September 30, 2025 • 52 mins
What’s the Real Cost of That Evening Glass of Wine? A Sobriety Journey with Kate Vitela
Kate Vitela, a registered nurse, shares her powerful journey from physical alcohol dependence to over seven years of sobriety. Her story isn’t defined by a dramatic rock-bottom moment but by a gradual awakening to how daily drinking eroded her sleep, career, and relationships. Now, Kate offers a hopeful perspective on recovery through neuroplasticity—the brain’s incredible ability to rewire itself and form new neural pathways. “Our brains can reorganize,” she says. “We can completely transform as human beings.” This challenges the outdated notion that addiction is a lifelong disease requiring constant management.
In this candid conversation, we dive into what that evening glass of wine means for midlife women. For many, it’s more than a drink—it’s a rebellious act of self-care, a boundary between meeting others’ needs and claiming a moment for themselves. But Kate reveals the hidden costs: even one drink disrupts REM sleep, circadian rhythm, and hormones, far beyond just calories. Host, Michele Folan, shares a personal experiment, contrasting a sleep score of 62 after bourbon with 91-94 on alcohol-free nights.
Kate doesn’t judge moderation but offers a bold reframe: “Alcohol is ethanol—a poison. Moderation is just microdosing poison.” She argues that midlife is the perfect time to rethink your relationship with alcohol. With greater motivation and a clearer sense of what doesn’t work, midlife women are uniquely positioned to embrace change.
Whether you’re sober-curious, exploring moderation, or questioning alcohol’s role in your life, this episode invites you to uncover what drinking is truly costing you—and what freedom could look like. Through her work with women, Kate shows that true empowerment comes from self-care practices that nourish without requiring recovery.
Listen now to discover how to reclaim your power, improve your sleep, and embrace a life free from alcohol’s grip.
You can find Kate Vitela at https://www.instagram.com/rewiredsober/
Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rewired-sober/id1781739552 or wherever you listen
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🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health. If you’d like me at your next event, let’s connect!
OsteoCollective osteoporosis resources and community link: https://app.osteocollective.com/invitation?code=BE98G9
Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MicheleFolan (00:00):
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(00:45):
too.
Today's episode took anunexpected turn, and I kind of
loved it.
My guests challenged me a biton the idea of moderating
alcohol, and honestly, it feltlike a mini counseling session
right here on the mic.
But I don't mind at all.
I welcome guests who bringtheir fire and push me to
reflect.
(01:06):
Here's where I stand.
I understand that for manypeople, moderation simply isn't
workable.
But for me, I can have a drinkor two on occasion and leave it
at that.
Case in point, I just got backfrom a girl's trip.
Yes, I had wine, I even had alittle bourbon.
And let me tell you, my sleepwas trashed, I woke up foggy,
(01:29):
dragging through the next daywith a mild headache.
It was such a clear reminder ofwhat alcohol really costs me.
Now that I'm home, I'm rightback to sipping my mocktails and
actually enjoying not drinking.
And here's the thing (01:42):
each trip, each celebration, each of
these little experiments bringsme one step closer to giving up
alcohol altogether.
Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
(02:04):
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Let's talk about the woman whois tired of being tired.
You wake up groggy, draggingyourself through the day because
that glass or two of wine mostevenings robs your sleep and
steals your energy.
(02:25):
Or maybe you're tired of hidingyour drinking, sneaking pours
when no one's watching, orstashing the empties because
you're embarrassed or afraid ofbeing found out.
Maybe there's that naggingshame from being that person at
the party one too many times.
In midlife, alcohol doesn'tjust take the edge off anymore.
It can take your sleep, yourconfidence, and your clarity.
(02:48):
You know it's a problem, youfear that rock bottom moment,
and you know deep down you'reready for change.
My guest today, Kate Vitela,knows the story all too well.
A registered nurse for over 20years, Kate got sober in 2018
and has since dedicated her lifeto helping others rewire their
brains, reclaim their power, andfind freedom and sobriety.
(03:12):
She's the host of the RewiredSober Podcast, a board-certified
psychiatric mental health nurseand recovery coach for women
who are ready to take their lifeback without hitting rock
bottom.
Kate Vitela, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
KateVitela (03:28):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm excited to be here.
MicheleFolan (03:31):
Well, I was on Kate's podcast a while back.
And as we spoke, I thought,yeah, you know what?
She brings such a differentperspective to this topic than
what we've done in the past.
And I think this is really goodtiming.
Honestly, you know, we'rerounding up summer here.
We're going into the fall andthe holidays.
(03:53):
And I think that's kind of atime when people start to really
look at some of theirbehaviors, particularly
drinking, and maybe startreassessing a little bit.
Kate, for those who are new toyou, can you share a little bit
about your story and whatinspired you to create Rewired
Sober?
KateVitela (04:13):
Yeah, thank you for the intro.
I'm Kate Vitela.
I have been a registered nursesince 2001.
And I, like you said, I gotsober in 2018.
And when I was six monthssober, I pivoted my nursing
career to work in mental healthand addiction, psychiatric
nursing, a field of study Inever thought I was gonna go
(04:37):
into.
And uh I've been in that fieldfor the last seven years because
I'm seven and a half yearssober at this at the time of
this recording.
So, you know, over time,research, personal experience,
talking with hundreds of women,you repeat yourself in certain
areas.
You find certain things thatare really important to discuss
(05:00):
and things that really light youup in terms of subjects.
And I got so excited about theconcept of neuroplasticity and
the hope it brings to recovery.
And it just felt like the nextstep, you know, and and it was
kind of bigger than me in somany ways.
I it just one thing led to theother, led to the other, and I
(05:21):
and I ended up here and I Istarted coaching about, I think
it was two years ago.
And you know, I just recentlystarted a podcast, and it just
feels like things are fallinginto place.
Again, it feels bigger than me,but I know I'm right where I'm
meant to be.
MicheleFolan (05:39):
Oh, and doesn't that feel good?
Yeah, you know, and to havethese pivots in midlife and go
at it without a lot of fear, butyou know what?
I shouldn't assume that.
Were you a little scared aboutyou know taking that chance and
shifting your nursing careeraltogether?
KateVitela (05:58):
Absolutely, I was.
And and I want to backtrack alittle bit because I used the
word pivot, and that's a verynice self-compassionate term for
what actually happened.
Well, what was that moment backin 2018?
Yeah, in 2018, that was sort ofthe culmination of all of the
issues from my over decade-longcareer of drinking.
(06:22):
Maybe I think I drank everyday, probably for 10, 15 years.
So I was 38 years old by thattime.
I had been a registered nursefor 17 years, and my drinking
had gotten so bad that it wasinterfering with my work, my
family life, my marriage.
(06:43):
It was really, really bad.
And it and I was physically,physiologically addicted to it.
I could not see my way out froma perspective of, you know, I
didn't know anybody in recovery.
I didn't even know what thatword meant.
I had only seen, you know, AAmeetings in the movies, and I
(07:04):
had been a nurse for a reallylong time, having never talked
about addiction.
Never talked about it.
I worked in cardiology, Iworked in surgeries, I worked in
pharmaceuticals, and it justwasn't, it wasn't on my my brain
ever.
And so by 2018, as my storygoes, I was facing that crucial
(07:26):
part where I knew I had to quitdrinking.
You know, everyone around mewas saying it.
You know, it was coming up withall, you know, all the
consequences.
It was, it was hitting me smackin the face.
I knew there was no other wayout.
But I also didn't know how tolive substance free, like how to
just raw dog it, as you'll say.
(07:46):
Like I did not know how to gothrough life without a crotch,
without something.
So instead of just going, youknow, straight into sobriety, I
started smoking marijuana, likemassive quantities of it.
You know, at 38 years old, it'slike the first time I've ever
tried it.
You can tell I don't even knowwhat I'm talking about because I
say the word marijuana insteadof like a cool term, you know,
(08:09):
like a cool word for pot.
I'm like, it's THC.
But you know, because that wasmy way of saying, okay, I'm
gonna switch my crutch fromalcohol to marijuana, right?
I could not imagine going stonecold sober.
And as you know, nurses, firstresponders, we are not allowed
to imbibe in THC because it'snot federally legal, which makes
(08:32):
me laugh because we arecertainly allowed to imbibe in
alcohol.
Of course.
But I basically got in trouble,and my story is kind of long
and twisted and funky at thispoint.
But I got caught and I tried tothrow a drug screen.
I tried to use fake urine tothrow a drug screen because I
(08:52):
was afraid I was gonna testpositive for THC, which is so
silly now that I look back onit.
But it it put me into amonitoring program for nurses
with substance use issues.
MicheleFolan (09:03):
Okay.
KateVitela (09:03):
And that kind of catapulted me into recovery.
And then, you know, I had totake a break from nursing.
And when I came back intobedside nursing, the field that
made the most sense was psychbecause of what I had been
through personally.
I had this like newfound, youknow, compassion and also
(09:27):
curiosity.
You know, early sobriety piquedso much curiosity for me about
this whole other world of mentalhealth.
MicheleFolan (09:35):
You know, first of all, thank you for bravely
sharing your story becausethat's gotta be hard to admit,
like, hey, I was out of control.
Yeah, this was this was where Iwas at the time.
And then for sticking with it,like you didn't you didn't give
up on on your career.
You wanted to continue on.
(09:55):
And I think that says a lotabout you and your tenacity,
that your tenacity is what gotyou through this, that you
didn't want to give up.
You didn't want to give up onyourself.
KateVitela (10:07):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
There were times I did, youknow, there were times I wanted
to throw in the towel, but itwas it was a one day at a time
thing for a while, you know, uhputting one foot in front of the
other.
I had good support around me.
I am a white, straight ciswoman with financial means.
(10:30):
You know, let's face it, I hadprivilege.
I had parents that helpedsubsidize my rent while I was
getting my shit together.
You know, there's things that Ihave to attribute.
I had a support group.
And yes, I had some tenacityand and some resilience, but I
was not alone.
And so I try to make thatreally clear to people who feel
(10:51):
like they're in hopeless,helpless situations.
I mean, yes, I was able to riseabove all of it, but um, it
took time and support.
MicheleFolan (10:59):
Was there at some point in your your work history
where you were a model as well?
KateVitela (11:05):
Actually, fashion modeling?
MicheleFolan (11:07):
Yeah.
KateVitela (11:07):
Did you were you doing some modeling at some
point too?
Yeah, and that is actually partof my recovery story.
