May 27, 2021 • 15 mins
At the heart of any co-working environment is the idea that it can do much more than provide a hotspot and a hot coffee.
The best ones ask: Can we build a great like-minded community?
In the COVID-19 context, the best co-working spaces then ask whether they can solve some of the challenges thrown up by the pandemic to design for safety and trust in a physical environment.
And right now? They’re asking how the design of their spaces helps people to connect – and reconnect. To go a step further and make these connections high value, while supporting wellness and resilience.
“You need a place where you can say 'Oh my gosh! That's so good!' You need that energy.”Industry trailblazer, CEO and Founder of The Great Room Jaelle Ang, calls it the quest for a ‘modern agora’.
“If we need to move at a fast pace, we need to be in a learning environment,” she observes. “And the office needs to allow you to do that.”
Host and Senior Design Strategist Pamela Jouwena joined Jaelle Ang at the Great Room, Raffles for a conversation exploring the evolution of coworking to meaningfully connect the virtual and physical experiences – and how it’s gone beyond simply providing flexibility to being places of resilience that people can trust, where they can create community and focus on holistic wellness. At a time when it’s needed most.
This episode of HassellTalks was produced by Prue Vincent and Slavica Habjanovic.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(crowd indistinctly chattering)
- I remember coming here
to the Great Room Centennialearly in 2020 pre-COVID.
Wondering in off the street you will say
this workspace feelsmore like a hotel lounge
than a co-working space.
The cafe and lounge were buzzing,
it was full of peoplesharing ideas and innovating.
(00:24):
The smell of coffee as soonas you arrive with the view
of the Singapore flyer and thewater is just so energising.
And then COVID-19 hit
and we all had to hit the pause button.
But then fast forward one year later,
I came here again for a workshop
(00:45):
with our client and itamazed me how the buzz
and energy felt the samedespite the additional measures
like the safe distancing and mask wearing.
And that moment really broughthome to me the strength
of the community and people'shunger to be together again.
My name is Pam Jouwena and I'm joining you
(01:06):
from a recording studio in aco-working space in Singapore.
And here with me today is Jaelle Ang,
owner and founder of the Great Room.
Thank you again, Jaelle for joining us.
- Oh, first Pam, it's such a pleasure
to be kind of doing this in person.
We take it for granted, butit feels so nice and so warm.
So thank you for this opportunity.
(01:28):
- Would you explain a little bit more
about the Great Room?
- You know, it takes me back
to the first time when allbright eye and slightly naive,
when we came with a briefand we were designing,
we wanted to change the world,
we wanted to solve problems
of how people feel so jaded going to work.
And we came to Hassel andthe brief at the time,
and what we were solving for was,
(01:52):
it was excitement.
We were solving for building.
Can we have a space thatbuilds a great community,
a like-minded community?
And I believe great designdraws a like-minded community.
And we were also solvingfor that casual collision
that excitement of wantingto be with other people.
And in the whole lastfive years of the journey,
(02:13):
the evolution of this journey,
I think at each stage we startsolving for different things.
When COVID struck, whenthe pandemic happened
we realised the bigand the important thing
to solve for was for safety.
It's speaking to the experts,putting in the protocols,
whether it's social distancing,capacity sanitization,
(02:35):
cleaning the spaces.
We wanted people to feel
that the space was safeenough for them to come back.
Then we realised the next evolution
or the next step up is solving for trust.
How can we build this trust?
Trust may not be a reality of the safety
but it's a perception.
(02:57):
We need to trust environment operator,
the space that you are in,
the teams that you work with.
As Singapore slowly starts opening up
and to some extent in differentways, different speeds,
Hong Kong and Bangkok.
The next thing we're very excited
to solve for its connection.
I think one of the biggestchallenge that we have
(03:18):
is people are lonely.
So as we open up and peopleare seeking this connection
or reconnection as they slowlycome back into the office,
we want a trustworthy environment,
we wanna collaborate safely,
but we also want to beconnected with the people,
whether new or old again.
And I think the role of that office
(03:40):
or the co-working space has changed
because of that and it has been changing.
