March 16, 2021 • 16 mins
We're back for Season Two of Hassell Talks - thanks for joining us! Once practically unthinkable, silent city centres were a feature of 2020. And to attract people back as the COVID-19 recovery picks up pace across the globe, the challenge lies in truly understanding how and why spaces work.
The solution might be staring us – city shapers and designers – in the face. Big Data.
What exactly can big data reveal to city shapers and designers that they previously never had access to? What does it tell us about human behaviour in urban places and the opportunities to create better outcomes for stakeholders? And how does it help designers prove their effectiveness of their designs?
With Big Data as a basis, designers and clients can have more informed and meaningful conversations to help generate socially, culturally and economically valuable outcomes.
Hassell's Gerard Corcoran teams up with Norion Ubechel from Place Intelligence to dig into the role of Big Data and how it can challenge and validate the design process.
This episode of Hassell Talks was produced by Prue Vincent and Jessica van Hecke
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
- Hi, I'm Gerard Corcoran.
This is Hassell Talks.
We often hear about theeffect of disruption
on the design industry andby extension on our clients.
The emergence of newtechnology, new competitors
increasingly complexprojects, digitization,
new skills and capabilities.
(00:24):
We even see converging interests
across a variety ofcreative service providers
and we see the developingexpectations of our clients.
The creative industries are not immune
and probably have a huge amount to gain
by proactively dealingwith these dynamics.
One of those dynamics is the emergence
(00:45):
of big data analytics,something at which would
just become increasingly available
to the point of being ubiquitous.
One only has to think of theInternet of Things, sensors
in building social mediaand telecommunications data.
It represents hugeopportunities and challenges
for clients across a rangeof industries and sectors.
(01:07):
One of the key challengesis how to take that big data
and interpret it and createinsights from it that lead
to actions, which infuse thedesign process and the life
of buildings, places, andspaces designed for clients.
To help us think throughsome of these issues
I'd like to introduce NorionUbeche, founder and CEO
(01:30):
of Place Intelligence, oneof Hassell's key partners.
- Thanks, Gerard.
It's a pleasure to join Hassell Talks.
- Well, thanks Norion, and welcome.
Our clients, quite rightly,want insights that explore
and optimise the valuethat their projects create.
I mean, whether that's socialor cultural or economic value
or even if we talk aboutbeauty or wellbeing
(01:51):
for the people that usethose places or buildings
and they want to do so increasingly
through an evidence supported, data driven
but still creative design process.
So what do you think the potential is
for clients and designers who are engaged
with creating those places, spaces
(02:11):
and cities by bringing datainsight and design together?
I mean, how does it play out for clients?
What are, what are the benefits?
- What's amazing is that manyother sectors have had access
to diverse sources
of information that they cancall on to create insights
(02:32):
and intelligence to drivetheir decision making.
And the built environment sector is one
of the next areas that's gonnasee rapid change and adoption
of technologies to betterunderstand who we're designing
for and use that datato create better places
and experiences forpeople around the world.
(02:54):
So, for example, in a recent project
between Hassell and Place Intelligence,
our aim was to understand the patterns
of place use and movement
at the InternationalConvention Centre in Sydney.
And to do this, we used one year
of mobile device signal data that was seen
across the site and within the buildings
(03:16):
to understand how people used places,
how they used the retail environments,
how they used the differentaspects of the public realm to
understand what's driving user behaviour
and linking that back to designstrategy and design intent.
When clients see 36 monthsof footfall data expressed
(03:38):
as an activity heat map,and they, it reveals
and confirms places thatthey knew were popular
or places that they didn'texpect to be unpopular.
And the result is that wecan now validate the type
of designs that we're prescribing
for clients against a big data index.
(04:00):
And this really, this evidencebase of being able to look
at any location anywhere inthe world and analyse years
of trend data of how peoplehave used that place,
how they feel about it, who used it
and how it's performed economically
really enables clients tohave a lot more confidence
(04:23):
in the decision making processand generate strategies
and actions as a consequence of that.
- What do you think designersbring to this process?
You know, we've got this, this big data.
You've talked about a layerof interpretation maybe,
but is there anything elsethat you could highlight that
you know, designers can bring
(04:45):
to this interactionbetween what designers do
and what this big data is revealing?
- Yeah.
What's really interesting in that line
of thought is that designersinherently solve complex
multi-layered challengesthrough design thinking.
And have already been using many,
(05:07):
many data sources to inform that process.
