Ep.173 Your Mouth Is the Mirror of Your Health: Dr. Mark Burhenne on Sleep, Hormones & Longevity

Unlocking the Oral-Systemic Connection with Dr. Mark Burhenne

Did you know your mouth may be the first place chronic disease, hormone imbalances, poor sleep, and even accelerated aging show up? In this powerful episode of Asking for a Friend, functional dentist and bestselling author Dr. Mark Burhenne explains why oral health is the true gateway to whole-body wellness—and why traditional dentistry often overlooks these critical connections.

From the surprising impact of dry mouth and receding gums during menopause, to how airway health affects sleep, brain function, and longevity, Dr. Burhenne breaks down what midlife women need to know. You’ll learn:

• Why 90% of sleep apnea remains undiagnosed—and why slim, active women are at risk
• The hidden dangers of mouthwash, root canals, and cavitations
• How oral bacteria influence heart health and nitric oxide production
• Simple daily practices like mouth taping and oil pulling that can transform health
• The link between oral health, Alzheimer’s disease, and hormone shifts in midlife

Dr. Burhenne also shares his personal journey with sleep apnea, insights from his book The Eight-Hour Sleep Paradox, and his mission to revolutionize oral care through his “For Your Good Guys” hydroxyapatite product line.

If you care about your smile, your sleep, and your longevity, this conversation will change the way you look in the mirror each morning. Your mouth is talking—are you listening?

https://www.instagram.com/askthedentist/

https://askthedentist.com/

Dr. Mark Burhenne's book, The 8 Hour Sleep Paradox, is available on Amazon and other booksellers.

_________________________________________
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Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.

Episode Transcript

Michele Folan (00:00):
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(00:23):
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Let's get started today.

(00:44):
In this episode of Asking for aFriend, Dr Mark Burhenne uses
the term NO.
No stands for nitric oxide,health, wellness, fitness and
everything in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.

(01:05):
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
What if I told you that thesecret to your energy, your
hormones, your sleep and evenyour longevity could be hiding
in plain sight every time youlook in the mirror?
Today we're talking about theone area of health most of us

(01:28):
overlook our mouth.
It's not just about cavities orwhite teeth.
Your oral health can be thevery first warning sign of
chronic disease, hormoneimbalance, poor sleep and even
accelerated aging.
My guest today, Dr.
Mark Burhenne, is a pioneer infunctional dentistry and the
author of the Eight-Hour SleepParadox.

(01:48):
He's here to unpack why healthtruly starts in the mouth, what
your dentist may not be tellingyou and the simple daily
practices that could add yearsnot just to your smile, but to
your life.
Dr Mark Burhenne, welcome toAsking for a Friend.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (02:04):
Thank you, Michele, glad to be here.

Michele Folan (02:06):
I have been so excited about this topic because
it's not something that I thinkgets enough attention out there
.
We just did a podcast aboutwomen's hair loss and I think,
honestly, this one's up therewith things that get kind of
overlooked in this whole thingcalled midlife.

(02:29):
Before we get started, Dr.
Burhenne and I'm going to callyou Dr B tell us a little bit
about where you're from andwhere you went to school and the
juicy details.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (02:40):
Absolutely Great to be here.
Absolutely Great to be here.
It's funny that you mentionedhair loss.
It was a quandary as apracticing dentist in the
Silicon Valley that a lot ofwomen would cancel their dental
appointment because their hairappointment was not more
important but more difficult toget.
So anyway, I thought that wasinteresting.
They're both very important,right?
Yeah, we'll just leave it withthat.

(03:01):
So I'm California raised.
I was born in Boston.
I spent a year in England.
My dad did a residency outsideof London, so I was a little
baby bouncing around in a basket.
Then my mom and dad drove outfrom Boston.
He had gone to Harvard and Iliterally sat in the back of an
Opal station wagon, in a basket,no seatbelt, and made it out to

(03:24):
California.
So I was about a year old.
I was raised in San Francisco,went to local schools, went to
local summer schools, then wentup to University of British
Columbia for college.
My dad had moved up there.
It was a great opportunity tosee a different part of the
world.
It was a great school, is agreat school, very large though
and they had a good dentalprogram.

(03:44):
But halfway through I realizedthat I couldn't get in as an
American.
So, but the backup was apply todental schools and, thank
goodness, not first round, butas a I was on the waiting list
for my first choice, which wasSan Francisco, and my wife was
overjoyed because she did notwant to go to Boston for four
years and her career would havebeen effective, certainly.

(04:05):
So went to dental school atUniversity of the Pacific Dental
School, now called the schoolof it's named after Dugoni, the
founder, incredible man andmentor, and then set up shop in
the Silicon Valley and raisedthree daughters and then retired
and moved to another valley,napa Valley, not far away but

(04:26):
not really retired, been veryactive online and still have a
lot to say about dentistry.
There's a lot of frustrationthere for me and on certain
topics that aren't gettingdiscussed, which hopefully we'll
talk about today, and that'spretty much.
That's it, just trying to stayactive, stay healthy, keep tabs
on my three daughters fewson-in-laws and enjoy time with

(04:51):
my wife.

Michele Folan (04:51):
Well, we are so lucky that you haven't totally
retired, because if anybodyfollows Ask the Dentist on
Instagram you know this guy ischock full of great information
and we're going to dig into that.
Because you say that healthstarts in the mouth, but that's
not something we hear a lot frommainstream medicine.
Can you tell us what you meanby that?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (05:14):
Yeah, it's not meant to be catchy or
clickbait, it really does haveyou know.
It's important to understandthat and if you don't then
you'll never be healthy.
Health does start in the mouth.
Physicians and dentists reallydon't understand that.
You could first start with justthe geography aspect of it.
It is a gateway.
You could also.

(05:35):
The metaphor I like to use isthat it is the headwaters of the
whole river system.
It's the beginning.
Anything that happens upstreamcan can have effects downstream.
But most people can relate tothis gateway aspect because
every bite of food, every breathwe take, whether it's through
the nose or mouth big differencethere, every sip.

