Behind The DAW w/ Nik Cherwink (Podcast Replay)

Episode Transcript
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riverside_nik_raw-video (00:00):
There's A difference between being a
producer and being an artist.
Being a producer is, youunderstand the math and science
of how music production works.
Being an artist is creating fromthe heart, creating from the
soul, do I actually have somefire inside of me, inside of my
chest, inside of my belly,inside of my fucking soul that I
want to bring to the world?

Nik Cherwink (00:27):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast.
This week's guest is a reallyspecial one because this week's
guest is actually me.
I recently got to sit down withthe DA Nation podcast with my
good buddy, Wyatt, and if you'renot familiar with DA Nation, you
gotta check these guys out.
They have.
Some of the absolute best musicproduction courses in the game.

(00:49):
So if you're looking to level upyour music production from sound
design or even vocal production,they recently put out an epic
course on vocal production.
You gotta check them out.
But we really dug into some deepstuff.
You know me, I like to get alittle bit woo woo.
So we really went down therabbit hole talking about
spirituality, talking about justbeing an authentic artist, how

(01:10):
to really keep that.
Inner flame and fire lit insideof you, so this is a really
special one.
I hope you guys enjoy.
I wanna welcome you back toanother episode of Behind the Do
This Week we have Nick Sherwin,who is near and dear to my
heart.
He was one of my mentors at IconCollective, you know, like 50
years ago when we were both veryyoung.
Nick, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
How you doing today, man?

(01:30):
Dude, I'm doing so well.
I'm very excited, excited to beback because I did one of these
with you a long time ago, if I'mnot mistaken, right?
Years ago, dude, that was one ofmy favorite episodes ever.
In fact, since then, Nick hasstarted his own podcast.
You know, I explained more ofthat in the, the intro of this
liner mindset.
I went on there.
It is an amazing podcast.
If you're not, subscribe to it.

(01:51):
Repent and change, and go andsubscribe to it right now.
But Nick, why are we have peoplehere and we're, we're catching
their interest.
Could you be so kind as tomention.
What is one of the worstdecisions that you've made for
your career inside of music?
At one point I was working veryclosely with Pasquale, from
Insomniac.

(02:11):
I had about six months prior tothat, uh, I was working at
Capital Records, which was areally cool job to have.
But I also had fallen in lovewith dance music and I was like,
I want to get into that worldthat looks so fun.
That's where my passion is.
I'm going to raves everyweekend.
Somehow six months later, I'mliterally working, you know,
pretty closely with Pasqual andthey were starting the Discovery

(02:35):
Project.
So I was very involved inhelping get the Discovery
project off the ground.
I wasn't technically working forInsomniac around that time.
I, I was working for the managerof the Black Eyed Peas, who was
really good friends with him.
They had grown up togetherpretty much, and like really
good buddies and so, uh, we weremanagers that were helping them
with this Discovery Projectplatform.

(02:55):
To make a long story short, Iguess he wanted to hire me.
He was like, Hey, I really likeNick.
This guy's cool.
He's sharp.
Like, I want to bring him ontothe team.
Uh, he didn't tell that to medirectly.
He told that to, um, the guy Iwas working for, and I, and I
basically passed it up.
I was like, no, no, I'm good.
And I think I was kind of beinglike, I don't know, humble or
whatever.
And, and, uh, I was like, yeah,no, I'm cool.
Like, let's, I'm happy with,with what we're doing here.

(03:16):
And shortly after that, and hedid a huge deal with Live Nation
and like, they just like bleweverything up massively.
And so there's this, you know,there's that always that
parallel reality of like, oh, ifI had made that one decision
differently, where would my lifebe?
And I'm like, probably couldhave been like, pretty high up
in the insomniac, you know, foodchain throwing big festivals and
stuff over there.
So, uh, I would say.

(03:37):
That was, uh, something I lookback on sometimes and wonder
what if so is, is the main, isthe main concept with that is
that you, you didn't feel likeyou were enough to take that
opportunity.
Is that, is that the moral tothe story?
Really what it was, was I hadbeen talking to Icahn at the
time and I was getting moreexcited about that.
You know, I was like, icon wasvery small at the time.

(04:00):
They were, they were just, youknow, kind of still unknown and,
but I just, I just, there was avibe over there that I liked,
that I resonated with and I waslike, I think I want to, I think
I want to, I just started toteaching like one hour a week I
would come in to teach a musicbusiness class, and I was like.
I didn't know what it was, but Ithink my intuition was just
pulling me.
I was like, yeah, you know what,I think I want to see what's

(04:21):
happening over here.
I wouldn't say I regret thatdecision.
'cause it, it all, it all workedout just fine.
But yeah, one of those fork inthe road moments.
I appreciate that man.
And, and domination.
Make sure to stay all the way tothe end because at the end of
this episode we're gonna askNick, what was the best decision
that he made for his musiccareer?
You, sir, are one of the mostintelligent people that I have
come across.
Like, I like to think thathowever many grams of protein

(04:42):
you have per day, that's whatyour IQ is, right?
So if you're doing 200 grams ofprotein today, you're 200 IQ
individual, right?
And so, um, you, you are veryconcerned with the, the higher
thought.
The higher emotion things.
And I, I don't have a good termfor that.
I wish I did.
But you know, we were talkingabout your five pillars to
success inside of the musicindustry, right?

(05:05):
And I'm gonna see if I canremember'em.
It was mindset.
Did I get it right?
Am I good on number one?
Mindset, music, branding,something else.
Branding.
Um.
Something in the networking,what was the fourth one?
Marketing.
Marketing and the networking.
Right.
And so the very first one kindof ties into what we're talking

(05:25):
about, like that, that highermind, not so surface level, you
know, kind of grindy stuff.
Well, I guess the music could bein the, in the higher mind as
well.
But tell us, Nick, what, in yourown words, what does mindset
mean?
What does that entail?
I mean, that's in the title ofyour podcast, you know, what
does, yeah, let's give us a harddefinition for that.
Mindset touches everything.
What is your mindset when itcomes to music?

(05:47):
Right?
Are you just chasing trends?
Are you kind of doing it forthe.
Wrong reasons in the firstplace, making music.
'cause you just want to getfamous and impress people,
right?
Or you want to, you want toprove the bullies wrong.
That, that you're, that you'revaluable.
Right.
Or, or you know, what's yourmindset when it comes to
branding?
Are you, do you, do youunderstand the music business in

(06:09):
the first place?
Where a lot of this is comingfrom is that I have worked with
artists for, I think like 15years now, and specifically
electronic music producers frombeing a manager to launching the
discovery project, working atIcon Collective for so long,
I've worked with like hundreds,you know, with like literally
just at Icon, like had over athousand students during my time

(06:30):
there and I saw a lot of people.
Go on and succeed, like becomereally huge.
We're talking main stagetouring, headlining DJs, right?
Making millions of dollars ayear, crushing it.
And I saw far more that didn'tsucceed.
Right?
And I think that everybodyreally is looking at, okay, well
obviously yeah, you need to makegreat music, have a good brand,

(06:53):
like get really good atmarketing, build your audience,
get good at social media, youknow, networking.
You need to know the rightpeople.
We're looking at all of thisstuff that's kind of above the
surface.
And like I was always thinkingabout like, what is it really?
Like why did these guys succeedin the other?
Like in 90% either quit or theyonly made it so far, or they're

(07:13):
still kind of struggling.
And it's like, yeah, all ofthose above the surface, things
matter.
But below the surface is who areyou as a person?
Everybody's working on theircareer, but are you actually
working on yourself?
Right?
Like, what is your mindset?
Uh, and some of those qualities,I'm like, yo, a lot of these
people, they, they wereextremely hungry, extremely
driven, extremely focused, um,but also just really believed in

(07:36):
themselves.
Uh, you have to have a highlevel of emotional intelligence
to be able to navigaterelationships.
You know, you have to be alikable person.
People don't wanna work withpeople that, that aren't
likable.
So there's a, there's a wholeother realm of things to work on
that a lot of people aren'tthinking about and, and, and
focusing on.
And so that's where I realized,I'm like, Hey, this is, this is

(07:58):
the stuff that people eventuallystarted coming to me to, uh, ask
to help them with.
You know, uh, I said, kidsstarted coming to me at Icon
saying, Hey, will you be mymentor for the quarter?
And I, and I was like, Itechnically can't be your
mentor.
I don't know how to producemusic.
I can't teach you how to producemusic.
And they're like, no, I want youto teach us the life stuff.
Because they, they startedrecognizing like, oh yeah,

(08:18):
there's, there's a lot moregoing on here than just.
Making tracks and releasingrecords and building an audience
on social media.
You know what I mean?
Like there's such a deeper, uh,area of work that needs to be
done and, and focused on.
And, and even artists that arealready at, like, I have
artists.
I have clients, you know, I'm a,I'm a professionally certified
life coach now and have beenrunning a coaching business for

(08:38):
seven years.
I have clients that arefull-time touring artists.
They're actually my favoriteclients to work with because I
don't have to help them at allwith their business, with their
branding and their marketing.
It's purely now that you'resucceeding and you're getting on
a plane every weekend and, andyou're dealing with the
pressures of the industry.
How do you keep your headscrewed on straight?
There's a lot, uh, there's arollercoaster of challenges that

(09:01):
come with that.
And they're not just externalchallenges, they're internal
challenges.
All of our, all of our successstarts from the inside out.
That's, that's really, it'splaying the inner game.
That's what I, I, I reallychoose, choose, you know, focus
on.
And so when I say mindset, yes,it's mindset, but it's also,
it's also more reflective of.

(09:21):
Everything on the inside,mentally, emotionally, um, even
physically, like energetically,like do you physically have the
energy to like put in every day?
Uh, and you know, spiritually aswell, I love to kind of get a
little bit spiritual and go downthe woowoo path.
So, so mindset kind ofrepresents all of that for me.
That's the stuff that I reallyfocus on with, with my clients
and in my work.
The work that you're doing andthe concepts that you're talking

(09:43):
on is something that I thinkabout deeply all the time.
Uh, not only from doing thepodcast, but just like in my own
life and, you know, trying tofind that, that it, I guess it's
like the inner fire because alot of the things that we're
talking about right now.
The music, the brand.
Well, again, music you can kindof argue kind of is some of that
deeper stuff.
Well, at least music creation,right?

(10:03):
Ho.
Hopefully it is.
I hope so's what I hope forpeople.
Yeah, exactly.
But, but the, the marketing,the, the, you know, the
branding, what the cover it'sgonna look like, the logo,
animations, like all that kindof stuff.
I kind of see that as like, likewe've said before, the tip of
the iceberg or the smoke, andthen what is the fire that's
making the smoke.
Right.
Because unless you know if,unless you have like that
roaring fire Yes.

(10:24):
In the inner hearth.
It just, it doesn't.
Do, you're not gonna have a lotof smoke.
Right.
And Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There it is.
There.
It's, that's, that's it.
No, you're, you're, it's thebest metaphor.
You could, you could possibly, II love that.
And if you don't mind, I'mabsolutely stealing that from
you.
'cause it is like, are you onfire?
It's like, make the fire first.
Like, okay.
And then go market it and sellit and, and share it with the

(10:47):
world.
But a lot of people, you're noton fire.
Right.
We're just, we're we're creatingfrom our mind and our ego, and
especially with musicproduction, I always, I make a
clear distinction.
There's a difference betweenbeing a producer and being an
artist.
I like to work with artists,right.
Being a producer is, youunderstand the math and science
of how music, music productionworks.
It literally is math andscience.
Right?

(11:07):
And, and now the best proof ofthat is I can go into fucking AI
and.
Uh, and give it a couple promptsand it will make a song, right?
It, it, it can be made bycomputers because there's an
algorithm and then there's aformula, and it's straight up
math and science.
That's, that's being a producer,being a dj, being a producer,
being an artist is creating fromthe heart, creating from the

(11:29):
soul, right?
When you're like, am I, do Iactually have some fire inside
of me, inside of my chest,inside of my belly, inside of my
fucking soul that I wanna bringto the world?
And now it's not one or theother.
You definitely should alsounderstand the math and the
science.
Uh, this is a great example ofduality.
It's like the masculine and thefeminine.
You know, it's, it's, it's both.
It's not one or the other.
The symbol of the yin and yang.

