How did Sydney, London, and Barcelona pull off Olympic-sized events that delivered enduring, generational change?
In 2032, southeast Queensland - a region with the city of Brisbane at its heart - will host the summer Olympics and Paralympics. The Games create extraordinary opportunities for communities, economies, and cultures to design legacies for future generations.
The most important discussions in the city and the region around design are only just beginning - and this episode is one of them.
Urbanist, city-shaper, and Hassell Principal Caroline Stalker explores the opportunities for Brisbane and Southeast Queensland - beyond 2032 - with Hassell Fellow Ken Maher AO and Emeritus Professor of Architecture and Urbanism, Helen Lochhead in this first episode in the fifth season of Hassell Talks.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(light upbeat music)
- From global design practise Hassell,
this is Hassell Talks, a podcast series
looking at a changing and complex world
and the opportunities for design
to create a better place for everyone.
It's a series that isunashamedly optimistic
(00:20):
about creating a beautiful,
inclusive and resilient future.
I'm Caroline Stalker.
I'm an architect and urbanist
and a principal at Hassell,
and I'm here on Jagera andTurrbal country in Brisbane,
and I pay my respects toelders past and present.
(00:42):
In 2032, Southeast Queensland,
a region with the cityof Brisbane at its heart,
will host the Summer Olympics.
This is an area that'shome to 3.8 million people,
covering approximately35,000 square kilometres.
On a good day, it wouldtake you three hours
to drive from one end to the other.
(01:03):
For Brisbane and the region,
the Olympics are anextraordinary opportunity
for our community, oureconomy and our culture,
and this is reflected in apalpable level of excitement
in the media and in discussions
we're all having around town.
At the same time, we'rereally only just beginning
the important discussions in the city
(01:25):
and the region around design,
discussions like what will bethe legacy of the Olympics?
How will it deliver benefitsto all, not just the few?
The government wants it todeliver economic benefits,
social benefits, environmental benefits,
indigenous culture celebrated and promoted
and greater engagement insport for all Queenslanders.
(01:49):
It's interesting to me
and it's the basis of thisconversation, I guess,
that the broader conversationin the city to date
has not included muchfocus on public realm,
which we believe is essential
in the successful deliveryof the Olympic Games
and in sharing the economic,social, environmental,
(02:09):
and cultural benefits we all want to see.
As a Brisbanite
with a great deal ofaffection for the place,
I want to explore whatopportunities lie ahead
for our public city.
What could the next eraof public spaces deliver?
And how will these becatalysed by the Olympics?
What kind of city can we make?
(02:31):
To really understandthe role of public realm
in ensuring a successful games and city,
I've invited some friends and colleagues
who have seen firsthand
the changes brought aboutby major events in cities,
particularly in Sydney Olympics in 2000,
and how that change affectedpeople throughout the city.
(02:52):
I'm very pleased to introduce architect,
landscape architect, urbandesigner and Hassell fellow,
Ken Maher AO, who has shaped the physical
and cultural landscapeof Sydney and beyond
for over four decades.
And Helen Lochhead, EmeritusProfessor of Architecture
and Urbanism at Universityof New South Wales.
(03:14):
Welcome, Ken and Helen.
Helen, thinking back to the time
leading up to the Olympics in Sydney,
when you were involved in thework of delivering the games,
where did the urban realmfall in those discussions?
Was there a vision?
- Yes, yes, there was astrong desire for a vision.
I was working for the Cityof Sydney at the time,
(03:35):
and the lord mayor then was Frank Sartor
who wanted people in the city.
And his pitch, I guess, wasfor Sydney to be a living city,
a place to live and work and play.
That was what he ran with to be elected,
and so he was very keento use the opportunity
to capture people's imagination
and get people in the city 24/7.
(03:58):
That was in 1994.
I developed a seriesof speculative projects
for the city's streets, squares and parks.
And the real opportunity
was that we commissioned young
and emerging designers and artists
and we partnered them withmore established architects
and landscape architectsto develop concepts.
One, we wanted that expertise
and deep understanding of the city,
(04:20):
but we also wanted freshand out-of-the-box thinking.
Designers and artists and people
who are not always engagedin work in the public domain
was really the spark thatactually took these ideas
from being predictable and conservative
to sometimes exploratory and exciting.
(04:42):
So with that, we developeda series of city talks
to talk about these projects.
We developed a publication and exhibition.
