Turning Customers into Superfans with Brittany Hodak

Text the show!

How do you turn everyday customers into passionate advocates for your brand?

Brittany Hodak breaks down her SUPER Model for customer experience, shares her famous 5 A’s of an effective apology, and explains why apathy is the biggest threat to your business.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why you want customers to become superfans
• How customer apathy is the real risk to your business
• One bad touchpoint can cost years of revenue
• Brittany's SUPER Model CX playbook
• Why the Platinum Rule is much better than the Golden Rule
• How to craft a great apology

Be sure to check out Brittany's book, Creating Superfans, and her Six Weeks to Superfans Masterclass!

We want to hear from you! Share your support stories and questions with us at [e-mail]!

To learn more about Buzzsprout visit Buzzsprout.com.

Thanks for listening!

Episode Transcript

Priscilla (00:00):
Welcome to Happy to Help, a podcast about customer
support from the people atBuzzsprout.
I'm your host, PriscillaBrooke.
Today we're talking aboutcreating superfans.
We'll discuss why superfans areessential to your business and
how you can offer super customerexperiences and turn loyal
customers into lifelongadvocates.
Thanks for joining us.

(00:20):
Let's get into it.
Today is going to be a reallyfun episode.
I'm really excited.
We have an incredible guesttoday.
Joining us is Brittany Hodak.
She is a keynote speaker, abusiness leader, and the author

of Creating Superfans (00:34):
How to Turn Your Customers into
Lifelong Advocates.
She has published more than 350articles for a variety of
national media, including shehas columns in Forbes and
AdWeek.
For the last two decades, shehas studied, researched, and
written about the phenomenon offandom.
And today she's joining us totalk about how fandom can impact

(00:58):
your brand and how we ascustomer support specialists can
focus on creating super fans inorder to set our brands apart.
So I'm really excited.
Thank you for joining us,Britney.
This is gonna be a lot of fun.

Brittany (01:10):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Priscilla.
This is gonna be great.

Priscilla (01:12):
Yeah.
So we in customer support roleshave the opportunity every day
to positively impact ourcustomers.
That's one of the cool thingsabout this job, we have hundreds
of people at our disposal tomake their days better.
And so one thing we like tostart off with on this podcast
is sharing a story about howsomeone has positively impacted

(01:32):
our day.
So, Brittany, do you have astory of someone who has made
your day recently?

Brittany (01:38):
Yeah, you know, just it's been about a week ago now.
I was flying.
So I fly all the time for myjob.
I'm a keynote speaker.
I travel multiple times mostweeks, and I was renting a car
so that I could drive from oneevent to another event.
And it was my first time usinga new service called Avis First.
Okay.
Where it's basically likeconcierge's car rental, where

(01:58):
someone meets you at the curb,gives you the keys, says, have a
great day.
And then when you're done, meetyou curbside again to take your
car back from you, like go fillit up, return it.
So you never like you just walkout of the airport.
There is no like going to therental car center.
It was so delightful.
Like, when is the last time yourented a car and said, that was
amazing?
Yeah.

(02:18):
The agent's name was Hannah.
She was texting with me beforeI dropped the car off.
Fun fact, I made thereservation like normal.
And then it was asking for thereturn flight.
And I put like the same dayinstead of the next day.
And so Hannah was like, Hey, doyou actually just want the car
for like two hours?
Or did you mean to get it for26 hours?
I was like, definitely thesecond.

(02:38):
Um, but she was delightful.
Like it was such a greatexperience.
I never want to go back to whatis now in mind, the like
archaic old way to rent a carever again.

Priscilla (02:47):
That's such a good experience, such a good story.
Yeah.
I love the fact that you weretexting with her, that like ease
of communication, because I'mlike, oh man, how are you gonna
meet up with that person?
You're like trying to sendemails, but having like a quick
text conversation back and forthwith the agent, that's awesome.

Brittany (03:01):
Yep.
She texted me right before myflight took off.
She was like, Hey, I see you'regonna be landing in like 90
minutes.
Once you get there, like walkjust to the arrivals, send us a
text when you're getting off theairplane because it's gonna
take us like 10 minutes to driveover.
So if you text us when you'rewalking off your airplane, we
should be getting to arrivalsaround the same time as you do.
Wow.

Jordan (03:20):
And it was perfect.
That's the kind ofcommunication I get when like my
friends text me that they'regonna pick me up from the
airport.

Brittany (03:26):
It was legit better than when I try to coordinate
with my husband because we livelike half an hour from the
airport and he'll he'll be like,okay, I'm watching your flight
and only, but he like neverleaves on time.
So I'm always sort of just likewaiting for a while.
No, Avis, both times they werethere waiting on me.

Priscilla (03:40):
Like it was it was great.
So props to Avis first.
Yeah, I was gonna say, lasttime I went to the airport to
pick someone up, I had to circlelike 15 times.
So I totally get what you mean.
It's like sometimes it's harderfor us to communicate, but it's
that sounds great that she wasable to do it and she had it
down 10 minutes and she knewshe'd be there.
That's awesome.
That's so cool.
So before we get intodiscussing super fans

(04:00):
specifically, I'd love for ourlisteners to just get to know
you a little bit more, Brittany,and a little bit more about
your background.
So can you share a little bitabout your career experience and
how you kind of found yourselfinterested in exploring fandom
and what that looks like?
Yeah, of course.

Brittany (04:15):
So I always wanted to work in the music industry.
Like from the time I was alittle girl, that's what I
wanted to do.
And when I was 16, I went onwhat they called a job shadow
day, which was basically like ago spend a day somewhere, see if
you like it at the radiostation.
And I said, please hire me.
I will do absolutely anything.
I just want to work here.
And they said, Well, you looklike you're about the right size
for the mascot suit.

(04:35):
And I said, Great, I'll do it.
Like, I'll take it.
And so as a, I think it was ajunior, I don't know, sophomore
junior in high school, whateverit was, it became my job to like
dress up as sting the bee andgo to all of the radio station
events.
I loved it.
I thought it was the best job,the coolest job, not just
because I got free CDs andconcert tickets, but because I
had this like front row view offandom and people who were

(04:58):
obsessed with the station or theDJs or the artists that we
played.
And I really started thinkingabout like, why do some artists
become the biggest bands in theworld and others go away?
Like they're one hit wonders,or they never have a hit because
it doesn't seem like it'sdirectly in correlation to the
talent or the marketing budgetor the effort that's put in by

(05:21):
the label, like it felt likethere was something else because
when all of those variableswere the same, there was still
this like dramatic difference inthe success ratio.
And what I started to see againand again and again, and I went
on to intern at several labelsand then work for several record
companies.
But after I graduated college,I moved to New York.

(05:41):
I worked for Sony, I worked forWarner Brothers.
And what I saw again and againand again was the artists who
had the most success, not justinitially but long term, were
the ones who had the bestconnections with their fans.
They cared about their fans.
They weren't like, I'm justhere to make art and I don't
care about anything else.
They legitimately connected totheir fans.

(06:02):
And I started thinking aboutthe fact that super fandom is a
two-way street.
And if you want people to careabout you, you have to care
about them.
And it's true in the musicindustry, but it's also
obviously true in every otherindustry.
And so I became sort ofobsessed with proving this
theory and showing that if youtreat customer service and
customer care not as a costcenter, but as an opportunity to

(06:25):
have brand advocates out thereinteracting one-to-one with the
people who know your brand,you're going to have them not
just come back, but tell theirfriends as well.

Priscilla (06:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your history, your experiencesounds like a dream to me.
When I was in high school orwhen I was a kid, I always
wanted to work in the musicindustry.
I thought it was just thecoolest.
And I loved music and livemusic.
So reading through the book andhearing your experience and
your stories from the musicindustry was really fun and
engaging.

(06:54):
And I loved seeing how you tookthat knowledge and you turned
it into this thing so muchbigger than just music and
connecting with fans into somany different industries.
So before we get into thestrategies about how to create
super fans, I'd love for you togive us your definition of a
super fan.

Brittany (07:13):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's so fun.
When I'm on stage, I always askpeople, what do you think of
when you think of superfans?
And the responses are all overthe place.
Like you have people sayingthings like, uh, people who are
obsessed, or people I don't wantto hang out with, or people who
are super loyal.
Like, I mean, just like allover the place.
People talk about sports andmusic and like the old S and L
skit, just so many things.