So to me, the office nowneeds to be a real space
of high value interactions,of collaborations,
things that is so difficult to do in Zoom
because you can't jump up with excitement,
and be really excited,
and have that resonancewhen you hit a great idea.
(04:01):
It's more of a take turnsto talk kind of platform.
Whereas when you're in their room
you could stand up, you couldjump, you could high five,
you could all say, oh my gosh,
that's so good.- Yeah
- And you need that kind of energy
to do that wonderful, great collaboration.
Then the second role ofthe office, it's also,
it needs to be that modernagora, a space of learning,
(04:23):
a gathering of great ideas,
because things are changing even faster
pivoting even faster,
and if we need to move at this pace
then we all need to bein a learning environment
and be learning (indistinct)together with our peers to
to solve the next big problem.
So the office needs to beable to allow you to do that.
- I totally agree with that,
(04:44):
because coming here and I hope,
'cause people listening, maybecoming outside Singapore,
outside Asia,
and I think a lot ofthings can be also learned
from how the Great room has come up
with a great return and howpeople actually come back
to this vibrancy and collaborating again.
And actually today when we come in
(05:05):
you can see people actually next door
to this meeting room, having conversation,
having a live meeting, whichis completely different
from what we have withthe past Zoom fatigue
for the past almost a year now actually.
And now that we are back,
what do you see thechange of that spatial mix
(05:25):
in co-working spaces in the future?
What do you think the changes will be?
- Hmm, that's a great question
and I think in a waywe are also solving it
with the communities,
solving it with designers like yourself,
and also talking to our members.
I think for one, whenwe started we've always
(05:46):
felt it was a greatinvestment for ourselves
and for our members
to invest a lot more in the shared spaces,
the meeting rooms, the conservatory,
the pantry, the bar, the cafe,
all these spaces that is not just
bums on seats behind computers.
But when people comein you see them getting
into meeting rooms, or trainings,
(06:08):
or presentations much more.
So for our future locations
the next one that we'reworking on right now as well
we're investing more ingetting these spaces right.
I think there's also a shift in thinking,
we used to think inspace mix or a room mix,
(06:29):
and I'm trying to think in terms of
not just designing a spacebut designing an experience,
or an interaction, or a feeling.
And I think that could change the way
that we think about it.
- I think that's very relevant
to what we're doing today as well,
'cause' we're focusing moreand more about the experience,
(06:52):
the user journey,
what do we want them tofeel like when they come?
And I think going back to that idea
of that your members first approach.
I actually read this newsabout your hybrid membership,
how did it came about,
and was it because of this COVID learning,
or is it because more of whatyou've seen of the evolution
(07:15):
of what the members are asking for?
- I think we've alwaysseen ourselves as a partner
in growth, in productivity,
and in a company's journey,in our member's journey,
rather than just offeringa space that they occupy.
So if we are a partner in that journey,
(07:36):
then it's about providingall the different aspects
that allow them to kind offocus on their core business.
So the work environment thatwe realise it's firstly,
it can be decentralised, it can be remote,
it can be offline and online.
I think a lot more can be done
and a lot more that we can improve on.
(07:58):
But the fact is we've started to think
about how can we give thema more seamless journey
from when they're out ofthe physical Great Room
and when they're inthe physical Great Room
here in Singapore,
the various locations areHong Kong and Bangkok.
So that hybrid is really mirroring
the virtual environment and background,
(08:18):
and the kind of productivityinfrastructure that they need,
and what we have physically.
It sounds like a verybig statement to make,
and I think we're onlymaking kind of small steps
towards merging both worlds,
and even in the waythat we conduct things,
that's very important to us,
like the fireside chats,
and like all our thoughtleadership type of events,
(08:40):
we've just been really experimenting
going completely virtual,completely physical,
physical, virtual, likehow can we do that?
The interesting thing,
the learning that we've got
is digital is extremely exciting.
It allows us a very huge reach.
Something that'shappening in Singapore now
can reach Bangkok, Hong Kongand a very large community.
(09:03):
So that we find very exciting,
and the speakers that we can get
becomes pretty regional if not global.
However, what we've also learned
it's the constraints of digital.
We now realise it's so hardto get that chemistry vibe,
that laughter that youget in the physical world.