When I got sober, I think I waslike two or three years sober,
I got connected with the editorof the sober curator magazine.
Her name's Elise Bryson.
She lives in the Seattle areanear me.
And I wanted to contribute, butI didn't know, you know, what I
(11:31):
what area I would specializein.
Like I never found myselfparticularly artsy.
And I, you know, I wasn't awriter, I wasn't a photographer.
But one area I I knew a lotabout and I loved was fashion.
So I started blogging a fashioncolumn for the sober curator
called Walk Your Talk andcontributing just random images
(11:54):
of me, clothes that I sourcedfrom the goodwill or the real,
real, or various places.
And I remembered that time,like kind of cataloging my early
recovery alongside of what Iwas wearing.
And it was the premise was youknow, you're changing on the
outside, you're changing on theinside.
(12:15):
And through that connection, Igot, uh, let's see, gosh,
following the breadcrumbs, I metAlexandra Nyman, who is the
creative director of the BreakFree Foundation.
She runs a fashion show in NewYork, dedicated to mental health
and addiction.
I cast for that and end upwalking in New York Fashion Week
(12:36):
for her, for that cause, whichthen kind of prompted me to do
local castings in the Seattleand Portland area.
Then I started doing some localrunway and modeling, and uh it
just kind of became its itswhole own thing.
And I and I chalked that up toa year or two of adventures in
(12:57):
early sobriety.
I had so much fun doing it.
I don't do it anymore simplybecause it's not the end goal
for me.
It was just a fun thing.
It, you know, it's a lot ofwork and a lot of time and
energy that I don't have at thispoint in my life as a
46-year-old woman.
MicheleFolan (13:14):
Well, yeah.
And you've got a lot of ironsin the fire right now.
Yes.
And I think, as you say, it itthere's a bigger plan here for
you, for sure.
You named your podcast RewiredSober.
And I think that plays on yourapproach to this.
Can you explain why you youcalled it Rewired Sober?
KateVitela (13:38):
Yeah.
It actually started out beingcalled You've Been Selected.
And so there's several episodesrecorded where you'll hear me
say that if you ever listen toit.
And there's there's a lot ofmarketing around you've been
selected.
And that name came from thenurse monitoring program I was
in.
Every day I was, quote,selected to do a random UA,
those red letters would pop upon the screen.
(14:00):
And as time went on, I realizedwhat I really love, appreciate,
admire.
I can't even like what reallylights me up about recovery is
the neuroplasticity componentand the hope around the our
brain's ability to reorganizeitself, you know, around the
(14:21):
concept that we can completelyheal.
Because that that was foreignto me in early recovery.
I was fed the messaging thatyou will be one drink away from
being a raging alcoholic therest of your life.
You'll sit in church basements,you'll always have a quote
disease, you'll always bebroken.
And although that had its placein my recovery in terms of
(14:45):
surrendering in the beginning,it left me at about two and a
half years sober, feeling kindof hopeless.
Like, wow, this is forever.
Uh P.S.
This sucks.
You know, you want to know thetruth?
I don't want to call myself analcoholic forever.
I don't want to sit in churchbasements and read the same book
(15:07):
forever.
When I started researchingaddiction science, then I
realized, oh, we change.
Our brains reorganize, we formnew neural networks, new
pathways.
We we can completely change ashuman beings.
And that is so much more of ahopeful message than you will
(15:28):
forever be an alcoholic with adisease.
And and I also came to learn Idon't have a disease.
My brain was dis-ased.
My brain was in a state and afrequency that was dis-ased at
the time.
And through, you know, changingin habits and a myriad of other
(15:49):
factors over time, uh, Ibelieve that I have completely
rewired.
I mean, every cell in your bodychanges every seven years,
right?
You become a new human being.
So yeah, it just, and I didn'twant sobriety to feel like it
was based on willpower, it wasbased on white knuckling, it was
(16:09):
based on shame, any of that.
You know, I wanted it to behopeful.
MicheleFolan (16:14):
Yeah.
You know, I just recorded apodcast about manifestation.
And I see there's someparallels here with how we can
manifest things, we can believesomething and almost make it
happen, even though it may notbe your true reality.
But maybe in a sense, this iskind of the same thing where you
(16:37):
can through positive talk and Iguess manifestation, you can
start to recover, you know, makemake that pathway happen in
your brain.
Does that make sense?
Absolutely does.
KateVitela (16:51):
And there is a component of that.
Our thoughts create ourreality, right?
So and I just um did a trainingmodule on this mindset going
into recovery is huge.
If you tell yourself this isgonna suck and it's gonna go
forever and be horrible and I'mnot gonna have any fun, you
know, your brain is you're gonnalook for evidence to prove that
(17:11):
statement to be true.
But if you're willing to staycurious about what's ahead, and
if you can envision yourself ayear or two down the road,
living sober, free, healthy,feeling good, sleeping good,
eating good, having fun,enjoying your life.
If you can envision that, it'seasier to get there.
(17:32):
So, yeah, there is an elementof manifesting in this.
There's an element, there's abig mindset component here.
MicheleFolan (17:39):
Kate, we're gonna take a quick break and we come
back.
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Okay, we are back.
So, what you're kind of tellingme is that it's important to
create these new pathwaysinstead of trying to eliminate
old ones, correct?
KateVitela (18:47):
Yeah, it's kind of like if you had a bridge on the
freeway and you, you know, youdestroyed it, you took a you
know, bulldozer to it, thenyou'd have nowhere to go.
So you you have to build a new,more efficient bridge.
So you you build new habitstructures, new thought loops,
(19:08):
new routines.
You know, you you rebuild yourmindset and it it all comes
together in in the concept ofneuroplasticity.
People throw around the phraseneurons that fire together, wire
together.
Well, what does that even mean,right?
What does that actually meanfor your brain?
(19:30):
So your brain is made up ofneurons, right?
Little teeny tiny cells thatare sending chemical and
electrical signals.
And when you partner those,when you when two activate at
the same time, so you have athought that leads to a feeling
that leads to a behavior.
So thought being, oh, I've hada horrible day.
(19:51):
I just, you know, my routine isalways that I go home and take
my shoes off and cook dinner anddrink wine.
Okay, there's your thoughtthere.
Your feeling is, oh, I'mcraving a glass of wine.
There's some cold Chardonnay inthe fridge.
Okay, you pour that, you know,behavior, you drank, you got
some temporary relief.
And then, you know, whateverhappens after that, I'm sorry.
(20:11):
I'm, you know, I've been there.
But so there's a little patternright there.
So all those little neuralnetworks, they kind of fire and
wire together.
So it becomes this well-wornpath.
So automatically when you comehome, your brain's like, oh, I
know what to do.
You know, this little tinyalgorithm, it knows exactly
where to go.
(20:31):
And you find yourself almost onautopilot, reaching for that,
reaching, reaching.
And it it takes some likepause, you know, pattern
interrupt recognition, andreally examining, oh, wow, this
is what I'm doing.
And you can you can start newpatterns, you can blaze a new
trail, you know, if if thatmakes sense in that, you know,
(20:55):
the first component ofneuroplasticity is that that
those neurons firing and wiringtogether, you know, we can
change that.
We can we can chart a newcourse.
MicheleFolan (21:06):
So this is where I think a lot of women get stuck.
It's the cooking dinner, likeyou said, pouring the glass of
wine, because that that's kindof the ritual, the habit that we
we get into.
And the other thing, Kate, thatI believe a lot of women think
(21:26):
that's my last joy in life is myevening glass of wine, right?
KateVitela (21:32):
I've heard that.
MicheleFolan (21:34):
You know, it it's and that's very real because I
hear this from clients when Isay, Hey, how about for the next
six weeks we dial that back?
And I know for some of them itfeels like I am taking away
something, their their joy,their their pleasure, their
reward.
Because I think for a lot ofpeople it's just the reward
(21:55):
after a long day.
So, how do we get ourselves outof that?
Because it is such a habit.
KateVitela (22:04):
Yeah.
I've heard that so many times.
I mean, clients come to me,this is the last candy in my
dish, you know.
I hate to give this up.
And I understand, I was there,you know, wine was my best
friend.
But I think you have to stepback.
You have to step back andthink, okay, it's not about the
wine, it's about what the winerepresents.
(22:26):
And you said it right there.
It's a reward, it's a relief.
It represents a moment ofexhale.
And for a lot of women inparticular, this is why I love
coaching women, it's aboutputting a final buffer between
meeting everybody else's needsand your own.
(22:48):
Right?
It's that final place of like,oh no, this is me time.
I have met everyone's needs alldamn day long.
The dog, the kids, the husband,the house, the career, running
around doing everything foreveryone.
And this is that rebellious actin your mind, right, that says,
oh no, this one is for me.
(23:09):
The little tiny bit of like,this is mine, right?
And so if we can step back fromthat and recognize, oh, well,
maybe there's other things inour life we're needing besides
that glass of wine.
Maybe we need boundaries, maybewe need communication tools
(23:29):
with our family that says, pickup your own shit.
I am not your maid.
Maybe we need to quit being adoormat, being so codependent,
people pleasing, fawning, youknow.
Or maybe it's not about that atall.
Maybe it's about finding aresting place that you don't
have to recover from.
Because we we think wine is ourexhale and our rest, but then
(23:52):
we have to recover from that.
Yeah.
And most people do that becausethey don't know there's a
better way out there, they don'tknow there's a better life.
I was one of them.
I had, you know, 17 years as anRN.
I had no concept that there wasa better way to wind down.
No one ever taught me.
So I absolutely get it.
MicheleFolan (24:13):
Yeah, and we talk a lot on this podcast about
self-care.
And self-care can mean a lot ofdifferent things.
Maybe it is that time you takefor yourself.
You're like, okay, everybody,I'm taking 20 minutes.
Do not come find me, do notbother me.
And maybe that's just so youcan take a quick walk around the
(24:35):
block, or you want to go sit inyour favorite chair, or
whatever the case might be.
Does it have to be a glass ofwine?
Can it be something else?
And for me, it it is that thatwalk after dinner, or and maybe
and maybe I go with my husbandand the dogs, but those are my
little moments where I get to dosomething for myself during the
(24:58):
day.
I want to ask you a question.
This just popped in my head.
What's your feeling aboutmocktails?
KateVitela (25:06):
You know, it's very individualized.
I have some clients that switchimmediately to mocktails and it
really helps them get throughearly sobriety and they love the
switch.
It gives them a goodreplacement.
They don't feel like they'remissing out.
And then I have some peoplethat mocktails are triggering.
