July 2, 2025 • 22 mins
"They knew what they were doing" - five words that cloak inhumanity in the disguise of justice. Every time I hear this phrase used to dismiss the suffering of immigrants caught in our broken system, something inside me recoils. Not just because it's callous, but because it's incomplete.
Today's episode cuts through the rhetoric to expose one of the most persistent and harmful myths about immigration. Drawing from my personal journey through the labyrinthine process of "legal" immigration as a child separated from my parents, I invite listeners into the chaotic reality of endless paperwork, bureaucratic obstacles, and impossible choices that define our immigration system. This isn't about politics - it's about policies that fail human beings.
I share the harrowing story of Mark Daniel Lyttle, a US citizen with bipolar disorder who was wrongfully deported to Mexico simply because of how he looked. For 125 days, he wandered homeless through Latin America until someone finally helped him return home. His story isn't an anomaly - it's a devastating glimpse into what happens when enforcement trumps humanity, when paperwork matters more than people.
The truth? Being undocumented is not a crime - it's a civil violation, like a parking ticket. Over 70% of people in ICE custody have no criminal record whatsoever. Yet our rhetoric criminalizes their very existence, giving permission to stop seeing immigrants as fellow human beings worthy of dignity and basic rights. This dehumanization doesn't just hurt the undocumented - it threatens all of us. Because once a system gets comfortable deciding who deserves rights and who doesn't, that list only expands.
Join me in asking better questions: Why did we build a system where someone's worth depends on a document? Why are we okay with punishing people for seeking safety and opportunity? And what might happen if we remembered that before anyone is documented or undocumented, they are human - just like us?
Want to dig deeper?
Data & Reports:
- “Nearly half of ICE detainees have no criminal record; 71.7% as of June 15, 2025”
- “Only ~8% of detainees
If today’s episode hit you in the chest the way it hit me, don’t just walk away—walk toward something that reflects you.
Subscribe to the podcast, hit that YouTube channel for the behind-the-scenes, and if you’re ready to read a story about what it really means to come home to yourself—
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https://haveacupofjohanny.com/product/the-ordinary-bruja-book-one-of-las-cerradoras-series-j-e-ortega/
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If you’ve ever felt “too much,” “not enough,” or like you don’t fit anywhere, you’re exactly who this story was written for.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh we could, we could fly.
Welcome back to have a Cup ofJohnny.
This season isn't abouthustling harder.
It's about coming home toyourself, to your voice, to your
breath, to the quiet truth thatyou're still here and you're
not starting over.
You're starting again.
(00:21):
This is your space to reflect,reset and remember who we tell
you.
So pour your cafecito and let'sbegin.
Have you ever heard someone saythey knew what they were doing?
They broke the law, so theydeserve whatever happens to them
(00:45):
.
Yeah, me too.
And every time I hear it,something inside of me just
recoils, because I know thatsentence isn't just cold, it's
incomplete.
Today I want to talk to youabout that sentence, about what
(01:06):
it leaves out, about thefamilies, the fear, the
paperwork, the impossiblechoices, and about the myth that
there's some perfect, cleanline between good immigrant and
a bad immigrant.
Welcome y'all, welcome to havea Cup of Joannie.
(01:27):
I am Joah, and this month weare cutting through the noise
and getting to the roots.
This is episode one of our Julyseries Debunking Immigration,
and today we're starting withone of the most persistent lies
in the book.
They knew what they were doing.
Now I want to start withsomething personal.
(01:53):
There was a time in my lifewhen I was just floating, y'all
heard my immigration story andlast month I was a child
separated from my parentsbecause of a technicality in
documents, like I explained,depending on administration
changes on either certainpaperwork, that certain
(02:16):
paperwork then required a seal,so we had to go to another
office to get a seal.
And guess what, before we turnin that paperwork, I needed a
new physical, because then thelast one was about to expire
(02:37):
before we can process thepaperwork.
You see what I'm saying, andall of these things took a lot
of money, it took a lot of timeand it took a lot of back and
forth as well, from where welive to the various offices in
Santo Domingo, chaotic, and Itry to explain that to people
(03:08):
who have no concept ofimmigration, but then, at the
same token, these same peoplesometimes have a whole opinion
on it without the experience ofactually living through the
bureaucratic tape between twocountries.
You know, trying to immigratefrom one to another and do it in
the quote-unquote legal wayBest thing that I can think of
(03:29):
to compare it to is kind of liketrying to traverse an ocean,
knowing that the ocean at timeswill be great and in other times
will be not so great.