(09:25):
So we know we miss that
and we know that that's animportant component of feeling,
like this is the communitythat I wanna be in.
And it's a big component
in chasing away thatloneliness that you feel.
So we also want to maintain that
because it's more important than ever.
(light music)
- What do you think isfundamentally at odds now
(09:47):
between co-working todayand post a COVID-19 world,
especially after we maybe sixmonths down the road from now,
and we see that we can startgoing out again travel again?
- What is it odds?- Yeah.
- Oh, it's interesting question.
(10:08):
If you look at the macro contacts,
flexible working, co-working,
whatever that we call it,the flavour of the day,
it's really only atabout two, three percent
of total commercial real estate.
It's very low.
And pre-pandemic the prediction was
it was gonna be at 30% by 2030,
(10:30):
so it was gonna grow 10times in the next 10 years.
And with the pandemic,
with a lot of geopolitical uncertainty,
shorter business cycles,
so many things in flux andbusinesses need to make decisions
about their headcount, their real estate,
how they wanna work,where they wanna work.
(10:51):
It's pretty unfair to imagine
that they have to makedecisions for three years,
if not five years.
So they really want to bemaking decisions for six months,
for 12 months, or 18 months,much shorter business cycles.
In other words, everythingin the background
is actually accelerating this growth.
So it's not even gonna be 10 times,
it's gonna be much faster.
Now that we can workflexibly in a great space,
(11:15):
like would we go back toa traditional real estate?
Some would, but a lotmay not and wouldn't,
there are a lot of verytraditional companies
that used to think that I cannot do it
because it does not representmy identity or my brand,
or what will my employees think.
Overnight a lot of needs are debunked,
and their willingness to try,
and their willingness to be in this space
because the benefits faroutweigh the worries.
(11:37):
What we must be very cognizant is,
it's not enough just to be flexible.
People want so much morefrom their workspace
co-working space.
Flexible offices cannot justbe providing flexibility.
We need to be thinking
when I talked about we needto be thinking about trust,
about community, creating the connections
(11:58):
wellness that resiliencethat people would need now.
Like how can we be a partner
in creating all these things
to help companies win the war for talent.
Because ultimately it's about
how do I get the most out of this group
of wonderful people that I have?
- There's actually a very,very big opportunity,
a huge potential there,
(12:20):
and what is at odds?
It sounds that it's morehow do we attract back
these people coming out from their homes,
especially with all thefacts going out that,
nowadays people wanna worktwo, three days from home,
and be more flexible, beout and about everywhere.
- You totally hit the nail on the head.
Totally.
(12:40):
The last 60 days, the companiesthat have been talking to us
are all about that.
How do I, I want my people back at work,
I want them working in teams again.
How do I do that?
So I think they're trying different things
and we're working with them.
It's allowing some flexibility
but also kind of buildingthat trust in the environment,
(13:02):
for the physical environment,
for them to wanna come back to work
and a reason to come back to work.
- Mm.
- And sometimes it'sreally the small things
and the small experiences they miss.
You mentioned just now,like, when you come back
there is a certain energy and buzz
that is rather infectious.
There is the smell of coffee,
there's the water coolerchat that you have
(13:24):
with that familiar person
that you may not knowthe face or the name,
but you kind of like see them often,
and make that connection, andpeople are craving for that.
It's a little things thatkind of bring you back to.
- I totally agree with that.
And I think one last thing
to close up this veryvery nice conversation
and thank you again Jaelle for your time.
(13:46):
How do we up the game after this?
Like what's next?
Because I feel like we'vetried all the different things
and all the different approach
to entice people coming back out,
and what is next with people
becoming more flexible and fluid?
The mindset has changed.
They're more open now.
(14:07):
And is it digitalization?
- I don't think there's a silver bullet.
- Yeah.- But I think what's next
that is what makes ourwork interesting, Pam.
We are going to create the next,
and we are gonna co-create the next,
and it's also the users of the space.
And I think in the end it's a flywheel.
I think we have to trust
the natural human primitive instinct
(14:28):
to want to connect with other people
as soon as there's an opportunity.
Because we see that whenHong Kong first open
people want to be back.
