June 11, 2025 • 25 mins
Words have the power to reshape how we see each other. They can strip away humanity or restore it, depending on how we wield them. This raw, urgent episode dives deep into how language becomes the first battleground where human dignity is won or lost.
When certain words keep appearing—invasion, flood, illegals, infestation—they aren't random choices. They're calculated terms designed to frame people as problems rather than humans with stories. I break down how these war words and pest control terms create psychological distance that makes further violence possible. Before raids tear families apart, before policies separate children from parents, the groundwork is laid through language that strips away empathy.
What's most heartbreaking is hearing this dehumanizing language from within our own communities. Phrases like "I did it the right way" or "that's not our problem" aren't neutral statements—they're active attempts to deflect responsibility and disassociate from our shared humanity. But as I explain through both personal reflection and cultural analysis, deflection isn't protection, disassociation isn't neutrality, and silence is never innocence.
This episode calls you to action: pay attention to the language in the news, in your group chats, at your family gatherings. When someone says "illegal," correct them. When harmful jokes normalize dehumanization, interrupt them. The virus of dehumanizing language doesn't discriminate about who it eventually harms—we're all connected, and our words matter. Join me in this necessary conversation, and stick around for next week when we dive deeper into how this rhetoric takes root within our communities.
This is the book I reference in this episode:
Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism―Understanding the Social Science of Cult Influence
*By the way, I’ve linked the book Cultish in the show notes using my affiliate link—so if you decide to grab a copy through that link, I’ll get a small kickback at no extra cost to you. It’s a win-win: you get an incredible read, and you help support the show just a little. Gracias in advance!
If today’s episode hit you in the chest the way it hit me, don’t just walk away—walk toward something that reflects you.
Subscribe to the podcast, hit that YouTube channel for the behind-the-scenes, and if you’re ready to read a story about what it really means to come home to yourself—
👉🏽 Preorder The Ordinary Bruja.
https://haveacupofjohanny.com/product/the-ordinary-bruja-book-one-of-las-cerradoras-series-j-e-ortega/
It’s about a Dominican-American bruja who’s been running from herself her whole life until ancestral magic, generational wounds, and a haunted-ass hill force her to face the truth.
If you’ve ever felt “too much,” “not enough,” or like you don’t fit anywhere, you’re exactly who this story was written for.
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Because becoming who you are is the bravest kind of magic.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh we could, we could fly.
Welcome back to have a Cup ofJohnny.
This season isn't abouthustling harder.
It's about coming home toyourself, to your voice, to your
breath, to the quiet truth thatyou're still here and you're
not starting over.
You're starting again.
(00:21):
This is your space to reflect,reset and remember who we tell
you.
So pour your cafecito and let'sbegin.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Before violence ever happens to a body, it happens in
the mind, and the way we getthere is through language.
Hola vasitos, welcome back tohave a Cup of Joani.
I'm Joa and today's episode isnot light.
(00:58):
I know I said June is going tobe this soft theme and you know
what?
In a way, that episode fromlast Wednesday fits right in and
it can continue to be that way,because being soft and open and
(01:20):
still and within that pause,prepares us to embrace our
entire humanness, to embrace theworld and our environment
around us.
So in a way, I take some ofthat back.
Let me scroll that back alittle bit.
This is all aligned but, to bebrutally honest and transparent
(01:45):
with you, this episode is not aslight as the previous one, but
it is necessary because I can'ttalk about softness, I can't
talk about healing identity ormagic, as what I wrote in the
Ordinary Bruja, without alsotalking about what happens when
(02:09):
language is used to erase all ofthat.
You know and you will see that,and I can't wait for the
Ordinary Bruja to come out,because you are going to see
this in fiction form, throughthe lens of social horror and
magical realism, but here in thepodcast we're going to talk
(02:29):
about the real life aspect of it.
So saying that this episode iscalled Language is the First
Step Toward Dehumanization, andI want you to really sit with
that title right now, becausebefore violence ever happens to
(03:03):
a person, before policies arepassed, before doors are kicked
in, before raids rip familiesapart, violence happens in the
mind.
And you may be asking how do wechange what people see in their
minds?
How does that get in there inthe first place?
