're
handing this incredible packageto Patrick, who now gets to use
all of this beautiful languageand work and emotive stuff to
(23:10):
then bring it to life.
And I think, I don't know if youagree, but I think the branding
visuals are the icing on thecake.
It's the pretty decorations onthe outside.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
Yeah.
It tends to be the thing thatmost people are most comfortable
interacting with and talkingabout as well.
Everyone has had at least someconversations about a brand's
logo or a color, whether theylike it or they don't like it.
And we interact with brands somuch throughout our day.
And a lot of those interactionsare just visuals.
(23:41):
We see it.
We don't maybe understand itscore message or its audiences or
what it stands for, but we seeit.
And so I think that's why peopleare just so much more
comfortable talking about it,um, but yeah, all of that
foundational work is critical tobuilding and our architecting a
really special identity becauseI have something to tether the
(24:02):
concepts to.
Without that rich narrative andmeaning, the design work that
goes into establishing what thebrand's look and feel and kind
of tone is uh becomes reallymanufactured.
It really doesn't feel authenticor really tied.
So yeah, I think when we get tothat part, it's the job for the
(24:23):
studio to really presentdifferent pathways that you can
take that really all kind oflead to the same destination,
but in a different way.
And we kind of refer to that asround one.
It's meant to be really wideopen.
We're throwing a lot of ideas inthere.
We're looking at kind of artdirection, uh, just mood,
(24:45):
aesthetics, and then obviouslylike some of the tactical
things, a logo.
What does that logo give us interms of a system, color
palettes?
And the goal uh coming out ofthat is like choose, keep
moving.
While that would be reallybeautiful and really nice, what
tends to happen is that theclient, and in your case, you
(25:07):
and some of your team membersjoined that as well.
Remember?
Yeah, but it really needs tospark conversation, and I think
what it does is it gives you theability now to kind of go, okay,
now I kind of see all thesedifferent avenues, and I have
the words and the vocabulary toreally kind of crystallize what
it is that I want.
(25:29):
So that's what round two is for.
You know, it's for taking theoutcomes from round one and
really refining it down into thenext kind of thing that we can
really evaluate and hone in on.
Because if we just asked you atthe beginning, well, what do you
imagine your brand is gonna looklike?
You don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
No idea.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah.
So really, while it would begreat to think that you we're
gonna come in here and I'm justgonna show you the logo, that's
just never really how it works.
You know, it it's it's it'smore, it's more discovery, it's
more fact-finding, but in a waythat's like really trying to
paint a very clear picture sothat you can really have
(26:08):
everything you need to evaluatehow it's performing, how does it
feel?
Does this stand for you?
Does it feel timeless?
You know, is this something Ican I'm gonna be able to grow
into over time?
I mean, those are really all thethings that we're trying to
explore with round one.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
So I feel like it was a really good experience.
But I'll be honest, round onewas very informative.
I opened my eyes.
I didn't feel like any of themwere the one, but I really do
feel like you had a good spacewhere I could be honest and give
you feedback.
And it felt very collaborative.
Honestly, the whole experiencefelt very collaborative, but I
(26:49):
think design can feel for somereason, because there's actual
visual artifacts, like in theclient perspective, it almost
feels like you're being morejudgy and more mean because it's
like, I don't like that or I dolike that.
Whereas with words, I feel it'sit's like, well, you know, I'd
like to say it in a little bitdifferent way instead of with
(27:11):
visuals.
It's very black and white, likeI hate this color, I don't like
this.
So I feel like that was a littlehard for me because I want to be
constructive.
I'm very blunt.
So I want to really not be toorude, but you were very
professional and you reallyunderstood what I was trying to
say.
And I feel like round two prettymuch knocked it out of the park.
SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
Yeah, I'm very happy to hear you say that it felt
collaborative, that it feltsafe.
I mean, I would say if there wasone thing I would want the
hallmark of Tuo's process to beknown for, it's that.
I really think that anybodygoing through this process, I
hope for you that you're workingwith people who don't take this
(28:00):
so seriously and reallyunderstand that they're creating
for you.
Um, and this isn't an exercisein creating something for our
portfolio.
That's not the way this shouldgo.
I think in round one, you'reyou're generating concepts and
ideas, and the goal of that isnot to be right or to have one
(28:22):
of those ideas win.
The idea is to see how yourespond to those and then hone
in on that right pathway becauseit really is like an inverted
triangle.
We start way wide, and the goalis to keep coming towards that
final destination with everybodyin tow, everybody aligned,
everyone feeling excited, youknow.
