GRAHAME FARMER - How DJs Can Grow a Real Fanbase in 2025 - Headliner Mindset

Episode Transcript
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Grahame Farmer (00:00):
there's so much money to be made in streaming.
There's so much money to be madein, in Spotify and SoundCloud
and YouTube, and.
The only people that say thatthere's no money to be made in
it are the people that dunno howto do it,

Nik Cherwink (00:23):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast, and this week's
episode, we dive into the nittygritty of how to grow your
audience as a DJ and producer,my guest, Graham Farmer, has
literally written the book onInstagram growth and has a
YouTube channel with over 50,000subscribers where he breaks down
the best strategies formarketing yourself as an artist.
So grab your notepads and let'sdive in.

(00:45):
Graham, what's up brother?
Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.

Hey, thank you for having me.
I love your podcast.
So thank you so much for having,it was such an honor to be on
this podcast.
I've been listening to it somuch.
so thank you so much for havingme on.
It's, I'm really excited.

Dude, the honor is all mine, you know?
Thank you for shouting me out.
That was how we originally gotconnected.
I did an episode in the pastwith Joe Wiseman, who runs
Insomniac Records.
I.
Awesome episode For anyonethat's looking, wanting to get
signed into the insomniac world,did a great episode with that.
And then Graham, you have thisincredible YouTube channel and

(01:19):
it was really cool to see like,I'm like, oh, there's like other
people kind of talking about mystuff out there too.
It was like repurposing contentand I think that was kind of the
first time that it happened.
I was like, hell yeah.
So

nice.

for the shout out and you know, introducing my
stuff to your people as well.
Um, I would really love to startoff.
By just digging into what is itexactly that you do, because you
are a coach as well, in a sense,you're helping artists with
marketing.
I know there's a lot ofdifferent things to do, but tell
me it is what it is exactly thatyou're helping artists with
these days.

so basically I started a website called Data
Transmission 17 years ago.
and Data Transmission is nowthis ma it, it started as a blog
and a music website, and it'snow kind of as music blogs that
all music blogs have done.
They've expanded and now they'rekind of.
Channels on SoundCloud andSpotify playlists and YouTube
channels and, and this massivemedia kind of space that that

(02:13):
is, you know, that is everythingthat our blog is these days.
so I started that and I grewthat and one of the first things
we did with data transmissionwas started SoundCloud, and I
really love SoundCloud.
I grew a SoundCloud.
The biggest one I've got now is190,000 followers and we've done
like 150 million streams on it.
One of the tracks uploaded is anearly, it's just about to break
10 million plays.

Wow.

Um, from that, we've grown other SoundClouds
that are.
Is one of them is our datatransmission radio.
So the other part of the datatransmission is it's a radio
station and we have like 180people hosting shows.
I've been people, it's DJs,producers, record labels, event
promotions.
They all host their own show onour online radio station.

(02:54):
and then the final part of datatransmission is we have five
record labels.
So data transmission is its ownrecord label itself.
That's the kind of main label.
And then we have a.
DT weapons, which is kind oflike new talent.
They kind of start on DTweapons.
We release a few on there andthen if they, if they start
growing as well, then we kind ofhope that they'll progress onto
the main, onto the main label.

(03:14):
Then we have a drum base label,uh, DT DMB,'cause we have a
whole drum base side.
Which Shelly, my partner runs.
So I do house, tech house.
She does drum based jungle and Ido disco and techno as well.
Then we have a label called 63B, which is like a deep tech
minimal label.
Basically, I used to work at anightclub called Terminals
Nightclub in London, and 63 Bwas.
Basically it was 63 B ClarkAndwell Road.

(03:37):
So I kind of bought, I kind ofpulled in the old from, that's
where date transmission startedin the, in the club.

Yeah.

so I kind of pulled that and that's a deep
tech minimal label.
I really like it, really groovy,kind of really great music.
and we have a completelydifferent strategy for that
label, which is so fun.
And then we have a disco labelcalled Disco Infiltrators, uh,
which we just launched.
Two weeks ago with a track frommyself.
Uh,'cause sometimes I DJ underan alias called Ron Mexico.

(04:03):
Uh, he's kind of in the fancydress box and we tuck him away
in the fancy dress box, uh, overChristmas.
And he only comes out for thefestivals and we open the fancy
dress box and he comes out withthe Rackers and a, and a trumpet
and, you know, he's just, he'sjust sort, we just kind of put
him away for the moment.
But we have this label calledDisco Infiltrators and for
anyone that knows LCD soundnessand will recognize disco
infiltrator as one of thetracks,'cause I've absolutely

(04:23):
love them.
So that's data transmission.
And then from data transmission,like 2017 or 20.
What you in now?
20?
No, 2015 I started working witha young artist called Ben
Sterling and another one calledArchie B.
And basically they used to, Iused to help them kind of get
track signed and like I just didit on like as a, as we were

(04:46):
mates and we're hanging outloads.
And Ben was lives from where Ilive in Milton Keynes.
And literally would just meetup, listen to his tracks, I'd,
I'd kind of connect him.
We went out when he got, when hegot old enough'cause he used to
come with his dad'cause hewasn't, he was still really
young then.
And him and his dad used to comearound our house.
Then when we got older, we tookhim out to clubs and took him
networking and helped him getloads of tracks on.
And then some point 2017, he,Jamie Jones started playing five

(05:10):
of his track, which I'd sent toJamie.
'cause I met Jamie at SnowBombing in 2011, I think, or
2010.
So I've been kind of workingwith Hot Creations from a DT
point of view for all that time,and then helped him get those
tracks signed and then theybasically took off and he
exploded.
So basically after thathappened, there was this, like,
I had this like mad aha moment.
Well if Ben's struggling withall this stuff.

