October 11, 2022 • 17 mins
"What you create as an organisation has to be something that pushes the boundaries everywhere," said Co-Director of Danjoo Koorliny, Carol Innes AM to a gathering of designers, government representatives clients and First Nations collaborators.
This gathering, as part of Hassell's Reconciliation Action Plan (RAP) journey aimed to listen and learn from First Nations partners better ways to engage on projects. The resulting conversation was rich, provocative and full of lessons, and in this episode of Hassell Talks we are sharing an edited recording of that conversation, because the insights shared by Dr Richard Walley OAM, Karen Jacobs and Carol Innes AM, will resonate beyond our practice.
This episode was recorded on Whadjuk Country with additional production on Wurundjeri Woi-Wurrung land. Recording by Periscope Pictures.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(soft music)
- From Global Design Practice Hassell,
this is Hassell Talks,a podcast series looking
at a changing and complexworld, and the opportunities
for design to create abetter place for everyone.
It's a series that isunshamedly optimistic
about creating a beautiful,inclusive and resilient future.
(00:24):
I'm Peter Dean, designprincipal at Hassell
and I'm recording this on Whadjuk country,
the land of the Nyoongar nation
in the city known asPerth, Western Australia.
As is our practise, Ioffer and pay my respects
to the Whadjuk elders, pastand present, to the knowledge,
and ongoing custodianship ofthis land, and the lessons they
(00:44):
and other First Nationspeople across Australia
and the world share.
For a long time, Hassellhave have been thinking a lot
about what happens whenpeople come together,
whether it's through designingfor memorable experiences
in our cities, the latest thinking
on bringing people back to workplaces,
creating diverse and resilient communities
(01:05):
through housing, andeven how to make women
and girls feel safer in public spaces.
To bring people together well,
to be able to create placesthey include, inspire,
and support people, we needto reflect on our past.
How have we designed places people love?
Where have we got it right?
(01:27):
But more importantly, wherecould we improve on things?
And that includes how we have worked
with First Nations people on our projects.
You're about to listento an edited recording
of a conversation we held
with some of our FirstNations collaborators,
Western Australian governmentrepresentatives, clients,
and our key designers.
We brought this group ofpeople together as part
(01:48):
of our reflection and learning stage
of our reconciliation action plan or RAP.
And there's some linksand other information
in the show notes about what a RAP is,
as well as other termsused in this episode.
The dialogue proved to beincredibly rich and broad ranging
and we wanted to share partsof it with you, our listeners.
(02:08):
We know there is so muchto learn and act upon
to create better outcomesfor First Nations people
and culture so we cancontinue to walk together.
I'll now hand over tomy colleague, Peter Lee,
who opened the conversation,
and Nyoongar elder, Dr. Richard Walley
for a welcome to country.
I hope you enjoy the episode.
(02:29):
- My name's Peter Lee.
I'm a principal of Hassell.
I want to acknowledge the Whadjuk people,
the Nyoongar nationwhose land we meet today
and pay my respects to elderspast, present and emerging,
and thank them for theirstewardship of the lands,
the seas and for the richculture of arts, song, dance,
language and stories.
Hassell's developing a reconciliation plan
(02:49):
and we want our RAP to beboth meaningful and practical,
and we want to hear from you about things
that we are doing well,what we can do better,
and if we're missing anyvital pieces of the puzzle.
I believe that our consultation process
has become second naturewith most of our people
and it has had a wonderfuleffect on the quality
and intelligence of our work.
However, as with mostthings, we have much to learn
(03:11):
and a long way to go to truly partner
with our Aboriginal friends.
Please be very honest inyour comments to us today.
We can really only learn ifyou're as open as possible
and in fact, understand wherewe've not done things well
is more important than
where we have done things really well.
So thanks again for your help.
I'm very happy to handover now to our friend,
Richard Walley, to giveus a welcome to country.
(03:35):
- Thanks, Peter.
Well, (speaks in foreign language).
(03:57):
So may the good spiritkeep us all safe here.