(07:34):
But I define a super fan as acustomer or stakeholder who is
so delighted in the experiencethey have with a brand, product,
or service that they become anenthusiastic advocate.
And I know that's a mouthful,but there's three important
parts.
So number one, customerstakeholder.
I'm talking about people whoactually know what it's like to

(07:55):
work with you.
So this could be a customer,this could be a vendor, a
supplier, a partner, it could bean employee, but it's somebody
who has firsthand knowledge ofwhat you are like.
And the reason that matters isbecause we all know when we want
to get a referral, like we wantit from somebody who has real
experience.
So that's the first part.
We're not talking about peoplewho are like, oh, I know who
they are.

(08:15):
Maybe one day I'll work withthem.
No, these are like people whohave a financial experience
history with your company.
Number two, they're delightedby their experience.
So we'll talk a little bitlater about what I think is the
biggest threat to every singlebusiness, which is this idea of
apathy and people who becomeapathetic because they have lots
of neutral experiences.
So these are people who aredelighted by their experience,

(08:37):
and we can talk about how toensure that happens.
And then finally, number three,they become an enthusiastic
advocate, which means when theyhave the opportunity to advocate
on your behalf, they do so.
So if they are in a WhatsAppgroup and somebody says, Does
anybody know how to handle this?
Or they see a post in a forumonline, or they hear someone at
an event that they're at saysomething, they speak up.

(09:00):
It's easier for them to referyou in that moment than to
forget you in that moment.
And so that's that third part.
So, in other words, super fansare customers who create more
customers.

Priscilla (09:13):
Oh, I love that.
That's so great.
I saw something in anewsletter.
It was focusing on this idea ofyou're not going to be able to
wow everyone.
You're not going to be able togive everyone amazing
experiences all the time.
So, really, what you want tofocus on is being a steady,
solid thing for your customers.
And I could see that argument,right?

(09:33):
Like, hey, you can't bloweveryone away.
So make sure you're steady andconsistent for the customers you
have there.
But after reading your book, Ifeel like you would probably
disagree with that, especiallywith this idea of super fans and
wanting to create these peoplewho are advocates, like you were
saying, for your brand.
So why do you think now,especially in the world of
advertising, and we have so muchat our fingertips when it comes

(09:56):
to like targeted ads andgetting new customers and all of
that?
Why do you think it's soimportant for brands to invest
in making super fans?

Brittany (10:06):
Well, I think it's because technology is moving so
quickly that I heard anexecutive at Microsoft say on a
podcast recently, like, mediocreis now free.
Anyone on the planet can havelike a pretty good mediocre
experience right now, instantlyfor free.
And the fact that that was sortof the bar, like you said, like

(10:30):
so many people are like, oh,just like do pretty good most of
the time and you'll be betterthan the rest.
Like, maybe that was true 10years ago when a lot of customer
service was awful.
But now, because of how quicklytools are changing, that is no
longer the case.
And I don't know about youguys, but I don't leave a lot of
three-star reviews.
I don't talk to my friendsabout a lot of things that are

(10:54):
just okay.
It becomes instantly forgotten.
It's like, okay, it's like anothing burger and you move on
with your life.
Versus when something doesexceed your expectations, when
something is great, you're gonnaremember and you're gonna tell
people about it.
And so I think that saying justbe good most of the time is a

(11:15):
vestige of a bygone era when thetruth is a lot of things were
harder than they needed to be,took longer than they needed to
be, and kind of sucked.
And people had to put up withit because there weren't a lot
of choices.
But that is not the world welive in anymore.
And in the world that we livein, people very quickly can
decide, you know what?
I don't ever want to dobusiness with you again.
And they can very quickly telleveryone around them that that's

(11:39):
how they feel, whether it'sonline or in real life.
And every single customer todayis an influencer.
We all have people in our liveswho all they need is for us to
say, like, this happened, thisdidn't happen.
And then that is their opinionfrom now on.
They're like, cool, thanks forsaving me the trouble.
I'll never work with thiscompany again.
And that's why customer supportis so critical in this moment,

(12:00):
because you have what I like tocall acting chiefs of
experience.
So many people who engage withyour brand, they're not engaging
with the CMO, the CEO, the CTO,the CIO.
They're talking to somebody onthe front lines, whether that's
at a retail location, whetherthat's answering the phone.
But guess what?
To them, that person is theentire company, the whole

(12:22):
organization.
Yes.
So I call those people actingchiefs of experience.
And they have to, in thatmoment, ace that interaction.
They have to be comfortablerepresenting being the face, the
voice, the name of the entirecompany.
And like that's just thereality now moving forward.
And so mediocre, I don't thinkis okay.

(12:43):
And just sort of like doing thebare minimum to get people to
come back, I think is like not avery inspired way to look at
your business.
I don't think good employeesget excited about just doing the
bare minimum.
And I don't think goodcustomers get excited about
continuing to give their moneyto someone who's doing just the
bare minimum for them.

Priscilla (13:02):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think one of my favoritethings about the book, which you
already touched on, is how muchyou focus on apathy in the
beginning and how big of a rolethat plays in so much of what
you're talking about andcreating super fans.
You said in the book thatapathy is one of the most
underrated problems in businesstoday.
You said companies of all sizesallocate nearly immeasurable

(13:25):
resources, dollars, time,energy, and ideas to chasing new
customers.
Then when they've got thosecustomers, they do an okay job
of taking care of their needs,which naturally leaves customers
apathetic.
So I kind of want to break downapathy with you a little bit
and hear more from you about whythat's such a big risk and why

(13:45):
apathy is something we reallywant to be careful to not get
comfortable in with ourcustomers and accept as being
kind of what we are okay with.

Brittany (13:53):
Well, I think it's because when customers become
apathetic, they see you as acommodity provider, not a
category of one.
And when they look at you as acommodity provider, then it
becomes very natural to makedecisions based on commodity
factors.
Who can give me this thecheapest?
Who can do this for me thefastest?
Not this is why I should bechoosing this brand.

(14:15):
You cease to be a brand and youbecome like a means to an end.
And so when that happens,you're constantly losing
customers because somebody elseis offering something just a
little bit better, a little bitfaster, a little bit cheaper.
And so what happens is thesecompanies spend, like I said in
the book, immeasurable resourceson customer acquisition because

(14:35):
their retention engine isbroke.
And in reality, it is so mucheasier and cheaper to just keep
a customer than it is to replacethat customer who leaves with
another customer.
And support plays such a hugerole, and I think oftentimes
underappreciated role in thathappening, right?
Like if you look at theincentive structures, the pay

(14:56):
structures for people working onacquisition versus retention,
it's oftentimes very lopsided,which is funny in a way, because
the retained revenue is worthso much more than the revenue
that you're constantly having topay to replace with new
revenue.

Priscilla (15:12):
Yeah.
And you think about the peoplein customer support, I feel like
there's such a high turnover alot of times in the customer
support departments.
It does such a disservice toyour customers when you're
constantly having to hire andtrain new people because people
are leaving instead of treatingthose people that you have,
those employees, really well sothat they're able to level up
their service and then providethis incredible experience to

(15:35):
your customers.

Brittany (15:36):
You know, I've been reading a lot of like Sam
Altman's quotes recently aroundAI and customer service.
And, you know, Gartner has saidthat about 80% of common
customer inquiries will be ableto hand be handled totally
autonomously by agents in thenext five years.
And, you know, it's adouble-edged sword.
And while some people aresaying, you know, it's this is
so terrible, it's going toreplace um so many workers.

(15:59):
I think kind of the opposite istrue of it's going to empower
so many people to be able to begreat at their job because they
no longer have to handle thelike, I forgot my password.
How much is my bill?
What does this happen?
Like inquiries, like those goaway.
And so now all of a sudden youdon't have the turnover, you
don't have the constantretraining, you don't have the

(16:19):
people who are like, this jobsucks and I hate it and I would
rather do anything else.
So you can actually focus onhaving people who are higher
trained, higher skilled, and youknow, better equipped to be
that acting chief of experiencefor your brand.

