December 4, 2023 • 51 mins
Join us as we demystify all the nitty-gritty details involved in the solar site audit with our guest Lucas Coombs, a seasoned site audit supervisor. Lucas, with his years of experience and invaluable expertise, guides us through the significant role of site audits in the solar installation process explaining why it's essential to capture even the most minute details. The conversation also raises potential red flags and highlights the repercussions of overlooking certain factors during the audit process. The emphasis on the importance of the solar audit as the foundation for the rest of the installation process remains in the spotlight throughout. All said this episode is a treasure trove of insights and advice, not just for those considering solar power, but for anyone curious about the process. So, get ready to harness the power of the sun with Lucas Coombs on the Harmon and Solar podcast!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to another edition of the Harmon and Solar
podcast.
I'm your host, ralph Romano, vpof Sales and Marketing at
Harmon and Solar.
With me my co-host, as always,ben Wulschlager.
You all know him as MrEverything Good to be back again
.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I didn't even ask you how you're doing, I'm just
telling everyone it's good to beback, okay well, I see, because
he enjoys coming here.
He likes to see me.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, I like the food .
We do have food here every time, so we won't talk about that.
So my question you know thequestion's coming, it always
comes.
I'm going to go back now.
So we had pamphlet, businesscard, pamphlet, right, we
started pamphlet, then we had ascroll, then we had an adventure
book, which was odd.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Where are we today?
Pretty much like a reader'sdigest, now.
We're reader's digestEverything.
Things get added to it all thetime Because you just Mr
Everything.
So yeah, added new things lastweek, so maybe we'll let our
guests know what the hell we'retalking about in a second.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So, okay, no, we'll just leave it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
We'll just leave it.
We can just refuse the wholeshow.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, that's perfect.
So today, ben, we're going totalk the site audit.
We don't like audits, you don'tlike audits.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
This is an IRS audit.
Okay, it doesn't say it, nevermind, because this guest is not
from the IRS.
I pay my taxes.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I do too, but today we're going to keep down the
path.
We've gone through all thesedifferent stages and now we've
hit the point of where we havethe site audit.
So we're going to talk aboutthe timing of that and
everything around that.
And today we get another guy.
We always got a guy or gal.
Today is another guy.
This guy's been around again along time I've been doing it a
long time and I would considerhim an expert in the site audits
(01:58):
right, which I understandsomewhat.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Not.
I don't know what you'refeeling is on that.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I mean, yeah, he knows what he's doing.
He's been around for a while,so I hope so, you know, we keep
him here, he's employed.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
He knows what he's doing.
Good.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
All right, well, let's bring him on.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Should we bring him on?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Sure, all right, push the button.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
What's that?
Push the button.
I don't know what I want to.
All right, okay, so we're gonnabring on Lucas.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
There he is.
Thanks for having me today.
Look at that guy.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Welcome Lucas.
So Lucas, coombs, coombs.
Coombs all right, so you areour site manager, supervisor, oh
.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I kind of supervisor, I guess, is what we're called.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, okay, all right , so you're a site audit
supervisor.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Should we have a made up tile for him, like we do?
Daniel?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
We won't talk about Daniel Simon.
We never talk about that.
So how long have you been atHarmon?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, I started at Harmon in 2013.
I went back to college for alittle while and came back, but
this last eight years, Eightyears, there you go.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
That's pretty good.
That's just your last stint,but you're actually working with
us.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I probably got almost 10 years with Harmon all
together.
So 10 years Commercial.
I worked on the commercial side, then the commercial, the
commercial electric, commercial,solar, and then I came into a
resident auditing in the office.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Which is better, you can tell I like the air
conditioning.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
So, anyways, I like being inside.
All right, it was really hotout there on it was really hot
out there.
I still get on the roof everyonce in a while, but anyways.
Okay, I'm an old goat and Ilike to be in the air
conditioning.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
He's bougie now.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
What did you do before Harmon?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Last paying job I had .
I actually worked lawenforcement out in Georgia.
So anyways, I'm from Georgia.
I was born in Montana, grew upin California and moved to
Georgia.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Where'd you grow up?
In California?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Vacaville, California Is that north.
Right next to Travis Air ForceBase.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh okay.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So it's a Sacramento 45 minutes from Sacramento.
Okay, ralph likes to pretendhe's from California.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I am from Southern California.
He's a North California guy.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
I was stationed at Pendleton when I was in the
Marine Corps.
First rule of being a Marine isyou have to tell everybody that
you're a Marine.
So anybody, any jar heads outthere in podcast land.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Okay, mission accomplished, mission
accomplished, we'll put that inthe hashtag.
Hashtag Marine.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
We will, actually we will do that.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, so let's talk about what you do at Harmon
currently.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I supervise pretty much.
I supervise all of theinformation that we gather when
we audit.
That gets pushed through tosales operation and the design
department.
I kind of make sure I overseethe process of collecting all
the information and making surethat all the information that
needs to be passed gets passedto everybody.
(04:45):
So if that, I'm trying toencapsulate it in a nutshell.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, that's good.
So you have an auditor orauditor.
Does that work for you?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, I have one auditor right now.
He's a handsome young strappinglad that comes and trips around
on people's rooftops like SantaClaus.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Nice, all right, does he wear a little?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
red suit, white beard , if we ask him nicely, if we
ask him nicely, we should dothat the month of December make
him dress up as Santa for allaudits.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
All right, so let's talk about the site audit.
So we're going to educatepeople on what exactly that is.
So once you buy a system fromHarmon and we've gone through
their contract process and allthat, the next thing that's
going to happen, the logicalnext step, would be to us to
come out and do a site audit.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So you can't just look at the proposal and be like
, oh, panels are going here,let's go ahead and install them.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We trust satellites and Google and we know it's
going to fit and hope it fitsRight.
So we're better than that andplus, there's a lot of things
that we've got to look at thatwe're going to talk about.
So a site audit, what is a siteaudit?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I'm going to ask our guest, let the expert do it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So I'm going to come to you and say what's a site
audit?
What is a site audit?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Basically, what I tell people a site audit is is
whenever we come out there andwe take pictures of everything
that you got and see what it'sgoing to take to put solar on
your house.
We're taking a bunch ofpictures around the house, on
top of the house, of theelectrical service and basically
gathering all the informationthat we need In order to see
what it's going to take to putsolar on.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So you've met Dennis right, and we trust Dennis.
Sometimes, no, we trust Dennis,we do, but when you Dennis is
good people.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
He's good people.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But when he sells something, he's selling it based
on whatever Daniel.
We all met Daniel.
What Daniel?
put together for him based onwhat a satellite tells us, and
we need to be able to nowvalidate that we can actually
put that system on that roof.
And we're not only going tolook at the roof, but we're
going to look at other thingstoo to help us validate that.
So that's why you and your teamare there.
So that's what's good.
(06:41):
Now there's two types of siteaudits, I mean.
So we've been playing with onetype and that's where we have.
Basically, we take pictures outof the site without an auditor
going out.
Maybe a salesperson will takepictures of everything that we
need them to take pictures of.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We'll give them a listen, and say, hey, we need to
see.
All this stuff Gives you guys agood preliminary idea of what's
going on Gives us a good idea,and we typically do this with
stuff that's like maybe in Yumaor in Tucson or farther away,
because we don't want to have toreally roll a truck out there
and if we can gather enoughinformation then we think we're
good.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Then we're going to stamp it and move forward.
It's newer, harman.
We've probably been doing thatsix months to a year.
A lot of companies do that allthe time.
We don't like to do it all thetime.
We'd rather get our boots onthe ground, our boots on the
roof, whatever, and do it thatway.
So that's one of the types ofsite audits.
So that's called.
It's basically a non-truck rollaudit.
We're going to focus on thetruck roll audit, which is what
(07:36):
you and your team take care of.
And obviously the big issuewith why you want to roll a
truck is, if we miss something,the repercussions of missing
that.
So, like you were talking aboutin the last podcast, you can
see the roof and maybe get somemeasurements and stuff, but you
can't see underneath the roof.
You can't lift a tile and sayhow's the recondition of that
(07:58):
roof.
So that's where it gets tricky.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Or the side of the house or backyard.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
There's a lot of things that you can't see, we
don't know, so that's why werely on it, and the worst thing
that can happen is we don'tcatch that stuff and then we get
down to where we're gettingready to install.
Oh look what, we just foundthat we were up on your roof, Mr
Customer.
Yeah, that's going to cost timeand money.
Customer doesn't want to hearthat, so that's why we always
try to roll a truck most of thetime unless it's way out there
(08:23):
and we just can't do it, forwhatever I have a recent site
audit story, so sold the system.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
It looked great on the roof and everything.
We won't mention names, Keepthe person secret.
I guess Everything looked great.
But then after the site auditwe realized there was a giant AC
unit in front of the servicepanel.
Oh wow, remember that one.
I don't know if you knew.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
We were involved in that one.
You probably know that one.
Yeah, I know all about that one.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, so I didn't know, we didn't know doing the
sale.
But when we came out to thesite audit we go this is a big
issue, this is going to costsome delays and things like that
, so we have to take care of itas soon as possible.
So customer took care of it.
They moved the AC unit from thesite service panel.
Everything went smoothly.
But if we went ahead and didthe permitting and the install
(09:08):
and all that stuff, then theycame out and failed inspection,
that would not look good on us.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, all the electrical equipment they have
to maintain a walk-up clearance,a 3 by 3 clearance from front
of all the new electricalequipment.
People don't realize that, andanyway.
So that's another reason why wego out there.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, so it's important to do the in-person
site audit to make sure that wegot everything that we need to
before we move on.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And one of the things that your auditor does when
he's out there, besides lookingat everything, I know they get a
checklist of a million thingsthat they have to look at.
I know because I helped buildthat in one of our software
pieces and I was like man, thisis a lot of stuff, but I get it
right.
But one of the things I noticedwas they take a million
pictures.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I mean like Right now we've got it narrowed down to
between 60 and 150 because wehave more.
The easy ones are about 60.
But then we have batteryinstalls and stuff like that
where we need more information.
We've got to get in the garages.
It's just a lot of pictures.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Let's do a video next time On the pictures.
No, just like a full cinematic,two-hour video of the entire
house.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I didn't realize.
I mean, I knew it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
That's a lot.
There's a lot of people don'trealize that there are a lot of
little things that we have tocapture, like where are the
fences, where are the gates?
All those things, where is thewater?
Where is the gas?
Those things have to becaptured for the design plan in
order to pass permitting andstuff like that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So we're going to kind of go down the list of some
of those things just to givepeople kind of an understanding,
because I think that's a reallygood point is, they don't
understand.
There's so much involved hereand there's code violations,
there's this, there's that andyou can get to the point where
if something's done in the houseand it's not permitted, and now
we go to put solar somewhereand then the inspector comes out
.
Guess what?
Yeah, I have an issue with thecity.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yep, we just ran into one of those other day.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I've had homeowners who've taken a look at you know
I've asked them a question.
I can look at the side out ofphotos and they they're like I
didn't even.
I don't know what that is.
I didn't how long you lived inyour home, but ten years.
You've been living here for tenyears.
You know, you know, no, thatthis is on the side of your
house.
Nope, all right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Good thing we got those pictures so, and we're
opening up a can of wormspotentially.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, sometimes yeah, so well, we have to right now.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So let's talk about the things that we're looking
for.
So I know the main.
I'll start at the very firstone.
We're looking to see if thedesign of the panels will fit
right.
I mean, so how, how does ourauditor, what does he do?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So we we like to think that that's Responsibility
number one for the auditorsmake sure, first and foremost,
that the modules are gonna fiton top of the right.
So what he's gonna do is he'sgonna drag his stuff on top of
the roof there's ladder out,there, safety, all that stuff
Climb up on the roof and startoff Chalking stuff out three
foot clip fire clearances.
(11:42):
He's gonna start there.
He's gonna start with thiscorner module on one particular
roof plane and then he's gonnago from there.
He's gonna start making his.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
He literally chocks it out, yeah, literally chocks
it out, yeah.
So he's saying well, will thisfit?
Yep, and if it won't?
Speaker 3 (11:59):
For obstructions like vans, or we just we have less
room than we anticipated, orsomething like that.
He's gonna start, you know move, trying to see where we can put
modules if they won't fit forone particular reason or another
.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So and we've talked about in our last episode was
why, you know why we design theway we design, with panels and
all the obstructions andeverything.
So this kind of ties right intothat.
And now we have a person on theroof that's actually looking
for this stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, because sometimes on those preliminary
designs there might be like alittle blurry thing on the roof
that we don't know it is, but isit a van, or you know, is this
dead squirrel right, you knowpigeon that just sat there or
something for the photo?
But then we get on the roof.