(05:32):
So many other DJs must startwith it.
And that's when I started myInstagram account

Mm-hmm.

uh, I changed the DT YouTube channel into my
own YouTube channel'cause itwasn't really doing much.
My YouTube channel then is I.
Is literally artist developmenteducation and like I look at
things like Instagram.
I look at how to grow on Spotifyand the importance of Spotify.
I look at how to get demossigned and that's why I kind of
looked, I was, we'd done a kindof series where we've been
looking at how to get signed totour room and how to get signed

(05:58):
to effected, and I was like, ithad been on my list of things
like I have a lot and a list ofYouTube.
Titles that I wanted to do andhow to get designed to insomnia
and then, and then your videocoming along, I was like, this
is perfect.
It's like basically all theinformation is in that video and
I just need to kind of chop itup and put my, put my two
pennyworth in.
And what I think from the kindof bits that were said,'cause

(06:19):
there was a lot that was said,but there was a lot that was

Yeah.

not said in, in, in the gaps.
And you kind of, if youunderstand the bits in the gaps,
'cause you know the space thenyeah.

I have an idea.
You show me your list of whatare, what are the other labels,
what are the other videos thatyou wanna make?
You give me a hit list.
I'm gonna go get all those dudeson the podcast.
We'll interview them and then,and then we'll send all that
over and we'll make YouTubevideos out of it.
We'll get a, we'll get a littleecosystem going on over here.
We'll tag, we'll tag teeing'emfrom different angles, so you

(06:48):
just let me know.

That sounds sick.
Yeah.
So, um, so that was my, andYouTube and Instagram started,
started 2017 and then Iliterally didn't do anything
with it for a year.
And then the end of the year Iwas like, well, I'm gonna start
coaching artists and I'm gonnado one-to-ones.
And I basically put it out therethat I was gonna do one-to-ones.
And I thought I put out, I had10 spaces for 10 DJs.
This was after like a year ofbasically just giving loads of

(07:12):
information, loads of stuff, andjust.
Really not asking for anything,just giving everything like, and
we had 250 sign up

Wow.

I was like, and I was like, whoa,

Yeah.

is, this is mental.
And we took basically 20 on.
And then we did that for likethree years.
And then from that, then I builtmy course, the Artist Blueprint.
Uh, I've written a book.
Uh, I have a, I have a minicourse on Instagram.
I have a big, I have a Mediumcourse, the Arts Blueprint.
Then I'm just about to releasesome bigger courses as well.

Love

that's kind of my course ecosystem.

it's so cool to hear what you're doing.
'cause there's obviously,there's a lot of alignment, you
know, with what I'm

Mm.

I'm just a little bit more, I've kind of been a
bit more behind the scenes, uh,kind of working through just
more so word of mouth.
Like I, I, I post on Instagramand I'm just stepping into the
like, wait a minute, let meactually like, put more content
out.
And the podcast is obviously,you know, kind of.
Put me more out as like a publicfacing figure and stepping into,
you know, kind of the coursegame over this last year as well

(08:09):
have, have a course too.
So it's an exciting space to bein and, and really what I think
you hit on, a huge point, whichis that there is a lot of people
out there trying to figure out.
How to do this right.
And a lot more than we can everactually really, take on
ourselves, you know?
So it's just great to see otherpeople kind of in that space
with the same mission of helpingartists and specifically helping

(08:32):
electronic music artists, youknow, make a career out of their
art and out of their passion andfigure out how to navigate this
game.
So I'm really excited to diveinto that with you.
Uh, I also love that you just.
You come from a long history ofbeing in the game, you know?
how long did you say it's beensince you started Data
Transmission?
You said that was like

17 years.
And then before that I workedfor a nightclub.
I've been in the industry forlike 22, 23 years now.
I worked for a nightclub.
I worked for Terminal Mills,which is a nightclub in London
for like five years, and learnedso much in that space.
So yeah, I've been in it a longtime now.

Yeah.
So you've seen the evolution.
You've seen it all change.
You've seen it all shift.
You know, I, I started gettinginto the electronic music scene
in LA around 2009, so it waslike, uh, yeah, 15 years.
But just seeing, especially inthe United States of seeing how
it really exploded over here.
It went from being undergroundto being, you know, so

(09:28):
incredibly mainstream and, Justthe constant evolution of the
industry, right?

Hmm.

that's always changing, especially in terms of
how do we market ourselves.
So, I'd love to really just digright in and get into, I think
the question that everybody isasking and trying to figure out
is like, what's the best way topromote myself as an artist?
And we can take that in a coupledifferent directions, but let's
start on the, on the contentside.
You know, everybody wants togrow their audience, right?

(09:55):
your perspective right now in2025, what's the best way to do
that?

Do you know what I tell my students is, do one
platform really well.
there's a big.
Thing that you have to be oneverything.
You have to be on everywhere andeverything,

Yeah.

and you have to be on that all at once.
And I spoke about that for alittle bit for a while, and then
I was like, this is draining.
Like I do two platforms, formyself, Instagram and YouTube.
I have help doing them.
I have an editor that edits myvideos.
And so if it was just me, Iwould do one platform really
well, with doing one platformreally well, you literally spend

(10:33):
all your time on it.
from a social media point ofview, like you learn like all of
the trends and all the littlethings that work and little bits
of content that work and youlearn.
Like if you think Instagram forinstance, it's got six or seven
surfaces that you can put on andI, when I mean surfaces, it's
got reels live.
Posts stories,

Yeah.

notes, broadcast channels, you know, each one of
them's a surface.
And you've gotta have a strategyfor each, each little part.
And if you are doing everythingelse, then you can't have a
really good strategy for thatplatform.
And the, each of those surfacerson that platform,'cause each
one, each one of those littlesurfaces will have a different
strategy.
So just do one really, reallywell and then work out kind of

(11:12):
which one's gonna be your.
The one you talk on and the onethat's gonna be, you know, your
output.
So whether it's Instagram,whether it's TikTok or, or
sometimes whether it's just, youdon't wanna be facing you.
It could be, you know, X orthreads or something.
You're just gonna type, thatcould be your output.
Like, then the next point is,where's your music gonna live?
Like when you start, where's itgonna live?

(11:33):
Like for me, SoundCloud is sucha good platform.
Like so many people poo poohSoundCloud.
But the last five years there'sbeen such a shift when TikTok
and short form content came out,SoundCloud had this massive
rebirth and you know that it'slike SoundCloud dance, which is
actually a, a, a genre nowwithin SoundCloud, it's only
little genre is massive and thekind of audience within

(11:53):
SoundCloud is now 18 to 24.
Like we've had seen records get.
Signed from SoundCloud, justfrom a few social media videos
and they're pointing to a trackon SoundCloud and, and the
SoundCloud algorithm is so fun.
Like it acts like a socialmedia, so it's like it's gotta
have likes and it's gotta havecomments and it's gotta have
reposts and you've gotta, again,you can message people indirect,

(12:14):
you know, in the back end ofSoundCloud now there's a whole
fan section and you canliterally.
Message your top engaged fansand say, Hey, I've just finished
this new, this new thing.
Have a listen.

