Inside the push for net zero Perth. With Karla Fox-Reynolds, Dr. Brad Pettitt MLC and Professor Josh Byrne

Perth in Western Australia has joined thousands of other cities around the world aiming for Net Zero carbon emissions by 2050. How will this unique city, facing unique climate challenges, meet the target? And how will designers help the city go beyond the standards to beat the clock and make a thriving, regenerative hub?

Hassell’s Sustainable Design Leader Karla Fox-Reynolds joined self-confessed 'sustainability nerd' the Hon. Dr. Brad Pettitt MLC and environmental scientist Prof. Josh Byrne for a conversation in our Perth studio on Whadjuk Country alongside peers from the design industry, and private and public organisations.

The conversation spanned commercial and residential, urban and public spaces and the potential for adaptive reuse in the transition to net zero.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
- From global design practise Hassell,
this is Hassell Talks,
a podcast series passionate
about the transformative power
of design to make theworld a better place.
I'm Karla Fox-Reynolds,
sustainable design leaderin Hassell's Perth studio,
and I'm your host for this episode.
It's an exciting one.
We talk about how Perth couldtransition to a net zero city,

(00:24):
and what role regenerativedesign can play in doing that.
Our studio is on Whadjuk country,
and I acknowledged the Nyoongar elders
past, present and emerging.
In March, 2023, as partof the Perth Design Week,
we hosted a conversationin our Perth studio,
and today, we're sharing an edited version
of that event with you.

(00:46):
As you'll hear, theconversation was robust.
We spoke about what benefits
could come from being a net zero city,
going beyond low carbon emissions,
and how designers, policy makers,
and other industrycolleagues can play important
and collaborative rolesin getting us there.
Ideas were shared on how to challenge
project briefs through engagement

(01:06):
and applying a moreholistic view to a project.
We heard how homes arethe low-hanging fruit,
an opportunity forpublic-private partnerships,
and that construction codes in Australia
are not enabling industry to design
or deliver high performing buildings.
Our MC, an old friend of mine,
Prof. Josh Byrne,
kicked the conversation off.

(01:27):
Josh, who Australian listeners
may know from the ABC'slong-running TV show
"Gardening Australia."
He's also the inaugural
Dean of Sustainable Futuresat Curtin University.
Enjoy the episode.
(audience applauding)
- So let's meet our group to get underway.
Firstly, Dr. Brad Pettitt MLC.
So Brad, as we all know,

(01:48):
is a self-professed sustainability nerd.
He's well known to all of us
as the much-loved formerMayor of Freemantle,
and prior to his role asMayor of City of Freemantle,
he was the Dean of theSchool of Sustainability
at Murdoch, taking overfrom Prof. Peter Newman,
of course, who's now at Curtin.

(02:11):
In 2021, Brad was elected
to the Legislative Councilof the WA Parliament.
Brad champions a ground-upapproach to sustainability,
and is leading the NetZero Perth initiative,
with a range ofstakeholders from industry,
government, academia, and civil society,
and we'll hear more aboutthat this afternoon, I'm sure.

(02:32):
Next, we have Karla Fox-Reynolds,
of course, who is now with Hassell
as their sustainable designleader in the Perth studio,
and part of the practice'sglobal sustainability team.
Karla participates in national industry
working groups such as the GBCA's
Sustainable PrecinctExpert Reference Panel,
and previously held rolesat both Curtin University,

(02:54):
where I worked with Karla, andalso Climate-KIC Australia.
Then we have Ben Rees,
who is a senior associatearchitect here at Hassell.
He was a project teamleader on the WA Museum,
and is now project leadfor Murdoch Square.
Ben is interested in how we better define
high performance buildings,
and how we can apply systems thinking

(03:15):
to optimise the design, delivery,
and operation of our buildings,
so their resource and energyefficiency is optimised.
And then finally, we have Zannah Anderson,
who is an interiordesigner here at Hassell.
Zannah moved back toAustralia one year ago
after spending four years in Dubai,
and is currently workingon the interior design

(03:38):
for Home Fires film studio.
She is interested in the micro-scale
of sustainability and regenerative design,
and the impact of carefully considered
materials and spaces.
Right.
With that, let's get underway.
So, let's start with Brad,
and can you just give us your pitch