Oh, it was this, and now we canmove things around around it so
right.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And then, once you've done that, I mean remember back
in the day we used to have thelittle tool to check the Sun.
Do you remember that?
The Sun, sun, I actually I havethat at my house.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah you should have brought us and brought it.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
We still use it every once in a while.
I have one particular laptopthat I can't update because if I
do, it won't work with the oldSun I machine.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And that would just measure the actual Sun and
shading and stuff for thosefurther the so much of machine
actually.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know you pointed at 180 degrees, you put it where
the models are gonna go, yousay what azimuth, what tilt, and
it tells you how much Sun'sgonna remember that we got away
from using that now because theSoftware's are so advanced, they
can actually do that for us now.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yep, but that was back in the day and we were
talking like, wow, remember guysgetting up there doing that
with their advocates Once you'vedone that stuff, now you're
looking at roof condition what?
What do you do To determine theroof is good or bad?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
well, it's Arizona.
Everything's usually Concretetile has tiles, flat tiles,
stuff like that.
There's underlayment underneaththose tiles.
We flip up the tiles when weget out there and we take a look
at especially where the overlapis.
There are things that we lookfor a Weathering drying moisture
(13:52):
.
There's moisture stains Curlingwhenever it's been Exposed to
the elements for too long.
Actually, the paper where theoverlap is, we'll start Well,
curl it up, yeah and then welook for other things like ridge
seal, plastic Ridge seal andstuff like that.
We flip those tiles up.
What we want, the plastic Ridgeseal, therefore, is to
(14:15):
Basically weatherproof the solarplane.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So right nice kind of the stuff, david, went into
going into this episode.
Yeah, it's starting to be likea full-on doctor's checkup, you
know.
Yeah, that's exactly kind ofwhat it is.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, we look, we look underneath the tiles, we we
see what kind of shape theunderlayment is in the.
Just looking at the, justlooking from the ground up to
the roof and looking at thetiles and the flat tiles on the
s-tiles, you can't tell whatconditional roof?
Right, so anyway.
So we get up there and we do alittle investigating.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So, yeah, it's good information for the homeowner
too, because you know they couldthink everything's right,
honky-dory in their home, andthen we go out and take a look
at the roof and then go by theway.
This is, you know, a coupledays away from a leak.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So just so you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
We definitely want to capture that stuff in the
beginning, rather than right andright sure what percentage, and
I'm just gonna fill us outthere what percentage of roofs
actually fail in your mind thatyou look at.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I would like to say 55%.
Maybe it's not that bad, but no, it's not that bad.
Five you guys have had DaveColeman on, here is your roofing
manager and Me and Dave havehad a million conversations.
People don't realize that outhere in the heat, you know they
think 20 year roofs, 25 yearroofs in their shingles.
It's just not the case right.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's just like buying a car battery.
You know you buy a car batteryand has that three-year warranty
, but everyone who's selling youthat car party battery goes.
It's not, it's three-yearwarranty but it's probably gonna
die in about a year and a halfbecause we eat right around.
We know this 12 years.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, so anything with roof, Yep, so, um, that's
what.
That's what I've been told, andI wasn't a subject matter
expert on roofs in the beginning, but I've talked to roofers and
talking to Dave and stuff likethat.
I'm kind of forced into it,forced into it.
Yeah anyways, and we're prettygood at making a good initial
assessment and then, if we needto, for him to look in depth
(16:01):
into it because he's a subjectmatter expert he will right.
So Cool, I love how we'regetting full circle here.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, it's kind of cool, right?
We should have a podcast witheveryone one day.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Oh, I'll put them on top of each other.
A lot of microphones.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
No.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
All right, so let's talk about the heart.
I think this, this is where theheart of them ever talking
about being a doctor, going tothe office and physical.
The heart to me is theElectrical panel.
Right, because that's whereeverything's gonna centralize in
, and I know there's so manythings without a panel.
It's, and I'll try to keep itunderstandable.
Yeah, so I mean, let's justtalk about that.
You'd be mentioned briefly.
(16:38):
Codes the code issues, so whatit?
What is the general rule forpanels as far as like clearance,
stuff like that?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Okay for all the electrical equipment there's.
Basically, you got to look atit like a three by three box in
front of your service panel.
That goes all the way to thesky, Anyways nothing, nothing in
that thing in front of it.
No, nothing, you know justnothing can encroach upon that
area, right?
So, anyways, when?
And that's just um, that's autility requirement.
(17:05):
Yeah, it's a safety thing andit's safety utility If something
, something catastrophic were tohappen.
They need to be able to makesure that they don't have to try
to get around a tree, right orfoliage in order to get to your
panel to cut it off so thatnobody gets electrocuted or
something like that, so you haveclearance rules.
No it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
how about by walls?
It can't be behind a wall orthere's I know APS has rules
about walls.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
No, we can put stuff behind walls, it's iffy, it's.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
They have to have Like 24-hour access to it, so
it's like gates, just anythinganything like a service
disconnect that it's.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It all boils down to safety.
So, in order to turn somethingoff, do firemen have to go into
the backyard in order to turn itoff, before they can get on the
roof and poke a hole to letHeat out?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
whenever there's a fire right.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So anyways, they want it all when it's accessible
right, so everything has to beaccessible.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yes, right, you can't have it in your podcast room,
in your upstairs house.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Which you see a lot in the Midwest, where they have
those inside the house.
Yeah, yeah a lot of them atthose services are actually in
the house and a closet.
Oh wow, yeah.
As we opened up in Oklahoma, westarted finding services in the
closet.
Oh, they're my sweater, there'smy jacket, there's my service.
Different jurisdictions.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, it's just different.
Right in Arizona is verydifferent.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And then you know it's funny.
I see I see pictures all thetime and I know you guys are
looking at pictures all the time, but there could be like a gas
pipe running right under, rightunder an electric panel or a
water pipe.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You see all kinds of stuff with Unpermitted additions
and stuff like that, peopledoing stuff that they're not
really supposed to do, anyways,and we run into stuff like that.
But there's, there's rules foreverything.
So anyways, yeah, gas and water.
Putting weird places right nextto the service panel which
right you know you don't wantgas right in front of a,
(18:51):
something that could spark.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You don't want water, like just water, really good
friends waters waters aconductor.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So, we just saw one last week.
Brad showed me and Brad's ourdirector of operations.
He showed me a picture ofsomebody that had like a water
spout that was running for somekind of a washer in the house
Mm-hmm, right underneath.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, yes, yes, like someone just did it that way.
Yeah, you can't do that in.
Homeowners don't know.
They know they just have someguy come out and do it and they
think it's everything's up tocode and you know and they they
find out later.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
On storm rolls over the lake and you're in the water
.
You get out.
It should make sense that youdon't want water near
electricity.
Yeah yeah, you don't want gas.
You know, spark big boom right.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And then I know that you know we have our operations
meeting and it's it's a constantconversation about breakers,
like there's a main breakerwhich, whatever that is, it's
gonna be a 200, 250, 175, 200amp.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
It's the main service disconnect.
So when you flip the mainbreaker and then all your
circuit breakers after that,mm-hmm don't work.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So, so that main breaker sometimes has to be, you
know, it cuts all the power.
It cuts all the power and we,sometimes we do a thing called
derating Mm-hmm, what's thatthis is one of the hot.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Yes, this is one of the hardest concepts to explain
um.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
And I don't have my head around it.
I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I'm gonna try to make it.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's me, but it's anyways.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
So there's national electric code has rules for
solar back feed and theelectrical service.
So basically, your, your backfeed breaker plus your main
breaker cannot exceed 120% ofthe bus rating which is usually
out here in Arizona 200 amps.
So you have there's a numberthat you have to look for 240.
(20:42):
You can usually 120% of the 200amp, bus rating is 240.
So a 60 amp breaker Plus ahundred and seventy five amp
main breaker.
So solar 60 amps Main breakers,175 amps.
When you add them together itequals 235 and you're gets under
240, which is 120% of the busrating.
So as long as you're below the240, You're right but anyway.
(21:07):
But there's.
And then to on a 225 amp busyou have, a 270 is 120%.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So now there's different rules, that's just I
don't want to get too far, Idon't want to get in the weeds.
That I understand.
We'll do something like a wholepodcast on D-rate.
Yeah, we'll talk about becausethat actually we do do.
I think they did in my house.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, it was a 200 amp.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Now it's 175 mine too right.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
So they did that in order, so it works.
So we'll get, we'll get intothat.
But there's a whole yeah,there's a probably a whole
conversation just about that andit's very technical and it
might kill people to listen to,because I've been listening to
it for 10 years and I still kindof get it.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, so you can exclude you from that.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, you just when, when you add the solar breakers,
sometimes you have to make themain breaker smaller in order to
not exceed limitations.
Anyways, I'm not gonna now.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So it's okay.
But now I know one of thethings you guys do is you get
into load calcs, so that'sprobably not as complicated.
That's all me, that's all youright.
We're boring.
So what is a low?
What is load calc?
We talk customers yeah, we haveto do a load calc to see if
it's gonna work.
They're like what right?
I even say what what's a loadcalc.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So the load calculation is a sum of all your
All, the sum of all thecircuits that you have on your
house.
So so you add them all up, addthem all up and that tells you
down and it tells me whether Ican do the D-ray that we just
talked about.
Okay, so you have.
So I have to make sure that theload calculations, if I D-ray
to main breaker 275 amps, haveto make sure the load
calculations stay on 175 amps,or else It'll just pop and pop,
(22:27):
okay.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
All information we can't get from an aerial view.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I got my whole point of having this conversation
right there's just a millionthings that it's just little
things.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm sure you guys have talked about it before, but
Arizona is so unique in thatyou know all the jurisdictions
go by.
You know it's not a uniformpolicy different codes,
different building codes,different electric codes, so
anyways, and we have to makesure that we get grab all this
information that will please allof the jurisdiction.
Yeah so anyways.
So we have to get somethingspecific for this place and we
(23:00):
have to get something right, butwe have to do it every single
time.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So it's an all-encompassing thing that we
have to get a lot of thosehomeowners will mind it.
You know, my friend didn't haveto do that like well, there
they're in Glendale and yourimperial.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's the difference , yeah, and people don't get
that right and they don'tunderstand that you're where you
live.
It really drives all the rulesright.
Peoria is different fromPhoenix.
Phoenix is different fromMaricopa.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
County.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
All these different rules and we have to, and that
it goes for setbacks, that goesfor the electrical side, it's
everything yeah, and then youknow you live in Scottsdale but
it's actually a Phoenixjurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, we have to go out for this and that, and so
it's absolutely very unique.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's very unique and we talk about customization.
That's just another form ofit's, customized to the utility
and what they want so, geez,that's true.
And then I know, I know one ofthe things we talked about is
dead fronts, because I guesswhat you guys do is when you,
when you, look at the panel, theguy goes in there and takes the
front off.
It takes a picture of the bossand all the it's just the cover
over the breakers right anywaystake it off and.
(23:57):
We've got customers go, I canjust take that off.
Well, no, because if you takeit off and touch the wrong thing
, you're gonna die.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Let us do it.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, because you can right.
I mean, there's enough powerback there it can kill you.
Yeah, it's, you know her show.
So is that how we pick ourauditors?
We kind of like him, but wedon't we say you're the dead
front auditor.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
No kidding.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
So initiation we don't have many looking at all
of that stuff, all that stuffyeah, not only that.
You know, once we pull the deadfront off, we see what's
connected, what's not connectedwas turned off, was turned on
anyways.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So and then I know that the the little tube on the
bottom of.
So you have your, you have yourpanel, and then there's a tube
that comes from the ground andgoes into that and that's called
a riser, riser, and I alwayssee that we replace those a lot.
Why would we replace the riser?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
In order to pass inspection.
We can't have anything that'scracked, so sometimes we have
their rigid metal conduit risers, their PVC risers anyways, and
PVC is just plastic on steroidsand Anyways so it it breaks in
the heat.
Yeah anyways, and not only that.
Whenever our house is firstbuilt, you know the risers put
(25:07):
in, and then there's Settlingand stuff like that so you know,
a couple months after it's therisers put in there and the
electrical services on the house, you know, and things start
shifting and heat and cold andrain and all that stuff and it
could crack it.
Right at the base of the Hubthere's a little hub that
connects the riser to theservice entrance section.
(25:27):
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So all good info yeah .
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I know that and we replaced a lot of those, but it
has to be intact before it'llpass inspection.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So if we go out there and it's cracked, it's got to
be fixed before we finish all ofour stuff and we're doing a lot
of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
For that we have to pass an inspection.
We don't want to fail theinspection.
That's just gonna anger us,anger you.
Right, we have to do safetybehind it.
We got to make sure thisthing's not gonna explode or
catch fire, so we got to followall those different rules and so
that the service panel is theheart of the solar installation.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, we joke about that.