The waters may be choppy oneday, maybe calm the next day, so
it really just depends when youset out on your boat to go from
(03:53):
point A to point B and that'sthe best way that I can equate
this process of doing it thelegal way you may get lucky
where you time it just right andthere are no changes in
anything between the twocountries, and then things may
go as smooth as they can.
(04:15):
Murphy will always have a rolein here.
Something will always happen asit does in life, but usually
that's when it's smooth sailing.
You may come into your journeyand have to do it when the
waters are really choppy andthat is gonna suck because it's
gonna take away a lot of yourtime, a lot of your resources.
(04:38):
And if halfway through you runout of those resources, say you
just you're done.
You know you're done.
You have to go and regroup oryou have to do it another way.
And for years I was living inthis, in-between, in this, going
back and forth with my grandmaand with my sister to all these
(04:59):
offices, because I had to bepresent, even though I was a
child, as the person requesting.
You see what I'm saying.
So I lived through this and noone seemed to think that that
was a problem.
You know, it's just the waythat it is right.
No one had an issue.
It was just me and my sistergetting caught in the legal
(05:21):
process, you know, going backand forth, and it's just
everybody just shrugging and waslike, well, you know, that's
just how it is and that's how itwill continue to be until we
actually make an attempt to makethis better for everyone
(05:42):
involved.
You see what I'm saying, and Ijust want to like make a note,
before we go into this theme andinto this episode, to know that
this is not about either orparty.
It's not about that.
It's about the policy and theprocedure in place that makes it
(06:03):
almost impossible for anyone totry to do it the right way or
to get after and reach the goalof doing it the right way.
That's what I'm talking abouthere.
(06:27):
So it really that has no playin this argument.
It really is just about makingeffective and efficient policies
.
People that are struggling arefacing death.
Where they are at, they canseek solace in new soil in an
(06:50):
efficient way.
That's what this is about.
Now you heard my story.
I'm going to tell you aboutthis guy called Mark Daniel
Little.
Mark was born in North Carolina, a US citizen diagnosed with
bipolar disorder.
In 2008, he was arrested and,instead of getting support, he
(07:15):
was funneled into ICE custodyand ICE assumed he was Mexican
because of the way that helooked.
However, no passport, nohearing, no lawyer, just a
one-way ticket to Reynosa.
Now here's the kicker.
Mark is a US citizen.
He didn't speak Spanish.
(07:36):
He had no family in Mexico.
He wandered through LatinAmerica, homeless, scarred,
barely surviving for 125 days,folks, until someone helped them
get home.
You hear that 125 days, untilsomeone helped them get home.
(07:57):
What did they say when he gotback?
Oops, it was a mistake, andthat's the thing, right.
I hear that often that it'slike well, it was a mistake,
right, or that won't happen toyou because you're a citizen,
you know, or that won't happento you because you were born
(08:19):
here, but here it is right.
When policies are implemented ina way that can be aggressively
enforced or in a way that givesit a lot of loopholes or a lot
of leeways to be enforced, thenit just lends to violations of
(08:44):
human rights, because, at theend of the day, we are all human
beings.
Therefore, we all have humanrights, we all have the right of
dignity.
But when policies areimplemented in a way that makes
it easy for those that have toenforce these policies to bypass
(09:07):
human rights, to bypass certainthings, then it's very easy for
people to just grab someone andsay you look like you don't
belong here.
Therefore, I need to take youback to where you belong here.
(09:31):
Therefore, I need to take youback to where you belong.
But there's so much wrong withthat action, with that statement
.
You know, because what doessomeone who belongs here looks
like Look around you?
What does that look like?
If you really look around youand if you have surrounded
yourself with a diverse group ofindividuals, you will know the
(09:51):
answer to this.
You will know that people thatbelong here, people that are
born here, varied Different skincolors, different hair texture,
different eye color, differentbody build, different stature
you name it.
There is not one size fits allAmerican.
There is not.
(10:12):
But when policies are put inplace that can lend to
aggressive enforcement, that'swhat's going to happen.
More stories like the one thatI just said about Mark Daniel
Little will occur.
But even if Mark Daniel Littlewasn't documented, it's still
not a crime.
Because, let's be clear, beingundocumented is not a crime,
(10:36):
it's a civil violation.
I'll say it again beingundocumented is not a crime, it
is a civil violation.