You know, they remind you ofthe smell, the feeling, the
(25:28):
whole representation ofdrinking.
So I think it's veryindividualized.
You know, only you know if it'striggering or not.
Personally, for me, I didn't dothe mocktail thing in early
sobriety because it wastriggering.
I didn't want to drink a fakebeer or a fake glass of wine
because I was too, I was workingtoo hard to not do the real
(25:49):
thing.
I didn't want to tastesomething that, you know, I
didn't want to drink fermentedgrapes.
I I wanted, you know, I wantedthe real thing.
So it I think it's verynuanced.
But you know, some clients Iwork with, it does, it does well
for them.
MicheleFolan (26:05):
So for myself, I will say, I think some of that
wine craving at like while I wascooking dinner, I think I was
craving the sugar more thananything.
That it there was that, okay,it's dinner time, I'm kind of
hungry.
And so what I have found isdoing a mocktail kind of cuts
(26:28):
that edge, and then I'm I'mgood.
I'm good for the night.
So I was just kind of curiousbecause I know some people have
said that it can be it can betriggering.
And from somebody that's beenthrough sobriety, I just wanted
to know what you thought aboutthat.
KateVitela (26:42):
Yeah, I think you're spot on about the sugar
component, though.
Early sobriety, you know,there's sugar cravings, and so
you can get a nice little sugarfix from a mocktail.
You can also eat a handful ofcandy if you need to.
You know, low blood sugar is ahuge reason, is a huge trigger
for cravings.
(27:03):
So, you know, they say hungry,angry, lonely, or tired, right?
And check yourself, you know.
I like to say your craving is asmoke signal.
It's a messenger for what yourbrain and body need.
And if you're able to pause andkind of check yourself a little
bit and you feel that weird,low blood sugary, hangry
(27:24):
feeling, eat some sugar, youknow, and then of course eat
some protein and drink somewater and do the right things.
But in the beginning, whenyou're just getting off of
alcohol, go for the sugar, man.
I don't even care.
I tell clients, you have onejob, and that is to not drink
alcohol.
Like we'll tackle the otherstuff incrementally.
In the beginning, when you'reforming a new habit and maybe
(27:48):
it's gonna take a few months, anew routine, eat all the damn
sugar you want.
I don't even care.
We're, you know, we're savingour own lives here.
Yeah.
MicheleFolan (27:55):
You know, and there was a there was a time
when I'd be at a restaurant, andI know my friends do this too,
where you're like, I don't wantdessert, but I will have another
glass of wine.
So we would trade one for theother.
And many, many women insobriety, or when they start
cutting back on alcohol, they'relike, Why am I why aren't I
(28:16):
losing weight?
And many times it's becauseyou're you're balancing the
cravings with eating probablymore carbohydrate.
And that's a natural thing todo.
You do eventually, though, yourbody responds in kind with
weight loss.
And this is just this is my thethat's the vanity perspective
of this is that your body losesa lot of that inflammation that
(28:40):
it's been carrying, particularlyin your face.
I don't think people realizethe the difference in your glow
when you do refrain fromalcohol.
So that's the one thing.
How often do you get into, youknow, related to seven, at least
seven different cancers, thelong-term health ramifications.
(29:03):
Do you coach your your clientsthrough that?
KateVitela (29:05):
You know, I don't.
I actually don't because here'sthe thing people know, right?
It's not about information,it's about transformation.
We know what the data's outthere.
It's related to seven differentcancers, it will do all these
bad things.
Ever we know we don't we don'tneed to be beat over the head
with more information becausepeople don't change from that.
(29:27):
What they change from isintrospection and you know,
examining and a compassionatespace.
We all know it's acarcinogenic, it's not good for
you, but I think you you gottadig deeper than that.
I I don't I don't go on and onand on about all the shameful,
harmful effects of alcohol.
(29:47):
That that doesn't seem to behelpful.
But what I will say is thereare times when I will go to
something, okay, let's talkabout what's meaningful for you.
You've mentioned that it'svanity and the weight loss.
Okay, so vanity is important.
I don't care if you get soberfor vanity.
That's that's a good enoughreason for me.
(30:09):
Dude, I mean, my face was sopuffy and bloated when I first
got sober.
I looked like the hamburglar.
I mean, it was vanity was apart of it.
But I think you mentionedsomething that I and I and I
hear this a lot and I don't knowin the comparison game.
There's actually a, I thinkit's a reel or a meme or some
(30:30):
kind of video going around theinternet where a guy compares,
okay, you could have 500calories or however many
calories, I think it's 500calories in a thing of
McDonald's French fries, or youcould have like three or four
glasses of Chardonnay for thatmany calories.
And it's like, oh duh, I'mgonna pick the Chardonnay.
No, no, no.
It's not about the calories.
(30:51):
People think, oh, there's, youknow, 100 calories in a glass of
Chardonnay, and there's ahundred calories in this little
tiny slice of cake.
Which one do I choose?
It's not about the calories,it's the cascade of events that
happen when you drink thatprevents you from weight loss.
It's not a swap.
One glass of wine.
(31:11):
I mean, one glass, it's notabout the calories.
You are talking about hijackingyour reward centers.
You are talking about hijackingyour sleep.
One glass affects REM sleep,your circadian rhythm affects
your hormones.
You know, and when we talkabout hormones, then we
immediately go into weight losshormones, you know, gremlin.
(31:35):
I call it gremlin.
Well, your hunger hormonesincrease, your leptin decreases,
your satiation.
So, I mean, it's a cascade ofthings.
And let's stop talking aboutthe calories and start talking
about, you know, weight loss isa is an entirely systemic
process, mind, body, soul, youknow, it's it's it's more than
(31:56):
just what goes in our mouth.
And so those are areas where Ican dive in with information
that resonates, that transformsversus shames people.
MicheleFolan (32:06):
You know, back to your sleep comment.
I did I did my own littleexperiment because I have people
tell me all the time, oh, whenI drink, I just my hit hits the
pillow, I sleep like a baby.
I'm like, oh, you think so,huh?
I did my own experiment.
So had bourbon, had a bourbonwith my husband one night.
Sleep score, like 62.
(32:29):
He was gone for 10 days and Ididn't drink anything.
My sleep scores were 91, 94,89.
Now, I would never know thatother than the fact that I wore
a sleep tracker, but it isabsolutely one drink can set you
off on a cascade of poor sleep.
(32:51):
And when we get poor sleep, wemake poor choices the next day
about food.
We tend to gravitate towardmore carbohydrate.
It's just, I think it's thesetypes of pieces of data that
really kind of set the stage forreally, what is this doing for
(33:12):
me?
Right.
And and Kate and I have talkedabout this because I when I was
a guest on her podcast, I stilldo have an occasional drink.
But I even now look at that onedrink and say, uh, do I really
want that?
Is that what's that gonna dofor me tomorrow?
How am I gonna sleep tonight?
And oftentimes it's I don't, Iguess what I want to say, it's
(33:36):
losing its appeal altogether.
And the other thing I wanted totalk about, Kate, is
moderation, because I think youand I have a kind of different
perspective on this.
This would probably be the onlyplace where I think you and I
may have a different thoughtprocess.
Can you share with thelisteners what you what your
philosophy is on moderation anddoes it have a place?
KateVitela (34:00):
Well, you know, I'm not the alcohol police, right?
Like I'm not the soberIlluminati.
I don't care if people drink.
Like, there might be people whocan there are people who can
moderate.
And if you are one of them whocan truly moderate your alcohol,
good on you.
You go with your bad moderationself.
(34:20):
That's completelyindividualized.
You know, I feel like so muchof this journey is nuanced and
individualized.
You know, if you've seen oneperson's recovery, you've seen
one person's recovery.
That's my philosophy.
Personally, I've never seenmoderation work with a person
who is physically,physiologically, mentally
(34:41):
addicted.
You will end up in a loop ofmental gymnastics obsessing over
alcohol, even if it's obsessingover the moderation.
Of course, I could nevermoderate.
Moderating was the holy grail.
It was the elusive thing in thesky where if I could just
moderate.
And that myth of normal, itkept me stuck for another five
(35:06):
years.
I tried watering down the wine,I tried water in between the
wine, I tried food, I triedhaving my partner limit my
drinks, only drinking on theweekends.
I mean, the amount of time andenergy I spent moderating, I
wish I could have those yearsback, trying to moderate, I
should say.
But that's me.
Now, there might be people outthere, and there are people out
(35:30):
there who can have one drinkhere and there at a wedding, at
an event, you know, on aweekend, and and then they can
take it or leave it for weeks orat a time or or whatever.
That's that's a totallydifferent story.
I mean, if if there's someonewho wants to live like that and
it doesn't affect you and you'renot obsessing, go ahead.
(35:54):
It's fine.
It's your choice, you know.
But I think the funny thingabout the word moderation is if
you think of alcohol in its trueform of what it is, ethanol and
poison, then moderation ismicrodosing poison.
And is that really your endgoal in life?
(36:16):
Right.
That's I that's a personaldecision.
MicheleFolan (36:20):
And that's where I am.
That's where my that's where mysensibilities kick in.
I'm like, what?
You know, okay, yeah, sure.
I can have, I don't reallydrink wine anymore, but I could
do the the cocktail, right?
Because it's fun and festive,but could I just do the mocktail
and be better off?
(36:40):
And so this is where I am in myjourney with all of this.
And so my my point in bringingthis up is I have listeners
right now that are in my shoes.
I also have listeners who arestruggling with this, and then
there's some kind of in betweenwhere they're they want to cut
back and they know they should,and moderation may be a great
(37:04):
place for them to start, youknow.
So, like I said, I kind of cameto where I am on my own, but I
do know that there are peopleout there that just shouldn't
drink at all because there's nothe the on-off switch is is
broken.
KateVitela (37:19):
And I personally feel like the more you try to
moderate and fail, the more youjust crush your self-trust, your
personal sense of agency, youknow, your self-esteem, it just
demolishes you over time.
It's such a shameful cycle whenyou're trying to moderate and
failing.
So I would caution that.
MicheleFolan (37:40):
Yeah.
KateVitela (37:41):
You know, for people, if you're trying to
moderate and it's leading you tofail and more shame and you're
stuck in that loop, you know,that's I I don't want to see
anybody go through that becauseI went through it and it was
horrific.
Now, for you, let's say in yourparticular situation, I mean,
we're coach to coach here, and Igotta ask you the question,
yeah.
(38:01):
What are you making it meanthat you can moderate?