But there's yeah, there's a lotof homeowners like, well, why
are you doing this?
I don't want this.
Like, well, your home couldcatch on fire if we don't do
that.
So this is why we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I mean, we have a classic example that we've been
talking with this customer forprobably two months, where
somebody went out there and didsomething on this guy's panel,
where it's just it's oh yeah,it's not right, it's it's.
We're afraid it's gonna catchon fire and we don't want to put
our name on this thing andstart touching this and just
leave it the way it is right.
We got the manufacturerinvolved, we got a bunch of
(26:25):
people involved in this and saidis this right?
And they're like absolutely not, this needs to be fixed.
Yeah, and the customer washearing from the electricians
that they were talking to is ohno, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
It's not fine, and we're not gonna touch this.
We're actually gonna cancelthis project unless you do it
the right way.
Right, right.
And so that one of the reasonssometimes Harman gets a bad rap
is because we're not willing tojust do anything.
Yeah right, and we just can.
We're gonna do what's right foryou and, I forgot, for us as
well, because it's our liabilityand People don't like that.
But I think they finallydecided to go with it.
I think we're actually gonnareplace that.
I'm no.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I'm the one that found that discrepancy, yeah,
and anyways, and I was like whoa, that's not right, anyways, and
I'm not gonna bore you with thedetails or anything like that,
but they will.
Another electrician wired itwrong, right, and it has a
serious potential foroverheating or possibly fire or
(27:16):
damage because they got too muchelectricity go into one spot.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I know you're homeowner potential electricity
going to one spot.
Yeah, a homeowner is going okay, well, I have my electrician
saying it was done right, harmansaying is done wrong, who's
right?
So then that's why we okay,we're gonna get the manufacturer
involved right, other entitiesinvolved, and go here's all the
facts.
Now you make the decision ofwho's right or wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
And this took almost two months, turns out right,
yeah to actually make thedecision, but it was, yeah, we
had to come down.
We finally just said, hey,either we do it this way or we
just walk away.
Right, we're not doing thisright, so, and that's I agree,
that's exactly what we should do, okay, so we're talking about
the heart.
We'll get away from the heartfor a second.
You guys are also when you'redoing audits.
If we sell batteries, you'relooking at, you're looking at
(28:01):
the location for batteries.
I know there's a lot involvedin that, even more involved in
that right so.
I mean, I guess, if I tone itdown a little bit that you're
looking for a certain distancefrom the actual service.
We try to keep it close, likewithin 20 feet, 30 feet.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
We'd like to keep it within 20 feet, is you know?
We're looking at minimizingconduit runs and wire length and
stuff like that.
Anyways, but there's.
There's other things that gointo it.
If you put it on the outside ofthe house, we can't be more
than, or we can't be more thanCloser than five feet to doors
and windows.
There's other things, there's alot of rules.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, and some some of them are a Jurisdiction rules
and some are like Tesla rules.
For instance, tesla has TeslaTesla has.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
One of the Installation rules is uh, you
know, if we put it on theoutside of the house, they don't
want it on the backside ofLiving or living area.
So it let's say right outsideof a bedroom.
Outside of a bedroom.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
They wanted outside your kitchen.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, so we have to.
We have to know what's on theother side of the wall too, wow
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So this is the smartest guy in the room, right?
All this should.
I leave smarter than you reallyall this stuff he has to
remember, have to remember.
Yeah, that's a lot of rules.
It's insane right and that thisis your job on a daily basis,
to know all this?
I have to figure out what'sgood and what's bad and Figure
out how to make it work and andutilize the experts around you
to kind of get them together.
Yeah, there's, hey and there,go through this stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I don't.
I'm not the most intelligentperson, that's for sure, but
anyways.
But if I don't know the answer,I, I know, know how to find it
again All right.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So we talked about getting on the roof, making sure
the modules fit.
We talked about looking atshading.
We talked a lot about the SES.
I don't think I want to talkmuch more about it.
I mean it's just.
The bottom line is it's eithergonna work or it's not.
If it's not gonna work, we'regonna try to do a D-rate.
If that's not gonna work, thenwe have to replace the panel.
We get into a lot of our panelreplacements and there's
obviously a cost to that.
Sometimes somebody's going to asystem size so big it requires
(29:58):
going from a 200 amp to a 400amp, right?
I mean so and God help us.
It takes a year to get a 400amp because of the back, the
backlogs from the pandemic andeverything else Are they?
Speaker 3 (30:06):
getting so much better.
Now us through the utilitycompany, we're gonna talk about
that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
So that's something we'll talk about, but there's a
lot involved in all that stuff.
So man and you and we'rehalfway through the audit.
Well, we're a good part throughof it and then like if we're
doing any kind of a trenching Imean it's a lot of times maybe
it's a detached garage, yeah,and there's patent those modules
on the detached and then youhave to go take a look at the
trenching issue of it, right,you know?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
and we do get those people like yeah, I put panels
on my you know detached garage,my barn in the back, like
everybody sees a separatedstructure and they think it's.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Oh, you just throw them on there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Right, so wait, the electricity doesn't just
magically jump from there toyour house.
No, interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I think about that.
So let's say we have to dotrenching.
What things are you looking forwhen you have to do that?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
What's in the way, what's in the path, or what's
the, the path of leastresistance between that
structure and this structure?
You know, these trenches, we,we have to send a private
locator out to find out wheregas and water is.
That's another thing.
The, the, the path to, from the, from the, from the other
structure to the house.
These trenches have our 18 to24 inches deep.
(31:11):
So, yeah, and they have to bethey, we have to trench and the
inspectors have to come out andlook at the trench.
Right and make sure thateverything's good and it's a
certain depth, and then we canbackfill and do all that stuff.
So I mean the distances, welook at the distances, we look
at what's in the way, um so waita second.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
When I talk to, people are like, well, I just go
hire some guys from Home Depotand they're gonna come and dig a
hole for me.
Yeah, that won't work.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Because you have to then then if it gets inspected
and you say, hey, here's thehere's where the conduit is
under the ground, and then youhave to go out there and and dig
a little hole so that somebodycan come out and inspect and
verify that it's 18 to 24 inchesdeep, anyways, it's just a big,
there's, it's a, it's a lot ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Let's do it the right way, Anyways but it's yeah,
there's a lot we do even morethat goes into that.
We do have those homeownerslike I'll just trench it myself
myself.
I'm like okay.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
We have, but it's got to meet the requirements.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
So you know coming out of the garage with a garden
trowel and I get it done inthree weeks.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I can tell that, talking about all this stuff,
you're probably gonna need adrink.
I'm not talking coffee Allright.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, it's good.
You think there's coffee inthere.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
All right, so we've done all that, you've looked at
all those things, and then Iknow that you guys also look at
safety concerns.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Right, so I know as a sales department.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
We have to actually kind of try to find them
ourselves.
Sometimes I know we talk aboutWell, we talk about their dogs
in the in the yard because ourauditor has to come and take a
look, but then you're looking atsafety things like I'm giving a
.
Give me an example of whatkinds of safety issues.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I find every once in a while and it's it's the
exception, not the rule thatthere will be Clutter yeah.
I've seen a lot of those aroundthe house in places where we
had need to be able to get onthe roof.
Yep, in order to further theguys that they install guys to,
you know to put their laddersback there and walk the modules
up on top of the roof.
And you know right.
(33:09):
Clutter Once again.
Not only is the the three bythree clearance issue that we
talked about for the electricalpanels, that's considered a
safety issue too, yeah, it makessense.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Um, I think I saw an audit notes.
There's like a beehive nearbyor something, or be like bees or
wasp in the backyard, like doyou remember that?
I mean he's probably seen somany, but I do remember seeing
one like they need to take careof the wasp.
So I'm like, yeah, well, yougot to take care of what we
don't want to get stung whilewe're doing house, so what else?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah, most of the time it's some of the some of
the two-story houses, in orderto get a, you know, get all the
way up on top of the two-storyhouse.
You know, sometimes there isn'ta Structure that you can step
up process.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So now you know it's 30 feet to the roof, and so we
have to get a crane in thosesituations sometimes right
Sometimes because we have thosemodules up there and we can't
just walk them up a ladder.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
So we like to.
We like to point out those kindof things.
Yeah, clutter being one one,things, clearance issues being
another thing, how we're gonnaget the stuff onto the roof.
We try to look at all thatstuff to make sure it's easy,
easier, as easy as it can be foreverybody.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And then I would think another thing that we have
to do, or that you have to door someone has to do I guess
this is a combination of thedesigners and you is we have to
determine the conduit runs right.
We have to make sure we canactually Do the conduit runs
correctly see how it's gonna getFrom the modules.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
The conduit is gonna get from the modules to the
service panel.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah and not just be ugly.
Yeah whether it's on top of theroof or in the attic.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, well, that's one thing.
I think that at Harmon, youknow, our standards are a little
bit higher when it comes toaesthetics and stuff like that.
So I agree anyways, just howwe're gonna do it.
Are we gonna tuck it up underthe Eve?
Are we gonna run her along astem wall?
How's it how much of it's gonnabe exposed to?
You know from the street andstuff like that?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
We try to look at all that stuff, so how much time
does an auditor spend at home onaverage?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
It just it really depends on the audit, but you
know we're looking at a hour,hour and a half usually, if I
had to get it.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Just varies but now or an hour and a half is
probably a good and does ahomeowner need to be there?
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yes, yes and no, they can, so depends so.
I kind of touched on it earlierbut I kind of touched on it
earlier.
But we have to, the designshave to have certain things.
So we've got to be able to getin the way we are.
We have to show where all thewater spigots are and stuff like
that, where the fences start,where they end.
(35:44):
All that stuff has to be inorder to pass.
For a design to pass permitting, we have to have all those
things.
They have to be accurate.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
So he's measuring all that stuff Sometimes.
Sometimes, yeah, and I knowthat we've done some pretty big
system and some really hugehomes and I know we've had a
team of people go out and dothose on it, yourself included
when you guys are, go out thereand spend hours out there.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
There's so much information that we have to grab
.
Sometimes I'll go out there onthese big, huge systems just to
make sure that we get everythingand somebody's double checking
somebody else.
We don't want to have to go outthere a second time.
We try to do it in one shot.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
But there are times now, to be fair.
There are times that we'regoing to have to maybe go out a
second time.
Maybe we looked at all theinformation and go we're missing
this, we're missing that, or weneed to really go back and
re-look at this so that canhappen.
We're not perfect yeah we'renot perfect, but also the
situation may dictate that alsoJust has nothing to do with
being perfect or not.
It's like now we need to goback and validate this or verify
(36:42):
this let's get it right, Rightget it right, get it right, or
sometimes things change.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
The customer finds out maybe later rather than
sooner that there's going to beexposed conduit on the roof and
they say, hey, how about runningit through the attic, or
something like that.
Then we got to go back out andtake a look in the attic.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, now we got to get in the attic and look at
everything there.
Okay, so once an auditor hasgone out there and done his job
and gone all this stuff and itwent an hour and a half,
whatever it takes for him to dothat so then what he does is
he's going to upload all thatinformation to our system.
So he has pictures 60 to 140pictures he has to upload.
He has to fill out the reporter.
(37:20):
If he's done it on the tool, hehas everything filled out and
he uploads everything.
So we usually give an auditorprobably 24 hours to do that,
after the audit 48, I'm sorry,48 hours.
So we'll get what's like 24 to40 hours.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
We'll edit that.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
So 24 to 48 hours to get that done.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Cause he's going to house, to house, to house.
No, I'm sorry it's 48 for me tostart looking at it.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Oh, we're gonna get to you.
Start looking at it it is 24for the audit no need to edit
Okay, auditor, you have 24 hoursor we're coming after you.
Clock starts, right, clockstarts now.
We're 48 to 72 for us to get in, so then we get into what's
called an audit compilation andthat's where you kick in, right?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I'm like okay, this is what makes me drink.
Yeah, so this is where,homeowners, you know you have to
have a little patience because,as soon as you know, the first
thing is someone coming out totheir home, taking all the
measurements and right away,like right, when they leave,
they'll call me and they go.
Okay, now what?
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Now we wait, and so the Lucas can do his job and
we'll figure it out from thereand find out what's going on.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, and we tell people.
I think we tell them to give usabout a week to get out there,
audit it, get all theinformation back then take a
look at it, and there's thingsafter that we'll talk about.
But so now we do what's calledan audit compilation, and that's
where you've gotten all thisinformation from the auditor.
I crunch it.
And yeah, you basically crunchit is what you do.
You have to go througheverything and if you see
anything that's questionable,like you may see, I've noticed
(38:40):
hey, the roof is questionable.
Hey, David, take a look at theroof.
And so the David is going tolook at pictures.