(03:59):
for Net Zero Perth as an initiative?
You know, what are you trying to achieve,
and how do you see it becoming a reality?
- Thanks, Josh.
And getting carbon emissions
down to zero is really important,
so energy is a key part of it,
but it's also about build form
and how we tamed the nature of our city.
Obviously, you could have a net zero city

(04:19):
that continued to sprawl,
and just relied on electric cars,
you know, and renewable energy,
but that's not a very livable city.
It's also about livabilityand rethinking the open form.
Of course, that links in with transport,
which becomes a really,another key part of it
around how we move around,
and what's the best way to link that in.

(04:41):
And then finally, urban greening,
which of course has becomea really key part of that,
because if you're going tohave a livable low-carbon city,
then it's gotta be a green city as well.
Some of the fine-grain stuff,
which I know many of youhave been involved in here
around that neighbourhood sky,
how do we redesign the city block,
and our neighbourhood blocks as well,
all the way down to the household scale,

(05:01):
how we redefine our homes,
make them part of the solution.
So, it's got almost these 12 chapters,
because you've got the four bits
of energy, transport, building reform,
and greening over thosethree different decade.
We hear a lot about net zero by 2050.
Good, but not actually matching up

(05:22):
with what the science says we need to do.
So, how can we speed that up,
but do that in a way that inspires?
I mean, I think there'soften the sense of,
it feels like a bit of a hairshirt approach sometimes,
the idea that the transition.
And I think it can beactually just better,
and actually so inspiring how this idea
of a low-carbon livable net zero city
can be a better city,

(05:42):
I guess is what we're hoping it will be.
And the idea is we'll tryand have some draughts out
around the middle of this year,
and then we want to actuallygo back to committee
and say, "What's missing?"
and actually have it
as a very collaborative projectas we go forward as well.
- A quick followup question, if I can,
just to help everyone understand
how this might fit into other work

(06:03):
that's happening in the policy
and legislation space at the moment in WA,
of course, with the state government's
proposed climate change legislation.
How is the round tablethat you're chairing,
and the fantastic industry
and academic engagement that
you do have in place through that,
how is that aligning withsort of the sectorial

(06:24):
consultation work that's happening,
and the proposed targets that
are mooted for towardsthe end of the year?
- That reminds me of my favourite numbers,
which I always like to talk about
when I think about Net Zero,
about cities and carbon.
So 2% of land mass,
I think around about now 52% of people,
and about 72% of machines
are associated with cities.

(06:44):
So if you get cities right,
we actually solve a whole bunch of stuff.
And the government's workingreally hard this year,
and there's some reallygood work happening
around what I callsectoral mis-introduction,
so it'd be SERS, which is a process
that they hope to go public
on in the second half of this year.
And what we're trying in many ways
is work alongside that, but inspire that

(07:06):
to go further and harder, and better.
Which is actually why it's really nice
he got ministerial staff
kind of involved in the round table.
Because some of thatwork will happen there.
The government's committed to legislating
net zero by 2050, and to actually come up
with a series of interim targets.
And what I hope we can do is inform

(07:29):
what those interim targets could be,
and make those as ambitious as possible.
There's a whole bunch
of low hanging fruitout there in this space
that I think is really exciting
that I think we can do.
- Thank you.
Karla, I might throw to you next.
We know that, at the moment,
the term net zero, it's everywhere,
and it's one of thosethings like the cloud was,
you know, 15 years ago.

(07:51):
It's net zero, everyone'skind of got that sorted,
but no one quite knows what it means.
What are you doing in your work,
and where are you seeing the conversation
from leading design firms in relation
to this notion of regenerativedesign to go beyond net zero?
- Thanks, Josh.
Hassell has made a commitment
to what they're calling theSustainability Framework,

(08:12):
and in doing that, they have employed
a global sustainability team.
That started last year withthe employment of Sam Peart.
She's the Global Head of Sustainability.
And that's not just focused in one area,
that's across all offices.
The mentality is that sustainability
becomes our base load.
That becomes our minimum.
And we're working towards that
regenerative design space.