Because you said maybe I justhave a mock tail instead.
So what is that?
What is that moderation, thatone glass here and there, what
does that mean to you?
Um, you know, I mean, that's agreat question.
MicheleFolan (38:17):
I think it's just telling myself that I I can
still do this, but I I don'thave it, it's not a problem for
me.
So I mean, I never had, I neverhad a rock bottom moment.
I never had but but there weretimes, you know, and I shared
this with you during COVID whereI would almost polish off a
(38:37):
whole bottle of wine, but Iwouldn't drink the whole thing
just because I didn't want tosay I finished the whole bottle
because we we were doing nothingbut sitting at home watching
Netflix.
That was my turning point was Idon't like feeling this way the
next day.
This is gross.
I don't have energy, I don'tfeel motivated.
I don't like this.
This is yuck.
(38:57):
And going into midlife andmenopause, my body couldn't
handle that any longer.
And that, you know, we we knowthat.
And um, and I want better formyself.
I want better for my healthbecause I want to live to be in
my 90s.
KateVitela (39:10):
So it sounds like for you to have that one glass
every now and then, it'sdifferent.
What you're telling yourself isthat but the fact that you can
moderate is differentiating youfrom people that can't.
And it's also reminding youthat you don't have a problem,
(39:31):
that you're you're sort ofothering in a sense.
Like you're you can moderatebecause you're not like those
other people.
Although you see no reason whyyou're having this glass of
wine, like no health benefits.
No, no, right.
MicheleFolan (39:47):
I mean, I I think I think you're spot on.
I mean, I didn't intend forthis to become a coaching
session, but I think this isgood for other people to hear.
Kate's laughing.
But it doesn't, this doesn'tbother me at all because I've
been very forthright with mylisteners about alcohol.
And I I continue to have thistopic come up because I see so
(40:11):
much out there being at a storeand seeing, you know, mommy back
to school time.
And it was a huge wine display.
But that kind of stuff I thinkis toxic because we're we're
normalizing that.
And worse yet, our kids seethat.
But I I don't I don't want kidsto, you know, wonder, you know,
(40:35):
what's in mom's Yeti in her gocup, right?
I mean, that's that's kind ofuh that that just doesn't feel
good to me.
So and then and we know thatnow I think it's 54% of adults
say that they're not drinking.
So the pendulum seems to beswinging, but I don't know if
(40:57):
that is for midlife women.
I don't know if we'renecessarily getting the message.
KateVitela (41:03):
You know, I can't I can't speak to that statistic.
I don't know as if it's midlifewomen either.
I think and and here's where Iwant to empathize with you in in
holding on to that one glass ofwine is that there's so much
more nuance to being in midlife.
(41:24):
And especially being a woman,you know, we kind of want to
hold on to the little bit ofpower we have, we want to hold
on to the choices that we have,the the feeling of control that
we have.
And I think that is a huge partof womaning and wifing and
(41:46):
momming and lifing.
And I absolutely understandthat.
As a woman who did not want togive it up, you know, I look
back at myself and it's like,God, you know, everybody always
told me what to do, where to go,how to be.
I was always dancing around tomeet other people's
expectations.
I just wanted something for me.
(42:08):
And I wanted to rebel a littlebit.
Because, you know, as a womanin this world, I don't have a
lot of control or powersometimes.
You know, the patriarchy has atendency to kick my ass
sometimes.
And I get that.
Absolutely.
And so if we if we can speak tothat from a sense of like,
(42:28):
fuck, we get it.
We get it.
Let's sit in circle as womentogether and talk about how do
we take our power back?
Because it's not with what'snot with wine.
MicheleFolan (42:40):
No, it's not.
And I being on this healthjourney has been probably the
best thing that I've done formyself, in which I try to take
women along with me on this ridebecause it has opened my eyes
to not just my overall healthand longevity, but that
(43:01):
self-care, prioritize me.
I've done this for everybodyelse for all these years.
This is my time.
You know, I used to not lovegoing to the gym.
Now I love going to the gymbecause I'm doing this for me.
It's because I am I'm makingmyself a priority.
And so if that means for you,making yourself a priority is
(43:25):
reassessing your relationshipwith alcohol, food, whatever
that is, do it because this isthe time.
This is the time to have thatconversation with yourself.
KateVitela (43:37):
So you had said on on my podcast, I just listened
to it the other day, and yousaid some really empowering
stuff about what it means to bein midlife and you know, taking
your power back as a woman andand being so embodied with the
fact that in your midlife is isa reinvention and it's a it's a
(43:57):
whole new time and a whole newchapter.
And what that brought about forme was that midlife is kind of
like the best time to quitdrinking.
Because as a as a woman, asanyone in midlife, like we've
kind of been there, done that,right?
We have a little bit moremotivation, a little bit more
sense of urgency to change.
And we already know whatdoesn't work for us.
(44:21):
So, I mean, I coach midlifewomen into stopping drinking and
staying sober, particularlybecause midlife is the best
time.
I mean, obviously, neverimbibing in the first place.
Is that realistic?
Well, maybe not, not unless youlive in an Amish community,
okay?
Let's be realistic.
But I love coaching womenaround the midlife because so
(44:45):
much is changing.
And the conversation is sodifferent around taking your
power back.
What can be yours that isn'tharmful?
The gym routine, a new creativeroutine, you know, interest in
a new career or a new path andvolunteering.
You know, this is the time ofreinvention.
(45:05):
I love that.
MicheleFolan (45:06):
And speaking of which, when you work with
clients, what does that looklike?
What kind of program do youhave set up?
KateVitela (45:13):
Yeah, in fact, just in the next couple of weeks, I'm
opening uh a group coachingcontainer.
And I believe I'll be movinginto group coaching um only
going forward.
I was doing just one-on-onesessions with people.
We would meet weekly for likean hour on Zoom, but there's
(45:33):
only one of me, right?
And there's only so many peopleI can meet with.
And so we're we'retransitioning over to a group
model, still meeting weekly liveas a group, and then there'll
be some educational materials.
But what I've found over timeis so much of what speeds up the
(45:53):
process, the benefits, theenjoyment of recovery is the
relational safety, the bondingwith other women, you know, sort
of co-regulating our nervoussystem together.
And I, you know, groups reallyare super helpful that way.
So so in in about two weeks,I'll be opening uh just for
(46:17):
group sessions.
MicheleFolan (46:18):
Oh, I think that's great.
I think community is essentialfor this process.
I think you're smart to dothat.
Um, it lets people know I'm notalone.
They feel that they've got thisadditional little support
lifeline.
It's uh I think that's reallygreat on your part to pursue
(46:41):
that.
KateVitela (46:41):
That's awesome.
Well, and it's also born out ofa need, right?
Like there's a lot of groupsthat I see out there, and I'm
part of them, where they'resupport groups.
You go, you share, and then youzip it.
And you don't really get a lotof guidance because the people
leading the groups are justhosts, they're just
facilitators, they're justholding space.
So it's one woman after theother, kind of dumping their
(47:04):
problems next, dump next.
And and we we leave and I thinkwithout a lot of direction.
And so I wanted a place where,you know, you come to me with a
win and a challenge, and we'lltogether form an action step
step, and I'll live coach youwith other people so that it
(47:24):
it's more purposeful, right?
And you're leaving with more ofum of an intention setting
versus just coming to dump yourdump your problems and leave.
Yeah, but but I think they'rethat that structure's good
though.
Uh yeah, both are both arenecessary.
MicheleFolan (47:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I no, I think that would bevital.
This is a personal question foryou.
You mentioned I I foundsomething out there.
You you talk a little bit aboutdisordered eating.
Do you think there wereparallels with the disordered
eating and your addiction withalcohol?
KateVitela (48:00):
Absolutely there, yeah, absolutely.
Uh, I commonly talk about aterm uh drunkorexia, restricting
calories that you would reserveto, you know, spend on alcohol,
just like we were talkingabout, because you think it's a
direct caloric exchange.
And I went through a period ofmy life when I first started
(48:22):
restricting, and then I starteddrinking because my blood sugar
was low and I was hungry.
So it went from restricting,heavy drinking, to then binge
eating, bulimia, and it was thisnasty cycle.
And for so many women, there'sa correlation.
(48:43):
It's something like one in fivestruggle with both
co-occurring, um, you know,disordered eating and substance
use.
You know, and so, yes, very,very common.
There's overlapping issues withblood sugar, with all the
things, right?
Identity, burnout, fatigue,self-esteem, you know, your
(49:04):
wiring, all of it.
And it it took me a while tostep back from all of it and
realize before I starteddrinking, like food was maybe my
first addiction.
MicheleFolan (49:17):
I appreciate you addressing this because this is
not something that we havecovered before, but it it's good
for women to see that therecan't be a correlation there
with food and and alcohol.
Kate, what is one of yourpersonal core pillars of
self-care that you nevercompromise on?
KateVitela (49:39):
I have I have quite a bit because I I live in a
routine and I do not compromisemy routine.
But I'm gonna have to saysleep.
That is a hundred percent ofthe time something that I is is
super important to me.
I maintain that no matter what.
A night of quote partying forme is staying up till 10, 11
(50:01):
o'clock, having too many dietcokes, you know, maybe getting a
little bit of restless sleepbecause I had too much caffeine.
But sleep is my number one.
In fact, part of the reason Ibegan drinking in the first
place was I was a horribleinsomniac.
And I thought, you know, youdrink and then you just go right
to sleep.
You pass out.
(50:22):
And so it started for me likedrinking to sleep.
And um, once I learned the way,you know, sleep hygiene, and I
was able to get good sleep, Igot on the right sleeping
medication, I did all the rightthings, and I can get a restful
night's sleep.
Oh my God, game changer.
MicheleFolan (50:40):
Yeah, it is the foundation of everything, isn't
it?
Yeah.
Sleep, good sleep, because itit really does set you up for
success the next day.
I I swear by it.
I love it.
Kate Vitella, where canlisteners find you and connect
with your work and tune intoRewired Sober?
KateVitela (51:00):
Yeah, so Rewired Sober is my handle name for all
the socials Instagram, Facebook,TikTok.
Yes, I'm on TikTok.
I'm so proud of myself.
46-year-old woman who figuredout how to use TikTok like a
week ago.
Seriously.
Um yeah, my and my podcast alsocalled Rewired Sober.
It streams anywhere you listen.
(51:22):
Apple, you know, Spotify, anyof the podcasts, it's it's it's
anywhere.