Traditionally of courseis known as Boorloo,
it's one of the many places
where the swamps were around this region.
It's a place of meeting andgathering and telling stories.
So today I asked goodspirit to watch over us
in this sacred and spiritual place,
(04:19):
and when it's completed,take us all safely home
at the end of the day.
I'm listening for Hassell to say,
"We've got a position that we want offer."
I'm listening for,"We've got these projects
and it'd be fantastic tohave a project manager
to come on as a culturalconsultant, as a project manager."
And I understand the goodwill's there.
(04:41):
There's nothing wrong with goodwill.
It's how challenge to be able to present
but to be invited to present
'cause we are not going to knockon doors and says you need.
But conversation like this are fantastic,
that this pricks theconsciousness in saying,
"Do Aboriginal peoplehave strategic plans?"
We have strategic plansinto our DNA system.
(05:03):
Our plans start before we are born.
Our plan is such sophisticationthat you can't marry someone
from your family tillthe sixth generations.
That's genetics.
The sixth seasons process weuse from fertility, incubation,
birth, childhood, adolescent to adults
is the strategic business plan.
You talk about stuff beforeyou put your pre-feasibilities
(05:27):
into your pre-feasibilities,
and once you get the tickoff, that's your birth.
Then you got your contracts, adolescence.
You built a childhood, built adolescence,
up functioning as adult.
When you're fully functioning, you think
about how you're gonnareinvent your fertility.
So we've had those structures in our DNA
(05:47):
and what we've done is we'vebeen able to implement them
over the normal strategic planning,
but we've never been hadthe capacity to manage
or oversee the implementationof that planning
through the projects.
We've always been the mendicants come
please, can we participate?
(06:07):
And there's always beengatekeepers between us
and the decision makers.
If you look at what anycompany or organisation build,
they build what they call a culture.
We want to build a culture in our company.
We want to build aculture in our operations.
A culture is the interactionbetween the collective
so that the collective have this feeling
(06:29):
and not the dominant up the top saying,
"This is what I willdictate what will happen."
So to have a culture, you haveto have a homogenous connect.
Aboriginal people, we were the forerunners
in developing that.
We had a far greater culturetoday and in the past
than any other society that ever existed.
But that's not taken into the context
(06:50):
of how do we incorporate into a body
or a business and organisation?
That culture is integrated,
is a sophisticated series of codes.
Now in the Western world,you understand the codes.
Your engineering is based on codes.
The strategic plans is based on the codes,
(07:12):
critical paths of codes.
We understand those, but ourcode were existed up here.
We did not put them down so they were easy
to interpret by others.
You had to absorb the code.
So the codes are, alphabets are code.
You learn the alphabet, you'dbe able to write in them,
but you can't take thatalphabet in the English code,
(07:35):
in the English alphabet.
You can use the Englishwords to write in French,
but it's completely different.
You try to translate thatcode into that other code.
So what they're doing here is the same,
Aboriginal people have one code. We don't.
We have many interpretations too.
So don't expect the (indistinct)
(07:56):
to understand the same writing.
We may have the same letters,
which is a differentinterpretation and pronunciation.
It is specific.
So no disrespect to people in Perth,
this is Whadjuk Boorloo country.
It may be the capital for the state,
but it always starts as Boorloo,
and you can't change that.
(08:18):
- Karen Jacobs, the owner ofIndigenous Economic Solutions.
Because Perth is completely encompassed
within one language group,which is really significant.
You can go to some ofthe other capital cities
around Australia and there'soften two language groups
that encroaching on the capital cities.
So that causes some real friction then
as to who do you listen to, andwho has the strongest voice.
(08:42):
But here in Whadjuk country,it's about portraying
what is significant about Whadjuk people
and Whadjuk country and Whadjuk practises
and Whadjuk principles,
that are really quitesignificant within here.
And plus, we had the ancient city
which sits right here called Boorloo.
You know, and I often saythat what we're doing today
(09:03):
has only evolved what our practise was
for 1,000 years prior to colonisation.