But what do we hear?
What is the rhetoric that wehear?
We must get rid of all thosecriminals.
That is what we hear over andover and over, to the point
(11:00):
where now people are bypassinglogic and rationality and
equating immigrants to criminals, period.
I've heard, I've seen thatargument over and, over and over
.
Where they're criminals?
Because they're automaticallyassuming that if they're being
detained, if they're beingdeported, it is because they're
(11:23):
criminals.
But it's not.
It's not.
The truth is that over 70% ofpeople in ICE custody today have
no criminal record, not even aspeeding ticket, y'all.
And most of those who do isthings like expired papers,
(11:49):
missed hearings, reentry withoutinspection.
You know civil issues, notviolent crimes.
So 70% of people in ICE custodytoday have no criminal record.
But you wouldn't know that fromthe rhetoric.
You will not, because when youcriminalize someone's presence,
(12:16):
when just existing here becomesa threat, you give permission to
stop seeing them as humans.
And that's why I go back tothis has nothing to do with a
political party.
It has everything to do withthe policies being passed that
(12:37):
are allowing for this aggressiveenforcement to occur and that
is being backed throughdehumanizing rhetoric.
That's the crux of the problemhere.
This problem has persisted forus long, even longer than how
(12:57):
long I've been here in theUnited States, so both parties
have done something to this.
You see what I'm saying.
And let me be real.
This myth doesn't just hurtundocumented, it hurts all of us
, all of us, and I'm going tosay this, I said it on the video
on TikTok.
It doesn't matter whether youjust you're choosing to keep
(13:21):
your head in the sand and notlook up, or te hace la loca and
pretend like you don't know whatis going on or it's not going
to affect you.
We are all connected.
This is hurting all of usBecause once a government
creates a system where somepeople don't deserve rights,
that system gets realcomfortable expanding that list.
(13:46):
And you've seen this meme oflike first they came for these
group of people, right, but Ididn't care because I wasn't
that group of people.
Then they came for this groupof people, but I didn't care
because I wasn't that group ofpeople.
I know you've seen that meme.
Some of you may have bypassedand be like I know you've seen
that meme Some of you may havebypassed and be like bollocks
(14:08):
doesn't pertain to me.
Why should I care about that?
I'm at the top, you know.
But that's the thing.
When systems get reallycomfortable, that list will
continue to expand until you'renot even at the top anymore.
That's the kicker Easier.
I'm saying that's just thenature of the beast, okay,
(14:33):
because all it takes is just forsomeone in power to decide you
don't belong.
The myth of they knew what theywere doing is designed to numb
us.
It's designed to separate us,to convince us not to care for
the other.
(14:53):
Because when they say they knewwhat they were doing, it's like
they're telling you don't careabout them because they didn't
care about doing something wrong.
Therefore, you shouldn't carebecause you're the one doing it
right, you see?
So it's already starting todivide us by putting an us
versus them.
You know we're the good oneshere.
(15:13):
We're following the rules.
They decided not to.
Therefore, they deserveeverything that is coming.
And then that keeps us fromlooking into this deeper, into
assessing it, into dissecting it, because here is the real
question.
It's not whether did they knowwhat they were doing.
(15:37):
I think better questions wouldbe why did we build a system
where someone's worth depends ona document?
Why are we okay with systemsthat punish people for needing
safety, family or opportunity?
(15:58):
Why are we okay with a systemthat can just send someone like
Mark Little away and then justsay, oops, it's a mistake.
Because, if you ask me, no onedeserves to be just simply sent
(16:20):
away because of paperwork, or tobe reduced to a file or to be
erased because we just didn'twant to look at them, because
they're just, you know theydeserve that.
And I always think about thesecases where the policies got it
wrong and then these people haveto like fight tooth or nails to
(16:44):
show, to prove that they wereright all along.
And I always think, well, whatabout if they didn't find that
right person, like on MarkLittle's case?
He found this what I call asangels right that come at the
nick of time, and he found thatone person that was able to help
(17:04):
him out with resources so thatway he can come back.
But what about if he wouldn'thave?
What about if, god forbid,something horrible would have
happened to him and we wouldhave never known what happened
to Mark Little?
I always think about that.
That haunts me whenever I hearabout these cases, because for
(17:28):
every case where somebody foundsthat one person, that angel
that helps them out, that lawyerthat goes pro bono, you know,
and brings the state or whateverpowerful agency to their knees
and finally they admit oh shoot,we got it wrong, we enforced it
wrong.