Well, let me answer that foryou Through words, through
language.
And yes, you're getting thisfrom an author, from a writer,
(03:25):
from someone who reads a lot,and one of the books that I've
talked about before on mypodcast and on social media is
the book Cultish how languagereally can not only bring people
into a cult, but put peopleinto a coldish mindset.
Okay, so I'm going to put thatbook in the show notes so that
(03:50):
way y'all can reference it aswell.
And that book is on audiobookformat as well, all right, so
y'all can digest it that way.
It's also on ebook and it'salso on physical hardback and
paperback.
Okay, so if you wanna learn alittle bit more about what we're
talking here, I want you toreference that book and read it,
okay, and then you can comeback to me on my social medias
(04:14):
or an email and let me know whatyou got out of that, but you're
gonna hear some of that here onthis episode, okay.
So saying that I keep seeing thesame words over and over in
social media and commentsections and I know for my
mental health I need to stay outof the comment section on
Instagram, but God, it's sotempting and I just go through
(04:36):
it and keep reading it untilit's just like I get this
burning sensation of anger, offrustration, of defeat, and I
need to stop doing that.
It's getting to me.
But not only do I see thislanguage, these words, in the
comment sections, I also see itin the headlines, on panels, in
(04:59):
the news, in mouths of peoplewho should know better and also,
let's be honest, and people whodon't want to know better at
all.
And these are words likeinvasion, flood surge,
infestation, illegals, wave,disease, alien burden, criminals
(05:23):
, threat.
And let me ask you somethingand be serious, because I know
sometimes when I ask people,they want to be sarcastic and
joking in order to either becontrary to me or win the
argument.
Quote, unquote argument.
(05:43):
But be serious.
Do you use these kind of wordsto describe someone you care
about?
And I can tell you that if youwere serious about it and you
weren't using these words in asarcastic manner, the answer
(06:04):
will be no, that you don't,because those words that you
just heard me say are not wordsthat we use to describe humans.
Those are war words, those arepest control words.
Those are words that we use toframe people as problems, not as
(06:32):
people.
You see, those are words thatcan get people to act.
You see, those are words thatcan get people to act,
especially surge, invasion,infestation, wave.
You know, these are.
That's why I say these are warwords.
We're getting someone to actwhen we're describing other
(06:53):
human beings using these words.
Understand that.
And I want you to sit with thatreally quickly, because this
kind of language is notaccidental, it's not, it's not
at all.
Okay, oh my God, read cultish.
Okay, this kind of language iscalculated, it's deliberate, but
(07:17):
most importantly, it is sodangerous facitos.
Because once someone has beenlinguistically reduced to a
surge, to a disease, to a wave,you no longer feel compassion
when they drown in a river.
Once someone is called adisease when they drown in a
(07:43):
river.
Once someone is called adisease, you no longer feel
sorrow for them when they'reremoved from a classroom.
Why?
Because they're a disease.
So now the disease is gone fromyour classroom.
So now you rejoice.
There's one less thing for youto worry about.
You know what I'm saying.
Once someone is labeled illegal,you don't ask why they're here.
No, you start asking how can weget rid of them?
(08:06):
Because they're not meant to behere, they're illegal.
You see what I'm saying?
Dissociation is really thefirst act of violence.
You don't need a weapon, youdon't need a baton, you don't
need your fist, you don't evenneed the law.
(08:26):
You just need enough people tostop seeing someone as human.
That's it.
And then violence will occur insuch a peaceful manner, with
people just looking and notacting.
(08:46):
And all you needed were thosewords, that language, that
cultish language.
Because that's what it does.
It scrapes empathy out of ourvocabulary.
It inserts, instead of empathy,fear, where there should be
(09:06):
context as well.
It replaces story, the entirestory of that human being, and
it reduces it to just astereotype.
It to just a stereotype thatlanguage is meant to build in us
, versus them, without evenhaving to say it without ever
(09:27):
saying just that or naming whous really is and them who they
are.
You know, you don't even haveto do that because through this
language you are separating.
You're saying that over thereit's illegal, this is legal, and
then people, they hear thatover and over, then they start
(09:50):
using it, it is introduced intotheir vocabulary and through
that conceptualization of thatword and how it's used, they
draw their own definition.