And from that initiative,
we attracted a lot of attention.
And so we were able to getthe commitment from Council
to fund many of theseprojects through the sale
of major public parkingstations and utilities.
But it was also through that commitment
(05:03):
that Council was able to attract state
and later some federal government funding
to actually take it fromthe priority one projects
to the priority two and priority three.
So that whole portfolio
of hundreds of millionsof dollars of projects
were able to be fulfilledover a period of years,
leading up to and following the Olympics.
(05:24):
That vision still rings true.
I think it really is a much more livable,
green, inclusive place.
And the city's been transformed, I think,
over the past 20 years.
Don't you think, Ken?
- Absolutely, I thinkthat planting of seeds,
if you like, around thevalue of the public spaces
that happened prior to the Olympics,
has borne incredible fruits, so to speak,
(05:47):
because it has continuedand it's got more so.
And again, thepedestrianisation of the city,
the shift from cars topeople has continued.
The city got Jan Gehl,the Danish urbanist,
to help think through
or give confidence perhapsto the politicians ,
(06:12):
and that transformation, wenow have our major street.
George Street is a pedestrianand light rail street,
and that was inconceivable
even 10 years ago.
So it's been an extraordinary legacy.
(06:32):
But Caroline, I also think
that understandably,when the early planning
is taking place for the Olympics,
there will be a focus on the venues
and there will be a focuson the venues sometimes
at the expense of or not combined
(06:53):
with thinking about thebroader precinctual issues.
But I do think, as Helen has touched on,
that might change as getcloser and closer to the time.
I also think that it's aboutthe layers of government
and that it's the local government
where the focus can be onthe local places and spaces,
(07:18):
and they're the ones thatare really important.
I think it might be a combination
of local and state government
that start to focus on the precincts
around some of the venues.
I know the venues are quite dispersed.
And then there's another challenge
around what are the connectionsbetween those venues?
(07:38):
And that sometimes comes throughthe transport authorities.
And all these groups, Ithink in our time now,
have great benefits,
and it wasn't the case backwith the Sydney Olympics,
but each of these authoritiesare more and more aware
of the value of publicplaces, even design,
(08:00):
landscape architecture, et cetera.
- Well, I think I've found these stories
about the professionalcommunity getting together
to build a vision very relevant
because I think you're right, Ken.
Things are happening here
through different layers of government
and there is the legacyplan being built now,
(08:23):
but we also need to put that all together
within the physical glueof a vision for our city
and a vision for our public spaces.
And I think you've told the story
very, very nicely and clearly
about how having that vision at the start
and gathering people andmomentum around that vision
(08:46):
and coalescing around that vision,
can really drive changeover a long period of time,
you know, because it'sbuilt on shared values.
So I've found that a very,very relevant example
to what we're dealing withcurrently in Brisbane,
as we start to look, you know,
(09:08):
to the next 10 years and 10 years beyond.
I think it's because we'repart of a new norm games,
which means we're trying toreuse a lot of infrastructure,
where really this isn't aboutsplashing around huge cash
for a comprehensiveurban renewal programme.
We're very conscious ofnot wanting, you know,
(09:31):
our grandchildren to pay this off
financially and environmentally.
And so something backto both of you really,
Helen and Ken, from your perspective,
looking back at the games
and the projects you've been involved in,
why is an investment inpublic spaces so important?
What's the long-term value of that?
(09:52):
- Look, I think there areother Olympics you can point
to directly where thelessons are already laid out.
And the first one I would draw
everyone's attention to is Barcelona.
It used the Olympics tobuild a much more inclusive
and connected metropolitan city.
But they developed an interior ring road
which connected satellite sites
all around the greater metropolitan area.
(10:13):
But also every one of those sites
were extraordinary parks or plazas,
which became a legacyfor those communities.
So as Ken pointed out, the connectivity
or the metro public transport rings true.
And also at the end of the day,
Barcelona made places foran array of communities
far from the centre aswell as in the centre.
They were marginal and theunderserved in the periphery.
(10:34):
So I think that it is just good politics
and it's a very good investmentin social infrastructure
as well as hard infrastructure.
I think London is anotherexcellent example.
It had this ripple effectof the East London.
East London, as many would know,
was really the most underservedof communities in London,
most environmentallypolluted, less services,
(10:55):
more crime or social housing.
And I remember going therejust prior to the Olympics,
and there were so many buildings
around the periphery in Hackney
broken windows bordered up.