I think we need to up the game
and make sure that we keepup building this trust,
and create this flywheelof trust, of connection,
of community, of delightful experiences,
of the satisfaction when youget when you're in a room,
(14:50):
you get an adrenaline of great ideas
resonating with your teammembers and this keeps going.
And I think there will be that momentum
to kind of create that.
I can see it, I'm very optimistic.
- Oh, thank you so much.
I'm very optimistic afterlistening from you as well.
And thank you again for this conversation,
and thank you for your time.
(15:11):
And I'm Pamela Jouwena for "Hassle Talks."
Do listen to our othertalks in the future.
(crowd indistinctly chattering)
- I remember coming here
to the Great Room Centennialearly in 2020 pre-COVID.
Wondering in off the street you will say
this workspace feelsmore like a hotel lounge
than a co-working space.
The cafe and lounge were buzzing,
it was full of peoplesharing ideas and innovating.
(00:24):
The smell of coffee as soonas you arrive with the view
of the Singapore flyer and thewater is just so energising.
And then COVID-19 hit
and we all had to hit the pause button.
But then fast forward one year later,
I came here again for a workshop
(00:45):
with our client and itamazed me how the buzz
and energy felt the samedespite the additional measures
like the safe distancing and mask wearing.
And that moment really broughthome to me the strength
of the community and people'shunger to be together again.
My name is Pam Jouwena and I'm joining you
(01:06):
from a recording studio in aco-working space in Singapore.
And here with me today is Jaelle Ang,
owner and founder of the Great Room.
Thank you again, Jaelle for joining us.
- Oh, first Pam, it's such a pleasure
to be kind of doing this in person.
We take it for granted, butit feels so nice and so warm.
So thank you for this opportunity.
(01:28):
- Would you explain a little bit more
about the Great Room?
- You know, it takes me back
to the first time when allbright eye and slightly naive,
when we came with a briefand we were designing,
we wanted to change the world,
we wanted to solve problems
of how people feel so jaded going to work.
And we came to Hassel andthe brief at the time,
and what we were solving for was,
(01:52):
it was excitement.
We were solving for building.
Can we have a space thatbuilds a great community,
a like-minded community?
And I believe great designdraws a like-minded community.
And we were also solvingfor that casual collision
that excitement of wantingto be with other people.
And in the whole lastfive years of the journey,
(02:13):
the evolution of this journey,
I think at each stage we startsolving for different things.
When COVID struck, whenthe pandemic happened
we realised the bigand the important thing
to solve for was for safety.
It's speaking to the experts,putting in the protocols,
whether it's social distancing,capacity sanitization,
(02:35):
cleaning the spaces.
We wanted people to feel
that the space was safeenough for them to come back.
Then we realised the next evolution
or the next step up is solving for trust.
How can we build this trust?
Trust may not be a reality of the safety
but it's a perception.
(02:57):
We need to trust environment operator,
the space that you are in,
the teams that you work with.
As Singapore slowly starts opening up
and to some extent in differentways, different speeds,
Hong Kong and Bangkok.
The next thing we're very excited
to solve for its connection.
I think one of the biggestchallenge that we have
(03:18):
is people are lonely.
So as we open up and peopleare seeking this connection
or reconnection as they slowlycome back into the office,
we want a trustworthy environment,
we wanna collaborate safely,
but we also want to beconnected with the people,
whether new or old again.
And I think the role of that office
(03:40):
or the co-working space has changed
because of that and it has been changing.
So to me, the office nowneeds to be a real space
of high value interactions,of collaborations,
things that is so difficult to do in Zoom
because you can't jump up with excitement,
and be really excited,
and have that resonancewhen you hit a great idea.
(04:01):
It's more of a take turnsto talk kind of platform.
Whereas when you're in their room
you could stand up, you couldjump, you could high five,
you could all say, oh my gosh,
that's so good.- Yeah
- And you need that kind of energy
to do that wonderful, great collaboration.
Then the second role ofthe office, it's also,
it needs to be that modernagora, a space of learning,
(04:23):
a gathering of great ideas,
because things are changing even faster
pivoting even faster,
and if we need to move at this pace
then we all need to bein a learning environment
and be learning (indistinct)together with our peers to
to solve the next big problem.