(05:57):
I mean that gateway is samplingthe environment.
It is tuning the immune systembased on what's coming in.
I mean it's a portal anddownstream, of course, it
affects other systems like thegut microbiome.
Healthy gums and teeth protectagainst harmful bacteria which

(06:18):
do, whether they're healthy ornot, enter the bloodstream.
And that's what causes gumdisease and inflammation in the
mouth.
And we know the mechanismsinflammation, injury, infection.
These are the ways that thesebacteria in the mouth, in this
gateway, can affect the rest ofthe body.
So if that doesn't work well orif it's affected in one way or
another.
Could be high CO2 levels inyour room, it could be air

(06:40):
pollution, it could be mouthbreathing which leads to gum
disease, which leads to superinfections or infections that go
beyond the mouth.
The oral systemic connection Abalanced oral microbiome.
It helps digestion, immunity,nitric oxide production.
That is one of the, especiallyafter age 40, that's one of the

(07:00):
main pathways that is not wellknown.
I was on a podcast a few weeksago with one of the great
breathing experts in the worldand of course we were talking
about nasal breathing, how itcan, if you do it correctly, can
give you short bursts of NO.
But he wasn't aware of theother pathway and we'll talk
more about that.
But these bugs, the oralmicrobiome on the back of your

(07:22):
tongue that can take a prebioticnitrate, a beet and a piece of
arugula and turn it into NO.
So it seems like a lot ishappening in the mouth that most
physicians aren't even aware of.
No blame to them.
They're not trained in thatarea.
It's a fault of the academicsystem.
But dentists don't know thateither.

(07:43):
And and again, that's not thatis the fault of the academic
system, but the dentalcurriculum is full in those
three to four years that ittakes to train a dentist.
There's a lot of surgery andclinical expertise that has to
be passed on, so it's it's aneducation that a dentist would
get after the fact throughcontinuing education.

(08:03):
So again, good oral healthsupports the whole body and is
responsible for, of course,maintaining oral health, but bad
oral health undermines all ofthe above.

Michele Folan (08:14):
You know we talk more about midlife women on this
podcast.
That's my primary audience andI was reading yesterday or today
that two out of threeAlzheimer's patients are women
and I was wondering if you mightadd to that conversation in

(08:34):
terms of how that connectionwould be with oral health and
dementia and Alzheimer's.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (08:41):
Great, that's a great question.
And women are more likely toget Alzheimer's.
We've known that for a while.
The question is is why?
And I'm not going to say thatthe oral part of the equation is
everything, but it is part ofit and that discussion has to be
had.
So it's pretty well known, Ithink, that many midlife women
we're talking about menopausalwomen they experience dry mouth,

(09:04):
it's receding gums, morecavities than usual, and it is
hormone related and it's due tothe effect of low estrogen and
progesterone.
It's that drop, whether it'sgradual or sudden, it doesn't
matter, but that affects thesaliva flow and saliva is
everything to oral health.
It preserves that oralmicrobiome, it supports it, it

(09:28):
provides an environment, itfeeds it, it provides an immune
response, it keeps things moist.
The other thing that doesn't gettalked about at all is that the
drop in both of those hormonesdue to menopause affects the
airway muscle tone of women andthat's why women if you look at
sleep studies, men have a kindof a linear progression in terms

(09:50):
of the degree of severity ofthe obstruction of the airway
and snoring.
Women stay kind of low and thenwhen menopause, perimenopause,
appears, it goes a lot steeperand they catch up with men, and
sometimes past men, in terms ofobstructive airway issues, osa,

(10:11):
obstructive sleep apnea, andthat's all due to this loss of
these hormones.
So there's dry mouth,serostomia caused by the lack of
hormones or the hormones beingless receding.
Gums, uh, bone, we we can talkabout bone density.
We see that.
You know, women are veryconcerned about that.

(10:32):
It's debatable whether thataffects the bone around the
teeth, the alveolar bone.
There's some back and forth onthat.
But certainly collagen.
Collagen is key for keeping theteeth in their in their sockets
and preventing gum disease andalso cavities.
The rate of cavities go upbecause of the dry mouth.
Saliva acts as a buffer andevery time you eat something,

(10:53):
especially if it's acarbohydrate, you're creating
acid attack.
In other words, those bacteriaconsume the fermentable
carbohydrate and acid isproduced.
That is the excrement or thebyproduct of that metabolic
process, of the bugs eating asaltine cracker or a piece of
bread of course candies on thelist.
And if saliva isn't around,then you won't get the

(11:13):
remunerization effect, becausethat's where the hydroxyapatite
is, the calcium and phosphate,that's the reservoir, but also
the pH is off and so low salivameans that it's less likely for
that acidic moment to reverseand become more neutral, and the
normal pH of the mouth is 6.8to 7.1.

(11:34):
So there's a lot that goes onduring menopause.
I mean that's the major issuethat I think you're referring to
.

Michele Folan (11:40):
Yeah, and so the first time you and I spoke I
told you that I started usingmouth tape because all of a
sudden and I don't know whenthis started, but it was enough
that my husband noticed was thatI was breathing through my
mouth and kind of snoring butjust kind of gaspy but just kind

(12:08):
of gaspy and so probably someapnea, but it was waking him up.
And then I noticed I was wakingup in the morning with really
dry mouth and I'm going thiscannot be good and I knew you
would have some feedback for meabout that.
So I did start doing the mouthtaping and I that.
Let me tell you something mysleep quality has increased
exponentially with the mouthtape.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (12:29):
I mean it works for many.
I mean you're just redirectingthe airflow.
Now you're lucky that you canmouth tape.
A lot of people that try mouthtaping and it doesn't work for
them.
Or it makes sleep worse, orthey toss and turn a lot, or it
comes off.
Or even if they sit and watchtv, which I recommend first, if
you're interested in mouthtaping, sit in front of the tv
or reading a book for three,four, five, six, ten minutes,

(12:51):
and if you can keep the tape onand not suffer, get anxious or
hyperventilate a little bit,then that's something you can do
at night.
But it's not a cure for sleepapnea.
But you are a perfect, perfectcase's so many.
Obviously, the majority ofpeople will benefit from mouth
taping.
All you're doing is redirectingthe air through a different,
different passageway, which hasbenefit, and and it back to

(13:14):
menopause.
Even perimenopause, it seems tocome online at that point for a
lot of women, because they doget dry.
There is dryness, as Imentioned, the saliva glands are
affected by the drop inestrogen and progesterone, and
so that leads to dry mouth.
And remember, if the airway iscollapsing at night and most of

(13:37):
us have that.
I mean, 90% of sleep apnea isundiagnosed in this country.
And sleep apnea isn't a fullapnea.
It can be upper airwayresistance syndrome.
Where the airway narrows, itcan be a high apnea that's more
narrowing.
A lot of very healthy, thin,fit women suffer from this
slight narrowing, this upperairway resistance syndrome, and
then of course, it gets worsewith menopause.

