May 12, 2025 • 48 mins
From dropping out of grad school to crushing festival stages — Nikita the Wicked is proving that the real win comes when you stop following the rules and start following your calling.
In this episode, we get into the story behind his rise, how he built a viral artist brand without a label and why bringing your full personality into your project is what separates artists from entertainers.
We talk about:
- What it really takes to walk away from the “safe” path
- The moment he knew grad school wasn’t for him
- How he built a team around his project
- Building a character, a brand, and a movement in bass music
- The importance of staying inspired and avoiding burnout as a creator
If you're an artist trying to find your sound, your lane, or your voice — this conversation will remind you that you don’t need permission to go all in.
Follow Nikita The Wicked here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikitathewicked
https://www.tiktok.com/@nikitathewicked
Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink
And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
there's gonna be a time where.
(00:01):
Your parents aren't gonna getit.
Your friends aren't gonna listento it.
No one's really gonna care, butas long as you care, that's all
that matters.
Nik Cherwink (00:23):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner Mindsetpodcast.
This week's guest is one of thehottest rising acts in the bass
music scene.
In this episode, we talk abouthis creative process behind his
hit records, the inspirationbehind his brand and his
courageous decision to drop outof grad school and go all in on
his artist project.
This is Nikita the wicked.
Nikita, welcome to the show.
(00:44):
I'm so stoked that you're hereand, and when I mean here,
literally here you are.
Literally here.
I'm here with me for everybodylistening on Spotify.
We're here in Austin, alive andin the Flesh.
Yes.
I love it.
Yeah, super hyped to be here.
My first time in Austin as well.
First time in Austin and kind offirst podcast too.
Yeah, a small one a few yearsago.
Yeah, just a small one with areally good friend of mine, but
(01:06):
yeah, it was like the first likeofficial one, so yeah.
Yeah, dude.
Hell yeah.
Excited.
I feel very honored.
Thanks so much for being downto, to hop on.
Yeah.
Hell yeah, man.
Um, I would love to start off byjust hearing a bit about your
story.
Like when did you startproducing music?
What got you into it?
Sure.
Yeah, man, I, uh, I startedproducing music in high school
actually around 20 16, 20 17.
(01:27):
I was making hip hop beats thatwere just terrible.
Um, that, that was like very,what I first started with hip
hop was always my first love.
And then I went to college atthe University of South Carolina
and got really into.
DJing.
Yeah.
And kind of in my earlier yearsof college, I put producing
aside, I was just DJing at allthe parties around there.
And then towards the end I kindof saw that like DJing can only
(01:47):
get you so far.
Yeah.
Without actual production.
So that senior year, July, 2020is when I started to key the
wicked going into my senior ofcollege, and I just like really
went into it.
I was just like taking notes tostart my day, going to class,
coming back.
Producing music for like fourhours and then like playing
shows at night.
So that was kinda like my dailyroutine.
(02:07):
Damn.
And so at that point, did youhave.
The vision and, and the goal ofbeing like, I, I really want to
do this.
I want to actually become like aprofessional artist and dj, or
was it still kind of a, a hobbythat you were having fun with?
I think it was definitely at thetime, it was something I really
took seriously, especially atlike South Carolina where dance
music wasn't very prevalent.
It felt like people maybe didndidn't understand it as much,
(02:28):
but I definitely knew that thisis like all I wanted to kind of
learn about and just like evolveYeah.
With it.
So, yeah.
And, and then.
You went to grad school afterthat?
I did.
Well, so I was really curious todig into this because I am, you
know, this is the headlinermindset.
Sure.
I am all about, you know, mentalhealth and wellness.
Yep.
And, and the just yeah.
The, the, the mindset side of,you know, just success and even
(02:51):
just being human navigating,like the, that, that, that
stuff.
And so you went to grad schoolfor psychology?
Clinical psychology.
Clinical psychology.
So what was your vision withthat?
And I guess your inspiration to,to, to.
Go in that direction.
Yeah.
So I went to, uh, Palo AltoUniversity.
It's a really small school, um,right by Stanford, and I was
just there for, it was a twoyear program to go into therapy.
(03:14):
Mm-hmm.
Um, because I, my undergrad was,uh, experimental psychology, so
I knew like the next route foracademic wise was to get into
grad school.
And I just knew that wherever Iwanted to, like, wherever, like
psychology took me, I, I justknew I had to be in California.
So like I just knew thatCalifornia was where I had to
be.
I think internally I knew like.
I wanted to do music and I needto be in California, and school
(03:35):
was just a way to get me there.
It made my parents happy that Iwas like, oh my God, you under
grad school?
And so I was like, that kind ofbrought me there.
But yeah, I see.
That's how it went.
I see.
Okay.
So there was almost like anunconscious pole, like I think
so I'm supposed to be here inthe entertainment capital of the
world.
I think so, yeah.
Right.
Okay.
And so.
Was there, there was also a partof you though, that like, wanted
(03:56):
to become a therapist.
You know, I, I think there was apart of me internally that saw a
career path within psychology.
I felt like even in undergrad,I, I, I found the coursework
very, I liked learning about it,um, to like, I really liked the,
like learning about it in theclasses, but it really came down
to once I did my firstinternship.
Um, at the, in grad school whereI really was not.
(04:19):
Yeah, I, I, I figured it likecame to me that this was not the
path for me.
Yeah.
And that was also the time whereI was also still working super
hard at music at the same time.
So it was kind of a split downtwo roads basically.
Yeah.
So you were just starting totell me, uh, of.
Cool.
Part of your story with like themoment that you decided that you
were not gonna continue mm-hmm.
(04:40):
With with grad school?
Yeah.
Share that because I wanna sharemy story as well.
Sure.
Because it's actually prettysimilar.
Yeah.
So, I, I didn't finish gradschool.
Um, I came into grad school.
Like I, I completed all mycoursework and when I did my
first internship where I justsaid I, I really did enjoy it, I
was.
I was working at a middle schoolin the, uh, Tenderloin District
of San Francisco.
If you dunno what that is, it'slike one of the most like
(05:01):
dangerous, like kind of badparts of San Francisco.
So I saw a lot of like reallymessed up things and then just
kind of going into this middleschool, being a counselor and I
just, I.
I felt like I was doing a badjob.
I felt like my like supervisorthought I was doing a bad job.
And what really made me notappreciate it or just made me
feel bad was that I knew thatthese kids needed a counselor
(05:24):
who really had a hundred percentof their heart in the crap in
the profession.
Yeah.
And I knew I wasn't in it.
Yeah.
So it just gave me a lot ofanxiety, like a lot of stress
and.
Fast forward to my secondinternship.
Um, I basically walk into adifferent internship and on the
very first day of orientation,they gave me like 50 to 70 files
of just paperwork, paperwork tolook at and fill out.
(05:47):
And it was just in that moment Istood up and I walked out and I
was like, I'm not, I'm not doingthis.
Yeah, dude.
I was kind of the start and, andit's like you can feel it in
your body if you know thatthere's a misalignment.
Right.
Like there is a calling, thereis a purpose, there is a passion
and a gift inside of me thatwants to come out for you.
That's being an artist andmaking music when you're doing
shit that's not in alignmentwith that.
(06:08):
Like, you're gonna feel it,right?
And in that moment you, you,that was like the straw that
broke the camel's back.
It really was.
It, it really takes a lot of, Ifeel like.
Courage, I felt like to just belike, I cannot go down this
Totally, dude.
It takes fucking courage, man.
And, and I, it's like I reallywant to hammer this point home
because I think that there's alot of people, not just artists,
but a lot of people that areshowing up and doing something
(06:30):
every day and they're like, Iknow this is not.
What I was born to do.
Yeah.
It is like, this is not it, butit's scary.
Yeah.
It's scary to take that leap.
Faith, very scary.
It requires a lot of courage.
Mm-hmm.
It requires, I mean, it reallyis a leap of faith.
You have to have faith.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta trust that.
Like if you follow your bliss,as Joseph Campbell says, follow
your bliss and the universe willopen doors where there were only
walls.
(06:50):
Wow.
Right.
Trust that if I jump, I'll beokay.
Mm-hmm.
Because you know it likelistening to that, that kind of
inner conflict, it's like.
It's just, it's speaking soloudly.
It's speaking so clearly.
Not in words, but in feeling.
Yeah.
Right.
And you gotta follow thatfeeling.
Mm-hmm.
So for me, I wanna sharesimilarly, I am right outta
(07:10):
college.
I graduated on Saturday, movedin with a girlfriend on Sunday,
started a job at a financialadvising firm on Monday.
Wow.
About two months into thisfinancial advising job, I
remember having a call with afriend and she told me how she
had, uh, signed up to do LSATclasses to study, to go to law
(07:31):
school.
Yeah.
And she was like, I went to thefirst day of classes.
I sat down in the chair and likehalfway through the class I
realized.
What the fuck am I doing here?
Like, this is not for me.
Like I just know in my soul,this is not it.
Yeah.
And she got up in the middle ofthe class and just left.
Mm-hmm.
In the middle of it.
Mm-hmm.
And it hit me like a lightningbolt.
I was on my way to meet withlike a potential client for this
(07:52):
financial advising job, and itjust hit me so hard.
I was like.
This is not it.
Yeah.
Like this ain't it.
Yeah.
And so I went on the spot.
I told the client like, Hey,thanks for meeting with me, but
like I'm about to go quit myjob.
I just drove into the office,quit the job on the spot.
Wow.
Came home, told the, told, toldmy girlfriend.
I was like, Hey, like this isnot, this is not for me.
Mm-hmm.
Like I gotta go chase something.
Wow.
I don't even know what it is,but like, this is not it.
(08:14):
Mm-hmm.
And so a, a ton of fuckingcourage.
It took a ton of courage.
I ended up moving to LA with athousand dollars and knew one
person.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, a year later hadmy own office in capital
records.
Wow.
But it's like.
It requires that fucking leap offaith.
Yeah.
And like listening to thatvoice.
So I just love that part of yourstory.
Yeah.
That, that you went for it.
Yeah.
It, it's, it's especially hard,especially in those earlier days
(08:35):
of like music production where.
Especially like my first sixmonths when I moved to San
Francisco and I didn't, I didn'tknow anyone.
I was like 2000 miles away fromall my family and friends.
'cause I'm from Kentucky andwent to school in South
Carolina.
So I was, I was pretty sad.
I didn't know anyone.
I was in this program that Ididn't know if it was for me,
but I was spending all my timemaking music and doing music
(08:55):
production and like one thing Itold myself was like, or
something I say, I used to teachlessons as well.
One thing I would say is like,there's gonna be a time where.
Your parents aren't gonna getit.
Your friends aren't gonna listento it.
No one's really gonna care, butas long as you care, that's all
that matters.
What keeps you going in thosemoments?
Just that.
Just that belief, that justbelieve in yourself when no one
(09:17):
else will.
You just gotta know that youhave it.
And even like a year or two intothe Quila Wicked Project, I knew
that in my production that Ihad.
That there was something hereand there were just a couple of
other artists that were a bitbigger than me, who when they
would, you know, follow me likeme and be like, yo, you're
really good.
I was like, okay.
That the fact that they thinkthis.
Yeah.
And I have like 500 monthlylisteners at the time means like
(09:38):
there could, there could besomething here.
Yeah.
So you just gotta keep going.
Yeah.
Keep your head down, keep going.
What would you say has been yourdriving force behind.
Pursuing this path and thisproject.
It was just something I've, I'vealways, um, wanted to do since I
came to college and startedDJing.
It was just like, I feel likethat feeling of playing live in
(09:58):
front of people was somethingthat just.
It's like a feeling like, likeno other can compare it to such
bliss and such happiness where,and especially at a point now
where now you get to play yourown music and people are singing
the lyrics to your songs.
It's such a beautiful moment.
It's like, how, how could it getbetter than this?
So that's just like, it's just,I just really love playing live
and just having my music justlike, you know, means something
(10:21):
to people.
So I think that's what drivesme.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now I'm curious to hear aboutyour creative process.
Sure.
Because I'll be honest, I'm not.
I'm notoriously not the biggestlike base head in the world.
Sure.
I'm more on the house side.
Cool.
I'm actually a big metal head.
That's my, that's kind of mymain thing, right.
Uh, I'm more like progressivehouse sort of scene.
(10:42):
I'm, I'm definitely, uh.
Loving a lot more bass musicthese days.
Mm-hmm.
Um, my girlfriend is a huge basshead.
Cool.
And so she's throwing onplaylists and shit, and it was,
you know, just relativelyrecently that she was playing a,
a, a, a playlist and like, um,your song, what's the what the,
the big song that you havethat's like me.
(11:06):
Like me, yeah.
Right.
That song came on.
I was like.
You know, I did a double take.
I'm like, what, what is this?
I was like, I like, what thefuck is this?
Who is this artist?
Like, this is fucking cool.
Mm-hmm.
And then I was like, okay, cool.
Nikita the Wicked Dope.
And then, uh, you know, she wasplaying some other songs or
whatever, and then another songcomes on.
I was like, I was like, is thisthat same guy?
I was like, there's like, andshe's like, yeah, this is the
(11:27):
same one.
And there's a, there's a soundand a vibe and a flavor that's
just different.
And like you have your own.
Energy and spice, you know?
Yeah.
That it's like, even as like a,like I, I'm just a, you know,
again, yeah.
A non base head, but just amusic person mm-hmm.
That I feel like you havesomething really unique and
(11:48):
different mm-hmm.
That you're bringing to thescene and that, that, that,
that, that you're bringing.
So, appreciate it.
I wanna like, dig into yourcreative process.
Sure.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I guess I'm justcurious about what does that
look like for you when you, whenyou sit down, how do you, how do
you produce?
