Disassociation is Complicity: Breaking the Cycle of Ignorance

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The smoke is already in your lungs, even if your house isn't on fire yet. This powerful metaphor frames our deep dive into disassociation—that subtle, pervasive mindset that whispers "if it's not happening to me, I don't care." While our brains naturally create psychological distance from suffering as a protective mechanism, this episode challenges us to recognize how this distancing doesn't actually make us safer—it makes us complicit.

Through personal storytelling and psychological insights, we explore how this mindset manifests particularly strongly around immigration issues. When we say things like "they knew what they were doing" or "we came here the right way," we're performing a type of patriotism rooted more in trauma than truth. Drawing from my own experience of being separated from my parents for years due to immigration bureaucracy, I share what it feels like to be on the receiving end of society's disassociation—the child who becomes no one's problem, caught in paperwork limbo for nearly a decade.

This episode isn't about guilt—it's about connection. Like California wildfires that spread from house to house, ignoring others' suffering doesn't keep us safe when systems of harm eventually reach our own doorstep. We examine how protests function to bridge artificial gaps between us, disrupting the illusion of separation and reminding us of our shared humanity. When we catch ourselves thinking "that's not my business," I invite you to pause and question what fears drive that response. It's time to exercise our empathy muscle rather than letting it atrophy, to close the psychological gap before it becomes a moral one. Because ultimately, silence isn't safety, and distance isn't immunity—they're just comfortable illusions that keep us from building the world we all deserve.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh we could, we could fly.
Welcome back to have a Cup ofJohnny.
This season isn't abouthustling harder.
It's about coming home toyourself, to your voice, to your
breath, to the quiet truth thatyou're still here and you're
not starting over.
You're starting again.

(00:21):
This is your space to reflect,reset and remember who we tell
you.
So pour your cafecito and let'sbegin.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Just because your house isn't on fire doesn't mean
the smoke isn't already in yourlungs, doesn't mean the smoke
isn't already in your lungs.
Hey y'all, welcome back to havea Cup of Joannie.
I'm Joah and this is episodefour in our Language, empathy
and Accountability series, andtoday we are talking about
something we don't always name,but we all feel, whether we want

(01:01):
to admit it or not, and this issomething that goes along the
way of.
If it's not happening to me, Idon't care.
That's the mindset.
It's subtle, it's quiet, butit's everywhere and it's
dangerous.

(01:22):
This episode is calledDisassociation, is in Neutral,
it's Complicity, becausedetaching yourself from someone
else's suffering doesn't makeyou safer.
If anything, it makes youcomplicit.
Let's talk psychology for aquick minute here.
There's a term calledpsychological distance.

(01:45):
It's the space, mental oremotional between you and
something that feels too faraway for you to matter, and the
brain loves to protect itself.
It's the reason why Iconstantly say that we, as
humans, we seek comfort so bad,and sometimes we seek comfort at

(02:07):
the backs of others, rightAgainst others.
Because of this, because it'sjust this psychological need to
always feel protected, to alwaysfeel comforted.
So when we hear about sufferingthat doesn't touch us directly.
We create that distance, wetell ourselves stories like
that's not my issue, they shouldhave followed the rules.

(02:28):
The reason why it's happeningto them is because they didn't
follow the rules.
And then, right away, whenyou're saying something like
that, you differentiatingyourself between one that
follows a rule possibly youright, because you're creating
that distance and one that doesnot, which is the other person
to which all this catastrophe ishappening to.

(02:50):
And then you probably also saythat will never happen to me
because you're the one thatfollows the rules.
That's how we cope, that's howwe protect our emotional
bandwidth, that's how we keepanxiety at bay.
But, like I said, in protectingourselves, we risk erasing or

(03:10):
harming others.
And this is exactly what I'vebeen seeing in the context of
immigration and ICE raids thesilence, the shoulder shrugs,
the comments like well, I didn'tvote for that.
That's not our community.
We came here the right way.

(03:31):
And those aren't justobservations, they are
psychological defenses, they arehow we make sense of the world
without taking on more pain.
But here's the thing on morepain.
But here's the thing, vacitos,just because something's not
happening to you doesn't mean itisn't real, and just because

(03:53):
you can scroll past, it doesn'tmean it won't reach your
doorstep eventually, and this isa big one.
And this is why you often hearwe must liberate this group,
because if we liberate thisgroup, it's liberation for all,
and that is a great phrase thatshows the interconnectedness of

(04:18):
all groups under the human beinghumanity umbrella you.
That phrase, right there,should teach us that we are all
interconnected, that justbecause it's not our house
currently on fire, it doesn'tmean that the smoke is not going
to kill us or that the fire isnot going to pass towards our

(04:39):
house, from house to house tohouse.
You see what I'm saying.
But this association gives usthis illusion of distance that
is not really there.
That's just our brain trying tocomfort and protect us, because
in truth, we are all far moreconnected than we want to admit.