(13:58):
But remember, when the airwaydoes collapse and let's say
you've been breathing throughyour mouth for four or five
hours at night which is verypossible, most of us are doing
that the airway is very dry, themucosa has lost its lubrication
and if the airway collapsesduring an inhale, then it's more
likely to stick to itself,right, because there's no saliva

(14:18):
there, and so it's less likelyto undo itself.
And then your airway is you'refighting for air at that point
to undo itself.
And then your airway is you'refighting for air at that point.
So that's one of the reasons.
Uh, mouth taping works so well.
It's because it's keeping theairway humidified.
The, the nasal passage, is thisis my favorite way to explain
it.
I mean, here's the nose, thiswhole system here, and with the

(14:40):
tongue in place, let's say thelips are open here.
That's the airway through themouth, which looks like the
better system for filtering,humidifying, bringing in air,
slowing down the rate of air,the baffles of the conchite here
and all that I mean.
It's clearly when you look atit, anyone looks at it, they go.
Yeah, nose breathing makessense.
It totally makes sense, but mostof us are not doing it so

(15:03):
that's all mouth taping does.
Is that it kind of primes you,for it forces the issue Again.
It doesn't work for everyone.
If you can't breathe throughyour nose, you can't breathe
through your nose.

Michele Folan (15:14):
We're going to take a quick break when we get
back.
I want to talk about rootcanals and cavitations.
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Okay, we are back.
Before we went on break, Imentioned that I want to talk
about root canals andcavitations.
Hearing a lot more about thisand the problems with these
cavitations that maybe yourregular dentist isn't able to,

(16:24):
or really looking for thesecavitations, can you talk a
little bit about what's going onthere and why we should be
concerned about our root canals?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (16:33):
I'll start with root canals, because they
are slightly different so, butboth do fall in the same
category.
There's a lot of fear mongeringgoing on with both, and there
are a lot of dentists that comeout of dental school and again,
I'm not painting this picturefor every dentist, but I'm just
saying what I'm seeing a lot ofis there are a lot of these
dentists, most of the dentists Iwould say all of them are in
debt, a lot of debt.

(16:54):
It is the most expensiveeducation you can get in the
world for a variety of reasons,and it's hard for them to get
into private practice.
So they're an associate for awhile and bread and butter
dentistry isn't as lucrative aseveryone thinks it is, and so
what they do is they specializein something.
And you can specialize inthings and charge beyond what

(17:15):
insurance requires, becauseyou're doing things like
functional dentistry, dentalmedicine, which I specialized in
the last half of my career.
I mean, these are things thatare kind of on the outer edge
and it allows you to.
I could argue that it makes youa better dentist and you're
able to treat the patient forroot causes, but it also allows

(17:35):
you to treat beyond whatinsurance designates that you
get paid for and that isappealing to dentists.
So I see a lot of dentists thatgo from being just a bread and
butter dentist to a cavitationdentist or a root canal
specialist Although you can goto dental school and become a
specialist and that's somethingdifferent.
But there are a lot of dentiststhat just specialize in root

(17:57):
canals and maybe a different wayof doing it, a better way of
doing it, but of course theprices go up and sometimes they
take advantage of that.
So the fear mongering comes in,where all root canals are bad.
90% of people have cavitations.
Both of those statements arefalse.
I mean, we've got lots ofevidence and scientific, we've

(18:17):
got a track record of successand, like an old wives tale,
that's what I categorize thisfear mongering, as there is some
truth to it.
So a poorly done root canal cankill you.
It can cause sepsis.
When it goes wrong it's prettybad.
It's hard to know if it isgoing wrong.

(18:38):
It is hard to do a root canalproperly.
Be careful who does your rootcanal.
There are a lot of functionaldentists out there that are
doing it differently than wewere taught in dental school.
Just because we can do a betterjob of it.
They're using lasers and ozoneand they're using 3D x-rays.
So if you have a root canal,don't panic.
Don't get all your teeth takenout and put in implants, because

(18:58):
implants are not perfect.
You can get gum disease aroundan implant, you can get bone
loss around an implant and thenyou lose that implant and then
it's hard to put another implantin.
So don't go too far down therabbit hole.
Move slowly, get second andthird opinions and do your
research.
But anyone that is absolute andall root canals are bad.
Or 90% of people havecavitations.

(19:20):
I've heard 80%.
That's not true.
It's the opposite.
A cavitation is a kind of aremnant of an extracted tooth
that was done incorrectly.
You're supposed to debride thesocket.
You're not supposed to leavethe epithelial tissue in there
or anything.
That's infected, because itwill remain, even though the
bone tries to fill in and thetissue covers it.

(19:42):
This can happen after wisdomteeth, and any extraction for
that matter, and that becomesinfected.
And then you get this littlepus pocket for the lack of a
better clinical term and thatcan wreak havoc, and so you have
to go in there and clean it out.
And but the cost of thesesurgeries and then the things
that they add on to it, theseprotocols of vitamin c, iv,

(20:03):
drips, and I'm not saying that'sbad, but it's become a whole
industry.
So again, if you truly do havea cavitation, get it taken care
of by someone who's not jumpingup and down and lecturing
worldwide and saying 90% is bad.
Get them all taken out.
Just be very careful.
Like any profession, there arepeople that get a little carried

(20:25):
away.
Let me just put it that way andbe diplomatic.
So get second and thirdopinions.
I would not retreat a rootcanal.
Some endodontists will do that,but they will tell you a good
one will tell you it's a 50%likelihood that it will work.
But a properly done root canalcan last a lifetime.
And then, if you do have a rootcanal, get it checked every
four or five years.
Get a three dimensional x-ray.
Look for bone loss, look forleakage.
Have your hygienist every sixmonths Tap on that tooth If it's

(20:48):
tender in any way.
That could be a sign thatthere's some inflammation and
you want to jump on that beforethat tooth goes bad.