There's a ton of others thatdidn't get that same chance,
(17:54):
that didn't find that same luck,and that is what haunts me a
lot of the time those names,those cases that we don't hear.
Because I go back to the policythat makes it so easy for those
(18:15):
who have to enforce it to fallinto immoral or unethical
practices in order to enforcethese policies, such as racial
profiling, such as lack of dueprocess you see what I'm saying
(18:36):
Such as taking people awaywithout even giving them a
chance to go to their courthearings or to miss their
appointments that would haveallowed them to do it the right
way.
You see what I'm saying.
So that is what I think aboutwhenever I hear these cases, and
(19:00):
I'm not saying to be boggeddown, like me, but I want you
all to think about that Dissect,that rhetoric, when you hear it
, because already a lot ofpeople, a lot of people are
equating immigrants withcriminals, and that is so wrong
(19:20):
on so many levels, or equatingundocumented.
You may be like no, I know notall immigrants, but the
undocumented ones are.
No.
Just because they'reundocumented does not mean that
they're criminals.
I just said it in here beingundocumented is a civil
(19:42):
violation, for those of you allhave gotten parking tickets.
Are you a criminal?
No, no, you're not.
It's the same thing as someonewho is undocumented.
And we can go deeper into howan undocumented individual still
(20:04):
contributes to the society andall of that.
But I don't want to go throughthat because then it makes
people think like the onlyreason why undocumented people
even have worth is because ofwhat they do.
But an undocumented person, justlike a documented person, is
(20:25):
worthy of dignity and respect.
You know why?
Because they're human beings,just like all of us.
That's it.
Not because they clean houses,not because they work the farms
that put food in our tablesevery day, not because they
drive buses that take us toevery place that we want to go
(20:46):
to.
Not because they care for ourchildren when we're at work.
Not because they pay taxes butthey don't get anything back
when it comes to governmentbenefits because, oh, by the way
, they're undocumented, so theydon't get none of that.
No, that's not why they'reworthy.
That's not why they're worthy.
(21:24):
They're worthy because they'rehuman beings.
That's it, and no one who is ahuman being should be getting
snatched up from the streets theway that is happening right now
.
No one, no one.
I've seen serial killers gettreated better.
I've seen mass shooters gettreated better.
I want you to sit with that one,all right.
If this episode didn't scareyou, come back for more.
We will be debunking anothermyth, and you know what.
Yes, we will be debunkinganother myth, and you know what?
(21:44):
Yes, I get passionate aboutthis.
Yes, I get like super hypedover it, and you're going to
hear that in my voice, becausethat's me, these are my people,
I am them.
And whenever somebody says, withtheir whole chest, all these
horrible things about immigrants, I take it personally.
(22:07):
You know, because I know that'snot us.
I know we're not that, but I'llsee you all next Wednesday.
Come back for more, don't letme down.
And if this stung a lot andyou're like, ooh, I don't think
I want to hear it, you need tocome back because you're the one
that needs it the most.
See you next Wednesday.
(22:28):
Bye.
If today's episode spoke to you, share it with somebody who's
finding their way back too, andif you haven't yet, visit
haveacupofjoanniecom for morestories, blog posts and the bits
that started it all.
Thank you for being here.
(22:48):
Until next time, be soft, bebold and always have a cup of
joannie.
Oh we could, we could fly.
Welcome back to have a Cup ofJohnny.
This season isn't abouthustling harder.
It's about coming home toyourself, to your voice, to your
breath, to the quiet truth thatyou're still here and you're
not starting over.
You're starting again.
(00:21):
This is your space to reflect,reset and remember who we tell
you.
So pour your cafecito and let'sbegin.
Have you ever heard someone saythey knew what they were doing?
They broke the law, so theydeserve whatever happens to them
(00:45):
.
Yeah, me too.
And every time I hear it,something inside of me just
recoils, because I know thatsentence isn't just cold, it's
incomplete.
Today I want to talk to youabout that sentence, about what
(01:06):
it leaves out, about thefamilies, the fear, the
paperwork, the impossiblechoices, and about the myth that
there's some perfect, cleanline between good immigrant and
a bad immigrant.
Welcome y'all, welcome to havea Cup of Joannie.
(01:27):
I am Joah, and this month weare cutting through the noise
and getting to the roots.
This is episode one of our Julyseries Debunking Immigration,
and today we're starting withone of the most persistent lies
in the book.