So you see what I'm saying, soyou don't even have to name it.
After the word is circulatedenough, you don't have to name
(10:10):
it because people will take thecontext, will remember how it
was used, will remember with whoit was used and they will draw
their own definition and go fromthere and continue to parrot
that word in the same way.
And that's how violence getspassed in the most peaceful and
(10:30):
still kind of way.
And here's the part that's thehardest for me to say and that
is that some of this language iscoming from inside the house,
from inside the community.
And the entire reason why I'mmaking this podcast to be
transparent with you is becauseof everything that I keep seeing
(10:55):
on social media how yesterday,friday morning, there were raids
in downtown LA, a place thatbrought me so much joy not too
long ago, a place where I was incommunity at the Latina Fest,
where I felt such calmness andstillness and joy, and just
(11:19):
yesterday it was beingsuffocated with terror.
It was being scared senselessby these raids.
So, yes, I'm going to talkabout it.
Yes, I woke up at 4.30 thinkingabout it and, like I said, I
(11:41):
woke up at 4.30 thinking aboutit.
And, like I said, it frustratesme to my core to see how this
language comes from otherLatinos self-hating Latinos at
that, and, as well, some othermarginalized groups as well From
people saying things like andlisten to this language.
(12:02):
Well, I did it the right way.
That's not our problem.
My parents came here legally.
They should have known better.
This isn't about us.
I didn't vote for that.
And that's just to name a few ofthe comments that I wrote down
as I was scrolling through thecomments section of some of
those social media posts.
And I want to pause right here.
(12:26):
Let's do a quick pause so thatway I can say something loud and
clear, because these phraseshere, because these phrases here
, these phrases are meant todeflect and to disassociate.
(12:48):
Okay, but deflection is notprotection, disassociation is
not neutrality, and silence isnot innocence.
And I go back and I'm nottrying to sell this book y'all,
but the whole reason why I writethe books that I write, the
(13:12):
whole reason why I wrote theOrdinary Bruja, is to show that
silence doesn't save anyone.
No, it does not.
On the very opposite, it drownsus in guilt and horror.
You see, that is what the wholebook is about.
(13:40):
Because of comments like thisthat I keep seeing from
self-hating Latinosdisassociating from their
identity, disassociating fromtheir problem, and I put that on
my book and I was like, okay,let me draw this main character
where she's been trying to hidefrom herself, from her identity,
from the magic in the worldthat's around her.
(14:00):
And what happens when shesilences and looks away from
that, deflects, disassociates?
Well, her whole entire worldgoes to crap and she has to
unearth all of that.
Y se tiene que excavar fromthat hole that her entire family
(14:21):
line built.
You know she has to unearthherself from that hole.
You know Her entire family justdug that entire grave 10 feet
deep.
Because they didn't talk aboutit, because they thought that
silence was innocent.
I don't know.
(14:41):
Me voy a hacer la loca, so it'sokay.
So, because I don't know.
It's not my problem, you see,but the reason why it's in my
books is because I've seen it inreal life and I keep seeing it
in real life.
So I'm going to say thesephrases again because I want you
(15:02):
to be aware of them, to catchthem, and to catch it from
yourself as well.
If you say it Well, I did itthe right way.
Well, what's the right way?
Well, good for you that you areat the right time, at the right
place to do it that way.
That's not our problem.
I beg to defer.
That's everyone's problems,because, as human beings living
(15:25):
on the same patch of soil, weare all interconnected.
My parents came here illegally.
Great, great, your same luck isnot the same as someone else's,
your situation is not the sameas someone else's.
And I dislike this phrase somuch because it happens to me
(15:45):
quite a lot when people try toinvalidate my experience by
saying well, it didn't happen tome, that can happen to me and
something different can happento you, just like two siblings
can live in the same householdand experience two different
parents.
You see, oh, they should haveknown better.
(16:05):
Really they should.
It goes back to like how do youknow?
How do you know that your sameexact life and experience is
being lived by everyone else inthis world?
This isn't about us.
It's the same thing as.
That's not our problem.
Yes, it is.
As human beings, we're allinterconnected, and if COVID
(16:34):
didn't teach us that you musthave been living under a rock.