Where do you draw inspiration?
I, I know a lot of artists are.
Maybe struggling to find theirsound or dealing with creative
blocks or, or a big thing islike chasing other sort of
(12:10):
sounds.
Doesn't sound like you're doingthat at all.
So what does your process looklike?
I mean, certain, certainly inthe earlier stages it was a
bunch of chasing differentsounds and trying and pretty,
like if you listen to mydiscography, like I started with
like future base and then I madetrap and then I went back to
future bass and then I made abig house song and then now I'm
a bass artist.
So like I've kind of beenaround, yeah.
(12:32):
Uh, like different genres.
And like I always say toartists, like, when you try to
like, produce different genres,it will make your own sound that
much better because it showsthat you can, you're a very
versatile artist and you cantake a piece of this style and a
piece of that style and put ittogether, and that's kind of
what replicates your sound.
Um, I think that's reallyimportant.
And for me, like I'm a, I'm abig, um.
(12:52):
Sample guy in terms of likereally digging in the crates and
finding something unique.
And that's, that really comesfrom my love of hip hop.
Yeah.
Um, like the producer of TheAlchemist is one of my, um,
biggest like inspirations andjust the way he samples and
chops up these, like some likeJapanese record from like 1972.
Some like soul stuff.
Like I really like doing that.
And it's cool because in hip hopthey do it so well.
(13:14):
But in dance music, it seemslike it's not done.
Yeah.
As enough.
Yeah.
So I always like, if I'm gonnastart something from scratch,
I'm gonna like look for somereally weird sample and start
there.
That's kind of how I like tostart.
Cool.
Yeah.
Well I love the permission toexplore.
Yeah, right.
Like play with other genres.
Mm-hmm.
Try different things.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople are kind of trying to
lock in on their lane and, andthat is a.
(13:36):
A question I get a lot of like,oh, should I focus on one sound?
You know, because like a lot ofpeople say you should have
consistency.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas a lot of people, I thinktheir heart and soul kind of
wants to make different shit.
Yeah.
And it seems like a lot ofartists almost don't give
themselves permission to dothat.
Mm-hmm.
Play around, make a house song.
Yeah.
You know, get, get a little.
Well,'cause most of the time youdon't even know what your sound
(13:58):
is.
Yeah.
And you won't for like a longtime.
Like it, sometimes the audienceknows your sound better than
you.
Mm-hmm.
Like when my fans will hear likethe first like five seconds of
my song, like, oh, that's aNikila Wickett song.
It's just like, how do they.
Know that bef like, that's crazythat they just know the certain
production.
Mm-hmm.
Um, like I, I guess likedecisions you make, that's what
(14:19):
your sound is.
And it's really easy for like abig artist to be like, well,
just find your sound and you'll,and you'll break out.
It's just like, okay.
It's, that's easier said thandone.
Yeah.
Like, you won't really know yoursound.
This sound will kind of come toyou by the decisions you make
mm-hmm.
While you're making a song.
Yeah.
That's what I think.
You feel like you've found thatfor yourself now?
I, I think so.
I, I guess like.
I, I like to think I've found mysound and certainly like my
(14:41):
friends and my audience seems toreally appreciate my sound.
I think with this next project,um, that I am about, I'm about
to release here soon.
My next EP it will definitelyfully show the sound that I'm
on, basically the songs I'vebeen leading up to this sound,
um, that is Nik Le Wicken.
I, so I'm really excited forthat project.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious to get your thoughtson this,'cause I see this happen
(15:03):
where you find your sound.
Mm-hmm.
And.
You start becoming successful.
Mm-hmm.
People start liking you forthat, and now that's what you're
getting booked for.
Mm-hmm.
That's what you're getting paidfor.
Mm-hmm.
You know, now you're paying thebills with this business that
you've created right.
Around your sound.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes artists can getkind of, uh, pigeonholed or feel
(15:25):
the pressure Yeah.
To be like, well, I gotta keepdoing this thing.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's working.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
And I see some artists that do,and then there's other artists
that really allow themselves tocontinuously reinvent themselves
and continue to explore.
Mm-hmm.
How do you feel about that?
What are your thoughts on that?
I completely agree.
I mean, I'm, I'm well aware.
(15:45):
I'm, I'm the bass guy.
I'm like, I'm kind of like thenew kid on the block in bass
music.
I'm pretty aware of that, um,title right now.
And like, that's cool.
Like, I'm, right now I lovemaking bass music and
especially, and more of like mystyle of bass music.
Yeah.
'cause it's like, I wouldn'treally like call my stuff like
dubstep or I wouldn't reallycall it like rhythm or like,
even like garage.
(16:06):
It's kind of just like.
Bits and pieces of all of it.
Yeah.
Um, I think that's more uniqueand just the, like, the fact
that I started in differentgenres and now I'm in bass.
Like my biggest song before mylast ep, the auction was like a
deep house record.
It was like an art house record.
And it's just like, it like.
Maybe one day I wanna return tothat phase, um, when I've like
accomplished everything I wantto accomplish in bass music.
(16:28):
But right now, like, I totallyunderstand like, this is what's
paying the bills.
Like you could get burnt outmaking this style all the time.
But I would say like, you know,don't put yourself in a box.
And I love it when artists likeevolve with sound.
Yeah, totally.
Um, like it just shows growth,like evolution of an artist I
think is really important.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Well, well, one, I love thatit's like.
You're making bass music thateven non bass heads like Yeah.
(16:51):
Which is cool.
Yeah.
Me being one of them.
Uh, but also just, I guess Iwould, I really, I, I just
really want to see everyonecontinue to evolve.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Um, to continue.
I think that that is the, therole of an artist is to continue
to explore.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And.
Your inspiration takes you in anew direction.
(17:13):
You gotta have, back to courage,you gotta have the courage.
Take that leap of faith.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, okay, maybe this is what'sfamiliar and it gets familiar
and you know, you build theaudience and the following.
Yeah.
If you have that spark and thatcalling, like, oh, go make the
fucking deep house song.
Like, have the courage to dothat.
A lot of artists don't,especially like if you're fans
like really, truly love you,they will ride with you.
Yeah.
You know, regardless, they'llalways appreciate your sound
(17:34):
because like, it doesn't make,it doesn't matter if I make.
A, a house or like a, a futurebass song, like it's still gonna
be a Nik the Wicked record atthe end of the day.
Like those decisions that I makewill still be apparent in all,
all my songs at the end of theday.
Yeah, totally.
And so it's obviously about morethan just the music these days
as well.
There's like the audience and,and the social media.
(17:54):
Yep.
Um, tell me about, I guess, the.
brand of Nikita, the Wicked.
Sure.
And your relationship withsocial media, that's a, that's a
sticking point for a lot ofpeople.
Yeah.
They really love making musicall day, but they don't really
want to put themselves outthere.
What have you been finding, uh,I guess, kind of just works for
you and being like authenticwith your brand and your
(18:16):
marketing and your social media?
Yeah, sure.
Um, it all really kind of camedown to last summer when I
released my, my EP independentlycalled, um.
I love it when they run.
And that was kind of the idea ofthat was I was like, okay, I
know what I'm, I'm gonna wearthis red suit and I'm gonna play
this like villain character ofthis project.
And then I started this catchphrase that was like, dance
(18:37):
music needed a villain.
Yeah.
So at the end of every video itended with dance music needed a
villain and it was, it was likedance music has a lot of heroes
now.
It needs a villain.
Yeah.
And like people really.
Appreciated that they like, theyunderstood it.
Um, and especially like the RedSue, like I got to play a
character with that project.
Um, and I, I think the idea ofplaying characters is really
cool and really not done a lotin dance music as well.
(19:00):
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, just, I feel likea lot of people are trying to
chase that hit single where Ireally like that, you know,
building a whole projecttogether.
So like that last ep, thisupcoming one, so I'm planning my
next character for this nextproject too.
But in terms of like the contentside, like, yeah, I was just
kind of like, really.
Ingraining this character withit.
And like people like always, uh,like comment on like the way I
(19:20):
move, like in my videos.
Yeah.
And when you see me live andlike, that's pretty apparent.
Like that's just kind of how Idigest music.
And also like I.
Grew up, I did eight years ofballroom dancing, so like I am
Oh, cool.
I Dan, like my whole childhoodwas dancing, so like now that I
produce, like that's how musiccomes to me.
Like that's just how it is.
So, love that man.
Yeah, I love that.
I think that's a great point.
(19:40):
It was like, bring all ofyourself into.
Your brand, right?
Yeah.
Like, cool, you've got abackground in ballroom dancing.
Bring that in.
Mm-hmm.
You know, you're a exskateboarder.
Bring that in.
Yeah.
You know, show people who youare.
And, and I think that's, uh,yeah, that's, it's, it's all
about expression.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That was something that jumpedout at me as well once I started
(20:01):
like, following you and, andoutside of just listening to the
music, but then seeing Yeah,just you and like.
Just the vibe and the swag, evenlike the fashion, you know, I,
I, I was like, oh, this guy'sgot, like, he's got a look.
The grandpa style.
Yeah, yeah, dude.
Which is so cool.
It's one of my favorite thingsactually is contrast.
Mm-hmm.
When you think of like bassmusic, there's kind of like a,
an aesthetic mm-hmm.
That goes with that.
(20:22):
Mm-hmm.
That is also very overly done.
You know, like everyone kind offalls into that same sort of
aesthetic.
Mm-hmm.
And then when.
When you pop out, you're like,yeah, I sound like this, but I
look like this.
Mm-hmm.
And it's almost like a patterninterrupt in your brain.
Mm-hmm.
Which I love.
I love when people do that.
Yeah.
So you nailed that.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
It's something that a lot ofpeople aren't thinking about
really?
Yeah.
Like, how am I, how am Ipresenting myself mm-hmm.
(20:44):
Visually as an artist.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and styleclothing.
Like that's a part of it that Ithink a hundred percent is
becoming more and more.
Part of the game.
It's like, I, I bring this upall the time, but, you know, EDM
as a blanket, umbrella term forelectronic music is kind of the,
the new kid on the block of themajor, like food groups, you
(21:04):
know, there's rock pop, hip hop,like, but like a rapper's gonna
dress like a fucking rapper.
They're gonna, they're gonnahave, they, they know style is
important.
Mm-hmm.
A pop artist is gonna come outand like, look the part.
And I think finally, you know,DJs are starting to like, catch
onto that as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Like.
Be an artist.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
It's, I think individuality,like the fashion true, like I,
(21:26):
it's, it's not even fashion.
Like I, Tyler the creator islike a, a huge inspiration of
mine.
Like the whole characterbuilding arc was him, and just
like his, his fashion style issomething I really.
Like, just like just thecollared shirts and the slacks.
I think it's, it's a reallyunique vibe, especially in dance
music.
'cause like all DJs wear ourblack tees.
That's it.
Yeah.
It's so boring.
I can't have it anymore with theblack tees.
(21:47):
It's so boring.
I mean, I get it because likeyou DJ you sweat and like with
the Black Tee, no one's gonnasee it, but it's like, I can't,
I'm not, yeah.
I'm not trying to wear that.
I'm just not.
I saw, I saw Lane eight lastnight.
Yeah.
Really?
Which, first off, it was a, nophones allowed.
Show.
Yeah.
Never done that before.
It was so sick.
Mm-hmm.
I'm just, I'm putting this outthere.
Y'all start doing that if youcan.
(22:08):
No phones.
Like, that was fucking epic.
Yeah.
No phones allowed.
No cameras purely being present.
It was, it was so cool.
Um, but yeah, he came out, hehad like a, a tie on and like
socks, like pulled over his,over his, over his pants and
shit.
It was like, I was like, thisguy's doing his own thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It was very cool.
you're here in Austin.
(22:29):
You're playing with Zeds Deadtonight.
Awesome.
So excited to come out and, and,and see you get down.
When did things start to clickfor you on the Yeah, the, just
the, the business side.
You have a manager now.
You have an agent now.
Mm-hmm.
When did all of that startcoming together for you?
Um, yeah, so I got my agents, Ihave two agents, um, and I got
them in the, in July.
(22:50):
Of last year, and that reallyjust came from like the
promotion of the ep, like inlike a span of like two weeks.
I went from like 2000 followersto like 10,000 Instagram
followers.
Wow.
Um, that's a big jump.
It was a very big jump and likeI never went like viral either.
Yeah.
Like I never had a video thatgot like 3 million views or
something.
I was, I got one that got like80,000, the next one get like
(23:11):
maybe 60,000.
The next one get like 120,000.
So it was like semi like viral,but not like viral.
But it felt like it was a reallygood.
Fan base and people who weregenerally into the, to the
style.
Um, and so that's where theagent came.
And then my manager, I've hadsince December, 2021, um, she's
been a friend of mine for quitesome time.
(23:32):
I had like 500 monthly listenersand she DMed me on Instagram and
was like, listen, I work at likethe USC school like, uh,
graduate program for uh, likemusic industry studies.
I want to be a manager.
I will be your manager.
I will do all the things thatyou don't wanna do with being an
artist, and I'll like, do it.
Wow.
For free.
And I was like, you're hired,like let's do it.
(23:54):
So she dmd you and was like, Iwant to, I want to help you.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's very cool.
She reached out one of like thefirst people who like ever
believed in what I was doing.
Jackie.
Right.
Jackie, shout out Jackie.
Shout out Jackie.
Hell yeah.
Um, so, yeah.
And that, that's so cool.
So what, what were you doingthat inspired her to reach out
to you?
(24:14):
I probably had like.
Five or six songs about at thistime.
And I, I think there was like atone point in 2021 where I had
one TikTok get like 10,000views, like something not even
that.