It was just not a placeyou really felt comfortable
walking around or wanted to be.
The Olympics flipped that.
The River Lea going throughthe site was cleaned up,
and access along the river
(11:16):
into the Olympic site was provided.
That part of London is just dynamic now,
and it was the Olympicsthat used the opportunity
to actually not just create anew shiny, glossy new object,
which can look good oninternational television,
but to actually cause systemic change
in the whole of theSoutheast London region.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- So I think you don'tneed to convince anyone,
(11:38):
you just need to look atthese real life examples
to see where the benefits lie.
- It's a slightlydifferent model, isn't it,
in Brisbane where things are dispersed?
We don't have a big critical mass site.
So I think there's thingsthat we can certainly learn
from those bigger urbanregeneration models,
but then we have to think about them
as they apply to a more dispersed model.
(12:01):
And I guess I wanted tocome back and ask Ken,
in terms of getting the best outcome
for the people of Brisbane,
do you think having a view
or a vision about thewider region is important
as part of the thinkingabout this Olympics?
- Look, Caroline, I think thatthat's absolutely essential.
(12:24):
And if we look at it in reflecting again
on the Sydney experience, whichwas a different experience,
but the opportunity in Sydney
was to develop the Olympic site
as a future centre and suburb effectively,
that would have increased density.
(12:44):
And it was just at the timewhen densification in Sydney
was really just taking off.
And so when I worked onwith four other colleagues,
a master plan for that site,we looked at two key benefits.
One was to design a placethat was a future city,
(13:07):
if you like, not just a series of venues.
And secondly, there was anopportunity to bring a whole
new huge public park, Bicentennial Park
on rather degraded land.
And so they were twolegacies that were possible
(13:27):
with that particular agenda,the more centralised agenda.
We did struggle during thetime leading up to the Olympics
to keep everybody's mindfocused on the long term future
because there tends tobe a focus on the event.
And it's probably taken20 years since that time,
(13:49):
for now that vision of anintegrated transport based centre
of quite high density to be realised.
So again, the lesson isback to the long term.
So to answer your other question,
in Southeast Queensland and Brisbane,
(14:12):
that big picture thinking is really about,
what's the complimentaryopportunity in each location
to help build the future of the city?
And in some cases it might be open space
and park and public realmas a dominant opportunity..
(14:35):
In other cases it might be urbanisation
and urban redevelopmentaround transport nodes.
And in other cases itmight be concentrating
on how to ensure that the linkages
are things that will serve thefuture as well as the events.
- And we've got a wonderful alliance
(14:56):
between all of the regional councils
and Brisbane City Council here too.
All the councils of Southeast Queensland
have joined with Brisbane City Council
in putting this projectforward in the first place.
And we've got the City Deal.
You know, there's a greatspirit of collaboration
that's emerging already,
which is very promising, I think, Ken.
(15:19):
And just finally then to Helen,
so thinking about the Brisbane Olympics,
if you were working on these Olympics
and with the experiencethat you've had in the past,
what would be the questionsthat you'd be asking?
- Well, I mean I thinkit's really important
to have a vision.
My question would notbe, what is your vision
(15:40):
for the Brisbane Olympics?
Rather, my question is what is your vision
for Brisbane in 2050
or moreso the greater metropolitan region?
What kind of mega-regiondo you want Brisbane to be
and how is this opportunitygoing to be leveraged
to achieve that long-term goal?
To Ken's point, that'swhat you want to focus on.
You have to have your eye on two goals.
(16:02):
One, there is a need to deliveron a very tight timeframe
within very strict financialand physical constraints,
but also the long-term possibilities,
the intergenerational possibilities.
You have to have bothof these in clear view,
because some of these bigvisions can be achieved
in small bites.
And as I mentioned in Sydney,
(16:22):
what started in the Olympicsunder one lord mayor
has continued for 20 years
under a completely different regime
and a different lord mayor.
So if it's a good idea,
and I've seen it happen in other projects,
for example, a greenaccessible waterfront,
that idea is a no-brainer.
Everyone agrees it's a goodidea to have public access
along the foreshore.
- And I think that's absolutely right.
(16:44):
And in fact, we did seethat happen in Brisbane
when in the last generationof making public spaces
around the river, with thecity did exactly coalesce
around that idea of being a river city.