I didn't vote for that.
Okay, you didn't.
But it goes back to we'reinterconnected.
Other people did and,unfortunately, other people are
here with us, living in the samepatch of soil on this round
earth revolving around the sun,you know.
(16:55):
So, once again, deflection isnot protection.
Just because you say thosethings does not mean tag, you're
it and it's no longer myproblem.
Disassociation is notneutrality, it is not.
You're being complicit, justlike silence is not innocent.
Instead, silence is beingcomplicit in what is happening,
(17:16):
and you're just not saying it.
Because when you use the samelanguage as the state, you're
not keeping yourself safe.
Pasitos, okay, maybe it's notyou.
Okay, because if you'relistening to this podcast, if
you've been listening to me, Idoubt wholeheartedly that you
(17:38):
fall into this category.
Most of you probably do not.
But, once again, when you'reusing this language, you're not
keeping yourself safe, you'rejust making it easier for harm
to spread, for harm to spread,and as long, once again, as long
(17:58):
as we're all livinginterconnected in this patch of
soil which we are because we'repart of the human race, it will
spread, it will touch you, itwill touch your loved ones.
Okay, because you're tellingthe world this is like what a
pick me, kind of like a pick meright, don't come for me, go for
(18:19):
them right.
And I don't know if y'all haveseen those zombie movies, right,
and how that works out thateventually you get bitten right
Because you can only deflect forso long before harm comes and
finds you, because it will.
It will Because it's language.
(18:39):
That's what language does.
Take it from somebody who useslanguage to influence emotions
out of readers.
Okay, I understand thatLanguage is a powerful thing and
that's what I'm talking abouthere, even if you don't agree
right with what I'm telling you.
Just analyze the language beingused.
(19:01):
At the very least, analyze thelanguage that is being used and
watch.
Watch for those words, watchfor those phrases.
At the very least, watch forthe dehumanizing words and watch
your mind as you're thinkingabout them and watch your mouth
as you're repeating them,because the more that we say it,
(19:26):
the more that those phrases andthe words are being spread.
It's like a virus, right,spreading throughout the entire
community and we all know, right?
I take it back to COVID viruses.
Do not discriminate.
Think about a zombie apocalypseIf you've watched those kind of
(19:46):
movies.
It does not discriminate, itwill come for you, it will find
you, because when you letdehumanization in the door, it
doesn't ask for papers, itdoesn't ask for race, it just
(20:12):
asks for your complicity.
It asks for you to repeat it.
It asks for you to stay silentand don't say anything when you
hear other people saying it.
When you read it, it just saysshh, stay quiet, just repeat it,
let it pass on.
That's what it does, and I knowit's hard.
(20:33):
It's easier to just look awayto say this has nothing to do
with me, right?
I'm not Latine, I'm not Latino,I'm not Latina, I'm not Latinx,
right?
So it doesn't involve me.
But it does, because empathy isnot just an emotion, it's a
(20:58):
responsibility of the humankind.
It's a muscle that we have tokeep flexing, especially when
it's uncomfortable, and that'swhy I'm such an advocate of
reading diverse books fromauthors from different cultures,
from different races, fromdifferent genders, right,
(21:23):
different sexual orientation,because it forces you to see a
story from another perspectivethat is not your own.
Not your own, and by doing that, you are being shown somebody
that is different from you, evenif it's a fictional character.
(21:52):
You're being forced to see themas human beings in that story,
and that is like you going tothe empathy gym and working out.
We're all interconnectedbecause eventually the language
will find you and those wordswill become action, and that
same system that raids oneneighborhood will over police
yours.
(22:12):
So you see, it's all connectedbecause we are all connected.
So here's my ask from you fortoday Start paying attention to
the language in the news, inyour group chats, in your family
gatherings, in the comments atyour dinner table.
(22:34):
When someone says illegal,correct them.
When someone jokes about aflood of migrants, interrupt it.
When someone says they shouldhave done it the right way, ask
them what is that and why is itonly right for some and not for
(22:55):
others?
And why is it only right forsome and not for others?
Because the moment we stopnaming the violence in language,
we give it room to grow intosomething worse.