He might even just say I needto go out and take a second look
, and he'll go out and look atit.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
You'll see where he does that.
He'll get up on the roof andlift up tiles and take a more
stringent.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Look at it, he'll put his eye on it, and so that
could be something that candelay, or probably the biggest
one that I see.
That takes time and we havezero control over this Is now.
We need a utility input, so wehave to go back to the utility
and say, hey, this is going on,we need you to help us.
What do you want us to do?
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Give me an example of what we need.
I do that stuff too.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
What we need a utility input.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Okay, I'm gonna try not to bore everybody again.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Well, I'm getting to do detail, just in general.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Well, say there's an old service panel on the house
that doesn't offer, where theydon't manufacture the updated
parts that we need that havehigher capacities before they
interrupt ratings and stuffthings of that nature.
I have you guys talked aboutthat stuff before?
No, 22K rated parts.
(39:40):
No, not at all.
Not at all Not at all.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I like how he whispers out to the side yeah,
he does this.
Does anyone know about this?
So it's okay.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
No one's watching this.
No, it's okay.
Okay so.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Except for my mom, maybe.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Using higher inter-upgraded parts that have a
higher capacity before theylose their integrity and stuff
like that.
They hold up to a little bitmore heat current.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
To a more of an upgraded part, Upgraded part
Anyways.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
So some of the older panels they don't manufacture
parts like that for those oldpanels, so we get up and trying
to keep it less complicated.
We have to have upgraded partsto put in those panel in order
to pass, especially because ofnewer NEC codes and stuff like
that.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
And if we can't find them or they don't wanna make
them, then we have to change thepanel.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Then we have to change the panel Right so that
could be an example.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Or maybe, like we talked about with the wall and
access, if access doesn't make awhole lot of, if it's not there
, we don't think it's there wemight ask the utility Yep.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Are you okay with that?
Hey, this was already here likethis.
Can we grandfather this?
Because it was constructed likethis and somebody passed it
before.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
But we wanna make sure it's okay and they have to
give us our blessing.
They have to give us theblessing, yeah, otherwise we
have to move it.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
This is okay, like, hey, it was built this close to
the gas meter Originally wedidn't do anything, we just all
we did was go out and takepictures.
But listen, if you want us tomove it, we'll move it.
Or if you tell us it's okay tokeep there, then it goes through
a process.
It goes to somebody high enoughat APS or SRP or stuff like
(41:16):
that, where they say, hey, wecan work with this or no, it
needs to move.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And really they dictate it and we have to buy
about whatever they say, right,that's important, they're the
boss, not us saying it's them.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
And unfortunately sometimes that can take a little
bit.
We put an input request in.
It could take a week, it couldtake two weeks.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
We gotta change the service panel out for an old one
, for a new one.
I'm the one that does that too.
Anyways, it takes it's five dayprocess for them to respond
initially.
So, anyhow, sometimes they'rebetter, sometimes they're not so
good.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
It just depends, right, how busy they are with
time of year.
It is Just like anything else,just like even with us.
I mean, things change, thingshappen, but it takes time.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
It takes time.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I'm gonna get a job there and see if I can speed it
up.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
All right guys, let's get this five days down to two
and they give us all sorts ofinformation that tells us what
we have to do at install youknow, whether new PowerFee wires
need to come in, whether theservice needs to move, whether
the riser needs to be changedout all kinds of things that
tell us.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
My favorite is always when the transformer or the box
or whatever you call it, is inmy neighbor's yard or it's
running through my neighbors andwe have to get access to that
and that means we might have totrench in their yard or do
something in their yard.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
And now we have to get permission from the
neighbors and the utility has tocome out and take a look at it,
and they have to look ateasements and stuff like that.
Where's the transformer at?
What's the path of leaseresistance for Right.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I hope you have a good relationship with your
neighbor.
Because they will now control,they can say, no, we're done,
there's not a whole lot we cando about it.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Imagine that conversation like talk to a
homeowner who doesn't have solar, like why don't you have solar?
My neighbor said no, all right.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I mean, that happened , yeah.
I can think of times where wehad to go across the street to
do stuff and we had to trenchunderneath the street.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah, concrete work and pavement work.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
It can get crazy.
So I'm not trying to scarepeople, but I'm just saying
there are scenarios where wehave to really get a lot of
input and a lot of informationabout people, and that's really
what you're and your team's jobis is to gather that information
.
And all the information that youhave, and then you put it all
together and then you startlooking at our experts going hey
guys, this is what we have, andwe literally meet once a week
(43:27):
in a meeting and we talk aboutthis stuff and you come in all
frustrated and talk through it.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Well, it's just well, I guess.
There's a lot that goes into it.
Yeah, yeah.
And what's frustratingsometimes is not everybody
understands, yeah, and I have tobe the one that goes in and
says, hey, we can't do that.
They think it's just as easy.
Well, why don't you just dothat?
I'm like.
Well, because of this.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
And that's the problem with salespeople and us
being salespeople is we don'thave that knowledge or that
understanding.
So maybe sometimes we're not asfair to you as we should be,
but that's just honestly, I'mjust saying it.
It's our ignorance, right, wejust want to move forward.
But you're like I said aboutDave and everybody else.
You're helping to keep ushonest and say, hey, no, we got
to do it right for the customer,we got to do it right by the
rules and this and that, and sowe just can't do it that way.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
We just can't cut corners it just it ends up being
a bad.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, and not every home is the same.
You know, you can have thosecommunities where every home
looks the same because they'reall built the same, but then we
go out to the home and find outoh, this is a different issue
compared to your neighbor whogot sold with us, and compared
to the person across the streetwho got sold with us.
All three of you guys weredifferent.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
And that's where you guys, I know you try to explain
to customers.
You know, this is what trulysets us apart is you know we do
all this other stuff?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
What I really want to do is give the customers your
phone number, but they won't letme.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
I would love to talk.
We flash on the screen.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, we're going to flash on the screen.
I'm going to talk to each andevery one of them.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Go ahead and comment down in the comment section.
I'll be honest.
Lucas will answer.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Sometimes you guys tell us stuff and then I think
we have project managers even,and sometimes they'd maybe even
struggle with it, but they havea lot more experience than we do
.
But we say you explain that tothe customer because honestly I
don't know what to say.
Yeah, it no good, it won't work, because that's all I know.
But that's where a guy like you.
So it's important to showpeople you know the site auto
process that we have and theguys and the girls behind it
(45:14):
that really have to do a ton ofwork in that period of time just
to make sure your system'sgoing to work and get it to work
.
So it's.
I hear all the time from othercompanies or other customers
that, oh, you know, theypromised me they're going to get
this installed in 10 days or 15days and I'm just going to go.
Yeah, I don't think so, and ifthey do, I'd be really worried.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
I really want to see it, because I'm going to come
out there with a lawn chair anda paint product and I'm just
going to sit there and watch.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Oh, come on.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I want to see this.
The time frame is a time frame.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
There's not a whole lot we can do about it.
If you're installing a simpleone that just goes through it,
it's real easy, we're done andwe could probably move through
it in 45 days.
It's very possible.
But that's an, you know, that'sa clean job and they're not.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes
that a lot of people don't, youknow, are Unaware of, and we
kind of make it that way sohomeowners don't have to worry
about it.
You know there are issues thatcome up but we don't necessarily
have to, you know make it.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
We can fix this.
It's not as easy as just slapand solar.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah, it's just the audit is so important.
It's such a big part of thisprocess.
Once you've gone, you know,once you've signed on the dotted
line, yeah, this is a huge part.
This is the next huge hurdleyou have to get through.
And once you get through thisand it's all clean and then we
get to the design pros and we'regonna keep.
We're gonna be doing more andmore podcasts.
We're talking about the designprocess, we're gonna talk about
all the things that go on afterthat up to the install, which is
(46:33):
why we're gonna look to bring aproject manager on here soon,
and probably in the next coupleepisodes, and kind of talk About
how they now have to take thatinformation and how they have to
orchestrate this whole thing tomake it work.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
It's a it's a process , right yeah, it's an absolute
process.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I've had so many customers ask me you know, can
we do this, can we do that?
And I don't know.
The audits gonna decide what wecan and can't do.
So right, you know, and afterthat, who knows?
Right, we'll figure it outlater.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
And we're not trying to make it sound hard to know.
No, this is just the reality.
This is why you want a companythat knows what they're doing
yeah, on the back end to takecare of you, not just some
flabby night guy that's justtrying to sell you something.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
I don't yeah, I would rather know Other than solar,
just anything in life.
I'd rather have someone tell meI don't know, but we're gonna
find out, versus someone just goyeah, we could do that, and
then it be disappointed and letdown later.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yeah, typical sales guy.
We can do that?
Yeah, sure, we do anything.
I always answer that yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
I know I'm a pain in the butt sometimes, but like I
got to tell everybody the goodstuff and the bad stuff and we
have to figure out how to makeit work, I mean, and that's.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
No surprises.
Yep right, that's the key,that's the goal.
We do not want surprises at theend.
We want this all up front,taking care of.
So when we get to the end,you're happy, we're happy or no
surprises.
Because surprises are thekiller of solar.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
I really want the killer of anything.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, I mean we could go up there and just install
panels However we want, do wewant, but then the inspection
comes out and they go takeeverything down.
This is all wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I can't tell you how many times I hear that story
where, yeah, a couple thingsthat you know.
Oh, it's the end of the year,so I really want to get this up
there because of the tax creditin this or that yeah, this solar
company comes and we're justexperiencing this month.
Right, oh, I'm gonna go withthis company because they say
they can get up there.
Yeah, they probably can.
They could probably put astanchion in the panels up there
, not even permit it.
Yeah, get it all up there andthen just do this and pray.
(48:16):
It won't be turned on by theend of the year.
It'll be turned on five monthslater, eight months later,
because they do it backwards,right and we're just not gonna,
we're not gonna do that.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Say they put somebody throw solar on top of the root
of a bad roof and then a yearlater they have to tear it all
down.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, yeah, new roof and we've talked about the high
cost of that.
I mean, it's a per panel costand it's outrageous.
Yeah, you don't want to be inthat scenario.
So we got to do thing rightfrom the get, from the get go,
and that's why we have guys likeLucas.
That is, he's got a crucialpart of this process.
It's crucial part of thisprocess.
So we appreciate, Thank,everything you do, even though
sometimes in meetings it doesn'tsound like we appreciate it and
we get frustrated.
(48:51):
I know, I know that I'm a guythat does that sometimes true
story.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
But the reality is we're glad that there's guys
like you there because it helpsus this yeah, there's just a lot
that goes along, and I think so, thanks, there's just a lot of
stuff that goes into it.
People don't realize.
Anyways, I got to capture allthat stuff and and make sure
that everybody's aware ofeverything anyways.
So, yeah, anyhow it's important.
Sometimes I got to go in themeeting and say your baby's ugly
(49:15):
.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
And he does that.
Yeah, and I don't appreciateyou calling my baby yet.
No, not yours, you thoughtBen's, I guess my mind brought
an actual baby in the meeting.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
It's a little silly, kids ugly yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
So I mean that that's the side audit, that's, that's
the process that we go throughand it's, it's, you know, it's,
there's a lot to it and it takesa little bit of time.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
But we try to make it quick and painless.
But there's a lot of stuff thatwe got to get right.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Thanks for coming and joining us.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
We hope I gave you guys some useful information.
Maybe it's a little bit easierfor you guys to learn stuff
every day.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
No, I think it's been great.
I mean, I've been learning alot in these podcasts.
This is this is episode seven,I think.
Right, seven episodes, yeah, so, and we've learned a lot
through these seven episodes andbringing guys like you and
stuff I never thought I'd getyou in here, really.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
No, I was.
I came to you no.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Not not requested to be on here All right so.
Ben, what are we doing next?
I don't know what are we doingnext.
We had like a list yoursuggestion.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
We had a whole list of told me you wanted to do
something and I said you knowwhat?
We're gonna take one episodebreak, oh, no process, and we're
gonna do and we're gonna do onesolar 101, right?
Speaker 1 (50:21):
No, just what is solar and how does it work?
And we haven't touched that.
We've done all these tinylittle things, but we haven't
talked about big picture and weused to do solar 101 seminars.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, right, so we're gonna basically do a solar 101
seminar on the podcast.
Yeah, so that's what we'regonna do next time, so stay
tuned for that one.
That'll be pretty good.
That'll just be me and Ben.
Yeah, no guest.
No guest knows, maybe slides,but no, guest no slides today.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
That was really good right?
Yeah, it's like today, Don'tneed them.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
So me and Ben will come back at you and we'll do
solar 101 next Anything good,don't forget to like and
subscribe, and that's right, soall the good stuff like us,
subscribe, you can go to.
You can listen to us on Spotify,on iTunes, on I heart all the
little places for audio.