Yeah.
Crazy.
And I think she just like, shewas like, I found you from this.
And I just, I love every songthat Yeah.
And I had like six or five songsat that point.
Yeah.
Um, and, and that's a cool, youknow, I think when it comes to
(24:36):
the.
Artist manager relationship.
There's so many different waysthat it can look.
I think it's cool that like youwere both coming up together.
It's like she wasn't, everyonewants to get like the huge
manager.
Everyone wants to work with MoEasy.
Yeah.
Like, okay, cool.
But to find someone else that'slike, Hey, I'm.
I'm trying to build my career.
You're trying to build yours?
Yeah.
Let's, let's do it together.
It was like, let's work on thistogether.
So like, as she was learningthings about being a manager, I
(24:57):
was learning things about beingan artist.
So it just, it just workedreally well.
So Cool.
And she's part of, um, two plustwo management, so, which I now
just like, just signed for, sonow I'm like officially a part
of her, the management companyshe works for.
Hell yeah.
She was kind of having me aslike her side project for like
three years since then.
Yeah.
Yep.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
Um, and so this EP though, youguys dropped this EP and that
(25:18):
was a big moment.
You said you basically five Xedyour following.
Yeah.
Doing that.
What was that with a, a labelthat was independent.
That was, you did that totallyindependently.
Yeah, I did that.
So what, what, how was that sosuccessful?
Like you just came to, I wasjust posting every single day.
I was doing the red suit, thedance music needed a villain and
it just like.
People were listening.
And then I feel like Spotifystarted noticing me.
(25:40):
I like the first time I got onlike a Spotify playlist, I got a
cover on the Spotify playlist inlike January of 2024.
Um, for my house record, theauction sick.
So I was like, okay, this iscool.
'cause now Spotify knows who,who I am.
Yeah.
So like, even though I wasindependently.
Promoting this project.
I was still getting a couplesongs in, like the Bass arcade
playlist or like the Chad Mojitoplaylist.
(26:00):
I was like, wow, we don't have alabel and we're on these big
Spotify playlists.
So like, that's a good sign.
How are you getting on theSpotify playlist?
That's everyone's question islike, it seems like such a crazy
castle to breach.
I feel like everyone alwayswants to know how to get on
those editorial playlists, andI, I, I feel like I'm not the
one to like explicitly tell youlike there's only one way Yeah.
To do it because I don't.
(26:21):
Really know how it happened.
I mean, yeah, it's so elusive.
I mean, like my managercertainly did an amazing job
pitching it to distributors.
Like she knew like how toexplain my brand and have the
music, you know, kind of explainthe brand, explain the song.
So she obviously did great onpitching everything.
Um.
Yeah.
I mean, there's no real oneanswer, but I also wanna say
(26:41):
like, you know, once you do geton the editorials, it's not like
you've made it.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, that's what I thought whenI made got my first play.
I was like, oh my God, I'm gonnabe famous tomorrow.
Yeah.
Like I made it like, it's greatbecause now Spotify's know you
and you'll get like a, some sortof like passive streaming from
like editorials.
But that doesn't exclusivelymean those listeners from that
playlist are your fans.
(27:02):
You know, a lot of it's passivelistening.
That's true.
So it's a great stepping stone,but I I, it's not the most
important thing when it comes toreleasing music, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Good point.
I remember you saying on thisother podcast that I had
listened to from you, and thiswas I think maybe three years
ago or something that you did itprobably, uh, and you were, you
were saying, you're like, yeah,I.
You basically said you wereexcited to someday get a million
(27:23):
streams.
He was asking you like, what's,what's one of your goals?
You know, I don't wanna get amillion streams on, on one of my
records.
And you've done that now?
I did, yeah.
How does that feel?
I did it twice actually.
I did it on, on that houserecord, and then the, like me,
uh, hit a million.
Um, yeah, that was, that wasreally cool.
Um, how long did the excitementaround that last, um.
(27:46):
Like a couple days, honestly.
Okay.
Well, what really made it coolwas, um, I put this on my story
one day, the day after.
Um, I hit a million streams onthat song in my, like last
quarter of grad school after Ilike called it a quits.
I wrote down on one of theclasses, the professor said,
write down where you seeyourself in three years.
Like, like one year, two year,and three year.
(28:07):
What are you gonna be doing?
Mm-hmm.
And everyone obviously in theclass was like, I'm gonna be the
therapist by this point.
I have my private practice, I'llhave this.
And I wrote.
First a million streams, um,then tour.
Then play a festival.
Those, I'm gonna do those likeyear one, year two, year three,
and like after the, and I did itall in a different order.
(28:27):
Yeah.
Like I played my, the festival,I, it was the first thing I did.
I played hijinx in December andthe Zeds dead tour was the
second thing I did.
And the million streams was likethe last thing I did.
So I had it, but it was in areversal order.
But I, I did everything that Iwrote in that class that I wanna
do in three years.
And I did it in like a year anda half as well.
You knew, you knew what youwanted.
I knew what I wanted even inthat class, and I, I knew I was
(28:48):
like writing shit that wasdifferent than everyone, but
that was what I really wanted.
So once I, once that song camein, I was like, wow, I actually
just did every goal that I setfor that point.
Yeah.
Are you a big goal setter?
Do you like.
Do vision boards and write goalsdown, and I'm stuff, I'm really
not.
And I was even like, the factthat I wrote those goals and
then like, I found that piece ofpaper that I wrote, like
(29:09):
cleaning my closet.
I was like, oh my God.
Like I'm gonna keep this andlike, frame it actually.
Um, but I, I, once I hit amillion, my girlfriend was like,
all right, well now you need to.
Set some new ones.
I was like, you're right, I needto set.
Yeah.
Fucking new.
What's year and then like nextthree years.
So what are the next goals?
I'm still trying to figure outwhat, what those goals are.
Honestly.
I mean, I would say a headlinetour is, headline Tour is the
number one goal of mine rightnow for sure.
(29:30):
Which I'm planning for nextyear.
Yeah, early next year.
Yeah.
Is the plan right now.
Yeah.
Um, that would be really cool.
Okay.
Um, but the other two I haven'treally thought of yet, so Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
It's like, because it's, youknow, there's.
Streams, tours, shows.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
What else though?
Yeah, you were saying, you weresaying earlier that you, um,
(29:53):
you, you're interested in likefilm, film music too?
Yeah.
Once I, I, I say that like onceI've accomplished everything I
want with dance music, which isprobably like.
Headlining some festivals and,you know, getting a couple, I, I
want to make a hit record, likea billboard charting.
I just don't know if that's likereally me or like something that
(30:13):
you kind of like actively do.
But the point is like, once I doeverything I want with, uh,
dance music, I wanna move tofilm music.
'cause like film is also a biglove of mine.
Um, like film scoring that waslike, well, I took a class.
My favorite class ever incollege was.
Intro to film scoring, and Ijust showed up every day, like
super excited, like gen,genuinely excited for that
class.
So I really wanna get into that.
(30:35):
You see yourself, uh, you saidyou started making like hip hop
beats originally.
Mm-hmm.
You see yourself doing, like,producing for other artists or?
I would love to make hip hopbeats for people.
It's like hard because like, Ifeel like rappers, like when you
see, when they see like an EDMartist, like send you beats,
they're like, oh, EDMI don'twant to, you know, mess with
that.
But, um, I don't know.
I, that's definitely somethinglike.
(30:56):
Something I wanna do.
'cause I make, there's dayswhere I'm just like, okay, I
don't wanna make a bass songtoday.
Like I've done it the last fivedays when I'm like, get some hip
hop drums and make some hip hop.
So yeah.
So if you could produce for anyhip hop artist, who would that
be?
Like top dream artist to workwith?
Damn.
(31:17):
I like don't even have an answerto that one.
Gimme like three.
Three.
That would be cool to work with.
Tyler, the creator.
Childish Gambino.
If we're doing like dead oralive, I would probably do MF
Doom, just'cause that's also anicon of mine, just to have him
on, on the record.
Well, we just found your nextgoal then.
That's it.
Wait.
Yeah, that's it.
(31:38):
Get a get, get a, get a Trackwith Tyler, the Creator.
Yeah, that's probably a, a trackwith Childish Gambino.
Well, actually I'm a subChildish Gambino and do Jack
Harlow because he's fromLouisville, Kentucky and that's
where I'm from.
There we go.
That'd be really cool, Jack, ifyou're watching.
Let's make this shit happen.
You got your boy right here.
That'd be so cool.
Yo, put it down.
Yeah.
I'm gonna write it down.
(31:58):
Let's go.
We're gonna, we're going to comeback.
We're gonna clip this podcast inlike two years.
Yeah.
And be like, Hey, this is themoment it was manifested.
Hell yeah.
On this podcast.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Um, yeah, I'm curious to hearmore, you know, coming from.
Working in the, kinda like thetherapy space, you know?
Sure.
The counseling space.
(32:18):
Um, do you have any practicesthat you do to keep your mind
right in, in this fun, wild, andawesome journey of being an
artist?
Yeah.
Um, I guess for like, when itcomes to like that, I would, I
would say like writer's block issomething I think all artists
kind of deal with.
Mm-hmm.
Where like, you.
(32:39):
Dude, it's like when you're aproducer, it's like some days
you're just like, oh, I'm him.
I'm one of the greats.
And the other days like, I'mactually so bad.
Like I'm so bad.
'cause I, you just make three,you make three songs and they're
all terrible.
Like those days happen all thetime.
And that's when you get in thewriter's box'cause you feel like
you can't write anything.
Mm-hmm.
And for me it helps, uh.
Like for me to just like focuson my other hobbies.
So like, I love watching filmand just like, even like, not
(33:00):
even like watching film, butlike kind of analyzing it from
like a, like a director's pointof view and just like the film
scoring, like I really lovewatching film and then like,
getting outside as much as youcan.
I've been running a lot like 20,25.
I've been like at least two tothree times a week.
I'm trying to run as much as Ican.
Um, just getting outside and notthinking about.
Just the production for like acouple hours.
(33:21):
Just like kind of forget, I liketo like forget that song that I
wrote that day, so when I comeback the next day and remember,
oh, I did that.
Wait, let me change my base.
That sounds way better.
Yeah, it would just kinda likeSpark and remember Yeah.
How it should be.
Yeah.
Walk away from it a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you usually have multipleprojects that you're working on
at the same time?
Yeah, especially right now.
Yeah.
There's some weeks where thereyou have so much and others
(33:43):
where.
There's not, um, like right nowfinishing up this EP is a, I
mean, like, it's like beenfinished.
I'm just like suddenly liketweaking things here and there,
but I'm in like big collab modein 2025.
Yeah.
Um, so.
Yeah, I'm working with a bunchof different artists right now
and just like, like all of myreleases so far have been
(34:04):
collabs, which is something Ididn't do at all last year.
Maybe like one or two, but allof them collabs, I got a collab
with, uh, I, I think I'm allowedto say this, lose the child sick
coming up.
Um, hopefully I, I probablycan't say when, but I do have a
collab lucid out, and that'slike something that's Yeah.
Is really big for me as a artistthat like really.
Uh, grew up and took notes oftheir music growing up when I,
(34:27):
or when I was like starting KilaWickett, I was really studying
their music was such a big fan.
Yeah.
So just like be able to have asong with them is something
super cool.
That's super cool.
Um, so yeah.
Yeah.
So who, uh, back to that, thatsame question, I guess on the
collaboration side as like a,with the brand and your
electronic stuff, like who wouldbe like a awesome dream collab
that you'd.
Love to work with.
(34:48):
I mean, Skrillex for sure.
Yeah.
That's, that's, that's the God,yeah.
That's the one who was chosen.
It's like, Sonny, if you'rewatching Next collapse right
here, bro.
Watching.
Yeah.
We're we're we're manifestingit.
Yeah.
We're, we're just planting seedsis the manifest This be the
manifestation episode.
We're just gonna circle back toit.
Yeah.
It's just the moment.
It's just, the thing about himis that he.
Anytime he drops, especially aproject, he changes the game.
(35:11):
He shakes it up entirely.
Yeah.
And I just love artists who doesthat.
Um, and obviously Flu was likemy first dance music artist, but
I was like, you are my favoriteever.
So like I have those two as likemy holy grail of my favorites
ever.
So like those are the two that Iwould want to for sure.
Let's go goals.
Yes.
Put it on the goals list.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's cool, man.
(35:31):
I wanna go back to your, yourpassion for film.
Sure.
Who are some.
Directors and like what stylesof, and when you're like
analyzing films and movies.
Yeah.
What's your, what's your lane?
Who are you into?
It's funny, when I sayanalyzing, it's like I love
watching movies that I've likeseen so many times either that I
grew up on or just like watch,because now I like, since I know
(35:53):
how the story goes, I'm likelooking at it from a different
plot.
I'm like, wait, that cameraangle is sick.
Or like, yeah, wait.
I like how they cut it likethat.
So like I love watching it likethat, but I'm the biggest
Tarantino fan.
That's my number one.
Favorite director.
Like, it's hard for me to evenpick a favorite movies'cause all
of them are like, so yeah, theychange every month for me.
Um, he's a big one.
Um, Wes Anderson, justcinematography alone.
(36:14):
I think he's the best.
I mean, like, I honestly tooknotes from him for my content
videos because his whole thingare symmetrical shots.
Yeah.
Like every shot of his is likethe most sym symmetrically
beautiful shot.
And like, that's why it's alwayslike my content venues are
always like symmetrical.
You're gonna have my studio,you're gonna have the artwork in
the back.
I'm always in the middle of theframe like that.
That's really important to me.
Yeah.
Nowhere near the scale of whathe's doing, but I just like the
(36:37):
idea of like, symmetrical shots.