Priscilla (16:33):
Yeah.
I want to start using that withmy team because it really
shows, like you were saying, theweight that a customer service
representative carries.
Like you have a story in thebook where you talk about Costco
and how you had a badexperience with signing up for a
membership and decided not touse Costco.
And I thought when I wasreading it, I don't think I've
ever heard a negative storyabout Costco, but you had a

(16:57):
negative experience with Costco.
And I think it really made thepoint to me that the individual
that we're working with on thecustomer support situation can
make or break the experience ofthat product.
Oh, yeah.
So, in so many experiences, youknow, you hear that Costco is a
great place to work and thatpeople love it and that, you
know, it's always goodexperiences.
And then you hear one wheremaybe it's that the employee had

(17:19):
a bad day, or maybe they werenot trained well for that
specific experience.
But either way, you as thecustomer walked away without
having a bad experience and thenbecame, you know, the opposite
of a super fan to the people inyour circles.
And so it just really goes toshow you that each individual
employee carries a ton ofweight.
And so I like that term as away to remind the people on your

(17:43):
team, your job is reallyimportant and you giving each
customer an incredibleexperience is really necessary
for this brand to continue tothrive.

Brittany (17:52):
I have to tell you, Priscilla, I get more feedback
about that Costco story thanjust about anything else, my
book.
I have like literal strangerswho will buy my book and then
email me and say, listen, youdon't know me, but I just need
you to give Costco anotherchance because I love Costco.
I've had people send me Costcogift cards and I need to.
I like I just travel all thetime.

(18:12):
So I haven't, but in the book,I tell the story about, you
know, I'd never been in aCostco.
Like we didn't have them when Iwas growing up.
I never lived in a city wherewe had Costco.
We moved to Franklin,Tennessee, and we're like, okay,
we got to join one of the bigbox places.
Our Sam's and our Costco areacross the street from each
other, like they are in manycities.
Ours too, yeah.
Yeah.
So we went to Costco firstbecause I was like, I want to

(18:33):
try it out.
And I went and I said, youknow, hey, I'm thinking about
signing up for a membership.
Can I look around?
And I was told very grumpily bythe person at the door that
they don't allow window shoppingand I need to buy a membership
if I want to come in the store.
I was like, okay, that's fine.
Like, whatever.
Everybody says Costco is great.
So I waited in line for areally long time.
Like I, it was 20 minutes, butit felt like hours because I was

(18:54):
pregnant and I had to pee.
And so I finally get to thefront and the person keeps
trying to upsell me.
They're like, Well, you needthe like, you know, whatever
executive membership and allthis.
And I'm like, no, I like I'venever even been in a store.
Like, I just want the basicmembership.
And like six times he was like,Well, do you want to buy new
tires?
Do you want to buy a Disneycruise?
Do you want to whatever?
And I'm like, no, I just want acard.

(19:16):
Like, I want to go pee and Iwant to like buy paper towels.
And so it took so long.
And then I go to pay and hesays, Oh, you can only pay with,
I think it was a Visa.
There's like some card that itwas like, it had to be that
card.
And I was like, oh, hold on.
Like my credit card wasn'tthat.
So I check my debit card and mydebit card was again, I think
it was Visa, whatever.

(19:36):
And so I'm like, here you go.
And as I give him the card topay, he goes, Well, if you
signed up for the CostcoMasterCard or Visa or whatever,
like you would have the card.
Like you should just get themembership that comes with the
credit card.
And that's the point where Iwas like, Get me my card back.
I do not want to shop here.
I'm gonna go pee in yourbathroom and then I'm gonna go
across the street and I'm gonnaget a membership to Sam's Club.

(19:57):
And so I did.
And like the point of the storywas not just like how
frustrating that experience wasand how long that it took, but
the fact that two people made mefeel like, you're not welcome
here.
We don't care if you're here.
We ultimately do not care ifyou like become a member of this
club or not.
And these are the people likeguarding the doors.
Right.
Yeah.
And I was like, yeah, you'relike you're literally making me

(20:18):
feel like you don't want mehere.
And the point of that story inmy book, although, like I said,
it's I I love how many peoplehave said, like, no, Costco's
awesome.
You got to give it another try.
And one of these days I will.
But the point in the book ofthe story was like, when you are
very easy to replace with whatin somebody's mind is an
acceptable solution, they willbe very quick to be like, no
skin off my back, see you never,which is what I did.

(20:40):
Like I went across the street,I got my membership to Sam's
Club, and I was like, cool, I'mgolden.
And it's been eight years, nineyears.
I don't even know.
I've spent tens of thousands ofdollars at Sam's Club and have
never once been like, maybe Ishould rethink that Costco
membership because in my mind,like I it's all the things that
I would probably be gettingthere.
Like my bulk, you know, I likeI think about how much money I

(21:02):
spent just on like diapers andbaby wipes.
Yeah.
That all was spent at Sam's,not Costco, because of a grumpy
person at the door and thensomebody who maybe had been
trained to say, like, you don'tlet somebody join up and get
their membership card until theyanswer 87 questions.
But to me, just felt very, veryuh unnecessary.

(21:25):
And that's part of where thelike emotional intelligence
comes in of the like empathy andthe understanding of yes, you
have to be effective, but youalso have to pay attention to
like the cues that you'regetting.

Priscilla (21:39):
Yes, you have to read the room.
And if someone is clearlytrying to try it out and has
told you they don't want toupsell, then you need to read
that and stop upselling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I thought that was a greatstory.
And I also was surprised, but Ijust think it's so important to
remind people that reallythere's so much power there in
that customer service experiencewhen it comes to getting new

(21:59):
customers and then retainingexisting customers.
Yeah.
So superfans are clearlyimportant to your brand.
They, like you said, set youapart from the competition.
They advocate for you in theircircles of influence, but
creating superfans is not alwaysso easy.
So can you kind of break downyour supermodel for us about how
to create superfans out of yourcustomers?

Brittany (22:21):
Of course.
So it's called the supermodel.
And I wanted to createsomething that would be simple
to remember, simple to sharewith your team, but most
importantly, simple to like keepeach other accountable for to
say, like, are we doing thestandard thing or are we doing
the super thing?
Because every day, everyone onyour team faces that choice
again and again and again.
Am I gonna do the standardthing?
Am I gonna do the super thing?

(22:42):
So super is an acronym.
It stands for start with yourstory, understand your customer
story, personalize, exceedexpectations, and repeat.
And just very quickly, I'llkind of go through them all and
then we can, you know, take theconversation wherever you want.
But so start with your story isall about like, why do you
deserve super fans?
Why should I care about yourcompany?

(23:04):
What is it that you do that'sdistinct and different and
valuable that makes me need tocare?
And then all of the ways thatthat comes to life.
So whether it's verbally,nonverbally, like all of the
cues that are basically tellingsomebody like this is what
they're all about.
They are not a commodityprovider, they are a category of
one, and this is why I shouldcare.
Second, understand yourcustomer story is all about

(23:27):
truly making them feelimportant.
The empathy that goes alongsidethe authority of truly making
those customers feel like theymatter because a lot of times we
don't feel like we matter ascustomers.
We feel like just anothernumber, just another support
ticket, just another call, justanother person trying to get a
Costco card, right?
Like we are made to feel like,yo, this is an operation and

(23:49):
you're a cog.
So how do we truly, inmeaningful moments, even in
those very quick interactions,make someone feel like we see
them as a person?
The third pillar, P stands forpersonalized.
That's all about both the hightech and the high touch things
that we can do to make thosecustomers feel like, yeah, this
is awesome.
Like, why would I ever want togo anywhere else?

(24:10):
They care about me.
E stands for exceedexpectations.
That's all about using theprinciples of what I call in the
book intentional experiencedesign, meaning how do we take
some of those neutral momentsand elevate them to positive
ones?
How do we operationalize thatacross our organization?
So it doesn't matter the day ofthe week, the time of the day,
the time of the month, whateversomebody is coming, even though

(24:32):
there's variations in ourbusiness, there's consistency to
the model.
And then finally, R stands forrepeat.
And that's about the systemsand processes.
That's about how we designsomething.
One of the things that I alwayslove to say is repetition isn't
boring.
It's branding.
Like the way you do thingsagain and again is what becomes
your brand.
And we have to get to a pointto where we recognize that doing

(24:54):
something the 87th time of theday is just as important as you
did it the first time of theday.
Cause that 87th customer isjust as important as that first
customer.