(08:33):
So we're no longer working
in this sort of greenor degenerative area,
we're working from sustainableto regenerative design.
We're not saying at this point
that we know exactly whatregenerative design looks like.
It's going to have a wholehost of different complexities.
There are going to be alot of different solutions
dependent on the site, project,
client, portfolio, location, and so on.

(08:57):
But what we're saying is that
we're a part of the solution,
and we recognise our roleand our responsibility.
This is a team sport.
We all are gonna play a role,
and we're sort of jumping on board.
In doing that, we'verecognised 12 principles.
Don't know whether that's... (laughs)

(09:19):
12 is a magic number.
And that is, like you just said,
we're not just talking about carbon.
We are talking about the site.
We're talking about ecology.
We're talking about materials.
We're talking about thesocial aspect as well.
So, I think one of the big pieces
that design brings tothis is about recognising
that how we need to create

(09:40):
regenerative design can enable
thrive-ability for people and nature,
and the environment.
What can we be doing to enable
these places for us to alllive and thrive together?
So, that's the vision thatwe're working towards,
and for Hassell, that meansall people, all projects.
So, as part of one of our tasks

(10:03):
as the sustainability team,
and the reason whywe're going to be spread
across the business and in all offices
is so that we can beworking with architects
and designers that already have
their fantastic skills,they're leading their field,
but what can we do tobring them on the journey,
enable sustainable mindsets.

(10:24):
Help them to recognise that
actually they probablyhave most of the skills,
they have the ideas, andwhat can we do to help them
to recognise where the opportunities are,
when to have the conversations.
What are the questions thatthey need to be asking?
Who are the clients thatwe want to be working with?
Where do we align?

(10:45):
How do we challenge the norm,
go beyond business as usual?
So, like I said,sustainability is our minimum,
but then we're movingto regenerative design,
and that means thinking outside
of the typical project boundaries.
- Okay.
Probably a good time to throw
to a couple of project architects
who are working on the details.

(11:06):
So we're going from thesort of high-level concepts
into the nitty-gritty nuts and bolts here.
So, Ben, I might start with you.
So, as an architect working
on some of Perth's biggest,most exciting projects,
what is it that you're not getting
adequate guidance from at the moment?
So, with Hassell framing

(11:27):
its new 12-principleSustainability Framework,
and moving towards this notion
of regenerative design,
and trying to put some structure,
and some metrics, and some evidence-based,
you know, sort of parameters around that.
I'm intrigued to hearfrom your perspective
working on the detail,
what do you feel you'relacking at the moment?

(11:48):
Given that there issome excellent guidance
at a sort of design guider perspective
coming out of the DesignWA series, for example.
There are some well-established
sustainability frameworks at the moment.
GBCA, Living Building Challenge, others,
if we can stretch that far.
So, I guess my question is,
what are the missing mechanisms

(12:09):
that are not enabling you to take projects
where you think they need to go?
- I think the main question is,
how do we measure performance
in the projects we do?
And there's all sorts of qualitative
and quantitative metrics around
what success looks like.
And in all of our projects, you know,

(12:29):
we have to apply sort of multiple
different lenses and different angles
as to analysing how aproject can be sustainable,
regenerative, and all the rest of it.
So, it's kind of like you have to take
a holistic view of everythingeverywhere all at once,
and you have to think about sort of scales
from macro to micro, andtime, short time to long time.

(12:52):
And every project is sort of different,
depending on the brief, the budget,
the building typology.
And, you know, on aproject like the museum,
it's actually quite easy to achieve
a lot of success, becauseeveryone's behind it.
It's kind of a one-off for Perth.
You know, it's a really,really important building,

(13:14):
and so it achieved a lot of things
in terms of adaptive reuse,
regenerating the cultural precinct,
and, you know, a high-performing building.
But for me, and I think a lot of us,
there's an enormous frustration
in terms of the codes andthe regulatory framework
about how we build buildings,

(13:35):
and how to achieve ahigh performing building.
Because, to be frank, we're about 20 years
behind Europe in terms ofwhat a high performance
building is and looks like,
in terms of, say, the fabric of it.
And I'm sort of referring to thermal
and energy performance, air tightness,
you know, that sort of thing.
We have these sort of leaky sieves,

