Beyond Bipolar: Shakeyla Ingram’s Journey of Healing, Forgiveness, and Resilience in Public Office

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skippy Mesirow (00:03):
Hello. My name is Skippy Mesirow. Coach, former
elected official, and lifetimepublic servant. Welcome to
Healing Our Politics. The showthat shows you, the heart
centered public servant andpolitical leader, how to heal
our politics by starting withthe human in the mirror.
It is my job to sit down orstand up with the best experts

(00:25):
in all areas of humandevelopment, thought leaders,
coaches, therapists, authors,scientists, and more, to take
the best of what they havelearned and translate it
specifically for the publicservice experience. Providing
you actionable, practical,tactical tools that you can test
out today in your life and withyour teams. I will also talk to

(00:47):
leaders across the globe with aself care practice, getting to
know them at a deeply human andpersonal level, so that you can
learn from their challenges andjourney. Warning, this is a post
partisan space. Yes, I have abias.
You have a bias. We all have abias. Everybody gets a bias. And

(01:07):
I will be stripping out all ofthe unconscious cues of bias
from this space. No politics,partisanship or policy here.
Because well-being belongs toall of us. And we will all be
better served if every human inleadership, regardless of party,
ideology, race, or geography,are happier, healthier, and more

(01:30):
connected. This show is aboutresourcing you, the human doing
leadership, and trusting you tomake up your own damn mind about
what to do with it and what'sbest for your community. So as
always, with love, here we go.Welcome to the Healing Our

(01:51):
Politics podcast.
The show that shows you, theheart centered leader, how to
heal our politics by startingwith the human in the mirror.
And in this episode, I have avery, very special human for you
as I sit down with publicservant, Shaquila Ingram.
Shaquila served on city councilin her hometown of Fayetteville,

(02:13):
North Carolina, where shefocused on issues of community
empowerment, small businesssupport and housing, always
bringing her signature positiveenergy, can do spirit to the
table. But the truth is, it wasnot all roses. Shaquille was
diagnosed with bipolar disorderwhile in office and faced
significant challenges as shefound herself embroiled in the

(02:36):
middle of factional communityanger during the COVID 19
epidemic and immersed indysfunctional behavior between
council members and herself.
Since losing her last race, yes,she lost hers too, Shakila has
really gone gangbusters. Shereleased a book, Intentionality

(02:56):
Here. She launched House Host,her consulting firm. She is
hosting a podcast called The Keyto the City. She released
Provisions Boot Camp, anEntrepreneur's Toolkit, and
started a newsletter calledIntentional Impact.
Whoo. That is a lot. And in thisepisode, we dig into the real,

(03:20):
real folks tracing Shaquille'slife from day 1 to now. We talk
about the importance ofgrandparents, family role models
and friends on who we become inlife and leadership, how early
childhood experiences and traumamanifest later in life,
unconscious patterning, what itis, how to understand yours and

(03:42):
how to use that knowledge togrow and expand in your
leadership. We talk about comingout bipolar on council, inter
council conflict.
I guess I'm having some with myvoice, and the impact of public
hate being stuck in the middleof community factions and its
effect on our well-being andperformance as leaders. Shakila

(04:06):
shares some of her greatestlearnings from this journey,
including techniques to identifyand work with triggers,
practices to exhume yourselffrom depression, creating goal
friends and journey agreements,the distinction between trauma
and healing as she understandsit, what intentionality is and
how to use it for your success,and so much more. With a warm

(04:30):
heart and a deep sense ofconnection, I share this
meaningful, connective and realconversation with Shaquille
Ingram. Shakila, it's truly suchan honor to be here with you
this morning on the Healing OurPolitics podcast, the show that

(04:53):
shows you, the heart centeredleader, how to heal our politics
by starting with the human inthe mirror, something that you
know and do intimately.

Shakeyla Ingram (05:04):
Thank you so much for allowing me to be here.
And what's so interesting atgetting Terry, I already the
heart centered leader. And wasso about a month and a half ago,
I had a friend stop being thefriend to me. And they said that
I was childish in my leadershipwhen I was in council because I

(05:29):
live with my heart. And so foryou to say the heart centered
leader because in my mind, I waslike, there's gotta be space for
the heart.
In politics, there has to bespace for it. If not, you lose
sight of what's important. Thankyou for that.

And you lose the ability to come together with
others, which is the only way weever truly accomplish anything
meaningful that sticks. So ifthere's someone watching this
video right now, I'm making someassumptions. So feel free to
throughout this, feel free tocorrect my assumptions, correct
the record, educate me, whateveris necessary. Cisgendered male

(06:19):
from a large, cisgendered malefrom a large northern city who
lives in a mountain town and goskiing. And you are a beautiful
African American woman fromNorth Carolina.
And there may be assumptionsthat we don't share much, but
what I loved about getting readyfor this episode is how much we

(06:43):
actually have in common in ourexperiences, in our work, in
what we care about. And Ithought it would be fun to start
with your journey. And yourgrandparents are really critical
part of your journey. They're ahuge part of my journey. And we
both have an Arthur in ourgrandparent tree.

(07:04):
And I thought we could maybejust start yeah. My grandfather
who's really my role model, theone person in my family who just
continues to posthumouslyinspire me every day, who I wear
in ink on my body. I thoughtwe'd start with some
grandparents. Can you tell us alittle bit about yours and your
relationship?

Absolutely. So I grew up in my grandparents'
barbershop, and that taught methe SSF community. Everybody
goes to the barbershop.Everybody goes to a barbershop.
The judges that are judgestoday, they were starting out as
attorneys, like, reading booksto me and my playpen at the

(07:46):
barbershop.
And I can say, right and sowhat's funny is my grandparents
were night and day, so fardifferent from each other. And
and so my my grandfather, hisclientele base were, like, the
the police chiefs, the judges,and the mayors. And my
grandmother, her clientele was,like, the street guys and the

(08:09):
ones that are, you know, whatmost would say running from the
police or whatever. And when youhave those 2 as grandparents and
the personality that they have,my grandfather was very quiet,
very to himself. He didn't saymuch, but when he spoke, he
spoke.
Right?

When granddaddy spoke, granddaddy spoke.

Yeah. And so if it was Shaquille cut the front
yard, Kiki cut the backyard,that was it. My grandmother,
Gloria, she was this smalllittle thing and just feisty,
fierce, bold. We'll cuss you outin a second and we'll still do

(08:53):
for you and will still do foryou. She gave a lot of jobs to a
lot of guys who were, like,just, you know, getting out of
prison and whatnot.
And so my well, my grandfatherdidn't really like that. She
believed in the second chancefor people. I know that there
were some homeless individualsthat, you know, how they get

(09:13):
SSI, Social Security income. Shewould help them monitor their
spending because if somebodyknows you're getting checked,
you can easily get jumped. Andso she will help them monitor
it.
You got your toiletries for theweek. You got this, but don't
get on her bad side.

So there's a so different slightly different
universe, but very similartheme. So my grandfather grew up
in Southern Illinois, ruraltown, only Jewish family. One of
many brothers as was the caseback then, only one that comes
up north to Chicago, to the bigcity, wants to be a doctor,

(09:57):
which was something I mean,like, when you think about the
history of racism, antisemitismhad to legally change his name
so that when they viewed theapplication, they didn't turn it
down for a Jewish name.Something we wouldn't think of
today, but still happens to alot of people with traditionally
black names today. And he getsto go to med school because my

(10:19):
grandmother works theswitchboards and pays for him to
go.
But then once he has thatposition and he's able to start
making some money, she goes backto school and gets a graduate
degree in economics, and shehandles all the finances. Right?
And it's just what I'm hearingis sort of a similar thing where
Arthur had to, because he wasmale at the time, start the

(10:41):
business, but then grandma'scoming in. Gloria's coming in
with the fire to really make itwork.

And so it was and then the going joke in the
community was, she's a betterbarber than him, which which
actually was kinda true. Youknow? You know, she and she was
the teaching barber in thebarbershop. So she would take in
women barbers, and, I mean, shewould even move them into the
house. And I'd be like, why arethey here?

(11:10):
And she like, no. I'm helpingthem. They need to learn, and
they don't have any wells to go,and they're gonna be barbers.
They're gonna go out and dogreat things. And so that pair
truly helped me understand theessence of community.

What was the meaning that you made in your
own life from watching her giveand serve others in that way?
What was your takeaway withouthaving to be right or wrong?
What did you make that mean foryou?

Give love no matter what. Give love, give
care no matter what.Understanding that not everyone
always has what I may have. AndI may not have what they have.
You know, it can easily switch.
And understanding, being able tolisten, but most importantly,

(12:05):
give love.