(11:50):
It's like, yeah, it's, it is.
It's the symbol of both of themcoming together, working
together, cohesively.
I think that there's a lot ofpeople that are just being DJs
and producers and you're justtrying to learn the formula and
we're downloading the samplepacks and we're learning the
techniques.
But are you even, are youfucking lit up in the first
place?
Are you on fire?
Do you have something to say inthe first place?

(12:12):
And this goes into your brandingas well.
A lot of this is where in myprocess, a lot of people are
struggling with marketingbecause they're skipping over
this really important step,which is branding, which is just
like figuring out like, what areyou actually all about?
What is, you know, on a deeperlevel, what are you actually
trying to say?
You don't know how to, youdon't, your marketing sucks.

(12:34):
'cause you're not sayinganything.
All you're saying is like, oh,hey, I made a song.
Check it out.
Please listen to it.
Like.
Cool.
There's a hundred thousand songsbeing uploaded to Spotify every
single day.
Right?
You gotta have something else tobring to the table to, from a
business perspective, just tobring to the marketplace, which
is creating your brand.
When I work on with people onbranding, it's like we gotta go

(12:54):
really deep and get to the coreof like, who are you?
What are you all about?
What lights you up?
What's your message?
Right?
What's what's, what's your ownpersonal swag and flavor and
tone that literally nobody elsehas?
That's the shit to figure out.
If you can figure that out,figure that out in the music,
you can figure that that out inyour brand.
Okay, now you got something totalk about.
Now let's go market that shit.

(13:15):
But we're skipping over thatreally important step.
This brings me back to ourepisode that we did on your
podcast,'cause we did talk a lotabout the marketing and you
know, we did go deep into the,it's so sad that people don't.
Know how to market because they,they, and I know we promised we
weren't gonna talk aboutmarketing, so bear with me for a
second because this isimportant.
But, you know, I, I feel so badfor people because they have

(13:36):
such a nasty taste of marketingin their mouth.
And from what you just said,that it's, from my understanding
is that if you take marketingwithout that fire in the belly.
It's sleazy and scammy andnasty.
I mean, you think about, it'slike what's, what's at the heart
of the used car salesman that'sjust ripping you off?
Nothing great.

(13:56):
I mean, it's gross, right?
It's just nasty.
But then what's at the heart ofsomeone that's trying to market
their music that they pouredtheir heart and soul into, and
it's so uniquely them, and noone else could ever create
something like, you know what Imean?
It's, it's, it's that, it's thatfire.
If you don't have that fire, themarketing's just kind of nasty
and icky and, but if you havethat fire, it, it means so much

(14:16):
more.
So it really just comes back tothat fire still.
It, by the way, please do it.
That foundational pillar of, ofthese kind of five pillars of
success that I call them of asof mindset, well, it, it touches
everything.
It's everywhere.
You know, your, your mindset isgoing to affect, you know, your
mindset.
Lately, I've been also callingit like your, your heart set.
You know, your soul set.

(14:37):
It's like, it's not just the,the mindset, but yeah, it
influences everything.
Something I've been talkingabout lately is like, what?
What is the energy that all ofit is coming from?
Right?
And I think there's only twodifferent types of energy.
There's the energy of fear andscarcity, and then there's the
energy of faith and abundance,right?
One of them is expansive, one ofthem is retractive.

(14:59):
And I think for a lot of people,if you actually look at, where's
the energy coming from?
If you're feeling pressure tomake music, you're feeling like,
what I see a lot with artists isI'm running outta time.
So I feel this pressure that Ihave to work really, really hard
to make this happen.
I'm like, okay, well is that, isthat energy expansive?

(15:20):
And coming from a place of faithof like, I trust the process, I
trust the universe.
I know that, you know,everything is gonna work out
perfectly.
Right?
And I, and and, and I'm comingfrom faith.
I'm coming from inspiration.
I'm coming from love.
Or is that energy coming fromfear?
Right.
I'm scared that I'm gonna runoutta time.
So on the surface, it might looklike, okay, I'm grinding really,

(15:40):
really hard.
Like, okay, well what's theenergy like?
A lot of people are succeedingthat way.
They're making it happen, butthey're bringing that energy
with them.
So now you're winning, you'resucceeding, and, and take it
from me.
I'm working with headliningartists that are touring, and
it's like, okay, well cool.
Now you're touring and nowthere's more pressure.
Now you gotta keep making musicand you gotta stay relevant, and

(16:01):
you're comparing yourself toeverybody else, right?
That energy is just it.
It's what the whole thing wasbuilt on in the first place.
So it's not going anywhere.
Right.
So like on a very deep and basiclevel, like that's my big thing
that I try to get people toshift into is like shift out of
fear, shift out of scarcity, andstart learning how to operate
from abundance, right?

(16:22):
That's, that's the inside outgame.
I gotta find that place insideof myself where I wake up every
day and I feel like I am really,I'm, I'm, I'm in a safe place.
I feel like my job and my dutyis simply to create, to express
myself, to share my gifts, toallow the creative energy of the

(16:42):
universe to work through me.
I trust the process.
I'm not coming at this withstress and scarcity and concern
and worry that's gonna polluteanything I ever make.
I even noticed for it, noticedit with myself.
If I have the stress of I needto make content so that I can
get new clients, so that I canfill my program, so that I can
make money, so that I can pay myrent, it's like, uh, it's all

(17:04):
coming from a.
Ugly place.
And that's gonna be felt in thecontent that I make, that energy
is gonna be felt.
And so I have to catch myselfsometimes, even if I'm on a call
with a client of like, oh, do I,do I have the energy of
desperation?
Like, oh, I need, I need to signthis person.
I, you know, I need to getsomething from this versus, oh
no, like I'm completelyunattached.

(17:25):
I'm like, yo, if you want to, ifyou wanna get down and you wanna
have some fun, then you want togrow and you want to expand and
you want to play and like, cool.
Like let's get it.
Like my energy is so differentwhen I'm unattached.
And guess what?
I signed 10 times the amount ofclients when I'm coming from
that place.
And usually if you're creatingfrom that place, creating from
the place of, I'm unattached,I'm not chasing labels, I'm not

(17:46):
comparing myself to otherpeople.
I'm not like trying to chaseother people's success.
I'm just like, no, I'm just, I'mjust making music.
'cause I love making music andI'm having a lot of fun doing
it.
Usually you're gonna see betterresults doing that, and
definitely you're gonna enjoythe process a lot more.
I am extremely interested inknowing more about this fear
energy or this faith energy.

(18:07):
So those are the two terms youused, right?
If we, if we look at thetotality of the people that you
have, what do you say, lifecoached?
Like mentored what?
What do you Life coached?
Yeah.
If you look at the totality ofthose people, and this ranges
like you were saying, everyonefrom, you know, just beginning
to headlining, touring artists,what is probably the most common

(18:31):
fear energy that is evokedthat's like, oh, yep, there it
is.
We're in its ugly head.
Again, there's, there's that onething that always shows up, the
big one is the fear of runningout of time.
That's a really big one.
Like fear shows up in so manydifferent ways, but that's a big
one that I see of like, oh, theclock is ticking.
I'm gonna run outta time.
I'm getting older.

(18:51):
Right, every and, and comparingyourself to other people, um,
just generally there's just thefear of failure, right?
Like, what if I don't make thishappen?
Um, or what if I put all of thistime into this passion, this
dream and this career and it,and, and then it doesn't happen?
It's like the fear of, yeah, notonly just failing at it, but

(19:12):
then the fear of like, what do Ido then?
You know, I, I didn't pursue anormal path.
I didn't pursue a, a normalcareer.
Uh, there's the fear of nothaving money, right?
The fear of, of putting all thistime and this energy in and
having nothing to show for it,like financially, right?
And, and losing that time whereyou could have maybe been
building a quote unquote normalcareer.

(19:33):
So when that fear is there,it's, it's affecting, I.
Every, you know, it's, it'sleaking into the process and
it's going to affect how youshow up, right?
It's gonna affect how youcreate.
So, and, and again, it's likelife isn't about being fearless.
Also, like fear is a part oflife.
It's also scary to go for the,to go for it, you know?

(19:55):
It's, and, and fear, I think isa, it's actually a beautiful
thing.
I think fear is the compassthat's pointing you where to go
rather than what to avoid.
And fear is always gonna bethere at every level.
It's about having couragethough, really.
Fear is there and it's just whatdo you do with it?
Do I let that fear stop me frompursuing my dreams and my goals?

(20:19):
Or do I use that fear as acompass and I lean into it?
And in which case, that justmeans my courage needs to be
bigger than my fear.
I just live a courageous lifeand I do the things that I'm,
that I'm scared of.
Right?
So yeah, the fear might bethere, but it's like, okay, we
can't let that fear influencehow we show up.
Right?
Like, okay, I see you, Irecognize you.

(20:39):
Yeah.
This is, this is scary.
Yeah.
There's some fears of, you know,I have fear of rejection, I have
fear of failure.
I have fear of losing it all.
Like, okay, cool.
It's there and I'm not gonna letyou get in my way though, uh,
of, of sharing my gifts and, andbeing a creator and being an
artist and, um, yeah, pursuingwhat lights me up.
Quick side quest with this idea.

(21:01):
Okay.
And we'll get back to it.
Um, I know you really wanted totalk about authenticity, which
I'm very excited to hear about.
I promise that's coming.
Sure, patience.
Um, but it's a quick side questwith this.
I believe we even talked aboutthis on the last episode that we
did on my podcast years ago.
I would love to know yourthoughts about this, this
concept.
So we that speak English, havekind of painted ourself into a
corner where there's these twooverarching large concepts that

(21:25):
we force into one word.
And that word is fear.
Because, for example, if Ibrought you to my house, Nick
and I set a box of black widowsin front of me and I said, Nick,
I need you to put your hand inthis box of black widows.
You would feel what we'd callfear.
And I'm assuming you wouldn'tsay, well, this, you need to
lead into this.
Of course you need to lead intoit and put your hand in the box.

(21:46):
Right.
Um, you know, that's, that'sridiculous.
Um, you know, so we have thisthing that keeps us alive, this
fear, if you, if we wanna callit that, they call it that, we
call it alive.
But then there's clearly theother thing.
If, if we came to, if you cameto my house.
And you were, you know, you wereterrified to go hiking with me.
It's fine, Nick.
I'll keep you safe.
Don't worry.
But you were terrified to gohiking with me.
You know, that's clearly anappropriate time to lean into

(22:08):
that fear.
It's like, no, come on man.
Like, we'll have a good time.
It's good for you to get out andsee stuff.
So I, you know, we kind of havethese two overarching categories
that we kind of force into thesame word.
I just, I want to paint thisclearly because.
You know, I, I've heard peoplebring up that argument before,
but it's like, well, does thatmean I need to, you know, like
live on the edge, you know, to,because I'm afraid to go live on

(22:31):
Skid Road.
Does that mean I need to leaninto it and do it?
And so that's why we, as Englishspeakers kind of painted us, we
should really have two differentwords.
One that's like, you know, thisthing that's keeping you alive
and this thing that's keepingyou from thriving.
Right?
But we both use fear to do that.
Is that, you see what I'msaying?
Am I, yeah.
Am I just rambling?
A thousand percent.
You know, a lot of people saythat our.

(22:52):
You know that thatself-protective part of ourself
that has fear, that is, youknow, also what we would also
call our ego.
Just like there's this part ofour brain that is constantly
analyzing and judging everythingand basically determining is
this dangerous or not?
And people hypothesize that.
This comes from thousands ofyears ago when we were like.

(23:13):
Caveman, you know, like livingout in the, in the wild where
it's like, yo, there were sabertooth tigers and shit, and we
had to be on alert.
So we have this part of ourbrain, this primal, primitive
part of our brain where we'relooking out for danger and it's
to ensure our survival.
But now here we are years later,thousands of years later, we, we
don't live in those sameconditions, but we still have
that same evolutionarybiological part of ourselves.