They knew what they were doing.
Now I want to start withsomething personal.
(01:53):
There was a time in my lifewhen I was just floating, y'all
heard my immigration story andlast month I was a child
separated from my parentsbecause of a technicality in
documents, like I explained,depending on administration
changes on either certainpaperwork, that certain
(02:16):
paperwork then required a seal,so we had to go to another
office to get a seal.
And guess what, before we turnin that paperwork, I needed a
new physical, because then thelast one was about to expire
(02:37):
before we can process thepaperwork.
You see what I'm saying, andall of these things took a lot
of money, it took a lot of timeand it took a lot of back and
forth as well, from where welive to the various offices in
Santo Domingo, chaotic, and Itry to explain that to people
(03:08):
who have no concept ofimmigration, but then, at the
same token, these same peoplesometimes have a whole opinion
on it without the experience ofactually living through the
bureaucratic tape between twocountries.
You know, trying to immigratefrom one to another and do it in
the quote-unquote legal wayBest thing that I can think of
(03:29):
to compare it to is kind of liketrying to traverse an ocean,
knowing that the ocean at timeswill be great and in other times
will be not so great.
The waters may be choppy oneday, maybe calm the next day, so
it really just depends when youset out on your boat to go from
(03:53):
point A to point B and that'sthe best way that I can equate
this process of doing it thelegal way you may get lucky
where you time it just right andthere are no changes in
anything between the twocountries, and then things may
go as smooth as they can.
(04:15):
Murphy will always have a rolein here.
Something will always happen asit does in life, but usually
that's when it's smooth sailing.
You may come into your journeyand have to do it when the
waters are really choppy andthat is gonna suck because it's
gonna take away a lot of yourtime, a lot of your resources.
(04:38):
And if halfway through you runout of those resources, say you
just you're done.
You know you're done.
You have to go and regroup oryou have to do it another way.
And for years I was living inthis, in-between, in this, going
back and forth with my grandmaand with my sister to all these
(04:59):
offices, because I had to bepresent, even though I was a
child, as the person requesting.
You see what I'm saying.
So I lived through this and noone seemed to think that that
was a problem.
You know, it's just the waythat it is right.
No one had an issue.
It was just me and my sistergetting caught in the legal
(05:21):
process, you know, going backand forth, and it's just
everybody just shrugging and waslike, well, you know, that's
just how it is and that's how itwill continue to be until we
actually make an attempt to makethis better for everyone
(05:42):
involved.
You see what I'm saying, and Ijust want to like make a note,
before we go into this theme andinto this episode, to know that
this is not about either orparty.
It's not about that.
It's about the policy and theprocedure in place that makes it
(06:03):
almost impossible for anyone totry to do it the right way or
to get after and reach the goalof doing it the right way.
That's what I'm talking abouthere.
(06:27):
So it really that has no playin this argument.
It really is just about makingeffective and efficient policies
.
People that are struggling arefacing death.
Where they are at, they canseek solace in new soil in an
(06:50):
efficient way.
That's what this is about.
Now you heard my story.
I'm going to tell you aboutthis guy called Mark Daniel
Little.
Mark was born in North Carolina, a US citizen diagnosed with
bipolar disorder.
In 2008, he was arrested and,instead of getting support, he
(07:15):
was funneled into ICE custodyand ICE assumed he was Mexican
because of the way that helooked.
However, no passport, nohearing, no lawyer, just a
one-way ticket to Reynosa.
Now here's the kicker.
Mark is a US citizen.
He didn't speak Spanish.
(07:36):
He had no family in Mexico.
He wandered through LatinAmerica, homeless, scarred,
barely surviving for 125 days,folks, until someone helped them
get home.
You hear that 125 days, untilsomeone helped them get home.
(07:57):
What did they say when he gotback?
Oops, it was a mistake, andthat's the thing, right.
I hear that often that it'slike well, it was a mistake,
right, or that won't happen toyou because you're a citizen,
you know, or that won't happento you because you were born
(08:19):
here, but here it is right.
When policies are implemented ina way that can be aggressively
enforced or in a way that givesit a lot of loopholes or a lot
of leeways to be enforced, thenit just lends to violations of
(08:44):
human rights, because, at theend of the day, we are all human
beings.
Therefore, we all have humanrights, we all have the right of
dignity.