Hmm.

really just be in the weeds with, with just
your SoundCloud following.

I like that a lot of just seeing SoundCloud as a
social media platform, that's abig perspective shift rather
than just like, oh, my song justsits here.
You know, it's just adistribution platform.
But actually seeing it as like,oh, this is a way for me to
engage with my fans, and justseeing it from that perspective
is, I think very different thana lot of how most

Oh,

it.

totally.
Well, if you think about, if youthink about any social media,
it's got.
Comments, it's got likes, it'sgot shares, it's got messaging.
That's pretty much the kind ofstandard template of a social
media platform.
SoundCloud has all those, likeyou can, like I said, in in, in
SoundCloud for artists, thebackend, you can literally go
and see, right?
These are my two most engagedfans, but also these are my
least engaged fans, like, andyou can actually now pull them

(13:10):
down within.
These are my most engaged fansin the United States or the
United Kingdom, and I'm gonnasee who those are.
Imagine you are playing a tourand you are going to the United
States, and you go, right, I'mgonna go to the who's message my
top fans on SoundCloud, and go,I see you're in my country, or I
see you're in the uk, want tocome and hang out.
You can be my plus one.
And imagine that person gettingthat message and that that kind

(13:30):
of fan engagement, which is sokiller, you know?

You point to a really good, perspective as
well, which I like to alwayspoint out that like social media
is about being social.
A lot of times when we thinkabout content, everyone's so
focused on content.
How do I make content and uploadit and hope that people notice
me?
It's very, very different thanhow do I use this platform to be

(13:53):
social, to be a

A hundred percent.

and a connection point, a way to connect and
actually socialize.
With my fans and like send themdms and say thank you, and say
what's up?
And comment back and engage inconversations, ask them
questions.
Right.
Obviously it, it takes a littlebit of time and energy, but that
is gonna build a really strong,connection between your fans.

(14:16):
Ideally you don't want just abunch of vanity metrics and a
bunch of likes and, and a bunchof numbers.
It's like, I want actual fansthat I have a connection to,
that they're gonna come to myshow, they're gonna support me.
Like I would rather have athousand of those than 10,000
people that just happen to likea silly post that I made.
Right.

Yeah, a hundred percent agree.
Like the biggest reason peoplefail on social media is because
they post and ghost and theyjust literally think that's it.
They stick it up and they'regone and they miss the, like
you're saying.
It's a social network.
You need to be social on thisplatform.
You need that connection.

Yeah.

and that's what goes back to my point before,
like if you are only doing onereally, really well, then you've
got that little bit extra timeto, to build that community.
And that's essentially what the,the whole point of the thing is.
You're building your community

Yeah,

building a people that like what you do,
but also in the same mindset andthe same space as you.
I was watching this thread onFacebook the other day and it
was someone moaning about socialmedia and they literally had
this massive load of comments.
All of people moaning and I, andI was gonna go in and go, well,
you.
But then I thought, well, youfound your community.
You found a community ofessentially other moaning

(15:23):
fuckers that the moaners that isyour community.
Why don't you get them into aWhatsApp community?
Or what, where you can actuallytalk to each other and you.

and complain about your lives together.
Build a community around it.
Great

But you, but you, but you could.
That's your community.
And if you're all into the samemusic, then you are just the
Mona community.
But they all buy each other'srecords and you found your,
found your little community, youknow, like,

let's go.
That's so funny.
That's so funny.
But this, this is also a greatpoint too.
you and I are sitting herecreating more content together.
Helping people, inspiringpeople, sharing our message,
sharing this conversationbecause we connected on social
media at some point, you know,you dmd me or you tagged me in
something and we started havinga message together, it wasn't

(16:06):
just observing from thesidelines.
Now there's a relationship here.
Now we're collaborating.
That's another part of socialmedia that I think is so
important for people to remembertoo, is like, yes, it is about
building your audience and yourfan base, but also building your
network.
You know, there might be fansthat you could be collaborating
with as well.
You know, so just have moreconversations is really what I'm
getting at,

Yeah, a hundred percent.
Like once you start knowing yourfans and knowing your audience,
like they'll start puttinglittle comments in, and then you
turn that into content, likeyou're saying, like you can turn
that into content that becomes,and then they become deeper into
your community, and you arejust, you're just building this
community of people out, and youjust have to start one by one.
But I, I always think like, ifyou.

(16:45):
If you built one fan a day andyou just really like the person
that someone followed you todayand it was one person and you
literally messaged them andsaid, Hey, welcome in.
Or you sent'em a little voicenote, how long does that take
you?
No time at all.
But if you did that every singleday for a year, you'd be, you
know, 400 people bigger than youwere at the start, but you'd

(17:06):
have such a deeper connectionwith all 400'cause you were
messaging'em back and forwardAnd then like the other side of
that is, say for instanceInstagram.
Once you start DMing people,Instagram goes, oh, your
friends, like it's thealgorithm.
Algorithm goes, your friends,I'll show each other your
content.
So you're actually gonna getmore views on all your other
content because you're using allthe features.
IE using one platform at a time.

great point.
That is such a good technicalhack right there.
Instagram is going to recognizeyou as being important to that
person, and they're gonna

Yeah.

putting your stuff in their feed and your stories
are gonna show up at the, at thetop of their list.
So it's, and and what I'm, it'sreally funny we're bringing this
up'cause literally just before.
We got on, I was checked myInstagram real quick and I had
like two new followers, right?
Two new artists, two new, youknow, potential collaborators,
potential clients, potentialhomies.
Right?
And there was a thing in my headwhere I thought about that, I

(17:56):
was like, oh.
'cause I used to do that i'vehad my moments where somebody
would follow me and I'm like,oh, cool.
Let me just send them a messageand say, Hey, thanks for the
follow.
Here's a link to the podcast.
Check it out, hope you enjoy thecontent.
Just having a little two secondengagement, and I don't do that
anymore.
Right?
But they popped into my headthis morning where I was like,
oh, I should just like shootthese.
Shoot these guys a quickmessage, and really what it boil

(18:19):
boils down to is just.
Not being fucking lazy.
It, that

I

me

know.

seconds to do.
Right.
Just like, Hey, yo, what's up?
Thanks for the follow, here's alink to the podcast.
Or even engaging in a deeperconversation.
So, uh, I think that's what a,that's what a lot of this boils
down to is just not being lazy

honest to God.
I tell myself, Graham, stopbeing lazy.
Go and do that thing.
Or Graham, go make that thing.
I like, I literally, Graham gomake that piece of content.
Stop being lazy.