Priscilla (25:04):
Absolutely.
I love that.
I'm a checklist person.
I'm a like to-do list person.
So this is like right up myalley.
Yeah.
I love how simple you laid itout and just how powerful it
really can be when you're goingthrough these interactions and
saying, Have I hit these things?
Like, are these thingshappening here?
So, first I want to talk aboutthe power of storytelling
because really both of the firsttwo, the S and the U, are both

(25:27):
focused on storytelling and thepower of our story and the power
of our customer's story and howwe can connect with customers
in that way through story.
So you wrote in the book,superfans are created at the
intersection of your story andevery customer's story, which I
just think is so powerful.
You know, we were both workingin podcasting.
Jordan and I both work inpodcasting, and podcasting is

(25:49):
all about stories and all abouthow we are connected through
stories.
Can you explain a little bitmore about why stories are so
integral to creating superfansand how that's really something
we can use when we want tocreate these superfans out of
our customers?

Brittany (26:05):
Yeah, it's because when you can connect your story
to the needs, the wants, thedesires of a customer, that is
where they stop being apathetic.
Yeah.
Because all of a sudden, youare that solution.
They have a proof point, astory about it.
Now, we all like to think we'rerational people and we make
these like well-reasoned,well-researched decisions, but

(26:28):
research again and again andagain proves that we're not.
We're emotional beings.
We make decisions based on ourgut, how we feel, what we think.
And stories do a much betterway of activating those circuits
in br in our brains and makingus pay attention because that's
how we've evolved, right?
For tens of thousands of years,humans have evolved to put an

(26:48):
importance on storytellingbecause that is how information
was passed along and recordedlong before there was like
written language.
And so being able to have astory that people will remember
and share.
It's funny.
A girlfriend of mine, her nameis Neen James, and she has a
book that's coming out October14th called Exceptional
Experiences, which is like abrilliant book, plug for Neen.

(27:09):
It's really great.
Um, but I'm looking at rightnow, she sent these like MMs uh
as part of this book launch kitthat she sent me.
And just like 30 seconds ago, Ilooked down at these like
colorful MMs, and they're reallycute.
She made the like littlethere's like champagne on them.
Um but I remembered that when Iwas like 15 or 16, Mr.

(27:30):
Rory, my history teacher, toldus the story about the time he
was on a vacation and I think hewas in Guatemala.
He was somewhere in likeCentral America, I think.
And he lost his passport.
And this was back in like the1980s and maybe the 70s.
And he went to, I don't know,the consulate, the embassy,
wherever you go, and was like,I'm an American citizen, I lost

(27:53):
my passport, what do I do?
And this is before, you know,like any like they had fax
machines, but probably nothingelse.
And he's like, What like whatdo I do?
How do I get home?
And so, in order to prove tothe embassy or consulate,
whatever it was, that he was anAmerican citizen, there were all
these questions that he wasasked.
And it was stuff that anAmerican would know, but like

(28:16):
somebody not from Americawouldn't know.
And so he gave him all thisinformation.
And I, the only question Iremember him telling me, and
maybe he told us more, but hewas asked, what do MMs do?
And of course, the answer wasthey melt in your mouth, not in
your hands.
And the reason that was thequestion was because like anyone
living in America in that timeperiod would know the answer to

(28:38):
that question because the adswere so pervasive.
But if you did not live inAmerica, you were very unlikely
to know the answer to thatquestion because Mars, the
company that owns MMs, wasn'tadvertising outside of the
United States.
And that story has stuck withme.
I don't know why.
I will randomly like once adecade think about it.
But anyway, so my friend Neen,who just sent these like cute

(29:00):
custom MMs, yeah, triggered mymind to think about Mr.
Rory and telling us that coolstory decades ago.
And that's one of the coolthings about storytelling is
that it just lights up yourbrain.
It activates uh your neurons ina way that like facts and
figures and proof points andcase studies just aren't going

(29:21):
to do.
And so the more stories you cantell, the more things that you
can do to connect somethingabout what you do to something
that's interesting orfascinating or important to your
audience, the more likely theyare to remember and retell those
stories.
Like, I do not know where Mr.
Rory is.
Um, it has been years and yearsand years and years and years

(29:41):
since I even saw him.
Um, but like, how cool that inmy brain I'm now thinking, like,
oh man, he was such a nice guyand he used to talk about this
and that and whatever.
And he was like such a fan of,you know, the Constitution, like
all the other things that comeback.
And so for brands, the key isyou don't only want your
customers or Your prospects tothink of you when they need your

(30:03):
solution.
You want to be top of mind morethan that, more often than
that.
And with storytelling, you canincrease the likelihood that you
will.

Priscilla (30:11):
Yeah.
I think it's so powerful.
I think stories are really sopowerful.
How would you recommend thatsupport teams specifically use
storytelling in our day-to-dayconversations with customers?
How can we weave stories in ina way to build that relationship
and find that connection?

Brittany (30:30):
Yeah.
So it's a great question.
In the book, I talk about thisidea of building a story set
list, which are quick, punchygo-to stories that you can tell
again and again based on contextcues.
So if for instance, you hearsomebody like a kid crying in
the background of the call andyou say, like, oh, like how
old's your little one?
And then based on what theysay, whether it's you telling

(30:51):
the story or you saying, like,oh man, well, I know bath time
is probably coming up soon.
Don't worry, like, I'm gonnaget this taken care of as soon
as I can.
Cause I know she needs you morethan I need you right now, or
like whatever.
So just paying attention tothose cues.
If you're working as a supportteam member in person, you get
cues visually, right?
So like maybe the hat somebodyis wearing, the shirt they're

(31:11):
wearing, um, who they have withthem, what they have with them.
And if you have a go-to list ofstories that you know work, and
when I say story, it can besuper quick anecdote.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat's gonna take the time to
resolve the matter, you know,much longer.
It's just how can I make themwalk away feeling like I dealt
with a person who made thisbetter?

(31:34):
Yes.

Priscilla (31:35):
Like keep that humanity in it.
Yes.
It makes the interaction somuch more enjoyable, but you're
right, it leaves this lastingimpression.
One thing we do, you know, forBuzzsprout, most of our support
is done via email.
And one thing that we've kindof done is started putting in
our signatures, instead ofputting our job title, we put
some kind of a personalizationor some kind of a connection

(31:58):
piece.
And so for some people on theteam, it's like a sports-related
thing.
So mine is I'm a big Yankeefan.
And so mine is currentlyobsessing over the New York
Yankees.
And it's so cool because itstarts these conversations with
people who like the team that Ilike when I wouldn't have even
known because we're not talkingabout sports, but it allows
those stories to connect us.

(32:19):
And then sometimes I will havesomeone reach out on a random
Sunday and say, Did you watchthe game yesterday?
How cool that and I'm like,they don't need anything from me
in this email.
They just want to reach out andfollow up on a game because
they thought of the fact thatthat support person for Buzz
Sprout loves the Yankees.
And so I think that's exactlyyeah.

Brittany (32:39):
Like they wouldn't have been thinking about Buzz
Sprout in the eighth inning, butall of a sudden they're like,
Oh, Priscilla, I wonder whatshe's up to.
Is she watching the game?
Exactly.
So you have that halo effect ofall of the positive emotions
that come from humanconnectivity.

Priscilla (32:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and this leads right intothe next piece of this puzzle,
which is personalization, whichis so similar in some ways.
And I think it's the easiestway for us to strengthen our
customer experiences.
It's so easy to make thingspersonal and to bring in that
humanity, like we were talkingabout.
You talk about Dr.
Tony Alessandra's platinumrule, which I had never heard

(33:16):
of.
You talk about that in thebook.
Can you explain what theplatinum rule is and how it's
different from the golden rule,which we so often refer to in
customer support?

Brittany (33:24):
Well, we, you know, we all grew up with the golden
rule, right?
Treat others the way you wantto be treated.
And what Dr.
Alessandra said that Iwholeheartedly believe in is
that that is outdated advice.
You should not treat others theway you want to be treated.
You should treat them the waythey want to be treated.
And the reason that matters isbecause if you think about it,
there are so many people who donot want to be treated the same

(33:47):
way as you.
They may want you to contactthem a different way at a
different time to resolve theirproblem in a different way.
And it is incumbent upon us insupport roles to figure out what
the right answer looks like tothem, what the best support
looks like to them and flex theway we do things.
And is that harder?