Yeah. Now I'm curious. This is certainly the
case for me. It's not the casefor everyone, but it does tend
to be the case that when youngchildren have very strong bonds
with grandparents, that comespaired with less strong bonds
with parents. And I wonder whatyour relationship was like with
your parents, and I'm happy toshare my experience too.

Yeah. So very close with my mom in a sense of
a friendship and still like mom.My dad, that one's a little
interesting. It's a littleinteresting. It it was it's more
obligation.
And he's very present in mylife, very present in my life,

(12:51):
but more in the obligation way.And so it's like a box checker.
But now I'm learning to like, Ihad to go through some healing.
I had to, like, okay, say, if Iwant this relationship to be
this with my dad, then I need toinsert the effort. So I'll call
and say, hey.
You wanna go for a walk with mesomewhere, or do you wanna go

(13:12):
grab something to eat and justtry to spend that time with my
dad?

So I grew up in a a divorced household, very
messy, very long. So I had agood relationship with my dad
growing up, but limited time. Iwould never live with him. And
later in life, he chose todivorce me effectively. So
didn't talk to him for I may begetting this wrong, but I'm
gonna say 7 years, somethinglike that.

(13:40):
And I'm I'm also in that processnow, not being on the other
side, but in a more evolvedplace of understanding of where
he came from and how Icontributed to that. I've been
trying to engage in some of thathealing, and, so I've been
reaching out once a quarter,just opening the door, and he's

(14:05):
not been interested or willingat this point. He's expressed
long term interest, but notimmediate interest, and so I
kinda relate to that. Did wereyour are your parents still
together?

God. No. And I have

oh, no. Tell me tell me about that.

Funny enough. Funny enough. And this is why I
say, god, no. I couldn't stomachit because I'm a I'm a Aries. My
mom is a Sagittarius.
My dad is a Leo. We're all firesigns. We're every single one.

Goes out of my depth.

Yeah. We're we're we're every single one.
So, no. But I think, you know,what happens when people
transition and and family thingshappen. And so there was a lot
that happened once mygrandfather transitioned.
My grandmother transitionedfirst and then my grandfather.
And that I think that was, like,the straw that broke the camel's

(15:02):
back in the terms of theirrelationship.

Would you be willing to share from the little
girl, like, what that felt likeat the time?

Yeah. Confused, at fault, sad, frustrated, very
upset with myself, maybe upsetwith them, my parent. Yeah. I
think that's what I felt.

I'm gonna ask a question that might make no
sense and go nowhere. And if so,that's totally okay. But I
wonder if any instance, anysituation with grown shaquila on
the Lafayette Council where asimilar dynamic is at play. And

(15:50):
just sitting with this andseeing if any memory pops up,
whether it makes sense or not,is there anything that this
reminds you of in your laterlife?

Yeah. I think when I was on the Fayetteville
City Council, I felt mostunprotected as a young black
woman, and I think I felt thatmostly because any and
everything that I wasexperiencing was coming from
Black men on the council. I didnot I did not know how to handle

(16:22):
that. I in my perspective or inmy experience, I didn't have to
deal with that with the men inmy family. Yeah.
And I could say that the theblack women that I served with,
they were there in support,kinda like how my mom was. There

(16:42):
was an instance when we were ina closed session, we were
discussing something, and theywere trying to do something that
was, to me, it just wasn't itjust wasn't ethical. You could
really tell that everybody had arole to play. Everybody knew
what their role was. And I said,you know, from my understanding,

(17:04):
there was a discussion aboutthis already.
And I think what is best is forus to go ahead and make the vote
because you already know youhave the votes. When I tell you
chaos ensued, all the black men,once stood like raised himself

(17:27):
up, forced himself up from thedais. I'm sick of her always
talking about there's a me Imean, yelling. I'm sick of her
always talking about there's ameeting before the meeting.
Also, he's walking my direction.
Another at the in the samebreath, another black male

(17:49):
yelling at me over his dais and,like, pointing, you're wrong.
You're wrong. And the only whitelady on the board, she had to
stand up, and she had to get infront of him and say, stop. Calm
down. Sit down.
And I was so confused. And thenat you know how you get gaslit

(18:14):
into thinking like you you'rethe one that did something
wrong? I was like, dang, what ifdid that okay. Maybe there was
not a meeting before themeeting. And then it took 2
women to say, y'all owe her anapology because you know that's
what happens.
We have these conversationsbefore a meeting. And the one

(18:35):
that stood up and said, hey, youknow, sit down. She says, you
know what, Shakila? You areright. We did discuss this.
We did have a meeting before themeeting. And now I'm sitting
here about to cry because thatjust happened to me. They didn't

(18:58):
apologize, but they said I waswrong. And what got them to
truly calm down was the onecouncil member that was sitting
between them. She was like, hey.
Stop. Y'all are pastors.

Mhmm.

And they was like, oh, I'm so sorry. We just
get so passionate, but when Iget passionate, it's a problem.

I think this story is so important. It
illustrates something that somany of us, myself previously,
just don't understand, which ischildhood patterns, childhood
lessons, childhood experiencesshow up in leadership unless we

(19:52):
actively do the work tounderstand and process and
release them. That could show upin this instance, and I'm not
making any claims about whathappened. I was not there. But
just from a with a coach's haton, there's a situation in which
grown shaquila, if I can callher that, in that instance,

(20:16):
seeing that experience that sheremembers, even if it's not a
cognitive memory, it's anembodied memory from 5 of this
really big experience in herlife becomes a little shaquila,
whether she knows it or not, andis no longer responding to
what's happening in the room,but is responding to the
experience she had when she was5.
Right? It's a transferenceresponse. Alternatively, and

(20:40):
maybe both and most likely both,the men in the room having
shared some similar experiencegrowing up in a similar
community at a similar time withyour father in a similar
culture, etcetera, areresponding from their trauma,
whatever that is. And they'regetting big and aggressive

(21:00):
because somewhere deep down, thelittle one in themselves is
scared. And when we don'tunderstand that, when we don't
bring it into the light, when wedon't process it, then it
repeats, and it shows up in realways that keep communities from
moving forward.
And it's just that's why it's soimportant that leaders take on

(21:23):
the responsibility to do theirjob best by showing up fully and
addressing that stuff that'shiding in their inside.

That's major. That's major. And I think the
question that I'm always askingis, what will it take? What will
it take? And I can't seem tofind an answer, but everybody
for everyone to realize that weif we're not operating in this

(21:54):
mindset, we're probably we're apart of the problem, and we need
to figure out how we can be thesolution.
But I think even in that, peoplefeel like, oh, if I do this or
if I'm operating in that way ofwhat I experienced, that is the
solution. We gotta make her feelthat she's wrong, and so she's
not just gonna walk in here andtry to reprimand us so that

(22:18):
everybody else that comes behindcan feel can get the same
understanding. Yeah. I don't I

was listening to a a speaker, Indian woman, the
other day speaking to some giantconference of people. And what
she said is when challenging I'mgonna call it challenging energy
comes in towards us. Whensomeone screams at us or
projects at us, whatever thatis, we have 3 options. We can
reflect it, which is we can takeit and throw it right back at

(22:47):
them. Fuck you.
You're wrong. Right? You're theproblem. Mhmm. You're the
problem.
We can absorb it, shut down,take it in. It dies there, but a
little part of us dies with it,or we can transform it. We can
take it in, apply the workourselves, and invite someone

(23:10):
else to do the same through ourexample. And I wonder even if it
wasn't immediate or and probablywasn't immediately in that
meeting or even immediatelyfollowing it, but in the time
that has since passed betweenthen and now, in what way,
knowing you and making anassumption, in what way have you

(23:30):
transformed it?

The relationships.

The experience from that council meeting. How
have you turned that into ateacher in some way that opens
the possibility for others to dothe same?

Encouraging them to show up no matter what.
I I from that instance well, notnecessarily from that instance.
I think a a year had gone by,and it was just like war. It was
war. And I tried to sit downwith them, and I said, hey, this

(24:12):
is what's going on, so on.
Can we? And there was there wassome resolve, but not from
everybody.

Yeah.

And so what I learned was, okay. I'm gonna
have to lead in this mindset.I'm gonna have to and it hurt me
more than anything. And so whatI have been attempting to
express to others that may comefrom me and just to discuss,

(24:41):
like, conflict resolution,because that's essentially what
it was, conflict resolution. Igo back to the foundation of why
you're here in the first place.
And I think the only thing thatI have chosen to talk is that
you must show up in a way thatsuits your leader persona, but

(25:05):
also your inner you. At thattime, I was only showing up in
my leader persona, not thinkingabout the the effects of my my
inner me.