And so the intersection of big data
and design thinking is wherewe can really unlock the power
and creativity that designers bring
and the influence that they bring
to solutions for different client types.
(05:29):
So for example,
if a landscape architectunderstands the patterns
of footfall and user behaviourlinked to audience sentiment
and the types of peoplethat are there, they're now
empowered to create solutionsthat match the audience,
(05:50):
that are informed by thepatterns of footfall,
not only in the locationthat they're designing
but also in reference to other locations
from around the world
that they might be callingon as case studies.
Designers know which questions to ask,
which will inform the types
of data that's requiredto come up with insights.
(06:11):
And the role of thedesigner is really where
cutting edge artificial intelligence
and machine learning isattempting to get to.
And that is around this ideaof prescriptive analytics.
And this is,
in data science, whereartificial intelligence
can not only predictwhat's likely to happen
(06:33):
but prescribe a solution that will work.
The thing is that
in an evidence-based worldwhere we find ourself today,
those prescriptivesolutions really need solid
evidence to back it up.
And that's where big data isplaying an increasing role
in the design process.
(06:54):
And so clients who are seeking to better
understand how decisions are being made
by designers can rest assured, you know,
if designers are pullingon diverse big data
from around the world,validating case studies
and design precedence by mining, you know,
a global index of cities and places.
(07:16):
And this is somethingthat Place Intelligence
has been pioneering in thebuilt environment space is
how can we reallyunderstand which data layers
we can bring together tocreate an evidence baseline
that we can use to empowerdesign and decision making?
- It's only through that engagement
with the designer and thedata and the client, you know,
(07:39):
working together that I think this idea
of a competitive advantage forthe client starts to emerge.
You know, in doing that,
they can really optimisethe way that their project
is being delivered, thevalue that comes out of it.
But also for me, it's important
(07:59):
that it allows designers tostart talking meaningfully
about a more objectivebasis for the social
or cultural or economicvalue that really smart
and creative design can generate.
You know, it's a, it's adifferent form of discussion
that we can have withclients and it's a, you know
a much more tangiblebasis for the relationship
(08:23):
which I think is a reallyexciting development.
Now, Ryan, if you, if youtake all of that, you know,
into your consideration, Imean, if you were gonna pick one
or two really significantopportunities that this presented
for clients, you know, moving beyond
the government client and the sort
(08:43):
of urban design realm,what would you pick?
What would you highlight?
- All these different sectors really have
over overlapping requirements, right?
You need to understandwho your audiences are,
so you can better meet their needs.
You need to understand how places
and spaces are used so youcan optimise their outcomes.
(09:05):
You know, in the universitysector, for example,
we've been indexing everyuniversity campus across
Australia to better understandthe inner relationships
between campuses and cities, for example.
We did a recent analysis
of a major universitythat looked to, you know,
(09:26):
understand how do universities contribute
to their neighbours.
And what we did was we used de-identified
mobile device data tounderstand, you know,
the movement of people at lunchtime
and where do they leavethe campus and go to.
And in the analysis wediscovered that, you know,
(09:46):
25% of all people go off campus for lunch,
which equals, you know, between 12
and 15 million of economicspend off the campus.
So if you're trying tooptimise on-campus economics,
having this data
at your fingertips becomesincredibly important.
- Norion, just thinkingabout transport for a second.
(10:08):
It seems to me that ifyou're in, for instance,
a public private partnership environment
a PPP environment, that thissort of rich data overlaid
with some reallydisciplined design insight
gives you potentially moreobjective, more structured basis
on which to infusethose PPP type projects.
(10:32):
That seems to me to be quitean advantageous environment
for this sort of approachand this sort of work.
- Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know,
the more evidence we canbring to the equation,
the better our design solutions can be.
Having access to a global index of cities
(10:52):
and places and all the data within it,
means that we also have to learn how
to use that information.
And so part of the partnershipwith Hassell has really
allowed place intelligence tobetter understand, you know,
the types of problemsthat designers face to
(11:13):
uncover the data that'sneeded to solve them.
- I mean, what's your viewabout the next few years?
Where do you see the next steps going?
I mean, is it more in terms
of artificial intelligencedealing with large amounts
of data, and then designers continuing to
overlay that sort ofcreative and interpretation
(11:36):
and asking of the right questions?
I mean, where, wheredo you see this headed?
- You know, as we firstmake big data available,
in a usable format, designerswill increasingly rely
on these deep levels ofinformation to inform solutions.