So um, and then there'll belinks to jump in to group
coaching if you want to.
MicheleFolan (51:33):
Okay.
All right, everybody, make anote of that.
Follow Kate.
She is very inspirational.
You'll you'll love herInstagram and check out her
podcast, Rewired Sober.
Even if you don't think youhave an issue with alcohol, you
might be very intrigued by theguests that she has on the show,
(51:56):
including me.
I forgot.
I'm I was on her show.
It's you! Yeah.
So um, thank you for being heretoday, Kate.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review thepodcast where you listen.
And if you'd like to join theAsking for a Friend community,
click on the link in the shownotes to sign up for my weekly
(52:18):
newsletter where I share midlifewellness and fitness tips,
insights, my favorite finds, andrecipes.
Are you tired of quick fixes that never last?
I've got something new for you.
It's called the 21-daymetabolism reset, and it's
designed specifically for womenin midlife who are ready to
finally feel leaner, stronger,and more energized without the
gimmicks.
In just three weeks, you'lllearn how to fuel your body with
the right foods, balance yourhormones, and train smarter, not
(00:23):
harder, so you can see resultsthat actually last.
And here's the best part it'sonly $99 to join.
You'll get my coaching,accountability, and proven plan
that works with your life.
So if you've been waiting forthe right time, this is it.
Click the link in the shownotes.
And if you prefer one-on-onecoaching, I have options for you
(00:45):
too.
Today's episode took anunexpected turn, and I kind of
loved it.
My guests challenged me a biton the idea of moderating
alcohol, and honestly, it feltlike a mini counseling session
right here on the mic.
But I don't mind at all.
I welcome guests who bringtheir fire and push me to
reflect.
(01:06):
Here's where I stand.
I understand that for manypeople, moderation simply isn't
workable.
But for me, I can have a drinkor two on occasion and leave it
at that.
Case in point, I just got backfrom a girl's trip.
Yes, I had wine, I even had alittle bourbon.
And let me tell you, my sleepwas trashed, I woke up foggy,
(01:29):
dragging through the next daywith a mild headache.
It was such a clear reminder ofwhat alcohol really costs me.
Now that I'm home, I'm rightback to sipping my mocktails and
actually enjoying not drinking.
And here's the thing (01:42):
each trip, each celebration, each of
these little experiments bringsme one step closer to giving up
alcohol altogether.
Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
(02:04):
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Let's talk about the woman whois tired of being tired.
You wake up groggy, draggingyourself through the day because
that glass or two of wine mostevenings robs your sleep and
steals your energy.
(02:25):
Or maybe you're tired of hidingyour drinking, sneaking pours
when no one's watching, orstashing the empties because
you're embarrassed or afraid ofbeing found out.
Maybe there's that naggingshame from being that person at
the party one too many times.
In midlife, alcohol doesn'tjust take the edge off anymore.
It can take your sleep, yourconfidence, and your clarity.
(02:48):
You know it's a problem, youfear that rock bottom moment,
and you know deep down you'reready for change.
My guest today, Kate Vitela,knows the story all too well.
A registered nurse for over 20years, Kate got sober in 2018
and has since dedicated her lifeto helping others rewire their
brains, reclaim their power, andfind freedom and sobriety.
(03:12):
She's the host of the RewiredSober Podcast, a board-certified
psychiatric mental health nurseand recovery coach for women
who are ready to take their lifeback without hitting rock
bottom.
Kate Vitela, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
KateVitela (03:28):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm excited to be here.
MicheleFolan (03:31):
Well, I was on Kate's podcast a while back.
And as we spoke, I thought,yeah, you know what?
She brings such a differentperspective to this topic than
what we've done in the past.
And I think this is really goodtiming.
Honestly, you know, we'rerounding up summer here.
We're going into the fall andthe holidays.
(03:53):
And I think that's kind of atime when people start to really
look at some of theirbehaviors, particularly
drinking, and maybe startreassessing a little bit.
Kate, for those who are new toyou, can you share a little bit
about your story and whatinspired you to create Rewired
Sober?
KateVitela (04:13):
Yeah, thank you for the intro.
I'm Kate Vitela.
I have been a registered nursesince 2001.
And I, like you said, I gotsober in 2018.
And when I was six monthssober, I pivoted my nursing
career to work in mental healthand addiction, psychiatric
nursing, a field of study Inever thought I was gonna go
(04:37):
into.
And uh I've been in that fieldfor the last seven years because
I'm seven and a half yearssober at this at the time of
this recording.
So, you know, over time,research, personal experience,
talking with hundreds of women,you repeat yourself in certain
areas.
You find certain things thatare really important to discuss
(05:00):
and things that really light youup in terms of subjects.
And I got so excited about theconcept of neuroplasticity and
the hope it brings to recovery.
And it just felt like the nextstep, you know, and and it was
kind of bigger than me in somany ways.
I it just one thing led to theother, led to the other, and I
(05:21):
and I ended up here and I Istarted coaching about, I think
it was two years ago.
And you know, I just recentlystarted a podcast, and it just
feels like things are fallinginto place.
Again, it feels bigger than me,but I know I'm right where I'm
meant to be.
MicheleFolan (05:39):
Oh, and doesn't that feel good?
Yeah, you know, and to havethese pivots in midlife and go
at it without a lot of fear, butyou know what?
I shouldn't assume that.
Were you a little scared aboutyou know taking that chance and
shifting your nursing careeraltogether?
KateVitela (05:58):
Absolutely, I was.
And and I want to backtrack alittle bit because I used the
word pivot, and that's a verynice self-compassionate term for
what actually happened.
Well, what was that moment backin 2018?
Yeah, in 2018, that was sort ofthe culmination of all of the
issues from my over decade-longcareer of drinking.
(06:22):
Maybe I think I drank everyday, probably for 10, 15 years.
So I was 38 years old by thattime.
I had been a registered nursefor 17 years, and my drinking
had gotten so bad that it wasinterfering with my work, my
family life, my marriage.
(06:43):
It was really, really bad.
And it and I was physically,physiologically addicted to it.
I could not see my way out froma perspective of, you know, I
didn't know anybody in recovery.
I didn't even know what thatword meant.
I had only seen, you know, AAmeetings in the movies, and I
(07:04):
had been a nurse for a reallylong time, having never talked
about addiction.
Never talked about it.
I worked in cardiology, Iworked in surgeries, I worked in
pharmaceuticals, and it justwasn't, it wasn't on my my brain
ever.
And so by 2018, as my storygoes, I was facing that crucial
(07:26):
part where I knew I had to quitdrinking.
You know, everyone around mewas saying it.
You know, it was coming up withall, you know, all the
consequences.
It was, it was hitting me smackin the face.
I knew there was no other wayout.
But I also didn't know how tolive substance free, like how to
just raw dog it, as you'll say.
(07:46):
Like I did not know how to gothrough life without a crotch,
without something.
So instead of just going, youknow, straight into sobriety, I
started smoking marijuana, likemassive quantities of it.
You know, at 38 years old, it'slike the first time I've ever
tried it.
You can tell I don't even knowwhat I'm talking about because I
say the word marijuana insteadof like a cool term, you know,
(08:09):
like a cool word for pot.
I'm like, it's THC.
But you know, because that wasmy way of saying, okay, I'm
gonna switch my crutch fromalcohol to marijuana, right?
I could not imagine going stonecold sober.
And as you know, nurses, firstresponders, we are not allowed
to imbibe in THC because it'snot federally legal, which makes
(08:32):
me laugh because we arecertainly allowed to imbibe in
alcohol.
Of course.
But I basically got in trouble,and my story is kind of long
and twisted and funky at thispoint.
But I got caught and I tried tothrow a drug screen.
I tried to use fake urine tothrow a drug screen because I
(08:52):
was afraid I was gonna testpositive for THC, which is so
silly now that I look back onit.
But it it put me into amonitoring program for nurses
with substance use issues.
MicheleFolan (09:03):
Okay.
KateVitela (09:03):
And that kind of catapulted me into recovery.
And then, you know, I had totake a break from nursing.
And when I came back intobedside nursing, the field that
made the most sense was psychbecause of what I had been
through personally.
I had this like newfound, youknow, compassion and also
(09:27):
curiosity.
You know, early sobriety piquedso much curiosity for me about
this whole other world of mentalhealth.
MicheleFolan (09:35):
You know, first of all, thank you for bravely
sharing your story becausethat's gotta be hard to admit,
like, hey, I was out of control.
Yeah, this was this was where Iwas at the time.
And then for sticking with it,like you didn't you didn't give
up on on your career.
You wanted to continue on.
(09:55):
And I think that says a lotabout you and your tenacity,
that your tenacity is what gotyou through this, that you
didn't want to give up.
You didn't want to give up onyourself.
KateVitela (10:07):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
There were times I did, youknow, there were times I wanted
to throw in the towel, but itwas it was a one day at a time
thing for a while, you know, uhputting one foot in front of the
other.
I had good support around me.
I am a white, straight ciswoman with financial means.
(10:30):
You know, let's face it, I hadprivilege.
I had parents that helpedsubsidize my rent while I was
getting my shit together.
You know, there's things that Ihave to attribute.
I had a support group.
And yes, I had some tenacityand and some resilience, but I
was not alone.
And so I try to make thatreally clear to people who feel
(10:51):
like they're in hopeless,helpless situations.
I mean, yes, I was able to riseabove all of it, but um, it
took time and support.
MicheleFolan (10:59):
Was there at some point in your your work history
where you were a model as well?
KateVitela (11:05):
Actually, fashion modeling?
MicheleFolan (11:07):
Yeah.
KateVitela (11:07):
Did you were you doing some modeling at some
point too?
Yeah, and that is actually partof my recovery story.
When I got sober, I think I waslike two or three years sober,
I got connected with the editorof the sober curator magazine.
Her name's Elise Bryson.
She lives in the Seattle areanear me.
And I wanted to contribute, butI didn't know, you know, what I
(11:31):
what area I would specializein.
Like I never found myselfparticularly artsy.
And I, you know, I wasn't awriter, I wasn't a photographer.
But one area I I knew a lotabout and I loved was fashion.
So I started blogging a fashioncolumn for the sober curator
called Walk Your Talk andcontributing just random images
(11:54):
of me, clothes that I sourcedfrom the goodwill or the real,
real, or various places.
And I remembered that time,like kind of cataloging my early
recovery alongside of what Iwas wearing.
And it was the premise was youknow, you're changing on the
outside, you're changing on theinside.