(34:07):
Sometimes does that meangetting good at five different
ways to solve a similar problemfor five different groups of
people?
Yeah, but it's worth it becauseyou want to be just as helpful
to a 17-year-old as an87-year-old.
You want to be just as helpfulto somebody like on one side as
somebody on the total polaropposite side of whatever it is

(34:30):
that you're trying to resolve.
So being flexible there is areally great way of saying, I
care about you.
Not like we have one way we dothis, and if you don't like it,
go somewhere else.
But how can I help you solvethis problem in a way that's
gonna feel good for you?

Priscilla (34:45):
Yeah.
No, I think that's so great.
I had never heard of that rulebefore.
And I think it it goes waybeyond support because it's like
every relationship.
I'm like, oh, I know how I'dwant to be treated, but maybe
it's really important for me tofigure out how they want to be
treated because that's just abetter relationship all the way
around.
So I think it applies so wellin customer support, but so much

(35:06):
beyond that.
So I'm gonna make a note and bedoing some more research on
that in the future because Ithought that was just great.
Okay, so E, the next one isexceeding expectations.
You know, there's a quote thatyou have here that I really
loved.
You said, in today'scompetitive environment,
customers aren't just comparingyou to the best product and
service that they've receivedfrom your competitors, but

(35:26):
they're comparing you to thebest product or service they've
received anywhere.
This idea that you're not justbeing compared to the people in
your industry, you're gettingcompared to any customer support
experience or any experiencewith a product they've ever
received.
And so I wanted to ask you doyou have any stories of brands
that have done this really well,this like exceeding

(35:48):
expectations, this going aboveand beyond and having those wow
experiences.

Brittany (35:53):
Yeah.
Well, it's I think the one Ijust shared about the car rental
at the top of the episode istrue.
Like that has spoiled me now.
It's it's only been a week, butI'm like, I don't want to rent
a car from anywhere else everagain.
Like, why would I do anythingelse?
Yeah.
Um, and my husband, we're we'regoing on a trip this weekend
with our kids, and there's noAvis first there.

(36:15):
And I was like, should we justUber?
Like, because it was basicallythat was the experience, right?
Like somebody just like, I waslike, I don't want to have to
like wait and even like the thefast, you know, the faster
experiences that you have withlike President's Club.
I'm like, I don't know.
Um, a great experience that wehad just a couple of days ago.
My oldest son turned eight, andwe were at Universal Studios,

(36:36):
and the boys, so I've got aneight-year-old and a
five-year-old, they werewatching some kids do a Harry
Potter like singing, it's like alittle sage play thing.
It's the toad choir.
Yeah.
It is, it's a toad choir.
Yes, it's a toad choir.
And so sometimes the toad choirwill do like a meet and greet,
but if it's like hot or they'recrowded, or I don't know, for

(36:57):
any of another however manyreasons, like they don't.
So my kids who had been thereseveral months ago and got their
pictures and were like excitedto meet the kids and see the
toads.
Um, you could tell they're likethey were really sad when the
kids were like, Oh, we don'thave time for um uh individual
pictures, but we're gonna likesmile.
So everybody get out yourmuggle devices and take your
photos.
And an attendant with the kidssaw my eight-year-old like look

(37:20):
disappointed and said, Hey,follow me.
And so the four of us followedthem to the point that I'm like,
where are we going?
Because they took us like allthe way back behind Hugwards
Castle to like a little privatearea and said, We wanted you
guys to get a special meet andgreet.
And so for like five minutes,my kids are talking about
butterbeer and talking about thefrogs and their house points

(37:42):
and like all the things withthese kids.
And it was so sweet and sospecial.
And they didn't have to dothat.
And somebody just like saw thedisappointment register on my
son's face.
It's funny, he had said, like,Oh, I bet they did it because
it's my birthday, but they hadno idea.
Yeah, he had a birthday buttonthat he was wearing, but because
we were in the Harry Potterpart of the park, he had his
like, you know, Griffindor robeon and you couldn't see it at

(38:03):
all.
But it was so sweet, and theydidn't rush us at all.
Like my husband and I were verylike, cool, thank you.
We really appreciate it becausewe didn't want to keep them.
And the woman was like, as longas they're having fun, like
we're we're here.
And that was so cool and likesuch a special moment.
And it was again because oneperson saw the disappointment
register on my son's face.

(38:25):
And instead of being like,whatever, he's a kid at an
amusement park, he'll havesomething else, took the
initiative to say, I'm in acreative moment.
And like my kids are gonnaremember that forever.

Priscilla (38:35):
They weren't worried, oh, am I not gonna be able to
do this?
For am I gonna get in troubleif I don't go on to the next
thing that I have on my list ofthings to do?
They were empowered to makethat call when they saw your
son's face.
And then they felt freedom tosit there in the moment and not
rush on to the next thing.
So that's so great.
What advice would you have forpeople who might be customer

(38:56):
support representatives who arefeeling like they aren't
empowered?
They don't have the freedom tokind of spend time on those
over-the-top experiences.
I think of like you gave aChewy example in the book.
Everyone has heard stories fromChewy, you know, every time
customer support comes up, Chewyis in the conversation when
it's these great experiences.

(39:16):
But not everyone works in asituation where they have
freedom to do that.
So, what would you say?
What strategies or advice wouldyou give to someone who's
working kind of in a situationwhere they don't have a ton of
freedom?

Brittany (39:28):
I think number one, it's like having an honest
conversation with yoursupervisor, saying, like, what
can I do and what are theexpectations?
Because a lot of times if youask, you're gonna find out from
your supervisor, like, well, theexpectation is that we just
like do okay most of the time,like that email that you said.
And then it becomes like, okay,am I cool with that?
Like, do I want to spend eighthours of my day every day that

(39:50):
I'm working being mediocre?
And for some people, probablysure.
But for others, the answer isgonna be no.
So I would say that's the firstpart is asking yourself, like,
am I being valued for thecontributions that I can make
and the creativity that I canprovide?
Or is this a role where that'slike not a thing?
Assuming that there are tightparameters, but you like the

(40:11):
company, you like the role, youwant to stay there, it's getting
clarity from your boss on likehow flexible can I be.
And oftentimes it's not becauseit wouldn't be welcomed, it's
that no one has thought of it.
Yes.
And so if you have thecreativity to say, what if we
did it this way, or what if weintroduced this?

(40:32):
Um, I I heard um, again, Ithink this was like a Sam Altman
quote.
He was saying that legacycustomer service is people who
are being forced to like pay theprice of bad decisions that
were made like several levelsabove them.
Like they're sort of told,like, go do this.
So, okay, probably this hasbeen, I don't know, six or eight

(40:52):
months ago.
I was at an aquarium.
I'm with my at the timeseven-year-old, and my at the
time four-year-old is on theother side of this like stingray
tank with my husband.
And my I'm with myseven-year-old because he's got
the phone, and I'm afraid he'sgonna like drop the phone in the
stingray tank.
And all of a sudden I hear thislike really loud noise, and I

(41:13):
look over and my four-year-oldis just like gone.
And then there's just likeguttural crying, and I'm like,
what happened?
And I like rush across thetank, and he has like fallen.
I pick him up.
What had happened was there wasa, this was like a stone, like
natural stone aquarium, andthere was a ledge around almost
all of the aquarium, but thenlike a gap, like a two-foot gap.

(41:36):
And he had been walking aroundthis ledge with the stingrays
and like took a step and therewasn't a step.
So he fell and he hit the stoneon the way down.
And that's scary.
And yeah, he was scared.
He was fine.
He had a big nod on his head,but he was totally fine.
But he's like terrified.
So I'm trying to console him.
I'm holding him.
And a woman comes over and shesays, How old is he?
And I was like, Did I mishearher?

(41:57):
Like he's, you know, kind ofscreaming in my head.
I said, What did you say?
And she said, How old is yourson?
And I said, He's four.
Why?
And she said, Because I'mkeeping track of all the kids
that get hurt at this exhibit.
And I was like, What how manykids get hurt at this exhibit?
And she flips around thisclipboard.
And I am not kidding.
There's like 20 rows of likenames and ages.