Thank you so much for sittingwith me on this one, and I hope
(23:22):
that you got something from thisepisode and I hope that you
check out the book Cultish thatI will reference on the show
notes.
Stick around, vacitos, becausenext week I'm going deeper into
this.
Rhetoric takes roots within ourcommunities.
I'm going deeper Next week.
I'm going deeper into how thisrhetoric takes root within our
(23:43):
communities.
We'll talk about internalizedbiases, classism and the myth of
respectability.
The episode will be called whenwe Speak Like the State,
because some of us think we'rebeing patriotic, but what we're
really being is dangerous.
Okay, if this episode made youpause, good, that's the whole
(24:05):
point.
And if you feel called to shareit, talk about it and start
asking different questions.
We cannot stop the violence ifwe keep justifying the words
that lead to it.
Until next time, vasitos, I'mJoa.
Stay soft, stay alert and stayhuman, please.
(24:26):
Thank you, bye.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
If today's episode spoke to you, share with
somebody who's finding their wayback too, and if you haven't
yet, visit haveacupofjoanicomfor more stories, blog posts and
the bits that started it all.
Thank you for being here.
Until next time, be soft, bebold and always have a cup of
(24:55):
joani.
Oh we could, we could fly.
Welcome back to have a Cup ofJohnny.
This season isn't abouthustling harder.
It's about coming home toyourself, to your voice, to your
breath, to the quiet truth thatyou're still here and you're
not starting over.
You're starting again.
(00:21):
This is your space to reflect,reset and remember who we tell
you.
So pour your cafecito and let'sbegin.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Before violence ever happens to a body, it happens in
the mind, and the way we getthere is through language.
Hola vasitos, welcome back tohave a Cup of Joani.
I'm Joa and today's episode isnot light.
(00:58):
I know I said June is going tobe this soft theme and you know
what?
In a way, that episode fromlast Wednesday fits right in and
it can continue to be that way,because being soft and open and
(01:20):
still and within that pause,prepares us to embrace our
entire humanness, to embrace theworld and our environment
around us.
So in a way, I take some ofthat back.
Let me scroll that back alittle bit.
This is all aligned but, to bebrutally honest and transparent
(01:45):
with you, this episode is not aslight as the previous one, but
it is necessary because I can'ttalk about softness, I can't
talk about healing identity ormagic, as what I wrote in the
Ordinary Bruja, without alsotalking about what happens when
(02:09):
language is used to erase all ofthat.
You know and you will see that,and I can't wait for the
Ordinary Bruja to come out,because you are going to see
this in fiction form, throughthe lens of social horror and
magical realism, but here in thepodcast we're going to talk
(02:29):
about the real life aspect of it.
So saying that this episode iscalled Language is the First
Step Toward Dehumanization, andI want you to really sit with
that title right now, becausebefore violence ever happens to
(03:03):
a person, before policies arepassed, before doors are kicked
in, before raids rip familiesapart, violence happens in the
mind.
And you may be asking how do wechange what people see in their
minds?
How does that get in there inthe first place?
Well, let me answer that foryou Through words, through
language.
And yes, you're getting thisfrom an author, from a writer,
(03:25):
from someone who reads a lot,and one of the books that I've
talked about before on mypodcast and on social media is
the book Cultish how languagereally can not only bring people
into a cult, but put peopleinto a coldish mindset.
Okay, so I'm going to put thatbook in the show notes so that
(03:50):
way y'all can reference it aswell.
And that book is on audiobookformat as well, all right, so
y'all can digest it that way.
It's also on ebook and it'salso on physical hardback and
paperback.
Okay, so if you wanna learn alittle bit more about what we're
talking here, I want you toreference that book and read it,
okay, and then you can comeback to me on my social medias
(04:14):
or an email and let me know whatyou got out of that, but you're
gonna hear some of that here onthis episode, okay.
So saying that I keep seeing thesame words over and over in
social media and commentsections and I know for my
mental health I need to stay outof the comment section on
Instagram, but God, it's sotempting and I just go through
(04:36):
it and keep reading it untilit's just like I get this
burning sensation of anger, offrustration, of defeat, and I
need to stop doing that.
It's getting to me.