Yeah.

are, I don't care how tired you are.
Just go and make that piece ofcontent.
you'll thank yourself for it inlike, probably, probably 10
minutes after you've put it out.
Just go and get it done.
Stop being lazy.
I tell myself so much to stopbeing lazy.
It's mental.

So just to recap, so far what I'm hearing is one,
just really choose.
One platform really go in on it,really master that.
Don't worry about being on fiveplatforms and spreading

Oh, fuck that.

you know, too thin in different places.
I can see how that would be toooverwhelming.
then I also really love thispiece about like, even yeah,
looking at SoundCloud as a,social media platform in, in a
sense really emphasizing thisimportance around connection.
let's talk specifically aboutInstagram, because I feel like
that's the one platform thatpretty much every artist is on,

(19:30):
I think should be, obviously alot of people are on TikTok as
well.
What are some tips that you havefor really growing on Instagram
right now?

With the calls I have for my course, I literally,
I'd say 98% of people, I askthem, what's your main channel?
And their main channel isInstagram.
So I agree with you, like, um,tips for going on Instagram is
firstly, literally like, you'vejust gotta understand.
who you are posting for.
And you kind of like, if I, I, Idid a video the other day where

(19:59):
if I'm starting from, if you'restarting from zero and you're
thinking, right, I'm gonna startmy Instagram today, where do I
start?
So first and foremost, it'skinda like that little gather,
like just kind of gather a PAfew people that the same sound,
same music, same labels.
And it's not a follow for followthing, it's just you go and
follow them and start kind ofbeing part of their community,
being part of someone else'scommunity.

(20:20):
Like I, I just started doingthis old table football game
that I used to play a long timein the back of the past and I
started, I started that back inAugust and I started doing their
social media forum.
'cause I I started playing itand Shelly goes, I bet you end
up doing the social media inabout, in about six months time.
And I, and I am.
'cause I was, I was like, I waslike, and then basically I
started a channel and then Ididn't post anything, but I just
really did the bio really well.

(20:41):
Like, I'm doing this, we do thisand we are looking for people
that are in Milton Keynes thatplay the, that just, and we are,
we are being really specific.
So for like, from a DJ.
I make house music.
I live in so and so.
This is one of my latest DJmixes, or this is my latest
release.
And really just use that biospace to really tell people who
you are, what you do, where youare, and, and also if you're

(21:05):
looking for bookings, I'mbookable from here.
And then start just being partof that community.
And start gathering people intoyour community that are in the
same place, the same space, thesame part of the world.
And then once you've kind of getthat, got that, then you can
kind of work out, well, what dothey want to see?
So many people post on socialmedia with, I want to tell you,
I.

(21:26):
And it's not, I want to tellyou, it's, you want to see this
'cause everyone's on socialmedia just to be, just'cause
they're either bored or they'rejust watching stuff or they're
just swiping and they don't careabout, you know, the show that
you are gonna play unlessthey're in your community.
They care about how they'regonna be entertained, what's,
what's funny, what'sentertaining.
And a lot of the time like.
DJ content still kicks, likestill.

(21:48):
These are my top five tracks.
These are my top six records.
These are three hacks that I'vedone and it's gotta be around
DJing and producing.
'cause the new recommendationswith Instagram where they're
changed the algorithm lit, likeI've been watching my stats and
the last like so many, yourposts now are only gonna go to
40, 50% of your currentfollowers.
So that means the other 50%don't have a clue who you are.

(22:10):
So that means you need to makecontent thinking.
This person doesn't, potentially50 people, people that people
watch this don't have a clue whoI am.
So you need to think aboutwhat's gonna.
Kind of gather them into youraudience as well.
Like, what content's gonna workfor them?
So it's like DJ content, it'slike, you know, producer
content.
It's like studio content.
It's something that's gonna beinteresting to this world to

(22:33):
dance music and DJs.
And maybe it's like maybe you doa live stream or you.
Or you make a video and you cutit up, or maybe you like, like I
see some really great ones whereit's like, they'll play, they'll
do a long form YouTube videomix, and then they'll chop it
onto little bits.
That works really well.
or maybe they'll, you know,record a mix of SoundCloud and
then chop it into little bits topromote the mix on SoundCloud.
or just some of the, some of ourones they'll just like, these

(22:55):
are the top five tracks that II'm into this week and this is
the top five music I'm into thisweek.
And these artists are the topfive.
I'm into.
a couple of things happen whenyou do that sort of content, you
are tagging all the people.
So then again, it's like the howwe met.
Like, you're tagging people inthe comments, in the caption,
sorry.
And then they're gonna find you.
So they're gonna be kind ofgathered into your community.
You are giving to your audience,like you are just kind of giving

(23:15):
them the content they wannawatch.
and then the final bit is likeyou're trying to, if you wanna
grow, then it's like.
Then it's about amplifying thatcontent.
Can you get people to share it?
Can you use things like, I usethis thing called mancha, which
is absolutely killer.
Like,

Oh, you

like.

that?
I've seen that before.
ManyChat.

So good.
Like I like if you are givingaway a free download, for
instance, you just put commentfree, download and the Mancha
bot will reply to everybody andsay, here's the link.
And they'll put the link intoyour, into their dms.
And what really happens now, ifyou've got a Spotify link, If
you are saying, right, my new,this is a part of my new track,
like you're in the studio andyou do a production clip and you

(23:52):
go, this is me making my newtrack.
If you want to hear it, commentthe word disco ball, and then my
new track will be in your dms.
And what happens with Manny Chatand Instagram and Spotify.
Now the track's playable.
From the dms, like you don'thave to, you don't even have to
from Spotify, you don't have toleave DMS or Instagram.