That was a big idea that cohered
a whole lot of public space development
(17:04):
that happened around the edge of the river
over that 30-year period.
So that was exactly it.
A big shared value, big shared idea.
And I guess the really,really interesting one is now,
what is the big shared idea
for the next generation ofBrisbane and the region?
And Ken, I'm very interestedto hear your views
(17:27):
on what might have thebiggest impact on our region.
I know that you knowBrisbane and the region
and that you're aware ofsome of our challenges
around climate change andheat and sustainability.
I was interested in your views of that.
- Look, I'd like to really
(17:48):
focus on a couple of things, I think.
The amenity and comfort of the city,
and that seems to me to add tothe agenda of the river city,
to the landscape city,
the city of shade and beautiful landscape.
And secondly, I think the equitable city
(18:11):
that I always feel with Brisbane,
such an open-minded city,
and southeast Queensland as a region
is a place of relaxation and engagement.
But it's really critical
that if we're going tohave healthy communities
and safe communities into the future,
(18:32):
they need to be equitable communities.
So how can we ensure thata focus is on equity?
And thirdly, I guess it would be,
you've touched on it already,
but the First Nations community.
So a city that understands thecountry, cares for country,
and engages our First Nations community.
(18:53):
And the voice will be agood start to this perhaps.
Indeed, that's a lovely concluding note.
Thank you so much, Ken.
And I think we've reallydemonstrated from this chat
that even though we're notSydney, we can learn from Sydney.
And we've really heard abouthow the Olympics in Sydney
was an opportunity to shapepublic spaces of the city.
(19:16):
And we've heard about the enormous changes
that public spaces in theurban realm can have on people,
their behaviours, their use ofthe city and its facilities.
In this critical designphase of the Olympics,
we need to think hardabout the big challenges
of our region.
Brisbane and Australia isagain at a moment of change.
(19:38):
We need to make sure we can obtain
the maximum publicbenefit for our community
out of the Olympics spend.
We need to consider the design
and delivery of the Olympics build
in the context of a veryclear-sighted vision
for Brisbane's public city and the spaces
that will bind our communityin the Brisbane to come.
(19:58):
It just reminds us that our public spaces
are too important to be left to chance.
Thank you so much to our guests,
Ken Maher and Helen Lochhead.
And thank you to our listeners.
We know you're as passionateabout the role design plays
in creating a beautiful, resilient
and inclusive future as we are.
I'm Caroline Stalker.
(20:19):
You've been listening to anepisode of Hassell Talks.
This episode was produced
by Prue Vincent and MichelleBailey, who I also thank.
(gentle light music)
(light upbeat music)
- From global design practise Hassell,
this is Hassell Talks, a podcast series
looking at a changing and complex world
and the opportunities for design
to create a better place for everyone.
It's a series that isunashamedly optimistic
(00:20):
about creating a beautiful,
inclusive and resilient future.
I'm Caroline Stalker.
I'm an architect and urbanist
and a principal at Hassell,
and I'm here on Jagera andTurrbal country in Brisbane,
and I pay my respects toelders past and present.
(00:42):
In 2032, Southeast Queensland,
a region with the cityof Brisbane at its heart,
will host the Summer Olympics.
This is an area that'shome to 3.8 million people,
covering approximately35,000 square kilometres.
On a good day, it wouldtake you three hours
to drive from one end to the other.
(01:03):
For Brisbane and the region,
the Olympics are anextraordinary opportunity
for our community, oureconomy and our culture,
and this is reflected in apalpable level of excitement
in the media and in discussions
we're all having around town.
At the same time, we'rereally only just beginning
the important discussions in the city
(01:25):
and the region around design,
discussions like what will bethe legacy of the Olympics?
How will it deliver benefitsto all, not just the few?
The government wants it todeliver economic benefits,
social benefits, environmental benefits,
indigenous culture celebrated and promoted
and greater engagement insport for all Queenslanders.
(01:49):
It's interesting to me
and it's the basis of thisconversation, I guess,
that the broader conversationin the city to date
has not included muchfocus on public realm,
which we believe is essential
in the successful deliveryof the Olympic Games
and in sharing the economic,social, environmental,
(02:09):
and cultural benefits we all want to see.
As a Brisbanite
with a great deal ofaffection for the place,
I want to explore whatopportunities lie ahead
for our public city.
What could the next eraof public spaces deliver?
And how will these becatalysed by the Olympics?
What kind of city can we make?