Yeah.
Makes sense to me.
So I really like that.
So like Tarantino, Wes Andersonare really cool.
I really like the SafieBrothers.
I don't know if you're, theydid, uh, uncut Gems that Adam
Samuel movie, but they, themovie they did before, that was
good time and I fucking lovethat movie.
Yeah.
It's like this like RobertPaton's greatest role ever.
That good.
Check out.
Good time.
That was good.
I didn't, I didn't love UncutGems though.
(36:57):
I was a little like, I reallyliked that movie.
A lot of people like.
If you, if you like the Safiestyle, which I do, you're into
it.
But like I, yeah, it's a style.
Yeah.
It's like they do stuff reallywell.
Yeah.
And then like on the filmscoring side, there's like the
goats that's like Han Zimmer,John Williams.
Yeah.
And then like, uh, Trent Resneris really cool.
Ludwig Gosen is like probablythe greatest right now.
(37:18):
Oh yeah, he did, uh,Oppenheimer, he did the score
for that.
I think he just did the sinners.
He's done a lot of score.
He's like the new, he's the man.
He's the new like John Williams.
That guy's crazy.
And he did the Awaken My LoveChild Gambino album.
He was one of the head producerson that, so he's awesome.
It like the mo it's like themodern, you know, like he's
bringing in like electronicstuff.
Yeah.
You know, it's not just like theclassical symphonic Yeah.
Cinematic stuff.
(37:39):
He cutting.
He's insane.
Cutting edge.
He's so good.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Um, I love though that you havethis passion for film and that
you're making the connection tolike, pulling that inspiration
into the brand, you know, andinto the marketing.
'cause it is like my, my kind offramework for, you know, what it
takes to be successful as anartist is first and foremost it
is the mindset.
Yeah.
(37:59):
Having the courage to fucking gofor it.
Yeah.
Having the courage to walk outtathat job that you don't love.
Yeah.
But then you really gotta makegood music.
Yeah.
Right.
That's kind of the product.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Um, but then you gotta have agood brand and you gotta be good
at marketing too.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And so, you know.
Seeing how, like you have beenable to hit all of those, um,
you know, with a character.
Mm-hmm.
(38:19):
Right.
Okay, cool.
I've got, I've got a character,I've got a vibe, I've got this,
uh, this style mm-hmm.
That's gonna pop out, you know,the, the, the villain of dance
music.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That it, it's like, not only doI have the sound, but.
You know, like, uh, my, myfriend Chris runs a branding
agency, marketing agency calledThe Cult Creatives.
Cool.
And he always says that themusic is the soundtrack to the
(38:40):
movie.
You know, a lot of producerswere just focused on the music.
Mm-hmm.
What's the movie that you'recreating though?
Mm.
You're creating the movie I, theKey To The Wicked.
That's cool.
And you've got the character,you've got the style.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then the marketingthough too, you said like, you
know, back to your, your ep likeyou were just posting every day.
Mm-hmm.
Like how, like that I think Idraw that back to the mindset
too of like, Hey, are you.
Willing to put yourself outthere every day.
(39:01):
Yeah.
Right.
Which a lot of people kind ofhave a block and resistance
around.
Most people are just like,they're, they're really scared
at the end of the day of puttingtheir, they're scared of like
their peers judging them orstrangers judging them, but
like.
If it really doesn't matter,like you just gotta, you just
gotta have a thick skin aboutit, and you have to also know
that they don't really get it,you know?
(39:22):
Yeah.
No one gets it until you like,kind of make it, and then, and
then suddenly everyone gets it,you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Like there's certainly people,sorry, there's certainly people
from like either high school orcollege that definitely when I
started this.
Didn't, you know, they thoughtit was stupid or just like, it
wasn't, like it wasn't gonnawork.
And it's just like, yeah, Idon't really care.
(39:42):
I'm just gonna keep doing itbecause like, I think it's gonna
work.
So, yeah.
And I think nine times outta 10,we think people care, but
really, nine times outta 10,nobody actually fucking cares.
They don't, nobody gives a shitabout what you're doing.
Yeah.
Really.
Yeah.
You know, like very few peopleactually care.
And especially when it comes toputting yourself out there, it's
like, you know.
(40:03):
People are looking at a hundredpieces of content every day.
Yeah.
They're not gonna like latchonto that one thing that you put
out.
And like, nobody's, nobody's, Ihate to say it, it's like nobody
cares and nobody's payingattention.
Yeah.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Until you really start to yeahknow, like put some real shit
out that does start to movethings.
But um, yeah.
In the beginning, I dunno, it's.
(40:24):
Most people are not payingattention to what we're doing.
Yeah.
No one, no one really cares,honestly.
So just like do it, you know?
Yeah.
It's like you never know who'swatching at the end of the day.
Like,'cause when you start out,you're, you're, you're
definitely gonna have like thosevideos, like if you're posting
every day, they're like gettingmade only like 500 views or
something.
Or like maybe.
Couple thousand, you're like,okay, no one really cares.
But it's like, do you reallyknow?
(40:44):
You really never know who'swatching.
Like you, you don't know howmany label ars are just kind of
like looking for that nextthing.
Yeah.
Like they're one of those 500like viewers.
Like you, you really never know.
Totally.
Totally.
And it's, it's funny too becausea lot of times people, you know,
some people are watching, butpeople are, aren't saying
anything.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so it's like maybeyou're not getting the comments
(41:06):
or the love or the validationthat you're seeking, but.
So many times people are seeingstuff, they're just not saying
anything about it.
They might think it's reallyfucking cool mm-hmm.
But they might not like it.
Yeah.
They might not comment on it.
Mm-hmm.
But like, they still actuallythink it's cool.
Yeah.
You never know who you're,you're impacting and who is, um,
like I said, who's watching?
Right.
You know, I actually just, uh,decided to start doing,'cause I
(41:27):
was noticing some resistance toposting with myself.
Like I'll just get kind of lazyand I'll just post podcast
clips.
Right.
But not make, um, my owncontent.
Yeah.
Just like, kind of speak to thecamera and so many different
types of content I could bemaking.
So I was like, you know what?
Fuck it.
I'm gonna do like a 30 daychallenge with myself.
Right.
And just like, I'm gonna justpost every day for 30 days.
Stay accountable.
Yeah.
Just, just to flex the muscle.
(41:47):
Mm-hmm.
Just to flex the.
The, I don't give a fuck muscleand just get reps in, you know,
and maybe I'll figure out somestrategies along the way that
work, but it's like whatever theinner resistance is that might
feel like, uh, yeah, are peoplegonna judge me or caring too
much about like, you know, whatit is that I'm putting out.
So, it was funny'cause likeliterally the very first, I just
flipped on my camera instead of.
(42:08):
Thinking so hard about what I'mgonna post.
I've flipped on my camerarecorded like a two, like a, you
know, took two minutes to justrecord some shit talking to the
camera and then, and then threwit out.
And then it was like, yeah, Ihad like laid back.
Luke commented on it like alittle bit later.
I was just like, it, it kind ofblew my mind.
I was just like, the, which issomeone I, I love and respect
and really, you know, reallylook up to.
I was like, wow, that was socool that like, I.
(42:30):
Took 30 seconds to post someshit that like, took me no
energy or effort.
And, um, yeah, like you said,you never know who's watching.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I was like, oh, thatwas, that was kind of like a
cool little like universe nudge.
Yeah.
You just, just put shit out.
Just post it, man.
Yeah.
Just do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what are you most excitedabout?
What are you looking forward to?
(42:50):
I am really excited for this,uh, next EP that I've been
working on.
Um, yeah, just really beenworking hard on that.
And then this basically nextmonth is just like all, it's
like festival season.
So like every weekend I'm likedoing back to back festivals, so
I'm super excited for that, justto see all these new cities and
have my friends come aboard and,you know.
(43:11):
Come and do like, just, just tosee me I think will be really
great.
Um, even this, this Atlanta,this breakaway Atlanta that I'm
playing, um, one of my best, mybest friend from college, he was
like, when I was, when I firststarted Quila Wicked, he was
like making my cover arts andlike shooting me.
We would always talk about howlike, you know, one day I'm
gonna do this DJ thing andyou're, you're gonna come with
me as like my videographer.
(43:32):
'cause he always wanted to gointo concert photography.
So I'm coming to Atlanta wherehe lives and I'm like, alright,
you're gonna be my media forthis.
Let's go.
So he and he is taking it superseriously.
And I have my, another kid fromschool who's gonna be my tour
manager for that show, and he isgonna do another one that I'm
doing in, in Canada.
And he always really wanted towork in the music industry.
I was always like, all right,you're gonna, so like all these
people who.
Kind of believed in me when Ifirst started and also had that
(43:55):
love for like, whether it's likemedia or just music in general
or just like creating something.
Just being a part of it.
I'm just like, all right, you'recoming with me now, like we're
gonna do this together.
So dude, I love that.
Bring Bringing the homies withyou.
Yeah, it's like entourage.
Literally it's my entourage.
And like the people who like sawthe vision from the beginning
are now getting to be a.
Part of it.
That's so sick, man.
I think it's so important toenjoy the journey.
(44:16):
Yeah.
By the way, it's so easy to getcaught up and like, okay, what's
the, the next level to get to?
And like, I gotta grind andhustle.
And it's like, wait.
I was like, it's happening.
It's happening right now.
I swear week in and week out.
My main anxiety is like, am Istill relevant?
Like, are people like forgettingabout me?
Like, all right, I gotta dothis, but I'm, it's like last,
I'm like, wow, this is.
Great.
I'm like doing all thesefestivals like this is gonna be
awesome.
So it's like I definitely gottatake time to appreciate, you
(44:37):
know, yeah.
How I feel.
And I am very grateful forwhat's coming.
So yeah, it's been good.
Mm-hmm.
But you notice those thoughtscome up though, of the, am i, am
I still relevant?
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Am I doing okay?
Are people forgetting about me?
Because like, especially itfeels like, it feels hard to
kind of like stay relevant now.
Like I, you always gotta beposting all the time.
'cause people's attention spansare.
(44:58):
You always are trying to get onthat spot on the festival.
Like I'm trying to get the, myslot like later in the night
now.
Yeah.
You know, like I'm trying to, solike how do I do that?
Yeah.
So like trying to like not onlybe relevant, but be the most
relevant person.
Yeah.
And it can be a lot to process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and here's the truth.
It doesn't end.
Yeah.
Because you get to that nextspot.
Yeah.
And then there's the next spotabove.
Okay.
How do I headline though?
(45:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, you know, that's somethingI, I really coach on a lot is
it's what I call like the insideout game.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Where most people were playingthe outside in game is like,
well, once I get to that nextspot, then I can.
You know, be enough.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Then I can feel that sense ofpeace.
Right.
'cause I, and until then I'mhaving this anxiety of like, am
(45:39):
I relevant?
Right?
And, and so we're, we'restriving and hoping that, well,
once I get the next time slot,once I get the, you know, the
more money or whatever, thenI'll be happier.
Like, exactly.
There's a feeling that we'rechasing.
Right.
And, and the whole idea of likethe inside out game is like, yo,
we, we gotta, we gotta feel thatnow.
Mm-hmm.
And come from that place like,yo, I'm already, I'm already
there.
I'm already him.
(46:00):
I'm already, you know, thatmakes me think about like,
people like Zed, who is by theway, like probably the most
famous person I know we've like,talked a little bit on, on
Instagram, but like he's, had hejust headline Coachella, like, I
mean he headlines everyfestival.
Yeah.
Like how many times he's been onthe billboard, like top 100.
It's just like, what?
Like how, what, what more can hedo?
Like, I don't like what is hismindset through stuff like that?
Like it's so insane to thinkabout stuff like that.
(46:22):
Yeah.
There's a, there's a good clipfloating around of Will Smith
talking about like the two.
Places of like the biggestdepression, which is like when
you're at rock bottom.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, you just have,there, you're, you're at that
pit of, you know of it, but alsowhen you're at the top,'cause
then you have everything.
(46:42):
Mm-hmm.
And you're like, damn, I'mstill.
Not actually still empty.
Empty.
Yeah.
I just still don't actually havethe thing I've been chasing this
whole time.
Yeah.
And there's like a hugedepression that can come from
that as well.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, back to I thinkjust like the, the inner game
man of how do we, how do weenjoy the process?
Yeah.
You know, where this was comingfrom.
I think it's so cool to seelike, you're bringing the homies
with you.
Mm-hmm.
(47:02):
It's like, yeah.
Like.
It all gets to be fun now atthis stage.
Yeah.
You know, I remember I, I usedto work with, um, uh, David
GTA's manager.
Cool.
And, um, I had just signed myfirst like baby acts, you know,
that I was developing as amanager.
And she was.
Working with David gta, who wasthe number one or number two, DJ
(47:23):
Mag, you know, DJ that year.
He's still like number three.
Most listened to artist onSpotify.
He's, I, I hate, I hate how muchhate he gives, by the way.
I will just say he's actuallyone of the most like, authentic
artists.
He is fucking, like, he justloves making music with cool
people.
That's his whole thing.
And he gets so much hate.
But I remember her telling me,she's like, wow, I really wish.
She's like, I actually missbeing where you are right now.
Mm-hmm.
On like the come up.
(47:44):
Because she's like, the game nowis like, how do we, how do we
stay?
Yeah.
How do you stay on top?
Yeah.
She's like, the game isdifferent.
She's like, it's like that, thatgame of coming up.
She's like, that's like, that'sthe fun.
That's the adventure.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
I think we get to just get tomake sure we really fucking
enjoy it.
Yeah.
This, this is definitely thecoming up in the game.
It's definitely the fun partright now.
For sure.
Yeah.
And.