Funny. I had a a similar experience. It's
actually very funny. It's sosimilar in the childhood
patterning that led to theresponse and the outcome and how
I worked it. Different set ofcharacters, but we were working
on a very large affordablehousing project, and there was
an effort to go out to thecommunity to get feedback.

(25:41):
And I was fairly early in mycareer. I was entirely using
your language in my leaderpersona. I didn't really know
anything else yet at the time. Ihadn't learned how to have
enough confidence in my innerdirection to be willing to do
that. I was still scared of whatother would say or how I'd be
perceived or would I do theright thing.

(26:02):
So I was in the leader persona,and the leader persona is a
forcing persona. It's a you willdo this. I will make this
happen. It can be a manipulativepersona, and it's an isolated
persona. And so I went to mysupporters, to the community
members who wanted to see thathousing happened, and we created
a strategy for how people wouldrespond to the survey to receive

(26:25):
the most housing, the mostdensity on the lot.
And I genuinely thought I haddone my job at that point. I'm
in leader persona. Great. I'mdemonstrating the need, and we
go forward. Right?
Look at me. So good at doingthat. I'm the hero of the
journey. And we got to themeeting, and I got screamed at

(26:45):
also by a standing councilwomanwho was in her oh, I hope I
don't get this wrong. I'm gonnasay 60, but a mature, powerful
woman who I have a ton ofrespect for.
And her streaming was that I wasgoing around their backs, that I
was colluding the process, thatI was I was forcing something,

(27:08):
that I was being selfish andself interested. And it
triggered for me all those samefeelings because I had that
angry. And if I'm being totallyhonest, like larger older woman,
like, that was the archetype.Right? That was the visual that
I that cued me from childhood.
And so I totally went into thedefense pattern as well, got

(27:31):
angry, then shut down, Ended upbeing on, like, the 3rd page of
the major state paper withphoto, the whole thing. And I
think it was like councilwomangives councilman tongue lashing
some, you know, ridiculousheadline. And it was hard to
process that in the moment. Ididn't get it, but as I was able

(27:51):
to reflect on that and bring myI don't remember the word you
used, but my internalleadership, my internal locust,
my heart centered leader to it,I could ask the tough questions
of, was any part of what she wassaying right? Is that what

(28:12):
triggered me?
And it took a long time, butfrom that place, I was able to
recognize there was some truthin what she was saying. And it
was really a catalyst for me tomake amends, to ask questions
about how I could leaddifferently from the heart,

(28:34):
where instead of making a planof what I wanted to get done and
then trying to force it, goingout to others and asking, what's
really important to you? And notfawning or, placating, but just
looking for the 5%, 30% ofthings where that totally agreed

(28:54):
with what I wanted to do andwhat I thought was right. And
then being able to focus onthose things, support them,
celebrate them for those things.And people like that.
Right? It feels good, and ittook a lot of time to rebuild
trust. But as a result of manythings, but amongst them, the

(29:15):
learnings that I took from that,not making it about her and
blaming her, but the learningsthat I took, even though I
wasn't the only one whocontributed, far from it, Right.
Which she later came to share aswell and apologize for, which I
appreciated. You know, it endedup that project added a lot of
density, and it was a hugelearning experience for me, but

(29:37):
I think really mirrors whatyou're talking about and the
healing that's possible in thecontainer.
And the recognition that, youknow, public service and
romantic relationships areprobably the 2 things in this
world that apply the mostpressure to whatever your
preexisting trauma patterns arein a wildly public way. And that

(30:00):
is horrifying and scary andfearful, but it is the best
fucking highlighter in the worldfor your shit. It is. It will
show you exactly what you haveto work on if you choose to let
it, and it's really a gift inthat way.

That's very true. That's very true. There's
something that you have I you'vetalked you like, you said trust.
And you Mhmm. So one of thethings that I always found hard
to do was trust in politics.
I would be in a meeting, and wewould all come to a a consensus.

(30:37):
And then we all leave themeeting, and now it's 5 people
trying to plot against what whatwe all said because it seems to
serve, you know, this greatergood. And so how can I trust
you? You know? I had a vote onetime, and it was for my
community, and it was for what Iwas fighting for.

(30:58):
Council members hijacked it,went and had a meeting without
me about what I had beenfighting for, and they came out
with a lesser option of what Ihad been fighting for. And I
didn't go for it. But because Ihad relationships with our state
senators, I was able to get afull build out of what I was

(31:21):
wanting and what not just what Iwas wanting. Let me be clear. It
was what the community waswanting and had been begging for
over 30 years.
And so it just I never couldfind space to trust. And so when
I lost my election, and though Iwas like, you know, of course,

(31:41):
hoping I was win, but at thesame time, I think a part of me
didn't care to to really win. Ithink I was just still hurt that
it was because a friend ranagainst me. But so when I lost,

I

was like, alright. Cool. Because I just my
heart could not take anymoretrying to go against against my
ethics, trying to go againstwhat my heart is saying. And it
just I just didn't think it wasfair to my inner self. It was
cool from my leadership personabecause homegirl likes to throw
down.

(32:17):
You know? But it just wasn'tcool for the inner me.

Yeah. And from reading your book, it sounds
like we share an internalduality of part of our persona
being very I don't wanna sayfight oriented, but challenge
oriented. Mhmm. We like to breaknorms and conventions. We look
for the unconventional.
That's very much part of ourmakeup, standing up to power,

(32:42):
standing up for the littleperson that's hardwired in us,
but there's also a part of usthat really desires to be of
community included, wanted,desired, welcomed, safe. Mhmm.
And those two internal parts canbe intentioned. Does that with
each other. Does that land foryou in any way?

That does. Absolutely.

I don't know if you're familiar with the, like,
the concept of patterns, butthere's, like, patterns and then
there's values. And these arethings that we learn as little
ones. Values are the thing thatguide us that when we're in our
most heart centered, aligned,safe place, psychologically safe
place that really lead us and itmean the most to us. Patterns

(33:26):
are the unconscious behaviorsthat we learned either from
mimicking what parents did or inopposition to them. The actions
themselves don't need to be bador good.
What makes them patterns is thatthey're like an unconscious
response. So it could besomething like perfectionism.
Right? I learned to receive loveor acceptance from my parents. I

(33:46):
have to be perfect.
Could be something like a freezeresponse. Like, when I get
yelled at, I just totally shutdown. That's how I stay safe.
Same. Can you identify, like,both the values that you think
you carried forward from youryouth as well as some of the
patterns that have been hardestfor you to work with?

Giving love when it's not giving back. Not
not being able to or or beingforced to go against what I
believe ethically. And I thinkthat comes from watching or
seeing failed relationships,those back and forth failed

(34:32):
relationships. And and it andit's and it's a pattern that has
played out where, oh, I care. Icare.
And so, for instance, acouncilwoman, she said, why do
you continue to give the mayor achance? And he, every time,
throws you out to dry. And I andjust in my heart, I'm like, I
just believe in second chancesfor people. I just believe he'll

(34:54):
get it right. And never happens.
So I think those are some of theways, some of the values and
patterns, and I can say that Ido I do battle with, like,
bipolar depression. And so beingable to know that I have that

(35:15):
bright spirit and that highenergy, it does make it somewhat
easier for me on my lower daysto just, you know, yeah, I'd
better take, pray about it and,like, get get up get up and
fight. But I think for me, like,love and ethics are just what
I've carried through my life.

I I picked up on something you were saying there
in relationship to your bipolardiagnosis, which I know happened
after you left office as itnormally does for people. It's
it's it's later in life.

That was while I was in office.

Heard you say.

It was while I was

in office. You were in office.

Sorry to interrupt. But, yep, it was
while I was in office.

Did that no. I think that's a good record.
Correct. Did you share that withanyone at the time?

Yeah. I shared it with, like and I guess in
politics, they call you call ityour kitchen cabinets. I shared
it with them, so it was, like, 5people. And then I shared it
with 2 2 of the women on myboard. So they knew.

And was that received?

Yeah. So that's the that's the thing. So my
parents knew. And, oh, where'smy tissue? You know Take as

much time as you need.

It was a positive response. And I
remember one is that sticks wellwith me was, it's okay to know
how your mind and emotions work.

Mhmm.

And I think Yeah. What what happens is when
you get a response like that,you don't realize that, oh,
okay. There's really nothingwrong with me. I just operate
differently. What you hear a lotof times is, oh, you know, this
is bipolar depression, they'recrazy, they're this and whatnot.

(37:10):
And so every single person thatI told that was not a family
member had nothing but a, apositive response. If I would
call them and, you know, ofcourse, like, I'm I'm big on
making somebody your person. IfI would call them and express,
hey. I'm feeling this way, I canguarantee that I'm getting I'm

(37:36):
getting calls throughout the dayor, you know, text.