(24:13):
You can play the track onSpotify in the dms, which means
they can listen to it in yourdms and you can message back and
go, that was cool.
Or you can then, but also youcan set with man chat and
automation.
That happens 24 hours later.
What did you think?
So they get another messagegoing, what do they think?
And then they'll go, oh yeah,I'm into it.
And then that starts the DMconversation, which we were
speaking about earlier, whichthen shows them more of your

(24:35):
content, which helps you grow.

Yeah.
So basically you can startautomating a lot of this, right?

Yeah.

and at least on a basic level, right?
Comment this word, and we've allseen that before.
Comment this

Yep.

want the, you know, the free download or the,
or the link, right?
And then you can schedule it tohave them follow up the next
day.
Hey, what'd you think of thesong?
Or, or maybe when they play itor something like that.
I love that.
And really.
You know what we're talkingabout.
This is, this is, you know, AItechnology.
You know, there's so many new AItools that are coming out that,
that we can use for ourbusinesses.
And so this is cool, man.
I, I, um, I saw this one a whileago and I, I never, I never

(25:08):
downloaded, I never tried itout, but it's really cool to see
how this could be applicable foran artist.
So many chat, MANY chat.

Yep.

out.
That sounds like a great tool touse.
Are there other AI tools thatare coming out that you're using
and recommending clients to use?
Is there anything else out therethat you find useful?

So I just, I use chat, GPT.
Like every day.
I wouldn't just go write me a,write me something, because it
just gives the base.
I literally treat my, chat GBTas a virtual assistant.
So I'll ask it.
What do you think about this?
What do your thoughts on this?
I, I'll, so I'll start like whenmy YouTube scripts, I'm like,
right.
Today we're gonna write aYouTube script.

(25:49):
I, this is the title, these area load of ideas I've had about
it.
Let's just brainstorm that.
Ask me some more questions sothat you can get some more
information.
From my brain about what'sgonna, what we're gonna, what
we're gonna include in thisscript before we even think
about the script.
Then I'll go line by line andgo, Nope, don't like that line,
let's change that.
No, I don't like that.
And really just go back andforth as a kind of, as, it's

(26:10):
like my ghost writer on myvirtual assistant.

Yeah,

Um.

I have a client who recently just had a huge
breakthrough around his brandwe've been talking about, just
getting to the bottom of Yeah.
His brand and what it's allabout.
And, I just kind of sent him offwith a, with a few ideas, and
then he just went in on chat GPTand came back next week and was
like, dude, like I just wentdown the rabbit hole.
And now he like, has.
This whole vision and all thisstuff and, and it really helped

(26:35):
unlock a lot of ideas.
So, especially for branding, Ithink that that is a great tool
and resource just to like, havesome conversations.
Like it will really ask you theright questions if you,

I think.
I think, I think don't just useit surface level.
Don't just like write me myInstagram strategy.
I'm a dj'cause it's just gonnaspit out generic.
It's just.

Yeah.
And it's so obvious too, likethat's the thing I don't like
about it.
Like I, I've tried that whereI'm like, oh, back to me being
fucking lazy.
And I'm like, oh, write mynewsletter for me.
And then I'm like, this is kindpretty garbage.
It sounds like you're a fuckingbot.
It doesn't sound like me at all.
I'll

Yep.

do it myself.
So.

Yeah, yeah.
Uh, I, I've tried out the,there's an, actually an AI in
meta in Instagram itself.
If you go into the search,there's a meta ai, and again,
that works a little, that's onthe LAMA four.
And you can use that the sameway as a chat GBT, but it
actually works within Instagram.
Again, you really have to, like,you can't just do surface level
with it.
I did a video on it and likethe, the results were really

(27:30):
surface level and I think you'vejust gotta treat it, like you've
really gotta go in and into itwith it.
but the Man Chat thing, I.
I absolutely can't sing enoughof that.
Like when you do free download,it can literally, like, you can
have the track, maybe you get aclip and they comment and then
the track is the free downloadis sent into their dms.
Like so many cool things,

cool about that too is you can start tracking
the metrics from it.
You know, similar to how youwere talking about SoundCloud is
like pull up the backend and seewhere are your fans

I.

you know?
That's kind of the next level ofI.
just being a business owner andstarting to understand metrics
and marketing.
And if you, you know, I comefrom, my original first job was
working at a major record label.
It's like major labels are likedeep in that, you know, like
they're

Yeah,

every single number.
What are the sales?
Where's our budget going?
Like, you know, who'sdownloading

sick.

from where?
Like they're.
Analyzing that.
And if we're not signed to alabel and we don't have a
management team, you know, likea good manager, a good team,
they're gonna be studying thatshit.
And it's important for you.
Who is the business owner at theend of the day?
That is like, start gettingfamiliar with that stuff.
Like pull up the backend andlook at like who's listening and
where are they from and okay, Iput out this song and you know,

(28:43):
not just looking at how manydownloads did it get?
But like, you know, let's, let'seven say you're maybe running
some ads, like, okay, you did aboost.
Like, well study.
Did that actually work?
How many new followers did youget?
Like, crunch the numbers aroundit.
And I think a lot of people arekind of scared of the numbers
and kind of scared to open upthe backend stuff.
Which I'm, I'm only barely, youknow, just starting to do that

(29:03):
where I'm like, oh, I can.
I can actually open up emailsand, you know, when I send an
email out, I can actually lookat like who opened it and like,
there's all this information on

Nice.

let's start, you know, studying that stuff.
So,

a hundred percent.

about.

Yeah, a hundred percent.
And then the, the other one,like, the other thing for
growing is like, like you'resaying with when you're running
ads, like that's such a big one.
If you and I do it, like if apost goes mental and I get, I
usually do it like seven daysafter the post has gone up.
So I leave it for seven days,get a load of organic and see
what the organic growth is.
If it's.
Doing much bigger than it's anoutlier and it's getting much

(29:37):
bigger than kind of the other,my other content.
Then I definitely will go into,business Facebook and run this.
Like, there's a campaign calledVideo Views and it basically
just pushes the views up so morepeople can see it and more
potentially people can see it.
And I really target it tocertain areas I don't use that.
I would suggest don't use thatboost button.
literally do it from an admanager, and get your head round

(29:59):
ad manager, which sounds superscary.
And it is.
It's like going into a cockpitof a plane

It's another, it's another language.
Yeah.
It's a

A hundred percent.
But what I can tell you aboutthat boost button is, you know,
do you know when you, you know,when you're a kid, you used to
go to the, the arcade and you goto the arcade and you play some
games, and then it spit outthose little tickets.
Do you have that in the states?
Like, and then you take thoselittle tickets and basically go
and get a toy from behind orsomething from behind the
counter, right?