(23:35):
Like we're constantly lookingout for danger.
So it's not a saber-tooth tigeranymore, but now it's putting
out a piece of content andhaving everybody laugh at you or
putting out music and, uh, youknow, having nothing happen,
right?
Or, or, or reaching out to arecord label and, and being
rejected.
So it's not necessarily the fearof physical danger, but it's the
fear of psychological andemotional danger.

(23:57):
And so we have to be able todistinguish that.
Right.
And I love that you brought up,should we live on our edge?
My answer is yes, but your edgeis different.
Everybody, everybody's edge isdifferent.
Going and living on skid rowthat might be edgy, really edgy.
For some people that might be sofar out of your edge that it
would break you.
It's not your edge.
That's like be way beyond youredge.
And for some people thatwouldn't even be an edge at all.

(24:19):
They're like, yeah, sure, I'llgo do it.
So for each of us, I think it isimportant that we, that we, uh,
to live and, and I don't know,like you determine what kind of
fucking life you wanna live.
If you wanna live.
A boring life where you never doanything that, that excites you
or scares you.
Okay, cool.
I don't think that that's how wewere designed though.
I don't think that that's,that's what, you know, our

(24:40):
creator, whatever that may be,you know, how we were designed,
I think that we were designed tohave this, uh, impulse inside of
us that wants ex, it wants toexpand, it wants expansion.
And, and, and for us to expand,we have to keep finding out
where our edge is.
Right.
So, you know, the things thatare edgy for me right now, I was
just sharing with you before,I'm excited.

(25:01):
'cause in my business I justfinally am doing a ma a free
masterclass.
And I like set up an emailsequence where it does like
automated emails that hasterrified me before.
I've been like so scared of likeemails and technology, like I've
claimed.
I'm like, I'm not a.
Uh, techno technological person,you know, that's been my thing.
And, and, and, but you, youcrush it at that.

(25:22):
You're like, dude, like this is,this is my zone of genius.
I'm so good at this.
You know, so my edge isn't youredge.
Right?
And, and so I think it'simportant that we all kind of
find out where that is.
The problem is a lot of timeswhere we have conditioned
ourselves so much to let thefear take over that we're just
playing a really small game.
You know, one of the biggestexamples I use all the time is

(25:45):
like, artists just reaching out,like reaching out to record
labels as what I call justshooting your shot.
Like hit up your favoriteartist, go hit up a, a, a
stranger, you know, somebody inthe industry ask to take'em to
lunch, ask, you know, like, see,like put yourself out there.
Uh, a lot of people are scaredof that.
And then you don't realize howmany opportunities you're
actually missing out on.

(26:05):
Right?
Or what might be an edge is, youknow, like Miami Music Week is
happening right now.
Maybe your edge is like, go buya plane ticket and fly to Miami
Music Week by yourself and justgo out and party and network
with people that, that might besuper edgy for people.
But you know what?
That might be the edge to stepup to that allows your life to
10 x.
That, that, that not only on theexternal world, allows you to

(26:26):
develop relationships andconnections and helps move your
career forward, but also helpsyou become a different kind of
person.
The amount of expansion in yourinternal world where you're
like, I just pushed myself alittle bit.
I stepped into that edgy.
You know what, I became a littlebit more confident through that.
I believe in myself a little bitmore now.
It's like I actually, I actuallyfeel like I'm capable of, of
even more.

(26:47):
If we're not challenging ourselfand stepping to our edge, we
never know what we're actuallycapable of.
That is great, and I'm reallyglad you, you went into
describing the physiologicalresponse that happens, right?
Because that's, this is sonerdy, Nick.
This is so nerdy.
Let's, let's get fucking nerdy,bro, with, uh, with all the,
the.
The therapy that I've went toand the, the psychologists that

(27:10):
I've went to, they haveexplained the actual process and
the part of the brain thatlights up, it's called the
amygdala, right?
The amygdala is what isresponsible for keeping you
alive, right?
That's if I gave you the box ofthe black widows and told you to
stick your hand in it, it wouldbe your amygdala.
I actually have two, so it'samygdala I or amygdalas, I don't
know.
Anyways, so one of those, bothof'em, some of them.

(27:30):
Somewhere we'll light up andsay, don't you do that, that's
gonna kill you.
And they are doing their job.
They're doing their fan, they'redoing fantastic.
You know, the amygdala is thething that stops you from going
180 down Main Street.
It's don't touch the hot stove,you know?
Yeah, exactly.
And so you need that.
But you're absolutely right thatin our modern day and age, the
amygdala, for lack of a betterterm, becomes restless, right?

(27:51):
And it sees threats wherethreats are like threats of your
life, where those threats whodon't exist, like in public
speaking, reaching out to, uh,the, the, the, the record label,
reaching out to your favoriteartists to see if they want to
do something, whatever, right?
Starting a podcast, whatever.
You're releasing your music, theamygdala goes crazy.
And those are the feelings offear that most people are

(28:12):
having.
They feel like their life isthreatening, even though they
may not be able to put words toit, right?
They feel that that internalstress, their heart starts to,
to beat faster and, you know,anyways.
And so I love that we can bringthat up and be like, listen,
there are real life threats.
And the amygdala is doing theirjob, but probably most of the
time it's probably just screwingup.

(28:32):
And you have to be able to say,my life is not in in danger.
It's okay.
I can lean into this fear athousand percent.
Because you know, if I thinkabout, think about every big
artist that you see that's outthere, that you look up to,
they're living the dream.
They're touring, they're doingall of it.
There are.
Probably a thousand otherartists that could be doing

(28:54):
that, but are sabotagingthemself in some way because
they have, you know, the, thatinternal fear, the, the stress,
the anxiety, the whatever it maybe is stopping them and blocking
them from putting themselves outthere in that way.
And, and that's like, it's like,it's like the invisible parking

(29:15):
break.
That's what I'm always lookingwith people.
'cause here's the thing, Ibelieve that every single one of
us comes to this planet with thesame amount of potential.
Right?
Like the minute that you wereborn, like how much you, you,
you, you're, you have five kidsor about two, right?
Like you have, you're, you're,you're creating a farm of
children over there when theycome on, like the minute that

(29:38):
they come out.
How much potential would you saythat that.
That human has with a, with acompletely blank fresh slate and
canvas ahead of them.
I would say maybe it's cop out,but I would say infinite, you
know, like there's, there's nocap on their potential that I'm
aware of.
And if there is, it's so largethat it's basically infinite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's certainly, you know,there's different opportunity.

(30:00):
You're b burn born into acertain country and a certain
house, certain situation,certain resources.
Yeah, for sure.
But as like a, as a spirit, youknow, the actual human
potential.
'cause we also hear stories ofpeople that were born with
nothing that go on to become,you know, like super successful,
wildly huge leaders and worldchangers, right?
So the potential of the humanspirit, I would say, for all of

(30:21):
us when we come here is like,yeah, it's infinite.
Right.
And then at some point,somewhere along the way, we
start to get conditioned.
We, we know, we learn how to, westart learning how to walk, how
to talk, we, how to think, howto believe, right.
Our, our, our family and schooland religion and life opera life
experiences, they, it juststarts to conti condition us and

(30:41):
we start to create a self-imageof what we think actually is
possible for ourselves.
Right?
And I think the artists that goon to, one of the big things
that a lot of artists have thatreally are at that level is
they, they just believe in theirpotential, right?
Tony Robbins has this thingcalled the success Cycle, where,
you know, basically looking at,you know.

(31:04):
How much potential do youbelieve that you have?
If you believe that you have aninfinite amount of potential,
then you will show up and youwill take certain actions,
right?
You, you will, you will takedifferent actions than somebody
who thinks that they only have asmall amount of potential,
right?
Because if you have a smallamount of potential, well then,
okay, well I'm a, I'm, I'm onlygonna show up, you know, and

(31:26):
kind of put in half the amountof like effort and energy,
right?
And, and then.
When I put in half effort andenergy, I get kind of half-ass
results, and those half-assresults start to reinforce that.
Like, see, I told you I, I, thisis, this is all I'm capable of.
But it also works the other way.
If you really believe inyourself, you believe that you

(31:46):
have infinite potential and youstart, you just take massive
action.
And like you, you wake up andyou make music and you grind and
like you, and you do it from aplace of belief, right?
You go out and you shoot yourshot and you build your bi like
you, you act that way.
You start to get differentresults and then those results,
you start to get, you know,really great results.
Those great results thenreinforce your, your, your

(32:07):
belief about yourself.
I think I actually can do this.
I actually do believe this ispossible.
All right.
Um, and, and this is where Ialso bring up like who you sur
who you surround yourself withis so important too.
I think this is why IconCollective was, was so
successful in a lot of ways.
Because you start, you startsurrounding yourself with people
that are really ambitious andthey do believe in themselves

(32:28):
and they do work really hard andthey start getting results.
It, it is possible.
My friend is doing it.
Look, if they did it, I think Icould do it too.
It's like a lot of this has todo with belief.
'cause when you believe inyourself, you just show up in a
different way.
But if you're, if you're notseeing it, if you, if you're
hanging out with like, nobody'sreally popping off, nobody's
getting after it.
Everybody's like, you know,you're, you, you start doubting
and complaining.

(32:48):
I mean, I see so much shit aboutpeople complaining about the
music industry.
It's not the music industry.
It's you.
It's you and your mindset andyour attitude and your energy.
Because the industry is the samefor everybody.
And there's a lot of people thatare killing it.
There's a lot of people that aresucceeding and they're the ones
that they believe in themselvesand most likely, they also
probably aren't sitting aroundcomplaining either, right?

(33:08):
So.
Clean it up, y'all.
I'm, I'm starting to, to believethat, you know, the term mindset
is synonymous with, with thetherapeutic term, which we call
mindfulness, right?
Which is just being aware ofwhat are you feeling?
Why are you feeling, whattriggered you to feel that way?
What are you going to do withthose feelings?
I, I'm assuming the, theantithesis or the opposite of

(33:32):
what we're talking about, themortal enemy of what we're
talking about is.
Not taking account of what youare feeling and not taking
account of the thoughts that youare thinking and just allowing
them to run wild.
You know, you feel something,you don't know where you felt
it, you don't know whattriggered that feeling.
You don't know if you like it,if you don't like it, whatever

(33:52):
you, you're, you're almost likejust hopping into a lizard brain
and you're just kind of likegoing with whatever electric
impulse that is happening insideof your brain.
Am I, am I on the right pathwith understanding what you're
saying?
Yeah.
You know, I, what I talk aboutin, um, I have a group coaching
program that I do, and one ofthe weeks we really get into
what I call mental programming.
Like your mind is, is thecomputer system of your body,

(34:16):
right?
It's just a, it's just a part ofyour body.
You have your heart, you haveyour brain.
I think you also have a spiritand a soul.
You know, we have, we have allthese different parts of
ourselves and your, your, yourmind is just one of them, but
your mind is like the centralcomputer operating system and
now.
Like I was saying, when we startour life, we have this blank

(34:37):
slate of infinite potential.
The program hasn't been writtenyet, but then it starts to get
programmed.
And we first things, first, westart to be programmed by our
parents or whoever raised us.
We start to be programmed byculture and society and our
neighborhood and, and theeducation system.
Let's talk about the educationsystem that just tells you to

(34:57):
sit there in a chair and raiseyour hand when you gotta pee.
And it's like, it, it, it drillsus to think a certain way.
And now also, you know, even,even today though, we're being
con, we're being programmed allthe time.
We're being programmed by socialmedia.
Uh, every time you're just doomscrolling or you're watching the
news, you are being programmed.
And so a big part of my processis to wake up, right?

(35:18):
That's the mindless autopilotof, I've just been being
programmed.
I've been allowing my mind to beprogrammed.
There's this moment where it'slike.
You know, Neo taking the, the,the red pill and the matrix,
right?
Where just like you wake up andlike, and got to realize like,
wait a minute, I can starttaking control of that

(35:39):
programming.
I have been unconsciouslyprogrammed, my mind has been
unconsciously programmed forprobably most of my life, right?
And so.
Now, like when I kind of wake upto out of the matrix, right, or
into the matrix and kind ofstart to, uh, recognize the
power that I actually have, thepotential that I actually have,

(36:00):
I get to re, I get to startreprogramming this computer
system.
Is this thing working?
Like to the, the best way thatit could be.
I mean, I've been, I've beenstudying and practicing,
practicing this for years and Istill have an inefficient
operating system in a lot ofareas.
Taking control of thatprogramming is so important.
Back to one thing I was saying,like, who are you hanging out

(36:20):
with?
Are you, are you hanging outwith people that are, that are
negative and pessimistic anddon't believe in themselves or
that are complaining?
I'm like, I have zero tolerancefor any of that.
That does not exist in my life.
'cause I'm very intentional withwhat kind of programming I
expose myself to.
Right.
And I, I was very lucky at, youknow, 21, 22 years old to get
introduced to like, personaldevelopment books.