(28:43):
And so I can't, from myperspective, go into a process
like this trying to be the onethat is right.
I'm I'm trying to surface thingsthat make you feel empowered to
describe and to articulate thevision you're having.
And so again, it's still just itis like creating things, but the
process is still justfact-finding.
(29:05):
It's still trying to surfacethings that we can work with.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Beautifully said.
Yes.
So, what mistakes do you feellike people make when they are
pursuing or thinking about arebrand or a brand, just like
developing a brand in general?
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
I think that I'll answer from a look and feel
perspective, maybe an identityperspective.
I think that some people havethe expectation or the goal to
look like another brand or toaspire to, I wouldn't say
copycat, because I think mostpeople are like, no, I don't
want to do that.
But I think they end up thentrying to be something else
(29:48):
because they see it assuccessful or they see it as
maybe aspirational.
So they come into it already,not really with a clear mind or
a clear headspace in terms ofwhat it is that this should be
doing, like how it shouldperform.
Um, you know, branding is it'slike the difference between
(30:08):
design and art is like art ismeant to be evocative and make
you feel like design is meant toperform and do a job.
So when we think about branddesign, we have to look at it
from that perspective.
And again, like we've coveredkind of at the beginning of our
conversation, in order to kindof do that really well, it's
(30:28):
gotta tap into those coreelements.
And who knows how that's gonnamanifest when we get to design.
You know, there's myriad ways inwhich that thing could come to
life.
But if you already have apre-ordained vision for what it
is you're trying to make it looklike, you're already doing it
the wrong way.
You're already coming at thisand making the process surface
(30:49):
level, and it doesn't allow usto really take you there, which
is what you need to do.
SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
Yeah, you might as well just go into Canva and
create one of their logos.
SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Like, I mean, there's no shame in that game.
Like, if that's where you're atwith your business, that's fine.
But it's not branding.
SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Yeah, and I think from my perspective, it's not
taking the time and not allowingyourself the lack of to sort of
be free of fear and like thefreedom to really like look
inward and figure out what thatcore message is, because it's
(31:33):
easy to get caught up in feelinglike, oh, this is so
wishy-washy, especially at thebeginning when we don't have
visuals yet.
We're just like sort of layingthe groundwork and it's like,
what the hell are we doing?
But the whole point of that isthat that message is what makes
your brand strong, becausebrands are like we said at the
beginning, a strong brand isconsistent.
(31:56):
And so for Nike, their coremessage is if you have a body
you're an athlete.
The only place you see if youhave a body year an athlete is
if you dig on their website, orif you go to their offices, it's
like big on the wall in thebreak room.
But if you watch, I challengeanyone to go on YouTube and look
at any Nike ad, like literally,I do it once a month just to
(32:19):
make sure that this is stillvalid.
And it always is.
If you think about thestatement, if you have a body or
an athlete and watch anythingfrom Nike, you can see where
that message is the startingpoint.
And so it's really like thebiggest mistake is just not
starting from there because thenyou're not setting yourself up
for longevity, setting yourselfup to deliver on the promise.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Yeah, you didn't figure out what the flavor of
your cake should be.
SPEAKER_04 (32:45):
And like if the cake is not that flavor, I don't want
chocolate cake if I think I'mgetting vanilla.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
I think we need to defined what a is it cake is
actually.
So is it if it's not cake, itjust looks like a cake, but it
isn't.
SPEAKER_02 (33:00):
Yeah, when you cut into it, there is no flavor or
there is no core method orbelief.
The calories are empty.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
They are empty calories.
It makes me so sad.
I want to eat that cake.
Oh my gosh.
Whoa.
Are you final thoughts onbranding?
This has been like brand nerdcentral and I've loved it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Uh you know, I think Darcy and I were having an
interesting conversation overthe past few days.
It was really sparked bysomething you had said in terms
of like things that you're doingwith some of your agents that
you're coaching and um talkingabout AI, everyone's talking
about AI.
And I think that you hear a lotuh about how so many industries
(33:47):
and crafts and jobs and careersare going to be obsolete.
Um, it's easy to think that ourroles are going to become
obsolete, you know.
But I think one of the thingsthat makes me feel really good
about that is how essential thework that we do together with
our clients is in actuallymaking AI perform for you.
(34:12):
So it's like it is a tool and itis only as good as what you put
into it.
In some there's there'sobviously use cases where that
isn't true.
It's giving you more than you'regiving it.
Um, but this is not that casebecause at least right now, you
know, AI can't define your brandfor you.