But when policies areimplemented in a way that makes
it easy for those that have toenforce these policies to bypass
(09:07):
human rights, to bypass certainthings, then it's very easy for
people to just grab someone andsay you look like you don't
belong here.
Therefore, I need to take youback to where you belong here.
(09:31):
Therefore, I need to take youback to where you belong.
But there's so much wrong withthat action, with that statement
.
You know, because what doessomeone who belongs here looks
like Look around you?
What does that look like?
If you really look around youand if you have surrounded
yourself with a diverse group ofindividuals, you will know the
(09:51):
answer to this.
You will know that people thatbelong here, people that are
born here, varied Different skincolors, different hair texture,
different eye color, differentbody build, different stature
you name it.
There is not one size fits allAmerican.
There is not.
(10:12):
But when policies are put inplace that can lend to
aggressive enforcement, that'swhat's going to happen.
More stories like the one thatI just said about Mark Daniel
Little will occur.
But even if Mark Daniel Littlewasn't documented, it's still
not a crime.
Because, let's be clear, beingundocumented is not a crime,
(10:36):
it's a civil violation.
I'll say it again beingundocumented is not a crime, it
is a civil violation.
But what do we hear?
What is the rhetoric that wehear?
We must get rid of all thosecriminals.
That is what we hear over andover and over, to the point
(11:00):
where now people are bypassinglogic and rationality and
equating immigrants to criminals, period.
I've heard, I've seen thatargument over and, over and over
.
Where they're criminals?
Because they're automaticallyassuming that if they're being
detained, if they're beingdeported, it is because they're
(11:23):
criminals.
But it's not.
It's not.
The truth is that over 70% ofpeople in ICE custody today have
no criminal record, not even aspeeding ticket, y'all.
And most of those who do isthings like expired papers,
(11:49):
missed hearings, reentry withoutinspection.
You know civil issues, notviolent crimes.
So 70% of people in ICE custodytoday have no criminal record.
But you wouldn't know that fromthe rhetoric.
You will not, because when youcriminalize someone's presence,
(12:16):
when just existing here becomesa threat, you give permission to
stop seeing them as humans.
And that's why I go back tothis has nothing to do with a
political party.
It has everything to do withthe policies being passed that
(12:37):
are allowing for this aggressiveenforcement to occur and that
is being backed throughdehumanizing rhetoric.
That's the crux of the problemhere.
This problem has persisted forus long, even longer than how
(12:57):
long I've been here in theUnited States, so both parties
have done something to this.
You see what I'm saying.
And let me be real.
This myth doesn't just hurtundocumented, it hurts all of us
, all of us, and I'm going tosay this, I said it on the video
on TikTok.
It doesn't matter whether youjust you're choosing to keep
(13:21):
your head in the sand and notlook up, or te hace la loca and
pretend like you don't know whatis going on or it's not going
to affect you.
We are all connected.
This is hurting all of usBecause once a government
creates a system where somepeople don't deserve rights,
that system gets realcomfortable expanding that list.
(13:46):
And you've seen this meme oflike first they came for these
group of people, right, but Ididn't care because I wasn't
that group of people.
Then they came for this groupof people, but I didn't care
because I wasn't that group ofpeople.
I know you've seen that meme.
Some of you may have bypassedand be like I know you've seen
that meme Some of you may havebypassed and be like bollocks
(14:08):
doesn't pertain to me.
Why should I care about that?
I'm at the top, you know.
But that's the thing.
When systems get reallycomfortable, that list will
continue to expand until you'renot even at the top anymore.
That's the kicker Easier.
I'm saying that's just thenature of the beast, okay,
(14:33):
because all it takes is just forsomeone in power to decide you
don't belong.
The myth of they knew what theywere doing is designed to numb
us.
It's designed to separate us,to convince us not to care for
the other.
(14:53):
Because when they say they knewwhat they were doing, it's like
they're telling you don't careabout them because they didn't
care about doing something wrong.
Therefore, you shouldn't carebecause you're the one doing it
right, you see?
So it's already starting todivide us by putting an us
versus them.
You know we're the good oneshere.
(15:13):
We're following the rules.
They decided not to.
Therefore, they deserveeverything that is coming.
And then that keeps us fromlooking into this deeper, into
assessing it, into dissecting it, because here is the real
question.
It's not whether did they knowwhat they were doing.
(15:37):
I think better questions wouldbe why did we build a system
where someone's worth depends ona document?
Why are we okay with systemsthat punish people for needing
safety, family or opportunity?