(30:26):
Now once you're a parent, yougo, they spit their little
tickets out and you go, well, Ijust spent 40 pounds or$40, and
that toy is worth about seven.

yeah,

Right?

yeah.

It's the, the ROI is not adding up, right?
So I could have just taken that40 pounds and gone bought my
child a toy because theywould've got much more for their
money, right?
And that's how I see the Boostbutton and running promote ads.
The Boost button is gettingthose little tickets because the
ROI is not as good as if youtook the money and put it into

(31:00):
the promote fund,

And you hit on a really important point that I
think some.
Some people don't know yet,which is, which I, I remember
early on when I first wasworking at Icon Collective and
was helping with the marketingdepartment, and we'd be like,

Nice.

this post isn't doing that well, so let's, let's
boost it.
Let's push it.
We want people to see this post.
And it's not doing that well, solet's put some money into it so
more people see it, which is thecomplete backwards way of
thinking, right?
Which it's

Yep.

wanna see if there's a reason, there's a
reason it's not doing well, it'snot doing well.
'cause it's a bad post and it'snot performing.
The creative sucks, the copysucks, like people don't care
about it.
And

Yep,

you can only.
Polish it turd so much.
Just shoving it in front ofsomebody's face is, is not the,
the right move.
So exactly like you said, let mesee.
Like, oh wow, this posted reallywell.
People like it, people resonatedwith it.
That's a good sign.
We want more people to see thatone.
That's the one to throw somemoney into and, and

a hundred percent.

like you said, you gave it seven days.
Like, I wanna see how this thingperforms.
I wanna see how it takes off.
Sometimes we can shoot ourselvesin the foot, boosting too early.
Like it hasn't really run itscourse yet, so you gotta give it
that, that couple day window.
And then once the traffic diesoff, like, okay, cool.
Like, now we know people likeit.
Now go throw a hundred bucksinto it and, you know, push it

(32:21):
out to more people.
The other point I'll make aboutthat as well, um, is like, yes,
one.
ads can be a little bit scary.
I'm still in that stage of mybusiness where I don't do any
advertisement really.
Like I just went and did mytaxes and, and was like looking
at like ad spend.
It was like I just spent like$200 on ads like Boo

Oh my God.

doing like Facebook boosting, you know,
here and there.
And so I understand one, it'sintimidating.
I also understand too, if Ilearn this shit, I will five x
my business this year.

I agree with you, like I agree with you like
that, that is the wrong way.
Like if you are just making theads and if you're making, if
you're gonna run ads on track,on content that's not doing very
well, you are right.
That is completely the wrong,wrong method.
And, and so that's the wholekind of, the algorithm doesn't
like me, The content hasn't donevery well, and it's not like I
made this killer piece.
I think it's a killer piece ofcontent, but the algorithm hates

(33:10):
me.
No, no.
People just didn't like it.
Your content was shit.
And you are right.
People will run ads on the, onthe piece of content that's urd
and you can, like, you can rolla turd in glitter, but it, it's
just not like, it's just not,it's still not the same.
Is it like

Yeah.
Also, the other thing I reallylike to point out to people as
we're talking about spendingmoney on ads is, you know, every
time I is, is just to beconscious about where you're
spending your money on aday-to-day basis anyways.
Like if you're going.
You know, to the bar and on aFriday night and you're dropping
a hundred bucks.

(33:45):
That's a hundred bucks that youcould be putting into
advertising your next song ifyou knew how to advertise, if
you knew how to use it.
Right.
I just think about all the likedumb shit that I spend money on
and then like in my head I'mlike calculating.
I'm like, oh damn, that's like,there's like a thousand dollars
of like ads, like I could berunning to, you know, to
reinvesting in into my business.
And it's not just in ads,obviously, there's a lot of

(34:06):
things that we could be spendingmoney on.
There's new creative and, andartwork or, you know, new, new
equipment or whatever, which Idon't think y'all need.
Thousands of dollars ofequipment you can work with what
you have, but specifically, youknow, with advertising, you
could probably be pushing yourproject forward a lot more.
And just to be conscious of, allright, where could I be saving
some money every month and havea little bit of an ad budget?

(34:29):
Nobody in the music industrythat's like really operating at
a high level is.
Running purely on organic,right?
Everybody is spending some kindof money.
There's some, kind of pushbehind it.
And especially as you go higherup in the industry, I mean,
we're talking like tens ofthousands of dollars going into
advertising, every month andevery release to really get it

(34:49):
to like those highest levels.
So just something to beconscious of that I always like
to put out.

Agreed.
Do you wanna know?
Another platform that I reallylike for DJs?
there's a platform that I thinkso many DJs miss and it is
YouTube and like I can tell yousome, a story about YouTube.
Like so many people that justwant to be DJs and.
I've had this theory for a whileand it's, and it's been playing
out across a couple of YouTubechannels that I've been watching

(35:16):
for a while and.
If you are not into theproduction and you don't wanna
produce, but you just wanna be adj, then there is a such a home
for you.
Your one platform could beYouTube,

totally.

there, there's a channel called Flavor Trip.
Go and check'em out.
They're absolutely banging.
They started maybe 30 monthsago, I think this is their three
year on in Dec in the Novemberand.
They've done, they do two videosa month, one every one, every
two weeks.
And they're up to like 600,000subscribers just doing DJ mixes.
Some of their mixes have hadfour, 5 million streams.

(35:49):
They've built this MAD communityin Patreon All their community
posts on YouTube, get madcomments, mad engagement.
They've built a merch brand offthe back of it, and.
No production, they're justplaying really cool music.
they're filming on an on acouple of iPhones, a light,
maybe they started on acontroller.
they're kind of, they're touringaround Europe.