(02:31):
To really understandthe role of public realm
in ensuring a successful games and city,
I've invited some friends and colleagues
who have seen firsthand
the changes brought aboutby major events in cities,
particularly in Sydney Olympics in 2000,
and how that change affectedpeople throughout the city.
(02:52):
I'm very pleased to introduce architect,
landscape architect, urbandesigner and Hassell fellow,
Ken Maher AO, who has shaped the physical
and cultural landscapeof Sydney and beyond
for over four decades.
And Helen Lochhead, EmeritusProfessor of Architecture
and Urbanism at Universityof New South Wales.
(03:14):
Welcome, Ken and Helen.
Helen, thinking back to the time
leading up to the Olympics in Sydney,
when you were involved in thework of delivering the games,
where did the urban realmfall in those discussions?
Was there a vision?
- Yes, yes, there was astrong desire for a vision.
I was working for the Cityof Sydney at the time,
(03:35):
and the lord mayor then was Frank Sartor
who wanted people in the city.
And his pitch, I guess, wasfor Sydney to be a living city,
a place to live and work and play.
That was what he ran with to be elected,
and so he was very keento use the opportunity
to capture people's imagination
and get people in the city 24/7.
(03:58):
That was in 1994.
I developed a seriesof speculative projects
for the city's streets, squares and parks.
And the real opportunity
was that we commissioned young
and emerging designers and artists
and we partnered them withmore established architects
and landscape architectsto develop concepts.
One, we wanted that expertise
and deep understanding of the city,
(04:20):
but we also wanted freshand out-of-the-box thinking.
Designers and artists and people
who are not always engagedin work in the public domain
was really the spark thatactually took these ideas
from being predictable and conservative
to sometimes exploratory and exciting.
(04:42):
So with that, we developeda series of city talks
to talk about these projects.
We developed a publication and exhibition.
And from that initiative,
we attracted a lot of attention.
And so we were able to getthe commitment from Council
to fund many of theseprojects through the sale
of major public parkingstations and utilities.
But it was also through that commitment
(05:03):
that Council was able to attract state
and later some federal government funding
to actually take it fromthe priority one projects
to the priority two and priority three.
So that whole portfolio
of hundreds of millionsof dollars of projects
were able to be fulfilledover a period of years,
leading up to and following the Olympics.
(05:24):
That vision still rings true.
I think it really is a much more livable,
green, inclusive place.
And the city's been transformed, I think,
over the past 20 years.
Don't you think, Ken?
- Absolutely, I thinkthat planting of seeds,
if you like, around thevalue of the public spaces
that happened prior to the Olympics,
has borne incredible fruits, so to speak,
(05:47):
because it has continuedand it's got more so.
And again, thepedestrianisation of the city,
the shift from cars topeople has continued.
The city got Jan Gehl,the Danish urbanist,
to help think through
or give confidence perhapsto the politicians ,
(06:12):
and that transformation, wenow have our major street.
George Street is a pedestrianand light rail street,
and that was inconceivable
even 10 years ago.
So it's been an extraordinary legacy.
(06:32):
But Caroline, I also think
that understandably,when the early planning
is taking place for the Olympics,
there will be a focus on the venues
and there will be a focuson the venues sometimes
at the expense of or not combined
(06:53):
with thinking about thebroader precinctual issues.
But I do think, as Helen has touched on,
that might change as getcloser and closer to the time.
I also think that it's aboutthe layers of government
and that it's the local government
where the focus can be onthe local places and spaces,
(07:18):
and they're the ones thatare really important.
I think it might be a combination
of local and state government
that start to focus on the precincts
around some of the venues.
I know the venues are quite dispersed.
And then there's another challenge
around what are the connectionsbetween those venues?
(07:38):
And that sometimes comes throughthe transport authorities.
And all these groups, Ithink in our time now,
have great benefits,
and it wasn't the case backwith the Sydney Olympics,
but each of these authoritiesare more and more aware
of the value of publicplaces, even design,
(08:00):
landscape architecture, et cetera.
- Well, I think I've found these stories
about the professionalcommunity getting together
to build a vision very relevant
because I think you're right, Ken.
Things are happening here
through different layers of government
and there is the legacyplan being built now,
(08:23):
but we also need to put that all together
within the physical glueof a vision for our city
and a vision for our public spaces.