(36:42):
So I started programming mymind, you know, reading these
books are really having aneffect on me.
Like, let me, I, and I juststarted devouring them.
I would drive around townlistening to Tony Robbins.
I remember spending$300 and uh,which was a lot of money for me
at that time.
And I bought a Tony Robbins CDprogram and I was listening to.
CDs driving around Hollywood,you know, in my early twenties.

(37:03):
But I'm like, I was listening tothat for hours, driving around
that, that it completelyreprogrammed my brain, right?
And so now I just, I thinkdifferently and because I think
differently, I act differently.
And because I act differently, Iget different results.
And when I get those differentresults, it reinforces the
belief of not only what I'mcapable of, but also just like,

(37:23):
yeah, what I'm all about and whyI'm here.
So we really get to take controlof our programming, and I think
especially in the sort of socialmedia age, and especially as an
artist where we're probablyspending so much time creating
content, putting stuff out,that's something I've been
thinking about a lot as well.
Just how consumed the wholeartist world is in, I don't
know, just making content and,and consuming content rather

(37:45):
than actually just making art.
You know?
That's, I think it's putting, Ithink it's putting out a lot of
people's fires.
Has there been a concept thathas been brought up in your
coaching sessions?
Where, you know, I'm assumingthere are a lot of things that
are brought up where it's moreor less a variation of things
that you've dealt with before.

(38:06):
You're like, oh yeah, this isjust, this is just the newest
iteration of, you know, peoplebeing afraid of time running
outta time, or this is thenewest iteration of people being
afraid of being judged orwhatever.
But is there been a fear orsomething that has been brought
up where you're just like, oh,I've never thought about that.
That is so interesting.
That is, whoa, I don't even knowhow to address that fear.

(38:27):
Like, is there, has there beensomething unique like that
that's come up?
Honestly, honestly, no, man,because I think like when you
peel away the layers.
It is, it is just the samething, honestly.
It's like it on like the mostbasic level.
It's, it's back to that two,it's like the fork in the road
of like, where's the energycoming from?
Right.

(38:47):
Whatever their problem is, it'sit, whatever the challenge is,
it's.
It's rooted probably in someform of fear.
You know, when when we pull the,the layers all the way back,
like, I can't say, nothing comesto mind where I'm like,'cause
also whether it's an artist andlike, I haven't only worked with
artists, you know, I've workedwith, I used to work with just
like everybody.
And it's like, whether you're anartist, you know, chasing,
chasing your dream, or you're areal estate agent, building your

(39:10):
business, or you're a momrunning the house, it's like on
the surface there's what seemsto be the challenge, the issue,
the problem.
But underneath it we're, we'rejust, we're all human.
We're all human dealing withlike thoughts and emotions.
We have dreams, we have desires,we also have challenges and pain
that we're trying to get out of.
And that's all it boils down to.
And it shows up in differentways, but it all ultimately

(39:30):
boils down to like what'shappening inside of us with our,
our thoughts and our emotionsand making sure that that's
getting in alignment.
Getting somebody from being in aplace of fear and retraction to
getting them into a place of, oflove and expansion and faith.
Then like, that's like the coreof it.
And on the surface it can look athousand different ways.

(39:52):
But yeah, there's nothing I'veseen that's like really blown my
mind.
I'm just like, yeah, you're justanother human trying to navigate
through some human shit rightnow.
Have you ever seen, um, it, itwas probably one of the most
enlightening mind blowing videosI've ever seen that that
explains the concept that we'retalking about.

(40:12):
Have you, have you ever watchedMinefield with a Vsso?
Have you ever seen that?
No.
No.
What's that?
So it's, it's, it's a seriesthat, um, have you ever watched
Vsso, you know, like Michaelfrom Vsso, right?
You're gonna this get blow, I'llsend you a link later.
Is this like a YouTube channel?
It's a YouTube channel.
And there was this very highlyproduced, um, video that he did
all about fear, the way that heframes it.

(40:33):
Right is that there is what'scalled, if I remember this
correctly, I apologize if Idon't, but it's, it's called
your Death web and you have youramygdala spider.
And so anytime you are afraid ofsomething, the spider will
connect it back to this maincore thing that you're afraid of
that will let you die.
So for example, uh, you sayyou're like running outta time.
Right.

(40:53):
Well, if you're running outtatime, the amygdala spider sees
that and it connects it to you,um, eventually dying or being
alone or whatever, which tiesback to obviously death or I am
a, I'm afraid to speak inpublic.
Well, that ties back to beingisolated because if I screw up,
people aren't gonna wanna talkto me, and if I'm isolated, I'm
gonna die.

(41:13):
And so basically it shows howeverything ties back to dying,
right?
Yeah.
To dying.
And, and also the, the, the bigones is like, yeah, the, the
fear of being alone and the fearof being not enough.
Which I guess is also, yeah, thefear of being not enough might
lead to you being alone.
It's like, yeah, the fear, Ithink it's the fear, the fear of
death and the fear of beingalone.
It's like those are the two,when you really, really break it
down, there's all the, there's,he has like, I, I think there's

(41:35):
like 10 or 12 different corethings that always lead back to
death.
So like I being isolated, um,being sick, being, uh, I can't
remember all of them.
Right.
But yeah, so that, that's why Iasked that question of, oh, I
wonder if there's ever beensomething that someone has said,
and if we could tie that back inthe, in the, in the death web.
Anyways, I'll send it to you.
It's super interesting.

(41:56):
That may be very helpful foryour work to be able to be like,
oh yeah, it's just that persontying it back to whatever.
You see what I'm saying?
As I become a better coach andI'm able to take people deeper,
you know, that I, I'm sure Iwill uncover some even more, you
know, just deep mind blowingstuff that's in there for sure.
So that's inspiring.
Please send that to me.
So we have went deep for thelast however many 30 minutes

(42:18):
about the mindset, why it'simportant.
You know, we, we came up withthe analogy of the roaring fire
in the inner hearth, right?
And the smoke that comes up fromthere.
One of the biggest concepts, oneof the biggest, uh, we'll say
one of the biggest mainingredients to this mindset is
this concept of authenticity.
I don't know how you can evenexplore the mindset or the inner

(42:42):
hear unless you.
Understand the, the mainingredient of authenticity, and
this is something that youreally wanna dive into.
It's something I really wannadive into.
So for those, I mean, there areseveral different definitions
for authenticity.
So what is the next Sherwindefinition of authenticity in
the context of what we've beentalking about?
Yeah.

(43:02):
I think that you are one out of8 billion people in the world,
and there's only you, there isno other Wyatt Troy.
Right?
Like you are the only one, I'mthe only Nick t Tru Wink,
straight up, you know?
And we get lost and out ofalignment with ourselves by

(43:22):
paying so much attention to whateverybody else is doing, right?
There's so many trends.
There's certain, certain clicksand labels and sounds and lanes
and, and ultimately, I.
We all want to be successful.
So we're looking at, well, whois successful that's out there
and what did they do to getthere?
And so it's one thing to take,you know, inspiration and to

(43:45):
learn from others.
But the danger is that itoftentimes can pull us off
course with actually reallybeing in our own lane.
It's like I am living my life,walking my path, and the more I
pay attention to what others aredoing, the easier it is for me
to get off.
Of course, of like.
What's, what's my path, right?

(44:07):
The What's, what's the Nick Tinkpath?
The Nick Tink journey.
And, and it's so funny, likebeing kind of in the, in the
coaching space, in the educationspace where like we're teaching
people like, well, this is howto do it.
This is how to do something.
And it's like, well, this is oneway that some people have done
it right.
And it's not the only way to doit at all, especially in, in
like climbing the ladder ofsuccess of the music industry

(44:29):
and everyone wants to know howto, how to make it right.
Well, I don't know, like, yeah,there's certain things that have
been done, certain people havedone it in, in certain ways, but
also like you get to pave yourown path.
You know, and so I think there'sthe authenticity of just your,
your journey as well, but alsoespecially for music producers
and creating art, it's like youget to create your own, you

(44:52):
know, there's, there's, the wayI describe it is it's almost
like a, there's like a radiodial, right?
Where, you know, like you areauthentically tuned to a certain
dial.
Like your, your actual channelis 1 0 1 0.7.
Uh, but a lot of times when I'mlistening to something that I
like and I'm like, oh, I reallylike what's happening on 95.3.

(45:13):
And so I'm trying to make 95.3.
'cause I really like it.
I'm inspired by it, but mynatural tuning is actually
something else.
So rather than looking at whateverybody else is doing,
following what, what otherpeople are, even what you're
inspired by, it's like.
Figure out like what your thingis, you know, what actually
lights you up?
What feels, and I think, Ithink, I think the, the compass

(45:35):
to follow is like, what do youhave a lot of fun making?
Maybe I like listening to this.
Maybe I like this, this style orthis scene, but like what
actually lights me up when I'min the creative process?
Right.
Um, I'm going through that rightnow where I'm looking at like,
okay, with my coaching, I'mlike, there's a lot of demand
for people that want help withmarketing and they want help

(45:56):
with branding.
They, they want help with themusic business stuff.
And, and I could chase that.
I can make a lot of money doingthat.
I have paying attention towhere's the energetic alignment
within myself.
I'm like, do I actually reallylove this?
Does it light me up?
Like what's the stuff thatlights me?
The.
And rather than chasing, okay,here's, here's the money, here's

(46:17):
the trends, here's theopportunity.
Let me really start to figureout like, what, what lights me
up the most, what feels thebest?
Like that's my, that's myauthentic lane, you know?
So I'm still even currently inthe process of really figuring
that, that out.
Like, what's the stuff I really,the type of people I love
working with, the type of work Ireally love to do, the type of
gift that I feel like I canbring to the world, that I can

(46:38):
bring to the marketplace thatliterally only Nick TRO can do.
Like that's like, that's thereal artist's journey is like
dead mouse was not likelistening to everybody else and
being like, how should I get onlike a, a, a certain label, you
know, what kind of label and howcan I be the most successful?
He's just like, this is whatthe, I like doing, you know, all
these innovators that, that alot of people look up to, you

(46:58):
know, Skrillex for everybody inthe bass music scene.
Like always, you know, he lovesSkrillex.
Okay.
Skrillex was not listening toanybody else and being like, oh,
I should do that.
Right?
He was just in the studio doingwhat lit him up, and that's why
he was so successful.
And so that's, that's like thereally hard, I think, kind of
fork in the road, you know, isthere's weird paradox of like,
all right, I want to besuccessful and this is what

(47:19):
people are doing to besuccessful.
So let me kind of follow that.
Um, while at the same time,what's probably gonna make you
the most successful is to not doany of that and follow your own.
Your own authentic lane and pathto be at that, at that really
like True, I think high levelof, of leadership and
innovation, if we continue youranalogy of the, of the radio

(47:39):
stations, right?
Applying what we've been talkingabout with the mindset, that to
me that looks like, you know,you said you were on what, 1 0 1
0.7 and you're listening over on97.9 and not, you know, and you,
you could be enjoying that.
You could be, oh, this is great.
I love listening to this.
I even wanna make stuff likethis, let's say.
But I think where most peopleget, I.

(48:01):
Lost in the weeds is then theybe, they are 1 0 1 0.7 and they
try to become 97.9, right?
Where I think the mindset waywould be what is working over on
97.9 and what resonates with mefor me to bring back to 1 0 1
0.7 to, to integrate into what Iam doing.
And, and so you're not becomingthem, you're not even copying

(48:22):
them.
You are seeing what works, andthen you're bringing it back and
putting it through your own.
You know, throwing your ownspice into it, creating your own
version of what it, or, orapplying.
So am I on the right path?
Am I, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
Totally.
It's just, you know, justgetting, getting inspired by
what's being done.
I also think like, like what'sso important, especially as an
artist, is go listen to a bunchof other stations, right?