(36:10):
They were touring around Europein the vans.
They were living this nomad lifeand it's really sick.
so if you are trying to thinklike, right, what channel do I
pick and what channel do I wannabe?
But I don't, I'm not into theshort form content thing.
I don't wanna be, you know,doing this.
I don't wanna be doing that.
My God, just, just start makinga YouTube video and then, but
again, like learn the platformlike titles, thumbnails,
descriptions, all are absolutelymust be the absolute killer.

(36:32):
That's the thing you need tolearn, you know.

Yeah, if you can crack that code, man, it's, it's
wild how fast you can grow.
My, um, my friend and, andprevious business partner, Chris
White, he runs a branding agencycalled The Cult Creatives.
And it's funny, he actually isthe one that gave me the name.
Headliner mindset.
He's like a branding genius.
And so we were

Nice.

and, and it popped into his head.
He was like, headliner mindset,like, that's what you do.
And I was like, oh shit.
And so he kind of created thebrand, you know, for me.
But then he went and created hisown podcast, uh, relatively
recently and just.
Already has like 20, I dunno,15,000 followers on his, on his
YouTube channel.
'cause it's like one, he's gotreally good quality stuff,
really good cameras andeverything.

(37:13):
But he just sat there and he islike, all right, I'm gonna
figure out, I'm gonna figure outthis YouTube thing.
I'm gonna figure out, what arethe right, titles to use, what
are the right thumbnails?
And, you know, there's a sciencebehind it.
But yeah, he just sat, he satdown and figured it out and
really cracked the code on it.
So I,

Yeah.

agree.
And, and, and the other partabout that is like.
You know, DJing and the DJ lifeas far as getting on airplanes
every week, you know, a lot ofpeople think they want that, but
I think it's important to reallyget clear if that is something
that you want.
You know, a lot of people reallylove making music, and that's
awesome, and a lot of peoplethink that that's the only way
that they can really make moneyfrom it.

(37:46):
As I, as I, I have to do this DJthing, and so that is not always
the best lifestyle.
You have to have the right kindof mindset, the right kind of
like road warrior personality.
Like you gotta love that shit.
Otherwise it's like,

A hundred percent.

exhausting, physically, mentally,
emotionally.
So you know, if that's not foryou, like, I know for me, I
would, I would not want to be,gone all the time.
Like I'm a bit more of ahomebody.
I like to be in my, in my ownbed and go to the gym in the
morning and that kind of shit.
It's like, you gotta get.
Real about what kind oflifestyle you wanna live.
Also, I've seen, you know, duoswhere it's like maybe there's
one guy that tours and thenyou're more of the producer for

(38:20):
that project and you're notreally the face of it, but
you're making music for it.
And there's a lot of thosesituations out there as well.
So it's just good to get reallyclear on like.
If that really is the path thatyou want to go down.
Great episode to shout out wasone with Laid Back Luke, where,
he really talked about just thereality of what it's like to be
on the road and, and you know,how, how tough that can be.
So definitely go check thatepisode out.

(38:41):
Uh, total legend of a dj.
but

Yeah, I agree.
There's, that's the thing, like,that's so mental, like you have
to be so like, this is what Iwant to do, like.
There are, so like you'resaying, some people just wanna
be producers and there aremonies to make money.
It's like you can, you know, youcould produce and you could put
stuff on Bandcamp and youroutput could be SoundCloud and
maybe you put it on thestreaming platform for the
discoverability, but your kindof real focus is those that

(39:06):
space or maybe your productionis.
I get really good at producing.
I release some labels, but thenI'm just gonna teach, or I'm
gonna do something else.
I'm gonna have a, a Discordwhere I do feedbacks, and it's
about finding that little spacethat's yours.
And maybe you are a dj, like Isaid, YouTube and understanding
that side, or just find yourplatform and your space that's
gonna work for you and, and thenyou can go, you know, go

(39:27):
forward.

I had a client who was making 20 grand a month off
YouTube.

Amazing.

that was, and you know, he had an artist brand and
he would tour like a little bit,but he was like, dude, he's
like, I don't, I don't have to.
I'm making 20 grand a month offYouTube, because he just cracked
the code.
It was like SoundCloud andYouTube, but just streaming.
A lot of people think there's nomoney from streaming.
Whatever he was doing wasworking and he was getting like
millions of plays on, on bothplatforms.
And he is like, this is morethan enough to, to live on and

(39:54):
he is doing okay with it.
So there, there is money thereto be made.
If you're making, really goodshit and you, you figure out the
platforms.

there's so much money to be made in streaming.
There's so much money to be madein, in Spotify and, and
SoundCloud and YouTube, and.
The only people that say thatthere's no money to be made in
it are the people that dunno howto do it, and they're in the
wrong, like they're talkingabout mindset.
They're in the wrong mindset.
They're just, instead of moaningthat they dunno, they're not
making any money, then

Yeah,

go and work out how to do it.
There is money to be made.
If you look at some of thebiggest late record labels, they
locally say, you know, 40% oftheir revenue is from music and
streaming and royalties.
So

totally.

a hundred percent is money's been made in
it.

so before we got on the call, we were
celebrating.
This new book that you put out,congratulations.
First of all, like

one here.

you have it right here, physically holding the
actual book.
It's so

Thank you.

to see that for you.
Like I've always, in the back ofmy mind, I've had that idea of
like writing a book someday.
It seems like such a dauntingtask to sit there and get all
the ideas out of your head andactually.
Put them in a way that makessense and finding the right
word.
So first off, just kudos to youfor sitting down, doing the

Thank you.

you know, making it come to life.
Uh, I would love to hear aboutthe book.
Tell us about what this book is.

So basically the book's called Gather, give and
Grow.
Uh, it's a basically the socialmedia blueprint for, for
Instagram, for DJs andproducers.
And I started this process lastsummer.
like you say, I've wanted towrite a book for a long time,
and I've seen, I've bought somany books from creators on
YouTube and that.
Have turned things into books,and I've kind of, I've always, I

(41:30):
always think like a book, likean album.
Like you don't just kind of dropan album.
You have loads of singles andyou build an audience and that,
and you build a community.
And then when you drop the book,people actually want a book from
you.
And not just, not just, they'renot just, it's just not gonna go
out there and not do anything,you know?
So I started it last summer.
I, I was sitting there thinking,I've got all these YouTube
scripts, like for every, forevery video I write.