We're on YouTube, subscribe andlike to that channel.
Appreciate all support We'vebeen getting.
(51:03):
This is really starting to growand and we're gonna continue to
do this we hope to get anotherCouple done this year, as we're
getting toward the end of theyear and getting into
Thanksgiving and stuff.
So we appreciate support,appreciate you watching and we
will see you again soon.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Thank you.
Welcome to another edition of the Harmon and Solar
podcast.
I'm your host, ralph Romano, vpof Sales and Marketing at
Harmon and Solar.
With me my co-host, as always,ben Wulschlager.
You all know him as MrEverything Good to be back again
.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I didn't even ask you how you're doing, I'm just
telling everyone it's good to beback, okay well, I see, because
he enjoys coming here.
He likes to see me.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, I like the food .
We do have food here every time, so we won't talk about that.
So my question you know thequestion's coming, it always
comes.
I'm going to go back now.
So we had pamphlet, businesscard, pamphlet, right, we
started pamphlet, then we had ascroll, then we had an adventure
book, which was odd.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Where are we today?
Pretty much like a reader'sdigest, now.
We're reader's digestEverything.
Things get added to it all thetime Because you just Mr
Everything.
So yeah, added new things lastweek, so maybe we'll let our
guests know what the hell we'retalking about in a second.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So, okay, no, we'll just leave it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
We'll just leave it.
We can just refuse the wholeshow.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, that's perfect.
So today, ben, we're going totalk the site audit.
We don't like audits, you don'tlike audits.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
This is an IRS audit.
Okay, it doesn't say it, nevermind, because this guest is not
from the IRS.
I pay my taxes.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I do too, but today we're going to keep down the
path.
We've gone through all thesedifferent stages and now we've
hit the point of where we havethe site audit.
So we're going to talk aboutthe timing of that and
everything around that.
And today we get another guy.
We always got a guy or gal.
Today is another guy.
This guy's been around again along time I've been doing it a
long time and I would considerhim an expert in the site audits
(01:58):
right, which I understandsomewhat.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Not.
I don't know what you'refeeling is on that.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I mean, yeah, he knows what he's doing.
He's been around for a while,so I hope so, you know, we keep
him here, he's employed.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
He knows what he's doing.
Good.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
All right, well, let's bring him on.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Should we bring him on?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Sure, all right, push the button.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
What's that?
Push the button.
I don't know what I want to.
All right, okay, so we're gonnabring on Lucas.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
There he is.
Thanks for having me today.
Look at that guy.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Welcome Lucas.
So Lucas, coombs, coombs.
Coombs all right, so you areour site manager, supervisor, oh
.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I kind of supervisor, I guess, is what we're called.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, okay, all right , so you're a site audit
supervisor.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Should we have a made up tile for him, like we do?
Daniel?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
We won't talk about Daniel Simon.
We never talk about that.
So how long have you been atHarmon?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, I started at Harmon in 2013.
I went back to college for alittle while and came back, but
this last eight years, Eightyears, there you go.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
That's pretty good.
That's just your last stint,but you're actually working with
us.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I probably got almost 10 years with Harmon all
together.
So 10 years Commercial.
I worked on the commercial side, then the commercial, the
commercial electric, commercial,solar, and then I came into a
resident auditing in the office.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Which is better, you can tell I like the air
conditioning.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
So, anyways, I like being inside.
All right, it was really hotout there on it was really hot
out there.
I still get on the roof everyonce in a while, but anyways.
Okay, I'm an old goat and Ilike to be in the air
conditioning.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
He's bougie now.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
What did you do before Harmon?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Last paying job I had .
I actually worked lawenforcement out in Georgia.
So anyways, I'm from Georgia.
I was born in Montana, grew upin California and moved to
Georgia.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Where'd you grow up?
In California?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Vacaville, California Is that north.
Right next to Travis Air ForceBase.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh okay.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So it's a Sacramento 45 minutes from Sacramento.
Okay, ralph likes to pretendhe's from California.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I am from Southern California.
He's a North California guy.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
I was stationed at Pendleton when I was in the
Marine Corps.
First rule of being a Marine isyou have to tell everybody that
you're a Marine.
So anybody, any jar heads outthere in podcast land.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Okay, mission accomplished, mission
accomplished, we'll put that inthe hashtag.
Hashtag Marine.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
We will, actually we will do that.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, so let's talk about what you do at Harmon
currently.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I supervise pretty much.
I supervise all of theinformation that we gather when
we audit.
That gets pushed through tosales operation and the design
department.
I kind of make sure I overseethe process of collecting all
the information and making surethat all the information that
needs to be passed gets passedto everybody.
(04:45):
So if that, I'm trying toencapsulate it in a nutshell.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, that's good.
So you have an auditor orauditor.
Does that work for you?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, I have one auditor right now.
He's a handsome young strappinglad that comes and trips around
on people's rooftops like SantaClaus.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Nice, all right, does he wear a little?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
red suit, white beard , if we ask him nicely, if we
ask him nicely, we should dothat the month of December make
him dress up as Santa for allaudits.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
All right, so let's talk about the site audit.
So we're going to educatepeople on what exactly that is.
So once you buy a system fromHarmon and we've gone through
their contract process and allthat, the next thing that's
going to happen, the logicalnext step, would be to us to
come out and do a site audit.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So you can't just look at the proposal and be like
, oh, panels are going here,let's go ahead and install them.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We trust satellites and Google and we know it's
going to fit and hope it fitsRight.
So we're better than that andplus, there's a lot of things
that we've got to look at thatwe're going to talk about.
So a site audit, what is a siteaudit?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I'm going to ask our guest, let the expert do it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So I'm going to come to you and say what's a site
audit?
What is a site audit?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Basically, what I tell people a site audit is is
whenever we come out there andwe take pictures of everything
that you got and see what it'sgoing to take to put solar on
your house.
We're taking a bunch ofpictures around the house, on
top of the house, of theelectrical service and basically
gathering all the informationthat we need In order to see
what it's going to take to putsolar on.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So you've met Dennis right, and we trust Dennis.
Sometimes, no, we trust Dennis,we do, but when you Dennis is
good people.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
He's good people.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But when he sells something, he's selling it based
on whatever Daniel.
We all met Daniel.
What Daniel?
put together for him based onwhat a satellite tells us, and
we need to be able to nowvalidate that we can actually
put that system on that roof.
And we're not only going tolook at the roof, but we're
going to look at other thingstoo to help us validate that.
So that's why you and your teamare there.
So that's what's good.
(06:41):
Now there's two types of siteaudits, I mean.
So we've been playing with onetype and that's where we have.
Basically, we take pictures outof the site without an auditor
going out.
Maybe a salesperson will takepictures of everything that we
need them to take pictures of.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We'll give them a listen, and say, hey, we need to
see.
All this stuff Gives you guys agood preliminary idea of what's
going on Gives us a good idea,and we typically do this with
stuff that's like maybe in Yumaor in Tucson or farther away,
because we don't want to have toreally roll a truck out there
and if we can gather enoughinformation then we think we're
good.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Then we're going to stamp it and move forward.
It's newer, harman.
We've probably been doing thatsix months to a year.
A lot of companies do that allthe time.
We don't like to do it all thetime.
We'd rather get our boots onthe ground, our boots on the
roof, whatever, and do it thatway.
So that's one of the types ofsite audits.
So that's called.
It's basically a non-truck rollaudit.
We're going to focus on thetruck roll audit, which is what
(07:36):
you and your team take care of.
And obviously the big issuewith why you want to roll a
truck is, if we miss something,the repercussions of missing
that.
So, like you were talking aboutin the last podcast, you can
see the roof and maybe get somemeasurements and stuff, but you
can't see underneath the roof.
You can't lift a tile and sayhow's the recondition of that
(07:58):
roof.
So that's where it gets tricky.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Or the side of the house or backyard.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
There's a lot of things that you can't see, we
don't know, so that's why werely on it, and the worst thing
that can happen is we don'tcatch that stuff and then we get
down to where we're gettingready to install.
Oh look what, we just foundthat we were up on your roof, Mr
Customer.
Yeah, that's going to cost timeand money.
Customer doesn't want to hearthat, so that's why we always
try to roll a truck most of thetime unless it's way out there
(08:23):
and we just can't do it, forwhatever I have a recent site
audit story, so sold the system.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
It looked great on the roof and everything.
We won't mention names, Keepthe person secret.
I guess Everything looked great.
But then after the site auditwe realized there was a giant AC
unit in front of the servicepanel.
Oh wow, remember that one.
I don't know if you knew.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
We were involved in that one.
You probably know that one.
Yeah, I know all about that one.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, so I didn't know, we didn't know doing the
sale.
But when we came out to thesite audit we go this is a big
issue, this is going to costsome delays and things like that
, so we have to take care of itas soon as possible.
So customer took care of it.
They moved the AC unit from thesite service panel.
Everything went smoothly.
But if we went ahead and didthe permitting and the install
(09:08):
and all that stuff, then theycame out and failed inspection,
that would not look good on us.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, all the electrical equipment they have
to maintain a walk-up clearance,a 3 by 3 clearance from front
of all the new electricalequipment.
People don't realize that, andanyway.
So that's another reason why wego out there.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, so it's important to do the in-person
site audit to make sure that wegot everything that we need to
before we move on.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And one of the things that your auditor does when
he's out there, besides lookingat everything, I know they get a
checklist of a million thingsthat they have to look at.
I know because I helped buildthat in one of our software
pieces and I was like man, thisis a lot of stuff, but I get it
right.
But one of the things I noticedwas they take a million
pictures.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I mean like Right now we've got it narrowed down to
between 60 and 150 because wehave more.
The easy ones are about 60.
But then we have batteryinstalls and stuff like that
where we need more information.
We've got to get in the garages.
It's just a lot of pictures.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Let's do a video next time On the pictures.
No, just like a full cinematic,two-hour video of the entire
house.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I didn't realize.
I mean, I knew it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
That's a lot.
There's a lot of people don'trealize that there are a lot of
little things that we have tocapture, like where are the
fences, where are the gates?
All those things, where is thewater?
Where is the gas?
Those things have to becaptured for the design plan in
order to pass permitting andstuff like that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So we're going to kind of go down the list of some
of those things just to givepeople kind of an understanding,
because I think that's a reallygood point is, they don't
understand.
There's so much involved hereand there's code violations,
there's this, there's that andyou can get to the point where
if something's done in the houseand it's not permitted, and now
we go to put solar somewhereand then the inspector comes out
.
Guess what?
Yeah, I have an issue with thecity.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yep, we just ran into one of those other day.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I've had homeowners who've taken a look at you know
I've asked them a question.
I can look at the side out ofphotos and they they're like I
didn't even.
I don't know what that is.
I didn't how long you lived inyour home, but ten years.
You've been living here for tenyears.
You know, you know, no, thatthis is on the side of your
house.
Nope, all right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Good thing we got those pictures so, and we're
opening up a can of wormspotentially.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, sometimes yeah, so well, we have to right now.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So let's talk about the things that we're looking
for.
So I know the main.
I'll start at the very firstone.
We're looking to see if thedesign of the panels will fit
right.
I mean, so how, how does ourauditor, what does he do?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So we we like to think that that's Responsibility
number one for the auditorsmake sure, first and foremost,
that the modules are gonna fiton top of the right.
So what he's gonna do is he'sgonna drag his stuff on top of
the roof there's ladder out,there, safety, all that stuff
Climb up on the roof and startoff Chalking stuff out three
foot clip fire clearances.
(11:42):
He's gonna start there.
He's gonna start with thiscorner module on one particular
roof plane and then he's gonnago from there.
He's gonna start making his.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
He literally chocks it out, yeah, literally chocks
it out, yeah.
So he's saying well, will thisfit?
Yep, and if it won't?
Speaker 3 (11:59):
For obstructions like vans, or we just we have less
room than we anticipated, orsomething like that.
He's gonna start, you know move, trying to see where we can put
modules if they won't fit forone particular reason or another
.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So and we've talked about in our last episode was
why, you know why we design theway we design, with panels and
all the obstructions andeverything.
So this kind of ties right intothat.
And now we have a person on theroof that's actually looking
for this stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, because sometimes on those preliminary
designs there might be like alittle blurry thing on the roof
that we don't know it is, but isit a van, or you know, is this
dead squirrel right, you knowpigeon that just sat there or
something for the photo?
But then we get on the roof.
Oh, it was this, and now we canmove things around around it so
right.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And then, once you've done that, I mean remember back
in the day we used to have thelittle tool to check the Sun.
Do you remember that?
The Sun, sun, I actually I havethat at my house.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah you should have brought us and brought it.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
We still use it every once in a while.