(48:46):
Don't just listen to that otherone, and don't just listen to
the one that like, you alwayslike really like listening to,
like there's so much flavor andcolor and sound and.
Sensory fun things to play with.
There's so much adventure.
There's so much exploration.
This is why people lovetraveling the world.
But we usually are like sozeroed in on like this one

(49:08):
thing.
You know, I think even, even formyself, this is, this is what
was coming up for me recently.
I was sharing, like, I washaving some, some breakthroughs,
uh, around yeah, like I'm, I'mreally zeroed in on like the EDM
niche, uh, because that's reallygreat business advice of like,
niche down, you know, likereally get super clear on like
who your market is like, and asI get more tuned into like what

(49:30):
I enjoy, I'm kind of like, man,there's a lot of other flavors
out there.
There's a lot of other artists Icould be working with that
aren't just EDM artists.
You know, like maybe I, maybe Iwanna sign some rappers.
I'm actually working with ametal band right now.
It's like, oh, let me go like.
Play with some other flavors andsee what's out there.
See where the inspiration is.
'cause I, I think for me, it allreally boils down to, back to
that question, what lights youup?
You know, what, what gets youinspired?

(49:51):
Um, but yeah, certainly it'slike cool, like let's learn,
let's learn some, sometechniques and some stuff from
what other people are doing.
Cool.
It's a big difference betweenborrowing stuff or getting
inspired versus straight up justlike emulating and copying,
which, you know, there's just alot of, yeah, there's a lot of
that happening.
So what do you feel like is a.

(50:11):
Real life, tangible example ofsomeone not being authentic.
Like what is a classic exampleof these people that you're
coaching where you're like, oh,yep, that's a classic, um,
example of someone not living inauthenticity.
I think the easiest thing torecognize is just when you know,
you hear music and you're like,yeah, I've heard this song a

(50:32):
million times.
You know, like there's nothing,you know, unique about it.
Right.
And, and, and it, and it's hard.
It's like how do you kind offind your own, you know, your
own unique sound.
But, um, yeah, I mean, you heara lot in music and I don't want
to, you know, I, I, I'll be thelast one to talk shit about
anybody's music.
'cause I'm, I'm not even makingmusic, so who the fuck am I to

(50:54):
say anything about that?
Also, you know, you can just seeit in people's marketing as
well.
Like, there's so many trends.
You know, when you're, whenyou're like, that's, I think
that's one of the biggest onesis you just see people hopping
on trends of like, oh, this is,you know, what?
Is going viral right now.
So like, let me start dancing inmy video, or let me do this or
let me do that.
And it's like the wholeintention from where it's coming

(51:14):
from is, I am, I'm chasingsuccess, right?
Like, oh, that worked forsomebody else.
Okay, let me jump on this trend.
Let me try to do that.
Uh, rather than coming from aplace of actual, like just
self-expression, right?
Maybe like, maybe if the trendis really cool and you're like,
I'm excited to try that.
This feels really, really fun.
And, and there's an energy ofexcitement that's very different

(51:37):
than what I see a lot are peopleare like chasing trends and then
they're like.
They don't even care about it orthey don't even want to, they're
like, oh, like I have, I have tomake content.
I have to be doing this.
And the energy behind it islike, well, you're not, it's not
ent, it's not authentic to you.
You know, if, if there's thatfeeling of incongruency, that
feeling of resistance, thenthere's, then that's not

(51:59):
authenticity.
That's, you just likebegrudgingly chasing trends.
'cause you think you have to dothat to be successful.
You know, I think that's thebiggest thing a lot of artists
are really going through.
Oh, I have to play the contentgame.
It's like, well, what's actuallyauthentic to you?
You, I mean, yeah, you, youprobably should because it's a
great way to build a fan base.
But if you feel like you haveto, then there's some sort of

(52:22):
misalignment there becauseyou're not actually tapped into
like, what's your authentic wayto express yourself?
You know?
So social media is a really,really big one to unpack.
Um, and just creating content aswell.
You brought up a memory that Ihaven't thought about for a
while, but have you ever donemuch research into, or, or
heard.
About the concept of truecommunity versus pseudo

(52:43):
community.
You ever done that?
No.
This is exactly with what you'retalking about right now.
So, pseudo community is actuallyvery dangerous.
And so we, we, as individuals,and actually going back to the
death web that we were talkingabout, we want a community, we
want a community for manydifferent things.
Not only just because we don'twanna be isolated, um, but we
want, you know, friendship.
We want, you know, fulfillment.

(53:03):
We want to be able to havemeaningful relationships,
meaningful conversations, and domeaningful activities and so on
and so forth.
And so a real community is.
There are people, whether it'syou and me, just as friends,
Nick, or it's, uh, us as a, amusic production community or an
EDM community or whatever.
A real community is a communitywhere people can be authentic,
they can show up, they candisagree, they can agree, they

(53:26):
can uh, they can bring upcounter arguments.
They can reinforce goodarguments, they can do whatever.
It, you are not just.
Um, you're not being a pseudocommunity and a pseudo community
is the people in the communitywho absolutely disagree.
They're absolutely hate certainthings that are going on.
They're not showing up as theirreal selves, but yet they kind
of just nod their heads and goalong with the status quo and

(53:47):
pretend like everything's okay.
And so I feel like a lot of whatyou're describing is a lot of
the members of the musicproduction community, uh, singer
songwriter, community, EDMcommunity, so on and so forth,
showing up as the pseudocommunity, they see these
trends.
They're not showing up as theirtrue selves.
They see this thing and theydon't wanna rock the boat.
And so they're like, well, it'sworking and people are, you
know, it's, people are gettingblown up from that.

(54:07):
So they kind of just nod theirheads and they're like, okay,
I'll do it.
And, and they'll kind of moveon.
We're showing up as a truecommunity would be, you know,
like if you see a turn that youdon't like, you can say it, you
can make fun of it.
You know, you can, you couldcreate your own version of it.
You could, you know, as long asyou're showing up as yourself
and as your real authentic self,then that's totally fine.
Is that, do you agree with whatI'm saying?

(54:28):
You bring up a really goodpoint.
I think as an artist.
Also part of the, you know, thefive pillars to success, uh,
from my perspective is alsocreating a brand.
Authenticity may or may not bepart of your brand, right?
Like, there your brand is anextension of you.
It's not necessarily who youare.
So sometimes you might have apersonal brand where, you know,

(54:50):
I, I am the brand, right?
Like my online brand is NickSwin.
Um, authenticity is one of mybrand pillars.
It's one of my brand values.
So it goes in there.
I think when you are being likea personal brand, there is a lot
more space and, and evenprobably desire for
authenticity, but also at thesame time, your artist brand.

(55:11):
Doesn't have to necessarily beyou.
It can be almost like acharacter.
It's an extension of yourself.
It's a story that's being told.
So, um, so yes.
I I like you're bringing up,actually, um, back to the
definition of authenticity.
You're reminding me of adefinition that I was introduced
to that I think is, is reallywhat you're hitting on, which
is, um, true authenticity wouldbe to actually be real and show

(55:37):
the whole thing, right?
I'm not, if I only show you.
The nice cool version of myself.
I'm not actually really beingauthentic.
This is something I had toembrace, uh, in my own personal
journey where I was kind of likejust a, a nice guy and I always
got along with everybody and I,and I never rocked the boat.
And I was like, but wait aminute.
There's this whole other part ofmyself that's like, yeah, I get

(55:59):
mad sometimes I get depressed,sometimes I get pissed off.
Sometimes.
There's this whole other almostshadow side of myself that I was
disconnected from.
That authenticity really meansthat I'm, I am the full
spectrum.
I'm in touch with the full, the,that, that full.
Whole spectrum of who I am, andif I'm really being authentic,
then it's kind of like, yo, ifI'm in a bad mood someday and
you encounter me when I'm in ain a bad mood and I'm being

(56:21):
authentic, then I'm gonna likelet you know I'm in a bad mood
and I'm not gonna pretend.
Right.
I think if, you know, we, we,yeah, definitely in the, in the
industry, we're oftentimeswearing masks where it's like,
okay, cool, I'm just gotta becool with everybody all the
time, and I'm pretending thatI'm, you know, a certain type of
way.
Uh, not everybody does, butthere is a lot of that.
There's a lot of ego, there's alot of Ask Ussing, there's a lot

(56:42):
of, you know, it's, it's in theentertainment industry, you
know, like there's a lot of thatthere.
Um, and at the same time, whenit comes to having a brand, you
know, there's a differencebetween your public facing
artist brand and then who youare as an actual person and your
personal relationships and howyou show up.
Hopefully on the personal side,you do show up authentically,
but also at the same time as, asan artist with a brand, you

(57:03):
don't have to show.
Your fans all, everything, allthe time and, and Rock the Boat
or like your brand, you know,like Marshmallow is one of the
biggest fucking EDM brands inthe world.
I wouldn't, you know, there's,there's piece, there's parts,
you know, the, the brand fits ina box where it's like, you know,
there's gonna be a lot of stuff.
That, that that actual humanbehind the brand doesn't show,

(57:26):
you know, I mean, literally it'sa masked brand, but it's like
the brand also stands for likecommunity and connectedness and
it's very positive and veryjoyful, you know, so it's like
that's what goes in the brandand there's certain things that
don't and, and that's okay.
That's actually really greatbranding.
So some, sometimes you don'twant to, you don't want to be
authentic with your artistbrand, you know, if you're

(57:47):
having a bad day, you don't needto go out there and, and share
all your, all your personaldirty laundry with all of your
fans all the time.
It brings up a much biggerconcept that frankly I don't
even know how to begin toaddress.
Right.
Which is, we can agree thatauthenticity is a main
ingredient into this, into thismindset that we've been talking
about, and how much of a mainingredient is, you know.

(58:10):
That, that is not only up fordebate, but it's up for debate
on a daily basis.
It's up for debate depending onyour brand.
It depends on where you're at inyour brand.
It depends on where you're atpersonally.
And it, there's so manyvariables and so it's so hard to
quantify what true authenticityreally is and what it should be
and what it shouldn't be.
And you see what I'm saying?

(58:31):
Like this is a, this is such amuch bigger brain conversation
than, than I intended to, butit's not.
Yeah, yeah.
We're, we're, we're fucking deepdown the rabbit hole right now.
Yeah.
It's not, it's not black andwhite.
I mean, I think, you know,initially the conversation
around authenticity was justlike, for me, in a big way of
just like boiling down to like,are you.
Just kind of chasing trends andchasing sounds and chasing

(58:51):
success versus are you actually,you know, as an artist really
expressing what feels real andwhat feels true for you, you
know, especially in the studiowith your music.
Um, you know, I, I think, uh,yeah, it's hard man.
It's, it's, it's hard'cause itis a business and there is a
truth about marketing.
You know, I think what's truefor a lot of artists is they
also, you know, like makingdifferent styles of music, but

(59:14):
also putting out a bunch ofdifferent styles of music might
not be the best thing for yourbusiness.
It might make more sense to justlike only put out a certain
style because that's what yourbrand is and, and that's who
your specific market is, thatyour marketing.
So yeah, again, there's there,there's no right or wrong way.
Um, but I think, you know, backto.
The fire as long as whateverthe, whatever you're doing,

(59:35):
you're doing it with, with somefire, and you're keeping that
fire lit and you're, you're,you're staying passionate,
you're staying excited.
I think it is also part of a, anartist's job to push the
boundaries a little bit.
You know, it's like, okay,maybe, maybe this is a little
outside of my brand, but let menot be scared of that.
This is who I am, this is whatI'm inspired by.
This is what I'm, what I'mexcited about.
Artists sometimes are playing itmaybe a little bit too safe, you

(59:57):
know, where if there's somethingon your heart and your soul that
you wanna share and you want toexpress, whether that's
musically or whether that'sthrough your, your brand and
your content, I say, fucking gofor it.
We need more of that.
Do you know the rapper, um, nfyou ever listened to NF before?
Oh, dude.
Love him.
Okay.
He's sick.
Okay.
Yeah, he's so good.
Amazing.
Do you know the song Mansion?
You listen to that song?