So it's just understandingthe significance of that
and not asking us tocompromise on certain projects.
We understand that the museum has
to portray a lot of stories,
a lot of histories,
(09:23):
and that's what it's about.
And we understand there arelayers in history as well
that need to be presented.
We're not against that, andlooking at the paradigms
and also bringing other people's story in
because that's what we knowthat a museum's all about.
But there are other significant projects
where we're being dictatedto that we have to compromise
and take into consideration how this links
(09:45):
to other parts of the state.
I mean, all of a sudden we just switch off
and actually don't want to be in the room.
- So, Peter Dean, designprincipal at Hassell.
Yeah, I mean, it's a real challenge.
We faced that on the stadium, you know,
in terms of it's very muchwas overtly a Whadjuk country.
(10:06):
Everybody fully understood that
and it was a statewide project
and the brief was to reflectall of West Australia.
Architecturally, landscape-wise,
we think we visually kind of did that,
but there were mistakes.
It's unfortunate, but I thinkwe learnt from that process
in terms of actuallyhow we actually get on.
We went through what wethought was the right process,
but it's difficult toget it right every time.
(10:26):
You're never gonna get itright 100% of the time.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I think the riskis now not doing it.
- Yeah.- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- And I've been here less than20 years, but it's changed.
It was originally perceivedto be a risk to engage.
Now, I think it's the opposite way around
if you don't engage-- Okay, it was like-
- You're gonna lose out.- You're going
to hold up the process.
(10:49):
- I'm Carol Innes, and I'mcurrently working at UWA
with the Centre for Social Impact
and co-chair reconciliation with WA.
You need to understand the journey
of what you want theengagement to be as well.
When you write a brief that has to include
Aboriginal people to have aconnect or a sense of place,
(11:11):
they need to understand what the sense
of place is themselves.
And you know, even whenyou're bringing internationals
into our place, they need to be informed
about our place andunderstand that as well.
I think that's whatwe've got to look at is
sometimes we are bringing people together
in a conversation to makethe meeting more focused
before we even get to the meeting.
(11:31):
- Mm.
- You know, so that peopleare feeling a lot of that.
So the untold story in alot of this stuff as well,
it's not just who buildsand how you build it,
but when you win this, well,
what have been your learningjourney from working
with Aboriginal people?
That's what's we've got tosee, the better part of that.
This city and this place shut us all out.
(11:54):
What you create as an organisationis got to be something
that pushes the boundaries everywhere.
Think about all the things you've done.
How did you get to that point?
What do you need to do better, you know,
when you're talking aboutthis RAP conversation,
and who needs this?
Not just the people workingon the bid on the project,
what does your organisation need?
(12:17):
You know, that's the otherpart of this conversation too,
is what does the organisation need?
What do we need to doto shape this foundation
to ensure that Aboriginalpeople, stories can be told?
And most of the buildingsover the last few years,
there's been a big changein how we recognise that.
So, you know, building in that space,
(12:37):
that the cultural practisestuff has come very powerfully
through what we've been doing.
And Richard's has beeninvolved with a lot of it.
Karen has been involved withthat, you know, the cleansing
of the land before building's done.
All of that has becomea part of the process.
So don't forget that, makethose a part of the journey.
If we are open to that cultural practise
(12:59):
of cleansing country,you know, having that,
it's really importantjourney because I think about
where they all were, thosesites and these places
that we're in, it's healingthe building of the part
of the hurt and things.
So that make that a big partof your attribution to that.
(13:20):
I mean, when we did the Wirin' Statue,
that was very powerful.
This young fellow and I didn't realise
that he was Aboriginal, but he had tears
in his eyes around the process.
And I'll never forget that
because it was like he wasletting go of something
'cause they made it, you see?
(13:42):
And, but you know, people think,
"Oh, let's head for the project."
All of them stood around it.
And then when we get to like Dharug people
who built the (indistinct)they went through
cultural awareness trainings.
So all the people wentthrough cultural awareness.