(13:56):
where every two minutes, allof the air in the building
either has to be heated or cooled,
because it's all leaking out, you know,
at sort of 15 to 20 air changes an hour.
NCC22 is a minor improvement,
but it's not going that far,
and we've kicked the can down the road
until 2025 here in WA.
The reality is we've got alot of catching up to do.
So those sort of standards

(14:18):
are minimum standards for compliance.
We need to get really aspirational.
How do we achieve, you know,
not just a car that's roadworthy,
but, you know, a high performance?
You know, that sort of thing.
If you designed a car tothe minimum standards,
you probably wouldn't wanna buy it.
You'd want to get somethingbetter than that, right?
And it doesn't necessarily cost loads
more money to do it, but it does require

(14:40):
a change in thinking that takes
a lot more considerationon building science,
and how buildings actually work
more than what they look like.
And I guess, you know,
it also requires a major education drive,
in terms of the community, the trades,
and how those kind of buildings get built,

(15:01):
because, you know, it's different.
But I think, you know,we should be looking
at things like passive house,
and those kind of technologiesor building methods,
and seeing what we can learn from them,
how we can apply them.
You know, in Frankfurt,they've just opened
a passive house hospital of 700 beds,
all designed to, and foranyone who doesn't know

(15:22):
what passive house is,it's super-insulated,
triple-glazed heat recovery ventilation.
You know, it's this sortof ultra high-performance
energy-efficient building typology.
And if it can be done in Europe...
Yes, you need an enormous amount
of kind of regulatory impetus,
or a very visionary client,

(15:44):
but all the tools exist for us
to do really high-performance buildings,
but, you know, we'vegot a real problem here.
We need to build a lot more housing,
a lot more socialhousing, and the fact is,
if we build that to current standards,
you're talking about...
In 25 years time it's supposedly net zero,
but if we're buildingit to current standards,
it's gonna be substandard then,

(16:05):
and it's gonna need to be retrofitted,
and who's gonna pay for that retrofitting?
You're just essentially, you know,
I think risking creating a problem
further down the track thatis too expensive to solve,
and I guess for us the frustration
is that we could solve it now,
but, you know, theframework has to be there,
because the incentiveisn't necessarily there

(16:25):
to go beyond the code,
because, you know, it'shard and it costs more.
- We'll come back to how we might
de-risk policy changea little bit later on.
I think, from my perspective,
that's one of the mostexciting opportunities
we have as a fraternity.- Absolutely, yeah.
- By demonstrating leadership
and providing the room and the space

(16:45):
for regulators to actually fill.
Zannah, so much of the conversation
around Net Zero aspirations is around
operational energy.
From an interior design perspective,
when you're looking at, in terms of LCA,
it's the regular refitting
and refurbishment of buildings,
and specifically interiors,

(17:06):
which, over the life of the building,
really do start to add up.
I'd be keen to hear any reflections
that you've got in terms of trends
you're seeing in the space,
and whether or not the kind of importance
of net zero that we see from,
I guess, a high-level policy setting,
and project aspiration level.
Is that filtering down to the detail

(17:26):
that you're working on?
And is that conversation mature
in this part of the design?
- Well, it should be, right?
It should be filtering down.
And I think the more that you listen
to the discourse, just generally,
you can kind of get an understanding
that interiors is sort of,
well, for us, our optionsare quite straightforward,

(17:49):
and they're there.
It's the materials we choose,
the furniture we choose,
and the way that we chooseto detail our designs.
And so, in a sense,
there's a much more forward trajectory,
straight, narrow path to follow
than trying to do something
aspirationally kind ofin an urban setting,
which is much larger.
I think it's interesting
to look at Hassell'sSustainability Framework

(18:12):
when it comes to interiors,
and there's sort of notions in there
that should always be keptin the back of your head,
and they're things that,coming from the Middle East,
I definitely, that didn't cross my path.
But, you know, it's coming down to,
okay, board sizes of a material,
and making sure that we'renot creating extra waste,