(01:00:18):
Mm, I'm not sure off the top ofmy head.
Okay.
So, so it's one of his olderones.
But this, this completelyapplies to what we are talking
about.
So in the song Mansion, NF talksabout his mental mansion and how
there are rooms that you knoware absolutely destroyed inside
of his mental mansion becauseof, you know, horrible,
traumatic events that havehappened.
There's, there's rooms that hemakes all pretty, and that's

(01:00:40):
where he brings his guests inand so on and so forth.
And where I'm going with this isauthenticity.
To me, if we're looking at this,the analogy of the, of the
mental mansion is that you arebeing open and honest about what
is in the mansion.
You are not telling people, oh,hey, I have a basketball court
in the basement, when really youhate basketball.
Right?

(01:01:00):
You are, you are just tellingthat to, to, to impress other
people or whatever.
Or you're saying, no, there'snothing wrong with my mansion,
when really you have cockroachinfested walls in one part of
the house and so and so forth.
Right?
But it's also, so that's.
The one end is you are lyingabout what's inside the mansion,
which would be, you areabsolutely not being authentic.
You are, you are lying about it.
You're just trying to, peopleplease.

(01:01:21):
You don't want people to judgeabout it.
But then there's the other endof the spectrum, which is there
are parts in your mansion thatare so sacred that only a select
amount of people can enter intothose rooms.
And you're honest about thoserooms.
You know, like, you're, like,those are, those are off limit
rooms.
Those are for, you know, thoseare for my, my people, or those
are for very select individualsthat I allow into those rooms.

(01:01:42):
But.
Like, you, you, you acknowledgethem, but that doesn't mean you
need to let everyone in them.
And that's a part ofauthenticity too.
I think that's what you weresaying, which we know that
marshmallow is a real person.
We know that he has insecuritiesand fears and regrets and so on
and so forth, but is he airingthose out?
No, but we know it exists.

(01:02:03):
And, and, but it would be Unainauthentic, inauthentic,
inauthentic.
In inauthentic for marshmallowto say, there's no sacred room
in my house.
That doesn't exist.
All the rooms are open.
You know that, that'd be a lie.
And that's, that's not true.
Do you see where I'm, where I'mgoing with, with the, with the
dimension that just made methink of, which is something
that I see.
A lot of touring artists getcaught up in, and I think this

(01:02:24):
is a really good, just sort offorewarning for artists that are
pursuing that path, that aremoving from making music where
this is really fun and it'ssomething that you're passionate
about, and then at some point itbecomes your career and it
becomes your job.
And you build a brand and youbuild an audience, and then they

(01:02:45):
sort of expect there's thisalmost expectation from you
about what you create.
Uh, I've seen a lot of artistsget caught up in it where, okay.
Uh, when it, it started thejourney started from a place of
authenticity.
I'm having so much fun makingthis shit.
I love this.
It's authentic, it's rad.
And because of that energy, itcatches on and everybody starts
to really follow you.

(01:03:06):
You're, you're, you're, there'sa lot of just really great,
passionate, authentic energybehind it, and artists starts to
become successful.
And now you start touring, andnow you're playing those same
songs all the time.
And now there's this pressure tocontinue to produce music and
specifically cater to thataudience.
And what happens for mostartists is you start to, you

(01:03:26):
start to evolve, you start togrow.
What you were doing five yearsago isn't necessarily, it's not,
you're not the same personanymore.
Right.
But I see artists sometimes getcaught up feeling the pressure
of like, I have to keep kind ofmaking this stuff even though
it's not really authentic to meanymore.
Like, I, I, I've, I've outgrownthat suit that I was wearing.

(01:03:47):
Right.
I've outgrown maybe that styleand that flavor.
And so I've seen artists thathave gotten stuck there.
And these are the ones that kindof become miserable.
And I get it.
'cause it's like, well, yougotta pay the bills.
This is your job now.
So you have to keep touring.
You have to keep putting outmoney.
Right?
So now back to the energy.
The energy is coming from fear.
The energy is coming from fearof like, I can't, I can't stop
doing what I'm doing otherwiseI'm not gonna be able to pay my

(01:04:09):
rent.
Right?
I can't stop the momentumotherwise I'm gonna lose money.
I can't take the, I can't dowhat I really wanna do and be
authentic because I'm gonna losefans if I do that.
Right.
And so now the whole thing isactually coming from fear and
that, and I've worked withartists that have gotten stuck
there because there's amisalignment with their
authenticity, right?
But then you have a lot ofartists that you can look at.
I think Porter Robinson is agreat example of someone where,

(01:04:31):
if you look at the journey ofwhat he was making, who's like,
he'd made some huge shifts ofjust like, all right, I'm like
multiple just styles.
You know?
He started making like tro, youknow, like when he was young and
now he's like, his brand hasshifted so much and he is just.
Stayed to be authentic.
Obviously Skrillex is a greatexample as well.
Look at what he's making todayversus dub, you know, the
dubstep stuff he started with,he just continued to follow.

(01:04:54):
Well, this is what's true.
This is what's authentic to me,and either you can get on board
or not.
A lot of artists are, oncesomething starts working and is
successful, they cling onto itand, um, don't necessarily, uh,
allow themselves.
To continue to be authentic.
Uh, one of the favorite examplesI use all the time is Ellis
Dream.
He used to be brills.

(01:05:14):
He had this great career and,and created this great project
making money.
Um, and then at some point he'sjust like, you know what?
I just don't really love thisanymore.
This doesn't feel authenticanymore.
This isn't really my, my, myscene, my, and, and, and rather
than clinging onto it andoperating from a place of fear
and saying, look, I I gotta justkeep milking this cash cow.
He said, you know what?
I'm gonna quit.

(01:05:34):
I'm gonna let it go.
I remember seeing him shortlyafter he had let it go, and I
remember him telling me, he waslike, yeah, bro.
He is like, I just, I droppedthe whole project.
I'm, I'm back to being a brokeartist.
I'm not making any fucking moneyanymore'cause I'm not touring.
But a year later he launched LSDream, right?
And he's doing what he, what isauthentic to him.
He has continued to follow thatlane of authenticity.
So that's really where I wascoming from with like

(01:05:56):
authenticity, right?
Like continue to follow that.
And, and I think it also back tofear and courage, like you gotta
have a little courage to beauthentic, especially in a, you
know, in, in an industry wherethere's just, you know, there's
so many trends, there'sexpectations, there's
comparison, there's all thismental shit to get caught up in
when your, when your North Staris.

(01:06:16):
What's authentic to me?
What lights me up?
What excites me, what inspiresme?
And you can, and you can, youhave the courage to keep
following that.
You have the faith to keepfollowing that, and you choose
that rather than choosing fearand, and, and, and unconsciously
choosing fear.
Allowing fear to make thosecreative decisions for you,
that's gonna lead you in areally cool place.

(01:06:36):
I got 18 different ways that Iwant to go with this, and
they're all gonna take aboutthree hours for us to go
through.
So, hey, should we do a ninehour podcast?
Yeah, that's right.
What are you doing the rest ofthe day?
I'll, I'll come, I'll come back.
We'll do a part, we'll do a parttwo.
Well, I guess part three.
Everyone go back and listen towhere, what we talk.
I don't.
I gotta go and listen to our oldone from, that was like five

(01:06:57):
years ago or something, or no,man, that was eight years ago.
Eight years ago.
Eight years ago, dude.
Oh, we're getting old, bro.
In the light of authenticity,you know, something that you and
I talked about.
Before we started recording, isyou wanted to be authentic about
what's going on with your life,and you've definitely talked
about that during this podcast.
Now we're gonna go really deepinto that.
Um, but with, you know, like theheadliner mindset, what you're

(01:07:18):
doing with your business, withyour creative endeavors, with
all, all the juicy details ofbehind the scenes, can you, can
you shine the little black lightinto the backstage of the
headliner mindset and NickSherwin's all, all the, all the
good stuff going on.
Yeah.
There, there's not too manyjuicy details to share about it,
but what I will share, and Ikind of implied to it earlier

(01:07:39):
is, you know, I am definitely,I.
Going through a self-reflectiveprocess of really questioning
like, yeah, what is exciting tome right now?
What does really feel authentic?
Right?
Like I was sharing that, youknow, the, the Headliner Mindset
podcast.
We do talk all about a lot ofbusiness stuff.
We do talk about a lot of, youknow, how to make it in the
industry and kind of thestrategy, uh, which is great.

(01:08:02):
And I, I love providing thatvalue.
I find, I mean, it's necessary.
It's, it's, it's a, it's, wecan't not talk about it.
And I think just in terms of myown coaching and also just in
terms of my own, you know, mycontent, which I really haven't
been putting much out of.
I'd really just repopulateclips.
Yeah.
I, I don't know.
I had a, I had like a, I satdown with chat GPT the other

(01:08:23):
night and we had like a date hadlike a three hour conversation
back and forth, just reallydigging in.
They're like, yo, like what,what really lights me up?
Like where is my, where is my.
Excitement, you know?
And, um, that was one of thethings that came up and what I
was sharing earlier of justlike, man, maybe it's not just
in dance music.
Like, I've been working in dancemusic for a long time, and, uh,

(01:08:43):
I don't wanna say it's gettingboring, but it's kind of like,
maybe there's some other flavorsout there to try out and to
expand into, you know, so I'm, Ithink I'm feeling a bit of a
desire to, I'm, I'm, I don'tknow where it's going, but I'm
at least in the stage ofexploration, right?
It's like if you're a dubstepartist and you've just been
making dubstep music for, foryears, um, allow yourself to

(01:09:07):
maybe spend a little bit of timeplaying with some other sounds,
some other styles, some othergenres, who knows.
You know, also so many times, Ican't tell you how many, just to
kind of compare this to theartist journey, there've been so
many times that I've seenartists, you know, have a
project or maybe have a coupleprojects, and then it's like the
second or third project wherethey, they, they, you know, drop

(01:09:30):
what they're doing and say, Hey,you know what?
This isn't really.
Working anymore, or I'm notsuper lit up and excited about
this, and they have a sideproject or, or they shift and
then that thing blows up.
And a lot of people are kind ofgrinding, trying to make that
first project happen where it'slike, maybe there's a
misalignment there.
Maybe it's not actually really,um, you know, again, maybe it's
not really lighting you up.
Maybe there's something else foryou to try out.

(01:09:50):
So I'm not saying I'm, I'm aboutto bail on what I've been
building.
Not, not, you know, not at all.
But there might be a shift.
You know, I might startinterviewing different types of
artists or different types ofpeople that I find, you know,
inspiring and just allowingmyself to explore and widen and
expand rather than being so, youknow, kind of niched down to

(01:10:11):
like, oh, like I, I only workwith electronic music artists
and DJs.
It's like, again, it's, it'sgreat.
It's great for business, it'sgreat business advice, but like.
I am not guided by that.
I'm guided.
My North Star is like, whatlights me up?
Where's the juice?
That's what I always say,where's the juice?
And so I'm kind of just in theprocess of searching for that
right now.
Like what actually is reallyexciting.

(01:10:32):
Every now and then I'll run a, Irun a men's group every,
whenever I kind of feel inspiredor I meet the right people, that
I think would be a good part ofit.
Nothing to do with electronicmusic.
It's purely just like doing likemen's work and, and helping
dudes become better dudes.
All right.
So I, I think I'm just in thatprocess of Yeah.
Exploring, um, where I reallywant to go with it.

(01:10:53):
And I think really what it,what's coming up is it's like I
want to go deeper into the woowoo thing.
Like, I'm a very spiritualperson and, you know, I love
talking about, uh, spiritualityand creative energy and, and the
muse.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople don't realize that
literally the word music comesfrom.
The muse, the muses, the museswere, I had no idea.