(42:21):
And I said, What how long isthat from?
And she said, This is today.
And I was like, Oh my god, it'slike 1 p.m.
There's dozens of kids gettinghurt here.
Like, why don't you fix thisgap?
You could like put a trash canin this gap and then kids won't
fall.
And she shrugged and she said,That's management's call.
I'm just here to keep track.
Like, I was just told to keeptrack of how many people get

(42:44):
hurt.
They're trying to decide ifthey want to redo the exhibit or
not.
And in that moment, beyondbeing just like so infuriated,
because now I'm like, this thisis like true negligence, right?
This is not just like my kidwasn't paying attention and
slipped.
It was dozens of kids a dayapparently are like getting hurt
and nobody cares.
But in that moment, too, I feltso bad for her because I was

(43:04):
like, how much it must suck tohave her job where she feels
like she has no authority, nopower to do anything other than
literally record kids gettinghurt.
And so it was raining this day.
And like 15 minutes later,we're at another part of the
aquarium and they had like allthese trash cans that were there
because there was like waterdripping through the ceiling.

(43:25):
And I grabbed one because Ilooked at it and I was like,
this looks like it's about theright size of the gap.
And so I walked back over tothe shark tank and I put it
there.
And she's like, What are youdoing?
And I was like, I'm fixing thegap.
And she's like, You can't dothat.
And I said, Yeah, I can.
I talked to management, they'recool with it.
And I just like put it thereand walked away.
Um, but I was like, she legitwas like, it is my job to keep

(43:48):
track of kids that get hurtrather than saying, A, how do I
solve this problem?
Or B, like, yo, this is a hugeliability.
Like, thinking about that fromlike a like a financial
standpoint, what a crazyliability that is.
Yes.
And then you have an employeewho's like, oh yeah, this is
happening like every fiveminutes.
Kids are just like falling andgetting hurt.
Yeah.

Jordan (44:06):
Yeah.
And kids break ankles andwrists and stuff all the time
from lesser falls.

Brittany (44:13):
So not to mention you have like stingrays.
Like I'm like, how like my kiddid not fall, like he fell on
the ground, which I assume ishow most kids are falling.
But it also would not have beenmuch of a stretch for a kid to
lose their balance and like gointo the tank.

Priscilla (44:26):
Right.
That's wild.
And like you said, how much itmust be terrible to be that
person with that job of like, Ihave to get the age of your
child and add it to a list ofchildren that have been hurt,
but I can't actually provide youa solution because I'm in this
very tight parameters.
And and I loved, you know, ifshe had been thinking about it
in a way that was like, how canI stop this from happening?

(44:48):
Maybe she would have been ableto put the trash can in there,
or maybe she'd tried somethingand someone had reprimanded her
for it.
And so she really felt like shecouldn't do anything.
But either way, like beingstuck in this situation of, man,
I know this is wrong.
I know that this is not the waywe want to be doing things.
And I feel so restricted that Ican't solve it or I can't be

(45:09):
creative.
And so I think it's really goodadvice to talk to your
supervisor and see how much canI actually do?
Can I put a trash can in thehole?
And if I can't, if that'ssomething I'm not allowed to do
and that's something I careabout and want to do a better
job at, then maybe looking for ateam that's gonna allow me to
take ownership and do that isthe way to go, which is a hard

(45:32):
thing, but ultimately it's whereyou're spending all your time
when you're working.
So do you wanna work somewherethat's not gonna let you do
those things, or do you want towork somewhere where you're
gonna have ownership of that andactually make a difference in
that way?
Okay, so one thing that youtalked about that I really
loved, and I actually was like,this could be an entire episode
on its own, was your strategyfor apologizing.
Right out of college, I got ajob at a car dealership.

(45:54):
And one of my roles, I was insocial media, but one of my
roles was kind of to read theGoogle reviews and be aware of
what people were saying online.
And there were a lot ofnegative reviews and they would
go unanswered.
And I remember talking tosomeone, one of my supervisors,
and saying, we really shouldn'tleave those unanswered.
It can do us a huge benefit ifwe fix those issues in a public

(46:16):
way, can sometimes really buildour trust up even more with our
customers than if they had justa good experience in the first
time, if we take care of themwhen they've had a bad
experience.
And so I've always beenfascinated with this idea that
our humanity and making mistakescan actually work for our
benefit when it comes tobuilding relationships with
customers.
And so I really liked yourformula for effectively

(46:40):
apologizing.
And so I wanted to see if youcould talk about that.

Brittany (46:43):
Yeah, of course.
And you know, I'm 100% teamPriscilla on this argument
between you and your old bossbecause one of the things I
always say is when you reply toa negative review, comment,
response, whatever, you're notdoing it just for that person
who complained.
You're doing it for the next10,000 people that are gonna see
that.
Yes.

(47:03):
So that is the frame ofreference of like where you need
to be when you're replying, andnot in a like, I'm gonna one up
them kind of way, but like a,I'm gonna take ownership.
I'm gonna apologize.
I'm gonna, you know, if youneed to like state your case,
you can kind of sort of do that.
But like you're doing it notjust for that person, but for
everybody else.
But the formula that I talkabout in the book is what I call

(47:25):
the the five A's.
And I actually have um aprogram called the Six Weeks to
Superfans Masterclass, which isa training program that sort of
operationalizes CX to geteverybody on your team to take
ownership to be that actingchief of experience.
And this is this is one of thethings.
And in there, it's I like Ihave like a version of this that
you can print out and put byyour desk with these five.
So there's five parts in aproper apology.

(47:47):
Number one is you acknowledgethe problem and how it affected
the customer.
Because oftentimes I'm not madabout like the thing that went
wrong.
It's the dominoes that followedthat thing that went wrong.
Because you sent the wrong sizeshirt, now I don't have a gift
to give my daughter on herbirthday.
Or now, like I don't have thisthing for my best friend's

(48:07):
wedding.
Like that's usually where thefrustration is stemming.
Yeah.
Not the fact that it was like aproblem, but like all of these
dominoes.
So number one is acknowledgethat.
Like I understand that becauseyou know, this was supposed to
arrive in 24 hours, but took 72,all of the food that you
ordered is unedible now and thatruins your dinner.
Like you're acknowledging thething that happened because of

(48:28):
your thing.
Number two, apologize.
I think it was Ben Franklin whosaid never ruin an apology with
an excuse.
Yes.
But like, I'm sorry, full stop,complete sentence.
No qualifiers, no buts, like Iam sorry.
I understand that because Xhappened, Y has happened, that

(48:48):
sucks.
I'm so sorry, right?
Like whatever, whatever it is.
So that's the the second A isapologize.
The third A, which this is theone that I think most people
probably skip, is ask.
And it's ask how you can repairthis relationship, right?
So that could be if you'resomebody in customer support and
you know that you only havelike one of three things that

(49:12):
you can do, then you're gonnahandle this one a little
differently.
Actually, the fourth A is atone, and a tone is like doing
the thing, like doing the thingyou said you did and like
letting them know that you didthe thing.
So if you're somebody in asupport role, sometimes you have
to combine number three andnumber four, um, ask in a tone.
So that might sound like allright, there are two ways that
we typically um can resolve anissue like this on the rare

(49:33):
occasion that it happens.
Number one looks like this,number two looks like this.
Which of those sounds like it'sgonna be the better option for
you?
So, what you're doing is you'reinviting them to participate in
the remediation.
Yeah.
So you're gonna acknowledge,you're gonna apologize, you're
gonna ask, you're gonna atone.
And then finally, the fifthstep, and this is another one
that a lot of people overlook,is you're gonna adjust.
How can you fix it?

(49:55):
Like put the trash can in thegap so nobody other kids get
hurt.
Like make the adjustment.
And sometimes that meansreviewing a standard operating
procedure you have.
Sometimes that means alertingsomebody in a totally different
department, like, hey, I'vegotten three calls about XYZ.
This is a problem.
We need to get somebody on thisright now because three people

(50:16):
in a row have bought this thingthat was wrong here, or three
people in a row had this techfailure.
So, what needs to adjust orhappen differently to try to
improve the experiences offuture customers?