(11:56):
But then of course, as webetter index design typologies,
we index different cities and places,
and we blend all thesedata layers together,
we can really start relying on, you know
predictive and prescriptive analytics born
out of artificial intelligence
(12:17):
and machine learning frameworksto run scenario models.
So the rapid, you know,concept design process
instead of producing two orthree concept design iterations,
we now have the ability to produce
and test unlimited designiterations that may actually come
(12:37):
out of, you know, computer software.
And the designer's role isstill to ensure that their,
the human experience at the human level,
is inserted into those computergenerated solutions, right?
So if we look at, youknow, the current status
of digital twins andparametric modelling, you know,
(13:00):
these solutions are great,but ultimately a human being,
a designer has to sign off
that the solution is actuallysomething that will stand
up and stand the test of time.
- It seems to me, as longas that big data analysis
is being properly interpreted and is,
and the right quality ofinsight is being drawn,
(13:25):
then it would liberate designersto do great design rather
than constrained designers.
Most importantly, because itmeans that their engagement
with clients can be clear,can be evidence-based,
can be really engaging,can really drive, you know,
(13:46):
a much higher qualityof prospective outcome
which ultimately is gonnabe much more in line
with the desires and needs ofthe people that have to engage
with those places and buildings.
- Yeah, we've, we can nowretroactively audit designs
(14:06):
and design strategiesfrom around the world.
Often as architects and urban designers
and landscape architects,
our role is really in thefront end of envisioning,
designing and documenting solutions.
But we don't have a role in monitoring,
measuring and operating our solutions.
(14:29):
And so by accessing big data,
we can now retroactivelyassess design solutions
and design strategiesover many, many years
allowing us to generate deep intelligence
and deep insights of how thosesolutions actually performed.
And this gives clientsincreasing assurance
(14:53):
that the solutions thatare being prescribed are
actually best practise
and in the best interest of the community
and audience members thatwill use them into the future.
- No, I agree.
I mean, it has to be infusedby that human perspective
because surely ultimately, you know,
(15:14):
the most powerful and enduringdesign requires insight
about what matters most to people.
There are themes that are goingto be discussed and debated
and acted on over the next few years.
I think it's been, you know,
a great insight to whatPlace Intelligence does
and how we work togetherwith you at Hassell.
(15:35):
You know, I want to thank youfor your time and thank you
for your own insight in into this topic.
- Thanks, Gerard
- Hassell is also delving
into issues likedata-driven design in pieces
we post regularly on our website.
So make sure you check thatout at www.hassllestudio.com.
(15:56):
You've been listening to anepisode of Hassell Talks.
If you've enjoyed this conversation
and would like to hear more,
please subscribe and checkout our other episodes.
Thank you for listening.
- Hi, I'm Gerard Corcoran.
This is Hassell Talks.
We often hear about theeffect of disruption
on the design industry andby extension on our clients.
The emergence of newtechnology, new competitors
increasingly complexprojects, digitization,
new skills and capabilities.
(00:24):
We even see converging interests
across a variety ofcreative service providers
and we see the developingexpectations of our clients.
The creative industries are not immune
and probably have a huge amount to gain
by proactively dealingwith these dynamics.
One of those dynamics is the emergence
(00:45):
of big data analytics,something at which would
just become increasingly available
to the point of being ubiquitous.
One only has to think of theInternet of Things, sensors
in building social mediaand telecommunications data.
It represents hugeopportunities and challenges
for clients across a rangeof industries and sectors.
(01:07):
One of the key challengesis how to take that big data
and interpret it and createinsights from it that lead
to actions, which infuse thedesign process and the life
of buildings, places, andspaces designed for clients.
To help us think throughsome of these issues
I'd like to introduce NorionUbeche, founder and CEO
(01:30):
of Place Intelligence, oneof Hassell's key partners.
- Thanks, Gerard.
It's a pleasure to join Hassell Talks.
- Well, thanks Norion, and welcome.
Our clients, quite rightly,want insights that explore
and optimise the valuethat their projects create.
I mean, whether that's socialor cultural or economic value
or even if we talk aboutbeauty or wellbeing
(01:51):
for the people that usethose places or buildings
and they want to do so increasingly
through an evidence supported, data driven
but still creative design process.
So what do you think the potential is
for clients and designers who are engaged
with creating those places, spaces
(02:11):
and cities by bringing datainsight and design together?
I mean, how does it play out for clients?
What are, what are the benefits?