(15:58):
Why are we okay with a systemthat can just send someone like
Mark Little away and then justsay, oops, it's a mistake.
Because, if you ask me, no onedeserves to be just simply sent
(16:20):
away because of paperwork, or tobe reduced to a file or to be
erased because we just didn'twant to look at them, because
they're just, you know theydeserve that.
And I always think about thesecases where the policies got it
wrong and then these people haveto like fight tooth or nails to
(16:44):
show, to prove that they wereright all along.
And I always think, well, whatabout if they didn't find that
right person, like on MarkLittle's case?
He found this what I call asangels right that come at the
nick of time, and he found thatone person that was able to help
(17:04):
him out with resources so thatway he can come back.
But what about if he wouldn'thave?
What about if, god forbid,something horrible would have
happened to him and we wouldhave never known what happened
to Mark Little?
I always think about that.
That haunts me whenever I hearabout these cases, because for
(17:28):
every case where somebody foundsthat one person, that angel
that helps them out, that lawyerthat goes pro bono, you know,
and brings the state or whateverpowerful agency to their knees
and finally they admit oh shoot,we got it wrong, we enforced it
wrong.
There's a ton of others thatdidn't get that same chance,
(17:54):
that didn't find that same luck,and that is what haunts me a
lot of the time those names,those cases that we don't hear.
Because I go back to the policythat makes it so easy for those
(18:15):
who have to enforce it to fallinto immoral or unethical
practices in order to enforcethese policies, such as racial
profiling, such as lack of dueprocess you see what I'm saying
(18:36):
Such as taking people awaywithout even giving them a
chance to go to their courthearings or to miss their
appointments that would haveallowed them to do it the right
way.
You see what I'm saying.
So that is what I think aboutwhenever I hear these cases, and
(19:00):
I'm not saying to be boggeddown, like me, but I want you
all to think about that Dissect,that rhetoric, when you hear it
, because already a lot ofpeople, a lot of people are
equating immigrants withcriminals, and that is so wrong
(19:20):
on so many levels, or equatingundocumented.
You may be like no, I know notall immigrants, but the
undocumented ones are.
No.
Just because they'reundocumented does not mean that
they're criminals.
I just said it in here beingundocumented is a civil
(19:42):
violation, for those of you allhave gotten parking tickets.
Are you a criminal?
No, no, you're not.
It's the same thing as someonewho is undocumented.
And we can go deeper into howan undocumented individual still
(20:04):
contributes to the society andall of that.
But I don't want to go throughthat because then it makes
people think like the onlyreason why undocumented people
even have worth is because ofwhat they do.
But an undocumented person, justlike a documented person, is
(20:25):
worthy of dignity and respect.
You know why?
Because they're human beings,just like all of us.
That's it.
Not because they clean houses,not because they work the farms
that put food in our tablesevery day, not because they
drive buses that take us toevery place that we want to go
(20:46):
to.
Not because they care for ourchildren when we're at work.
Not because they pay taxes butthey don't get anything back
when it comes to governmentbenefits because, oh, by the way
, they're undocumented, so theydon't get none of that.
No, that's not why they'reworthy.
That's not why they're worthy.
(21:24):
They're worthy because they'rehuman beings.
That's it, and no one who is ahuman being should be getting
snatched up from the streets theway that is happening right now
.
No one, no one.
I've seen serial killers gettreated better.
I've seen mass shooters gettreated better.
I want you to sit with that one,all right.
If this episode didn't scareyou, come back for more.
We will be debunking anothermyth, and you know what.
Yes, we will be debunkinganother myth, and you know what?
(21:44):
Yes, I get passionate aboutthis.
Yes, I get like super hypedover it, and you're going to
hear that in my voice, becausethat's me, these are my people,
I am them.
And whenever somebody says, withtheir whole chest, all these
horrible things about immigrants, I take it personally.
(22:07):
You know, because I know that'snot us.
I know we're not that, but I'llsee you all next Wednesday.
Come back for more, don't letme down.
And if this stung a lot andyou're like, ooh, I don't think
I want to hear it, you need tocome back because you're the one
that needs it the most.
See you next Wednesday.
(22:28):
Bye.
If today's episode spoke to you, share it with somebody who's
finding their way back too, andif you haven't yet, visit
haveacupofjoanniecom for morestories, blog posts and the bits
that started it all.
Thank you for being here.
(22:48):
Until next time, be soft, bebold and always have a cup of
joannie.
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