I was excited, man.
(48:05):
Well, you are definitely comingup.
I'm so excited to see what thisnext year holds for you.
I'm so excited to see you throwdown tonight with Z's dead.
It's gonna be fun.
Our course project, it's gonnabe, it's gonna be a lot of fun.
So yeah, man.
Thanks so much for comingthrough to take the time and,
and share all this great stuffwith everyone, dude.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
there's gonna be a time where.
(00:01):
Your parents aren't gonna getit.
Your friends aren't gonna listento it.
No one's really gonna care, butas long as you care, that's all
that matters.
Nik Cherwink (00:23):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner Mindsetpodcast.
This week's guest is one of thehottest rising acts in the bass
music scene.
In this episode, we talk abouthis creative process behind his
hit records, the inspirationbehind his brand and his
courageous decision to drop outof grad school and go all in on
his artist project.
This is Nikita the wicked.
Nikita, welcome to the show.
(00:44):
I'm so stoked that you're hereand, and when I mean here,
literally here you are.
Literally here.
I'm here with me for everybodylistening on Spotify.
We're here in Austin, alive andin the Flesh.
Yes.
I love it.
Yeah, super hyped to be here.
My first time in Austin as well.
First time in Austin and kind offirst podcast too.
Yeah, a small one a few yearsago.
Yeah, just a small one with areally good friend of mine, but
(01:06):
yeah, it was like the first likeofficial one, so yeah.
Yeah, dude.
Hell yeah.
Excited.
I feel very honored.
Thanks so much for being downto, to hop on.
Yeah.
Hell yeah, man.
Um, I would love to start off byjust hearing a bit about your
story.
Like when did you startproducing music?
What got you into it?
Sure.
Yeah, man, I, uh, I startedproducing music in high school
actually around 20 16, 20 17.
(01:27):
I was making hip hop beats thatwere just terrible.
Um, that, that was like very,what I first started with hip
hop was always my first love.
And then I went to college atthe University of South Carolina
and got really into.
DJing.
Yeah.
And kind of in my earlier yearsof college, I put producing
aside, I was just DJing at allthe parties around there.
And then towards the end I kindof saw that like DJing can only
(01:47):
get you so far.
Yeah.
Without actual production.
So that senior year, July, 2020is when I started to key the
wicked going into my senior ofcollege, and I just like really
went into it.
I was just like taking notes tostart my day, going to class,
coming back.
Producing music for like fourhours and then like playing
shows at night.
So that was kinda like my dailyroutine.
(02:07):
Damn.
And so at that point, did youhave.
The vision and, and the goal ofbeing like, I, I really want to
do this.
I want to actually become like aprofessional artist and dj, or
was it still kind of a, a hobbythat you were having fun with?
I think it was definitely at thetime, it was something I really
took seriously, especially atlike South Carolina where dance
music wasn't very prevalent.
It felt like people maybe didndidn't understand it as much,
(02:28):
but I definitely knew that thisis like all I wanted to kind of
learn about and just like evolveYeah.
With it.
So, yeah.
And, and then.
You went to grad school afterthat?
I did.
Well, so I was really curious todig into this because I am, you
know, this is the headlinermindset.
Sure.
I am all about, you know, mentalhealth and wellness.
Yep.
And, and the just yeah.
The, the, the mindset side of,you know, just success and even
(02:51):
just being human navigating,like the, that, that, that
stuff.
And so you went to grad schoolfor psychology?
Clinical psychology.
Clinical psychology.
So what was your vision withthat?
And I guess your inspiration to,to, to.
Go in that direction.
Yeah.
So I went to, uh, Palo AltoUniversity.
It's a really small school, um,right by Stanford, and I was
just there for, it was a twoyear program to go into therapy.
(03:14):
Mm-hmm.
Um, because I, my undergrad was,uh, experimental psychology, so
I knew like the next route foracademic wise was to get into
grad school.
And I just knew that wherever Iwanted to, like, wherever, like
psychology took me, I, I justknew I had to be in California.
So like I just knew thatCalifornia was where I had to
be.
I think internally I knew like.
I wanted to do music and I needto be in California, and school
(03:35):
was just a way to get me there.
It made my parents happy that Iwas like, oh my God, you under
grad school?
And so I was like, that kind ofbrought me there.
But yeah, I see.
That's how it went.
I see.
Okay.
So there was almost like anunconscious pole, like I think
so I'm supposed to be here inthe entertainment capital of the
world.
I think so, yeah.
Right.
Okay.
And so.
Was there, there was also a partof you though, that like, wanted
(03:56):
to become a therapist.
You know, I, I think there was apart of me internally that saw a
career path within psychology.
I felt like even in undergrad,I, I, I found the coursework
very, I liked learning about it,um, to like, I really liked the,
like learning about it in theclasses, but it really came down
to once I did my firstinternship.
Um, at the, in grad school whereI really was not.
(04:19):
Yeah, I, I, I figured it likecame to me that this was not the
path for me.
Yeah.
And that was also the time whereI was also still working super
hard at music at the same time.
So it was kind of a split downtwo roads basically.
Yeah.
So you were just starting totell me, uh, of.
Cool.
Part of your story with like themoment that you decided that you
were not gonna continue mm-hmm.
(04:40):
With with grad school?
Yeah.
Share that because I wanna sharemy story as well.
Sure.
Because it's actually prettysimilar.
Yeah.
So, I, I didn't finish gradschool.
Um, I came into grad school.
Like I, I completed all mycoursework and when I did my
first internship where I justsaid I, I really did enjoy it, I
was.
I was working at a middle schoolin the, uh, Tenderloin District
of San Francisco.
If you dunno what that is, it'slike one of the most like
(05:01):
dangerous, like kind of badparts of San Francisco.
So I saw a lot of like reallymessed up things and then just
kind of going into this middleschool, being a counselor and I
just, I.
I felt like I was doing a badjob.
I felt like my like supervisorthought I was doing a bad job.
And what really made me notappreciate it or just made me
feel bad was that I knew thatthese kids needed a counselor
(05:24):
who really had a hundred percentof their heart in the crap in
the profession.
Yeah.
And I knew I wasn't in it.
Yeah.
So it just gave me a lot ofanxiety, like a lot of stress
and.
Fast forward to my secondinternship.
Um, I basically walk into adifferent internship and on the
very first day of orientation,they gave me like 50 to 70 files
of just paperwork, paperwork tolook at and fill out.
(05:47):
And it was just in that moment Istood up and I walked out and I
was like, I'm not, I'm not doingthis.
Yeah, dude.
I was kind of the start and, andit's like you can feel it in
your body if you know thatthere's a misalignment.
Right.
Like there is a calling, thereis a purpose, there is a passion
and a gift inside of me thatwants to come out for you.
That's being an artist andmaking music when you're doing
shit that's not in alignmentwith that.
(06:08):
Like, you're gonna feel it,right?
And in that moment you, you,that was like the straw that
broke the camel's back.
It really was.
It, it really takes a lot of, Ifeel like.
Courage, I felt like to just belike, I cannot go down this
Totally, dude.
It takes fucking courage, man.
And, and I, it's like I reallywant to hammer this point home
because I think that there's alot of people, not just artists,
but a lot of people that areshowing up and doing something
(06:30):
every day and they're like, Iknow this is not.
What I was born to do.
Yeah.
It is like, this is not it, butit's scary.
Yeah.
It's scary to take that leap.
Faith, very scary.
It requires a lot of courage.
Mm-hmm.
It requires, I mean, it reallyis a leap of faith.
You have to have faith.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta trust that.
Like if you follow your bliss,as Joseph Campbell says, follow
your bliss and the universe willopen doors where there were only
walls.
(06:50):
Wow.
Right.
Trust that if I jump, I'll beokay.
Mm-hmm.
Because you know it likelistening to that, that kind of
inner conflict, it's like.
It's just, it's speaking soloudly.
It's speaking so clearly.
Not in words, but in feeling.
Yeah.
Right.
And you gotta follow thatfeeling.
Mm-hmm.
So for me, I wanna sharesimilarly, I am right outta
(07:10):
college.
I graduated on Saturday, movedin with a girlfriend on Sunday,
started a job at a financialadvising firm on Monday.
Wow.
About two months into thisfinancial advising job, I
remember having a call with afriend and she told me how she
had, uh, signed up to do LSATclasses to study, to go to law
(07:31):
school.
Yeah.
And she was like, I went to thefirst day of classes.
I sat down in the chair and likehalfway through the class I
realized.
What the fuck am I doing here?
Like, this is not for me.
Like I just know in my soul,this is not it.
Yeah.
And she got up in the middle ofthe class and just left.
Mm-hmm.
In the middle of it.
Mm-hmm.
And it hit me like a lightningbolt.
I was on my way to meet withlike a potential client for this
(07:52):
financial advising job, and itjust hit me so hard.
I was like.
This is not it.
Yeah.
Like this ain't it.
Yeah.
And so I went on the spot.
I told the client like, Hey,thanks for meeting with me, but
like I'm about to go quit myjob.
I just drove into the office,quit the job on the spot.
Wow.
Came home, told the, told, toldmy girlfriend.
I was like, Hey, like this isnot, this is not for me.
Mm-hmm.
Like I gotta go chase something.
Wow.
I don't even know what it is,but like, this is not it.
(08:14):
Mm-hmm.
And so a, a ton of fuckingcourage.
It took a ton of courage.
I ended up moving to LA with athousand dollars and knew one
person.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, a year later hadmy own office in capital
records.
Wow.
But it's like.
It requires that fucking leap offaith.
Yeah.
And like listening to thatvoice.
So I just love that part of yourstory.
Yeah.
That, that you went for it.
Yeah.
It, it's, it's especially hard,especially in those earlier days
(08:35):
of like music production where.
Especially like my first sixmonths when I moved to San
Francisco and I didn't, I didn'tknow anyone.
I was like 2000 miles away fromall my family and friends.
'cause I'm from Kentucky andwent to school in South
Carolina.
So I was, I was pretty sad.
I didn't know anyone.
I was in this program that Ididn't know if it was for me,
but I was spending all my timemaking music and doing music
(08:55):
production and like one thing Itold myself was like, or
something I say, I used to teachlessons as well.
One thing I would say is like,there's gonna be a time where.
Your parents aren't gonna getit.
Your friends aren't gonna listento it.
No one's really gonna care, butas long as you care, that's all
that matters.
What keeps you going in thosemoments?
Just that.
Just that belief, that justbelieve in yourself when no one
(09:17):
else will.
You just gotta know that youhave it.
And even like a year or two intothe Quila Wicked Project, I knew
that in my production that Ihad.
That there was something hereand there were just a couple of
other artists that were a bitbigger than me, who when they
would, you know, follow me likeme and be like, yo, you're
really good.
I was like, okay.
That the fact that they thinkthis.
Yeah.
And I have like 500 monthlylisteners at the time means like
(09:38):
there could, there could besomething here.
Yeah.
So you just gotta keep going.
Yeah.
Keep your head down, keep going.
What would you say has been yourdriving force behind.
Pursuing this path and thisproject.
It was just something I've, I'vealways, um, wanted to do since I
came to college and startedDJing.
It was just like, I feel likethat feeling of playing live in
(09:58):
front of people was somethingthat just.
It's like a feeling like, likeno other can compare it to such
bliss and such happiness where,and especially at a point now
where now you get to play yourown music and people are singing
the lyrics to your songs.
It's such a beautiful moment.
It's like, how, how could it getbetter than this?
So that's just like, it's just,I just really love playing live
and just having my music justlike, you know, means something
(10:21):
to people.
So I think that's what drivesme.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now I'm curious to hear aboutyour creative process.
Sure.
Because I'll be honest, I'm not.
I'm notoriously not the biggestlike base head in the world.
Sure.
I'm more on the house side.
Cool.
I'm actually a big metal head.
That's my, that's kind of mymain thing, right.
Uh, I'm more like progressivehouse sort of scene.
(10:42):
I'm, I'm definitely, uh.
Loving a lot more bass musicthese days.
Mm-hmm.
Um, my girlfriend is a huge basshead.
Cool.
And so she's throwing onplaylists and shit, and it was,
you know, just relativelyrecently that she was playing a,
a, a, a playlist and like, um,your song, what's the what the,
the big song that you havethat's like me.
(11:06):
Like me, yeah.
Right.
That song came on.
I was like.
You know, I did a double take.
I'm like, what, what is this?
I was like, I like, what thefuck is this?
Who is this artist?
Like, this is fucking cool.
Mm-hmm.
And then I was like, okay, cool.
Nikita the Wicked Dope.
And then, uh, you know, she wasplaying some other songs or
whatever, and then another songcomes on.
I was like, I was like, is thisthat same guy?
I was like, there's like, andshe's like, yeah, this is the
(11:27):
same one.
And there's a, there's a soundand a vibe and a flavor that's
just different.
And like you have your own.
Energy and spice, you know?
Yeah.
That it's like, even as like a,like I, I'm just a, you know,
again, yeah.
A non base head, but just amusic person mm-hmm.
That I feel like you havesomething really unique and
(11:48):
different mm-hmm.
That you're bringing to thescene and that, that, that,
that, that you're bringing.
So, appreciate it.
I wanna like, dig into yourcreative process.
Sure.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I guess I'm justcurious about what does that
look like for you when you, whenyou sit down, how do you, how do
you produce?
Where do you draw inspiration?
I, I know a lot of artists are.
Maybe struggling to find theirsound or dealing with creative
blocks or, or a big thing islike chasing other sort of
(12:10):
sounds.
Doesn't sound like you're doingthat at all.
So what does your process looklike?