I have one particular laptopthat I can't update because if I
do, it won't work with the oldSun I machine.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And that would just measure the actual Sun and
shading and stuff for thosefurther the so much of machine
actually.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know you pointed at 180 degrees, you put it where
the models are gonna go, yousay what azimuth, what tilt, and
it tells you how much Sun'sgonna remember that we got away
from using that now because theSoftware's are so advanced, they
can actually do that for us now.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yep, but that was back in the day and we were
talking like, wow, remember guysgetting up there doing that
with their advocates Once you'vedone that stuff, now you're
looking at roof condition what?
What do you do To determine theroof is good or bad?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
well, it's Arizona.
Everything's usually Concretetile has tiles, flat tiles,
stuff like that.
There's underlayment underneaththose tiles.
We flip up the tiles when weget out there and we take a look
at especially where the overlapis.
There are things that we lookfor a Weathering drying moisture
(13:52):
.
There's moisture stains Curlingwhenever it's been Exposed to
the elements for too long.
Actually, the paper where theoverlap is, we'll start Well,
curl it up, yeah and then welook for other things like ridge
seal, plastic Ridge seal andstuff like that.
We flip those tiles up.
What we want, the plastic Ridgeseal, therefore, is to
(14:15):
Basically weatherproof the solarplane.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So right nice kind of the stuff, david, went into
going into this episode.
Yeah, it's starting to be likea full-on doctor's checkup, you
know.
Yeah, that's exactly kind ofwhat it is.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, we look, we look underneath the tiles, we we
see what kind of shape theunderlayment is in the.
Just looking at the, justlooking from the ground up to
the roof and looking at thetiles and the flat tiles on the
s-tiles, you can't tell whatconditional roof?
Right, so anyway.
So we get up there and we do alittle investigating.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So, yeah, it's good information for the homeowner
too, because you know they couldthink everything's right,
honky-dory in their home, andthen we go out and take a look
at the roof and then go by theway.
This is, you know, a coupledays away from a leak.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So just so you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
We definitely want to capture that stuff in the
beginning, rather than right andright sure what percentage, and
I'm just gonna fill us outthere what percentage of roofs
actually fail in your mind thatyou look at.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I would like to say 55%.
Maybe it's not that bad, but no, it's not that bad.
Five you guys have had DaveColeman on, here is your roofing
manager and Me and Dave havehad a million conversations.
People don't realize that outhere in the heat, you know they
think 20 year roofs, 25 yearroofs in their shingles.
It's just not the case right.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's just like buying a car battery.
You know you buy a car batteryand has that three-year warranty
, but everyone who's selling youthat car party battery goes.
It's not, it's three-yearwarranty but it's probably gonna
die in about a year and a halfbecause we eat right around.
We know this 12 years.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, so anything with roof, Yep, so, um, that's
what.
That's what I've been told, andI wasn't a subject matter
expert on roofs in the beginning, but I've talked to roofers and
talking to Dave and stuff likethat.
I'm kind of forced into it,forced into it.
Yeah anyways, and we're prettygood at making a good initial
assessment and then, if we needto, for him to look in depth
(16:01):
into it because he's a subjectmatter expert he will right.
So Cool, I love how we'regetting full circle here.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, it's kind of cool, right?
We should have a podcast witheveryone one day.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Oh, I'll put them on top of each other.
A lot of microphones.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
No.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
All right, so let's talk about the heart.
I think this, this is where theheart of them ever talking
about being a doctor, going tothe office and physical.
The heart to me is theElectrical panel.
Right, because that's whereeverything's gonna centralize in
, and I know there's so manythings without a panel.
It's, and I'll try to keep itunderstandable.
Yeah, so I mean, let's justtalk about that.
You'd be mentioned briefly.
(16:38):
Codes the code issues, so whatit?
What is the general rule forpanels as far as like clearance,
stuff like that?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Okay for all the electrical equipment there's.
Basically, you got to look atit like a three by three box in
front of your service panel.
That goes all the way to thesky, Anyways nothing, nothing in
that thing in front of it.
No, nothing, you know justnothing can encroach upon that
area, right?
So, anyways, when?
And that's just um, that's autility requirement.
(17:05):
Yeah, it's a safety thing andit's safety utility If something
, something catastrophic were tohappen.
They need to be able to makesure that they don't have to try
to get around a tree, right orfoliage in order to get to your
panel to cut it off so thatnobody gets electrocuted or
something like that, so you haveclearance rules.
No it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
how about by walls?
It can't be behind a wall orthere's I know APS has rules
about walls.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
No, we can put stuff behind walls, it's iffy, it's.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
They have to have Like 24-hour access to it, so
it's like gates, just anythinganything like a service
disconnect that it's.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It all boils down to safety.
So, in order to turn somethingoff, do firemen have to go into
the backyard in order to turn itoff, before they can get on the
roof and poke a hole to letHeat out?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
whenever there's a fire right.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So anyways, they want it all when it's accessible
right, so everything has to beaccessible.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yes, right, you can't have it in your podcast room,
in your upstairs house.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Which you see a lot in the Midwest, where they have
those inside the house.
Yeah, yeah a lot of them atthose services are actually in
the house and a closet.
Oh wow, yeah.
As we opened up in Oklahoma, westarted finding services in the
closet.
Oh, they're my sweater, there'smy jacket, there's my service.
Different jurisdictions.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, it's just different.
Right in Arizona is verydifferent.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And then you know it's funny.
I see I see pictures all thetime and I know you guys are
looking at pictures all the time, but there could be like a gas
pipe running right under, rightunder an electric panel or a
water pipe.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You see all kinds of stuff with Unpermitted additions
and stuff like that, peopledoing stuff that they're not
really supposed to do, anyways,and we run into stuff like that.
But there's, there's rules foreverything.
So anyways, yeah, gas and water.
Putting weird places right nextto the service panel which
right you know you don't wantgas right in front of a,
(18:51):
something that could spark.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You don't want water, like just water, really good
friends waters waters aconductor.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So, we just saw one last week.
Brad showed me and Brad's ourdirector of operations.
He showed me a picture ofsomebody that had like a water
spout that was running for somekind of a washer in the house
Mm-hmm, right underneath.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, yes, yes, like someone just did it that way.
Yeah, you can't do that in.
Homeowners don't know.
They know they just have someguy come out and do it and they
think it's everything's up tocode and you know and they they
find out later.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
On storm rolls over the lake and you're in the water
.
You get out.
It should make sense that youdon't want water near
electricity.
Yeah yeah, you don't want gas.
You know, spark big boom right.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And then I know that you know we have our operations
meeting and it's it's a constantconversation about breakers,
like there's a main breakerwhich, whatever that is, it's
gonna be a 200, 250, 175, 200amp.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
It's the main service disconnect.
So when you flip the mainbreaker and then all your
circuit breakers after that,mm-hmm don't work.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So, so that main breaker sometimes has to be, you
know, it cuts all the power.
It cuts all the power and we,sometimes we do a thing called
derating Mm-hmm, what's thatthis is one of the hot.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Yes, this is one of the hardest concepts to explain
um.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
And I don't have my head around it.
I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I'm gonna try to make it.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's me, but it's anyways.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
So there's national electric code has rules for
solar back feed and theelectrical service.
So basically, your, your backfeed breaker plus your main
breaker cannot exceed 120% ofthe bus rating which is usually
out here in Arizona 200 amps.
So you have there's a numberthat you have to look for 240.
(20:42):
You can usually 120% of the 200amp, bus rating is 240.
So a 60 amp breaker Plus ahundred and seventy five amp
main breaker.
So solar 60 amps Main breakers,175 amps.
When you add them together itequals 235 and you're gets under
240, which is 120% of the busrating.
So as long as you're below the240, You're right but anyway.
(21:07):
But there's.
And then to on a 225 amp busyou have, a 270 is 120%.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So now there's different rules, that's just I
don't want to get too far, Idon't want to get in the weeds.
That I understand.
We'll do something like a wholepodcast on D-rate.
Yeah, we'll talk about becausethat actually we do do.
I think they did in my house.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, it was a 200 amp.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Now it's 175 mine too right.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
So they did that in order, so it works.
So we'll get, we'll get intothat.
But there's a whole yeah,there's a probably a whole
conversation just about that andit's very technical and it
might kill people to listen to,because I've been listening to
it for 10 years and I still kindof get it.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, so you can exclude you from that.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, you just when, when you add the solar breakers,
sometimes you have to make themain breaker smaller in order to
not exceed limitations.
Anyways, I'm not gonna now.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So it's okay.
But now I know one of thethings you guys do is you get
into load calcs, so that'sprobably not as complicated.
That's all me, that's all youright.
We're boring.
So what is a low?
What is load calc?
We talk customers yeah, we haveto do a load calc to see if
it's gonna work.
They're like what right?
I even say what what's a loadcalc.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So the load calculation is a sum of all your
All, the sum of all thecircuits that you have on your
house.
So so you add them all up, addthem all up and that tells you
down and it tells me whether Ican do the D-ray that we just
talked about.
Okay, so you have.
So I have to make sure that theload calculations, if I D-ray
to main breaker 275 amps, haveto make sure the load
calculations stay on 175 amps,or else It'll just pop and pop,
(22:27):
okay.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
All information we can't get from an aerial view.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I got my whole point of having this conversation
right there's just a millionthings that it's just little
things.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm sure you guys have talked about it before, but
Arizona is so unique in thatyou know all the jurisdictions
go by.
You know it's not a uniformpolicy different codes,
different building codes,different electric codes, so
anyways, and we have to makesure that we get grab all this
information that will please allof the jurisdiction.
Yeah so anyways.
So we have to get somethingspecific for this place and we
(23:00):
have to get something right, butwe have to do it every single
time.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So it's an all-encompassing thing that we
have to get a lot of thosehomeowners will mind it.
You know, my friend didn't haveto do that like well, there
they're in Glendale and yourimperial.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's the difference , yeah, and people don't get
that right and they don'tunderstand that you're where you
live.
It really drives all the rulesright.
Peoria is different fromPhoenix.
Phoenix is different fromMaricopa.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
County.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
All these different rules and we have to, and that
it goes for setbacks, that goesfor the electrical side, it's
everything yeah, and then youknow you live in Scottsdale but
it's actually a Phoenixjurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, we have to go out for this and that, and so
it's absolutely very unique.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's very unique and we talk about customization.
That's just another form ofit's, customized to the utility
and what they want so, geez,that's true.
And then I know, I know one ofthe things we talked about is
dead fronts, because I guesswhat you guys do is when you,
when you, look at the panel, theguy goes in there and takes the
front off.
It takes a picture of the bossand all the it's just the cover
over the breakers right anywaystake it off and.
(23:57):
We've got customers go, I canjust take that off.
Well, no, because if you takeit off and touch the wrong thing
, you're gonna die.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Let us do it.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, because you can right.
I mean, there's enough powerback there it can kill you.
Yeah, it's, you know her show.
So is that how we pick ourauditors?
We kind of like him, but wedon't we say you're the dead
front auditor.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
No kidding.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
So initiation we don't have many looking at all
of that stuff, all that stuffyeah, not only that.
You know, once we pull the deadfront off, we see what's
connected, what's not connectedwas turned off, was turned on
anyways.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So and then I know that the the little tube on the
bottom of.
So you have your, you have yourpanel, and then there's a tube
that comes from the ground andgoes into that and that's called
a riser, riser, and I alwayssee that we replace those a lot.
Why would we replace the riser?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
In order to pass inspection.
We can't have anything that'scracked, so sometimes we have
their rigid metal conduit risers, their PVC risers anyways, and
PVC is just plastic on steroidsand Anyways so it it breaks in
the heat.
Yeah anyways, and not only that.
Whenever our house is firstbuilt, you know the risers put
(25:07):
in, and then there's Settlingand stuff like that so you know,
a couple months after it's therisers put in there and the
electrical services on the house, you know, and things start
shifting and heat and cold andrain and all that stuff and it
could crack it.
Right at the base of the Hubthere's a little hub that
connects the riser to theservice entrance section.
(25:27):
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So all good info yeah .
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I know that and we replaced a lot of those, but it
has to be intact before it'llpass inspection.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So if we go out there and it's cracked, it's got to
be fixed before we finish all ofour stuff and we're doing a lot
of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
For that we have to pass an inspection.
We don't want to fail theinspection.
That's just gonna anger us,anger you.
Right, we have to do safetybehind it.
We got to make sure thisthing's not gonna explode or
catch fire, so we got to followall those different rules and so
that the service panel is theheart of the solar installation.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, we joke about that.
But there's yeah, there's a lotof homeowners like, well, why
are you doing this?
I don't want this.
Like, well, your home couldcatch on fire if we don't do
that.
So this is why we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I mean, we have a classic example that we've been
talking with this customer forprobably two months, where
somebody went out there and didsomething on this guy's panel,
where it's just it's oh yeah,it's not right, it's it's.