(05:00):
And I think this is just myphilosophy, this is just my
theory.
I think that's why, like thewhite European folks just did
this whole race thing.
Because these people have darkskin, you know, brown, black
skin.
Therefore they're this.
They fit into this bucket.
Because we have this white skin, we fit into this quote unquote

(05:22):
better bucket, you know.
And I think they did that inlike a way to disassociate
themselves from the harm thatthey were causing.
You know, build that distancebetween them and us.
You know when, in reality, weare all connected and it's like

(05:46):
they did that to disrupt thatconnection, to try to erase that
connection.
And every single time we getinto these big protests, where
we demand to be seen, where wedemand to be heard, we are
disrupting that facade, thatillusion of separation.

(06:10):
We are saying, hey, look at us,we are just as humans as you,
we are just as humans as theEuropeans that build this system
of separation.
You see what I'm saying.
So I see protests as a way tobridge that gap, as a way to

(06:36):
really bring down that wallbetween us, so it can show
everyone that we are connected.
We are in fact connected underthe humanity, human being
umbrella.
Because if your neighbor'shouse is burning and you say,
not my house, not my problem,what happens when the flames

(06:58):
spread?
We've seen the Californiawildfires.
Right, it always spreads.
And then by the time you care,because you see it on your
backyard, it's already too late,because it's already at your
doorstep.
So this mindset of it's nothappening to me, I won't care,

(07:19):
is especially dangerous incommunities like ours, because
we know better.
We've lived through separation.
We've lived through loss,through being ignored, dismissed
, overlooked, and still we catchourselves echoing the same

(07:39):
language used against us.
We say things they knew whatthey were doing, they broke the
law, they should have stayedwhere they were.
But that's not justice, that'strauma turning into performance,
that's a misaligned patriotism.

(08:00):
And this reminds me of I talkedabout this in my previous
episode about me trying toseparate from the Spanish
language by like being harshagainst it and saying it sucks,
I don't ever want to speak itagain.
You know, and in my young,immatureperienced mind, I was 10

(08:28):
years old.
Then I was thinking that bydisassociating myself, by saying
how much I hated the culturethat I came from, will bring me
closer to the culture I am nowpart of, because I didn't
understand that there can be aand in that I can love the

(08:53):
culture that I came from and Ican also love the culture that
I'm in the country that I'm in.
It shouldn't be one or theother.
And I think that's what'shappening here, that sometimes,
when we say these statements,it's also about protecting

(09:13):
ourselves in the face of fromthen, where we are at will
support us more, will nourish usmore will accept us more, you

(09:34):
know.
But that right there, thatbinary, that's not correct folks
.
That is not correct.
Because if someone or somethingor an entity needs to accept
you by getting rid of what makesyou you, those are not the
people you want to be around.
If the only way that a group ofpeople is going to accept you

(09:57):
by you becoming something thatyou're not, they're not your
people.
They're not your people.
You know, and I can equate thatas an author, when I went
through this writing conferenceand somebody was like, well,
reading a book with all thatSpanish in there, I just

(10:17):
wouldn't even pick it up, Iwouldn't buy it, and it hurt,
and it hurt a lot, because I wasfeeling rejected by people that
I thought I wanted to be partof.
You know, these were readers,writers like me, and I wanted so
bad to be liked and to beaccepted by them.
And I went through that moment,right down the spot, after

(10:38):
hearing that comment, feelingrejected, feeling pity, feeling
bad, sad for myself.
But then something clicked inme and I don't know how, but
thankfully, right there in thespot, I turned to that person
and my eyes were welling withtears, you know, because I was
hurt.
I was really hurt, and I feelbig feelings every single time.

(11:01):
I feel rejected.
I'm a Leo, what can I say?
And I turned to her and I waslike, well, you're not my ideal
reader.
I told her and that's how it isin this instance as well, for
those Latinos that feel thatthey need to shun their identity
, they need to, like, be nastyto the place and the culture

(11:24):
where they came from.
So this country, this group ofpeople here, can accept them.
They're doing it wrong.
These people will never acceptyou, period.
And if they do, because of that, they're not your people,
because your people will loveand accept you with everything

(11:46):
that you are to include whereyou came from, to include your
mother tongue, to include yourfoods, your dances, your attire,
right, all of that.
They will love you because ofthat, of that.