(18:33):
and purchasing extra product.
But then it can be further than that,
that if you have that time for research,
and the budget that allows you,
you can start looking into materiality,
which is much more conscious,
and much better in a longevity situation.
- I might just throw to Karla,

(18:53):
just picking up on theidea of retrofitting,
and you mentioned earlier.
I know we're sort of going
from commercial buildings back to resi.
But I want to focus onthe residential housing
for a moment, because I know that Karla,
in her previous life atClimate-KIC Australia
was involved in anincredible piece of work
with several universities involved,

(19:15):
Curtin being one, UTS being another,
called A Million Homes.
And it was looking at, you know,
the plans and processesand systems required
to rapidly retrofit amillion homes or more.
So, scaling up the typesof retrofitting practises
that we all know work, andreturn very real benefits

(19:38):
to households in terms of comfort
and health and savings.
Just to give us yourtake on the opportunities
in retrofit versus new build.
We often get excited with new builds,
but how about the retrofits?
- I get excited about retrofit. (laughs)
And mostly for homes,but also when you look
at the city landscape,and I would love to know

(20:00):
the numbers of how many buildings
just within the city that sit dormant,
and what we could, andreally start to consider
what we could actually do with that,
what policy would openup those opportunities.
But then, looking at residential,
and Ben started to touch on it,
if we are building new homes now
that are going to need
to be retrofitted in 5, 10.

(20:22):
Well, in reality, theyneed to be retrofitted
the day after somebody moves in,
the way they're being built right now.
We already have,
so there's 10 millionhomes within Australia.
Approximately 8 million ofthose need retrofitting.
Obviously, NCC2022 isprogress for Australia.
It took us 10, 12 yearsto have some progress.

(20:46):
Hopefully, there is already,
behind the scenes, a lot of talk
about what the next NCC looks like.
Yay, we have a visitor. (laughs)
And there is talk about,from the industry,
driving that towards net zero for homes.
We already have examplesof that internationally.
From a scaling perspective,

(21:06):
the issue that we found is that
it isn't about the solutions.
We generally know what needsto be done for our home.
We have the tools now.
There's the national
Residential Energy EfficiencyScorecard that can be done.
It costs a few hundred dollars.
Somebody would walk through a home,
and go through the process,
and give you a star rating,
and then also tell youwhat they would recommend

(21:29):
to be able to increase theefficiency of your home.
Something that we also found, though,
is that people, the actual process,
and even those of us that are involved
in the industry thought of going through
the process from that Iwant to improve my home,
to the actual realisation of that
is a very difficult process.

(21:50):
You might now have a star rating,
and something that tells you,
but then who do you call?
Do you know a trade local that
is actually capable of doing that?
If you were to find somebody,
find a plumber and say,or an electrician and say,
"I'd like to remove all gas from my home.
We'd like to electrify.
We're thinking aboutputting in a heat pump,"
they'll most probablyjust try and talk you

(22:11):
into having gasinstantaneous, for example.
That's a tricky piecethat we need to come over,
and it's a case of upscaling.
And there's a lot that can be done,
from a governmentperspective to enable that.
- What I loved about that piece of work,
it's not just reiteratingthe stuff we already know,
in terms of how we go about making

(22:32):
a conventional, you know,Aussie standalone detached house
net zero in operation,and more comfortable.
It's actually all about,
how do you build the supply chains,
and the business ecosystem in this country
to actually make it a financiallypositive outcome as well?
- And, I mean, homes in many ways
actually are the low-hangingfruit in lots of ways.
And I think we've allseen some of the work

(22:54):
that Saul Griffith and thewhole Rewiring Australia,
pulling gas out of your buildings,
electrifying, heat pumps, insulation.
It's not rocket science.
It pays for itself really quickly.
And I think, for me,a whole bunch of stuff
in that space that justmakes a huge amount
of sense that we need to do quickly,
and that actually, Ithink, just makes sense.

(23:14):
But you need, again,
building up industryand capacity to do that.
And enabling especially,
because there's a realchallenge with these things,
and it also applies to electric vehicles,
even electric bikes, whichwe talked about earlier,
where you've got this upfront capital cost
but then they just pay for themselves
so beautifully over time.