But not only do I see thislanguage, these words, in the
comment sections, I also see itin the headlines, on panels, in
(04:59):
the news, in mouths of peoplewho should know better and also,
let's be honest, and people whodon't want to know better at
all.
And these are words likeinvasion, flood surge,
infestation, illegals, wave,disease, alien burden, criminals
(05:23):
, threat.
And let me ask you somethingand be serious, because I know
sometimes when I ask people,they want to be sarcastic and
joking in order to either becontrary to me or win the
argument.
Quote, unquote argument.
(05:43):
But be serious.
Do you use these kind of wordsto describe someone you care
about?
And I can tell you that if youwere serious about it and you
weren't using these words in asarcastic manner, the answer
(06:04):
will be no, that you don't,because those words that you
just heard me say are not wordsthat we use to describe humans.
Those are war words, those arepest control words.
Those are words that we use toframe people as problems, not as
(06:32):
people.
You see, those are words thatcan get people to act.
You see, those are words thatcan get people to act,
especially surge, invasion,infestation, wave.
You know, these are.
That's why I say these are warwords.
We're getting someone to actwhen we're describing other
(06:53):
human beings using these words.
Understand that.
And I want you to sit with thatreally quickly, because this
kind of language is notaccidental, it's not, it's not
at all.
Okay, oh my God, read cultish.
Okay, this kind of language iscalculated, it's deliberate, but
(07:17):
most importantly, it is sodangerous facitos.
Because once someone has beenlinguistically reduced to a
surge, to a disease, to a wave,you no longer feel compassion
when they drown in a river.
Once someone is called adisease when they drown in a
(07:43):
river.
Once someone is called adisease, you no longer feel
sorrow for them when they'reremoved from a classroom.
Why?
Because they're a disease.
So now the disease is gone fromyour classroom.
So now you rejoice.
There's one less thing for youto worry about.
You know what I'm saying.
Once someone is labeled illegal,you don't ask why they're here.
No, you start asking how can weget rid of them?
(08:06):
Because they're not meant to behere, they're illegal.
You see what I'm saying?
Dissociation is really thefirst act of violence.
You don't need a weapon, youdon't need a baton, you don't
need your fist, you don't evenneed the law.
(08:26):
You just need enough people tostop seeing someone as human.
That's it.
And then violence will occur insuch a peaceful manner, with
people just looking and notacting.
(08:46):
And all you needed were thosewords, that language, that
cultish language.
Because that's what it does.
It scrapes empathy out of ourvocabulary.
It inserts, instead of empathy,fear, where there should be
(09:06):
context as well.
It replaces story, the entirestory of that human being, and
it reduces it to just astereotype.
It to just a stereotype thatlanguage is meant to build in us
, versus them, without evenhaving to say it without ever
(09:27):
saying just that or naming whous really is and them who they
are.
You know, you don't even haveto do that because through this
language you are separating.
You're saying that over thereit's illegal, this is legal, and
then people, they hear thatover and over, then they start
(09:50):
using it, it is introduced intotheir vocabulary and through
that conceptualization of thatword and how it's used, they
draw their own definition.
So you see what I'm saying, soyou don't even have to name it.
After the word is circulatedenough, you don't have to name
(10:10):
it because people will take thecontext, will remember how it
was used, will remember with whoit was used and they will draw
their own definition and go fromthere and continue to parrot
that word in the same way.
And that's how violence getspassed in the most peaceful and
(10:30):
still kind of way.
And here's the part that's thehardest for me to say and that
is that some of this language iscoming from inside the house,
from inside the community.
And the entire reason why I'mmaking this podcast to be
transparent with you is becauseof everything that I keep seeing
(10:55):
on social media how yesterday,friday morning, there were raids
in downtown LA, a place thatbrought me so much joy not too
long ago, a place where I was incommunity at the Latina Fest,
where I felt such calmness andstillness and joy, and just
(11:19):
yesterday it was beingsuffocated with terror.
It was being scared senselessby these raids.
So, yes, I'm going to talkabout it.
Yes, I woke up at 4.30 thinkingabout it and, like I said, I
(11:41):
woke up at 4.30 thinking aboutit.