I mean, certain, certainly inthe earlier stages it was a
bunch of chasing differentsounds and trying and pretty,
like if you listen to mydiscography, like I started with
like future base and then I madetrap and then I went back to
future bass and then I made abig house song and then now I'm
a bass artist.
So like I've kind of beenaround, yeah.
(12:32):
Uh, like different genres.
And like I always say toartists, like, when you try to
like, produce different genres,it will make your own sound that
much better because it showsthat you can, you're a very
versatile artist and you cantake a piece of this style and a
piece of that style and put ittogether, and that's kind of
what replicates your sound.
Um, I think that's reallyimportant.
And for me, like I'm a, I'm abig, um.
(12:52):
Sample guy in terms of likereally digging in the crates and
finding something unique.
And that's, that really comesfrom my love of hip hop.
Yeah.
Um, like the producer of TheAlchemist is one of my, um,
biggest like inspirations andjust the way he samples and
chops up these, like some likeJapanese record from like 1972.
Some like soul stuff.
Like I really like doing that.
And it's cool because in hip hopthey do it so well.
(13:14):
But in dance music, it seemslike it's not done.
Yeah.
As enough.
Yeah.
So I always like, if I'm gonnastart something from scratch,
I'm gonna like look for somereally weird sample and start
there.
That's kind of how I like tostart.
Cool.
Yeah.
Well I love the permission toexplore.
Yeah, right.
Like play with other genres.
Mm-hmm.
Try different things.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople are kind of trying to
lock in on their lane and, andthat is a.
(13:36):
A question I get a lot of like,oh, should I focus on one sound?
You know, because like a lot ofpeople say you should have
consistency.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas a lot of people, I thinktheir heart and soul kind of
wants to make different shit.
Yeah.
And it seems like a lot ofartists almost don't give
themselves permission to dothat.
Mm-hmm.
Play around, make a house song.
Yeah.
You know, get, get a little.
Well,'cause most of the time youdon't even know what your sound
(13:58):
is.
Yeah.
And you won't for like a longtime.
Like it, sometimes the audienceknows your sound better than
you.
Mm-hmm.
Like when my fans will hear likethe first like five seconds of
my song, like, oh, that's aNikila Wickett song.
It's just like, how do they.
Know that bef like, that's crazythat they just know the certain
production.
Mm-hmm.
Um, like I, I guess likedecisions you make, that's what
(14:19):
your sound is.
And it's really easy for like abig artist to be like, well,
just find your sound and you'll,and you'll break out.
It's just like, okay.
It's, that's easier said thandone.
Yeah.
Like, you won't really know yoursound.
This sound will kind of come toyou by the decisions you make
mm-hmm.
While you're making a song.
Yeah.
That's what I think.
You feel like you've found thatfor yourself now?
I, I think so.
I, I guess like.
I, I like to think I've found mysound and certainly like my
(14:41):
friends and my audience seems toreally appreciate my sound.
I think with this next project,um, that I am about, I'm about
to release here soon.
My next EP it will definitelyfully show the sound that I'm
on, basically the songs I'vebeen leading up to this sound,
um, that is Nik Le Wicken.
I, so I'm really excited forthat project.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious to get your thoughtson this,'cause I see this happen
(15:03):
where you find your sound.
Mm-hmm.
And.
You start becoming successful.
Mm-hmm.
People start liking you forthat, and now that's what you're
getting booked for.
Mm-hmm.
That's what you're getting paidfor.
Mm-hmm.
You know, now you're paying thebills with this business that
you've created right.
Around your sound.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes artists can getkind of, uh, pigeonholed or feel
(15:25):
the pressure Yeah.
To be like, well, I gotta keepdoing this thing.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's working.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
And I see some artists that do,and then there's other artists
that really allow themselves tocontinuously reinvent themselves
and continue to explore.
Mm-hmm.
How do you feel about that?
What are your thoughts on that?
I completely agree.
I mean, I'm, I'm well aware.
(15:45):
I'm, I'm the bass guy.
I'm like, I'm kind of like thenew kid on the block in bass
music.
I'm pretty aware of that, um,title right now.
And like, that's cool.
Like, I'm, right now I lovemaking bass music and
especially, and more of like mystyle of bass music.
Yeah.
'cause it's like, I wouldn'treally like call my stuff like
dubstep or I wouldn't reallycall it like rhythm or like,
even like garage.
(16:06):
It's kind of just like.
Bits and pieces of all of it.
Yeah.
Um, I think that's more uniqueand just the, like, the fact
that I started in differentgenres and now I'm in bass.
Like my biggest song before mylast ep, the auction was like a
deep house record.
It was like an art house record.
And it's just like, it like.
Maybe one day I wanna return tothat phase, um, when I've like
accomplished everything I wantto accomplish in bass music.
(16:28):
But right now, like, I totallyunderstand like, this is what's
paying the bills.
Like you could get burnt outmaking this style all the time.
But I would say like, you know,don't put yourself in a box.
And I love it when artists likeevolve with sound.
Yeah, totally.
Um, like it just shows growth,like evolution of an artist I
think is really important.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Well, well, one, I love thatit's like.
You're making bass music thateven non bass heads like Yeah.
(16:51):
Which is cool.
Yeah.
Me being one of them.
Uh, but also just, I guess Iwould, I really, I, I just
really want to see everyonecontinue to evolve.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Um, to continue.
I think that that is the, therole of an artist is to continue
to explore.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And.
Your inspiration takes you in anew direction.
(17:13):
You gotta have, back to courage,you gotta have the courage.
Take that leap of faith.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, okay, maybe this is what'sfamiliar and it gets familiar
and you know, you build theaudience and the following.
Yeah.
If you have that spark and thatcalling, like, oh, go make the
fucking deep house song.
Like, have the courage to dothat.
A lot of artists don't,especially like if you're fans
like really, truly love you,they will ride with you.
Yeah.
You know, regardless, they'llalways appreciate your sound
(17:34):
because like, it doesn't make,it doesn't matter if I make.
A, a house or like a, a futurebass song, like it's still gonna
be a Nik the Wicked record atthe end of the day.
Like those decisions that I makewill still be apparent in all,
all my songs at the end of theday.
Yeah, totally.
And so it's obviously about morethan just the music these days
as well.
There's like the audience and,and the social media.
(17:54):
Yep.
Um, tell me about, I guess, the.
brand of Nikita, the Wicked.
Sure.
And your relationship withsocial media, that's a, that's a
sticking point for a lot ofpeople.
Yeah.
They really love making musicall day, but they don't really
want to put themselves outthere.
What have you been finding, uh,I guess, kind of just works for
you and being like authenticwith your brand and your
(18:16):
marketing and your social media?
Yeah, sure.
Um, it all really kind of camedown to last summer when I
released my, my EP independentlycalled, um.
I love it when they run.
And that was kind of the idea ofthat was I was like, okay, I
know what I'm, I'm gonna wearthis red suit and I'm gonna play
this like villain character ofthis project.
And then I started this catchphrase that was like, dance
(18:37):
music needed a villain.
Yeah.
So at the end of every video itended with dance music needed a
villain and it was, it was likedance music has a lot of heroes
now.
It needs a villain.
Yeah.
And like people really.
Appreciated that they like, theyunderstood it.
Um, and especially like the RedSue, like I got to play a
character with that project.
Um, and I, I think the idea ofplaying characters is really
cool and really not done a lotin dance music as well.
(19:00):
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, just, I feel likea lot of people are trying to
chase that hit single where Ireally like that, you know,
building a whole projecttogether.
So like that last ep, thisupcoming one, so I'm planning my
next character for this nextproject too.
But in terms of like the contentside, like, yeah, I was just
kind of like, really.
Ingraining this character withit.
And like people like always, uh,like comment on like the way I
(19:20):
move, like in my videos.
Yeah.
And when you see me live andlike, that's pretty apparent.
Like that's just kind of how Idigest music.
And also like I.
Grew up, I did eight years ofballroom dancing, so like I am
Oh, cool.
I Dan, like my whole childhoodwas dancing, so like now that I
produce, like that's how musiccomes to me.
Like that's just how it is.
So, love that man.
Yeah, I love that.
I think that's a great point.
(19:40):
It was like, bring all ofyourself into.
Your brand, right?
Yeah.
Like, cool, you've got abackground in ballroom dancing.
Bring that in.
Mm-hmm.
You know, you're a exskateboarder.
Bring that in.
Yeah.
You know, show people who youare.
And, and I think that's, uh,yeah, that's, it's, it's all
about expression.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That was something that jumpedout at me as well once I started
(20:01):
like, following you and, andoutside of just listening to the
music, but then seeing Yeah,just you and like.
Just the vibe and the swag, evenlike the fashion, you know, I,
I, I was like, oh, this guy'sgot, like, he's got a look.
The grandpa style.
Yeah, yeah, dude.
Which is so cool.
It's one of my favorite thingsactually is contrast.
Mm-hmm.
When you think of like bassmusic, there's kind of like a,
an aesthetic mm-hmm.
That goes with that.
(20:22):
Mm-hmm.
That is also very overly done.
You know, like everyone kind offalls into that same sort of
aesthetic.
Mm-hmm.
And then when.
When you pop out, you're like,yeah, I sound like this, but I
look like this.
Mm-hmm.
And it's almost like a patterninterrupt in your brain.
Mm-hmm.
Which I love.
I love when people do that.
Yeah.
So you nailed that.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
It's something that a lot ofpeople aren't thinking about
really?
Yeah.
Like, how am I, how am Ipresenting myself mm-hmm.
(20:44):
Visually as an artist.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and styleclothing.
Like that's a part of it that Ithink a hundred percent is
becoming more and more.
Part of the game.
It's like, I, I bring this upall the time, but, you know, EDM
as a blanket, umbrella term forelectronic music is kind of the,
the new kid on the block of themajor, like food groups, you
(21:04):
know, there's rock pop, hip hop,like, but like a rapper's gonna
dress like a fucking rapper.
They're gonna, they're gonnahave, they, they know style is
important.
Mm-hmm.
A pop artist is gonna come outand like, look the part.
And I think finally, you know,DJs are starting to like, catch
onto that as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Like.
Be an artist.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
It's, I think individuality,like the fashion true, like I,
(21:26):
it's, it's not even fashion.
Like I, Tyler the creator islike a, a huge inspiration of
mine.
Like the whole characterbuilding arc was him, and just
like his, his fashion style issomething I really.
Like, just like just thecollared shirts and the slacks.
I think it's, it's a reallyunique vibe, especially in dance
music.
'cause like all DJs wear ourblack tees.
That's it.
Yeah.
It's so boring.
I can't have it anymore with theblack tees.
(21:47):
It's so boring.
I mean, I get it because likeyou DJ you sweat and like with
the Black Tee, no one's gonnasee it, but it's like, I can't,
I'm not, yeah.
I'm not trying to wear that.
I'm just not.
I saw, I saw Lane eight lastnight.
Yeah.
Really?
Which, first off, it was a, nophones allowed.
Show.
Yeah.
Never done that before.
It was so sick.
Mm-hmm.
I'm just, I'm putting this outthere.
Y'all start doing that if youcan.
(22:08):
No phones.
Like, that was fucking epic.
Yeah.
No phones allowed.
No cameras purely being present.
It was, it was so cool.
Um, but yeah, he came out, hehad like a, a tie on and like
socks, like pulled over his,over his, over his pants and
shit.
It was like, I was like, thisguy's doing his own thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It was very cool.
you're here in Austin.
(22:29):
You're playing with Zeds Deadtonight.
Awesome.
So excited to come out and, and,and see you get down.
When did things start to clickfor you on the Yeah, the, just
the, the business side.
You have a manager now.
You have an agent now.
Mm-hmm.
When did all of that startcoming together for you?
Um, yeah, so I got my agents, Ihave two agents, um, and I got
them in the, in July.
(22:50):
Of last year, and that reallyjust came from like the
promotion of the ep, like inlike a span of like two weeks.
I went from like 2000 followersto like 10,000 Instagram
followers.
Wow.
Um, that's a big jump.
It was a very big jump and likeI never went like viral either.
Yeah.
Like I never had a video thatgot like 3 million views or
something.
I was, I got one that got like80,000, the next one get like
(23:11):
maybe 60,000.
The next one get like 120,000.
So it was like semi like viral,but not like viral.
But it felt like it was a reallygood.
Fan base and people who weregenerally into the, to the
style.
Um, and so that's where theagent came.
And then my manager, I've hadsince December, 2021, um, she's
been a friend of mine for quitesome time.
(23:32):
I had like 500 monthly listenersand she DMed me on Instagram and
was like, listen, I work at likethe USC school like, uh,
graduate program for uh, likemusic industry studies.
I want to be a manager.
I will be your manager.
I will do all the things thatyou don't wanna do with being an
artist, and I'll like, do it.
Wow.
For free.
And I was like, you're hired,like let's do it.
(23:54):
So she dmd you and was like, Iwant to, I want to help you.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's very cool.
She reached out one of like thefirst people who like ever
believed in what I was doing.
Jackie.
Right.
Jackie, shout out Jackie.
Shout out Jackie.
Hell yeah.
Um, so, yeah.
And that, that's so cool.
So what, what were you doingthat inspired her to reach out
to you?
(24:14):
I probably had like.
Five or six songs about at thistime.
And I, I think there was like atone point in 2021 where I had
one TikTok get like 10,000views, like something not even
that.
Yeah.
Crazy.
And I think she just like, shewas like, I found you from this.
And I just, I love every songthat Yeah.
And I had like six or five songsat that point.
Yeah.
Um, and, and that's a cool, youknow, I think when it comes to
(24:36):
the.
Artist manager relationship.
There's so many different waysthat it can look.
I think it's cool that like youwere both coming up together.
It's like she wasn't, everyonewants to get like the huge
manager.