We're afraid it's gonna catchon fire and we don't want to put
our name on this thing andstart touching this and just
leave it the way it is right.
We got the manufacturerinvolved, we got a bunch of
(26:25):
people involved in this and saidis this right?
And they're like absolutely not, this needs to be fixed.
Yeah, and the customer washearing from the electricians
that they were talking to is ohno, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
It's not fine, and we're not gonna touch this.
We're actually gonna cancelthis project unless you do it
the right way.
Right, right.
And so that one of the reasonssometimes Harman gets a bad rap
is because we're not willing tojust do anything.
Yeah right, and we just can.
We're gonna do what's right foryou and, I forgot, for us as
well, because it's our liabilityand People don't like that.
But I think they finallydecided to go with it.
I think we're actually gonnareplace that.
I'm no.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I'm the one that found that discrepancy, yeah,
and anyways, and I was like whoa, that's not right, anyways, and
I'm not gonna bore you with thedetails or anything like that,
but they will.
Another electrician wired itwrong, right, and it has a
serious potential foroverheating or possibly fire or
(27:16):
damage because they got too muchelectricity go into one spot.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I know you're homeowner potential electricity
going to one spot.
Yeah, a homeowner is going okay, well, I have my electrician
saying it was done right, harmansaying is done wrong, who's
right?
So then that's why we okay,we're gonna get the manufacturer
involved right, other entitiesinvolved, and go here's all the
facts.
Now you make the decision ofwho's right or wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
And this took almost two months, turns out right,
yeah to actually make thedecision, but it was, yeah, we
had to come down.
We finally just said, hey,either we do it this way or we
just walk away.
Right, we're not doing thisright, so, and that's I agree,
that's exactly what we should do, okay, so we're talking about
the heart.
We'll get away from the heartfor a second.
You guys are also when you'redoing audits.
If we sell batteries, you'relooking at, you're looking at
(28:01):
the location for batteries.
I know there's a lot involvedin that, even more involved in
that right so.
I mean, I guess, if I tone itdown a little bit that you're
looking for a certain distancefrom the actual service.
We try to keep it close, likewithin 20 feet, 30 feet.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
We'd like to keep it within 20 feet, is you know?
We're looking at minimizingconduit runs and wire length and
stuff like that.
Anyways, but there's.
There's other things that gointo it.
If you put it on the outside ofthe house, we can't be more
than, or we can't be more thanCloser than five feet to doors
and windows.
There's other things, there's alot of rules.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, and some some of them are a Jurisdiction rules
and some are like Tesla rules.
For instance, tesla has TeslaTesla has.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
One of the Installation rules is uh, you
know, if we put it on theoutside of the house, they don't
want it on the backside ofLiving or living area.
So it let's say right outsideof a bedroom.
Outside of a bedroom.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
They wanted outside your kitchen.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, so we have to.
We have to know what's on theother side of the wall too, wow
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So this is the smartest guy in the room, right?
All this should.
I leave smarter than you reallyall this stuff he has to
remember, have to remember.
Yeah, that's a lot of rules.
It's insane right and that thisis your job on a daily basis,
to know all this?
I have to figure out what'sgood and what's bad and Figure
out how to make it work and andutilize the experts around you
to kind of get them together.
Yeah, there's, hey and there,go through this stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I don't.
I'm not the most intelligentperson, that's for sure, but
anyways.
But if I don't know the answer,I, I know, know how to find it
again All right.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So we talked about getting on the roof, making sure
the modules fit.
We talked about looking atshading.
We talked a lot about the SES.
I don't think I want to talkmuch more about it.
I mean it's just.
The bottom line is it's eithergonna work or it's not.
If it's not gonna work, we'regonna try to do a D-rate.
If that's not gonna work, thenwe have to replace the panel.
We get into a lot of our panelreplacements and there's
obviously a cost to that.
Sometimes somebody's going to asystem size so big it requires
(29:58):
going from a 200 amp to a 400amp, right?
I mean so and God help us.
It takes a year to get a 400amp because of the back, the
backlogs from the pandemic andeverything else Are they?
Speaker 3 (30:06):
getting so much better.
Now us through the utilitycompany, we're gonna talk about
that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
So that's something we'll talk about, but there's a
lot involved in all that stuff.
So man and you and we'rehalfway through the audit.
Well, we're a good part throughof it and then like if we're
doing any kind of a trenching Imean it's a lot of times maybe
it's a detached garage, yeah,and there's patent those modules
on the detached and then youhave to go take a look at the
trenching issue of it, right,you know?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
and we do get those people like yeah, I put panels
on my you know detached garage,my barn in the back, like
everybody sees a separatedstructure and they think it's.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Oh, you just throw them on there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Right, so wait, the electricity doesn't just
magically jump from there toyour house.
No, interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I think about that.
So let's say we have to dotrenching.
What things are you looking forwhen you have to do that?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
What's in the way, what's in the path, or what's
the, the path of leastresistance between that
structure and this structure?
You know, these trenches, we,we have to send a private
locator out to find out wheregas and water is.
That's another thing.
The, the, the path to, from the, from the, from the other
structure to the house.
These trenches have our 18 to24 inches deep.
(31:11):
So, yeah, and they have to bethey, we have to trench and the
inspectors have to come out andlook at the trench.
Right and make sure thateverything's good and it's a
certain depth, and then we canbackfill and do all that stuff.
So I mean the distances, welook at the distances, we look
at what's in the way, um so waita second.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
When I talk to, people are like, well, I just go
hire some guys from Home Depotand they're gonna come and dig a
hole for me.
Yeah, that won't work.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Because you have to then then if it gets inspected
and you say, hey, here's thehere's where the conduit is
under the ground, and then youhave to go out there and and dig
a little hole so that somebodycan come out and inspect and
verify that it's 18 to 24 inchesdeep, anyways, it's just a big,
there's, it's a, it's a lot ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Let's do it the right way, Anyways but it's yeah,
there's a lot we do even morethat goes into that.
We do have those homeownerslike I'll just trench it myself
myself.
I'm like okay.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
We have, but it's got to meet the requirements.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
So you know coming out of the garage with a garden
trowel and I get it done inthree weeks.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I can tell that, talking about all this stuff,
you're probably gonna need adrink.
I'm not talking coffee Allright.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, it's good.
You think there's coffee inthere.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
All right, so we've done all that, you've looked at
all those things, and then Iknow that you guys also look at
safety concerns.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Right, so I know as a sales department.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
We have to actually kind of try to find them
ourselves.
Sometimes I know we talk aboutWell, we talk about their dogs
in the in the yard because ourauditor has to come and take a
look, but then you're looking atsafety things like I'm giving a
.
Give me an example of whatkinds of safety issues.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I find every once in a while and it's it's the
exception, not the rule thatthere will be Clutter yeah.
I've seen a lot of those aroundthe house in places where we
had need to be able to get onthe roof.
Yep, in order to further theguys that they install guys to,
you know to put their laddersback there and walk the modules
up on top of the roof.
And you know right.
(33:09):
Clutter Once again.
Not only is the the three bythree clearance issue that we
talked about for the electricalpanels, that's considered a
safety issue too, yeah, it makessense.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Um, I think I saw an audit notes.
There's like a beehive nearbyor something, or be like bees or
wasp in the backyard, like doyou remember that?
I mean he's probably seen somany, but I do remember seeing
one like they need to take careof the wasp.
So I'm like, yeah, well, yougot to take care of what we
don't want to get stung whilewe're doing house, so what else?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah, most of the time it's some of the some of
the two-story houses, in orderto get a, you know, get all the
way up on top of the two-storyhouse.
You know, sometimes there isn'ta Structure that you can step
up process.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So now you know it's 30 feet to the roof, and so we
have to get a crane in thosesituations sometimes right
Sometimes because we have thosemodules up there and we can't
just walk them up a ladder.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
So we like to.
We like to point out those kindof things.
Yeah, clutter being one one,things, clearance issues being
another thing, how we're gonnaget the stuff onto the roof.
We try to look at all thatstuff to make sure it's easy,
easier, as easy as it can be foreverybody.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And then I would think another thing that we have
to do, or that you have to door someone has to do I guess
this is a combination of thedesigners and you is we have to
determine the conduit runs right.
We have to make sure we canactually Do the conduit runs
correctly see how it's gonna getFrom the modules.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
The conduit is gonna get from the modules to the
service panel.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah and not just be ugly.
Yeah whether it's on top of theroof or in the attic.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, well, that's one thing.
I think that at Harmon, youknow, our standards are a little
bit higher when it comes toaesthetics and stuff like that.
So I agree anyways, just howwe're gonna do it.
Are we gonna tuck it up underthe Eve?
Are we gonna run her along astem wall?
How's it how much of it's gonnabe exposed to?
You know from the street andstuff like that?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
We try to look at all that stuff, so how much time
does an auditor spend at home onaverage?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
It just it really depends on the audit, but you
know we're looking at a hour,hour and a half usually, if I
had to get it.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Just varies but now or an hour and a half is
probably a good and does ahomeowner need to be there?
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yes, yes and no, they can, so depends so.
I kind of touched on it earlierbut I kind of touched on it
earlier.
But we have to, the designshave to have certain things.
So we've got to be able to getin the way we are.
We have to show where all thewater spigots are and stuff like
that, where the fences start,where they end.
(35:44):
All that stuff has to be inorder to pass.
For a design to pass permitting, we have to have all those
things.
They have to be accurate.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
So he's measuring all that stuff Sometimes.
Sometimes, yeah, and I knowthat we've done some pretty big
system and some really hugehomes and I know we've had a
team of people go out and dothose on it, yourself included
when you guys are, go out thereand spend hours out there.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
There's so much information that we have to grab
.
Sometimes I'll go out there onthese big, huge systems just to
make sure that we get everythingand somebody's double checking
somebody else.
We don't want to have to go outthere a second time.
We try to do it in one shot.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
But there are times now, to be fair.
There are times that we'regoing to have to maybe go out a
second time.
Maybe we looked at all theinformation and go we're missing
this, we're missing that, or weneed to really go back and
re-look at this so that canhappen.
We're not perfect yeah we'renot perfect, but also the
situation may dictate that alsoJust has nothing to do with
being perfect or not.
It's like now we need to goback and validate this or verify
(36:42):
this let's get it right, Rightget it right, get it right, or
sometimes things change.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
The customer finds out maybe later rather than
sooner that there's going to beexposed conduit on the roof and
they say, hey, how about runningit through the attic, or
something like that.
Then we got to go back out andtake a look in the attic.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, now we got to get in the attic and look at
everything there.
Okay, so once an auditor hasgone out there and done his job
and gone all this stuff and itwent an hour and a half,
whatever it takes for him to dothat so then what he does is
he's going to upload all thatinformation to our system.
So he has pictures 60 to 140pictures he has to upload.
He has to fill out the reporter.
(37:20):
If he's done it on the tool, hehas everything filled out and
he uploads everything.
So we usually give an auditorprobably 24 hours to do that,
after the audit 48, I'm sorry,48 hours.
So we'll get what's like 24 to40 hours.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
We'll edit that.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
So 24 to 48 hours to get that done.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Cause he's going to house, to house, to house.
No, I'm sorry it's 48 for me tostart looking at it.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Oh, we're gonna get to you.
Start looking at it it is 24for the audit no need to edit
Okay, auditor, you have 24 hoursor we're coming after you.
Clock starts, right, clockstarts now.
We're 48 to 72 for us to get in, so then we get into what's
called an audit compilation andthat's where you kick in, right?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I'm like okay, this is what makes me drink.
Yeah, so this is where,homeowners, you know you have to
have a little patience because,as soon as you know, the first
thing is someone coming out totheir home, taking all the
measurements and right away,like right, when they leave,
they'll call me and they go.
Okay, now what?
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Now we wait, and so the Lucas can do his job and
we'll figure it out from thereand find out what's going on.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, and we tell people.
I think we tell them to give usabout a week to get out there,
audit it, get all theinformation back then take a
look at it, and there's thingsafter that we'll talk about.
But so now we do what's calledan audit compilation, and that's
where you've gotten all thisinformation from the auditor.
I crunch it.
And yeah, you basically crunchit is what you do.
You have to go througheverything and if you see
anything that's questionable,like you may see, I've noticed
(38:40):
hey, the roof is questionable.
Hey, David, take a look at theroof.
And so the David is going tolook at pictures.
He might even just say I needto go out and take a second look
, and he'll go out and look atit.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
You'll see where he does that.
He'll get up on the roof andlift up tiles and take a more
stringent.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Look at it, he'll put his eye on it, and so that
could be something that candelay, or probably the biggest
one that I see.
That takes time and we havezero control over this Is now.
We need a utility input, so wehave to go back to the utility
and say, hey, this is going on,we need you to help us.