And, like I said, it frustratesme to my core to see how this
language comes from otherLatinos self-hating Latinos at
that, and, as well, some othermarginalized groups as well From
people saying things like andlisten to this language.
(12:02):
Well, I did it the right way.
That's not our problem.
My parents came here legally.
They should have known better.
This isn't about us.
I didn't vote for that.
And that's just to name a few ofthe comments that I wrote down
as I was scrolling through thecomments section of some of
those social media posts.
And I want to pause right here.
(12:26):
Let's do a quick pause so thatway I can say something loud and
clear, because these phraseshere, because these phrases here
, these phrases are meant todeflect and to disassociate.
(12:48):
Okay, but deflection is notprotection, disassociation is
not neutrality, and silence isnot innocence.
And I go back and I'm nottrying to sell this book y'all,
but the whole reason why I writethe books that I write, the
(13:12):
whole reason why I wrote theOrdinary Bruja, is to show that
silence doesn't save anyone.
No, it does not.
On the very opposite, it drownsus in guilt and horror.
You see, that is what the wholebook is about.
(13:40):
Because of comments like thisthat I keep seeing from
self-hating Latinosdisassociating from their
identity, disassociating fromtheir problem, and I put that on
my book and I was like, okay,let me draw this main character
where she's been trying to hidefrom herself, from her identity,
from the magic in the worldthat's around her.
(14:00):
And what happens when shesilences and looks away from
that, deflects, disassociates?
Well, her whole entire worldgoes to crap and she has to
unearth all of that.
Y se tiene que excavar fromthat hole that her entire family
(14:21):
line built.
You know she has to unearthherself from that hole.
You know Her entire family justdug that entire grave 10 feet
deep.
Because they didn't talk aboutit, because they thought that
silence was innocent.
I don't know.
(14:41):
Me voy a hacer la loca, so it'sokay.
So, because I don't know.
It's not my problem, you see,but the reason why it's in my
books is because I've seen it inreal life and I keep seeing it
in real life.
So I'm going to say thesephrases again because I want you
(15:02):
to be aware of them, to catchthem, and to catch it from
yourself as well.
If you say it Well, I did itthe right way.
Well, what's the right way?
Well, good for you that you areat the right time, at the right
place to do it that way.
That's not our problem.
I beg to defer.
That's everyone's problems,because, as human beings living
(15:25):
on the same patch of soil, weare all interconnected.
My parents came here illegally.
Great, great, your same luck isnot the same as someone else's,
your situation is not the sameas someone else's.
And I dislike this phrase somuch because it happens to me
(15:45):
quite a lot when people try toinvalidate my experience by
saying well, it didn't happen tome, that can happen to me and
something different can happento you, just like two siblings
can live in the same householdand experience two different
parents.
You see, oh, they should haveknown better.
(16:05):
Really they should.
It goes back to like how do youknow?
How do you know that your sameexact life and experience is
being lived by everyone else inthis world?
This isn't about us.
It's the same thing as.
That's not our problem.
Yes, it is.
As human beings, we're allinterconnected, and if COVID
(16:34):
didn't teach us that you musthave been living under a rock.
I didn't vote for that.
Okay, you didn't.
But it goes back to we'reinterconnected.
Other people did and,unfortunately, other people are
here with us, living in the samepatch of soil on this round
earth revolving around the sun,you know.
(16:55):
So, once again, deflection isnot protection.
Just because you say thosethings does not mean tag, you're
it and it's no longer myproblem.
Disassociation is notneutrality, it is not.
You're being complicit, justlike silence is not innocent.
Instead, silence is beingcomplicit in what is happening,
(17:16):
and you're just not saying it.
Because when you use the samelanguage as the state, you're
not keeping yourself safe.
Pasitos, okay, maybe it's notyou.
Okay, because if you'relistening to this podcast, if
you've been listening to me, Idoubt wholeheartedly that you
(17:38):
fall into this category.
Most of you probably do not.
But, once again, when you'reusing this language, you're not
keeping yourself safe, you'rejust making it easier for harm
to spread, for harm to spread,and as long, once again, as long
(17:58):
as we're all livinginterconnected in this patch of
soil which we are because we'repart of the human race, it will
spread, it will touch you, itwill touch your loved ones.