Everyone wants to work with MoEasy.
Yeah.
Like, okay, cool.
But to find someone else that'slike, Hey, I'm.
I'm trying to build my career.
You're trying to build yours?
Yeah.
Let's, let's do it together.
It was like, let's work on thistogether.
So like, as she was learningthings about being a manager, I
(24:57):
was learning things about beingan artist.
So it just, it just workedreally well.
So Cool.
And she's part of, um, two plustwo management, so, which I now
just like, just signed for, sonow I'm like officially a part
of her, the management companyshe works for.
Hell yeah.
She was kind of having me aslike her side project for like
three years since then.
Yeah.
Yep.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
Um, and so this EP though, youguys dropped this EP and that
(25:18):
was a big moment.
You said you basically five Xedyour following.
Yeah.
Doing that.
What was that with a, a labelthat was independent.
That was, you did that totallyindependently.
Yeah, I did that.
So what, what, how was that sosuccessful?
Like you just came to, I wasjust posting every single day.
I was doing the red suit, thedance music needed a villain and
it just like.
People were listening.
And then I feel like Spotifystarted noticing me.
(25:40):
I like the first time I got onlike a Spotify playlist, I got a
cover on the Spotify playlist inlike January of 2024.
Um, for my house record, theauction sick.
So I was like, okay, this iscool.
'cause now Spotify knows who,who I am.
Yeah.
So like, even though I wasindependently.
Promoting this project.
I was still getting a couplesongs in, like the Bass arcade
playlist or like the Chad Mojitoplaylist.
(26:00):
I was like, wow, we don't have alabel and we're on these big
Spotify playlists.
So like, that's a good sign.
How are you getting on theSpotify playlist?
That's everyone's question islike, it seems like such a crazy
castle to breach.
I feel like everyone alwayswants to know how to get on
those editorial playlists, andI, I, I feel like I'm not the
one to like explicitly tell youlike there's only one way Yeah.
To do it because I don't.
(26:21):
Really know how it happened.
I mean, yeah, it's so elusive.
I mean, like my managercertainly did an amazing job
pitching it to distributors.
Like she knew like how toexplain my brand and have the
music, you know, kind of explainthe brand, explain the song.
So she obviously did great onpitching everything.
Um.
Yeah.
I mean, there's no real oneanswer, but I also wanna say
(26:41):
like, you know, once you do geton the editorials, it's not like
you've made it.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, that's what I thought whenI made got my first play.
I was like, oh my God, I'm gonnabe famous tomorrow.
Yeah.
Like I made it like, it's greatbecause now Spotify's know you
and you'll get like a, some sortof like passive streaming from
like editorials.
But that doesn't exclusivelymean those listeners from that
playlist are your fans.
(27:02):
You know, a lot of it's passivelistening.
That's true.
So it's a great stepping stone,but I I, it's not the most
important thing when it comes toreleasing music, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Good point.
I remember you saying on thisother podcast that I had
listened to from you, and thiswas I think maybe three years
ago or something that you did itprobably, uh, and you were, you
were saying, you're like, yeah,I.
You basically said you wereexcited to someday get a million
(27:23):
streams.
He was asking you like, what's,what's one of your goals?
You know, I don't wanna get amillion streams on, on one of my
records.
And you've done that now?
I did, yeah.
How does that feel?
I did it twice actually.
I did it on, on that houserecord, and then the, like me,
uh, hit a million.
Um, yeah, that was, that wasreally cool.
Um, how long did the excitementaround that last, um.
(27:46):
Like a couple days, honestly.
Okay.
Well, what really made it coolwas, um, I put this on my story
one day, the day after.
Um, I hit a million streams onthat song in my, like last
quarter of grad school after Ilike called it a quits.
I wrote down on one of theclasses, the professor said,
write down where you seeyourself in three years.
Like, like one year, two year,and three year.
(28:07):
What are you gonna be doing?
Mm-hmm.
And everyone obviously in theclass was like, I'm gonna be the
therapist by this point.
I have my private practice, I'llhave this.
And I wrote.
First a million streams, um,then tour.
Then play a festival.
Those, I'm gonna do those likeyear one, year two, year three,
and like after the, and I did itall in a different order.
(28:27):
Yeah.
Like I played my, the festival,I, it was the first thing I did.
I played hijinx in December andthe Zeds dead tour was the
second thing I did.
And the million streams was likethe last thing I did.
So I had it, but it was in areversal order.
But I, I did everything that Iwrote in that class that I wanna
do in three years.
And I did it in like a year anda half as well.
You knew, you knew what youwanted.
I knew what I wanted even inthat class, and I, I knew I was
(28:48):
like writing shit that wasdifferent than everyone, but
that was what I really wanted.
So once I, once that song camein, I was like, wow, I actually
just did every goal that I setfor that point.
Yeah.
Are you a big goal setter?
Do you like.
Do vision boards and write goalsdown, and I'm stuff, I'm really
not.
And I was even like, the factthat I wrote those goals and
then like, I found that piece ofpaper that I wrote, like
(29:09):
cleaning my closet.
I was like, oh my God.
Like I'm gonna keep this andlike, frame it actually.
Um, but I, I, once I hit amillion, my girlfriend was like,
all right, well now you need to.
Set some new ones.
I was like, you're right, I needto set.
Yeah.
Fucking new.
What's year and then like nextthree years.
So what are the next goals?
I'm still trying to figure outwhat, what those goals are.
Honestly.
I mean, I would say a headlinetour is, headline Tour is the
number one goal of mine rightnow for sure.
(29:30):
Which I'm planning for nextyear.
Yeah, early next year.
Yeah.
Is the plan right now.
Yeah.
Um, that would be really cool.
Okay.
Um, but the other two I haven'treally thought of yet, so Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
It's like, because it's, youknow, there's.
Streams, tours, shows.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
What else though?
Yeah, you were saying, you weresaying earlier that you, um,
(29:53):
you, you're interested in likefilm, film music too?
Yeah.
Once I, I, I say that like onceI've accomplished everything I
want with dance music, which isprobably like.
Headlining some festivals and,you know, getting a couple, I, I
want to make a hit record, likea billboard charting.
I just don't know if that's likereally me or like something that
(30:13):
you kind of like actively do.
But the point is like, once I doeverything I want with, uh,
dance music, I wanna move tofilm music.
'cause like film is also a biglove of mine.
Um, like film scoring that waslike, well, I took a class.
My favorite class ever incollege was.
Intro to film scoring, and Ijust showed up every day, like
super excited, like gen,genuinely excited for that
class.
So I really wanna get into that.
(30:35):
You see yourself, uh, you saidyou started making like hip hop
beats originally.
Mm-hmm.
You see yourself doing, like,producing for other artists or?
I would love to make hip hopbeats for people.
It's like hard because like, Ifeel like rappers, like when you
see, when they see like an EDMartist, like send you beats,
they're like, oh, EDMI don'twant to, you know, mess with
that.
But, um, I don't know.
I, that's definitely somethinglike.
(30:56):
Something I wanna do.
'cause I make, there's dayswhere I'm just like, okay, I
don't wanna make a bass songtoday.
Like I've done it the last fivedays when I'm like, get some hip
hop drums and make some hip hop.
So yeah.
So if you could produce for anyhip hop artist, who would that
be?
Like top dream artist to workwith?
Damn.
(31:17):
I like don't even have an answerto that one.
Gimme like three.
Three.
That would be cool to work with.
Tyler, the creator.
Childish Gambino.
If we're doing like dead oralive, I would probably do MF
Doom, just'cause that's also anicon of mine, just to have him
on, on the record.
Well, we just found your nextgoal then.
That's it.
Wait.
Yeah, that's it.
(31:38):
Get a get, get a, get a Trackwith Tyler, the Creator.
Yeah, that's probably a, a trackwith Childish Gambino.
Well, actually I'm a subChildish Gambino and do Jack
Harlow because he's fromLouisville, Kentucky and that's
where I'm from.
There we go.
That'd be really cool, Jack, ifyou're watching.
Let's make this shit happen.
You got your boy right here.
That'd be so cool.
Yo, put it down.
Yeah.
I'm gonna write it down.
(31:58):
Let's go.
We're gonna, we're going to comeback.
We're gonna clip this podcast inlike two years.
Yeah.
And be like, Hey, this is themoment it was manifested.
Hell yeah.
On this podcast.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Um, yeah, I'm curious to hearmore, you know, coming from.
Working in the, kinda like thetherapy space, you know?
Sure.
The counseling space.
(32:18):
Um, do you have any practicesthat you do to keep your mind
right in, in this fun, wild, andawesome journey of being an
artist?
Yeah.
Um, I guess for like, when itcomes to like that, I would, I
would say like writer's block issomething I think all artists
kind of deal with.
Mm-hmm.
Where like, you.
(32:39):
Dude, it's like when you're aproducer, it's like some days
you're just like, oh, I'm him.
I'm one of the greats.
And the other days like, I'mactually so bad.
Like I'm so bad.
'cause I, you just make three,you make three songs and they're
all terrible.
Like those days happen all thetime.
And that's when you get in thewriter's box'cause you feel like
you can't write anything.
Mm-hmm.
And for me it helps, uh.
Like for me to just like focuson my other hobbies.
So like, I love watching filmand just like, even like, not
(33:00):
even like watching film, butlike kind of analyzing it from
like a, like a director's pointof view and just like the film
scoring, like I really lovewatching film and then like,
getting outside as much as youcan.
I've been running a lot like 20,25.
I've been like at least two tothree times a week.
I'm trying to run as much as Ican.
Um, just getting outside and notthinking about.
Just the production for like acouple hours.
(33:21):
Just like kind of forget, I liketo like forget that song that I
wrote that day, so when I comeback the next day and remember,
oh, I did that.
Wait, let me change my base.
That sounds way better.
Yeah, it would just kinda likeSpark and remember Yeah.
How it should be.
Yeah.
Walk away from it a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you usually have multipleprojects that you're working on
at the same time?
Yeah, especially right now.
Yeah.
There's some weeks where thereyou have so much and others
(33:43):
where.
There's not, um, like right nowfinishing up this EP is a, I
mean, like, it's like beenfinished.
I'm just like suddenly liketweaking things here and there,
but I'm in like big collab modein 2025.
Yeah.
Um, so.
Yeah, I'm working with a bunchof different artists right now
and just like, like all of myreleases so far have been
(34:04):
collabs, which is something Ididn't do at all last year.
Maybe like one or two, but allof them collabs, I got a collab
with, uh, I, I think I'm allowedto say this, lose the child sick
coming up.
Um, hopefully I, I probablycan't say when, but I do have a
collab lucid out, and that'slike something that's Yeah.
Is really big for me as a artistthat like really.
Uh, grew up and took notes oftheir music growing up when I,
(34:27):
or when I was like starting KilaWickett, I was really studying
their music was such a big fan.
Yeah.
So just like be able to have asong with them is something
super cool.
That's super cool.
Um, so yeah.
Yeah.
So who, uh, back to that, thatsame question, I guess on the
collaboration side as like a,with the brand and your
electronic stuff, like who wouldbe like a awesome dream collab
that you'd.
Love to work with.
(34:48):
I mean, Skrillex for sure.
Yeah.
That's, that's, that's the God,yeah.
That's the one who was chosen.
It's like, Sonny, if you'rewatching Next collapse right
here, bro.
Watching.
Yeah.
We're we're we're manifestingit.
Yeah.
We're, we're just planting seedsis the manifest This be the
manifestation episode.
We're just gonna circle back toit.
Yeah.
It's just the moment.
It's just, the thing about himis that he.
Anytime he drops, especially aproject, he changes the game.
(35:11):
He shakes it up entirely.
Yeah.
And I just love artists who doesthat.
Um, and obviously Flu was likemy first dance music artist, but
I was like, you are my favoriteever.
So like I have those two as likemy holy grail of my favorites
ever.
So like those are the two that Iwould want to for sure.
Let's go goals.
Yes.
Put it on the goals list.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's cool, man.
(35:31):
I wanna go back to your, yourpassion for film.
Sure.
Who are some.
Directors and like what stylesof, and when you're like
analyzing films and movies.
Yeah.
What's your, what's your lane?
Who are you into?
It's funny, when I sayanalyzing, it's like I love
watching movies that I've likeseen so many times either that I
grew up on or just like watch,because now I like, since I know
(35:53):
how the story goes, I'm likelooking at it from a different
plot.
I'm like, wait, that cameraangle is sick.
Or like, yeah, wait.
I like how they cut it likethat.
So like I love watching it likethat, but I'm the biggest
Tarantino fan.
That's my number one.
Favorite director.
Like, it's hard for me to evenpick a favorite movies'cause all
of them are like, so yeah, theychange every month for me.
Um, he's a big one.
Um, Wes Anderson, justcinematography alone.
(36:14):
I think he's the best.
I mean, like, I honestly tooknotes from him for my content
videos because his whole thingare symmetrical shots.
Yeah.
Like every shot of his is likethe most sym symmetrically
beautiful shot.
And like, that's why it's alwayslike my content venues are
always like symmetrical.
You're gonna have my studio,you're gonna have the artwork in
the back.
I'm always in the middle of theframe like that.
That's really important to me.
Yeah.
Nowhere near the scale of whathe's doing, but I just like the
(36:37):
idea of like, symmetrical shots.
Yeah.
Makes sense to me.
So I really like that.
So like Tarantino, Wes Andersonare really cool.
I really like the SafieBrothers.
I don't know if you're, theydid, uh, uncut Gems that Adam
Samuel movie, but they, themovie they did before, that was
good time and I fucking lovethat movie.
Yeah.
It's like this like RobertPaton's greatest role ever.
That good.
Check out.