- What's amazing is that manyother sectors have had access
to diverse sources
of information that they cancall on to create insights
(02:32):
and intelligence to drivetheir decision making.
And the built environment sector is one
of the next areas that's gonnasee rapid change and adoption
of technologies to betterunderstand who we're designing
for and use that datato create better places
and experiences forpeople around the world.
(02:54):
So, for example, in a recent project
between Hassell and Place Intelligence,
our aim was to understand the patterns
of place use and movement
at the InternationalConvention Centre in Sydney.
And to do this, we used one year
of mobile device signal data that was seen
across the site and within the buildings
(03:16):
to understand how people used places,
how they used the retail environments,
how they used the differentaspects of the public realm to
understand what's driving user behaviour
and linking that back to designstrategy and design intent.
When clients see 36 monthsof footfall data expressed
(03:38):
as an activity heat map,and they, it reveals
and confirms places thatthey knew were popular
or places that they didn'texpect to be unpopular.
And the result is that wecan now validate the type
of designs that we're prescribing
for clients against a big data index.
(04:00):
And this really, this evidencebase of being able to look
at any location anywhere inthe world and analyse years
of trend data of how peoplehave used that place,
how they feel about it, who used it
and how it's performed economically
really enables clients tohave a lot more confidence
(04:23):
in the decision making processand generate strategies
and actions as a consequence of that.
- What do you think designersbring to this process?
You know, we've got this, this big data.
You've talked about a layerof interpretation maybe,
but is there anything elsethat you could highlight that
you know, designers can bring
(04:45):
to this interactionbetween what designers do
and what this big data is revealing?
- Yeah.
What's really interesting in that line
of thought is that designersinherently solve complex
multi-layered challengesthrough design thinking.
And have already been using many,
(05:07):
many data sources to inform that process.
And so the intersection of big data
and design thinking is wherewe can really unlock the power
and creativity that designers bring
and the influence that they bring
to solutions for different client types.
(05:29):
So for example,
if a landscape architectunderstands the patterns
of footfall and user behaviourlinked to audience sentiment
and the types of peoplethat are there, they're now
empowered to create solutionsthat match the audience,
(05:50):
that are informed by thepatterns of footfall,
not only in the locationthat they're designing
but also in reference to other locations
from around the world
that they might be callingon as case studies.
Designers know which questions to ask,
which will inform the types
of data that's requiredto come up with insights.
(06:11):
And the role of thedesigner is really where
cutting edge artificial intelligence
and machine learning isattempting to get to.
And that is around this ideaof prescriptive analytics.
And this is,
in data science, whereartificial intelligence
can not only predictwhat's likely to happen
(06:33):
but prescribe a solution that will work.
The thing is that
in an evidence-based worldwhere we find ourself today,
those prescriptivesolutions really need solid
evidence to back it up.
And that's where big data isplaying an increasing role
in the design process.
(06:54):
And so clients who are seeking to better
understand how decisions are being made
by designers can rest assured, you know,
if designers are pullingon diverse big data
from around the world,validating case studies
and design precedence by mining, you know,
a global index of cities and places.
(07:16):
And this is somethingthat Place Intelligence
has been pioneering in thebuilt environment space is
how can we reallyunderstand which data layers
we can bring together tocreate an evidence baseline
that we can use to empowerdesign and decision making?
- It's only through that engagement
with the designer and thedata and the client, you know,
(07:39):
working together that I think this idea
of a competitive advantage forthe client starts to emerge.
You know, in doing that,
they can really optimisethe way that their project
is being delivered, thevalue that comes out of it.
But also for me, it's important
(07:59):
that it allows designers tostart talking meaningfully
about a more objectivebasis for the social
or cultural or economicvalue that really smart
and creative design can generate.
You know, it's a, it's adifferent form of discussion
that we can have withclients and it's a, you know
a much more tangiblebasis for the relationship
(08:23):
which I think is a reallyexciting development.
Now, Ryan, if you, if youtake all of that, you know,
into your consideration, Imean, if you were gonna pick one
or two really significantopportunities that this presented
for clients, you know, moving beyond
the government client and the sort
(08:43):
of urban design realm,what would you pick?
What would you highlight?
- All these different sectors really have
over overlapping requirements, right?
You need to understandwho your audiences are,
so you can better meet their needs.
You need to understand how places
and spaces are used so youcan optimise their outcomes.
(09:05):
You know, in the universitysector, for example,
we've been indexing everyuniversity campus across
Australia to better understandthe inner relationships
between campuses and cities, for example.