Okay, because you're tellingthe world this is like what a
pick me, kind of like a pick meright, don't come for me, go for
(18:19):
them right.
And I don't know if y'all haveseen those zombie movies, right,
and how that works out thateventually you get bitten right
Because you can only deflect forso long before harm comes and
finds you, because it will.
It will Because it's language.
(18:39):
That's what language does.
Take it from somebody who useslanguage to influence emotions
out of readers.
Okay, I understand thatLanguage is a powerful thing and
that's what I'm talking abouthere, even if you don't agree
right with what I'm telling you.
Just analyze the language beingused.
(19:01):
At the very least, analyze thelanguage that is being used and
watch.
Watch for those words, watchfor those phrases.
At the very least, watch forthe dehumanizing words and watch
your mind as you're thinkingabout them and watch your mouth
as you're repeating them,because the more that we say it,
(19:26):
the more that those phrases andthe words are being spread.
It's like a virus, right,spreading throughout the entire
community and we all know, right?
I take it back to COVID viruses.
Do not discriminate.
Think about a zombie apocalypseIf you've watched those kind of
(19:46):
movies.
It does not discriminate, itwill come for you, it will find
you, because when you letdehumanization in the door, it
doesn't ask for papers, itdoesn't ask for race, it just
(20:12):
asks for your complicity.
It asks for you to repeat it.
It asks for you to stay silentand don't say anything when you
hear other people saying it.
When you read it, it just saysshh, stay quiet, just repeat it,
let it pass on.
That's what it does, and I knowit's hard.
(20:33):
It's easier to just look awayto say this has nothing to do
with me, right?
I'm not Latine, I'm not Latino,I'm not Latina, I'm not Latinx,
right?
So it doesn't involve me.
But it does, because empathy isnot just an emotion, it's a
(20:58):
responsibility of the humankind.
It's a muscle that we have tokeep flexing, especially when
it's uncomfortable, and that'swhy I'm such an advocate of
reading diverse books fromauthors from different cultures,
from different races, fromdifferent genders, right,
(21:23):
different sexual orientation,because it forces you to see a
story from another perspectivethat is not your own.
Not your own, and by doing that, you are being shown somebody
that is different from you, evenif it's a fictional character.
(21:52):
You're being forced to see themas human beings in that story,
and that is like you going tothe empathy gym and working out.
We're all interconnectedbecause eventually the language
will find you and those wordswill become action, and that
same system that raids oneneighborhood will over police
yours.
(22:12):
So you see, it's all connectedbecause we are all connected.
So here's my ask from you fortoday Start paying attention to
the language in the news, inyour group chats, in your family
gatherings, in the comments atyour dinner table.
(22:34):
When someone says illegal,correct them.
When someone jokes about aflood of migrants, interrupt it.
When someone says they shouldhave done it the right way, ask
them what is that and why is itonly right for some and not for
(22:55):
others?
And why is it only right forsome and not for others?
Because the moment we stopnaming the violence in language,
we give it room to grow intosomething worse.
Thank you so much for sittingwith me on this one, and I hope
(23:22):
that you got something from thisepisode and I hope that you
check out the book Cultish thatI will reference on the show
notes.
Stick around, vacitos, becausenext week I'm going deeper into
this.
Rhetoric takes roots within ourcommunities.
I'm going deeper Next week.
I'm going deeper into how thisrhetoric takes root within our
(23:43):
communities.
We'll talk about internalizedbiases, classism and the myth of
respectability.
The episode will be called whenwe Speak Like the State,
because some of us think we'rebeing patriotic, but what we're
really being is dangerous.
Okay, if this episode made youpause, good, that's the whole
(24:05):
point.
And if you feel called to shareit, talk about it and start
asking different questions.
We cannot stop the violence ifwe keep justifying the words
that lead to it.
Until next time, vasitos, I'mJoa.
Stay soft, stay alert and stayhuman, please.
(24:26):
Thank you, bye.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
If today's episode spoke to you, share with
somebody who's finding their wayback too, and if you haven't
yet, visit haveacupofjoanicomfor more stories, blog posts and
the bits that started it all.
Thank you for being here.
Until next time, be soft, bebold and always have a cup of
(24:55):
joani.
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