So the office needs to beable to allow you to do that.
- I totally agree with that,
(04:44):
because coming here and I hope,
'cause people listening, maybecoming outside Singapore,
outside Asia,
and I think a lot ofthings can be also learned
from how the Great room has come up
with a great return and howpeople actually come back
to this vibrancy and collaborating again.
And actually today when we come in
(05:05):
you can see people actually next door
to this meeting room, having conversation,
having a live meeting, whichis completely different
from what we have withthe past Zoom fatigue
for the past almost a year now actually.
And now that we are back,
what do you see thechange of that spatial mix
(05:25):
in co-working spaces in the future?
What do you think the changes will be?
- Hmm, that's a great question
and I think in a waywe are also solving it
with the communities,
solving it with designers like yourself,
and also talking to our members.
I think for one, whenwe started we've always
(05:46):
felt it was a greatinvestment for ourselves
and for our members
to invest a lot more in the shared spaces,
the meeting rooms, the conservatory,
the pantry, the bar, the cafe,
all these spaces that is not just
bums on seats behind computers.
But when people comein you see them getting
into meeting rooms, or trainings,
(06:08):
or presentations much more.
So for our future locations
the next one that we'reworking on right now as well
we're investing more ingetting these spaces right.
I think there's also a shift in thinking,
we used to think inspace mix or a room mix,
(06:29):
and I'm trying to think in terms of
not just designing a spacebut designing an experience,
or an interaction, or a feeling.
And I think that could change the way
that we think about it.
- I think that's very relevant
to what we're doing today as well,
'cause' we're focusing moreand more about the experience,
(06:52):
the user journey,
what do we want them tofeel like when they come?
And I think going back to that idea
of that your members first approach.
I actually read this newsabout your hybrid membership,
how did it came about,
and was it because of this COVID learning,
or is it because more of whatyou've seen of the evolution
(07:15):
of what the members are asking for?
- I think we've alwaysseen ourselves as a partner
in growth, in productivity,
and in a company's journey,in our member's journey,
rather than just offeringa space that they occupy.
So if we are a partner in that journey,
(07:36):
then it's about providingall the different aspects
that allow them to kind offocus on their core business.
So the work environment thatwe realise it's firstly,
it can be decentralised, it can be remote,
it can be offline and online.
I think a lot more can be done
and a lot more that we can improve on.
(07:58):
But the fact is we've started to think
about how can we give thema more seamless journey
from when they're out ofthe physical Great Room
and when they're inthe physical Great Room
here in Singapore,
the various locations areHong Kong and Bangkok.
So that hybrid is really mirroring
the virtual environment and background,
(08:18):
and the kind of productivityinfrastructure that they need,
and what we have physically.
It sounds like a verybig statement to make,
and I think we're onlymaking kind of small steps
towards merging both worlds,
and even in the waythat we conduct things,
that's very important to us,
like the fireside chats,
and like all our thoughtleadership type of events,
(08:40):
we've just been really experimenting
going completely virtual,completely physical,
physical, virtual, likehow can we do that?
The interesting thing,
the learning that we've got
is digital is extremely exciting.
It allows us a very huge reach.
Something that'shappening in Singapore now
can reach Bangkok, Hong Kongand a very large community.
(09:03):
So that we find very exciting,
and the speakers that we can get
becomes pretty regional if not global.
However, what we've also learned
it's the constraints of digital.
We now realise it's so hardto get that chemistry vibe,
that laughter that youget in the physical world.
(09:25):
So we know we miss that
and we know that that's animportant component of feeling,
like this is the communitythat I wanna be in.
And it's a big component
in chasing away thatloneliness that you feel.
So we also want to maintain that
because it's more important than ever.
(light music)
- What do you think isfundamentally at odds now
(09:47):
between co-working todayand post a COVID-19 world,
especially after we maybe sixmonths down the road from now,
and we see that we can startgoing out again travel again?
- What is it odds?- Yeah.
- Oh, it's interesting question.
(10:08):
If you look at the macro contacts,
flexible working, co-working,
whatever that we call it,the flavour of the day,
it's really only atabout two, three percent
of total commercial real estate.