And I think you've told the story
very, very nicely and clearly
about how having that vision at the start
and gathering people andmomentum around that vision
(08:46):
and coalescing around that vision,
can really drive changeover a long period of time,
you know, because it'sbuilt on shared values.
So I've found that a very,very relevant example
to what we're dealing withcurrently in Brisbane,
as we start to look, you know,
(09:08):
to the next 10 years and 10 years beyond.
I think it's because we'repart of a new norm games,
which means we're trying toreuse a lot of infrastructure,
where really this isn't aboutsplashing around huge cash
for a comprehensiveurban renewal programme.
We're very conscious ofnot wanting, you know,
(09:31):
our grandchildren to pay this off
financially and environmentally.
And so something backto both of you really,
Helen and Ken, from your perspective,
looking back at the games
and the projects you've been involved in,
why is an investment inpublic spaces so important?
What's the long-term value of that?
(09:52):
- Look, I think there areother Olympics you can point
to directly where thelessons are already laid out.
And the first one I would draw
everyone's attention to is Barcelona.
It used the Olympics tobuild a much more inclusive
and connected metropolitan city.
But they developed an interior ring road
which connected satellite sites
all around the greater metropolitan area.
(10:13):
But also every one of those sites
were extraordinary parks or plazas,
which became a legacyfor those communities.
So as Ken pointed out, the connectivity
or the metro public transport rings true.
And also at the end of the day,
Barcelona made places foran array of communities
far from the centre aswell as in the centre.
They were marginal and theunderserved in the periphery.
(10:34):
So I think that it is just good politics
and it's a very good investmentin social infrastructure
as well as hard infrastructure.
I think London is anotherexcellent example.
It had this ripple effectof the East London.
East London, as many would know,
was really the most underservedof communities in London,
most environmentallypolluted, less services,
(10:55):
more crime or social housing.
And I remember going therejust prior to the Olympics,
and there were so many buildings
around the periphery in Hackney
broken windows bordered up.
It was just not a placeyou really felt comfortable
walking around or wanted to be.
The Olympics flipped that.
The River Lea going throughthe site was cleaned up,
and access along the river
(11:16):
into the Olympic site was provided.
That part of London is just dynamic now,
and it was the Olympicsthat used the opportunity
to actually not just create anew shiny, glossy new object,
which can look good oninternational television,
but to actually cause systemic change
in the whole of theSoutheast London region.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- So I think you don'tneed to convince anyone,
(11:38):
you just need to look atthese real life examples
to see where the benefits lie.
- It's a slightlydifferent model, isn't it,
in Brisbane where things are dispersed?
We don't have a big critical mass site.
So I think there's thingsthat we can certainly learn
from those bigger urbanregeneration models,
but then we have to think about them
as they apply to a more dispersed model.
(12:01):
And I guess I wanted tocome back and ask Ken,
in terms of getting the best outcome
for the people of Brisbane,
do you think having a view
or a vision about thewider region is important
as part of the thinkingabout this Olympics?
- Look, Caroline, I think thatthat's absolutely essential.
(12:24):
And if we look at it in reflecting again
on the Sydney experience, whichwas a different experience,
but the opportunity in Sydney
was to develop the Olympic site
as a future centre and suburb effectively,
that would have increased density.
(12:44):
And it was just at the timewhen densification in Sydney
was really just taking off.
And so when I worked onwith four other colleagues,
a master plan for that site,we looked at two key benefits.
One was to design a placethat was a future city,
(13:07):
if you like, not just a series of venues.
And secondly, there was anopportunity to bring a whole
new huge public park, Bicentennial Park
on rather degraded land.
And so they were twolegacies that were possible
(13:27):
with that particular agenda,the more centralised agenda.
We did struggle during thetime leading up to the Olympics
to keep everybody's mindfocused on the long term future
because there tends tobe a focus on the event.
And it's probably taken20 years since that time,
(13:49):
for now that vision of anintegrated transport based centre
of quite high density to be realised.
So again, the lesson isback to the long term.
So to answer your other question,
in Southeast Queensland and Brisbane,
(14:12):
that big picture thinking is really about,
what's the complimentaryopportunity in each location
to help build the future of the city?
And in some cases it might be open space
and park and public realmas a dominant opportunity..
(14:35):
In other cases it might be urbanisation
and urban redevelopmentaround transport nodes.
And in other cases itmight be concentrating
on how to ensure that the linkages
are things that will serve thefuture as well as the events.