(23:35):
But how do you helppeople who aren't wealthy
to be able to, many ways,get past that first hurdle
and actually do that?
I think, and that's a reallyimportant role for government,
where government, and Ioften look at the ACT,
who do lots of reallygood stuff in the space.
They actually offer low,
or actually sometimes no-interest loans
to help people buy into it, actually,

(23:56):
so they can do some ofthis low-hanging fruit.
And then, all of asudden, those households,
and Saul Griffith's numbers are, I mean,
that by the end of this decade,
the average householdwill save $5000 a year
on energy bills if they electrify.
And by electrify, it meanselectrify your transport,
your car, and electrify your house.
That's huge savings, and if you can help

(24:18):
especially lower-incomehouseholds do that,
I think that's some of the bestlow-hanging fruit we can do.
- Do the targets play a role here?
So, is that somethingthat's being considered
within the departmentsbecause now obviously,
and speaking from WA StateGovernment perspective,
have a target and everything,
every asset, every building,
every tenancy will havean impact on that target.

(24:39):
Is that a way that I can be communicated
about if we are going to be trying
to reach this target,then another building,
or another tenancy is goingto have to make up for that?
- Logic suggests thatit must do eventually,
but has it filtered down to that point yet
of working that out?
- I think that's the process

(25:00):
that's happening right now,
through SERS I think is how.
And who takes that weight
in terms of actuallymeeting those targets?
- So, this presents a reallyinteresting opportunity,
and I think we're all wanting
to take something away from this afternoon
about how we look to operationalize
or implement initiatives in various shapes
and forms to nudge things along.
And if the role out of SERS,

(25:23):
and if there are these sectoral reviews
that are happening, whichwould include, you know,
the delivery of publicbuildings and assets,
for those who work inthe design fraternity,
in that part of the industry,
there's an opportunity.
You know, particularly thebig firms that are designing,
that have significant reputations
and are trusted for their advice.

(25:45):
If they're speaking up and saying,
"Right, here's theopportunity to go beyond
what you normally do."
Consider adjusting the brief
so that you can meet those returns
of carbon emissionsavings as you're required
to do under the state government targets.
That's an interventionpoint that is live now,
between now and the end of the year.
- My fear sometimes with theNet Zero language though is,

(26:07):
and I think this is actually
a real danger for how this plays out,
is that we're going to try
and have a net zero versionof what we do already.
And my fear is that eventually,
you'll swap out everyinternal combustion car
with an electric car, and we just may have
every house with a solar panel on it,
and we think that's okay.
I guess that's what I was trying to say
is let's don't make that oursolution to a carbon problem.

(26:32):
- Something I'd like to add in is the idea
of a whole-of-life carbon measurement
being done as part ofthe planning process.
So, in some part, it's, how do we change
the measures of success,
and how do we change our priorities?
So, if we're talkinglanguages that go beyond,
if we're thinking froman economic perspective,
it goes beyond just the dollarwhere we're talking about,

(26:54):
we start talking about carbon,
we start talking about comfort,
we start to think about health, society.
And all of those are amalgamatedas the same conversation,
and we measure them inwhatever manner we best can.
And obviously environmentin there as well,
but that's a trickyone, really tricky one.
It starts to change what a building,

(27:15):
or a precinct, or a city would look like,
because our measure ofsuccess is different.
So, I think that's somethingI'd really like to see,
and that needs to happenin planning and in process,
but it also needs to happen,that shift of mindset.
- Mark Taylor from Hesperia.

(27:35):
Great conversation.
Thanks, everybody.
So, I was just going to talk about
our net zero a little bit,
you know, it goes a little bit
to a private side as well.
We're actually net zero now.
So, our current projectsare set up to be remeasure,
reduce, and offset, and I actually think
that's a bit of a minimum.
We're trying to get away from,
particularly the offsetting,
and by 2030 we want to be doing

(27:57):
very little offsettingand still be net zero.
And by 2040 we think that's as light
as we can possibly land to having
actually zero carbon projects.
Also around the focusing on carbon,
I think, is obviously important.
We're doing it to understand carbon,
and what makes a difference.
But the thing I notice again and again
is that when we do try and engage