Mhmm.

Hey. You wanna go out to lunch or something
like that, which was I justdidn't expect that. I didn't. I
I to be honest, I don't knowwhat I expected, but I didn't
expect a positive response.

That's beautiful. I'm happy to hear
that. But for someone who doesthink of bipolar people are
crazy, to use your words, what'sactually true? Like, what does
it actually mean to what is theexperience of being bipolar for
you?

Mhmm. So so what's funny is my psychiatrist
because and I kept saying it. MyI said, oh my god. I'm bipolar.
And I'm bipolar.
She was like, no. You're not.She just she said, you just have
a high and low range of whichyour emotions will operate. And
most times, they are triggeredby certain experiences. And I

(38:36):
said, okay.
And so we laid out myexperiences, and we began to
figure out what those triggerswere. And so, I just get real
sad, you know, sometimes. I justI just get real sad, and I just
don't wanna talk to anybody. Itdoes not mean that, you know,

(38:58):
there's significantly somethingwrong with you. It honestly
truly means is that, like, youremotions are a bit more
sensitive.

What are some of the other techniques that you
proactively have found to workto mediate or mitigate the
depressive side of symptoms?What I heard there is nature
exposed, like being outside. Iheard exercise, physical
activity, and I heard travel.And and you talk about how

(39:32):
you're wrapping it in. What aresome of the other things you
found and being a, highlyscheduled I don't like the word
busy.
Highly scheduled because it's achoice person. How do you ensure
that you're able to do thosethings?

I put everything on my calendar. Time
block. Time block. Also, I Istruggle to get out of the bed
in the mornings, not because,like, that's a, like, a bipolar
depression thing, but because Ilike working from the bed. I can
I have a whole desk situationwhere I will just prop up?

Mhmm.

But, also, it's not healthy for me to do that.
If I get a phone call at thestart of my day, also, I don't I
try not to be on my phone for atleast an hour after I wake up
because I'm probably gonna stickaround in bed for about 30
minutes to 45 minutes after Iwake up. And so if I get a call
that's just gonna trigger me,that means I'm gonna be in bed

(40:35):
for the rest of the day. And Idon't I don't I don't want that.
I like to FaceTime.
I love to FaceTime my friendsand, like, be nosy and see what
they are doing. They don't knowthat that is a way for me to,
like, kinda keep my scenerychanging. Well, they they'll
know when this airs, but theydon't know that that's that's a

(40:58):
way that I'd like Surprise.Right. That I'm like but I love
to

also my service dog. Right.

But they're always like they're all like but
I also love checking up on myfriends. I love to talk to my
friends. I like to see myfriends. Like, if I'm friends
with somebody, like, I likethem. I love them.
I wanna see them. And so that isan that is a way. I'm a nosy
neighbor, and so a lot of mywork is done at home. And so

(41:28):
I'll take my little 15 minutebreaks, and I'll go outside and
be nosy and see what theneighbors are doing. Like, as we
get older, we have to find newthings that bring us joy.
For me, I have to find newthings to to try and, like, keep
me up to speed with beingproactive.

Just at the risk of being redundant because it's
I think it's such great advice.So one, you have a practice of
noticing when a depression iscoming on. 2, you have
environmental cues that you knowmake it more likely that a
depression is coming on. Forinstance, the seasons change,
shorter days. And I will tellyou, I'm in a men's group.

(42:07):
There are 6 of us. None of usthat I'm aware of have this
diagnosis. All of us comeDecember are talking about how
we're feeling down. So this isjust an amplification of a
normal trend. Theseinterventions really work for
anyone.
You don't have to have adiagnosis of any kind to have
these things be effective. Soyou're you're using these tools

(42:28):
for recognition of the pattern,and then the interventions
include being outside more,exercising more. I can't
highlight that one enough. Therewas one thing that I if I had to
drop everything but one thing,exercise 100%, leading
indicator. Travel, so being innew places, which also relates
to novelty seeking, which yousaid trying new things makes

(42:51):
sense.
You're getting the brain out ofits old habits, out of its
ridges, and into new behaviors.Social ability, FaceTiming
friends, seeing the actual face,being curious about their
experience, getting out of yourexperience and into their
experience, and then, limitingelectronics. I do the same
thing. No electronics first hourin the morning. Life changing.

Mhmm.

Truly life changing. So those are 6
significant bullets andintervention points. And to make
those happen within the scope ofa highly scheduled day, calendar
what you care about, folks. Putit in there, and once it's in
there, that's it. It'simmutable.
And you can plan ahead. I wannago back to something you said. I

(43:34):
think this is actuallyfascinating and might be a
process that others can followas well. You talked about
working with, I think, yourpsychiatrist when you were
questioning whether you hadbipolar to identify your
triggers. Can you walk usthrough what that process looked
like at a very tactical specificlevel so that someone else could

(43:55):
identify their own triggers?
And if you're willing to sharewhat you identified just so it
illustrates what's possible forfolks, I think that would be
really helpful because somepeople might not even know Mhmm.
What a trigger is or whatthey're looking for.

Yeah. So for instance, I'll use one because I
I'm I think I'm experiencingthis right now, which is
endings. I don't do well withendings. So after my grandfather
passed away, I went through areally bad depression. When I
lost a friend some years ago, Iwent through a really bad
depression.
And so now, like, 2 days ago, Iwas, like, really sad and crying

(44:30):
because I was like, I think I'mlosing a friend. And, so what we
did is we started with thingsthat I already know about me.
I'm not good with endings. Ihate endings. So we started with
that, and she's just said,alright.
Let's go to childhood. Talk tome about it. What are some

(44:51):
instances where you felt thisand then it made you feel this
way? And we started walkingthrough that. And then, I think
another piece for me is, like,not feeling adequate or loved or
wanted.
That's always that's a triggerfor me. But I've I've been able
to work through that. I think alot of that has to do with self

(45:13):
care, self love, selfconfidence, and truly needing to
love yourself first.

As you're going through the process of
identifying triggers, from myexperience, 2 things 2 things
can happen, and I'm curious howyou dealt with these in the
sessions. The first is, let'scall them false positives. So
there was something that waschallenging that you have a
memory of, but it's just anormal response to a challenging
condition that didn't leave apattern or a trigger. How did

(45:42):
you when you arrived at andnamed and gave voice to
something that happened, how didyou identify if this is truly a
trigger versus just a normalresponse that didn't stick with
you into adulthood?

When I no longer had a emotional response
to it.

What was the practice of sitting with the
thing that you pulled up then?

Meditation. Meditation and journaling. There
was a time in my life when Ilived in Georgia. I was very
isolated from Fayetteville,North Carolina. Very isolated.
And so I could pick and choosewhat I was able to care about.

(46:23):
And so that could have been myfamily. That could have you
know, I was only concerned aboutwhat was, like, in my immediate
circle, which was in Georgia.And I did not allow it to cause
me any type of emotional stressbecause that is, like, the base
of, you know, bipolar depressionbeing triggered emotionally. You

(46:46):
know?
And so I think for me, that wasit.

Yeah. So as these things come up, you name
them.

Mhmm.

You're then sitting with them in your own
mind in silence. You're maybeprocessing on the page what
happened. And following thatpractice, if a charge remains
strong, you're labeling that asa trigger. And if it dissipates,
then you're recognizing, okay.That was just a a challenging
experience, and that's sort ofhow that differentiation
happened.

Yeah. Yes. Mhmm.

That makes sense to me.

Yeah. And and to me. The the way part a lot of
it is talking to yourself aboutit. Because if you're not being
honest with yourself, you can'twalk into a doctor's office and
be honest with them. And a lotof the work is a lot of that
work is done on your own, isdone with you.

We can only work with what is, and I don't know
if you're familiar with the workof Byron Katie, but it filters
into my coaching work a lot andour coaching work, a lot, which
is, anytime you're fighting withreality, you lose. We have to be
willing to open eyed in bravery,meet what really is, however
challenging, however shameful,and shame is something you can

(48:03):
process, because it just is.Shame is a story we put on top
of it that doesn't need to bethere, but we often feel it. And
it it's an impediment to beingwith it. So now you have
identified these things.
Did you find it was importantfor you to do this with someone,
a psychotherapist, a coach, afriend? Is this work that you

(48:26):
could have done on your own onceyou understood how it worked?
What what's your relationship tothe supported and or solo nature
of this work?