(41:53):
A really long, probably 20 pagescript.

Wow.

go, I spend, I spend probably two days
researching and research andlooking for data and looking at
like case studies that work andspend.
So, and I'm spending more andmore time now on, on scripts for
YouTube.
And I was like, well, I've gotall these scripts.
What if I just upload them allto chat GBT and see what it can
do with them?

Yeah.

then it's got all of my conscious thought
from, from all of my scripts,and maybe it can then maybe it
could then turn it into a book.
So I did that and it kind ofwent.
I dunno what to do with allthis.
And it started, it started doingit and it took a while.
And then I

Overload.

fucking Mel, I nearly melted it, uh, because if
you think it's like, probably,probably four or 500 scripts.
And it took me ages to uploadthem all.
'cause you can only upload'em inlike 10.
So I literally sat there fordays.
And then I started thinking,right, well that was a, that
took a bit of time and that, sothen I started just doing the
Instagram ones.
'cause I, and then I was like,well if I just do Instagram,

(42:51):
that's a lot less scripts.
I'll just copy all that in andlet's see what it spits out.
And then I basically started, itstarted spitting me out a kind
of like.
Structure.
Do you happy with thisstructure?
And I was like, Hmm, that'squite cool.
And then, do you know LA a bitlater in the year, I saw this
Instagram post and it was likethe three E's of growing on
Instagram.
And I was like, well that'squite cool.

(43:12):
but my name begins with a G andI wonder, I wonder if there's
three Gs.
And so that's where we get, thenwe get our gather, give and grow
basically.
And then.
So then I started working outlike, what are these three Gs
and if they can be, you know, ifthey, if it's even possible.
And then that sort of worked outand then that kind of thing
molded into this, like the threesections of the book.

(43:34):
And then we could kind of likework out what each section's
gonna be and start then turninginto.
This finished product and then,and then you start getting the,
then you start, they can, I didit with Amazon Print on demand.
It was super easy, so you shoulddefinitely do it, dude.
You can basically get thetranscriptions now for all these
YouTube videos.
So I got, there's a, there's anAI that basically pulls all the
transcriptions and put, and youput that at that transcription

(43:55):
into chat gt and it gives youlike all the, all of the chat
and who said what, and basicallygives you more stuff you can put
into a book.

Okay.
Here's, here's what I'll say isif at least five of you send me
a DM or comment that you want meto write the Headliner Mindset
book, I'm gonna fucking do it.
All right?
But y'all, I,

You should all comment.
Definitely go and comment.
Yeah,

Let me know.
Let me know if we should do itor if I get to continue being
lazy and not do it.

I might go and get all my team, there's at
least five of them.
They can go and comment.

So, so what, what does this book cover, walk us
through what, what this is, uh,what are some of the big points
that you're making here in thebook?

start.

give, and grow mean?
Let's

So, yes, like as we spoke about with the
Instagram, you may have noticedI weaved in there in the
Instagram section.
So we're kind of gathering anaudience that like we've, the,
the into what you're doing.
Like it's about finding thatlittle tribe that starts off
with, and then you're kind ofgive them the, the content they
wanna watch.
And then we're gonna talk aboutgrowing and we're gonna talk
about ads, and we're gonna talkabout influencers and trying to
really push that, that contentthat's really working to the, to

(44:57):
the, to the wider sphere, youknow?

Got it.

Yeah, it's really fun.
Like you do it with Amazon, youupload it, they, you upload the
cover and then you start.
I've got some, like, so we'vegot the, we've got early proof.
They start some new early proof,so you can see like there's a,
there's a kind, there's a kindof difference between on the
YouTube videos, so

Oh,

it evolved over time.

you, man.
I'm, I'm gonna have to

Thank you.

I think that's so cool.
You know, it's

Thank you.

in this digital content era.
We, we kind of lose, you know,we've lost the art of books.
I think, you know, like, I, I,that's.
For me, I've always grew up justlike you can see behind me.
I'm like, I'm, I'm a, I'm abookworm, so,

Yeah.

I I

Love it.

we get to put some of this stuff into physical,
tangible, readable books now.
That's really cool.

then the fun bit started, I finished writing it.
I writing the fun bit and I'vewritten the book and then it's
like, right, let's start workingthe social media strategy out
and let's start making thecontent and let's start planning
the I.
The only thing you couldn't dowith Amazon was like, you
couldn't get a pre-order link.
So I had to build this likebroadcast channel in man chat
that basically everyone signedup to pre and then I could
basically blast them on onrelease day, which worked so

(46:03):
well.

Cool.

because essentially once we blast them,
had loads of purchase on dayone, and we went to, we got an
Amazon, we had two, Amazoncategory, bestsellers, number
ones, uh, for two of the, two ofthe book ca two book categories
on Amazon, which is absolutelybuzzing.
Yeah, really cool.

Congratulations.
Well, everybody go to Amazon.
Order a copy of the book.
Make sure you are following Gramon

Thank you.

uh, and your YouTube channel as well.
That's is, it's under your, yourpersonal

Yeah, Graham?
Yeah.

Farmer.
Cool.
I'll make sure to include thelinks for all of those in the
show

Thank you.

And um, and I know you're also running.
The Artist Blueprint.
It's called The ArtistBlueprint, right?
The Artist

Yes, yes.

go, go follow him.
Check out all of the, all thecourses, all of the books.
If you're trying to grow yourbrand and your career as an
artist, this is obviouslysomebody that you wanna be
following.
So Graham, thank you so much fortaking the time to come through
and uh, yeah, I'm excited tocollaborate with you more, man.
I have a feeling that there'ssome

Let's do it.

we get to build together.
So, uh,

do it.

the seed planted today.

Let's do this.
I'm so, thank you so much againfor having me.
This has been so fun.
Like, um, yeah, everyone willgo, everyone going comment liner
for sure.
And make, make him write a book.
Let's make this happen.

It is

I wanna read that book.

Yeah.
Thank you for the inspiration.

Wicked.
Thank you for having me.
I.

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GRAHAME FARMER - How DJs Can Grow a Real Fanbase in 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}GRAHAME FARMER - How DJs Can Grow a Real Fanbase in 2025