Michele Folan (20:56):
Most dentists have the capability of doing the
3D x-ray correct.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (21:00):
Not really.
It's an expensive machine, Iwould say that's a good question
.
I had one in the latter part ofmy career.
It was very expensive, but Ithink it's probably 50% to 70%.
Maybe I could be wrong, itcould be less.
I mean I don't know, but it'snot everyone and certainly a

(21:21):
rural dentist.
Or if it's a big clinic andthey know what they're doing and
they're sharing the overhead,then financially that's a great
move, much like hospitalorganizations do A lot of
dentists under one roof andthey're sharing one unit or they
lease it and they pay a kind ofa wholesale cost per x-ray.
Those are all great models butI would say it's important if

(21:42):
you like your dentist, great,but make sure you have you can
go to a lab.
You can have your dentist refer, you write a prescription to a
dental x-ray lab and have thatdone.
So there are many differentways of getting it.
So if you really like yourdentist, he doesn't have one,
don't leave him or her for thatreason.
Just say you know what, by theway, my favorite dentist, please

(22:03):
, if I need a cone beam x-raythen CBT we call it then there's
a lab over here.
Just refer me, I'll get theresults.
They get sent to you and we candiscuss it.
If he can't read the x-ray, youcould do teledentistry and have
it read online.
But have access to it and checkyour root canals.

(22:24):
Even though you think you'redoing fine, always follow up.
It's like anything.
It's like a prosthetic hip.
You're getting it checked.

Michele Folan (22:32):
Yeah, that's great advice.
I really appreciate thatbecause that's again, that's not
something that we hear on theregular.
So thanks for that.
Your book, the Eight Hour SleepParadox, dives into a lot of
the things we were talking aboutwith sleep and sleep apnea.
What inspired you to write thebook?

(22:54):
Because I think this sleepdisordered breathing is way more
common than we realize.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (23:02):
Right, pretty straightforward.
I was suffering from sleepapnea and I didn't know it.
I was in my early 40s, I was ata low BMI, I was skiing in the
back country for six, seven days, digging holes into the snow
and hiking and mountain bikingfor four or five hours.
Five 6,000 vertical feet ofmountain biking.

(23:22):
I was feeling great right.
But my wife and I, for the firsttime in a long time, were
spending the night in a hotelroom.
We were dropping our oldest offat college in California and
the next morning In a hotel roomwe were dropping our oldest off
at college in California andthe next morning they were
beating me with pillows, allthree of them, my three
daughters, going Dad, what wasall that noise?

(23:42):
And to make a very long,interesting story short, which
is the first chapter in the book, it turned out that it was my
wife.
She was doing most of thesnoring.
Again, she's very physicallyfit, petite.
She was the one who had the AHIof 34 and a half, that's 34
times per hour that she stoppedbreathing, and I had an AHI of
12.
And I, literally we both didn'tknow anything about sleep apnea

(24:06):
.
We were ignorant.

Michele Folan (24:07):
She's in the healthcare industry, right?
I mean, it was like snoring.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (24:11):
Everyone snores.
When you get to be old, yousnore, and so that flipped on
its side.
And now, of course, I wrote inthe book snoring is everything.
If you're snoring, your airwayis collapsing, it's touching.
What else do you need to know?
And it's not cute, it's notfunny, it's not humorous, so
it's a great way.

(24:32):
I mean, that book has a lot ofchecklists in it what to look
for, and sleep apnea issomething that creeps up on you.
The other reason I wrote thebook is because medicine doesn't
really do a good job oftreating it, and that's where my
wife and I were like Mark, youneed to get this out of there.
So, with the help of mydaughter, who's the other half
of Ask the Dentist, we set forthto write this book.

(24:52):
It's self-published, it's thenumber one book in its category.
I think it's orthodontics onAmazon.
It's eight years old now, Ithink, and all the comments
basically are.
I mean, it's not a brilliantbook, it's not well-written
prose and all that, but it'svery logical and it tries to
simplify the whole process.
Because if I'm confused, if mywife is confused again in the

(25:13):
Silicon Valley access to greathealthcare, lots of roadblocks I
teach people how to tell alittle white lie with some of
the tests so that they get thesleep study that's on the
Epworth test.
I mean things like that, littletips, and so just waiting, that
whole kind of maze ofdysfunction and trying to reduce

(25:34):
utilization.
Now the cost of the sleep studyis very expensive because you
spend the night in the clinic.
It's $3,000, $4,000.
And then from that I became veryfascinated with the whole thing
, studied it with the AmericanAcademy of Dental Sleep Medicine
, spent five, six years justdiving deep in it.
It was fascinating because Iwas curing myself and my wife,

(25:55):
so we both wear oral appliances.
Our AHIs are one or two insteadof 34 and a half.
Mine was 12.
I even went to in Palo Alto aENT who was very, very good.
He removed a sialolith, asaliva stone, in my saliva gland
and nobody else was able to doit.

(26:16):
He did it, he was very talented.
But he said it's an AHI of 12.
Don't worry about it.
Well, that's not what I wasbeginning to understand through
all the research when I wentfrom 12 to zero with this oral
appliance just supporting thelower jaw from collapsing back
when I'm sleeping on my back mylife changed oh my goodness, I
don't nap anymore.
I'm up at 5.30, 6 in the morning.

(26:38):
One of the unusual effects isthat I went to bed earlier.
I was a night owl but because Iwas sleeping better, for some
reason my circadian rhythms gotbetter, my appetite went down,
more energy, you know.
I mean then I started mouthtaping.
Anyway, I mean it was out offrustration with the system,
both on the dental side.
Dentistry is up to speed now.

(26:59):
In fact I would argue thatdentistry is.
We are the specialists in sleepapnea by default, because we
can see the prodromal signs ofsleep apnea, where medicine kind
of waits until you come up andthe patient says I was involved
in a car accident, my kids werein back and I fell asleep at the
wheel.
I mean that's what they waitfor.
I mean it's just ridiculous.
Or cardiovascular disease, orobesity, metabolic syndromes,

(27:24):
all the comorbidities of sleepapnea why?