What do you want us to do?
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Give me an example of what we need.
I do that stuff too.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
What we need a utility input.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Okay, I'm gonna try not to bore everybody again.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Well, I'm getting to do detail, just in general.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Well, say there's an old service panel on the house
that doesn't offer, where theydon't manufacture the updated
parts that we need that havehigher capacities before they
interrupt ratings and stuffthings of that nature.
I have you guys talked aboutthat stuff before?
No, 22K rated parts.
(39:40):
No, not at all.
Not at all Not at all.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I like how he whispers out to the side yeah,
he does this.
Does anyone know about this?
So it's okay.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
No one's watching this.
No, it's okay.
Okay so.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Except for my mom, maybe.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Using higher inter-upgraded parts that have a
higher capacity before theylose their integrity and stuff
like that.
They hold up to a little bitmore heat current.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
To a more of an upgraded part, Upgraded part
Anyways.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
So some of the older panels they don't manufacture
parts like that for those oldpanels, so we get up and trying
to keep it less complicated.
We have to have upgraded partsto put in those panel in order
to pass, especially because ofnewer NEC codes and stuff like
that.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
And if we can't find them or they don't wanna make
them, then we have to change thepanel.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Then we have to change the panel Right so that
could be an example.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Or maybe, like we talked about with the wall and
access, if access doesn't make awhole lot of, if it's not there
, we don't think it's there wemight ask the utility Yep.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Are you okay with that?
Hey, this was already here likethis.
Can we grandfather this?
Because it was constructed likethis and somebody passed it
before.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
But we wanna make sure it's okay and they have to
give us our blessing.
They have to give us theblessing, yeah, otherwise we
have to move it.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
This is okay, like, hey, it was built this close to
the gas meter Originally wedidn't do anything, we just all
we did was go out and takepictures.
But listen, if you want us tomove it, we'll move it.
Or if you tell us it's okay tokeep there, then it goes through
a process.
It goes to somebody high enoughat APS or SRP or stuff like
(41:16):
that, where they say, hey, wecan work with this or no, it
needs to move.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And really they dictate it and we have to buy
about whatever they say, right,that's important, they're the
boss, not us saying it's them.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
And unfortunately sometimes that can take a little
bit.
We put an input request in.
It could take a week, it couldtake two weeks.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
We gotta change the service panel out for an old one
, for a new one.
I'm the one that does that too.
Anyways, it takes it's five dayprocess for them to respond
initially.
So, anyhow, sometimes they'rebetter, sometimes they're not so
good.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
It just depends, right, how busy they are with
time of year.
It is Just like anything else,just like even with us.
I mean, things change, thingshappen, but it takes time.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
It takes time.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I'm gonna get a job there and see if I can speed it
up.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
All right guys, let's get this five days down to two
and they give us all sorts ofinformation that tells us what
we have to do at install youknow, whether new PowerFee wires
need to come in, whether theservice needs to move, whether
the riser needs to be changedout all kinds of things that
tell us.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
My favorite is always when the transformer or the box
or whatever you call it, is inmy neighbor's yard or it's
running through my neighbors andwe have to get access to that
and that means we might have totrench in their yard or do
something in their yard.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
And now we have to get permission from the
neighbors and the utility has tocome out and take a look at it,
and they have to look ateasements and stuff like that.
Where's the transformer at?
What's the path of leaseresistance for Right.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I hope you have a good relationship with your
neighbor.
Because they will now control,they can say, no, we're done,
there's not a whole lot we cando about it.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Imagine that conversation like talk to a
homeowner who doesn't have solar, like why don't you have solar?
My neighbor said no, all right.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I mean, that happened , yeah.
I can think of times where wehad to go across the street to
do stuff and we had to trenchunderneath the street.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah, concrete work and pavement work.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
It can get crazy.
So I'm not trying to scarepeople, but I'm just saying
there are scenarios where wehave to really get a lot of
input and a lot of informationabout people, and that's really
what you're and your team's jobis is to gather that information
.
And all the information that youhave, and then you put it all
together and then you startlooking at our experts going hey
guys, this is what we have, andwe literally meet once a week
(43:27):
in a meeting and we talk aboutthis stuff and you come in all
frustrated and talk through it.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Well, it's just well, I guess.
There's a lot that goes into it.
Yeah, yeah.
And what's frustratingsometimes is not everybody
understands, yeah, and I have tobe the one that goes in and
says, hey, we can't do that.
They think it's just as easy.
Well, why don't you just dothat?
I'm like.
Well, because of this.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
And that's the problem with salespeople and us
being salespeople is we don'thave that knowledge or that
understanding.
So maybe sometimes we're not asfair to you as we should be,
but that's just honestly, I'mjust saying it.
It's our ignorance, right, wejust want to move forward.
But you're like I said aboutDave and everybody else.
You're helping to keep ushonest and say, hey, no, we got
to do it right for the customer,we got to do it right by the
rules and this and that, and sowe just can't do it that way.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
We just can't cut corners it just it ends up being
a bad.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, and not every home is the same.
You know, you can have thosecommunities where every home
looks the same because they'reall built the same, but then we
go out to the home and find outoh, this is a different issue
compared to your neighbor whogot sold with us, and compared
to the person across the streetwho got sold with us.
All three of you guys weredifferent.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
And that's where you guys, I know you try to explain
to customers.
You know, this is what trulysets us apart is you know we do
all this other stuff?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
What I really want to do is give the customers your
phone number, but they won't letme.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
I would love to talk.
We flash on the screen.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, we're going to flash on the screen.
I'm going to talk to each andevery one of them.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Go ahead and comment down in the comment section.
I'll be honest.
Lucas will answer.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Sometimes you guys tell us stuff and then I think
we have project managers even,and sometimes they'd maybe even
struggle with it, but they havea lot more experience than we do
.
But we say you explain that tothe customer because honestly I
don't know what to say.
Yeah, it no good, it won't work, because that's all I know.
But that's where a guy like you.
So it's important to showpeople you know the site auto
process that we have and theguys and the girls behind it
(45:14):
that really have to do a ton ofwork in that period of time just
to make sure your system'sgoing to work and get it to work
.
So it's.
I hear all the time from othercompanies or other customers
that, oh, you know, theypromised me they're going to get
this installed in 10 days or 15days and I'm just going to go.
Yeah, I don't think so, and ifthey do, I'd be really worried.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
I really want to see it, because I'm going to come
out there with a lawn chair anda paint product and I'm just
going to sit there and watch.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Oh, come on.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I want to see this.
The time frame is a time frame.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
There's not a whole lot we can do about it.
If you're installing a simpleone that just goes through it,
it's real easy, we're done andwe could probably move through
it in 45 days.
It's very possible.
But that's an, you know, that'sa clean job and they're not.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes
that a lot of people don't, youknow, are Unaware of, and we
kind of make it that way sohomeowners don't have to worry
about it.
You know there are issues thatcome up but we don't necessarily
have to, you know make it.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
We can fix this.
It's not as easy as just slapand solar.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah, it's just the audit is so important.
It's such a big part of thisprocess.
Once you've gone, you know,once you've signed on the dotted
line, yeah, this is a huge part.
This is the next huge hurdleyou have to get through.
And once you get through thisand it's all clean and then we
get to the design pros and we'regonna keep.
We're gonna be doing more andmore podcasts.
We're talking about the designprocess, we're gonna talk about
all the things that go on afterthat up to the install, which is
(46:33):
why we're gonna look to bring aproject manager on here soon,
and probably in the next coupleepisodes, and kind of talk About
how they now have to take thatinformation and how they have to
orchestrate this whole thing tomake it work.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
It's a it's a process , right yeah, it's an absolute
process.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I've had so many customers ask me you know, can
we do this, can we do that?
And I don't know.
The audits gonna decide what wecan and can't do.
So right, you know, and afterthat, who knows?
Right, we'll figure it outlater.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
And we're not trying to make it sound hard to know.
No, this is just the reality.
This is why you want a companythat knows what they're doing
yeah, on the back end to takecare of you, not just some
flabby night guy that's justtrying to sell you something.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
I don't yeah, I would rather know Other than solar,
just anything in life.
I'd rather have someone tell meI don't know, but we're gonna
find out, versus someone just goyeah, we could do that, and
then it be disappointed and letdown later.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yeah, typical sales guy.
We can do that?
Yeah, sure, we do anything.
I always answer that yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
I know I'm a pain in the butt sometimes, but like I
got to tell everybody the goodstuff and the bad stuff and we
have to figure out how to makeit work, I mean, and that's.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
No surprises.
Yep right, that's the key,that's the goal.
We do not want surprises at theend.
We want this all up front,taking care of.
So when we get to the end,you're happy, we're happy or no
surprises.
Because surprises are thekiller of solar.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
I really want the killer of anything.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, I mean we could go up there and just install
panels However we want, do wewant, but then the inspection
comes out and they go takeeverything down.
This is all wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I can't tell you how many times I hear that story
where, yeah, a couple thingsthat you know.
Oh, it's the end of the year,so I really want to get this up
there because of the tax creditin this or that yeah, this solar
company comes and we're justexperiencing this month.
Right, oh, I'm gonna go withthis company because they say
they can get up there.
Yeah, they probably can.
They could probably put astanchion in the panels up there
, not even permit it.
Yeah, get it all up there andthen just do this and pray.
(48:16):
It won't be turned on by theend of the year.
It'll be turned on five monthslater, eight months later,
because they do it backwards,right and we're just not gonna,
we're not gonna do that.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Say they put somebody throw solar on top of the root
of a bad roof and then a yearlater they have to tear it all
down.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, yeah, new roof and we've talked about the high
cost of that.
I mean, it's a per panel costand it's outrageous.
Yeah, you don't want to be inthat scenario.
So we got to do thing rightfrom the get, from the get go,
and that's why we have guys likeLucas.
That is, he's got a crucialpart of this process.
It's crucial part of thisprocess.
So we appreciate, Thank,everything you do, even though
sometimes in meetings it doesn'tsound like we appreciate it and
we get frustrated.
(48:51):
I know, I know that I'm a guythat does that sometimes true
story.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
But the reality is we're glad that there's guys
like you there because it helpsus this yeah, there's just a lot
that goes along, and I think so, thanks, there's just a lot of
stuff that goes into it.
People don't realize.
Anyways, I got to capture allthat stuff and and make sure
that everybody's aware ofeverything anyways.
So, yeah, anyhow it's important.
Sometimes I got to go in themeeting and say your baby's ugly
(49:15):
.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
And he does that.
Yeah, and I don't appreciateyou calling my baby yet.
No, not yours, you thoughtBen's, I guess my mind brought
an actual baby in the meeting.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
It's a little silly, kids ugly yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
So I mean that that's the side audit, that's, that's
the process that we go throughand it's, it's, you know, it's,
there's a lot to it and it takesa little bit of time.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
But we try to make it quick and painless.
But there's a lot of stuff thatwe got to get right.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Thanks for coming and joining us.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
We hope I gave you guys some useful information.
Maybe it's a little bit easierfor you guys to learn stuff
every day.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
No, I think it's been great.
I mean, I've been learning alot in these podcasts.
This is this is episode seven,I think.
Right, seven episodes, yeah, so, and we've learned a lot
through these seven episodes andbringing guys like you and
stuff I never thought I'd getyou in here, really.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
No, I was.
I came to you no.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Not not requested to be on here All right so.
Ben, what are we doing next?
I don't know what are we doingnext.
We had like a list yoursuggestion.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
We had a whole list of told me you wanted to do
something and I said you knowwhat?
We're gonna take one episodebreak, oh, no process, and we're
gonna do and we're gonna do onesolar 101, right?
Speaker 1 (50:21):
No, just what is solar and how does it work?
And we haven't touched that.
We've done all these tinylittle things, but we haven't
talked about big picture and weused to do solar 101 seminars.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, right, so we're gonna basically do a solar 101
seminar on the podcast.
Yeah, so that's what we'regonna do next time, so stay
tuned for that one.
That'll be pretty good.
That'll just be me and Ben.
Yeah, no guest.
No guest knows, maybe slides,but no, guest no slides today.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
That was really good right?
Yeah, it's like today, Don'tneed them.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
So me and Ben will come back at you and we'll do
solar 101 next Anything good,don't forget to like and
subscribe, and that's right, soall the good stuff like us,
subscribe, you can go to.
You can listen to us on Spotify,on iTunes, on I heart all the
little places for audio.
We're on YouTube, subscribe andlike to that channel.
Appreciate all support We'vebeen getting.
(51:03):
This is really starting to growand and we're gonna continue to
do this we hope to get anotherCouple done this year, as we're
getting toward the end of theyear and getting into
Thanksgiving and stuff.
So we appreciate support,appreciate you watching and we
will see you again soon.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Thank you.
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