Well, I did it I did it with a plan in mind.
Want to do the work on my ownbecause I knew I knew I knew,
like, I knew the person that Iwanted to be. I knew the woman,
like, that was the thing. When Iwent through, like, my the
severe depression, which got meback to Fayetteville, I and what

(49:02):
was so crazy was I ended uprunning for, like, counsel,
like, a few months later. I knewwhat that woman looked like on
the other side.
I just had to figure out how toget there. And so I was just
like, alright. Cool. So I gotmyself through it, and at that
time, I didn't have thediagnosis. I didn't have the

(49:23):
diagnosis.

Right.

I I had a therapist, and then I stopped
going to therapy because I had Idid the work. And I ran for
council. I won. And then a yearlater, I was, like, back at
ground 0 because Yeah. I gotelected in December 2019.

(49:47):
My grandmother had passed awayJuly 2018. So that was so from I
decided to run for office inNovember of 2018. So all of 2019
was the first 6 months was stillgrieving and deciding to run and
preparing to run. And then toget elected sworn in December 9

(50:10):
2019. And then March, COVID,stuck in the house.
I can't be active. I can't doanything. 3 months more after
that, social unrest.

Yeah.

And so now I'm like, I'm I'm melting on the
inside. I'm melting. I don'thave anything together, but I
have to put it together. I haveto make it look like it's
together.

And now a quick break from our sponsors, and
we'll be right back to the show.This episode is supported by
Elected Leaders CollectiveFoundation donor, Moon Song
Fund. Thank you. Without you,this show would not be possible

(50:59):
and express the deepestgratitude for your giving. And
if you out there want to seemore of this content, you too
can give like the Moon Song Fundby going to
electedleaderscollective.com,clicking the donate button, and
receiving your tax benefit.
The Healing Our Politics podcastis brought to you by the Elected

(51:22):
Leaders Collective, the firstleading and most highly
recognized name in mentalhealth, well-being, and
performance coaching for electedleaders and public servants
designed specifically for you.Now don't be fooled by the name.
The elected leaders collectiveis not just for elected leaders.
It is for all public servants,staffers, volunteers,

(51:47):
government, nonprofit, wholeorganizations. This is for you.
If you are filled with passionfor improving your community and
world but are tired as I am ofthe anger, stress, and vitriol,
if you find yourself bangingyour head against that same
wall, struggling with theincoming criticism and threats,

(52:08):
arguing with colleagues who aresupposed to be on your team, and
questioning if it's even worthit any more than the elected
leaders collective programmingis specifically for you. With
the elected leaders collective,you will learn to become a
hashtag political healer,building the authentic
unshakable confidence andcourage to stay true to yourself

(52:30):
through the anger and pressurewhile cultivating the open
empathetic mind to meet otherswith curiosity, compassion, and
kindness necessary to respond tothreats, improve challenging
relationships, deescalateconflict, and bring people in
your community together to solvereal problems and get shit done.

(52:51):
You'll reduce stress, anxiety,and overwhelm and become a more
effective leader while havingtime for your family, yourself,
your health, and your wealth,sleeping well at night, and
showing others they can too. Nowthat's leadership. Healing our
politics listeners receive 10%off all elected leaders
collective services using thecode hashtag political healer.

(53:16):
Use it today and become one ofthe brave political leaders
healing our politics. Use codehashtag political healer by
going towww.electedleaderscollective.com
and starting today. That'swww.electedleaderscollective.com
and starting today. Yeah. Imean, the the conditions at the

(53:37):
time preclude so many of your goto mitigation techniques.
You can't go outside. You can'texercise. You can't travel. You
can FaceTime, but you can't seefriends in person. That's really
tough.
And I'm sure if your experiencewas anything like mine being in
elected office during COVID, theidea of I won't use electronics
for the first hour is a joke.

A whole joke.

Like, you got responsibilities that is life
and death that you are usingthat device.

Yeah. Skippy, listen. So before COVID, my foot
foot was to pavement at by 4:30AM running. Minimum of 5 miles,
probably will get 7. Monday,Wednesday, Friday.

That's wild.

13 miles on Saturday. That was my life.
COVID hit. I didn't I stoppeddoing yoga, and I was a yoga
guru. Like, it it would piss offmy counsel for me to post
pictures of me doing yoga.
Piss them off.

Some projection.

Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And so I lost
all of that. And then mydistrict is taking the the
greatest hit.
The market house is on fire. Andyou have and now we're dealing
with race now. I've got sometall white man sitting here
telling me this pointing in myface. This is all your fault. We

(55:07):
gotta protest now.
We gotta be outside. So at nopoint, I was I think I was in
autopilot.

Yeah.

It was just doing.

Yeah. And when you apply the work, right, the
internal work, part of what youlearn sticks with you, whether
those are techniques orobservational understanding, and
you have to keep doing the work.

Yep.

You know, I think of I think of, like,
cleanliness. Right? Like, youcan't shower once and then
expect that to work forever. Orif you think about a sports
analogy, you could learn how tocatch a football, how to make a
jump cut, etcetera. And you willstill know how to do those
things if you stop playing.
But if you go out and youhaven't played for 2 years,
you're not going to do it verywell. And so you really do have

(55:57):
to establish your regular dailypractice, especially when things
go awry.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree. I agree.
And so for me, it it just it wasso much happening at once.
It was so much.

Yeah. What would have been the 3 things that were
hardest that you kinda knewgoing in would be something
you'd had to deal with, but youdidn't realize maybe to what
degree or in what way it wouldbe challenging for you? Yeah.

Dealing with the dealing with the elected
officials that I have looked upto and did community activations
with. So some of them were stillon the board, and so I'm
thinking, oh, I got I gotpartnerships in here. I got, I
can be collaborative with theseindividuals. Nope. That's the

(56:57):
main thing.
I mean, I led community healingevents with them, with some of
them. I've sat on panels withsome of them, like in my early
twenties. And so and what'sfunny is one one elected
official, he never really gaveme any trouble. He he's been
there so long, He used tocampaign in my grandparents'

(57:20):
barbershop.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And so he came in with welcoming arms. But
the others, it was, it was hard.And I did not expect that. When
I when I was still living inAtlanta, there were some things
that the the mayor wasexperiencing.
Well, his this was him runningfor mayor the first time. And so
from Atlanta, I I started makingcalls trying to, you know, get

(57:45):
him elected. And one of mybiggest things when I left
Atlanta was I'm going to go helpmayor. That didn't pan out. So,
yeah.
I think that was it. Servingwith the people that I looked up
to.

In your later years in office or following the
loss, and being out of office,can you just sketch for us sort
of what the process has lookedlike of reclaiming and
reinvesting in the inner work,the self work?

Yeah. So the I'm still going through it,
Skippy. I can say a part of mefeels like I've been having,
like, an identity crisis,because I've been for 4 years
straight, I was doing this onething. Of course, my other
stuff, but I was doing thisthing for 4 years straight. And,

(58:47):
oh, me and my best friends wereon FaceTime 2 nights ago, or
it's probably yesterday.
And we were talking about it,and I said, y'all, I I started a
new puzzle. No. No. No. Theysaid, well, you gotta find new
things to, you know, haveinterest in.
And so they were talking aboutcommunity things to to have

(59:08):
interest in. And so I said, Istarted a new puzzle, and I
showed them my puzzle. And theywas like, nah. We're talking
about new things for you to haveinterest in getting into the
community. And I said, you know,what's so funny is I don't know
how.
I just don't know how. I don'tknow if there is because I don't

(59:31):
have the interest. I don't knowif it's because there's trauma
attached to this community thatI you know, from me and the
community, I don't know how. AndI know for me that I have been
taking a step back from what I'mused to doing to transitioning

(59:51):
into things that I, one, haveexperience with that I know
needs a solution. For instance,if this was a different type of
podcast dealing with politics, Imost likely would not have said
yeah.
But because I recognize that weneed healing in our politics and

(01:00:12):
that's a discussion that needsto be had, absolutely, I'm gonna
be here. So, yeah, I I'm stilltrying to figure this out,
Skippy. I know that I know that,like, where I live now, which is
my grandmother's, home, I'malready like, oh, we need a
crosswalk here. And then was I'malso the I'm on the board for

(01:00:41):
the Friendship CommunityGardens, which is I can walk to
it. So I'm like, okay.
I can I can still grow in mygarden bed? I can be in
community that way. And I'm I'mtrying to pace myself because I
know that when I get back outthere into the community, you

(01:01:01):
know what that does. Oh, she'sgonna run for office again. What
is she getting ready to do?
And it's none of that. I juststill want to have that self
fulfillment for service.