(28:20):
with these difficult problems,
we end up getting much better buildings.
You know, if you think, "Idon't want to use concrete,
I'm going to use timber on this one,"
replace the steel inout sheds or something,
it's just a much nicer building,
and all kinds of amazing kindof co-benefits seem to emerge.
And I think that goes for landscape

(28:40):
a little bit as well,as we try and repair,
do some of this natureregeneration and so on.
We're just ending upwith better landscapes
and better spaces.
There's also energy.
As we move to renewable energy,
there's different ways we can think now,
where rather than just wanting to be more
and more efficient all the time,
we can say, well, what is actually
a really good use of energy?

(29:01):
You know, what should we be using it for?
And where do we need to be efficient?
Where could we actually use a bit more?
Because we use it the right time of day,
or from the right sources,
recirculating air in buildings,
maybe we can just stop doing that
because we can, you know,do the renewable energy,
and then it's a much healthier result.
I'm just saying, there's a whole

(29:21):
lot of sort of potential co-benefits
on this journey that I think,
for a lot of people here,that's actually our job.
We're already wanting to go there.
We kind of get what we have to do,
but to make it more compelling,
I think there just is a good story there.
It goes along with the hard work,
and let's capture that.

(29:43):
- Well said.
To wrap up, to Brad and Karla,
so, as I mentioned earlier,
I think we all want to sort of leave
this conversation this afternoon,
you know, with a senseof how, as a fraternity
in this design space,we can all contribute

(30:03):
to positive change.
I think we're all doingthat in our own ways
with the work we do.
But maybe, Brad, if Ican start with you first,
what are some of the, I guess,
the two or three key waysthat design practitioners,
at this point in time, in Perth,
can go beyond just collaboration,

(30:25):
but actually contribute to fast-tracking
the transition towardsseeing really good design,
and net zero, beyond zero outcomes,
and the broader sustainability outcomes
in the built environment?
How do we get to thatpoint beyond collaboration?

(30:47):
- Yeah.
There's a few ways, and collaboration
is gonna be, I think, remains key,
but also talking up the successes,
and how do we, and then they're happening,
I just don't think that peopleknow about them actually, so.
Anyway, sharing the things that
are going beyond business as usual,
that are getting us to where we want to go

(31:07):
in terms of net zero andnature positive and all this.
I guess that's partly what I'm hoping
to do with the Net Zero Project.
You actually start to, in many ways,
to find a new, better normal,
meaning that we all feel
like we can get excited about it,
because I think that's, in many ways,
going to be part of it.
And then it's gonna be around push.
I mean, I really do think government
has a really big role to play here,
and government cares a huge amount

(31:30):
about what industry thinks.
And I think there needs
to be a really clear voiceto government around what,
I mean, in many ways,it's not fair to industry
that the worst performers get to succeed
because the regulationsdon't actually support
the best performers.
So we actually need industries
that actually ask anddemand that government

(31:53):
sets regulation that getsus where we need to go,
and actually rewardsthe people in this room
who are doing good stuff,
and actually rewardsthose kinds of projects.
I think if we do those things,
like, you know, I keepcoming back to this fact
that we have the technology,
we know what to do, andnow it's just a way of,

(32:16):
how do we ramp that up, and inspire,
and actually collaborate,
but also actually start to join up
some of those things for what hopefully,
and in fact must be a decade that
is totally different,where we actually start
to totally reimagine how wedo the built environment,
how we design our cities.
Because that, as I said at the start,

(32:38):
that's just some of the key changes,
some of the change thatwe can do right now.
It's exciting, but it's going to require
a huge push from everybody asking
for something that is different.
- Thank you.
Karla?
- This is an opportunity
for public-private partnership,
so that we go beyond collaboration.
We can partner.
We can all bring somethingdifferent to the table.