(01:11:14):
Nine.
The, the muses are the ninegoddesses of inspiration from
Greek mythology.
They were, they were these,these goddesses that would visit
the artists and the painters andthe poets and the musicians.
And, and, and you know, whenyou're, when you're in that flow
state and you get that lightningbolt of inspiration in Greek
mythology, they believe thatthat was the muse that was

(01:11:34):
visiting you.
It's literally where the wordmusic comes from.
Um, and so like, yeah, I, Ilove, it's like.
I, I don't think I really lovehelping people create, like,
content strategies and figureout how to get more, you know,
chase trends and get morefollowers on Instagram.
I'm just getting really clearthat like, that's not my thing.
You wanna have a deeperconnection to the divine and the
muse and, and learn how tochannel some, uh, some

(01:11:57):
inspirational ideas from theuniverse.
Like, yeah, let's go, let's goplay in that deep end.
Like, that's, that's what'scoming, coming through for me.
It's been very, very fun for mewhile we've been talking, just
to see this main ingredient ofthe mindset be interwoven into
almost everything that we'retalking about, because here you
are, you've created this thing,you've created this podcast,
you've created this businessmodel, so on and so forth, and
you've felt something, somethingwas off.

(01:12:19):
Maybe something wasn't sovibrant, or maybe something was
a little bit getting a littlebit boring, a little bit
stagnant, and instead of pushingthat off and just keep grinding
and keep working, you took athree hour date with chat, GPT.
And you said, let's lean intothat.
Why am I feeling that way?
How can we fix it?
What does that mean?
You know, is it so, I thinkthat's just so wonderful to see

(01:12:43):
that in action, right?
This, this entire ideology thatwe've been talking about is
currently taking place in you,in you with, with what you got
going on.
You are not, you know, you'renot this special case where you
never have to apply this system.
You apply this system all thetime.
I'm filling these feelings andnow I need to explore it.
Yeah.
I have always been guided by myintuition from really like a

(01:13:05):
really young age.
I've just had a connection to.
Feeling those little intuitivepoles, just those little nudges,
you know, it's like, like, likehaving a gut feeling or that
kind of like whisper in the backof back of your mind and there's
like the, you know, the logicalbrain that's trying to think
everything, the computer'strying to process everything.
But there's also just that, thatdeeper intuitive gut sensation

(01:13:27):
that has a lot of wisdom.
And I think from a young age,I've just always.
Followed that.
I've trusted it.
I've also not followed it.
Um, to be honest, you know, whenI was young, like I knew I was
supposed to be an artist, Iwanted to be a rock star.
I played the drums.
I wanted to be in a band.
Uh, even with music production,I started, I was producing music
in high school, like 15, 16years old.
And intuitively, I, like, I knewthat was the future.

(01:13:49):
And, but I didn't listen to it.
I didn't follow it.
I didn't pursue it.
And so when I, when you don'tfollow your intuition is also a
great way to get really strongwith it.
So, um, I've also followed it,uh, you know, moving to LA right
outta college and just likehaving this intuitive nudge of
like, oh, I think I wanna workin the music business.
Chasing that, taking those leapsof faith.
Um, more recently, you know howthis really aligns with being an

(01:14:12):
artist and my philosophy aroundbeing an artist is that I, I
believe that as, as an artist,you're just the vessel that,
that creative energy, all ofthose ideas, they belong to the
muses I.
They belong to the universe and,and the more you have an
energetic alignment with thedivine, with the universe, and
you allow yourself to simply bethe vessel, you get to receive

(01:14:33):
that creative energy.
You get to receive those ideas.
Your job is just to surrender toit, to open yourself up to it,
and to allow those ideas to comethrough you.
So while I may not be doing thatas an artist with music, I'm
definitely doing that in whatI'm creating.
I have a, a coaching group thatI run right now, which started
off just as this intuitive idea.
There was just this whisper inthe back of my mind that was

(01:14:55):
like, Hey, launch a coachinggroup.
And I was kind of like, what?
Like, no, that's a lot of work.
I don't want to do that.
What are you talking about?
You know, like my own sort ofego and internal resistance.
And finally I was like, I justsurrendered.
I was like, all right, whatever.
Like, I don't even know whatthis thing is about.
I like, what do you want tocreate through me?
And I allowed it.
I spent two months just makingthis program and it's like, I

(01:15:15):
don't even take any credit for,it's like I didn't create the
program.
The creative, the program wascreated through me.
And I'm so glad that Isurrendered and I obeyed and I
also showed up and I did thework.
But now I have, you know, 50people in like this incredibly
tight knit community of artists.
And, uh, and it's so, it's soincredible and, and I, and I

(01:15:36):
have these calls with them everyweek and I take a step back.
I'm like, this, this thingcreated itself.
You know, my job was just tolike, hold space and kind of
create the container to allowthe magic to happen.
And I think that that really is,you know what an artist does as
well.
It's just like, yo, those songs,it's like you, you hear when
people accept Grammy awardsoftentimes they're like, yo, I,

(01:15:57):
this song just came through meone night.
You know, this song just like,it, it, it, it, it, it just
showed up.
And it's like, yeah, that's,it's, I want to tap more into
that and I want to help guidepeople to tap into that because
the other option is to grind andcreate from a place of stress
and pressure and chasealgorithms and chase numbers.

(01:16:17):
Be pretty fucking miserable inthe process, and then actually
maybe get some success and thenbe launched into a career where
you're stressed out all thetime.
Having to keep up with that.
It's like there's just adifferent way of doing things.
And so I'm feeling veryintuitively called to, to as
much as maybe the podcast andthe demand from the public

(01:16:38):
wants, like strategy, you know,like I'm actually feeling very
intuitively called to kind of goin a different direction.
Not only can I feel this fearfor myself, but I know the o the
other listeners are gonna befeeling this fear too.
Eventually, somehow, some way asyou're leaning into that, as
you're leaning into yourintegrity and your intuition,

(01:17:00):
you're gonna get backlashsomehow.
Maybe this, the listeners of thepodcast that you know that they
expected one thing and nowyou're evolving into something
else, or you know, people justdon't agree with you or it's,
you know, just your common, uh,Twitter trolls that just want
to, you know.
Take out their dirty laundry onyou.
What?

(01:17:20):
What do you do, Nick?
When you start leaning into thatauthentic self, when you start
leaning into you following that,that inner voice, and there's
backlash, and I'm not talkingabout just like basic level
backlash where you kind of justlike your eyes roll into the
back of your head and you'relike, okay, whatever.
But like backlash that reallyhits you hard.
Maybe it's backlash from someoneyou really trust or backlash

(01:17:41):
from.
You know, they, they, theyreally like twist the knife on
an insecurity or something.
Like, what, what do you do aboutthat?
If you are, if you are the onethat's creating everything, then
your self-worth is gonna beattached to the result.
It's gonna be attached to, ifpeople like it, it's gonna be
attached to if people don't, andyou're gonna really feel the
effect of whatever the responseis.

(01:18:03):
If you just get out of the wayand recognize that, like, I'm
not even the one that's creatingthis.
I'm the vessel.
So regardless of what happens,then it's like, this is just
something that came through me.
The universe created this.
My ego is not attached to it.
My ego is not involved.
If it does, well, cool.
If not, whatever.
Right?
And so there's, there's.

(01:18:24):
There's an un, there's like anun attachment that comes with
doing that and being that, andagain, easier said than done.
We all have an ego and anybodythat created anything that was
worthwhile is also probablygoing to receive some backlash.
So it's like maybe even seeingit as a good thing.
You know, the, the example thatI like to use is when a vichi

(01:18:45):
rest in peace.
My number one favorite artistwhen he created Wake Me Up and,
Hey brother, uh, folk songs,right?
He was like a house music,progressive house dj and then
decided like, Hey, I amauthentically inspired to
collaborate with some of thesefolk artists and have acoustic
guitars and banjos and mix, mixthat with house music.

(01:19:07):
Came out to Ultra Miami andpremiered, uh, wake Me Up, which
completely.
Dr.
Like the half the fucking crowdleft'cause he came out with live
singers and artists.
I don't know if you guys havewatched the recent documentary
that came out.
Yeah.
Another documentary came outrecently.
The whole crowd, I'm talkingabout like, tens of thousands of
people were like, what the fuckis this?

(01:19:27):
And like, we're booing andwalking away.
Like he took a huge creativerisk and like two weeks later,
wake Me Up was like the mostplayed song on Spotify ever.
So the initial backlash, it waslike being misunderstood, right?
People didn't get it.
Um, but he knew what he wasdoing.
I think such a great example ofa truly prolific artist of

(01:19:48):
someone that was just like, Hey,well this, this is what wants to
come through me.
This is what's authentic to me.
And maybe people are gonnamisunderstand it, but you know,
it, it, it.
Eventually people caught on andhe created something.
Great.
So there's a question here tiedup into this, which is like,
yeah, how do you deal withhaters?
Um, I would rather, I wouldrather be dealing with hate for,

(01:20:10):
you know, me actually makingshit that I'm proud of and, and
that is actually like authenticto me than deal with haters.
Hating on me for making someshit that as isn't actually even
what I'm all about.
You know?
I don't know.
I fortunately haven't had todeal with that that much.
Um, I did at one point, Iactually posted a threads, like

(01:20:32):
I never used threads.
Like it kind of went, it kind ofblew up and, and created this
huge, you know, conversation andhad like, literally like big
artists like chiming in.
And a lot of people were likeripping into me calling me like,
you know, like, who's thisfucking bro, like talking to,
you know, artists.
I, and, and I noticed myself getreally defensive.
I was like, oh, that wasn't whatI meant.
I was trying to defend myselfand, and one, there was a big

(01:20:54):
lesson there and.
Be okay with beingmisunderstood.
I get dms and text messagesliterally every single day from
people thanking me for either,whether, whether it's the
content I put out the podcast Iput out, or like also just from
past clients, like literally acouple times a week.
I have, you know, I'vepersonally coached like hundreds

(01:21:14):
of people, people that don'tknow me, that might
misunderstand what I'm about andwhat I'm doing, and that's more
of a reflection of like who theyare and where they're at and,
and on their journey, and thentheir mindset and you know,
nothing but love to them,whatever.
Um, but the thing that I thinkwould get me through any of that
and has in the past is I'm like,I'm like, I, I know what I've
done.

(01:21:35):
Like, I got, I got a, I got along, a long list of clients
and, and, and to go all the wayback, you know, even further,
it's like I've, yeah.
I've helped enough people atthis point.
I've, I, and I think this iswhat it boils, boils down to,
you know, my heart is in theright place.
I'm never trying to manipulate.
I've, I've, I've been committedto service, right?

(01:21:56):
And I think if your heart is inthe right place, you're coming
from the right place.
You're, you're committed to, youknow, just sharing your gift and
sharing your art.
Like, okay, if mis, if peoplemisunderstand it, whatever,
that's on them.
It's not your job to convincethe world.
Uh, of, of, of your art or yourgreatness.
Um, but you just are here,you're here to just share your
gift.
You know, my gift is coaching.

(01:22:18):
My gift is serving.
My gift is helping.
That's my gift.
I'm committed to, to committed,to giving it.
I feel like it's my purpose,it's my mission.
You know, again, I'm a spiritualperson.
I, I truly feel that I've been,you know, chosen to do this
work.
And in the same way as anartist, I hope that, like you
feel that you've been chosen tobring your gift and your art to,
to the world as well.
And so that's about you and yourrelationship to the divine, your

(01:22:42):
relationship with just like yourmission and your purpose.
And, and if you're in alignmentwith that, then people
disagreeing with it andmisunderstanding you is, is not
really gonna make a bigdifference.
'cause you're gonna know whatyou're all about and you're
gonna know where your heart'sat.
I don't have anything that I canadd to that.
That was a beautiful, you know,capstone to, is that even, how
is that, am I using that termright?

(01:23:03):
That's not, I'm not using thatterm.
Is that right?
Okay, we'll keep it, we'll keepit.
Good job.
So, but that was a beautifulending to getting a behind the
scenes look into what's actuallygoing on with you, how you're
applying the mindset theology,if we will.
Probably just ideology or is ita theology?
Stay tuned for part three,you'll find out.
And so, so with that being said,Nick, let's move into some, uh,

(01:23:24):
rapid fire questions that we canask you and then we'll get to
the big question of what is thebest decision, one of the best
decisions that you've made foryour music career?
This is a perfect question foryou in regards to your coaching
and, uh, the headline or mindsetpodcast.
You know, what belief aboutyourself did you have to kill in
order to grow in your career?