(12:15):
And through that connection, Igot, uh, let's see, gosh,
following the breadcrumbs, I metAlexandra Nyman, who is the
creative director of the BreakFree Foundation.
She runs a fashion show in NewYork, dedicated to mental health
and addiction.
I cast for that and end upwalking in New York Fashion Week
(12:36):
for her, for that cause, whichthen kind of prompted me to do
local castings in the Seattleand Portland area.
Then I started doing some localrunway and modeling, and uh it
just kind of became its itswhole own thing.
And I and I chalked that up toa year or two of adventures in
(12:57):
early sobriety.
I had so much fun doing it.
I don't do it anymore simplybecause it's not the end goal
for me.
It was just a fun thing.
It, you know, it's a lot ofwork and a lot of time and
energy that I don't have at thispoint in my life as a
46-year-old woman.
MicheleFolan (13:14):
Well, yeah.
And you've got a lot of ironsin the fire right now.
Yes.
And I think, as you say, it itthere's a bigger plan here for
you, for sure.
You named your podcast RewiredSober.
And I think that plays on yourapproach to this.
Can you explain why you youcalled it Rewired Sober?
KateVitela (13:38):
Yeah.
It actually started out beingcalled You've Been Selected.
And so there's several episodesrecorded where you'll hear me
say that if you ever listen toit.
And there's there's a lot ofmarketing around you've been
selected.
And that name came from thenurse monitoring program I was
in.
Every day I was, quote,selected to do a random UA,
those red letters would pop upon the screen.
(14:00):
And as time went on, I realizedwhat I really love, appreciate,
admire.
I can't even like what reallylights me up about recovery is
the neuroplasticity componentand the hope around the our
brain's ability to reorganizeitself, you know, around the
(14:21):
concept that we can completelyheal.
Because that that was foreignto me in early recovery.
I was fed the messaging thatyou will be one drink away from
being a raging alcoholic therest of your life.
You'll sit in church basements,you'll always have a quote
disease, you'll always bebroken.
And although that had its placein my recovery in terms of
(14:45):
surrendering in the beginning,it left me at about two and a
half years sober, feeling kindof hopeless.
Like, wow, this is forever.
Uh P.S.
This sucks.
You know, you want to know thetruth?
I don't want to call myself analcoholic forever.
I don't want to sit in churchbasements and read the same book
(15:07):
forever.
When I started researchingaddiction science, then I
realized, oh, we change.
Our brains reorganize, we formnew neural networks, new
pathways.
We we can completely change ashuman beings.
And that is so much more of ahopeful message than you will
(15:28):
forever be an alcoholic with adisease.
And and I also came to learn Idon't have a disease.
My brain was dis-ased.
My brain was in a state and afrequency that was dis-ased at
the time.
And through, you know, changingin habits and a myriad of other
(15:49):
factors over time, uh, Ibelieve that I have completely
rewired.
I mean, every cell in your bodychanges every seven years,
right?
You become a new human being.
So yeah, it just, and I didn'twant sobriety to feel like it
was based on willpower, it wasbased on white knuckling, it was
(16:09):
based on shame, any of that.
You know, I wanted it to behopeful.
MicheleFolan (16:14):
Yeah.
You know, I just recorded apodcast about manifestation.
And I see there's someparallels here with how we can
manifest things, we can believesomething and almost make it
happen, even though it may notbe your true reality.
But maybe in a sense, this iskind of the same thing where you
(16:37):
can through positive talk and Iguess manifestation, you can
start to recover, you know, makemake that pathway happen in
your brain.
Does that make sense?
Absolutely does.
KateVitela (16:51):
And there is a component of that.
Our thoughts create ourreality, right?
So and I just um did a trainingmodule on this mindset going
into recovery is huge.
If you tell yourself this isgonna suck and it's gonna go
forever and be horrible and I'mnot gonna have any fun, you
know, your brain is you're gonnalook for evidence to prove that
(17:11):
statement to be true.
But if you're willing to staycurious about what's ahead, and
if you can envision yourself ayear or two down the road,
living sober, free, healthy,feeling good, sleeping good,
eating good, having fun,enjoying your life.
If you can envision that, it'seasier to get there.
(17:32):
So, yeah, there is an elementof manifesting in this.
There's an element, there's abig mindset component here.
MicheleFolan (17:39):
Kate, we're gonna take a quick break and we come
back.
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Okay, we are back.
So, what you're kind of tellingme is that it's important to
create these new pathwaysinstead of trying to eliminate
old ones, correct?
KateVitela (18:47):
Yeah, it's kind of like if you had a bridge on the
freeway and you, you know, youdestroyed it, you took a you
know, bulldozer to it, thenyou'd have nowhere to go.
So you you have to build a new,more efficient bridge.
So you you build new habitstructures, new thought loops,
(19:08):
new routines.
You know, you you rebuild yourmindset and it it all comes
together in in the concept ofneuroplasticity.
People throw around the phraseneurons that fire together, wire
together.
Well, what does that even mean,right?
What does that actually meanfor your brain?
(19:30):
So your brain is made up ofneurons, right?
Little teeny tiny cells thatare sending chemical and
electrical signals.
And when you partner those,when you when two activate at
the same time, so you have athought that leads to a feeling
that leads to a behavior.
So thought being, oh, I've hada horrible day.
(19:51):
I just, you know, my routine isalways that I go home and take
my shoes off and cook dinner anddrink wine.
Okay, there's your thoughtthere.
Your feeling is, oh, I'mcraving a glass of wine.
There's some cold Chardonnay inthe fridge.
Okay, you pour that, you know,behavior, you drank, you got
some temporary relief.
And then, you know, whateverhappens after that, I'm sorry.
(20:11):
I'm, you know, I've been there.
But so there's a little patternright there.
So all those little neuralnetworks, they kind of fire and
wire together.
So it becomes this well-wornpath.
So automatically when you comehome, your brain's like, oh, I
know what to do.
You know, this little tinyalgorithm, it knows exactly
where to go.
(20:31):
And you find yourself almost onautopilot, reaching for that,
reaching, reaching.
And it it takes some likepause, you know, pattern
interrupt recognition, andreally examining, oh, wow, this
is what I'm doing.
And you can you can start newpatterns, you can blaze a new
trail, you know, if if thatmakes sense in that, you know,
(20:55):
the first component ofneuroplasticity is that that
those neurons firing and wiringtogether, you know, we can
change that.
We can we can chart a newcourse.
MicheleFolan (21:06):
So this is where I think a lot of women get stuck.
It's the cooking dinner, likeyou said, pouring the glass of
wine, because that that's kindof the ritual, the habit that we
we get into.
And the other thing, Kate, thatI believe a lot of women think
(21:26):
that's my last joy in life is myevening glass of wine, right?
KateVitela (21:32):
I've heard that.
MicheleFolan (21:34):
You know, it it's and that's very real because I
hear this from clients when Isay, Hey, how about for the next
six weeks we dial that back?
And I know for some of them itfeels like I am taking away
something, their their joy,their their pleasure, their
reward.
Because I think for a lot ofpeople it's just the reward
(21:55):
after a long day.
So, how do we get ourselves outof that?
Because it is such a habit.
KateVitela (22:04):
Yeah.
I've heard that so many times.
I mean, clients come to me,this is the last candy in my
dish, you know.
I hate to give this up.
And I understand, I was there,you know, wine was my best
friend.
But I think you have to stepback.
You have to step back andthink, okay, it's not about the
wine, it's about what the winerepresents.
(22:26):
And you said it right there.
It's a reward, it's a relief.
It represents a moment ofexhale.
And for a lot of women inparticular, this is why I love
coaching women, it's aboutputting a final buffer between
meeting everybody else's needsand your own.
(22:48):
Right?
It's that final place of like,oh no, this is me time.
I have met everyone's needs alldamn day long.
The dog, the kids, the husband,the house, the career, running
around doing everything foreveryone.
And this is that rebellious actin your mind, right, that says,
oh no, this one is for me.
(23:09):
The little tiny bit of like,this is mine, right?
And so if we can step back fromthat and recognize, oh, well,
maybe there's other things inour life we're needing besides
that glass of wine.
Maybe we need boundaries, maybewe need communication tools
(23:29):
with our family that says, pickup your own shit.
I am not your maid.
Maybe we need to quit being adoormat, being so codependent,
people pleasing, fawning, youknow.
Or maybe it's not about that atall.
Maybe it's about finding aresting place that you don't
have to recover from.
Because we we think wine is ourexhale and our rest, but then
(23:52):
we have to recover from that.
Yeah.
And most people do that becausethey don't know there's a
better way out there, they don'tknow there's a better life.
I was one of them.
I had, you know, 17 years as anRN.
I had no concept that there wasa better way to wind down.
No one ever taught me.
So I absolutely get it.
MicheleFolan (24:13):
Yeah, and we talk a lot on this podcast about
self-care.
And self-care can mean a lot ofdifferent things.
Maybe it is that time you takefor yourself.
You're like, okay, everybody,I'm taking 20 minutes.
Do not come find me, do notbother me.
And maybe that's just so youcan take a quick walk around the
(24:35):
block, or you want to go sit inyour favorite chair, or
whatever the case might be.
Does it have to be a glass ofwine?
Can it be something else?
And for me, it it is that thatwalk after dinner, or and maybe
and maybe I go with my husbandand the dogs, but those are my
little moments where I get to dosomething for myself during the
(24:58):
day.
I want to ask you a question.
This just popped in my head.
What's your feeling aboutmocktails?
KateVitela (25:06):
You know, it's very individualized.
I have some clients that switchimmediately to mocktails and it
really helps them get throughearly sobriety and they love the
switch.
It gives them a goodreplacement.
They don't feel like they'remissing out.
And then I have some peoplethat mocktails are triggering.
You know, they remind you ofthe smell, the feeling, the
(25:28):
whole representation ofdrinking.
So I think it's veryindividualized.
You know, only you know if it'striggering or not.
Personally, for me, I didn't dothe mocktail thing in early
sobriety because it wastriggering.
I didn't want to drink a fakebeer or a fake glass of wine
because I was too, I was workingtoo hard to not do the real
(25:49):
thing.
I didn't want to tastesomething that, you know, I
didn't want to drink fermentedgrapes.
I I wanted, you know, I wantedthe real thing.
So it I think it's verynuanced.
But you know, some clients Iwork with, it does, it does well
for them.
MicheleFolan (26:05):
So for myself, I will say, I think some of that
wine craving at like while I wascooking dinner, I think I was
craving the sugar more thananything.