It's very low.
And pre-pandemic the prediction was
it was gonna be at 30% by 2030,
(10:30):
so it was gonna grow 10times in the next 10 years.
And with the pandemic,
with a lot of geopolitical uncertainty,
shorter business cycles,
so many things in flux andbusinesses need to make decisions
about their headcount, their real estate,
how they wanna work,where they wanna work.
(10:51):
It's pretty unfair to imagine
that they have to makedecisions for three years,
if not five years.
So they really want to bemaking decisions for six months,
for 12 months, or 18 months,much shorter business cycles.
In other words, everythingin the background
is actually accelerating this growth.
So it's not even gonna be 10 times,
it's gonna be much faster.
Now that we can workflexibly in a great space,
(11:15):
like would we go back toa traditional real estate?
Some would, but a lotmay not and wouldn't,
there are a lot of verytraditional companies
that used to think that I cannot do it
because it does not representmy identity or my brand,
or what will my employees think.
Overnight a lot of needs are debunked,
and their willingness to try,
and their willingness to be in this space
because the benefits faroutweigh the worries.
(11:37):
What we must be very cognizant is,
it's not enough just to be flexible.
People want so much morefrom their workspace
co-working space.
Flexible offices cannot justbe providing flexibility.
We need to be thinking
when I talked about we needto be thinking about trust,
about community, creating the connections
(11:58):
wellness that resiliencethat people would need now.
Like how can we be a partner
in creating all these things
to help companies win the war for talent.
Because ultimately it's about
how do I get the most out of this group
of wonderful people that I have?
- There's actually a very,very big opportunity,
a huge potential there,
(12:20):
and what is at odds?
It sounds that it's morehow do we attract back
these people coming out from their homes,
especially with all thefacts going out that,
nowadays people wanna worktwo, three days from home,
and be more flexible, beout and about everywhere.
- You totally hit the nail on the head.
Totally.
(12:40):
The last 60 days, the companiesthat have been talking to us
are all about that.
How do I, I want my people back at work,
I want them working in teams again.
How do I do that?
So I think they're trying different things
and we're working with them.
It's allowing some flexibility
but also kind of buildingthat trust in the environment,
(13:02):
for the physical environment,
for them to wanna come back to work
and a reason to come back to work.
- Mm.
- And sometimes it'sreally the small things
and the small experiences they miss.
You mentioned just now,like, when you come back
there is a certain energy and buzz
that is rather infectious.
There is the smell of coffee,
there's the water coolerchat that you have
(13:24):
with that familiar person
that you may not knowthe face or the name,
but you kind of like see them often,
and make that connection, andpeople are craving for that.
It's a little things thatkind of bring you back to.
- I totally agree with that.
And I think one last thing
to close up this veryvery nice conversation
and thank you again Jaelle for your time.
(13:46):
How do we up the game after this?
Like what's next?
Because I feel like we'vetried all the different things
and all the different approach
to entice people coming back out,
and what is next with people
becoming more flexible and fluid?
The mindset has changed.
They're more open now.
(14:07):
And is it digitalization?
- I don't think there's a silver bullet.
- Yeah.- But I think what's next
that is what makes ourwork interesting, Pam.
We are going to create the next,
and we are gonna co-create the next,
and it's also the users of the space.
And I think in the end it's a flywheel.
I think we have to trust
the natural human primitive instinct
(14:28):
to want to connect with other people
as soon as there's an opportunity.
Because we see that whenHong Kong first open
people want to be back.
I think we need to up the game
and make sure that we keepup building this trust,
and create this flywheelof trust, of connection,
of community, of delightful experiences,
of the satisfaction when youget when you're in a room,
(14:50):
you get an adrenaline of great ideas
resonating with your teammembers and this keeps going.
And I think there will be that momentum
to kind of create that.
I can see it, I'm very optimistic.
- Oh, thank you so much.
I'm very optimistic afterlistening from you as well.
And thank you again for this conversation,
and thank you for your time.
(15:11):
And I'm Pamela Jouwena for "Hassle Talks."
Do listen to our othertalks in the future.
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