(33:01):
I'm gonna throw it out there
and say that architects can make
the ordinary extraordinary. (laughs)
But it's about addinga bit of fun to this.
It's hard work.
It's complex.
There are a lot of many, as Mark said,
boring steps that need to be in process.
However, there's so much funto be had in that process,

(33:23):
and we need to envisagewhat we want the future
that we want to be a part of.
What does that look like?
And I know a lot of people,
they refer back to their meaning
being about their children,
and that is, for somepeople, their driver.
But this isn't just for our children.
It's gonna impact us this decade.
So, it's about, what is your,

(33:43):
what do you envisagethe world to look like?
What do you envisage yourneighbourhood, your community?
What do you envisage being,
you know, the base minimum being?
Because there will be some people where,
because they have so much money,
they'll continue to livein a manner that they will,
and they will be able to adapt.
But there will be many people
that won't be able to adapt,

(34:04):
and if we're not being able to lift them
up as a part of the community,
we are failing still.
So, it's about everybodygetting there together,
being creative, you know,being brave, being human,
which I think we alllearnt from the pandemic.
That was a bit of a,
we were able to be a little bit
more vulnerable with each other,

(34:25):
so let's run with that,and achieve the vision.
I think that's it.
- Well, thank you to both of you
for being part of thisconversation right the way through,
and a big thank you to those of you
who were comfortable to come forward
and take a seat and make some comments.

(34:45):
A big thanks, of course, toall of you for coming along.
I believe this event booked out
within a matter of hours,
which is, you know, reallytestimony to the concept.
So well done to Hassell for hosting us
and putting this forward.
I'm sure, you know, it's gonna be one
of the highlights of Perth Design Week.
I guess the last comment that

(35:05):
I'll make before closing is,
just picking up on that point that
Brad made in his closing words,
which is around, we havea unique opportunity,
I think, right now,
and certainly between nowand the end of the year,
when the SERS process concludes,
as the state government, you know,

(35:26):
continue to work throughtheir consultation process
for setting these targetsthat will be legislated
on how we make our wayto net zero and beyond.
For the thought leaders,
of which many are in this room,
can contribute to raising the bar
and the standard of conversation

(35:46):
that is happening with industryand the wider community.
And it's about process of normalising
is the behavioural scienceterm in this aspect,
is that we're moving away from the idea
of having exemplars.
They are important.
They raise awareness.
They excite people.
Clients, you know, love exemplars.

(36:08):
But we need to normalise this,
and have it as part of aconversation that people get.
We have to move beyondlanguage of just net zero,
because it is rapidly becoming a buzz term
that no one quite understands,
but it's okay, net zero's sorted,
so we've got a positive future.
We have multiplechallenges in front of us.
Obviously, the biodiversity challenge,

(36:29):
the toxicity and persistent materials
and chemicals challenge, andof course climate change,
which is arguably themost urgent at the moment.
And so, to really address all of those,
design is about doing things better,
and I think as was pointedout on a couple of occasions,
designers need to do more than just focus
on their own projects.

(36:50):
They need to work together,
and I think collectively,we have a huge role to play.
(audience applauding)(gentle music)

(37:21):
- It was really encouraging to see
and hear about the connections being made
between setting targets, measuring impact,
and the responsibility to deliver
aspirations at project level.
We know that the process isn't easy
and in some places quitecomplex and challenging,
but there are obvious opportunities
for us all to worktogether in an environment
that allows for creativeand brave partnerships,

(37:44):
where we can challenge our priorities
and our measures for success.
We all want to be part of the solution
that empowers us to live and thrive
with country and its creatures.
In the time since the event,
the Perth office has beenenergised by the conversations
that have continued.
Hassell's Sustainability Framework
gives permission to our designers

(38:05):
to think systemically andto explore with clients
and partners what it meansto design regeneratively.
It also helps them to see the role
they play in creating and realising
the vision of a net zero Perth.
There are so many good stories to come.
Thanks again to our MC, Josh Byrne,
to everyone who contributedto the conversation,

(38:26):
and the many peopleworking behind the scenes
to create this event.
And thank you to you, our listeners.
We know you're as passionate
about the role design playsin creating a beautiful,
resilient and inclusive future as we are.
I'm Karla Fox-Reynolds.
You've been listening to anepisode of "Hassell Talks."
Follow, rate and review us.

(38:47):
We love to hear your feedback,
and your reviews help otherpeople find our podcast.
This episode was produced bySiaw Chai and Prue Vincent.