The day that it got delivered to site
(14:02):
and coming off on the crane
and we were all on onepoint with the fire going.
And then you see thismovement of high viz people
just making their wayto a very visible space
to see it all happen, theywere all out, didn't they?
They all came out and theywere standing in this, like,
just watching this happen off the crane
and even the smoking thatwas done, that something.
(14:26):
When I think about the RAP andthe journey you are investing
in the people, the peoplechange for this stuff,
in giving opportunities toout mob is a big part of this.
And it's more than just your projects.
If you can bring, you know,getting staff in at any point,
you know, that's what we wanna see.
(14:48):
- Steve Wilson, I'm heading upthe One The Esplanade project
down at Elizabeth Quay for Chevron.
Our first meeting I think, was one
of our most significant meetings, Carol,
where I distinctly remember Carol saying,
"Steve, this is not aboutartwork, this is about respect."
And I went away from that meeting
(15:10):
and really thought about that a lot.
And I think that everythingthat we're talking about here,
we're not doing this becausewe want to tick a box.
It is about respect andif it's about respect,
(15:30):
then that means the outcome
can be a whole range of things, right?
It's not about artwork, it'snot about landscape design.
It's not about, you know,calling your meeting rooms
Aboriginal names or whatever.
It's actually about awhole process of respect.
(15:52):
- You're already blessed.
You're blessed 'cause you've got people
who got our outcomes.
So you've already gotoutcomes that you can measure.
So Hassell's have got outcomes.
You don't need a RAP to saythat we're gonna improve
what we're doing.
You want to reflect onwhat you're already doing
and share that with everyone else.
(16:12):
But the challenge with Hassell's
and your internal challenge say,
"How far up the decision, like,
can we get Aboriginal people?"
Because this is gonna be goodbusiness for us in the future.
And whether that's traineeships,
mentorships, they become very important.
(16:36):
- Please carry on the conversation
and that's been great to share.
- Thank you.- Thank you.
- Thank you.- Thank you.
- Hassell will be sharingmore about our RAP
as well as other stories
from projects in up and coming episodes.
Thanks to all our guests, inparticular, Dr. Richard Walley,
Carol Innes and Karen Jacobswho shared personal insights
(16:57):
with us today.
Thanks also to DougPort, Abigail Humphreys
and the team at PeriscopePictures for arranging
and capturing the panel discussionfor us to use internally
and to share with you today.
(soft music)
(soft music)
- From Global Design Practice Hassell,
this is Hassell Talks,a podcast series looking
at a changing and complexworld, and the opportunities
for design to create abetter place for everyone.
It's a series that isunshamedly optimistic
about creating a beautiful,inclusive and resilient future.
(00:24):
I'm Peter Dean, designprincipal at Hassell
and I'm recording this on Whadjuk country,
the land of the Nyoongar nation
in the city known asPerth, Western Australia.
As is our practise, Ioffer and pay my respects
to the Whadjuk elders, pastand present, to the knowledge,
and ongoing custodianship ofthis land, and the lessons they
(00:44):
and other First Nationspeople across Australia
and the world share.
For a long time, Hassellhave have been thinking a lot
about what happens whenpeople come together,
whether it's through designingfor memorable experiences
in our cities, the latest thinking
on bringing people back to workplaces,
creating diverse and resilient communities
(01:05):
through housing, andeven how to make women
and girls feel safer in public spaces.
To bring people together well,
to be able to create placesthey include, inspire,
and support people, we needto reflect on our past.
How have we designed places people love?
Where have we got it right?
(01:27):
But more importantly, wherecould we improve on things?
And that includes how we have worked
with First Nations people on our projects.
You're about to listento an edited recording
of a conversation we held
with some of our FirstNations collaborators,
Western Australian governmentrepresentatives, clients,
and our key designers.
We brought this group ofpeople together as part
(01:48):
of our reflection and learning stage
of our reconciliation action plan or RAP.
And there's some linksand other information
in the show notes about what a RAP is,
as well as other termsused in this episode.