(34:32):
It can't tap into your brand.
It cannot extrapolate the thingsthat you're not saying.
You know, it's using outside andexternal sources to basically
answer your questions.
Um but you like you can onlyanswer those questions.
So it's like it is a veryexciting time for a lot of
(34:53):
companies and individuals andorganizations.
But I think that this work islike critical in terms of how it
can help you.
Because once you are able togive it every ingredient that
you've got, it allows you toreally bake as many damn cakes
as you want.
SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
Like I plugged in the brand guide that you gave
me.
So the PDF brand guide, which islike 50 pages, so wonderful.
And I plugged it into a customGPT.
So basically, it's like theReverie residential brand GPT on
Chat GPT.
And it really like it knows themanifesto, it knows our tagline,
(35:35):
it knows our brand voice, itknows all of our client avatars,
it knows our agent avatars, itknows everything that is in that
brand guide.
Like that really is just likethis extension of this like
amazing work that you guys did.
Could AI have created that?
I don't think so.
But now that it's been createdand it's wonderful, it is a tool
(35:56):
that AI can use to then help usbe more efficient and get things
out into the world.
Like I did a rebrand five yearsago, but that was so different
in terms of execution andgetting the rebrand out into the
world.
Post like in our in the AIworld, the launching of
(36:17):
everything has become so mucheasier because I'm now able to
be like, I need to create ourhomepage.
Like, let's kind of riff on thattogether.
And it's taking into account allof the stuff that we've put in
with the brand guide.
And so I'm not gonna say it'sperfect, but it is almost like
(36:37):
an extension of the brand, likebecause it already knows
everything, all that hard workwe've done.
So it's like, I'm gonna say,like, it is like AI enhanced has
been really great.
But I think the only reason it'sbeen great and has worked really
well is that I had such amazingmaterials that you guys put
(36:58):
together that I was able to thenput into the into AI.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
Yeah, which was very cool to hear when you told us
that I think that's what got ustalking about the future of
brand standards and the kinds ofdeliverables and outputs from
this process.
How does it better set up umcompanies and brands to, you
know, you're essentiallycreating like the universe in
which AI then is like, orwhichever one you're using, it
(37:25):
that is its confines.
That's how it's exploring.
And so it when you said it, Iyou don't see it as artificial,
it's like it's not in that way.
At this point now, it's pullingfrom the universe you've given
it.
SPEAKER_04 (37:37):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Serving back up ideas and riffs off of that
content.
You actually have to direct it.
But what empowers you to directit then is that you've just gone
through the journey.
So now you go, that's not quiteright.
Like that doesn't hit that note.
And again, you have to be thecurator, you've got to be the
creative director for yourbrand.
(37:59):
And going through that journeynot only gives you stuff at the
end, it empowers you then to beable to judge and define what
makes your brand your brand.
SPEAKER_02 (38:10):
Definitely.
I really think we're just in thebeginning phases of this right
now.
And so I don't think AI istaking over anybody's job, but I
think that you are putting yourhead in the sand if you are not
seeing how AI can enhance whatyou are already providing or
what you are already doing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (38:29):
Yeah, it's a productivity tool to increase
your ability to be consistent.
Exactly.
That consistency piece is soimportant, but it only works if
you actually stick to themessaging and stick to the
design.
And so AI just re makes it soeasy to scale that.
It's always human-led, right?
(38:49):
You're the best voice of or andyou know what feels right and
feels wrong because you've gonethrough this process now.
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
I think there's you're the creative director.
I do see it as like it, like I'mthe creative director, and it
can kind of be my brainstormassistant where we just kind of
riff on it together.
So I do think like the AIenhanced or just that, like it
is a productivity tool.
Like, just like you said, like Idon't think it's a lot of people
are like, it's removinghumanity, it's gonna make us all
(39:18):
inauthentic.
And I'm like, it will do that ifyou let it and if you do that.
But like, I don't feel like it'smade me any less authentic.
And I think it's actually madeit easier for me to get more
authentic content out into theworld.
SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Yeah, you my hope for it is that it gives people
who otherwise didn't have it theconfidence to selves and to try
things and to kind of put thoselike statements about, well, I'm
just not creative, or I justthat's not me.
Like that's you.
It's like everyone has that theinnate ability, it's just
(39:55):
covered up in likeself-perception and fear and
anxiety to you know exercisethat muscle.
SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
My hope is that this allows more of that expression
to happen because you've gotthis like you know, very benign,
safe um partner who's just gonnaamp you up.