- And we've got a wonderful alliance
(14:56):
between all of the regional councils
and Brisbane City Council here too.
All the councils of Southeast Queensland
have joined with Brisbane City Council
in putting this projectforward in the first place.
And we've got the City Deal.
You know, there's a greatspirit of collaboration
that's emerging already,
which is very promising, I think, Ken.
(15:19):
And just finally then to Helen,
so thinking about the Brisbane Olympics,
if you were working on these Olympics
and with the experiencethat you've had in the past,
what would be the questionsthat you'd be asking?
- Well, I mean I thinkit's really important
to have a vision.
My question would notbe, what is your vision
(15:40):
for the Brisbane Olympics?
Rather, my question is what is your vision
for Brisbane in 2050
or moreso the greater metropolitan region?
What kind of mega-regiondo you want Brisbane to be
and how is this opportunitygoing to be leveraged
to achieve that long-term goal?
To Ken's point, that'swhat you want to focus on.
You have to have your eye on two goals.
(16:02):
One, there is a need to deliveron a very tight timeframe
within very strict financialand physical constraints,
but also the long-term possibilities,
the intergenerational possibilities.
You have to have bothof these in clear view,
because some of these bigvisions can be achieved
in small bites.
And as I mentioned in Sydney,
(16:22):
what started in the Olympicsunder one lord mayor
has continued for 20 years
under a completely different regime
and a different lord mayor.
So if it's a good idea,
and I've seen it happen in other projects,
for example, a greenaccessible waterfront,
that idea is a no-brainer.
Everyone agrees it's a goodidea to have public access
along the foreshore.
- And I think that's absolutely right.
(16:44):
And in fact, we did seethat happen in Brisbane
when in the last generationof making public spaces
around the river, with thecity did exactly coalesce
around that idea of being a river city.
That was a big idea that cohered
a whole lot of public space development
(17:04):
that happened around the edge of the river
over that 30-year period.
So that was exactly it.
A big shared value, big shared idea.
And I guess the really,really interesting one is now,
what is the big shared idea
for the next generation ofBrisbane and the region?
And Ken, I'm very interestedto hear your views
(17:27):
on what might have thebiggest impact on our region.
I know that you knowBrisbane and the region
and that you're aware ofsome of our challenges
around climate change andheat and sustainability.
I was interested in your views of that.
- Look, I'd like to really
(17:48):
focus on a couple of things, I think.
The amenity and comfort of the city,
and that seems to me to add tothe agenda of the river city,
to the landscape city,
the city of shade and beautiful landscape.
And secondly, I think the equitable city
(18:11):
that I always feel with Brisbane,
such an open-minded city,
and southeast Queensland as a region
is a place of relaxation and engagement.
But it's really critical
that if we're going tohave healthy communities
and safe communities into the future,
(18:32):
they need to be equitable communities.
So how can we ensure thata focus is on equity?
And thirdly, I guess it would be,
you've touched on it already,
but the First Nations community.
So a city that understands thecountry, cares for country,
and engages our First Nations community.
(18:53):
And the voice will be agood start to this perhaps.
Indeed, that's a lovely concluding note.
Thank you so much, Ken.
And I think we've reallydemonstrated from this chat
that even though we're notSydney, we can learn from Sydney.
And we've really heard abouthow the Olympics in Sydney
was an opportunity to shapepublic spaces of the city.
(19:16):
And we've heard about the enormous changes
that public spaces in theurban realm can have on people,
their behaviours, their use ofthe city and its facilities.
In this critical designphase of the Olympics,
we need to think hardabout the big challenges
of our region.
Brisbane and Australia isagain at a moment of change.
(19:38):
We need to make sure we can obtain
the maximum publicbenefit for our community
out of the Olympics spend.
We need to consider the design
and delivery of the Olympics build
in the context of a veryclear-sighted vision
for Brisbane's public city and the spaces
that will bind our communityin the Brisbane to come.
(19:58):
It just reminds us that our public spaces
are too important to be left to chance.
Thank you so much to our guests,
Ken Maher and Helen Lochhead.
And thank you to our listeners.
We know you're as passionateabout the role design plays
in creating a beautiful, resilient
and inclusive future as we are.
I'm Caroline Stalker.
(20:19):
You've been listening to anepisode of Hassell Talks.
This episode was produced
by Prue Vincent and MichelleBailey, who I also thank.
(gentle light music)
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