The dialogue proved to beincredibly rich and broad ranging
and we wanted to share partsof it with you, our listeners.
(02:08):
We know there is so muchto learn and act upon
to create better outcomesfor First Nations people
and culture so we cancontinue to walk together.
I'll now hand over tomy colleague, Peter Lee,
who opened the conversation,
and Nyoongar elder, Dr. Richard Walley
for a welcome to country.
I hope you enjoy the episode.
(02:29):
- My name's Peter Lee.
I'm a principal of Hassell.
I want to acknowledge the Whadjuk people,
the Nyoongar nationwhose land we meet today
and pay my respects to elderspast, present and emerging,
and thank them for theirstewardship of the lands,
the seas and for the richculture of arts, song, dance,
language and stories.
Hassell's developing a reconciliation plan
(02:49):
and we want our RAP to beboth meaningful and practical,
and we want to hear from you about things
that we are doing well,what we can do better,
and if we're missing anyvital pieces of the puzzle.
I believe that our consultation process
has become second naturewith most of our people
and it has had a wonderfuleffect on the quality
and intelligence of our work.
However, as with mostthings, we have much to learn
(03:11):
and a long way to go to truly partner
with our Aboriginal friends.
Please be very honest inyour comments to us today.
We can really only learn ifyou're as open as possible
and in fact, understand wherewe've not done things well
is more important than
where we have done things really well.
So thanks again for your help.
I'm very happy to handover now to our friend,
Richard Walley, to giveus a welcome to country.
(03:35):
- Thanks, Peter.
Well, (speaks in foreign language).
(03:57):
So may the good spiritkeep us all safe here.
Traditionally of courseis known as Boorloo,
it's one of the many places
where the swamps were around this region.
It's a place of meeting andgathering and telling stories.
So today I asked goodspirit to watch over us
in this sacred and spiritual place,
(04:19):
and when it's completed,take us all safely home
at the end of the day.
I'm listening for Hassell to say,
"We've got a position that we want offer."
I'm listening for,"We've got these projects
and it'd be fantastic tohave a project manager
to come on as a culturalconsultant, as a project manager."
And I understand the goodwill's there.
(04:41):
There's nothing wrong with goodwill.
It's how challenge to be able to present
but to be invited to present
'cause we are not going to knockon doors and says you need.
But conversation like this are fantastic,
that this pricks theconsciousness in saying,
"Do Aboriginal peoplehave strategic plans?"
We have strategic plansinto our DNA system.
(05:03):
Our plans start before we are born.
Our plan is such sophisticationthat you can't marry someone
from your family tillthe sixth generations.
That's genetics.
The sixth seasons process weuse from fertility, incubation,
birth, childhood, adolescent to adults
is the strategic business plan.
You talk about stuff beforeyou put your pre-feasibilities
(05:27):
into your pre-feasibilities,
and once you get the tickoff, that's your birth.
Then you got your contracts, adolescence.
You built a childhood, built adolescence,
up functioning as adult.
When you're fully functioning, you think
about how you're gonnareinvent your fertility.
So we've had those structures in our DNA
(05:47):
and what we've done is we'vebeen able to implement them
over the normal strategic planning,
but we've never been hadthe capacity to manage
or oversee the implementationof that planning
through the projects.
We've always been the mendicants come
please, can we participate?
(06:07):
And there's always beengatekeepers between us
and the decision makers.
If you look at what anycompany or organisation build,
they build what they call a culture.
We want to build a culture in our company.
We want to build aculture in our operations.
A culture is the interactionbetween the collective
so that the collective have this feeling
(06:29):
and not the dominant up the top saying,
"This is what I willdictate what will happen."
So to have a culture, you haveto have a homogenous connect.
Aboriginal people, we were the forerunners
in developing that.
We had a far greater culturetoday and in the past
than any other society that ever existed.
But that's not taken into the context
(06:50):
of how do we incorporate into a body
or a business and organisation?
That culture is integrated,
is a sophisticated series of codes.
Now in the Western world,you understand the codes.