SPEAKER_02 (40:18):
Non-judgmental, it really is.
And like you can put anything inand you can just like riff
around, like, like just playwith it.
I don't think five years ago,without AI, I would have been
able to like execute the brandthat you guys so beautifully
created in the way that I did,because having this like
(40:40):
non-judgmental kind of on-demandtool that was able to just like
brainstorm with me and work withme and rewrite things and like
really figure out like how arewe getting down to this like
messaging or how are we gonnadesign this better, how are we
gonna do this?
It really was like havinganother person who's consulting
with me on the whole thing, butwouldn't have been so amazing if
(41:03):
I didn't have the brand workthat was done prior to.
So it really was this beautifulkind of melding.
I've been a marketer for years.
That was my degree in college,and I started designing websites
when I was 14.
So this is my jams.
I've been doing this for a very,very long time.
It was kind of amazing to belike, oh my gosh, this beautiful
brand work can now be executedso much more effortlessly and
(41:25):
more beautifully with AI.
So it's not the devil, but I dothink we're in interesting times
where it's being used for eviland also being used just
sloppily.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
Yeah.
I something that surfaced for mewhen you were just saying that
was um the reaction that I'veseen a lot of times having done,
you know, upwards of almost ahundred-page brand standards
because it's a really large, youknow, brokerage that covers a
region.
There is often a it a little bitof a panic moment, anxiety
(42:01):
attack when you when you arepassing the the the mail
everything over, and the clientsare like, oh dear God, like I
don't know what to do next.
I don't know what to do nextbecause they've been handheld
through this process the wholetime, and then all of a sudden
they get this thing, it allfeels so serious and so scary.
And what you just said is likethere is now this threshold at
(42:25):
the end that is excitement anduh a readiness to just get
going.
And I'm really happy to hearthat.
Like it's it feels like a betteroutcome has has arrived finally
for this type of work.
SPEAKER_02 (42:40):
Especially because I I know you guys work with big
brokerages or big companies, butwhen you're dealing with a small
business, like you have limitedresources, you are already
investing in a rebrand.
So sometimes it's hard to havethe resources to hire a graphic
designer, hire a projectmanager, get this extra staff to
get it going.
But honestly, I went in,uploaded the brand standards,
(43:01):
all of that.
And then it was like, all right,I need to rebrand City Chic Real
Estate to Reverie Residential,walk me through it.
And AI literally was like myproject manager for it.
And I'm the graphic designer,which is great.
I love doing it.
But it was like, here's all theback ends, like what backend
software do you use?
And like it was walking methrough like all of the things
(43:21):
that I needed to go through.
And I'm telling you, this wouldhave taken me months, like six
months at least.
And I was able to execute it ina month and a half because of
AI.
SPEAKER_01 (43:33):
So yeah, we delivered we delivered the brain
stand at the end of August,right?
Yes, and you lost it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
At the end of August, October 8th, everything
was done.
So I know it's bananas, like,and I wasn't working, you know,
the weekends.
I wasn't like burning out.
I have three kids.
Like my husband would definitelynot tolerate that.
And so it was, I was workingnormal hours and I just got it
done.
And it is really cool that we'rein this new era.
(44:00):
And like, I mean, I could evensee you guys like having your
2-0 studio like post branddelivery GPT, where you're like,
here's what you gotta do.
Like, yeah, you plug it on,like, here's your offboarding
process, and it could literallybe run by AI, which is
incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (44:17):
Yeah.
You definitely got us thinkinguh since we had that discussion
about how to better set thingsup in this new environment for
the next phase of work, which isexecution.
It is launch, it is putting itout there, it is the promotion,
it is all of that stuff.
(44:38):
I think we understand the valueof the tools that you know, all
of the things that we provideout of this process, but may not
consider how to enhance andamplify the power of those
tools.
SPEAKER_02 (44:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
So it's been really interesting to discuss the
possibilities there.
SPEAKER_02 (44:56):
Well, I'm all about collaboration in all its forms.
Thank you guys so much forcoming on the podcast.
This would hit all of myfavorite buttons AI, marketing,
branding.
It's so good.
SPEAKER_00 (45:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (45:11):
This was so fun.
We I feel like we could talkabout this stuff all day.
I know.
So yeah, this was a blast.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (45:19):
Thanks, guys.
If you want to learn more about2.0 studios, you can find them
on the web at 2o tu.studio.
Also, if you're curious aboutcustom GPTs that we talked
about, you can check out mycustom chat GPT for real estate
class online at happyagent.coslash academy.
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