Michele Folan (27:27):
wait that long?
Well, because, because they,everybody thinks you're going to
have to get fit with this bigold, clunky CPAP machine.
Yep, but what you're saying isthat doesn't necessarily have to
be your first line of defense.
It can be an oral appliance,which, by the way, my husband
got from his dentist.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (27:46):
Good.

Michele Folan (27:47):
And we have to replace them very often because
he bites through them.
But I figure we're saving histeeth too.
But listen, you know, if youcan get by with the oral
appliance and some mouth taping,my gosh, do it right.
And let's talk a little bitabout the stress on the heart,

(28:08):
right?
I don't think people thinkabout that.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (28:09):
Yeah, I mean it all boils down to.
Well, let's talk about the mostobvious thing.
When you stop breathing, goinginto hypoxia, your sympathetic
tone goes way up in the middleof the night.
It should be the opposite.
When you're sleeping, your bodyis designed to go into that
parasympathetic state whereyou're relaxed, your breathing
rate is maybe 12 times perminute.
I mean maybe 12 times perminute.

(28:33):
I mean you're relaxed, all themuscles are loose and flaccid.
You're dreaming, you're in deepsleep, but that's the preferred
state of sleep.
But if you're not getting enoughoxygen, your body is in panic
mode.
I mean that's why theywaterboard people.
That's one of the mosteffective ways of getting the
answers.
I mean, because you arepanicking, you are near death.

(28:54):
That is a primal drive tobreathe.
We can live without food for amonth.
We can live without water forthree, four days.
We can't live more than a fewminutes without air and that's
why that is such a big deal.
I mean it really gets theadrenal glands going and it's
fearful and it ties intoclaustrophobia as well.

(29:18):
I mean, and these are all very,very base instincts of survival
and the more you activate that,even during the day, you're
going to be anxious, it justcarries over, and that of course
can affect the heart from aphysiological standpoint but
also from a behavioralstandpoint.
I mean you're starving, yourmuscles of oxygen and also your

(29:40):
heart will enlarge, and thenyou've got microvessel issues
where you're not dilating asmuch and maybe you're trying to
conserve blood volume, so yourkidneys are working over time.
I mean there's so much thatgoes on.
There's another thing with apneais you start getting a reflux.

(30:01):
There's a mechanism there andthat's one of the early signs
that a dentist can see.
He can see the acid in themouth.
It's a very characteristicdishing of the back teeth and
the sides of the top of theteeth and also the sides.
It's called acid erosion of theback teeth and the sides of the
top of the teeth and also thesides is called acid erosion of
the teeth.
And when I see that as apractitioner and many dentists
are trained now they right awaysuspect that the hiatal hernia,

(30:24):
the regurgitation of stomachacids which can cause esophageal
cancer over time, that it'srelated to apneas.
Uh, scalp, tongue, uh, manydifferent things.
So so it's all connected.
Uh, alzheimer's, uh, liverdysfunction, I mean without that
first stage of deep sleep whichis when your liver kind of

(30:44):
shuts down if everything's goingwell and turns on itself and
does what it does for the bodyon itself.
Uh, the heart needs to relaxall night long.
It's a muscle, it needs to rest.
The brain needs to shrink alittle bit at night, and that
also occurs in deep sleep and indoing so, that lymphatic system
basically a lymphatic system,but because there are no muscles

(31:05):
up there, it drains all thetoxins differently by shrinking
the brain a little bit.
So sleep is, oh my God, weabuse it, we take it for granted
.

Michele Folan (31:16):
We really do, and I'm guilty of that.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (31:18):
I did that for a long time.
I had great adrenal glands.
I would stay up late at night,get up early in the morning and
think nothing of it.

Michele Folan (31:24):
Man's running on cortisol, and yeah, we talk a
lot about cortisol in midlife.
You know what, though I justthought about this in midlife?
You know what, though I justthought about this?
Many of my listeners havegrandchildren, and there is an
issue too, with children snoringand mouth breathing.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (31:45):
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Sure, there are a lot of earlyhabits that need to be looked at
.
Physicians won't see it, it'sreally in the realm of dentists.
A lot of moms will know this.
I'll put in a good word fordads, or some dads that do too
Pacifier use, tongue posture,tongue tie, processed food diets
I mean, if you're squeezingyour food out into a little into
their mouth directly or into alittle glass, I mean, that's not

(32:07):
what our kids need to eat,something with substance.
It helps develop the width ofthe jaw and all of this
contributes to mouth and airwayissues later in life.
If your child is well, if you'rea grandparent which I am, and
of course I noticed a lot and alot of both undergoing expansion
of the jaws, they had tongueties removed.

(32:29):
One tongue tie surgery was notdone well and my daughter and
son-in-law came back and said wedid it, dad, we did it,
everything's good.
I looked at it, I go.
Nope, they missed it.
It was supposed to your tonguetie.
You have to go get it doneagain.
They've had myofunctionaltherapy, but if that, in a
nutshell, as we develop, babiesare kind of like those Star Trek

(32:51):
aliens big, big heads.
They're bald and they got thesetiny little chins right.
No teeth.
They look edentulous, areedentulous, they look like old
men or old women, and so thehead develops a little bit.
There's fusing of all theplates and everything, but the
lower face really expands anddrops and moves forward and
that's kind of the airway box.

(33:13):
Sorry, that's the mouth box.
The airway box is behind it,and then there's the nasal box
and if this airway box doesn'twiden properly by chewing hard
foods, by breastfeeding properly, by working hard, it's kind of
like here in Napa Valley, thegood wine grapes are the ones
that are stressed.

Michele Folan (33:31):
Right.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (33:32):
You know, if you overwater them or if they're
in soft soil, I mean, but it'sbetter if the grapes are planted
in rocks and volcanic soil, andyou wouldn't think that would
work, but it does.
So that's what makes that boxdevelop properly, so that the
airway box and the nasal box isfully developed and that way you
won't be seeing sleep apnealater in life.
I mean, I'm slightlyretronathic.