Your engineering is based on codes.
The strategic plans is based on the codes,
(07:12):
critical paths of codes.
We understand those, but ourcode were existed up here.
We did not put them down so they were easy
to interpret by others.
You had to absorb the code.
So the codes are, alphabets are code.
You learn the alphabet, you'dbe able to write in them,
but you can't take thatalphabet in the English code,
(07:35):
in the English alphabet.
You can use the Englishwords to write in French,
but it's completely different.
You try to translate thatcode into that other code.
So what they're doing here is the same,
Aboriginal people have one code. We don't.
We have many interpretations too.
So don't expect the (indistinct)
(07:56):
to understand the same writing.
We may have the same letters,
which is a differentinterpretation and pronunciation.
It is specific.
So no disrespect to people in Perth,
this is Whadjuk Boorloo country.
It may be the capital for the state,
but it always starts as Boorloo,
and you can't change that.
(08:18):
- Karen Jacobs, the owner ofIndigenous Economic Solutions.
Because Perth is completely encompassed
within one language group,which is really significant.
You can go to some ofthe other capital cities
around Australia and there'soften two language groups
that encroaching on the capital cities.
So that causes some real friction then
as to who do you listen to, andwho has the strongest voice.
(08:42):
But here in Whadjuk country,it's about portraying
what is significant about Whadjuk people
and Whadjuk country and Whadjuk practises
and Whadjuk principles,
that are really quitesignificant within here.
And plus, we had the ancient city
which sits right here called Boorloo.
You know, and I often saythat what we're doing today
(09:03):
has only evolved what our practise was
for 1,000 years prior to colonisation.
So it's just understandingthe significance of that
and not asking us tocompromise on certain projects.
We understand that the museum has
to portray a lot of stories,
a lot of histories,
(09:23):
and that's what it's about.
And we understand there arelayers in history as well
that need to be presented.
We're not against that, andlooking at the paradigms
and also bringing other people's story in
because that's what we knowthat a museum's all about.
But there are other significant projects
where we're being dictatedto that we have to compromise
and take into consideration how this links
(09:45):
to other parts of the state.
I mean, all of a sudden we just switch off
and actually don't want to be in the room.
- So, Peter Dean, designprincipal at Hassell.
Yeah, I mean, it's a real challenge.
We faced that on the stadium, you know,
in terms of it's very muchwas overtly a Whadjuk country.
(10:06):
Everybody fully understood that
and it was a statewide project
and the brief was to reflectall of West Australia.
Architecturally, landscape-wise,
we think we visually kind of did that,
but there were mistakes.
It's unfortunate, but I thinkwe learnt from that process
in terms of actuallyhow we actually get on.
We went through what wethought was the right process,
but it's difficult toget it right every time.
(10:26):
You're never gonna get itright 100% of the time.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I think the riskis now not doing it.
- Yeah.- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- And I've been here less than20 years, but it's changed.
It was originally perceivedto be a risk to engage.
Now, I think it's the opposite way around
if you don't engage-- Okay, it was like-
- You're gonna lose out.- You're going
to hold up the process.
(10:49):
- I'm Carol Innes, and I'mcurrently working at UWA
with the Centre for Social Impact
and co-chair reconciliation with WA.
You need to understand the journey
of what you want theengagement to be as well.
When you write a brief that has to include
Aboriginal people to have aconnect or a sense of place,
(11:11):
they need to understand what the sense
of place is themselves.
And you know, even whenyou're bringing internationals
into our place, they need to be informed
about our place andunderstand that as well.
I think that's whatwe've got to look at is
sometimes we are bringing people together
in a conversation to makethe meeting more focused
before we even get to the meeting.
(11:31):
- Mm.
- You know, so that peopleare feeling a lot of that.
So the untold story in alot of this stuff as well,
it's not just who buildsand how you build it,
but when you win this, well,
what have been your learningjourney from working
with Aboriginal people?
That's what's we've got tosee, the better part of that.
This city and this place shut us all out.