(12:10):
You see and that's a toughlesson to learn when we have
been taught to assimilate bygetting rid of our own skin you
see that, right, there is likeperforming patriotism and that
fear dressing itself up as logicis illogical and, more than
anything, that's the braintrying to say if I either just

(12:33):
stay quiet, I'll stay safe, orif I turn into one of them.
I'll stay safe, but you won't.
Let me bring this home withsomething real.
You already heard my immigrationstory.
That was on the previousepisode to this one.
You know how I was separatedfrom my parents for years, not

(12:56):
by choice, but by circumstance,because it doesn't come
overnight, all these papers.
So for people to be like, whydon't you come here legally?
Well, it takes years, years,sometimes decades, because it's
a system that built to make usjump through hoops, right, so
that way they can either weighus out or be like oh well, you

(13:19):
didn't do this one thing Right.
Therefore, no, you can't comein right and then blame us for
failing.
My parents missed parts of mychildhood, a big chunk of my
childhood, not because theywanted to, but because they were
stuck between paperwork andpoverty.
They were all the way in theUnited States while I was with

(13:40):
my grandma in the DominicanRepublic.
So when I see people,especially Latinos, choosing to
look away, I remember how itfelt to be that child that they
ignored.
That's why it hits so deep,because I know what happens when

(14:01):
people disassociate.
I know what it feels like tonot be anyone's problem, to be
left behind while someonefigures out how to process the
paper, while someone figures outhow to send us a notice because
something was wrong or asignature was put in the wrong

(14:21):
line, to send us a notice whenthe administration changed, to
let us know that now we need new.
And that was me.
Year after year after year beingignored, the separation between
my sister and I and our parentslengthened and lengthened and
lengthened until, like, I can'tspeak for her, but I know at

(14:44):
times I felt like an orphan.
My grandmother that's what itfeels like.
Year after year after year.
People saying that's not myproblem, you know well, they can
wait a little bit longer.
And we were trying to do it theright way and we were still
ignored and made to wait years,close to a decade.

(15:08):
And, like I said in theprevious episode, I don't even
remember my parents in mychildhood Like not at all.
I didn't know them.
I had to get to know them whenI came to the US and that bond
is not there and that issomething that will be with me
for the rest of my life.
So I know what it feels to beignored and that's what people

(15:32):
that say that's not my problem,well, they should have done it
that way, or blah, blah, blah,blah, blah All these illogical
fallacies that they spew just totry to be protected and
accepted.
That's the result of that.
So here's my message for thisweek If you catch yourself

(15:55):
thinking, that's not my business, pause.
Ask yourself who taught youthat and what were they afraid
of when they taught you that,and then just look inside and
see if you feel just a littlebit protected, just a little bit
more comfortable after sayingthat phrase.
Because, right there, thatshould give you an inclination

(16:17):
that that's your mind, trying toprotect you from feeling big
emotions.
But here's the thing it's okayto feel those big emotions.
You shouldn't be running awayfrom them.
You shouldn't be running awayfrom them because that's your
empathy, that's your empathymuscle.
You're feeling something forsomebody else and that is a

(16:43):
muscle that you should continueto exercise, because we cannot
let it atrophy Just because thepain is uncomfortable and we're
just trying to get rid of thepain, or we trying to make the
pain go away, or we trying toignore as if the pain is not
there.
Work out that muscle, don't letit atrophy, people, All right.

(17:07):
So next week I'll close out thisseries and recap everything
we've explored language,identity, silence, complicity,
and how we begin to rebuild alanguage of care, accountability
and resistance.
Until then, ask yourself wherein your life have you checked
out and what would it look liketo check back in?

(17:29):
Because silence is not safetyand distance is not immunity.
It's time we close thatpsychological gap before it
becomes a moral one.
All right, y'all, I'm Joa, andI believe in our ability to
remember who we are together.
See you next time.
Bye.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
If today's episode spoke to you, share with
somebody who's finding their wayback too, and if you haven't
yet, visit haveacupofjoanniecomfor more stories, blog posts and
the bits that started it all.
Thank you for being here.
Until next time, be soft, bebold and always have a cup of

(18:14):
john.