That it there was that, okay,it's dinner time, I'm kind of
hungry.
And so what I have found isdoing a mocktail kind of cuts
(26:28):
that edge, and then I'm I'mgood.
I'm good for the night.
So I was just kind of curiousbecause I know some people have
said that it can be it can betriggering.
And from somebody that's beenthrough sobriety, I just wanted
to know what you thought aboutthat.
KateVitela (26:42):
Yeah, I think you're spot on about the sugar
component, though.
Early sobriety, you know,there's sugar cravings, and so
you can get a nice little sugarfix from a mocktail.
You can also eat a handful ofcandy if you need to.
You know, low blood sugar is ahuge reason, is a huge trigger
for cravings.
(27:03):
So, you know, they say hungry,angry, lonely, or tired, right?
And check yourself, you know.
I like to say your craving is asmoke signal.
It's a messenger for what yourbrain and body need.
And if you're able to pause andkind of check yourself a little
bit and you feel that weird,low blood sugary, hangry
(27:24):
feeling, eat some sugar, youknow, and then of course eat
some protein and drink somewater and do the right things.
But in the beginning, whenyou're just getting off of
alcohol, go for the sugar, man.
I don't even care.
I tell clients, you have onejob, and that is to not drink
alcohol.
Like we'll tackle the otherstuff incrementally.
In the beginning, when you'reforming a new habit and maybe
(27:48):
it's gonna take a few months, anew routine, eat all the damn
sugar you want.
I don't even care.
We're, you know, we're savingour own lives here.
Yeah.
MicheleFolan (27:55):
You know, and there was a there was a time
when I'd be at a restaurant, andI know my friends do this too,
where you're like, I don't wantdessert, but I will have another
glass of wine.
So we would trade one for theother.
And many, many women insobriety, or when they start
cutting back on alcohol, they'relike, Why am I why aren't I
(28:16):
losing weight?
And many times it's becauseyou're you're balancing the
cravings with eating probablymore carbohydrate.
And that's a natural thing todo.
You do eventually, though, yourbody responds in kind with
weight loss.
And this is just this is my thethat's the vanity perspective
of this is that your body losesa lot of that inflammation that
(28:40):
it's been carrying, particularlyin your face.
I don't think people realizethe the difference in your glow
when you do refrain fromalcohol.
So that's the one thing.
How often do you get into, youknow, related to seven, at least
seven different cancers, thelong-term health ramifications.
(29:03):
Do you coach your your clientsthrough that?
KateVitela (29:05):
You know, I don't.
I actually don't because here'sthe thing people know, right?
It's not about information,it's about transformation.
We know what the data's outthere.
It's related to seven differentcancers, it will do all these
bad things.
Ever we know we don't we don'tneed to be beat over the head
with more information becausepeople don't change from that.
(29:27):
What they change from isintrospection and you know,
examining and a compassionatespace.
We all know it's acarcinogenic, it's not good for
you, but I think you you gottadig deeper than that.
I I don't I don't go on and onand on about all the shameful,
harmful effects of alcohol.
(29:47):
That that doesn't seem to behelpful.
But what I will say is thereare times when I will go to
something, okay, let's talkabout what's meaningful for you.
You've mentioned that it'svanity and the weight loss.
Okay, so vanity is important.
I don't care if you get soberfor vanity.
That's that's a good enoughreason for me.
(30:09):
Dude, I mean, my face was sopuffy and bloated when I first
got sober.
I looked like the hamburglar.
I mean, it was vanity was apart of it.
But I think you mentionedsomething that I and I and I
hear this a lot and I don't knowin the comparison game.
There's actually a, I thinkit's a reel or a meme or some
(30:30):
kind of video going around theinternet where a guy compares,
okay, you could have 500calories or however many
calories, I think it's 500calories in a thing of
McDonald's French fries, or youcould have like three or four
glasses of Chardonnay for thatmany calories.
And it's like, oh duh, I'mgonna pick the Chardonnay.
No, no, no.
It's not about the calories.
(30:51):
People think, oh, there's, youknow, 100 calories in a glass of
Chardonnay, and there's ahundred calories in this little
tiny slice of cake.
Which one do I choose?
It's not about the calories,it's the cascade of events that
happen when you drink thatprevents you from weight loss.
It's not a swap.
One glass of wine.
(31:11):
I mean, one glass, it's notabout the calories.
You are talking about hijackingyour reward centers.
You are talking about hijackingyour sleep.
One glass affects REM sleep,your circadian rhythm affects
your hormones.
You know, and when we talkabout hormones, then we
immediately go into weight losshormones, you know, gremlin.
(31:35):
I call it gremlin.
Well, your hunger hormonesincrease, your leptin decreases,
your satiation.
So, I mean, it's a cascade ofthings.
And let's stop talking aboutthe calories and start talking
about, you know, weight loss isa is an entirely systemic
process, mind, body, soul, youknow, it's it's it's more than
(31:56):
just what goes in our mouth.
And so those are areas where Ican dive in with information
that resonates, that transformsversus shames people.
MicheleFolan (32:06):
You know, back to your sleep comment.
I did I did my own littleexperiment because I have people
tell me all the time, oh, whenI drink, I just my hit hits the
pillow, I sleep like a baby.
I'm like, oh, you think so,huh?
I did my own experiment.
So had bourbon, had a bourbonwith my husband one night.
Sleep score, like 62.
(32:29):
He was gone for 10 days and Ididn't drink anything.
My sleep scores were 91, 94,89.
Now, I would never know thatother than the fact that I wore
a sleep tracker, but it isabsolutely one drink can set you
off on a cascade of poor sleep.
(32:51):
And when we get poor sleep, wemake poor choices the next day
about food.
We tend to gravitate towardmore carbohydrate.
It's just, I think it's thesetypes of pieces of data that
really kind of set the stage forreally, what is this doing for
(33:12):
me?
Right.
And and Kate and I have talkedabout this because I when I was
a guest on her podcast, I stilldo have an occasional drink.
But I even now look at that onedrink and say, uh, do I really
want that?
Is that what's that gonna dofor me tomorrow?
How am I gonna sleep tonight?
And oftentimes it's I don't, Iguess what I want to say, it's
(33:36):
losing its appeal altogether.
And the other thing I wanted totalk about, Kate, is
moderation, because I think youand I have a kind of different
perspective on this.
This would probably be the onlyplace where I think you and I
may have a different thoughtprocess.
Can you share with thelisteners what you what your
philosophy is on moderation anddoes it have a place?
KateVitela (34:00):
Well, you know, I'm not the alcohol police, right?
Like I'm not the soberIlluminati.
I don't care if people drink.
Like, there might be people whocan there are people who can
moderate.
And if you are one of them whocan truly moderate your alcohol,
good on you.
You go with your bad moderationself.
(34:20):
That's completelyindividualized.
You know, I feel like so muchof this journey is nuanced and
individualized.
You know, if you've seen oneperson's recovery, you've seen
one person's recovery.
That's my philosophy.
Personally, I've never seenmoderation work with a person
who is physically,physiologically, mentally
(34:41):
addicted.
You will end up in a loop ofmental gymnastics obsessing over
alcohol, even if it's obsessingover the moderation.
Of course, I could nevermoderate.
Moderating was the holy grail.
It was the elusive thing in thesky where if I could just
moderate.
And that myth of normal, itkept me stuck for another five
(35:06):
years.
I tried watering down the wine,I tried water in between the
wine, I tried food, I triedhaving my partner limit my
drinks, only drinking on theweekends.
I mean, the amount of time andenergy I spent moderating, I
wish I could have those yearsback, trying to moderate, I
should say.
But that's me.
Now, there might be people outthere, and there are people out
(35:30):
there who can have one drinkhere and there at a wedding, at
an event, you know, on aweekend, and and then they can
take it or leave it for weeks orat a time or or whatever.
That's that's a totallydifferent story.
I mean, if if there's someonewho wants to live like that and
it doesn't affect you and you'renot obsessing, go ahead.
(35:54):
It's fine.
It's your choice, you know.
But I think the funny thingabout the word moderation is if
you think of alcohol in its trueform of what it is, ethanol and
poison, then moderation ismicrodosing poison.
And is that really your endgoal in life?
(36:16):
Right.
That's I that's a personaldecision.
MicheleFolan (36:20):
And that's where I am.
That's where my that's where mysensibilities kick in.
I'm like, what?
You know, okay, yeah, sure.
I can have, I don't reallydrink wine anymore, but I could
do the the cocktail, right?
Because it's fun and festive,but could I just do the mocktail
and be better off?
(36:40):
And so this is where I am in myjourney with all of this.
And so my my point in bringingthis up is I have listeners
right now that are in my shoes.
I also have listeners who arestruggling with this, and then
there's some kind of in betweenwhere they're they want to cut
back and they know they should,and moderation may be a great
(37:04):
place for them to start, youknow.
So, like I said, I kind of cameto where I am on my own, but I
do know that there are peopleout there that just shouldn't
drink at all because there's nothe the on-off switch is is
broken.
KateVitela (37:19):
And I personally feel like the more you try to
moderate and fail, the more youjust crush your self-trust, your
personal sense of agency, youknow, your self-esteem, it just
demolishes you over time.
It's such a shameful cycle whenyou're trying to moderate and
failing.
So I would caution that.
MicheleFolan (37:40):
Yeah.
KateVitela (37:41):
You know, for people, if you're trying to
moderate and it's leading you tofail and more shame and you're
stuck in that loop, you know,that's I I don't want to see
anybody go through that becauseI went through it and it was
horrific.
Now, for you, let's say in yourparticular situation, I mean,
we're coach to coach here, and Igotta ask you the question,
yeah.
(38:01):
What are you making it meanthat you can moderate?
Because you said maybe I justhave a mock tail instead.
So what is that?
What is that moderation, thatone glass here and there, what
does that mean to you?
Um, you know, I mean, that's agreat question.
MicheleFolan (38:17):
I think it's just telling myself that I I can
still do this, but I I don'thave it, it's not a problem for
me.
So I mean, I never had, I neverhad a rock bottom moment.
I never had but but there weretimes, you know, and I shared
this with you during COVID whereI would almost polish off a
(38:37):
whole bottle of wine, but Iwouldn't drink the whole thing
just because I didn't want tosay I finished the whole bottle
because we we were doing nothingbut sitting at home watching
Netflix.
That was my turning point was Idon't like feeling this way the
next day.
This is gross.