Priscilla (50:26):
Yeah.
I just think it's such a greatformula for an apology.
Apologizing in customer supporta lot of times becomes, you
know, the same thing as empathy.
You know, when people think ofempathy, they think, oh, well,
that's apologizing when you'vescrewed up.
But apologizing can have manydifferent effects, and a bad
apology can be reallydetrimental.
Yeah.
Like we've all been insituations where someone

(50:47):
apologizes and you're like, thisis not an apology.
You're saying the words, butyou're not apologizing to me.
And so I like that you've takenthis and broken it down in a
way that support professionalscan follow to accurately
communicate that they areapologetic for the situation and
then give ownership to thecustomer and ways to solve it.
And there's something sospecial about having that

(51:10):
humility to say, I screwed up,whether it was something small
that, you know, I misxplained orsomething bigger, but I screwed
up and I want to make thisbetter.
And I'm sorry that this hasbeen bad.
And here's, you know, I'macknowledging your story and how
this has affected you, but Iwant you to help me make it
better.
And then not losing that lastpiece of fixing it so it doesn't

(51:30):
happen again for the nextperson.
I think if you're listening tothis and you work in customer
support, this is somethingreally, really strong that can
set you apart from other peoplethat you work with or other
people at other companies isbeing able to apologize well is
so vital to doing this work.
Yeah.

Brittany (51:48):
And I would say too, for people working in support,
it's also being able to separatethe fact that you are
apologizing in that moment fromfeeling like you personally
failed or did something wrong.
So, like going back to thisidea of you are the acting chief
of experience.
You are functionally the faceof the company, the person that

(52:09):
they think the company is,whether it's a hundred or a
thousand or a hundred thousandpeople that are just like you.
Like, I'm talking to Tony,everybody at the company is like
Tony.
Yeah.
That ability to step in andapologize is something that does
not diminish you in any way.
And even if it you had nothingto do with what went wrong,
you're not saying, I'm sorry, Ipersonally failed you.

(52:30):
You're saying, like, I'm sorrythat happened.
I understand how frustratingthat is.
And on behalf of the company,like, we want to make it better.
And this is something that I'veseen a lot of people who work
in support and service kind ofstruggle with is they're like,
well, I don't want to feel likeI'm just apologizing all day.
And at the end of the day, I gohome and I'm like, I suck,
everything's wrong, like theworld is on fire.
It's having the emotionalintelligence to be able to like

(52:51):
separate the role from you as anindividual.
And the fact that you're havingto apologize for a hundred
things a day that you did notdo, you had no part of, that in
no way diminishes your skills,your talent, your ability.
That is just the role that youare being asked to play right
now.
You are the acting chief ofexperience.
You are the one who's going totry to diffuse the situation and

(53:12):
get them to a better place withthe brand.
It is in no way like anindictment on your ability to do
things.
And when you hopefully have aboss who has the emotional
intelligence to like know thatand understand and give you a
safe place to like rant when youneed to or talk about something
that was difficult.
But I've heard people say,like, well, I don't want to just
be apologizing all day.

(53:33):
Like, none of this was myfault.
Somebody else did it.
Right.
But to the customer on thephone, like it is your fault
because you are the company.
And even though it was somebodythat you have never met whose
name you don't even know thatmade that mistake, in that
moment, it is your role to ownit and to fix it.

Priscilla (53:49):
Yeah.
And I also think there'ssomething very powerful about
knowing when to apologize andwhen you don't have to
apologize.
I think a lot of supportprofessionals are people
pleasers and feel the need toapologize more than maybe they
actually should be.
And I find that the more youapologize, especially when you
are really not needing toapologize, the less water it

(54:09):
holds.
And so when you need toapologize, focus on it and hold
it with the weight it needs, butyou don't have to apologize for
things that aren't issues.
I do think sometimes we want toapologize for everything, but
sometimes that is how theproduct works.
And sometimes instead ofapologizing, you really want to
say, hey, this is how it works.
And if this doesn't work foryou, then that's okay.

(54:30):
And I can help you movesomewhere else, but this is how
the product works because thisis how we've designed it to be.
And so sometimes it's hard tofigure out when to apologize and
when it's actually not anapology situation.
It's more of a not a great fitsituation.
Exactly.

Jordan (54:47):
Yeah.

Priscilla (54:48):
The last step in your supermodel is R, is repeat,
which can be difficult.
And we were talking about thatconsistency a little bit in a
mediocre service way, but howimportant that is for your
customers to know what they'regetting when they reach out to
you.
And I it made me think of uhsomething that happened like
last week.
I read your book and then thatnight went to dinner with my

(55:09):
aunt who was in town.
And she wanted to go to aspecific restaurant that she
loves when she's in town.
She always wants to go therebecause of one meal that she
loves.
And so we went to thatrestaurant and she got the meal.
She was so excited about it,and it did not hit the way that
it usually does.
She was pretty disappointed byit.
And we left there.
And I thought, I wonder ifwe'll come back here next time

(55:31):
she's in town.
Like I wonder if that oneinconsistent experience has kind
of gone, well, now the nexttime we go, and is it going to
be good or is it going to bebad?
And now there's enough questionthere that I'm not sure if I
want to continue going to thisrestaurant when I have such a
limited amount of food optionswhen I'm in town.
So that really goes back tothat repeat.
Like, how do you keep thesekind of experiences up?

(55:52):
So, what would you say to, youknow, people in customer support
who are like hearing this andgoing, okay, but this is like
something we have to be able tokeep doing?
What would you say to them?
What strategies would you givethem?

Brittany (56:02):
Well, I would say number one, help is coming.
And one of the really promisingthings about AI and technology
is that a lot of the like thingsthat are not inspiring to you
or exciting to you will not beon your plate soon, regardless
of the tech stack that yourcompany uses, like a lot of that
is going away, which will giveyou some space and freedom to be
able to bring more energy andattention to the calls that

(56:25):
you're handling or the emailsthat you're handling, whatever,
whatever that support looks likefor you.
That's number one.
Number two, I would say that ifyou can find a way to like make
it a game of how you personallyfeel like you've like made an
impact, made things better,improved the role.
Like when I had a sales-facingrole, I had something I called

(56:48):
my no chart because I got toldso many times no.
Like I might get 30 no's for ayes.
But I had said to myself, like,every no gets me closer to a
yes because maybe in the futurethey'll want to work with me.
Maybe they know somebody who'sa better fit.
And I don't want to just belike bummed out by all these
no's.
I want to celebrate the factthat like all these no's get me

(57:08):
closer to a yes.
So I made a no chart and it waslike tally marks.
Like every time somebody toldme no, I was like, make the
tally mark, make the tally mark.
And I would count the tallymarks.
And every time I got to apredetermined number of tally
marks, I would do something nicefor myself, whether it was like
ice cream for lunch that day ora new pair of shoes or
whatever.
I was like, I am celebratingthese no's.

(57:29):
Now, well, I mean, I was gonnasay if I got into my boss, I
didn't actually have a boss, Iwas the CEO of the company at
the time, but there were similarthings that I did in other
instances where I'm like, Iwould not tell my supervisor I'm
doing this because they aregonna think that I'm crazy.
But for me, it works.
For me, it's something that'sgonna keep me engaged, keep me
excited, and help me performbetter.
So thinking about what you needbecause you know yourself from

(57:50):
a human performance standpointbetter than anybody else.
What's gonna motivate you?
What's gonna help you?
And there's is there a simplething that you can do to augment
that?
Like, I hope nobody listeningto this is in a position where
they get like insulted at theirjobs.
But I know oftentimes like thatis the case when you're working
customer service because youhave mean people, like let's not
pretend all customers areperfect.

(58:11):
A lot of them are jerks, a lotof them are, you know, hurt
people that are like, you know,not very nice.
So um, you know, if there'ssomething like that, that you're
like, okay, every time thishappens, I'm gonna count it, I'm
gonna make a mark, I'm gonna dosomething, and then I'm gonna
like counteract that from anenergy standpoint, from a
personal, like emotionalmanagement standpoint, what can
you do?