Skippy Mesirow (01:01:12):
Such that you don't feel alone in this
experience. Yeah. Since I lostmy reelection, my response has
been very similar. I had spent,you know, over a decade prior to
becoming a city council person,being highly invested and highly
visible in my community in anumber of different ways and

(01:01:32):
roles, and I kinda disappearedfor 6 months. Like, I was there,
but unless you were on a runningtrail or at my house for a
dinner that my partner and Iwere cooking, you probably
didn't see me.
And on one side, I think I dohave some some emotional residue
and emotional hangover of howmuch I invested in not just

(01:01:59):
time, but my heart in thecommunity and felt like it just
wasn't it wasn't aligned. And sowanting to prioritize putting my
time into things that areequally as impactful but are
more likely to be successful.And so that's why we're on this

(01:02:21):
podcast. That's why I'm a mastercoach now. Like, I don't have to
push rocks up hills.
I just follow what people areasking for, and then I watch
their service expand and theirjoy expand, and that feels
really nice. But I'm also I amkeeping myself out of community
in a way that I know isn'tforever, and I've actually

(01:02:43):
already said to my partner thissummer, this has to change
because this is such a big partof me. But I I had the same
experience. And then selfishly,which I think I get to refill my
cup a bit on community, youknow, I live in what is for me
the most amazing place on earth.Like, I love my town.
It is remarkable for all of itschallenges. I love it. And it

(01:03:04):
became harder to see that whileI was in office. Yes. Because
right?
Is that did you feel that aswell?

Shakeyla Ingram (01:03:12):
To leave just to go have fun.

Yeah. I mentioned anxiety is is a thing.
Yeah. That was like that's myversion of of bipolar. Right?
And, to this day, even thoughI'm well out of office, no one's
gonna well, not no one. Mostpeople aren't gonna bother me
with political things now. Theplace that is most guaranteed,
almost a 100% hit rate to put meinto an anxiety space, the

(01:03:39):
grocery store, as soon as I showup at the grocery store. Right?
Because I remember what it usedto be like to try to find
groceries, and it's like, I'mgonna be here for 3 hours, and
I'm not gonna just have randomconversations.
I'm gonna be havingconversations about everything
that's wrong. And if I go outfor a trail run-in the most
beautiful place in the world, ifI'm getting my 5 miles in, I get
stopped. Place in the world, ifI'm getting my 5 miles in, I get
stopped not for someone to dowhat they do today, which is go,

(01:04:00):
god. Isn't it so amazing? Oraren't we so lucky?
And I'm like, yeah. We're solucky. I feel so good. It was
like, what the fuck are youdoing about x? Why are you
messing up y?
This is a problem here. Can youbelieve and it's like, just to,
like, every day only hear aboutthe problems is really tough.

Yes. Listen. I knew I listen. I knew this was
the last time somebody had doneit because the election
happened, like, right after. Aguy walked up to me.
We were at a celebration for allAmerican cities because we had
just won all American cities anddid not say hi. And then what I

(01:04:40):
felt like, I felt like, do youthink you got ownership over me?
Because what came out of theirmouth was, you owe me some
answers about that vote. What'sup with that vote? What are you
thinking?
Just walked up on me like that.

Mhmm.

And I said, excuse you. Learn how to speak
first. And I I knew I was, like,really past all the bull. And I
am kinda like, once again,things happen for a reason
because I think this term wouldalooked real real different for
me had because you do get youget so tired of it. I had to

(01:05:20):
like, I'm very big on I don'thave to travel out of my
district to to really doanything.
I grocery shop, get my nose on,hair done. All the fun is in my
district. And when I foundmyself traveling all the way to
Skybo Road just to get my nailsdone, I knew that, oh my gosh,

(01:05:40):
there's and I don't wanna saythere's, like, too much access
because I actually loved whenpeople have access to me, but
there's a difference when theyrespect the access they have to
you.

To your point earlier, it's also our
responsibility to train peoplehow to treat us. Absolutely. And
no one tells us that when we'regetting into office. There's no
training on that.

That part, no one tells that. And so when I'm
doing trainings, I'm tellingpeople that. Give yourself
access to people as much as youcan handle and also ensure that
they respect the access. If youdon't do anything on Sunday,
don't do anything on Sunday. TheI believe there's not anything
in this world that somebodyshould blow your phone up about

(01:06:21):
that much.
And if it's that gonna happenlike that, they should be
calling 911. Mhmm.

Yeah. I'll I'll give a specific example. Early
in my term, in my first coupleyears, when I was leading from a
less conscious and less informedplace, I was the person crossing
the street, nearly getting hitby a car because I was just
buried in my phone 24 hours aday, responding to every email

(01:06:48):
immediately because something inme said this is my job. This is
my responsibility. And that wassuper unhealthy for me.
It didn't help my sleep. Itdidn't actually make me any
better at responding to things.It just made me faster. It
satiated maybe my ego's desireto tell people that I was
responsive, but it wasn't supereffective. In my 2nd or 3rd

(01:07:10):
year, I switched to a batchedemail protocol in which I had I
did a couple of things.
I set an away message that letpeople know I think at the time,
it was 3 times a day. Now it'sonce a day. But, hey, I only
check my email 3 times a day.This allows me to be more
present, focused, and aware ofthe person in front of me right

(01:07:33):
now, and, like, that may be youone day. So, I will get back to
you within 24 hours.
And if it's an emergency, youcan call me. So I let people
know what my boundaries were. Igave them a reason for those
boundaries that actually servethem. I'll do what you need
better when I can focus on itintently, and I gave them an out

(01:07:54):
for an emergency. Now I do thinkit is a right of a citizen to
reach out at any time.
That's that's what we are therefor, but it's also our
responsibility to set thoseboundaries. And I was very
scared that I was going to get,you know, a flamethrower to the
face for that choice. And therewere 5% of people who had
something snarky to say aboutit. But 95% of people who had a

(01:08:18):
comment were like, wow. That'sreally awesome.
I wish I could do that. How didyou set that up? And the other
thing that I did is I used atool called inbox when ready,
which allowed me to go into myemail to send an email so I
could get workflow done, butwithout seeing the unread
messages. So it hides them fromyou unless you click a button

(01:08:38):
that says show inbox, which wasrevelatory for me because the
way my brain is wired, if I seesomething undone, oh my god. I'm
so stressed until it's done.
And so not having to see that,like, removed all the stress for
me, but it's just a specificexample of how we can set our
own boundaries and, you know,people will have to adapt.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so I did that, I
did that in my second term whereI I I because it was like, got
it. I sent the away message.Hey, miss Shaquille.
I'll get back to you at thistime. If it's an emergency, call
these numbers. And I didn'tdidn't have much, you know,

(01:09:20):
nothing negative came back fromit. I did, you know, experience
the when I'm at dinner,especially in my downtown. Oh,
excuse me.
You know, did you know when thisor can you can you get help me
do this? I have a mouthful ofshrimp right now. You know? I
can't I can't I can't. I'msorry, but I can't.

(01:09:43):
But, you know, those boundariesare major. I mean, you have you
have elected officials that areemailed through in the midnight
Oh, yeah. Through the wee hoursof the morning. And don't let it
be like somebody trying to bepetty. And I I would literally
sit and have to text them and belike, y'all go to bed.

(01:10:06):
Go to bed. Like, y'all arearguing about something. And
what I thought was funny was theone person that would start the
argument started it to create apublic record. And then the
person that will argue back andforth and not even realizing is

(01:10:26):
really telling on themselves. Sonow you have a public record of
you telling on yourself.
And so I but to allow it to havethat level of control over you
is insane. And and while it'sinsane, yeah, it happens, but we
gotta recognize when to catch itand stop it from having that

(01:10:49):
type of control over you.Because once it gets that type
of control over you, you're justdoing anything. And it begins to
affect, once again, your ethics.It begins to affect how you
treat people, how you respond topeople, and then you forget the
goal.
You forget why you're here. Youforget who put you here.

So I wanna start to move into applicable lessons
learned, how these challengesbecame tools. And I wonder if we
started with this, which isShaquille today is going to
write a very simple bullet pointmanual for Shaquille on day 1 of

(01:11:34):
office. Like, you're gonna handit to your your past self the
day she wins the election beforeshe takes her seat. Do these x
things that I've learned, andyou are going to have a much
more successful, enjoyable timein office. What does the table
of contents for that guide say?

The first line item is gonna be whoever's name
that is. So for me, it's gonnabe my name, Shaquille Ingram.
And what that will mean for meis it'll take me through, like,
who I am because I think we allhave to remember who we are when
we start something, especiallyin politics. So I wanted to take

(01:12:17):
it through take me through who Iam, again, what are my triggers,
how I operate. The next table ofcontent is gonna be boundaries.
The next table of content isgoing to be partnership. The
next one would be safety. Andwhen I say safety, all things

(01:12:45):
that encompass safety, likebeing safe. Who's your safe
space? Who are the people youfeel most safe with?
You know, your like, my kitchencabinet, my kitchen table. And
then I think I would end it witha letter. Like, I end my book
with the letter. I I'm a so Iget my letter writing from my

(01:13:09):
great grandmother. When I livedin Atlanta, as she got older,
she wanted me to, like, let herwrite her more so she could stay
hip to the to what was going onin the world.
And so I would write a letter toexpress all of the things that
she that I may experience, butto remember certain key things

(01:13:31):
about who who I am and what Ineed to do to see this through.