We did a recent analysis
of a major universitythat looked to, you know,
(09:26):
understand how do universities contribute
to their neighbours.
And what we did was we used de-identified
mobile device data tounderstand, you know,
the movement of people at lunchtime
and where do they leavethe campus and go to.
And in the analysis wediscovered that, you know,
(09:46):
25% of all people go off campus for lunch,
which equals, you know, between 12
and 15 million of economicspend off the campus.
So if you're trying tooptimise on-campus economics,
having this data
at your fingertips becomesincredibly important.
- Norion, just thinkingabout transport for a second.
(10:08):
It seems to me that ifyou're in, for instance,
a public private partnership environment
a PPP environment, that thissort of rich data overlaid
with some reallydisciplined design insight
gives you potentially moreobjective, more structured basis
on which to infusethose PPP type projects.
(10:32):
That seems to me to be quitean advantageous environment
for this sort of approachand this sort of work.
- Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know,
the more evidence we canbring to the equation,
the better our design solutions can be.
Having access to a global index of cities
(10:52):
and places and all the data within it,
means that we also have to learn how
to use that information.
And so part of the partnershipwith Hassell has really
allowed place intelligence tobetter understand, you know,
the types of problemsthat designers face to
(11:13):
uncover the data that'sneeded to solve them.
- I mean, what's your viewabout the next few years?
Where do you see the next steps going?
I mean, is it more in terms
of artificial intelligencedealing with large amounts
of data, and then designers continuing to
overlay that sort ofcreative and interpretation
(11:36):
and asking of the right questions?
I mean, where, wheredo you see this headed?
- You know, as we firstmake big data available,
in a usable format, designerswill increasingly rely
on these deep levels ofinformation to inform solutions.
(11:56):
But then of course, as webetter index design typologies,
we index different cities and places,
and we blend all thesedata layers together,
we can really start relying on, you know
predictive and prescriptive analytics born
out of artificial intelligence
(12:17):
and machine learning frameworksto run scenario models.
So the rapid, you know,concept design process
instead of producing two orthree concept design iterations,
we now have the ability to produce
and test unlimited designiterations that may actually come
(12:37):
out of, you know, computer software.
And the designer's role isstill to ensure that their,
the human experience at the human level,
is inserted into those computergenerated solutions, right?
So if we look at, youknow, the current status
of digital twins andparametric modelling, you know,
(13:00):
these solutions are great,but ultimately a human being,
a designer has to sign off
that the solution is actuallysomething that will stand
up and stand the test of time.
- It seems to me, as longas that big data analysis
is being properly interpreted and is,
and the right quality ofinsight is being drawn,
(13:25):
then it would liberate designersto do great design rather
than constrained designers.
Most importantly, because itmeans that their engagement
with clients can be clear,can be evidence-based,
can be really engaging,can really drive, you know,
(13:46):
a much higher qualityof prospective outcome
which ultimately is gonnabe much more in line
with the desires and needs ofthe people that have to engage
with those places and buildings.
- Yeah, we've, we can nowretroactively audit designs
(14:06):
and design strategiesfrom around the world.
Often as architects and urban designers
and landscape architects,
our role is really in thefront end of envisioning,
designing and documenting solutions.
But we don't have a role in monitoring,
measuring and operating our solutions.
(14:29):
And so by accessing big data,
we can now retroactivelyassess design solutions
and design strategiesover many, many years
allowing us to generate deep intelligence
and deep insights of how thosesolutions actually performed.
And this gives clientsincreasing assurance
(14:53):
that the solutions thatare being prescribed are
actually best practise
and in the best interest of the community
and audience members thatwill use them into the future.
- No, I agree.
I mean, it has to be infusedby that human perspective
because surely ultimately, you know,
(15:14):
the most powerful and enduringdesign requires insight
about what matters most to people.
There are themes that are goingto be discussed and debated
and acted on over the next few years.
I think it's been, you know,
a great insight to whatPlace Intelligence does
and how we work togetherwith you at Hassell.
(15:35):
You know, I want to thank youfor your time and thank you
for your own insight in into this topic.
- Thanks, Gerard
- Hassell is also delving
into issues likedata-driven design in pieces
we post regularly on our website.
So make sure you check thatout at www.hassllestudio.com.
(15:56):
You've been listening to anepisode of Hassell Talks.
If you've enjoyed this conversation
and would like to hear more,
please subscribe and checkout our other episodes.
Thank you for listening.
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