I don't have energy, I don'tfeel motivated.
I don't like this.
This is yuck.
(38:57):
And going into midlife andmenopause, my body couldn't
handle that any longer.
And that, you know, we we knowthat.
And um, and I want better formyself.
I want better for my healthbecause I want to live to be in
my 90s.
KateVitela (39:10):
So it sounds like for you to have that one glass
every now and then, it'sdifferent.
What you're telling yourself isthat but the fact that you can
moderate is differentiating youfrom people that can't.
And it's also reminding youthat you don't have a problem,
(39:31):
that you're you're sort ofothering in a sense.
Like you're you can moderatebecause you're not like those
other people.
Although you see no reason whyyou're having this glass of
wine, like no health benefits.
No, no, right.
MicheleFolan (39:47):
I mean, I I think I think you're spot on.
I mean, I didn't intend forthis to become a coaching
session, but I think this isgood for other people to hear.
Kate's laughing.
But it doesn't, this doesn'tbother me at all because I've
been very forthright with mylisteners about alcohol.
And I I continue to have thistopic come up because I see so
(40:11):
much out there being at a storeand seeing, you know, mommy back
to school time.
And it was a huge wine display.
But that kind of stuff I thinkis toxic because we're we're
normalizing that.
And worse yet, our kids seethat.
But I I don't I don't want kidsto, you know, wonder, you know,
(40:35):
what's in mom's Yeti in her gocup, right?
I mean, that's that's kind ofuh that that just doesn't feel
good to me.
So and then and we know thatnow I think it's 54% of adults
say that they're not drinking.
So the pendulum seems to beswinging, but I don't know if
(40:57):
that is for midlife women.
I don't know if we'renecessarily getting the message.
KateVitela (41:03):
You know, I can't I can't speak to that statistic.
I don't know as if it's midlifewomen either.
I think and and here's where Iwant to empathize with you in in
holding on to that one glass ofwine is that there's so much
more nuance to being in midlife.
(41:24):
And especially being a woman,you know, we kind of want to
hold on to the little bit ofpower we have, we want to hold
on to the choices that we have,the the feeling of control that
we have.
And I think that is a huge partof womaning and wifing and
(41:46):
momming and lifing.
And I absolutely understandthat.
As a woman who did not want togive it up, you know, I look
back at myself and it's like,God, you know, everybody always
told me what to do, where to go,how to be.
I was always dancing around tomeet other people's
expectations.
I just wanted something for me.
(42:08):
And I wanted to rebel a littlebit.
Because, you know, as a womanin this world, I don't have a
lot of control or powersometimes.
You know, the patriarchy has atendency to kick my ass
sometimes.
And I get that.
Absolutely.
And so if we if we can speak tothat from a sense of like,
(42:28):
fuck, we get it.
We get it.
Let's sit in circle as womentogether and talk about how do
we take our power back?
Because it's not with what'snot with wine.
MicheleFolan (42:40):
No, it's not.
And I being on this healthjourney has been probably the
best thing that I've done formyself, in which I try to take
women along with me on this ridebecause it has opened my eyes
to not just my overall healthand longevity, but that
(43:01):
self-care, prioritize me.
I've done this for everybodyelse for all these years.
This is my time.
You know, I used to not lovegoing to the gym.
Now I love going to the gymbecause I'm doing this for me.
It's because I am I'm makingmyself a priority.
And so if that means for you,making yourself a priority is
(43:25):
reassessing your relationshipwith alcohol, food, whatever
that is, do it because this isthe time.
This is the time to have thatconversation with yourself.
KateVitela (43:37):
So you had said on on my podcast, I just listened
to it the other day, and yousaid some really empowering
stuff about what it means to bein midlife and you know, taking
your power back as a woman andand being so embodied with the
fact that in your midlife is isa reinvention and it's a it's a
(43:57):
whole new time and a whole newchapter.
And what that brought about forme was that midlife is kind of
like the best time to quitdrinking.
Because as a as a woman, asanyone in midlife, like we've
kind of been there, done that,right?
We have a little bit moremotivation, a little bit more
sense of urgency to change.
And we already know whatdoesn't work for us.
(44:21):
So, I mean, I coach midlifewomen into stopping drinking and
staying sober, particularlybecause midlife is the best
time.
I mean, obviously, neverimbibing in the first place.
Is that realistic?
Well, maybe not, not unless youlive in an Amish community,
okay?
Let's be realistic.
But I love coaching womenaround the midlife because so
(44:45):
much is changing.
And the conversation is sodifferent around taking your
power back.
What can be yours that isn'tharmful?
The gym routine, a new creativeroutine, you know, interest in
a new career or a new path andvolunteering.
You know, this is the time ofreinvention.
(45:05):
I love that.
MicheleFolan (45:06):
And speaking of which, when you work with
clients, what does that looklike?
What kind of program do youhave set up?
KateVitela (45:13):
Yeah, in fact, just in the next couple of weeks, I'm
opening uh a group coachingcontainer.
And I believe I'll be movinginto group coaching um only
going forward.
I was doing just one-on-onesessions with people.
We would meet weekly for likean hour on Zoom, but there's
(45:33):
only one of me, right?
And there's only so many peopleI can meet with.
And so we're we'retransitioning over to a group
model, still meeting weekly liveas a group, and then there'll
be some educational materials.
But what I've found over timeis so much of what speeds up the
(45:53):
process, the benefits, theenjoyment of recovery is the
relational safety, the bondingwith other women, you know, sort
of co-regulating our nervoussystem together.
And I, you know, groups reallyare super helpful that way.
So so in in about two weeks,I'll be opening uh just for
(46:17):
group sessions.
MicheleFolan (46:18):
Oh, I think that's great.
I think community is essentialfor this process.
I think you're smart to dothat.
Um, it lets people know I'm notalone.
They feel that they've got thisadditional little support
lifeline.
It's uh I think that's reallygreat on your part to pursue
(46:41):
that.
KateVitela (46:41):
That's awesome.
Well, and it's also born out ofa need, right?
Like there's a lot of groupsthat I see out there, and I'm
part of them, where they'resupport groups.
You go, you share, and then youzip it.
And you don't really get a lotof guidance because the people
leading the groups are justhosts, they're just
facilitators, they're justholding space.
So it's one woman after theother, kind of dumping their
(47:04):
problems next, dump next.
And and we we leave and I thinkwithout a lot of direction.
And so I wanted a place where,you know, you come to me with a
win and a challenge, and we'lltogether form an action step
step, and I'll live coach youwith other people so that it
(47:24):
it's more purposeful, right?
And you're leaving with more ofum of an intention setting
versus just coming to dump yourdump your problems and leave.
Yeah, but but I think they'rethat that structure's good
though.
Uh yeah, both are both arenecessary.
MicheleFolan (47:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I no, I think that would bevital.
This is a personal question foryou.
You mentioned I I foundsomething out there.
You you talk a little bit aboutdisordered eating.
Do you think there wereparallels with the disordered
eating and your addiction withalcohol?
KateVitela (48:00):
Absolutely there, yeah, absolutely.
Uh, I commonly talk about aterm uh drunkorexia, restricting
calories that you would reserveto, you know, spend on alcohol,
just like we were talkingabout, because you think it's a
direct caloric exchange.
And I went through a period ofmy life when I first started
(48:22):
restricting, and then I starteddrinking because my blood sugar
was low and I was hungry.
So it went from restricting,heavy drinking, to then binge
eating, bulimia, and it was thisnasty cycle.
And for so many women, there'sa correlation.
(48:43):
It's something like one in fivestruggle with both
co-occurring, um, you know,disordered eating and substance
use.
You know, and so, yes, very,very common.
There's overlapping issues withblood sugar, with all the
things, right?
Identity, burnout, fatigue,self-esteem, you know, your
(49:04):
wiring, all of it.
And it it took me a while tostep back from all of it and
realize before I starteddrinking, like food was maybe my
first addiction.
MicheleFolan (49:17):
I appreciate you addressing this because this is
not something that we havecovered before, but it it's good
for women to see that therecan't be a correlation there
with food and and alcohol.
Kate, what is one of yourpersonal core pillars of
self-care that you nevercompromise on?
KateVitela (49:39):
I have I have quite a bit because I I live in a
routine and I do not compromisemy routine.
But I'm gonna have to saysleep.
That is a hundred percent ofthe time something that I is is
super important to me.
I maintain that no matter what.
A night of quote partying forme is staying up till 10, 11
(50:01):
o'clock, having too many dietcokes, you know, maybe getting a
little bit of restless sleepbecause I had too much caffeine.
But sleep is my number one.
In fact, part of the reason Ibegan drinking in the first
place was I was a horribleinsomniac.
And I thought, you know, youdrink and then you just go right
to sleep.
You pass out.
(50:22):
And so it started for me likedrinking to sleep.
And um, once I learned the way,you know, sleep hygiene, and I
was able to get good sleep, Igot on the right sleeping
medication, I did all the rightthings, and I can get a restful
night's sleep.
Oh my God, game changer.
MicheleFolan (50:40):
Yeah, it is the foundation of everything, isn't
it?
Yeah.
Sleep, good sleep, because itit really does set you up for
success the next day.
I I swear by it.
I love it.
Kate Vitella, where canlisteners find you and connect
with your work and tune intoRewired Sober?
KateVitela (51:00):
Yeah, so Rewired Sober is my handle name for all
the socials Instagram, Facebook,TikTok.
Yes, I'm on TikTok.
I'm so proud of myself.
46-year-old woman who figuredout how to use TikTok like a
week ago.
Seriously.
Um yeah, my and my podcast alsocalled Rewired Sober.
It streams anywhere you listen.
(51:22):
Apple, you know, Spotify, anyof the podcasts, it's it's it's
anywhere.
So um, and then there'll belinks to jump in to group
coaching if you want to.
MicheleFolan (51:33):
Okay.
All right, everybody, make anote of that.
Follow Kate.
She is very inspirational.
You'll you'll love herInstagram and check out her
podcast, Rewired Sober.
Even if you don't think youhave an issue with alcohol, you
might be very intrigued by theguests that she has on the show,
(51:56):
including me.
I forgot.
I'm I was on her show.
It's you! Yeah.
So um, thank you for being heretoday, Kate.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review thepodcast where you listen.
And if you'd like to join theAsking for a Friend community,
click on the link in the shownotes to sign up for my weekly
(52:18):
newsletter where I share midlifewellness and fitness tips,
insights, my favorite finds, andrecipes.
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