Good time.
That was good.
I didn't, I didn't love UncutGems though.
(36:57):
I was a little like, I reallyliked that movie.
A lot of people like.
If you, if you like the Safiestyle, which I do, you're into
it.
But like I, yeah, it's a style.
Yeah.
It's like they do stuff reallywell.
Yeah.
And then like on the filmscoring side, there's like the
goats that's like Han Zimmer,John Williams.
Yeah.
And then like, uh, Trent Resneris really cool.
Ludwig Gosen is like probablythe greatest right now.
(37:18):
Oh yeah, he did, uh,Oppenheimer, he did the score
for that.
I think he just did the sinners.
He's done a lot of score.
He's like the new, he's the man.
He's the new like John Williams.
That guy's crazy.
And he did the Awaken My LoveChild Gambino album.
He was one of the head producerson that, so he's awesome.
It like the mo it's like themodern, you know, like he's
bringing in like electronicstuff.
Yeah.
You know, it's not just like theclassical symphonic Yeah.
Cinematic stuff.
(37:39):
He cutting.
He's insane.
Cutting edge.
He's so good.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Um, I love though that you havethis passion for film and that
you're making the connection tolike, pulling that inspiration
into the brand, you know, andinto the marketing.
'cause it is like my, my kind offramework for, you know, what it
takes to be successful as anartist is first and foremost it
is the mindset.
Yeah.
(37:59):
Having the courage to fucking gofor it.
Yeah.
Having the courage to walk outtathat job that you don't love.
Yeah.
But then you really gotta makegood music.
Yeah.
Right.
That's kind of the product.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Um, but then you gotta have agood brand and you gotta be good
at marketing too.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And so, you know.
Seeing how, like you have beenable to hit all of those, um,
you know, with a character.
Mm-hmm.
(38:19):
Right.
Okay, cool.
I've got, I've got a character,I've got a vibe, I've got this,
uh, this style mm-hmm.
That's gonna pop out, you know,the, the, the villain of dance
music.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That it, it's like, not only doI have the sound, but.
You know, like, uh, my, myfriend Chris runs a branding
agency, marketing agency calledThe Cult Creatives.
Cool.
And he always says that themusic is the soundtrack to the
(38:40):
movie.
You know, a lot of producerswere just focused on the music.
Mm-hmm.
What's the movie that you'recreating though?
Mm.
You're creating the movie I, theKey To The Wicked.
That's cool.
And you've got the character,you've got the style.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then the marketingthough too, you said like, you
know, back to your, your ep likeyou were just posting every day.
Mm-hmm.
Like how, like that I think Idraw that back to the mindset
too of like, Hey, are you.
Willing to put yourself outthere every day.
(39:01):
Yeah.
Right.
Which a lot of people kind ofhave a block and resistance
around.
Most people are just like,they're, they're really scared
at the end of the day of puttingtheir, they're scared of like
their peers judging them orstrangers judging them, but
like.
If it really doesn't matter,like you just gotta, you just
gotta have a thick skin aboutit, and you have to also know
that they don't really get it,you know?
(39:22):
Yeah.
No one gets it until you like,kind of make it, and then, and
then suddenly everyone gets it,you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Like there's certainly people,sorry, there's certainly people
from like either high school orcollege that definitely when I
started this.
Didn't, you know, they thoughtit was stupid or just like, it
wasn't, like it wasn't gonnawork.
And it's just like, yeah, Idon't really care.
(39:42):
I'm just gonna keep doing itbecause like, I think it's gonna
work.
So, yeah.
And I think nine times outta 10,we think people care, but
really, nine times outta 10,nobody actually fucking cares.
They don't, nobody gives a shitabout what you're doing.
Yeah.
Really.
Yeah.
You know, like very few peopleactually care.
And especially when it comes toputting yourself out there, it's
like, you know.
(40:03):
People are looking at a hundredpieces of content every day.
Yeah.
They're not gonna like latchonto that one thing that you put
out.
And like, nobody's, nobody's, Ihate to say it, it's like nobody
cares and nobody's payingattention.
Yeah.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Until you really start to yeahknow, like put some real shit
out that does start to movethings.
But um, yeah.
In the beginning, I dunno, it's.
(40:24):
Most people are not payingattention to what we're doing.
Yeah.
No one, no one really cares,honestly.
So just like do it, you know?
Yeah.
It's like you never know who'swatching at the end of the day.
Like,'cause when you start out,you're, you're, you're
definitely gonna have like thosevideos, like if you're posting
every day, they're like gettingmade only like 500 views or
something.
Or like maybe.
Couple thousand, you're like,okay, no one really cares.
But it's like, do you reallyknow?
(40:44):
You really never know who'swatching.
Like you, you don't know howmany label ars are just kind of
like looking for that nextthing.
Yeah.
Like they're one of those 500like viewers.
Like you, you really never know.
Totally.
Totally.
And it's, it's funny too becausea lot of times people, you know,
some people are watching, butpeople are, aren't saying
anything.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so it's like maybeyou're not getting the comments
(41:06):
or the love or the validationthat you're seeking, but.
So many times people are seeingstuff, they're just not saying
anything about it.
They might think it's reallyfucking cool mm-hmm.
But they might not like it.
Yeah.
They might not comment on it.
Mm-hmm.
But like, they still actuallythink it's cool.
Yeah.
You never know who you're,you're impacting and who is, um,
like I said, who's watching?
Right.
You know, I actually just, uh,decided to start doing,'cause I
(41:27):
was noticing some resistance toposting with myself.
Like I'll just get kind of lazyand I'll just post podcast
clips.
Right.
But not make, um, my owncontent.
Yeah.
Just like, kind of speak to thecamera and so many different
types of content I could bemaking.
So I was like, you know what?
Fuck it.
I'm gonna do like a 30 daychallenge with myself.
Right.
And just like, I'm gonna justpost every day for 30 days.
Stay accountable.
Yeah.
Just, just to flex the muscle.
(41:47):
Mm-hmm.
Just to flex the.
The, I don't give a fuck muscleand just get reps in, you know,
and maybe I'll figure out somestrategies along the way that
work, but it's like whatever theinner resistance is that might
feel like, uh, yeah, are peoplegonna judge me or caring too
much about like, you know, whatit is that I'm putting out.
So, it was funny'cause likeliterally the very first, I just
flipped on my camera instead of.
(42:08):
Thinking so hard about what I'mgonna post.
I've flipped on my camerarecorded like a two, like a, you
know, took two minutes to justrecord some shit talking to the
camera and then, and then threwit out.
And then it was like, yeah, Ihad like laid back.
Luke commented on it like alittle bit later.
I was just like, it, it kind ofblew my mind.
I was just like, the, which issomeone I, I love and respect
and really, you know, reallylook up to.
I was like, wow, that was socool that like, I.
(42:30):
Took 30 seconds to post someshit that like, took me no
energy or effort.
And, um, yeah, like you said,you never know who's watching.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I was like, oh, thatwas, that was kind of like a
cool little like universe nudge.
Yeah.
You just, just put shit out.
Just post it, man.
Yeah.
Just do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what are you most excitedabout?
What are you looking forward to?
(42:50):
I am really excited for this,uh, next EP that I've been
working on.
Um, yeah, just really beenworking hard on that.
And then this basically nextmonth is just like all, it's
like festival season.
So like every weekend I'm likedoing back to back festivals, so
I'm super excited for that, justto see all these new cities and
have my friends come aboard and,you know.
(43:11):
Come and do like, just, just tosee me I think will be really
great.
Um, even this, this Atlanta,this breakaway Atlanta that I'm
playing, um, one of my best, mybest friend from college, he was
like, when I was, when I firststarted Quila Wicked, he was
like making my cover arts andlike shooting me.
We would always talk about howlike, you know, one day I'm
gonna do this DJ thing andyou're, you're gonna come with
me as like my videographer.
(43:32):
'cause he always wanted to gointo concert photography.
So I'm coming to Atlanta wherehe lives and I'm like, alright,
you're gonna be my media forthis.
Let's go.
So he and he is taking it superseriously.
And I have my, another kid fromschool who's gonna be my tour
manager for that show, and he isgonna do another one that I'm
doing in, in Canada.
And he always really wanted towork in the music industry.
I was always like, all right,you're gonna, so like all these
people who.
Kind of believed in me when Ifirst started and also had that
(43:55):
love for like, whether it's likemedia or just music in general
or just like creating something.
Just being a part of it.
I'm just like, all right, you'recoming with me now, like we're
gonna do this together.
So dude, I love that.
Bring Bringing the homies withyou.
Yeah, it's like entourage.
Literally it's my entourage.
And like the people who like sawthe vision from the beginning
are now getting to be a.
Part of it.
That's so sick, man.
I think it's so important toenjoy the journey.
(44:16):
Yeah.
By the way, it's so easy to getcaught up and like, okay, what's
the, the next level to get to?
And like, I gotta grind andhustle.
And it's like, wait.
I was like, it's happening.
It's happening right now.
I swear week in and week out.
My main anxiety is like, am Istill relevant?
Like, are people like forgettingabout me?
Like, all right, I gotta dothis, but I'm, it's like last,
I'm like, wow, this is.
Great.
I'm like doing all thesefestivals like this is gonna be
awesome.
So it's like I definitely gottatake time to appreciate, you
(44:37):
know, yeah.
How I feel.
And I am very grateful forwhat's coming.
So yeah, it's been good.
Mm-hmm.
But you notice those thoughtscome up though, of the, am i, am
I still relevant?
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Am I doing okay?
Are people forgetting about me?
Because like, especially itfeels like, it feels hard to
kind of like stay relevant now.
Like I, you always gotta beposting all the time.
'cause people's attention spansare.
(44:58):
You always are trying to get onthat spot on the festival.
Like I'm trying to get the, myslot like later in the night
now.
Yeah.
You know, like I'm trying to, solike how do I do that?
Yeah.
So like trying to like not onlybe relevant, but be the most
relevant person.
Yeah.
And it can be a lot to process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and here's the truth.
It doesn't end.
Yeah.
Because you get to that nextspot.
Yeah.
And then there's the next spotabove.
Okay.
How do I headline though?
(45:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, you know, that's somethingI, I really coach on a lot is
it's what I call like the insideout game.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Where most people were playingthe outside in game is like,
well, once I get to that nextspot, then I can.
You know, be enough.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Then I can feel that sense ofpeace.
Right.
'cause I, and until then I'mhaving this anxiety of like, am
(45:39):
I relevant?
Right?
And, and so we're, we'restriving and hoping that, well,
once I get the next time slot,once I get the, you know, the
more money or whatever, thenI'll be happier.
Like, exactly.
There's a feeling that we'rechasing.
Right.
And, and the whole idea of likethe inside out game is like, yo,
we, we gotta, we gotta feel thatnow.
Mm-hmm.
And come from that place like,yo, I'm already, I'm already
there.
I'm already him.
(46:00):
I'm already, you know, thatmakes me think about like,
people like Zed, who is by theway, like probably the most
famous person I know we've like,talked a little bit on, on
Instagram, but like he's, had hejust headline Coachella, like, I
mean he headlines everyfestival.
Yeah.
Like how many times he's been onthe billboard, like top 100.
It's just like, what?
Like how, what, what more can hedo?
Like, I don't like what is hismindset through stuff like that?
Like it's so insane to thinkabout stuff like that.
(46:22):
Yeah.
There's a, there's a good clipfloating around of Will Smith
talking about like the two.
Places of like the biggestdepression, which is like when
you're at rock bottom.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, you just have,there, you're, you're at that
pit of, you know of it, but alsowhen you're at the top,'cause
then you have everything.
(46:42):
Mm-hmm.
And you're like, damn, I'mstill.
Not actually still empty.
Empty.
Yeah.
I just still don't actually havethe thing I've been chasing this
whole time.
Yeah.
And there's like a hugedepression that can come from
that as well.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, back to I thinkjust like the, the inner game
man of how do we, how do weenjoy the process?
Yeah.
You know, where this was comingfrom.
I think it's so cool to seelike, you're bringing the homies
with you.
Mm-hmm.
(47:02):
It's like, yeah.
Like.
It all gets to be fun now atthis stage.
Yeah.
You know, I remember I, I usedto work with, um, uh, David
GTA's manager.
Cool.
And, um, I had just signed myfirst like baby acts, you know,
that I was developing as amanager.
And she was.
Working with David gta, who wasthe number one or number two, DJ
(47:23):
Mag, you know, DJ that year.
He's still like number three.
Most listened to artist onSpotify.
He's, I, I hate, I hate how muchhate he gives, by the way.
I will just say he's actuallyone of the most like, authentic
artists.
He is fucking, like, he justloves making music with cool
people.
That's his whole thing.
And he gets so much hate.
But I remember her telling me,she's like, wow, I really wish.
She's like, I actually missbeing where you are right now.
Mm-hmm.
On like the come up.
(47:44):
Because she's like, the game nowis like, how do we, how do we
stay?
Yeah.
How do you stay on top?
Yeah.
She's like, the game isdifferent.
She's like, it's like that, thatgame of coming up.
She's like, that's like, that'sthe fun.
That's the adventure.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
I think we get to just get tomake sure we really fucking
enjoy it.
Yeah.
This, this is definitely thecoming up in the game.
It's definitely the fun partright now.
For sure.
Yeah.
And.
I was excited, man.
(48:05):
Well, you are definitely comingup.
I'm so excited to see what thisnext year holds for you.
I'm so excited to see you throwdown tonight with Z's dead.
It's gonna be fun.
Our course project, it's gonnabe, it's gonna be a lot of fun.
So yeah, man.
Thanks so much for comingthrough to take the time and,
and share all this great stuffwith everyone, dude.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
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