So an opener with the reminder of who you
are, the boundary setting aroundyour time, emails, issues, the
cultivation of safety, includingwho can I go to in times of
challenge, and then a letter atthe end with a longer form
reminder of coming back to self?And then there's this piece of

(01:14:00):
partnership. Can you just giveus a little bit more on what
that means?

Yeah. Partnership. I think for me, I
struggled with makingpartnerships. And the
partnerships that I did end upmaking were trauma based
partnerships. They were I waspartnered I had partnerships

(01:14:25):
with the 4 of the 3 other blackwomen on council.
We all were having the sameexperience. It was 5 women
total, but, it it was aninteresting dynamic. So we had 4
black men, 4 black women, 1white man, 1 white woman. And me

(01:14:48):
and those 3 other black women,we came together, and I think
we've came together because ofour lived experience and because
of our makeup. And our othercounterpart, I felt like she
just wanted to be one of theboys.
And so there was never any spacefor advocacy for us because she

(01:15:08):
was playing the same game thatthey were playing. And and so I
I wish I would have figured outhow to have better, more
meaningful partnerships withother council members. I knew

(01:15:29):
all of their their skills. Iknew what they were good for. I
knew where they, you know, theyprobably lacked in.
But I think at the end of it, Ihad partnerships where they
mattered. I was able to get afull build out for a community
because I had a greatpartnership with the with our
senator.

How did you approach people differently that
yielded that shift in result?

I think I was able to approach them in a more
open open and less aggressiveway.

Yeah.

Because I knew we all had the same interest.

Yes.

We all had the same interest. There was no, I'm
gonna do this on the back end.Probably was, but when it came
down to what I was trying to seethrough for this community, they
were on they were on board likeI was on board.

I'd like to go through a few things that I
pulled out from your book that Ithink might be instructive.
These are kinda quick hitters ofof concepts that you've
identified, created, orborrowed. I'm not sure that
might be helpful for others. ButI think to frame it, it might be
helpful. I've heard you talkabout trauma, and I've heard you

(01:16:50):
describe it.
And correct me if I'm notgetting this precisely right.
I'm sure I'm not quoting it. Buttrauma are events that you don't
choose, whereas healing areevents that you do choose. Can
you elaborate on that frameworkas a basis to moving into some

(01:17:10):
of these concepts that you'vecreated around healing?

When we set out to do something, for instance,
like, somebody's intention mayhave been good to do something
or to help something, but itcould have went so far

left. Mhmm. But

I didn't mean to do that. Right? I didn't
choose for this to happen.That's where the idea came from
that. You know, for the instancewhere I got stood up on in a
closed session, I was stating afact.
You had one council member thattold another council member,

(01:17:49):
hey. Y'all not gonna like what'sgonna happen tonight. Key
indicator that y'all had ameeting before this. I'm
tracking what's happening. I'mseeing the roles play out.
I'm a very observant person. Ireally think y'all just had a
meeting before this, and Ireally think we just need to go
ahead and stop theatrics. Mhmm.I didn't tell you to stand up

(01:18:14):
and yell at me. You decided thaton your own because what I said
was a fact.
However, though you did that,I'm going to choose to heal.
Mhmm. Because what has happenedto me, I don't wanna live with

(01:18:36):
on me. Though at that time, Ichose to live with it. And I
when I tell you it was war, itwas war.
Like, I saw nothing but redafter that. So for like a 6
months or so straight, I waslike on everybody's ass. I was
on everybody. There was ainstance when a black male on my

(01:18:59):
board says, you're out herebeing booty calls to so and so.
We were in an argument at cityhall.
And I was just so taken back. Iwas just like, wait a minute.
I'm what? And I stopped and thenI said, I don't talk about your
personal life. I don't I said,anybody that ever tries that

(01:19:21):
with me, I shut it down becauseI'm not here for that.
And of course, that goes againstmy ethics. Like, I wouldn't dare
want somebody to do you likethat. They denied it. But not
only did they deny it, they wentto their girlfriend at the time
and told them that they actuallysaid it, laughing and joking

(01:19:43):
about it. And didn't think thatI was gonna find out.
But at the same time, okay, thathurt. It truly hurt. But though
I did not tell you to attack mein that regard, I'm going to
choose to heal because I cannothandle being triggered that way,

(01:20:07):
walking around thinking, oh mygosh. This entire city thinks
I'm a I'm I'm a booty call towho knows what. And I'm not even
doing anything.
I was so scared to date. I wasso scared to and I hate to say
it like this, Skippy, but I'msingle. I'm smart. I'm
beautiful. I got a shape on me.

(01:20:27):
I got everything. You get whatI'm saying? Like, so

Confirmed. If you're in audio, confirmed,
obviously.

So, you know, I was scared to do anything
because of the narrative thatpeople will draw against you.

Yeah. In the recent, Apolitical Foundation
Mere Mortals report, how thewell-being of, elected officials
is being impacted, I think it'ssome crazy statistic. It's like,
and, again, I may be slightlywrong, but it's, like, 80% of
female African American electedleaders face sexual harassment.

(01:21:06):
Yes. 80%.

Yes. And didn't dawn on me what was happening to
me. Did not dawn on me. I'm overhere like, he really just called
me back. And I was so numb.
I was so numb. And so while allof these things are happening,
but even though it has happenednow and trauma is there now, I

(01:21:32):
have to choose to heal. And oneof the healing with methods that
I tried was I I had aconversation with my therapist
about it, and I said, this iswhat I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
call all 3 of them up, and I'mgonna offer them to come sit and
have coffee so that we can talkit out. Because when I go back
into session, I don't want it tobe a war.

(01:21:53):
I don't want that. It was soheavy on me. But guess what? I
didn't in my mind, I was thevictim here. I was the victim in
my mind at the time.
So I called the meeting, and 2of them had the meeting together
because it was the 2 that thatthat did the yelling at me. And

(01:22:13):
I said, this is this is how Ifeel. This is what I think, and
this is what what you did mademe feel. One of them was like,
this is just silly. This is justsilly.
And I'm I can't believe what I'mand, also, this is the older
generation I'm talking about. Soto really get them to to say

(01:22:35):
that they were wrong, good luck.And then one says, he he
apologized, but he he put itback on me. I really think you
he said, I really think you havesome some unhealed trauma with
with relationships with men thatyou need to work out. But if I

(01:22:57):
did make you feel some type ofway, I I do apologize.
I was like, oh, okay. And then Iwas like, this is just silly.
This is just silly. Just keptsaying it. And when I said I'm a
I'm a yeller, they recalled oneinstance where I was yelling and
cussing about an

issue. Mhmm.

These are pastors now.

Mhmm.

So they took it as I was yelling and cussing at
them.

Mhmm.

And so I took the opportunity to say, you know
what? I'm sorry that you feltthat way. That was never
directed at you, and I gave theman example of when they should
know is directed at them.

So what I'm what I'm hearing is that the lack of
choice in the experience and abig experience and a confronting
experience, when things don't goas intended and cause harm,
that's trauma, but the resultthe reverse of that is choosing
to even in the face of thatchallenge, of that initial

(01:24:02):
feeling of victimization, whichit sounds like you no longer
view yourself as the victim inthat. Is that true?

It still happened to me. So, yeah, I am.
But I do have a understanding ofof how everyone's role can play
a part.

And so from that place, there was a period of
time where you said you werereally at them. Right? So you're
responding from that triggeredplace, but then there's a later
time where you're able to stepback and observe it, to see the
bigger picture, to see the partthat you played in it
intentionally orunintentionally. And from that
place of empowerment, then youcan choose, and from that

(01:24:44):
choice, healing happens. Is thataccurate?

Mhmm.

Yes. Mhmm. I wanna read a quote, that I
pulled up from Desmond Tutu. Soif anyone's not not familiar
with Desmond was part of thePeace and Reclamation Commission
in South Africa following thefall of the apartheid regime
where they brought peopletogether, people who had
subjugated, hurt, others, andthen those who were the

(01:25:11):
recipient of those actions. Andit's a quote about forgiveness
or understanding, but I think itapplies here, which is
forgiveness does not relievesomeone of responsibility for
what they've done.
Forgiveness does not eraseaccountability. It is not about
turning a blind eye or eventurning the other cheek. It is
not about letting someone offthe hook or saying it's okay to

(01:25:32):
do something monstrous.Forgiveness is simply about
understanding that every one ofus is both inherently good and
inherently flawed. Within everyhopeless situation and every
seemingly hopeless person liesthe possibility of
transformation.
Yeah. And to me, that summarizesin so much what you went

(01:25:54):
through, and then I've got 2other quotes I've pulled here.