(34:02):
My wife had a tongue tie, mygrandkids had tongue ties, two
of my children had tongue tiesand we all have to some degree
airway issues that we're eitherremedying early on, before the
face is fully developed by agenine or 90% developed, or we're
dealing with it as adults andit's a lot of work but for some
reason we're just not as welldeveloped as our ancestors and
we have that record.
Every time we dig someone upit's like, oh my God, that's the

(34:23):
way we're supposed to look.
But one of the leading causesof death in children is choking.
And actually elderly after age65, I think it's number four,
yeah, so my wife and I arealways like no talking with your
mouth full when we're at home,because I don't want to have to
give a Heimlich maneuver andfail at it or vice versa.

(34:44):
You know, I mean it's so ourairway is tiny.
I did a early on in my wholesocial media thing.
I was still a dentist inSilicon Valley at the Flint
Center.
This is where Steve Jobs wouldalways give his big talks.
It was to a high school andmaybe college audience.
I gave a TEDx talk and it wasonly 13, 14 minutes, but I was

(35:08):
just trying to impress upon themhow important this little
airway is.
I had a little tapioca straw inmy pocket and I didn't pull it
out until midway through.
But people were wondering whydoes he have a tapioca straw in
his pocket?
And that's basically the sizeof what your whole destiny is.
Is is kind of based on.
I mean, when you eat ahamburger it's going through

(35:29):
that tapioca straw.
When you're breathing it goesthrough that.

Michele Folan (35:32):
So anyway, Chew your food.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (35:34):
Yes.

Michele Folan (35:42):
Chew your food.
Chew chewy food, yeah.
And speaking of kids, I knowthere's been a lot of
controversy out there aboutfluoride.
Where do you stand on the wholefluoride issue?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (35:48):
An easy one.
I haven't changed my stancesince I was about 17 years old
and that was well before we hadany good data on it.
It just didn't feel right backthen.
I was kind of a nerdy guy inhigh school.
Biochemistry and biochemistryat University of British
Columbia, along with an artdegree that's another story and
it always didn't make sense tome.
And now we have the data.

(36:09):
There was a seven-year lawsuitthat just concluded against the
epa and they lost the lawsuit.
Uh, bpa lost.
Uh there is evidence now thatingesting fluoride whether it's
a mom before conception, because, remember, she's storing
fluoride in the bones and thenwhen baby comes along, baby will

(36:30):
take calcium from the bonesalong with the fluoride ingest
that that affects the fetus'sbrain.
Also infants, when they drink alot of fluoridated water.
That also lowers their IQ, andso that was a seven-year
discussion back and forthbetween it wasn't politics like
it is now.
It was a valid discussion withexperts very few dentists,

(36:53):
mostly physicians, researchers,phds, statisticians, the
government, ntb, cdc I mean thelist goes on and they won the
lawsuit.
It is a concern.
So I'm just glad I had thatnotion Again.
For me it was a lesser of twoevil argument and I raised my
daughter's on distilled waterand added the minerals back

(37:15):
without the fluoride and I thinkit really did help them.
They would literally go to afriend's house with a water
bottle and when they ran out ofwater and the mom or dad would
be like, are you thirsty?
They go no, no, no, I can'tdrink that water.
And they were like huh, why?
It was like what's wrong withyou?

Michele Folan (37:30):
Well, and that was kind of before.
It was cool, your kids weretrailblazers.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (37:37):
Right right.

Michele Folan (37:45):
So that's good to know and I want everybody to
hear that.
I think the other big one thatis in our lives daily is
mouthwash.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (37:49):
Oh, my God yeah.

Michele Folan (37:51):
Did I just open a big can of worms?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (37:53):
You did.
Yeah, yeah, oh, my God, don't,don't get me started.
I just don't understand whywe've been on this bandwagon for
so long.
I'm talking about theprofession.
Corporations, of course, havebeen selling us this, this, this
product.
It's detrimental to the oralmicrobiome and the oral
microbiome is everything when itcomes to oral health and

(38:13):
systemic health.
It's that simple.
So if you're killing the oralmicrobiome and the oral
microbiome is everything when itcomes to oral health and
systemic health it's that simple.
So if you're killing the oralmicrobiome twice a day and the
studies have been around since2005 uh, lots of recent ones big
one in 2015 that support thenotion that if you for for the
cohorts were drinking, healthycohorts using mouthwash twice a

(38:33):
day elevated blood pressurewithin three to six days.
Interesting, take away themouthwash, blood pressure comes
back down.
There are other studies wherepeople that are on medication
for high blood pressure, evendropping the mouthwash can
sometimes not always alleviatethe need for medication.
Now we have studies again.
This relates to the wholeequation tongue scraping can

(38:59):
actually lower your bloodpressure.
That's assuming you're notusing mouthwash.
So a tongue scraper, comparedto a non-tongue scraper, can
lower their blood pressure.
It's because you're helpingnourish and support those bugs
that actually produce the NO gaswhich lowers your blood
pressure.
So we've got lots of data on it.
Yet we still use it.
We still think it's a panacea,for you know, it's kind of like

(39:21):
it's that whole thing about wewant to be thin before we're fit
.
We want white teeth before wefix the rotten teeth.
I mean, it's the same thing.
We just want our breath tosmell good for 10, 15 minutes,
like a bomb went off in yourmouth menthol, mint, whatever.
So these products should not besold.
In fact, I think thesecompanies should be sued or they

(39:43):
should be fined, and theseproducts need to be or have a
warning label, whatever.
I'm just blown away that we'vebeen doing it for so long.
Dentistry is part of this.

Michele Folan (39:53):
Well, and you know, we've all been to the
dentist and done the rinse.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (39:57):
Yeah.

Michele Folan (39:59):
It was scope or Listerine or something, and that
cup is blue, and so, yeah, Ihad this discussion with my
husband before we startedrecording, because he still, on
occasion, will use someListerine, and I'm like I'm
going to tell you right now.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (40:22):
Dr Burhenne is going to tell you not to do
that, so he's like well, youreport back.
The irony of again thismouthwash thing gets me very
excited.
The mouth gets abused.
The irony of that mouthwash,very strong antiseptic rinse
what came during COVID and wewere the practitioners and the
hygienists were protectingthemselves.
That makes you more susceptibleto COVID because you're
knocking down the bugs thatproduce NO gas.