Priscilla (58:31):
Yeah.
I really appreciate you comingon.
This has been a really funconversation.
I've learned a lot from yourbook.
I've learned a lot from thisconversation.
Before we wrap up, for anyonewho's listening who wants to
kind of take that first steptoday, creating super fans, what
is one step that you would giveto them to start right now?

Brittany (58:50):
I love this question.
I would say ask yourself,what's the most common
interaction that you have?
How can you make it like alittle bit better, even if it's
1% better?
Is it with a joke?
Is it with a smile?
I was at the airport yesterdayand the waiter was like telling
these corny, like terrible, baddad jokes.
But he was so committed to thebit that it was so funny, it was

(59:12):
so charming and engaging.
And like all the customers werelike, Oh, do you have another
one?
You have another one.
I mean, he like literallywalked when he brought me my
check, he walked over and he hada banana and he was holding it
like he was talking on thephone.
Oh my gosh.
He was like, Oh yeah, I don'tknow why, like her card's not
going through.
I don't know what the problemis.
I mean, just like so corny, butlike he committed to the bit,
he loved it.
So ask yourself, is theresomething that you encounter

(59:33):
again and again and again thatyou can tweak just a little bit
to enhance the energy, changethe vibe, make the ordeal
better, more enjoyable.
Not just for them, but for youtoo.

Priscilla (59:44):
Yeah, that is so fun.
There's such a conversationthat can be had about how you
want to make super fans out ofyour employees, too, which we
don't have time to get into.
You talk about it in your book,though.
And so, you know, it's a goodsegue into plugging the book.
Anyone who is listening to thiswho wants Wants to learn more
about this because there's somuch more that we didn't get
into that is so valuable.

(01:00:06):
Can you tell us a little bitabout how people can find you,
how they can get the book andlearn more about Superfans?

Brittany (01:00:12):
Of course.
Well, the book is calledCreating Superfans: How to Turn
Your Customers into LifelongAdvocates.
You can find it everywherebooks are sold.
Uh, there's an audiobook that Inarrate, an ebook, and then of
course the standard hardcoveredition.
You can find out more about meand my Six Weeks to Superfans
masterclass, which is anall-in-one CX training program
designed for everybody in yoursupport department and the rest

(01:00:33):
of the members on your team.
Um, you can find all of thatinformation at Britneyhodak.com.

Priscilla (01:00:38):
Which we will link in the show notes.
So if you're listening to this,you can quickly get to that.
I really can't recommend thisbook enough.
Like I said, I read it in aday.
It was so engaging, so easy toread.
There's so much.
One of the things that I lovethat you do about this in this
book is that all of the chaptertitles are song titles.
And it took me like twochapters.

(01:01:00):
And then I was sitting withsomeone at the time and I went,
no, I don't know if she did thison purpose, but that's a Taylor
Swift song title.
So I don't know if I am readingTaylor Swift into everything,
or if she's reading Taylor Swiftinto things, or if Taylor Swift
just is everywhere.
And then turns out, as I keptreading that all the chapters
are song titles, and I justloved it.
I think it's so great how youweave that music in through the

(01:01:22):
book.
It's really fantastic.

Jordan (01:01:24):
I also noticed it during this interview as well.
I heard a lot of like cues andset list, like including things
in your set list.
I was like, okay, yeah, this iscoming through now.

Priscilla (01:01:34):
It's a lot of fun.
And I will say I'm pretty proudof myself.
We've gotten to the end of therecording here, and I have not
mentioned Taylor Swift yet.
I am a huge Taylor Swift fanand gasped out loud when I read
that you have met her and waslike, all right, I'm gonna have
to figure out how to do thisinterview without bringing up
Taylor Swift in the first 10seconds.
But if you are a Taylor Swiftfan, you should read this book

(01:01:57):
because there's some littleanecdotes in there about her,
but about so much in the musicindustry.
So I really, really recommendit.
It's fantastic.

Brittany (01:02:04):
Well, thank you so much, Priscilla.
I am so glad that you love thebook.
And yeah, you know, I really Iwanted to write a book that was
fun that like I would want toread, that my friends would want
to read.
The biggest compliment is thatI sell so many copies of this
book, like 50 at a time, 100 ata time, because somebody reads
it and says, I bought this formy whole team.
So I have like book club guidesand team discussion guides.

(01:02:26):
And every week I record videosfor teams, and every single week
it's like, we're this team, webought 58 copies.
We're this team, we have 75copies.
We're this team, we bought 35copies.
Like I wanted to write a bookthat would give people a sense
of shared language, shared toolsto be able to say, like, this
is how we do it, to use anothersong title.

Priscilla (01:02:45):
Yes.
When I finished reading it, Ithought, oh, we got to read this
as a team and we have to do abook club about this book.
So I think you were successfulin that.
It's so great.
So thank you so much.
It's time for support in reallife, our segment where we
discuss a real life supportexperience.
So, Jordan, what question do wehave today?

Jordan (01:03:08):
All right, so this is a question from an online
community.
It says, I would still like tobreak into customer experience,
but I'm having trouble landinggigs.
I have nine years of socialmedia experience, and many of
those years I've been acommunity manager managing
everything from strategy tocontent ideation to creation to
managing DMs and messages, etcetera.
I have the experience, butmaybe I'm not translating it

(01:03:30):
well in my resume.
Any tips for social mediaspecialists interested in
landing a CX role?

Brittany (01:03:37):
Love this question.
Okay, so here's what I wouldsay.
If you are a social mediastrategist expert, you have so
much amazing experience that isinstantly transferable.
So this is what I would do.
I would instead of applying forjobs, I would ask yourself,
what is your dream job?
Like, where do you want towork?
What are the brands that youlove?
And then I would go check outtheir socials and I would reach

(01:04:00):
out to somebody on LinkedIn orany forum that you want to say,
Hey, I have almost a decadeexperience in social media, but
I really want to make the moveto customer experience.
And what I know about socialmedia is that it is the front
lines of customer experiencebecause it's where people go to
vent their frustrations, theirwins, everything in between.
I would be such a great personto join your brand because I

(01:04:24):
love it and because I have theseinsights that I want to share
right away.
And then share those insights.
Like, what is it that you loveabout that brand?
What is it that you love aboutthe brand, but you think this
thing sucks and they need tochange and they need to be doing
it differently?
Like, what does your dream rolelook like?
Where would that be?
And then ask yourself, how do Ireverse engineer the
conversations to like get thatdream role with that person?

(01:04:46):
So it is very likely that yourresume may not be written
highlighting the right things.
Obviously, you can use AI now.
It's like so easy to do that.
Write a prompt saying this isthe dream role that I want.
How do I shape the experiencethat I have through a lens
that's gonna matter the most tothis hiring manager or
executive?
And you will probably find waysto like reshape what you did

(01:05:08):
through a lens of customercentricity.
Because again, if you're onsocials, literally everything
you're doing is about customerexperience.
So whether it's on theacquisition side or the
retention side, the serviceside, like it's all serving
customers.
So I would say anybody workingin customer support or customer
experience would be lucky tohire someone with nearly a

(01:05:28):
decade of experience in social.
And it's just a matter ofdesigning like the dream job
that you want and then making aplan to go get that.
But don't limit yourself tojobs that you see posted or
listed somewhere.
Ask yourself, what are thebrands that I would love to go
work at?
And how do I need to get infront of the people who make
those hiring decisions?

Priscilla (01:05:49):
Yeah, I think that's so good.
I think going through socialmedia to get in touch with
people, you think about thisperson has been working in
social media for nine years.
So they know what kind ofmessages they would get that
would make them want to pass italong to the people in the
decision making.
And so I think you can use thatto your benefit.
You can say, this is how Iwould have, as a social media
manager who's reviewing DMs,this is what would have got me

(01:06:11):
to pass this along.
So I'm gonna use that and writeit in a way because I know how
to get to the person who canmake the call.
So I think that's a great pieceof advice.
So thank you so much forsharing that.
If you have a question, asupport story, or a support
situation that you would like usto discuss or shout out, you
can text the show by using thesend us a text link in the

(01:06:31):
episode description.
As always, if you like thisepisode, please share it with
someone who works in customersupport and leave a review on
Apple Podcasts.
I want to give a huge thanksagain to Brittany Hodak for
joining us today, and thank youall for listening.
Now go and make someone's day.