Mhmm.

One from a woman you worked with who some people
may have heard of. Her name'sOprah Winfrey. Yeah. And the
quote is forgiveness is givingup on the hope that the past
could have been any different.And then lastly, from Nelson
Mandela, which I think isultimately why we choose to

(01:26:19):
forgive, resentment is likedrinking poison and hoping it
will kill your enemies.
Mhmm.

Yeah.

And so what I hear is, like, yeah. There's
plenty of fault to go around,but I'm gonna take the choice to
do what I can do to free myselffrom having to live with that
experience.

Absolutely.

So good. So good. Alright. Few quick
hitters, things you'veidentified that are quotable,
and I would love for you toexplain what these are and
anything else you wanna shareabout them in brief. But this
idea of intentionality, whatdoes that what is that?
What does that mean? How do youpractice it?

Yeah. Intentionality is seeing
something, knowing that that iswhat you want for yourself and
making very, very direct actionsor steps to see your way to
that.

And goal friends. What is

your goal friends? Girlfriends. Man,
girlfriends is making sure thatwe we see each other. I mean,
and truly see each other. Ithink because, you know, within
our generation, we are we'reprofession driven.
We're goal oriented. We're doingall of the things I think our

(01:27:45):
grandparents and our ancestorswould want us to do. So
girlfriends is make ensuringthat we see our our friends, and
we are showing up for ourfriends in whatever their their
goals are.

One last broad question, and then we'll start
to land this plane. But one ofthe the areas where you and I do
have significant distinction inour environment is I'm fortunate
now to live in a place that, youknow, people have their basic
needs met. Right? It's aaffluent community, and so

(01:28:22):
people have plenty of time tonot everyone, not all the time.
I mean, it's the adage where Ilive is you either have 3 homes
or 3 jobs, and that's true.
But even in the 3 job world, wehave time to get outside, to be
active, to move our bodies. Andin other communities such as
yourself, and correct me if I'mwrong about this, that's that's

(01:28:43):
not available to a lot of folks.Like, you are really working all
day every day in high stressjobs. You're not working from
your computer. You're you'reyou're just you're in it, and
it's so hard to find healingwhen you're in it.
Right?

Yeah.

And so I wonder if you would, a, agree with that
assessment, and then, b, for notjust leaders in communities like
that, but just humans who can'tor don't have the haven't yet
found the ability to extricatethemselves from those that in
moment to find healing, like,what advice would you have for

(01:29:21):
how to heal in that environment?

So healing in the environment you got sick in
is a struggle. You will findyourself pulling back from
people, from things that you areused to doing, which is
completely okay because yougotta do whatever you gotta do

(01:29:45):
to save you. And I will say thisto you, you gotta do whatever
you have to do to save you. Forme, the first time I went
through my severe depressionwhere I was, like, living in
Atlanta, I did not stay in thatenvironment. It was a part of
why I was becoming sick.
I had a supervisor to tell me,well, if you wanna keep a job,

(01:30:06):
you will tell your family thatyou'll come on such and such
date. And in my brain, I wasjust like, you got me fucked up.
You know? Like, uh-uh. Mygrandmother had already been in
the hospital twice in in thatweek, and that started my down
spiral because I could not bethere for my grandmother.
So you already know that thatwas, like, heavy on me. July

(01:30:30):
came around. My therapist put meon medical leave, June June
30th. I got home July first. Mygrandmother passed away July
21st.
And so I never went back. Istayed home. I stayed here in
Fayetteville. So that I did notheal in the environment that I

(01:30:52):
got sick in. But when I was oncouncil, I had no other choice.
I still had a time to serve. Iliterally had to pull back. I
became medicated, still had toshow up, and I couldn't show up
and was crying all the time. Andso I pulled back just to
maintain, like, the balance ofmy mental health. But my healing

(01:31:16):
journey was, it was veryintimate.
It it had to be intimate as anelected official. It had to be.

Yeah. What I'm hearing in that as someone who's
been through a 12 step program,it's like the number one thing
is change your environment, andthat doesn't mean you gotta go
on a trip to Hawaii or move, butit does mean you don't go back
to the bar. You don't hang outwith the same drinking friends.

(01:31:46):
And so finding even small waysto shift your physical space,
your community can open a portalto different ways of thinking
and healing. Final question.
Same question to everyone on theshow, which is a recognition
that our audience is not are notpassive observers. These are the

(01:32:08):
humans in the arena. They're onthe council tables. They're the
citizens speaking up atmeetings. They're asking for
that crosswalk, whatever it maybe, educating the children,
giving out the presents.
And so knowing that, if youcould leave them with only one
thing, one quote, one thought,one idea that would best

(01:32:30):
resource them to be a vector forhealing our politics, what would
it be?

Yeah. So I want to consult my book. It's simple
reminder number 11, and I'mgonna paraphrase it. Right? I
don't care how others may notlike how you show up or how you
lead.
The journey of leadership andand being authentic and being

(01:33:01):
intentional is going to betough, and it's going to be
hard. Mhmm. But you must showup. You must show up regardless.
You must lead.
You must still choose to beintentional.

Amen. Amen, sister. Where can people find
you? Where can they work withyou? Where can they follow you?
How do we find Shaquille?

Okay. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook,
TikTok at shaquille ingram. Andthen my website is shaquille
ingram.com. And then the book isintentionallyhere.com. But both
can be accessed from each.

Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time today,
for your continued leadership,for your bravery and willingness
to learn from every experienceto serve others. I so appreciate
you.

I appreciate you too, Skippy. Thank you so
much for this. I mean, this isjust a beautiful podcast. Thank
you.

Thank you so much for joining us today. If
you wanna put what you've heardhere today into practice, sign
up for our newsletter, theleader's handbook, where each
month you'll receive just oneemail with a curated selection
of the most useful tools andpractices discussed on this
podcast today and over thecourse of the last month.

(01:34:33):
Delivered in simple how toworksheets, videos, and audio
guides. So you and your teamscan try and test these out in
your own life and see what bestserves you. And lastly, if you
wanna be a vector for healingour politics, if you wanna do
your part, take out your phoneright now and share this podcast
with 5 colleagues you careabout.

(01:34:55):
Send a simple text, drop a line,and leave the ball in their
court because the truth is themore those around you do their
work, the better it will show upin your life, in your community,
and in your world. Have abeautiful day. The Healing Hour

(01:35:19):
Politics podcast is brought toyou by the Elected Leaders
Collective, the first leadingand most highly recognized name
in mental health, well-being,and performance coaching for
elected leaders and publicservants designed specifically
for you. Now don't be fooled bythe name. The elected leaders

(01:35:40):
collective is not just forelected leaders.
It is for all public servants,staffers, volunteers,
government, nonprofit, wholeorganizations. This is for you.
If you are filled with passionfor improving your community and
world but are tired as I am ofthe anger, stress, and betrayal,

(01:36:02):
if you find yourself bangingyour head against that same
wall, struggling with theincoming criticism and threats,
arguing with colleagues who aresupposed to be on your team and
questioning if it's even worthit any more than the elected
leaders collective programmingis specifically for you. With
the elected leaders collective,you will learn to become a

(01:36:23):
hashtag political healer,building the authentic,
unshakable confidence andcourage to stay true to yourself
through the anger and pressurewhile cultivating the open
empathetic mind to meet otherswith the curiosity, compassion,
and kindness necessary torespond to threats, improve
challenging relationships,deescalate conflict, and bring

(01:36:45):
people in your communitytogether to solve real problems
and get shit done. You'll reducestress, anxiety, and overwhelm
and become a more effectiveleader while having time for
your family, yourself, yourhealth, and your wealth,
sleeping well at night, andshowing others they can too.

(01:37:06):
Now that's leadership. Healingour politics listeners receive
10% off all elected leaderscollective services using the
code hashtag political healer.Use it today and become one of
the brave political leadershealing our politics. Use code
hashtag political healer bygoing to

(01:37:28):
and starting today. That'swww.electedleaderscollective.com
and starting today.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Beyond Bipolar: Shakeyla Ingram’s Journey of Healing, Forgiveness, and Resilience in Public Office

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

Beyond Bipolar: Shakeyla Ingram’s Journey of Healing, Forgiveness, and Resilience in Public Office

24/7 News: The Latest