(40:42):
No gas in your lungs canliterally deactivate the COVID
virus on contact.
We got it so wrong during COVID,but anyway, yeah, don't use
mouthwash.
A lot of people are just like Ineed to rinse with something
saltwater water, alkaline water,oil pulling.
You know, there's so manyalternatives.

Michele Folan (41:02):
Yeah, let's talk.
Wait, oil pulling, let's talkabout that.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (41:06):
Very popular.
People love it, they get it.
They have read about it.
It is based on multigenerational, thousands of years
of clinical data Ayurvedicmedicine.
Now I've modified it a littlebit.
I will oil pull first thing inthe morning if I'm a little dry,
but I use MCT oil and I mix alittle CoQ10 in there, maybe
some minerals, and I only do itfor two to three minutes.

(41:27):
I use the MCT oil becausestraight oil pulling with
coconut is kind of messy anddifficult to do.
But the coconut oil is quitestrong.
I mean it does saponify, itthins the biofilm, I think too
aggressively, it almost workstoo well.
That's why I use MCT oil.
It's a gentler effect and it'seasier to use.
It's a refined version ofcoconut oil.

Michele Folan (41:46):
Do you just, yeah , mtc oil right?
Do you just gargle it like youwould?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (41:57):
just gargle it like you would.
Yes, MCT oil, I take a sipbefore bed, 20 minutes before
bed, because that gives me someketones during the middle of
night and it prevents bloodsugar levels from dropping,
which can be can lead to anarousal.
In other words, it'll wake youup.
A lot of my patients have that.
They're breathing well, buttheir blood sugar level drops at
4am and they're wide awake.
Part of that is what they eatand how late they eat and all of
that but the MCT.

(42:19):
So I take a sip in the morning.
I'm lazy, I don't do thetablespoon anymore, I just take
a sip out of the bottle.
It's marked in the cupboard.
I take a sip and I, as I'mrunning around the house in my
bathrobe, maybe closing somewindows or feeding the feral cat
outside or whatever, I swishfor two to three minutes with
the MCT oil and I spit it out inthe sink.
It's so much easier and thatreally gives you a headstart.

(42:42):
It basically restarts the oralmicrobiome, especially if you
had a dry mouth.
If you had a dry mouth, you'vegot a dysbiosis.
The biome isn't doing well.

Michele Folan (42:50):
Okay, all right, I had not heard how you do the
oil pulling, so that was good toknow.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (42:57):
Yeah, the conventional way of oil pulling
is kind of messy and you can'tspit out into the sink it could
gum up the sink.
You have to scoop out thecoconut oil and you have to
soften it.
Some people microwave it.
I mean it's a lot of work andlet's face it in our day and age
, if it's a lot of work it'sjust not going to get done.

Michele Folan (43:15):
No, no, shit, Right, okay, I want to talk
about your, your product line.
It's called FYGG, it's for yourgood guys, which I love.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (43:25):
Feed your good guys.

Michele Folan (43:26):
It is for your good guys.
Feed your good guys Feed yourgood guys.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (43:29):
That is the main principle.

Michele Folan (43:36):
Yeah, is the main principle.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (43:38):
Feed the mouth, don't nuke it and are
these hydroxyapatite-basedproducts?
Then they are.
I mean, Dr Stacey and I and mydaughter, we had lots of time to
think about what we wanted todo and hydroxyapatite is clearly
the way to go.
We are mineral deficient.
It is the same mineral that isin your teeth and it needs to be
in your saliva so that whenthey're in solution up against
each other, when the tooth getsdecalcified, you've got this

(44:00):
movement of minerals of the samemineral, the biomimetic mineral
, the same natural mineralthat's in your teeth.
And then, of course, when youeat something like a goldfish
cracker, then you have the lossof minerals from the tooth back
into saliva.
So you do have to replenish thesaliva with that
nanohydroxyapatite.
And there's only really onegood version of
nanohydroxyapatite and that isout of the EU.

(44:21):
And that is the first thing wewent to.
We went to the best source fornanohydroxyapatite.
And a lot of people are a littleconcerned about the word nano.
I got it yesterday.
Some people still think orbelieve that it was banned or
they're being told it was bannedand it's never been banned
anywhere in the world.
But it was under review, alongwith all the other nanoproducts,

(44:43):
again by a committee in Europe.
It would never happen here inthe US and this is a committee
that is just very high-levelresearchers and scientists and
they are free of any bias andthey're not on the payroll of
any corporations Again, verymuch unlike the FDA and what we
have here.
And they were just concernedand this is only in the cosmetic

(45:04):
realm.
So they did ban titaniumdioxide from sunblock and from
toothpaste Believe it was inthere.
They banned titanium zinctoothpaste Believe it was in
there.
They banned titanium zinc sorry, nano zinc, nano silver.
They did ban the undigestiblenano products.
They did not ban and theyactually have now given the
recommendation of what is safeand that's what we have in our

(45:26):
toothpaste.
And again, this is a productthat was developed by NASA in
the 50s.
It's not even the approvedversion of it.
This is nothing new.
It's been in use in Japan nowfor over 50 years, and now it's
here in the US and it works sowell.

Michele Folan (45:44):
All right, thank you for that, because I think
it's great, since we're, youknow, maybe trying to get away
from using fluoride.
What else should we be using tohelp with our tooth enamel at
this point in life, because weall are starting to lose enamel,
naturally, because we're inmidlife, right, okay, right,
that's a good one.
I want to talk a little bitabout your podcast.

(46:06):
Oh Right, it's called Ask theDentist.
Did you know you're in the top1.5% globally.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (46:13):
Someone told me that I don't keep track and
we've been on hold for a littlebit.
This summer we're going tostart up again slightly
different format, a little bithigher production values.
I may even go kind of artsy,black and white, who knows.
Anyway, thank you for that.
It's a great way to connect.
People still are going throughthe database of the old and we

(46:34):
didn't even really.
We have great followers.
We have great people that arewith us at Ask the Dentist and
it's just, we have ournewsletter.
We have 100,000 people on ournewsletter.
Open rate of 52%.
I get feedback from them.
Sometimes I reply.
It's just I get goosebumps justtalking about the people that
are part of our community.
It really is amazing.
So the podcast I've heard thatbefore.