(01:23:46):
Ooh, such a good question.
Gimme gimme a second to actuallyreally, that's not a quick fire
question, bro.
That's a key question.
Sorry.
Sorry.
There was a moment of impostersyndrome of, uh, feeling that I,
I am not, uh, validated.
In coaching artists, because I'mnot an artist myself, I got
caught up, caught up in thatbelief for a little bit that I

(01:24:09):
need to be an artist and I need,need to be walking the same path
in order to really be a goodcoach and be in service to
people that are, uh, that caughtme up for a little bit.
But, um, yeah, I've definitelybroken through that path and I,
and I really know that likethis, this is my, my authentic
radio frequency, my lane of myspecial gift, uh, that I get to

(01:24:33):
give, you know, it's like noteverybody, not everybody, not
every Super Bowl coach, uh,that's coaching a football team
to the Super Bowl has alsoplayed in the Super Bowl.
It doesn't mean they're not agreat.
Coach that can winchampionships.
You know, my, uh, medical doctoris not a podcaster and yet, uh,
he's my medical doctor.
I don't need a medical doctorthat was a podcaster to know how
to help me.
I just need him to be a medicaldoctor.

(01:24:54):
Right.
And so it's the same concept,right?
So I agree with you.
I think that the impostersyndrome could have killed a
really beautiful baby that youwould've had, and you got over
that.
And now we have you, which is atrue gto our to our community.
Okay.
The next, uh, rapid firequestion, I'm starting to
realize that most of these arenot rapid fire questions.
I'm just, I'm not good at havingsmall conversations.

(01:25:15):
And so rapid fire question islike, what's your favorite
movie?
Yeah, yeah.
What color shirt are youcurrently wearing that's black.
Oh, this shirt, this is the one,you know, what's an unpopular,
controversial opinion that youhave about the music industry?
You have shared a lot, butwhat's one that you haven't
mentioned that it's less aboutthe music and more about the
person.
You know, we, we, we touched onit, but you know, everybody is

(01:25:37):
focusing on.
The music and the brand and themarketing and all of this stuff.
A, a above the surface, the tipof the iceberg.
But, uh, I think that if, if youbecome the right person, then
you know, you, you, you need towork on yourself more than you
need to work on your career.
If you become the right person,then you can become successful.
Right.

(01:25:57):
And I, I think that that's the,maybe the unpopular opinion and,
and we see it, you know, I thinkfor artists that are really, um,
yeah.
That really are successful.
There's sort of this, there'sthis X factor.
I.
That they have.
Right?
And, and, and that is, um, Ithink almost like that's at the
foundation of all of it.
I think that's potentially moreimportant than any big like

(01:26:18):
marketing strategy or campaignwith the people that you've
worked with and people thatyou've coached, what is one of
the number one things that theyabsolutely waste money on?
But you see this commondenominator, they waste money on
this thing.
You're like, just stop, stopwasting money on that studio
equipment.
Right.
You know, you always need the,the, the next plugin, the next
big thing.
And.

(01:26:39):
I think that can limit youactually from just being
creative.
I think it's more about what youdo with the tools that you have
rather than just the tools.
So that's one of the things Isee people, yeah.
Spending, you know, a ton on, ontheir equipment where it's like,
it's more like you just need tosit down and like get to work
and stop chasing the next shinyobject.

(01:27:00):
You don't need a jackhammerbefore you learn how to use a
regular hammer.
My guy.
Like learn how to use thathammer to every little bit that
you can before, beforeupgrading.
Am I right?
Alright, so our final rapid firequestion is, what is a question
I.
That people never ask you, butyou just wish they would usually
like, come on, be like, this isthe time they're gonna ask and
then they never do and thenyou're all disappointed.
What is that question, my guy?
Dude, these questions are sodeep.

(01:27:22):
I'm so sorry.
I try to be simple and it comesout deep.
I'm so sorry.
Nothing rapid fire about this.
A question that lemme wrap myhead around this.
A question that I wish peopleasked me or just like even, even
either more or they literallynever ask and you're like, I
really wish someone would ask methis question.
I think a question that peopledon't ask, but I would love to

(01:27:45):
hear is, how can I be a moreloving and giving person?
Because I believe that if youjust become a more loving and
giving person, that's like whatyou're putting out into the
world.
You're putting that energy outthat.
It's all gonna come back to youtenfold.
Right?
So rather than looking at like,Hey, how can I build my

(01:28:06):
following and blow up my career?
It's like you're kind of askingfor like, how can I take rather
than how can I give more?
Right.
I think if people start askingthat, um, yeah, it would be a
really big game changer becauseyou, uh, brought up spirituality
and theology a little bit beforein saying how you're super
interested in that.

(01:28:27):
I have a comment about this andthen we can get into the last
question if that's okay.
Do I have your permission?
Is that right?
So something about that being amore loving and giving person.
I'm, I'm reading a book rightnow.
It's called The God Who Weeps.
You ever heard of that book byTerrell and Fiona Gibbs?
It's.
Oh, I would recommend everyone,even if you, even if you are
hard atheists, there's no,there's no bigger power.

(01:28:50):
There's no anything.
It is, the concept of it is justbeautiful to even imagine a God
that weeps.
Right?
And the implication of that isit's a God that cares.
It's a force that cares.
It's a God that is invested inyou, right?
That that cares about you andyour success and so on and so
forth, right?
But in it, it really examinesthe concept of what sin is.
You know, depending on thereligion and the belief, what is
sin and the kind of the, thedefinition that they land on,

(01:29:14):
which I feel like completelyapplies to what we've been
talking about and what you justsaid.
Sin is when you cause harm toyourself or someone else, right?
You intentionally.
Harm someone your yourself orsomeone else, right?
Where the opposite of sin islove.
You intentionally help someoneelse.
You prevent, you intentionallyprevent harm from someone else.

(01:29:37):
So in, you know, in religiousterms, by being more loving and
giving, you are not onlypreventing sin in yourself, but
you are helping prevent sin inother people, so on and so
forth.
And so anyways, it justcompletely reframed my entire
ideology around sin and what sinactually is.
You know, it's not these weirdlittle like cultural rules that
if you break, then that thatdispleases a god, a very, you

(01:29:59):
know, punitive God in the sky.
It is, it's all wrapped up inthe concept of love.
You are, you are, you are.
Sin is just when you are hurtingsomebody, you know,
unintentionally causing harm tosomebody or, or sorry,
intentionally causing harm tosomeone where love is the exact
opposite.
You are intentionally preventingharm for other people.
So that was just beautifullittle tie in to what you said.

(01:30:19):
Do you have any comments on thatbefore we move on?
Yeah, I, I love it.
It's, it's, I think it's just.
Whatever you focus on is gonnagrow.
You know, if you want, um.
More things in your life to begrateful for.
Practice gratitude.
If you wanna feel, feel morelove in your life.
Like give love, uh, if you wantmore abundance, you wanna
receive more, give more.

(01:30:39):
Uh, it's kinda like karma, youknow?
Like whatever you put out iswhat you're gonna get back.
And um, yeah, a lot of us arejust kind of putting out the
wrong things, you know?
So yeah, put out, put out more,put out more love and see what
that does for your life.
So with that being said, thatbrings us to the end.
We're gonna fulfill our promiseand the great mythological Nick

(01:30:59):
Sherwin is going to share withus what is one of the greatest
decisions that he has made forhis career in music.
So, Nick, take it away.
What is it?
My guy?
You know, I gotta be a littlecheeky with this and actually
say that the best decision, um,is also the same as what I said
before, as far as it being, youknow, the worst decision.
I don't actually really think itwas the worst decision that I

(01:31:20):
had made it actually, I.
Really was the best decisionthat I, that I made, uh,
because, um, I, you know, I, I,I passed up that opportunity to
work at Icon Collective, whichwas just me teaching an hour of
music business once a week.
But that unlocked this thinginside of me that I didn't know
that I had, which was being ateacher, worked at Icon for

(01:31:43):
seven years.
And it just absolutely changedmy life, you know, so while I,
you know, maybe didn't climb theranks of, you know, throwing the
biggest music festivals in theworld and, and going deep into
that part of the community, um,I trusted my intuition and
followed this sort of.
Trail of breadcrumbs out intothe, the wilderness.
And, uh, that path has like, ledme to what I'm doing today,

(01:32:06):
which I have like an incredibleamount of fulfillment doing in
terms of working with artistsand the capacity that I do.
So, you know, it's, it's, it'sfunny, it's, I think it's just a
great lesson in here that it's,um, sometimes your, you know,
those moments, maybe thosemoments, um, you know, the
biggest challenges in our lifecan also become the, the, the
best moments as well.

(01:32:26):
You know, not that necessarilythat was a challenge, but it was
like it was a fork in the road.
And, you know, you can look backon certain forks in the road and
be like, that was the worstdecision.
But it's like, all right, well,how, how could it have also
maybe actually been great?
You know?
So, um, that definitely workedout for me pretty well.
That was an amazing trademark.
Uh, Nick Sherwin answer.

(01:32:47):
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Dude, this is awesome.
I got two final things to goover with you.
First off, if someone wants toget into your world, they're,
they're absolutely convincedthey've never been more sure in
their entire life that they needNick Sherwin as their life
coach.
How do they go about that?
How do they learn more aboutyou?
What, what, what's their nextsteps?
Yeah, the best way would reallyjust to be, reach out directly,
uh, through Instagram.

(01:33:08):
So you can hit me up.
It's Nick TruLink,N-I-K-C-H-E-R-W-I-N-K.
Uh, should be pretty easy tofind.
But yeah, follow me, send me adm.
I'm, I'm very, uh, approachableand accessible there.
We can chat about, uh, settingup a call.
You also can just go to mywebsite.
You can learn a little bit moreabout me there, nick tink.com.

(01:33:29):
And, uh, you can book a callthrough the website as well if
you, if you wanna hop on and,um, yeah, so yeah, either
Instagram or my, or my websitewould love to connect with you.
Then the final, final question Ihave for you is I.
Who is someone that you'd liketo come on this show?
You would love to learn from'em,and you'd love for them to go
deep the way that we were justgoing in right now, you know,
who's that guy for you?
Or girl who, who's that person?
Well, my, my number one pick formy podcast someday would be Rick

(01:33:52):
Rubin.
So I hope you can get Rick Rubinon, on to your podcast and then
introduce me to him when you do.
I, I, I think that we went deeptoday, but I think that he could
go, you know, 10 times deeper aswell.
Well, Nick Sherwin, my guy, youare an amazing human being.
You are my surrogate father thatI, you know, look up to you.

(01:34:15):
You're in my mind most of thetime when I'm thinking about
what would my dad think of meright now, I just picture you.
And I'm like, he'd be proud ofme.
He's, you know, Nick, Nick'sproud of me for what I'm doing
with all my, you know.
Dozens of children that runaround my house.
That sounds so bad.
So proud man.
I mean, it's, I, it's funny yousay that.
I'm, I'm looking up to you.
And the time comes, you know,for me to have a kid, which is,
you know, hopefully in the nextfew years, I feel like I'm

(01:34:36):
ready, you know, getting readyfor that.
I'm like, all right, you're,you're the first guy I'm
calling.
This guy's been doing it.
He knows what's up.
So yeah, man.
If you need me to, to fly out,to show you how to set up the
stroller in the, in the crib.
I got wish me how to swaddle ababy.
No.
Thank you so much, man.
Any final words before we, uh,before we wrap up?
Uh, just right back at you,brother.
It's really great to.
You know, still be connectedafter all of these years.

(01:34:56):
It's been quite a journey.
It's really been cool to seewhat you've created for
yourself.
And, uh, I also equally reallyjust look up to you, everything
that, you know, you've createdwith your business, the way that
you're serving the community.
Uh, it's, it's, I just have aton of respect and it's just
really cool to, yeah, to be backon the podcast.
I can't believe it's been eightyears, so thank you for having

(01:35:18):
me on.
And, um, yeah, man, can't, can'twait to to see you in person,
hopefully, and, and stayconnected.

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