(11:54):
What you create as an organisationis got to be something
that pushes the boundaries everywhere.
Think about all the things you've done.
How did you get to that point?
What do you need to do better, you know,
when you're talking aboutthis RAP conversation,
and who needs this?
Not just the people workingon the bid on the project,
what does your organisation need?
(12:17):
You know, that's the otherpart of this conversation too,
is what does the organisation need?
What do we need to doto shape this foundation
to ensure that Aboriginalpeople, stories can be told?
And most of the buildingsover the last few years,
there's been a big changein how we recognise that.
So, you know, building in that space,
(12:37):
that the cultural practisestuff has come very powerfully
through what we've been doing.
And Richard's has beeninvolved with a lot of it.
Karen has been involved withthat, you know, the cleansing
of the land before building's done.
All of that has becomea part of the process.
So don't forget that, makethose a part of the journey.
If we are open to that cultural practise
(12:59):
of cleansing country,you know, having that,
it's really importantjourney because I think about
where they all were, thosesites and these places
that we're in, it's healingthe building of the part
of the hurt and things.
So that make that a big partof your attribution to that.
(13:20):
I mean, when we did the Wirin' Statue,
that was very powerful.
This young fellow and I didn't realise
that he was Aboriginal, but he had tears
in his eyes around the process.
And I'll never forget that
because it was like he wasletting go of something
'cause they made it, you see?
(13:42):
And, but you know, people think,
"Oh, let's head for the project."
All of them stood around it.
And then when we get to like Dharug people
who built the (indistinct)they went through
cultural awareness trainings.
So all the people wentthrough cultural awareness.
The day that it got delivered to site
(14:02):
and coming off on the crane
and we were all on onepoint with the fire going.
And then you see thismovement of high viz people
just making their wayto a very visible space
to see it all happen, theywere all out, didn't they?
They all came out and theywere standing in this, like,
just watching this happen off the crane
and even the smoking thatwas done, that something.
(14:26):
When I think about the RAP andthe journey you are investing
in the people, the peoplechange for this stuff,
in giving opportunities toout mob is a big part of this.
And it's more than just your projects.
If you can bring, you know,getting staff in at any point,
you know, that's what we wanna see.
(14:48):
- Steve Wilson, I'm heading upthe One The Esplanade project
down at Elizabeth Quay for Chevron.
Our first meeting I think, was one
of our most significant meetings, Carol,
where I distinctly remember Carol saying,
"Steve, this is not aboutartwork, this is about respect."
And I went away from that meeting
(15:10):
and really thought about that a lot.
And I think that everythingthat we're talking about here,
we're not doing this becausewe want to tick a box.
It is about respect andif it's about respect,
(15:30):
then that means the outcome
can be a whole range of things, right?
It's not about artwork, it'snot about landscape design.
It's not about, you know,calling your meeting rooms
Aboriginal names or whatever.
It's actually about awhole process of respect.
(15:52):
- You're already blessed.
You're blessed 'cause you've got people
who got our outcomes.
So you've already gotoutcomes that you can measure.
So Hassell's have got outcomes.
You don't need a RAP to saythat we're gonna improve
what we're doing.
You want to reflect onwhat you're already doing
and share that with everyone else.
(16:12):
But the challenge with Hassell's
and your internal challenge say,
"How far up the decision, like,
can we get Aboriginal people?"
Because this is gonna be goodbusiness for us in the future.
And whether that's traineeships,
mentorships, they become very important.
(16:36):
- Please carry on the conversation
and that's been great to share.
- Thank you.- Thank you.
- Thank you.- Thank you.
- Hassell will be sharingmore about our RAP
as well as other stories
from projects in up and coming episodes.
Thanks to all our guests, inparticular, Dr. Richard Walley,
Carol Innes and Karen Jacobswho shared personal insights
(16:57):
with us today.
Thanks also to DougPort, Abigail Humphreys
and the team at PeriscopePictures for arranging
and capturing the panel discussionfor us to use internally
and to share with you today.
(soft music)
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