(46:56):
I've never looked at thenumbers.
I think it's easy becausethere's not much on oral health.
I think we're kind of unique.
There are a few, but it'smostly directed towards other
dentists and I've been on thosepodcasts.
It's more like you know, ifyou're a dentist, what's the
road to success, you know, andthat kind of thing,

(47:17):
entrepreneurship and all that.
But no, this is really for thepeople and just kind of talking
about new research and so, andour newsletter has kind of
carried us through the summerand we have we just put up our
database of all newsletters andpeople are diving into that now
and the newsletters are fun.
They're very easy to understand, one or two pages long, and

(47:38):
it's all the new stuff that youneed to know about.
We did a thing on female health, a two-part series recently,
stuff that people don'tunderstand.
There's all these new studieswe're going to.
There's a new term calledP-cycling, p-e-e recycling your
urine.
They're able now to pull nanohydroxyapatite from our urine.

(48:01):
We're going to see that intoothpaste soon.
I will warn everyone before weput it into our toothpaste, if
we ever do.
Okay.

Michele Folan (48:06):
thanks for the heads up.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (48:08):
I mean it's just and that study in August
that just came out that I thinkwe referenced early on in our
conversation today that maybe Ididn't, but it's that aggressive
, successful periodontal carethat's going to see a
periodontist and getting yourgum scraped and gum surgery and

(48:28):
all that it slows downcalcifications of the artery and
cardiac disease.
I mean, again, it's always backand forth.
It's you know, people thatfloss more don't get heart
disease.
People with heart disease havegum disease.
I mean the connection's there.
So it's something new every day.
It's amazing.

Michele Folan (48:46):
Yeah, it's so fascinating and you signed a new
book deal.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (48:51):
I did.
Very, very excited about that.

Michele Folan (48:53):
And what's this book going to be about?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (48:55):
Something out of the blue.
They approached us and mydaughter and I are going to
write it, probably along with acollaborator, and we are right
now in the throes of it.
We've got a lot of chapters inplace already.
It's going to be, hopefully, anentertaining read on oral
health and how it's part of thewhole human condition

(49:19):
historically, politically,physiologically, cosmetically
and, of course, with all thebits and details of the stuff
we've been talking about today.
So I'm just hoping to be ableto write a book that will put
oral health on the map in frontof every conversation health
conversation.

Michele Folan (49:37):
Yeah.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (49:37):
Which it isn't always, it's always.
You know, I tried to lose 10pounds last summer and I
couldn't do it.
Or it's the trivial stuff, or Ijust got diagnosed with thyroid
cancer.
What do I do?
I mean, those are valid things,but what part of your oral
health led to that thyroidcancer?

Michele Folan (49:55):
I mean, that's what we want to bring to light
and bring to the surface, soyeah, and I think it's part of
the longevity puzzle that getsoverlooked, and we're all about
longevity on this podcast, andthat's why I wanted you here
today.
I have one personal kind ofquestion for you, though.

(50:16):
What is one of your healthnon-negotiables?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (50:19):
Oh boy.

Michele Folan (50:20):
I know there are many.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (50:21):
Yeah, there are many.
I mean, the first thing thatcomes to mind is sleep and my
oral health, and I don't haveperfect oral health.
It's been a challenge.
I grew up in San Francisco, butI was not seeing a dentist on a
regular basis.
My dad was self-employed.
My mother was a housewife.
Later, she started working, ofcourse, but it was sporadic and

(50:46):
not ideal.
But since I've been followingwhat I preach, I haven't had any
issues no decay, no bleedinggums, good oral health, no
halitosis, no bad breath, notonsil stones, all of those
things.
None of these saliva stones.

(51:07):
That was uncomfortable, thatwas a calcification of the duct
of the submandibular gland andthat would block it.
So when I saw food, I'd get alittle lump here within seconds
because the saliva gland wouldproduce saliva but it couldn't
get out.
And that was probably because Iwasn't getting enough K2.
I wasn't eating enough fattyfoods and meats and fermented

(51:29):
products.
K2 is crucial to shepherdingwhere calcium goes in the body.
So it's probably sleep and oralhealth, but it's other things
too.
It's interacting with people,it's doing what we're doing
right now.
I mean there's so many piecesto the puzzle and so it's very
hard to say.
I mean, if I was stranded on adesert island, I would figure

(51:50):
out some way to get my stereosystem and record collection
there and I'd be happy.
And I would just out some wayto get my stereo system and
record collection there and Iwould be happy, you know, and I
would just pull coconuts off thetrees.
I mean, it depends, so anyway.

Michele Folan (52:01):
One last thing when can listeners find you and
your podcast and your work?

Dr. Mark Burhenne (52:06):
So you mentioned the podcast, the
newsletter, the website.
It's all Ask the Dentist.
Just search for that.
The book on sleep you wouldsearch for just by typing in my
last name into Amazon.
It'll come up.
The 8-Hour Sleep Paradox.
The new book is with apublisher.
I'm sure you'll hear about it.
Certainly all of our followerson Instagram will hear about it,

(52:28):
tiktok as well.
But I mean typically if you'reinto oral health and you start
digging deep and I wouldencourage you to do that online
and be careful of the things wetalked about earlier.
You know the there's a lot ofmisinformation out there, but
our name will come up.
You'll see my face and and I'mwill be very happy that that's
the case and I would just reachout to us.

(52:48):
I can't answer everything.
We get overloaded with so manydifferent questions but people
that do do get a a very honestanswer and it can be very short,
of course, but at least itsteers them in the right
direction.
So, but I would start probablywith the newsletter.
That's right now our hot itembecause it just expands that
world very quickly for someonewho has had issues.

(53:08):
A lot of our listenership arewomen between the ages of 35 and
75, and they are very concernedand maybe they're missing some
teeth or they're suffering fromsogrance, dry mouth, menopause.
There are things you can do, nomatter what age you are.
There are things you can do tomake things a little bit easier.

Michele Folan (53:27):
Absolutely.
This was delightful.
Dr Mark Burhenne, Thank you somuch for being here today.

Dr. Mark Burhenne (53:33):
Thank you for inviting me.
I appreciate it.

Michele Folan (53:37):
Thank you for listening.
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